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Thursday, February 28, 2008
Herb London :: Townhall.com Columnist
Taiwan and the Current International Reality
by Herb London
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While the United States and many European nations have recognized Kosovo’s declaration of independence from Serbia, China has indicated it will avoid any precedent that could be applied to Taiwan.

In fact, in 2005 China’s National People’s Congress passed an “anti secession law” which said: “Both the mainland and Taiwan belong to one China. China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity brook no division.” This anti secession law explicitly gives the Chinese government the authority to “employ non-peaceful means and other necessary measures” should Taiwan unilaterally declare its independence.

With Kosovo’s declaration, Taiwan is once again on the front burner as an international issue. The Taiwanese presidential election in March 2008 and the referendum on United Nations’ admission offer stark evidence that Taiwan’s ambiguous status will be given careful examination.

Much has changed in the China-Taiwan relationship in the last few decades. For one, China-Taiwan trade was at roughly $120 billion in 2007 up from $2 billion at the end of the 1980’s. More than half of Taiwan’s outbound investment goes to China putting Taiwan in the position of either number four or five in direct investor status on the mainland. Moreover, somewhere around 25 million Chinese are employed in Taiwanese businesses on the mainland leading to a level of integration that could not have been imagined a decade ago.

Surely this integration moderates, to some degree, China’s military buildup across the straits. But China’s adamant position vis-à-vis Taiwan overlooks the current reality.

Taiwan is an advanced economy that recently replaced Australia as the 16th most wealthy nation on the globe. It’s population of 23 million people is larger than three-quarters of the nations at the United Nations. It’s role in the design and manufacture of the I-Phone among other advanced consumer products is the envy of most Asian states. And since 1988, when martial law was suspended, it has had a vibrant democracy and vigorous competition between the Kuomintang (KMT) and the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP).

The idea that Taiwan is a “renegade province” – an expression often used by Chinese leaders – overlooks the evolution of this island nation. At the outset, when Chiang Kai Shek took six million adherents to Formosa, there was little doubt these people identified themselves as Chinese who at some point had a vision of returning to the mainland. Over time, however, this identification has changed.

Today, when asked the question of identity more than 70 percent said they are Taiwanese. Not only has Taiwanese nationalism effloresced, but the disparity between Taiwan’s per capita income of $28,000 and China’s at $1800 stands as a vivid reminder to Taiwanese that communist leadership in China is not what they want to embrace.

While the KMT is somewhat more accommodationist in its stance toward China than the DPP, it is not willing to modify the status-quo. What it does suggest is that tourism and cultural ties should be encouraged in order to promote further understanding with the vague suggestion that is the future (some distant future) the two states may be united.

By contrast, if one may call it a contrast rather than a nuanced position, the DPP embodies the nation’s newly discovered nationalist fervor. It argues that Taiwan has more to offer China than the reverse. Former President Chen engaged in rhetorical flourishes about independence that alarmed the White House and infuriated China. But these comments were more a reflection of de facto nationalism rather than de jure separation.

Taiwan’s stance is in fact an ambiguous one between independence and reunification. If independence were actually declared, it might serve as a casus belli for China. If reunification were to be a short term policy, any Taiwanese government advocating it would fall. Hence there is a delicate minuet between the two rival positions with neither in the ascendancy, despite an occasional minor tilt in one direction or the other.

There is a growing international perspective that time is on China’s side, but I see it differently. Fissures in the Chinese economy and a totalistic political system indicate that dictatorial party control and the free market are incompatible. Should China go through a form of democratization, the Taiwan question could easily be addressed. A democratic China might hold genuine gravitational pull for Taiwanese who despite nationalistic sentiment still retain transcendent ethnic ties to China. Or more likely, a democratic China would simply maintain close relations to Taiwan with the latter serving as a political model to be emulated. Perhaps under these circumstances a confederation could be entertained.

Therefore the key to the resolution of the so-called Taiwan Straits issue is patience on the part of Taiwan and a belief that at some point liberalization in China will open a host of opportunities.

The United States should play a significant role in this political equation. After all, the U.S. is the only nation with the military strength to offset an adventurous gambit by China across the Taiwan Straits. Even if America’s military interests in Asia recede, the U.S. must maintain a military umbrella for Taiwan so that the force of liberalization can gain a foothold in China. If I am correct, Taiwan needs time and the U.S. can provide it.

American leaders should continually send a message to Chinese officials that a military solution for what China calls its Taiwan problem is unacceptable, even if China refuses to take the military option off the table. Taiwan deserves our support and China must realize that missiles bristling in Fijian Province and its increasingly menacing blue-water navy will not deter the United States’ defensive commitment to Taiwan.

At the moment, Taiwan feels isolated. The penumbra of China is palpable. China’s growing influence on the world stage which includes blandishments for those that renounce Taiwan and implicit threats for others is keenly felt by Taiwanese officials. Nonetheless, twenty-four nations presently recognize Taiwan and this island nation’s technical assistance program in Latin America and Africa have the potential to generate new friends.

Taiwan wants U.N. recognition as a way to break through the isolation. For Taiwan U.N. membership or some affiliated status is a national security issue. If Avian flu were to cross to the Taiwan Straits without notification from the World Health Organization, for example, thousands of lives could be put in jeopardy. The upcoming Taiwan referendum on this matter is advertised all over Taipei as “Taiwan in the U.N.: Peace Forever.” This is, of course, wildly hyperbolic, but it does reflect Taiwan’s desire for recognition.

Most Taiwanese officials do not realize that U.N. participation could limit national sovereignty, even if the U.N. gives tacit recognition to sovereign states. The example of Israel is illustrative; it is a U.N. member continually censured by the Human Rights Commission and is isolated in the U.N. by the bloc voting of the 57 Muslim nations. Whatever the outcome in the Taiwan U.N. referendum, China’s veto in the Security Council is ultimately dispositive. It will not allow formal status for Taiwan and, most likely, will resist informal status as well.

As I see it, Taiwan can secure some measure of international status through bilateral arrangements of a formal and informal nature with neighboring Asian nations, e.g. Japan, Singapore and Indonesia. Chinese saber rattling has had a chastening effect on regional nations that fear potential Chinese imperial aspirations. As a consequence, Taiwan can play a modest role in an Asian defense condominium through its technical expertise and its own defense capability.

Although China is or will soon be in a position to display overwhelming force directed at Taiwan, the Taiwanese should invest heavily in a robust anti-missile system that will have to be factored into any Chinese offensive threat. Just as Chinese missiles are a symbol of intimidation, Taiwanese defenses are a symbol of resistance and determination.

As I see it, this island nation has performed a miracle in a scant sixty years. From a fledging state comprised of those seeking sanctuary from communist oppression, it has emerged full blown as an economic giant and a stable democracy. If any nation deserves our support, it is Taiwan. Kosovo may serve as a precedent, albeit this new state has not proven itself in any way. Taiwan, however, has proven itself in every way. In a world where power often replaces moral standing, it would be refreshing for morality to prevail and for Taiwan to receive its just rewards.

If Taiwan remains patient and democracy in Asia is inexorable as I believe it to be, that day may not be far off.

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About The Author

Herbert London is president of Hudson Institute and professor emeritus of New York University. He is the author of Decade of Denial (Lanham, Maryland: Lexington Books, 2001).

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Living with Blinders
"If Taiwan remains patient and democracy in Asia is inexorable as I believe it to be, that day may not be far off."

To believe that is to ignore current world events, which amazingly comes quite naturally to academics. Currently China is engaged in an unprecedented arms build up, is locking down strategic energy resources, and (in a telling fashion) "strategic routes" among bullied Asian, Middle Eastern, and Pacific States. China is providing funding, weapons, as well as missile, and nuclear technology to middle eastern nations like Iran with which Iran is using to 'tie both David and Goliath' down. I find it ironic that no one seems to notice that a serious shooting war has begun in the last 48 hours between Israel and Iran's proxy Hamas while China's military and Navy stands off Irans shores guarding their nuclear installations. A diversion is planned and is in motion that will pay rewards to two developing powers. When the 40 days of mourning has passed in Iran revenge will follow. Until then Russian and Chineese rockets that fall on Israel will increase in number forcing Israel to strike first. When that happens - and it will - the last thing the U.S. will want to worry about is Taiwan.

Taiwan
MA Ying-Jeou is going to win next month. The KMT/PFP have control of the Li Fa Yuan. You won't be seeing any more moves on Taiwan joining the UN as Taiwan for awhile. And in any event, even if it passes (and like the 2004 referendum it will probably fail), China and other states like the US is not likely to allow Taiwan to join.

And Chen is still President...until May anyway...unless there is news I (and Chen) don't know about.

And getting help from Singapore, Singapore is a de facto extension of the PRC.


Follow the money:
The PRC has poured millions into Democrat party
coffers. What do you suppose they want in return?

I fear for the people of Taiwan when a Democrat
takes the White House.

Taiwan to use its $160 billions reserves
By using its huge foreign reserves wisely, Taiwan should hire the same pros who work for Israel to earn the similar TLC from USA & then push Washington to do the following:

1. To pressure PRC to become a democratic state just like today's Taiwan & then Taiwan will join PRC to form a new democratic China, sooner the better & everybody safe and sleep well. If PRC says no, then go step 2--

2. To redefine that outdated ONE CHINA policy as follows:

THERE IS ONLY "ONE CHINA" ON EARTH WHICH CONSISTS OF ROC(AKA TAIWAN SINCE 1911), PRC(1949), MONGOLIA(1959[?]) AND PERHAPS TIBET, XINCHIANG & OTHERS TO COME LATER.

Furthermore have Washington to say: (a) PRC is not = CHINA & CHINA not = PRC alone; & (b) ROC/Taiwan has never been a part of PRC & PRC has never owned ROC/Taiwan during the entire history of both states. Therefore Taiwan is not part of PRC but it is a member of China.

KL


China to become democratic
Like Sky I see the reality that China and Russia are our adversaries. After Tiannamen Square and Putin's squelching of political dissent it is a pipe dream to think they'll become democratic. They are embracing some level of capitalism only because it serves their ends. Free markets maybe but freedom of expression never.

China
In 1979, Taiwan under the KMT tried to close a anti-government magazine known as Formosa Magazine (Mei Li Dao Za Zhi). A riot broke out and the greatests civil unrest since the 2-28 incident in 1947 (which killed as many people as the PRC did at Tiananmen) soon followed. Many of the leading activists were sent to prison including the current vice-president of the ROC. The current president was a lawyer who defended many of them and this among all else was what started the movement that brought about the formation of the DPP in 1986.

In 1987, martial law ended. In 1991 the full 1948 constitution was restored as the mobilization during the communist rebellion was ended. In 1991 the now defunct National Assembly had 100% of its members elected by the people of Taiwan. In 1992, the Li Fa Yuan would join them as the "old thieves" were forced from office. In 1995 the mayors of Kaohsiung and Taipei were directly elected, in 1996 the president and vice-president was directly elected which made Taiwan a full democracy..only 17 years after the Kaohsiung riots and 49 years after 2-28.

17 years after 2-28, was 1964 in Taiwan. The PRC today is not unlike what Taiwan was like in 1964, an authoritarian, one-party state. China may well be as democratic as Taiwan is today in 2038. Just because China isn't democractic now, doesn't mean it won't be in the future. Just look at Taiwan, but that doesn't mean the Taiwan problem would vanish. Most Chinese are more hardline toward Taiwan than the leadership is and a government that relies on votes to stay in power may indeed become more hardline as well to satisfy the nationalist demands of the populace.


Taiwan
"I fear for the people of Taiwan when a Democrat
takes the White House."

In 1996, the US sent two battle groups to Taiwan during what would become the "Third Taiwan Strait Crisis." The president was Bill Clinton.

As long as Taiwan doesn't move toward formal independence, the PRC won't do anything toward Taiwan and that has no relationship with who is in the White House. As the pro-China KMT/PFP won a landslide victory in January's Li Fa Yuan elections and will win a landslide victory again in the presidential elections in March as Ma Ying-Jeou (who is a Hong Konger, not a Taiwanese) will defeat Hsieh Ch'ang Ting (a Taiwanese) any formal moves toward independence will be dead and many of the informal moves by Chen will be rolled back.

It will also be the first time since Jiang Jing Guo, who died in 1988, that a non-Taiwanese has held the presidency.

The KMT-led government will be less confrontational toward China, expect talks on technical issues to begin again between ARATS and the SEF. China has bigger things to worry about than Taiwan so as long as it continues the myth of belonging to some China, the PRC will not try to upset the status quo.

And Republican regimes have hardly been all that good to Taiwan either. It was Nixon who violated the one-China policy and visted China and set up unofficial liason offices, it was Nixon's regime that allowed UN resolution 2758 to go forward without a fight, it was Reagan that signed the Third Communique as Nixon signed the first. And it was Bush that scolded the democraticly elected Chen Shui-bian in front of Wen Jiabao over the 2004 referendum over Chinese missiles pointing at Taiwan from Fujian, just as Rice is doing the same over Taiwan's entry into the UN.

The GOP has hardly treated Taiwan much better than the Dems have.


I agree with
Sky and Gymrat

Russia was first in line to receive smuggled oil from Iraq under the protection of the UN's 'food for oil' humanitarian effort. Sanctions against Saddam only solidified his relationship with Putin, but was hidden from view until we attacked Iraq. America pulled off the sheets, and there they were..exposed.

China wants oil and Russia wants oil, and they have no conscience. They will steal it, burn it, bury it's biproducts in waterways and dumps. They don't care about the environment or they wouldn't be sending toys over here with lead paint. Seems like lead paint is a level 100 course in environmental safety. I can only conclude that they don't care.

Americans fret about global warming and how to save the planet while our enemies go behind our back, steal our ideas, build up arms, and laugh at our altruism.


A few things
In the article the author claims that 70% of Taiwanese (meaning those that live in Taiwan and not simply the 85% that are benshengren)consider themselves Taiwanese, well that is incorrect. I'd like for him to provide a source for that stat.

45.8% see themselves as BOTH Chinese AND Taiwanese and 43.7% as Taiwanese ONLY. 5.5% as Chinese ONLY.

So depending how you want to spin this, you can say 89.5% see themselves as Taiwanese or 51.3% see themselves as Chinese. So you can say--90% (or almost every Taiwanese) of Taiwanese see themselves as Taiwanese or if you had another point of view...the majority of Taiwanese see themselves as Chinese. Both statements would be true. Both would not be 100% accurate either.

http://esc.nccu.edu.tw/eng/data/data03-2.htm

A Few things Part II
As China continues to place missiles in Fujian--now over 800 of them, and placing advanced fighters in Hainan, Guangdong, Fujian and Zhejiang, I see no evidence that China has moderated its buildup...it continues to spend much more on its military than its needs for purely defensive requirements--much of this buildup is aimed toward Taiwan.

Martial law was ended in 1987, not 1988 and the DPP's only weapon as most members of the Li Fa Yuan were frozen into office was cause riots inside the Li Fa Yuan...vigorous competition between the KMT and DPP didn't really happen until at least the mid-1990s.

It also as implied that the KMT ended up in Formosa on 10-1-1949, but rather the KMT was in Taiwan as of 10-25-1945. The only difference for Taiwan between 1946 and 1949 for example was that after 1949 thye capital was in Taipei and not Nanjing and yes you can say he KMT is somewhat more accommodationist in its stance toward China since its two-time presidential candidate and party chairman went to China with a KMT delegation and signed all sort of agreements with Hu Jintao--in some places that would have been seen as treason.

"Or more likely, a democratic China would simply maintain close relations to Taiwan with the latter serving as a political model to be emulated. Perhaps under these circumstances a confederation could be entertained."

Since the people of China are even more hardline toward Taiwan than the government, I don't see how the author comes to this conclusion.

I find it funny that so many TH columnists write about Taiwan and yet seem to know very little about the subject they are commenting on.

China
C.H. Wrote:

"China wants oil and Russia wants oil, and they have no conscience. They will steal it, burn it, bury it's biproducts in waterways and dumps. They don't care about the environment or they wouldn't be sending toys over here with lead paint. Seems like lead paint is a level 100 course in environmental safety. I can only conclude that they don't care."

Just as the US didn't care in 1908 or Taiwan in 1978. Like me to describe the Love River in Kaohsiung or the Tainan Canal in the 1990s?

As Taiwan became more properous and its middle class grew it became more concerened with the environment and the same will sooner or later happen in China. China--like the US when its economy was rapidly growing--has little consumer protection and a good deal of corruption as China's middleclass grows, there will be more calls for consumer protection and it is in the government's interest to make sure its products are safe and its environment is protected, but it is a work in progress, don't expect it to be solved overnight.

For KL
Mongolia was part of Manchu Empire China prior to 1912, and independent of China forever thereafter. It was pro-SOVIET (having borders to both sides, it chose the one with the further-away capital) Communists who were there in 1959.

KL mistakes
Mongolia overran China in the 13th century and formed the Yuan (meaning first) Dynasty. Throughout the Ming and Qing various parts of Mongolia were part of China.

In 1911, Mongolia declared independence but Chinese troops invaded and retook the capital in 1919. In 1924, with the help of Soviet troops, Mongolia was able to successfully become an independent state. The PRC dropped its claims to the state of Mongolia in 1949 in exchange for Soviet recognition.

The ROC officially still claims Mongolia. There was talk of dropping this claim in the 1990s, but it didn't go anywhere. But in reality the only ROC is Taiwan, Penghu, Jinmen and Mazu and a few islands in the Nansha and Dongsha in the South China Sea (Nanhai). If not for China's threats, the name of the ROC would be dropped entirely, but since the 1990s, the government in Taiwan has put emphasis on the name Taiwan. The website of the diplomatic corps is http://www.taiwanembassy.org and passports have Taiwan printed on the front.





In 1911, Taiwan was part of Japan. Taiwan didn't become part of the ROC until 1945.

Xinjiang has been part of China since the Qing Dynasty and Tibet since 1951.

Just because China becomes a democracy, why do you assume Taiwan should or wants to be a part of it? You may sleep better, treasonous executives of multinationals like UPS, the American foreign policy establishment of the US might sleep better, but do you think the people of Taiwan would? Don't they have the right to be masters of their own house no matter what the political system of China is?

I suggest the US join the EU...I think the world might sleep better too when that happens.




There is only one China
and its capital is on Taiwan.

Akagi - Communist China
should be given to Japan to do with whatever they want. I would suggest prostitution and slave labor.

No, I seldom forgive and never forget.

Yes, this is an emotional statement, not a reasoned one. Sometimes even conservatives express their feelings rather than their thoughts.

Shocking but true.

Taiwan
"There is only one China
and its capital is on Taiwan."

Officially the ROC capital is still Nanjing, but the provisional capital is Taipei. And while the government uses the term ROC and some on the far right in the New Party and PFP like to hold this view most in Taiwan and almost everyone in the government has dropped this view.

Taiwan doesn't want to rule China, it simply wants to rule itself and would you really want to govern places like Yunan that make less than $2 a day?

Lee Teng Hui dropped the myth that the ROC was the legitimate government of the mainland back in 1991.

As for giving China to Japan...1) Japan wouldn't want it. 2) Japan tried this from 1931 until 1945 and it didn't work out very well. 3) Japan is outnumbered 10 to 1. 4) The US "gave" Taiwan to the ROC, I don't think the mainlanders would be as docile as those in Taiwan was in 1945.




Akagi
You have America as an example. America has volumes of instruction on environmental safety and conservation. Why do you keep comparing China today with America of 1908. China could have avoided polluting if they had taken a lesson from us, we already figured that out. They know how to steal patents from us and copy us in every other way. Are you telling me they couldn't figure out how to utilize our knowledge regarding environmentalism? I don't think they wanted to. They are more concerned with being #1.

I don't blame them, but it seems ludicrous for us to be so extreme while other countries have complete disregard for conservation. I admire Russia and China for their ambition. I believe in conservation but not at the expense of progress, because China and Russia are moving 'full steam ahead' to be the new world power. They don't have environmental guilt that prevents them from moving forward.

If China and Russia and other countries are using fuel, drilling and refining and we are doing nothing because we fear damaging the environment it seems we will soon not be a world power.

Akagi
I enjoyed this article. You seem very knowledgable. I am going to try to read all your posts. I hope you will be around to help me understand your country better. It seems extremely complicated.

Who fought
Mark:

The NRA and the warlords did the bulk of the fighting in China against Japan. The NRA stands for the National Revolutionary Amry which belonged to the ROC. The PLA sat out most of the war with the major exception of the Battle of Pingxingguan in September of 1937. Mostly the PLA was satisfied with small time hit and run attacks. The PLA simply stayed out of the war and saved its resources for the real war to follow--the return of the civil war.

The US supported the ROC--the official government of China. After the Xian incident in 1936, the NRA/KMT and PLA/CCP were supposed to be a united front against Japan, but both saw the real enemy as each other and still fought a number of battles against each other after the united front.

In 1946 the civil war began again, the US tried to mediate a coalition government between the CCP and KMT (see Dixie Mission, Marshall Mission to China) but it failed and the US withdrew support from the ROC/KMT in 1948. It fell in 1949, the government retreating to the only province it firmly controlled (Taiwan). It withdrew from Hainan in early 1950, but retained control of two small Fujian islands--Jinmen and Mazu which the ROC still controls today.

And C.H.

The reason that China (and Taiwan in the past) didn't care much about environmental issues is cost. The drive was to rapidly industralized and create exportable goods, not to protect the environment. It is only in recent years that Taiwan has been concerned and China is still decades behind Taiwan in that regard.


Akagi
'The reason that China (and Taiwan in the past) didn't care much about environmental issues is cost. The drive was to rapidly industralized and create exportable goods, not to protect the environment. It is only in recent years that Taiwan has been concerned and China is still decades behind Taiwan in that regard.'


Yes...agreed.

Our productivity comes to a halt because of expensive environmental restrictions. Meanwhile, China and Russia are polluting with impunity, undoing our efforts to keep the environment clean(we live on the same planet)....we lose in both arenas.


Akagi
I think one way America will again out compete other nations is simply the internet.

People will be working from home, shopping from home, etc...they won't be consuming as much fuel. It's going to take awhile to get past the babyboomers, but soon the younger people will be shaping the work force. I know many of them don't want to be in an office. It really makes a lot more sense, because you don't commute, you don't heat your home and your office simultaneously, and you are a happier person not to be in the rat race.

Unfortunately I think Romney was the only candidate that could've appreciated the efficiency of that futuristic model.

To Whom It May Concern
The regime of the People's Republic of China is the 666 beast. Period.

Anyone who believes in or kowtows to the regime has received the 'mark' of the beast.


Dreamers
The internet is a handy tool, but someone still has to make it, and yet another deliver it, whatever "it" is - hamburgers or coffee mugs. Energy and resource consumption will be a must.

Have any of you read the Chinese constitution? It is not an inspiring document. I have my hopes that liberal sensibilities will eventually take hold in the mainland, and that the mighty gov't in control of most everything will allow it and even yield to it. But you need a class of rulers willing to let other people make choices, good and bad.

Heck, we are finding that kind of liberty harder and harder to come by here in the US.

TO AKAGI ON CHINA
Akagi: Thanks for your input. But I am still confused on your CHINA. When you refer to China, do you mean PRC=China & China=PRC only?

As to a truly democratic PRC:

Emotion aside, most Taiwanese may not mind to have their best men to compete for the presidency & congressmen of the new free PRC(or China if you prefer, it doesn't matter what's her name then). Who is to say that Taiwanese are forever born losers & will never win the elections in a truly democratic, multiparty system? What's wrong for Taiwanese to be the president & congressmen of new China? Don't forget they are very experienced in election campaigns & they have the wherewithal.

Taiwan Part I
KL:

Taiwan is 23 million people which is less than 2% of the population of China. Sichuan province itself has a population over 10 times the size of Taiwan, Taiwan is only twice the size of Shanghai's population. A Taiwan unified with China would simply vanish into a sea of mainlanders...simply become a small yet rich province among other rich provinces like Guangdong or Fujian. Taiwan would forever be dominated by the mainlanders. Most Taiwanese would favor being masters of their own house.

Only 5% support unification, the vast majority oppose unification by either supporting independence or supporting de facto independence (aka status quo).

China is China and Taiwan is Taiwan. Taiwan is not China, Taiwan is Taiwan. And yes, China is the PRC.


Taiwan Part II
For the vast majority of Chinese history, Taiwan has not been part of China. Even when the Qing Empire got "control" of Taiwan in 1683 its control was limited to simply the major settlements along the west coast. It had no control in the central mountains or on the eastern coastal plain. A mainland based government has controlled Taiwan completely for exactly 3 years, 11 months and 6 days. From October 25, 1945 until October 1, 1949.

The ROC had no right to demand Taiwan's return at Cairo in 1943 as the ROC being the sucessor state to the Qing Empire was required under international law to abide by Qing obligations and the Qing renounced all claims to Taiwan and Penhu via the Treaty of Maguan (aka Treaty of Shimonoseki) which ended the First Sino-Japanese War in 1895. The US and the UK had no right to "give" Taiwan to the ROC or include this demand in the Potsdam demands on Japan in July of 1945 since neither the US or the UK had sovereignity over Taiwan.

ROC occupation of Taiwan and annexing it into China was a violation of international law and illegal. As the sucessor state to the ROC, any claims on Taiwan by the PRC is also a violation of international law and illegal as well.

Since Japan gave up all claims to Taiwan in 1952 when it signed the peace treaty ending the Pacific War in San Francisco, Taiwan under international law has the right of self-determination and thus has the right to decide and only it has the right to decide what political affiliation it desires which includes the right of independence. For far too long Taiwan has been the pawn of the great powers...the Dutch, the Spanish, the Ming rebels of Zheng Chenggong, the Qing Empire, the Japanese, the Americans and the Chinese. It is time for the Taiwanese to get to decide their own future.


And from the peanut gallery...
And Charles:

This "The regime of the People's Republic of China is the 666 beast. Period. Anyone who believes in or kowtows to the regime has received the 'mark' of the beast" is just total tripe, care to actually post intelligent comments?



Environment
C.H.

China is trying to do a better job environmentally as they realize how it is starting to impact them in a bad way. Some rivers are so polluted the water can't even be used for industrial uses. The air quality in the northeast is at times close to unbreathable and on the dry North China Plain where Beijing is any water at all is becoming an issue. In the northwest like in Gansu you have issues of turning grasslands into desert. But China is years and years behind advanced countries in environmental protection...China is still a very poor country more inline with Haiti than an advanced country like the US.

You are also correct about environmental costs. One reason Formosa Plastics put its 6th naptha cracker in China instead of Taiwan was Taiwan's environmental regulations.

Taiwan's environmental protection has increased greatly especially since the DPP got control of major cities like Kaohsiung and Taipei in the mid and late 1990s and the presidency (which it will lose this year) in 2000.

The air quality in Taipei and Kaohsiung are much much better...you can no longer see the air as you could in the 1990s and it doesn't burn your eyes when you walk outside. Water quality such as in the Love River and the Tainan Canal has also greatly improved. I expect China to make progress in this area too, but it will take time.

Environmental improvements began when Taiwan had a large propserous middle class who didn't like to smell the Love River or to have the air their breathe burn their eyes...and Taiwan was by this time semi-democratic to fully democratic..these conditions don't exist at this time in the PRC and the people in China and the government are more concerned as was Taiwan in the past with economic development and putting money in people's pockets and food on the table than environmental protection.


Taiwan--Part I
KL:

Let's look and see what would be the results of a Taiwan unified with a democratic China and assume China takes either a Taiwanese-style system or an American one. The new PRC has say a 500 member Li Fa Yuan, Taiwan would have maybe 10 seats in this body. At 2% of the population it is doubtful a Taiwanese would ever be elected president of China. I use the term Taiwanese to cover anyone living in Taiwan not just a benshengren. But even if this were the case a Taiwanese had the presidency or premier, how could simply the head of state and/or head of government and 5 Li Fa Yuan members protect Taiwan's interests. Now say it is an American system and you have the Li Fa Yuan based on population and each Chinese province, SAR and autonomous region having 4 seats for a 120 member Guo Min Da hui (which would serve like the US Senate). In this case Taiwan has 5 Li Fa Yuan members (2%) and 4 Guo Min Da Hui members (3%)and maybe the president. Again the numbers would be too small to have any effect and powerless to protect Taiwan's interests.

Taiwan part II
You could suggest a system where each region of China was broken into various "cantons" so China proper, Taiwan, Xinjiang, Xizang, Guangxi, Neimenggu, a Manchu area, HK and Aomen not unlike Lee Teng Hui suggested a number of years ago. So 9 regions and each takes turns at the presidency--every place this has been tried it has failed--with terrible results--Lebanon and Yugoslavia, both systems ended in civil war.

Now look at an independent Taiwan--the president, vice-president, the premier, every member of the Li Fa Yuan, etc etc are 100% Taiwanese (see above for how I am using this term--in this context even Ma Ying-jeou is Taiwanese) who pursue Taiwan and only Taiwan's interest. This would not be the case if Taiwan was China's 23rd province.

The only people a unified China benefits are the rich business people in Taiwan who if things go sour can leave Taiwan with their family and buy an investment visa in the US or Canada, the multinationals like UPS, and China. How would a unified China benefit a taxi driver in Ilan or a housewife in Hsin Ying?

And as a person with family members and friends in Taiwan and where I will hopefully one day return to permantely, yes this is an emotional issue to me.

666
Oh and Charles:

Are you the same fool that said the CCP in Chinese was "hua gong chan" and the strokes of each was 6 which means CCP=666? Let me clue you in on something. While in simplified Chinese (known as jian ti in Chinese) it would be 6 strokes for hua, gong and chan, but the Chinese term for CCP is Zhong Guo Gong Chan Dang not hua gong chan. Yes Hua is a word for China--the term hua is used in the name of the PRC and ROC (zhong hua ren min gong he guo and zhong hua min guo (zai Taiwan) but in this term zhong guo is used and not hua and in any event hua is rarely used alone except as an informal term for China such as in China Airlines "hua hang" as the informal for "zhonghua hangkong gongsi." Huahang being the national carrier of Taiwan. So the stroke counts in jian ti for CCP in Chinese would be 4, 8, 6, 6 and 9. So it would be 48669 not 666.


Correction as well
Sichuan has a population almost 3 times of Taiwan. I inflanted the population a tad bit.

In any event, China has 17 million births per year which is 76% of Taiwan's total population, still think Taiwan wouldn't get swallowed up in a unified China--democratic or not?


Akaqi
Also Known As Qina Intelligence

Re your "total tripe" and "intelligent comments"

The word 'China' came from the name of the First Emperor who named his kingdom 'Chin' (today's Communist Chinese spelling is 'Qin') and built the Great Wall about 2200 years ago. Since you AKAQI have called Hong Kong 'Xiang Gang' by using Communist Chinese spelling (pinyin), your 'China' should be spelled 'Qina'.

Communist Chinese do eat all kinds of tripe, pig's, chicken's and etc. Therefore my remarks about the beast cannot be 'tripe' since you could not take them.

Your postings have shown that you bear the beast mark and that you have been planted in the West by the Qina Secret Intelligence Service which have assigned you a side job to blog as an apologist for the Communist regime.

Your "intelligent comments" directed by Qina Intelligence Service are venomous and anesthetizing.

John, in Revelation 13, warned man that the 666 beast would masquerade "like a lamb" and speak "like a dragon".

There you are.

HOW?
Akagi,
I admire your strong will & I also agree that Taiwan has been treated like a valet boy or unwanted orphan, & used as a bargaining chip by various govs. of mainland China, US, & others for too long. Theoretical essays & loud speeches aside, how the poor Taiwanese can pull themselves out of the recycle bin? Very few nations gain independence without bloods in the past. Are you sure that Taiwanese are ready for a fight with PRC[your 'China']? Or just daydream that someday the kind Uncle will fight for her? Quite frustrate, isn't it?

KL, a realist

PS. Hate & ideal alone may not win the war. We may have to face reality sometimes in real world. Don't we?

to charles
I have only one thing to say, take your meds

Taiwan and pinyin
Charles:

China's English name does come from the name Qin which in Wade-Giles would be Romanized as Ch'in and was the name of the dynasty that unifed China in 221 b.c. under the "First Emperor" Qin Shi Huang. The Great Wall actually pre-dates the Qin as part of it was built during the Warring States Period, but Qin Shi Huang did build a great part of it, the wall was built off an on until the Ming--the impressive wall you see pictured in tourist photos, etc is the Ming wall built 1300 years after the Qin.

I use pinyin because I HATE TO DEATH Wade-Giles--it was developed by two Britons and it is a terrible terrible Romanization system. Pinyin was developed by the communists and one of the few things they got right--it is an excellent Romanization system, is the international standard for Chinese Romanization and today is used in Taipei city on the street signs. The only reason Taiwan doesn't develop it country wide is for political reasons. Now I would post my Chinese terms in Hanzi, but 1) TH can't display them and 2) few people could read them.

And Charles you are a nut. If you want to be consistent, if I used Xiang Gang for Hong Kong, I should use Zhong Guo or Zhong Hua Ren Min Gong He Guo or Zhong Hua Min Guo (Zai Taiwan) for China, not Qina. Oh still going to explain how Zhong Guo Gong Chan Dang =666 based on stroke counts or how the CCP really should be Hua Gong Chan in Chinese? As a supported of the TSU and DPP, I don't see how I could be an agent of the PRC.

Tai Du
KL:

The vast majority of Taiwanese support status quo until at some point in the future the so-called Taiwan problem will be solved. I don't expect Taiwan's fickle friend (the US) to come to its aid. A formal declaration of independence would anger Taiwan's so-called ally the US, Taiwan would be blamed for any war with the PRC over independence and would be ruinous for Taiwan and the PRC and the region and quite possible cause Taiwan to be forcefully unified into China, thus I as most others support status quo now, and for me, independence at some point in the future. I am thus a supporter of pragmatic independence. You don't do anything to move toward unification, but you don't move to formal independence either. You lose the symbolic trappings of independence but you are still independent, until China is willing to drop its desire to have Taiwan as part of it, this is the best we can hope for.

And the PRC is not my China, it is China and the only China.

And ModMark:

As most Chinese support the eventual unification of Taiwan with China and are even more hardline on this than the government is a democratic China is not any more likely than the present regime to soften its stance on Taiwan's indepedence and in fact a democratic regime may even be more hardline in its approach as a government that retains power by the consent of the voters may be forced to play to the nationalist feelings of the populace. Public opinion forced the US into WWI, it could also force China into a war of unification. Don't look for democracy to necessarily solve this issue.




oh and KL?
Most countries in the world did not gain independence through war or bloodshed. Canada didn't, Australia, New Zealand, most countries in Africa, the majority of the countries that were part of the British and French Empires, while the US waged a brutal war against independence in the Philippines that took on the aspect of a war of extermination, the US gave them independence in 1946 with no war and no bloodshed and the same with Cuba in 1904.

Bloodshed and war only follow when one territory wants to leave and the rest of the country objects and is willing to fight to keep it--Algeria, Indochina, the United States, the Confederate States of America, Texas, Indonesia, Angola, East Timor, Mongolia and Tibet, etc. I must have missed the Jamacian War of Independence or the Belizian War of Independence.

Yes, if Taiwan was to declare independence today war or some sort of force by the PRC would no doubt follow, which is why only 20% in Taiwan or so support de jure independence today, but few support unification and most would be willing to fight to support Taiwan's de facto independence, just few are rash enough to support de jure independence while China objects. If China dropped its claims on Taiwan the vast majority would support de jure independence. You still didn't answer me how unification with China democratic or otherwise would benefit the majority in Taiwan.


And Charles
I know you aren't exactly the brightest bulb on the shelf, but why is it so hard to spell my name correctly. It is not Akaqi it is A-K-A-G-I. Aka meaning red and Gi when combined with Aka meaning castle (although in Hanzi the Kanji would be translated as walled city and not castle, but Japanese Kanji and Chinese Hanzi don't always agree 100% on meaning). Alone castle is Ki, but combined with Aka the sound changes to Gi--another annoying feature among other things of Japanese that makes it so difficult.

Oh and Revelations was written by John of Patmos about 100 a.d.--years after Christ's death and when the other books of the N.T. were written. It didn't become part of the Bible until centuries later and most consider 666 to refer to Nero not some future evil or a modern country like China.

Oh and dragons are mythical creatures...they don't exist. Oh and if the Bible is so good at prophecy, why was it the Soviet Union that so many prophetic Christians decades ago pointed to and now it is China..if they were wrong then, why should we think they are right now?




DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE 'DAI-WANN LANNG'!
Taiwanese businessmen, IT makers & agriculturists have already conquered a significant part of PRC's economy in a very short time. They would be equally good in the political arena in new free CHINA if reasonable time [say 30 to 150 years--I know, I know you may not be patient enough] & opportunity are given. Just because they have been treated as the second class citizens in the past, they would have to stay the same forever. Remember Obama? He might have a pretty good chance to govern the majority white America. Who would dare to dream that a black man would have challenged white folks to tears[almost] back in, say, 1860 or even 1960?

My dear friend: Widen your vision, set aside your emotion & 'R R BA', say no more 'Zong Gou Tsoo Goon Whay Chi', open your heart & arm, be brave as well as more aggressive, be patient and NEVER SAY NEVER. TIEN YO TAIWAN & AKAGI! Welcome HOME & come see your newly conquered CHINA!! I hereby rest my case.

KL

You did
The Chinese in the Philippines control its economy too as they do in places like Malaysia, Indonesia and a good part of Tahiland--their political power in these societies is zero.

You still have yet to answer me how a Taiwan unified with China and with 2% of the population would have political power.

And if you are going to write Chinese (if that is what it was), can you please write it in a Romanization system someone can actually have a hope at understanding.

China is not my home, it may be yours, but it is not mine. And you did rest your case, you simply failed to prove your case...resting your case and proving your case are not the same thing.


Akaqi and the like
Mr. Akaqi's name is Akaqi. The M-word is not your name. Likewise the name of the Chinese Communist Party is "Chinese Communist" and the p-word is not its name. Thus, the Chinese word "dang" (for "party") is not a name for ChiCom.

Again, the Chinese word "guo" (meaning kingdom or country) is not a specific name. The Chinese name for the country of China has been changing from "Ch'in" ("qin"), "Han", "Tang" to "Ming" and "Qing", and the Chinese began to use the abbreviated name of "zhong" only after 1912 when "Zhong Hua Min guo" (Republic of China) was formed. Communist China renamed the country to "zhong hua ren min gong he guo" (PRC) but plagiarized the abbreviated Chinese name of ROC.

The one single word meaning "China" or "of China" is not "Qin", "Ming", "Qing" nor "Zhong", but "Hua". The term "nations of Hua & Xia" (Hua Xia min zu) has been used throughout all generations to mean "peoples of China". Even today "Hua ren" and "Hua yu" are commonly used to say "Chinese folks" and "Chinese language" in Chinese.

Therefore, "Hua gong chan" stands for "Chinese Communist" and the number of the NAME of the beast is 666.

Class dismissed.

Sorry, Prof. Akaqi
Sorry for misspelling your name & thank Charles for correction. Please don't be so upset. Now, let's be calm & serious:

By 2501 there might be no such thing as 'NATION' anymore. The entire globe becomes very, very small & ends up being a tiny village--'Global Village'. The commoners [= mankind - power & money hungry people = mankind less politicians & greedy mongers = 95% (MOL) of mankind] are extremely intelligent, well informed & absolutely impossible to be fooled, brainwashed and manipulated again by politicians, thanks to the new version of Super Internet, Google, (near) Light speed Transit Networks around the VILLAGE & many other high tech inventions. Politicians become street people because they have no other skills to make a living & no more NATION(S) to run with.

Then, who cares about being an independent Taiwan, one China, two-China, me Taiwanese & you Chinese, or....? We are the world, the world is one VILLAGE, the silly 'NATIONS' & the man-made boundaries vanished and the power hungry crooks beg on streets. What a wonderful life in a beautiful VILLAGE!!!


NEVER say NEVER please, my dear Prof. Akaqi.

KL, a born Dai Won L'aon [I try, I try, Prof.] in Singapore

A few things
Oh KL...A Singaporean, the waterboys for the PRC--I should have known.

And Charles:

The term Zhongguo dates to the 6th century b.c. when it was used to describe the late Zhou dynasty. And yes Hua does also mean China as does Han so you have words like Hanzi and Huaqiao and Huayu. That doesn't change the fact that "hua" is not used in the term CCP.

But even if the name Zhongguo was invented today it would not change the fact that the name of the CCP in Chinese is Zhong Guo (meaning China), Gong Chan (meaning Communist) and Dang (meaning party) and thus the term is Zhong Guo Gong Chan Dong and the strokes are again 4, 8, 6, 6, 9...or 48669, not 666. You might also note the hua and chan in fanti has many more than 6. Hua has 12, Gong has 6 and Chan has 11 strokes so it would be 12611 not 666, but the fact is that the that is not the term used for CCP. If the term party is not part of the term for CCP, what does the P stand for then? What is the M-word?

If you could input Chinese into a search engine as I can, do a search for the term "hua gong chan" and see how many hits you get. In Yahoo..11 hits...now try Zhong Guo Gong Chan Dang...2.1 million, now which is the most accurate term?

As for class, you obviously don't understand either Chinese history or the Chinese language...I am not the person you want to debate on the topic of China, Taiwan or the Chinese language...find easier prey...idiots who may be stupid enough to think you know anything.

States
KL:

I agree if there is no such thing as states in 2501, the Taiwan issue won't matter any longer, but states matter now and thus the Taiwan issue does matter now. If you think unification with China is such a good idea, why don't you Singaporeans ask China to annex you...we won't object in the least.

By the way, how is China's prostitute, Lee Kuan Yew (Li Guang Yao) doing these days?


NOW, NOW. DON'T GET ANGRY, PROF. A
Before Japanese took over Dai Wa'nn in 1895, they researched on Taiwan extensively & noticed one fact which scared them most, i.e.:

Most of the Taiwanese are very H'aan which means roughness, short temper, love to use their fists instead of mouths or brains, & quite narrow minded.

More than a century later they are still the same with little improvement even for those who have been well educated by the civilized world. Just look at you, my dear Professor!

By the way, I am not a WATERBOY. I am a pure, 100% DAI W'AN LA'ANG born in DAI W'AN--the 16th generation in DAI W'AN perhaps.

Hate & narrow mind are two of the main blocks for Taiwanese to move forward onto the international scene. Please try harder to learn from other civilization. I can sense you have good potential in making great contributions for your beloved motherland. Welcome home and don't just hiding in that comfortable air-conditioning office with heavy glass ceiling over your head.

KL

PS. If you could, please tell your friends don't over charge Taiwan for those outdated, unwanted arms all the time. Next time please sell at 75% off less kickbacks. Then and only then the voiceless Taiwanese might not mind to stay status quo as long as they wish to dump their surplus arms inventory to this orphanage. Would you please help?!

If...
If you are a Singaporean, you are a waterboy. If you are Taiwanese you are as they say in Guoyu..hanjian. You can decide which is better.

And Taiwan which in 1949 was a poor, agricultural country and now is the 16th richest country based on per capita GDP in the world. Taiwan has more Ph.Ds per capita than any nation on earth, and has a virtual monopoly in the chips industry, Taiwan seems to use its brains quite well. Want to compare Taiwan's development to China--most of which hasn't changed much since the Tang Dynasty.

My friends? The US you mean? I don't consider it my friend. You know the Chinese, kou mi jian fei...I find it duplicitous and fickle. The F16s and other weapon systems are outdated compared to the US weapons, but not so vis-a-vis the PLA. What would you rather by flying...a J-8 or a F16C?

But yes, I think the US overcharges Taiwan for the weapons. It gives better deals to people like the Saudis, but since the US is probably the only country that will usually sell Taiwan weapons, what choice do you have?

"Then and only then the voiceless Taiwanese might not mind to stay status quo as long as they wish to dump their surplus arms inventory to this orphanage. Would you please help?!"

I don't understand this at all..care to translate this for me.

Oh and KL?
If you are Taiwanese, what party do you support? You sound like one of those NP fools.


Only 2 left on this site?! Why?
...and these 2 might belong to those whom the Japanese were most afraid of prior to 1895. You know what.....

Re: "Then & only then........."

What I meant was: If the nice Uncle does not treat Taiwan like a fool, or yes man, all the time (i.e. to sell the out of season goods at big discounts as he did to others), Taiwanese may not mind to stay as is & let him dump his unwanted surplus there. Otherwise, some Taiwanese may get too mad to take it anymore & decide to do the following, after votes of course:

[1] To take chance to declare its independence even with ugly bloodshed; or

[2] To join PRC & help her to become a free land for anyone wishing to live there.

Re: Which party?

I don't support any party because I distaste having it. Party is formed by a bunch of people who generally have no other useful skills to make a decent living. Party is no different from B'ang Pai, gangsters group. The only difference is one with legal license & the other without, just like lawyer vs. thief. Mathematically, Party v. B'ang Pai = Politician v. Gangster = Lawyer v. Thief = Religion v. Brainwash, etc. So don't be fooled by them! Be yourself & believe in yourself. That's why we are here for.

May I go now? Prof.

KL, NP[no party], NR[religion], NN[nation], NB[boundary], NH[hatred],...,Just a member of the globe.

Taiwan
I don't expect to see the status quo change..in my life time or even in my children's lifetime.

So what you will have is Taiwan independent without being independent in words, but independent in fact.

"NP[no party], NR[religion], NN[nation], NB[boundary], NH[hatred],...,Just a member of the globe."

In other words depending on your point of view..a blind idealist or a complete fool.

Why only two, because we are the only two that cares. Most Americans couldn't find Taiwan on the map if their lives depended on it...a good number of Americans can't even find the US on a map. And those that can don't care.


FAREWELL!
So long, my dear professor.
Take care of yourself. Taiwan needs you!! Hope to talk to you somewhere sometime & wish you find a new pen pal soon. It's getting lonely just two of us left here because of you. You chased everybody away!! Try to polish your edges a little, at least try.

KL, An accidental tourist just passing by.

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