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Thursday, February 01, 2007
George Will :: Townhall.com Columnist
Sumner Elementary back in the news
by George Will
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Fifty-seven years later, the Sumner Elementary School in Topeka is back in the news. That city's board of education is still wrongly preventing the right people from getting into that building. Two educators wanted to use Sumner for a charter school, a public school entitled to operate outside the confinements of dictated curricula and free from many work rules written by teachers unions. Their school would have been a back-to-basics academy for grades K through five, designed to attack Topeka's 23-point gap between the reading proficiency of black and Hispanic third-graders and that of whites.

When the school board rejected the application of the two educators -- African-American women -- but praised their dedication to children, one of the women was not mollified: ``A bleeding heart does nothing but ruin the carpet.''

Sumner is a National Historic Landmark because in 1950 Oliver Brown walked with his 7-year-old daughter Linda the seven blocks from their home to Sumner, where he unsuccessfully tried to enroll her. But Topeka's schools were segregated, so Linda went to the school for blacks 21 blocks from her home, and her father went to court. Four years later came Brown v. the Board of Education of Topeka.

Sumner, which has been closed for years, would have required costly repairs. Still, clearly one reason for the rejection was the usual resistance of public educators to innovations that challenge the status quo, meaning centralized control of schools.

In Arizona, some amazingly persistent and mostly liberal people are demonstrating the tenacity with which some interests fight to prevent parents of modest means from having education choices like those available to most Americans. In 1999, Arizona's Supreme Court upheld a program whereby individuals receive tax credits for donations they make to organizations that provide scholarships to enable children to attend private schools, religious and secular. More than 22,500 children have benefited from the program in a decade. Thousands of families are on waiting lists for scholarships because 600 Arizona schools have failed to meet federal academic requirements.

In 2000, Arizona opponents of school choice, in a suit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union, attacked the program in a federal court. They failed again, in a ruling issued in 2005, which was not surprising, given that in 2002 the U.S. Supreme Court held that there is no constitutional infirmity in government-sponsored and administered programs that involve ``true private choice'' by giving government aid directly to parents, who use it at their discretion for sectarian or nonsectarian schools.

Now Arizona opponents of school choice, thirsting for a third defeat, are challenging what Arizona's Legislature enacted last year. Noting the success of the individual tax credit for scholarship contributions, the Legislature has authorized corporate donors a dollar-for-dollar tax credit for contributions to private, nonprofit school tuition organizations. So opponents of school choice are trudging back to court where they will recycle twice-rejected arguments.

Doing the same thing repeatedly while expecting different results is a sign of insanity, but what really defines the plaintiffs is banality. This is about the control of schools by bureaucrats, about work rules negotiated by unions and, not least, about money -- not allowing any to flow away from the usual channels.

The public school lobby, which apparently has little confidence in its product, lives in fear of competition -- the fear that if parents' choices are expanded, there will be a flight from public schools. But the tide is turning:

Newark's Mayor Cory Booker, a member of the board of the national Alliance for School Choice, proposes a scholarship program similar to Arizona's. New Jersey corporations could get tax credits totaling $20 million a year collectively for scholarships for low-income students in five cities with especially troubled schools.

New York's new Democratic governor, Eliot Spitzer, proposes lifting the cap that restricts the state to a mere 100 charter schools. This common-sense idea -- lowering a barrier the government has erected to limit innovative schools that compete with the government's existing system -- is welcome, but not as bold as what Mayor Michael Bloomberg is doing with the nation's largest school system, New York City's, with 1.1 million pupils.

He is dividing large schools into smaller ones, emancipating many principals to be educational entrepreneurs under a system that holds them accountable for cognitive results. The logic of Bloomberg's reforms is that public money should follow wherever students are attracted by competing schools. So school choice is gaining ground in the city that has historically been ground zero for collectivist, centralizing liberalism.

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About The Author
George F. Will is a 1976 Pulitzer Prize winner whose columns are syndicated in more than 400 magazines and newspapers worldwide.
 
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Choice is a Good Thing!
As a public school teacher, I would like to see more choice. Choice will free teachers (and schools) to innovate. Rather than be criticized or punished for trying new things, innovation would be a matter of course. Schools would move away from the much maligned "drill-and-kill" method of rote textbook learning.

Schools could be freed to specialize and market to certain segments of the population. One school could emphasize vocational training. Another a rigorous college-prep curriculum. The possibilities are endless.

The unions fear choice because it would free teachers from dependence on the union. Teachers are much less afraid of choice. Most of us want to innovate and take responsibility. Unfortunately, the current structure of public education serves to extinguish that desire and enforce conformity and mediocrity.

Glad to hear it. Progress.
I could never understand how, to this day, in some job markets you MUST belong to a Union in order to work!

I was always hired for my skills or eagerness to learn them as I never would join a Union. Pay someone so I could work? You must be crazy! That is like the "Protection" rackets started back in the 20's, and continued today in Congress I might add, as well as in other circumstances of extortion.

As much of a Liberal Puke Mayor Bloomberg is I am shocked he is taking this action. This may be the first time in History that having a independently wealthy politician actually is paying off.

God knows it hasn't worked with the CA Governor!

Charter Schools work well in Arizona
Thanks to George Will for highlighting the movement to charter schools, and other forms of parental choice in education. Arizona currently has over 450 charter schools, and parents like me are very happy to have the choice. We are also very pleased that we, and all AZ taxpayers, get AZ tax credits for donations we make to any school for extracurricular activities, and an additional credit for donations made to fund scholarships to private schools.

Milton Friedman wrote about school choice over thirty years ago, and, as was generally the case, he is being proven correct in his analysis.

Liberal's Nightmare
Vouchers and tax credits for school choice is the only way to go.

- The government will actually save money (almost $15k per year per student in public schools in DC area).

- Our children will be better educated (private schools overwhelmingly out-perform public schools).

- Our children will be safer.

The loss of power and money to the teachers' union (who overwhelmingly only support dems) is only part of the problem for libs. Public schools are liberal brainwashing camps (ala, North Korea). Without public schools, the liberal moonbat would soon go the way of the dodo bird.

Eliminate Public Schools
I've said this over and over, if people wish to get control of their school systems again they will have to elliminate public schools in their entirety. You will never get control once the courts get involved.

Why is the Left against a "Back to the
Basics" school?

Because they take so much classroom time teaching everything BUT the things the children need to learn in order to be successful productive citizens when they become adults.

Having such a school in the vicinity, which actually succeeds in educating children would reveal the true motivation of the Left; to keep minority children from attaining equality to whites.

Do I believe that the Left-dominated schools REALLY want an uneducated underclass?

Yes I do.

How can they foment desent among the oppressed peoples if none exist? If the children actually learn how to function in society, learn how to get a job and make a decent living, they will be too content to join the Left in its quest to tear down the United States.

People who have a good job, a stable marriage, a home in the suburbs, and kids in little league are too busy to join the Leftists ranting and raving in the streets.

I think that the government should make a return to back-to-basics schools; that they should be the majority, not the exception, and if leftists want to teach their garbage, they should be the ones who have to open private schools, which are truthfully labeled.

You know, the way packaged foods have to post a list of their ingrediants?

How about "Warning; attending this school may lead to illiteracy, immorality, socialistic opinions, and America-hatred," as a label?

Mountain Rose
Your POST was OUTSTANDING!

It reminded me of the bumper sticker.

Republicans: Life life. Work. Be happy.

Democrats: Hate Life. Don't work. B*tch and Moan.

Hmmm?
If conservatives are the ones trying to force everyone to believe as they do... and in particular conservative Christians, why is it always the left who opposes allowing people to use the funds allocated to educate their children to send them to schools that do not indoctrinate them contrary to their own views?

I mean we're the ogres, right? We're the ones attempting to FORCE our beliefs down someone else's throat, right? If that is wrong as I am assuming liberals will consistently agree that it is, why would they through the very liberal teacher's unions and secular humanist philosophies of the state schools demand a RIGHT to do it to us and our children?

Could this be more rank liberal hypocrisy? Like homosexual rights/marriage and a myriad of other issues... they aren't really opposed to gov't oppression... only opposed to it being their ox that gets gored.

public school choice
I am for public school choice or
vouchers for public schools.

But I am not for a voucher system to
any private schools, but especially to
Christian (non-Catholic) evangelical
schools which currently under perform
public schools according to the most
recent NCES NAEP report.

IMHO, for the most part there is little
difference between the public and private
schools as far as methodology (for instance
most classes at a high school will be chalk
and talk) and measurements (essays, tests,
term papers, etc.) and I've attended and
taught in both. And according to the
recent NCES report there was only a slight
edge given to private schools when educating
the same kids (racial and economic levels).

see the report here:
http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=2006461
http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard...es/2006461.asp
see commentary on the report here:
http://www.ednews.org/community/showthread.php?t=52
and here:
http://www.ednews.org/community/showthread.php?t=42

back to basics
There are back to basics schools
thought up by E.D. Hirsch of
_Cultural Literacy: What Every American
Needs to Know_.
See Core Knowledge Schools at:
http://coreknowledge.org/CK/about/index.htm

For the most part I think that the cry
for back to basics ignores the reality
of most schools public or private which
are all about readin' ritin' and 'rithmetic.
Just look at the graduation course requirements.

This cry was more the case in the 1970s
when a host of electives appeared, especially
in high school.
For an excellent history on how high school
has changed, check out _The World We Created
at Hamilton High_ which traces the history
of a composite high school in Syracuse, NY
from roughly 1950 to 1990.

everyonesfacts
Performance and satisfaction aren't for the central planners to decide. It is for the parents to decide.

Further, test designed by members of the education establishment and possibly tweaked to bring them back in line are less than convincing.

But the major point isn't even that. The major point is that the power to educate is the power to indoctrinate (according to Jefferson anyway) and a parent has a legitimate RIGHT to determine how their own children are taught.

You say, "Well, pay for your own then". My response, "Give me a tax credit for the amount of money that I would be taxed over my life that would go toward the education system and I will gladly take that trade".

The bottom line is that YOU don't nor the GOV'T has the right to tell me or any other parent what it best for our child.

BTW
Why are you opposed to vouchers to Christian and especially evangelical schools?

You seem to have no problem with evangelical Christians being taxed to pay for Catholic or secular humanist state schools that teach a value set contrary to ours.

My experience
We have moved a good bit. My children are now in a very small, rural public school that allows alot of religious expression. They also do a good job of basic education.

OTOH, we have had our kids in both Baptists and other public school systems. One church school was exceptional. The other was poor and we took our children out after only a month or two.

The most well funded school was in the suburb of a major city. They spent around $10k per student... more than double the unsubsidized tuition of the good Baptist school. They had mediocre test scores in a firmly middle class community but also had significant teen crime/gang/behavior problems.

We noticed several things about the material that we didn't like but the straw that broke the camels back was when our second grade daughter told another student that Christmas was Jesus' birthday. Her tenured union teacher informed her that she couldn't say that in school it might offend someone... never mind that she'd just brought home a book entitled "The Earth Made a Mountain" that began "Millions and millions of years ago."

We complained about the teacher but were given the brush off so we took our kids out.

This illustrates my point. If a parent wants that kind of school for their child, I support their right. But you don't have the right to force me to accept it nor to penalize me for rejecting it. One of our founding protests was taxation without representation... that is what I am getting with public schools. I am taxed but my viewpoint is outlawed and I have no choice in the matter.

It's about the power
All the negative things said above about public schools are true in my experience. Having worked in several businesses and industries around the midwest, I see the terrible results of our public schools in the marketplace. High School graduates who can't count change, perform simple math without a calculator, read a ruler, follow simple, written instructions - as Mountain Rose so eloquently said, the schools teach nothing of value but are brilliant at indoctrinating. They may not know the 3 branches of government but they are well aware that the U.S. is an imperialist power. They don't know how to understand a weather report but are convinced that global warming is real and it is totally the fault of the U.S. They don't know where Iraq is on a map but they have been thoroughly briefed on why we should never have gone there and why Bush is Hitler for unilaterally putting us there. I could go on for pages.

The real drive to eliminate competition, however, is, as Icedog mentioned - the money and the power. Schools are funded on a per capita basis. Therefore, all of the students must go to the public schools so they get all the money. And when you hear about the plight of the inner city schools and the desperate financial straits in which they find themselves you are hearing about the fruits of the contracts the unions foisted on administrations decades ago. Full health care for life, full pension for life. In my local district, nearly $2000 per student per year goes just to teacher retiree benefits. It's why our schools are about as competitive as GM and Ford. Monopolistic unions are working assiduously to destroy the very entity that provides them their livlihood.

sjt18
You have every right to take your
kids out of public schools and home
school them.

Every one who has kids should home
school their children whether they
go to school or not.

The I don't have to pay because I
don't play philosophy has some merits
but it has not won the day yet. The
public, so far, has decided in every
locale that public schools are a public
good. And even if you are opposed to
them yes you have to pay. For instance,
I might be opposed to most road
construction and never use them and be
morally opposed to the values they
instill in others - polluting my air,
etc. but I still have to pay.

In regards to evangelical schools
what is most alarming is how poorly
they are performing, in general,
in relation to private schools,
Catholic schools, and public schools.
Obviously, there are exceptions.

I get your point with the teacher in
this instance, especially since Jesus'
b-day is a national holiday in addition
to being a religious holiday, but the
larger point that something, I'm not
sure what - an apology, loss of a job?,
should have been done just because you
complained seems off base in this
instance. The way I read it is sjt18
made a Mountain out of a Mole Hill a
hours and hours ago.

Statistical cream
"But I am not for a voucher system to
any private schools, but especially to
Christian (non-Catholic) evangelical
schools which currently under perform
public schools according to the most
recent NCES NAEP report."

I don't remember which commentator on this site reported on this report, but the statistics were creamed. That's a technique where researchers discount any statistics that don't agree with their pre-defined conclusion. According to many other studies, non-Catholic Christian schools perform as well as or better than Catholic schools and both perform better than public schools.

An anecdote -- a public school board member locally got tired of hearing about how unfair the State highschool graduation qualifying exam was, so he asked the principal of my children's school (an evangelical Christian school) to administer the test to the high school students. They administered the test to the entire high school and every one of them (including the freshmen -- who are not required to take the test), passed it with high marks. The school board member then took the tests (there are actually six to choose from) around to all the other private high schools in teh area and did the same thing. In all of these schools, the test was given without warning so the students couldn't study for it. In one school (the Catholic school) five students did not qualify, but in all the other schools, even the freshmen passed without strain.

Private schools might under perform public schools if you're seeking non-basic skills and information (computer skills, for instance), but I have not seen many private schools that fail in those areas. Students come out being able to read and do higher math and usually with a much broader knowledge of science. This cannot be said for the majority of public schools in our country.

There was a time when public schools were great. That time has passed. If the system cannot be fixed quickly, then it needs to be dismantled. The easiest way to do that and to assure that all students are educated, regardless of their ability to pay, is to provide for a voucher system that is available to be used at any school that meets basic academic standards. That would include all private schools in my community, but would not include at least one charter school aimed at "Native" education. Moose hunting and hide tanning are not job skills any longer required to survive in ALaska. It's time they went back to grandpa's house so that the children can learn to read.

NCES statistics
No, not creamed, reconfigured for
student background.

What the researchers found was that
private schools of all kinds performed
better than public schools. (They also
found that private school students were
wealthier across the board.) But when
you evened the playing field and simply
compared students based on parental
income levels there was not much difference.

Private and Catholic schools were a little
better than public schools in general and
Christian schools were significantly worse.

Please see the site I linked for the report
and the commentaries for how the statistics
might or might not be accurate. You will
see your side represented in the commentaries
no matter what side you are on.

aurorawatcher said
"There was a time when public schools were great. That time has passed."

NAEP statistics disprove this - student tests
have improved, but maybe not as much as they
should have: http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard//pubs/main1999/2000469.asp
and:
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/01/24/Opinion/Never_mind_the_doomsa.shtml

Anecdotes are great, but you know
what they say
There are Lies,
Damned lies,
Statistics,
and Personal Anecdotes!


everyonesfacts
To say that evangelical schools perform poorly is specious at best. First, it lumps all of them in together. Second, it allows the NEA, gov't bureaucrats, and others with a dog in this fight to design tests that disfavor them.

So what is your objective basis? Do you have stats concerning their 5 year income levels? How about their college acceptance and performance? Do you have anything from an independent source that proves your point?

But you actually affirm my main point. Who are YOU to restrict MY freedom? You don't like evangelical schools because they don't score well on tests you trust. However, I believe that a person's value set is more important than a particular set of answers to standardized testing. I know from my kids' experience that the public schools spend time on test prep specifically to raise scores whether the real education value is improve or not. Public schools confuse kids at best about the kind of value set they should have to become successful. At worst, they teach them to be even more self-centered than a person naturally is. Without any question evangelical schools I would consider would teach a solid set of values to go along with the pure academics.

Finally, did you even notice how un-American your comments were? Our Constitution was designed to ensure that the minorities rights couldn't be trampled by the majority. The building of roads and indoctrination of children are hardly comparable matters.

public schools
When they bused black children past local schools it was called segregation, when they bused my white children past local schools it was called integration....more liberal double speak.

restricting freedom?
Since the Democrats have taken control of Congress, there have been a lot of posters concerned about government interference in personal freedoms. Of course, when the Republicans had control, it was OK for the government to try and legislate all kinds of things pertaining to marriage and our personal lives . . .

Anyway, I have a couple of comments on topic:

1. This is a situation that will only get worse with half-baked solutions like vouchers. Real change will only occur if the federal government revokes school districts' tax authority and makes all schools "private".

2. Public school teachers are not less human than the rest of us -- the best will find work where they can make more money. Given that teaching is the lowest-paying white collar profession in the country, can any of you really be surprised that K-12 education is not top-notch? (Oh, wait. I forgot, it's all the union's fault.)

Oh, yes, I see that!
An NEA drone agency puts out a report in which they admit to creaming the results and we're all supposed to fall in line with what they say.

At least as far as the link you provided, which basically states that apparent increases in non-public school performance scores are "not statistically signifcant" which means, I interpret, "pay no attention to them, we don't want you to know." I also note that public school scores from 1971 (when schools were demonstratably starting to fail compared to past decades) have gone down or remained flat. It's right there in your link.

Again, I will assert that the statistics from this report were creamed. Not adjusted for income, which is ridiculous on the face of it. It is an outrageous fallacy that only rich people send their children to private school. Only parents who care what sort of education their children get send their children to private school. Most of us who choose private schools forego new cars, bigger houses and vacations so that our kids can go to a decent school. Half my son's second grade class are military kids. Do we think our non-coms make that much money? I don't. I think they're sacrificing for a better life for their children, just like our family is doing.

Reports like the one you site are manipulated by NEA and prominent educators with a stake in maintaining the status quo. Please take a good look at who compile the report before you argue the point. These are not objective reporters.

Neither are graduation requirements based upon course grades any true indication that students have actually learned the content. When Alaska instituted the graduation qualifying exam, the whining caused them to allow students to take the test in sophomore, junior and senior years. At the end of the third year, one-quarter of seniors still could not pass the test. That's when the school board member conducted his experiment. Freshmen in private schools were able to pass the test with high scores.

Course grades are not based on objective standards. I've been a teacher and seen myself wanting to favor certain students despite their grades. I've been a student and watched teachers round up grades so everybody would pass. My cousin was a teacher in the bush schools, where the principal told him that nobody was to receive an F or he would not be retained. A good friend is a teacher in California's Central Valley, where no bilingual child in one particular school is every allowed to fail.

A better report than the one you site might be the ITBS scores. Those at least are administered to all students, nation-wide, by people without agendas.

Teacher Pay Myth
That teachers are underpaid is a well publicized myth. See below:

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_nypost_teacher_pay_myth.htm

Comparisons
Tests are only one measure, and a questionable one at that. Many schools "teach to the test." Students are not taught to think, they are taught to take the test. Instruction is interrupted to prepare the students for the test.

This continues into college/university, where "Is that on the test?" is one of the most common questions asked.

Standardized tests are also changed. I recall my "college boards" (way back in the mid-1970s). My next youngest siblings are four and six years younger than I am. After they took their college boards, I asked them about some of the content. Neither had trigonometry, advanced algebra, or even the basic grammar I learned in elementary school. What are they measuring?

"Brown vs the Board" .. myths
"Brown vs the Board" was indeed a landmark case.

There are many myths surrounding that case. One of those myths is that this case established education as a RIGHT.

Here's what the case DID accomplish:

* it dismantled the legal basis for racial segregation in schools and other public facilities.

* By declaring that the discriminatory nature of racial segregation ... "violates the 14th amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees all citizens equal protection of the laws," Brown v. Board of Education laid the foundation for shaping future national and international policies regarding human rights.

* It reaffirmed the sovereign power of the people of the United States in the protection of their natural rights from arbitrary limits and restrictions imposed by state and local governments. These rights are recognized in the Declaration of Independence and guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution.

BTW, in the interest of intellectual honesty, I must confess that I am not an expert in constitutional law. I found the above points after a quick Google search led me to:
http://brownvboard.org/summary/
from which I 'borrowed' freely!

Nowhere in this case was the "right to Education" mentioned.

The only 'right' that is mentioned is the 'right of equal protection'.

public schools
It is astounding to me that Liberals are all about free choice when it comes to abortion, sexual behavior etc but giving parents a choice of schools for their children is sure to cause them to froth at the mouth and make little screaming noises.
Several years ago the NEA complained that a private Christian school did not have teachers certified by that state so therefore could not be doing a good job of educating the children. The school then hired a private firm to test the students to see how they were doing. In every grade the students scored well above the public schools.
The NEA said it was because they hired the firm and of course it was prejudiced. The school then had the same people who tested the public school kids come in and test their students. This time they scored even higher.
This was not acceptable to the NEA and the last I heard they were still protesting and I believe a lawsuit was pending.
Unless the parents begin to make lots of noise and the few elected officials, who actually care about kids and not about the teachers unions, start bringing lawsuits and screaming to high heaven, we will not see changes. As loud as the Liberals scream, we need to scream louder and longer and really mean it when we say enough is enough!

School choice has strings
Once a private or religious school receives a student on a voucher, that school then will be subject to the same rules as the public schools. It will have to be religion neurtral, celebrate winter break and not Christmas. Do you think this is far fetched? Any college, for that matter, that receives federal money gets smothered in federal expectations, mostly of the wrong kind. Private schools are successful because they are selective, because they have rigorous expectations, and because they have a philosophy and aren't afraid to state it. I would hate to see our private schools suffer under a multitude of federal regulations.

Rights and values
In my previous post I mentioned the often-cited mis-statement that "Brown vs the Board" established education as a 'right'.

So, if education is not a right, does that mean that it isn't important - of course not!

Education is a VALUE, something that all well-intentioned Americans realize is extremely important.

Leftists often interchange 'rights' with 'values' - an honest mistake, but one that should be examined.

A 'value' is that which we seek to gain or retain. To those who value it, Education is a 'value'. Education has to be acquired, at some cost.

A 'right' is a claim that cannot be taken away. Education cannot be 'claimed' without the enslavement of its providers. Similarly, neither affluence, food, shelter, transportation and medical care are rights.

You may apply the "at whose expense?" test on all of the above, and you will find that they fail.

So, education is a VALUE and not a RIGHT. Despite the rhetoric of 'free public education' we are all paying for it now via taxes).

Education is (and has always been) a VALUE in America. There has always been a considerable cost to attaining this value, a cost that parents are always prepared to pay.

BTW, the 'values vs. rights' discussion is more important than the semantic differences implied.

That is because many Leftists BEGIN with a false premise, e.g. 'education (or health care) is a right'. Armed with that erroneous position, they set national policy and create Govt funded bureaucracies to administer those flawed policies.

Re: Brown vs the Board
There are those who suggest that it was a mistake to have education policy decided in the courts. There are also many writers (e.g. Dr. Thomas Sowell) who have shown the unintended consequences of this ruling.

I am vehemently opposed to public funding of education; so, in my view there shouldn't be an entity such as the Board of Education. I oppose it on moral grounds (the enslavement argument) as well on pragmatic grounds (it doesn't work).

Education, like most other things that have value, is a scarce commodity. Central planning, the panacea of Statists, has been the worst solution to just about every problem. So, by choosing a 'central planning' solution to education, we are giving tacit approval to the placement of education at a very low priority.

Q) How much importance do I give education?
A) So much that I want to see it done well - and therefore seek to privatize it.

FYI, I have two kids, so I take this topic very seriously.

Privatize all education
All education should be privatized and let the market place decide where the best teachers work and where parents want to send their child. The Dept of Education should not exist on a federal level, among hundreds upon thousands of other useless federal programs. This country is in dire need of a new political party that understands and follows the constitution. Republicans have become lite democrats, unfortunately.

GoodOnPaper writes:
"restricting freedom?
Since the Democrats have taken control of Congress, there have been a lot of posters concerned about government interference in personal freedoms."

And those concerns are real and pervasive. They have no respect for private property or wealth. Their words even reveal that they consider our money their money and call it a spending increase when they "allow" us to keep more of it. That defines us as slaves, not citizens. Dems have never wanted educational freedom for the masses... only for the elite intelligensia... like rich powerful liberals.

Liberals don't care for free speech unless it is gov't funded liberal free speech. Talk radio and conservative pulpits must be restricted while liberal outlets/advocacies are protected and/or subsidized. Examples: NPR and Planned Parenthood receive federal funds. PP receives funds to do political advocacy for abortion... directly supporting pro-abortion candidates. I don't think any of their opponents get that kind of help and am pretty certain their legal opponents don't.

Gun control is another great example. The 2nd Amendment didn't have much to do with hunting or personal protection. It was seen as a check against gov't. The founders wanted gov't to be afraid of the people... they saw that necessary to preserve freedom.

How many examples do you really want? Liberals by creed want to restrict the rights and freedoms of the majority to give license to their supporters.

"Of course, when the Republicans had control, it was OK for the government to try and legislate all kinds of things pertaining to marriage and our personal lives . . ."

Please cite direct examples of their interferring with our personal lives. Abortion? The debate isn't whether privacy should be violated... it isn't a "private" act. The issue is whether someone in private or not has a "right" to take another person's life to avoid the consequences of using their legitimate RIGHT to free choice in a risky way.

There is no sound reasoning behind the notion that you get an additional right to violate someone else's rights just because you don't like the consequences of your personal choices that the other person had no say in.

Homosexual marriage? Marriage isn't a right. It is a state established, privileged, qualified contract. Can you name one "right" established by marriage that cannot be done by a will or living will?

The issue isn't about giving homosexuals equal rights. It is about gaining more leverage so they can use the power of gov't to force acceptance of their behavior on employers and other private entities. Emphasis on FORCE... in violation of the rights of property, association, religion, speech, and even privacy at a very minimum. That's what you have when gov't says you cannot discriminate with someone based on behavior.

"Anyway, I have a couple of comments on topic:

1. This is a situation that will only get worse with half-baked solutions like vouchers. Real change will only occur if the federal government revokes school districts' tax authority and makes all schools "private"."

You mean as opposed to the half-baked educational system now that results in less than half of all money designated for education actually reaching the classroom? You mean the one like in Chicagoland where teachers go on strike when the avg salary is $50K+ even though they can retire and receive full pay and benefits for the rest of their lives? The avg pay in our district was well over $60K.

I don't like vouchers because they come with strings. I prefer tax credits or if the fair tax is ever enacted an increased rebate. Parents, not gov't, are responsible for their kid's education... and whether liberals want to hear it or not, parents care more about their kids by and large than liberals/gov't do. Parents who don't care about their kids now already have kids that aren't being effectively rescued by the system... their fate can't get any worse and will probably get better. Those kids may end up in a school that will deal with their spiritual and moral problems in ways the PS system can't.

The only really endangered kids will be those of parents from really radical ideologies that are anti-intellectual. But that's the risk of freedom just like "innocent until proven guilty" yields risks that the guilty go free. The liberty is worth the costs.

The public school system doesn't have the capacity nor the right to deal with the "whole person"- emotional, spiritual, intellectual, physical. Education MUST do that.

"2. Public school teachers are not less human than the rest of us -- the best will find work where they can make more money. Given that teaching is the lowest-paying white collar profession in the country, can any of you really be surprised that K-12 education is not top-notch? (Oh, wait. I forgot, it's all the union's fault.)"

In the district where we pulled our kids out, the union teachers made over $60K per year, had full benefits, great retirement, paid sabbaticals, and tenure. I knew an under 60 retiree from a district in the same area who made $80K in pension... he had been a Vo Tech teacher. The similarly qualified Baptists teachers were paid less than $30K and had few benefits. Performance was comparable academically and far greater morally/spiritually. Higher pay does not by necessity result in higher performance.

But since you brought it up, this is another great argument for allowing a tax credit. A $3,000 per child credit would free up another $5,000 to the state schools. That money could be used to give PS teachers a raise.

replies
sjt18, if you go back to my first comment, I am not
for government support of any private education.
Public education in no way restricts your freedom
unless your saying taxes for things considered a
public good and a right (in almost every state
Constitution) are a restriction of your freedom.
And in this way, obviously, public education does
not trample on but gives minorities a positive
right they might not otherwise have.

General Macarthur, good point, but only applicable
in large districts and not always then. Most areas
only have one public high school so everyone who
wants goes to the public school can.

aurorawatcher, "drone agency" - do your homework!
The agency that was run by Rod Paige - you remember
him calling the NEA "a terrorist agency" and currently
by Margaret Spellings. Come on!!
I, nor the report, said people who sent their kids to
were rich but on average that public schools were
doing as good a job as the private schools of
educating kids in every income level. Others disagree,
see ednews comments posted earlier.
Let's use ITBS scores - can you give us stats and graphs
that show comparisons (btw, people teach to this test
too)
As far as course content, yes that depends on what is
taught and learned, but that is the case everywhere.

Vic, It depends on how you slice the numbers, the libertarian
Manhattan Institute views it as an hourly job and that
is an interesting way to look at it, see:
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htm#07
http://www.ednews.org/articles/7535/1/An-Interview-with-Jay-P-Greene-About-Teacher-Salaries/Page1.html

But I think the better report, rather the BEST report on
education in the last 10 years is the College Board's
"Teachers and the Uncertain American Future":
http://www.collegeboard.com/press/releases/110755.html
they slice it by yearly salary and have different results and
make many suggestions on what tack teacher pay and
education should take that I think we should heed. In
essence a new A Nation at Risk for the 21st century

jonathan, yes with state funds should come the expectations
of state regulations and transparency. If you want to
play the game you have to play by the rules.

voice of reason, education is a positive rights and a
value.

sjt18 again, now whose complaining about wealth?
Oh, and pay your qualified Baptists teachers better!

everyones 'facts'
Okaaay. I just read the "College Board's
"Teachers and the Uncertain American Future".

One of my favorite quotes: "The reality is that many other nation's are far better equiped to respond to the changes around them with "command and control" policies."

Ummm-hmmmmm. Mind you, this is not referring to just education policy.

The whole thing is nothing more than more leftist socialist crap. What it comes down to, basically, is that not only would all of our educational woes be solved by paying teachers more money (15%-20% more now, 50% ,more soon), but apparently, paying teachers more money would also go a long way towards solving America's woes with outsourcing of jobs.

Whaaa ????

Oh, plus, we need more affirmative action. Can't forget that.

It PRETENDS to be okay with alternate pathways to teaching (meaning not being indoctrinated by schools of education - as in, say, a math teacher who was a MATH major in college), but in reality, such teachers would be on permanent probation (and make less money) until they submitted themselves to the usual guru's for a master's degree.

As I said in the beginning, the main thrust is this: MONEY.

Call me crazy, but somehow, maybe, juuust maybe, I think we may have been down this road before.

And, btw, teacher are generally overpaid. I'm so tired of hearing this tripe.

Christian (non-Catholic) evangelical sch
Wanna know what the factless one's problem is with "Christian (non-Catholic) evangelical
schools"?

I can help you out there. The Catholic Church is increasingly leftist. Those others? Not so much.

Catholic schools generally use the same pc materials (textbooks, etc.) as the public schools. Those others? Not so much.

This is all about a leftist agenda. It has nothing to do with education. Indoctrination, maybe, but not education.

hang on sloopy #1
My problem with giving money to evangelical schools
is twofold:
1) private (see 1st post! - I don't want to give $ to the
Philips Andovers, Sudbury Valleys, Friends Schools, St.
Johns either)
2) in general, not performing as well as other schools
(see NCES report!)

Every one is entitled to their own opinion, but you are
not entitled to your own facts! You bring none to the
discussion!

For some facts on public schools, see:
http://www.cep-dc.org/pubs/publiceducationprimer/
For a report on the good that public schools are doing
see: http://www.cep-dc.org/pubs/LatestGoodNews/

hang on sloopy, sloopy hang on
The report's main thrust is money to qualified teachers
and raising standards for students and increasing the
school year to 200 days - 11% per diem raise for most
teachers, thus going a long way to the 15% immediate
raise. The goal is to make teaching a PREFERRED profession.
This is especially a problem for foreign language, math,
and science graduates.
And as they say we could have more minorities in
teaching - imho, if we follow the recommendations
we will fill all teaching positions with qualified teachers
and can ask more of those that teach.

You cherry pick from the article, so to do so myself I will
add that the two sentences after the "command and control"
quote reads:

I said to hang on! #2
"Americans have always, quite properly, avoided
detailed government planning, placing their faith, instead,
in the innovations produced by entrepreneurship and a
free market. Still, we should be clear about our long term
priorities and about the importance of essential American
interests" Then argues we have to come together as a
country to support teachers. Damn Commies!

So if you have not heard the research is in:
The best research on what works in education is that
the BEST TEACHERS GET THE BEST RESULTS - no matter
what school you're talking about. If you have a better way
of bringing in better teachers to ALL schools I would
like to hear it. Education is a value - how much do
you value it?

A word on ed courses. They have been found to be very
useful for teachers in the field, less so for perspective
teachers. The course work required to transition into the
field is probably the MAT which is usually 3 ed courses
(one in special ed), 1 or 2 methods courses, and 8 to
10 in your major. It shouldn't make new teachers worse!

stj18
How about getting the federal government out of the education business all together? Doesn't this constitutionally belong to the states and the people?

sumner school in topeka
I beg to differ with Mr. Will that the root cause of rejection of the charter school and religious school bids for Sumner was centralized control of education. As a citizen of Topeka and a federal employee close to the issue, my understanding of the rejection WAS cost and rehab of the building. As a National Historic Landmark, Sumner Elementary has some restrictions on how much and what kind of rehabilitation can be done and unfortunately, neither of the groups that sought possession of the building were prepared for the costs of the project that certainly would reach into the eight-digits. The religious school bid was rejected because proposed security measures such as fencing around the building would not meet National Historic Landmark restrictions. Mr. Will uses the Sumner example for his own agenda here which I argue does not apply to the reality of the situation.
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