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Thursday, October 26, 2006
Hugh Hewitt :: Townhall.com Columnist
Andrew Sullivan and our times
by Hugh Hewitt
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Andrew Sullivan may be the biggest wasted talent in all of the English speaking world. He once was a brilliant writer, and learned in many areas. His blog was at one point a must read. His "Virtually Normal" from a decade ago earned him enormous respect from readers of all political opinions, and his time as editor of The New Republic was among that magazine's finest runs.

Now Sullivan has a new book out, The Conservative Soul, and it is a mess. Skip the small but telling errors such as Sullivan's declaration that Thomas Jefferson was a Christian or that Disraeli urged universal suffrage on the Brits.

Overlook his asides that put Mohammed and Einstein on an equal with Christ and Socrates when it comes to a self-purging of bias or other similar sins.

Ignore the insult to the readers of zero footnotes in the book or even asides that might allow for context to inform Sullivan's quotes.

Skip over his disfiguring of Roman Catholic teaching in an attempt to leave him, and not the Magisterium, in charge of the Catechism.

Instead, on this the day after another judicial diktat as to marriage --this time in New Jersey--focus on Sullivan's particular, and the left's general, refusal to buy into the Constitution.

As a constitutional majoritarian, I am obliged to acknowledge that those laws passed by a state legislature and signed by a governor which do not conflict with the guarantees of the federal Constitution are in fact the law of the state from which they issue.

Thus any genuine conservative will have to agree that if a state legislature passes a law which a governor signs that proclaims marriage to be open to two people of the same sex, then same-sex marriage will have arrived, legitimately, in the land.

The day may come when such a law is passed and signed, and on that day --if no amendment to the U.S. Constitution has passed prohibiting such a law-- I will acknowledge that gay marriage is legitimate.

But it has not happened yet, and the acts of the New Jersey Supreme Court, and before it the highest courts in Massachusetts and Vermont, are mere legalistic, non-violent coups, as disreputable as the Dred Scott decision and Plessy v. Ferguson. The will of a handful of judicial radicals has replaced that of elected representatives of the people in a tiny number of states, and such usurpations are very ominous indeed.

For what the majority of unelected judges declare in one area, they can undeclare in another. What radical judges give, they can take away. And more besides.

It was on this ground that I especially hoped to debate Sullivan when he appeared for eight segments on my radio show on Wednesday. (The audio will be posted here. The transcript here. And the audio of the brilliant Lileks' parody here ) Sullivan's book is an incoherent gambol on this point, praising as it does the built-in constitutional suspicion of radical innovation, but silent on the radicals-in-robes purporting to read into the various Equal Protection Clauses of the states' constitutions the intent of framers to command marriage to be open to same-sex couples.

Throughout the interview, Sullivan did not want to discuss his book. He wanted to engage in histrionics. Most authors do not run into hosts who have actually read the book in question. I did. Andrew strived mightily to make the subject of our interview anything but his book. Listen. You'll understand why. (One summary of the exchange is here.)

Sullivan wants to be known as a constitutional conservative, but such a pose cannot be squared with the imposition of same-sex marriage by state courts. Thus his pretense to be a conservative is easily discredited.

Sullivan is in fact a radical, like Pelosi and Reid and the rest of the left, who care only for the results they demand, not the process by which they obtain them. Adherence to the rule of law defines a conservative. Sullivan refuses to condemn judicial law-making and rejects constitutional majorities when it comes to issues such as same-sex marriage and the treatment and trial of prisoners.

Sullivan wants very badly to be described as a conservative, but he is no more a conservative than I am a Russian.

Sullivan is, simply put, a majority of one. And that majority of one hates George Bush.

For the left, Bush has become a sort of uber-bogeyman --a dictator, a Hitler or worse.

That Bush complied with Hamdan -- terrible decision of a 5-3 court-- and submitted a draft law, negotiated its particulars, and signed it into law leaves Sullivan and the left at a loss, and not just for words, but for coherence. Bush submitted to the constitutional order. They refuse to do the same.

The left hates Bush for a variety of reasons, chief among them that it is easy in this age when nothing is easy. It is safe to scream "torture" in an era when threats that boggle the mind are in fact pressing. There is no group less threatening to inveigh against than American Christians. Attack American Christians and they pray for you. My e-mail box is full of concern for Andrew, and they are right to pray for someone so confounded by the Gospels.

In the meantime, though, the extremists abroad plot to kill us in great numbers, and the radicals at home move to undermine a free people's confidence in the idea of a nation of laws. Elections loom that offer a stark choice between a party committed to victory and a party committed to retreat and a policy of appeasement.

Because there is doubt about the results of so stark a choice, there has to be doubt about the possibility that a nation conceived as ours was as a democratic republic can survive. That Andrew Sullivan is read at all is a symptom of a fundamentally unserious country in a deadly serious age. A nice and well read fellow, yes; but serious? No. He's a Pelosi, a Reid, a Leahy.

Our enemies are not such folk.

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About The Author

Hugh Hewitt is host of a nationally syndicated radio talk show. Hugh Hewitt's new book is The War On The West.

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Re: jilted lover
Phylo out. Yes you really are out...way way way out there just like Sullivan.

Dear Hugh
I couldn't agree more! Good article and interview. Keep it up!

I hate to agree with Phylo, but...
He's definitely got Hugh's number on this one. I wish I had heard the whole interview. Hugh is reacting like he's mad about getting spanked in public.

For Mountain Rose
If I ever want to have my behind kissed, I'll put on an elephant mask and know just where to come.

And,
the reason this site is so often a bore is that it is so often predictable - anybody who disagrees or says something that isn't comfortable to right-wing head-slaves is labelled as a liar, stupid, anti-American, treasonous, or a devil-puppet. Why is it that so many of you can never talk about ideas, you have to attack the person who expresses them?

Phylo
I didn't mean you, of course.

Rose, you crack me up!
Good riposte.

BTW, all of you screaming libs, notice that Hewitt has openly stated his support for this issue as properly an individual one for the states; with which I agree. What's got your panties so much in a bunch? The fact that some poobah on the bench has taken on the mantle of emperor and imposed his will upon the peole in spite of the fact that they've spoken through the electoral and/or legislative process, and Hewitt's called them on it?

Better watch out what you wish for, because that's a Damoclean sword.

Phylo on Andrew (no relation) Sullivan
Phylo,
your rant on GOPS and the rule of law falls flat on any ear that remembers Al Gore's White House fund raising calls, Al and the Rich Buddist Monks, Al, Bill and the campaign contributions from the Chi-commie Army, Bill and the gun running drug dealer, Bill's druged out staff who couldn't pass security, Bill and perjury and obstruction of justice, Janet Renal and Waco, Janet Renal and Elian Gonzales, "see no evil" Janet Renal and "nothing naughty going on here",good ole "I don't know who hired me" Craig Livingston and the illegal FBI files that just keep on giving, secret conclaves to hijack one quarter of the US economy and the Health Care system, Hillary and the "oh is THAT what that box was" billing records, The White House Post Office Scandal, big bills in the fridge--the list is endless--hearing a Commiequeerbigocrap dis any conservative for hanky-panky is like the
pot calling the kettle "black."

the big mick

Phylo
What exactly do WMDs have to do with judicial activism and preemption, or Suulivan's book and radio appearance? Do you have an attention disorder? By the time you reached the blank spot where you can type a comment, you'd forgotten what the topic was?

There are medications for that, you know.

It's also interesting that once WMDs truly are found -- the Sarin arty shells were what was used to wipe out many Kurds -- you guys so blithely dismiss them as if that kind of thing comes with a "use by" date or something.

Shall we dispose of them in your back yard, as they're so harmless?

lokie
You do realize that you used a letter from the President's Attorney General which interpreted the law as the reason that the President was in fact within the rule of law, no? Is it possible that a letter written by the Administration just might reflect the Administration's views ...

Big Mick

Are you honestly saying that failures from the Republicans don't matter because Dems did it first?

As to Hewitt's column: I think he has forgotten what a conservative actually believes. Clearly most of the commentators on Townhall have also done that. Having read the columns and comments for some time now, I can say with confidence that a conservative is anyone who agrees with exactly what the Bush Adminstration is doing. (never mind prescription drugs, the feds intrusion on education, etc.)

Sullivan's decline
I used to be an avid reader of Andrew Sullivan's blog. He is a talented writer, and at one time one of this country's great conservative thinkers. Yes, he was (and is) gay, which I disapproved (and disapprove) of, but he judged those whom he disagreed with fairly. The arguments which I disagreed with were at least thoughtful, and on the things on which we agreed he argued the point way better than I ever could.

That changed during Bush's first term. The man who once found it in his heart to defend the likes of Pat Robertson--to a point, and much more than I would have--now shows a seething hate toward evangelical Christians. His view of us changed from a fairer portrayal to the parodied and bigoted view coming from Hollywood and the east coast based media. Eventually I had to conclude that if he met me on the street, he would not like me.

And because he had deteriorated so, I stopped reading. That was sad, as I had become a fan even though I disagreed with him on his views of sexual orientation. I do hope and pray that someday the old Andrew Sullivan would wake up and really see what he has become: exactly the sort of hate-filled bigot he believes he rails against.

phylo
I guess when that terrorist we are following walks into a cellular store and grabs a new cell phone, we need to file a motion with a judge huh?

Thats the effective way to prosecute the war on terror!

andrew sullivan
boy sulivan was so defensive. he really came off rather poorly. unfortunately he sounded rather whiny.
in addition he knows almost nothing of the Catholic faith. what an embarrassment to the faith he is.
he puts his own conscience over the Magesterium and the Church teachings.
his positions can only be defended by an intentional misreadings of the Vatican Council.
basic catechism teaches this rather well and he really misses the point.
he talks about conscience. the Council speaks of a WELL FORMED conscience well versed in the teachings of the Church.
by his definition a serial killer can justify his actions because he is acting on his conscience.
these poor pseudo intellectuals are so stupid that it is really unbelievable that people take them seriously. the idea that Christianity is a democracy is silly. think about it. are we truely going to vote people in or out of Heaven? God is Judge. He decides.
Hugh, you should have had someone who actually understands the Council documents debate him on the show like Scott Hahn, Tim Grey, etc. Not only does he put himself in peril, but he puts others in peril by spreading false teachings and attributing it to the Church.
pray for him.

Andrew Sullivan
Did you have to interview that phony for a full hour (or for a full 19 minutes if one subtracts all your endless ads)? Hugh, you were more polite to him than to the poor guy who phoned in a day earlier and happened to mention that he watched the Today Show. You shouldn't mock people who are on your side quite so much.

Anyway, I couldn't stand listening to that arrogant phony, Mr. Sullivan. He's an ulta-leftist trying to bore inside conservatism in order to attempt to redefine conservatism and thereby to seed confusion among us conservatives. However, anybody fooled by his idiotic rant deserves to be confused. Real conservatives fight for late-term abortions - sure! Real conservatives would close down Gitmo - sure! You should have asked him if he supports the death penalty...or maybe you did after I turned off the radio in disgust.

You would have had a much better show if you had just gone through your criticisms of his useless book without his actual presence.

The funny thing is that when I turned the radio back on an hour later, some other guest was berating you about the weather, the meaning of the word "cold" and Bush's policy on tornados - what was that all about? He was obnoxious too, though not in the same league as Mr. Sullivan.

Please do a little more research on prospective guests before booking them. We don't like our home commutes being ruined by giving a soapbox to phonies like Mr. Sullivan, especially if you insist on being so polite to them. Let them rant and rave on Air America.

tanabear
Regardless of whether attacking a believed-to-be threat to the country is conservative, Sullivan is not a conservative merely because of his support for attacking Iraq. I trust no one will make me produce a roll call showing how the vast majority of the democrats supported that war... even John Effin Kerry.

Hewitt
"then same-sex marriage will have arrived, legitimately, in the land"

We don't have to concede that at all. It may have arrived democratically, but declaring the sky to be what we walk on and the ground to be what rain falls from can arrive democratically too, and it would still be illegitimate.

wrong question: Jefferson
The repeated question about Jefferson (as a proxy for Sullivan) should have been, "was he orthodox?", not "was he Christian?".

jerubaal
"We don't have to concede that at all. It may have arrived democratically, but declaring the sky to be what we walk on and the ground to be what rain falls from can arrive democratically too, and it would still be illegitimate."


Why would you care? It would no more affect you then the couples who get legal drive through weddings at that shrine in Las Vegas. I haven't seen or heard of any Christians protesting THAT, even if it is an insult to the integrity of the institution (which I believe it is)
Ultimately, Hugh is right. Once the law has been voted in...it is the LAW, until overturned or made irrelevant by subsequent laws. I also recall that conservatives USED to believe that the government SHOULD STAY OUT OF PEOPLE'S PRIVATE AFFAIRS!!!!!!! People can figure out their marriages and other private matters without the agents of the government getting involved.

lost his mind
andrew,
he is out of his mind with his rantings. he sounds so unhinged. he is so afraid of defending his book. he cannot really defend his views. he fillibusters and fillibusters but avoids the question.
he inexplicitly defends the judicial activism as ok since the legislature and the people can "override the decisions" there is no problem. remember that the Florida Supreme Court overrode their own constitution before.
he tries to pretend that religion and faith should not be a part of politics. he is wrong. everyone has a right to representation. he wants to exclude this for the Christian.
everyone has to decide who will represent them best. based on the Christian doctrines, the repblicans as a whole do this better than the Dems. the Dems are openly hostile to Christians and see them as a threat to our freedom and actually seem to place them as a bigger threat than the Muslim terrorist and jihadists.
how can anyone serious about their faith vote for candidates openly hostile to them and their point of view?

Sullivan
"That Andrew Sullivan is read at all is a symptom of a fundamentally unserious country"

Yep.

Want a scarier thought? People have paid him for his blog!

!!!!

celtic
"I also recall that conservatives USED to believe that the government SHOULD STAY OUT OF PEOPLE'S PRIVATE AFFAIRS"

It's not private when you're asking for social sanction. Duh.

If marriage is only a private matter between two people, then why is the government involved at all here? You wouldn't need a law saying you can get married, would you?

There is, as dam well know, a social component of marriage, an unspoken acceptance by society of the union of two people and respect for them as a sacred couple.

A society that thinks that a man can "marry" a man, frankly, is not a society I want to live in; it's a society that calls the sky the ground and the gorund the sky.

Does that answer your question?

Celtic
"It would no more affect you then the couples who get legal drive through weddings at that shrine in Las Vegas. I haven't seen or heard of any Christians protesting THAT, even if it is an insult to the integrity of the institution (which I believe it is)"

Why is that an insult to the institution? Because it's not a pretty white wedding with 500 people and cake?

celtic
"People can figure out their marriages and other private matters without the agents of the government getting involved."

Good, that's settled then. I'll let all the gay marriage activists know that they can go home now, and the courts know that their cases have been withdrawn; they don't want judges getting involved in their private matters, or the government to interfere in their relationships like they do with married people.

ROFLMBO
"No offense to those who are gay, but get bent"

That's hilarious.

MacZed
"Join in a business partnership"

They cannot do that (maybe in California they can?) unless all their property is used for profit. I just had to dig my own mind out of the gutter with that one.

However, they can take all their property as joint tenants with right of survivorship; they've had this right about as long as they've had English. That would provide for inheritance of property superceding a will or even the need for a will, as wives enjoy against their husbands, and it would also provide for a suitable framework for division of property in the event the relationship terminates.

I don't even want to discuss hospital visitation rights. If I can't allow a man I designate to visit me in the hospital, then when Celtic graduates law school we'll take that case together.

Hugh's crimes
I once heard a caller begin (begin!) his call by saying, "Now Hugh, I'm a Republican, but—" Hugh interrupted: "I don't believe you. I don't believe you're a Republican. I just don't." They argued in this vein for about a minute, with Hugh not letting a someone who apparently disagreed with him identify himself as a Republican. He is terrified of dissent, which is why (notice this?) only callers who agree with his worldview make it on his echo-chamber of a radio show. He stacks up straw men and finds the most loony of lefties to shoot down with his leading interrogations.

Andrew Sullivan was right to object to his interviewing techniques, which are designed to trap his subjects in some arcane contradiction without ever addressing larger issues.

Hugh may have a law degree and may possess some ability to string two words together, but I have zero respect for his intellect. He simply cannot accept that ANYONE could contradict his narrow worldview.

Andrew Sullivan
P2 pretty well sums up my position on Andrew Sullivan.

His blog used to be a daily read for me, and I donated to keep it going.

I seems to me that his attitude on President George W. Bush changed after W. started supporting the Anti-Gay Marriage legislation.

I listened to a part of his participation on your radio show and was disappointed with his performance.

It is sad, but as an Evangelistic Christian I too will pray for his soul and person but vote against his Gay agenda at every opportunity.

Why would jay jay listen to the show?
That would just leave him with the truth of the matter. Something his type avoid at all costs, when they are not trying to silence it.

odd criticism
Hewitt's proof that Sullivan is not a conservative is that he has never criticized the courts settling the gay marraige issue by fiat. This is a curious criticism since on his blog Sullivan repeatedly criticizes the courts on this basis. Given that Sullivan is a strong supporter of gay marraige, if this is a standard for conservatism then Sullivan would seem to pass with flying colors.

on a few things...
"I am a Republican but..." all too often the lead in for a shill from the left. If the entry was "I dont agree with you on (this point)", that would have been more easily recognized as genuine. Andrew Sullivan did make a few points that made sense, but they were only made to reach pre-arranged conclusions. Good lies require bits of truth. I personally dont agree with Hewitts approach many times, but there are still nuggets to take. I think Sullivan should write a book entitled "How to be a Relativist in Christian Clothing".

MacZed
"Could someone please explain why the rights of gay people to marry is such a big deal?"

Because they keep raising the issue, we have to keep telling them that they already have the same rights everyone else does.

MacZed
"If you want to have an abortion and you are of sound mind and understand what you are doing and the risks and the heartache you will forever feel...that's your bag baby, chop away."

I'd call that libertarian if you weren't denying the baby all liberty.

Cblue
The conservatives i read on TH are so furious with Bush a fair amount of them can't bring themselves to vote R in the coming election. At least your stuff is posted. Right wing posts don't last long on liberal blogs. So where is the tolerance and longing for intellectual debate? Some poster asked you for an idea. Maybe i'll run into one further down. How about Is affirmtive action constitutional? Does the second amendment confer an individual right to self defense? Should aliens in this country illegally be arrested and prosecuted? Should we get out of Iraq NOW? Lots of room for debate out there.

Where've you been, Mr. Hewitt?
Some of us knew this about Mr. Sullivan a loooong time ago when you were still linking to him. Glad to see you came on board!

The "Interview" with Sullivan
I listened to the entire incredible thing. I, too, used to consider Andrew Sullivan's a mandatory daily read. Then he apparently came unhinged over the same-sex marriage issue and was rendered incapable of thinking logically about any topic whatsoever.

I think that the reason Sullivan was so feverishly trying to change the subject whenever Hugh tried to ask him questions about the content of his book was that to answer such questions would have clearly shown him to be inconsistent and illogical. Even when he spoke on the topics he preferred, he was utterly incoherent when you compared one set of his remarks to another.

It is sad. And a loss to intellectual debate.

Andrew Sullivan's decline
Read the first chapter of Romans and pay attention to what is said there about the minds of homosexuals. Verses 22 and 27-28 in particular!

I'm Glad You Called Him Out
Nice to see that you called out A.S. as a gay who is dying of AIDS. Not many people are willing to identify that and connect it with his refusal to accept Jesus Christ. The gays are why there is Terrorism; it is God punishing America. Keep on making the stand!

rayhoffman, lefty troll?
I didn't see any mention of AIDS except yours.

Who knew Sullivan had AIDS?

Frankly, if he knew he had AIDS, I think he would be much more religious at this point.

Nevermind
Apparently, he does have AIDS.

I think we should all pray
for Andrew Sullivan, as if that wasn't already obvious.

Mr. Hewitt needs a squelch button
Mr. Hewitt's problem in this interview is obviously that he lacks what many talk-show hosts win their debates with--a squelch button. He frames his questions classically as a prosecutor, but with no court, he has no power to force the argument his way. He fails as both interviewer and prosecutor.
I hold no brief for Andrew's Sullivan's current politics, have no interest in his crusade against "torture," but let's get a few things clear:
1. Mr. Sullivan's anger with George Bush derives fro the fact that Bush, not Mr. Sullivan, has thrown away the conservative gamebook. Anyone want to refute that?
2. He one-upped Mr. Hewitt on his knowledge of Christian thought. Hewitt has head handed to him, using his own methods.
3. The end of any argument on this site can be predictably summed up--"The faggots will burn." Under that rule, it really didn't matter what Mr. Sullivan says or writes, does it?

Jerubaal, Celt
Jer, gotta agree with Celt. The issue of marriage is a state issue, not one for the Feds.

I always thought it was a travesty -- and I'm not making some lewd double-entendre here -- that the US Gov forced Utah to ban polygamy in order to join the Union. There's no authority for that in the Constitution. And if we want to be different from the libs, we can't do the same thing they do, i.e. only resort to the Constitution when it fits our own goals.

It either means something or it doesn't.

Jerubaal
I noticed you "found out" Mr. Sullivan has the HIV virus within a minute of posting that you didn't know. Yet you seem to be so familiar with his opinions; how is it possible that you never came across his volumes of posts about his condition, also the subject of two of his books?
If anyone needs to be prayed for, it's you and some of the other Christians here at Townhall. God help you in the "End Time." Here's a quiz you might get at the Pearly Gates:
Did Christ cure afflicted people, or impose illness on the wicked? What was He more opposed to, homosexuality or cruelty and hypocrisy?
And here's one for Rayhoffman, the brainiac: If "gays are why there is terrorism", then Israel must be one big Judy Garland concert, huh? Answer your cellphone--I think Fred Phelps needs you at a Marine's funeral somewhere.

Debate or Inquisition
Hugh Hewitt, in his post above:

"It was on this ground that I especially hoped to debate Sullivan when he appeared for eight segments on my radio show on Wednesday..."

Hugh Hewitt, transcript of interview:

"HH: We'll have ... I'm not going to be interviewed ... I'm interviewing you, because I did a lot of work to get ready for this interview, not to debate you."

Hewitt is operating under false pretenses regarding his intentions with the "interview". Sullivan correctly asessed that Hewitt was not interested in asking questions, but rather in making statements and declarations. Inquistion was an appropriate term. No doubt Hewitt looks good in red.

In other words, he is a liar.

BrianR
If the federal government cannot choose what territories become states of the union, then whose job is it? Which state do you think the Constitution gives that power to?

I think it's a state issue until the proponents of gay marriage use the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment to force their view on the state. Then they've made it a federal matter, and it's no longer a state issue. Once they've done that, it's disingenous for them to claim that it should be left to the states, when they've made a federal case out of it using federal rights.

christopher1267
You're pretty funny, dude. Yeah, I would encourage everyone to pray for me too: I could sure use it!

Naturally, I would like God to cure Andrew Sullivan and to save his soul. I would like to be saved too.

Do you think I assume that all professing Christians, including me, are saved, just because we think we are?

Interesting.

christopher1267
I never knew he had AIDS. If I ever in fact did know that, I forgot it. And yes, it took me like one second to find it out.

I assume you've heard of the internet. It's this really fast network of computers that you retreive information with.

"Did Christ cure afflicted people, or impose illness on the wicked?"

Did I ever say it was divine judgment? I feel bad for the guy - that sucks.

I disagree with him - I don't hate him.

Even if I have a worldview that says that God controls everything that happens - which I do, by the way - I do not believe AIDS is a punishment. The punishment for sin is he ll. AIDS is not it.

Terrorism and Gays?
Ray Hoffman,

If terrorism is our punishment for gays, then what is God punishing India for?
You're saying that God is empowering Muslims to inflict death on individuals, regardless of whether or not those people support gay rights. What kind of God do you worship anyway? It never would have occurred to me that hijackers and suicide bombers were doing the Lord's work. If you're right then Mohammad Atta really did go straight to heaven, for doing what the Lord commanded him. You learn something new every day.

Mountain Rose
I heard both as well: Sullivan sounded like a very disoriented and insecure person. He was extremely combative and his ranting about trivial nonsense was such that I just had to change the station.

IMHO, he seems like someone who's ventured into something he now wishes he hadn't. Now he's trying desperately to drape himself in the conservative clothes that no longer fit. This may be what Hewitt was alluding to.

Rantel's interview: Al was extremely patronizing and supportive of this supposedly devout Christian and author who was advocating that Christians withdraw from the political process. But I will be dam*ed if Rantel could get a straight answer from this guy as to why he would take such a position - nothing but whiny, mealy-mouthed equivocation - other than they need to re-spiritualize.

One is left with no other motivation than he is supportive of and complicit in the left's effort to suppress the religious right's vote. What other way do you get the media's fawning attention but for a noted rightist to betray his former comrades. If it was money, I trust it won't be adequate compensation for the treachery he has identified himself with.

BrianR
Do you think it's unconstitutional that Texas has the right to split into three states if it wants, under its agreement with Congress? Where do you draw the line at agreements for acession to the Union? Did you know that some states have the right to secede? Is that unconstitutional?

Texas wanted their condition before they joined. We're lucky to have them. They first offered to join the British Empire before they found out that the Parliament would not make Sam Houston the King of England.

Utah wanted to join the Union. But there was no way we were going to force every state to recognize poligamy under the full faith and credit clause, so we had one big condition. If they weren't willing to meet that condition, Utah would still be a territory.

Of course it's moot now that the Mormon canon evolved under selection pressure from the rest of us.

So tell me, what bargaining power does Congress have in the acession process, or do they have accept any offer that they're given?

Your argument, BrianR,
that there's no authority in the Constitution to condition acession on certain requirements is strange.

I mean, there's no authority in the Constitution to invade any country either. Sure, we can declare wars, and the president can command armies, but there's no authority in the Constitution to take foreign territory.

If you're going to say it's implied, I'd say that leaving the judgment up to Congress to add states to the union also gives them power to determine how that will occur, when, and with whom.

Do you think that every state should have been forced to legalize polygamy just because there's not an article granting Congress bargaining power with the strange fronteir lands of Utah?

Jer: Actually
I do think states have the right to secede from the Union.

As to invading a country, certainly we can in the prosecution of a war. However, if you'll note, we don't stay on as permanent occupiers. We're not an imperialist country.

If you're referring specifically to Iraq, we were fully justified to do so unilaterally, as Iraq had violated the terms of its surrender from the first Gulf War.

BTW, as to full faith and credit
That terminology is grossly misunderstood today. To begin with, just because state A recognizes state B's polygamous marriages doesn't mean it becomes legal to perform polygamous marriages in state A.

Secondly, full faith and credit actually specifically refers to the money that was issued within each state being recognized in every other state. There was no federal currency at that time. The interpretation has been absurdly expanded in the meantime.

The Interview
I'm not HH Fan #1 or anything, but Sullivan really did sound as if he were in the beginning stages of a breakdown. And when he started in with the Gnostic garbage, I felt he would be a more fitting guest for Coast to Coast with Art Bell. Don't you just love how these "progressives" who preach so loudly about tolerance and non-judgmentalism launch into endless attacks and allegations against more orthodox believers. They automatically flunk their one-and-only moral test.

As someone with journalistic experience, I regard Hewitt's interview style as far from ideal. But he was correct in not allowing the interviewee to dictate the conversation's direction.

BTW, I agree that these talk shows take way too many breaks, but it's very bad form to publicly blast the host and his network when they're giving you an outlet to publicize your work. Sullivan is a doink and his beliefs are noxious.

pistol
Without doubt all the issues you listed are worthy of debate. As to what lefty blogs do, that's not particularly relevant -- I'm not sure which poster asked me for an idea in this thread having scrolled back through it. Nonetheless, here's one: rather than blast Sullivan as being a lefty in an equally histrionic screed, Mr. Hewitt would do better to take on Sullivan's arguments. As to Sullivan's politics, I've yet to meet a true lefty who supports the President's economic policies (minus the disasterous overspending) as Sullivan does.

Kimberly
YAWN........

Sullivan, Conservatism and the Court
Sullivan, like a number of other conservatives that no longer relate to the Republican Party, is sincerely trying to examine how an unprovoked war, unchecked spending, a $7.5 trillion deficit, Terri Schiavo, a nanny state every Democratic only dreams of, Medicare Plan D to mention only a few of the things this congress and president have accomplished; gets pinned with the label conservative.
When HH asked this question to Sullivan early in the interview I knew that any ideas that Sullivan might have HH was not really interested in hearing. HH said, "Let me try this a separate way. If, in fact, a Catholic is in a state of mortal sin, as the Church defines mortal sin, may they receive communion?"
What a cheap shot. I'm so tired of people arguing about who's imaginary super hero is stronger and more powerful. I also don't care that Sullivan is gay or whether or not his book had footnotes.
I would like to know why the Republican party has swung so far left that conservatives are voting for Democratics in this election. I am an Agnostic, Libertarian and as far as I can tell the party that best represents conservatives besides my own is the Democratic party.
I'm beginning to think that the Libertarian Party may benefit from all this as well. One thing is for sure; Republicans are very confused right now. They cannot articulate the simplest concepts.

HH, Gabriel, declares a fallen angel
As I read HH's latest hornblowing about who is or isn't in his heaven today, I have to think that this AS-HH clash is one that ought to be a clarion call to liberal theologians to sit up and realize how pervasive a misguided moral philosophy is being trumpeted from the "right" in service of "Christian ambition" and "majoritarian" judicial tyranny.

Andrew Sullivan has merely done all a favor in kicking over the small stones, by refusing to comply with an inquisitorial-style interview that sets its sites less on instruction than on declaring this one or that one the "radical" du jour, in order to keep a "permanent political majority".

Who's a "radical"?

This is the Amazon book description of HH's book, "In, but not of": "...advice on how to rise in the world and achieve the kind of radical success that honors God."

Guess Hugh doesn't mind radicals when it is himself and his works?

Why doesn't he just get it over and call Andrew a heretic, as it is so obvious that he wants to? (I just bring the to trial, you guys have to burn them yourselves ... no blood on my hands, you see.)

The Obligations of a 'Constitutional Majoritarian'?

Here is more false leadership, but big words have sex appeal - it means that the local Magisterium has reviewed the issue, no more thought or doubt required, just your vote for the GOP - or else, "Heresy"!

Truth be told, HH is probably more afraid of a true approach to public policy that he advocates on this issue than he lets on. That is why the stridency. Why can he convince people using the force of right reason, engage in debate? Has anyone tallied the number of hours that GOP-led State Legislatures have spent debating gay relationship legislation? Last one I looked at, Virginia, they rammed it through with nil discussion ...

And what if the majority one day holds that the State has no compelling interest in marriage at all (does it truly?). What if it held that poor people should be limited to one child - it makes sense and could easily get a majority. I suspect he would be running to the courts as fast as you can say, "I didn't mean THAT!".

And the rest of the unspoken Word is that he wants a >Moral< Majoritarian, not what was envisioned by the framers, which was an >Enlightened< Majoritarian. He leaves that part out, though -- too confusing and doesn't get enough votes for the permanent majority!

And once one sees the unspoken part, you can agree that Hugh is right on the law, but also that the debate is right back where it belongs, as AS points out, more or less, on how do we want to treat each other in an Enlightened Republic, that strikes the right balance between reason and faith, that doesn't fall prey to certain "Christian Ambitions" and Christianist "Permanent Majorities".

... wrong text version - fixes
bring the to trial
---
s.b "bring them to trial"

Why can he convince people using the force of right reason
----
s.b. "can he not convince ..."

Andrew, will you marry me?
Andrew Sullivan's growing irrationality is directly tied to his emotional desire to see gay "marriage" codified nationally. He cannot understand why our society rejects gay "marriage" on such a massive scale. I believe he has taken it as a personal rejection and is now engaged in a perpetual temper tantrum.

Of Conservatives and Russians
"Sullivan... is no more a conservative than I am a Russian."

As the idealism of youth has passed over the last decade or so, I have found myself returning to my New England conservative roots. But what passes for conservativism these days looks a lot like liberalism: big budgets, deficit spending, big federal government, foreign interventionism, and above all, the attempt to create utopia (in this case, a Christian one) by regulating people's behavior through legislation. In fact, I'm fond of comparing President Bush with LBJ.

Sullivan, though I do not agree with him entirely, speaks to a tradition of conservativism apparently long forgotten by most self-proclaimed conservatives. His common sense-- and his willingness to reconsider his positions in response to valid criticism-- are refreshing.

In short, Sullivan speaks my language. Does the GOP? As they say in your native tongue, "Nyet."
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