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Sunday, March 22, 2009
George Will :: Townhall.com Columnist
Kidnapped by the Cartels
by George Will
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


PHOENIX -- Police Chief Jack Harris, a solid block of a man with a shock of thick gray hair, is stolid and patient but there are limits. Clearly he is weary of explaining that this is one of America's safest large cities, with declining rates of violent crime and property crime, even though it has one of the nation's highest rates of home foreclosures. Unfortunately, there are the kidnappings.

There were 368 reported kidnappings for ransom here last year -- perhaps more than anywhere else, other than Mexico City where kidnapping is such a long-established industry that the wealthy sometimes buy kidnap insurance. It is difficult to know how many kidnappings occurred there or here: Many are not reported because it can be dangerous to do so. And because they are settled before there is time to report them. Receiving a finger severed from the kidnap victim often speeds ransom transactions in Mexico. Not here yet.

In any case, law-abiding citizens here are rarely at risk. Most of the kidnappings are drug smugglers and human traffickers preying on one another.

Some of the smugglers who bring in drugs from Mexico bring people, too, along desert trails and through dry washes, to "drop houses." Regarding both drugs and people, Phoenix is a transshipment point: Most of both are distributed to other states. But some of the people become pawns in horrific transactions. A person in the United States might pay, say, $2,500 to have someone smuggled into the country, and then might receive a phone call: Pay another $5,000 and we will stop raping or torturing -- do you hear the screams? -- the person you want.

A small "drop house," with no functioning toilet, may, Chief Harris says, hold 60 people -- he has seen 100 -- in squalor. Fifty of them just want to move deeper into America in search of work, but all of them might have only their underwear, their clothes having been taken away to prevent them from running away.

The cross-border traffic in narcotics and people is, Harris says, just one way globalization is shaping crime. When the United States tightened controls on supplies of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, the precursor chemicals for manufacturing methamphetamine, American motorcycle gangs were pushed out of the business. The production of those drugs, which had been done in many improvised labs in rural America, or even in American kitchens, moved to Mexico, where drug-makers imported ephedrine and pseudoephedrine from China.

To the problem of reducing regular crime -- homicides in Phoenix were down 24 percent in 2008 -- Harris has applied proven methods. They include the nimble deployment of manpower to high-crime hot spots, close relations between police and neighborhoods, and intense concentration on the small number of career criminals who commit a large majority of the crimes -- often hundreds a year by each individual.

Phoenix's familiar sorts of crimes have not much to do with most of the city's immigrants, legal or illegal. They commit a smaller percentage of the crimes (10 percent) than they are of the city's population (24 percent). But the lurid crimes that are giving this city an unmerited reputation as dangerous represent the seepage of the Mexican cartels into his city.

For them, Harris says, "The answer is not in Phoenix. The answer is in Washington." We know how to close a border, says Harris with acid dryness -- " build a wall" and deploy "machine gun nests." But, "I personally think that is stupid." For now, however, the United States "has turned immigration policy over to Mexican thugs." So we have reached a point at which barbed wire, car batteries and acid become the business tools of kidnapper-torturer-extortionists.

With a force large enough to police the nation's fifth-largest city, Harris can deploy 60 officers to deal with one kidnapping. That would be impossible in smaller cities, to which such crime might be driven by success here. But "don't give me 50 more" officers to "deal with the symptoms." Rather, says Harris, who was raised in a rough Phoenix neighborhood, give me comprehensive immigration reform that controls the borders, provides for whatever seasonal immigration the nation wants, and one way or another settles the status of the 12 million who are here illegally -- 55 percent of whom have been here at least eight years.

For those whose profession it is, law enforcement sometimes seems like bailing an ocean with a thimble. Harris wants not a bigger thimble but a smaller ocean.

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About The Author
George F. Will is a 1976 Pulitzer Prize winner whose columns are syndicated in more than 400 magazines and newspapers worldwide.
 
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Switzerland Solution
Those sweet, cosmopolitan, Swiss solved their illegal immigrant problem with land mines. It was sufficiently impersonal - but effective! After all, no Swiss individual killed anyone, the criminal who tried to illegally enter their homeland administered his own death sentence. It didn't take but a couple, and word gets around! Isn't this more humane, more preferable to having the hundreds of illegals die trying to cross our deserts each year? And the loss of hundreds (thousands?) of U&.S. citizens to illegals driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs?

Border Fence
Everyone talks about the border fence, but no one seems to know anything about it. I know about it. I fly the border every sixty days and map out where the fence is (and isn't) I have been doing this for three years. I can tell George Will a few things.
First, the Secure Fence Act of 2006 called for 700 miles (at least) of double layered fence. An amendment by Texas Sen. Hutchinson allowed DHS discretion, and they used it. As of Jan. 6 they had built only 35 miles of double-layered fence. Much of what DHS calls fencing isn't fencing at all, but easily defeated vehicle barriers.
Where fencing was installed properly such as at Yuma, apprehensions of illegals dropped by more than 95%.
Finally, there is evidence that the drug war in Mexico, and the violence in Phoenix, were caused by the limited fencing and barriers that were installed. For more information see American Border Patrol dot com.

We already tried Amnesty
Remember? We already gave amnesty to a couple million. It was billed as never again, a quick fix to a problem that would never be allowed to recur. Har de har har. Those of us who scoffed were pronounced to be racists, mean-spirited family destroyers. And now the same situation, 10 times bigger? What now? Amnesty again? Then what? 10 times bigger again in 5 years? Enforce the laws, put a few CEOs of firms that blatantly hire hundreds of illegal aliens in jail. Put apprehended aliens to building roads in Alaska for a year or two. We didn't import these law-breakers. We don't have to export them. They came becasue they thought they would be better off. If this proves not to be true, they will deport themselves. Ask Sheriff Arpaio.

Good posts but......
I can hear the flapping wings of the bleeding hearted moonbats already on the way. Better spray some moonbat repellent fast!!

Tammy, A(hole), Wobbie, Hal(itosis), Soph(istry), and the other usual suspects will arrive soon to pontificate from on high in their ivory towers about the mean-spirited gringo mob DARING to keep their country the way they found it when they were growing up.

Come on idiots. The hot tub is warm.

Re: deterrents, the machine guns and other ordnance may be a bit much at this stage but I can HIGHLY recommend the LORAD. Long Range Audio Deterrence works. It stopped pirates off the African coast.

Basically it's an ultra high frequency sound generator which is focused and POWERFUL. At max power it will cause the miscreant to think a dentist is drilling every tooth in his head and hitting all the nerves at once.

They don't even have to be individually manned. You can have thermal and motion sensors to spot the mongrels approaching. Then from a central bunker with night vision cameras you can aim them at the coyotes and illegals and KEEP IT ON THEM TILL THEY RUN HOME SCREAMING!!!!!!

THEN if they still insist on scaling the first fence and cut the wire there's the second electrified fence. If they find a way past THAT then you have your 500 yards of land mines.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Wake up folks
We're going to lose this argument this time. We couldn't stop "stimulus" that was opposed by over 90% of the people who contacted Washington. This time we're going to be spotting them McCain and Grahmnesty even before we start counting the North East sell outs.

We've got to start thinking about what can we extract from the Dems in return for some level of support.

Sorry - the news isn't good - but that's the news.

Good News
The new administration has decided not to ignore the escalating violence. Obama already has plans to send resources to the border to stop trafficking of drugs, guns and cash.

WILL is IGNORANT
Will chose to write about what Jack Harris --Corrupt Toady to Mayor Phil Gordon--told him.

Mayor Gordon wanted to keep Phoenix as a "Sanctuary City"

Mayor Gordon has requested the the Feds STOP Sheriff Joe Arpaio -SEVERAL TIMES.

Jack Harris was allowed to retire from the Phoenix Police Dept (draws a pension), then return as "Safety Director"(draws a salary)

The first home invasion/murder came on or about June 24, 2008.
http://www.red-alerts.com/comintern/were-mexican-soldiers-i nvolved-in-phoenix-home-invasion/


Safety Director Harris DID NOTHING until Dec 2008
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/02/15/20090215k idnappings0215.html?&wired

Life Is Movies.
Hey, y'all. Watch "Gladiator" again. During the first 30 minutes of that film, somewhat historically accurate, notice how the Romans tried to keep the immigrants out. They won the battle, lost the war.

Many here are the descendants of those invaders. That's the way it goes.

No Discussion of The Costs
of 60 police who "respond to a kidnapping". I'm sure the taxpayers in Phoenix would like to know how their money is being spent to find kidnap victims who don't belong here being kidnapped by more people who don't belong here. I don't care about them or their problems - they brought them on themselves. In fact, when it comes to Mexico, Central and South America, how about the Catholic church stepping up to take responsibility for that mess? If it's true that these kidnap "victims" are involved in drugs, crime and general thuggery, let them die. Actions have consequences.

The reporting on immigration is skewed. At some point the government's line about environmental sanctity rings hollow when it continues to unload 3rd world refuse on us (both legal and illegal) to the tune of an estimated 2 million additional bodies here per year. Current rates of immigration inflow are not sustainable. If you want radical reductions in your quality of life look at the great example California is setting - now with new and improved water rationing. Failed immigration policies have radically increased the population for the past 20 years.

Anyone who thinks that magically waiving a wand to "legalize" illegals will somehow rid us of the immense problems mass immigration present is stupid or crazy. American citizenship is a privilege - not a right. The federal government's reducing it to a carnival prize for illiterates is revolting, offensive and expensive.

The U.S. should immediately halt all immigration - stop issuing visas until we can get our arms around the numbers of people coming in and never leaving. Stop dual citizenship. If you want to be an American citizen you shouldn't want to be anything else since that divides your loyalties. Build the southern border fence. Stop chain migration policies. No citizenship for anchor babies.

How 'Bout This?

Send Nancy Pelosi and Mousemuse to the border.

Pelosi, while there, could annouce she has decided to give the city of PHOENIX to the Mexican Drug Cartels. It's the best way to solve the problem, she'll note. Why not? It makes as much sense as any of her other ideas. Just give the vile, drug lords the whole city. Yep. I can see her coming up with that.

Mousemuse and Nancy P.

Don't they make a perfect couple?!

KOOLMOUSE
Did you really write that noboma offers help for our nation?

What flavor kool-aid are you drinking?

That Egg-plant with ears is way out of his leauge.

God help us all!

The solution is simple . . .
END THE DRUG WAR!

Spell check for koolmuse
What a string of cliches. I missed the last meeting of the Whyt Neokon Kristian Korporate Agenda group, where was that?

Noticing you are from Cali and use the cute spelling of the 60's radicals makes it klear you are a krispy kritter. Stay off the bong and stop reading Saul Alinsky.

Make note of these facts:
1.the country is 80+% Kristian
2.the country is 80+% whyt
3.kapitalism gave you the life you lead

As reference read Medved ( he's a jew), 10 biggest lies about America.

You can keep the change. The Obamination has given us nothing except bad appointments, mountains of debts and lies (see his campaighn speeces on earmarks). Socialism is a great idea until you run out of other people's money.

There is a solution:
End the federal reserve
Demand sound money

Read up on those two, I'm attending a methodist church with a whole bunch of white people who own local businesses. (I don't, I'm a skool teacher).

Will Makes a Common Mistake
Police Chiefs serve at the pleasure of the City (Council, Mayor, Manager), even when they have a contract (almost always). Failure to serve the political masters is a sure way to be on the receiving end of more manure than one person should ever be subjected. It serves a Chief well to make sure that any statements made are aligned with the will of the politicians.

The Chief may actually believe a Comprehensive solution will solve the problem, rather than invite more illegals to cross our borders. But I suspect his comment about fences and machine gun posts probably is more accurate. Then again, I'm for Comprehensive Reform: Close the borders to prevent illegal passage (nearly impossible, but we can make it difficult), require a competent electronic verification system be used by all employers, fine any employer found with an illegal worker who failed to use the verification system $10,000.00 per each illegal found, and establish a guest worker system which can track the workers necessary to make sure they leave the country when no longer needed. Oh yes, and end birthright citizenship.

Legal Immigration
The illegal immigration problem is killing us, ruining our schools, our hospitals, our cities...but our legislators wrote legal immigration policies that will do us in. Consider the mosques and Muslim schools in the US where hatred of democracy and of Christianity and of the US is being preached. Consider the small towns in America, from North Carolina to New England, that are almost completely like foreign countries. Who decided that Amsterdam, NY, for example should be Little Mexico? Then there are the Muslim, compounds in rural NY and elsewhere that are training grounds for terrorists. The deliberate "browning of America" is ongoing, and skin color is irrelevant; the problem is that these new residents are Marxists and take their politics to the street, whether or not they can legally vote.
US legislators have deliberately created a country so diverse and so unaccustomed to civilized democratic government that it is "unsustainable," to use the word of these legislator traitors.

I suggest to koolmoose...
that you look up the term 'neocon.' You appear to be using it to try to make yourself look intelligent (good luck with that) but you clearly do not have a clue as to what one is.

A neocon is a former liberal who is hawkish on foreign policy, usually but not always Jewish. They became new conservatives because of the left's increasing appeasement of communists in the 70s and America's gradual but steady moves to abandon Israel and cede their land to the Arabs. Notable neocons are William Kristol, Norman Podhoretz, Paul Wolfowitz and so on. As a rule they have little to no interest in domestic issues except where they intersect with national security.

I just thought as long as you're going to bash conservatives, you might wish to at least have some idea what you're talking about.

Let your mindless rants resume.

Red
"They became new conservatives because of the left's increasing appeasement of communists in the 70s and America's gradual but steady moves to abandon Israel and cede their land to the Arabs. "

Do you have any proof to show this makes sense? Wasn't Carter president in the 70's and what better friend could the Israelis have? I support American Jews who wish to see Israel safe and prosperous but they are going over that line when it includes manipulating our news to ignore atrocities like in Gaza or the illegal invasion of the West Bank.

Build a wall
Why is that stupid? Is it stupid because it works? Build a three tiered fence. A middle fence that is electrified and protected on both sides by a physical barrier fence.

Then provide for substantial legal immigration. Filter out the gangs.

Build a wall
Why is that stupid? Is it stupid because it works? Build a three tiered fence. A middle fence that is electrified and protected on both sides by a physical barrier fence.

Then provide for substantial legal immigration. Filter out the gangs.

Mousemuse

Mommy and Daddy find you abusing your computer privileges again? Awwww. How long was you're time-out?

Know what I think? I think TOWNHAll gave you a "time-out"! Now if they could just make that permanent. What a wonderful thought.


Re: Taft
"Wasn't Carter president in the 70's and what better friend could the Israelis have?"

you're kidding, right? You cannot possibly be serious.

Neo-Cons and invisible enemies
It seems NATO has just announced that they will have to look at the rules of engagement they have in Afganistan.

Last year Der Spiegel reported that German Special forces located and were in position to take out a known Taliban terrorist leader but failed to do so BECAUSE of the rules of engagement. They could not shoot unless shot at. They let the terrorist disappear.

Some neo-cons see things differently. We do not believe there should be another 9-11 type commission because action was not taken.

Is there any question that Illegal immigration is a problem for our health and school systems?

Legalize Drugs and Immigration
The surest sign that a policy is immoral, impractical or both is that violent criminal gangs arise as a result of that policy.

Prohibition led to the creation of huge organized crime families in the US that took over entire city governments. Previously, these gangs were small operations that tried to control prostitution and gambling. Those vices required a small investment and made it hard for the gangs to eliminate competitors.

Alcohol required a large investment and therefore a large powerful gang to control it. Banning alcohol gave the small gangs a route to riches undreamed of before.

Today, drugs represent a greater amount of wealth than even Al Capone ever imagined. With the US government doing everything possible to help the Mexican cartels by eliminating all their American and Columbian competitors, it was inevitable that these criminal gangs would expand to unprecedented size.

The immigration policy has pushed immigration into the mix providing the gangs with another source of money by smuggling human beings and then kidnapping and extorting them.

Legalize both drugs and immigration and the border problem will evaporate.

Red
Who helped knocked out Israel's number one enemy, Egypt?

The Brownshirts Are Coming!
Click my name and go to my blog and read about Obama's new brownshirt force.

The time to take action against the founding of this force is now, people.

Make sure to let your elected officials know you're against this new development on Obama's part.

George Will loves Baseball

This is a story about a subject dear to the heart of George Will, not his article today, but his life for years.

One night in 1963, I took a customer to a ball game at Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles, on the expense account. Our seat was down the first Base Line, just about on line with the pitcher, and 15 or 20 rows up the section of seats.

Duke Snyder had just been traded to the NY Mets and was now playing maybe his first game in Dodger Stadium, as a Met.

His very good friend, Don Drysdale, was pitching when Duke came to bat. The Dodgers were leading in the game, so I noticed, and mentioned to the friend in the next seat, that Don had just smiled and nodded his head, and Duke smiled and acknowledged the smile. By hindsight we should have guess what was going to happen, as the next pitch was right over the plate, then far over the Right Field Fence.

We could see the that as Duke circled the bases, they both were trying to keep from laughing our loud. Of course I don’t know this for sure, but the guy in the next seat agreed with me, and of course the thousands of fans at the game were all cheering and thrilled that Duke was able to hit Don’s best pitch over the fence. I would love to see the Video of that game.

In years past I have Emailed Vin Scully about this, but never received a response. A news clipping on Google says, “May 22, 1963 - Los Angeles' Don Drysdale beats the Mets 7-3 on two hits-homers by Duke Snider and Tim Harkness.”


Drug War Outsourcing
The war on drugs is not only a war against Americans and liberty, it is also putting our criminals out of business and sending good paying meth manufacturing jobs to Mexico, and it takes away an important market for American pseudoephedrine manufacturers and sends those customers to China. No wonder our economy is hurting.

But, at least there is plenty of work for law enforcement, courts, prison guards, hostage negotiators, violent criminals, home security systems companies, and fear mongers. Drug warriors delight.

Joel
"Truly seal all borders and ports. All shipments are inspected, and all cars and people crossing into or out of (stolen cars, fleeing criminals) the US are checked."

Impossible. The US doesn't have the resources and at the rate it is spending will within a decade or two be bankrupt.

"We put up an electified (sic) fence, topped and bottomed with razor wire with signs (in English only, after all, they are trying to get into an English speaking nation, right?) stating that there is no entry except at the designated points (highway and roads)."

Should the rest of the world follow your example, say customs forms should be in say only in Chinese or Japanese or Malay, etc.?

"Option 2: We annex or conquer Canada, Mexico, and Central America down through Panama. Take the Canal Zone back. Pause, reload, R & R. Decide whether we want South America as well."

The war in Iraq is straining the military to the point of breaking and it is a tiny fraction of the population of Mexico. I don't think this would work out too well for you.


Joel
First tell me what enemy the traitors are giving aid and comfort to? And Second, Waco and Ruby Ridge? I don't recall the Bush or Clinton administration overthrown, do you?

Hendry
Switzerland is surrounded by advanced democracies with advanced economies. Germans, French, and Italians are trying to break into Switzerland.

Sure put landmines on the border. The opinion by many in the world is that the US is little better than the DPRK, prove them right by murdering illegal migrants. Care to provide a source that in modern times Switzerland uses landmines to control illegal entry? In 1998, Switzerland banned landmines--the production, storage or use of landmines by the Swiss government is illegal. There are no landmines on the Swiss border. Switzerland is one of the key countries attempting to ban landmines by every country on earth--a move the US opposes.


Fences
"Where fencing was installed properly such as at Yuma, apprehensions of illegals dropped by more than 95%."

Real shocking news that! I can cross the border with no fence or cross the border through a double fence? Guess which one I'd pick? If you did build the fence over the entire length of the US border, people would still cross. Fences won't work, internal enforcement will, but the US doesn't have the will to do that--a biometric national ID card.

I can hear Bob Barr and the ACLU screaming already--POLICE STATE!


Joel
"Automatic "Birthright Citizenship" has to stop!"

Then amend the Constitution. The 14th has this little phrase "All Persons Born" and Wong Kim Ark in 1898 defined what subject to its jurisdiction means. Care to recall what the SCOTUS stated in that decision in 1898? "...a child born in the United States of parents of foreign descent who, at the time of the child's birth are subjects of a foreign power but who have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States and are carrying on business in the United States, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under a foreign power, and are not members of foreign forces in hostile occupation of United States territory, becomes a citizen of the United States at the time of birth."

You can get the Congress to pass a law redefining the 14th (good luck with that) and hope the SCOTUS would uphold it and reverse Wong (yeah that's going to happen) or get the Congress to pass an amendment redefining the 14th (good luck with that too).

"No more work or student visas."

That would do wonders for the US economy. Ever been inside a graduate physics class? Many are from India and China as are many of the professors. Care to examine US math and science achievement compared to its peers in the developed world?

" No split loyalties, no traveling back. Come here, earn citizenship, be loyal. Enjoy the liberty of being an American."

Laws such as this have already been declared unconstitutional (a law banning a naturalized citizen from living in the country of his birth for more than 3 years after he became a US citizen--see Schneider v. Rusk (1964). Funny you mention "liberty" see you propose laws that are the exact opposite of liberty. As for my forced service for the US, thank you, but I'll pass.

Comprehensive Immigration Reform
This was tried by Pres. Reagan and it failed. Now we have to enforce the laws and slowly but surely send people home. It will take almost as long to fix this problem as it did to create it. First is to stop calling children born in our country to foriegn parents citezens.Then, do what ever we can to enforce the laws short of violating the constitutional rights of our own citizens.{not try to apply those same rights to non citezens}. Also, end dual citizenship. We do not benefit in any way from this arrangment. You should be an American first and nothing else.
Don't let others shame you out of defending this country and its great quality of life, with their liberal guilt and moral relativism based thinking.

Joel
"The Mexican govt is culpable in all of this."

And so is the US. In the 1980s illegal entry was a trickle. In 1994 only 1.5 million illegal aliens from Mexico were in the US, since 1994, 8 million have crossed the US border. Why? NAFTA. American farmers with subsidized corn and other crops has basically destroyed the Mexican rural economy--millions have been forced off the land and those that remain have sank deeper into poverty as food prices have skyrocketed. Due to the service portion of NAFTA, Wal-Mart has flooded Mexico with cheap products from China and drove thousands of small toy firms and other small manufacturers out of business. Wages along the border actually fell after NAFTA was was implemented. Face with the choice of living in such conditions or trying to earn a living wage in the US as an illegal, many choose the US. The blame for the illegal situation is not just on Mexico's shoulders.

Michael
"First is to stop calling children born in our country to foriegn parents citezens."

Well better get to work changing the Constitution then. Read the 14th Amendment and the Wong Kim Ark decision some time.

Akagi
At least you got one thing right today.

Bio metric ID's. or a similar device to identify yourself. Years ago I opposed this, but today it makes great sense and is not a device to suppress us but rather to liberate us from criminality of all kinds.

Probably there would be counterfeit cards made, but that can be detected too. We need good ideas implemented by good patriotic citizens in this and in all countries. I do not want cards or devices that detect you whereever you are as in GPS type tracking.

That would not be conducive to liberty and freedom. The value of the USA was/is derived from our respect for individual liberty and rights, but illegals should only be treated well, not tolerated, as in go home and we will help you do that.
.

1960Republican
"how the Romans tried to keep the immigrants out. They won the battle, lost the war."

First the movie wasn't all that accurate. Commodus ruled for 15 years so his reign wasn't all that short as the movie implied. he also was killed by palace guards not a gladiator. Second, Rome didn't try to stop immigrants, they invaded their homeland and Romanized them. Rome failed to Romanize the barbarians on the frontier, and as time went on many of these became the bulk of the Roman army and as you know Rome eventually fell to the barbarian Germanic tribes.

Joel
Ruby Ridge was under Bush. August 21, 1992, care to tell me who was president on that day?

The election that year was held November 3, 1992 and Clinton didn't become president until January 20, 1993. Ruby Ridge was under Bush' watch.

As for the Constitution, I'm not overly fond of it--especially the presidential system. As for funding and that document, perhaps you should examine article one, section 8, clause 18--the Necessary and Proper Clause. With this, the Congress can pretty much justify spending money on anything.

Also point out where EXACTLY a national ID card is prohibited in the Constitution.

"Don't need the current military to conquer Mexico. There are many that would volunteer for the campaign."

A bunch of stupid rednecks with deer rifles and the Mexican Army. I'm betting on the Mexican Army in this one.


Immigrants
While it never hurts to control unlawful immigration, focusing on that as a solution won't do much good, I think. These drug gangs have accomplices throughout the southern and midwestern states, that are citizens. Also, we aren't helping matters by being the gangs arms supplier.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/02/26-0

These gangs, especially in Mexico, are just plain evil, and should get governments full attention.

Joel de O
You write some good things, and you write also with exaggerations. So are you for real, or just a guy with a lot of preoccupations you don't know what to do with.??.

I think both. Long on questions and short on answers. You appear to be short on real worldly experience. Check.??. Educated but inexperienced probably due to limited exposure to reality. Enough to convince yourself not enough to do any serious workable reform. Ah, don't take it too hard, it applies to most people, but you are pushing the envelope with your statements.
.

Akagi

semper fidelis
Be hard to fake these cards. Inside the card is a chip that would have say your fingerprint or a scan of your retina. The card goes into a reader and you then place your eye or finger to the scanner and the machine then matches the data on the chip to the scan of your finger/eye. It would be impossible to fake.


Akagi, you are good
Your history is among the most accurate every time you speak. Romans, NAFTA, where you speak clearly on what is just what you said although another factor was people like Bush who just wanted cheap labor to hold down domestic costs and therefor production and sales. But that is no good to the rest of us. We just turn around and buy from China or India or whoever offers the worst products at the best savings and lose our jobs in the process.

Immigrations is good when done by law. I applaud legal immigration to or from any country. Approximately 250,000 Americans leave the USA every year to retire or to enjoy a s different culture and life style quite often at reduced costs with more amenities. People should come to the USA, legally, for liberty and opportunities, not for other reasons as that is the single greatest reason for our success and love of country.

One word that defines America is what made and until today has kept us. LIBERTY.!!.
.

Akagi et al
By the way. Semper Fidelis is onceamarine through a mixup at TH this is presently the case although onceamarine is also the case.

Saludos, friend, and come down from your soapbox from time to time.
.

semper fidelis
I agree that immigration should be done legally. But I also recognize that due to both American and Mexican acts a good many people in Mexico live in the depths of poverty. When next to one of the richest countries on earth (largest economy, #10 in per capita GDP, #12 best in standard of living), you are going to have many of these making their way to the US (just as Africans go to Europe, Haitians to the Dom. Republic, Cambodians to Vietnam, Thai, Chinese, and Filipinos to Taiwan, etc).

As for Liberty, many of Joel's comments are the exact opposite of liberty--not to mention unconstitutional.

Non-lethal deterrents
include LORAD and motion sensitive tear gas dispensers. Low intensity electrified fences too weak to kill people but with enough of an unpleasant shock that nobody will want to try and climb them.

Then one could transplant red fire ants. Just a thought.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

law inforcement
machine gun ????? good idea

semper fidelis
Mix ups at TH are common it seems. My blog vanished last week too. Unsure if it was intentional or not.

Taiwan Marines have the same official motto "Yong Yuan Zhong Cheng" which means the basic same thing "Always Faithful" and their symbol is very close to the US--an anchor through the globe but the KMT blue circle around a 12-pointed sun over the globe. They have a neat unofficial motto too: "bu pai ku, bu pai nan, bu bai si (no fear of pain, no fear of difficulty and no fear of death.)"

Soapbox? Me? Never.

open borders not the answer
If we open the borders and legalize drugs in the U.S. it will create complete chaos. We will be following in Mexico's footsteps. Do we really want to look like Mexico? For further comments on this subject, you are welcome to click on my name to be linked to my blog.

The American Disease
The American Disease. That's the whole trouble in this country. If the
STUPID americans abstain from taking dope there wouldn't be a
problem. I use the word stupid with care. The americans have to have their Fix. If they would use their god-given brains and Stop, the
drug peddlers couldn't sell their dope for 10 cents a pound. They would starve, because that's all they know how to do.
When are the American people going to grow up. Just look at the choices they are continually making. The last election for president was an example of the americans stupidity. Personally, I think God is allowing all this to happen. When we finally get to the bottom, then we will turn to Him.

border fence
All that talk of fences and 500 yards of land mines sound cool and tough.

BUT in Texas the border is the "middle of the Rio Grande", so what this would do is give the Rio Grande and about a mile of land (houses, businesses etc) to Mexico.

Drugs and borders
The american people are the biggest user of drugs in the world. This is because we are the wealthiest country in the world.Too much money avaiable, too easy to sell , and a whole lot of money to be made. The american people are too stupid And too ignorant to stop buying all these drugs.Then you have all thse ignorant movie stars taking drugs buying and selling drugs and getting caught. These are the young children idols. They act out trying to be like them. It has even affected the baseball, football and the areanas of other sports. The kids all look up to these people as role models. These role models have got to control there actions more and remember they have to lead by example. WE have got to secure our borders. If we don't. We will have no U.S.A.
We will destroy ourselves within. This means close the border. dissiminate the outsiders into our culture, require them to speak English. Learn our customs, and maintain our heritage before our heriage dissappears.If these things do not happen Thier will be no U.S.A.

Joel-De Oppresso Liber
I just arrived on this discussion Joel-De Oppresso Liber, and it appears you are/were a member of SF/SOF. B 1/20 - 6 years.

In any event, from the two postings I just read it reads like you are being gouged about OUR U.S. CONSTITUTION, illegal aliens, and anchor babies.

For what it is worth I have got your back! Joel-De Oppresso Liber, take a visit to my website: http://www.resistnet.com/profile/semperfi YOU WILL BE WELCOMED THERE!

Semper Fi
Levi

Akagi
.
Your comments on what has happened inside Mexico are accurate. I recognized the truth in that with my post thanking you for history lessons and comments you had made on NAFTA which has been good and bad. Yes, Walmart is doing the same things to their economy that it has done for us. Kill all the mom and pop local small businesses but increase consumerism and give the big stores a lower profit margin. Walmart is building 29 new stores just in Central American countries this next year or two. That's from Guatemala south to Panama. Imagine the world in it's entirety. Walmart is the most successful business in the world by almost any bodies standards. I still don't know if that is good or bad for the world. It depends on your standards and measuring sticks which it might be. Mexico is continentally(sic) part of North America except for part of it's extreme south. The reason it entered the NAFTA as a full partner. Yes, our war on drugs is a failure, but I don't know if the war is good or bad. Some drugs probably should be legalized, ie., Marijuana, but not drugs in general. Possibly with certain standards as acceptable, powder for instance for cocaine, it might be a legal but regulated substance but not in just any form. Some how we have to get those drugs out of the hands of criminals and under control. But how.??. Illegal immigration cannot be allowed to be legal and needs to be slowed to a trickle. How, employer controls and good ID's, not with landmines. What you can't stop you can control to a reasonable degree.

After having lived and worked throughout Latin America (all of it excepting Cuba) for 30 years and with 15 years in Mexico I do know what is and is not going on. Besides my Spanish is as fluent as most of us speak English. Yes, I know when you are saying a mouth full, and when you are accurate to a reasonable degree at least on those subjects which have to do with L.A.
.

Joel de O
I tried to be somewhat nice, not enough, when saying you are short of worldly experience. "My opinion", obviously. You are on target in looking for solutions. The question is which ones. By the way, I visited your blog before writing you.

Besides there are other "Levi's" who will watch your backside. You know I would if you were truly attacked as in deadly force. We are on the same side; just from different angles and experience.
.

RE Taft
"Who helped knocked out Israel's number one enemy, Egypt?"

The last Israeli-Egyptian war was in October of 1973. The President was Richard Nixon.

You're not really up on your history, are you?

et al..
My TH posts say Florida because I have a home there, but I have other homes. From month to month I may or may not be in the USA. Now I have just one citizenship, U.S.A., though I have the legal right to others. I don't mix my loyalties nor my priorities. I am a Texan originally and lived in Central Texas for many years. I will die an American and a Texan so make no mistake about that.

I only clarify this for any interested party. I give relatively few solutions of my own. Solutions are not easy to come by nor enforce much less obtain from the idiots and self interested ones we have in Washington.

People like Pelozi and many others, are simply interested in their own personal back and front sides. Since they are in politics they want the solutions from big government. Big government, not the government of the constitution, is anathema to our liberties by definition. Therefore those folks do what ever is good for them and theirs and little that is good for the country. The definition possibly of anti-patriotic. Therefor they are to many of us, traitors. Far worse than useless they are our internal enemy. The most dangerous that any country could have, and get paid by us and respected for their disloyalty and/or ignorance.

Just look at some of Obama's appointments. An incapable, crook with no loyalties for Secretary of State. Need I say more of the obvious. The question is, are we as a people already to stupid to save ourselves or is there enough citizenry left to turn things around. If a group of us arm ourselves, a group, there will be others ratting out on any efforts and then there are the blackhawks and black uniforms with masks and boots to make things very difficult. These are not flintlock conditions.

We are right to discuss immigration and drugs and whatever, but "they use it to do many things, ie., identify potential internal enemies, and to keep us stirred up about anything that will distract us from the direction we are following.
.

Joel de O
I did probably make the mistake of confusing two people with one. And you have the absolute right and duty to defend the constitution, our way of life and liberty. I am late sixties and going so I have a pre-socialists and patriotic education and outlook in addition to any formed since then. Ancient relatives of mine were in the original Continental Marines among other things. They were also in the Confederacy and it's armies as well as my dad and my sons in the U.S. Marines. One boy was known as "Animal" so you can imagine. Must have taken after his mother, yes, I am sure that is the case, but if you want a back or front side watched and defended there is no better. A great mathematician who walks and talks like a gorilla and looks like his other grandfather, hair all over him and smart about somethings. We, you and I, all have our individual qualities. They are all needed at sometime in some way by someone.

Please excuse my original letter. I woke up badly this morning, and don't normally criticize people but rather ideas and misconceptions.
.

Joel
"Birthright: "All persons born...AND SUBJECT TO THE JUSRISDICTION THEREOFF". Children born to non-citizens CANNOT be subject to the Constitution, as they are born to parents that are not subjent to the Constitution. Ergo, they are not citizens. If they and their parents want to earn citizenship, well and good. If not, leave."

And the SCOTUS in US v. Wong Kim Ark (1898) addressed that issue. Under English common law which US law is based, children born inside the country were citizens--only children born to foreign diplomats and children born to enemy forces engaged in hostile occupation of the country's territory (e.g. the Japanese on Attu--though no children were born on Attu during the occupation) were excluded. They added one more condition--American Indians. So children born to most non-US citizens on US soil are indeed US citizens.

I actually support free trade and NAFTA, but understand with most things there are winners and losers and in regards to NAFTA most of the losers have been the Mexican poor.

"As for the "rednecks" you disparage, most of them are veterans of the most professional military the world has ever seen."

Like Timothy McVeigh. I have not been overly impressed by the American enlisted ranks at least as it existed in the 1980s when I had contacts with it. As for the officer corps, no dispute.

"I am glad that you are willing to admit that you don't care for the Constitution."

Yes the winner-take-all presidential system where millions have their voice unrepresented--e.g. Perot in 1992. Yes. I much prefer a parliamentary system using the single non-transferable vote system. Much of the amendments especially the Bill of Rights, I am quite supportive of.

So George
is now campaigning for immigration "reform." Guess he wants his housekeeper and gardener made legal.

Over 80% of U.S. citizens don't want amnesty, want our borders secured, and most wouldn't mind the deportation of the 12, 15, 20, 30 million illegals who are now here (I notice the estimate is never the same).

But I'm sure our betters will make the decision that is best for all of us serfs.

semper fidelis
Wal-Mart is also in China. It has stores in Guangdong, Yunan, Sichuan, Chongqing, Fujian, Hunan, Hubei, Zhejiang, Jiangsu, Anhui, Jiangxi, Henan, Hebei, Liaoning, Jilin, Heilongjiang, Tianjin, Guangxi, Guizhou, Shanxi, Beijing, Shanghai, and Shanxi.

HomeDepot is there too. In Tianjin, Beijing, Xian, Qingdao (home of Tsing Tao Beer), among others.

Illegal Immigration
Again, a mediocre article by liberal Will. The 10% stat is for sure erroneous, even if it came from “reputable” sources. Those sources are too often tainted, manipulated, and/or influenced by special interest groups who are either for caving in to or abetting the illegal immigration issue. Daily life in these parts validates the sheer frequency and seriousness of crime committed by illegals as disproportionate for that population. I live in Arizona and know of Chief Harris’ less than aggressive actions in pursuing real crimes perpetrated by illegal immigrants. He’s both complacent and certainly not a staunch advocate of enforcing the law that he’s been hired to enforce when it comes to the criminal rabble in question. Every illegal alien has broken numerous laws, many of them felonies and deserves to be pursued, detained, prosecuted, incarcerated, and deported. The way things are going is that the illegal immigrant has as many rights if not more than the law-abiding citizen. RIDICULOUS and OUTRAGEOUS!
The only courageous law enforcement “star” is our Sheriff Arpiao who enforces the law with the limited resources he has. And now special interest groups have coerced three politicos to initiate an investigation of Arpiao’s crime sweeps with the presumption that something is askew. This country is really going down the proverbial toilet!

The collective costs to society are mind boggling but their everyday behavior is also objectionable. They make no effort to learn English, have no sense of hygiene standards like not spewing their garbage all over the place, and they generally have a thug’s mentality. You get the sense that these people are here to invade the country and they are quietly fulminating that they can’t rob, rape, and pillage at will as if it was their due. We must deal with this situation with real resolve; “take the kid gloves off”. Mexico must also take responsibility for the exodus and take appropriate measures.

Akagi
A bunch of stupid rednecks with deer guns vs. the Mexican army? And you’d bet on the Mexicans?

Do you suppose King George III made a similar bet in 1775? You do know from your history that with a very tiny force in 1846, we took over that whole country, don’t you? And have you not seen many examples of small forces from Western countries conquer Third World crotch of the globe nations? We took Afghanistan with 200 special forces, something the entire Soviet Empire couldn’t do with their entire military after 10 years.

I’d bet on the white guys with guns, especially those you spoke so derisively of earlier today. Any weaknesses in America have always been our civilian leadership who have no honor and no will to win. But don’t bet against Midwestern and Southern white boys with guns. Too many did and they lost.

Real Americans will defeat and crush any other culture or nation. Ask the invincible Germans and Japanese. We beat them both at the same time.

It is not us that loses wars, but our globalist, sell-out misleaders.

The only reason you’re not laboring in some Red Chinese copper mine is because American enlisted men and noncoms stood ready to defend your ancestors and you, so you could come over here and bad mouth us. They’re ready still even after all the insults and derision of latter day immigrants, flooding here and no where else so they too can bad mouth us while taking our free safety nets.

Every day you live in America proves me right.

Joel
"As for the Mexican poor, I do care about their plight. I just do not approve of the solution they have chosen. If they came here to become Americans, truly I would welcome them. They don't. They send money back to Mexico, they refuse to learn English, and they turn their neighborhoods into "little Nogales". They bring with them the cultural conditions that made their country a pit..."

Hispanic immigrants assimilate no slower than immigrants of the past. Nearly 90% of second generation Hispanics speak English fluently or well. Yesterday I met a women from Zhejiang, she spoke English fluently--although with an accent. Once I knew she was from China we spoke in Chinese. Her daughter playing with my daughter spoke English as did my own--mine (like hers I imagine) prefers English over Chinese and due to "Handy Manny" says Spanish words more so than Chinese.

Those you are complaining about are not immigrants and they have no intention of staying in the US forever or becoming Americans and no different from American expats working in Japan or Saudi Arabia--how many of those become Japanese or Saudis? They come to the US, work, send money back home and one day return home themselves once they'd made enough to retire or start their own business in their home town or whatever.


Joel--SCOTUS
As for the SCOTUS, well since it is charged with deciding what is constitutional and what is not, it does decide what the constitution means and what it does not. In 1868 when the 14th was drafted and ratified there was no such thing as an illegal alien. That didn't happen until 1882 with the first of the Chinese Exclusion Acts which is the reason there was a US v. Wong Kim Ark in the first place. Perhaps you don't like that idea, but that is how the system works. If today any president refused to enforce a SCOTUS ruling, I would bet impeachment hearings would soon follow. Eisenhower toyed with the idea of not enforcing Brown v. Board, but his advisers convinced him otherwise. He didn't like the ruling, but sent in the military to Little Rock to enforce the ruling.

JD
"Do you suppose King George III made a similar bet in 1775?"

Without the French and then Spain joining the war, the colonists would have lost and the US would be like Canada today I suppose.

"You do know from your history that with a very tiny force in 1846, we took over that whole country, don’t you?"

US forces outnumbered Mexican forces 2:1

"And have you not seen many examples of small forces from Western countries conquer Third World crotch of the globe nations?"

Give me some and I can comment on them.

"We took Afghanistan with 200 special forces, something the entire Soviet Empire couldn’t do with their entire military after 10 years."

Mostly with the aid of the northern alliance and except for small areas around Kabul, the country is basically back in the hands of the Taliban.

"Ask the invincible Germans and Japanese. We beat them both at the same time."

Compare the US to Japan or Germany in WWII. I invite you to read this article:

http://combinedfleet.com/economic.htm

"The only reason you’re not laboring in some Red Chinese copper mine is because American enlisted men and noncoms stood ready to defend your ancestors and you..."

First you assume I am from China, assume I am an immigrant. Both large assumptions. Second, China isn't "Red." And third, China today is freer than it has ever been be it the imperial system, the ROC or PRC.

In a battle between rednecks with rifles and the Mexican army with heavy armor, attack helicopters, attack aircraft such as the F5E, I will bet on the Mexicans. As for southern boys, they didn't fare to well against the better armed Union especially when it was armed with Henry Rifles and Sharps Carbines. Sorry, but civilian-class rifles are no match for a modern military.


Treat the drugs, and then - - - -


Richard E. Location: ME
Reply # 65
Date: Mar 22, 2009 - 2:59 PM EST
Drugs and borders
The american people are the biggest user of drugs in the world.
========

I say take all drugs found anywhere, treat them with some kind of killer drug, then put it back on the street. It shouldn't take long to stop drug users, from being drug users.

I have never heard of any illegal drug user, or illegal immigrant that I care one little speck about.

If you want proof the illegals are specks of human garbage, just remember that Georgie Washington, Tommy Jefferson, and Benny Franklin didn't hate their country enough to leave, they loved it enough to stay and make it great.

O.
You are ninety percent or so on target. It's not that all Mexicans are that way. It is because too many come from high crime areas and not enough are off the farm so to speak. One in every four or five is from Mexico City and many more from a few other states or cities that are crime ridden. There was a case just recently where a young Mexican student from a well to do family studying in the U.S., his father is an American married and successful in Mexico, was found dead the next morning after going out. Later they found that he had withdrawals from numerous ATM's and they found one with a working camera. It had two policemen with him. The local to date police force is notoriously inefficient by design or accident, both are the case, and could not even get any evidence. The father ran ads, etc., and hired private investigators and eventually identified the culprits. Then when the order to pick them up was given it was radioed and of course they heard it and disappeared. Well the father eventually found them working a construction job in Colorado and had them arrested and returned for trial. That's the way we do business.

One problem we have is those that are here see our police force with their concern for rights and good handling as a weakness to be exploited because when the Mexican police want to get you with or without evidence for a court they get you and beat the H out of you or kill you. So they see us as easy marks. We are. Our homes are unprotected by Mexican standards, our police are too polite and correct and our people are used to dealing most of their life with only limited exposure to a few possible problems due to our original environment and upbringing.

You are right. Too many too fast and a lack of assimilation is the thrust of the problem. Pardoning them invites more. We need to slim down what we have and there will be far less immigrant squalor and crime for all of us. Nothing else will save the country.
.

As for leaving the country, Jim
Our forefathers as founders fought to make a country which they accomplished. However, when you lose or have other things in your life unrelated to war you might leave. Many Confederates left after losing, not before.

Many good residents in 1776 had politics that was less severe with King George or were simply unwilling to risk there life and fortune and went to Canada. The simple act of moving should not be considered in my opinion as unpatriotic or final unless the person also goes away bad mouthing the U.S. which some Americans overseas do constantly while others would come home in a day if they were needed and could help.

Please try to distinguish between one person and another. We are full of Americans who are home in the U.S., were in the service, vote and are very critical of our basic institutions and anything historical. They are unpatriotic stupid fools. I have spent many years outside the U.S. but don't put that on me.

Thanks for your time.
.

But personally
Yes, but personally until it happens your problems won't go away - STUPID.
" For them, Harris says, "The answer is not in Phoenix. The answer is in Washington." We know how to close a border, says Harris with acid dryness -- " build a wall" and deploy "machine gun nests." But, "I personally think that is stupid."
SURE YOU DO. MAKE NO MISTAKE, THE AUTHOR IS STUPID ENOUGH TO BELIEVE YOU, AND TO PRINT IT.

George Will: Keep the borders open!
Whenever I read an article by Will or another of the open-border apologists, I always know it will build to one and only one sad cowardly unpatriotic point: Let's have another amnesty!

"Rather, says Harris, who was raised in a rough Phoenix neighborhood, give me comprehensive immigration reform ..."

As far as how in the heck legalizing millions of lawbreakers will help us with the violent drug cartels and the zillions more illegals that will have even more incentive to come in, don't bother asking Mr. Bowtie.
- - -
Border Enforcement + Immigration Moratorium = Job, Crime & Eco Sanity

moonbat deterant
"THEN if they still insist on scaling the first fence and cut the wire there's the second electrified fence. If they find a way past THAT then you have your 500 yards of land mines."

and thats how they roll.

Agaki.
Smart guy, you. Commodus did play at being a gladiator, entered the ring many times. He wasn't as bad an emperor as the movie suggests, as you know, I'm sure. As movies go, "Gladiator," again, was fairly accurate, historically -- as to the politics of it all.

The point of my post was, the immigrants won, in the end. That's why I'm here (in the USA). They always win, eventually, as I'm sure you know. Not in the movie, though, merely in real life.

Ask the Hawiians. Ask the original peoples of Austrailia. We had to immigrate half-way around the world, to do that one.

Accordingly, we could sure use a "Gladiator," to hold the "others" off, for a while longer, huh?

None to be seen, so far.

What the hey, I got my 27 holes of Golf in, today. Nothing else matters. At age 71, I'm out'a here soon, anyway. You can have it.

Jack Harris
Mr. Will: You have been fooled by Jack Harris! He is NOT our Police Chief - he is the Public Safety Manager - a created position by our Mayor & City Manager to make it legal to re-hire him after Harris had retired from the Phoenix PD. Harris has done nothing to protect we the citizens of Phoenix from illegals. Illegals commit 90% of the gun crimes - what did PD do???? Dis-ban the gun squad! Yes, there are 2 det. who only suffle paper. No pro-active work, no more working the gun runners from Phx to Mexico. The 4 man squad was doing such a good job with ATF - they shut them down! Don't tell me Harris is a great man - we know the truth!! Why is Harris fighting Sheriff Joe? Why - because Phoenix is a sanctuary city! Crime has gone down because of Sheriff Joe NOT because of Harris - but he is taking credit for it. Harris & Gordon both are ver pro-amnesty. Don't fall for their lies!

Akagi Part 1
Because of TH’s foolish attempts to stifle the exchange of superior arguments, I am forced to divide my response to you in two parts.

You are like many walking encyclopedias, full of data but unable to synthesize it and reach valid conclusions. This is characteristic of progressive intellectuals, most of whom are Obama voters.

So what if the French and the Spanish lent their assistance to our revolution? What if they hadn’t? You theorize, but you cannot know that we would not have prevailed. It is equally likely that other nations would have joined us in hopes of profiting somehow. France and Spain were not the only powers seeking to defeat Great Britain. Besides, history tells us that great powers do not always prevail when waging imperialist wars as their citizens tire of the loss of blood and treasure. Your proposed outcome had not France and Spain helped is only one of many. I choose to believe we would have won anyway. You cannot disprove it.

What does it matter how we won in Afghanistan? We used many weapons of war, not just our own materiel.

Akagi Part 2
The reemergence of the Taliban is a failure of our civilians leadership, not our military. Our very young men and women, most of whom were enlisted, did a superb job as they always do. Failures are always the fault of the civilian leadership and the high ranking officer corps, whom you valued so much 30 years ago. After pay grade 06, military brass are politicians.

You have too much faith in the quality of men and material in third world countries. Without American technical expertise and consultation, both deteriorate. Especially in corrupt cesspools like Mexico, their conscripts and paid gangsters in uniform have no appreciation for standards and upkeep of machines and weaponry. Trust me, I know. Their military are bullies and tyrants who will fold in the face of principled and determined adversaries.

You ignore the fact that most American rednecks are veterans. If necessary, and for a good cause, they will perform just fine.

And these rednecks have military grade assault weapons with high capacity magazines, flash suppressors and bayonet lugs which scares the hell out of you progressives.




JD
"So what if the French and the Spanish lent their assistance to our revolution? What if they hadn’t? You theorize, but you cannot know that we would not have prevailed."

No historian has ever claimed the colonists would have prevailed without France. What the colonists were able to do (thanks in part of the British Empire's incompetence) was buy time until France (and Spain and others) thought it worth the risk to side with the colonials.

"What does it matter how we won in Afghanistan?"

"You" haven't won in Afghanistan. You are in many ways like the Soviets--a puppet regime in Kabul and the immediate area and one that would collapse immediately the second you left.

"Failures are always the fault of the civilian leadership and the high ranking officer corps..."

Same with the Soviets.

"You have too much faith in the quality of men and material in third world countries."

Even when the term was valid, Mexico would not be considered a Third World Country, but an NIC like Taiwan, the ROK, Hong Kong, and Singapore were in the 1970s--today Brazil, Mexico, China, South Africa, Malaysia, the Philippines, Turkey and Thailand. How much contact have you had with the Mexican military to rate how well it cares for its equipment or how well its troops preform.

The Mexican Army is a modern army and rednecks with civilian class arms would be no match for F4Es, Black Hawks, 105 mm howitzers, M60s and the like.

I'm not a progressive and even if societies with strict gun laws like Taiwan and Japan are safer than the US, I'd not like to see guns taken away from the law abiding. By and large, I am not worried about the law abiding having guns--and cosmetic things like pistol grips and bayonet mounts and flash suppressors don't bother me.

1960GOP
"The point of my post was, the immigrants won."

Not sure I'd call them immigrants, but invaders often win--the Japanese over the Ainu, the Han over the Yuanzumin (once called Shanditongbao--Mountain Comrades) in Taiwan and on and on.

In Rome's case the invaders were less advanced which was a break from the usual cases such as the Hawaiians, Moari, Ainu, etc.

semper fidelis
Many Confederates went to Brazil where they became known as Confederatos. The major settlement is Americana in the State of San Paulo--about 10% of the town are descendants of the Confederatos. Some 10-20,000 of them moved to Brazil after the war and were important in helping Brazil's cotton industry as well as introducing new crops like Pecans. Never knew of them until a few years ago when National Geographic did a special on them. Many though returned back to the US eventually. Robert Toombs, former CSA Secretary of State fled to Cuba before returning to the US a few years later.

As for the Tories. Only about 1/3 of the colonists supported the revolution, another 1/3 supported the crown and another 1/3 didn't really care. After the war, the Tories were forced to leave--some did go to Canada--much of English-speaking Quebec was a result of Torie settlement while others went to Bermuda or the West Indies.

As for leaving the US, there are thousands who live abroad and as you stated, few could be called unpatriotic. Probably many more of those inside the US borders--many on TH would include me among them.


Jim
"If you want proof the illegals are specks of human garbage, just remember that Georgie Washington, Tommy Jefferson, and Benny Franklin didn't hate their country enough to leave, they loved it enough to stay and make it great."

All three were from the upper class of American society too. Not too many elite Mexicans leaving Mexico to be illegals in the US either. Plenty of Americans from day one have struck out from the US to make their fortune elsewhere too--Hawai'i (it was before the Americans did their shady dealings an independent country), Central America, China, Hong Kong, Africa and on and on. Today there are thousands and thousands of Americans living abroad, earning a living.

As for illegal drugs. I'd much rather see pot legal than booze. If you own your body, you should have the right to do to it what you will--do pot, do LSD, drink gasoline. If you don't own your body, then the government does. What else do you think the government should be able to tell you what you can and can not do with your body?

JD
One last thing, you take 5000 of your rednecks with their "assault" rifles and I'll take one of Mexico's 6 brigades--along with their 8 F5Es and their 6 UH-60s and we'll see who wins. Anyone on TH willing to bet on the rednecks? I'm taking the Mexican Army in this fight.

How well you think your assault rifles will do against the armor of a Mexican V-150 or AMX-13? Think those 9mm rounds will do much against 40mm of armor and probably scatter you pretty well when it unloads that 20mm gun on you. Do they sell API rounds to rednecks at the local gun shop?

illegal immigration
This illegal immigration problem is getting ridiculous. If we need people, they should be welcomed at the border, and as many as we need. They could be checked if legitimate, and given biometric IDs then and there. This expecting needed workers to have to sneak across the border with who knows what kind of garbage is not only unfriendly, its downright racist and really degrading to not only them but to us as a well. The border should be buttoned up tight.

Agaki.
All one needs to do against Mexico's brigades is to buy off their officers, then the Mexican brigades, no matter how well equiped, will fight alongside the Rednecks, or anyone else the payor desires.

That's the way it is often done, as you know. The same way Great Britain "took" India, at the same time it was resisting insuurection in these colonies.

By the way, there is not a more illegal immigrant than a well armed and organized one. A rose, by any other name, etc.

You, sir, may interpret history any way you like. Unfortunately, you can't change history.

Agaki
That's funny ...most "assult" rifles are chambered 5.56mm and 7.62mm not 9mm. You need to stop using wikipedia for your arguments.

a concurrent post
(in the style of e.e. cummings)

curmudgeon Location: AR
Reply # 141
Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 12:34 AM EST


easy solution,
but rejected by corrupt american politicians. to stop the human smuggling, all that needs to be done is rigorously enforce the laws against hiring illegals. make it just too risky to even think of hiring an illegal. huge fines, rewards to citizens who turn them in. end of the illegal influx. end of human smuggling. but, this easy solution is out of the question. too many politicians benefit from the cheap labor. too many politicians bent on the destruction of america by illegal immigration. so, expect more human smuggling, due to our criminal politicians of both parties.

what MUST be done
Watch the Chosen One press for Scamnesty promptly using the hackneyed stratagem line, "bringing people out of the shadows," under the guise of getting ILLEGALS to help fight drug cartels... that is like treating the leukemia patient with injection of cancer cells so he won't die of leukemia!

As a dedicated soldier in the fight to save America from myopic acceptance of the ILLEGAL invasion, I surely appreciate the frustration of the majority with quisling politicians.

HOWEVER, the fight is NOT lost!!!
We stopped Kennedy-McCain Scamnesty, then killed the artful/disingenuous "Dream Act," a liberal stratagem to give ILLEGALS a free community college education and a path to citizenship, and blue state N.Y. stanched the guvner Spitzer's scheme to give ILLEGALS licenses, which 77% of Americans oppose per Rasmussen, because licenses are a step toward voting and scamnesty.

Join the fight, Middle America to save YOUR COUNTRY!!!!!!!!

The BEST group to assist you is Numbers USA... several senators agreed that they were the group most responsible for stanching Kennedy-McQuisling Scamnesty:

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/

They have targeted e-mails and messages for Congress, OR you can contact Congress directly at the official sites right here:

http://www.congressmerge.com/

BOOKMARK it, and rattle those cages in Congress often! Save YOUR country before it is too late!

Blue dog Çrats are already starting to resist the ObaMessiah and the hard left-- hope is NOT lost, BUT it WILL require dedication from Middle America!



demand E-verify and SAVE Act!

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/enforcement/workplace-ver ification.html

Even as Mexican drug cartels are spreading their virulent violence over here, and ILLEGAL alien labor continues pirating jobs that Americans will DEFINITELY do, and milking American social services, the ObaMessiah and the left have stopped construction of the fence. Why?! Because those are future big entitlement guvment 'Çrat voters crashing the border!

While America needs SOME educated, skilled LEGAL immigrant labor, the so-called "cheap" labor (the largely ignorant, indigent ILLEGAL aliens) are REALLY egregiously expensive all-in to America.

Your hotel room and Tyson Chicken is no cheaper to YOU, BUT YOU get stuck with the tab for the myriad social services they will prey upon and the pandemic social pathologies (crimes, barrio blight, drugs, gangs, illegitimacies, dropouts, cultural disparateness) they pervade like a scourge of locusts.

Get angry, folks!!! Insist that Congress require E-verify and pass the SAVE Act. You can EASILY reach them at their official sites right here:

http://www.congressmerge.com/

BOOKMARK it and contact them OFTEN! They love hearing from you!

The SAVE Act was introduced by Democrat Heath Shuler.

http://proprietornation.blogspot.com/2007/10/save-act-follo w-up.html
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/issues.html
http://www.house.gov/list/speech/ca50_bilbray/March_14_2008 _Washington_Times_Save_the_SAVE_Act.html

inveterate naysayer, gadfly Agaki
Agaki gave me grief the other day about my assiduous opposition here to ILLEGAL aliens, but curiously, he always shows up to play the iconoclast on the other side-- braying that current minorities are outbreeding Americans of Euro heritage, and invading in numbers too great to stop...

That seems rather like celebrating pollution or cancer permeating, given the pandemic social pathologies which are concomitant with ILLEGAL aliens.

A wall is stupid
" We know how to close a border, says Harris with acid dryness -- " build a wall" and deploy "machine gun nests." But, "I personally think that is stupid."

Why? Why is that stupid other than because you think so? I've heard a dozen liberals say "Walls aren't the answer." As if this is some sort of truism like "The sun is hot."

I've yet to hear a rational reason why securing our borders physically is not at least a part of "the answer".

HD74
The M16 is 5.25 and the AK47 is 7.62. The TEC-9 is 9mm. I didn't specify the make of the "assualt" rifle. If I had said AR-15 and claimed it was 9mm, you'd have a point, but I didn't and you don't. The point is no matter if it is 5.25, 7.62 or 9.0, you aren't going to do any damage to a light tank with 40mm of armor. They don't sell LAWS at the local gun shop or API rounds.

As for Wiki, from what I have seen accurate--mostly--however, I don't keep details of the Mexican Army in my head--the ROC Army is a different matter--so I did have to look up what type of armor they used. I'd have assumed that would have at least the M48 if not the M60--they don't. But in any event, those French-made light tanks not to mention their airpower (the F5Es and UH-60s)will make easy work of JD's rednecks with whatever small arms they may be carrying.

Oracle
"That seems rather like celebrating pollution or cancer permeating, given the pandemic social pathologies which are concomitant with ILLEGAL aliens."

I don't give you grief for opposing illegal aliens; I give you grief for supporting xenophobic organizations and having some fixation with the racial make-up of the US. I also give you grief for cutting and pasting the same crap over and over again any time the column has even the most remote relationship to illegal aliens. If a column were about the importance of foreign language education in US elementary schools, you'd post the same "The real cost of 'cheap' labor" crap in response. I don't per se celebrate the soon to be minority status of whites, just pointing out that will be the case in 40 short years.

Like to remind me of the social pathologies actual immigrants bring to the US. It isn't Chinese immigrants like the one I met from Zhejiang this weekend cooking meth in trailers out in Coweta County or Cherokee, but some of JD's native-born rednecks.

HD74
One more point, if I had used Wiki to support my argument on assault rifles--it doesn't specify the size of the rounds under such designation.

concurrent post from the war zone
(slight edit)

anderson659
Location: AZ

Date: Mar 19, 2009 - 4:08 PM EST

Living in Arizona in the Phoenix metro area, we have more kidnappings than any other place on earth except Mexico city.

We also have uniformed hit squads of ILLEGAL aliens carrying out murders. We have ILLEGALS who have purchased homes with just a T.I.N number, obtained a mortgage, and now have cashed out and left the tax payer holding the bag... BY the thousands of homes.

Recent count of inmates booked into Maricopa County jail since late 2007 that are ILLEGALS is well over 20,000

Illegals are NOT simply doing the jobs Americans don't want. They are being used as cheap labor. Basically the employers who hire them are cheating everyone.

Robert can tell you that a raid at a Waterpark last year netted a dozen or so. Within three days the positions were filled with legal Americans who took those jobs.

The same with raids all over the Phoenix valley. You cannot get a legal American child into Head Start by my home because all slots have been filled with ILLEGAL aliens. The Maricopa County hospital on any given weekend is filled to the brim with people who are illegal, need treatment and can not pay for it.

Legal Americans who are poor are left out.

In southern Arizona emergency clinics are closing and some are going bankrupt because they do not have enough paying customers to keep the doors open. ILLEGALS use them as their own private health plan.

The Maricopa County sheriff is being witch hunted for doing his job and deporting ILLEGAL aliens.

Mexico's number 1 export? CRIME!
What is Mexico's major export to America? CRIME! One of the most disingenuous ploys of their apologists is the mythology that ILLEGAL alien laborers are simply good, hard-working people just trying to get along and "just doing those jobs Americans won't do"-- as if we only benefit from their being here.

First artful ruse debunked-- they DO DISPLACE Americans in decent-paying construction and food processing jobs that Americans will DEFINITELY DO.

By definition, ALL ILLEGALS who work here are committing identify fraud and usually also tax fraud at a minimum. As soon as they seek medical care and other social services, they are breaking the law again.

The correlation between Hispanic ILLEGALS and serious crimes is high-- about 3 times that of the native population, and drugs and gangs permeate with them like an insidious plague.

A key verity-- TRUE enforcement of EXISTING laws would go a long way to returning many ILLEGALS where they cannot commit crimes at the expense of American taxpayers.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51259
http://www.milnet.com/mex-nat.html
http://immigration.procon.org/
http://www.protectourusa.com/
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_ill egalsandcrime
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1738432/posts
http://www.newswithviews.com/Kouri/jim62.htm

the myth of the fence cost

One of the egregious, red herring canards about building the border fence is the projected cost. POPPYCOCK!

What will REALLY be staggering are the colossal socio-economic costs associated with the tsunami of ignorant, indigent ILLEGAL aliens if their invasion is not stanched and reversed via attritive repatriation following REAL enforcement of EXISTING laws.

For several billion AT MOST, we could have an impenetrable fence. Presidente Jorge Bush finally acceded to the CLEAR will of the people and instructed that the fence be constructed, and progress was rapidly being made, but the Chosen One and the left have killed it-- because ILLEGALS are leftist voters in waiting.

Your federal government spends billions of your tax $ A DAY! Worse still perhaps, it is paying for its profligate ways by borrowing WAY TOO MUCH and printing $, making your fuel price soar, which multiplies through the economy, even as global companies outsource your jobs overseas.

Your government is substantially squandering $3 TRILLION all-in (per TIME) on Iraq because some neoCONS around Presidente Jorge (Wolfowitz, Perle, Abrams, Libby, Wurmser... and buddies Kristol, May, Ledeen, Gaffney, Krauthammer) wanted permanent bases there to protect Israel... the REAL reason we took out Saddam, who was a secular ENEMY of Osama.

For what we spend in a few DAYS on Iraq, we could have a border fence that would last like the Pyramids! And BOY would it FINALLY send a different message to the millions of largely ignorant indigent who want to milk America for its currently unprotected bounty.

why do "sanctuary" cities exist?

When the ILLEGAL alien employer lobbies buy the right pols, we end up with "sanctuary cities": polities willfully violating federal and state laws, and common sense and decency, so taxpayers/citizens can subsidize miscreant employers with "cheap" labor, whose all-in costs to society will prove staggering and enervating/crippling.

The ILLEGAL aliens come like bugs to a light-- it makes sense from THEIR perspective when they can earn 10x what they can in Mexico, whose corrupt government instructs them on how to exploit America... how to tap into welfare, especially upon pushing out an "anchor baby"-- the magic ticket.

When our citizens become aware of the scams at hand, as with Kennedy-McAmnesty last year or the Dream Act (which would have given ILLEGALS college tuition money and led to citizenship) in 2008, the body politic becomes righteously indignant and roils at Congress and other quisling pols.

But the Conspiracy Of Evil represents moneyed, determined forces which want to use ILLEGALS for different self-aggrandizing ends, though ILLEGALS are inimical to the best socio-economic interests of the great majority, and to America as a nation.

See further posts to follow with more details and ways that YOU can get involved to save your country. We MUST keep after the pols at ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT to stop the limited special interests from selling out America for self-enrichment.

It's really safe...except for the crime
"Clearly he is weary of explaining that this is one of America's safest large cities, with declining rates of violent crime and property crime...Unfortunately, there are the kidnappings."

Over one kidnapping per day,no less. No wonder Harris is so weary arguing his case.

Statistics on Phoenix's rate of property and violent crime aren't so good, overall, either.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2008/snapsho ts/PL0455000.html

Should be
*property and personal crime*

There is a route to citizenship ...
For those who want to live here permanently, there is a route to citizenship. It starts with filling out paperwork in the country of origin and it takes a long time. I know of people in South America who are respecting our country's laws and filling out paperwork and more paperwork in their home countries and waiting and waiting. It fries me that we look at those people and others waiting, patiently, legally in line for entry, some in refugee camps, and we even consider putting at the head of the line, with el zippo waiting, those who have broken our laws to enter and are currently working with falsified documents.

George Will
writes, "For those whose profession it is, law enforcement sometimes seems like bailing an ocean with a thimble. Harris wants not a bigger thimble but a smaller ocean."

Pretty impressive for a law enforcement type. Must have a little libertarian DNA in those genes. A smaller ocean. What a novel concept. Of course, I wouldn't go so far as to simply include the oil slick in my definition of ocean but, it can certainly be applied wisely to many other areas.

If Obama can spend Trillions
why not do away with the hi-speed rail to Las Vegas and pay attention to this monsterous problem. Congress has kept it's head in the sand on drugs and immmigration long long enough. If we spent what we have in Iraq ... Oh well. Nationalize Mexico.

TownhallPlus.com
Don Jones

Solutions
Step 1: Recall ALL soldiers stationed overseas. This includes Iraq, Afghanistan, South Korea and Germany.

Step 2: Position all these recalled soldiers across the southern US border with shoot to kill orders on anyone that fails to respond to orders to turn back.

Step 3: Take the logistics savings (tune of $150 billion) from bringing all these soldiers back and build a 15 foot thick concrete wall across the entire US-Mexico border with reinforced guard towers every 200 yards (100 yard firing arc for guards, highly reliable with a small arm M-16).

Step 4: Initiate an immigration policy in-line with nations like New Zealand or Singapore. Basically, we only import labor that is deemed in short supply in the USA. They do not import unskilled or uneducated foreign nationals in those nations and it is unsurprising that neither of them have the same degree of welfare pervasiveness that we do.

There, I've offered the solution. I've found ways to pay for the entire thing as well without raising taxes a penny (and long-term lowering taxes), now tell me I'm just whining.

reply to: Justin
Excellent post!

We really have a farcical non-enforcement policy going on vis-a-vis ILLEGAL aliens which contributes to SO MANY PROBLEMS, including the drug problem-- the same security we SHOULD have at the border would also dissuade the drug cartel.

I will follow immediately with a post about the Conspiracy Of Evil, which details WHY we do not truly secure the border. There are simply a number of special and linmited interests making $ off of the ILLEGALS, but the price to society and the economy all-in is dreadful.

The Tacit Conspiracy of Evil


The biggest challenge to stopping ILLEGAL aliens is that the money and organization (hence power) is mainly on the pro-ILLEGAL side. The pro-ILLEGAL forces include an unlikely, strange bedfellow alliance between groups which want to USE them in different ways--> the Conspiracy Of Evil.

Miscreant employers obviously simply want to exploit their labor-- never mind the myriad, egregious socio-economic problems they foist on America... hence, their all-in costs to society are immense and snowballing. Furthermore, the "savings" to miscreant employers are pocketed by them --> your hotel room or head of lettuce is NO cheaper to YOU.

The PC left wants to get ILLEGALS voting and seize permanent control for leftist "elites" via yet more inexorable big entitlement government... power flows to statist 'Crats/the left when YOUR tax $ flows to Washington. Try to find a liberal who does not really favor scamnesty, while feigning talk about enforcement first.

The scandal-plagued Catholic Church needs replacement bodies for the pews; and ILLEGALS can put more in the collection plates in America than in Mexico... the Church still has mega-millions to pay out for priest perversion (after deciding to forgive each priest one act of perversion-- Jesus!):

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jul/15/local/me-priests15

Ethnocentric Hispanic groups really do want an effective Reconquista, so they hide behind claims of racism and pleas for PC multiculturalism and one world, NWO kumbaya.

http://www.illegalaliens.us/aztlan.htm
http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/mexico_immigration/2007/09 /28/36496.html?s=al&promo_code=3A98-1
http://www.libertygunrights.com/NAUFactSheet.pdf

Finally, the remote elites, including the liberal MSM, do not see what all the fuss is about. Besides, they LIKE their cheap ILLEGAL maids and yard-workers, and THEIR children will not have to go to schools enervated by "those people."

a recent post here about...

...how Mexicans view their ILLEGAL incursion into America, which is aided and abetted by open border NAU quislings Presidente Jorge Bush, Amnesty John McCain and the Chamber lobbies-- and of course by the big entitlement government voter-seeking left like the ObaMessiah:

(slight editing below for clarity)

**********************************************
(post from a Mexifornia resident)

My Take--

I have many Hispanic friends, and I speak enough Spanish to understand practically all of what I hear. This is what I have found--

Mexicans truly believe that California and much of the U.S. western states were wrongly taken from Mexico. This is THEIR land-- their ancestors were here first, and some can trace their ancestry back to before their land was taken away. Hence, the Reconquista (re-taking, or re-conquering) agenda.

Mexican ILLEGALS truly believe that the U.S. liberals stupidly passed the laws that give them all the freebies: free health care, zero will to enforce immigration laws (cannot ask a Hispanic person for immigration status), and others... and all those laws are there for them. If not for them, then why were they passed?!

The also know that their rate of having children is far greater than that of Anglos. They understand that it is only a matter of time before they become the majority of the voting populace because they are willing to have children/nino's.
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