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Monday, October 13, 2008
Guy Benson :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama: Living in the Past on Iraq
by Guy Benson
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            Barack Obama's lectures on Iraq are insufferable.  If you ask Obama, every social ill, international crisis, economic hardship, or spilt glass of milk is somehow traced back to a war that "should never have been authorized, and never been waged."  Compounding conservatives' frustration is the reality that John McCain never seems interested in defending America's original effort to topple the Hussein regime.  McCain's reluctance to do so is understandable to a point, considering the current unpopularity of that decision, but his unwillingness to expose Obama's credibility gap on the larger question is vexing.

            The heroic sage mantle Obama has claimed on this issue is absurd.  He was neither courageous nor prescient on the war in Iraq.  When the war resolution passed Congress in 2002, Obama was a part-time state senator representing an overwhelmingly liberal, antiwar district.  It seems obvious that a man in his position condemning a controversial war initiated by a Republican administration was not even remotely a profile in political courage, his repeated self-congratulation about his “courage” notwithstanding.  Are we really to believe that a man whose local political career was launched at the home of an unrepentant leftist terrorist was really sticking his neck out in opposing the Iraq war?  It's remarkable Obama's managed to get away with this self-serving fairy tale for more than a year. 

This storyline ultimately led Obama to publicly proclaim that opposing the war was the single most "gut-wrenching" decision he's ever made in his entire life.  If that's so, how is he remotely qualified for an office that demands far more difficult choices on a daily basis?  Apparently we're supposed to admire him for agonizing over whether to rhetorically condemn a Congressional war resolution on which he had absolutely no vote.  What bravery!  The notion that a community organizer-cum-local politician somehow had the geopolitical expertise to identify and reject the faulty intelligence that fooled Washington's best and brightest—including his running mate—is laughable.  But don't let common sense get in the way of a good narrative.  His pristine judgment is not to be questioned. 

As he campaigns across the land seeking the presidency mere years after his valiant stand, Obama harshly criticizes "George Bush's war" at every opportunity.  When John McCain points out the obvious—that he's infinitely more knowledgeable about world affairs than a freshman Senator with no substantial accomplishments–Obama throws McCain’s Iraq war vote back in his face as if it's the ultimate trump card.  John McCain's judgment got us into this war, Obama intones, so why should Americans trust him?  McCain ought to return fire:

"Senator Obama is hopelessly stuck in the past on this issue.  It is no longer relevant whether his running mate, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, and dozens of Congressional Democrats exercised poor judgment by voting to liberate the people of Iraq.  That vote occurred way back when my opponent was showcasing his impeccable judgment in Chicago in dealing regularly with Tony Rezko, who's now a convicted felon.  This is the 2008 election, not the 2004 election.  Let's not fight years-old political battles while our troops are in harm's way, especially with victory within our grasp—no thanks to my opponent, by the way."

McCain is right to hammer away at the surge.  Unlike the original vote, over which Obama had zero influence, this issue offers a genuine apples-to-apples comparison.  Both McCain and Obama were members of the US Senate when the surge was proposed and voted upon.  McCain championed the strategy; Obama predicted it would not only fail, but would increase violence on the ground.  What a visionary.   This is a candidate who steadfastly refuses to admit he was wrong on the surge.  This is a candidate who selected a running mate who voted against the first Gulf War, in favor of the 2003 conflict, then against the spectacularly successful troop surge (in other words, 0-for-3 as far as prevailing conventional wisdom is concerned).  This is a candidate who, after wrongly forecasting a catastrophic failure of the surge, is now calling for the same basic strategy to quell violence in another country—while still denying it worked in Iraq. Yet, incredibly, this is a candidate who lectures John McCain about judgment. 

On foreign policy, Obama is a one-trick pony.  At the tedious "townhall" debate in Nashville, he managed to turn his responses to nearly every foreign affairs question into a diatribe against the decision to authorize the war:

Q. Is it wise for a presidential candidate to publicly announce his intention to launch incursions into the sovereign territory of an ostensibly friendly nation like Pakistan? 

A: Well, we wouldn't have to worry about Al Qaeda's leadership setting up shop in that mountainous region if we hadn't gotten "distracted" in Iraq. 

Q: Should we send more US forces to Afghanistan? 

A: Yes, especially once we get them out of Iraq, where we took our "eye off the ball." 

Q: How should we deal with Iran's nuclear ambitions? 

A: They must not be allowed to attain such weapons, but it's really too bad that their influence has increased considerably due to our reckless invasion of a neighboring country. 

Q: What's your favorite ice cream flavor? 

A: Cookies & Cream, which would taste even more delicious if we hadn't rushed to war in Iraq, thus straining our alliances all over the world. 

Obama even squeezed in a shot at the Iraq war when answering a question about Russian aggression in Georgia.  

To his credit, Tom Brokaw managed to pry Obama away from his thoroughly-flogged talking points on one fleeting occasion.  He asked what the “Obama Doctrine” might look like on the issue of US intervention designed to prevent or halt genocide abroad.  Obama replied, “When genocide is happening, when ethnic cleansing is happening …and we stand idly by, that diminishes us.”  He also cited America’s “moral obligation” to get involved in such situations.  This position is defensible and reasonable, but it doesn’t square with his previous words and actions on Iraq.  As Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby points out, Obama himself said last July that preventing genocide in Iraq was not a sufficient reason to keep US troops in that country.  Evidently, he believes the war in Iraq is so uniquely terrible that the total withdrawal of our forces from that specific country trumps any possible human costs—not matter how grotesque.

Now is the time for John McCain to put an end to this nonsense about Obama’s supposed “judgment to lead.”     

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About The Author
Guy Benson is the host of The Guy Benson Show on 560 WIND-AM in Chicago.
 
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Election debacle
Hopefully, after this election debacle is over, Republicans representing this hair brained thinking will get thrown out and Republicans with a real Conservative agenda in foreign policy and domestic matters will make inroads in Congress.

So the violence is down this year. Either the Shiites have consolidated their position in which case it remains down, or the Sunnis and Kurds will resist, in which case the violence will go up.

In neither case is there any constitutional development going on. And in neither case are we going to have an ally.

There has only been one case of constitutional development outside of Europe, (and by extension America) and that was in Japan in the 1860s, only because they came under pressure from Europe as they were on a major trade route. And the constitutional development did not start with elections. It started with the adoption, almost verbatim, of European land division and property rights. None of the constitutional democracies in Europe started with elections. They all started with land division and land reform.

So the idea you were ever going to have constitutional development in Iraq because you held elections was recognized from the very beginning, by any Conservative worth his/her salt, as absurd.

Obama and Posturing
There's a big drive, no doubt from Obama operatives and media dupes, to attempt to validate Obama's goofy shifting positions on Iraq. The thrust of this disinformation campaign is following one of these lines: Maliki endorsment of Obama plans, or Bush and McCain using Obama withdrawal plans, or plans being negotiated between Iraq and US mirror Obama plans. It's a full court press attempt but a simple review of Obama actions and statements on Iraq shows that he has never had the ball and doesn't know where the basket is located.

History shows that the dems in general and Obama in particular supported an immediate surrender in Iraq back in 2007 with total withdrawal by March of 2008. His continuing shifts on Iraq surrender are weak pathetic political posturing. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/ 01/30/AR2007013001586.html?nav=emailpage Quote from Wash Post article: "Obama's legislation, offered on the Senate floor last night, would remove all combat brigades from Iraq by March 31, 2008."

This weasel will change his position as quickly as the tides change in the Chesapeake Bay. What would this proposed withdrawal have meant in an historical sense? No surge, no success, retreat, surrender, humiliation, Al Qaida with a permanent effective foothold in Iraq, and a concentration of jihadis in Afghanistan attempting to drive NATO out, in other words a devastating setback in the War on Terror.

Would this defeat have mattered to Obama? Certainly not. His goal is political power and he'll do what ever is necessary to obscure his true socialist agenda in order to attain the goal. Obama would be no better than Dennis Kuscinich or Barney Frank as commander-in-Chief.



Obama and a Stopped Clock
Would someone please enlighten me as to how anyone can declare Obama correct about Iraq without laughing out loud? Here is a guy who introduced legislation back on January 30, 2007 that would have withdrawn all combat troops from Iraq to be completed by March 31, 2008. That computes out to 16 months. He has, to the best of my knowledge, not wavered from that number since. So, from where did this military genius pluck the number 16, and why, with all that has happened since January 30, 2007, has the number not been adjusted?

A stopped clock reads the correct time twice a day. The alleged agreement of Prime Minister Al Malaki to the 16 month withdrawal number is no more than a stopped clock coincidence. Six months ago when Obama was declaring a 16 month withdrawal, was he correct? NO. Was he correct 5 months ago, or 3 months ago, or 8 months ago or 4 months, 5 days, 13 minutes and 12 seconds ago? NO. Please deliver me from these pompous goofy liberal pundits who say that McCain, Malaki, and others are following Obama’s lead and endorsing his withdrawal timetable. The clock has been running ever since he introduced his irresponsible piece of legislation back in 2007, and he has been consistently wrong every moment since then, including right now. The time for withdrawal will come when the conditions on the ground and the political situation in Iraq dictate withdrawal, not when an inexperienced community organizer from south Chicago plucks a number from a place where the sun don’t shine.

http://eternaledge.blogtownhall.com/

Conservative Joe is right
The only reason to keep talking about how we got into Iraq is to understand how not to make such costly mistakes in the future. I don't think we have had that honest discussion - from either party. Obama absolutely gets credit for seeing that this was a "dumb war" and having the guts to say so when most of his party (including Hillary and Biden) did not. John McCain gets credit for saying that Rumsfeld was a disaster and that the Surge would work (at least for security, maybe not so much for political reconciliation). But we still need, as a nation, to wrestle with how 70+% of us were convinced to start a proactive war which simply created a power vacuum that we have had to back-fill and will need to continue doing at tremendous cost of lives and dollars for some time. I was part of the 30% that thought it was insane to start this war, but I'm just as guilty because I didn't do anything about that conviction. Guy Benson can try to belittle Obama's stand, but what did he think and do at that moment?

Really?
Grape Guy:Obama absolutely gets credit for seeing that this was a "dumb war" and having the guts to say so when most of his party (including Hillary and Biden) did not.

It was just exlpained to you that poeple like Hillary and Biden would be voting right into the face of intelligence that Saddam was a threat and ANYONE voting against it would have to hope that vote couldn't be hung around their political neck to an angry mob after it was proved to be painfully true in the future. A HUGE GAMBLE. No one wanted a 9-11 brought back to their feet in Congress. Political Death.

Everybody but Obama who HAS BEEN EXPLAINED didn't risk a think coming out against the war. HAVE THEY EVER BEEN ABLE TO HANG HIS PAST ON HIM FOR ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!

He knew he had only one hope and that was to come from the far left on the issue and hope he could defend (as it turns out he doesn't need to defend anything he does).

I bellylaughed when I heard him say it was the most gut-wrenching decision along with the author. Only left wing LOONS think it was a hard decision for him.

Splitting The Ticket
For or against the Iraq war is based on the UN's view of Iraq, and that is the reason for invading it? If so, remember that the UN has never been correct. Iraq was invaded to protect the mid-east oil supply. That is all there is to argue. Those for the war -- please notice that Iraq is not located next to the US where you will find Mexico and Canada. Europe going to was against Iraq? I would understand that a little more than the US digging a grave for our values and money. But Europe would rather we pay in blood and money than they. A question of the day -- Should Europe have gone to war with Iraq to free its people and take down the WMD regime?

RAACIST
Cookies and cream? Oreo? Another thinly veiled racist comment?

I watched the "debate"

I watch the town hall debate and when it was Obama's turn, he seldom answered the question, including the "Obama Doctrine" (which appears to be talking them to death). He would launch off into prepackaged talking points that had little to do with the specifics of the question.

The man scares me.

Finally
Someone said what I had been thinking about Obama all along. Who cares what he thought about the war as an Illinois state senator? Who knows how he would have voted if he had actually seen the reports and had been in a real position to vote on the war resolution?

If the polls had shown that the American people were overwhelmingly in favor of the Iraq war, Obama would now be saying how much he did to help the war effort and that he voted for it.

Stuck on Stupid
BH Obama continues to spout the same non-sense time and again about his "noble" stand against the Iraq front in the War on Terror.

McCain should inform him that we are winning the war despite the kicking and screaming of Kennedy, Pelosi, Reid and now him.

BH Obama like his fellow Dem's are quite simply STUCK ON STUPID!

BHO
typical liberal, reactionary socialist.

IOW - "Stuck on Stupid"

Obama's judgment
If Obama had his way, the terrorista would still be using planes to destroy our landscape and they could continue to bully us, as war is not an answer to these threats, just "let's talk" and hope it works! Why would genocide not be an issue in Iraq, but in Africa? His words seem to be programmed against our interests, just his!

The Iraq War
Helped along by the same crowd that wants to vote Plain/McCain in. Obama had seen that a war in Iraq would be disastrous and stood up, when everyone els was saying the opposite, to say wait a second. Now we have thousands of dead children, some who have to work as sex slaves in Syria and millions of homeless and refuges. The war that Bush?McCain and the evil neocons unleashed is just starters. They want more war, next will be Iran and then, if all hell doesn't break out, in the Caucasus. McCain and NPAC feel its our right to do this because we won the cold war.

McCain's Top Foreign Advisor

"We already know that in the years just before the invasion of Iraq, Randy Scheunemann, now John McCain's top foreign policy aide, was part of the circle of advisors and operatives around Ahmad Chalabi, the Iraqi exile who used bogus intelligence to sell the war. Over the last few days we've spoken to associates of Chalabi's and Scheunemann's from those years to fill out the picture of the working relationship between the two men."


and then, see his finger in the recent Georgian fiasco.

"While Aide Advised McCain, His Firm Lobbied for Georgia
Campaign Dismisses Timing of Phone Call, Contract"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/0 8/12/AR2008081202932.html

-
Wendell Berry

Farmer, Essayist, Conservationist, Novelist, Teacher, Poet,

“The most alarming sign of the state of our society now is that our leaders have the courage to sacrifice the lives of young people in war but have not the courage to tell us that we must be less greedy and wasteful.”




Question for Obama Fans
If you don't like the war in Iraq because it costs too much in dollars and lives, will you like the escalation of the war in Afghanistan that Obama is proposing? Given the size and terrain of Afghanistan, surely, it will cost many more millions per month and many more lives (both American and Afghanistani) for a much longer period of time. Is that OK with you?

a WOT solution for Obama
Frankly, mr. obama doesn't know what to do about anything except talk.
So I think a solution to this pesky AlQaeda problem would be to negotiate with them. Tell them they can do anything they want if they just change their name.
THen he could give a speech about having wiped out AlQaeda.
The perfect liberal solution: call it something different, and it's not what it is (depending on the meaning of the word 'is', of course). Examples: preconditions/preparations, abortion/choice

McCain Victory Easily within Grasp
I’m an organizational psychologist and pollster. Notwithstanding what the MSM reports to demoralize and deactivate Republicans, I assure you that this is a VERY CLOSE race; it’s two points in either direction after adjusting for (1) the Bradley Effect and (2) and what is likely is exceptionally high McCain-Palin turnout based on fear and loathing of Obama’s radical socialist ideology, Chicago machine origins, terrorist connections and black separatist church roots. This second factor CANNOT be captured in the current sampling frames. Bottom line, if the McCain-Palin registered voters participate at a 75% level, the election is ours.
Stir the turnout motivation by speaking directly to everyone about how an Obama presidency would be a disaster for America through legislation, executive orders and judicial appointments:
X A massive tax increase on small business owners sucking the life out of an already weakened economy and sending us to the brink of a depression
X Increases in capital gains rates—another economy-killing measure
X An end to any reasonable prospects for offshore drilling for oil and gas to create energy independence
X Open borders, subsidized college tuition, social security and drivers’ licenses for illegal aliens
X Unfettered far left policy making power in the troika of Obama, Pelosi and Reid
X Reinstitution of affirmative action and racial quotas
X Increased federal funding for abortions
X Restriction of the Bill of Rights with union thug card-signing intimidation and imposition of the inappropriately labeled Fairness Doctrine
X A weakened defense and foreign policy , including derailing the Reagan Strategic Defense Initiative
X Appointments to the Supreme Court, Courts of Appeal and District Courts that distort the Constitution.

Have his followers thought about this?
Solidly anti-war.
Wants to pull out of iraq and use all that money to pay for his programs.
But NOW he wants a surge into afghanistan. Are the soldiers coming home or surging into afghanistan going to go without pay? It would be their patriotic duty?

Obama would have called Gettysburg a "distraction". Iwo Jima was just a tiny island. He doesn't know that wars are generally fought on several fronts at once, and on multiple battlefields - at the same time.
You honestly trust him to prosecute military action?
Sheeeesh.

florida
I'd like to try to answer a very important question by you.

Yes, I would be for money spent in Afghanistan, and, it sounds like our commanders there have great ideas on how to spend it. You may have heard of the many Madrases that sprung up on the boarders and are recruitment centers, more or less, for these murdering hordes. We should encourage the building of more schools, I myself, have donated money to these projects. The Afghan government also, can not be left, as the Iraq one, because things are hardly in control and they want us there. Karzia's brother just got caught as some big drug lord. I don't think we should just forget Iraq either, by any means, but as we saw with the awakening Councils, they hate AQ more than we do.

SunThe1

Obama up by 10%
the fat lady is getting ready to sing... and it aint' Dixie!

Where all the blow hards, when your president Bush reamed the country for all its worth. Bunch of pansies.

Iraq is about sending troops in harms way based on a lie. The strain on our troops has cost them marriages, bankruptcy, mental anguish and physical trauma. Sending troops into harms way without properly having the physical and mental help necessary when they come home is a sin. That is a crime and an ongoing one. Bush never had enough oversight on the money sent to Iraq and even tried to not renew the government oversight on corruption there. Billions are knowingly to have been lost. This is taxpayer money. When one aggregates the total cost of this debacle, it is reasonable to suspect that McCain will do more the same. This is an insult to all American soldiers and shows a lack of compassion. General Patreus just came out not supporting the McCain plan for Afghanistan. This was at a Hertitage.org meeting. So much for his experience.

The Bush Administration has lied so much and hid their iniquity by classify information of their corruption, hiding research that didn't support their ideology, that they looked more like a socialist regime. So don't project the sins of Bush onto Obama. We need a positive change.




The -1
As a Liberal Obama surrounds himself only with libs/Marxist/radicals, he’s never compromised any far left idea.
This reminds me of an ancient Buddhist quote, “It’s easy to be a holy man on top of a mountain” it takes no courage in life to live in the realm of fantasy never to come down from the unchallenging mountain.
Obama has lived most of his life in the halls of academia and that is far from the real world, it requires no courage to hide in law books and Marxist theory knowing your thoughts will never be questions.

END THE CHARADE NOW--SIGN THE PETITION
Join the ever increasing numbers of your fellow citizens and stop Obama's illegal run for President:

http://www.rallycongress.com/constitutional-qualification/1 244/

CALL YOUR LOCAL TALK SHOW HOST AND REMIND THEM THAT OBAMA HAS REFUSED TO RELEASE HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE!

stupid
You guys are a bunch of stupid nut heads. Obama was one of the few people in this country who was correct about the war and for some reason he is now wrong for being right?????

Two lines of attack I see posted on this site all the time are about Obama's blind ambition to be President and some vague attack about him being a muslim operative who has been trained from birth to be our leader so they can take over the country. If he was so ambitious to become President why did he disagree with the war when almost everyone else agreed. If he was wrong (which is wasn't) it would have destroyed his chances at the Presidency.

McCain was pushing the Iraq War days after 9/11, falsely linking it to Al Queda and terrorism. There was no terrorism in Iraq until we foolishly invaded and made that country a recruiting poster for Al Queda.

Obama was correct when he said Iraq increased Iran's influence in the region. When the Sunni's lost power to the Shias in Iraq, the balance of power in the region tipped because Iran is also a predominately Shiite country.

And, we did take our eye off the ball in Afghanastan to pursue George Bush's and John McCain's war in Iraq that has cost this country billions of dollars, thousands of American lives and our good standing in the world.

You can try to blame Biden or Clinton but Barack was right and McCain was wrong.

Taft #11
Barack Hussein Obama was NOT IN CONGRESS and could not vote for or against the Iraq war.

Benson
Your come-backs sound good, but don't expect to hear anything like them from the lips of John McCain.

The so called "Maverick" would rather call Obama a "descent family man" or, my favorite, "honorable". He called Obama and Hillary Clinton "Both honorable Americans" about a year ago. I nearly lost my lunch.

And it’s not just McCain. The Republican leadership as a whole has completely forgotten about how to lead and how to educate the American people with regards to their stated principles of limited government, fiscal restraint, and Constitutional integrity. In some cases, our Republican leadership has been worse than the Democrats at promoting the very things they are suppose to oppose.

McCain cares too much about his image as a moderate and too much about his standing with the MSM to express anything so negative. It’s as if Republican politicians don’t care if they lose our country to socialism, just so they get the vote for Miss Congeniality.

Dr Chaz
Obama's own organization, ACORN, has been on a voter registration drive to dwarf all drives.

I believe the Obama/Acorn coalition is recruiting illegal aliens and registering them by the thousands, so if it IS a close race, as you say, conservatives are toast because this commie sympathizer doesn't care what he has to do to WIN.

Right on!
You're so right - Obama is a broken record about Iraq and it's a sad commentary for the lives lost and those injured and still there that a U.S. Presidential candidate never appreciated their efforts to keep the terrorists on their soil and shed blood on their soil rather than allowing them to make it to our soil and shed blood on American soil! McCain gets an A+ even though the biased media won't admit it - but I will!

M Sederoff
I used to be a Republican, voted for Nixon, Regan and the first Bush. Then I saw the light, we can't keep giving all of the wealth and power in this country to the top 1% while ignoring the fiscal well being, the health and the education of the remainder.

But the real downfall of the Republican Party started with Bush II. The only reason the party chose Bush was because he had the correct last name. Then the Karl Roves of the world led a campaign that suckered in the social christians who now foolishly believe the Republican Party represents them. Most are either too stupid or too brainwashed to realize they are being used and no one in DC really cares about abortions or gay marriage, they just care about getting elected.

It was bad enough that Bush II had no qualifications to be President but he then handed over the reins of power to a bunch of neocons who destroyed our economy and led us into a losing war. The Republicans in Congress including McCain were nothing but a bunch of enablers for the Cheney crew. It wasn't until the financial meltdown a couple of weeks ago that any Republican in either House stood up against the Administration.

The party of fiscal responsibility has put our country in over $10 trillion in debt, led us to a financial meltdown through deregulation, got us into a war we can't get out of and flamed the passions of extremeists around the world through the Iraq War.

It is no wonder Obama has a double digit lead in the polls.

Rose
Obama was CORRECT about the war and McCain was WRONG.

There were NO TERRORISTS in Iraq before we invaded that country. Therefore there were no terrorists in Iraq that were going to shed blood on our soil.

Those blood on our soil guys were in Afghanastan.

The Bush/McCain war in Iraq inflamed young, poor, muslims to hate us for invading a country that did not harm us. They see us a occupiers not liberators and have become extremeists and terrorists because of it.

Sandra
Re No terrorists

I would be the Kurds would differ with you.

Sandra , which polls


Obama is ahead above 10 percent in 2 out of 8.

So I gues you are correct , double dogit in the polls (2).

PS Please be more civil in your posts.

Packrat
The Kurds were an oppressed people like many others around the globe living in countries that we have not invaded. The point of Rose's comment was to say we were fighting terrorists in Iraq so they wouldn't come here. That is not correct. The terrorists that attacked us were from Afghanastan and Iraq had no ties to them.

Packrat
At least 2 out of 10 depending on which of the myriad of polls out there you look at. You are right the rest that I could find are between 4% and 9% for Obama.

I assume your civil remark was my comment about stupid nut cases on this site. Have you read some of the comments made on this site. People can't formulate sentences, make absolutely nonsensical statements with no basis in fact, smear the left which now includes most moderates, call Obama a Socialist which he isn't, call Obama a Muslim which he isn't, say he won't provide his birth certificate which he has, call me a liar which I am not and are generally rude to anyone who doesn't agree with their extreme positions. And don' get me started on the loonies who ramble on about God and quote scipture even when it has absolutely nothing to do with the arguement at hand.

I shouldn't paint everyone with the same brush but it sure looks like most people on this site do absolutely no research on either candidate but continue to spout right wing talking points. In my mind that makes them stupid, nut cases.

Dishonesty in Politics
It is really difficult to see that only conservative Citizens of this Nation are the only persons that can see the completely dis- honesty in the Democrats and their self righteousness!

I personally can see through the lies being told by the Democratic Candidate and his, guilty as sin,left leaning at 45 degree, assistants!

I know that the tendency to prevaricate is strong in everyone. Still, there must be honor even among thieves, before there can be a consensus of opinion!

Frankly, I believe nothing the Democratic Candidate says. Nor would I trust him out of my sight!

Leob

Sandra,
"The terrorists that attacked us were from Afghanistan"

According to the 9/11 Commission Report, of the 19 terrorists directly involved in the 9/11 attacks, 15 were Saudi Arabian, 2 were from the U.A.E, an Egyptian, and 1 from Lebanon.

Your "most people on this site do absolutely no research" statement would appear to be true in your case.

Of course there are also terrorists in Afghanistan. Wouldn't common sense tell you that there would be terrorists in Iraq as well?

Obama - Living In the Past
His Cup Is Empty – His Life A Mystery

Barack Hussein has been on a long leave of absence for over 20 years, or maybe he suffers from amnesia or early Alzheimers and yet America is willing to gamble on a “dark horse” an “unknown” as President of our United States.

This man’s cup is empty, his life a mystery and the Liberal News Media are scrambling to hide his many secrets, because they are determined to play politics and spend millions of dollars to get this man in the Presidential seat.

CNN should hide their head in shame, because their news is not just biased and laced with propaganda – it shows their allegiance isn’t for their country, their children or children’s children, but for a man whose core values are radical and so extreme that many liberals are rejecting Barack Hussein Obama.


As Always, Annie


scott
yes, originally they were from Saudi Arabia but they trained and lived in Afghanastan. The brains behind the operation lived in Afghanastan and they were sent from Afghanastan under the direction of the Taliban who controlled Aghanastan at the time.

And no common sense would say the opposite of terrorists being in Iraq. Saddam was in charge and he wasn't going to let anyone with any kind of power reside in his country. If Bush and McCain were so smart about international politics they would have known that.

Papa
I love people like you who say everyone on the left is dishonest but than does not state any facts proving your point. What exact lies are you talking about?

Sandra
Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and who knows how many other countries in that region have or have had state sponsored terrorism for generations.

Address it however you wish, but that part of the world is rife with terror groups and Islamo-facists.

Going into Iraq and Afghanistan diverts manpower and resources from those terror groups that they could otherwise be using to plot their next attacks against us or our allies.

scott
You are correct about terrorists coming from many countries in the Middle East however back to the original point which was there were NONE in IRAQ. Whatever other bad things Sadam did, harboring terrorists was not one of them. Bush and McCain should have known that. Also, there are terrorists in Africa, Asia, and South America. Are we supposed to attack every country that might have terrorists in them?

Sandra Needs Glasses
Sandra offers, "I love people like you who say everyone on the left is dishonest but than does not state any facts proving your point. What exact lies are you talking about?"

Well, not dishonest. Maybe a bit near-sighted is better.

As an example, Obama, with his redistribution of wealth program, is betting that Americans are near-sighted.

His plan is to rob Peter (5% of Americans) to pay Paul (95% of Americans) -- a traditional Democratic method of buying votes. Normally, when you rob Peter to pay Paul, you just might get Paul's vote, before he thinks about it.

Of course, Obama doesn't mention that the 5% are the creators of our goods, services and jobs. That 5% will not take a pay-cut. They will simply pass on the cost to you with higher prices and less jobs.

Plus, you really don't think that Washington is going to redistribute the wealth for free, now do you? My guess for every dollar taken from citizens to send to Washington, only about 70 cents gets sent back to citizens. Obama and all of those bureaucrats get their cut, you know!

As I see it, Obama, just like the Lotto are not what they promise to be. And, like the Lotto, betting on Obama is simply a tax on ignorance.

Sandra Missed Why We Are In Iraq
Sandra offers, "Whatever other bad things Sadam did, harboring terrorists was not one of them. Bush and McCain should have known that."

We did not go into Iraq to root our terrorists. Of course, you may have missed it, but it was in all of the papers. Do a quick search and you will find a whole laundry list of reasons, but terrorists was never mentioned in the nearly unanimous declarations from Congress, nor speaches from Bush and Powell.

However, since 9/11 our patience with Arab countries famous for invading and killing others had gone to zero. So, Sadam was begging for a fight at a very timely moment in history.

It turned out to be even more precient that we invaded Iraq: it eliminated Sadam and his evil ways; it converted Lybia from aggression; it caused Bin laden to expend all his good-will in the region; we have been safe on our soil ever since; and, it is slowly created a democracy in the heart of the middle east.

Oh, and by the way, this past summer a very large cache of mustard gas, a powerfull weapon of mass destruction, was removed from Iraq. The MSN has some how not noticed that bit of news. Maybe too busy with the mess the Democrats got us into with Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac.

Very nice, indeed!

Sandra
If you truly believe that Sadaam Hussein was not harboring or aiding any terrorists, or even storing supplies and weapons for terror cells, then I will take you at your word.

But, I believe you to be very naive.

It is not a big leap of faith to think Sadaam Hussein himself was a terrorist. Like Packrat said, the Kurds would beg to differ.

Also Sandra
I would have no problem invading other countries that are known terror states, but you have to go about it the right way.

1st: Take all troops that are no longer needed in say Germany, England, Japan, and elsewhere and redeploy them to our southern border to stop the invasion from the south.

2nd: Once Iraq is handed back to the Iraqis redeploy those divisions to Afghanistan.

3rd: Start a naval blockade of Venezuela and vigorously enforce the Monroe Doctrine.

This could go into much more detail but this is all I have time for now.

ALSO! Incredible thanks and gratitude goes out to all of our men and women in the armed forces for their heavy sacrifice and dedication to the cause of freedom. You are the world's finest!
THANK YOU!!!

Please Get It Right
Guy, I would like to see you and others get this right. There is no war in Afghanistan or Iraq. Like the battles of World War II, the bulge, Philippines, Iwo Jima and Okinawa to name only a few, Afghanistand and Iraq are only battles in the world war against Islamic jihadists. The war was brought to the world by the jihadists beginning in the 70s, 30 or so years, 7 Presidents ago. The war is part of the current resurgence of Islam to achieve its 1400-year-old aims to take over the world for Allah, a worldwide caliphate, Shar'ia law, and to kill, subjugate or convert all infidels - unbelievers in the Islamic faith.
Anyone who argues otherwise is bereft of any grasp of world history or Islam.

The War
For the past few years we have been trying to bluff the Iraq's into thinking we are staying until victory. Not sure if the memo got out but these people have been fighting each other for thousands of years.

Thats like trying to out drink an Irishman.
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