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Thursday, August 07, 2008
Gregg Jackson :: Townhall.com Columnist
15 Questions Rick Warren Should Ask Obama and McCain
by Gregg Jackson
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Pastor Rick Warren, author of the “Purpose Driven Life,” will be hosting a “Compassion Forum” August 16th at Saddleback Church in California in which he will be asking questions to both presidential candidates Senators Obama and McCain. According to a recent NY Times article, Mr. Warren was quoted as saying:

“Since I’m their friend, I’m not going to give them any gotcha questions,” Mr. Warren said, adding that a typical query would be, “What’s the most difficult decision you’ve had to make, and how did you make it?”

Setting aside for the moment the fact that we as Christians have a solemn obligation to speak prophetically to the world about Christ and His Word even if what we say makes our “friends” uncomfortable,  as a Christian, interested in knowing specifically where the candidates stand on issues in relation to their Christian faith, not only do I want to know what the most difficult decisions they’ve had to make are, but how their personal relationship with Jesus Christ and His Word actually informed and influenced those decisions.

The “Compassion Forum” will focus on global poverty, HIV, and the environment, which are all issues that should be of concern to all Christians. But I hope that Mr. Warren will also pose questions regarding the great social and cultural issues of our time including abortion, embryonic stem cell research, same-sex “marriage,” and the mainstreaming of homosexuality. People can watch any of the mainstream networks for non-threatening softball questions for the candidates. Mr. Warren should use his forum as an opportunity to ask the difficult and challenging questions not often heard in a presidential campaign. This may be his last opportunity before it becomes a “hate crime” to do so.

Here are some questions I suggest Mr. Warren asks candidates Obama and McCain:

1.       For both candidates: What is truth? Who is truth? And Is that truth transcendent and applicable at all times to everyone regardless of their impulses, behavioral preferences, desires, wants, nationality, ethnicity, religious dogma, gender, race, etc?

2.       Sen. Obama, you have said you are personally pro-life but in favor of abortion rights up to and even including after delivery in some cases. Why are you pro-life personally if an abortion doesn't actually kill a baby in her mother's womb? Also, do you think Jesus would be in favor of abortion? Why or why not?

3.       Sen. McCain, you claim to be personally pro-life as well. Why? And if you believe that abortion always ends the life of the developing baby in her mother's womb, why would it be ok for individual states to legalize killing babies? Don't our nation's founding documents the Declaration of Independence ("life, liberty, pursuit of happiness") and Constitution (5th and 14th Amendments) guarantee the right to life that no individual state can violate?

4.       Sen. Obama, Do you believe that homosexual behavior, as God says in His Word, is unnatural, deviant, and self-destructive?  As a follow-up, some have said that we shouldn't worry about homosexuality because Jesus never said anything about it specifically.  Well, in case you're planning on going down the same Scriptural-ignorant road, Jesus never spoke about crack cocaine, racism, and suicide, either.  So are those things okay?  And the Gospel of John says that in the beginning was the Word, that the Word became flesh, and that the Word was Jesus Himself.  So, since "all Scripture is God-breathed and profitable" the entire Bible is about Jesus, and that's the same Jesus that affirmed marriage as one man and one woman in the Gospels as well.   Therefore, as a Christian how do you find yourself on the opposite end of an issue from Jesus?

5.       Sen. McCain, You said of same-sex marriage: "I think that gay marriage should be allowed if there's a ceremony kind of thing, if you wanna call it that, I don't have any problem with that." Do you stand by that statement, as you have also stated that you personally oppose same-sex "marriage?" You don't offer a section on your website dedicated to this issue, which continues to make national headlines. And it's also making headlines in your own state.  Recently, Dr. James Dobson expressed regret that you weren't more public in your support for a marriage initiative in your state, and since you support individual states' rights to defend the institution of marriage, do you agree with Dr. Dobson that you haven't been forthright enough on this issue?

6.       Sen. McCain, The California Supreme Court here in California recently postulated that limiting marriage between one man and one woman was unconstitutional. Shortly thereafter you appeared on the "Ellen DeGeneres Show" and didn't respond to Ellen's comment that she could "now legally get married." You have said that issues such as abortion and marriage should be decided via the voters of the individual states. Since the voters in California already voted to define marriage in 2000 (by 61%) as the legal union of one man and one woman, and since that voter approved statute has not changed and can't unless revoked by the people themselves, why did you not remind Ellen that "gay marriage" isn't legal in California because the courts' declaratory opinion, containing no court order, hasn't changed the current marriage statute which does not include any provision for members of the same sex to marry?

7.       Sen. Obama, Jesus repeatedly says in the Bible that He is the only source and giver of eternal life. (John 5:21-25, John 6:40, John 14:6, john 17:3, John 6:22, Acts 4:12, Acts 10:42-43, 1 Tim 2;5-6, 1 John 5:11-12, Rev 7:9-12). Yet as a Christian you have stated that there are many sources of truth and eternal life and that even non-Christians go to heaven. How do you reconcile your view that there are many ways to achieve eternal life in Heaven with what Jesus said (i.e. that He is the only way)?

8.       Sen. McCain, during an interview with Charles Gibson on "Good Morning America," President Bush was asked: "Do Christians and non-Christians and Muslims go to heaven in your mind?" Bush replied, "Yes, they do. We have different routes of getting there..." Do you agree with President Bush? Do Christians and non-Christians and Muslims go to heaven in your mind? What is the source of your opinion on this matter?

9.       Sen. Obama, you support federal sexual orientation non-discrimination laws and if elected would sign the proposed Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA). Under that law, religious organizations and churches like Saddleback would have to hire cross dressers and transvestites, for example, or face criminal fines and prosecution. Why should a church like ours that believes, based on what the Scriptures say, that homosexuality is a perversion of God's natural law, be forced by the government to hire practicing homosexuals or face criminal charges?

10.   Question for both: Can we ever expect God's divine protection and blessings in this country if we continue to kill 4,000 babies per day?

11.   Question for both: What specific Bible verses are most encouraging to you that sustain you in times of personal crisis?

12.   Question for both: 2 Timothy 3:16 states that “All scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” Do you agree that every word of the Bible is the inerrant, authoritative, infallible word of God? If not, how do you determine what is God breathed and what isn’t?

13.   Question for both: What has your personal salvation meant to you in your life? Who is Jesus in your life?

14.   Question for both: How much will reading God's word and daily prayer influence what you do in the Oval Office if elected?

15.   Questions for both: What is the message of the Gospel?

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About The Author

Gregg Jackson is a radio talk show host on WRKO in Boston and author of "Conservative Comebacks to Liberal Lies: Issue By Issue Responses to the Most Common Claims of the Left from A to Z."

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15 Questions?
Get a grip! They are running for President of the United States... not Pope.

Get lost robert
Sodomites are using the Government to force their degenerate sexual perversions into Government.

So go preach to them to shut up.
No one else is going to now that they have forced it into the public discussion and our government.
Not yours, and not theirs, ours.

15 questions
3 Questions
1- When does human life begins?
2- Do you think Homosexuality is a sin?
3- How do people get to heaven?

dear robert


I tend to agree with you. Mainly because I see nothing authoritative about Greg Jackson's religious leverage. Nor the Saddleback church where the two candidates are meeting. If the 15 questions were asked in that venue we'd have to figure it was Christ Himself asking them; and it won't be.

It would just be another born again guru on a stage.

The Catholic faith has the proper place for correcting the sinner. We go to a confessional. We tell the minister appointed by Christ --a priest, what is on our minds. We confess our personal failings and faults. We go there for correction and forgiveness.

Not to hear 15 questions in public.

Playing with people's souls before the TV cameras is not what Jackson calls "our solemn obligation."

I liked what Fred Thompson answered back a few months when he was asked something by a reporter. Just paraphrasing, but he told him/her that he didn't come there to reply to her question. Period.

That's what we ought to hear from McCain. About Obama I offer no insight except that he would emote and orate at length. It's what he was born for.

Unbelievable
The malicious Gregg Jackson wrote a column about religion/politics without dragging Romney and Mormonism through the mud.

I'm still waiting for his column threatening McCain not to choose Romney for VP. For this hateful man, anti-Mormon bigotry is the air he breaths.

I can't believe he wrote an entire article wtithout mentioning it once. Maybe there's hope for him yet.

Prophets without Profit
"we as Christians have a solemn obligation to speak prophetically to the world about Christ and His Word"

You have an obligation to PREDICT THE FUTURE? How does that work? Do you just stand up and start saying whatever comes into your mind?

And why didn't you all predict 9/11? I'm sure that if 10 million christians had told Bush that terrorists were going to hijack four planes and fly them into buildings (instead of just the State Department telling him), he'd have listened. You had an OBLIGATION to do that, and a lot of people died because you didn't.

Aren't prophets supposed to be divinely inspired? How do you know that your particular sky pixie agrees with the stuff you come up with? Maybe he's more interested in healthcare and education than the nonsense in your 15 litmus tests above. Maybe he's taking the day off and not paying attention (and a "day" can last millions of years).

to pedro in ny


Your 3 questions,

3 Questions
1- "When does human life begin?"

Your life began at the moment when you were conceived. In your mother's womb.

2- "Do you think homosexuality is a sin?"

Answer: It wouldn't matter at all what I think or what anybody thinks. Itonly matters what God thinks. He has revealed with NO DOUBT about it; that sexual activity between members of the same sex is a grave sin. God hates that sin. He does not hate a homosexual except when he has committed the sin. He is always ready to FORGIVE that soul, but only if he solemnly repents and resolves not to sin anymore.

3- "How do people get to heaven?"

We'll be taken to heaven after we die if we receive forgiveness of every sin we ever committed. Even many who have not lived as informed Christians. Except that for them it's not as easy.

Christ is our Savior; HE forgives our sins. He died for our sins. The norm is to come to Him, and give Him all our love. It's called FAITH.

Yet, it is revealed not only Chrisitans will come to salvation. God knows no limits. He may forgive whoever it pleases Him to forgive, for the sake of His Son Our Lord, Jesus Christ. ONLY for Jesus; because the Father will never deny Jesus anything.



Re: Prophets without Profit
Bob, you left out Mr. Jackson's complete statement..."Setting aside for the moment the fact that we as Christians have a solemn obligation to speak prophetically to the world about Christ and His Word.."
A) to speak prophetically in this New Testament era in which we live is to speak God's truth as set forth in the Bible, not to be fortune tellers or predictors of future events.
B)Mr. Jackson was speaking for himself and others who are Christians. Who else is supposed to speak for Christ and His Word? Pastor Warren is representing a Christian church and Mr. Jackson has correctly challenged him to speak for the truth on issues that concern Christians but also affect our society, nation and western civilization as a whole. After all, the US is the leader of the free world.

Candace from Illinois 12:36 PM EST
'Bob, you left out Mr. Jackson's complete statement..."Setting aside for the moment the fact that we as Christians have a solemn obligation to speak prophetically to the world about Christ and His Word.."'

You're saying that I left out "Setting aside for the moment the fact that ..." How does that make a difference?

"A) to speak prophetically in this New Testament era in which we live is to speak God's truth as set forth in the Bible, not to be fortune tellers or predictors of future events."

The word "prophet" means "fortune tellers or predictors of future events." It doesn't mean "to read aloud." Look it up.

"After all, the US is the leader of the free world."

All the more reason that we shouldn't let the primitive beliefs of part of our population pollute our politics.

the muncky glands


Munck is as usual up in his ivory tower.

"Aren't prophets supposed to be divinely inspired?"

Reply: NOT "supposedly; but TRULY. But prophesy means more than just foretelling what's to come in the future. Prophesy can merely be "speaking" for God, to His people.

YOU are probably not one of His people. Therefore, don't worry. Follow the worm pixies to your grave. We'll follow God. WHY? Because He understands us; with all our weaknesses.

"How do you know that your particular sky pixie,"

We have no pixies. God isn't a pixie; He's our Creator. He created you and your muncky glands, which apparently exude a problematical hormone into your morbose brain.

How do we know [God] agrees with the stuff you come up with? Maybe he's more interested in healthcare and education than the nonsense in your 15 litmus tests above."

That may well be. It's not for you to say.

"Maybe he's taking the day off and not paying attention (and a "day" can last millions of years)."

OK; the problem isn't HIM. It's YOUR attention that's failing, Bob Munck. We can always depend on God. On self-styled geniuses like you,

We keep you around for laughs! Lol!

Bob,
Newsflash--many words have more than one meaning, that's why they have to be read IN CONTEXT. Your definition of "fortune teller" is only one of four. Check it out:


proph·et (prft)
n.
1. A person who speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpreter through whom the will of a god is expressed.
2. A person gifted with profound moral insight and exceptional powers of expression.
3. A predictor; a soothsayer.
4. The chief spokesperson of a movement or cause.

Thanks, Bulldog and Dreadnaught
Thanks for helping Bob learn definitions and meanings. Nice to have a Bulldog around. Bob need Not Dread the Creator, or as he would call him, sky pixie.

Bulldog74 1:04 PM EST
Fair enough, except that Jackson said "Christians have a solemn obligation to speak prophetically to the world." Which of those four definitions could possibly apply to ALL christians?

#1: Can all christians possibly be divinely inspired or interpreting the will of a god? How do you know if a particular one is or isn't? What happens when they disagree with each other?

#2: Can this possibly be true for all christians? Aren't some of them just normal, inarticulate people?

#3: The standard meaning when used in the religious sense. "Speak prophetically" is the same as "prophesize," which means fortunetelling.

#4: They're all the chief spokesperson? That means that none of them are.

Note that we're not talking about the word "prophet," but rather the phrase "speak prophetically."

Jackson already wrote on article on
why McCain should not pick Romney.

Does "PC" work for Romney or what? This guy is insane always claiming people oppose Romney because of "anit-Mormon bigotry."

No PC, conservatives oppose Romney because of his far left wing record and penchant for prevarication. Here is why McCain should not pick him.

http://rffm.typepad.com/republicans_for_fair_medi/2008/07/w hat-you-would-get-in-a-vice-president-romney.html

http://www.undergroundjournal.net/members/theunderground/ad minpages/AttentionEarthlingYouMust

Now go away "PC" and do something with your life besides commenting on articles from your parent's basement and defending the Founding Father of same sex "marriage" and the 50 dollar Romneybort...Willard Mitt Zombie.

candace from illinois


Are you Candace Bergen, Madam?

It's such a pleasure to meet one whom I truly think is one of the world's most lovely women.

Signed,

Charlie McCarthy

GAYS and ABORTION in the same article!
Can it get any better ? :) only thing missing is a question about gun control...

Rick Warren
Candace, Dreadnaught, Bulldog Good points

I think the prophets Jackson was referring is
more likely evangelists, which all believers
are called to do. You dialogue with Mr Munck
shows what the Bible says, "not to throw pearls
before swine." (It's not calling you, Mr. M
a swine, it's just referring to the fact that
there are some so rebellious, and so blinded
by their own arrogant egos they will refuse to
consider the truth.)
And there are prophecies we can cite, the Bood of Revelation lays it all out.

As for Rick Warren, as far as I'm concerned
he's nothing but an "ear tickler," his forum
is just a glitzed up version of it. He's got the perfect opportunity to confront both candidates on the social issues of the day, no
he wants to discuss poverty..when Jesus said
we will always have the poor among us. He won't ask Obama why the DemonRAT has worked so
hard to ensure that people are kept poor with
such anti American policies they've pushed for
over 60 years.

I don't follow him, I think he's more an Elmer Gantry than a preacher however has he ever preached Christ and Him Crucified i.e. THE CROSS
I doubt it, if he had he wouldn't be as wealthy
as he is or have such a huge, unwieldy congregation. (Not saying there aren't mega churches that do preach the Cross, attended one in S.C. for almost a year).

Worn out subject of homosexuality
The subject of homosexuality is worn out here at Townhall and elsewhere. It has come to the time that no one cares if someone is gay/lesbian or not. There is nothing earth shattering about it.

Bob, 1:27 pm
I like your questions/observations...I'll take a quick stab at them, with the caveat that I'm no theologian, and with apologies in advance for throwing out Christian jargon and not having the time or space to explain it all.

#1 -- This goes to the heart of Jackson's quote that "Christians have a solemn obligation to speak prophetically to the world." The test of whether what we say is inspired is how well it lines up with the Word of God...if, for example, I feel "inspired" to say "Murder is ok," then I'm not speaking prophetically.
Of course, most of the time it's not that clear-cut, and when we disagree with each other we end up with denominations (but hopefully we agree on the basics of the faith).
#2 -- Yes, some Christians are normal, inarticulate people...in fact, in 34 years as a Christian I've met a lot of my fellow believers who don't even meet that standard. Still, they have the capability and the obligation do show Christ's love as He gives them the ability to do so. But no, not all godly people are deep thinkers--look at Moses, he had to have his brother Aaron speak for him.
#3 -- I have to disagree with you here as far as "fortunetelling" being a standard definition, as there are many instances of prophesy in the Bible that address personal conduct, calls to repentance, etc. and do not deal with future events. (BTW, in the Old Testament, the penalty for being found out a false prophet was stoning).
#4 -- Good point. See #1 ; since Jackson is speaking of Christians in the plural, I can't see that he had this meaning in mind.

Full of Sound and Fury,
signifying nothing.

Why bother with the elaborate questions if you are a Christian? What is not clear? B. Hussein Obama supports partial-birth murder and McCain promotes white genocide and destruction of our culture through amnesty.

Both are members of the diabolical and treasonous Council on Foreign Relations, McCain more so.

Can the author of the above article be so utterly ignorant about what the two main characters stand for and still get paid for commenting on them? I guess so.

There is only one candidate to vote for in order to have a clean conscience once this election is over: Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party.

Do you want to know what he thinks of the above questions? You can find out at the Constitution Party website where you can read their platform.

Good luck trying to find out or believing anything the other two reprobates say.

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php

Bob Munck
Hope the other post I submitted doesn't come up too (my apologies if it does-this dratted website!).

Prophecy is NOT the same as soothsaying or fortunetelling in the Biblical sense. Both of the latter are strictly forbidden by God.

Prophesying is not about sensationalism (Hal Lindseyism), either. It IS about proclaiming the Truth of the Gospel and the certainty of Christ's return in judgment. One doesn't have to have the gift of a silver tongue to preach these things-just the biblical facts.

I'm no follower of or believer in this Rick Warren fellow-believe me I've a healthy skepticism of these pop-Christianity figures. I can't say I agree with the questions the author of this column has laid out either because Martin Luther said it well when he said it were better to be ruled by a wise Turk than a foolish Christian.

Hope this helps; keep asking.

Bulldog74 3:04 PM EST
"if, for example, I feel "inspired" to say "Murder is ok," then I'm not speaking prophetically."

That could imply that if you say "murder is not ok" then you are speaking prophetically. By extrapolation, if you say anything that's consistent with your faith, you're speaking prophetically.

Of course, you have the complete freedom to define the terms any way you want, but surely that demeans the concept of "prophecy." If "prophet" means the same thing as "believer" then it has lost its cachet.

"Of course, most of the time it's not that clear-cut, and when we disagree with each other we end up with denominations (but hopefully we agree on the basics of the faith)."

More likely the basics of the faith are defined by those parts of it that you can all agree on.

AliveInHim: "Prophecy is NOT the same as soothsaying or fortunetelling in the Biblical sense. Both of the latter are strictly forbidden by God."

So all those prophets talking about the coming of the messiah were apostate? And all the prophecies of the apocalypse, the return of christ, etc. are all invalid? That can't be right.

Narrow view...
Those are some mighty narrow view questions. I'm a conservative and even I'm uncomfortable with the implied intent of some of them... and I've had a pretty thorough religious education as a Christian. This is not a Country of only Christians. I'm sure the author mearly wanst to reaffirm the faith of both men, but I am reminded of a treehugger (his term) friend's statement that he knows many, many non-Christians who are afraid to admit or discuss their faith for fear of overt or covert descrimination for it. These include Jews, Muslims, Wiccans, Druids, Agnostics, and even Catholics, Protestants, and Mormons.

Sadly, this article proves, and it kills me to say it, that he's right, they do have cause to fear.

dark matter for sure

I see your matter as quite dark,

Why call yourself Christian if you're here demagoging lies?

One candidate is NOT about white genocide. Nor are we losing your beloved "culture" through amnesty. (If only we had that opportunity.) A liar and a demagogue is hardly the model Chistian.

What's more, the so-called Constitution Party is no better than Ralph Nader's party or the once mighty Confederate States of America. All of them are Pie in the Sky.

Bob Munck
...the blind rage you feel towards Christianity needs to be dealt with. There is help, try getting it. Maybe then you will be able to look at the issues objectively without resorting to the kind of stupid, angry statements you make against the very belief system that drove the founding of this Nation. You sir, are an angry, mean spirited, illogical fool.

onewiseguy 4:38 PM EST
"...the blind rage you feel towards Christianity needs to be dealt with."

Where are you seeing blind rage?

"You sir, are an angry, mean spirited, illogical fool."

Heh.

While You're Asking
Ask Obama what he meant in an Indiana(?) speech today when he told a 12 yr. old girl, "America's not the country it used to be...uh- uh- ah...I mean...it's not what it coud be. I don't want that future for my daughters."

1. Does he think it used to be better? If so, when?

2. What kind of future America does he want for his daughters?

The Dems have been laughing at Bush's blunder through pronounciations (and such) for years. Almost every night Letterman and others play clips of the President stumbling over his words.

Let me tell you, he ain't got nuthin' on Barack Obama.

This dude not only stutters and stammers over his words, he makes the most IGNORANT STATEMENTS I have ever heard come out of ANY politicians mouth.

"If everybody would just inflate their tires...and...and...and...and...get a tune-up..."

Barack Obama is a walking, talking GAFF GENERATOR!!

Does anybody sense a political MELTDOWN?

The "anti-America" Candidate
"Goddamn America"-Rev. Jeremiah Wright

"I wish we could have done more."-William Ayers

"America's a mean country in 2008."-Michelle Obama

"America's not what it used to be...and...and...and...and...it's not...what...it could...be. I don't want that future for my daughters."-Barack Obama

The first "Anti-America" presidential candidate in American history.

I like these questions...
I would like to see the responses of each candidate to these questions. It won't change my mind...I cannot vote for anyone who advocates abortion...but it would be interesting to see their answers anyway.

Swampfox
Yes I agree that homosexuality is no longer shocking.
Honesty is no longer important
Integrity is hackneyed
Manners are old fashioned
and Stealing is only bad if you're caught!
What else do you think we should accept in the future?
Murder perhaps.....
Paul PA

Revision on Obama Comments...
I apologize. In my 2 previous posts I misquoted His Husseiness on the comments he made today to the 12 year old girl. Here is the corrected statement:

"America's no longer...uh...what it could be..
...or what it once was. That's not the future I want for my daughters."-Barack Obama

HOPE...CHANGE...HOPE...CHANGE...HOPE...CHANGE

No further commentary on this statement necessary.

Bob Munck
God gave Adam the Promise/Prophecy concerning the Messiah. Clearly, he kept that train moving even though he was generations ahead of Moses' recording of same. Noah also prophesied-God warned him of the coming Flood (which Christ verified as true historical fact) and Noah obeyed God and prepared, even while he warned the people. OT prophets usually received their revelations (some in apocalyptic language, others in more prosaic form) directly from God and their consistency and fulfillment speaks for itself. Every OT ritual was a form of prophecy because while they emphasized man's fallen state, they also reminded men of the Promise of the Deliverer. In the NT, the writer of Hebrews tells us that "in these last days God has spoken to us through His Son" (paraphrase). Christ is the last Word and no more prophecy will be forthcoming excepting that of the End, which Jesus Himself prophesied.


So no, there is no contradiction there.


Sorry, Paul.
Paul, I am sorry to see that your feel that way. Personally, I don't put up with those who are not honest and lack manners.

Mad as Hatters
AliveInHim writes: "God warned him of the coming Flood (which Christ verified as true historical fact) "

Sure he did, Alive. Can you say "circular reasoning"?

And as for dreadnut's "NOT "supposedly; but TRULY. But prophesy means more than just foretelling what's to come in the future. Prophesy can merely be "speaking" for God, to His people."

Mad as hatters the lot of 'em.

to the clueless mellorsj


"A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house."

That is wisdom of Jesus, addressing those like you-- who won't believe. All the kindness and tolerance given you in this country has spoiled you, instead of making you humble. You are a beneficiary of Christ's holy teachings. But you hate Him.

When old Victorians made you stay in a closet you were respectful. You did your mischief in secret. Now because we're Christians taught to love even the sinner, and reject hatred, you call us mad.

You think that ...
this is "kindness" or "tolerance" when you attempt to take away our civil rights? Well, you can take your kindness and tolerance and stuff it.

As for the canard that any kindness and tolerance is a result of your bizarre religion, think again. These ideas, and equal rights, come from the Enlightenment--an explicit move towards Reason and away from the irrationality of "prophesy."

I'd say "get a grip" if I thought you had any connection to reality.

Mad as hatters.

Questions for Obama...
If elected president will you demand the US Government pay REPARATIONS for slavery?

And if yes!

Who should be eligible for those reparations?

And how will that be proven?

Also, will you, your wife, or your children qualify for reparations?

How about Jeremiah Wright?

Will the money for reparations be taken exclusively from white tax payers?

In other words will there be a tax on "whitey" to pay the reparations?

Or will just rich white people pay for reparations?

mellors persecution complex
They made you stay in a closet and you were respectful. You did your mischief in secret. Now because we're Christians taught to love even the sinner, and reject hatred, you call us mad.

You thought you were punished if you came out out the closet because of the "Enlightenment" --? I think YOU'RE mad as a hatter. And; you may not want to admit it. But you ARE tolerated. By Christians more than most people.

RE: Swampfox
I for one disagree with your conclusion. I know of several people who's lives have been devastated by the homosexual lifestyle. The loving thing to do is not to be silent just because it is more accepted these days. The loving thing to do is to share the truth - gently and respectfully, but share the truth.

Lies from dreadnut
"They made you stay in a closet and you were respectful."

No respect from me. Just fear. Lie #1.

"You did your mischief in secret."

Not mischief. It's sex. Lie #2.

"Now because we're Christians taught to love even the sinner, and reject hatred, you call us mad."

Nope. Because you believe in a sky pixie and "prophecy", I call you mad. Lie #3.

"You thought you were punished if you came out out the closet because of the "Enlightenment" --?"

This is not a parsable sentence. So we'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

"I think YOU'RE mad as a hatter."

Now I'm sure that's true, though on what basis you could think such a thing is beyond me.

"And; you may not want to admit it. But you ARE tolerated."

Just like you tolerated blacks during slavery? Get over yourself, dreadnut. We don't want your "gift" of tolerance, nor even "acceptance" as so many of you seem to think. These are not your to give.

What we want is equal rights. We're citizens too.

I count your statement as lie #4.

"By Christians more than most people. "

Sure, dreadnut. I look forward to your explanation as to why the vast majority of those who would deny us civil rights on these threads are xians. Lie #5.

Not bad for a short post!


For McCain
Why does the Old Testament no longer matter?
What determines innocence?
Name some evil that your friends and/or allies have done(cannot use the words not and fail to)

MellorSJ2 brings us 5 lies
Thank you for your description of these lies. I know it is fun to #^&%!%* up a discussion thread. Call people liars, contradict them with silly arguments, yeah, yeah, ha, ha, ha!

But it is time for you to get better information. Using your numbers,

Lie #1. You should feel fear because of the consequences of your chosen behaviors. You don't have to wait until the afterlife for these consequences to kick in.

Lie #2. It is indeed mischief to get the body to perform your chosen behaviors.

Lie #3. No response needed. "Sky pixie" indeed.

Lie #4. Dreadnaught is correct. Tolerance for you and your chosen behaviors did not arise from the Enlightenment. Nor did reason. Christians started all that. The clumsy linkage to blacks and slavery is nowhere. You need to read some history.

Lie #5 is incoherent.

But you have a chance to learn, if you can read and listen. Reread Dreadnaught's posts in a fair light, it might get you started.


Some more
What is the difference between Honour and doing the right thing?
What does it mean to not be perfect?
If you think it takes to long to execute felons does reducing the time increase the risk of executing a innocent person?
Is there a conflict between freedom and Christian morality?
What is more important...to live your life as a example of Christ or to proclaim the word of Christ?

wizzyg
Good questions, thanks for returning to the actual thread. The candidates will need some serious prep to answer your questions. In particular,

- The honour question is probably too hard for a politician. Not to slam the candidates, but that one has a real stinger.

- The question about conflict between freedom and Christian morality is definitely too hard for a politician.


To Everygreen
There is no "homosexual" lifestyle. We just live and die like everyone else. Some of us are conservative, some of us are liberal. I would suggest that you go the conservative gay website http://www.gaypatriot.org and read what this blogger has to say.

Mellor
I pity you, foo!

Jesus Christ VERIFIED the historicity of the Flood, as well as of Creation, to say nothing of the one man, one woman becoming one flesh thing.

So, is He a liar?

Can you say so and not tremble even a little? If so, you're braver than even the demons who also know, yet tremble.


dreadnaught
Your need to attack my character indicates only your inability to defend your position and proves how shallow it is.

You never proved I was a liar, which undoubtedly makes you a slanderer.

It isn't all about winning the election, it is about doing the right thing, and having peace about it. Christians shouldn't be associated with abortion, homosexual, war monger, white genocide promoters: period. What is it to you if they promote people who share their own values?

If you don't think white genocide is happening then how do you explain that whites were about 95% of the population in the late 1960s and will soon be less than 50 percent? There is only one major explanation for this: immigration.

The immigration status quo you support, as a republican (if you are), as a supposed conservative(if you are), is the liberal immigration policy of the rabid anti-American Ted Kennedy. You are free to support his white genocide immigration policy and pretend it isn't genocide.

Coulter even refers to it the current situation as genocide. Does that give my perspective crediblity? If not, then you simply don't care that the genocide continues apace.

It is okay that you don't care about white genocide by the US government. But, as you, then, support the browing of America, I can rally for a return to the whiting of it.


Silly jg
"Lie #1. You should feel fear because of the consequences of your chosen behaviors. You don't have to wait until the afterlife for these consequences to kick in. "

Ever hear of safe sex?

How about fear of assault? Of losing one's job? Of housing discrimination?

"Lie #2. It is indeed mischief to get the body to perform your chosen behaviors. "

According to a dictionary "playful misbehavior or troublemaking, esp. in children : she'll make sure Danny doesn't get into mischief.
• playfulness that is intended to tease, mock, or create trouble : her eyes twinkled with irrepressible mischief.
• harm or trouble caused by someone or something : she was bent on making mischief.
• archaic a person responsible for harm or annoyance."

None of these apply. Try again.

"Lie #3. No response needed. "Sky pixie" indeed. "

Agreed. Anyone who holds irrational beliefs, and persists in them against all the the evidence is indeed mad.

"Lie #4. Dreadnaught is correct. Tolerance for you and your chosen behaviors did not arise from the Enlightenment. Nor did reason. Christians started all that. The clumsy linkage to blacks and slavery is nowhere. You need to read some history. "

Sure they did, jg. That's why these freedoms were available in, oh, say, 500CE. And why we had the Dark Ages.

"Lie #5 is incoherent. "

Dreadnut usually is. Especially when he gets all hot and bothered.


Mellors,
hate to break it to you but marriage has never been a right for homosexuals, so what rights have you been denied?

Foolish AliveinHim
"Jesus Christ VERIFIED the historicity of the Flood, as well as of Creation,"

So let's see. We have a bunch of uneducated desert nomads that write a book that becomes common knowledge, then some character comes along and says it's true without any evidence whatsoever, and I'm supposed to take this as proof of what? Said character is a prophet? A scientist? Got lucky?

"to say nothing of the one man, one woman becoming one flesh thing. "

An opinion. Of no more value than yours.

"So, is He a liar? "

Of course he's a liar! He claimed to be the son of a non-existent sky pixie! Granted, he said many good things, but that doesn't excuse this whopper.

"Can you say so and not tremble even a little? If so, you're braver than even the demons who also know, yet tremble. "

Of course I can say it! Do you live in fear of the Great Elf? You should!

chris: Not quite
"hate to break it to you but marriage has never been a right for homosexuals, so what rights have you been denied?"

What is being denied is equal rights. If you can marry, so can I.

It is Proposition 8 and other propositions and laws that attempt to limit marriage to one man and one woman that are taking away those equal rights.

To Swampfox
Thanks for the link. I'll refrain from responding to your latest post until I check it out (even though it is hard for me to do :).

Q # 1 for Obama
Senator:

90% of all drivers, including truck drivers, cab drivers, bus companies have already kept their tires inflated for 10 years or more and their engines tuned:

SO EXACTLY to the # of Barrels will we save if 3% of the 10% who do not care will inflate their tires and pay $200. for an engine tune up?

Q # 2 for OBAMA
Senator:

IF you steal the profits from the shareholders of the oil companies to buy more votes, redistribute the shareholders legally earned dividends to the parasites and use for reparations?

A. Will the oil companies charge more at the gas pumps, etc. to recapture your theft?

B. will you confiscate windfall profits from Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, etc. all of the blue chip companies too to BUY MORE VOTES; redistribute the shareholders dividends to the parasites and for reparations ?????/

Q # 3 for Obama
Senator:

THE mandatory community service you will dictate for every young person in the USA :

a. will you jail those who want to get a real job to help pay for their college education and will refuse to do the mandatory community service;

b. How many years will you sentence everyone to this punishment:

c. what if they have a dream or viable brilliant idea::::: like the GOOGLE kids who at age 18 were developing revolutionary technological advancements, will you dictate and order them to community service or jail them when they REFUSE to do your mandatory community service ??

Q # 4 for Obama
Senator:

YOUR plans to unilateral disarm the USA:

What if the USA has another Pearl Harbor like attack or 9/ 11 attack or WORSE????

exactly what assets will you have left to defend this nation and what is your plan to protect and defend this nation from TOTAL destruction?

Dreadnaught, fairy tales are NOT REAL
I stopped believing in Santa Claus at the age of five. Yet here we are, in 2008, and we still have grown men chanting and columnists who not only think there's a magic dude living in the sky, but think I have to take this nonsense seriously.

Grow up.

Q # 5 for OBAMA
Senator: for only 143 days ???

EQUAL SHARE FOR EVERYONE:::::

that means, the google kids, who rejected college or Bill Gates who gave us revolutionary tech changes: should have to share every dime with those who are brain fried druggies, fat and lazy, criminals, and no productive:

IS YOUR equal sharing mandate a dime for me and a dime for everyone else before or after taxes?

an answer for dark matter
The main reason anglo-americans have become a smaller demographic is very plain. Contraception, which the catholic Church teaches us is sinful, and th spread of abortion on demand.

i know many other races are practicing birth control; but not as pervasively as WASPs. The abortion rate is not as high, I suppose, among whites as with blacks. but it costs us new citizens; the unborn. Even our black children are citizes, after all. But meanwhile we have the Mexicans coming illegally. They reproduce. Furthermore in cultural matters they tend to be family-oriented, people of faith, and not as materialistic as our white citizenry. MONEY is what matters most to middle-class Americans today. That is not a worthwhile "culture." Why you'd lament a white culture disappearing that adds to the abortion, pornography, drug addiction and SELFISNESS of America is strange to me. Hispanic culture has nothing to be ashamed of. It might bring HOPE for our future; we NEED new blood.


Q # 6 for OBAMA
Senator: for only 143 days :::no achievements

As an IL state senator you stated:

that if a baby survived a late term abortion it
could NOT RECEIVE any LIFE saving treatment: NOTHING::: including food: which means it would have to be killed (eliminated) brutally murdered: because according to YOU if NOT left to die, etc. it would be considered a "PERSON" and that would put ROE VS WADE in jeopordy

Q # 6 part B:::for Obama, SRY
posted too quick:

Senator::::for only 143 days, achieved nothing:

Q. WHEN and under exactly what circumstances does a baby who is born alive during a late term abortion and or natural child brith determines that it is a "PERSON" and can receive medical care and food to survive ??

WOULD YOU be the "DECIDER" ???

ELECTION about "ENERGY" not CHURCH
doubtful that this election will rise or fall on "CHURCH" religious issues

This nation is in a crisis state: ENERGY will decide this election:

This election is about competent and incompetent leadership: experience vs selling snake oil:

it will not be dictated by "SOCIAL" issues or state issues:

Q. # 7 for Obama
senator for only 143 days and achieved nothing:

YOUR mandate for ration everything: food, gas, transportation, heat, lights, etc.

A. HOW will a mother of 4 transport her children to FREE day care on her way to work if she has to use a BIKE, as you proposed in Oregon.

b. WIll you ration the use of heat, lights, cooling for your HOLLYWOOD friends' mansions, yachts, jets, etc. ?


Q # 8 for OBAMA
senator for only 143 days and achieved nothing yet:

Healthcare: YOUR government controlled health care:

WILL it be "RATIONED" like Medicare and VA care are ?

Presently "medicaid" for the poor has 6 million back log cases::::: which have no one qualified to determine if and when and how much care they qualify for:
Many die years before a decision is made:
HOW will you handle 300 million citizen claims?

dread, you think you are conservative?
'MONEY is what matters most to middle-class Americans today. That is not a worthwhile "culture." '

Worthwhile to whom? You are an idiot.

America is a FREE country, and that means freedom for everyone, not just you.

Take your fairy tales and stick 'em where the sun don't shine. News flash: other people have their own agendas, and that is what made this country great. That their agenda might not conform to your own ridiculous "fairy in the sky" nonsense is none of your business.

Get the he|| off this site, and get the he|| out of the republican party.

Q # 9 for Obama
Senator: for only 143 days and achieved nothing;

Spanish:

HOW exactly would knowing spanish have improved achievements like heart transplants: google: Microsoft: all of our technology, anything Ben Franklin invented: any discoveries by Einstein etc. ??

Q # 10 for Obama
Senator: for 143 and achieved nothing to date:

Taxes;

SO exactly how does taxing every business out of business create more jobs?

So exactly how does doubling the capital gains taxes help Seniors retire in comfort?

So exactly how does doubling the capital gains taxes encourage or create more venture capital the::: HIGH RISK< HIGH REWARD investments in expanding and growing businesses:

Q # 11 for Obama
Senator: for only 143 days and achieved nothing

the POOR in the USA:

The POOR in the USA have pristine water to flush their toilets:::: FREE medical care at anytime: food shelves, church charities, heat, shelter, free transportation etc. free education up through college: FREE state social services of every type you can imagine: PLUS all of the Private Charitable contributions: FREE illegal drug shoot up rooms, free needles to shoot up: free legal representation:: Free counseling for the poor even to the drug addicts


IN AFRICA::or other 3rd world countries:: the REALLY POOR do not even have water much less "CLEAN" water to drink:

they do not even have blankets or a tree for shelter from the elements:

SO exactly what does "POOR" mean to you? define it in detail, outline the causes and the specific solutions other than redistribution of wealth to the parasites:

Question #1
Rick Warren: "Why do so many people calling themselves Christian actually take me seriously?

Mr. Obama: I was wondering the same thing about myself.

Q # 12 for Obama
Senator: for only 143 days and achieved nothing:

OPPRESSED BLACKS::::

Please explain how refugees from asia, and every other country in the WORLD, came to the USA without a dime in their pockets, without speaking a word of English, without a dime of welfare, without a free USA taxpayer college education, without free USA housing and food, rose up and out of poverty and became successful and do NOT HOLD perpetual pity parties and claim oppression?

Why is it that African Americans the PC designation for all blacks cannot achieve anything other than self inflicted misery and have such successful perpetual pity parties:

Q # 13 for Obama
Senator for only 143 and achieved nothing:

Employer mandatory benefits:

SO::: free child care, free paid medical leave, free same sex spousal benefits, including SS, Medical Care, Medical leave, etc.

HOW is it equity to give people who have kids who cannot afford to raise them or support them which the parentless workers do not receive, but have to pay for by not having enough profits left in the corporation to give them salary or bonus rewards or reduced medical benefits:

This was ..ok
but it seemed like alot of the 15 were so closely related they will get repeated answers and waste time by getting on to more issues of faith and morality.
question #3 about why should states have to decide instead of making a federal ban on baby killing?
Answer: It's called federalism and the odds of more states striking down abortion are greater singularly and keeping it that way.The Supremes are judges not our conscious and shouldn't have the right to make federal law out of moral issues. The Constitution is clear on this.

"Federalism" doesn't give states to
kill babies. Sorry Maggie. The right to life as Jackson says in his article if you read it, is guaranteed under the nation's national charter the Declaration of Independece (life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness) all inalienable rights guaranteed that can never be violated by any individual, state, or federal govt. The Constitution also guarantees the inalienable right to life under the 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments.

No state has the constitutional "right" to violate any inalienable rights guaranteed in the Declaration and Constitution period.

Jackson never even implied the "Supremes" should "make law." I have no idea what you are talking about.

Maggie you may need a refresher course in civics 101.

"Federalism" doesn't give any state the right to kill babies.

Questions by Rick Warren
I would like to hear Rick Warren answer these same questions! If Warren is mainstream Christian, then what is mainstream Christian? His interpretation of Scripture is correct? I don't think so. It is his subjective opinion of what Scripture says.

The best response to this thread
is the first, from Robert. He asked "Get a grip! They are running for President of the United States... not Pope."

frsteve, just now, makes the point in a different way: "If Warren is mainstream Christian, then what is mainstream Christian? His interpretation of Scripture is correct? I don't think so. It is his subjective opinion of what Scripture says."

Any answer (except the one each individual wants to hear) is the wrong one, and serves only to divide the country.

Get a grip, indeed!

Obama wants all his supporters to assume
the position!

On your knees Obamies of all races and religions.

It is time for your evening call to worhsip your lord and master - SWAMIE-OBAMIE!

So get off of TH and get in front of your autographed photo of Obamie and recite your sacred incantation:

Yes we can!
Yes we can!
Yes we can!

Now click your heels three times and say:

Obamie's the ONE becasue OPRAH said so...
Obamie's the ONE becasue OPRAH said so...
Obamie's the ONE becasue OPRAH said so...

and then your favorite little mantra:

Anyone who won't vote for Obama is a racist...
Anyone who won't vote for Obama is a racist...
Anyone who won't vote for Obama is a racist...

There feel better?

Obamie hears you because he is all hearing .... I means have you seen the ears on this guy?

They're all blind leaders of the blind
As a biblical systematic theologian, I fail to see how the universalist soteriology of both candidates qualifies them as Christians. In point of fact, it actually thoroughly disqualifies them. Therefore, to treat these pagans as though they are Christians greatly confuses the public and allows the candidates themselves to continue in the deception that beckons them into the smoking pit of Satan's hell--Jesus most certainly does not approve.

Based on what I have read of Rick Warren in this column, I would not give a plug nickel for the salvation of this abominable preacher either. He needs to have a very long conversation with someone who can explain the basics of the Christian faith concerning the terms of God's covenant of salvation, in other words, he needs to learn how to come into saving right spiritual relationship with God through Christ Jesus (Luke 9:23 ff).

Will that ever happen? Most unlikely. Will the public become even more confused than they are now? Without the slightest doubt. Will they and our country all go to hell in a hand basket? As sure as night follows day, my friends, as sure as night follows day.

Questioned by one who calls himself
a Pastor, though. So one would expect a pastor to query people from a pastoral viewpoint, yes?


Questions Warren should ask
All the questions you suggest are questions vital to a thorough understanding of each candidate and their philosphy on life. I have been intensely interested in hearing those questions answered but no interviewer has had the courage to ask them. I hope you are aware that Rick Warren will NEVER ask them because he doesn't want to offend anyone. Warren cares little about questions a Christian would ask and more about what a secularist would ask. To Warren not offending someone is more important than finding the truth.

Hi, Nerd in NH--


True; this is 2008.

I suppose little minds perceive it as a ponderous acievement, as more relevant the more recent;

Yet I can't be the first grown man chanting; there were great scientist chanting just a century back. The very ones who discovered the atom, and cures for deadly diseases. The little old nun who gave her love and charity to dying men in the Black Hole of Calcutta; all were "chanting."

Not to a dude anywhere. To the Son of God hanging on a cross. I suppose they never grew up, as you see growing. You grow stronger the more you fellate a dude in some public toilet stall, don't you? That's so advanced; it's 2008 ! You don't take "nonsense"-- All you want is dick.

That's why you hate being reminded about God.

mellor's civil rights were taken away


Mellor claims he has a right to marry another man. It's his civil right?

Not really. EQUAL rights means that just as we have a right to marry any member of the opposite sex without impediments, so has he/she. He just doesn't hanker for a girl.

Meaning he desires extraordinary rights. Not equal. If his unbearable need were to masiturbate he would demand the civil right to marry his fist.

MARRY A WOMAN, Kid. She won't hurt you! She'll make a man out of you.

Does it matter?
I am all for a president who believes in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit- I support any candidate who will agree on the conservative Christian issues- but the problem is that when we push for the government's involvement in dictating and defining our freedoms, we lose our freedoms. Marriage is only between one man and one woman. If we don't want the government recognizing the union between same sex couples, then we as Christians need to be out there making sure that we are living a CHristian example- the fact that same sex marriage, abortion, and the rest are popular is only a sign that Christians aren't out there making disciples- not the governments inability to establish morals. We live in a fallen, sinful world, and we are witnessing the effects of apostasy, the sins of our fathers, and a fallen moral state of mind. We can't wait for the government to do something about it- I don't want to see Obama in the White House, because not only does he stand for the "feel-good" message, he will govern our nation as an ecumenical state. Keep our Christian beliefs out of it- let's vote for someone who will hold to the values and freedoms that this nation has stood for all along, which will in turn give us Christians the freedom to spread the Gospel without having to worry about offending anyone.

who's really "blind" --?
What the hell is a biblical systematic theologian, Colin?

Is that a special brand of free-lance believer? Is theology some formula concocted by Oral or Billy or Mary Baker Eddy?

It's only in Christ's holy Church we come to theology, Colin. Let us know when you've been educated in a Catholic seminary; because until then you're in the same boat as Warren and Gregg. Jackson.

In #19, Nert from NH said:

Subject: -- "dread, you think you are conservative?

'MONEY is what matters most to middle-class Americans today. That is not a worthwhile "culture." '

Worthwhile to whom? You are an idiot."

REPLY:
I'm an idiot who doesn't care what you believe. You're a bigger idiot, since you can't tolerate others. I stand by what I wrote. You disagree? Nobody cares.

"America is a FREE country, and that means freedom for everyone, not just you."

REPLY: It's my country. You can't take it over. Freedom is fine; license isn't.

"Take your fairy tales and stick 'em where the sun don't shine. . . other people have their own agendas,"

REPLY: Go p i s s up a rope.


"and that is what made this country great. That their agenda might not conform to your own ridiculous "fairy in the sky" nonsense is none of your business." REPLY:

We have no "fairy," you gays are fairies who are ten times more ridiculous.

"Get the he|| off this site, and get the he|| out of the republican party."

REPLY: See if you can make me; PUTZ.

This thread
This thread turned into quite a mess.

I'll single out one of the disrupters, Mellorsj2. He used the ad hominem method of disputation in #34 and #36:

#34

Goes after aliveinhim and dreadnaught, then concludes that they (or we? just exactly who?) are
“Mad as hatters the lot of 'em.”

#36
“Well, you can take your kindness and tolerance and stuff it.”

”I'd say "get a grip" if I thought you had any connection to reality.

Mad as hatters.”


Here are some nice titles to mellorsj2's posts:

#40 “Lies from dreadnut”

#42 “Silly jg”

#50 “Foolish AliveinHim”


On the plus side, Mellorsj2 learned to use the word "indeed" (#75).

Thanks for your efforts, wizzyg, dreadnaught, aliveinhim, b2slim and others.


Thank you, jg of VA


We're used to Mellors. He's a lonely gay. His attitude is very predictable. Talking down to people of faith. He plays it spiteful. His nerves are fragile, so he spends hours posting and it's usually vile remarks.

GAYS on the Internet have it all their own way. Nobody reaches them except by becoming just as stubborn. In my heart I think (this is no brag) I've managed to teach some gays all the truths they would've remained oblivious to had I not devoted time & thought to social problems like homosexual rights.

They do have rights as American citizens. We shouldn't marginalize them for their sins or encourage anyone to hate them. Yet they need reproofs, and they need our prayers too. God definitely loves them.

Jesus didn't shun the lepers of His day. Everybody else did, because it seemed they were accursed. Jesus called them to Himself and healed them. Today homosexuals represent those poor souls in the world. Let's not overlook that.

Got it, dreadnaught
That fills some gaps, thanks.

I didn't know who the guy is, I just think a civil discussion of Jackson's interesting column is better than personal attacks that muck up the thread. I have seen this pattern too many times.

The small number (about 20) of gays and lesbians I have known personally have had problems in the head and the heart and, of course, the soul.

We are under orders to reach out to them as you suggest. I read it the same way.


Poor little jg and dreadnut
I go away for a minute, and what happens? The whining starts up again!

Ad hominem? Can you read? This whole site is ad hominem towards gays. "Disgusting," "perverted," "deviants," etc., and those are just the nice ones. One charming xian on another thread hoped I'd die if AIDS.

But if you want to talk about this "interesting" column, let's go ahead, shall we? It's based on multiple false premises, which I'll state in the positive:
* As Robert said, way back, they're running for president, not pope
* Religion is a private matter
* Jackson or Warren have the "right" answers
* And, of course, that your religion has special rights.

Granted, if this interview were held at the Convention of the Great Elf, I'd expect to see questions if interest to Believers, but that isn't the point of these questions. Instead, it's rev up up the base with more gay bashing.



reply to mellork


He stayed away a minute. (He could've fooled me.)

Go back some and you'll see, Mellisande, I was not in agreement with the author of this article. I didn't like the idea of asking our candidates any 15 leading questions. You come back here like Tiny Tim on the Late Show; tiptoeing through the tulips; to squeal about the bad behavior of others. Yet you feel super about blaspheming God in the company of believers? I have good advice for you:

Get thee to a whorehouse like Arianna Hoofington's blogsite. Pick a fight with those Bozoes. You became tiresome here long ago.

At it again, dreadnut?
"Yet you feel super about blaspheming God in the company of believers?"

Yes. In my best Big Gay Al voice: I feel suuuper about blaspheming your sky pixie.

You folk have had special rights too long. There's no reason you should get a free pass for unsupportable beliefs.

But I'll tell you what: Stop using your sky pixie as a argument for oppressing gays, and I'll leave the sky pixie alone.

MellorSJ2
Pathetic.

mellors feels bullet-proof


He can blaspheme all he wants; it's his party here.

Keep it up. I'm never going to think of God as any imaginary construct. He satisfies me.

YOU are the one outside in the darkness. As to the "oppressed" feeling we give you, it's just the price of your depravity. Conscience nagging at you?

No one is actively depriving you or oppressing you. You just have the same unbearable persecution complex common to all worm-pixies hovering over their maggot ditch.

It becomes apparent to you as time passes; that soon you'll be only a rotten corpse. Nothing else; since you sold your soul. Paranoia has you by the throat.


Oh! They're so sweet these xians!
"Keep it up. I'm never going to think of God as any imaginary construct. He satisfies me."

You're welcome to believe any fairy tale you want. And if it satisfies you, who am I to argue?

"YOU are the one outside in the darkness."

Nope. The sun is up, and I'm indoors.

"As to the "oppressed" feeling we give you, it's just the price of your depravity."

Let me see if I have this straight: Because I'm "depraved" it's OK for you to oppress me?

"Conscience nagging at you?"

What ever for? My conscience is clear.

"No one is actively depriving you or oppressing you."

Sure they're not! Now: Explain why my spouse cannot inherit my social security benefits, or my estate without punitive taxes, even as yours can. That may not qualify as "oppression" (thankfully we're past that, no thanks to you), but it sure ain't equal.

"You just have the same unbearable persecution complex common to all worm-pixies hovering over their maggot ditch."

If you must throw around insults, at least come up with something original.

"It becomes apparent to you as time passes; that soon you'll be only a rotten corpse."

True. All too soon. And so will you.

"Nothing else; since you sold your soul."

I haven't sold anything. It's you who have made the sale: Grovel your whole life for a promise that cannot be fulfilled.

"Paranoia has you by the throat."

LOL! About what, pray?

Hey! ModMark!
Long time, no see.

Did you ever finish up the kitchen? No doubt you prayed to the Great Elf for his assistance.

Don't you just love these people? I call one of 'em "silly" and he has fits. Never mind the vitriol they spout towards gay people!

But my two favorites are: (a) You already have equal rights because you can marry any woman you want, just like me. Try selling that to inter-racial couples :)

And (b) the whole passive-aggressive thing. Try this fantastic example: "Yet they need reproofs, and they need our prayers too. God definitely loves them."

Say g'day to the wife! Hope she likes the kitchen.

whine, whine! squeal, squeal!

"Sure they're not! Now: Explain why my spouse cannot inherit my social security benefits, or my estate without punitive taxes, even as yours can."

SIMPLE: You have no spouse. You live or wish you could live with a male concubine.

But all those advantages can still be had legally. Why should you two distort the truth to claim Social Security benefits?

Foollatio isn't the marital act. You can't consummate marriage with another man. FACE THE FACTS !





Makes me think of "Deliverance"
"SIMPLE: You have no spouse."

So let me see if I understand the argument here: Gays can't be married legally because you don't think gays can be married?

Nice work there. Squeal squeal!

the gay
" . . . the argument here: Gays can't be married legally because you don't think gays can be married?"

REPLY:
They can only P R E T E N D to be married. The license they pay for is legal enough,

Otherwise you're not spouses nor even able to be.

You don't have a vagina in your license. Ergo, no married spouse. Marry a woman, Boys. A woman would make a man out of yuz.

of all people to talk


you-- You --YOU ?


You talk about cheek?

Fabius is not rabid. He's not an xian. And he's been correct here.

YOU are so cheeky soon you'll be like that sickening dead dog on the beach that Geraldo spent half an hour showing a few nights ago. It even seemed like a dead homosexual, come to think about it. Imagine? Bloated carcass died of STD.


something for ModMark to chew on


I saw your cheeky #14 nonsense:

dreadnaught, blasphemy

is the most political correct cr*p around. (You meant crap.)

You're quite mistaken. Blasphemy never raises any eyebrow in this society. It's FAR from PC.

Blasphemy is a mortal sin for which a blasphemer is damned to everlasting pain in hell;

If he never repents. Taking the name of Jesus is blasphemy. You are so cheeky you don't care, but the day'll come when you care plenty. I hate to have to tell you. It's only because you seemed to be ignorant of your sin.

Now you won't be allowed to plead invincible ignorance.

BTW-- Christians are NOT supposed (under penalty of sin) to speak evil of Allah. The Islamic faith, though beieving in the deceit of a false prophet, is actually correct about Allah Himself. He is the same deity worshipped by the Israelites. The God of Abraham and Isaac.

Only His would-be prophet is false.

Jesus was the last and greatest prophet. He's the Son of God. (Just thought you ought to know, Mr. Blowhard.)

bravo! fabius cunctator


I was forgetting to congratulate you on your excellent response (#7) to LoveisEqual;

You've nailed it so well. First, they sell the false premise; then go on to build more ridiculous arguments, even contradicting all human reasoning in the stupid results of their selfish opinions.

GREAT exposition, Fabius! Keep up the fine work.

thanks for telling me


Fabius,

I'm very flattered. And yes; I feel that you're a friend.

God be with you.

Great Questions!

Those are great questions. I wouldn't mind hearing Warren's answers of them as well as McCain's and Obama's.

Obama said that the Sermon on the Mount gives approval for gay marriage. I've looked and looked and it's not there. And he also said that John 14:6 can be interpreted in many ways. How, I have no idea!

Too bad they can't have an actual Bible believing preacher do this instead of Warren.

Knowledge of Truth,Understanding,&Wisdom
The Word of God is spiritually discerned.
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.(1 Cor 2:14)

If you read the Bible and it does not make sense to you; sit down and talk to someone so they can help you. You have to be aware of the spiritual warfare. We are walking spirits in bodies. There are forces at work that allow us to worship good or evil. We all have a destiny and that is either Heaven or Hell. God is good and righteous and faithful to His children. The biggest lie that our nation believes is that Satan does not exist. Believing in Good and not Believing there is Bad is clouded reality. There is always absolute and relative. night and day. Good or evil.denying the devil's existence gives him unacceptable leverage in his efforts. He is spirit and he USES people as hosts.

Look what he has done over the course of 30 years! We are not on this earth to be happy. We are here to carry out a purpose.



I challenge everyone who is making reference to Faith, Bible, Jesus, and God to really study it out. Sure we all know little snapshots and verses from the Bible but do you know what it really means? If so alot of these postings would not be on here. Alot of it is foolish talk to those who don't have a relationship with Jesus. How can you talk about God when you don't know him? To know him and to love him is to know and obey his commands. John 14:15-17. Sure we know of HIM but can you honestly say you have a relationship with God? IF you can't say it with confidence then seek his Kingdom and the wool will be removed from your eyes to see the thin veil between the physical realm (us as humans in the human form) and the spiritual realm (Holy Spirt, Angels, Demons, Satan,etc.) Its real but you have the power of choice.
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