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Thursday, November 22, 2007
Hank  Adler :: Townhall.com Columnist
A Hard Look At The Fair Tax
by Hank Adler
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This presentation is intended to review and raise issues with respect to Federal legislative proposal H.R. 25 (109th): Fair Tax Act of 2007, the “Fair Tax”. Because the title of the proposed legislation prejudices the discussion, this presentation refers to this proposed legislation as H.R. 25.

 

Summary of H.R 25:

 

*       Elimination of all Federal individual and corporate income taxes, payroll taxes, and the Federal estate and gift taxes

 

*       Implementation of a tax exclusive flat rate national sales tax of 30% on all goods and services sold at retail (ensuring that goods and services are only taxed a single time).[1] Exports would be exempted from the national sales tax. Property purchased for investment would be exempted from the sales tax. Retail purchases of goods and services by government would be subject to the 30% sales tax.

 

*       The flat rate national sales tax would be administered by agencies organized in the individual states, sales tax administrating authorities. If a state or states choose not to administer the flat rate national sales tax, the Federal Department of the Treasury would become the sales tax administrating authority in such states. In all events, Treasury would have general rule making responsibilities.

 

*       All lawful residents would receive a monthly “prebate” intended to be equal to the sales tax on cumulative expected monthly purchases at the poverty level. Unlawful residents would not receive the prebate. The prebate would be paid by the Social Security Administration acting upon information provided by sales tax administrating authorities.

 

*       H.R. 25 significantly revises the definition of self employment income for social security benefit calculation purposes.

 

 

H.R. 25 – Conclusions

  • With all of its complexity, the current Internal Revenue Code is a more evenhanded approach to collecting necessary Federal revenues than H.R. 25. This is not to say that the author believes the current Internal Revenue Code is the right long term answer for the United States; it is to say that H.R. 25 is not the right long term answer.

 

Impacts on Taxpayers

  • H.R. 25 eliminates any differential in the rate of taxation between the first dollar purchase over the poverty line by low income Americans and the last dollar purchase by the richest Americans.
  • In any state where there is a decision to eliminate their state income tax, the combined Federal, State, and local flat sales tax rate could easily exceed 43%.
  • H.R. 25 would result in an immediate reduction in purchasing power upon implementation for existing savings which have previously been subject to U.S. income taxes (double taxation).
  • H.R. 25 would result in a very significant competitive purchase price advantage given to an investor purchasing a new residence over a couple wishing to purchase the same property as a home.
  • H.R. 25 would result in an on-going and significant reduction in purchasing power for many social security recipients with other sources of income or savings.
  • H.R. 25 would result in the elimination of the safety net provided by the Internal Revenue Code in reducing Federal taxes for victims of disease and disaster, the elimination of incentives to save through pension plans or investment retirement, and the elimination of credits and deductions for child care.
  • H.R. 25 would result in an increase in purchasing and investing power for very high wage earners and the ability of the wealthy to earn profits from investments and reinvest without taxation while low income Americans are paying an H.R. 25 designated 30% Federal sales tax on food. The ability of the wealthy to pass along exceptional levels of never taxed wealth, tax-free, generation to generation, seems a prescription for a feudal system.
  • Under H.R. 25, while there could be a reduction of compliance requirements for wage earners and retirees, compliance activity for the self-employed and service providers would increase. If a state did not eliminate their state income tax, there would be no compliance reductions for wage earners or retirees.

 

Impacts on Social Security Benefits – Self Employed

  • H.R. 25’s proposed change in the definition of self employment income for the ultimate receipt of social security benefits is bizarre, unfair and unworkable. Under the language of H.R. 25, many self employed individuals currently earning social security benefits would no longer be earning any social security benefits.

 

Administrative Decisions & Impacts

  • H.R. 25 anticipates that virtually every state will willingly agree to become a sales tax administrating authority.  Given the proposed fee for this administrative task and the political risk that would accompany this decision, it is possible that not a single state would decide to become a sales tax administrating authority.
  • The administration required to implement and thereafter continuously administer H.R. 25 might be beyond the capability of Federal and state government. It may also be far more expensive than administration of the current Internal Revenue Code. (The proposed collection fees alone under H.R. 25 approximate the total annual budget for the Internal Revenue Service.)

 

The very notion of initially and annually registering 300,000,000 lawful citizens, providing a monthly check to each and believing this can be accomplished confidentially, efficiently and without fraud has at least a touch of unreality to it.

 

H.R. 25 could not be implemented until (1) a sales tax administrating authority was established and successfully organized and staffed in every state, (2) every lawful resident given a legitimate social security card, (3) every lawful resident registered confidentially and without fraud, and (4) this information transferred to the Social Security Administration and reviewed for duplicate social security numbers and general fraud issues.

 

 

Economic Certainty & Likely Economic Impacts

  • The economic risks, particularly in the immediate aftermath of implementation, are far too significant to the overall economy to chance.
  • There are conflicting studies projecting the necessary tax rate required to achieve neutral tax revenues under H.R. 25.
  • There have been no micro-economic studies with respect to the impact of H.R. 25. The lack of study with respect to the prices of high volume, low margin products (food) is especially worrisome.
  • Taxing state and local governments on their purchases and providing no interest rate advantage to state borrowings must result in significant tax increases at the state level.
  • Basic tax planning that would occur in the final year of the Internal Revenue Code and the first year of H.R. 25 would reduce Federal revenues by a very significant amount.

 

 

Legal Uncertainty

  • H.R. 25 is fraught with legal uncertainty. There are constitutional arguments that H.R. 25 would be unconstitutional with respect to constitutional limits of Federal taxing power.
  • There would be state and local challenges with respect to the exclusion of unlawful residents from the receipt of the prebate.
  • The World Court could probably weigh in with respect to trading issues.

 

Other

  • With every major conceptual change, there will be thousands of different interpretations of the rules. It would take years to sort these interpretations out. During that period, Treasury would issue volumes of rules and regulations.
  • The opportunity for Social Security fraud would increase with respect to actual employment.
  • Should U.S. products begin to appear in the world market place at prices significantly lower after the removal of Federal income taxes, tariff responses could be expected.
  • With exports untaxed, U.S. goods could be 30% more expensive for Americans than the remainder of the world.

 

 

 

H.R. 25 – Intended Results & Apparent Philosophy of H.R. 25

 

H.R. 25 would replace the Federal income tax, payroll taxes and the estate and gift taxes with a flat rate national sales tax. After reimbursing (in advance) lawful citizens for the estimated sales taxes levied upon the dollar value of estimated necessary retail expenditures at the estimated national poverty level, all lawful citizens would pay a flat rate national sales tax on all purchases of retail goods and services. Unlawful citizens would not receive a prebate.

 

H.R. 25 represents a philosophy of tax collection without any attendant social or economic policies.


 

H.R. 25 – Purchasing Power vs. the Tax Rate

 

There has been a significant amount of discussion regarding the proposed sales tax rate in H.R. 25.

 

H.R. 25 proposes a 23% “tax inclusive” sales tax rate. Sales taxes are not traditionally described in a “tax inclusive” manner. Sales taxes are traditionally described in a “tax exclusive” manner. A “tax inclusive” sales tax rate is a percentage of the total register price. A “tax exclusive” sales tax is a tax calculated on the purchase price before the tax is added. As shown below, a 23% “tax inclusive” sales tax rate is equal to a traditionally described “tax exclusive” sales rate of 29.87013%.

 

 

H.R. 25 Tax Inclusive Rate:

 

Purchase Price With Tax

$129.87

Tax - 23% of "Register" Price - Tax Inclusive Method

29.87

Purchase Price of Product Without Tax

$100.00

 

 

 

 

 

 

Equivalent Tax Exclusive Rate:

 

Purchase Price of Product Without Tax

$100.00

Tax - 29.87013% of Purchase Price - Tax Exclusive Method - Traditional

29.87

Purchase Price With Tax

$129.87

 

 

 

This paper refers to the tax rate as proposed in H.R. 25 as 30% (rounding 29.87013% to 30%) so that the tax rate may be more accurately compared and contrasted with other sales tax rates which are traditionally described on a tax exclusive basis. Using the traditional “tax exclusive” rate of 30% will neither increase nor decrease the tax shown for any transaction; it provides only clarity in presentation.


 

 

The important point of this discussion is not to dwell on the appropriate description of the tax rate, but to understand the impact of H.R. 25 on purchasing power. The following chart contrasts the purchasing power to the individual buyer of his or her purchasing dollars of (1) H.R. 25 on income previously taxed under the current Internal Revenue Code, (2) the current Internal Revenue Code using three separate average tax rates, and (3) H.R. 25 on income after the implementation of H.R. 25:

 

                                               Purchasing Power                   Purchasing Power             Purchasing Power

                                                     Of Dollars                              Of Dollars Earned               Of Dollars Earned

                                                Earned & Saved                              Under The                             Under

                                           Before Implementation               Internal Revenue Code                H.R. 25

 

 

Federal

Federal

Federal

Federal

Federal

 

 

Tax-Rate

Tax-Rate

Tax-Rate

Tax-Rate

Tax-Rate

 

 

15%

34%

15%

23.00%

34%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pre-H.R. 25 Earnings

$1,000

$1,000

 

 

 

 

Federal Taxes Paid

150

340

 

 

 

 

Cash At Implementation

850

660

 

 

 

 

H.R. 25 Tax on Purchases

195

152

 

 

 

 

Purchasing Power

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Current Gross Income

 

 

$1,000

$1,000

$1,000

$1,000

Federal Taxes Paid

 

 

150

230

340

230

Purchasing Power

$655

$508

$850

$770

$660

$770

                                   

 

 

Calculating the impact on an individual’s purchasing power is difficult because every Federal income tax return is different and average rates of tax can be difficult to calculate. To determine relative purchasing power of future income and receipts one needs determine the gross income of the individual and actual purchases at retail. Individual calculations for the impact of H.R. 25 would require the following analysis:

 

 

                Total Gross Income From All Sources                              Total Gross Income From All Sources

                Including Social Security, Insurance                                Including Social Security, Insurance

Reimbursements, Tax Exempt Income, etc.                      Reimbursements, Tax Exempt Income, etc.

 

                Less:                                                                                       Less:

Federal Income Taxes & Federal Withholding                H.R. 25 taxes on Retail Purchases of Goods

Taxes                                                                        & Services (calculated with either a tax   inclusive rate of 23% or a tax exclusive rate
of 30%)                                            

 

                Purchasing Power - Current Law                                       Purchasing Power - Under H.R. 25                                   


 

The concept of purchasing power vs. raw data clearly confuses the strongest supporters of H.R. 25. The following is copied from the Fairtax.org website:

 

The FairTax benefits retirees who depend mostly on Social Security.

For older, low-income households, the FairTax generates a major reduction in remaining lifetime taxes. Again, the reason is that the elderly not only continue, under the FairTax, to receive the same real Social Security benefits, they also receive the FairTax prebate. The average Social Security benefits for a retired couple living solely on Social Security are $18,776. The FairTax prebate for this couple is $4,697 which is $381 more than the FairTaxes the couple would have to pay if they spent the entire $18,776 on taxable consumption.

 

Every word of the above paragraph is accurate. However, the inference that the result is good for this retired couple is incorrect. Under H.R. 25, the purchasing power of the retired couple referred to in the example is actually decreased under H.R. 25 from $18,776 to $18,704.

 

Per Fairtax.org Website

 

 

 

 

Social Security

$18,776

 

Purchases Possible With $18,776

$18,776

Prebate

4,697

 

H.R 25 Tax

4,316

Total Income

$23,473

 

Purchasing Power of $18,776

$14,460

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Prebate

$4,697

 

 

 

H.R 25 Tax

4,316

 

 

 

Excess Prebate

$381

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comparison of Purchasing Power

 

 

 

 

Current Law:

 

 

H.R. 25

 

Social Security

$18,776

 

Social Security

$18,776

Prebate

0

 

Prebate

4,697

Purchasing Power Under Current Law

 

 

Total Revenues

$23,473

   Without the Prebate

$18,776

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Purchase Price With $23,473

$23,473

 

 

 

H.R 25 Tax

5,399

 

 

 

Purchasing Power of $23,473

$18,074

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reduction in Purchasing Power

$702

 

 

 

Percentage Reduction in Purchasing Power

3.74%

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note that if this retiree is also spending funds from savings, the reduction in purchasing power is enhanced under H.R. 25.


H.R. 25 - Impacts

 

Impacts on Taxpayers

  • Analysis of the comparative impact at and after the implementation of H.R. 25:

 

*       At implementation, existing savings will have diminished purchasing power of 30%.

*       At implementation, high earning citizens with deferred income from such items as pension plans and stock options would have immediate increases in purchasing power.

*       At implementation, investors would have the ability to sell investment assets without Federal taxes. The proceeds of such gains would be immediately available for reinvestment without any Federal tax consequence.

*       At implementation, citizens would be able to make unlimited gifts without tax consequences and estates of any size would be able to be passed from one generation to the next without Federal taxation.

*       At implementation, all of the social and business incentives, benefits and disincentives included in the Internal Revenue Code disappear:

*        Incentives

  •       Home interest deduction – encouraging home ownership
  •       Individual retirement plans, self employed pension plans, pension plans for businesses – encouraging saving for retirement
  •       Contribution deductions - encouraging contributions to charity
  •       Adoption credits – encouraging adoption
  •       Lower tax rate on capital gains - encouraging investment
  •       Lower tax rate on dividends - encouraging investment
  •       Energy credits – encouraging protection of the environment
  •       Research & development credits – encouraging research & development

*        Benefits

  •       Deduction – casualty losses – lessening taxes after calamity
  •       Deduction – medical expenses – lessening taxes during serious illness
  •       Deductions & credits – child care costs – making it possible for parents to earn a living and feed their families
  •       Credits – foreign tax credit – ensuring that Americans working abroad are not double taxed on their income
  •       Reduced tax rate - social security income – lessening taxes for elderly

*        Disincentives

  •       Loss of deduction – excess corporate compensation

 

*       At implementation, those individuals who have deferred income from Federal income taxes and who would be subject to estate taxes upon receipt of those funds or death, would permanently avoid those taxes

*       Ongoing, many, if not most, retired individuals receiving social security and currently paying Federal income taxes or spending cash savings would have diminished purchasing power.

*       Ongoing, for high income earners and the very wealthy, it would be virtually impossible for there not to be a reduction in Federal taxes  

*       Ongoing, the purchase of a home built after implementation of H.R. 25 would cost 30% more for a family than an investor.

*       Ongoing, existing alimony agreements would become a serious problem. Such agreements contemplate increased buying power for the payor of alimony through tax deduction and decreased purchasing power for the recipient through the payment being taxable income.

 

  • For many individuals, the compliance requirements of H.R. 25 would be significantly increased. Service providers, investors owning property, and people performing part time jobs would be required to file monthly sales tax reports with the sales tax administrating authority.

 

Impacts on Social Security – Benefits Calculation For Self Employed Individuals

·         H.R. 25 modifies the definition of self-employment income:

 

Gross payments received for taxable property or services

Less: Gross payments made for taxable property or services (without regard to whether tax was paid pursuant to section 101 on such taxable property or services)

Less: Wages paid by the self employed person to employees of the self-employed person

Self Employment Income

 

*       Self employment benefits would be calculated differently for the self-employed following implementation of H.R.25. Income calculated in a traditional manner would no longer be the basis for social security benefits for the self employed.

*       Self-employment income for social security purposes would exclude all self-employed individuals who are selling non-taxable products or delivering non-taxable services, resulting in a total loss of social security benefits

*       Self employment benefits would decline should a self-employed individual purchase equipment for the underlying business, thus discouraging the self-employed from investing in their businesses, a concept clearly at odds with any steps designed to expand the economy

 

Administrative Decisions & Impacts

 

  • Analysis of Administrative & Political Issues At the State Level

 

*       Each State would be faced with a series of difficult decisions with respect to whether it chooses to become a sales tax administrative authority and/or makes changes to its own method of taxation. Each of these decisions would include both political and financial implications. There is no assurance that a single state would determine to become a sales tax administrating authority. Where a state determines not to become a sales tax administrating authority, the Federal government would assume that role.

*       In states that determine to eliminate their existing income taxes and piggyback these revenue requirements on the new national sales tax, sales tax rates could exceed 43%. (In a California city with a current sales tax of eight percent, if California terminated its income tax and substituted a new flat rate state sales tax of 6%, the combined local, state and H.R. 25 rate would approximate 44%.)

*       In states that determine to maintain their existing state income taxes, there would be no reduction in compliance activities regarding the income tax and there would be increased compliance requirements under H.R. 25. The administrative costs of maintaining an income tax at the state level without the existence of a Federal income tax would be very substantial.

*       Because H.R. 25 requires state and local governments to pay the national sales tax and because the states would lose their ability to borrow funds at favorable tax exempt rates, it is possible that state legislators would have no interest in doing anything to make the process of implementing H.R 25 easy.

 

Economic Certainty & Likely Economic Impacts

  • The Federal government will lose its ability to influence the economy or individual behavior through modest or significant changes in the Internal Revenue Code.
  • The application of H.R. 25 to purchases by state and local governments would increase the costs of state and local governments and require an increase in state and local taxes.
  • The loss of the rate advantage available to state and local government in issuing tax-exempt bonds would increase the costs of state and local government and would require increases in state and local taxes.
  • At implementation, there would be immediate impacts on pricing and disintermediation in certain markets. Prices on high volume, low margin items, such as food, would likely increase dramatically.
  • At implementation, foreign buyers of American retail products would have a 30% competitive price advantage over Americans.
  • Tax planners would legally, easily, successfully and materially reduce Federal income tax revenues in the year precedent to implementation of H.R. 25 and successfully reduce Federal national sales tax revenues in the year following implementation.
  • With H.R. 25 eliminating the Internal Revenue Service two years after implementation of H.R. 25, it can be projected that auditing of tax returns for the final year of the current Federal income tax would be very low. Therefore, it can be projected that fraud by both non-filing and enhanced fraudulent deductions or unreported income would be greatly enhanced.
  • That a national sales tax rate of 30% would produce revenues equal to the revenues produced by the existing income, payroll, estate and gift taxes is unproven.
  • Ongoing, there will be a significant incentive to spend money in other countries; there would also be a significant incentive to leave retail purchases in other countries. There would be a significant incentive for individuals buying second homes to locate those homes outside the United States and avoid the 30% national sales tax on that purchase. There would be a significant incentive to make retail purchases in other countries and not report their use upon bringing them into the United States.
  • Large retailers would be required to post bonds of 1.5 times their average monthly sales tax liability, amounts well beyond the financial capabilities of some businesses.

 

Legal Uncertainty

·         Proceeding with a new form of Federal taxation without a constitutional amendment to assure that the methodology is constitutional would be foolhardy. Without a constitutional amendment, surely to be challenged under the Constitution is the ability of the national government to tax purchases by the states. Challenges might also be offered on constitutional grounds with respect to the ability of the national government to impose a national sales tax and the exclusion of illegal residents from receiving the prebate.

·         State & local legal issues could be raised including the relationship of taxing authorities with Immigration Customs & Enforcement. Would the state sales tax authorities attempt or be required to inform Immigration Customs and Enforcement of the location of families which included unlawful residents.  Challenges might arise with an interpretation of the law to be effectively requiring national identity cards.

·         State and local legal issues might be raised as to the propriety of providing prebate benefits to legal residents who are not citizens.

·         There could be a plethora of international legal issues including treaty enforcement and unfair trade issues.

 

Other

·         Charging a sales tax on purchases by the Federal government and subsequently paying two levels of administrative fees to collect this tax would increase the cost of Federal purchases by the ½% fees.

·         With the elimination of payroll taxes and income taxes, adding employees to payroll lists for purposes of increasing individual social security benefits would come without cost to employers. The Social Security Administration is neither staffed nor sufficiently experienced to audit for such issues.

 

Impacts of H.R. 25 at Implementation

 

Immediate Loss of Buying Power – The current purchasing power of after-tax savings would immediately decline by 30%. Cash that would have purchased $1000 of goods and services would now only provide for $770 in purchases of retail goods and services.

 

Loss of assets – Any current holder of long term tax exempt debt would immediately sustain a dramatic decrease in the value of their assets. Without the tax-free advantages of state and local debt, new investors would dramatically discount the value of existing long term state and local debt.

 

Immediate Increases in Buying Power - For taxpayers with deferred ordinary income (various types of pensions, deferred salary plans, stock options etc.), there would be an immediate increase in purchasing power. Upon implementation, a corporate executive who is the holder of qualified stock options with a value of $2,000,000 would see an increase in purchasing power of over $200,000 after exercise of the options. Should that person choose to reinvest those funds, the increase in investing power would be $700,000.  (Under current Federal income tax law, the executive received the options without any taxation and with the expectation that upon exercise of the options, he or she would pay income taxes at ordinary income tax rates.)

 

For individuals with pension plans or investment retirement accounts, under the existing Internal Revenue Code, there are penalties as well as Federal income taxes if they take access to those assets before age 55. These penalties would disappear as the funds could be immediately accessed without Federal tax.  For individuals who receive the funds after age 55, the funds are currently subject to income taxes at the time of receipt. With implementation of H.R. 25, these individuals would be able to receive these funds, for which they had previously received a reduction in federal income taxes, tax-free. These taxpayers would also receive the earnings that these funds had previously generated without taxation.

 

Generational Wealth Increase – Accumulated wealth is currently taxed in the United States through the estate tax upon death and via the capital gains tax when assets are sold at a profit. With the current estate tax, there is no estate tax on net assets of $1,500,000 or less. The estate tax rate on net assets over $1,500,000 begins at 18% and rises to 45% until the taxable estate reaches $2,000,000. The estate tax rate increases to 46% on net assets over $2,000,000. With basic estate tax planning, a couple with assets of $3,000,000 escapes all Federal estate taxes. H.R. 25 would eliminate the estate tax in its entirety. The ability to move money from generation to generation is an issue

That should be more deeply considered.

 

For individuals that have invested in real estate for their entire lives, because of existing Federal income tax rules, many have never paid Federal income taxes on the appreciation of their assets. For these individuals, the only tax to which they would currently be subject is the inevitable estate tax.  Their increase in both buying power, investment power and the ability to pass wealth tax-free through generations explodes with the end of gift and estate tax.

 

For those with untaxed gains in investment assets, there would be an instant ability to generate gains and pay no Federal taxes prior to reinvestment of the proceeds. For example, assume a taxpayer purchased a stock in 1980 for $100,000 and that stock is now worth $500,000. Today, if that individual sold that investment, he would pay a Federal capital gains tax of 15%, $60,000. If the income tax were repealed, that person would have the entire $500,000 to reinvest.

 

None of these benefits would accrue to America’s low income taxpayers. 

 

Impacts of H.R. 25 - Ongoing

 

Prebate - H.R. 25 provides that all lawful residents receive a monthly check, a prebate equal to the Federal income taxes imposed on the expected retail purchases of an individual at the poverty level.

 

The prebate provides a national sales tax exemption at precisely the poverty level. H.R. 25 provides this prebate to all lawful residents regardless of income or wealth. No amount is provided for unlawful residents. Wealthy would receive exactly the same prebate as America’s poorest legal residents.

 

H.R. 25’s flat rate national sales tax rate, for a two adult household, would indirectly exclude taxation on $1700 of monthly retail purchases and services by delivering a monthly prebate check or making an electronic deposit of $391. For each additional member of the household, an additional $287 of retail purchases would be excluded resulting in an additional $67 monthly rebate amount.

 

All purchases of retail goods and services would be taxed at the national flat-tax sales rate of 30% with the expectation that the prebate amounts would be used for the purchase of necessities. There is no mechanism to ensure that the prebate would be spent on sales taxes for the necessities of the individual or his family. There would be no assurance that a child would not go hungry and the funds spent on books, drugs, alcohol or chocolate bars.

 

Impact on recipients of Social Security - Under current law, social security benefits for married couples are untaxed until the sum of their other taxable income (interest and other pensions) plus one-half of social security equals $32,000.  As income grows, up to 85% of social security can be taxed.

 

The purchasing power of a couple, totally dependent upon Social Security, receiving $18,776 of social security income decreases by 3.74% under H.R. 25. If that couple has other income, the impact of H.R. 25 is a further diminution of their purchasing power. Middle income retirees would see their purchasing power reduced significantly from their income and by a further reduction of 30% on any of their savings that are expended for retail goods and services. With respect to the taxes on their pre-H.R. 25 savings, these taxpayers would be subjected to double taxation at the Federal level. For many social security recipients, H.R. 25 decreases purchasing power.

 

Impact on High Wage Earners - At the highest income levels, current Federal income taxes approximate thirty percent (after deductions for state income taxes). If a hypothetical athlete or actor earns $50,000,000 from salary and endorsements, his or her approximate Federal income taxes would approximate $15,000,000. (Contrary to urban legend, it is virtually impossible to avoid this tax unless the athlete or actor is donating significant amounts to charity.) To pay the same amount of taxes with a national sales tax, the professional athlete or actor would need to make, after H.R. 25 sales taxes, retail purchases of over $38,000,000. It is axiomatic that an individual who already owns his home and a few favorite toys is unlikely to annually have this amount of retail purchases of goods and services. As a result, the high wage earner is going to have a dramatic reduction in Federal taxes paid and will have funds far in addition than under the current Internal Revenue Code to invest.

 

Impact of H.R. 25 on Relative Position of Home Buyer and Rental Residence Investor H.R. 25 provides that the purchase of a new home by a buyer with the intent of occupying the home for his or her family is subject to the flat rate national sales tax. H.R. 25 provides that an investor purchaser of that same residence would not be subject to the flat rate national sales tax. That taxpayer would charge his renters the flat rate national sales tax. The result is that the investor buyer would have a 30% price advantage in competing with the home buyer for new residential property. The purchase price for the investor would be $300,000; the young couple would pay $390,000.

 

Impact of H.R. 25 on Personal Tragedy – The current Federal income tax allows a deduction for casualty losses in excess of 10% of income and medical expenses in excess of 7.5% of income. Through these deductions, the taxpayer who has a casualty (Katrina / San Diego fire) effectively receives a deduction in his or her Federal taxes. Under H.R. 25, there is not a reduction in taxes and the citizen must pay an additional 30% sales tax on the lumber to re-build his home after a major fire and/or the wonder pill that is keeping his child alive. This is contrary to the historical spirit of America.

 

Tax Planning for H.R. 25 (and before)

 

Tax planners will be attracted to H.R. 25 like bees to honey.

 

In the initial planning to decrease taxable income in the final year of the current income tax system and in making retail purchases proceeding the first year of the national sales tax, tax planners would puncture expected Federal revenues in both years.

 

Final year of the Federal Income Tax - Every taxpayer in the Untied States would be attempting to do the maximum tax planning possible in the final year of the Federal income tax. Such efforts would include completely legitimate actions such as:

 

*       Prepayment of state and property taxes

*       Prepayment of contributions for the next year

*       Prepayment of medical expenses

*       Acceleration of any business expenses that might be deductible – maintenance, repairs etc.

*       Deferral of all sales of property where there would be a taxable gain. Anyone contemplating the sale of any property at a gain (including securities) would, if at all possible, wait until the Federal income tax was eliminated before executing the transaction. Transactions where the purchase would occur for the purchaser and the income would be deferred for the seller would be the item of the day

*       Deferral of salary and other income through the use of any device possible including Rabbi trusts, late payments of bonuses etc.

*       Maximization of depreciation methods

*       One particularly elegant tax planning device would be the legal payment to a self employed retirement plan. This payment is due on April 15th, at the time of filing the personal tax return. A taxpayer in the 34% tax bracket could make this payment, a maximum of $40,000 on April 15th and reduce his or her taxes by $13,600. On April 16th, that person could retrieve the money from their retirement plan tax-free.

*       Corporations would defer their dividends to avoid the income tax on their shareholders in the final year of the Internal Revenue Code.

*       The list, while not endless, would be very extensive and totally legal.

 

With the expectation of the demise of the Internal Revenue Service and a unique reduction in the number of audits by the Internal Revenue Service, there would be the expectation of increased fraud in the final year of the Internal Revenue Code.

 

After Adoption of H.R. 25 - For wealthy U.S. individuals, H.R. 25 would encourage them to purchase and keep assets overseas. There would be a 30% price advantage to a villa in Mexico or a castle in Ireland versus a second home in the United States. Other big ticket assets such as yachts etc. would also be best kept and purchased offshore.

 

Every possible ambiguity would be resultant in plans to avoid a national sales tax. The Treasury would need to continue to propose laws and write regulations to insure that the intended Federal revenues were collected. Tax lawyers and accountants would be there every step of the way to attempt to reduce, legally, their clients’ taxes.

 

Impacts on Social Security – Self Employed

 

Self employed individuals currently receive social security benefits based upon their self employment income. Self employment income for social security purposes is currently calculated in a manner identical to the calculation of taxable income for Federal income tax purposes. H.R. 25 calculates self employment income as gross payments for taxable property or services less the sum of gross payments for taxable property or services and wages.

 

This appears to be a mistake of significant proportion.

 

The application of H.R. 25, as proposed, would eliminate any consistency between the historical calculation of earnings from self employment and that required under H.R. 25. The proposed change in the rules could be viewed as inappropriate by both retirees and current self employed individuals. Any business that was selling products for re-sale would have no gross payments received for taxable property and therefore no self employment income, regardless of the business’s actual income. In a growing business, where the profits are poured back into the business to buy more equipment, the self employed owner would be garnering no social security benefits.

 

If self employment income was calculated in the traditional manner, the taxpayer would be required to calculate taxable income under the current Internal Revenue Code after implementation of H.R. 25. This would require the continuance of the Internal Revenue Code and the continuing requirement of a calculation of taxable income for the self employed. It would result in the promise of lesser compliance costs and the elimination of the Internal Revenue Code being inaccurate.

 

Administration Decisions & Impacts

 

The Administrative Processes - Requirements

 

It is uncertain whether the administrative tasks required by the Federal government including the Social Security Administration and the participating states can be accomplished in a timely and fraud free manner. It is uncertain whether the costs of implementing and administrating H.R. 25 would be less than, equal to, or greater than the current costs of the Federal government and the states of administrating the current Federal income tax. The costs of collecting the Federal taxes under H.R. 25 (1/2 of one percent) would approximate the entire 2008 budget of the Internal Revenue Service. With increased costs for the Social Security Administration along with the possibility of states attempting to preserve their state income tax codes, administrative costs of implementing the tax system could easily grow under H.R. 25.

 

There will be both increased and decreased compliance costs for individuals dependent upon their specific circumstances.

 

Sales Tax Administrating Authority

  1. The first administrative step in the process of implementing H.R. 25 is for the Federal government to enter into an agreement with interested states for the creation of individual sales tax administrating authorities. Included in these agreements with the states would be requirements including confidentiality, collection of the tax, and remittance of the tax. The collection fee paid to the sales tax administrating authority for the tax would be one-quarter of one percent of the amount remitted.
  2. Where a state agrees to become a sales tax administrating authority, the state would need to create a staff, develop software and find locations around their state to register lawful residents. The staffing for the original and continuing registration of all lawful residents would include significant numbers of one time and seasonal employees. Where the state did not determine to participate in the process, the Federal government would also need to go through the process of creating a staff, developing software and finding locations around the state to register lawful residents. The sales tax administrating authority would be responsible for collecting the tax and transmitting to the Federal government.
  3. The sales tax administrating authority would be responsible for auditing the payors, registrants and administrating the law.
  4. The Treasury would be responsible for creating the underlying paperwork for the sales tax payors and providing rules and regulations.

 

Social Security Administration

 

Social Security Numbers – The first step in the process of receiving the prebate is the receipt of a social security card. Social security cards are legally produced only by the Social Security Administration. The processing under H.R. 25 would be exceptional in that every lawful child of every illegal resident would be eligible for the prebate. The requirement of an unlawful resident applying for a social security card for his or her lawful children (born in the United States) is problematic. The relationship between the Social Security Administration and the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) would need to be vetted and clarified. The relationship between ICE and the sales tax administrating authorities would need to be vetted and clarified. As at least two of these entities would be Federal agencies, there could be enforcement opportunities with respect to immigration matters. This would be a serious issue in the United States Congress and many cities and states.

 

Social Security Administration – State sales tax authorities – information, systems, costs etc. – The system requirements of integrating information systems with fifty separate sales tax administrating authorities would be daunting and expensive. Each state would need to have a system that was integrated with the Social Security Administration and the Social Security Administration would need to be able to move payments from state to state as citizens moved from state to state.

 

The Social Security Administration relies upon the Internal Revenue Service to audit for fraud in the self employment context. The Social Security Administration relies on the requirement of payroll taxes to insure that extra individuals are not added to payrolls for the purpose of collecting social security benefits. Without the Internal Revenue Service and without payroll withholding, this dynamic of ensuring a fraud free social security system would be lost. An entire system of auditing and enforcement would therefore need to be developed and implemented by the Social Security Administration.

 

Prebate Administration Annual Registration and payments to 300,000,000 lawful residents

  1. After obtaining a social security number, every lawful resident would have to submit social security numbers and their family information to the sales tax administrating authority for the purpose of the sales tax administrating authority transmitting the information to the Social Security Administration for monthly payment of the prebate. The sales tax administrating authority would be responsible for ensuring that the applicants were legal citizens, signed various assertations about residence, and that there was sufficient information for the Social Security Administration to mail or electronically deposit the monthly prebate to the lawful resident.
  2. The Social Security Administration would be responsible for receiving the information from the sales tax administrating authority, ensuring the accuracy of the information (duplicate social security numbers etc.)  and timely sending the monthly prebate checks or making the electronic deposit.
  3. Each sales tax administrating authority would receive and transmit to the Social Security Administration changes to the residency, filings including family additions and subtractions, as well as changes of address etc. The information would be updated in perpetuity for births, deaths, changes in address, and marriages.
  4. Every lawful resident will be required to annually re-register with the sales tax administrating authority. Assurance that only lawful residents are registered and that no fraud was taking place would be very difficult to achieve. The very nature of large groups of one time and part time employees, which initial and annual registration would require, would exacerbate all levels of risk with respect to fraud and abuse. No state agreeing to be a sales tax administrating authority would have any reason to be concerned with the issue of unlawful residents. State sales tax authorities would have no incentive for accurately performing the registration task as for each unlawful resident considered lawful under H.R. 25, more funds would flow into the state economy.
  5. The initial and on-going costs of registering 300,000,000 citizens would be staggering. 

 

 

H.R. 25 Sales Tax Collection Administration

 

Collections State sales tax authority

 

The sales tax administrating authority would be required to register each seller in the state using federally produced forms, collect the funds from each seller each month and transfer the money less a one quarter of one percent fee  to the Federal government. The sales tax administrating authority would be charged with insuring that all sales taxes are paid and with auditing the payors. As discussed previously, the auditing task would include determining who owed use tax on items such as houses being converted from investment to personal use and whether houses were rented at fair market value to family members.

 

Administrative requirements – Taxpayers

 

Sellers of taxable goods and services would be required to report their sales and pay taxes at least monthly. These reports and payments would be made to the state sales tax administrating authorities. These reports would be required from sellers, including service providers and the self employed. There have to be serious issues with any expectations that small and individual, part-time service providers will comply with these rules. At the lowest income levels, there would be little hope for compliance and a belief that services provided by unlawful residents would result in payments under H.R. 25 would seem to be incorrect.

 

Wage earners – Each wage earner would be responsible for attaining social security cards for all legal residents of his or her home and annually registering the family with the sales tax administrating authority. These individuals would have a significant reduction in paperwork.

 

Self employed lawful citizens -

 

  1. Each lawful self employed resident would be responsible for attaining social security cards for all legal residents of his or her home and annually registering the family with the sales tax administrating authority.
  2. Before selling a product or delivering a product, every person liable to collect and remit taxes pursuant to H.R. 25 would be required to register with the sales tax administrating authority. This would include sellers of products and services for retail and investors owning property for rent.
  3. Annually, a filing would be required with the Social Security Administration with respect to self-employment income. A filing would also be required with respect to self employment income with respect to wages paid to third parties.

 

The Administrative Processes – The political decision making process

 

Would a State Agree to become a sales tax administrating authority?

 

The implementation of H.R. 25 in each state would require each state to make very significant and politically charged decisions. The timeliness of these decisions would determine the time line for possible implementation of H.R. 25. The delay of a single state in making its determination and entering or not entering into an agreement with the Federal government to be a sales tax administrating authority would slow the implementation date of the program. A national sales tax with only forty-nine states ready to begin operation is a non-starter. The implementation of H.R. 25 could only begin on a January 1st.

 

H.R. 25 assumes that each state would desire to administer the national sales tax (inclusive of its requirement to annually register every lawful resident). H.R. 25 assumes that the Federal and state governments are capable of registering every legal resident and delivering a monthly check or deposit to each legal resident with competence and fraud-free.

 

If this author were asked for a recommendation by any state as to whether that state should become a sales tax administrating authority, my opinion would be that there is dramatic downside and absolutely no upside to a decision to become a sales tax administrating authority. There is not a single compelling reason for any state to accept the responsibility of being a sales tax administrating authority. There is  no significant profit to be made by the state, and there is the possibility of a significant loss as the result of the initial and annual registration of lawful residents. There is the possibility of failure to accomplish a confidential and fraud free registration and the accompanying political and legal fallout there from. There is the possibility that simple participation in this process would have significant negative state-wide political consequences.

 

Would a state repeal its existing income tax?

Regardless of whether a state determined to be a sales tax administrating authority, the state would be required to consider whether it should or could continue to administer its own income tax. Without a state eliminating its own income tax, the promise of a reduction in compliance costs and activities for the residents of that state are lost. In states which continued their income tax, the residents would be required to complete state individual and corporate tax returns nearly identical to the current Federal income tax return along with beginning to comply with the requirements of H.R. 25.

 

Forty-five states and the District of Columbia have state income taxes. Virtually every state relies on the Federal income tax system in some major part to administer their state income tax system. Most state individual and corporate tax returns begin with the Federal taxable income of the individual or entity filing the state tax return. Most states refer directly and indirectly to the Internal Revenue Code, and Regulations and case law to provide much, if not all of their legal underpinnings for their law. All states with an income tax have arrangements with the Internal Revenue Service to share audit information and individuals and corporations audited by the Internal Revenue Service generally receive a state billing at the end of the Federal audit process be that with appeal to the courts or through negotiation and billing. Not all, but substantially all individual and corporate audits conducted in the United States are conducted by the Internal Revenue Service. State taxing authorities tend to audit only for state residency and state specific income tax laws.

 

Most states neither have the resources nor the tax expertise to adequately review complex transactions, multi-state or multi-national corporations or complex tax returns. To continue a state income tax system, each State would be required to administer their own law without Federal assistance. This would require recreating all of the elements of Congress, Treasury, Federal courts and the Internal Revenue Service to administer their state tax. If all forty-five states maintained their state income tax systems, the current costs of law, regulation and audit may be multiplied by as much as forty-five times. Further, as time ebbed, undoubtedly, each state would pass laws and rulings not consistent with other states and business and state courts would begin to adjudicate matters differently making the entire issue of complexity an entirely new matter for multi-state businesses. The costs of this would be dramatic.

 

Should a state abandon its income tax and add a new state sales tax to the sales under H.R. 25, sales tax rates would explode. Total sales taxes collected in some states on every retail transaction could easily exceed 43%. A hotel room in New York City with combined hotel tax, national sales tax, state sales tax and local sales taxes could have a total sales and hotel tax rate exceeding 50%.

 

Would a state change its state sales tax to conform to H.R. 25?

 

Currently, most states impose sales taxes, exempting particular items such as food. Today, many or most local governments also impose sales taxes, also exempting particular items such as food. H.R. 25 presents a cascading of issues for every legislature and local government body.

 

If a state sales tax currently exists, does the state or local government determine to tax everything as provided in H.R. 25 or will the state or local sales tax exempt items currently exempted? Continuing any differences would seriously impact the technology costs of all sellers of both Federal taxable and state non-taxable items. If the state elects to follow H.R. 25, that state could need or feel compelled to initiate its own prebate to ensure that the poor are not suddenly incurring a substantial unreimbursed increase in taxes on food etc. Perhaps, the Federal government would increase its prebate and surcharge the states in some manner for a state prebate. (This would result in different prebates in different states, opening the door to a plethora of issues surrounding equality of value as opposed to equality of prebate payment.)

 

If a state collects its disability and unemployment taxes from withholding, either it would have to require withholding on salaries, perhaps as the only withhold if Federal and state income taxes disappear, or determine a new methodology to collect such taxes.

 

Political Issues:

 

Economics for the State - Each state would need to determine whether one-quarter of one percent is a sufficient payment to administer H.R. 25. The dynamics of the decision are fairly robust. First, is there a profit to be made? If not, why would a state be interested in participating? (If the Federal government will come into the state, hire state residents, lease property in the state and buy local products, unless there is a significant profit to the state from becoming a sales tax administrating authority, there would be no compelling financial reason to become a sales tax administrating authority.) The decision with respect to whether a profit can be made for the state in deciding to become a sales tax administrating authority would include a full analysis of implementation costs. As the intial costs would be expended before the first dollar of tax collections, there might be a significant cash drain on the state from the implementation process. Politically, does the state wish to manage and deal with all of the issues of becoming the Internal Revenue Service in a much more visible way than their current state taxing activities?

 

Where a state determines to become a sales tax administrating authority and does not abandon their existing income tax, that state should have no interest in its requirement to provide and/or implement the auditing and enforcement provisions of H.R. 25. When an audit produces one quarter of one percent of any collections to the Federal government, the costs of virtually all audits will exceed the revenues to the sales tax administrating authority. With respect to determining the lawful status of a resident, there would be no revenues resulting from the audit process and therefore no benefit to the state from actively pursuing such audits.

 

Where a state determines to abolish its income tax and adopt the H.R. 25 methodology of taxing everything, there is an argument to be made to stay out of the Federal government’s business and simply consolidate its current tax authorities into one state agency and begin its new sales tax form with: Federal Taxable Retail Sales and Services. There are ample savings available to the state in this scenario.

 

State Decisions – unlawful residents - Lawful / Unlawful Citizens – One of the most contentious issues in the current political arena is the issue of the unlawful resident immigrant. H.R. 25 proposes to exclude unlawful residents from the “prebate”. In certain states and within certain areas of those states, the number and percentage of individuals who are unlawful residents is very significant. The number of families with both lawful and unlawful residents is also very significant and the resulting increased taxation of food and the basic necessities of life would be a serious issue to be confronted by these individuals and these individual states. There would be significant political pressure to have no part of a system that would increase taxes on the poor, lawful residents or unlawful residents.

 

While not politically correct to state, there is the possibility of social instability if prices are raised to the poor, regardless of a prebate or not. Certain areas of the country are populated by significant percentages of unlawful residents along with less economically advantaged lawful residents. This is a formula for isolated civil unrest issues following the implementation of new and significant sales taxes on food.

 

It is of interest that the prebate is intended for any lawful resident. As a result of this notion, all legal alien residents will receive the monthly prebate.

 

Undoing a state sales tax authority agreement – Based on the statutory language, it would be very difficult for the Federal government to “fire” a state that was not doing an adequate job as a sales tax administrating authority. Beyond that, the Federal government would be totally unprepared to take over the work for a sales tax administrating authority if it won such a battle.

 

Economic Certainty & Likely Economic Impacts

Macro-economics

This paper does not address the long term macro-economic impacts that would accompany the adoption of H.R. 25. Supply side economists argue that lower tax rates generally increase economic activity and therefore are good for everyone. As the express goal of H.R. 25 is to achieve a tax neutral result, the supply side economists should argue that the impact of H.R. 25 is neutral. This excludes the issues of increased state taxes resulting from H.R. 25 requiring the taxation of state government purchases and the loss of the advantage from tax exempt borrowing.

 

The impact of disintermediation of the short term macro-economic impacts should be deeply studied before there is any serious consideration of H.R. 25. Further data needs to be collected with respect to the volatility of the securities markets that H.R. 25 could create. The elimination of all Federal taxation of securities transactions would eliminate any potential for an investor to wait out a sudden drop in the marketplace because of income recognition and tax payment issues. This might or might not cause some level of instability in the securities markets.

 

One of the abilities lost in H.R. 25 is the ability of Congress to stimulate the economy through tax reductions in times of economic decline or malaise. This tool would be permanently lost with a passage of H.R. 25.

 

 


 

Tax Rate

There are conflicting studies with respect to the tax rate that would be required to achieve revenue neutrality with a flat rate national sales tax. The Arduin, Laffer & Moore Econometrics study supporting H.R. 25’s  “23% sales tax on all final consumption expenditures on new purchases” shows as follows:

 

                                        Revenues Raised in 2004 from Taxes Replaced by the FairTax Proposal

 

Tax Source

$Billions

Individual Income*

$809.0

Social Insurance Taxes

$733.4

Corporate taxes

$189.4

Estate and Gift Taxes

$24.8

Total Revenues Replaced

$1,756.6

Total Receipts

$1,880.1

Percentage of Total Receipts

93.4%

 

*Individual Income tax receipts include: Personal income taxes, Capital gains taxes, taxes on dividend income, and the Alternative minimum tax.

Source: Congressional Budget Office, Historical Budget Data, http://www.cbo.gov.

 

                                                           Estimated 2004 Revenues if the FairTax Proposal were in Effect

 

Description of Taxable Item

Tax Base (2004)

Personal consumption expenditures

$8,214.30

+ Purchases of new homes

$572.20

+ Improvements to Residential Structures

$147.00

- Imputed rent on housing

($904.70)

- Foreign travel by U.S. residents (one-half)

($91.60)

- Food produced and consumed on farms

($0.20)

+ Total Government Consumption

$1,843.40

+ Total Government Gross Investment

$372.50

- Education expenditures

($211.30)

+ Expenditures in U.S. by nonresidents

$96.60

Gross FairTax Tax Base

$10,038.20

Total Gross FairTax Revenues

$2,308.79

Estimated Prebate Value

$446.14

Total FairTax Revenues

1,862.65

 

 

 

Issues that should be raised here include: If the government is both paying and receiving the $1,843,400,000,000 of sales taxes on government consumption, should this amount be removed from the schedule? With the advantage being provided to investor-buyers of new residential housing (exemption from the 30% national sales tax), can the taxes being projected from the purchase of new homes be accurate? Are collection costs considered in the analysis? Many other questions need raising and discussion.  

 

The President’s Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform predicted that a national sales tax of 30% would result in more substantial tax evasion than occurs in the current Federal income tax system. This evasion could only be enhanced where states abolish their income tax structure and add their tax collection amount as an additional sales taxes to the 30% proposed under H.R. 25.

 

Cost of State Government

 

H.R. 25 would cause an immediate increase in the cost of state government. The 30% sales tax added to the cost of state purchases would increase state government costs by the amount of retail purchases, 30%.

 

H.R. 25 would result in the loss of economic advantage for state bonds which are issued tax free under the current Internal Revenue Code. There currently are approximately $1,800,000,000,000  in outstanding tax-free state and local debt. Assuming a 2% differential between the tax-free rate and other investment rates, this represents, over time, an increase of $36,000,000,000  in annual costs of local and state governments. There is also the concomitant impact to the value of existing bonds. This impact would be the immediate reduction in value of these bonds which in some cases could destroy the economics of many bondholders.

 

Exports

 

If a foreign buyer, not subject to paying U.S. taxes on U.S. exports, has a 30% price advantage over a U.S. purchaser, that buyer can afford to outbid the U.S. buyer and continue to pay a lower price. This is a problem for U.S. buyers.

 

Imports/Use Taxes

 

It is notoriously hard to collect use taxes. Taxpayers often consider use taxes as “for someone else”. Collection would prove very difficult.

 

Microeconomics

 

Empirically, high volume products with traditionally low margins would have resultant and instant price increases under H.R.25.

 

Safeway Corporation currently pays approximately 1% of its sales for its products in Federal income taxes. Without study of any other factors and assuming that there is very little in the way of U.S. income taxes paid by its suppliers in its costs (farmers do not generally earn dramatic profits from their products), to achieve the same after-tax profit with the elimination of the Federal income tax and the implementation of H.R. 25, Safeway would have to increase prices by about $ 11.5 billion dollars a year. This equates to an approximate 27% increase in the price of food. There are cascading impacts to this issue. At the poverty level, the rebate would be recalculated only annually resulting in any immediate disintermediation in prices of low margin, high volume items being born by purchasers for the first year. Beyond the poverty level, the increasing taxes on food would impact other purchasing decisions.

 

 

Legal Uncertainty

 

The likelihood of legal challenges in the court system to H.R. 25 is significant. These challenges could result in restraining orders with respect to the initially required administrative steps of implementation. A successful attack on H.R. 25 after elimination of the Federal income tax would be a national disaster. If there is any question as to its constitutionality, a constitutional amendment should be the form of this legislative change.

 

Constitutionality

Before enactment, at a minimum, a formal finding, available for public review and response by private legal counsel and special interest counsels, by the appropriate legal counsel representing the United States government should be released confirming the constitutionality of H.R. 25. Both the general concept of a national sales tax and the concept of a prebate limited to lawful residents and its enforcement plan should be fully vetted. The language of the sixteenth amendment to the constitution allowing taxation by income tax appears to have been written to provide explicit protection from Article One, sections 4 and 5 of the Constitution.

 

The recent Ninth Circuit of Appeals ruling disallowing the Federal government from using social security numbers as a methodology of policing immigration should cause anyone to give pause to the entire concept of the prebate being limited to lawful residents and the government’s ability to enforce such a provision.

 

Unlawful Residents

Courts could intervene on the issue of lawful residents being the only individuals being able to receive the prebate.

 

The sales tax collection requirement for an unlawful resident represents a significant dilemma. If the registration form asks for a social security number, the unlawful resident will be unable to obtain the correct paperwork to implement the national sales tax under H.R. 25. Those willing and desiring to obey this law, but who remain in the United States illegally would be unable to comply with H.R.25.

 

Other

 

Withholding - H.R. 25 eliminates withholding, the most effective manner of tax collection in the world. The current system of withholding would be lost to the Federal government by enacting H.R. 25

 

Fraud – There is ample academic research that tax fraud expands as sales tax rates go up. Tax fraud also logically expands as opportunities increase. Both are a concern under H.R. 25. For states that abandon their state income taxes, combined Federal, state and local sales tax rates could exceed 43%. This is sufficiently high for sales tax fraud to become rampant. The issue of performing a task as a local maintenance person etc. with a price of $500 cash or $650 with a credit card or check cannot be overlooked.

 

As there would be no requirement to pay payroll taxes, there would be incentive for fraud with respect to social security filings. Unless the Social Security Administration dramatically increased staffing, there would be little opportunity for the Social Security Administration to review payrolls from businesses which include family members who actually performed no work. These individuals would be added to the social security benefit lists. Adding a sister, daughter etc would be far too easy.

 

Elimination of the IRS – The plan to eliminate the IRS two years after passage of H.R. 25 would be a mistake. The IRS would need years to complete current audits and a full compliment of auditors would need to be available to audit the last year of the Internal Revenue Code or taxpayers would assume they could get away with anything. Completing their work would take about six years after the passage of H.R. 25.

 

General claims by H.R. 25  advocates & responses thereto

 

Proponents of H.R. 25 make the following claims (with responses in italics by the author):

  • H.R. 25 eliminates the Internal Revenue Service. – H.R. 25 replaces the Internal Revenue Service with fifty separate sales tax administrating authorities. The Treasury will create a new agency to administer the laws of H.R. 25. It is the tax collecting agency that people have hated for centuries, not the name thereof.
  • Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation – In the Internal Revenue Code, one person’s loophole is another person’s definition of fairness. Both the deduction for home interest and a specific credit to encourage research and development can be loopholes for one and intelligent social incentives for another. As people become knowledgeable about H.R. 25, tax planning strategies will develop and loopholes will be identified.
  • Ensures Social Security and Medicare Funding – H.R. 25 no more assures funding for social security and Medicare than the current Internal Revenue Code. H.R. 25 would collect the same revenue as the current payroll tax. Adequate funding for social security and Medicare remains dependent upon actions by Congress.
  • Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy – H.R. eliminates tax policy.
  • Allows American products to compete fairly – Trade policies are by their very nature, very fluid. To the extent that U.S. products begin to arrive in nations where they will ultimately be untaxed, it is safe to assume that trade barriers will be erected to restore the current balance of trade.
  • Reimburses the tax on purchases of basic necessities
  • Enables retirees to keep their entire pension check – This claim is disingenuous. While the pension check will not be subject to income taxes, the purchase of goods and services will be subject to a flat rate national sales tax on all purchases of retail goods and services. For individuals spending their pension check of good and services, this claim is without meaning.
  • Enables workers to keep their entire paycheck - This claim is also  disingenuous. While the pension check will not be subject to income taxes, the purchase of goods and services will be subject to a flat rate national sales tax. For individuals spending their pension check on goods and services, this claim is without meaning.
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About The Author

Hank Adler is an Assistant Professor at Chapman University.

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Fair Tax NOW!!
Power to the people!!

Fair Tax and Privacy
To me the most important reason why I LOVE the fair tax is privacy. The Federal Government has no business in knowing what I make to the last penny!! Liberals raise hell about wire tapping of terrorist conversations yet nobody says anything about the worst invasion of privacy of all, the federal income tax yearly personal financial proctology exam. Think about it. IMPLEMENT THE FAIR TAX NOW!!

fair tax
What are all these dumb bells crying about? "They will lose their mortgage deductins and charitable contribution deductions" Deductions from what? No income tax....nothing to deduct from. The government sould become whole again with every person spending, everyone will be paying into the government coffers. Nobody gets a free ride or cheats. Companies would flock to the US to do business because this would be the biggest tax free market place int the world. WAKE UP AMERICA!!!

Hank Alder's Impartiality
Hank Adler has spent most of his career earning a living because of the complexity of the tax code. HE IS BIASED.

From his bio:
----
Mr. Hank Adler is an Assistant Professor at Chapman University. He was in public accounting for almost thirty-four years, the last twenty as a top partner at Deloitte & Touche.

Mr. Adler serves on several corporate and community boards of directors. His research has been published by Prentice Hall and Tax Magazine. His interests include theories of taxation and board governance.
----

Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Touche_Tohmatsu
----
According to the firm's website as of 2007, Deloitte has approximately 150,000 professionals at work in over 148 countries, delivering audit, tax, consulting, and financial advisory services.
----

No wonder he works so hard against the FairTax...and America.


Please read "The Fair Tax Book: Saying Goodbye to the Income Tax and the IRS"

http://www.amazon.com/Fair-Tax-Book-Saying-Goodbye/dp/00608 75496/ref=ed_oe_p

and "FairTax: The Truth: Answering the Critics"

http://www.amazon.com/FairTax-Answering-Critics-Neal-Boortz /dp/0061540463/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid= 1203389134&sr=8-1

There is a concerted effort to discredit the FairTax by many different people that are acting out of self-interest.

We need the FairTax mainly for its promise of excellent economic growth. We have to grow to be able to pay the ever escalating costs of entitlement programs. If we continue as we are we will go into decline. We must rise up and make our politicians do the right thing.

Response to pdm
Sir:

In addition to consulting on taxes and preparing tax returns, I officiate sports, work a regular job (which has NOTHING to do with taxes), do financial planning, and manage investments for myself, my children and my clients.

Losing the tax business would decrement my annual income by maybe 10%, which I could make up easily by advising clients on how to best take legal advantage of the MASSIVE loopholes in the Fair Tax setup.

I would probably end up making a lot MORE money for a LOT less effort.

That said, my personal circumstance is not at issue here.

What IS at issue is the basic fairness of the Fair Tax proposal, and, in my humble opinion, there is absolutely NOTHING fair about the Fair Tax for the average working American.

I reviewed Neal Boortz's column which supposedly answered Mr. Adler's rather detailed critique. While Neal does point out that Adler fails to properly address the effects of eliminating the embedded tax, he FAILS to counter Adler's very legitimate contentions about:

- black marketing.
- state unwillingness to serve as the enforcing agent for the Fair Tax.
- the resultant bureaucratic instrusiveness involved with enforcing this new law.
- the lack of analysis or studies on the long-term effects on implementing this new tax setup.
- the constitutionality of even passing the Fair Tax law.

Now Neal MAY address those issues in his upcoming book, which I probably will not read anyway, because, when it comes right down to it...

there is virtually NO CHANCE of this tax proposal ever being passed.

The risks involved are just too great to do such a massive reform of our tax system.

The last we tried to massively reform the system (in 1986), it caused the commercial real estate market to virtually collapse.

I sincerely doubt any current member of Congress would take that chance unless there were a REAL ground swell of support in the American public.

LVD
It's good you prefaced your vacuous comments as humble. Can you admit that you are the biggest loser in the shell game we call Federal Taxes if this or any flat-tax based legislation comes to pass? Yet you bloviate ad nauseum after first admitting you didn't read the book: In the bizarro world of libs that makes you the most qualified to speak on the subject. Can you say "vested interest in the status quo"? Your livlihood is predicated on the topsy-turvy circus of rules designed to make it impossible for average Joe to do his taxes without calling on you. Waaa waaa! The savings left in people's pockets will exceed the loss of such a frivolous industry. Good riddance, sir.

By the way
Every single sales tax is flat; poor people pay the same 48 cents per New York State gallon of gas as does Ritchie Rich. Why aren't libs up in arms about that? Or that it represents something of a 22% rate. Where's the outrage there? Gas has proven to be highly price inelastic so our elected friends continue to get away with it. Whether they know it or not, people have been quietly accepting this system longer than they realize or care to admit.


The beauty..
of the Fair Tax or any sales-based tax system after the elimination of fed income and corporate taxes, is that the consumer has the power to pay NO TAXES by virtue of simply curbing purchases. Incentive shifts to savings and then to purchase only those things you really need or "must have", that is to say, where you are willing to pay the tax. Even if the retail price to the consumer goes up a tiny amount, the consumer has more dollars in his pocket.

But the biggest incentive has little to do with the rate, but rather the political implications. The power to manipulate behavior, giving favors and securing special voting blocks by incessant tweaking of the tax code will be taken away. The power shift would represent a real sea-change in the gov't's relationship to voters and return vastly greater power to the people.

Think of this way; every dollar represents a unit of freedom.
Regards


How much tax do I pay?
If I come to this country illegally and send 90% of my paycheck to my home country? How much tax does the American worker I displaced pay?

I have another word for The Fair Tax, but it would get censored here.

Just My Humble Opinion (Final Part)
Those who make MORE than $75,000 as a single person or $150,000 as married couples do not even argue the point with me. Like I said earlier, they have already done the research and know that they are paying the bulk of the tax load for the country. They are just in a hurry to get the tax consultation done with so they can mail the return, pay the taxes they owe (the really smart ones write a check that is mailed on April 15th), and then go to the next FairTax rally to change the system so THEY will not have to pay so much in taxes.

Self interest! You got to love it!

Just the humble opinion of one of the people who prepare the tax returns every year!

Just My Humble Opinion (Part 3)
- Finally, much has been made about “getting rid of the IRS”, because, with no income tax, there would be no need for the IRS. This is A BLATANT FALSEHOOD. The IRS mission would simply be changed from enforcing the current income tax laws to enforcing the new Fair Tax Sales Tax laws. Does ANYONE out there REALLY think there would not be a MASSIVE ATTEMPT to avoid this new 23 – 34% retail sales tax? If you think so, then you have not read your history about the black markets that cropped up EVERY TIME when high sales taxes were imposed on certain commodities (like cigarettes and liquor). A WHOLE NEW underground economy will result from the implementation of this law. Avoiding the Fair Tax GUARANTEES a savings of AT LEAST 23%!! If someone is willing to cheat on their income tax, why would they NOT want to cheat on the Fair Tax?

One final point: The flat tax or fair tax arguments come up fairly often when I deliver the prepared annual income tax return to my tax clients. Invariably, the ones who grouse about the current tax system THE MOST are those in the lower to middle income tax brackets. I listen to his/her arguments patiently, and then I say the following:

“Okay, let’s assume for a minute that a Fair Tax of 23% is passed. Let’s also assume that you spend about 80 cents of every dollar earned on taxable items. You (a single mom with two children making $30,000) would pay $5,520 in Fait Tax (.80 times .23 times 30,000).

I then show them what they pay under the current system. EVERY time they pay less under the current income tax system!! It stays that way up to about $75,000 for a single person and about $150,000 for a married couple. That tends to end the argument right there!!

Just My Humble Opinion (Part 2)
- Each of these fair/flat tax supporters stand to benefit GREATLY if the “Fair Tax” is approved as written. NOT ONE of these people will pay MORE tax under the proposed Fair Tax system. That fact should be BOTH OBVIOUS and SIGNIFICANT. It also pays credence to the main point of the multitude of critics of the Fair Tax: If these people (who CAN afford to pay the income tax as currently structured) are paying LESS, then who will be paying MORE??
- Consider this: Under the current system, a single person who makes $500,000 in taxable income pays about $154,861 in federal income (just under 31%) while someone who makes $20,000 in taxable income pays $2,623 in taxes (just over 13%)? These figures are right out of the 2006 federal income tax tables for a SINGLE person. On its face, it is seems unfair that the person who makes the higher income pays a tax rate three times greater than the low income earner. However, can anyone deny the simple fact that the $500K income earner can in fact AFFORD to pay this tax without suffering a significant blow to his or her lifestyle, while the $20K income earner probably struggles to pay his or her 13% tax rate?? Think about this!! Think about it LONG and HARD!!

Just My Humble Opinion (Part 2)
- Each of these fair/flat tax supporters stand to benefit GREATLY if the “Fair Tax” is approved as written. NOT ONE of these people will pay MORE tax under the proposed Fair Tax system. That fact should be BOTH OBVIOUS and SIGNIFICANT. It also pays credence to the main point of the multitude of critics of the Fair Tax: If these people (who CAN afford to pay the income tax as currently structured) are paying LESS, then who will be paying MORE??
- Consider this: Under the current system, a single person who makes $500,000 in taxable income pays about $154,861 in federal income (just under 31%) while someone who makes $20,000 in taxable income pays $2,623 in taxes (just over 13%)? These figures are right out of the 2006 federal income tax tables for a SINGLE person. On its face, it is seems unfair that the person who makes the higher income pays a tax rate three times greater than the low income earner. However, can anyone deny the simple fact that the $500K income earner can in fact AFFORD to pay this tax without suffering a significant blow to his or her lifestyle, while the $20K income earner probably struggles to pay his or her 13% tax rate?? Think about this!! Think about it LONG and HARD!!

Just My Humble Opinion (Part 1)
Note that I live in Atlanta and listen to Neal Boortz, the author of the Fair Tax proposal. While I like Neal and agree with him on many issues, on this one I could not DISAGREE more!!

I have prepared tax returns as a professional or as a volunteer for almost thirty years, so I would like to think that I have a pretty good idea of how our tax system works. I am currently a professional tax consultant for a number of high-income earners and a LOT of low-to middle-income earners. While I have NOT read the book, I have seen and researched the numerous flat-tax or fair-tax proposals that have come and gone over the years.

Here are my observations; take them for what they are worth:

- The current income tax system, while overly complicated and bewildering to the average citizen, is a product of the American public’s demand that taxes be paid by those who can afford to pay such taxes. While it is imperfect and, in many individual cases, OFTEN UNFAIR, it is, for the most part, rather equitable in delivering on that demand: Those who CAN afford to pay the income tax in fact DO PAY the income tax.
- ALL flat-tax or fair-tax proposals have been made by those who are high-income earners who pay the bulk of the income tax under the current system. They thoroughly understand the ins-and-outs of the current system (if they do not understand it, they pay people like me who DO understand it to advise them), and they recognize that they WILL CONTINUE TO PAY the bulk of the tax load imposed on the American public unless they engage in practices which the IRS normally classifies as tax fraud or until the basic income tax system itself is scrapped.

Fairest forms of taxation: principles
The best taxes are the ones that:

1. People want to pay: We should allow unlimited lottos and such.

2. are paid by the people who use the government service: We should have a heavy emphasis on user fees

3. are based on where taxpayers pay it from: People pay taxes primarily of income, so the dominant tax should be an income tax.

4. are transparent: People pay out of their own pockets every year, in arrears. No more withholding by employers. (The Feds should issue tax anticipation notes to cover their expenses during the year. Easily and cost-effectively done.)

5. have low transaction costs and are easy to collect/test/audit/dispute: It should be based on Adjusted Gross Income with no deductions.

6. Should be as broad as possible: The only bad part of Reagan's tax reforms of '81 and '86 were that they took tens of millions of low-earners off the tax roles entirely. We all need to be reminded that we have a stake in America. If some low income earners need a safety net, so be it. They should pay their tax and then apply for the safety net.

7. Should be as flat as possible: I calculated that rates of 2% on the first 10,000, 5% of the next 40,000, 15% of the next 200,000, and 28% of all in excess of $250,000 (of Adjusted Gross Income) would have generated as much personal income taxes as the current Leviathan in 2003.

8. Should be taxed once: No more triple taxation of income generated by corporations, no more taxes to estates upon death.

And those should be the guiding principles to create the fairest tax system.
Best regards to all,
Tim Cranston


Rebuttal
For those who haven't seen it yet, check Neal Boortz's rebuttal...

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/NealBoortz/2007/11/27/th e_fairtax_--_the_truth

Re: pitbull
Don't bother, friend.

Mountain Rose wrote to Turtle on, Thursday, November, 22, 2007 6:24 AM, "I have better things to do than read the [Fair Tax book], because my mind is made up."

In other words, she's not going to bother researching the legislation or read the book herself and she certainly isn't going to let your concise explanation alter her opinion.

Her mind is made up -- WITHOUT the effort of making an informed decision -- and THAT is THAT.

Mountain Rose, being closed minded
without all the facts will doom you to a life of ignorance. There is not enough room here to discuss all the aspects of the Fair Tax. What has never been discussed is that the tax is only paid at the retail level ONE time. A used car has no tax obligation. An existing home has no tax obligation. The shadow economy you seem to fear so greatly may exist, but to no greater extent than at present.

Since you work or have worked retail, you understand that loss prevention is pretty good, but not infallible. The only additional burden on retailers would be to remit the tax to the federal government. Most states have a sales tax so the mechanisms are already in place to calculate and remit to one government agency. Many cities have a sales tax as well, so the burden to the retailer is to add one additional tax. Not much to it in the age where most things are calculated by computer.

The greatest benefit would be to all consumers who no longer have to spend time and money filing taxes every year. Also we as consumers would determine how much we pay in taxes. The people who buy the Hummers and Mercedes would pay more in taxes than those of us who buy used cars. Those who shop frugally could actually make money with the prebate.

Additionally, with no corporate taxes the United States would become the largest tax haven in the world. Companies who have headquarters outside of the country would come back to enjoy the favorable tax structure. Additional corporate headquarters would mean more jobs in all sectors of the economy and higher wages for all. Read the book and get all the information, then make up your mind.

Mr. Adler
Did you even bother to read the fair tax book?

My gut instinct tells me that you stand to lose something should the 16th amendment get repealed and the fair tax implemented.

You sir, have lost all credibility.

Does this guy deal drugs????
I will admit that I only skimmed the article cause it was so FREAKING LONG but did he point out that with an Income Tax the biggest winners are CRIMINALS.

Noone pays income taxes on anything unless they report it as income. Criminals never report their incomes and thus pay 0% Federal Taxes. The rest of us saps pay the ticket for these bums and the U.S. Government doesn't care in the least (and neither does Mr. Adler I guess).

THAT IS THE PRIME EVIL OF AN INCOME TAX, HAS BEEN FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

Spin the numbers however he wants, but NO WAY should I be forced by my government to pay for drug dealers and car thieves! That is immoral .... even more so than having a government that steals 30% of my paycheck (before I get to see it) without caring what I am planning to do with it.

It is OUR money. Let us see it all and make our own decisions on what to do with it.

Please check my FairTax ramblings at http://www.FairTaxWarrior.com as well as on this site at http://fairtaxwarrior.townhall.com/g/3dc0c940-ce97-47c8-ad 13-cea02d6ff48f

Too much trouble to change???
Those that say "The FairTax will not work because it will take too much trouble to change the system" need to find another reason to oppose this measure.

Folks like that would have us still having blacks as second class citizens because it was "too hard" to remove all those "no coloreds allowed" signs.

Give me a freaking break.

This nation makes widespread changes in tax policy nearly every year and somehow we all seem to get with the program without too much trouble.

The "it's too hard to change" excuse is beyond lame.

A Harder Look at the Fair TAx
Please see my blog in response to the main opinion piece by Mr. Adler. Go to:

A Harder Look at the Fair Tax

http://www.townhall.com/content/81310e64-e84f-4b81-8906-134 05536b831

~Jim Bennett,
Summit, NJ

Misleading on purpose?
I know Mr. Adler was off-track right away when he arbitrarily changed the tax from 23 to 30 percent, ignoring the loss of the 23% embedded cost of taxes and tax compliance. How 'bout this calculation:

$100 item
$23 embedded cost taken out leaves a retail price of $77.
$77 plus the 23% sales tax equals $94.71.
Add sales tax (6.75% here in NC), or $5.20 for a total of $99.91


Then, when he failed to take into account that all payroll deductions would go away, that was another problem. After all, wouldn't our cash on hand increase as a result of this?

Dude, you gotta do better than that.

Inaccuracies abound in this piece.
I would love to debunk every fallacy and inaccuracy in this piece, but I don't have that much time.

Why on earth did Townhall.com give this mis-guided knave a podium?

Purchasing Power vs. the Tax Rate
It is funny that even Jimmy Carter called the IRS code "a disgrace to the human race." Remember? But Carter and the Congress were unwilling to bit the bullet and force a wholesale change to what has become an arcane (and inconsistent) system that in the short time from 1973 when I took tax in law school to the present mushroomed from a few phone books of code and regs into a room full of books incomprehensible to all. Even the Service cannot come up with the same answers each time they are asked the same questions.

In the meantime our European competitors have shown that tax reform can lead to more economical production. But that might put Adler and his buddies out of work.


Hank, you obviously have not read the Boortz and Linder tome on the Fair Tax because if you had your math would be different. Where did you get the information?

Specifically, under the Fair Tax the $100 cost should adjusted downward because the built-in taxes would be eliminated. The net cost to the consumer would be $100 less the prebate. If the states leave their tax structure as is, where would the differences be?

I suggest that your motive in opposing the Fair Tax is that you and your colleagues would have to find something more productive to do rather than teaching the tax code to students and lobbying members of Congress for code preferences.

Why not a sane discussion between Adler and Boortz? Or is Adler afraid of Boortz?

to Liberty
Your above comments made it perfectly clear how the basics of the Fair Tax would work.
Reading the book should make everything even clearer.
Thanks ...

Some Fast Math
RIGHT NOW -
- My monthly GROSS income is, currently, about 5k but my NET ("take home pay") is only about $3.2k after Federal Taxes. (Less after State Taxes and other deductions...)

- A gallon of milk costs me about $3.29.


FAIR TAX -
- Ignore the prebate for the fast math -- I still come out ahead.

- I get to TAKE HOME an additional $1.8k per month. The Fair Tax would, in EFFECT, give me a RAISE!

- The embedded taxes on a gallon of milk are removed. The price of milk drops to about $2.53 ($3.29 - 23%).

- When the national retail sales tax is added to the price of a gallon of milk it will cost about $3.29 (or very nearly what it cost before).


Let's see...
Even without the prebate, the cost of goods to me at the PoS is just about the same as before, but my NET INCOME goes up by more than 35%. The cost of living doesn't change appreciably, but my disposable income certainly DOES.

Add in the "prebate" and I have even more disposable income.


And for the poor? Even tax exempt, they have withholdings and have to wait until the end of the year to get a refund (which they certainly do NOT factor into their annual budget and spending).

The poor would no longer have any Federal tax withholdings, would get an immediate 7.5% pay raise (the Payroll Taxes for SS and Medicare that would NO LONGER be taken out), the cost of living would remain about the same, AND they'd get a prebate.

Like me, the poor would "take home" more money BUT would not have to spend ANY MORE than before. How do they NOT win?

Factcheck.org: "unspinning the Fairtax"
> On the Fairtax.org website you will find, if you look, a complete rebuttal to factcheck.org's article. You will note that they have not, inspite of the complete debunking of their article, retracted any portion. Three word explaination, agenda, agenda, agenda! Someone there is vested in the current system and benefits from it. I never get close to $200,000.
It's clear to me however that even if I don't get the prebate, I'm still better of with the Fairtax.

Realism 101
Good article on unspinning the fairtax:

http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/unspinning_the_fairtax.html


At least I finally have my answer on who's tax burden actually increases for the fairtax to be "revenue neutral": It looks like those earning between 15K and 200K per year make up the shortfall (according to the Treasury Department.) If Warren Buffet really is an advocate for the fairtax - I think I just figured out why...he'd save billions.

Taxation fairness means that as your income increases - so does (and should) your percentage of the tax burden.

I still stand by my point - that taxation is a trade off between simplicity and "taxation fairness." A tax that is simple cannot administer a progressive level of "taxation fairness" nor can a tax that administers "taxation fairness" be simple.

Although our current system has its disadvantages - I will always prefer "taxation fairness" over simplicity any day. Once I make over $200K/year - perhaps I will jump on board the fairtax movement with tremendous enthusiasm and vigor.

Realism 101
> So Hawk you admit to going to the Fairtax web site. Now how about doing some real research of your own. On the site you can find all of the research done to arrive at the Fairtax rate, and it is backed up by telling who did that research and what their exact methodology was. The Fairtax is probably the best researched tax plan ever formulated. The research doesn't just stop there, it is a continuing process going on today. Our tax system is one left over from a vanished era. Money now crosses multiple international borders seemlessly at the speed of electricity. The IRS is helpless to track transactions in cyberspace. We can either adopt a system like the Fairtax, or out of necessity our government will go to far more draconian methods of spying on us to ensure tax compliance. Can you imagine the "Super IRS" monitoring every phone call and internet communication in the country to detect avoidance and evasion. It wouldn't be the first case of their abuse of constitutional rights, but wait till the law says they have the right.The USEconomy is headed for a cosmic train wreck, and our current tax system is a large part of the reason.

For Bill
I won't deny that there are good points to the "fair tax" but I am not ready to sign off on it till the bugs are worked out.

Such as an unplaned depression w/unemployment, illegals sending millions to Mexico (untaxed) the "always evaders" making their purchases outside the US to avoid taxes, will then the percentage go up? and who decides when and how much it goes up when "not enough revenue" is coming in.

I guess I ask way too many questions.

Realism 101
I did check out the fairtax calculator and it claims my taxes will be cut 64% - I don't buy it. It points out a lot of assumptions on the bottom - which disclaim the accuracy of its analysis.

Tax reform is a zero sum game.

It is easy to sell Americans on a plan that claims to reduce their taxes, but the numbers just don't add up. When you tell everybody that their taxes are going to decrease with no substantive explanation of whose taxes will increase (remember illegal aliens in most cases are are poverty level - so they are not making up the shortfall here.)


The plan says lower-income Americans get the pre-bate - so if the middle class, the wealthy, and the lower class aren't making up the shortfall in this tax - the fair tax will work only in a dream world.

Hawk,
There is no way I will ever convince you, so I will stop trying

fairtax volunteer
I realize you really really want to be right on this, but the fact is you are not.

As posted in my earlier link, LT Capital Gains are capped at 28% not 15% (see the link I posted earlier.) If you really want to verify this, go to http://www.irs.gov, pull up Schedule D along with the instructions and worksheets and prove my point for me.

I would love if it LT capital gains capped out at 15% - but that is simply not the case for people with incomes exceeding the 15% threshholds.

Costs of uncollected taxes are all estimates. High income tax payers get audited every year as those are the areas where the IRS can get the most impact for their efforts. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet may find a few tax loopholes that save them millions of dollars, but their savings are almost always a small percentage of their overall tax bill (which small percentage just happens to be millions of dollars.)

The fairtax will require an amendment to the constitution to implement it - because it would bankrupt the government if they made the switch to the fairtax only to have some judge declare it unconstitutional. (The constitutional amendment is never going to happen.)

Lastly - If you think the fairtax would eliminate all compliance/enforcement/collection costs - you are kidding yourself. All kinds of games get played with state sales taxes, and states must audit taxpayers continually.

Tax Gap!!!
I knew about the cost of collecting taxes, and the costs of complying with the income tax, but I never considered the cost of uncollected taxes. That totals out to nearly a trillion dollars a year!! What a waste.

One other note to those who care. The FairTax actually saves SS in the short term.

And to those in the envy class, Bill Gates and Paris Hilton pay SS taxes on every new item and service they purchase.

Here comes Class Envy!
For those who keep bringing up the argument that the Fair Tax is trash because the "rich" (Barbara Streisand, Oprah Winfrey, Ted Turner, Robert Redford, et al.) may not be paying as high a percentage of their vast wealth as people with less income . . . shame on you for envying them so much! With the exception of Paris Hilton, Teresa Heinz Kerry, Ted Kennedy, et al., they EARNED their wealth, which shouldn't be pilfered by a highly disorganized, inefficient and wasteful federal government. Ever heard of the "Tax Gap?" Visit:

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=154496,00.html

The IRS could be funded for the next THIRTY years on the money that they ADMIT they're not collecting in just about any given tax year! Efficient? Not hardly. And THIS is the best system?

I guess it bothers these folks LESS that illegals have a tax FREE RIDE under an income tax because Bill Gates may not pay as much tax (which he's writing off MILLIONS now because of all the tax loopholes). And you know what? He may open a new product line at MicroSoft or start a new company and create a few thousand jobs with all his extra money. How horrible!

Besides . . . buy USED stuff, folks, and don't pay ANY federal taxes!!!

Go Fair Tax!

Hawk
People like Bill Gates, John Edwards, Ted Kennedy...have wealth not income. I don't look into other people's pockets as a rule, but I do know that Bill Gates has a foundation; John Edwards took his money as stock, and Ted Kennedy gets paid $1/year for his Senate income. Wealthy people pay tax advisers to avoid paying taxes.

BTW, long term capital gains are capped at 15%.

Why don't you take the time to watch the video at http://tinyurl.com/2mrsd5 ? ...And there is a tax calculator at fairtax.org.



fairtax volunteer
You seem to forget that with our current system of progressive taxation, the top 20% of incomes pay 80% of the tax. It is heavily weighted to the top end. The Bill Gates', Michael Jordan's, and Warren Buffets' are merely three people...there are plently more in the top 20% than those three.

If all of these individuals get to drop their tax rate from 39% of income to 23% of consumption (and believe me - these people can cut their consumption a lot more than you & I) you are seriously kidding yourself if you don't believe you & I will double, triple, or even quadruple our current tax burden to keep the tax revenue at its current levels.

Warren Buffet
Bill you are mixing up your facts.

Capital Gains tax rates are just as progressive as income tax rates. See here:

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=106799,00.html

Warren Buffet would pay the maximum capital gain tax rate of 28% - which is still lower than the 39% he would pay on ordinary income. I don't think Buffet really said what you claim he said - if he did, then he doesn't know what he's talking about.

If his secretary pays a higher tax rate than he does (28%) she must have AGI exceeding 160K - 195K depending on whether she is married or single. (And yes - it is fair that investments are taxed at lower rates than ordinary income.)

Response to Hawk
It really is a fair tax. You will not be picking up the tab for Bill Gates and Michael Jordan. Right now there are ~140 million tax filers. There are over 300 million consumers. You do the math. Oh, yes, add the people visiting this country legally or not.


Warren Buffet???
Hawk!

(The billionaire) Warren Buffet was featured on Fox News a couple of weeks ago on a guilt trip over only having about a 17% tax rate because he's no longer being taxed on an "income." His earnings are now comprised almost entirely through returns on his many investments by which he's just paying capital gains which are at a much lower rate. He says his secretary is paying a higher tax rate. You call THAT fair????

Why not?
Bluejacket . . .

This AIN'T the government's thing! The LAST thing they (and their D.C. Lobbyist friends) want is to shift control for tax collections (and who gets what tax credits, deductions, exemptions, etc., this year) BACK to the American people - the way it was BEFORE 1913 and ratification of Amendment 16. Under the Fair Tax, the CONSUMER gets to choose when and how much federal tax he/she pays by their individual purchasing decisions. We have NO choice the way the tax system is today.

And personally, I'd LIKE the idea of never, EVER again having to file income tax returns, keeping tax records, paying a tax preparer, or having federal taxes (including FICA/Medicare taxes) withheld from my paychecks. Better yet, drug dealers, illegal aliens, gamblers, pimps/prostitutes, thieves, tax cheats, and other "non-filers" (Does Willie Nelson, Wesley Snipes, et al., ring a bell?)- whose earnings are NOT taxed under the current system will pay taxes as consumers - like the rest of us!

Get the real scoop for yourself. Check out: http://FairTax.org It's the website for the non-profit, non-partisan grassroots research organization disseminating the truth about the Fair Tax plan.

tea2dump

How does one define a "fair" tax?
My definition of a fair tax means that someone like Michael Jordam, Bill Gates, or Warren Buffet pays a much higher tax rate than you & me.

Taxation has a trade off between simplicity and "fairness" (fairness as defined above.) The more simple the tax (ie: flat sales tax rate) the less fair. (Michael Jordan gets the same rate as you & I.) Unfortunately - the more "fair" a tax gets the less simple.

Our current tax system is quite complicated because it seeks to administer a level of fairness, where tax burdens get progressively higher as someone's income increases.

Huckabee's idea of a "fair tax" has a lot of holes in it...I don't think his supporters realize how much their tax bill is going to increase if Huckabee's plan goes through. With a plan like this, I'm surprised Huck doesn't have more very wealthy supporters...like Chuck Norris.)

With Huck's fair tax, people like Michael Jordan, Warren Buffet, and Bill Gates will be the biggest winners...as they see their tax rate drop from 39% of income, to 23% of consumption. BIG BIG Drop that will be paid for by you & I. I don't like that one bit.

Needs more lipstick
Whenever the government is trying to sell us on something, it is always presented in the best light possible.

Considering the shaft they've been trying to give us with the amnesty crock of excrement, why should I believe that the fair tax is anything but that same pig with more lipstick?

JT and the military
JT keep in mind that while combat pay is not taxable, you still have to pay SS and Medicare. With the FairTax, you do not. You will also receive a prebate for you and your family. I don't know the size of your family, but an example of 2 adults and 2 children would be $6297/year, received in twelve monthly increments of ~$525.


Inclusive -- exclusive.
First regarding Fairtax being an inclusive tax, that is really what it is. When you see an item displayed on the shelf, if the price is $100, that is the price you pay. You are made aware of the tax on your receipt, because hopefully you will begin to understand just how much the government is charging you to buy your votes.

I think we all understand that the income tax is also an inclusive tax. If you are in the 15% tax bracket (your income is >$31,850), you also pay 6.2% for SS plus 1.45% for Medicare. The total inclusive rate is 22.65%. Out of every $100 you earn, you take home $77.35. That is an exclusive rate of 29%

Now take a look at a person making $31,850 with the FairTax. First of all he will receive a monthly prebate equal to the taxes he would pay if he spent every penny up to the poverty level. Using 2007 calculations. For one person, that number is $2348 in 12 monthly increments. His income is now $34198. Say he finds an NEW car that costs $34198, and decides he just has to have it. When he buys that new car he will have paid $7865.54 in taxes. Of course $2348 has already been refunded, so the total in taxes is $5517.54

Now compare. With the income tax (including SS and Medicare.) Our person wouldn't own that car, unless he bought it on credit, but he will have paid Uncle Sam $7214 in taxes.

Of course our hypothetical person could have bought a used car and paid no taxes at all, and then pocketed the $2348.

The Fair Tax
We the people pay all taxes and are the only ultimate source of all tax revenue. since there is only one source of all revenue, there should be only one tax to collect all revenue for each level of government - One Tax And Done. This would remove all taxes from the price paid for everything by everyone - even government, reducing the price by 1/3. Taxing bueaucrats could get real jobs and pay into the treasury, instead of taking money out of the treasury. Government would no longer tax employers and jobs out of existence. Had this been enacted in 1946, our industries would have rebuilt American factories and trains, instead of rebuilding those in Japan and Germany. The Marshall Plan would have been funded by taxes taken directly from us the people, not from the operating capital of our industries.

Your PRESUMPTUOUS FairTax Critique

[Prebates] Lawful residents would NEVER pay the ENTIRE 23% under FairTax.

(From study: http://snipurl.com/kotcomparetaxrates ) "...the FairTax imposes much lower average taxes on working-age households than does the current system. The FairTax broadens the tax base from what is now primarily a system of labor income taxation to a system that taxes, albeit indirectly, both labor income and existing wealth. By including existing wealth in the effective tax base, much of which is owned by rich and middle-class elderly households, the FairTax is able to tax labor income at a lower effective rate and, thereby, lower the average lifetime tax rates facing working-age Americans.

"Consider, as an example, a single household age 30 earning $50,000. The household’s average tax rate under the current system is 21.1 percent. It’s 13.5 percent under the FairTax. Since the FairTax would preserve the purchasing power of Social Security benefits and also provide a tax rebate, older low-income workers who will live primarily or exclusively on Social Security would be better off. As an example, the average remaining lifetime tax rate for an age 60 married couple with $20,000 of earnings falls from its current value of 7.2 percent to -11.0 percent under the FairTax. As another example, compare the current 24.0 percent remaining lifetime average tax rate of a married age 45 couple with $100,000 in earnings to the 14.7 percent rate that arises under the FairTax."

I WROTE FAR MORE. PUBLISH THE 2000 CHAR LIMIT UP FRONT.

If you want to understand the FairTax
If you want to understand the FairTax I suggest you listen to the men who wrote the book. They put on a workshop at American Solutions, and it is the most viewed workshop at their site. The address is http://tinyurl.com/2mrsd5. I suggest everyone watch it. It lasts about 55 minutes so get out your popcorn and enjoy.


Calculations
Some of this was interesting and would have been better if he did not try to mislead in so many instances. For example, he does not take into account any price reduction from the removal of the business taxes and compliance costs (estimated to be 10-15% of embedded costs). How about the example on State using the sales tax base (but not the FairTax base), if you use the FairTax base for the State sales tax it drops the rate by more than half. 15% for California? That's half the Federal rate and just ridiculous. He didn't adjust the Social Security benefits by inflation, as defined in the legislation, so that they would not lose purchasing power... Several micro-economic studies have been done (Kotlikoff, Beacon Hill, Arduin, Laffer & Moore Econometrics). Cross-section time frame conclusions that assume that savings and investment is never taxed. This is just at a glance... How can I take any of it seriously when there are so many simple (possibly intentional) errors.

"Fair-Tax" Not for Military
I am Active Duty Air Force and if anyone can explain to me how this will put more money in my pocket I'd like to know. Under the current tax laws, I itemize and once I've filed, I normally get all my taxes back and then some. I actually get more back from the gov't based on my child credits. If the fair tax were to go through, that would be a huge tax increase for me as far as I can tell. I am not very familiar with the tax except the little I've read, so if anyone can explain how this is good for me, I'd like to know. As far as I can tell, it would be terrible for military families, who's income is shielded from taxes somewhat based on allowances received for things like housing and subsistence.

JT

Hoo Boy!
What a bunch of leftist tripe. I started laughing from:

"With all of its complexity, the current Internal Revenue Code is a more evenhanded approach to collecting necessary Federal revenues than H.R. 25."

I ain't rich, but I don't cot'n to class warfare either. Guess what? Rich people DO spend more money on food. They spend more money on EVERYTHING! And with a rebate to poverty level for everybody, what the **** is the problem?

kf6eml, you rock.

WRONG - Fair Tax is THE answer!!!
What is not considered here is the cost of every product made in USA! I calculated 40% of every dollar we ship is tax, mandated insurance, or EPA. That is an 80% tariff on the manufacturing companies trying to stay in business in the USA. These costs would be eliminated.

The best answer is repeal of the income tax, and have the state, federal, and local taxes ALL come 100% from a sales tax, then that would be totally fair!

Our current income tax system is absurd and completely WRONG!!!

Any new government programs will need to increase the national sales tax - and even the liberals in Pittsburgh won't vote for that!!!

As an engineer, scientist, businessman, and truth seeker, I have plenty of evidence and examples of the fair tax system.

A proper fair tax system would create tremendous economic growth and prosperity.

I would suggest limiting it to 18%, 9% for the feds, 6% for the state, and 3% for the local, and THAT'S ALL THEY'RE ALLOWED!!! PERIOD!!! No borrowing, no raising taxes, no other taxes!!!

If we do this, we may actually be able to afford to put REAL SILVER AND GOLD back in our coins again!!!

Anna, please read the book
Anna, one is already paying on the order of 23% in embedded costs when they buy a house. Remove that and replace that with the fair tax and the potential homeowner is no worse off than before implementation. In reality, they are better off because they pay the same for the item while not having their paycheck pilaged via withholding. An even better scenario? Buy a used home and there is no tax. They pay 23% less for the home of their dreams. The effect is the opposite of what you propose. People that once couldn't afford to own a home may very well be able to now. Get The Fair Tax Book as a Christmas present to yourself.

Fair Tax is Brilliant...

... because illegals, criminals, drug dealers, theives, the rich- EVERYBODY PAYS!!
Not JUST YOU and ME!

And HOW much TAX you pay depends on HOW MUCH YOU SPEND and NOT ON HOW MUCH YOU EARN!!!!

How bad do you want those diamonds, expensive cars, private jets?? Yes I know it would also impact on everything else we buy--BUT YOU GET TO KEEP YOUR WHOLE PAYCHECK!!! EVERY BIT! JUST LIKE THE ILLEGALS!!!

And - FOR ONCE- those who SAVE the most are taxed the least- BRILLIANT!

On paper
The flat tax looks good when you factor in the pre-bate, etc. In reality, I suspect what would really happen - we would have a "transition" phase during which we'd have both an income tax AND the increased sales tax, similar to the VAT, with a promise to eliminate the income tax which would somehow never occur. Call me cynical, but I could see this happening.

To increase fairness, why not increase the deductible and peg it to inflation? The deductible per adult should be equal to the average cost of necessities - perhaps $12K a year? Get rid of the marriage penalty and increase the deductible for kids as well, perhaps to $5K. For a family of 4, their deductible would then be $34,000. Then tie these numbers to inflation so that the deductible rises every year. This would automatically give a huge benefit to lower and middle class families without increasing the complexity of the system.

Another idea - why not tie congressional salaries to worker salaries? If the median American salary drops, Congressional salaries also drop by the same percentage. If they increase, Congressional salaries do as well. Use median salaries because averages can obscure the disparities between rich and poor. I think Congress would be more motivated to help American wage earners if their take home pay was tied to worker wages.


A Lot Of Ignorance!
In all the negative comments I see in this forum almost all of them deal with ignorance. A lot of people simply have not tried to learn about the FairTax. If people would sit down and read the book and make an effort to see the benefits of the FairTax there is no way anyone would be against it. I don't expect 100% acceptance of the FairTax Amendment. It has been reported that 81% of people who study the amendment are in favor of the FairTax.
I was not all cozy at first, but every time I have attended a seminar or workshop I learn something new about the FairTax. This will be the most progressive thing to ever happen to our country.

JimInMusicCity
is right on. I haven't read all the posts, but has anybody googled Hank Adler? When you do you'll find that he is a big-gun tax accountant. Could his non-inclusion of important points about the FairTax have something to do with his occupational vantage point?

Could the real point of this article be to preserve Adler's lucrative business?

Oh, sorry, that's ad hominem isn't it?

A couple of thngs (last)
In closing:
To those who can read through the list of all the social engineering that this writer uses as examples of why we should KEEP the current system, without getting chills (personally it made me a bit nauseous): I hope and pray you are in the minority.

A couple of things (part 3)
b)"H.R. 25 would result in an immediate reduction in purchasing power upon implementation for existing savings which have previously been subject to U.S. income taxes (double taxation)."

and

"Immediate Increases in Buying Power - For taxpayers with deferred ordinary income (various types of pensions, deferred salary plans, stock options etc.), there would be an immediate increase in purchasing power.....(Under current Federal income tax law, the executive received the options without any taxation and with the expectation that upon exercise of the options, he or she would pay income taxes at ordinary income tax rates.)"

OK buddy, you can't argue both of these: First case double taxation, second case (presumably) no taxation. Either we count the FairTax as a tax, or not. In the second case he merely exchanges paying taxes at time of exercising the options for at time of spending the proceeds. The first case is obviously the one for concern and SHOULD be discussed. Will the removal of embedded taxes make prices fall fast enough and far enough to make this neutral? I have some concerns in this regard, especially the speed at which markets will drive prices down. This should be the debate, not this article's drivel.

c) Last one. Throughout, any time the writer refers to purchasing power, he, mathematically, assumes that prices will not fall AT ALL due to the removal of embedded taxes.

Well heck man, if you would have merely been courteous enough to put that in your first paragraph as one of your assumptions, you would have saved us all a lot of time. We would have skipped reading your nonsense. Everyone is aware that the costs of the embedded taxes coming out of the pricing is an integral part of this concept. Summary: I assume it doesn't work and therefore (drum roll) it doesn't work (look how smart I am).

A couple of things (part two)
Fifth: Just a couple parts of foolishness I found while scanning it before I gave up:

a)"H.R. 25 would result in a very significant competitive purchase price advantage given to an investor purchasing a new residence over a couple wishing to purchase the same property as a home."

The idea here is that the home buyer would have to pay 30% more than the investor (or, if you prefer, the investor could pay 23% less than the home buyer - - see how easy that is). And then do what? Can he sell it and capitalize on the "advantage"? No, if the market value was 200k with taxes before, it still is. He can't sell it to another investor for any more. He can't hide some kind of mark-up and still hit market - either the "wholesale" or the "retail" market. Can he rent it and get something for nothing? No. Although the answer is a bit more cumbersome, the tax will be added to the rental amount and the underlying value is undisturbed (as an example if you use rental should be 1% a month of underlying value, its still true at the investor level and the retail level). The only way it is an issue is if you purchase a house to live in and then, some years later want to rent it out. Perhaps you can rebate the collected taxes until you've reimbursed yourself for turning a retail item back into a wholesale item? Perhaps no tax would be collected (which would STILL leave the underlying values ok). These are the things that should be discussed. Not this article's foolishness.

A couple of things (part one)
First: Its my opinion we need to have some serious discussions on this, pro and con. Unfortunately this article is not it.

Second: I think we need to just drop the 23% and use the 30%. It seems to make more sense to everyone (especially those for whom math is not natural). We can then just remind (or show) people that a 30% sales tax is much lower than a 30% income tax.

Third: To those who say 30% is just too high. Many agree, but in order to tame the beast, we first have to get in control of the beast. To try to battle both the amount and method of raising taxes concurrently makes it DOA. Starting from an income neutral position is the ONLY way to begin. We first have to get the government out of the social engineering business. The FairTax does an excellent job in this regard. Do not make the perfect the enemy of the good.

Fourth: I can't make a point by point reply to all the foolishness in this article; I have neither the time nor the patience. But perhaps a hundred or so of us could agree to split it up and research and reply. I'd be willing.


screw the working poor/middle class!
I find it hard to believe anyone can defend a "consumption" tax. This will always screw the lower income/middle class. The "brightest economic minds" came up with the idea. That is hillarious. You mean globalist corporate interests?

Someone buying a house to live in (if they can afford it) pays tax of 23%. That adds quite a chunk of money. But someone buying investment property pays nothing! Who with a straight face can defend that? (Let me buy that house and RENT it to you. Is that the plan?)

I am self-employed. Last year my income increased by a third and my taxes tripled. Then I found out that the highest tax bracket is at the level of the majority of small business. The tax break comes after 90K when the SS tax falls off. This plan sounds like it makes it harder for self employed to qualify for SS!

I just don't buy it. This will shift the burden to taxes to the middle class and working poor and will benefit high income the most. I know people who are millionares. They still have just two TV's. Drive two cars.

This plan would have someone who may make 50 times as much money as I do pay the same tax rate. Sorry but their luxury SUV does not cost 50 times as much as my budget car. It just doesn't add up.

I don't feel that a consumer tax can be fair. Family of 4 at 120K spends three times as much money on food as family of four at 40K?

Real money/corporate power in this country control gov and they get what is best for themselves. American worker is screwed. Just one more plan to kill the middleclass. Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Re: 1913 rang the bell
First off, a Blessed and Happy Thankgsgiving to all here, and especially to our sailors, soldiers, airmen, and marines standing the watch today. OldMan, you were close on your comment, but the actual destruction of the Republic has to date back to 1861. Mr. Lincoln's War of 1861-1865 laid the grounds for what expanded during the First World War, especially including the income tax [first implemented by the Federals, then later by the Confederates]; what ended up happening was the destruction of a Federal Republic and the creation of a National State with the individual sovereign states becoming subordinate and inferior provinces, answering to their centralised master. This was accomplished through the Fourteenth Amendment, which applied the Constitutional restrictions originally applied only to the Federal government to the individual States. The Great Consolidator [Thank you Dr. Walter Williams] consolidated a strong central government from the fairly weak central government created by the Founding Fathers; it was made even stronger during wartime by Woodrow Wilson and even more so with FDR. I am not sure that we can return to the small, fairly weak central government again, the servant and agent of the states and the people rather than their master; our only hope, though, is that we do so. The FairTax is a good start on this; it radically simplifies our tax system, and even more so lets every taxpayer SEE exactly where the money is coming from. The author of this article had a rather condescending tone in his complaint that the change to the FairTax would eliminate the government's ability to influence society via tax policy; the government has no BUSINESS using the tax code to influence behaviours. The only purpose of the tax code it to pay the government's bills; it should be as neutral as is possible consonant with paying those bills.

cfountain72
corporate income tax rates are not 23%. This is the amount that the underlying study found that the average company paid in both taxes and compliance: income, soc. sec., accounting, tax embedded in raw materials etc. Although I would like to see a more detailed description, it does not rely only on income tax (and certainly not one of 23%)

scott s
Huh?

I don't see how I have to pay anything extra to comply with sales taxes. I have no hope of getting sales taxes refunded... That money is gone. Thus, no tax returns.

Taxes are paid on the retail cost. The final cost to the consumer.
Top line? Bottom line? What is all of that, and what does it have to do with anything? You set your price, you add 30% and that is what you charge the customer. Only a politician could make this complicated.

Fritz:
I don't like it when they do that, either.

If you want to read it, you can copy it and paste it into notepad or something.

Fair? tax
If you live in Hawaii, you understand the calculation system because we have essentially the same thing, called a general excise tax. However, as far as I can tell, a business entity (and BTW, the current tax rate being cited seems to be for incorporated C corps, and neglects other business entities) would have to pay the tax on all goods and services not purchased for resale. so for example if a business buys accounting services to do their fair tax returns, the amount charged by the accountant would include the tax, and thus be reflected in a business' costs.

The idea that the fair tax is somehow free of administration costs or oversight is such a joke. It will just create a different type of underground economy, especially small-time service providers working off the books.

For a sole proprietor, such as an independent contractor commissions-based sales, I assume they would be paying the "fair" tax off the top line, which is much worse than any bottom line income tax.?

Tax
Couldn't read it because Townhall puts advertisements all over the page.

It's not that hard!
Here goes...


Income tax:
Assume I earn $100, pay $20 and am left with $80. This is a 20% inclusive tax rate.
Exclusively, it is a 25% rate because $20 is 25% of $80.

Sales tax:
Assume the total cost of a purchase is $100, the tax is $20, and the base price is $80.
As sales tax is usually calculated (exclusively), the tax rate would be 25%.

Since Income tax is usually presented inclusively, the Fairtax is presented inclusively as well. When you make an $80 purchase that actually costs $100, 20% of the final price went to taxes.

Deceptive Fair Tax
I finally figured out what Old Man was trying to tell me... and Fairtax.org doesn't explain it very well, either.

It boils down to the way the tax amount is calculated. It isn't done the way 'normal' taxes are done, by multiplying the tax rate by the amount to be taxed. The relevant part of the bill is (taken from S.1025, identical as far as I've found so far to the House version): divide the amount of the tax by the (purchase amt + the tax). For that to come out to 23% you can also divide the purchase amt by (1-taxrate [which would be 0.77 for a 23% tax]). That comes out to just about (purchase amt + (purchase amt times 0.30)).

The clue is in the requirements for how the customer receipt is printed in the bill:

5 ‘‘SEC. 510. TAX TO BE SEPARATELY STATED AND CHARGED.
11 ... the seller shall provide to the purchaser a receipt for
12 each transaction that includes—
13 ‘‘(1) the property or services price exclusive of
14 tax;
15 ‘‘(2) the amount of tax paid;
16 ‘‘(3) the property or service price inclusive of
17 tax;
*********************************
To get a 23% tax rate using the method
below, you have to multiply the sub-
total (1) by 30%.
*********************************
18 ‘‘(4) the tax rate (the amount of tax paid (per
19 paragraph (2)) divided by the property or service
20 price inclusive of tax (per paragraph (3));
*********************************
21 ‘‘(5) the date that the good or service was sold;
22 ‘‘(6) the name of the vendor; and
23 ‘‘(7) the vendor registration number.

Well, Old Man, have I finally gotten it right?

Fair Tax
As a budding real estate "investor" I kinda like that deduction! However, my response to the many critizisms of the tax is simple. In my home state of "Taxachusatts" one of the few intelligent things this state has done is to declare food and clothing as non-taxable necessaties. How about expanding the list?

Besides food and clothing, how about housing(primary residence as well as investment property)? This can be added to transportation(autos), private education (already non-taxable, but some government dirtbag or teachers' union scum is sure to suggest otherwise) followed by state deduction, and books (self-education; another of the few intelligent things "Taxachusetts" does.

With that done, the states can compete among themselves in their own tax policies so as not to just to attract business, but to attract the best and brightest of citizens. Also, the federal government could enact reasonable tariffs on competing foreign products to allow U.S. made products and industries to survive yet keep those foreign products cheap enough so American companies don't get fat and lazy as they did in the 50's-70's. Again, as another poster mentioned, this would eliminate many hidden taxes thus lowering prices even more than the present system. That, and giving us the choice of sticking with the present social security system or investing privately(personally I'd phase out SS over the next 20-30 years). Of course, that would mean honest, intelligent, constitutionally minded politians. If you believe in those, you probably also believe in the tooth fairy!




Federal Taxation
1) Next to Sen. Brownback is the IRC (Internal Revenue Code); where is Title 26 USC? Codes and regulations have no authority outside of the jurisdictions contained in the [statutes].
2) Will the "Fair Tax", "Flat Tax" etc., etc. be private law statutes like Title 26?
3) Has the IRS been applying code sections outside of the jurisdictions in Title 26?
4) Why do I as a Citizen have to file a 'Freedom of Information Act Request' to get the IRS to answer question 2)? Why do they want to make it as hard as possible for me to find out that all of the subtitles of Title 26 are private law statutes?
Old Man seems to be close. The problem is that unless you know the right questions to ask, you won't get anything but B.S.(Bad Stories) from the government.
BTW, the government already knows the answers to the questions I've asked. Want to make them squirm? A) Put those question in the form of a demand notice or similar legal form. B) Have it notarized. C) File copies with your county recorders office to make it part of the public record and cognizable in a court of law. You'll notice the IRS always files notices through the county office. E) Send copies to the IRS commissioner, the US Attorney Generals office, the Speaker of the House, and the Senate. F) Require all answers to be signed under penalty of perjury, again just like the IRS.
What you will observe is the dance of The Cat on a Hot Tin Roof.
Add one more question. Ask them to cite which statute from the United States Codes, United States Codes Annotated or Statutes at Large they are claiming "jurisdiction" under.
Of course if none of what I'm saying makes any sense to you and you aren't willing to learn, well the national equivelent to the DMV will soon be in charge of your tax bill.
Sweet dreams.

Serious Omissions
I will not take a point by point rebuttal to Adler's article, but a couple of points to illustrate both his disingenuousness, and his ideological bias, are in order.

First, the Fair Tax will remove the embedded taxes currently contained in all goods and services. This applies to the entire production chain, not just the final retailer. As someone pointed out earlier, each business now pays a tax of about 25% on their profits, and those profits are only about 15% or so, so each "link" in the chain would only see about 2% to 5% cost reduction. But, when taken in aggregate, over the entire manufacturing chain (from raw materials through various intermediates, to final goods), the estimated effect is 20% to 30%, depending upon the specific goods or services.

Second, Adler is morbidly fascinated by what "the evil Rich" might, or might not, be doing/getting. Rather then focusing on how much the lot of the poor and middle class will be improved under the Fair Tax, he is rabidly afraid that some one else will profit. His focusing on how we can/should use the tax system to punish the Rich, rather then truly helping to elevate the poor, is almost pathological in that he is willing to see everyone continue to suffer under a repressive tax system, just to make sure that the objects of his envy are "punished" for their success.

And as a side note, it's interesting how he has "redesigned" the Fair Tax to fit his purchasing models, rather then presenting the Fair Tax as it is proposed. (For instance, not reducing the costs of goods to reflect the lower embedded taxes under the Fair Tax).

Serious Omissions
I will not take a point by point rebuttal to Adler's article, but a couple of points to illustrate both his disingenuousness, and his ideological bias, are in order.

First, the Fair Tax will remove the embedded taxes currently contained in all goods and services. This applies to the entire production chain, not just the final retailer. As someone pointed out earlier, each business now pays a tax of about 25% on their profits, and those profits are only about 15% or so, so each "link" in the chain would only see about 2% to 5% cost reduction. But, when taken in aggregate, over the entire manufacturing chain (from raw materials through various intermediates, to final goods), the estimated effect is 20% to 30%, depending upon the specific goods or services.

Second, Adler is morbidly fascinated by what "the evil Rich" might, or might not, be doing/getting. Rather then focusing on how much the lot of the poor and middle class will be improved under the Fair Tax, he is rabidly afraid that some one else will profit. His focusing on how we can/should use the tax system to punish the Rich, rather then truly helping to elevate the poor, is almost pathological in that he is willing to see everyone continue to suffer under a repressive tax system, just to make sure that the objects of his envy are "punished" for their success.

And as a side note, it's interesting how he has "redesigned" the Fair Tax to fit his purchasing models, rather then presenting the Fair Tax as it is proposed. (For instance, not reducing the costs of goods to reflect the lower embedded taxes under the Fair Tax).

Oops!
$70 + $35 /= $135! However, $105 would still pay electric + city utilities for several months of the year...

Now, what's wrong with the OTHER math?

Old Man - sorry
Please accept my apology. Actually, I figured out how dumb what I wrote was just before I read your response.

Like you said, 23% is 23% regardless of when you collect it.

However, I still don't see why this doesn't work: If I spend $100 I pay $23 federal sales tax on it. It seems like I only have to make $123 to have $100 to spend. It makes a difference whether you tax the $100 or the $123. In the latter case (income tax) I'd only have $94.71 left to spend.

It looks like the FIT+FICA+Medicare taxes costs me $30 for every $100 I have left to spend but the sales tax would only cost me $23 for every $100 I spend.

Seven dollars doesn't look like much, but it's $70 if I spend $1000, and $135 if I spend $1500 a month. That $135 would be enough to pay my electric bill and city utility bill for all but the three coldest months of the year.

What's wrong with my math?

Flatten
Politically we are at a point where we can flatten the tax. Dems of course are trying to reverse the progress Bush has made.

We are not at a point politically where we can go directly to a true flat tax. However, the reduction of the Cap Gains tax is very close to an effective flat tax and is the primary engine for the current economy. If the Dems reverse that sell your stock. The prospect of a Dem win is driving the market lower now. The housing crisis has already been factored in and the market is looking forward.

Not Fair Tax
Looks like big brother has found a way to screw the American citizens into non-existence.

After giving all of our domestic jobs away to the illegal immigrants, and then outsourcing the rest, we still have to pay taxes.

Brilliant.

SeekerOfTruth

You are very right. They should be on our dole, not the other way around.

Anything in the 10% to 15% range is fair, very fair and on a flat tax on income, not on spending.

Now, pray tell, how do we get there from here.??.



VIC at 2:39 am, go to bed guy.....

Hear, hear.

A flat tax of 10% on all earnings is the right approach. This means that the several million citizens overseas who would receive income from the U.S. or whatever reported source would also pay.

It means that the millionaires and billionaires would pay on what they earned each and every year. (no wonder we don't hear about it)

It means one man/woman, one vote, one military service, one life to live all pay the same thing, one flat rate tax.

All this talk about this other bill is just to drag us away from the real proposal. The IRS wouldn't be eliminated, but it would sure simplify things. And it would be infinitely more fair. The government could still send a check to low income wage earners and so forth.

I have no idea where this other stupid(call it by it's name9 came from but you, as usual are dead right. Let's hope the dopes in and out of the government finally get it one day soon.


1913 rang the bell
In 1913 we destroyed our Republic.

We not only created the IRS which centralized power but created the Federal Reserve, a corporation run by a private group of bankers (cartel) with its ownership in Europe. That too, centralized a lot of power in a small group of people. As Rothschild stated, as long as he controlled the money supply, he didn't care who made the laws.

But, we went further. We passed an Amendment to end the "voice of the State governments."

We had a Republic of "representative democracies (states) in a nation with a limited federal government. That Republic had "checks and balances."

The "voice of the people," was in the House.

The "voice of the States (through their government)" was the Senate with appointed Senators from each State appointed by their government.

The "voice of the nation," was the president, elected by an "electoral college," not popular vote.

Each was to be a check and balance on the other two to keep us from falling into the trap all democracies fall into.

We destroyed that Republic in 1913 and while it was from the 1930's on that we saw the most erosion of our Republic, the seeds were sown in 1913.

If we don't return to those checks and balances we will suffer the fate of all democracies and we will decline and we will lose much of our standard of living as a society.

We need to put the government on a diet
Imagine the fathers looking at us. The government tells us what we can eat, and what we cant eat. What we can spend and what we cant spend.
Not for nothing but WTF is wrong with us!!!!!!!!!
We should be telling them how much they can spend and what they can eat. not the other way around.
They should get 15% Max of everything I make. If they cant live on that THEY need to reduce spending not me.
To many backwords conservatives on this site.

30% vs 23%
Rather than I try, let the Fair Tax Org. explain it as this is a frequent question they get.
quote:
As the FairTax gains more national attention, questions have again arisen about whether the FairTax rate is 23 percent or 30 percent. In the toxic environment that often accompanies public policy debates, FairTax.org has even been accused by some of misleading the public, even though full descriptions of "tax-inclusive" and "tax-exclusive" calculations abound on our Web site. We hope the following explanation puts all such questions to rest -- at last.

Let’s use an example to illustrate the difference between tax-inclusive and tax-exclusive tax rates.

Assume there is a worker named Joe who earns $125 and spends all of his earnings. Let’s further assume that the government requires him to pay $25 in taxes.

If the government put a tax on Joe’s income, he would earn $125 before tax and would have $100 after tax to spend at the General Store. Thus, Joe has to earn $125 to have $100 to spend. Joe would also have to file an income tax return.
http://tinyurl.com/2lnadx
==========================

30% is 23% and 23% is 30% depending on your starting point. They don't try to hide this but, the confusion comes from the fact they are replacing a 23% income tax and to do that with a "consumption tax," on a lower amount, 30% to reach that workers before tax wage is needed.

WOW a bill that actually represents
Conservative values.
These liberal in office dont care about conservatve values. They hijcak the party on issues like abortion that they can and will never do anything about.
For to long the conservative platfrom has been "vote for me or you get abortion" and health care". Well guess we are wakeing up. A new conservative calue. "EARN YOUR KEEP"
what a great idea.

kf6eml 2
There is one other major problem. The so called fair tax is complex and mind bogging. It is very hard for the average voter to understand. It raises lot of questions and provides few strong compelling answers.

That makes it easy to attack from a political stand point.

The "fair tax" is a political loser than will kill the Rep party faster and more effectively than the War in Iraq. In the general election this idea is drano.

kf6eml
kf6eml If you are promoting the fair tax due to the fact that people will recognize the bite of a sales tax a lot faster than they will feel the pain of the once year income tax I would agree with you on that point.

Further, at least in theory, after all of the transition shocks, a consumption tax may eventually foster more savings and investment than the current system. However, that is very hard to determine given all of the manipulations of the economy that are built in to the current system.

The biggest problems are not economic arguments for or against the so called fair tax. Economists will never agree and we will never know the truth. However, if you want to attack an economic theory you have to go after the underlying assumptions. This article does a reasonably good job of that.

In econ theory the underlying assumptions create the fictional neverland results of the theory. The results are predestined by the hidden underlying assumptions. Change the assumptions and you change the results.

The biggest problems with the so called fair tax are political.

1. It is a tax increase for most voters.
2. It is big a government program that can take all kinds of unexpected twists.
3. It creates massive uncertainty during the transition period and will probably crash the global economy in the short run.
4. It is a total pipe dream and can not be implemented.
5. It can be used as a wedge issue by the Dems.

Old Man @ 12:06 PM
Sorry, Old Man, but could you please explain that to me a little better? Your logic eludes me.

"If you make $1.30, the income tax on that would be about 30 cents. if you tax $1 at 30% you have $1.30 after tax. Either way, it is still 30 cents. As an income tax it is 23% and as a sales tax 30 cents but, you still purchase a $1 item either way."

I don't see why you say "tax $1 at 30%" when the Fair Tax rate is 23%...

You dropped my income by 30 cents to start with. You're not comparing the same things.

If I make 1$ and pay 30 cents income tax, I'm left with 70 cents to spend.

If I make 1$ and spend it, I can buy something costing 77 cents and still pay the sales tax on it.

How am I worse off if I don't have to pay the income tax but I pay the sales tax?

Can you explain why my numbers are wrong?

Yes, read the book
The 30% equals the 23% income tax.

If you make $1.30, the income tax on that would be about 30 cents. if you tax $1 at 30% you have $1.30 after tax. Either way, it is still 30 cents. As an income tax it is 23% and as a sales tax 30 cents but, you still purchase a $1 item either way.

I am not for the Fair Tax since I am against the rebate but, we do need the reform

Low wage workers are in the 50% tax bracket. 35% in tax and compliance costs in the prices they pay, 7.5% payroll, 8% state and local. So, even if the final tax was 43% as he stated, they would be ahead of the game.

But, the transition period will be a killer.

The bad news is that with a collapse of the dollar, the economy would be so bad, that any transition period wouldn't be as devastating as it would be now. We are facing a crisis in a few years even if the dollar finds support now. When 78 million boomers stop paying payroll taxes and start drawing from the trust funds those taxes fund, the general tax revenues will have to pay back all the funds borrowed and the interest due on them that was also borrowed.

When we "hit bottom," during that crisis, many options, not viable now, will seem like a "walk in the park."

What is behind the “Spin”
What is behind the “Spin” that this author wishes to represent ?
Looks like a lot of “Double Talk” … Could it be that he is worried that he will have to learn a new way of thinking ?? A complete change of the Tax Code will put these “High Powered” Economist into a “Re Learn” mode .. in other words they will fear for their jobs if this were to happen, as would other such interests as Corp. Lawyers, and other present day “Tax Doctors” and beware of the one that will really have a heck of a negative influence and that is the “Lobbyists”.
Having said all of that .. Lets get out of the “Theory” of Academia to “Down To Earth” what is the most sensible. People in “Real Life” will tell You that the “FairTax” is really the only way to go.
Back 40 + years ago when I was in the Retail business for the first time, I was, as so many “Newbies” , frustrated at all the Tax rules that one had to comply with.
I had come to the conclusion that a “Flat Tax” would be the way to go but __ while venting my frustration to an older Gentleman one day he set me straight on my thinking.
“Young man you Tax what is spent” … After many hours and years I came to the conclusion that this was the only “Fair” way to go. I had one thing that all ways “Bugged” me and that was how to deal with incomes in the lower level .. I had thought of placing certain Items into a “No Tax” category .. but this had to many loop holes … the HR25 bill solved this with the “Prebate” ….
The problem as presented, of collection, is all ready taken care of in all but a couple of states .. believe me they have many ways to find out if you are cheating _ I have witnessed them in action at a couple of customers when I was a wholesale salesman.
JSC

BG:
Most people are smart enough to understand calculus. Most people do not make the effort.

It does not matter whether you are a genius or a moron if you never take the time to understand something.

Most Americans simply have the money withheld from their paychecks and hand the rest to H&R Block (or whoever) to file. They do not feel the bite because they never see the money or think about the amounts.

To say that "...that is all voters need to know..." about any issue only tells us that you deal in rhetoric and slogans, not substance. Your refusal to address the point of the prebate only reinforces this impression. If you want to remain credible, you will need to lay off the talking points and start debating substance.

Have you actually taken the time and effort to understand the Fairtax, or are you simply a reactionary who has taken up a Cause that looks good on the surface?

UNFair Tax Raise-Effective tax rate
Most Americans are smart enough to figure out their effective federal income tax rate. It is their tax paid as percentage of their gross income. For most American voters that is less than what they would pay with the UNFair Tax.

The UNFair Tax is an effective tax raise for the majority of Americans. That is all voters need to know about the UNfair tax.

All the smoke that the UNFair Tax proponents blow can be blown away with that one simple realization.
Most American tax payers and voters would be worse not better off under the UNFair Tax.


BG:
Why do you persist in trying to ignore inconvenient points of the debate?

The prebate is a refund of ALL of the taxes a person can expect to pay on purchases, all the way up to the poverty line.

What part of this is so hard for you to grasp?

Rich and poor
There is no way for the poor to dodge a sales tax. The investment class consume very little of their wealth, they mostly invest it.

The so called fair tax rips the heart out of the poor and helps the rich. Exactly where the point of income where the "rich" are better off under a national sales tax is difficult to calculate.

However, corporations and the Bill Gates/Warren Buffet types have an army of tax specialist to minimize their tax. They also can surface the profit in some tax haven and do not pay any more American tax than they have to.

Since the UN"fair tax" is a consumption tax corporations and the super rich would pay even less than they are now.

Last one. I promise.
H.R. 25 represents a philosophy of tax collection without any attendant social or economic policies.

It has a clear economic policy: Tax consumption. This strategy is used quite successfully by 48 states.
Once you introduce social policies as a basis for economic policy, as opposed to using social tendencies as a predictor of the effects of economic policy, everything goes wrong in short order.



H.R. 25 proposes a 23% “tax inclusive” sales tax rate. Sales taxes are not traditionally described in a “tax inclusive” manner. Sales taxes are traditionally described in a “tax exclusive” manner. A “tax inclusive” sales tax rate is a percentage of the total register price. A “tax exclusive” sales tax is a tax calculated on the purchase price before the tax is added. As shown below, a 23% “tax inclusive” sales tax rate is equal to a traditionally described “tax exclusive” sales rate of 29.87013%.

The income tax is presented as inclusive. At 35% inclusive, the income tax is 53.85% exclusive. Why didn't you present this view of our current tax system, I wonder...

That's enough for now, I think.

Only one more...
* The World Court could probably weigh in with respect to trading issues.

The "world court" has no authority in our country, and we would do well to remember it.


With every major conceptual change, there will be thousands of different interpretations of the rules. It would take years to sort these interpretations out. During that period, Treasury would issue volumes of rules and regulations.

This happens under our current tax codes. What, did you need anouther inch of column and couldn't come up with something real?

# Should U.S. products begin to appear in the world market place at prices significantly lower after the removal of Federal income taxes, tariff responses could be expected.

Well. It sounds so scary!
Now tell us why it is scary.
Or can you?


# With exports untaxed, U.S. goods could be 30% more expensive for Americans than the remainder of the world.

Corollary: goods are 30% less expensive for the rest of the world.
Result:
*poorer nations have cheaper goods
*Increased demand for American goods, evening out the "trade imbalance" the liberals scream about all the time
*improved GNP from all the overseas sales
*More money circulating and buying stuff here, increasing the amount collected in sales taxes.

Almost done...
*H.R. 25 could not be implemented until (1) a sales tax administrating authority was established and successfully organized and staffed in every state, (2) every lawful resident given a legitimate social security card, (3) every lawful resident registered confidentially and without fraud, and (4) this information transferred to the Social Security Administration and reviewed for duplicate social security numbers and general fraud issues.

This is what the government wants anyway.
But you miss a vital point: If someone is not registered, he still pays the sales tax (Illegal aliens, drug dealers, organized crime, etc., etc., etc.) but it is only to receive the prebate that one must register.
The problem is......?



* H.R. 25 is fraught with legal uncertainty. There are constitutional arguments that H.R. 25 would be unconstitutional with respect to constitutional limits of Federal taxing power.

The 16th amendment can be replaced with a 28th amendment


* There would be state and local challenges with respect to the exclusion of unlawful residents from the receipt of the prebate.

umm.... unlawful? maybe we could suggest to them that they BECOME lawful, or pay a premium to remain unlawful? Just a thought.

Yet more...
* H.R. 25 would result in an increase in purchasing and investing power for very high wage earners and the ability of the wealthy to earn profits from investments and reinvest without taxation while low income Americans are paying an H.R. 25 designated 30% Federal sales tax on food. The ability of the wealthy to pass along exceptional levels of never taxed wealth, tax-free, generation to generation, seems a prescription for a feudal system.

Oh, spare us from "Social Justice"
You persist in ignoring the "prebate". The poorest will have the tax paid for them, while everyone else pays for the things they consume. (above the poverty level anyway)
The evil rich will pay a helluva lot more in taxes than poor people when they buy their luxury items.
Then, too, the "rich" might not want to take the time or comply with the reporting requirements needed to get the "prebate" so they are more likely to pay more in taxes without any return!



* Under H.R. 25, while there could be a reduction of compliance requirements for wage earners and retirees, compliance activity for the self-employed and service providers would increase. If a state did not eliminate their state income tax, there would be no compliance reductions for wage earners or retirees.

This is a bad thing?
You actually WANT people to be required to report everything they do to the government?

And more...
* H.R. 25 would result in the elimination of the safety net provided by the Internal Revenue Code in reducing Federal taxes for victims of disease and disaster, the elimination of incentives to save through pension plans or investment retirement, and the elimination of credits and deductions for child care.

So we eliminate all the credits and deductions.
It may help to think of the Fairtax as a 100% income tax deduction or a 100% income tax credit.
If you aren't paying any taxes to begin with, why worry about deductions? The only thing tax credit can do is to give a poor person who never paid any taxes a "refund" which amounts to a welfare check. If you're worried about losing that, remember that the "prebate" will replace this.

More arguments...
* H.R. 25 would result in a very significant competitive purchase price advantage given to an investor purchasing a new residence over a couple wishing to purchase the same property as a home.

Once an investor sells a house to a buyer, the investor (not the buyer!) has to account to the state for the sales tax. If he lives in the house, the government can charge him with fraud: It was bought as an investment, not a residence. Give the IRS something to do now that it isn't harrassing the rest of us any more.
But I digress.
Whoever the eventual consumer is, they will have to pay the tax. Anybody who owns it before it is sold at retail won't have to pay it. How is this a problem? The investor will have to pay sales tax on any new home he wants to buy for himself. It's not like he's getting away with something.


* H.R. 25 would result in an on-going and significant reduction in purchasing power for many social security recipients with other sources of income or savings.

Hmm. By reducing the amount taken out of their pockets in taxes at the front end and giving them a prebate to cover taxes all the way to the poverty level (whether they spend that much or not) and by allowing the market to bring prices down (which will happen once the reduced tax burden on manufacturers works its effects on the market) we are reducing people's purchasing power?
If this claim isn't a flat out lie, it's pretty close!

Author has to do better than that!
Impacts on Taxpayers

* H.R. 25 eliminates any differential in the rate of taxation between the first dollar purchase over the poverty line by low income Americans and the last dollar purchase by the richest Americans.

This is what equal protection under the law means! You don't treat a poor man any differently than you treat a rich man... but the corollary is that you don't treat a rich man any differently than a poor man. To tax the "rich" more than you tax anyone else makes anyone who says "fairness" in any otherwise serious manner nothing but the purest hypocrite.
We tax the poor at a lower rate out of compassion, not "fairness."



* In any state where there is a decision to eliminate their state income tax, the combined Federal, State, and local flat sales tax rate could easily exceed 43%.

This is a good thing. Total taxes already exceed 50% in a lot of cases, and having them on a receipt where the consumer can see them - and perceive the tax hit - is the best way to get people to keep their politicians' spending in check.


* H.R. 25 would result in an immediate reduction in purchasing power upon implementation for existing savings which have previously been subject to U.S. income taxes (double taxation).

So?
Call it growing pains. After a while, there won't be any more previously-taxed assets for most people, and you wanted to tax the rich anyway, didn't you?

One of the few....
things Mike Huckabee has RIGHT is HR25.

And no one, not even the economist that created HR25, are suggesting that if passed, oversight of the government would not be needed. On the contrary, the car WILL NEVER drive itself. People will ALWAYS need to keep a watchful eye on Congress.

And THAT....
is the liberal slop that drives the masses to the trough.

Fair Tax and Hillary Care
The Fair Tax is a worse political nightmare than Hillary Care.

No one is fond of the Income Tax however even a first grader intuitively knows that paying a 23 or 30 % sales tax is worse for most regular folks than the current income tax. The 23 or 30 % rate is also a smoke screen when all of the hidden costs get added in.

The fair tax is a very good reason to vote against Mike Huckabee. He pushes this nonsense hard. Huck is a bigger socialist that the Clintons with the same ethical challenges.



What constitutes " rich "
For those whining about " tax cuts for the rich " perhaps someone should explain to you what $ amount we are really talking about here. First let me enlighten you to the fact that most MILLIONAIRES do not pay payroll taxes because most are not EMPLOYED. They make their fortunes off investments. People who make between $130,000 to $300,000 a year pay 60% of the taxes. That's not rich, that's someone who works hard for their money.

To Sawdust
Hi, again!
Forgot to tell you about the Weekly Drawing I fund, with 8 or 9 large stuffed animals, and once you win you can't win a gain until everyone else has won, juat to be fair, and that runs about $30 a week, sometimes more, but the more often you go to class, the more chances you have of winning. Sometimes that $.05-.10 an hour is very tempting, so I had to devise something that wouuld keep them coming to class. You do your best! All in a days work!

To Sawdust
Dear Sawdust,

I spend about $300 of my $24,000 a year on Beanie Babies and novelties a year. $3.45 will buy me a whole bag of gently used Beanie Babies for my clients (that's abou 8 or 9). I's rather spend it on them. But you know what, I pay my taxes, and I'll pay my taxes if they raise them, hoping that they will go to entitlements for the poor, old and didsabled. Even I have enough money to do that. I just don't want to pay for some rich or wealthy person's tax cut, you know what I mean, when there are sooooooooo many needy people out there. Did someone really mention a tax cut (again) for the rich and wealthy while we are substantially in the red, and the war goes on and on??????? And we know how it trickles down (not). If you're going to take my $3.45 spend it on someone who needs it, not one some rich or weaaalthy person, Ohhhhhhhhhh, please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pointy Headed Academic
The guy works in academia. 9 out of 10 times, that says it all about an author. What a foolish analysis on so many levels.

Correction
" imposed on them "

That's what happens when you try to eat breakfast and type at the same time. ; )

Not to mention...
how many business that have left the U.S. because of the insane government taxes imposed on would then come back? I would guess A LOT. How can that NOT be an economic boon.

One more thing
I own my own business corporation and write off everything and even I can see the benefits of HR25. I would rather not be able to deduct anything and not have to deal with the IRS. And no Mountain Rose, there won't be " government people " coming into my house to make sure I'm not selling goods without the " proper tax ". Way to fear monger.

And far more illegals by goods from stores than from the backs of pickup trucks. Nor will these invaders get the pre-bate. So stop with the BS about how HR25 will criple the economy.

It's still the economy. . .
The Government takes a part of the national Gross Domestic Product for it's use through taxation.

In our current entitlement society, those less fortunate get the government to pass some back to them.

Question is: Who qualifies to be "less fortunate" or poor, or disadvantaged, indigent, or whatever.

The old Steve Forbes' flat tax was a good answer for less government, because there were virtually no exemptions. Pay 10%, no forms, no hassle.

Who wouldn't support it? Everyone who currently receives deductions of some kind, and in the extreme example, ultimatly pays no tax.

HR 25 sounds like the same logic that says illegals hurt the economy - The black market that will blossom after HR25 will be similar to the current illegal problem--the business incentive to save huge on labor costs when it can exploit them.

Illegals do impact society, because of the drain on government resources, therefore the need for more taxes, continuing the entitlement circle.

Those most afraid of change are the ones with the most to lose. I support a flat tax, just not this one.

Jeanne-marie
If you bothered to read the book you'd know that only NEW merchandise is taxed. But then I guess you're a genius like Mountain Rose and don't need to read the book because your " mind is already made up ".

The 30% is a common deception used by those trying to kill HR25. Which incedentally was developed by the brightest economist minds in the U.S. Oh, that's right, Mountain Rose is soooo much smarter. Jeanne-marie is obviously just mis-informed. Either that or she's paying too much attention to MR.

One more thing - when the rich have their fancy dinner parties ( been to a few ) they can't write off the cost. They actually have to PAY for the food.

Ignorance on parade
The comment by cfountain72 astounds me. He/She displays a complete and profound misunderstanding of the nature of the taxes that are embedded in everything we buy. Where in the world did this idea that the 22% embedded taxes (misstated as 23%) are actually taxes corporations pay on PROFITS? If you're going to criticize the FairTax, at least try to learn what in the world you're talking about before you begin.
One more thing ... can we just end this 30% childishness now? If you want to quote the FairTax as an exclusive rather than inclusive tax, then do the same thing with income taxes, payroll taxes and the embedded taxes already present in the price of everything we buy.
Knowledge isn't painful. Ignorance is.

Mountain Rose
says that businesses would have to file reports to insure compliance, and that everyone would have the feds breathing down their necks to be sure we aren't cheating. And this is different from the existing system how?

Jeanne-Marie: You would pay $3.45 tax on the Goodwill dress, the socialite would pay $345.00 tax on the custom job. And in your mind that is the same?

The Fair tax
gives control back to the people and takes away a major "vote purchasing" vehicle from the politicians.....and that's just fine with me. As far as the complexities of such a system ....they can't possibly be worse than this train wreck we have to deal with now.

If you want to see our tax code fixed, do away with payroll tax withholding and allow everyone to receive ALL their wages and write a monthly check back to the gov't for the required taxes.

Discard the past
It seems everyone wants to apply the existing old ideas of taxation and economics to the new standard flat tax.

All money has to be "spent" at some point. That is where the 30% comes from for all parties.
I just do not think investments should be exempt. 30% retail for stocks, bonds, investment property, goods or equipment to operate a business etc..

I think we would all be amazed at how the government is currently giving away the farm to big business thru loopholes and "incentives".

Otherwise one would have to conclude that truly free markets do not work.

The most laughable is the assumption that it is somehow unconstitutional to take away, or not give the pre-tax check to illegals. I am not allowed to profit from my crimes as a citizen by writing a book about some heneous crime, so why should illegals get to profit from their ongoing crime of making american dollars illegally?

11h

Tax Equality for Rich and Poor?
Well, I agree that this Fair Tax is most certainly rediculous!!!!!! I don't think that the rich and wealthy eat any more than I do, and therefore aren't going to pay hardly any more on food taxes, FOOD TAXES!!!, than I would. Now let's see, I shop at thrift shops for my clothes and genereal household items, and I'm going to pay the same tax on my used cocktail dress for $15 as a woman who buys a new designer cocktail dress for $1500. Or my used color tv for $35 as opposed to a new large flat screen high definition tv for $2000? Wait a minute, and while I have an MA in special education teaching the multiply challenged for $24,000 a year and doing the best I can for my son, they are going to be able to inherit totally unearned income without any tax at all!!!!!!!!! And then they're going to purchase investment property without tax while I (in my dreams) am going to buy my first home and pay taxes, tell me this isn't true? Flat tax of Fat tax...you tell me. The rich and wealthy don't need the help. The lower middle class can no longer afford to buy a home; and the poor are getting poorer every year. Is this the best we can come up with for a FAIR TAX???? iT ONLY DOES WORSE WHAT OUR TAXES ALREADY DO...TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE POPULOUS POOR AND LOWER MIDDLE CLASS. Now let's start at the beginning, the poor and lower middle class don't have money, so who are we going to tax???????

FAIR TAX....
Mr ADLER ...............did you read the fair tax book ? It's not 30%....it 23%.

Sales tax vs. Income tax
Most states have a working system of sales taxes. I feel that the collection of a sales tax at the consumption consumer level is a whole lot easier to control than our convoluted corrupt income tax structure we have today. An underground black market to control, within the FairTax system, would be a "walk in the park" over trying to clean up the incredible abuse and corruption in the present income tax system. Encourage people to invest all of their earned income, taxing them only when they use their earnings to purchase product, which they eventually must, at the consumer level. The FairTax puts taxation much more in front of the whole of the people to see instead of hiding it in the present income tax system. Income tax is NOT a fair tax! The FairTax is the best proposal yet to streamline our economy in this very completive world.

tdub
I could agree, except that it doesn't get rid of ALL the taxes. 23% or 30% may be acceptable from an average worker standpoint if it got rid of ALL federal taxes and fees. This includes excise taxes, gas taxes, luxury taxes, and EVERYTHING. You would also need to provide some kind of offset for retired people who saved their entire life and payed taxes on thierincome only to have it taxed again whenthey withdraw it in retirement.

I personally feel that this rate is too high. The government should be able to get by with 10% if EVERYONE paid and there were no deductions. If the government could not live off of this then the government needs to tighten it's belt.

It is far better to hold Congress
accountable for their reckless spending, go back to teaching virtue and character in the schools, as well as teach kids skills that they can use to be successful in their REAL adult lives instead of the Marxist nonsense they are being forced to swallow.

Stop already with the obscure attempts to fix problems that should be addressed head on!!!

Author has not done his homework pt 2

For corporate competitiveness, removing the reams of lawyers and compliance costs GAMING the CURRENT system is also going to have downward pressure on prices. This is the biggest example of getting government out of the way and letting the market work.


For state compliance concerns... If the Fair Tax works and makes sense, there should be social pressure on the states to model something similar. The presumption is that the current state income tax is as good or better than the federal income tax program? Is it not possible that there is a better answer for the state as modeled by the Fair Tax?

Even if the states do not wish to regulate, the immense IRS staff can be restructured to handle these matters, and I hazard a guess that they will be able to do so for much less than the current cost of business to the government - ie... all taxpayers. And presumably their jobs will be much happier not having to deal with miscreant tax dodgers and nasty personal audits.

Nope, the article tries to sound like a deep analysis of the Fair Tax, but the author has not only not done his homework, he has not realized the social needs that the program does try to meet.

Author has not done his homework
EVERYONE pays taxes in this plan, with an allowance for poverty level needs built in. That means that the billionaire who inherited his wealth and does not have INCOME to tax is still taxed. It means that everyone is taxed at the same rate based on CONSUMPTION and not pandering to the lower class by shifting the ENTIRE tax burden on the middle and upper class.

The embedded tax prices have to be taken out of the cost of a product before you apply the Fair Tax. That includes, for the poster above, not just the existing taxes and compliance costs, but also the ripple effect on the costs of items purchased in manufacturing.

The Fair Tax makes it implicitly clear where the costs of government come from instead of cloaking it from us by "Embedding" taxes in the cost of goods. If you think the tax rate should legitimately be 10%, you do realize in today's system that every tax on a corporation gets passed to you in the cost of the product? The 23% figure is a result of careful study of the effects of the tax and the needs of the government to maintain existing spending needs.

As a force for social change, when the Fair Tax is removed from being an embedded, hidden tax, and is out in the open, voters have to become more socially conscious. They get to see, up front, the effect of their policies because when they demand more services from the government they will see the exact effect when the Fair Tax has to be adjusted.

I think this is a GOOD thing. It forces people to think of the consequences of their politics and will hopefully change people's expectations of government from doing something, to doing it well because they can not hide from the bottom line. Instead of being a "socially conscious" non-Income tax paying member of society, they will be part and parcel of the whole thing.

Businesses pay no taxes...
...individual customers do,upfront or in hidden costs.No matter how you slice it,we are going to pay the taxes.

Another thing
If anyone thinks that the underground economy will finally be taxed by charging federal taxes at the cash register are naive about the resourcefulness of the natural born cheaters.

This system would present the underground economy a chance to grow and flourish. With retail prices so high, a thriving black market would spring up in people's garages, in the backs of pickups, and in rented apartments. Because no tax will be charged on these underground sales, prices will be 25% less than in the stores.

So what will happen then? An enormous bureaucracy that investigates everyone to be sure you aren't selling anything without paying taxes. You think the IRS is powerful now? Wait until they have the authority to search your home WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW. Don't forget that the regular due process laws don't seem to apply to the IRS, who can seize your property without a court order.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

Turtle- I have better things to do
than read the book, because my mind is made up.

This so-called "Fair Tax" is a bad idea for no other reason than the nightmare it would be to change everything over to a different system.

The worst thing this proposal does is place an undue burden on the retailers, who will be under federal scrutinity constantly.

I have noticed that everyone thinks that what the other guy does is easy. Has anyone here ever worked in retail? Do you know all the bits and pieces that have to be tracked and enventoried, and all the paperwork that has to be done already?

Add to this, the feds breathing down your neck to make sure that they get all the money they feel they deserve!

Fair Tax
More smoke, less knowledge; read the book!

A Fairer Tax
The problem with the Fair Tax is that it should be ten percent (at most), not 23 percent. We need to reduce government spending and taxation significantly.

23%
cfountain72: The 23% is the amount of federal taxes in the cost of the item, not 23% of gross profit by the manufacturer. I.E., $100 sales price, $23 is embedded in the cost called federal taxes. Please read the book.

Fair Tax opponent smoke screen
First off let me say this. This pitiful attempt to derail the Fair Tax Act is at best misleading, at worst a total intentional distortion of the facts. Rather than attempt to address each and every point, let's point out that they are all wrong since the writer uses 30% instead of 23% of the retail figure. Hmmm, let's see, a man works in Texas, makes $500 a week, has a family of four and gets the prebate of $480. That should be $2480 take home a month (it's February) and no ducts. With the current plan the man has federal with holding and no prebate. Which system will be better for him? I bet he would take the higher figure. Let's lay it on the line, this is about the 535 people in DC and the lobbyists wanting to keep their power. They are scared to death of the Fair Tax. It puts the power in the hands of the people. Also, state sales taxes have no impact on the sales price as they are there already. State income taxes are there also. We are dealing with federal collection of taxes, not states. You can see the intentional misleading by the author with ease. The Fair Tax Act was designed to be revenue neutral for the federal government and it does just that and more. 15 out of last 16 quarters the Fair Tax would have collected more revenue than our current system. This economist wannabe Hank Adler is dangerous.

I dobn't like the fair
tax either but I don't believe most of what is written above. I think it is bad because it is too high and the it appears "investors" will pay no tax.

I think that a flat tax of 10% on all income is the answer. The government would spend based on that 10%, not based on what it wanted.

Misrepresenting the FairTax IMHO
If you made it through all that gobbledy gook to read these comments check this out and ask yourself if it makes sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhAO8-vRjHA


Bob Brinker of Money Talk & Markettimer
thinks the so-called "Fair Tax" is a stupid idea. All you are doing is trading one bureaucracy for another one that may even be worse.

I agree with him!

If you disagree with me, stop by my blog and argue with me about it on my latest post.

23% on profits, not costs...
Hi Myrnice,

This is often mentioned by Fair Tax proponents (who should know better), but I don't think it carries any water. They claim corporations pay 23% (or whatever number) in taxes, and if removed, they could lower the cost of their goods by 23%.

Problem is, that is 23% on their PROFITS, not their COSTS. Most company's taxable profits rarely exceed 15% (most are under 10%, some even lose money over the course of a year).

So, if I have $115 in sales and $100 in expenses, and I pay 23% in corporate income taxes, my tax bill would be $3.45 (23% of $15 profit). No matter how you slice it, taking $3.45 off of my sale price of $115 is a reduction of only 3% in the cost of you would pay for the good.

Social security taxes are about 7% of payroll, and only on the payroll below $95k per employee. Payroll varies from company to company, but it is never 100% of a company's costs, so that effect does not bring us to 23% savings either.

This is a simplified illustration, and I'd be happy to hear how we get the rest of the 23% savings. But I think it'd be pretty hard to get there.

Of course, if we cut Federal spending back to late 1990's levels, we could consider the elimination of Federal Income Taxes entirely...but only 'he-that-shall-not-be-named' has the guts to consider that. ;^)

Peace be with you (and Happy Thanksgiving).

HR-25
One item that I did not detect in the paper was the removal of the existing value of the embedded taxes which will reduce the cost of goods when there is no longer any on the company and not matching Social security taxes on employees of the company. I understand this would be about the same amount as the 30% (or 23% embeded sales tax). This would cause the price oc the goods to remain about the same after HR-25 as they were before HR-25.
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