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Tuesday, April 15, 2008
George Will :: Townhall.com Columnist
Barack Obama's Bitter Liberalism
by George Will
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WASHINGTON -- Barack Obama may be exactly what his supporters suppose him to be. Not, however, for reasons most Americans will celebrate.

Obama may be the fulfillment of modern liberalism. Explaining why many working class voters are "bitter," he said they "cling" to guns, religion and "antipathy to people who aren't like them" because of "frustrations." His implication was that their primitivism, superstition and bigotry are balm for resentments they feel because of America's grinding injustice.

By so speaking, Obama does fulfill liberalism's transformation since Franklin Roosevelt. What had been under FDR a celebration of America and the values of its working people has become a doctrine of condescension toward those people and the supposedly coarse and vulgar country that pleases them.

When a supporter told Adlai Stevenson, the losing Democratic presidential nominee in 1952 and 1956, that thinking people supported him, Stevenson said, "Yes, but I need to win a majority." When another supporter told Stevenson, "You educated the people through your campaign," Stevenson replied, "But a lot of people flunked the course." Michael Barone, in "Our Country: The Shaping of America From Roosevelt to Reagan," wrote: "It is unthinkable that Roosevelt would ever have said those things or that such thoughts ever would have crossed his mind." Barone added: "Stevenson was the first leading Democratic politician to become a critic rather than a celebrator of middle-class American culture -- the prototype of the liberal Democrat who would judge ordinary Americans by an abstract standard and find them wanting."

Stevenson, like Obama, energized young, educated professionals for whom, Barone wrote, "what was attractive was not his platform but his attitude." They sought from Stevenson "not so much changes in public policy as validation of their own cultural stance." They especially rejected "American exceptionalism, the notion that the United States was specially good and decent," rather than -- in Michelle Obama's words -- "just downright mean."

The emblematic book of the new liberalism was "The Affluent Society" by Harvard economist John Kenneth Galbraith. He argued that the power of advertising to manipulate the bovine public is so powerful that the law of supply and demand has been vitiated. Manufacturers can manufacture in the American herd whatever demand the manufacturers want to supply. Because the manipulable masses are easily given a "false consciousness" (another category, like religion as the "opiate" of the suffering masses, that liberalism appropriated from Marxism), four things follow:

First, the consent of the governed, when their behavior is governed by their false consciousnesses, is unimportant. Second, the public requires the supervision of a progressive elite which, somehow emancipated from false consciousness, can engineer true consciousness. Third, because consciousness is a reflection of social conditions, true consciousness is engineered by progressive social reforms. Fourth, because people in the grip of false consciousness cannot be expected to demand or even consent to such reforms, those reforms usually must be imposed, for example, by judicial fiats.

The iconic public intellectual of liberal condescension was Columbia University historian Richard Hofstadter, who died in 1970 but whose spirit still permeated that school when Obama matriculated there in 1981. Hofstadter pioneered the rhetorical tactic that Obama has revived with his diagnosis of working-class Democrats as victims -- the indispensable category in liberal theory. The tactic is to dismiss rather than refute those with whom you disagree.

Obama's dismissal is: Americans, especially working-class conservatives, are unable, because of their false consciousness, to deconstruct their social context and embrace the liberal program. Today that program is to elect Obama, thereby making his wife at long last proud of America.

Hofstadter dismissed conservatives as victims of character flaws and psychological disorders -- a "paranoid style" of politics rooted in "status anxiety," etc. Conservatism rose on a tide of votes cast by people irritated by the liberalism of condescension.

Obama voiced such liberalism with his "bitterness" remarks to an audience of affluent San Franciscans. Perfect.

When Democrats convened in San Francisco in 1984, en route to losing 49 states, Jeane Kirkpatrick -- a former FDR Democrat then serving in the Cabinet of another such, Ronald Reagan -- said "San Francisco Democrats" are people who "blame America first." Today, they blame Americans for America being "downright mean."

Obama's apology for his embittering sociology of "bitterness" -- "I didn't say it as well as I could have" -- occurred in Muncie, Ind. Perfect.

In 1929 and 1937 Robert and Helen Lynd published two seminal books of American sociology. They were sympathetic studies of a medium-sized manufacturing city they called "Middletown," coping -- reasonably successfully, optimistically and harmoniously -- with life's vicissitudes. "Middletown" was in fact Muncie, Ind.

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About The Author
George F. Will is a 1976 Pulitzer Prize winner whose columns are syndicated in more than 400 magazines and newspapers worldwide.
 
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Let's see
I've got my Bible, got my gun, sound of chamber being cleared, ya, its loaded and, I am bitter because my neighbor just had a new plasma screen delivered, those people that don't look like me better watch out cause, I live in flyover country.

Elitists
I feel sorry for Obama and all others that obviously feel "elite."

I'm an educated man with a good professional career. The only person I strive to be better than, or even have the audacity to look down upon, is myself yesterday.

excellent
analysis. The Left will never see the connection, appreciate the irony, or understand us "fly-overs."

Profblog
More than that, they don't want to. Always, they want us "fly-overs" to be tolerant of their positions and be "open-minded." I always tell liberals that I'm open-minded, but that doesn't mean I'm as gulliable as they.

So far, Barack Obama has demonstrated his abject bigotry, both racial and, now, geographical. It just keeps getting better and better. The real story, in my opinion, is how and why his supporters in the media continue to ignore and play down that bigotry.

Liberalism in one paragraph
"........First, the consent of the governed, when their behavior is governed by their false consciousnesses, is unimportant. Second, the public requires the supervision of a progressive elite which, somehow emancipated from false consciousness, can engineer true consciousness. Third, because consciousness is a reflection of social conditions, true consciousness is engineered by progressive social reforms. Fourth, because people in the grip of false consciousness cannot be expected to demand or even consent to such reforms, those reforms usually must be imposed, for example, by judicial fiats......"

Direct hit.

Well, they have a point...
...look what the "masses" consume on TV every night. Those shows aren't making money because they are "art."

For Big Daddy
Look what gobble up on NPR every day. It's not exactly truth.

White American Yankees died for blacks.
It keeps going back to black and white, with the black leaders never ending pot stirring. In Obama's case he trys to say it but couch it in skillful verbalization. This time he got caught.
Great article George.
Don Jones
MyManJohn.com


Correction:
I omitted the word "elites" in the above post.

Stupid people; stupid voters
I guess every column today is going to be centered on O’Vomit’s words about PA country people. To him they are bitter gun totin’ hicks similar to the Clampetts without the money. One wonders how he expects to win the State then. Oh, I guess like the lames win every State, he will take the cities while Hillary takes the rest of the State and they will see the proverbial “undecideds” in the suburbs.

To all of you liberals posting here today, take note on what the Dems say in private. They mouth platitudes about the “working man” and the great unwashed commoners of the country but in private they have nothing but utter distain for them. While it is true that most of the people are truly stupid, after all how could Bill Clinton be elected twice and Lavern and Shirley be a top rated show for years? But I digress; even though people are stupid they don’t like being told so.

Columbia Has "Progressed" Since!
I went to Columbia, and the spirit of "progressivism" has advanced to defending "alternative cultural practices" such as honor killings of Saudi non-virgins or Indian widows. Any polite question that hinted at disagreement could cause a professor to fume about "being harassed in his own classroom" (I actually observed this once).

Some classes just consisted of professors preaching about white hegemony and American imperialism. In my anthropology classes, our readings were mostly by Derrida, Foucault, Said, and other writers who loved to either pick and choose anectodal evidence, or deny the usefulness of evidence altogether, and declare all arguments and ideas merely a "cultural construct." (This was a convenient tool when professors needed to make up even scientific facts concerning genetics to support arguments in their "scholarly" works. See Nadia Abu El-Haj).

The sad part is, most students appeared to agree with these bullies, as it was certainly the trendy thing to do. I heard dissent so extraordinarily rarely, which I attribute either to groupthink or a widespread fear of upsetting people who possess (ironically for those who talk a lot about disempowerment) extraordinary power over your grade (I am certainly guilty of writing things I didn't believe in).

To be fair, there was some room for disagreement. While some believed that Red State Americans were evil for supporting war and tax cuts, others believed that Red State soldiers were themselves victims (not heroes), exploited and manipulated by evil beaureucrats.

My husband and I laugh every time Columbia wastes postage by sending us donation requests.

For the esteemed...
Mr Obama,

Yes. I live in a small town... and YES, I trust the 1st and 2nd Amendments more than you or your liberal ideology....

Bitter? No. Not at all. I consider myself blessed... remember, the Bible tells us to be content. Woops, that's not "red letters" so you probably don't believe it.

How about your wife or Rev Wright or your 100's of fellow church members... Are they bitter and distrustful of those who don't believe and look like them?

Do you really mean it Vic?

It is hardly accurate to claim that Clinton was elected by "the people" when only 4.3 out of every 10 voters pulled the lever for Der Slickmeister.

In 1992, Clinton only got 43% of the vote. Bubba won by default because Ross Perot siphoned off 19% of the total vote count. Those who voted for Perot would have cast their ballot for George Bush had Perot not been in the race. This would have given Bush a solid win with 55% of the vote.

Most people are NOT truly stupid.

I too used to think that "most of the people are truly stupid" until I read a conservative publication's interview with Ronald Reagan in which he said (paraphrasing):

"If I am a great communicator it is because I believe that most people will make the right decision most of the time. My opponents have contempt for the average American and think that average people should not be allowed to make decisions for themselves. But I believe in the average American and have faith in their ability -- collectively -- to conduct their lives without having to be constrained and treated like undisciplined children."

Liberal Democrats hold the average person in contempt. Conservatives of all flavors have faith in the American people.

Fighting Lunacy
43% voted for Klinton who was a liberal and 19% voted for Perot who was a liberal. That is 62% of the voters. Of course this was also one of those cases where the people had to vote for a liberal because Bush I was also a liberal.

Just like now.

What really scares me
The thing that really has me so worried is that even now that we have at the least Fox News Channel, the liberals (neo-socialist) use that same tactic on a news channel! They demonize the station so that the average person (the ones that get their news from one of the big 3 or CNN) come into the watching of Fox with conceptions that have been formed by those that don't like what Fox does. It has taken a long time but the statement by Kruschev all those years ago rings so very true today. When he said that "we (socialist/communist) will take America and never fire a shot" Obama or Hillary take your pick, one is just as dangerous to America as the other. The only difference is that the White Voters may just put a sure 'nuf racist in office and they don't see it. Ignorance is one of the things that Charles Dickens said to beware of. Ignoring that Obama is "truly" a bigot, will probably give him the power over

cut me off....
....those that he despises.

cut me off....
those that he despises.

What really scares me........
The thing that really has me so worried is that even now that we have at the least Fow News Channel, the liberals (neo-socialist) use that same tactic on a news channel! They demonize the station so that the average person (the ones that get their news from one of the big 3 or CNN) come into the wactching of Fox with conceptions that have been formed by those that don't like what Fox does. It has taken a long time but the statement by Kruchev all those years ago rings so very true today. When he said that "we (socialist/communist) will take America and never fire a shot" Obama or Hillary take your pick, one is just as dangerous to America as the other. The only differance is that the White Votters may just put a sure 'nuf racist in office and they don't see it. Ignorance is one of the things that Charles Dickens said to beware of. Ignoring that Obama is "truly" a bigot, will probably give him the power over those that he despises.

The problem for me is
The left wants to force me to do what they think is right because they pity my stupidity and lack of higher learning that would clearly explain why I am so stupid if only I would listen. Conservatives want me to vote for people who want to hit me on the head with their version of God and can't understand why a theocracy doesn't appeal to me. Both sides have it wrong.
The problem is that people have become so afraid that the other side will win that they can't find the heart to vote for what I believe is truly the majority in America; Libertarians (the original progressives)
If God and his word gives us the choice to be good (as opposed to FORCING us to be good aka Sharia Law), then why does it seem to behoove political fanatics on both sides of the aisle to make me see the light via legislating my freedom away?

somewhere twist elitism and mobrule
Quite a number of Democrat Party primary voters, and especially leaders of the interest groups that support the party(NEA and other public employee unions, various "civil rights" groups), share this bitter liberalism mindset with Obama.

That being the case, it will be difficult for the Obama campaign to disguise or mask the contempt within many of his supporters for the values of small-town America.

I do think that while many liberal Democrats embody this elitist condescension toward middle America, some in the Republican party are not immune from it either. For instance, the attitude of both John McCain and G.W. Bush in promoting their amnesty plan. In fact Bush termed opponents of the plan, "bigots".

But, liberal dems are worse. That is for sure.

On the general issue of the benefits of "democracy", "free will of the people", "capitalism", and other items, a few quotes:

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others". Winston Churchill.

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." Winston Churchill (I like that one)

Nancy Astor to Winston Churchill:
"Sir, if you were my husband, I would give you poison."
Winston, in reply:
"And if I were your husband, Madam, I would take it."

"Inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." Winston Churchill

"The effect of liberty on individuals is they may do what they please; we ought to see what it pleases them to do, before we risk congratulations." Edmund Burke.

Boutte
You're right about giving women the right to vote. Ever since, we have been on the fast track to socialism. But that's small potatoes compared to electing one as President.

McCain isn't much, but he sure beats the competition. Kind of like Obamessiah growing up surrounded by stupid people.

We should be frightened
Thanks for the read. It helps me get into the mind of liberals. I lived in a university town where I had to interface with people who "knew they were the true voice on all subjects and everyone else was wrong." It should have dawned on me that there is a core issue.
I now see that, thanks to you.

If I were to exist in some kind of "ivory tower of perfection," then all other views could be dismissed as uneducated or plebian. It explains the core reason for welfare as being, "If we didn't have welfare, we would have anarchy." Or an opinion that President Carter was the last really great president.

It explains how intelligent people can spiral down into unbelievable ignorance through a complete lack of common sense. Once there they become hopelessly mired, supported by the mutual ignorance of associates with a like, flawed mentality. It should have dawned on me that there had to be a foundation for this.

It is what is being termed as "elitist." A better term would be a "political snob." It is like a rich snob who does not understand, or care about, working class people. Anything about them is dismissed because their opinion is inconsequential. They are not educated in things that matter, therefore any opinion they have must be beneath their consideration.

I see how this preserves their belief in any position.

This makes Obama a really frightening dude.

This is a person who will say ANYTHING to gain power because with power, he can correct what he believes are wrongs. The problem is that many of the problems are not problems and real problems have flawed solutions.

If successful, this could cause our country to become a second class nation.

This is the scenario held by the Chinese and Japanese business people I worked with. They have seen this coming for about 20 years. They don't see anything to change that and I don't either.

If you live in middle America
the next time you get depressed and go to church count all the gun racks in the parking lot.

We should be frightened
Thanks for the read. It helps me get into the mind of liberals. I lived in a university town where I had to interface with people who "knew they were the true voice on all subjects and everyone else was wrong." It should have dawned on me that there is a core issue.
I now see that, thanks to you.

If I were to exist in some kind of "ivory tower of perfection," then all other views could be dismissed as uneducated or plebian. It explains the core reason for welfare as being, "If we didn't have welfare, we would have anarchy." Or an opinion that President Carter was the last really good president.

It explains how intelligent people can spirial down into unbelievable ignorance through a complete lack of common sense. Once there they become hopelessly mired, supported by the mutual ignorance of associates with a like, flawed mentality. It should have dawned on me that there had to be a foundation for this.

It is what is being termed as "elitist." A better term would be a "political snob." It is like a rich snob who does not understand, or care about, working class people. Anyting about them is dismissed because their opinion is inconsequential. They are not educated in things that matter, therefore any opinion they have must be beneath their consideration.

I see how this preserves their belief in any position.

This makes Obama a really frightening dude.

This is a person who will say ANYTHING to gain power because with power, he can correct what he believes are wrongs. The problem is that many of the problems are not problems and real problems have flawed solutions.

If successful, this could cause our country to become a second class nation.

This is the scenerio of the Chinese and Japanese business people I have worked with. They have seen this coming for about 20 years. They don't see anything to change that and I don't either.

Reasons for Recession & Frustration
The reasons for the Rust Belt frustration do in a sense come from the hammer and anvil pincer attack policies of both the Republican and Democratic Parties. The Democrats impose rules, regulations, taxes and restrictions that virtually force wealthy business owners to invest overseas. Under the ruse and guise of protecting the workers, the liberals and business-hating marxist impose so many rules, documents and cost of maintaining an employee, that businesses are repeatedly shaken down or outright fined with due process of law or jury of their peers. The Constitution means nothing to a liberal. This is from an ex-union steward and safety man who saw the shake down tactics of OSHA.
The Republicans in turn foist free trade on our republic. They full well know American factories can not compete with the wages, mandates, environmental restrictions and employer- paid social welfare cost that American workers receive. UnDaunted by reality , they call us the most competitive workers etc, etc. But they are agents for the plutocrats who are stock holders or owners in third world factories.

Thank you Dr Sowell
The following is quite terrifying because their ego is connected to their viewpoint and this group will "lose it" and be vengeful if they are defeated.

"First, the consent of the governed, when their behavior is governed by their false consciousnesses, is unimportant. Second, the public requires the supervision of a progressive elite which, somehow emancipated from false consciousness, can engineer true consciousness. Third, because consciousness is a reflection of social conditions, true consciousness is engineered by progressive social reforms. Fourth, because people in the grip of false consciousness cannot be expected to demand or even consent to such reforms, those reforms usually must be imposed, for example, by judicial fiats."

George Will

Mr Will - you did a great job.

George Will
I don't often agree with Will, but on this one he hits the nail on the head. Probably the most concise description of the Leftist mindset, especially as it relates to the current election season, I've ever read.


Long live the proletariat.
The false consciousness of the governed can only be rescued by an enlightened elite.

Where have I heard that before?

Oh, yes, the unenlightened proletariat, the masses, must also be rescued by a group of elites, to destroy its false bourgeoise consciousness, and replace it with the correct socialist consciousness...this group of elites was called the "vanguard of the proletariat".

Small town America, clinging to its guns and religion, is the proletariat....and as Obama and other elites will educate them as to their proper consciousness, so too did the "vanguard" do with my good friends, the great unwashed masses of the proletariat.

Lenin and Marx may be dead, but a few of their nutty ideas still resonate.

Most leftists in the Democrat party are not communists. I do NOT make that claim. But many do see the world in a manner similar to Marx and Lenin..

Any belief
that "My group is better that any other group" is elitist.
Bigotry is a form of elitism.

The spots never change and Obamas' are showing through the wite-wash.

Wow! I read the whole article ...
and not once did I need to refer to a dictionary for help! Either I'm getting smarter or Mr. Will is getting better at using ordinary words that I can understand.

As to the content: love it. Couldn't agree more. The more Obama speaks his mind rather than the pre-scripted stuff his managers have prepared for him, the more he reveals himself the elitist jerk that populates the democrat party.

Boutte
Cheap shot at women, but otherwise spot on. One other thing you didn't mention, though. The ballot box is a fraud and the election "process" is nothing but a circus to distract Americans who are embittered that their Constitutional rights have been usurped.

good democrats
Are extinct,those such as Sam Nunn,Scoop Jackson and Moynihan.They could be counted on most of the time to do what was best for the country.Liberalism has ruined the democrat party,and it keeps getting worse.People that always voted for the dems still have not come to their senses.

Dems and working class
"take note on what the Dems say in private. They mouth platitudes about the “working man” and the great unwashed commoners of the country but in private they have nothing but utter distain for them"

That is why they all have secret service/body guards to keep the Unwashed Masses and Idiots and Working Man away from them while they campaign. They do not care about the working man, they only care about POWER! They want to be in the history books. That is all they care about. If they REALLY cared, they would LOWER ALL TAXES and get rid of the tax on gas. And they would stop flying around in private jets, living in huge mansions, and telling us to cut back!!!!!

Liberalism has ruined the democrat party
Liberalism has ruined the democrat party,and it keeps getting worse.

And now they want to RUIN the rest of the USA!

LIBERALS AND SOCIALISTS

.....What Liberals and Socialists have in common is that they are both elitists who put themselves above the commom man ...their attitude is that they know best and should lead the herd ...

.....The Founding Fathers were Liberal Elitists ...the Democrat Party are Socialist Elitists ...there are no true Liberals in the Democrat Party ...Liberalism stands for freedom ...Socialism stand for Statism ...

.....Words have meanings but the meaning has been twisted to mean the opposite of the original ...our government has become the Ministry of Truth ...WAR IS PEACE .....COLOSSUS

Kidder
"The only person I strive to be better than, or even have the audacity to look down upon, is myself yesterday."

Wow kidder! Very quotable! :)


Pitiful
The thing that made me laugh was the stunned look on Obamas face days after he made the statement. He still doesn't understand why people are upset. He really doesn't get it. He is so sated with elitism he can't see around it.

George Will is a Ph.D.
I once counted the number of Ph.Ds that work for the American Enterprise Institute and for the Heritage Foundation. Off the top of my head I remember 64 Ph.Ds at Heritage and a substantial number also at AEI.

For longer than I can remember the GOP has been dissing intellectuals in general, but most pointedly saying that Democrats/Liberals are out of touch, pointy headed intellectuals. An article by Midge Decter comes to mind.

What the GOP is actually saying,however - though I think they really don't want to get into this too much - is that "our intellectuals speak the truth while your intellectuals speak trash."

Now, if that isn't elitism, what is?

New Obama Parody
my blog!

The REAL America
My wife and I recently returned from an 18-month tour of America in a motor coach, most of the time in "fly-over" country. What we found was a big, beautiful country filled with a lot of very fine, hard working -- and intelligent -- people, a far cry from what we see portrayed in the media.

If there is any false consciousness in America, it's not among the working people of Pennsylvania or any of the other 49 states. False consciousness is the exclusive province of leftist intellectuals hiding in a small fantasy world of their own creation.

They need to get out of their elitist cubbyholes and, as Gandhi did in India, go out and find the REAL America. It's very much worth the effort.

Say wot....??
How in hell does obqama know what everybody's thinking...???

Proud Liberal
The Left hasn't had one new idea in almost 60 years. The Left has thousands of people with PHDs, and to what avail? Obama's elitism isn't confined to the Democrats; The GOP has an old eltist streak going back to Roosevelt and before that the Boston Brahmins. All of this elitism goes against the older philosophy of the Founders, which was libertairan, Federalist, and conservative.

The Elites of our society have always been liberals; they just cannot seem to fight the temptation the re-ordering of society through anti-democratic means. That is, they cannot mind thier own business.

Will
George:

I am frightened because people who want to protect me -- like Mr. Obama -- will destroy me. I live in California where state and federal income taxes will reach 64% and no one will be able to afford to live here.

I will stop working Mr. Obama and live off Social Security and my IRA before I will allow you to confiscate everything I own.

The bitter people in fly-over country will be more bitter when every employer shuts down and they have no jobs. You cannot tax yourself into prosperity.

If anyone has a job it did not come from a poor person it came from someone willing to take the risk to start a business for the purpose of making a profit. If the risk is not worth the effort it will not be taken.

Everyone cannot be employed by the government.




Change
A good movie to watch, start to finish,about change is Dr. Zhivago.

Enjoy.

Mr. Will
There is an old saying;"Don't make perfect the enemy of Good".Your article doesn't give America much credit as a "Thinking" nation.Any group, that "SITS STILL", as the WORLD moves and considers their "Reality" real, is delusional at best.America is not real,Franklin and the others started America as an experiment,an it remains as much.The only "Facts" are those supportable by evidence.People of difference Interest can reside together.War is not a constant in Human endeavors.The people do have a "Right" to "Self-Determination".The government has certain obligations to the PEOPLE.These and "Millions" of others, are on our laboratory Query sheets.Liberalism is what made America a non-Isolationist nation.A position which was "Bitter" to change but had to be.What "US" are today, is not an affirmation of anything final.With that being said,"SITTING STILL" becomes "Oxy-moronic"...

Boutte
See what giving women the vote does to serious politics?

***

You sound like a bitter and shriveled pea. The
Roosevelts deux and Lincoln have done more for
this country and the world then you can even
imagine.

And what have women got to do with it. Tell me,
was the world a better place before women got
the vote.


Frank
"that even now that we have at the least Fow News Channel, the liberals (neo-socialist) use that same tactic on a news channel!

***

Are you admitting here that Fox News Channel is
not a news channel, but a commentator channel
with a serious rightist bent? What about fair
and balanced?

Wayfinder, Profblog, etc.
The TRUTH may set you free, but it doesn't
necessarily get you elected.

More's the pity.

History Lesson - Fighting Lunacy correct
In the first Dessert Storm, the U.S. military accomplished its assigned mission quickly. Gen. Swartzkof was prepared to extend the mission by eliminating Saddam.

Saddam was so concerned that he was seeking, but not finding, asylym anywhere in the world. Almost everyone favored the extendeed mission. Prez Bush suddenly declared the "war won" and would not approve the extension (his approval rating was extremely high until he gave Saddam a "pass").

Gen. S apologized for his exuberance and retired. The elder Bush failed to act on an opportunity, and his rating plummeted. America's allies were disappointed!

Along came Perot! I was one of those who voted "Ross for Boss"! Look what we got!

Dantana
"because people in the grip of false consciousness cannot be expected to demand or even consent to such reforms, those reforms usually must be imposed, for example, by judicial fiats......"

***

Sorry, but we are voting in these reforms. I guess that is an imposition on YOU, in the
singular. Too bad about that.

Democrats are convinced
Some associates that I work with who state they are democrats and always will be, because the democrats represent the working man. Really. I think OBlame a is a typical democrat, he hates the unsophisticated rubes that vote for him, but he needs them, so in public he panders to his audience and then gripes that what he says is a sound byte taken out of context. For the guy who is supposedly so well spoken and eloquent, I'm not impressed. He keeps stepping on his own schwanz, and then it is time to throw out the race card. Just remember, us white folks ain't allowed to be dissin homey, cause we be racist. It's funny how black hatred is ok, but when taken to task by a white guy suddenly it is a hate crime. What a joke this guy is.

Our PhDs and your PhDs
Hey Proud Lunatic, want to know the difference between our PhDs and your PhDs?

Our PhDs graduate from college with their degrees than go out into the world, get real jobs, and actually do something contructive to better the world.

Your PhDs graduate from college, then spend the next 30 years staying at that college complaining about how other people are bettering the world in tenured professorships, never once doing anything constructive for the world.

Left wing PhDs are the absolute proof of the adage "Those that can do. Those that can't teach." The best example of that lies in the economics departments of universities nationwide. In our universities, around 95% of the economics professors are self-proclaimed Marxists. That is they believe in an economic theory that hasn't, in 3000 years of trying, been anything other than a monumental disaster.

Those are YOUR PhDs.

OUR PhDs are sitting on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange earning a 7-digit salary.

Great read
A little early to stretch the brain with George's writings but spot on.

Thanks to all who added clarity to the issue. This has started my day well.

After years of trying to understand the left I default to the opinion that they are under the control of the Great Deceiver. Don't know how else to explain it.

will is writing about elitism?
about time he wrote about something he knows.

JPK
I believe that Will mentions Hoffstader. At the beginning of one of Hoffstader's books he makes the case that the Founders were elitist (not Hoffstader's word), in the sense that they were very concerned that the masses of man not be able to seize control of the reins of government. The Founders feared that the masses, as debtors, would pass legislation that was detrimental to creditors. Hoffstader gives a number of quotes from eminent Founders concerning their view of the masses.

Also, conservatives until the time of Reagan were extremely elitist. Russell Kirk, sometime in the 1960s when the masses were now entering universities in great number, quit his job at Michigan State in protest over the number of common people entering university. George Nash has an interesting section on the reaction of conservatives in the 1960s to the masses. I could go on at some length about the core of elitism in conservatism, which is now deliberately hidden BY THE CONSERVATIVE ELITE through skillful propaganda directed toward the middle and working class.

The joke's on you...
The upper echelon in both parties is fully cognizant of the limitations of small town...red-state...working class Americans. The difference is Democrats are less artful at hiding their justifiably harsh appraisal. The genius of the GOP high command was in deftly fostering and harnessing the "bitterness" by exploiting wedge issues.

Do any of the liberal-bashers in this thread truly believe the Andover-Yale legacy in the White House holds the little people in high regard for anything other than their usefulness in furthering his power? Sadly, I'm sure the answer is yes.

As long as 51 percent of us can be so easily distracted by bright, shiny objects (wedge isues), the nation will lack the tools needed to build and sustain a healthy democracy.



Beckie
Yes, there are kooks everywhere, but honestly-- you're on an unabashedly conservative website and have you seen any theocracy movement get traction? The closest thing we've probably have had to it in this country is Mike Huckabee, and one just needs to read the responses to one of Chuck Norris' columns re: Mike to witness how most true conservatives view him.

Zalma
You are so right - except for one small point!

There are two groups of people who can always afford to live in your state of California. Welfare scroungers and illegal aliens. Both groups are housed, fed, schooled, and medically treated via the purses of working citizens (same in every state).

Force welfare sponges to work, sent illegals packing, and see what happens to taxes!

Zalma - con't
Keep the welfare sponges, support open borders, allow the numbers of both groups to grow, and you KNOW what will happen to your taxes.

We should be grateful to liberals!
Could this be the reason why left-wing governments always believe government is the answer to all issues? Don't communists, fascists, socialists and monarchies think that they know better than the huddled masses what is best for them?

Stalin, Hitler, Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, Hussein, Henry VIII et al all sprinkled their infinite wisdom on us from their endless supply of arrogance. All power originated and ended with them because they were so much more intelligent than were their 'subjects' (not citizens).

Doesn't that same attitude permeate today's Democratic Party and many Republicans too? Didn't Hillary just say that what we need is "a commander and chief of the economy?"

Perry White & Pathetic Liberal
Liberals/Democraps the ones who claim to be open minded are the most narrowminded self interested individuals that I have ever encountered. When taken to task about things like the individuals responsibility to be a part of and a contributor to this country it is the typical shout back of bigot, racist, add the slur. I'm told the government has an obligation to intervene on behalf of the children whose worthless parents have zero interest in improving the lives of their own children. More over the child is nothing more than a check to them, that the government owes. Just in case you were not aware, "We the people" are the government, it is tax dollars that we contribute. Right now 50% of the country pays 97% of the taxes the other 50% pays 3%. I'd like to see which ethnic groups contribute the most. I'd like to see whether it is republicans or democrats who consistenly give more to charity, although, we already know the answer to that question. Why is that libs never lead by example? Why don't you guys just find some crack addict, homeless guy, some single mom living on welfare, and just give half of what you have to them? No strings attached, lets see how well that money is invested. While you rail and whine about America, why can't you put your money where your mouth is?

Elitists make me yearn for a Mao
You know that Mao got so sick of intellectuals that he sent them all to the country to pitch hay so he could get some things done. Imagine what we could do without all these squabbling lawyers and bossy environmentalists, even though Mao's cultural revolution turne into a disaster.
I am a PhD and do not agree with the relativist parse that claiming one group of PhD's is better than another is elitism. It is just the kind of claim I see liberals make all of the time. Take all of the savor out of the salt and then say it could just be sand. Bogus relativism.

of course there is bitterness
I am wondering why "bitterness" is such an insult. In my sister's very small Ohio town (5000) all major employers except Walmart, the funeral homes, and the hospital and left for foreign shores or closed down. There is no longer a business tax-base. The folks left have little, social programs have been cut to nothing, because, you know, they have to be responsible for themselves rather than rely on big government. As a result, marijuana farms and meth labs have become the norm, the sheriff has said the felonies have risen in the past few years from 40 per year to 400, at the same time that law enforcement must be cut, most of the middle-class has left leaving only professionals that staff the regional hospital, some teachers, and those who have jobs or funds to leave. Republican leadership has done this. Bitterness is not a slur, it's an acknowledgment that government HAS screwed them, but not because of being too big.





oblahma elitism
of course he doesn't understand america. He spent 20 years developing his black identity and is now assuring the liberal elites that in him they can find foregiveness for the past sins of slavery and segregation and that he will finally end the racial divide in america. plus his willingness to become jimmy carter 2 and his plans to talk to all tinpot dictators will again restore the world's love and admiration for america because america will fight no more wars. I guess I am waiting for the ads showing the oblahma walking on water, passing his hands over afflicted persons and healing them and by his presence alone guarantee world peace.

Re: liberal spawn
Interesting that you should take that particular choice in argument. I would assume you're suggesting that the employers left for foreign shores because of greed and Walmart right? Just a question might it be that the leftist regulation and restrictions on manufacturing, distribution and general business make off shore (which isn't so cheap it's worth moving without some other force pushing the work out the door)? I would submit that between confiscatory taxes and choking regulation that the left is now crying foul after having driven businesses from our country. What did you expect, businesses to run at a loss just so you can collect welfare?

Boutte
My world is turned upside down-I agreed with most of your first post- FDR was as you state - and allowing the airheads to vote has cast this nation on a downward spiral ever since....

Hard to Hide Liberalism
The first words are usually the truth. Obamination in his closed room with his cohorts was speaking the truth. Much like Obamination sitting in church for 20 years knows exactly what his pastor was preeching.

Condescension from Obamination reveals his true colors. This guy is bad news.

A dash of pepper for seasoning
The interesting part of conservative elitism is that it is hidden to today's audience.

Buckley and Kessler wrote a book on conservatism and in the introduction Kessler (or Kesler) acknowledged that conservatism was highly elitist prior to Reagan, who germinated a conservative populism. But the authors thereafter played down the elitism that undergirds present day conservatism.

In one article they skewer the idea that a limited group of actors can predict the future course of markets. Yet they offer up an analysis that is based on having faith that faith in markets will result in better outcomes. In essence (and you'd have to read the article) the critique they make of "command economies" applies equally to their theory, with the same resultant skepticism. But their attitude is that they, as elitists, are telling the "truth" to the rest of us.

The elistism of conservatives is that they are authoritarians and, so, believe that they know better than people who do not agree with their authoritarian seminal positions.

Virudh
you posted:And what have women got to do with it. Tell me,
was the world a better place before women got
the vote.

answer:YES

Obama the Marxist
It is time to describe Obama for what he is, a committed, doctrinaire Marxist. He is not a liberal in any traditional sense. He is a Marxist. End of story; end of Obama in American politics. We didn't fight the cold war against Soviet Marxism for nothing.

"blame America first."
Is what King George III did and look at what it got him. American's "recalled " him as King and established their own "sovereign" in a written Constitution. Those who misjudge the character of Americans tend to suffer consequences.

The "Natural Aristocracy"
The idea of a natural aristocracy, which is the subject of a couple of letters between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, was a widely accepted premise among conservatives for hundreds of years and, in fact, was THE defining characterization of a conservative.

The idea is that the smartest, most capable people ought to be leading the nation by occupying positions of social, economic and political power.

This belief is encompassed by the belief in a "constitutional republic." Scratch a conservative and you'll find someone who believes that we should have representatives who will use their superior knowledge and judgment on behalf of the people who elected them to congress.

Beneath this structural advisement is a belief that "the people" are ignorant, emotional, and should not be entrusted with advocating policy.

We see this today from conservatives who maintain that "the people" don't really understand Iraq and what is necessary to do in Iraq.

We see this from conservatives who believe that "the people" are continally misled by the MSM, and too stupid to know the difference.

The conservative attitude about "the people" is adamantly elitist.

The democratic party
The democratic party is replete with elites that think they know what's best for all of us. Both our presidential candidates on the democratic side cannot wait to "fix what's wrong with America". This is of course predicated on the notion that something is wrong in the first place. Their elitism is based on a false premise that because we are intellectual we can transcend the basic forces of nature, economics, etc. That a master hand can somehow "change" all that god and man have wrought.

The remainder of the democratic party is filled with people who's only goal is to perpetuate the democratic party. And toward that end, are willing to do or say anything that gets them elected.

So between the false principles of elitism and the corrupt principles of "pragmatism", the democratic party's decline is understandable.

If the republicans could get over their narrowmindedness, and embrace the middle a bit more, the democrats would continue to be pushed toward the looney coasts. This election, and how well John McCain does will be more of a test on how ready the Republicans are to be the party of the majority, than about all this nonsense by the Democrats.

The big racist dummy
is returning here to IL after his defeat. Returning to another "fly over" state that he calls home. I'm going to do everything in my power to get him out of that senate position. Maybe his elite friends over in LaLa land can give him a job. What kind of a job would be interesting to speculate.

"Natural Aristocracy" and elitism
My dear republican father once snapped at me for referring to someone as 'elitist'. "And what is wrong with being educated, intelligent, and well-read," he asked—"We should all aspire to be so." That was republicanism a la 1979. Today's right views education and science with suspicion. It views separation of church and state as humanist evil. This is definitely not my father's party.

MY TWO CENTS
The funniest aspect of this is the simple fact that Hillary Clinton has seized the opportunity to flash her street creds.

And all we have to do is watch and enjoy it. We don't have to fire up the 'Republican hate machine' or contact the 'vast right-wing conspiracy' of song and story, because they both pale in comparison to what these two clowns are doing to each other and to their party.

Perhaps some day the democrats will find some grown-ups for candidates, because we DO need a responsible second party.

LWN Square

Mount up and prepare to do battle!! Sir Harold the Laird of Scranton Manor, his faithful slightly deranged squire Wobbi, together with other knights of the square table;’Sir Boutte, Sir Dogg, etal are posting their inane and mindless drivel on the threads today. They will be accompanied by numerous Ladies-in-Waiting; Lilly, Kimberly, Sophie, etal. Victory will be ours if we are united in our efforts to destroy these trolls. May the Force be with you.

To the Trolls

Posting on these threads. Remember Freedom of Speech is a wonderful blessing. It is guaranteed by our Constitution and protected by the sacrifices of blood, sweat and tears by our brave men and women in our Armed Forces. If this is not obvious to you, I encourage you to go out to your nearest National Cemetery and count the headstones.
Your postings will be monitored by the LWN squad. I warn you, the members of the squad, especially the Ladies, have mastered the art of slicing and dicing. I f you want to depart with your backside intact, I suggest that you walk carefully or you’ll step on a land mine. Remember the Force is with the LWN.

Authoritarianism is "anti-market"
The bottom line is that there is a major flaw and contradiction in conservatism, which conservatives deal with by selectively choosing when to ignore the market and when to ignore elitism.

If we invest the governmance of our country in a small number of people that represent us in government and lead our biggest corporations that is investing, essentially, in a "command economy and politics" in the sense that we're according to them a wisdom which is superior to the masses or common men and women, i.e., the market.

Yet, out of the other side of their mouths, conservatives argue that real wisdom comes from the "process" in which ordinary people make millions and millions of decisions from self-interest, i.e., the market, from which comes the best possible outcomes.

I think that most conservatives do not understand the existence of this conflict and contradiction.


direct hit!
Thanks you George Will for your direct broadside of the liberal ship!
We can only hope it sinks!

Liberal Spawn
Liberal Spawn -
So it's the Republicans fault that businesses left little Town Ohio? The Republicans set up meth labs, and are growing marijuana. Now is it medical marijuana, or just the crap you smoke? Did raising the minimum wage help? The government is not responsible to create jobs. The private sector does that. Minimum wage hikes don't help the little guy, unless business holds the cost of goods sold at a static level, which businesses can not do if they want to stay in business. Sorry, no one goes into business to give someone else a job and benefits, unless you are the United States Liberal Government. What social programs were cut? Were these individuals seeking training, or just learning chemistry to set up their meth labs, and make a quick buck. Nice to see what an ungrateful spoiled brat you are, that your parents who worked hard to put food on the table and a roof over your head, you now reject their material ways, yet you own a computer and blog. I see that as being hypocritical. See one huge problem is liberals always want sympathy for the scum of society. You know the drug dealers, the pedophiles, the murderers, the rapist. It's never the individuals fault or responsibility it's the fault of society, or the government.

Pathetic - Proud Liberal
Dear Pathetic -
Your arguments about how elitist conservatives are is a running joke. If you believe that having a desire to be self reliant, surround yourself with like minded people, work hard, and enjoy the fruits of your labor, then I guess that definition fits for conservative elitism. You claim authoritarianims, based on what. What exactly is that conservatives are supposedly demanding of Americans that makes them authoritarian? It's the liberals who came up with hate-crime legislation, it's the liberals who claim we have to give more money to the downtrodden, but expect nothing in return from these people. For heaven sakes it's liberals who insist that we can't drug test welfare recipients. In order to get a job most people have to pass a drug test, why not to get a government check? It's the liberals who scream about human rights violations and then when action (military) is taken you scream that we are the bad guys. If having to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and rely on yourself are elitist in thinking, then I guess that I'm an elitist. If being responsible for your own actions is elitism, then I'm that guy. How pathetic. Before pointing the finger you should really look in the mirror.

Phil
I beg to differ. Open up a history book some
day. Oh, yes. Then read it.

Imam Obama
I do not consider Obama to be even an American.

He reeks of the overwhelming Muslim hate of our country.

The Democrats should have run Osama Bin Laden. At least we would not have to deal with the Obama Lies regarding the same hate America ideology.


No person is better than another!
I have watched Obama since the start of the election process and Obama to me has always come across as that he considers himself better than others of a lower financial position in life. That is why the middle class and the working class have been drawn to Hillary Clinton and not to Obama.

I have been around for some 61 years and I have learned at a very young age that even though some people have more money and live in a million dollar house, DOES NOT make them any better that I. We all came into this world with nothing and we all will leave this world with nothing.

I am just a person that during my life time I have served my country, worked hard, have the American dream (house ownership) and now being unemployed for the past 10 years due to having a bad back (which I cannot even get disability payment from our Social Security Administration), I myself DO NOT find Obama better than I and that is why I am planning on voting for Hillary Clinton, for she does reach and understand people like myself.

OBAMA NEEDS TO CHANGE HIS ALTITUDE THOSE OF US THAT ARE MIDDLE CLASS AND THE WORKING CLASS, FOR HE DOES CONSIDER HIMSELF AS AN "ELITIST"!

Pay attention....
to what the socialists (Barack & Hilary) are saying. Pay attention to their misspeaks especially because therein lies their true character. Socialism has left the creeping stage and now they are at a fast walk. We should not come to our senses when it is too late.

Vic
"While it is true that most of the people are truly stupid" .... was that a big oops!!!

***

Anyway, it does not matter what we think of the
great unwashed. It does matter how we treat them.

Beowulfe
Those are YOUR PhDs. ...OUR PhDs are sitting on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange earning a 7-digit salary.

****

Wow, am I impressed. We could also say that your
PhDs are the ones who are stealing the rest of us
blind. Who will do anything for yet another buck.

And our poor old teacher PhD's (everyone knows that teachers are useless), may not be making
a million but a good many of them make a darn
good livelihood. I know, because I have many
friends in that category.

Bumper stickers on my car:
Monica Lewinksi's ex-Boyfriends Wife for President

Hey Smokers! Keep Your Butt in Your car!

I'm Republican: Because Not EVERYONE Can Be On Welfare.

That last ones' for you Liberal Spawn. Just how bad can it be in a town of 5000? How many major employers did you or even can you have in a town that size? "Ooooh, the Piggly Wiggly closed down and we lost 20 jobs! Damn Republicans forced them to go offshore and hawk their wares in Haiti." Gimmee a break!

Thanks, George
I don't normally agree with you but you nailed these guys to a T. If they think my opinion is too dumb or false to respond and debate, then they don't get to paricipate. That's how America was founded. Originally they may have been elitist to get the premise of the nation established but the eventual education of the masses would bring the country closer to the ideal.

Today if there is a debate based on historical & current facts vs exposed demagogery (Clinton/dim tactics since '96) they lose. If you will meet in the middle you gain. Obama, Hi-liar-y, BJ, Harry, Teddy, Schmuky, Turbin, Al, Pelosi et al ad nauseum along with their cronies, MSM have been exposed. They side with "hate America" and the defeatists always attacking Bush. Well guess what? Bush isn't running and they will lose. Now we just have to get Congress.

America Prefers Freedom over Free Things
George Will offers, "Obama's dismissal is: Americans, especially working-class conservatives, are unable, because of their false consciousness, to deconstruct their social context and embrace the liberal program. Today that program is to elect Obama, thereby making his wife at long last proud of America."

Maybe. As I see it, Conservatives want to live the promise of America: Freedom, Safe and minimal Government intrusion. They cherish free-dom over free things.

Liberals, on the other hand, think Americans can be bought with free things. Borrowing from the Bard, Liberals project too much. Liberals say, "vote for me and I will give you free things, like schools, money, food stamps, healthcare, mortgage forgiveness .... you name it and I will give it to you. Just vote for me."

So, Liberals will never understand that Conservative middle-American attitute of self-determinatin, even amongst the poor, which says, no thank you, just leave us alone.

Liberals, like Obama, are nearly apoplectic over the incredulity of Americans that can not be bought. They do not understand that even poor middle-Americans know, intuitively, that for every free thing taken, a slice of freedom goes away. These people would rather eat a mile of dirt than to be subjects/experiments of Social institutions - free or not.

So, when middle-America says "no" to Liberals, they are not being bitter, they are just normal, Conservative, God fearing, self-determining, freedom loving, independent proud Americans. All they ask is for the Government to keep them safe, free and alone.

Roy: You're trying to redefine elitism
If I remember correctly most of your examples are about your fine character, and I accept your view that you have a fine character: pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, taking responsibility, etc.

The question before us, however, is whether the conservative discipline or theory is elitist from the sense of its attitude toward the common person, and the answer is that it is.

What conservatives attempt to do - to hide their elitism from themselves - is to divide "the people" into two groups, liberals and everybody else. Liberals, in the conservative lexicon, are today's "common man" today's "masses," which conservatives have denigrated forever. We are today's lazy and shiftless Negroes, today's money grubbing and Christ killing Jews.

The conservative strategy, you see, is that if it's "true" then it's ok to denigrate. If the masses were ignorant, unwashed and mean it was ok to denigrate them.

You should get hold of that Buckley Kesler anthology and read (I think) the very last chapter, when the author is rendering his verdict on the masses in the Bible and in Rome. It will scorch your ears.

The authoritarianism I referenced is exemplified by the split between Protestantism and Catholicism. With Catholicism individuals had an obligation to submit to the Catholic teachings; Protestantism changed that with an admonition that the individual should think for himself. Today's conservatism is Catholic in nature because most conservatives readily ingest the talking points enumerated by various conservative authorities, such as the Heritage Foundation, and obediently repeat them to a man.

phil
your chauvinism is showing. Western economies exploded when women entered the workforce. Any society that keeps half of it's citizenry under some level of 2nd class citizenship is doomed for failure. America is a greater nation because society realized women could contribute at all levels. Why would anyone think that a nation that doesn't utilize all the abilities of all it's citizens could prosper. Unlike those pathetic nations of the muslim world, that keep it's women virtual prisoners, america recognizes that women are a great and important part of who we are

Roy
"Liberals/Democraps the ones who claim to be open minded are the most narrowminded self interested individuals that I have ever encountered"

***

Followed by some of your opinions like: "whose worthless parents have zero interest in improving the lives of their own children."
and "I'd like to see which ethnic groups contribute the most (in taxes)" and "the child is nothing more than a check to them."

Who in heavens' name are you calling pathetic.
You language (for example: democraps), speaks
volumes, and it isn't good.

Paul
"IMAM OBAMA"

Get real. Find something better to do with
your time.

the impact of Obama's bigotry
So far, it has been very limited. That does not speak well for our country. If and when he becomes president, he will appoint countless people like Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers and Michelle Obama to positions where their damage will be incalculable.

I am pretty convinced America is done -- even if McCain beats Obama -- I doubt it will be by very much. Obama will win the under 40 vote, so either he or someone else with potential radical credentials will become president at some point.

Personally, I am becoming very tired of this stuff -- and I do not plan ever to become some radical on the other side of the spectrum -- who just replaces the word "white" in Jeremiah Wright's comments with "black." But, I also know that thoughtful people are such a small minority. I suppose that in 50 years from now there might be some backlash -- or the majority political groups might get it right -- but why live through this?

proud liberal
"Liberals, in the conservative lexicon, are today's "common man" today's "masses," which conservatives have denigrated forever. We are today's lazy and shiftless Negroes, today's money grubbing and Christ killing Jews."

Wrong. In the conservative lexicon, liberals are people who excuse laziness and irresponsibility, who blame crime on poverty, racism, and society in general, and who think the answer to every economic problem is higher taxes and more regulations. They denounce capital punishment as barbaric, but defend the killing of unborn babies in the name of "choice."

To their credit, liberals are tolerant and respectful of everyone who agrees with them, and they heroically defend freedom of politically-correct speech.

As your statement above indicates, liberals denounce bigotry, but tend to stereotype anyone who disagrees with them as "unenlightened" or "bigoted."

Proud Liberal
You are confusing conservatism with republicanism. The market is the way. Millions of individuals making decisions for their own self interest is the market.

You are talking about politics and the tactics used by some republicans to gain office as elitism. You are correct in that but, wrong in linking conservatism with that.

The government and the economy are two different things. The government does exercise a large influence on the economy. Your preferred leftist candidates want to control the economy. The result is less jobs, as companies are pushed overseas or out of business. You then decry this as simple greed from the companies. Your solution is more control to attempt to correct this rather then less control to lure them back.

The thing you don't get is that more and more control achieves the opposite result from what you intend. You have not learned that the economy cannot be controlled, only influenced for better or worse.

Are some republicans guilty of this? Certainly. You are seeing the reaction of conservatives to a republican candidate that is a democrat. How can you then label conservatives as the same as liberals when we reject a liberal candidate for office?

The two parties are much alike. You find this to your benefit but, still rail against republicans. Conservatives find this very detrimental and rail against liberals in both parties. You cannot see the forest because of the trees.

Ken
"Wrong. In the conservative lexicon, liberals are people who excuse laziness and irresponsibility, who blame crime on poverty, racism, and society in general, and who think the answer to every economic problem is higher taxes and more regulations. "

Poverty does influence crime doesn't it? Some economic problems are caused by a lack of regulation. The housing fiasco for example. I thought too, that since the telephone business became unregulated, we would see better service. There is a happy medium between the two extremes and libs and conservatives should learn from one another.

The elitism of "Personal Responsibility"
It's a long journey from the patron saint of conservatism to personal responsibility, but I'll try to make it easy.

Edmund Burke, the patron saint of conservatism, believed that God placed each and every person, personally, into their social role and gave them the character and intelligence that fitted their position. HE gave the rulers more intelligence and character because they needed that to rule.

In time Social Darwinism replaced, for a time, Divine Providence, as the cause of the superior characteristics of the ruling class. The ruling class, it was said, were more fit; they had the characteristics to prevail in the competition of life; they were the cream rose to the top.

Perceptive people, however, asked where the ruling class got the characteristics which made them the most fit, the characteristics which enabled them to prevail? Was their characteristics a direct gift from God, was it luck and good timing, or did they bestow these characteristics on themselves.

In the fullness of time Limbaugh dwelt among us and proclaimed that success is bestowed upon the individuals with the best character. But, again, does God directly give people the right character, do they bestow their own character on themselves, or do they receive their good character from family, church, good mentors?

Ah, Ha. There is a contradiction lurking in this question that besets conservatives, which you usually don't see. Let's see if you can ferret out the looming contradiction.

limousine liberals
We used to just call them snobs

Understanding the common man
I was raised in an upper middle class white existence. Went to a private high school (where my Dad taught -- so I could go for free). Ivy league college, etc.

So you would expect me to be one of the liberal elites. But, curiously, I am not.

Somehow along the way I was taught (by my parents, teachers, coaches, church, etc.) that all people are interesting in their own way and that we can learn something from everyone. That lesson stuck with me and I am all the richer for it.

I feel sorry for Obama and the rest of the elites that think that they need to take pity on the common man, for they are missing out on truly knowing some of the best that this country has to offer.

I am not sorry that this arrogant viewpoint will bring them to defeat in the fall.

Proud Liberal
Nice try with your 'natural aristocracy' comments.

However; the founding fathers weren't referring to an aristocracy of talent, morality, and statesmanship. Not popularity. Any well-groomed buffoon can promise the world and become popular. HRC has risen due to marriage, and BHO has risen due to pandering. Of course, there are plenty on both sides who are shameless artists of this empty craft. This 'natural aristocracy' also refers to the fact that these founding fathers were creating a place where a 'natural' vs. a 'hereditary' aristocracy could culminate the best out of our civilization w/o the yoke of who your father was artficially holding you down. You managed to warp this concept into a free pass for tyranny. Nice try statist.


edit
However; the founding fathers *were* referring to an aristocracy of talent, morality, and statesmanship.

Proud Liberal
You said;
Scratch a conservative and you'll find someone who believes that we should have representatives who will use their superior knowledge and judgment on behalf of the people who elected them to congress.
Beneath this structural advisement is a belief that "the people" are ignorant, emotional, and should not be entrusted with advocating policy.

I say: So what? You're making something out of nothing. First of all, we DO need people running the country with superior knowledge and judgment that are willing to act on our behalf. Do they ever get carried away? Of course. That's why it is so important to preserve our constitution with conservative SC justices!! With the justice system and the vote we have a reign on our leaders.
BTW, don't assume all people with superior knowledge are elitists. Real elitists tend to gravitate toward the Liberal mind set because they feel they need to take over the lives of the inferior in order to do what is best for them. Mom Hillary and Pop Obama are already preparing to smooth their way into our homes and bank accounts to straighten things out for us.

Liberals, Some Advice
Please dont try to sell us the "Brooklyn Bridge" with obvuscations about the elitism of "personal responsibility". Please, read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and the history of our founding fathers. Blame them for the focus on "personal responsibility". They are the ones that set up the greatest nation on Earth based upon these premises. Now even they provided an avenue for socialists like proud liberal to have their way. However, it will take passing a series of amendments that basically nullifies the Constitution and original precursor documents produced and agreed upon by our founders.

UNTIL YOU GET THAT DONE SOCIALISTS, quit pushin your Marxism on us!

Proud Liberal 2
2nd you said;
If we invest the governmance of our country in a small number of people that represent us in government and lead our biggest corporations that is investing, essentially, in a "command economy and politics" in the sense that we're according to them a wisdom which is superior to the masses or common men and women, i.e., the market.
I say;
I cut the quote in 1/2 because it didn't make sense. Trying to pick out what you are really saying; I believe it boils down to jealousy over the rich people that run the corporations that give JOBS to Americans and TAXES also. We conservative peons praise God that some of the people are smart enough to be very successful. Every country benefits from their intellect. They used their freedom to get rich ... so what!?
We have laws that protect them from using that position to run over the little guy protecting the freedom of same. We are happy to let them also have freedom and enjoy the fruits of their labor.
Libs need to quit whining about people that have power and prosper.
Enjoy their good fortune and fight to uphold the integrity of our constitution.

Poorly Chosen
Obama has admitted that his words were "poorly chosen". Let us see to it that the next president of this country is not.

IGoCommand
Me thinks our Proud Liberal isn't listening :)

Obama: false masker
Hopefully, voters are waking up to what a dissembler and elitist Obama is.
He thinks very highly of himself, and his most recent comments dissing small-town people and their religious beliefs and enjoyment of gun ownership, given to wealthy SF Democrats in what he thought was a private moment (so telling of his false face), prove BO's arrogance and dismissive, disdainful view of Americans he deems inferior and subordinate to himself and his ultra-liberal ideas.

PoorRichard
Ahhh! Great use of words!

Proud Liberal
post 2:05 "Todays conservatism is Catholid in nature because most conservatives readily ingest
the talking points enumerated by various conservative authorities...Heritage Foundation and obediently repeat them to a man."
Wow, the Heritage Foundation is now commanding the mindnumbed robots..who knew. What no Rush or Hannity..you are definitely slipping.
You have just proved the point of our conservative positions..if that comment isn't elitism, nothing is. You just forgot to add
average white, gun totin', church goin', immigrant hating bigots in your paragraph.
I am a Conservative and proud of it, and NOBODY
orders me into group think, I have the brains to think for myself and your post just proves that the liberal left are just versions of SNOBAMA.
You have proven the point that you believe that
we "little people" in flyover country are too stupid to know what's good for us and we need the elite gods to guide us and redeem us from our sins of stupidity.

Eagleone,
Don't bet on the need for amendments to change our nation. The elites in both parties are well on their way to completeing their vision of the new world order socialist utopia that lives in their condescending we know better hearts.

They have duped us into voting the lesser of two evils by telling us a lie over and over until it has become accepted as true. The lie is that only they can govern, only they have the wisdom, knowledge, and experience. Aren't you hearing that all the time, isn't that what you believe because it has been told to you so many times?

Let me ask you this: Are you convinced that Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama or John McCain is so much smarter than you that you could never be President? Do you think that those three people are so much wiser than you that you would never be able to deal with Vladimir Putin or Hugo Chavez? Are these folks so great that they have the proper vision for how big our government should be and you are simply a clueless citizen?

Americans need to get past the DEM/GOP/MSM propaganda and stop believing in myths and lies. There are millions of Americans who do not buy the lies the two parties are selling. We do have other choices, there are alternatives, we don't have to keep doing the same thing hoping for a different result.

If you want to learn how the elites have stolen our inheritance and how we can reclaim it, pleae visit my website, JOEOLIVAFORPRESIDENT.ORG.

Not only will you learn how the elites pulled off this scam, but if you find you do not like my positions on the issues, you will find out how to get to the websites of at least a dozen other independent candidates. The independent movement is coming together to secure the future of freedom! Why not join it? Thanks, Joe

Joe
I do understand that we are basically a socialist nation already. My belief is that we were one ever since federal income tax legislation was passed in the very early 1900's. Folks like FDR made it logorythmically worse. And I certainly agree that both main parties are marketing various degrees of socialism. McCain is the slower road and Obama is the flagpole to socialism. Sad to say, you are right. It would be nice for an independent (libertarian minded) to make it into the WH, but it seems bleak at this point. I truly believe I could do a better job at upholding the Constitition than any of the three currently using State taxpayers time and money to campaign for President while they currently have very important jobs they have chosen not to do for their own sake. However, America wouldnt be ready for me when I would propose to axe 4500 of 5000+ unconstitutional federal giveaway programs we are currently bankrupting our country with.

Tea Party
One of the things I have in mind is "cut and run." This is a shallow and demeaning political game with our national safety. But all conservatives trot it out like butter sliding over a piece of bread.

Somebody, you must know, first enunciated this smear. You could hope for some cool, dispassionate, unemotional response from conservatives who would say, "wait a minute. Democrats are as interested in doing the right thing for America as are Republicans. We differ about what the right thing may be, but Democrats do not make policy out of cowardness."

But no, every last living soul that is conservative, including all those in congress and all those on talk radio lose no opportunity to enunciate that vile smear. Every last man repeats it endlessly. Obviously propaganda. Obviously an ideological meeting of minds.

Obviously no thinking for yourself.

So, Proud Liberal, ...
cut and run is a taboo phrase and demeaning politics, but "Bush lied. People died." is perfectly acceptable?

See, the fallacy of your 4:16pm post is the universal nature of "Every last man repeats it endlessly." First, as "radical right wing" conservative, I've never been a big supporter of the war. If you'd come out from under your rock, you'd know there are quite a few of us conservatives that were not/are not fans of the Iraq portion of the war on terror/terrorists.

Second, I for one, have NEVER used the phrase. I might refer to them as "peace at all costs idiots" who would never find a cause worth fighting for, but I've never used that phrase. Now, I have engaged libs in the debate who have used the "Bush lied. People died." lie, but they have it so ingrained in their delicate little psyche that it's true that you couldn't wedge a hairs width worth of truth into their hateful little brains.

So please, save your sermons for YOUR choir. Maybe there, someone might believe you.

Polls
Are you guys watching these polls. Don't listen to the media. Obama is melting like the wicked witch of the west.
Hillary is in double digits in Indiana and Pennsylvania. North Carolina he's down 6 points. The national polls which are usually one to two weeks behind the state polls he has dropped 5.5 points.

Proud Liberal
"Obviously no thinking for yourself"...

Its overwhelmingly the dems that bloc vote (bar association, NEA, unions, etc..) yet its the conservatives who don't think for themselves? I've seen democrats soliciting (using food and entertainment as a draw) in neighborhoods where people have absolutely no idea what it means to vote or how government works, but are told what to think by the outreach worker. Some in my neck of the woods were told to show up for registration and get free cartons of cigarettes! Teens and young adults are overwhelmingly deomcratic because Jon Stewart does their thinking for them. Boy, did you ever call this one wrong!

Bad Andy
"I was raised in an upper middle class white existence. Went to a private high school (where my Dad taught -- so I could go for free). Ivy league college, etc.

So you would expect me to be one of the liberal elites. But, curiously, I am not. "


Where in heaven's name do you get the idea that
the above is the typical situation for liberals?
It is my impression that what you described above
is the typical "I want to preserve my wealth"
class which would be the conservatives - without
a doubt.

Proud Liberal
Did you ever think that if EVERYONE else is saying "cut and run" and calling the Democrats cowards, it's because they are RIGHT?

Do Democrats/liberals really believe that Iraq will be okay if we just leave? It's completely irrational. No matter the reason why we went in - if we leave now and leave a hole, it will fill up with Islamist extremists and the whole thing will be for nothing.

We must "stay the course" and finish the job (even if it was a little messed up in the beginning). Things are turning around. According to non-liberal news people, Iraq has actually reached MOST of the 18 benchmarks and there are only a handful left and they are in the works. But we don't hear this, do we? I wonder why not? We only hear the bad news, not the good news. I don't need to be in "group think" mode to see that. I watch the news everyday and if I didn't watch Fox News or listen to conservative talk radio, I'd never get this information.

Therefore, the only reason Democrats want to leave Iraq is so that we will lose and they can turn around and still blame it on Bush even though it wouldn't be completely his fault.

The Democrats/liberals pander to the Islamist extremists and you are telling me that "cut and run" is a GOOD thing? In what way? How will Iraq be better? Sure, our men and women will be safe, but the Iraqi people will once again get the shaft from Americans not willing to take the hard road for the right reason. They would rather choose what is easy instead of what is right. Osama bin Laden knows that and commented on our withdrawal from Somalia by none other than Bill Clinton.

So explain to me again how Democrats/liberals are not cowards? Are not "cut and run" people?

Truth is not slander.

I have seen three or four people
complain about women getting the vote, like Phil,
Sawdust, and Boutte. And then they go on
under the assumption that liberals are jerks and
they are superior.

Get a life guys. We have got your number.

Proud Liberal Off In A Time Warp
Proud Liberal offers, "If we invest the governmance of our country in a small number of people that represent us in government and lead our biggest corporations that is investing, essentially, in a "command economy and politics" in the sense that we're according to them a wisdom which is superior to the masses or common men and women, i.e., the market."

What on earth are you talking about? Did this sound intelligent when you said it in front of a mirror? Try again.

I know of no representative of mine that runs a major corporation.

Separately, you have it all wrong. The Representative works for me, not the other way around. The corporate CEO, in the end, works for the paying Consumer, not the other way around. How do you Liberals get so confused?

bolsheviks and mensheviks
when did i lose my vote for the office of u.s. vice president?
think about it.

adios,
Harvey
Lancaster, Taxifornia
dial 1 for english

goldwater
i was told that if i voted for barry "barry loves the bomb" goldwater, we would get boggged down in a war in s.e. asia that we will find difficult to disengage from. this was run on the t.v. and radio.
i didn't believe lbj so i voted for b.g.

damned if their prediction didn't come true.
they even sent me there in 1969.

didi,
Harvey
Lancaster, Mexifornia
dial 1 for english
p.s. if you cannot read the ballot in english, don't fn vote!

Messiah Complex
I just heard of the phrase Osama used in his speech of February 5th, 2008 on Rush's show - "We are the ones we have been waiting for."

This clearly shows his arrogance and Messiah like vision he has of himself, as it was derived from Black Liberation Theology, which in turn derived it from Isaiah 25:9 - "And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us."

This present day formulation reflects the image that the far left has of itself, that they are the messianic generation, the ones who will save the people from ___ (fill in the blank).

For me, I don't need any saving, I'm from Western Pennsylvania where my ancestors 10 generations ago carved out a livelihood in the wilderness, and we have a proud history of self-sufficiency.

Sure, the mills shut down, but the only people who are bitter are the union slaves who thought the union, then the government, would come along to save them; everyone else retrained, created their own job, or migrated to where the jobs are.

No thanks, we don't need a savior, we need someone who will get government off our backs and leave us alone.

Mac Moore
Bah Humbug with Capitalism. I read an article this morning that Microsoft will discontinue my software - forget the name right now; and some guy has gotten 100,000 people to sign a protest; and whatshisname at Micosoft says he knows about the petition but won't do anything about it; and the article said that everyone would have to switch to Vista, which everyone feels is not as good as the one we have now.

So, tell me again Mac, how CEOs work for the consumer - or was that investors. If you said investors I can appreciate it, since the investors will make a lot of money if the consumers are forced to adopt Vista when they don't want to.

So, OK, tell me again.....

virruhdimwit
you alas personify the mindset of the elitist liberal. But as much as you show your contempt for the right, it pales compared to the contempt you show for yourself. You consider yourself broadminded but people like you who can't stand themselves belittle any who don't share your worm's eye view of life. It is great sport to ridicule your vapid life. Still mad at your daughter because she elected to homeschool rather than subject her children to the failed public school system

George Will will.........
This is aimed at George, poor George, he can't help it. He was born with a "silver bullet" in his mouth! George you do hit the nail on the head quite often but do you remember that idiotic article that you wrote that said (paraphrased) " we should do away with that embarrassing 2nd Amendment"? Barak Obama thinks the same thing. It however is no accident that the 2nd Amendment "is the "2nd"
Amendment. The Founders knew that in order to insure the right of the people to have the 1st Amendment, that the 2nd one would be ever so important to "backup" the practise of the 1st!

How is oblama going to
talk to the world's tinpot dictators, when he can't talk without hemming and hawing, and sticking his foot in his mouth without the aid of a teleprompter?

ladykrystyna
Do you know that there are two Shiite groups in Iraq and that Maliki's group is the one with ties to Iran? The reason for the Basra attack by Malkik is that there will be regional votes in July; that the Madhi people will likely win a fair election; and that Maliki attacked Basra to see if he couldn't wrest control from the majority group in Basra before the elections.

Why is it that conservatives imagine that there is some big liberal conspiracy? We liberals think for ourselves and hold many different opinions and are very independent. So, when you say that liberals want to do this or that you are creating a pure fiction; there is no such unity, certainly no such unity of action, among liberals. Coming together at Moveon.Org is something quite different that the fiction you are conjecturing.

Also, as far as I remember the Democratic candidates for president have said something like we'll start pulling out troops immediately or very soon, but will leave troops in Iraq to continue to train Iraqi military, to continue to rebuild Iraq and for other things.

The part that is really not addressed well by conservatives is the play of the groups in Iraq for power: Sunni, two Shiite groups and the Kurds. They are all in it for themselves. It appears to be the neocons' objectives that the United States somehow help to work out a power sharing agreement that will be satisfactory to all of these groups. That's not something can be done militarily. The ability of the United States to broker such an arrangement is questionable, certainly in the near term. The ability of the United States to broker such an arrangement while remaining neutral between the groups is just as questionable.

The very least that the neocons and Bush should do is to level with our citizens about what I have described above, but we've never heard Bush and the neocons be truthful about what I have just described.

I'm Not Bitter
Jus cus its planten season I got the youngins stickin seed in the soil so I'm not bitter about that. Jus cus i gota chase the chickins out of the bathroom after they hatch. Least I got chickins ana indooor privy. I aint bitter cus my gun jammed last week shootin sqriuls,I got 5 more in the gun cabinet. Ima not bitter about the new pastor at church he aint friendly to me butt at least most of the people still there are like me.

ima not bitter about gas bee in so hi i cut back on shine so wit the extree i jus mixit in my gastank. ima not bitter bout my dentel plan i still got 11 tooths ta scrub. heck i dont no who this odama feller is but ima thinkin he shur dont no what his'sa talkin bout

life is goood

Proud Lib
Gates can keep his Vista program. Next system for my home and company will be a Mac. It's a free Country, I can't make him keep XP and he can't make me buy Vista.

I don't know George
Let's see......a single comment involving the word "bitter" implies that Obama is now a die hard follower of John Kenneth Galbraith, Richard Hofstadter, and Karl Marx.

While I agree with George Will's critique of those three gentlemen, it looks to me like George Will has been spending too much time watching Fox "news" if he is going to start making this kind of elaborate connection from a single remark.

I think
it's just Virrudh's time of the month. We'll have to forgive her inane comments; she's not responsible.

Snobbery defined
Early in the campaign, Michelle Obama told Barack
that even though it was early to run, the time was
right now because they were still 'almost normal'.
Obama explained it this way: "Michelle’s point
was, in eight years from now, 10 years from now,
we may still be nice people, but we may be in this
orbit where we just don’t remember, we don’t hear
people’s voices anymore.”

Snobbery exemplified
Early in the campaign, Michelle Obama told Barack
that even though it was early to run, the time was
right now because they were still 'almost normal'. Obama explained it this way: "Michelle’s point was, in eight years from now, 10 years from now, we may still be nice people, but we may be in this orbit where we just don’t remember, we don’t hear people’s voices anymore.”

Enough 'bama baiting
This is an insightful column, but at this point I would honestly prefer bitter liberalism over counterfeit conservatism. Just look at what the Counterfeit Cowboy is trying to push on us with his new climate change policy. Mark my words: It will serve as the rope that will be made into the noose that will strangle not just the American economy, but our freedom. It is a fundamental capitulation to liberalism. If the GOP will not defend us against it, who will? Let liberals push it, and if they can get it passed, they will take the blame for the fallout. What do we need a capitulating GOP for?

Dear Mr. Proud Lib,
Would you like to buy a Rambler? How about a Studebaker? Maybe you'd like to buy a Cabbage Patch doll to strap into a car seat? I have both a reel type 8mm camera and 8mm projector for sale if you're interested?

What liberals apparently don't recognize is that all products have a life span. I'd love to go out be ablt to buy a brand new 1968 Camaro Rally Sport, but we both know that ain't gonna happen. If you like Win XP so much, start your own company that will support it and develop new products that will run on that platform.

I could explain how business' must develop new products once the market is saturated, but the knowledge may cause your apparent disdain-for-free-markets-brain to explode.

Well said by man Will, on whose watch?
As so called Conservatives are more and more becoming experts in describing all what liberalims/socialism/communism has done and contiues to do to America, they actually end up proving that all of that happened while Conservatives all along enjoyed the ride themselves. The National Debt under George W. increased faster than ever, and he is still only outrun in spending by LBJ. Overall the Nation is declared in full bankruptcy at the tune of close to 60 trillion dollars, while forwarding the bill to God only knows, what generation! Yes, a true Pharisaical attitude by the ones who claim all knowledge; a knowledge that supposed to know the difference between good and evil, but chose to just watch and see things going to hell, but now the Monday morning quarterbacking as idiots, only can! Yes, while my Republican Party treating Ron Paul like leprosy and instead lining up behind a one, that to my satisfaction, I have labeled as nothing but a refried Mr. Evil Hitler who also trusted in his guns,. while those same guns sent him to hell. Yes, America welcome to the Club of Empires, enjoy the ride while it lasts while there is still room in hell for one more Empire! Yes, Ronald Reagan is weeping his grave along with the Founding Fathers! Yes, these words will forevermore stand in silence in full comdemnation of todays America in all it does: "Overgrown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to Republican liberty". By George Washington as part of his farewell address. Yes, as a legal immigrant of 52 years the previous mentioned individuals are my heroes, period, as things are going no better, than to hell, as I can determine.

Not bovine but sheep!
Galbraith stands at his lecturn manipulating small minds and believes the rest of us bovine can be dealt with as easily.

He has the wrong grazer. Not bovine but sheep.

God purposely made us leadable.

The founding fathers did recognize this. They would have been foolish not to. But you see there is a difference. They included themselves in the fold.

We do need leadership. To be a good leader you must see the value,talents and gifts in the people around you and be humbled.

Ronald Reagon was the best at this but I was equally happy with both Bushes.

Galbraith did make a good point small children are easily manipulated by advertising. My boys wanted every toy and sweet cereal they saw. Parents are responsible for turning off the television.

Jethro Counsels Moses
Select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth,who hate dishonest gain and you shall place these over them, as leaders.

Simple words that quicken the heart.
Honesty,ability, hate dishonest gain, fear God.

Of course we now live in a female dominant society.

Dear Don
Barack hemming and hawing? Are you seriously worried about his speaking abilities? Considering the oaf currently in the whitehouse that's a ridiculous charge.

Proud Liberal
So you are saying no one is right and no one is wrong?

Are you suggesting that opposite arguments can be true at the same time. That God can exist and not exist.

If I say God exists am I an elitist?
If you say God does not exist are you an elitist?

The PHD's at the conservative think tanks would not have a problem with admitting that the concepts of right and wrong exist. That there is a thing called Truth.

If Adams and Jefferson thought we were ignorant masses why did they desire our freedom and right to choose a leader for ourselves?

There is no perfection in this world. Checks and balances must always accompany power. Our freedoms must be governed because of our propensity to be self-centered. In christian lingo that would be (sin nature).


The more Obama speaks…
The more we learn about him – finally. Should we be surprised to find out that the most liberal senator in the nation is a condescending “platitude salesman” without sufficient character to distance himself from his racist pastor? I’m not surprised at all.

Obama's policies
The stupid things that Obama says just shows that he isn't as smart as he thinks. How can anyone be so dumb as to vote for anyone that wants to raise taxes? The taxes we pay now are being wasted. Why should we want to pay more? Hasn't anyone listened to what the health care would be like if he or Hillary gets elected? They depend a lot on people that want them in office that probably aren't paying any taxes. People that know how to get something for nothing always vote for a Democrat. I do not see how they get working people to vote for them.

benehogan
“A good movie to watch, start to finish,about change is Dr. Zhivago.
Enjoy.”

Yes, we contemplate historic patterns over here in my neck of the woods and also see the similarities. All indicators point to bad.

Also, Excellent insight Mr. Will!

I like this guy calling himself
boutte. Always a good read.

Especially the quip about giving women the vote.

Obama quote - what if?
"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them…And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.
And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

What do you think the response to this kind of comment would be if it had been made not about small town USA, but about Islamic radicals?

Obama quote-what it is!
"You go into the southside of Chicago and like alot of ghettos they've never had jobs so it's not surprising then they are bitter, they cling to guns or religion or hate for people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Sounds alot like his excuses for the Rev Wright and his klan with a tan. All of the hate in America comes down to "the man has you down but if you elect me I can make the man give you all you need." Never ever ever make anyone responsible for their own lives or condition because big government can make all things Wright!
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