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Thursday, April 30, 2009
George Will :: Townhall.com Columnist
Reconciliation's Slippery Path
by George Will
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Reconciliation: The action of bringing to agreement, concord, or harmony. -- Oxford English Dictionary WASHINGTON -- But under Senate rules, "reconciliation" can be a means for coping with disharmony by deepening it. The tactic truncates Senate debate and curtails minority rights. The threat to use it to speed enactment of health care reform has coincided with talk about possible prosecutions relating to the previous administration's interrogation policies. Harmony is becoming more elusive.

Under "reconciliation," debate on a bill can be limited to 20 hours, enabling passage by a simple majority (51 senators, or 50 with the vice president breaking a tie) rather than requiring 60 votes to terminate debate and vote on final passage. The president and Senate Democrats have decided to use reconciliation by Oct. 15, unless Republicans negotiate compliantly regarding health care. But the threat of reconciliation mocks negotiations.

The reconciliation process was created in 1974 to facilitate adjustments of existing spending programs. Former Sen. John Sununu, a New Hampshire Republican, writing in The Wall Street Journal, says using reconciliation to ram through health care reform would "circumvent the normal and customary workings of American democracy." But those workings have changed markedly.

The most important alteration of the legislative process in recent decades has been the increasingly promiscuous use of filibusters to impose a de facto supermajority requirement for important legislation. And "important" has become a very elastic term.

It should be difficult for government to act precipitously. "Great innovations," said Jefferson, "should not be forced on slender majorities." Revamping health care -- 17 percent of the economy -- qualifies as a great innovation. This is especially so because the administration and its allies, without being candid about what is afoot, are trying to put the nation on a glide path to a "single-payer" -- entirely government-run -- system. They would do this by creating a government health insurance plan to compete with private insurers. It would be able to -- indeed, would be intended to -- push private insurers out of business.

But when Republicans ran the Senate, they, too, occasionally made dubious use of reconciliation. And Republicans' merely situational commitment to legislative due process was displayed in 2003 when they held open a House vote for three hours until they could pressure enough reluctant Republicans to pass the prescription drug entitlement.

As Washington becomes increasingly opaque to normal Americans, its quarrels come to seem increasingly trivial, even when they are momentous. The reconciliation tactic is unknown to most Americans and so, too, is the institution at the center of the controversy about torture -- the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel. From it came the so-called "torture memos" arguing the legality of certain "enhanced interrogation" techniques.

The OLC provides opinions about what is and is not lawful government behavior. By not quickly quashing talk about prosecutions of the authors of the memos -- or, by inference, higher officials who acted on the basis of those memos -- the president has compromised the OLC's usefulness: If its judgments can be criminalized by the next administration, OLC can no longer be considered a bulwark of the rule of law.

On the other hand, four things are clear. First, torture is illegal. Second, if an enemy used some of the "enhanced interrogation" techniques against any American, most Americans would call that torture. Third, that does not mean that the memos defending the legality of those techniques were indefensible, let alone criminal, because: Fourth, the president might be mistaken in saying that there is no difficult choice because coercive interrogation techniques are ineffective.

A congressional panel, or one akin to the 9/11 commission, should discover what former CIA Director George Tenet meant when he said: "I know that this program has saved lives. I know we've disrupted plots." And what former National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell meant when he said: "We have people walking around in this country that are alive today because this process happened."

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who was frequently briefed as a member of the Intelligence Committee, could usefully answer the question: What did you know and when did you know it? She regularly conquered reticence about her disapproval of the Bush administration. Why not about the interrogation methods?

Furthermore, four of the president's 15 Cabinet members are former members of Congress, as are the president, vice president and White House chief of staff. So seven of the administration's 18 most senior figures might usefully answer those questions, and this one: What did you do about what you knew?

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About The Author
George F. Will is a 1976 Pulitzer Prize winner whose columns are syndicated in more than 400 magazines and newspapers worldwide.
 
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"Second,
if an enemy used some of the 'enhanced interrogation' techniques against any American, most Americans would call that torture."

Probably the biggest 'IF' ever contemplated. Our enemies become our enemies because they are outside civilized norms. Who, exactly... now, or in the past, or anywhere in the future... might fit into this category? Canada?

As Ann Coulter points out, Americans willingly endure worse treatment at Six Flags in the name of fun & thrills.

Really a reach, Mr Will!

Irrelevant Minority Running to "Rebrand"

Coming soon to a battleground state near you: a new effort to revive the image of the Republican Party and to counter President Obama's characterization of Republicans as "the party of 'no.'"

CNN has learned that the new initiative, called the National Council for a New America, will be announced Thursday.

It will involve an outreach by an interesting mix of GOP officials, ranging from 2008 Republican presidential nominee John McCain to Jeb Bush, the former Florida governor and the younger brother of the man many Republicans blame for the party's battered brand: former President George W. Bush.

In addition to Sen. McCain and Gov. Bush, GOP sources familiar with the plans tell CNN others involved in the new group's "National Panel Of Experts" will include:

*Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, a former national GOP chairman
*Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal
*Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney

It will report to GOP congressional leaders, and among those signing the announcement that will be made public Thursday are:

*House GOP Leader John Boehner
*House GOP Whip Eric Cantor
*House GOP Conference Chairman Mike Pence
*Senate GOP Leader Mitch McConnell
*The No. 2 Senate Republican, Jon Kyl
*And the Senate GOP Conference Chairman, Lamar Alexander

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/29/gop-set-to- launch-rebranding-effort/

Dangerous Hate Crime Legislation passed.
Dangerous Hate Crime Legislation passed.
Hate Crimes legislation has just passed in the House of Reps.

Hate Crimes legislation will be twisted and misinterpreted to mean anything.

The purpose of hate crimes legislation is to take away our freedoms. INcluding freedom of religion and freedom of speech.

Hate Crimes legislation is intended to silence the pulpits around the country.

Do not let the Senate pass this legislation.

OBAMA has promised to sign it.


Dictatorship
President Obama will soon have dictatorship powers. He will try, within his time as president, to remove the 2 term limit on the presidency. Just like Victor Chavez, his new found friend. Just like Putin, who created a more powerful position for himself within his government. Like Castro who he is emulating with his political agenda. The power of the presidency will increase way beyond what was intended by the Constitution. Now you know.

Healthcare reform(Cont)4
Real Healthcare Reform: Changing the Incentives and the Rules of the Game; Creating an Electronic Health Record for Every Citizen Who Wants One.

If you have the financial resources of Bill Gates or Warren Buffett you needn’t pay money to a health plan each month, since if you get sick or injured – even very seriously - you have more than enough money to pay all your medical bills yourself.
But those of us with significantly less financial resources must find some other means of dealing with the thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars or more of medical expenses that we might incur should a serious illness or injury be our fate.
Enter the concept of “health insurance”.
Large numbers of individuals and/or their employers pay some money each month into one or another big pot called a “health plan”. Those individuals who remain essentially very healthy for many years and then suddenly die or perhaps leave a particular health plan for some other reason – if they have put more money into the pot than was taken out to pay all their medical expenses - wind up helping to pay the medical bills of those members of the health plan who become seriously ill or injured and incur a lot of medical expenses.
Many members of health plans don’t seem to fully understand - or perhaps choose to forget - that if they become seriously ill or injured, for the most part their medical bills will be paid by the members of their health plan who have remained healthy. Some Americans believe that healthcare should become a “right” of every American citizen. If a nationalized single payer health plan were enacted, every American citizen - who for whatever reason became ill or injured and incurred significant medical expenses - would for the most part have his or her medical bills paid by all U.S. taxpayers.

If Congress can pass a bill...
...against a human emotion like "hate",why can't they pass a bill in favor of a human emotion like "love"? Whatever happend to legislating bills for or against "actions",regardless of what motivated the individual?

Just asking.

National Council for a New America
From the names you posted why don't they just call themselves Democrat Light? I even have a slogan for them:

Same great liberal fiscal policies now with less abortion!

Interesting that every name on the list is a pro-illegal alien, open borders, globalist.

Just what the country needs.

Healthcare Reform (Cont)2
For any health plan to work which has a large number of people pooling their money to essentially pay the medical bills of whichever members of the plan become seriously ill or injured, rules must be established as to when and how much money may be taken out of the pot e.g. “legitimate” doctor bills and hospital bills. Equally important is keeping track of the amount of money that is being put into the pot each month in premiums paid by health plan members or their employers. If too much is being paid out in expenses as compared with the amount being received in premiums, the pot will soon become empty and the health plan will go broke.
As previously mentioned, the monthly premiums paid by individuals or their employers go into a health plan’s big pot from which “covered” healthcare expenses are paid. But also from this pot are paid all the health plan’s administrative expenses including what may be big salaries and golden parachutes for CEO’s and other “healthcare executives” – individuals who may be paid to find technicalities of one sort or another in the health plan’s agreements so the health plan can deny or reduce payments, raise premiums, cancel insurance, or in one way or another minimize or exclude “bad risks” from the health plan. All such questionable business practices are done to enable the health plan to make a profit and remain in business.
Currently we are experiencing continual increases in healthcare costs that are unsustainable and which, if unchecked, will soon seriously threaten the future of the entire American economy. Healthcare costs must be controlled, but how? If a healthcare system made up of health plans is going to have a chance of meeting the needs of its health plan members and simultaneously be able to keep costs under control, something very critically important must first occur.

Healthcare reform(Cont)3
It turns out that a lot of illnesses and many injuries are actually preventable. Although health promotion and disease and injury prevention receive appropriately fashionable and socially acceptable and lip service, the fact is that most of the participants in what should be more appropriately called our “sickness and injury care system” actually have no significant financial incentive to spend time and energy in genuinely promoting health and helping to prevent disease and injury.
Much to the contrary. Other than the actual members of a health plan – patients and potential patients - and their employers and perhaps the employees of some health plans, most participants in our sickness and injury care system - because of the way they are paid - have an enormous (if unspoken) incentive to allow massive amounts of disease and injury – much of which is preventable - to continue to occur in America. For them, strictly from a financial point of view, the more disease and injury that occurs, the better. And if the disease or injury is serious and requires many expensive tests, multiple surgical procedures, and other complicated prolonged treatment, so much the better; just as long as those unfortunate individuals who happen to be diseased or injured are “covered” by “good insurance”, i.e. health plans that are reliable bill payers.

Healthcare reform(Cont)4
This is not to say that there are not some excellent and very dedicated and hardworking doctors and other health professionals - who are generally paid to care for illness and injury on a fee for service basis – who nevertheless attempt to essentially work themselves out of a job by very strongly encouraging health promotion and disease and injury prevention with their patients. Also, it should be recognized that some existing health plans – e.g. Kaiser and Group Health - combine insurance, doctors, and hospitals into a single entity in such a way that provides everyone - including all the health plan’s doctors - a real incentive to spend time and effort with patients on health promotion and disease and injury prevention as well as on early diagnosis and treatment. But unfortunately these two examples do not apply to the majority of the sickness and injury care system throughout America.
For the most part - because of the way they are compensated - most doctors and other professional providers, most acute care hospitals and long term care facilities, essentially all pharmaceutical manufactures and pharmacists, medical and surgical equipment manufacturers and personal injury and malpractice attorneys - among others - depend mightily on the massive amounts of disease and injury that occur in America; and these participants in our sickness and injury care system would be significantly negatively impacted if a lot of the preventable illnesses and injuries were actually prevented. This must be changed.
Unless the incentives and rules are changed to give as many participants as possible a real stake in prevention, early diagnosis and treatment, and maximizing health and minimizing disease and injury, healthcare costs in America will never be brought under control. Making appropriate and very significant changes in the incentives and the rules of the game is the real task and challenge of “healthcare reform”.

Healthcare reform(Cont)5
For example, should individuals receive a financial incentive to be healthy? It is well recognized that engaging in regular exercise, abstaining from tobacco, and eating moderately so as to maintain a reasonably normal body weight are all significant factors in helping to promote an individual’s health and wellness. These healthy behaviors can all be confirmed by simple tests in a doctor’s office. Why shouldn’t those individuals who practice these health promoting behaviors pay significantly less to their health plan than those who don’t?
To really reform healthcare we must figure out ways – through changes in incentives and the rules of the game - to actually prevent a lot of what is preventable, to maximize early diagnosis and treatment, and minimize disease and injury with all their associated costs. Most importantly we must find ways for essentially every participant to be part of our “healthcare system” and not just a part of our “sickness and injury care system”.
Significant changes in the rules of the game for our legal system – tort reform – is also critically important so that the gaming of the system now being done by personal injury and malpractice attorneys and their clients can be ended and so that the exorbitant costs to physicians and other professionals for malpractice insurance can be dramatically reduced.
Truly transforming our “sickness and injury care system” into a “healthcare system” by making significant changes in the incentives and the rules of the game would seem to be a formidable task and one that has probably never really been done before on a large scale anywhere in the world. But it is a worthy task and a critically important one for the future of America and its people.

What's the Problem?
Sometimes I just don't understand George Will. He and I are around the same age, lived through the same things. We are certainly familiar with how these things are done. We saw Stalin, followed by Bulganin, then Malenkov, Krushchev, Chernenkov, Brezhnev, etc. So, each change brought a kind of end to certain other guys, all handled within the operation of that type government. The only surprising thing about types like this is, looking at photos of them, one wonders how any of them ever got a wife.

As far as "Health Care" among Americans is concerned, "Health Care" is the disease -- incurable, it seems.

Healthcare reform(Cont)6
One important step in this process is developing the capability of creating an electronic health record for every American citizen who wants one. We need a standardized framework that will allow every American citizen to have an individual electronic health record – a computerized medical record - that can be accessed by all the doctors who care for a particular individual, regardless of wherever on the planet the doctors or the patients happen to be. It would be like having your own personal online banking account that only you have the password to, but which you can share with the doctors who are caring for you, wherever you or they may be.
I strongly applaud those who are using their energy and expertise to upgrade our deplorable current paper medical records system and bring medical records in America into the 21st century. Developing a standardized framework for an electronic health record - for every citizen who wants one – created by your doctor with your assistance, which has proper security and safeguards is something that our national government can and should do as a part of healthcare reform.
If done well, electronic health records will be transformational in helping doctors efficiently and effectively care for patients – whenever and wherever they may be - and will save an enormous amount of time, effort, and money which is currently wasted on needless and frequently inaccurate duplication. Also, electronic health records will make it easier to evaluate each patient with regard to appropriate health promotion and disease and injury prevention. Like the telephone and the computer, someday we will all wonder how we ever got along without them.
But we need action, not just words. Now is the time for Americans and their leaders and doctors to step up to the plate and begin the process of transforming our “sickness and injury care system” into an “American Healthcare System” that is worthy of our great country.

Will speaking for me
George have another dinner with Bamster. I disagree that most American's think that what we have seen in most of the memos is torture.

Indeed, what did they know
Mr. Will's discussion of the “torture” issue is one of the too rare instances where a conservative voice does not resort to name calling and presents a fair case for his view.
As regards the “quashing talk about prosecutions” I respectfully disagree. It was a very unfortunate error of the president to have given the impression that he intended to squash the prosecution. I think he was right, though, in exempting the “lower-downs” as long as they adhered to the legal “advice” given by the OLC. That is different from just obeying orders.
However, there has been an investigation of the memos in the DoJ’s Office of Professional Responsibility on the memos. Let us see what the investigation says, let the Attorney General as the highest law enforcement officer decide whether the results of the investigation warrant prosecution. While I am very well aware that prosecution in itself can be a financial punishment, still, that is the constitutional process to handle things.
A 9-11 commission might be the political venue to shed light into the matter but it should not interfere with prosecution. The least desirable instrument would be a congressional investigation. Depending on circumstances it could turn into partisan bickering or a bi-partisan cover-up.
Yet, as regards his last question, from right and left, there should indeed be a clamour: What did you do about what you knew?

My Hopes
I hope that those who will make up some very distant future GOP majority in congress observe how government power can be properly used. The GOP we threw out of office in Nov. did nothing because it was a bunch of inept cowards. America loves criminals, perverts, thieves, and other lowlifes and will give such scum dominion over them. But they hate cowards. The GOP's loss had nothing, not one gawd dam mother effing thing to do with morality or torture. It was because they were cowards.

I hope that another major American blue state urban crotch of the country shythole like L.A. is devasted by the islamists and that we find out that the plot could have been thwarted if only the FBI of NSA hadn't feared punishment for offending Islam.

I hope Arlen Spector has a quick relapse of his life threatening illness and dies painful death in some hospital bed right after seeing that he was defeated in the next electin by a historic margin and that his wife was caught pleasuring the NBA.

Happy Mother's day, everyone. Have a nice day.

George
"...The OLC provides opinions about what is and is not lawful government behavior. By not quickly quashing talk about prosecutions of the authors of the memos -- or, by inference, higher officials who acted on the basis of those memos -- the president has compromised the OLC's usefulness: If its judgments can be criminalized by the next administration, OLC can no longer be considered a bulwark of the rule of law..."

George the failed Bush destroyed the OLC as a "bulwark of the rule of law". If the OLC's recommendations violated or condoned illegal acts they must be punished. We used torture condoned admittedly by the failed Bush. The rule of law is paramount and must prevail. You and the entire conservative movement will regret being apologists for law breaking

REBUILDINGI INFRASTRUCTURE
The governments noble promise to rebuild our Countrys 'infrastructure' making millions of new jobs for American workers was the 'Hope' the majority of voters 'believed' in and voted for.
But the 'infrastructure' the new liberal left government REALLY meant to replace and rebuild was government itslf. Their very first project was building a BYPASS, one they have used very effectively to bypass our Constitution. They have spent and printed trillions and intend to continue doing so. Taxpayers and generations to come face an unrepayable debt no matter how high taxation goes.
The liberal lefts agenda of rebuilding and replacing the foundational 'infrastructure' of government has built new bridges and roads with which to 'buy' and 'control' banks, companies, health care and energy. And they will ultimately totally 'control' and run 70% of our Nations Economy.
The first 100 days of this administration illustrates the broken 'promises' of bipartisanship (excluding republican input), ethics (tax cheats), no lobbyists (multiple), 5 day review of all bills (not once), no ear marks (over 9,000 of them), fiscal responsibility (spending trillions, supposedly 'cutting' 100 million, but not actually 'cut' but redistributed to other programs), transparency (limited release of classified documents and still no release of the presidents birth, school or passport records) and patriotism (bashing America overseas and profiling GI veterans and any American with opposing opinions).
Our governments new 'infrastructure' replaces our Constitution, Bill of Rights, Independence and our Freedom. It is being rebuilt to consolidate ALL POWER to government and NO POWER to the People.


Torture anyone

Waterboarding brought this whole mess to a head that is called torture.Water boarding has a 100% survival rate and abortion has a 0% survival rate.Whose head is screwed up on this one.Never let facts and common sence get in the way of BDS.Vietnam Vet.

Promiscuous Use Of The Word: Torture
Mr. Will's argument is flawed on two levels. While I think using reconciliation might've been a bad idea for forcing the prescription drug benefit down the legislature's throat, I think it would've been better applied for getting Mr. Bush's judges through. Had the Republicans done that, we might not be getting some of the truly frivolous rulings we're hearing now.
When a conservative commentator acquiesces to the liberals' defining down of torture he/she concedes a bone of contention to the left that they don't deserve. As "promiscuous" as John McCain was in condemning torture by our side, he should've known better. In North Vietnam he had experienced what torture was. He was left disfigured by it. I challenge Mr. Will or Senator McCain to find an imprisoned terror suspect that will leave Guantanamo Bay in the same condition that John McCain left North Vietnam.
With the exception of waterboarding, most of what the CIA did has been sone routinely by many police departments. You convince the suspect that you "will" do harm to him if he doesn't give you the information you need. Waterboarding involves putting water down a prisoner's nose and convinving him you're "going to" drown him. You can argue that you're causing the prisoner some discomfort, but torture is clearly too strong a word, especially given what has been done by the North Vietnamese, and Islamic radicals. There was also the case of putting a caterpillar in a suspect's cell and convincing the suspect that it was a "stinging insect." For liberals who define that as torture, please, don't make me laugh. http://theclosetconservative.com

We deserve everything we get
Someone once said that The People fully deserve whatever govt they happen to have. It's true for the US too.

The Dems now have a fillibuster proof majority and with/without Reconciliation are going to jam every Left wing program through as fast as they can...before the masses fully realize what they're up to. The people voted them in...and the people will suffer the results.

And like a junkie is addicted to heroin, once the Underclass and Lower Middle class get a taste of the new entitlements, we'll never be rid of them.

I predict significantly lower standards of living for the Middle and Lower Middle classes by 2025 because of permanantly lowered GDP growth. We're eating our seed corn by spending wealth TODAY on social welfare programs...instead of leaving the capital in the private sector for investment and growth.

Hal
Justice Robert Jackson wrote in his decent in the Terminiello v City of Chicago last line is the "it will Constitutional Bill of Rights into a suicide pact." When you are faced with the unthinkable possibility of another strike on America and you are sworn to protect this country what will you do. Presidents in the time of war have put the Constitution in the drawer to protect the survival of this nation. It is time for you liberals to "suit up" (Clarence Thomas quoted a story about Michael Jordon when asked what he thought of a commentator saying he wasn't very good). You are now in charge. If we are hit again I can't wait for Pres. Obama's Eulogy "I am sorry for your lose, but at least France has a good opinion of us because we didn't torture with waterboarding an Al-Qeada leader." We have the luxury of 100/100 hindsight 8 years after 9/11. Put yourself in Bush's shoes. What would you have done?

WE WILL BREAK THEM
This has gone too far.

The People of America, the ones who work, have awakened and we will get rid of every non-representing public official out there.

TEA PARTY POLITICS HAS ARRIVED.

THAT MEANS THE PEOPLE HAVE RISEN...JUST WAIT AND SEE.

ROWDY BOOTS

No Concern About Torture
Obama cares not one whit about torture because he is an amoral animal. He cares only about trashing the nation, so that is what he will do; any distraction he can provide by destroying the Bush administration will keep the Liberals happy and will divert attention from his nefarious behaviors. Anyone who believes that any Liberal gives a hoot about human life and welfare is crazy; they care only about control and power.

Dem.,Congress already has 2 much Power!
If reconciliation is allowed, then we are that much closer to being under the control of a fascist Government! Don't the loose cannon liberals have enough power? If you know history, you should realize that absolute power corrupts and individual freedon is censored for the good of the masses. European type Socialism wins over American Democracy! Leave well enough alone. One wrong President Bush, can't do our great, strong, Country 'in' but now one wrong Obama Pres., after the other perhaps can. Scary! Ex Democrat

Re: Culture of Death
"Nationalized Health Care", the "Culture of Death's answer to baby boomers and a bankrupt Social Security System.

The World Hates Weakness!
The Democrat Party has OWNED congress for most of my lifetime. Occasionally,after a disastrous term such as Carters,a Republican was elected and subquently, we would have a GOP congress for a few years.

Republicans NEVER knew how to use their power when they supposedly had it,excluding the a couple of years in the nineties when Newt was speaker. Numbers mean nothing when you are afraid to use them.

Democrats know how to play the game. They intimidate and bully the opponents and Republicans are weak and just want to be loved and appreciated by the left. Instead,they are laughed at,humiliated,pilloried and held in contempt.

The mainstream media and the entertainment industry are lapdogs for the Dems and are their advertising agency.

oops,typo
subsequently!!

Rowly
exactly why the Republican Party is all but dead today... no solution, only observation

rowly
you are the last person i expected to play the victim card.

instead of blaming everyone and everything else for republicans you might look at your governing philosophy.

first, the idea that government is the problem does not assure americans that you can govern.
if you hate and despise government why should we elect you to run it.

second, the "back to the core basics of conservatism" is not a winning theme.

the country had 8 years of tax cuts for the wealthy and not only did the economy collapse but the middle class got nothing.

next we could talk about hypocrisy.

you cannot lecture us on abortion and then be pro-death on the capital punishment and support torture and then expect americans to think you stand for moral values.

now i am giving you a sincere critique because i truly think the country is center-right but you guys dismiss moderates and independents as too liberal and then wonder why you can't win them over when you need them.


vicky
did you even read the article, republicans used reconciliation when they were in power and by the way, were you against one party rule when the republicans controlled all 3 branches or just now when the democrats control.


13bravo
are you insane!

if politics leads you to violence you need to go for some anger management.

there is something terribly wrong with someone who wants others to help him set up a fight with someone else because of a political conversation on a message board.


Term limits
1--We need term limits. We need law makers are expert at living in the real world, not manipulating to get their agendas passed.

2--We need people who can tell the difference between intimidation and actual cutting off limbs. Washington has a perspective problem.


13Bravo

You're wasting your time. I went through the same drill a year or so ago with a couple of very rude lib commenters on this site, and they never have the guts to actually show up anywhere and back up their mouths.

I even offered to pay the costs of one of them if he had the guts to travel to the LA area for a personal meet.

No, typically these are the kinds of folks who have a lot of fire and guts while hiding behind the anonymity of the internet, and cringe away from any kind of confrontation in the real world.

They use internet anonymity to allow them to vent their frustrations without having to face any real-world consequences.

You have a better chance of winning the lotto than for any of those types of cowards to actually show up anywhere in person.


Contact Congress
Follow the link and send a personalized message to members of Congress and let them know you oppose governnment run health-care today!

http://www.conservativeoutpost.com/campaign/cta/fax_congres s

BrianR
encouraging someone to violence is reprehensible behavior.

i don't know how old you are but if you are over 30, to be talking about fighting with someone is simply boorish and immature.

but then i guess you are an example of the the tea baggers and their propensity for vile and violence.

Well, ChristLib

I'm kinda surprised at you.

"Tea Baggers"?

I know you lefties thought that was actually clever, but I had expected better from YOU.

Y'know, I'd never even heard that term before, and had no idea what it meant.

Leave it to a bunch of lefties to know about such weird behavior.

And to actually think they're being clever! THAT'S the really hilarious part about it.

Olbermann looked like complete jackass smirking like a junior highschooler talking about "teabaggers"!


When are you guys ever going to grow up?


Reconciliation?
Once again, the politicians take a perfectly good word and and make a curse from it. In their zeal to enact partisan programs, both parties are willing to do anything whether it be right or wrong. They now use a process originally meant as a tool to correct slight differences in bills as a means to shut off democratic debate. Using this method (and other slights of hand) allows the majority party to ignore the useful suggestions of the minority party.

This type of activity has nothing to do with responsible government. It servess only to gain and keep political power for "the party". I wonder how many years it has been since any of the congress critters have actually considered legislation for the greater good of the nation.

Oh, and PS, ChristLib

If you'll look at my post to 13Bravo, I actually told him to stop wasting his time.

You see, when I did the same thing a year or two ago, I was new to this commenting thing on websites. At that time, I didn't know what I told him now: that liberals are a bunch of panty-waist chickens**ts who only have any "guts" when they're hiding behind the internet.

You see, in the real world, people actually have to back up their incredible rudeness, or act polite to begin with.

For example, in the real world, you'd never have the guts to call me a "teabagger" to my face.

That's just the way things are.

I need Help. Not assistance.

Upon further reflection, I have realized that threatening violence over political disagreement is not normal behavior.

I will go seek obviously needed therapy.

"a" is such a fiesty, cute liberal I felt the need to mask my arousal with rage.

My apologies to all.

Lefties are blind
to their own hypocrisy.

They -- and in fact even civilized people -- take umbrage when terms such as "f*g" or the "N word" or other such hostile terms are used to describe groups of people.

But lefties think it's high wit and sophisticated humor to call those who attended tea parties "tea baggers".

My, my..... what hypocrites.

Yeah Brian R!
They just WISH they could be as clever as us conservatives!

We come up with REALLY clever stuff like calling the president by his middle name! Or Osama!

And those dumbacrats! OOOOOHHHHH even talking about those dumbacrats makes me mad!

Must control the rage!

Rainbows and kittens, rainbows and kittens, rainbows and kittens.

Phew.

O.k. I'm good now.

BrianR
Hi guy.

Things seem to be going pretty much as anticipated. Dumbo is doing exactly what the CINOs were doing, only much moreso. Thank goodness he is taking all the "credit". It is such a relief to have the insanity beig performed under the liberal banner. At least now if the country likes collectivism and nanny government it will not be called compassionate conservatism or some such misleading euphemism. At least now the choices are clear-cut. I was sick and tired of hearing left wing loons holler we needed to get Bush out of there so we could have some fiscal accountability. They really have it now, don't they?

With 1 out of nine homes on the market here in Brevard county, and layoffs due at the Space Center as the shuttle subsides, i look to make some good deals in the ocean front market. Its sad to see the lower clases trade their upward mobility for koolaid, but life is tough--and tougher when one is stupid.

The Reason Obama is an Appeaser - FUNNY!
This guy gets it, and he is funny as all "git out!" http://theblacksphere.blogspot.com/2009/04/obama-wants-to- be-loved.html

And our intellectual leaders
show their true wit by calling people f@ggot!

hehehehe

That made me giggle when Coulter said that.

F@ggot....

hehehehehe

Witty!

13Bravo

Evidently, you fail to grasp a very simple concept.

There's a very big difference between targeting political figures and slandering groups of everyday citizens.

Too complex for you?

Nam 65-66 #39
Cutting taxes is a hate crime.

Being taxed is forced love

Pistol. How ya doing, bro?

Yep, the Dems own it all now, succeed or fail. No one to point any fingers at, either way.

I like it this way. There's crystal clarity now.

The big question then becomes whether or not the dolts in the GOP have the brainpower to actually realize that their best bet lies in promoting traditional Reaganesque conservative principles, or if they're going to continue the "California Strategy" of chasing Left after the Dems, screaming "me too! me, too!" as they offer a slightly watered-down version of the same liberal pap.

In which case they'll become ever more irrelevant until they follow the WHIGs onto the trash heap of history.


Nam 66-65 Asks
If Congress can pass a bill...
...against a human emotion like "hate",why can't they pass a bill in favor of a human emotiom like love?

Just asking.
_____________________________
Cutting taxes is a hate crime.

Being taxed is forced love.

I's an angry conservative BrianR!
Forgive me!

You make my head spin with your fancy talk!

the Dumbocrats ain't a group of people then?

what about those traitors and appeasers who was against our righteous war to stop Sadam from blowing up the entire world with mega nuclear weapon?

Theys ain't groups of regular citizens too?

Damn traitors!

You either support W or yous a traitor!

And a libtard too!

Liberal + retard = libtard

Har Har Har!

Golly that sho is clever and witty!


13Bravo

You're one weird dude, aren't you?

Oh, and by the way.... I can see that the concept clearly WAS too complex for you.

Nice talking with you, I'm sure.

LOVE,LOVE, LOVE
Nam 65-66 Asks
If Congress can pass a bill...
...against a human emotion like "hate",why can't they pass a bill in favor of a human emotiom like love?

Just asking.
_________________
No redistribution of wealth with out the redistribution of BOOTY.

brianr
are you the same brian who had the top of the world blog with pictures during the fire?

if so, when i went to your blog it was a little more strident than i remembered.

as far as teabaggers that is the name used on fox, the vile term is "teabagging" and i did not use it.

if i jumped on you too soon, i apologise but it appeared you were encouraging bravo to fight.

brianr
on the other hand, 13 bravo may be trying to use satire or he is, in fact, unstable.

again, if you are my moderate friend brianr i do apologise but 13bravo had me incensed.

there was another brian who posted who was very radical and i may have confused you with him.

ChristLib

Yeah, that was me.

That's why I was so surprised; you and I have had some really good conversations in the past, and I know your style pretty well.

No problema, btw. Things happen.

But what's the difference between "teabaggers" and "teabagging", when we all know the smirky, snarky implication and inference in use?

Don't "teabaggers" teabag?

(I can't believe I'm actually having this discussion... LOL)

ChristLib, re your #57

That's interesting. This is the second time in two days someone's mentioned that to me, the other time at my blog when someone commented that they couldn't believe I'd taken some position on an issue which I, in fact, hadn't.

There must be someone on the site using a screen name similar to mine.


brian r
there is a difference which is why i was careful with my words.

the irony is that i learned about the term here on townhall.

according to the urban myth, teabagging is the act, but those who engage in it are not referred to as teabaggers.

now that's my take but as i said, what i know i learned here. i had never heard of it before.

once again let me apologise because you are truely one of the good guys but since i had not seen you around for awhile i assumed you were the other brian.

No sweat, ChristLib!


Don't worry about it!

To err is human, to forgive divine.

Does that make me divine? My Mom will be so proud!

LOL


As to the tea issue. I understand YOUR distinction, but c'mon... I think we'd both acknowledge that the commentators and other talking heads all thought they were being clever.

After all, the events were NOT called "tea bag parties", were they?

Why didn't they call the participants "tea partiers"? That would have been appropriate, and proper English.

We all know what was going on, and to claim otherwise would be disingenuous.


brianr
wait a minute now, you and i are both decent people and i would not have played games with you.

now i will concede that the liberal commentators had a ball with the distinction but i honestly was not inferring anything by my use of the term.

in fact, like i said, i believe i got the term listening to conservative pundits use it, although i can't remember who.

christianlib
Maybe you should go back and read my post. I don't think I was blaming anyone for Republicans failures except Republicans. One cannot be a doormat unless he lies down and lets others walk over him.

This is a dog eat dog world and if you are weak,you will lose. Republicans have all the right,moral and patriotic ideas. They are keeping it a secret.

We will win when we have a tough,strong conservative who will stand up to the immoral left. A RINO with no integrity will not do it.

We also need more than FOX News and talk radio to combat the influence of the MSM. The MSM is the main reason Obama has conned voters for as long as he has. Soon,they will not be able to prop him up.

The GOP "Rebranding"

The official video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBj6PonX14A

It's coming!
It appears to be S.O.P. these days for the Dem's to force "change" down our throats with little or no debate. Their arguements don't stand up well in the light of day so why would they want to debate?

I know that, ChrisLib

That's why I tried to draw a distinction between you and the media. I'm sorry if that didn't come through clearly.

I have no doubt about your personal intentions, as I have a pretty good feel for your personality.

But the term caught on due to the MSM's use of it, and their own approach was as a smirking disparagement. They didn't even bother to hide it. They openly sneered and even made comments about "apologizing for any double entendres", etc.

So... now you know the background involved.

Incidentally, just because someone's on Fox doesn't make them "conservative".

As a matter of fact, the tea parties were just as much against the GOP as they were against the Dems; PARTICULARLY here in Commiefornia, the land of that pig Schwartzenegger.


We need term limits?
Kathryn (click for "No More RINOs" petition)

1--We need term limits. We need law makers are expert at living in the real world, not manipulating to get their agendas passed.

What was the number one reason Republicans thought Obama should not be elected...

LACK OF EXPERIENCE in government or executive office.



Hal Donahue
I'd love to see you twisting in the wind at the end of a long rope. If waterboarding is torture then we should step it up a little.




Huck Fal
Ouck Fbama

Illegal Rules
Has it ever occurred to anyone else that this entire BS about Senate and House Rules has no basis in the Constitution? The only thing covered in the Constitution is how many votes it takes to pass a bill and how many votes are required to overturn a presidential veto. All the rest is blue sky and smoke to cover the fact that 535 greedy American legislators sit around and make decisions for 300,000,000 other Americans under a bunch of made up rules that serve no other purpose than to prolong debate. Extended debate gives them opportunities for re-election photo ops and permits them to parade their marketable skills in front of equally greedy lobbyists, but does not serve the people who pay for this nonsense. Rules like filibuster and reconciliation and “can’t get the bill out of committee” are contrary to constitutional provisions. The founders never envisioned the concept of “parties” as we have seen them develop. Many of them, Washington included, warned about parties and resisted their formation. Jefferson warned that slim majorities should not be allowed to overwhelm minorities and the 2/3rds rule covers that nicely. Summary, when will the people take back the House and Senate and fill it with people of good character who will serve a limited amount of time and return to private life non the richer except in spirit?

Reconciliation works
Libertus,
Exciting to read the comments of one well informed on the Constitution rather than the dribble spouted by the ignorant(unlearned masses) However,even though ignorance is not supposed to be an excuse, I blame my High School education as being very limited on the Constitution.(but in my later years I have compensated by self study)
Trying to make a living and rear a family hindered my studying. But getting back to the subject of this column about RECONCILIATION, my ancestors who fought for Southern Independence will tell you that it works when you do it at gun point.

Correcting my post.
Correction to statement in my post :"My ancestors WOULD, if they could, tell you that reconciliation works when you do it at gunpoint."

CharletonHeston and Rowly
dahlink! What are those eerie sounds of ecstasy emanating from the bars and watering holes in Scranton? Why it's Scranton's favorite son 'appy 'our 'arry being "water boarded" with Jack Daniels followed up with a chaser of Budweiser. Torture? I don't think so. 'arry is in seventh heaven.

willibeaux
Hey,willi....The J.Daniels-boarding is right up their alley...and everywhere else.

What Did He Know & When Did He Know It?
If you're under 35 you weren't around when "Tricky Dickey" was trying to undermine the pinnings of democratic rule of law. I was 25 at the time and it was scary. Ask anyone who lived through it. Watergate posed the question "What did he know (about the Watergate break-in) and when did he know it."
Our current commander in chief and his chief lieutenants Pelosi and Reed may some day have to answer that same question, as they seem to be pulling the same tricks as old Dick. President Obama may be cute, but he ain't that cute!

George Soros
I saw Soros on the O'Reilly show tonight. He was telling another man he wanted an investigation into the 'torture' allegations.

hypocrisy is so common
that it is no longer note worthy. There is a saying that a nation that mocks character will soon be shocked by treason. We are getting there because political expediency is more important than national interest to our "leaders" in DC. I believe we would be better served by randomly selecting our representatives (ours? really?) from phone books.

Wanna-Be 13Bravo
Hey wow my Mini-Me Wanna-Be has been here too. Excellent! I just ask that people would look at the state that Faux 13Bravo is posting from. I always post from Indiana and my little admirer posts from California; you know, the state that gave us Diane Feinstein and Barbara Boxer. And do try to remember that I can spell. Eat your hearts out everybody because I have a fan club! We will be selling 13Bravo t-shirts in the lobby later.

christianlib @11:55 AM 4/30/09
“are you insane!”

Not according to the shrink I saw a few years ago, but who knows; things and people change.

Seriously, this is not about politics. As I have shown over and over again, I can hold my own against anyone in a real debate. No this is about “a” and some other scum who repeatedly make personal attacks on others and think that they can just walk away from it. The final straw was when “a” among other vermin began attacking An Coulter on here column that was about the death of her mother. He attacked a woman who was mourning her DEAD MOTHER. That deserves a comeuppance, that I intend to deliver.

BrianR @12:10PM 4/30/09
I fully expect that you are right, but I have got to try. Who knows, maybe I’ll be the lucky one who gets one of these dirtbags to show up. At the very least I will get to do a pleasant drive in some pretty country.
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