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Thursday, August 23, 2007
George Will :: Townhall.com Columnist
Waiting for September in Iraq
by George Will
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


WASHINGTON -- Come September, America might slip closer toward a Weimar moment. It would be milder than the original but significantly disagreeable.

After the First World War, politics in Germany's new Weimar Republic were poisoned by the belief that the army had been poised for victory in 1918 and that one more surge could have turned the tide. Many Germans bitterly concluded that the political class, having lost its nerve and will to win, capitulated. The fact that fanciful analysis fed this rancor did not diminish its power.

The Weimar Republic was fragile; America's domestic tranquility is not. Still, remember the bitterness stirred by the accusatory question "Who lost China?" and corrosive suspicions that the fruits of victory in Europe had been squandered by Americans of bad character or bad motives at Yalta.

So, consider this: When Gen. David Petraeus delivers his September report on the war, his Washington audience will include two militant factions. Perhaps nothing he can responsibly say will sway either, so September will reinforce animosities.

One faction -- essentially, congressional Democrats -- is heavily invested in the belief, fervently held by the party's base of donors and activists, that prolonging U.S. involvement can have no benefit commensurate with the costs. The war, this faction says, is lost because even its repeatedly and radically revised objective -- a stable society under a tolerable regime -- is beyond America's military capacity and nation-building competence, and is politically impossible given the limits of American patience.

The other faction, equal in anger and certitude, argues, not for the first time (remember the transfer of sovereignty to Iraq, Iraqi voters' purple fingers, the Iraqi constitution, the killing of Saddam's sons, the capture of Saddam, the killing of Zarqawi, etc.), that the tide has turned. How febrile is this faction? Recently it became euphoric because of a New York Times column by two Brookings Institution scholars, who reported:

"We are finally getting somewhere" ("at least in military terms"), the troops' "morale is high," "civilian fatality rates are down roughly a third since the surge began" and there is "the potential to produce not necessarily 'victory'" but "sustainable stability."

But the scholars also said:

"The situation in Iraq remains grave," fatalities "remain very high," "the dependability of Iraqi security forces over the long term remains a major question mark," "the Iraqi National Police" are "mostly a disaster," "Iraqi politicians of all stripes continue to dawdle and maneuver for position," it is unclear how much longer we can "wear down our forces in this mission" or how much longer Americans should "keep fighting and dying to build a new Iraq while Iraqi leaders fail to do their part," and "once we begin to downsize, important communities may not feel committed to the status quo, and Iraqi security forces may splinter along ethnic and religious lines."

The rapturous reception of that column by one faction was evidence of the one thing both factions share -- a powerful will to believe, or disbelieve, as their serenity requires. Consider the following from the war-is-irretrievable faction:

Rep. James Clyburn of South Carolina, House majority whip, recently said it would be "a real big problem for us" -- Democrats -- if Petraeus reports substantial progress. Rep. Nancy Boyda, a Kansas Democrat, recently found reports of progress unendurable. She left a hearing of the Armed Services Committee because retired Gen. Jack Keane was saying things Boyda thinks might "further divide this country," such as that Iraq's "schools are open. The markets are teeming with people." Boyda explained: "There is only so much you can take until we in fact had to leave the room for a while ... after so much frustration of having to listen to what we listened to."

In the other faction, there still are those so impervious to experience that they continue to refer to Syria as "lower-hanging fruit." Such metaphors bewitch minds. Low-hanging fruit is plucked, then eaten. What does one nation do when it plucks another? In Iraq, America is in its fifth year of learning the answer.

Petraeus' metrics of success might ignite more arguments than they settle. In America, police drug sweeps often produce metrics of success but dealers soon relocate their operations. If Iraqi security forces have become substantially more competent, some Americans will say U.S. forces can depart; if those security forces have not yet substantially improved, the same people will say U.S. forces must depart. Furthermore, will the security forces' competence ultimately serve the Iraqi state, or a sect?

Petraeus' report will be received in the context of his minimalist definition of the U.S. mission: "Buying time for Iraqis to reconcile." The reconciling, such as it is, will recommence when Iraq's parliament returns from its month-long vacation, come September.

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About The Author
George F. Will is a 1976 Pulitzer Prize winner whose columns are syndicated in more than 400 magazines and newspapers worldwide.
 
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Iraq
Iraq reminds me of New Orleans, kind of like a welfare state, no one wants to take responsibility and everything is screwed up.

Waging a war of aggression
The idea of waging a war of aggression is un-American.

Genuine conservatives like Patrick Buchanan have been pointing that out even before Bush began his Mussolini-style Libya war against Iraq.

Bush should stop reading children's stories about goats and view "Lion of the Desert". It unintentionally explains a lot about why Bush is going to lose in Iraq.

Nuff said
"Rep. James Clyburn of South Carolina, House majority whip, recently said it would be "a real big problem for us" -- Democrats -- if Petraeus reports substantial progress."

What is good for America is bad for dems. It has always been, is, and always will be that way.

They NEED poverty, they NEED crime, they NEED racism, they NEED natural disasters, they NEED misery.

Misery = victims and the dems cannot survive without victims to exploit.

What happens next?
I am as frustrated as anyone with Iraq and especially with the Maliki government. OK, so we leave. What happens then? Is there any doubt that Iran takes over? Iran is already running a lot of it with their Shiite influence. The Maliki government is mostly Shiite, and that is important over there for those who don't know it. If it wasn't for the aftermath, i.e. throwing the Middle East under Iranian control, I'd say get out now.

As for the public...I could care less what the ignorant believe. They know little and care less. Take a look at this survey.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070822064927.3gb131i5&show_article=1

That's what the Dems are counting on by making emotional appeals.



warren small
1. I doubt if you know the itenerary of those journalists while in Iraq, but your statement certainly dismisses out of hand their credibility as journalists. why? do you have an agenda requiring you undermine even those with mildly positive assessments about Iraq? HMMMM???
2. you obviously have established your own definition of "victory" when it comes to the debate on Iraq; I need not embrace it as my own. we have been given the goal in Iraq; "timetables and paths" are theoretical in warfare of any type and therefore meaningless. I would have preferred the "coopting" of Saddam, but that is not the course we followed. as for cause, all there in belief at the time...any dispute is dishonest.
3. prior Congressional approval was obtained, and too much time was wasted seeking UN approvals; exactly where have you been, "Rip"?
4. "buying time" is not simply for Maliki, but for the people too get too tired of the terror to embrace it further because only when the people have had enough will the insanity end. the end game has always been up to the Iraqi people. even I give it a slim hope, but we got them to where they are today, and we should shoulder our responsibilities to the last tether.
5. pure rhetorical blather.
5.
5.

We've Seen This Before...
Well.

Americans were certain the war was lost and futile back in the summer of 1864 (before Sherman took Atlanta) and we know how that turned out.

Americans were certain there would be no bad consequences if we left SE Asia in 1973. I guess the millions of boat people and the Khmer Rouge (who were so damn bad the North Vietnamese had to go kick them out) were of no consequence.

Look the choice is simple: Either we gut it out in Iraq until we get things working peacefully there or we come home and surrender the entire center of the oil world to a civil war between Muslim sects. I prefer to stay put and kill Jihadists on their own soil until the Muslim world decides to civilize itself.

Richard:
"Look the choice is simple: Either we gut it out in Iraq until we get things working peacefully there or we come home and surrender the entire center of the oil world to a civil war between Muslim sects. "

I don't believe it's an 'either/or' proposition. We lost in Vietnam but still defeated Communism. (and stop blaming America for Pol Pot!) We could lose in Iraq and still successfully fight Islamic terrorism. Since war supporters are fond of WWII analogies, try this one: FDR didn't even try to defend the Phillipines in 1942 because he knew they weren't defensible. We regrouped and eventually defeated the Japanese.

Warren Small and the "pony tailed guy."
Like the pony tailed guy, Warren Small wants the president to treat us as his children and explain it all to him. He pleads that his understanding of our problem and its possible solution is beyond his childlike understanding and wants his “daddy” the President explain it all to him.

Why is it I never had that problem?
For the rest, go here:
http://moneyrunner.blogspot.com/2007/08/looking-to-daddy-for-anwerand-not.html

WHOSE report?
Apparently, the so-called "Petraeus Report" will be written by the White House.

Talk about the spin factor...

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/12548.html


Bush: Don’t let Iraq be a Vietnam?


A big problem with Bush comparing Iraq to Vietnam is Nixon, Kissinger admitted Vietnam was unwinnable.

DNW- Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger admitted to each other privately that it was “impossible” to win the Vietnam War, yet called Democrats the “party of surrender” for wanting to pull out, according to a new book.

“Using language that has a painfully contemporary echo,” Nixon and Kissinger talked tough on Vietnam in public while secretly preparing to withdraw, according to historian Robert Dallek.
“In Saigon the tendency is to fight the war to victory,” Nixon told Kissinger as early as 1969, Dallek writes, “but you and I know it won’t happen - it is impossible.”

Nevertheless, the two agreed they should label the Democrats “the party of surrender” even as they maneuvered for a withdrawal, Dallek writes in “Nixon and Kissinger: Partners in Power.”

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/bush-dont-let-iraq-be-a-vietnam

Please inform yourself Pianogirl
Congress demanded that we change strategies and approved Petraeus to do what was necessary. Furthermore, they asked for a report on how Patraeus was doing. Guess who they required to make the report: The White House.

September 15th ...
... IS the day to remember for Iraq, no matter what politicians (or talking heads) say!

http://OsiSpeaks.com or http://OsiSpeaks.org

Beeblebrox: Pianogirl typifies the libs.

They read ONLY what supports their "lost cause" agenda, and twist whatever doesn't.

Wasn't it that rodent Reid who said Patraeus lied and that we were losing in Iraq even before Patraeus left The Hill last time?

We all expect at least that much from the libs...

No Surprises in the Report
The report is already written and known. As such, it will solve little. Rather, it will simply say that we have knocked down the worst of Al Queida, dealt with some elements of the militia's, and reduced the level of violence within Baghdad and in Diyala and Anwar. In turn, overall casualties are down by perhaps a third. Petraeus will propose maintaining the surge as is, and then downsize as the extra units reach the end of their tour, effectively taking us back to 130,000 troops by next summer.

However, the political process that we had hoped that the surge would encourage has taken a step backward - not forward. The two Kurdish and the Shia Dawa and SIC parties recently joined together to support Maliki wrote the constitution calling for autonomous zones. On the other side, we have the minority which includes the Secularists, Sunni's, and Sadr's party. They advocate a stronger central government.

Crocker and Gates have both put that message out there. In addition, both are saying that the animosities are greater than they originally anticipated, and that the process of reconciliation is going to take much longer than they had thought when planning the surge.

We will continue to argue and debate for another six months. If there is no political progress - and reading what Crocker and Gates have said - that doesn't seem likely - we will then debate just what our forces continue to be capable of - and how long we sustain this while waiting to see what Maliki can or cannot accomplish. One year, two years.

How long?


Thank God for Hugh Hewitt who played the
President's speech in full yesterday afternoon.

I gave up cable TV to economize, and can't get CSPAN, so I have to rely on the Talk Show guys.

NBC, CBS, and the local stations ignored the story, while ABC mostly played the negative comments about the President's words.

Why have an honest debate when you have the power to slant the news to get the result you want?

Then the fools in the MSM scratch their heads and wonder why they keep losing eyeballs to the New Media.

Here's a clue Bozos: Try Patriotism if you want loyal viewers.

Naw, doesn't fit with the Leftie Loser death wish.

Based upon comments - Why Do Anything?
I'm not in favor of all the Administrations actions, but neither are they. The most traumatic event in the history was visited upon us while our President was reading to young children,

Did he jump up and pee his pants? No he was Presidential. Then assembling all the brains he could muster around his advisory table he moved being inspired by the supposed best thinking this Nation could assimilate.

What were we to do, Nothing? We have made many blunders. I am a Korean Vet. That ended in a tie.
I know you Nam vets are not happy with your ending. Desert Storm was a half victory. So don't let folks come down on this administration and burst your bubble. We followed tradition. We have not won anything since WWII to brag about.

We are dealing with non-Americans steeped in a different moral code and a history completly different than the America Pioneer Spirit. America was built by hard working newcomers of all flavors, mostly from Europe.

That is who we are and what we know. That little island of Japan came close to injuring us deeply. They were bolstered by non European ways.

Folks who burned camel dung, lived in sand and who's morals change with the motivator are not what we understand. That part of the World has always been made up of duplicity, mystery, treachery and more negatives than I can think.

It is not Bush's fault, it is not our soldiers fault. Russia had a taste and went home limping. Where are our Allies? No one get's it. They can go home without loss of face, but not America.

What price face? What price dead soldiers?
Don Jones
MyManFred.com

Bush says this war is like 'nam
Too many soldiers being killed even after the war is won five years ago! Even Bush is now having second thoughts. So conservatives need to get their heads out of sand and bring this to an end. The morale in air force and army bases is very low due to a few remaining conversative politicians (Cheny). I am so glad Bush has been listening to people and changing is stance.

@Bridget - nice spin there.
Bush said this is like Vietnam inasmuch as the Dems want to lose it when it is clearly winnable.

The Dems have the blood of millions on their hands in the aftermath of their treachery after the Tet offensive. They want to do the same with Iraq. These are evil people who care nothing about the lives of others. All they want is to con the foolish into supporting them so they can gain more power.

THIS is the lesson of Vietnam: Never trust the Dem party to watch your back.

The Intel Report
Most of you will read the information published today on the intelligence report that is ready to be released. In essence, it indicates it will be another year and a half before we see any meaningful political resolution - and that is qualified by saying that may not happen even in this time frame. They cite the obvious, which is that the divide between the Sunni's and Shia's is growing, and the government - such as it is - seems unable to do anything about it.

This hardly jibes with Bush's statement today that victory is within reach.

The Closer We Get To September
The Louder The Police State Liberals will Screech! The more LIES they will post to Wikipedia! The more they will try to spin! Basically, Police State Liberal Democrats will be displaying their Hallmark Traits, Lying, Cheating and Cowardice.

My Advice is to buy stock in Depens. The better The Surge goes and the better The September Report is, the more Police State Liberal Democrats will soil their underwear!

Curious
I originally read this in the Post and was curious what the reaction would be here. Since the main thesis is that the Townhall crowd are self-deluded zealots I figured it would be negative.

I did notice that Will threw in a kind of false equivalency to give himself cover, namely the idea that those on the left also don't want to hear information that disagrees with their view. But then he explains away that charade by noting that it has been the practice of the Bush administration to point to just such temporary gains as "proof" that things have turned around during the times that they now admit things were going disastrously.

It is not clear whether or not Will sees that his own argument explains the democratic response or if he is silly enough to be giving the same response while finding it abhorrent in his political opponents.

But Will has pulled off a kind of coup here. At least so far he has received 4 checks out of a possible 5 for a column attacking his readership as deluded. It appears that he benefits from the fact that his readership is deluded enough to ignore the key parts of his article.

Hurry up libs
You better get on your Democrat reps quickly. Time for achieving defeat is running out!!

apoplectic- I CALLED IT!
Check my earlier post and then read Lon's post!

apoplectic
Also read Warren SamllBrain's post!

A weaker government
The intelligence report congress is now reading projects that Maliki's government will get progressively weaker over the next six to 12 months. This, if true, will put this issue squarely into the middle of the election, as this would indicate that there will be no political progress over the next year. In fact, it implies that this government will not survive as it is. That, in turn, will undermine the justification for the surge, which was to promote political reconciliation. At the same time, Americans will be faced, in the spring, with how to maintain the surge given our forces, and given that the justification of political reconciliation has not made any progress. And if the report is accurate in it's projections that it will take at least a year and a half minimum, if that, then Americans will be fighting this battle right through the elections, and will have no political reconciliation to point to until a new President is in place.

Those who believe that the Democrats are going to let go of this issue, or that the surge will substantially change public opinion, will undoubtedly find that by Spring, whatever advantages they may now believe they have will have again deteriorated.

If we get 12 to 18 months downstream and we still have no effective unified government, then this may force Bush to decide if the policy of promoting a government of national unity will have to give way to a policy of separation of these sects. Even now, the Maliki government opposes our arming of the Sunni's, which we promote as one positive outcome of the surge.




Mr Will suggests that we labor under ...
... only "corrosive suspicions that the fruits of victory in Europe (were) squandered by Americans of bad character or bad motives ....?"

"Corrosive suspicions?"

"Bad motives??"

How about we look at effect rather than at (delusionally fantasized?) cause and that we then call what went on at Yalta -- and a bit later with the Moscow directed "Marshall Plan" -- evil actions!"

Surely there can be no lingering doubt in the mind of any thinking American that at Yalta the habitually drunken (essentially, thank God,) Anglo-American, Mr Winston Leonard Spencer Jerome Churchill and the activist-Soviet-Agent (Hiss et al) owned, operated and directed, new socialist 'deal" (Translation: Illegal, unlawful and un-Constitutional Scheme) traitor, Mr Roosevelt, confronted by Stalin, rolled over, played dead and turned over millions of Germans and Russians and Eastern Europeans to certain death and millions more into decades of bloody slavery.

"Corrosive suspicions?"

Nope.

A cold hard objective reading of the historical reality!

For Impact
Impact, you say you would leave Iraq if not for teh spectre of Iran controlling Iraq. Try to follow this:

Bush's goal was to install democracy in Iraq.

About 2/3 of Iraqi's are Shia, beholding to Iran.

In a democracy, a voting block of 2/3 would inevitably result in a victory for Iraqi Shia.

Ergo, if America had reached its goal, Iran would effectively control Iraq.

That is why I have said all along that even if we were to stablize Iraq and install Democracy, we would lose becuase Iran would control that Democracy. Even if we win, we lose.

Eben & Lon
A. Lon, Will has not been an Iraq war supporter so his viewpoint is going to be different than that of many of the conservatives who post here. Therefore, your point is what, exactly?

B. Eben, question for you: Do you think there is a greater divide between parties in the Iraqi deliberative body or in the American deliberative body?

Objectively speaking, would you say that the Iraqi's are doing a better job with their governance than Pelosi and Reid are doing with theirs?

Look at the Dem Congress's poll numbers and ask yourself, if it were the Iraqis trying to restore order to America and they were relying on our Congress to get their act together, would they have a right to say we were not worth saving?

It's a rhetorical question.

Georgetwin
Spot on!! This is going to be fun to watch!! They are now running rapidly from the violence levels in a "civil war" to the political feuding and lack of high level cooperation. While that is certainly troubling, it may be that they are once again premature in declaring failure. They were quick to call the surge a failure before it even began in ernest. They also are ignoring significant political advances and cooperation at the local levels. This grassroots movement may actually begin to pressure the central government to make conciliations and force action at that level. Too early to tell, but the dems have put themselves in a heck of a pickle. They'll continue to move the goalposts but they could be running out of stadium.

Another righty sees the light.
Any fair reading of this article leads to the conclusion that even George Will now opposes further military action in Iraq. President Johnson famously said, regarding Viet Nam, "If I've lost Conkrite, I've lost the country." Well, President Bush, If you've lost George Will . . . .

Beeblebrox
I quoted an intelligence report. Your comparison is absurd. There are 2.35 million refugees at last count outside of Iraq, and over 2 million displaced internally. These numbers grow every month. Prorated for population - that would mean we'd have 50 million in the US. The minorities in that country are being decimated. There were 1.2 million christians - now the number is around 400,000. The Jewish community has been eradicated. The Sunni's who remain in Baghdad live in Armed camps. Maliki is a Dawa who fled Iraq in 1979 - living in Iran and Syria. Iran supported the Dawa for that entire period - and he was an enemy of the Sunni's and Baathists. The SIC was also formed under the support of Iran. These two parties, in combination with the Kurds, control 181 votes. You have nothing to point to on reconciliation - which is why the Sunnis and Secularists have walked out on the government. Currently, the Shia region is a sectarian state. Religious parties rule the Shia's. The Ayatollah is the decider.

You may wish that you could shoot the Democrats - but that's not how we do it here. Over there, two provincial governors have been killed in the last two weeks - because they do that there.

Now - tell us who or what you will expect other than the eventual separation of these warring groups into their own autonomous zones - which is what they decided they wanted when they wrote that constitution.

That was my point. Your government of national unity is not a government of national unity. I'm simply stating that we will divide Iraq - or accept a division within the next 12 months.


Credibility
I'll make a bet with anyone here willing to take me up on it.

The upcoming report will be a step, or two, below glowing. Everything is going great. We're making great progress, etc. Continue with the surge.

Author of the report will not be Petraeus, although I'm sure he'll have to defend it. I actually feel extremely sorry for him. Something about eunuch comes to mind. Condi and Gates are going to be the lead speakers for this "unbiased" report.

I seem to remember a few months ago when 14 REPUBLICANS met with the President and TOLD him that he had ZERO credibility when it came to Iraq. Some one else had to be the point person AND they had to be able to report the facts.

Why should anyone in the United States believe ANYTHING in this report at all? What has changed since the meeting with the President?

@Eben
I am not disagreeing that there is not a great deal of sectarian strife. Obviously there is. The issue is that Reid and Pelosi are complaining about the legislative body in Iraq not being able to get consensus. They are saying this because they are trying to move the goal posts. This is obviously dishonest.

The long term solution in Iraq may very well be to divide the country up into more tribal groups. However, the problem right now is not intertribal warfare but the proxy war we are fighting with Iran and AQ. When we deal with those two groups then we'll better be able to see what should be done next.

Dogjudge
Author of the report will not be Petraeus, although I'm sure he'll have to defend it. I actually feel extremely sorry for him. Something about eunuch comes to mind

And you libs wonder why we are always questioning your "support for our troops" You can't understand why we say that you're anti-miltary. Here you are attacking the integrity of, by all accounts an exceptional General who is certainly widely admired and respected by those who serve under him, before he has said ANYTHING. I think you should feel sorry for yourself, because statements like that make you a pathetic loser!!!

Beetlebrox
I support the surge. I was disappointed it didn't start years earlier. I also agree that we must knock down Al Queida - and do it well. Then, we have a continued issue with the Shia Militia's. However, the militia's are connected at the hip to Shia's such as Hakim and Sadr. Then, we have the surrounding states. Line them up my friend. Start with Iran. Iran is connected at the hip to Maliki and Hakim, as well as to Sistani and Sadr. Then Syria. Syria sheltered these groups as well for decades, and has supported and armed the Shia's in South Lebanon - Hezbollah. This is the Shia triangle. It was evident watching Maliki in Iran that it was like old home week for him.

I don't want to overstate things. But stay the course was something I disagreed with because as an American, I prefer offense. Now, I don't want to hang on too long to another concept such as a unity government if all it gets us is years of controversy without resolution.

I'm an ex-vet. No big deal. But I don't want to hang our boys out for years on a vision that the Iraqi's themselves don't have - leading to the very separation that we can begin sooner - not later. I want to finish the surge - and then resolve this. We both know there are no good choices. But a decision such as we made in Bosnia and Korea may be the only one for now. I'll give this another six months or so. But personally, if all we have is the same, then I happen to believe that Bush will have to confront this for what it is.

And in my book - Maliki, the Dawa, Hakim and the SIC, and Sistani have no interest in accomodating the Sunni's.

Beetlebrox
I thought my point was quite clear. Will's column is basically calling the Townhall crowd self-deluded. In general that would generate low rankings in the approval of the Townhall crowd. After all people don't usually like to be called delusional, even if it is self-delusional.

It is interesting then that in fact Will's column has been met with approval seemingly by the very people he is calling delusional. Georgetwin, for example points to me as someone arguing that the surge is not succeeding, but somehow misses that that is what Will is arguing. Apparently people cherrypicked from Will's argument to take the stuff that supports their view that things are going well in Iraq. That is kind of funny since the overall point of Will's article is that supporters of the war are cherrypicking from what they read to get at whatever they desperately need to maintain their delusion that things are going well.

Was that really not clear the first time I said it?

What is interesting is not that Will thinks that the Iraq war is a disaster. It is that supporters of the war have managed to read him as if he is saying the opposite and so are applauding his mockery of them.

apoplectic
Try again.

I said nothing about not supporting the troops and the rest of your nonsense. Not really good at arguing are you?

If you UNDERSTOOD what I was saying, you'd realize that I felt that his position had been undermined by the administration.

Petraeus was supposed to give an impartial report. He was trusted to do that. I, and everyone else, were giving HIM the opportunity to do so.

NOW the administration comes in and writes the report for HIM. If you can't understand the position that he has just been put in, you're more partisan than I thought.

Please go back and try to come up with an original idea.

Sen. Warner: Start bringing troops home
Will Bush start pulling out troops by Christmas?

CNN-The influential former chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee has called on President Bush to start bringing U.S. troops home from Iraq by Christmas.

Sen. John Warner, a Virginia Republican, said Thursday that a pullout was needed to spur Iraqi leaders to action.

He has recommended that Bush announce the beginning of a U.S. withdrawal in mid-September, after a report is released from the top U.S. officials in Iraq, and that those troops should be back in the U.S. by Christmas.

“In my humble judgment, that would get everyone’s attention that is not being paid at this time,” said Warner.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/sen-warner-start-bringing-troops-home-by-christmas

dogjudge
That's nonsense. Congress mandated that the Administration write the report. They didn't just come in and write it for him. Congress did not request a written report from Petraeus. Petraeus was however summoned to testify before Congress. Your implication is that he will lie before Congress if he disagrees with the Administration's report. That is impuning the man's integrity any way you try to slice it!!!

Beepleborx
Democrats are moving the goalposts?

Are ye daft, mon?

To David Stone
Dixit Inspiens. At least you spelled Weimar correctly.
Cheers VB

Geo. Will is correct
...that regardless of what Petraeus reports, few congress-critters will change their minds. The Democrats will still be committed to failure and (most) Republicans will still be committed to success. I predict that a few Dem's will grudgingly move from the surrender camp to the victory camp, if they sense the momentum has shifted in America's favor.

Having said that, it appears that any such Democrat shifts from "surrender" to "victory" will be done only because of the fear that they could not sabotage our efforts in Iraq, in spite of their best efforts. Perhaps I am too cynical.

Yes Jack
The goalposts are about another football filed from where they were when Reid and Pelosi were demanding we send more troops in last year. Then they demanded we get a new commander. Now that the surge is working, the new goalpost is that the Iraqi government be in better shape than our own. That's hyperbole of course, but their demand that the Iraqis must achieve some kind of consensus as a marker for victory is ridiculous.



apoplectic
"Keep your mouth shut and let people think you're an idiot, or open it up and prove it."

Petraeus was to give the report. End of discussion.

If you've never had a boss who has undermined what you are presenting you have given you have no idea what you are talking about. That's what has happened here.

Duh.

MyManJones
Agreed.

But you'll never hear the likes of Robert or his fellow travelers openly suggesting such sentiments. They're too interested in scoring political points.

The day they begin to point to these unpleasant realities is the day I'll begin to consider taking their comments seriously.
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