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Thursday, February 28, 2008
George Will :: Townhall.com Columnist
McCain's Good Times
by George Will
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


WASHINGTON - Certain kinds of conservatives, distrusting Richard Nixon's ideological elasticity, rejected him -- until 1973. Although it had become clear his administration was a crime wave, they embraced him because the media were his tormentors. Today such conservatives, whose political compasses are controlled, albeit negatively, by The New York Times, have embraced John McCain. He, although no stickler about social niceties (see below), should thank the Times, for two reasons.

First, the Times muddied, with unsubstantiated sexual innuendo about a female lobbyist, a story about McCain's flights on jets owned by corporations with business before the Senate Commerce Committee, and his meeting with a broadcaster (McCain at first denied it happened; the broadcaster insists it did, and McCain now agrees) who sought and received McCain's help in pressuring the Federal Communications Commission. Perhaps McCain did nothing corrupt, but he promiscuously accuses others of corruption, or the "appearance" thereof. And he insists that the appearance of corruption justifies laws criminalizing political behavior -- e.g., broadcasting an electioneering communication that "refers to" a federal candidate during the McCain-Feingold blackout period close to an election.

McCain should thank the Times also because its semi-steamy story distracted attention from an unsavory story about McCain's dexterity in gaming the system for taxpayer financing of campaigns. Last summer, when his mismanagement of his campaign left it destitute, he applied for public funding, which entails spending limits. He seemed to promise to use taxpayer dollars as partial collateral for a bank loan.

There are two ways for a candidate to get on Ohio's primary ballot -- comply with complex, expensive rules for gathering signatures, or simply be certified to receive taxpayer funding. McCain's major Republican rivals did the former. He did the latter.

Democrats, whose attachment to campaign reforms is as episodic as McCain's, argue that having made such uses of promised matching funds, McCain is committed to taking them and abiding by spending limits -- which would virtually silence his campaign until the September convention. This would be condign punishment for his argument that restricting spending does not restrict speech. But Bradley Smith offers him some support.

When Smith chaired the Federal Election Commission, he voiced skepticism about the wisdom and constitutionality of aspects of McCain-Feingold's campaign regulations. McCain responded characteristically, impugning Smith's character. When, at a 2004 Senate hearing, Smith nevertheless extended his hand to McCain, McCain refused to shake it.

Smith, behaving honorably toward someone who does not reciprocate civilities, today says McCain has an arguable case that, not having cashed any public checks, he should be released from his commitment and the spending ceiling. The FEC must decide, but it cannot act because it lacks a quorum.

Normally it has six members, three from each party. Three members -- two Democrats and one Republican -- were recess appointments whose terms have expired. Senate Republicans are prepared to confirm all three -- plus the confirmation of David Mason for a new term as chairman -- to six-year terms, but Barack Obama and three other Democrats are blocking confirmation of the Republican, Hans von Spakovsky.

Von Spakovsky is as skeptical as Smith is about the entanglement of politics in regulations for which McCain is primarily responsible. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, refusing to surrender the settled principle that each party chooses its FEC members, insists that all four be voted on as a package.

McCain, although rarely reticent about matters concerning campaign regulations, has said nothing in defense of von Spakovsky, the campaign against whom has been led by the Campaign Legal Center, whose chairman is Trevor Potter, general counsel of the McCain campaign.

In 2001, McCain, a situational ethicist regarding "big money" in politics, founded the Reform Institute to lobby for his agenda of campaign restrictions. It accepted large contributions, some of six figures, from corporations with business before the Commerce Committee (e.g., Echosphere, DISH Network, Cablevision Systems Corporation, a charity funded by the head of Univision). The Reform Institute's leadership included Potter and two others who are senior advisers in McCain's campaign, Rick Davis and Carla Eudy.

Although his campaign is run by lobbyists; and although his dealings with lobbyists have generated what he, when judging the behavior of others, calls corrupt appearances; and although he has profited from his manipulation of the taxpayer-funding system that is celebrated by reformers -- still, he probably is innocent of insincerity. Such is his towering moral vanity, he seems sincerely to consider it theoretically impossible for him to commit the offenses of appearances that he incessantly ascribes to others.

Such certitude is, however, not merely an unattractive trait. It is disturbing righteousness in someone grasping for presidential powers.

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About The Author
George F. Will is a 1976 Pulitzer Prize winner whose columns are syndicated in more than 400 magazines and newspapers worldwide.
 
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Rayfinn
Point well taken (re. Dems crossing over to vote McAmnesty).

Ron Paul has no chance (other than 3rd party). Voting for him now sends no message to McVain, the RNC or the MSM.

Tasmanian Jedi
I am not handing over my party. It was hijacked by stupid Republicans in states where Dems are allowed to cross over and vote as Repubs. What a crock that is. Fred Thompson called Huckabee a liberal. I disagree on that, but he raised taxes a half billion dollars(public record) and was soft on criminals(public record) and soft on immigration (public record). I know he has signed the immigration pledge, after the fact. Like McCain, who now says that he heard the conservative voice who wants our border closed, it is after the fact. McCain and Huckabee are moderates. Vote Ron Paul if you want a conservative constitutionist, although he is very weak on defense. A lot of votes for Paul would bemore of a wake up call to McVain than a 10-15 percent win over Huckleberry.

Huckabee still a crook, remember Nixon's
missing 18 minutes of tape? Huckabee is one of four candidates(two Rep and two Dem)who are crooks.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/judicial-watch-announces-list- washington-s-ten-most-wanted-corrupt-politicians-2007

If he had no sins to hide, why in the name of Heaven did he destroy state computer hard drives (something NO other state would stand for).The drives could have been removed, stored in a secure vault and new ones installed in the computers.This is just as effective and it preserves a data trail for audit purposes. This was taxpayer owned property, obstruction of justice, destroying that which could prove your innocence OR PROVE YOUR GUILT. Wonder which it was?

Tasmanian Jedi, rest of the story
Sorry but you are wrong on trying to pin the Dumond thing on the parole board. PUBLIC record, they voted 4 to 1 against release before Huckabee met with the board and 4 to 1 in favor after meeting with the Huckster. To say Huckabee's role was trivial stretches credibility to the limit. I do not mind that he erred in judgment, I do mind his attitude in not being willing to admit his error and to apologize to Lois Davidson the mother who had to bury his mistake. Instead he dismissed her.

Lois Davidson, whose daughter Carole Sue Shields was raped and killed in 2000 by a criminal whose release from prison was championed by former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, issued the following statement today in response to Huckabee's contention in a television interview that her story was being "exploited" for political purposes:

"Last night, Mike Huckabee accused me of being exploited and used for political purposes. I assure you, Mr. Huckabee, I am not being exploited. I am fully aware of the actions I have taken in attempting to inform the public of your role in my daughter's rape and murder. I have spent over 7 years thinking about this.
"I am not a dupe. But you, Governor Huckabee, were duped time and again by convicted felons who once released from prison by you began hurting people again.
"Mr. Huckabee, I am not a victim. However, my daughter was a victim. She was raped and murdered by a serial rapist that you wanted freed from prison. Please be honest about the role you played in releasing my daughter's killer."

Davidson's story is the subject of an ad aired in South Carolina this week focusing on Huckabee's dismal record on the rights of crime victims. The ad was developed and paid for by Victims Voice, an Arkansas-based victims advocacy group and can be viewed on the Victims Voice Web site at http://www.victimsvoice527.com.

Re Hunter & Tancredo
I meant "did" not have a chance (past tense, since they dropped out)

Rayfinn, Rayfinn, Rayfinn...
So you just want to give up and hand your party over to McCain?

While there's still a chance Tuesday to prevent him from getting the delegates needed to guarantee the nomination?

Huckabee is the only way to derail that.

Next point: Huckabee is NOT a moderate.

Every candidate that had any chance moved to the right for this campaign.

Mitt Romney.

Fred Thompson.

(Not Rudy Giuliani. He didn't run from his record, but he paid for it, didn't he?)

Huckabee moved to the right on a couple issues, like the one you cited, immigration.

But he's been on the right for YEARS on several really important ones. Life...marriage...2nd amendment...taxes.

(Don't bring up Dumond again...that's more the Democratic parole board's fault than Huckabee's.)

Any candidate that's a truer conservative, as you said "by public record, not pledge"...Ron Paul...Alan Keyes...Duncan Hunter...Tom Tancredo...does not have a chance.

McVain might get my vote, too...but that's in NOVEMBER. For now, I'm fighting for what's right for the party.

The GOP gave the conservative the base the finger after we gave them the White House the last 2 times. We, the base, ain't puttin' up with that garbage anymore.

What Ann Coulter said a year or two ago may actually happen, and soon. The Dems will run so far left they'll fall off the political cliff, and we'll be left with a Republican Party and a Conservative Party.

McAmnesty surely isn't conservative. If that's what the GOP wants, my guess is they really don't want to win this election. (Who knows why?)

lilly
Knock it off with the religious jokes :)

("Mike Huckabee has ALREADY made me a believer. I believe that we don't need a televangelist as our president.")

So are we to believe you wouldn't have voted for Romney? Because he's a bishop (IS, not was a pastor like Huckabee, IS) in his church.

McCain gets my vote
And that is all. I cannot tolerate what Hillary or Obama will do for sure with a rubber stamp Congress. Think "Great Society" only 10 times worse. McCain will not get my money, my phone bank polling, my canvassing door to door, etc. I appreciate his service to our country as a soldier. As a congressman, his record is too moderate to demand my loyalty. Huckabee should go down in flames next week. Maybe he will finally catch Romney in delegates by the time McCain clinches. Whoopee. I hope McCain chooses Huckster for VP and we are done with both moderates on immigration (by public record, not pledge) in time for 2012.

I am not a Republican
I am a conservative. The Republican Party has been paying lip service to conservative values and then going to Washington to sell us out since Reagan left office. They are foolish and cowardly weasels.

Conservative Quote of the Day
"A man who chooses between drinking a glass of milk and a glass of a solution of potassium cyanide does not choose between two beverages; he chooses between life and death. A society that chooses between capitalism and socialism does not choose between two social systems; it chooses between social cooperation and the disintegration of society. Socialism is not an alternative to capitalism; it is an alternative to any system under which men can live as human beings."

-- Ludwig von Mises

dreadnaught - you are a pro-life
I think it is wonderful that you are a pro-life Republican. I agree with you 100% there.

One of the main reasons I consistently vote Republican is because of that issue.

However, if by signing ONE single Amnesty bill McCain makes the Republican Party the MINORITY party for the rest of our LIVES and therefore ELEVATES the Democrats to be the MAJORITY party for the rest of our LIVES, HOW in the world will you EVER see pro-life US Supreme Court judges or a pro-lfe majority in the US Congress?

Amnesty means DEMOCRAT pro-choice RULE for the rest of our LIVES.


brett:
Dear Conservative of the rarest ones:

I would never compromise on ANY principle of mine; should I ***Yeah, sure*** ever become President. Since I must do my best anyway; I adapt to the present circumstance, which is to trust in God.

I can easily pledge NEVER to trade my vote for the sake of upholding one minute the atrocity of abortion. But I'm stuck in this country for now. I'll trust any other candidate except that kind; if it's in the national interest. Not the party's ideology; the national interest.

Because ordinarily there's no principle that makes me MORE an American than the rest of us. I can only be a thinking American, as the Founding Fathers were.

McCain isn't any George Washington. But until one comes along; I'll call McCain at least --"fungible"-- ?

Norman - I read your blog
Well done.

Your past sounds very similiar to mine. I was an sometimes atheist and sometimes agnostic all the way thru Engineering.

It was by studying physics, thermodynamics, nucleaur physics, calculus, and information theory that I begin seeing a design pattern to the Universe.

The Universe was clearly not built on chaos and random chance but was designed with all these LAWS which allowed order to exist.

The amazing thing was this Creator made the LAWS of the Universe comprehendable to humans.

So it was science that lead me to Christianity, because Christianity also answers the fundamental questions of life and explains why humans given the freedom to choose good or evil, often choose evil.

dreadnaught - sorry principles come 1st
dreadnaught writes: Thursday, February, 28, 2008 6:49 PM
Brett and Plumber:
"ONLY if we elect enough Conservative Republican Senators and Congressman can we stop this Democrat rule Amnesty. McCain has already said he will sign Amnesty if it crosses his desk."

PLEASE ! Stop with the "Conservative" shibboleth ! I AM conservative; and representative of a view MUCH closer to the mainstream that yours. In the offing this November is a presidential race we can WIN ! The election of a Republican, John McCain. We can STILL strive for a new Republican congressional gain.

Brett writes:
Conservatives don't argue that their views are closer to the mainstream. Conservatives argue about principles. For example, Conservatives believe abortion is wrong and needs to be outlawed just like murder. The mainstream view can be morphed to support whatever is currently popular with the average person.

dreadnaught there is nothing wrong with calling yourself a moderate Republican. What Conservative positions do you hold dear that you would NOT compromise on?

And any . . .
. . . McCain supporters who think that "real" conservatives can't possibly refuse to support McCain can click on my name, above, and check out my Townhall blog. No DNC shill, I.

Candidates . . .
. . . are never entitled to anyone's vote. At a minimum, they need to ASK for a person's vote. Ideally, they should do so respectfully (or at least civilly).

John McCain has done neither, at least not as regards conservatives.

If conservatives decide to hold their noses and vote for McCain, I won't call them any names. I understand the reasoning, even though I don't agree with it. It would be nice if McCain's supporters (including a number on this blog) would show the same respect to those of us who refuse to do so.

SJ Doc
No disagreement here. It only works within the strict confines of the Constitution however. 70+ years of an activist SCOTUS has rendered the enumerated powers of the Constitution nearly meaningless.

The Founders were wise to the problems of democracy. To quote Plato, "The masses are asses, and cannot be trusted to rule wisely".

That's why we're a constitutional republic first, a democracy second.

Regardless, the massive Third World migration to the US is killing the practical application of conservatism.

lilly - McCain the damn-near-goat...
--
Darling lilly, it's most certainly true (and a matter of record) that John Sidney McCain III punched out of Canoe U. ranking 894th of 899 in his class.

Something of a disappointment to his daddy.

No word on how he ranked in his one-year course at the National War College ('73-'74), which he was allowed to attend despite his insufficiencies in rank and seniority.

And if "... this country has now learned the hard way that it can't afford a president who is a knowledge-o-phobic," then what can you say about former constitutional law professor Barack Hussein Obama, whose stance on the Second Amendment completely ignores both the Freedmen's Bureau Act (1866) and the 14th Amendment with regard to their provisions to protect "the constitutional right to bear arms...without respect to race or color, or previous condition of slavery"?

Is he a "knowledge-o-phobic or just a lying little pissant with delusions of adequacy?




-----
"I wish I was a Negro
.With lots of Negro soul
.So I could stay true to my ethnic roots
.And still play rock 'n' roll

"If I was a funky Negro
.Eatin' soul food barbeques
.I wouldn't have to sing
.The middle-class liberal well-intentioned blues

"Intentioned blues
.Intentioned blues ...

"But I am not a Negro (c'mon!)
.Not a Red Man nor a Mex (join me, kids!)
.I'm a member of the oppressing color
.Language, age, and sex

"I sympathize with the Arab cause
.I feel for the put-upon Jews
.And I keep singing
.The middle-class liberal
.Humanitarian
.Meaningful dialogue
.We are all responsible
.Well-intentioned blues

"Intentioned blues
.Intentioned blues"

-- written by Christopher Guest, and sung by Tom McMahon, from the old *National Lampoon Radio Hour*


Tasmanian
Mike Huckabee has ALREADY made me a believer. I believe that we don't need a televangelist as our president.

894 In His Class?
On another website just now I see that Matt Welch, in his book "The Myth of a Maverick" (about McCain) says that McCain ranked 894th in his Annapolis class of 899. I have two reactions. 1) Let's find out of this is true and 2) If it is, this sounds like George Stupid Bush all over again. Can we afford that? Surviving prison camp is well and good, but this country has now learned the hard way that it can't afford a president who is a knowledge-o-phobic.

Plumber - On the nature of government
--
Posts the Plumber:

"It is the NATURE of government to get increasingly larger as population increases in size. The phenomenon of gesellschaft CAN be stifled with a government which has enumerated powers and a branch of government, like a Supreme Court, which can dispassionately rule on the constitutionality of laws passed by the legislature. The system collapses if a justice has her/his finger in the wind.

"In fact, in his essay 'Social Contract', Rousseau, though he agreed with the nature of government to get larger, argued that as population size increases the government MUST get smaller in order to be efficacious. It's a good read."


Thomas Paine's "Common Sense" is better:

"Some writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants, and government by our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness POSITIVELY by uniting our affections, the latter NEGATIVELY by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher.

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer."


It is not the *size* of a government that matters (though major metropolitan areas such as Los Angeles and New Jersey are demonstrating that - ceteris paribus - greater size carries with it greater waste, inefficiency, and corruption) so much as the reality of government gone beyond the bounds of lawful limitations, government as some sort of Satanic Santa Claus.

--

Dr.Bob
Mr rules are not constitutional. I don't think it mandates how many days those bozos stay in Washington.That would be MY rule. Their rules are extra-constitional.

Rowly
Rowly writes: "What this country needs is a change in the rules."

My comment.

Why? The US Governemnt doesn't follow the rules (i.e., constiution) now, why should they follow a new set of rules.


Respectable Perspective
You are 54 years old and have voted 100% for Republicans. This year,because you don't like the candidate,you're not gonna play anymore. Just gonna take your marbles and go home ! You may as well just go ahead and vote for the Democrat. For all intents and purposes,that is what you will be doing.I am sure they will love you for it.The Independent Party is a party in name only.It needs to be built up for years so it will be a viable one.Right now it is not.I will vote that party when it IS viable.
You go on and do what you gotta do.I understand.I just wonder how you will feel the next four years,if we lose.Every time you see him(or her),you will say"I CAN-NOT believe I helped put that S.O.B.in office."

And now a word to everyone else
(Sorry I'm reposting; there were like 100 new posts today so maybe you missed it)

Vote for Huck Tue 3/4 and in early voting!

All Paul supporters & everybody else vote Huckabee! Why this strategy? Well:

During the primaries it's obvious Paul will not win. A vote for Huck is a no-confidence vote in McCain (unless it's a vote for Huck, like mine was, but follow me for a minute). Huck has to win SuperTuesday 2 ESPECIALLY in TX & OH to keep McVain from the magic number of 1,191 delegates.

Then we'll get the brokered convention we want. At that point we will work to get either Huck or Paul, anybody but McAmnesty, nominated.

And if Paul's not the nominee, you can vote for him 3rd party (if he does it).

But for now the last chance you have to save your party from the RNC/MSM nominee is to vote for Huck.

20 min at mikehuckabee.com will make you a believer.

dreadnaught
Hi; you seem to have fallen for the "no-amnesty crowd=racist white Republicans" lie of many lefties. (If I'm wrong on that I probably read too fast.)

Have you considered voting for Mike Huckabee in the primary? While he toughened up on illegal immigration for the campaign (like Mitt, Fred, & everyone else but Hunter & Tancredo who were already there), he has gone out of his way these last 8-12 months to make the case that we are not racist, and we should be careful not to sound that way.

Besides that, since 9/11 border security is a national security issue.

Before that, anybody bothered by illegal immigration essentially shrugged their shoulders. Now we don't have that luxury.

Conservatives are not embracing McCharad
Georgi Porgi,

Silly boy. Conservatives are not endorsing The McCharade, NYT swift-boating him notwithstanding. They are taking another opportunity to un-endorse the hated NYT. If blogs, radio, TV and talk are showing anything, it's that The McCharade is failing to attract conservatives in numbers large enough to cost him the election in November. Here's a prediction: the networks will call the election for Obama before a lot of Americans make it home from the commute and The McCharade will deliver a concession speech to 10 p.m. Eastern Time. I'm a 54-year-old with a lifetime 100% voting record for Republican presidential candidates. This year, that perfect GOP voting record will come to an end. The Constitution Party is a party that gets it, and it will get my presidential vote this year. If the GOP doesn't wake up and tear down this ridiculous Big Tent, the CP may get my vote again in 2012.

SJ Doc
Will was just responding to my earlier post to Dread at 6:21pm.

My Rules
What this country needs is a change in the rules.I would rule that the congress would reverse the time they spend in session.The days they normally spend making rules and passing laws,they should spend in their district ,working.They days they usually spend in their district,they would spend at their jobs in Washington.They are making entirely too many laws. The mischief they do in Washington is burying us under a pile of dung called laws and rules.They have programs for everything imaginable,some are duplicates of programs that have already proven not to work.They do not know how to cancel an unworkable one."It will work if we just throw more money at it." Every elected official wants their name on a program,even if it is a bad one.They think it makes them look like they are worthy.They are earning a vote for their next term.They start politicking for their second term before they are half way through their first.I say throw the bums out.Lock the doors and limit severly the number of days they are allowed back in.Them's my rules and I'm stickin' to 'um.....

SJ Doc
"So "small government" - which is to say government limited by rule of law, bound "down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution" - is not compatible with high population density?"

It is the NATURE of government to get increasingly larger as population increases in size. The phenomenon of gesellschaft CAN be stifled with a government which has enumerated powers and a branch of government, like a Supreme Court, which can dispassionately rule on the constitutionality of laws passed by the legislature. The system collapses if a justice has her/his finger in the wind.

In fact, in his essay "Social Contract", Rousseau, though he agreed with the nature of government to get larger, argued that as population size increases the government MUST get smaller in order to be efficacious. It's a good read.



What we're living
is the death of the practical application of conservatism.

It'll still live in our minds and in textbooks. That's good enough for the GOP leadership.

Will,
Thanks, the hypothetical Wyoming town is called a "gemeinschaft". Fewer people = smaller government. In case you're wondering, the size of government at all levels increases at an increasing rate as population grows. You live it Will, so do I here in Colorado. Has government spending ever gone down? Have taxes ever gone down? How many times per year would you say that your local, county, or state government wants to raise taxes or fees?

The reason is, by-n-large, the increase of anonymity in a city vs the lack of it in a town. But the reasons are myriad.

Couple that with radical leftists that permeate the public schools and taxpayer-coerced universities, and what you get is, quite frankly, a democratically-elected slave state. A state where velvet glove equality is valued higher than liberty.

will - The putative incompatibility...
--
...of conservatism with megalopoli.

Posts will:

"conservatism (ie small government) cannot thrive in overcrowded, highly populated (overpopulated) spaces. It is a sentiment I have NEVER seen posting here at TH."


So "small government" - which is to say government limited by rule of law, bound "down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution" - is not compatible with high population density?

Really?

Got anything to support your contention that metropolitan areas (like your Los Angeles and my New Jersey) really *NEED* intrusive, criminal, tyrannous, stupidly socialist government-gone-juramentado shoved viciously up the aching anus of each and every citizen in the community?

Helluva thesis you've got there. I'd say it's in dire need of expatiation, wouldn't you?





-----------------
"A man who chooses between drinking a glass of milk and a glass of a solution of potassium cyanide does not choose between two beverages; he chooses between life and death. A society that chooses between capitalism and socialism does not choose between two social systems; it chooses between social cooperation and the disintegration of society. Socialism is not an alternative to capitalism; it is an alternative to any system under which men can live as human beings."

-- Ludwig von Mises

Make that,
...THAN "before a radically...."

Dread,
You'll either have to convince me that being stabbed in the back by a "friend" is better than being stabbed in the front by an enemy, or you'll have to implore John McCain to implore President Bush to do his job by taking illegal immigration off the table as a campaign issue.

I think McCain is a sellout to conservatism, but I'm going to give him some advice: McCain must assuage the contempt conservatives have for him without appearing to pander. Like it or not (not), it is people like me who've donated time and money to the GOP at the grassroots who make the machine work. Trying to scare us with Obama doesn't fly if WE keep bringing up McCain/Feingold and McCain/Kennedy.

IMO, McCain should meet with Bush, secretly of course, and try to get him to start enforcing immigration laws. Then send out steady press releases of positive results of the enforcement measures. Take the issue off of the table as much as possible, without McCains direct involvement. Minute Men on the border in the weeks leading to November will drive McCain "enthusiasm" into the tank. You watch! It'll happen. I might be right down there with them.

ESCHEW THE "CHILDREN OF GOD" BS!!! Emotions are an illogical way to make decisions. They're deadly in the hands of government.

Secondly, McCain MUST say that he'd nominate a judge who'd rule McCain/Feingold the same way as the other conservatives on the Court. None of this "Alito is too conservative" (Novak stands by his sources). Conservatives believe that tinkering with the Constitution requires an Amendment. A SCOTUS with five justices with their fingers in the wind isn't going to provide us with much justice, or an accurate interpretation of the Constitution.

He's gotta do it soon. If it becomes an issue of pandering, then better to get it over with now, before a radically divided, angry convention.

I need to bathe.

eastwind
These people are "hardcases"!! The'd better think twice before sittin' this one out. Too much to lose. We've lost too much now. They think the lesser of the two evils is still evil. I beg to differ. We may find what evil really is if we "bite off our nose to spite our face"...
Mccain may have some redeeming factors.The other side does not.

Never
Why do the pundits fail to understand that never means never?

Not me, nor any conservative in my family, will ever vote for a liberal Repub again. McCain is a liberal Repub. We will never vote for him.

I believe we are not alone in our conviction...many, many conservatives join us in the finality of our decision. Conservatives have sacrificed principles too many times for the sake of "unity" and we are done. No more.

rowly
well, nothing much to say about mccain other than at least he's the devil we hope we know...

Plumber
That is a remarkable post: conservatism (ie small government) cannot thrive in overcrowded, highly populated (overpopulated) spaces. It is a sentiment I have NEVER seen posting here at TH.

I post from southern California. I live in Los Angeles & I think it is no accident that all the huge cities all along the coastline here vote consistently democratic. And I'm talking about the hard-working productive citizens who live here. Living in a highly populous area colors your thinking on what government can & should do.

I'm sure if I lived in some small-ish town in Wyoming, population 1,465, then it would be much easier to subscribe to conservative ideology (though not "social" conservative ideology for me; everyone should be socially libertarian). But the idea of trying to adhere to conservatives principles in a Los Angeles County population that is just short of 10 million people (by 2006 census estimates) is ludicrous. Conservatism, as an ideology, cannot meet the needs of the masses. Just as, I suppose, conservatism as we know it could never take root in a democratic China.

The United States was a whole lot simpler in 1776. What worked in Virginia at the end of the 18th century is not necessarily what will work in Manhattan, 2008.

Brett and Plumber:
"ONLY if we elect enough Conservative Republican Senators and Congressman can we stop this Democrat rule Amnesty. McCain has already said he will sign Amnesty if it crosses his desk."

PLEASE ! Stop with the "Conservative" shibboleth ! I AM conservative; and representative of a view MUCH closer to the mainstream that yours. In the offing this November is a presidential race we can WIN ! The election of a Republican, John McCain. We can STILL strive for a new Republican congressional gain.

The party must regroup--come back into sync of and by the various constituencies; Conservatives are NOT any overwhelming majority in the GOP-- You just think so ! Conservatives must unselfishly share the spoils with other good men and women to the center and left. Otherwise, the Democrats take everything !


Plumber:

"This is the nature of government. By defending massive population growth, YOU are advocating the death of limited government."

A nice formula. It doesn't mean much; because by allowing the presidency in 2009 to fall to Obama; you'd hardly even HOPE for limited gov't; and you'd still have a larger population as a result. McCain's presidency would at least dispense with facile and meaningless smackdowns.

Brett,etal.
Ya'll do what you want to do about McCain.You hate him so much,it's no use trying to talk sense to some people.I can live with him being president for four years if they pick a decent,conservative VP for him to run with.Believe me,we have no choice !!! Elect Hill and you get the Dastardly Duo,with their crookedness.Elect BHO and we may soon be under SHARIA LAW...

A tip of my hat to George
This would be condign punishment for his argument that restricting spending does not restrict speech.

Condign - how appropriate.

Yesterday's round was 10-8 Obama scoring big on A-Q in Iraq.

Today our war hero had difficulty deciding if he was a conservative Republican or a liberal one. Looks like another round to Obama 10-9 this time.

It is a long long time between now and November so who knows. . . .but it is not a good start.

Dread,
You ever hear the word "gesellschaft"? The political science meaning of the word means, in a nutshell: more people = bigger government.

Massive population growth is destroying conservatism. It will continue to destroy the actuality of limited government regardless of whether or not a Republican is elected.

This is the nature of government. By defending massive population growth, YOU are advocating the death of limited government.

And BTW, according to Heritage, each illegal immigrant family COSTS taxpayers $21K per year. It matters not if illegals are otherwise law-abiding. They are still parasitic thieves by succling the govt teat.

Except they are worse than that. An honest thief takes a chance when he breaks into your home to steal. The otherwise honest illegal hides behind the ballots of those who support the welfare state and mass immigration to get his ill-gotten booty.

And don't pull the, "well, citizens do it too" BS. If we are to have massive Third World population growth, we must eliminate the welfare state FIRST. Good luck with that.

dreadnaught - let's admit
I never called you a Democrat, I said you were using Democrat or DNC talking points.

If you are a Republican and want a future Republican President or Republican Congress I don't see how John and his Amnesty of 20 million POOR illegal invaders is good for the future of the Republican party.

You have yet to offer any FACTS on why I am wrong except to claim I am exaggerating.

You do need to face facts, unfortuantely it is you who apparently is not amenable to reason.

I have explained the Amnesty facts as plain as possible and yet you don't want to accept that McCain's election and Amnesty will lead to the end of the Republican Party's chances to lead this country in the future.

The USA is at a crossroads, one way leads to DEMOCRAT (Socialism) rule for the rest of our LIVES.

ONLY if we elect enough Conservative Republican Senators and Congressman can we stop this Democrat rule Amnesty. McCain has already said he will sign Amnesty if it crosses his desk.

If Amnesty passes, I will start working with my local city and state to start our own independant state like Kosovo just did.

Good times?

Seems a few Conservatives will never vote for McCain.

Even more are holding their vote until they see a Conservative VP picked.

That VP pick may be the do or die for McCain.

a pilgrim sure knows the score
Bravo, Pilgrim;

Yeah-- the simon-pure conservatives here; together with all thei gurus on talk radiom swear they won't back our GOP candidate if we nominate McCain. O ye of litte faith !

In less time than it takes to say McShamnesty; we'll see the Democrats in power. First, they'll insure that the 4,000 American dead & many more lamed in Iraq's liberation will have died in vain. --And McCain is a military supporter and hero ! Oh, well Who cares ?

It's much more urgent to kick out the POOR illegal immigrants PRONTO if not right away! (What's God have to do with it? We don't have to consult HIM !)

Because a couple of Supreme Court seats are likely to be vacant soon; Democrats in Congress will give America a couple more ***Death-to-the Unborn*** Justices-- which Obammy is sure to nominate; instead of McCain (curse him!)And before long; we'll have a law making it a crime to fire a gun, (OWN BUT NEVER FIRE) or spank your child. We won't have any right to prosecute Democrat crooks if they're African Americans like the President. Hell-- Don't vote for McCain !

ex-Wyomingite:
What is your Shangri-La, your DREAM news system that will replace the old sources?

The reason that news programs are losing viewers are because of the multiplicity of sources you dingbat (sorry for the "dingbat"; I'm in a combative mood). The news "PIE" is now being sliced up between television & magazines & newspapers & the internet & terrestrial radio & satellite radio & about 800 freaking cable channels.

OF COURSE Nightly News programs are going to lose shares. In the 1950's there were THREE FREAKING STATIONS (ABC, NBC, CBS). I've (largely) stopped reading newspapers too. It's not because I despise the LA Times or NY Times. It's because I've found other adequate (convenient) ways to obtain information.

All I know is: since the rise of the fabled "alternative media" sources, political discourse has deteriorated & people are less informed & more superstitious & more politically hostile. Thank your guru Rush Limbaugh for that. He is truly un-american in that he's shafted the political landscape. I hope it's not long until he rests in peace.

Barack Obama can restore some honestly & civility back into the discourse.

brett; let's admit
Brett--

I have to face a fact. You aren't in any way amenable to reason. So; I mot as well make my points elsewhere. Especially since you insult me by saying I'm a Democrat. A final thought. You say:
"
Enforce the immigration LAWS now and for the next 20 years and then we can TALK about NEW laws to solve ANY remaining problems."

Let's do what you say, then. With NO Republican in the White House, the majorities in Congress perrennialy Democrat, thanks to disenchanted Anti-Republicans;

These will be today's ethnic voters who'll go on to elect the following 20 years' Democrat candidates. YOU & me won't "talk" --as much as they and the Democrats will TALK, while we listen.


brett; let's admit
Brett--

I have to face a fact. You aren't in any way amenable to reason. So; I mot as well make my points elsewhere. Especially since you insult me by saying I'm a Democrat. A final thought. You say:
"
Enforce the immigration LAWS now and for the next 20 years and then we can TALK about NEW laws to solve ANY remaining problems."

Let's do what you say, then. With NO Republican in the White House, the majorities in Congress perrennialy Democrat, thanks to disenchanted Anti-Republicans;

These will be today's ethnic voters who'll go on to elect the following 20 years' Democrat candidates. YOU & me won't "talk" --as much as they and the Democrats will TALK, while we listen.


Spiritual Reason
Re: coffee260 'McCain is more like chemotherapy in that the side effects greatly out weigh rejecting it. John McCain makes you sick but you know eventually the sickness will recede and life will go on.'
Plumber:2:03"Chemo is only viable on people with otherwise healthy bodies. People with already compromised immune systems who then take chemo not only STILL die, but the remaining months of their lives are miserable because of chemo's side effects.

"The Dems have $35M in the bank, the GOP has $6M. The GOP has a severely compromised immune system. Putting the party on McChemo only makes the death slow and painful"

Me I say: If we die, we die! Queen Esther and her maidens, facing the legislated death of her people, fasted and prayed to God who loves us. She understood and went forth to do what she had to do. She appealed to a terrible king who had signed their death warrant. If displeased by her bold behavior he would have had her put to death. God gave her a win. Her people were saved, their enemies died horribly.
Vote pro-life here, save the little people. McCain's not the king in this story, God's providence is. We do not deserve God's mercy but He always gives it if we humble ourselves before Him and ask for mercy. We can't be so proud that these other issues are of greater importance than the protection of the preborn innocents who die by the thousands each day in this nation at the hands of abortionists. Are we to become completely deserving of defeat by throwing this man McCain onto the trash heap. God didn't always give us easy choices. The innocent little people (preborn babies) must be your priority. They are your grandchildren, your nephews, nieces, your sons and daughters, your brothers and sisters, and will be your children's best friends. God have mercy.

Brett
What freaking planet are you living on? WHO is going to round up & deport 20-some-odd million illegal aliens & send them home? Since most will not go willingly (as we have "allowed" them to live & work here for many years & develop roots & raise - legal US - children) we would be forced to round them up like Nazis rounding up the Jews.

Remember: We've TURNED A BLIND EYE for three decades. Dating back to (& before) your annointed Saint Ronald Reagan.

That "deport" argument isn't flying, dude. It crashed & burned. That's why sensible people are thinking of ideas about immigration that exclude the millions already here that we ALLOWED to stay in the first place by using them to pick our lettuce & mow our yards & pack our meat & clean our houses... & then SUDDENLY we became outraged that they were here when the republican party had no other issues to run on (especially since gay marriage started to fizzle as an issue).


ex-Wyomingite..Your theory has even more
Contempt for the ordinary American!...

Shame on you for advocating their choice of candidate to be motivated simply by choosing the most un-Bush candidate available. :)

You know, I'm really trying... continued
Dang fat fingers... It's HIS NAME for Pete's sake!! Not our fault it's muslim. Is he ashamed of it? This is just like when McCain defended Kerry against the Swift Boat Veterans. I just need to turn off the TV, the computer, and the radio and stuff cotton in my ears until after the election so this idiot won't insult me into actually not voting against the communist Obama.

Come on John. How about meeting us half way here? Some of us are really trying...

ex-Wyomingite..Mrs Paddy is no elitist !
she is however...
Quite Elite IMHO :)

You know, I'm really trying...
I'm really doing my best to try to like McCain. But the man just keeps doing stuff that makes me mad. When he dissed that conservative guy the other day for using B. Hussein's middle name, I suddenly got a pain in my eye. I think it was the phantom finger of McCain. What the heck is wrong with using B. Hussein's middle name? It's

dreadnaught - promises, promises
You wrote:
"But it should NOT say that. By limiting the influx to those already established here, and warning others the NEW border plan is to stop illegal immigration; a warning with TEETH"

This is what the Democrats promised in 1986 with the first Amnesty. They promised to put TEETH in the enforcing the NEW immigration LAWS.

Didn't happen then when there were only 1.2 to 2 million illegals, why do you believe them now?

REWARDING those 1.2 to 2 million illegals has DIRECTLY lead to 12 to 20 million illegals NOW.

Your point of REWARDING another 20 million illegals for another PAPER promise made by backstabbing politicians just does not fly.

Enforce the immigration LAWS now and for the next 20 years and then we can TALK about NEW laws to solve ANY remaining problems.


Sorry dreadnaught
Sorry REWARDING lawbreakers is NEVER the better way.

What is the hurry? Republicans will ONLY get 10 to 20% of the POOR vote. Democrats get 80 to 90% percent. Why rush and ensure Democrat rule?

Why not enforce the Immigration LAWS even if it takes 20 years to enforce the LAW?

We let this problem go unenforced for 20 years, let us enforce it now for 20 years to see if enforcement works. We can talk about Amnesty 20 years from now if true enforcement doesn't work.


dreadnaught - are you working for DNC?
you said:
"McCain is being pilloried and rejected by Republicans they see as Mexico-bashers--"

95% of what I see Conservatives pillory McCain for is his maverick (spoiled brat) backstabbing and siding with LIBERALS like Ted Kennedy to pass LIBERAL laws. Therefore Conservatives reason that they cannot TRUST McCain to not backstab them if he wins this election.

Unless you are working for the DNC, I suggest you drop quoting Democrat talking points that Republicans are "Mexico-bashers". Remember it is the Free Trade Republicans who passed NAFTA to help the Mexican economy not the Democrats in Congress.


Mrs Paddy
Do you ever think that sometimes facts just seem to get in the way of some peoples thinking?

Reply to Brett:
"It says DO whatever you have to do to get inside the USA illegally because they will NEVER enforce their immigration laws if you can get inside the country (even if done illegally)."

Again, your doomsday scenario. But it should NOT say that. By limiting the influx to those already established here, and warning others the NEW border plan is to stop illegal immigration; a warning with TEETH,

As well as heightened deportation; fines for offenders, and not allowing extended family to join up on this side-- the situation could truly be "COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM,

And;

Anyway: You maintain that 20 million are in line, legally waiting to enter. What happens when THESE immigrants send for their families legally ? Does their population decline ? NO--

And who wins their VOTES, because our GOP allowed itself to alienate a whole ethnic group just for "principles ?--" McCain's way is better-- we bite the bullet and help our party without delay.

Mrs. Paddy
If the news media is "slanted" it is because that is what the public wants. And in a "free" capitalistic society, using advertising dollars as the measure for success, the public is getting exactly what it's paid for.

Between you & I, using the average Townhall reader as a predicter, americans do not want in-depth, non-biased news reporting. People want commentary that is going to prop up partisan political viewpoints already held. Maybe the U.S. is more left-leaning than you think. If we have a news system out there that many of you squeamish refer to (reflexsively) as a "MSM", it's because THE AMERICAN PUBLIC BOUGHT & PAID FOR IT & CONTINUES TO PAY FOR IT via advertising support.

You put together a television news program that right & left can rally behind that is something different than the Nightly News programs. And just see how far your idea takes you when it all comes down to ratings. I think "60 Minutes" does a fine "non-biased" job of presenting news stories & drawing upwards of 18 million viewers a week (always in the top 20 programs).

The elephant in the room, of course, is that while some people decry the "mainstream media", the truth of the matter is that the ALTERNATIVE MEDIA is significantly worse. But nobody wants to talk about this because then they may not be able to use the phrase "mainstream media" as a politically-charged hack pasrtisan phrase anymore. But internet "news" sites are the true dumbing-down of American politics.

2 million felons ?
Even were this number proven; Brett--

It has no bearing on all I've stated above.

We likely number 10 million felons who AREN'T illegal immigrants in this country of 33 million. I hope all of them go to jail. The illegals first.

It can't change the fact that we'll soon lose every election to those panderers on the left, because we were too hidebound to change our political stance vis a vis hispanics and Mexican-Americans. (They see every move we make; and now they see clearly that our most promising GOP candidate, McCain is being pilloried and rejected by Republicans they see as Mexico-bashers--) WHY ? Cause he doesn't hate Mexicans; and makes it quite clear ! OUR party has to change their mind-set, now, and together ! For our own good !

come on dreadnaught - part 2
Now if we give Amnesty to the 12 to 20 million illegals that are already here, what does that tell the 20 million who have been waiting in line for over 5 years?

It says DO whatever you have to do to get inside the USA illegally because they will NEVER enforce their immigration laws if you can get inside the country (even if done illegally).

Now you have 20 million Amnestied illegals + 40 million POOR family members + 20 million more illegals from around the world, and bingo that equals 80 million (20+40+20) in just a couple of years.

In 5 to 10 more years illegals could easily top 100 million and Democrats (Socialists) will RULE for the rest of our LIVES.

come on dreadnaught
The math is easy.

Amnesty in 1986 given to 1.2 to 2 million illegals.

20 years later the number of illegals is estimated at 12 to 20 million illegals.

An increase of 10 times.

If you give Amnesty to 20 million illegals, they are allowed by law to bring their parents, children, and other relatives.

So if each Amnesty person just brings 2 people more into the USA, you now have 40 million more POOR people who will VOTE for the Democrats and the FREE Handouts like welfare, subsidized housing, education, etc...

I am not exaggerating. You may not agree but do you really want to take the chance.

If I am right you will NEVER see a Conservative President or Republican Congress again in our LIFETIMES.

will
There is plenty of guilt to spread around. Yes, I include Fox in the MSM. All the major networks, CNN etc. etc. etc.

How in depth do you think the average American gets to inform themselves? How many actually go to the candidates' web sites, or inform themselves from a variety of sources?

The unfortunate thing is that the News Media that is supposed to be un-biased is not. For pete's sake, Clinton refused to appear on the Fox news because it wasn't liberal enough!

We, the sheeple, believe that if it is in print, or on the news, it must be true.

I have thought it through. There is no explanation for McCain's rise to the top except we have been manipulated by the media with phrases such as "electablility" and "moderate" and 'crossing the aisle to cooperate'

When is the last time you heard anything substantive from any political candidate? For a culture that is obsessed by Britney Spears and the latest crime of passion that makes Greta Van Susteren's show, why would anyone think that the news media is anything other than slanted?


dreadnaught - at least 2 million felons

BTW, there are at least 2 million illegals who have committed ID fraud (a felony) by using illegal SS numbers or driver's licenses.

So the USA will have a hugh job just deporting the 2 million felons. That is why we have to allow YEARS to force ALL ILLEGALS to LEAVE and get in line just like everybody else is LEGALING doing.


come on, brett !

"I have heard LIBERALS constantly ACCUSE Conservatives of being mean because we believe in the rule of law and requiring it to be enforced. Otherwise, anarchy and chaos ensue."

My reply: --Same is the norm on our Right: Constant screams about the ungodly evil of illegal immigration; heard on talk radio, which is COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE, Brett. It cost us (GOP) the 2006 mid-term election. People left & left of center can't help seeing us as intolerant racists !!!

You add: --"For example, if tomorrow the USA says Amnesty for all illegal invaders both current and future, --" --That's not true ! Nobody's expecting something repeated "tomorrow"----

"it is obvious that 20 million POOR illegals today will be 100 million POOR is less than 5 years."

I refuse to go along with that kind of insanity unless we get rid of welfare and social security, which will never happen.

I refuse to indulge in dooms-day scenarios like the one you make out now. That's REALLY over-the-top.

"it is obvious that 20 million POOR illegals today will be 100 million POOR in less than 5 years." --Are you losing your senses ? NOTHING LIKE THAT IS OBVIOUS.




For example, if tomorrow the USA says Amnesty for all illegal invaders both current and future, it is obvious that 20 million POOR illegals today will be 100 million POOR is less than 5 years.

I refuse to go along with that kind of insanity unless we get rid of welfare and social security, which will never happen.

This is the real John McCain.
Incompetent manager of campaign funds. Player of both sides of the public campaign funds fence. Situational ethicist. Patron of lobbyists. One-sided civil conversationalist.

In addition to these points brought up by Will in this article, look at how he has fired and fallen back on Iraq this week. He comes out stating that his ability to win the Presidency depends on his ability to convince the American people that Iraq was a necessary war. Then, after the 'reviews' come in negative, he backs off.

Then, after Bill Cunningham, a good solid conservative, does him the favor of firing up the crowd in Cincinnati as McCain's aides asked him to, McCain takes the stage and, without even having heard Cunningham's remarks, decries them and throws Cunningham under the bus.

You can't expect "straight talk" from a guy who talks out of both sides of his mouth, who believes he alone is entitled to have everything both ways, who doesn't abide by the same standards he demands of others, and who brags about his alleged fiscal responsibility while his own campaign's funding is a fiscal and legal disaster.

But we're all supposed to vote for him in the spirit of party unity; that same party unity that McCain himself has spent the last seven years disdaining and basking in the glow of MSM praise he got for doing so.

Do as he says everyone, not as he does.

Puke.

dreadnaught - good to hear it
Glad you voted for Reagan.

Enforcement thru Attrition. Read about it at NumbersUSA.com.

I don't care if it takes 20 years but EVERY person who has come into the USA ILLEGALLY must LEAVE and go back to their home country.

Otherwise, Amnesty like in 1986 makes the problem worse.

We don't even need a FENCE IF we just enforce the LAWS and REQUIRE every ILLEGAL to leave even if it takes 20 years.

McCain Corruption
It will make no difference which of the two or three leading candidates is elected president. Any one of the three will be an absolute catastrophe. McCain will bring some special psychological problems with his unique case of megalomania. Both major parties will face significant embarassment from the candidate they nominate and elect. I want the Democrats to be the ones who suffer the most embarassment. I question if the Republican party will survive a McCain presidency. He makes RMN look like a stable, rational person.

dear brett:

I commend you on the way you debate, decently without outrage and spite. That is a real American.

I'm a Republican since Reagan's era; I loved the man. Never (except once--JFK) have voted any other ticket. I'm proud to say it; and I think Geo Bush is a great man, I respect Cheney-- and anybody who doesn't, I say --Up yours !

I'm Pro-Life-- also anti-Gay Marriage (legislation) and pro-military. Needless to say, a free market supporter, and demand a Supreme Court that is NOT politicized.

And no--I do not think any illegal may abuse our system with impugnity.

Now the problem: It seems to me there's no practical way of deporting the millions already settled here; except for ALL illegals arrested for a felony. There is NO place for them in this country.

I disagree that the 12 million have in any way destroyed our infrastructure. That many is a drop in the bucket; as long as they're gainfully employed. We ought to pass laws limiting their easy access to services such as health care-- and in most cases education. Laws that will require them to PAY for those services.

Of course there is NO way we can allow the border to remain as porous as it's been for too long ! Pay whatever's necessary to plug the holes; and hire more border agents. Equip them w/every technological advance we can muster. And: WARN the incoming offenders; we'll deport you. PLUS: Repeat offenders spend time in state prison. Mandatory. Most would reconsider the clear risk of returning.

I'm back now
I see the post where I am arrogant because I feel that certain people shouldn't have an "R" after their name. Can someone please tell me why we are supposed to be Republican? Isn't Republican supposed to be conservative?

How is McCain Republican other than the "R" after his name? - please tell me.

Mrs. Paddy
How, exactly, so you define the MSM?

People sling around the words "mainstream media" like they do the words "activist judges". There is no precision; it becomes merely a voodoo or "gotcha" incantation.

Is Fox News a part of the MSM? Or are they "seperate"? Is the talk-show radio circuit (Sean, Rush, Laura, Dennis, Michael, Hugh) part of the MSM.... or is it, as a whole, "seperate"? How about 60 Minutes? The Wall Street Journal op-ed page? Lou Dobbs? NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams? How about Townhall.com?

Actually, I think we can safely exclude Townhall from the "MSM" umbrella. Reactionary, misinformed posters are the rule here, not the exception.

Please, Mrs. Paddy, break down the culture & let me know WHO exactly is the
"mainstream media" (would Bill O'Reilly qualify? Merideth Viera? Newsweek Magazine? The National Journal? The New York Times Review of Books? A presidential news conference?)

Thank you (I'm only asking this because it's fairly obvious you have not thought this through).

dear brett:

I commend you on the way you debate, decently without outrage and spite. That is a real American.

I'm a Republican since Reagan's era; I loved the man. Never (except once--JFK) have voted any other ticket. I'm proud to say it; and I think Geo Bush is a great man, I respect Cheney-- and anybody who doesn't, I say --Up yours !

I'm Pro-Life-- also anti-Gay Marriage (legislation) and pro-military. Needless to say, a free market supporter, and demand a Supreme Court that is NOT politicized.

And no--I do not think any illegal may abuse our system with impugnity.

Now the problem: It seems to me there's no practical way of deporting the millions already settled here; except for ALL illegals arrested for a felony. There is NO place for them in this country.

I disagree that the 12 million have in any way destroyed our infrastructure. That many is a drop in the bucket; as long as they're gainfully employed. We ought to pass laws limiting their easy access to services such as health care-- and in most cases education. Laws that will require them to PAY for those services.

Of course there is NO way we can allow the border to remain as porous as it's been for too long ! Pay whatever's necessary to plug the holes; and hire more border agents. Equip them w/every technological advance we can muster. And: WARN the incoming offenders; we'll deport you. PLUS: Repeat offenders spend time in state prison. Mandatory. Most would reconsider the clear risk of returning.

dreadnaught - you sound like a liberal
You wrote:
dreadnaught writes: Thursday, February, 28, 2008 3:16 PM

"Just as an aside-- WE on the conservative RIGHT caused the massive drift of hispanic voters into the arms of Ted Kennedy and Hillary-- by constantly seething and fuming against the evils of poor peons DARING to invade this land illegally. The furious harping on it was to me reminiscent of 1930s Germany; when Nazis cursed the Jews publicly and incessantly--"

I have NEVER heard ANY mainstream Conservative on TV or on townhall, seeth or fume against the poor illegals.

I have heard LIBERALS constantly ACCUSE Conservatives of being mean because we believe in the rule of law and requiring it to be enforced. Otherwise, anarchy and chaos ensue.

For example, if tomorrow the USA says Amnesty for all illegal invaders both current and future, it is obvious that 20 million POOR illegals today will be 100 million POOR is less than 5 years.

I refuse to go along with that kind of insanity unless we get rid of welfare and social security, which will never happen.


Brett 2:10
I agree with much of what you say I'm registered Republican but consider myself conservative first. I cannot in good conscience vote for Mccain I consider him a liar and back stabbing individual who will take a sharper turn left than he already has as soon as he gets the nomination. He will pander to whomsoever will praise him and keep him in the spotlight. I do not believe he will be any better at President than osama or hillary and will lead this nation in the wrong direction as much as they would. I also could never vote for either of them.

Most LEGAL hispanics are opposed
In Arizona, Most LEGAL hispanics voted last year to fine business who hire ILLEGALS.

Where are you getting your bad information that most LEGAL latinos favor rewarding ILLEGAL latinos to come and take their low paying jobs away from them?

Too late
We have already conceded to the lefties...that's how McCain arose from the ashes of his campaign.

The GOP is being manipulated by the globalists and open border crowd. I don't know any Legal Immigrants that are happy about amnesty for those here illegally.

Of course, if the MSM says it, it must be true.

dreadnaught - why are you a Republican?
why are you a Republican?

What issues make you vote for the Republican instead of the Democrat?

BTW, I have never said to round up anyone. I favor Attrition like Huckabee where Illegals are given time to leave ( I am OK if it takes them a year or two), so they can sell their houses and pay their fines for illegally using SS numbers (ID fraud).

However, they must return to their home country and get in line just like all of the other 20 million immigrants who are waiting LEGALLY in line.

Why do you favor rewarding their illegal behavior? If we allow them to stay WHY is that FAIR to the 20 million immigrants that are LEGALLY waiting in line for over 5 years?

Is it your position that the USA should allow EVERYBODY to come here without waiting legally in line?


must clarify a point
Let me clarify better what I meant in:

"Why are hispanics supposed to flock to the polls and vote for those who openly denigrate and hate them ? (Not all of us, but mostly the ostensibly "conservative wing of the GOP--")

At least they won't blame
"Juan McCain," for that hate speech, I would think. Many hispanics may vote for him-- snce he han't been FURIUS at the mention of an amnesty solution."

HERE I clarify, I mean LEGAL hispanic voters; I know illegals are quite justly supposed to face deportation, not the polls.

But America's legal, voting hispanics & Mexican Americans-- definitely resent our hate speech against those illegals.

It has to be offensive to them, blood is thicker than water, after all. I think we have to court the legal hispanic vote; it's more crucial to the GOP now than ever before. It's become a very important voting bloc; we CAN'T just forever concede it in one lump--to the Lefties !

Can't agree
with George on this one. McCain has not gained the support or acceptance of any conservatives I know.

dreadnaught
So, you identified how McCain got the nod. He's the only Republican that can court the Hispanic vote. Who'd a thunk it?

Brett, MY FRIEND
I didn't mean fiend-- I meant friend, sorry.

"Look at the percentage of POOR hispanics who currently vote for DEMOCRATS, it is like 80 to 90% for the DEMOCRATS.

So if 12 to 20 million NEW POOR illegal invaders get the RIGHT to VOTE they will VOTE 80 to 90% for FREE HANDOUTS offered by the DEMOCRAT politicians."

REPLY:
Yeah, it's scary. Just as an aside-- WE on the conservative RIGHT caused the massive drift of hispanic voters into the arms of Ted Kennedy and Hillary-- by constantly seething and fuming against the evils of poor peons DARING to invade this land illegally. The furious harping on it was to me reminiscent of 1930s Germany; when Nazis cursed the Jews publicly and incessantly--

But as the analogy unfolds: Were the Jews, in return for that demonization of their ethnic origin by racist Germans-- were Jews supposed to support those haters at the polls in a free (hypothetical) election ?

Why are hispanics supposed to flock to the polls and vote for those who openly denigrate and hate them ? (not all of us, but mostly the ostensibly "conservative wing of the GOP-- )

At least they won't blame
"Juan McAmnesty" for that hate speech, I would think. Many hispanics may vote for him indeed. He's an excellent alternative to Obambi~~



Brett, MY FRIEND
I didn't mean fiend-- I meant friend, sorry.

"Look at the percentage of POOR hispanics who currently vote for DEMOCRATS, it is like 80 to 90% for the DEMOCRATS.

So if 12 to 20 million NEW POOR illegal invaders get the RIGHT to VOTE they will VOTE 80 to 90% for FREE HANDOUTS offered by the DEMOCRAT politicians."

REPLY:
Yeah, it's scary. Just as an aside-- WE on the conservative RIGHT caused the massive drift of hispanic voters into the arms of Ted Kennedy and Hillary-- by constantly seething and fuming against the evils of poor peons DARING to invade this land illegally. The furious harping on it was to me reminiscent of 1930s Germany; when Nazis cursed the Jews publicly and incessantly--

But as the analogy unfolds: Were the Jews, in return for that demonization of their ethnic origin by racist Germans-- were Jews supposed to support those haters at the polls in a free (hypothetical) election ?

Why are hispanics supposed to flock to the polls and vote for those wh openly denigrate and hate them ? (not all of us, but mostly the ostensibly "conservative wing of the GOP--

At least they won't blame
"Juan McCain," for that hate speech, I would think. Many hispanics may vote for him indeed. He's an excellent alternative to Obambi~~



Here it is for those who missed it.

Paddy's Parody on Immigration
Posted by mrs paddy on Saturday, December 08, 2007 5:02:57 PM
From Steely Dan "Do it Again"

In the morning they go running
'cross the US southern border
And patrolmen cannot fire
'cause they haven't got no order
And illegals take our IDs
'cause they want to steal our nation
And the highways aren't safer
With illegal infiltration
Send them back, Jack, They're not our friends
Illegals round 'em up 'round
Back, Jack, They're not our friends.

Build a wall and they will climb it
Or they'll pay to have a guide
Don't enforce the law or border
'cause they know just where to hide
Those who hire them are evil
They exploit the poor and yearning
And less honest folk come with them
As we to our doom are learning
Send them back, Jack, They're not our friends
Illegals round em up 'round
Back, Jack, they're not our friends.

Should al Qaeda have a foothold,
And they plan to bring us sorrow
All this time we've been ignoring
Consequences due tomorrow
Congress says just let them jump the queue
And they'll be legal voters
We're the land of milk and honey
And we must not close our borders
Send them Back, Jack, they're not our friends
Illegals round 'em up 'round
Back, Jack, they're not our friends.

Brett
I believe he will have to do something like that if he expects us to vote for him. He must know how he is mistrusted,as far as we are concerned.Even dispised by some. I still say,we do have a slim chance with him. We have NO chance with the others.
Thank you for the civil dialog.This is a heartwrenching subject for me.I see so much trouble ahead for this country.I knew when the news media started talking him up,they would get their way.They helped manipulate our side.I do hate to see them win.

dreadnaught
I don't want to hug the fence. I want to hug the rule of law. Yes, they are human beings....I'm sorry that they were born outside the USA. I thank my lucky stars every day that I was blessed to be born an American.

Doesn't mean we need to ignore the law. They are here ILLEGALLY. Those who harbor, encourage, hire and otherwise enable them are also performing illegal acts.

If the immigration laws are in need of amendments...fix them. Don't just say, oh well, they're people, we can give them a pass, and let them help themselves to our social programs because they don't have a choice.

We already have hospitals closing because they cannot sustain the influx of illegals who are pressuring every system we have in this country. Just wait til we get UHC shoved down our throats.

I embrace the rule of law. Why don't you?

To me, its the economy
To me, right now, the most important issue is the economy, something that McCain himself has admitted he knows nothing about. The dollar index is currently down almost 0.70% and is at the lowest rate it has been since it was started in 1973. Gold and silver are both up even after huge gains the last couple of days. What does this mean? We are entering a period of inflation (or stagflation) similar to that seen in the 1970's. And the Federal Reserve indicated that they are planning on lowering interest rates AGAIN leading to more inflation.

The only candidate who has been talking about this consistently from the beginning is Ron Paul. He predicted what we are seeing today years ago as a result of runaway government spending and a fiat monetary system.

Here is an excellent interview where he talks about this:

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=289004&cl= 6693920&src=finance&ch=1316259



Real Republican?
I guess I have to ask myself that question. Am I a real Republican, and I also have to admit that I am not. I have never agreed with any candidate that I have voted for on 100% of every issue, yet I have ALWAYS voted for the Republican candidate because they more closely represent my values than any alternative.

Having said that, I also believe there is a point that the Party has nominated a candidate that represents values so different from mine that I cannot, and will not vote for that candidate. I reject the suggestion that I would be wasting my vote in such a case. I understand and respect those of you who have decided that you cannot, in good conscience vote for McCain.

I also understand and respect those of you who think he is the best choice given the alternative. I have not yet made up my mind. If the election was today, I would have to write in a candidate - Mitt Romney would be my choice; however, I also have said that I am hopeful (not optimistic) that McCain can, and will do something to convince me to vote for him by November. I'm not even sure what that could be at this point, but I cringe when I look at the Irish guy, O'bama, and his socialist views.

I consider my vote sacred and I need to not feel dirty the next morning after I vote.


The only reason
a third party has not been successful is because, we the sheeple, do not have the confidence to leave our security blanket. We are all part of the voting masses. No party owns our votes.

How long will we allow the MSM to play us like an old fiddle? If we continue to act like lemmings, we'll continue to get what we deserve.

everything neatly foretold ?
Brett, My fiend:

? ? ? --If McCain is not willing to sign the "Contract with Conservatives", he will move to the LEFT on even the Supreme Court nominees. --

I didn't know that.

And, naturally to you a "Contract with Conservatives" is code words for "Wipe out 12 million Mexican families, or else-- even if;

(1.) It leads to 7 or more million mortgage defaults; (ought to be good for the economy) as well as the carloans and other financial obligations assumed by the hateful, law-breaking filth from over the southern border--

(2.) who must be carried away en masse-- in what ? ? ? Semi-tractor trailers ? (Hopefully air-conditioned, to keep the mothers and kids from dying on the way home.)

(3.) So we can take all those taco shop jobs that rightfully ought to be only for WASPs ?

dreadnaught - I will explain it again
McCain signs Amnesty bill giving 12 to 20 million POOR illegal invaders a pathway to citizenship and the RIGHT to VOTE.

Look at the percentage of POOR hispanics who currently vote for DEMOCRATS, it is like 80 to 90% for the DEMOCRATS.

So if 12 to 20 million NEW POOR illegal invaders get the RIGHT to VOTE they will VOTE 80 to 90% for FREE HANDOUTS offered by the DEMOCRAT politicians.

Take Texas. Currently we are a RED state that has voted for the Republican candidate for President for the last 30 years. There are over 2 million illegal invaders currently in Texas.

If you give them the vote in Texas, Texas will turn into a Blue Democrat state and this will help guarantee that the President will be a Democrat for the rest of our LIFETIMES.

Please tell me where I am wrong in my analysis.

Rowly - vote your conscience
I will vote mine.

If McCain will compromise and sign the "Contract with Conservatives", I will compromise and vote for him.

Trust him never.

That is why his signature on the "Contract with Conservatives" is my litmus test.

If he cannot bring himself to sign the "Contract with Conservatives", how can we trust him after he is elected not to betray us again.

make the whole point, brett
McCain = Amnesty = No Conservative Republican Congress EVER again ~~

Please show me how this bad formula was concocted --as if it weren't from the Right-wing extreme edge; egged on by the Hot Talk gurus --

I'm willing to be informed how, if you'll explain. (Lay it on me, Baby !)

dreadnaught - to conclude
If McCain is not willing to sign the "Contract with Conservatives", he will move to the LEFT on even the Supreme Court nominees.

You obvious have not looked at his voting record. He voted YES to approve Ruth Bader Ginsburg as a Supreme Court Justice. Ginsburg had been the Chief Counsel for Planned Parenthood. She was NOT qualified to be a Supreme Court Justice because she believes in "legislating from the bench".

How does McCain the "conservative" explain that vote if he is really pro-life?

Brett
It is good for the Republican Party because that is what we have to deal with. Unless there is some way to derail him before the convention.If he is the nominee, we have to face it. Stay home on election day is a vote for democrats. If you vote for Ron Paul or any other also rans,it is a vote for Democrats.Maybe you can live with AIDING the election of HRC or BHO,but I ,in all sincerity, cannot. I did not WANT him,did not VOTE for him,but if he is the nominee,I will.Maybe we can "hold his feet to the fire"to make him keep his promises about the border,etc.He will,after all be beholden to us.It is the lesser of the two evils. Supreme Court picks are the main reason for me. George Bush is a disappointment to me,maybe McCain will be no less so.

brett; to conclude
Right now, few pundits are concentrating hard on the two salient things above mentioned. The MAIN thing stoking the flames id this unholy illegal immigration spat.

McCain is purported by the Right-edge fringe-- to be the scout and enabler for every illegal entrant who plans to "take over our country," or "destroy our culture" by your estimations. That is a big krock and bull story sold the public by YEP--You guessed it: Rush, Sean, Laura, Lee Rogers, Melany Morgan, and many other self-appointed gurus on talk radio. THIS IS ALL SMOKE !

As for the Paddy poster:

No--not a plague lady. Human beings; and an amnesty is not about to kill anybody. Go back and HUG your FENCE.


dreadnaught - No Republican Congress
You missed my WHOLE point.

McCain = Amnesty = No Conservative Republican Congress EVER again in our LIFETIME.

Therefore, why vote for McCain?


brett; to conclude
Right now, few pundits are concentrating hard on the two salient things above mentioned. The MAIN thing stoking the flames id this unholy illegal immigration spat.

McCain is purported by the Right-edge fringe-- to be the scout and enabler for every illegal entrant who plans to "take over our country," or "destroy our culture" by your estimations. That is a big krock and bull story sold the public by YEP--You guessed it: Rush, Sean, Laura, Lee Rogers, Melany Morgan, and many other self-appointed gurus on talk radio. THIS IS ALL SMOKE !

As for the Paddy poster:

No--not a plague lady. Human beings; and an amnesty is not about to kill anybody. Go back and HUG your FENCE.


dreadnaught
Yes, amnesty is a plague.

there he goes again:
Dear Mr. Brett--

Is your xenophobia and intolerance the only subject of this November's election?

SO WHAT if eventually an UGH amnesty is settled on our shoulders ?

Is it a plague?

If we fail to elect McCain, we'll forfeit the entire ball of wax and before long: Al Qaeda will have its last laugh on our armed forces; as well as making irrelevant the great sacrifices those faithful American troops have made for us. We'll have nothing but crow to eat after Obama pulls us out. As he indeed PROMISES to do !

Then--since a number of Supreme Court vagancies are practically inevitable in the short term; we'll have the SCOTUS packed with ultra-liberal Justices; just peachy keen for the ACLU, and the abortion lobby.

The Irony
is that I was the one supporting the GOP, no matter who was the candidate a few months ago. I have changed my mind.

Nobody believed that McCain could rise from the ashes of his lame campaign. Tell me, all you loyal Republicans, how did that happen?

Our political process in this country is in the dumper. McCain shares some of the blame. The only 'political voice' not silenced or at least curtailed by the McCain/Feingold travesty is the Main Stream Media.

They have decided who our candidate will be. For some reason they, and many of the powers that be in Washington on both sides of the political aisle have determined that our Open Borders is a silly issue for the American People to worry about. They seem to believe that THEY know better. So, McCain is the GOP 'pick'...even if by some miracle he would win the election, they still win.

Personally, I prefer Hillary Clinton over McCain. She, at least, is very up-front with what she wants to do. McCain is a back-stabber, and is arrogant enough to say that what he thinks is best, regardless of what we, ordinary Americans think.

McCain does not think he is morally

McCain does not think he is morally superior. He is just a spoiled military brat who graduated at the bottom of the Naval Academy class. His GPA was probably near a D. McCain will make Bush look like a genius.

He was a maverick (or spoiled military brat that your pick) who got over 100 demerits every year at the Naval Academy.

You want more proof. McCain comes back from being a POW and what does the spoiled military brat do, he commits multiple affairs (adultery) on his faithful WIFE and children who has been waiting over 5 years for his return.

Then he divorces his wife and marries one of women who he cheated with Cindy (who just happens to be from a wealthy family).

Look at his Senate career after he lost his 2000 Presidental bid. Did he work harder to prove that he was the best "Conservative" and deserved the 2008 nomination.

No, the spoiled military brat or maverick fought against his party and worked with liberals to achieve Liberal wins.

I never vote for backstabbers and betrayers. I will be voting for the US Constitution or the Libertarian candidate for President in November here in Texas.

If you vote for McCain don't complain when he stabs you Conservatives in the back again. You have been forewarned several thousands of times.



Jackie G
How is moving to the left better for the country?

Just because McCain is the GOP pick, does that make him a Republican?

I do not agree with his positions. I do not agree with the Dem positions.

I will vote my conscience. Duncan Hunter. If you believe that the GOP has maintained their platform, then go ahead and support McCain.

I Cannot. Truly, Ron Paul is a better Republican than McCain.

If you are real Republican

If you are real Republican you CANNOT vote for McCain because McCain will sign an Amnesty bill as soon as it crosses his desk.

Remember HIS Amnesty would give 12 to 20 million POOR illegal invaders (who have broken several laws) a pathway to citizenship and the RIGHT to vote for more government HANDOUTS.

These new 20 million POOR voters will vote 80 to 90% for the DEMOCRATS and that will be the end of the Republicans EVER electing a Republican President or a Republican Congress EVER again in our LIFETIMES.

So explain why voting for McCain is GOOD for the Republican Party unless you mean the New Republican Pary which is becoming the Socialist Lite party.

bobthebuilder
"I believe there are core values and principles that Republicans stand for or used to" Bob, the republican party is the party of Lincoln and has always high a high set of values and standards. To read some of this blog, Lincoln would not be conservative enough - after all he knew that working with southern democrats was the way to heal the nation - must have been a traitor according to some here. Reagan was a republican first(well, after he saw the light) - he worked his butt off trying to get Ford elected after he lost the nomination. Now someone tell me he wasn't a real conservative! Reagan was a real republican. So am I, I vote republican because it is best for the nation.

coffee260
"McCain is more like chemotherapy in that the side effects greatly out weigh rejecting it. John McCain makes you sick but you know eventually the sickness will recede and life will go on."

Chemo is only viable on people with otherwise healthy bodies. People with already compromised immune systems who then take chemo not only STILL die, but the remaining months of their lives are miserable because of chemo's side effects.

The Dems have $35M in the bank, the GOP has $6M. The GOP has a severely compromised immune system. Putting the party on McChemo only makes the death slow and painful.

Peter of NH
If these article facts are correct and I assume that Mr. Will has the ability to prove it to be true, then how can you defend McCain's moral standards?

He has trampled our 1st amendment rights through campaign reform because the appearance of lobbyists impact upon the government and then turns around accepts what he denies to others is just wrong.

His own feelings of superiority over all others are just sickening and should not be rewarded. His double standard just shows how unethical he is in reality.

No support for McCain.

ex-wyomin
I believe there are core values and principles that Republicans stand for or used to, as well as the Democrates have core beliefs that the party is base on. That is what we use to base our party affiliation. No one has to agree on every stated position, however there are certain princilples that are a must - small govt., adherence to the constitution for example.

Mrs Paddy
Conservative first, Republican second??? What the hell does that mean??? I have reviewed all political parties - there is no conservative party anywhere to be found. Perhaps they/you will start one - good luck, third parties in the United States have not done well - maybe this one will.
McCain may lose and, yikes, Obama may win but Obama won't win because I threw my vote away. This election is not about conservatives and whether they are worthwhile or not. Of course they are. As are the Evangelicals, and the moderates and, yes (gasp) the liberal Republicans. This election is about what will take place in the future - trillions of dollars in health care (where is that money); the safety of this country; cutting spending; right to life; and the Supreme Court. I don't like everything about McCain but that is also true of all the other candidates. Huck is just plain scary to me with his; "change the constitution to God's laws." That is a theocracy and we see how well that is doing around the world. In the end, there is only one choice for President. Republican and no amount of crazy will con me into not voting or voting for the deranged party. I am a Republican; I vote Republican. I will vote McCain in the primary because he is the best man for the job faults and all. It is my hope that he will be our candidate in the fall because I believe he can win. I repeat:
This election is not about conservatives or what they believe. It is about the future of this country.

eddie
You are confusing conservatives with Republicans, as if they are one and the same. They're not at all, as the GOP has moved farther and farther left in order to capture "the moderates" that they have convinced themselves win elections. By moving left to capture those voters the GOP has left conservatives behind, and to prove it they have given us the one candidate that has proven to be the most hostile towards the conservative base of the Party.

I see that you keep referencing McCain as "McPain", yet you are going to go to a voting booth and vote for him. Why? If you are so disenchanted with him that you call him "McPain" why would you willingly give him your vote? It seems that you are what my buddy BrianR has labeled an enabler of the GOP. You don't like McCain and his positions, but simply because he has an (R) behind his name, you will vote for him. You never seem to stop and think that blindly supporting a candidate that you don't even respect enough to refer to by name only ENCOURAGES the GOP to keep putting up these types of candidates! Why should they hold true to the positions that have been the GOP plank for as long as I can remember (smaller G, lower taxes, less regulation, strong national defense) if voters will support ANYONE they foist uopn them?

Maybe you don't like the fact that many conservatives refuse to support a candidate they have no respect for and that's fine. But maybe you should take a moment to figure out why YOU will.

Eddie
I don't know how old you are - but I have been a registered Republican for thirty years - and became a true conservative during the Reagan years.

Being a Republican comes second to being a conservative. I will not vote for a liberal - or almost liberal Republican. To do so and elect one gets me nothing, except the blame if things go wrong - as liberal policies are wont to do.

Nope - as stated earlier - let a real leftist Dem take the reigns in the hopes that America wakes up and re-learns the lessons she has apparently forgotten about what happens when unfettered liberalism runs amok.

The GOP needs a lesson in "tough love".

eddie
Sorry to burst your bubble. I am a Conservative first, Republican second. I've never voted for a democrat, and don't intend to vote for one in November. That is why I am not voting for McCain.

I'm not staying home. I've decided to vote for either third party (Paul) or write in Duncan Hunter.

The best thing that could happen for us would be to have a brokered convention where we might still de-rail the MSM pick: McCain.

Anyone who believes that McCain will result in anything other than a landslide defeat for the GOP is delusional.

THE ONLY issue that crosses the political aisle is immigration. NOBODY wants what McCain/Bush/and the current do-nothing, know-nothing congress has to sell on the Immigration issue.

We are screwed. Deal with it.

sorry
for spelling errors, lost my glasses

Eddie
If you vote for something you will get more of the same, history has proven that. At what point do we say enough is enough? McCain shouldn't even be in the Republican party (along with a whole hast of others).

Khomar and bobthebuilder,

not voting for McPain is the same as voting for Barack "I have no accomplishments, so what?" Obama. No real Republican would help put Barack Hussein (not Saddam) Obama in the Presidency.

So, I stand by my assertions. People who advocate defeating John McCain, if he becomes the GOP nominee, are not real Republicans. Real Republicans understand what I am saying. I will continue to call out posters who say they will not vote for McCain. I will continue to call them what they are Democrat stooges.

As Abraham Lincoln once said, "Just because you call the tail a leg does not make it a leg". Just because you call yourself Republican does not make you Republican.

Tasmanian Jedi
I like you stratagey for super Tuesday 2. All conservatives are going to have to get on the same page and work together if we are to accomplish anything.

I can understand why some are saying McCain is better than Dem. But holding our noses again is not a solution. A true Conservative candidate is the solution.

Eddie
Eddie writes
"Just remember people who post saying they will not vote for McCain in November are not Republicans. They are Democrats"

I am NOT Republican - I AM conservative and Idependent now. I MUST vote my values and go with the best choice. The GOP hasn't put up the best candidate so I must choose elsewhere.

eddie - Jumping to Conclusions
While it is possible that there are "Democrat operatives" posting on this site, you cannot just assume that they are not Republicans because they cannot stand the thought of voting for McCain. I have voted Republican in every election in which I was eligible to vote, but this year, if McCain is the nomination, I will vote third party (I would never vote for Obama or Clinton).

Quite honestly, I wonder about people like you that make bold and decisive proclamations concerning other posters. The same accusations were leveled at me saying that I am not a conservative because I oppose the Iraq War. Why is that? Does everyone have to agree with EVERY position of a party to belong to that party?

The fact is that it is impossible to make such judgment calls quickly and have any real accuracy. It takes discourse with a person to truly understand where they stand and why they believe as they do. Sadly, we seem to settle for sound-bites these days which tell you nothing that you really need to know. Quick judgments, sound-bite philosophies -- these are actively working to destroy our nation.

Republicans,

when people post on here that they will stay home in November rather than vote for McCain, know that these are Democrat shills just trying to sow division in the Republican Party. It is acceptable to call posters who say stupid things like that what they are; either too stupid to vote or Democrat operatives. Just in case new Republicans might be influenced by such stupid drivel, respond with the truth. No real Republican would act so as to elect a Democrat for President. Plus the shills will leave us alone if we stand up to them.

The Dems have won this one
An earlier poster said something to the effect of "wake me up in 2012." This sums it up in the nutshell. We now have two hard left liberals and a liberal republican one of whom will be the next president. John McCain makes my skin crawl, Obama is nothing more than a totally empty demogogue and Hillary the re-incarnation of Eva Peron---God help us!!
The only hope conservatives have is that the next 4 years will result in the next conservative revolution similar to what happened after the disastrous 4 years of Jimmy Carter.

ex-Wyomingite,

ignore the Democratic shills who post here saying they will stay home in November before voting for McPain. They are telling the truth about that. But they are lying about being true Republicans. They are not. They are Democrats trying to create division in the Republican Party. It is best just to ignore them. No true Republican would say they want a Democrat to win in November.

Too bad the anti-Republican

posters on this blog are unwilling to be honest about their allegiances!!!

True Republicans will never stay home in November so that Barack "I have accomplished nothing, so what?" Obama will win. That is pure Democrat blather. Ignore such idiot posters.

Vote for Huckabee in Texas, Ohio and Vermont!!!

Barack "I have accomplished nothing,

so what?" Obama is a flim flam man. The only conceivably good thing about an "I have accomplished nothing, so what?" Obama is that with his lack of executive experience he will accomplish even less than we fear.

Vote Huck Tue 3/4 and in early voting!
All Paul supporters & everybody else vote Huckabee! Why this strategy? Well:

During the primaries it's obvious Paul will not win. A vote for Huck is a no-confidence vote in McCain (unless it's a vote for Huck, like mine was, but follow me for a minute). Huck has to win SuperTuesday 2 ESPECIALLY in TX & OH to keep McVain from the magic number of 1,191 delegates.

Then we'll get the brokered convention we want. At that point we will work to get either Huck or Paul, anybody but McAmnesty, nominated.

And if Paul's not the nominee, you can vote for him 3rd party (if he does it).

But for now the last chance you have to save your party from the RNC/MSM nominee is to vote for Huck.

20 min at mikehuckabee.com will make you a believer.

I would also like to echo the following 2 posts from above; way to go folks!

bobthebuilder said:
Even Ron Paul is better than McCain - yes? If we vote Dem, what message does that send?

Khomar said:
Despite what the media continues to force feed us, this election is far from over...we are heading toward a brokered convention where most of the delegate votes are up for grabs. We need to make the choice to preserve freedom and save our country from greed, corruption, and lies. We need to choose Ron Paul.

eastwind
I hear ya talkin'...

McPain is head and shoulders

a better candidate than Clinton. Obama shouldn't even be in the race given his list of accomplishments and goals.

Anyone who thinks Clinton or Obama would make a better President than McPain is either a Democrat or an idiot.

Don't get me wrong. McPain is the last Republican I want nominated. I will vote for Huckabee and encourage all other Republicans to do so.

Now the Democrats will start posting about how they will stay home rather than vote for McPain or Huckabee whom they have never intended to vote for.

Just remember people who post saying they will not vote for McCain in November are not Republicans. They are Democrats. Ignore their blather. Who in their right minds would vote for Barack "I have accomplished nothing" Hussein Obama?

ex-Wyomingite
Great discourse - for once someone who presents real issues. Like you, I am bored to tears by the McJuan, he's a _____ (fill in blank) - sheesh, who says it is just the politicians who blather rhetoric. Good Job!
I, (gasp)a moderate republican of 45 years (that is voting for 45 years)will support and vote for McCain. There is simply no other choice. Not voting, while certainly is a right, is stupid; voting for the deranged party to show dissapointment in McCain is, perhaps, the most upside down thinking ever; and a write in of someone who cannot and will not win may be good for the ego but little else.
I don't agree with everything about McCain but in all the years of voting I haven't agreed 100% with anyone. He is the best choice given the choices that will sit in the oval office. Thanks for listening and, again, good job.

Chuck
Everything that you mentioned about Mccain the DEMS will do also but maybe 10 fold.

To ex-Wyomingite:

It is more serious than just four more years of liberalism in the Oval Office.

We are headed toward genuine destruction. To appease liberals, Nixon enthusiastically gave us the EPA, OSHA and Title IX.

OSHA and the EPA have NOT satisfied the eco-terrorists and earth-worshipers one iota but it has raised the cost of living over 800% since 1974.

Title IX has destroyed sexual morality college and university campuses, driven out male students, turned the males that remain into sheepish metro-sexuals and beaten K-12 boys into submissive feminist pulp.

G.W. Bush does not enforce immigration law and his father let liberals walk all over him and do whatever they wanted.

Four more years of liberlism and we're through.

One other thing:

Where does the Grand OOOOOOOllllllllddddd Party stand on the global warming hoax?

For the last month, I've been hearing our CINO/RINO governor on radio spots *DURING* Rush Limbaugh's program calling for support of Congressional global warming hoax legislation that will kill the economy and do nothing to the environment.

What's going on here!?

If the Repugnant Party has embraced the global warming hoax, its demise cannot be hastened soon enough. It's got to go!

Anyone out there got an elephant gun?

Welcome To MexiAmeriCanada

Good heavens people! What is happening here!?

McCain-Feingold and McCain-Kennedy were direct assaults on the Constitution of the United States led by John McCain and endorsed by the Republican Party. McCain has clearly broken his oath to defend the Constitution and should be tried for treason, not elected president.

A party that would allow anyone who voted for either bill to retain their membership is a party of traitors.

A party that would allow one of its members to be the primary sponsor of such horrendous destructions of the freedom of speech and rule of law (McCain-Kennedy) is a party of despots.

A party that would elevate the kind of traitor that is John McCain should not only be disbanded but should be vigorously fought and defeated.

The Republican Party is beyond redemption. Those of you who are thinking that the GOP will get the message and return to Reagan conservatism if McCain is defeated are dreamers. For cryin' out loud the idiot Elephant gave us two lousy bushes, a Republican Senate that voluntarily gave up its majority and botched its majority in the House.

And then you all refused to vote for the slimy liberal RINO bastards in the last Congressional elections and where did that get you? Huh? Nowhere, that's where!

The Republican Party is stone cold dead as an option for true conservatives. (And by the way, there is no such thing as someone who is "socially liberal but fiscally conservative". No sir, you are either conservative all the way or liberal. There's no middle ground!)

The Democratic Party is even worse.

WE NEED A NEW PARTY!!!

Feel good
With McCain's announcements that he will not be attacking Hillary or Obama in the general election, I have to assume that McCain hopes to win on the basis of his feel good life story.
He will have little to offer with regards to policy differences, and even if he did, how do you point them out without "attacking" your opponent. Does McCain really think that the Democrats and media are going to sing "Kumbaya" with him and keep things civil? If so, does he really think that voters should be making their decision on the basis of which candidate has the better feel good story?

ex-Wyomingite
NO

ex-Wyomingite
If you are tired of true conservatives writing about McCain, wait until the MSM REALLY gets in gear.

The recent NYT smear was just the first salvo and probably not even the most damaging in their arsenal.

fatherinoklahoma
Amen.

As another poster (thebigmick) on these threads often writes, I prefer the fast poison of "Liberal Straight" vs. the slow, but more deadly poison of "Liberal Lite" we'd get under a McCain administration.

khomar.....
Thanks for your contributions.....couldn't have said it better myself.

Who the f voted for this guy?
Three sectors of our economy needlessly cost every taxpayer (i.e. wagon-puller) thousands of dollars a year. Environmental extremism raises our energy and food costs by limiting supply via bureacratic stonewalling, frivolous litigation, and media propaganda. On top of that, look at all the good money being flushed down the toilet chasing after inefficient energy sources that can't stand on their own two feet in the free market.
Illegal immigration reduces wages and increases the demands and burdens of the welfare state. Not to mention the cultural problem of having 20 million people in our country that don't speak a lick of English.
Then there's healthcare. I haven't been to a hospital in years. Yet I still pay thousands of dollars every year into Medicare, Medicaid, and insurance. You will never lower the costs in the healthcare industry if you keep giving it away to the #1 consumers of it (i.e. the elderly). These are three issues that conservatives should be riding to victory with common sense, instead every politician resorts to pure demagoguery when speaking about them - especially John McCain. John McCain has no business in the Republican party, and that's all there is to it.

As much as I would like to, I can't vote
for McCain. If I'm going to get stuck with a liberal president with questionable morals and ethics, it might as well be a democrat. At least then it will be easier for Republicans to oppose the liberal president's agenda.

Gold Plated Hypocrite
Its a long way to November, I wish it were today so I could go ahead and vote for McCain before I completely pitch up every meal til November realizing that I am going to vote for this haughty hypocrite. I guess that makes me one also.

The more I learn over and above all the things that are general knowledge about McCain, the more disgusted I become. Look at the recent apologies he made for using Obama's middle name, and his usual denigrating of the person who made the comments. Republicans ain't got no freaking backbone. They are so frightened of being hit with charges of racism or sexism, etc, and the danger that their grovelings across the aisle might lose valuable 'friendships' with liberal Democrats that they are having to sit down to pee.

Well, whats the alternative? Sure ain't gonna vote for that turban.

As the dollars falls...
As the dollar continues to fall and the spotlight is shown upon McCain, Obama, and Clinton, the evidence is growing that my decision to support Ron Paul was a solid one. He is the only one out of the bunch who has been predicting the economic troubles we are experiencing since last May (actually, for the past couple decades). His character is also becoming increasingly golden when compared to the opportunistic and duplicitous nature of those around him. He has stuck to his guns through thick and thin clinging to the ideas of justice, honesty, transparency, and sound money even as the Republican Party sold themselves to the highest bidder.

Really, is there any other good choice at this point for the office of the President? Who can match Ron Paul for his character, his understanding of our financial crisis, and his steadfastness to conservative values?

He does not pander to lobbyists. In fact, they no longer try to buy him because they know that he cannot be bought. He is a true patriot who sees his position in government as an opportunity to serve the people of this great nation rather than seek personal gain. This is why he has rejected the congressional pension and receives no corporate campaign donations.

Despite what the media continues to force feed us, this election is far from over. McCain need not be our nomination. In fact, we are heading toward a brokered convention where most of the delegate votes are up from grabs. We need to make the choice to preserve freedom and save our country from greed, corruption, and lies. We need to choose Ron Paul.

Good Times for Who?
Certainly not for those of us who see McCain for where his heart lies and is NOT with us. Sure he says he wants to unite the party, but his actions show us different.

His HATE for True conservatives is clear and he just keeps re-enforcing his hate. He called Cristians "intolerant" (meaning hate filled) and yet he appoligizes when a persons full and proper name is used.

He has been advised poorly and will suffer accordingly. His own HATE is easy to see by everyone but himself.
When he sides with Democrats while cussing out my Senator from Texas (using the Lords name in vain more than once) because they differ on McCains Amnesty Bill, I know how much McCain wants my (conservative) support. Only when it helps him reach HIS Personal Goal, does he want our support.

For me and my house, we will NOT support Senator John Sidney McCain III in any way. Nor will we support the Democrats choice. What we are left with doing is writing a name in, which is what we are doing.

As for our Primary next week in Texas, we are voting for Huckabee.

We are giving no money to McCain or the National Republican Parties, RNC-NRCC-NRSC... we will give locally but nothing to the National's and we will do NO WORK of ANY KIND for McCain-PERIOD.

WRITING A NAME IN in NOVEMBER!!!!

Wrong!!!!!!
Yes McLame had actually gotten some conservatives, grown anxious by the statements being issued by the Stalinists in the Dem Party, where the debate is over whose Five Year Plan destroys private enterprise the fastest, to consider voting for his aged carcass. Alarm spread in the McLame campaign.
So, when that radio talker Cunningham, introduced him with a pretty standard opening speech McLame appeared and apologized for those mild criticisms of 'his Senatorial colleagues'.I actually was considering voting for this superannuated,ugly, inarticulate liberal troll but he brought me to my senses. I'm not going to vote for The Stalinist Democrats so I guess its whatever nut-ball third party amuses me the most will get my vote this time. What an inferior candidate. It will be a pleasure to watch his fifty-state loss.

Yuck
I say Bravo George, you really did get to the essence of who McCain really is: someone who holds deeply personal grudges and cannot accept that those who disagree with him may have legitimate reasons for doing so. Instead, he views them as corrupt, irresponsible, or somehow impuning his honor.

It saddens me that I have no good choice for the Presidency this year. No one talks about smaller government, really lowering taxes, or limiting federal spending. Guess I will have to concentrate on congressional races, and throw my support towards candidates that really do represent what I believe.

McCain Is Nixonian!
In my opinion he is barely less than a criminal. I can't stand him! But there is no other choice now. A thinking conservative has no option but to vote for McShame at this point. We have to face the facts. We let the libs, indies and MSM choose our candidate so now we have no choice but to vote for the best that we have left.

After this, we have to get back to work. We either have to take back our party or give it up to the independants and build a third party. It's time to put up or shut up.

independent candidate?
I cannot support McCain, I will vote third party. IMO those who are discusted with the choices we have should vote third party instead of Dem. We need to send a message to the GOP that we want real conservatives (hoping that the third party is more conservative). Even Ron Paul is better than McCAin - yes? If we vote Dem, what message does that send?

thoughts?

gf
Very witty!

I hope you are correct.

I hope he doesn't win a single state.

McCain is delusional
He thinks someone wants him to be president. Reality is going to hit him like a freight train.

Coffee260
That's a good analogy, in other words you are saying McCain is poison.
I don't know which candidate I detest the most,
I think it's a three way tie. I think God is telling us something, and if we are smart we'd listen but sometimes we have to be hit upside the head before we focus our attention. And come Nov. Americans will be hit upside the head and it's going to hurt a long time.

Neither tolerate nor embrace
I also would like to draw the line of distinction between embracing and tolerating the Old Turd.

I neither tolerate - nor embrace - him nor that Party that promotes him.

I will have to find solace in the arms of a third party.

I'm voting for McCain
In the general, for a few reasons. The war on terror, abortion and fiscal responsibility. McCain has stabbed conservatives in the back a few times, so I doubt there are many conservatives who are enthused about him. However, I think McCain genuinely loves his country, and after that Michelle Obama flap (where she indicated that, until Obama became a serious contender for President, she had not been proud of America) and the refusal to wear the flag pin, one wonders about Obama. He probably loves America, but John McCain has proven it through his military service.

Add to that Obama's call that we invade Pakistan and a few other gaffes, his refusal to vote against partial birth abortion and his suggesting various federal programs that will stick us more seriously into the red, and it's hard to NOT vote for McCain vs. Obama.

Don't get me wrong - in many ways Obama is the more attractive candidate. He is personable, smart and has a sense of humor. But I disagree with him on the issues. McCain may be a royal pain in the neck at times, but he has been consistent on some of the big issues that really matter to me. He has been wrong on some others, but better half a loaf of bread than no bread at all.

Whose embracing McCain?
I think it important to distinguish between embracing McCain and tolerating him.

To say conservatives embrace him is highly misleading in that it implies a 51% continuity. When, in fact, the only continuity between conservatives and McCain is a love country. The rest is too be seen because he can't be trusted.

When you embrace someone politically you find kinship philosophically and ideologically. Too some extent I suppose that is the case. But not with the ideologically faithful.

McCain is more like chemotherapy in that the side effects greatly out weigh rejecting it. John McCain makes you sick but you know eventually the sickness will recede and life will go on.

McCain's nomination is cancerous to a movement that thrives on ideas. He has ideas. His ideas. And one can only hope he's negotiable on them. Have a nice day.

I'm Voting Third Party
John McCain stabs the Conservatives in the back, while at the same time kissing the A**'s of the Socialist Candidates and Liberal Media.

All these Republicans keep saying that he is reaching out to the Conservatives.
WRONG!, He has rejected and disavowed Conservatives!
If elected, he would strive to destroy the whole Republican Party, which is now telling us we should come together and back him.

McCain or Obama???
Both would close GITMO Cuba.
Both would legalize 20 million Illegal aliens and give them Social Security, Food Stamps and Free Health Care.
Both would appoint Liberal Judges who would uphold McCain-Feingold and give Terrorist Miranda rights.
Both will give us an Energy Tax.

The Republican Party has rejected conservatism and Conservatives. Now they are whining that we have to come together for the good of the party.

I hope you enjoy YOUR Candidate. I'm Voting Third Party!

John McCain
McCain is an Lying, Arrogant Lying S.O.B.!

McCain is evil and spiteful!

McCain cannot wait to destroy the whole Republican Party for being too STUPID to nominate him in 2000.

McCain will appoint Judges who will uphold McCain-Feingold and give Terrorist Miranda rights.

McCain will legalize 20 plus million illegal aliens, give them social security and open the gates for another 20 plus million illegal's to come in.

McCain will tax every American for Carbon Emissions.

McCain will give the Democrats everything they want and more.

Peter from Dover NH
Ever notice that when someone writes a critique about how one person is behaving morally superior to another - the critique writer falls into the same category?

Such is your 7:15 post.

If McCain's your man - more power to you. Nevertheless, McCain's being hoisted on his own campaign finance petard - and it is a valuable lesson he should learn, but probably won't, such is his ego.

Just don't p*ss down my back and tell me it's raining.

Will you are WRONG...
It matters not what the NYT writes, we conservatives will not support him.

Today they layout another article on his birthplace.

And to think they recommended him. Why? Because they have so much crap on him they can write till November. DUH....

lives his honor?
You have GOT to be kidding. McCain is more unscrupulous than just about anyone in politics today. At least George Will does him the favor of suggesting that he is sincere. I don't, however, see any proof of this. On what basis is Will ascribing sincerity to McCain?

All too often, conservatives want to give everyone, even the opposition, the benefit of the doubt. This is the same thing as saying that people who do unsavory things are simply stupid. They couldn't have INTENDED it to turn out like this. Could they?

Conservatives Do Not Embrace McCain
These nitwit columnist who make the statement that we are now on McJaun side do not get and should jump to the other side of the aisle. As to the NY times, we supported our principals which is what we always do, NOT MCJUAN, as he does not embodie ours. If we as conservaties were to vote for him, the lazy Rinos would just move further left and we have lost our movement. Long Live Wm. Buckley

Stick to baseball George...
George, I think you should stick to baseball stories. It seems you are obsessed with moral superiority and thereby offended at McCain. This is of course because he lives his honor. You can't feel superior and it floors you.

Honorable people get confidence though testing. McCain has done this and passed. Many get really bput off not because of anything he does. The reason is that many feel bad because they measure themselves up to others.

I get inspired by him and don't feel threatened by his moral force. I don't feel less because of his success. I suggest those that are put off may want to evaluate themselves based on their own merits rather than based on comparison to others.

This way you dont have to break down others to build up your own fragile ego as Mr. Will seems compelled to do.

The whole NYT
story was a setup from the beginning. McCain should get screwed by his own law, fitting justice. Just when I thought I had heard all the bad news there was about McCain, I see this, from a conservative source, no less:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/weeklystandard/20080220/cm_weeklyst andard/themccaineconomicteam

The guy is a pure schmuck. I have often been disgusted with our presidential choices over the last 20 years but, this year takes the cake.


McCain's hypocrisy
I am so sick of seeing that smug, self-satisfied, old turd who believes himself to be the final arbiter of all that is good and evil. This is what happens when you let liberals pick your candidate.

I'm a resident of PA, and I can no longer hold my nose and pull a lever for the McCains and Specters of the world.

If he thought the Hanoi Hotel was bad, wait until the DNC unloads - he'll be begging to be poked w/ sharpened bamboo spears. And, finally, wait until they compare Obama and McCain on the dais; it's JFK and RMN all over again. Wake me up in 2012.
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