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Wednesday, January 10, 2007
George Will :: Townhall.com Columnist
Tough times at the UAW
by George Will
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Married life ain't hard when you got a union card, A union man has a happy life when he's got a union wife.- ``The Union Maid'' - Woody Guthrie (1940)

DETROIT -- Those were the days, my friend, we thought they'd never end. Unions were on the march, and the marching songs were grand, especially here, home of the United Auto Workers. Recently, the UAW has been retreating, crippled by economic forces beyond its control -- and by its past successes in winning benefits that companies can no longer afford as they compete with foreign manufacturers in America who do not have unionized workers and the legacy costs of union retirees.

Soon a quietly angry UAW man, whom most Americans have never heard of, will be heard from. Ron Gettelfinger takes strenuous exception to the idea that he has America's most unenviable job. He enjoys getting to the office early -- before the Solidarity House cafeteria opens at 6:30 a.m. But as head of the UAW he had a wrenching 2006 and this year he must negotiate new contracts with General Motors, Ford and Chrysler. He will not be negotiating from strength. But, then, neither will they.

A generally soft-spoken man, he has been a union man since 1964, when he signed on as a chassis line repairman at a Ford plant in Kentucky, making pickup trucks. There he participated in resolving productivity and quality issues that had Ford contemplating closure of the plant.

Today Ford has announced closings of 16 plants. It has hocked the rest, using almost all its assets -- including even the blue oval logo -- as collateral for $23 billion it has borrowed for a two-year dash to profitability. Much of that cash will pay for the buyouts -- worth up to $140,000 apiece -- that have been accepted by almost half of the company's UAW workers, who at the beginning of last year numbered 83,000.

The UAW says its concessions amount to $3 billion of Ford's $5 billion annual reductions in fixed costs. There also have been roughly 34,000 buyouts at GM, where UAW concessions ($3 billion in health care, $3 billion in work force attrition) account for two-thirds of the company's $9 billion annual reduction of fixed costs. The UAW notes that although Canadian autoworkers are unionized, GM spends $1,000 per car less on health care on cars it manufactures in Ontario because there government pays those costs.

But now Gettelfinger insists, ``You can't cut your way to profitability," and he says the UAW is ready to dig in its heels. He says the UAW adds value to members' lives by limiting subtractions -- damages done by attrition and bankruptcy. In September the UAW stopped negotiating concessions with Chrysler because it considered the company's problems less than severe, but is now re-examining the company's condition.

Gettelfinger resents workers paying the price of management blunders, one of which, he says, was Ford's mismanagement of the Taurus model, the last of which rolled off the line in October. He says Taurus would have had ``years of life left'' if Ford had constantly refined it, as Toyota has done with the Camry.

``Obscene" is Gettelfinger's description of executives' pay and retirement protections at Delphi, the giant auto parts manufacturer that entered bankruptcy protection in 2005. He believes bankruptcy has become a management tool by which companies shred labor contracts, and he warns that if Delphi tries to void its contract with the UAW, that ``will be the biggest mistake they ever made."

But more than 14,000 of Delphi's 24,000 UAW employees have accepted early retirement or buyout offers. Furthermore, the UAW has swallowed hard and accepted a two-tier wage system -- lower wages ($14 an hour rather than $27) for new hires.

Ford, GM and Chrysler might seek such wage systems in the coming contract negotiations. The UAW allowed Chrysler to hire temporary workers -- $18 an hour; they can be fired at any time; they are not eligible for the jobs bank -- at its Belvidere, Ill., plant.

The jobs bank was negotiated in 1984 on the assumption that, in the cyclical automobile business, laid-off workers would eventually be rehired. Workers in the job bank receive a small portion of their pay plus unemployment benefits for 48 weeks, but then are restored to full pay while unemployed. Gettelfinger vows to fight to retain this.

Recently Gettelfinger suggested that the UAW, which soon will be more than two-thirds smaller than it was when it had 1.5 million members 20 years ago, might consider merging with another union. A UAW card no longer means that life cannot be hard.

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About The Author
George F. Will is a 1976 Pulitzer Prize winner whose columns are syndicated in more than 400 magazines and newspapers worldwide.
 
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I feel compassion for those old folks..
..who grew up thinking the Union was a career and a meal ticket for life, perhaps even beyond for their dependants. Tell me it ain't so!

Even now I feel bad that these people have been duped by leadership who thought they could dictate history and economics.

They were thugs, and later they knew nothing but threats. The world left them behind.

Too bad their leadership didn't invest in the future instead of scamming the present. The game is up and it is every man for himself.

State of the Union
Ain’t mediocrity grand?

That should be the motto of Union supporters.

After all, their chickens are coming home to roost. For years, Union bosses have placed a stranglehold on businesses.

Consider the double-edged obscenity perpetrated by the Union bosses:
* they threaten to withhold labor from the business – by threatening to strike, if their demands are not met
* they threaten to withhold employment from workers if they don’t join the Union

A free country and a free labor force (aren’t the terms synonymous?) would accept such immoral actions on the part of Big Labor Unions if the results were positive. Let’s examine those results:

For the companies:

* Higher labor costs without increased productivity
* Higher costs translate to higher prices without a competitive advantage
* Antagonistic work force
* Mediocrity instead of a meritocracy

For workers:

* Fewer jobs
* Less incentive for individual performance – leads to lower wages for the best workers
* Mediocrity instead of meritocracy

So who exactly benefits from all this? In the long run, nobody benefits. But there is a seductive appeal in Unions, one that the bosses exploit. It's not unlike the seductive appeal of socialism to those who believe that you can have your cake and eat it, too.

Who benefits?
Voice of reason asks "who benefits" in the union shop? The answer to that question is the union leaders and the bottom feeders in the labor pool - or in other words, those who do not, or would not, benefit in a merit-based labor system.

It is a truism that the union enters a workplace through the basement, appealing first and foremost to those most willing to exchange merit-based compensation for seniority-based and productivity-neutral compensation packages. The very precept upon which the justification for seniority-based compensation is based, defies common-sense.

If, in fact, it were true that the more experience a person possessed, the more productive they would be, then it would stand to reason that the most senior workers would dominate a merit-based pay system. Reality indicates otherwise. Experience shows us that a workers' productivity is based on numerous intangible factors that cannot be quantified purely on the basis of years-of-service. Ultimately, the only way to know the productivity of a specific worker is to measure it, and any form of compensation that is not linked to that productivity level is economically irrational.

liberal mentality
"Workers in the job bank receive a small portion of their pay plus unemployment benefits for 48 weeks, but then are restored to full pay while unemployed. Gettelfinger vows to fight to retain this."
Where in the REAL world do workers get paid for a full time job when they are not employed? This is the same mindset that gave us welfare for those who don't work.
If I was the head of a company that was being forced to pay these workers for jobs that don't exist, I'd have them at the plant scrubbing toilets with toothbrushes, cleaning the plant floors and windows, cutting the grass at company headquarters with scissors, riding bikes hooked to to AC generators to run the microwaves and vending machines in the employee break areas, etc. You want money? Introduce yourself to Mr. Manuel Labor!

That giant sucking sound
Not too long ago, some local papers carried headlines "Delphi to file for bankruptcy" and a little bit below it, also on the front page, "Delphi workers set to strike."

Kerkorian was right to unwind his investment in GM. Any value created by these companies will be sucked up by the workforce.

More
Remember Samuel Gompers? Someone asked him once what the Unions wanted. His famous reply: "More."

I lived in Buffalo, NY when the Unions began departing for right-to-work states. I recall seeing Union employees with signs saying "Jobs for all at union wages!" outside an American Standard plant -- and two weeks later outside the padlocked gates of that plant mourning "We didn't think they'd really do it..."

I also remember Derek Sanderson, a hockey player my own age who destroyed his career and his physical body and who ended up on charity (which he has, I understand, now remedied) because he made the fatal assumption that GrabbyBabies always make: that the money pot has no bottom; that one can continue to take money out without putting any money in; that tomorrow will be like today -- forever. Because of the terrible example of men like Sanderson, and their willingness to speak to young players, the current generation invests and takes the trouble to understand what its advisers and accountants and agents are doing with its cash.

And finally, we have the Social Security Debacle, which was founded on the idea that the majority of working people would die before they reached the age when they'd collect. Today the majority of working people live another 25 years after they start to collect, and Social Security has added a lot of freeloaders to the Goodie Wagon that is being powered by fewer and fewer horses every year. The same blindness that struck the sports players and the Union Men has struck those who assumed that the Baby Boom (1) was the future and (2) the 79 million kids who needed larger grade schools, larger high schools, larger universities, a larger work force and bigger airlines would also need larger retirement benefits and larger medical care and eventually larger nursing homes and cemeteries.

Today is not a snapshot of eternity. Today is only today. As we should have learned on September 11, 2001, 8:00 a.m. isn't even a snapshot of 2:00 p.m.

In a world where things change minute to minute, isn't it time we stopped pretending that yesterday is a blueprint for today?

Behind the curve
The UAW, as Will points out, has made some whopping concessions. One could say, too little, too late. I would say it is too little because it was too late. Many of the concessions outlined by Will and some he hasn't mentioned were taken by the Union only when the company had their backs to the wall. When the companies were yet healthy but in serious competition a negotiation to concede on certain things in exchange for certain other things, value for value may have put the domestic auto companies in the position to restrain the onslaught. As it is the UAW is purely reactionary. Given the nature of the competition they face, it is a game plan to lose. The UAW has been in a strategic retreat for 30 years with no end in sight. The protection of the lazy and the politicizing of the UAW led to this mess it is in.

More
Remember Samuel Gompers? Someone asked him once what the Unions wanted. His famous reply: "More."

I lived in Buffalo, NY when the Unions began departing for right-to-work states. I recall seeing Union employees with signs saying "Jobs for all at union wages!" outside an American Standard plant -- and two weeks later outside the padlocked gates of that plant mourning "We didn't think they'd really do it..."

I also remember Derek Sanderson, a hockey player my own age who destroyed his career and his physical body and who ended up on charity (which he has, I understand, now remedied) because he made the fatal assumption that GrabbyBabies always make: that the money pot has no bottom; that one can continue to take money out without putting any money in; that tomorrow will be like today -- forever. Because of the terrible example of men like Sanderson, and their willingness to speak to young players, the current generation invests and takes the trouble to understand what its advisers and accountants and agents are doing with its cash.

And finally, we have the Social Security Debacle, which was founded on the idea that the majority of working people would die before they reached the age when they'd collect. Today the majority of working people live another 25 years after they start to collect, and Social Security has added a lot of freeloaders to the Goodie Wagon that is being powered by fewer and fewer horses every year. The same blindness that struck the sports players and the Union Men has struck those who assumed that the Baby Boom (1) was the future and (2) the 79 million kids who needed larger grade schools, larger high schools, larger universities, a larger work force and bigger airlines would not eventually need larger retirement benefits and larger medical care and eventually larger nursing homes and cemeteries.

Today is not a snapshot of eternity. Today is only today. As we should have learned on September 11, 2001, 8:00 a.m. isn't even a snapshot of 2:00 p.m. on the same day.

In a world where things change minute to minute, isn't it time we stopped pretending that yesterday is a blueprint for today?

My Heart Bleeds
I'm just getting tired of organizations like the UAW who've bred generations of workers who believe that they're entitled to violate the laws of economics as well as those of common sense. Apparently, the demise of the Soviet Bloc, which tried to operate on a similar principle, taught them nothing.

One has to look no further than doing simple math; new Delphi hires were paid an hourly rate of $27/hour which is clearly well beyond that of the average manufacturing job in the U.S. (that's $56K/yr). Factor in an ever-shrinking market share because somehow that $56K/employee never seemed to translate into a better product than what Honda and Toyota produces year-after-year, and it doesn't take a Harvard Business School graduate to conclude that economic forces are alligned against you.

I welcome their demise the same way I did the USSR's. Don't go away mad, people - just go away.

Wow, Voice-of-reason ...
after reading Stossil's piece this morning, I can see you are in love with the asterisk.

As former union steward for the AFL-CIO's E.A.S.T local 1553, I've seen unions up close. I've seen the wasted money and time at the union hall as part of a "contract study committee". What a joke. But I've also seen the abuse and waste, be it from a distance, when I'd go to talk to the division manager. Expensive ornate desks, credenzas, cabinets, and lighting fixture of all kinds. Expensive imported rugs that had no place other than to placate some regal need in an otherwise shallow individual.

I have a basic understanding of economics, but what I can't understand is the outlandish upper level managers receive and feel is necessary. On the surface, I've never begrudged anyone the salary they can negotiate, but we must restore reason to the insane compensation packages many managers have received in recent years.

As far as the value of seniority? My father explained it to me this way: "When you establish over time not only your skill and ability of the work you perform, but your integrity and reliability as well, you become an integral asset to the company you work for. When the inevitable cutbacks occur, they will bend over backwards in their efforts to keep you even if your specific job is being eliminated." Okay, those may not have been his exact words, but the lesson he imprinted on me has endured.

I started work at Hughes Aircraft in 1980. Through numerous layoffs, cutbacks, and changes in company ownership, my employee start date still dates back to 10/1/1980. Business in our industry is waning. Has been for 15 years. I still believe hard work and integrity will take you far. I have to believe that. It's helped bring me here.

Comments on Union
"A union is like an onion; you have a lot of layers to peel before getting rid of it."--C.N. Annadurai, Tamil Nadu Chief Minister 1967-1969.

Everywhere, unions have been greatly responsible for the woes of their members. I can remember cotton-mill strikes in Mumbai in 1980's started by the late (and unlamented) Datta Samant. Those once-busy mills wound up shutting down in the 1990's.

Unions, Social Security, Utopia
NOT!!
I was 17 when a got a job making casing for water wells. That operation took place in the warehouse of the parent company whose function was to re-work jet engine parts through a union machine shop. We didn't have a thing to do with each other except use the same parking lot. When the union struck for complete retiree insurance coverage (like their UAW comrades)I went to work as usual. The thugs on the picket line threatened to overturn my car with me in it if I crossed their line again. Charming.
The salaries of CEOs is fair game for discussion, but how the h*** can anyone expect car companies and other large manufacturers to compete when they pay twice the going rate for relatively unskilled labor and then pony up for everything from child care to hot rock massage therapy--in perpetuity? Unions had their day during the industrialization of this country. Today they are synonymous with organized crime and fundraisers extraordinaire for the Democrats.
And let us not forget who has corrupted Social Security (a bad idea to begin with) over the years by removing the tax exemption and allowing the revenues to be diverted into the general fund. The Democrats.

No Sympathy for UAW or Labor Unions

.....CBreeze...

.....Delphi workers were paid $27/hour but if you factor in their benefit packages ...it cost Delphi $75/hour per employee ...is it any wonder they could no longer compete? ...

.....When I was young I was a member of the Steelworkers union until the union destroyed the industry with their never ending strikes and demands for more ...

.....Labor unions are labor monoplies that use coersive tactics no different, in my opinion, than the mafia hoods who sold "protection" insurance to small business ...if the owner didn't buy the insurance ...his business burned down ...in the case of UAW ...if the company did not agree to its demands ...they shut the business down with a strike ...

.....now that they have killed the goose that laid their golden egg ...the union bosses want the Federal Government to bail them out by taking over their medical insurance (that's our tax dollars folks) ...did someone say "Hillarycare"? .....COLOSSUS

Beware: Burearcratic Unions on the Rise
Since manufacturing union jobs are disappearing, the unions are now shift to the bureaucratic services, i.e. teachers, federal, state and local workers, firefighters, police, etc. Those jobs can't be eliminated, so if you think any of the above professions are getting poorer in quality and accountability, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

Do you even know anyFord/GM models now?
Funny, when I look at a car I don’t think about their unions or prices initially, but their vehicles.

But its not the unions that are designing the vehicles. When was the last time you saw a Ford or GM car that was in any way interesting. I’m potentially looking at a car in the next year or two. Off the top of my head I can envision cars from Nissan, Honda, Toyota, even some from Chrysler as potentials (I don’t do German or French cars). Outside of the Ford Mustang, I can’t thing of one Ford/GM car even in existence at this point. They are just a non-factor in the game.

While I agree unions have been equally to blame with management in high costs, its not the union’s fault that Ford and GM can’t design a car worth even noticing on the road.

evil intent transcends collar color
Enron proved that. Overpaid managers aren't as much of a concern as unethical (or evil) managers.

Unions were a godsend in solving some horrible problems at the dawn of the industrial revolution. Life conditions were bleak beyond the ability of 21st century American citizens to imagine. Those days are gone now. Thank God for brave union founders.

The problem these days is that the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Union workers have allowed their union leaders to lead them over the cliff. The combative stance, the welfare mentality, and the continued denial that the industrial revolution is over are contributing to the suicide death of unions as we have known them.

Unions coerce their members' voting habits, explicitly or implicitly. They are motivated by two things: The union contracts that tie the pay scales to the federal minimum wage, and the political hay that is made of the minimum wage. It boils down to vote buying, pure and simple. It's legal, but it isn't ethical, and I don't like it. I want to take the ability to set the pay scale for a wide swath of the workforce away from the U.S. Congress.

Those of you in unions would do well to hold your leaders accountable, and to get unions out of politics. The public perception of unions isn't about improving workers' lives, it's about a bunch of lazy stiffnecks crying about the loss of the 1950s. For the sake of your jobs, your unions, and your country, you union members should hold you leaders accountable until they recognize that in today's world of technology and automation, it is no longer of value for a business to pay a man today's union rates to install hardware on an assembly line. It is no longer of value for a business to struggle with the byzantine union regulations and the inflexible workers unions produce.

For the sake of America, please get to work on saving America's unions. From themselves. Unions can't go on much longer as they are, and America won't be a good place to work without them.

Frozen in time.
"its not the union’s fault that Ford and GM can’t design a car worth even noticing on the road."

This is a good point. Ford and GM are having a wide variety of problems. Their issues with the unions are legitimate, but the corporations should be held accountable for trying to paint the picture that the unions are the entire source of the problem. Their own stifling bureaucracies, with layer upon layer of management and all kinds of disconnected "special groups," are an enormous problem.

There are inter-divisional and inter-departmental communication and cooperation problems in these companies that span decades.

Unions
The biggest problem with unions today seems to be that the corporate mindset that made unions necessary, now is alive and well in the union leadership. The attitude of caring only for the power that the leadership holds can be seen when strikes have been called that lead to the destruction of the company. Somehow some of these union leaders seem to feel that having no jobs is better than the having the union appear weak in its negotiations.

another example
of the union mindset, courtesy of Foxnews.com. In this case, it's European Union rules which came directly from the labor union bosses.

A man in London died after two ambulance crews did not come to his aid — because they could not be recalled from lunch breaks due to European Union rules. Media reports say the man collapsed five minutes from the ambulance station. But the ambulance did not come for at least 20 minutes and he died en route to the hospital.

An official with the ambulance service confirmed crews were on break at the time. EU rules prohibit personnel from being called out during the first 20 minutes of their 30-minute breaks.


Union forever
Unions are not responsible for the demise of the big three. Short term maximized profits are. The Japanese are in the car market for the long haul while the US makers are attentive to next months bottom line which does not include quality control or value for dollar.

Global Hit Em Hard
They had the world by the stacking swievel for a long time - but Global economics and the shrinking world has given the companies more options and the bottom line is $$$$$ - Toyota makes most of their cars that they sell in America here - the Toyota workers are not union, however they have a lot more to say about the operations than their union counterparts - Toyota makes a superior product - the last Ford I bought - an Escort - veered toward any tow truck it encountered - piece of crap - the unions were a good thing in implementing labor reform in America - however a tree that doesn't bend in the wind breaks - meanwhile CEO buy outs and salaries are obscene - if they were serious about increasing their profit margin they would cut the fat from above - not from the guy making 15-25 bucks an hour

You Should See Em In Germany
Crawfish - the Bundestpost which controls the telephone system in Germany work from 0800-1730 with two hours for lunch - if they are installing a long line and it comes to 1730 Friday - so long see you Monday if it ain't a holiday - there are about 26 a year in Germany - never mind overtime or how critical it is to have the line installed/repaired - a lot of the military traffic goes across those lines - encrypted of course - no surprise about the ambulance - the Brit Unions are worse

sardine101
On my blog, I posted an article where a frog woman was left in an elevator for THREE DAYS. Te workman split and did not come back for 1 1/2 DAYS!

Those hard working Euros!

"Obscene" salaries
It seems to be a running theme here that the salaries of top managers may be "too high." Why is that? Is it the power of the "Executive Workers Union" or because corporate boards know that the top exec can create or destroy $BILLIONS of dollars in value. Just like there are very few .300 hitters in baseball, there are few people who can be exected to be successful running a company with 50,000 employees.

If you work at Ford, do you really want to have a second tier manager running the company?

And don't be so envious of an executive's salary. They've worked hard since high school to get to where they are in their careers, and made many sacrifices, and only a very few make it to the top. Quit whining and get back to pushing your broom.

Unions have been necessary
but their leaders thought short term not long term. This same thinking applies to management. While the times were good, the unions asked for more and management gave them what they wanted in order to get going with production. Union workers were not even asked to be good at what they did. I remember during the worst times when alcohol and drugs plagued the factory lines, it was common to say don't get a friday or monday car. Quality failed. And yet, the unions were running out of further concessions to negotiate, so they asked for subsidized legal advice and they got it. So, what this means is "a pox on both houses." Moral...long term thinking is required

To JF on quality
I grew up a huge GM fan. 1964 Malibu Convertible, 1970 Nova, 1968 Chevelle. Wonderful cars, all of them. I wish I still had them. Something happened in mid 1970's through the 1980's. It seemed they made nothing but C R A P.

I bought my first Toyota in 1979, a Celica. No problems the entire time I owned it. Same with the ensuing Mazda and Isuzu, I owned. As an employee of Hughes Aircraft, I was entitled to the GM employee discount. I bought a brand new 1996 Lumina sedan. HUGE MISTAKE!! Little problems should have told me there would be biggeer problems down the road. Wipers wouldn't work. Glove box won't stay closed. Yada yada.

Then after 3 years and 53,000 miles, WHAM, the head gasket blows. Out of warranty, a new engine cost over $3000. More little problems nickle and diming me to death when good fortune struck. When I say struck, I mean that literally. Some yahoo made in illegal turn into my wife while she was driving the Lumina and totaled the car. (it was only good fortune because she wasn't hurt!)

From there we've had nothing but Toyota's and Honda's. Once you've had a real quality car, you can never go back to second rate junk again.

GunnyG
I am one of the few vets that served in France 55-57 and 59-61 - even in those days if you were going to fire your secretary on Thursday and she came in on Wednesday and told you she was pregnant - with a doctors slip - forget about firing her - not only that maternity leave with pay and for about three months - that was not even the union but the law of the land in La Belle France - wish I had learned to speak French though as it would have helped out a lot in Vietnam

In a world bereft of tariffs..
unions will inevitably take a big hit. Capital is global and can and will relocate to the most advantageous market for supplies and work force. As long as Detroit was THE source for cars, the UAW could ratchet up pay and all the bennies and know full well that we consumers would be footing the bill.
Wake up, unions. I will always buy the cheapest made widget, radio or vehicle for my family. You guys need to recognize that you simply cannot keep adding on all the social welfare benefit costs to the price of a car and not have folks turn away from your overpriced subpar products in favor of stuff made by Japan and China.
I dont like it but as Walter Krankheit used to say "Thats the way it is!"

Two-tier Wages
That the union would accept a two-tier wage system shows that union members only care about themselves. New-hires come in at $14 per hour while the established members earn $27 per hours. The union therefore earns no loyalty, not even from its new members.

Instead of coming to Ford and GM and saying back in 1965, "We have a great contract, let's just keep things as they are," the union leadership's raison d'etre has been to push for more and more benefits, pay,and pensions, which finally will drive these companies out of business. Plus, union mentality has engendered the us vs. them mentality, where the employees view management as their enemy. Therefore the union members complain and frankly do lousy work to get even.

I bought a brand new 1991 Escort. I changed the oil every 3,000 miles and drove it like a little old lady. The engine blew at 98,000 miles. My co-workers laughed that I had bought a Ford. One co-worker had a Honda with 250,000 miles, and it was still going strong. I will never buy an American car again. Fords suck. No doubt. And I rented a General Motors car recently. It was brand new, 50 miles on it, and the doors would barely close, they fit so badly. What a piece of crap it was. What a joke.

The union's attitude: All the new-hires, the company, the product, the customer be damned. Just give us our money, suckers.

sardine101
It's frigging stupid to run an economy like that.

The leftist weenies want to put the GOVERNMENT in charge of health care and I work around govvie folks all day long. That is, I as a defense contractor work, they surf the net, read books, attend various mandatory and worthless training, etc.

Private industry does it faster, better, and cheaper than the feds ever thought of doing.

And Then There were 4
Damlier-Benz
Nissan-Ford
Toyota-GM (minus the Buick and Olds Divisions)
Hundyai

Soon there will be 5:
Whatever auto company the Chicoms come up with.

a promise
the companies are as much to blame for there situation as some unions but whoever is to blame its not fair to the rank and file workers to work away thier lives at a company with the promise of a pension and benefits to lose that at an age where its impossible to make a living and survive or even get hired to do anything,if they want to change things thats fine for those just starting out to tell them the real deal when there hired that this is not a promise of anything so they know that the 30yr and out system is no more ,at least they will know that there is no light at the end of the tunnel and at least you know there is no promise told to you, but right or wrong the auto companies did promise there workers 30and out so if you are out or close to being out ,they should honor there word and do what they promised, its always been that way until greed and foriegn unfair trade policies were negotiated. now those who stuck to there end of the deal are supposed to just forget it because people think they should not recieve a so called legacy, if you were in the same position what would you think about that,with the deleting of those promises now and the cheap labor overseas and in mexico they can now be very profitable and can afford to pay the legacy for the few retirees till there gone then it will be even more profit and everyone will be happy that there is no more unions and companies can all pay third world wages to everyone and get even richer.who ever thought that americans could be so against each other,no wonder the world hates america we cant even stick up for our own people, its sickening!

Unions Home of the "More For Less" Crowd
In 1964 a UAW assembly line worker putting lug nuts on a Chrysler made 1/2 again as much as an Assistant Air Traffic Controller.....

It's The Nature Of The Beast
People, naturally, want as much as they can get for energy spent. Someone promises them more for less is sure to be a popular candidate. "Free" is another catchword. I remember an Exxon (or maybe Mobile) sign in the window of the convenience store, "Earn Free Gas". I am sure lots of folks followed the 'simple' rules to earn "free" gas. The unions have been holding the companies ransom for so long now the companies are going broke and the "free" gas is an illusion. The companies could take a lesson from Japanese industry. A person goes to work for Mitsubishi or Nissan, they go for life. Those companies are run like a military with 'base' housing, commissary and px for the employees as well as business expense accounts for nearly everyone. Years ago in Tokyo I met and did a little bar-hopping with an employee of one of the large Japanese companies. He insisted on picking up the bill in a few places because he had an expense account. And he was a janitor.

A quick question
How much less would a new Chev pickup cost if the buyer didn't have to pay for all the inflated benefits UAW workers receive? It makes you stop and think that part of the price goes to pay for their kids dentist and glasses, their wife's lyposuction and their salary for sitting in the "nothing else to do" room.

When there was less competition the unions could make and get their demands. The union leaders appear to be ignoring that they are pricing themselves out of the competitive market.

Most people would prefer to buy American but they also have to think with their wallets and if a vehicle from a non-union foreign manufacturer is equal in quality but costs much less....

kraut
According to GM, the union benefits tack on 1500.00 per car. Nothing like a little communism to spread the wealth...er pain to the rest of us.
The figure was in 2005 so figure with rising health care costs, 2000-2500 per car now. For a sh*tty product that runs like crap.

On the other hand, my 2000 VW diesel, STILL getting 43MPH, just crossed on 160,000 miles and still running strong.

Excerpt:

The company provides health care for 1.1 million retirees, active workers and their families. GM spent $5.2 billion on health care last year and expects to spend $5.6 billion to $5.8 billion this year [2005].

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-06-15-gm-uaw_x.htm

And then there is ...
One scary thing Will fails to mention; while probably not EXACTLY on point is that although union membership is in decline overall the one area of membership growth is in, are you ready? - - government. We are helpless and left only to watch this slow motion trainwreck of a government. If it didn't have all sorts of self perpetuating mechanisms exclusive to government, taxing authority mostly, it would meet the same demise as GM et.al. all the sooner.

Elections don't help because officeholders come and go but bureaucrats are forever. You'd be hard pressed to find anything more inert than a government employee nearing retirement. I doubt this is Wills idea of non-activist government but it's what we have. Some consolation.

In Milwaukee County WI more than seventy cents of every tax dollar goes to employee pensions and benefits. Politicians here insist we can't afford more police and cleaner streets without massive tax hikes. Yet they never stop to consider, within earshot of their union support network at least, that private sector services for those tasks could be as little as one third the cost.

I doubt Milwaukee is unique in this regard and only wonder in fear of how widely the cancer of unionism has metasticized throughout our entire government - the largest employer on earth.


GunnyG
You are right in most cases industry does it better than government - however that is not always the case as in Halliburton - Most of Western Europe was/is socialist and that means very large taxes to support those programs - 26 holidays and I would think that does not include vacation time - also a little aside as you are X-military - the Dutch military could couple days off and holidays with there leave time also weekends don't count - I have seen a Dutch Air Force Sergeant use four days of leave for a two week furlough

kraut
here's another one I dredged up.

Taking a cigarette break outside a General Motors (GM) assembly plant in Lansing, Mich., last week, Mike O'Driscoll admits he has problems: diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol.

But his arteries are cleaned out, thanks to a $160,000 heart-bypass surgery a few years back.

"I ate too many steaks and not enough veggies," says O'Driscoll with a laugh.

For as long as O'Driscoll has worked at GM, he hasn't had to worry about health care costs. He paid nothing for his heart surgery, and he estimates that during the past five years, he has paid his cardiologist a total of $500. GM doesn't take anything out of his paycheck for health insurance.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-06-22-gm-healthcare-usat_x.htm

So if you bought GM stuff, Mr O'Driscoll thanks you for paying for his excesses in life with a bypass.

An idea for the UAW
Is it time for the UAW to cash in its chips and buy Ford so that the UAW can run it?

Keepontryon
If they do the dems will insist that the gov buy only Ford products for it's vast vehicle fleet. And a word of advice, dump your Ford stock quick! Also, it will be another failed pension plan for the gov. to take over payments on.

Ford: The Health Care Administrator
In 2005, Ford Motor Company dispensed more money to cover retiree's health care than they spent on either R&D or operations. Ford'd debt problem is mainly made up of undercapitalized health care liabilities. Since 2003, they've spent (mainly through borrowing)some 10 billion dollars to cover these costs.

A few years ago, the CEO of Ford complained that he came to Ford to build cars, not to administer health care.

Broken Promises

.....Gunny...

.....the union workers who bought the 30 years and a lifetime pension are in the same boat as the baby boomers who bought the Social Security hoax ...

.....the main difference is that auto makers have to make a profit to survive while the government just needs to raise taxes ...

.....JP...

.....I hear that Hillary has promised the auto unions that she will get the government to take care of the workers medical insurance costs ...Socialized medicine here we come .....COLOSSUS

Two views
My dad was a union organizer starting in the 1930s through to his death in the 1970s. Unions were a necessary thing back in his day. He used to tell stories of working a construction job all summer without a dime in pay and then coming from the shanty camp on the last day to find the company doors closed. Nobody got paid -- period. There was nobody to go to and get justice. You just went hungry and people died. Meanwhile, the construction company owner took his profits and added a new wing on his house. The workers to him were a tool to his prosperity. He didn't need to pay them or even care that their children were starving to death for lack of the money they had earned and not been paid. They were expendable to him at the end of the season.

Next summer, Dad (now educated by a winter stint in the Merchant Marines) and some buddies went back, got on the same construction crew, rabble-roused and on Saturday, they demanded that week's wage. When the bosses said, well, no, we pay at the end of the summer, 90 percent of the crew sat down in the middle of the project and refused to budge until they got paid. The next week, they got paid without an argument because the construction project needed to be done and the crew was not so expendable at that point. That was the beginning of unions in this country. It was a necessary beginning. Most of the laws in place that protect you from abuse by your employer and require that safety be an issue, etc., exist because guys like my Dad took a beating for you. If you ever get injured on the job and your boss has to pay your medical expenses instead of just firing you, be sure to think kindly of guys like my dad.

The UAW has a problem in that most of its workers don't need to be that skilled to do the work. I've toured a factory and nothing I saw looked like something I couldn't be trained to do in a week of OJT. However, other trade (as opposed to labor) unions are also tasked with turning out skilled workers. It is a fact that an apprentice in, say, the electrical union, will get a more comprehensive education in his skill set than will an apprentice electrician in a merit shop. I know this because my husband is a union electrician who was trained in merit shops and he had a lot of scrambling to do to plug the holes in his training when he made the switch.

Unions have a glorious history that we really ought to be grateful for. Before the Hoffas, there were men and women of integrity just fighting for a fair share -- or to get paid for the work they'd contracted to do. Unfortunately, most unions got too greedy and now they're paying the price.

As far as two-tiered pay is concerned, this is not an unusual idea among trade unions. An apprentice electrician locally gets paid about $10 less per hour than a journeyman electrician. Until he finishes his apprenticeship, he will get paid that reduced wage, even though he may be doing the lion's share of the work on a construction job.

If newer UAW workers want to get paid more, they should find ways to make the company who pays them more profitable. That promotes ambition in workers and that's a good thing.

Union membership + gummint
Frank B, you're right on target. Today I read at govexec.com that the house (I didn't cap because I have lost all respect for pols) passed a bill to grant union bargaining rights to TSA airport security screeners. [Disclaimer] - I am a TSA screener.
Please write your senators and demand that they kill this. We don't need it, and I sure as hell don't want to be forced into joining a union against my will. *Note to self* Check if Iowa and/or Wisc. are right to work states. I live in Wisc and work in Iowa.
Think of the potential problems this might very well cause.
Taproot

Union membership + gummint
Hmmm, just checked. Where I live is forced unionism (Wisc), where I work (Iowa) is right to work. Now, can someone tell me which one will take precedence? Am I doomed?
Taproot

aurorawatcher
I understand your point but unions have outlived their day. In today's world, if you have good job skills and a good work ethic, you'll never lack for work.

Let's not forget that in the 20's/30's workers were mainly undereducated and unskilled labor whereas today, it's the reverse.

Ford and McNamara
McNamara quit Ford in 60 to be Kennedy's Secretary of Defense - Next year they replaced the jeep that was in service with a Ford product - gee imagine that!! the M151 jeep - it was nothing less than a death trap - the suspension system made it very-very prone to turning over - almost lost to of my soldiers in Fort Campbell - they told me that the came around a turn at normal speed but the right front wheel hit the embankment slightly - over they went - 1966 buried a keep in the 1st Cav his jeep - an M151 turned over on a road in the Vietnam Highlands FORD - Fix Or Repair Daily

baseballdoc and Gunny
Doc, you have it right. Gunny, its hard to feel sorry for foolishness. If the union wanted secure pensions they should have insisted on a real fund, such as my GI insurance has. Don't ask me to feel sorry for the boomers now voting themwelves into the same fix on Social Security. Bush bit the bullet, tried to at least start a fix, got trashed by voters and pols on both sides. The small electronics firm i retired from had a simple pension plan. They put 6% of my salary into my 401k and matched up to another 3%. In 10 or 15 years, the USA will be in the same shape vis a vis the world economy as GM and Ford are now. Up to now we've been able to compete with Europe, being as they are in worse shaape than us. But India and China, for starters, are now competing with us. Just as Ford could compete with Peugeot -- but not Toyota, the US can compete with France, but not China. I see nothing ahead but relative decline. A complete revamp of our education, jurisprudence, tax structure and bureaucracy might do it, certainly postpone it, but it will never happen. Our only hope is that some disaster will hit our competition. Not impossible, but hardly likely. People can vote themselves into extinction, and usually do. The Founding Father's saw it coming. When greed, sloth, and most of all foolish wishful thinking, become more common than foresight and a solid work ethic, the end is in sight.

Spare me the Golden Age of Union BS
Because it never existed. The early labor movement in this country was born of the worldwide communist movement. Sam Gompers was an unabashed ideological accolyte of Karl Marx. When the communist revolution failed to materialize in the U.S., organized crime stepped in to assume control of the key unions, and the shakedowns ran for another few decades. Today, organized labor is managed by, and for the benefit of the Democrat Party, in the last great labor monopoly in America - the government sector. In exchange for their compulsory dues-generated political contributions and election-day manpower, the Dems deliver on an ever-expanding universe of government jobs.

the typical fare....
...on this site, blame unions for everything up to and including the heartbtbreak of psoriasis.

I won't try and convince anybody otherwise, which would be pointless. I would like to point out a few facts, though.

In the auto industry, wages per se are not the problem; retirement benefits are. The industry calls them "legacy costs", and they are the true drag on costs, as much as $1,500-2,000 a vehicle. Ask yourself why Toyota, Mitsubishi, Mazda and Honda are to manufacture cars in the US so profitably. Is it because they pay their current workers less? Nope- even at the nonunion plants (Toyota's Kentucky plant and Honda's Ohio plant are non-union, while Toyota's California plant and Mitsubishi's in Illinois are unionized) wages are roughly comparable. The problem is that these are newer operations with few retirees and thus almost no legacy costs.

Then there is the problem of health care. When GM closed its Van Nuys, CA factory and switched Camaro production to Canada, they did so because it saved them about $600 a car due to Canada's nationalized heatlh care system. That was in the 1980's, and the difference has only grown.

You can claim with some validity that autoworkers make too much, or you can claim the US manufacturers fell behind in design and quality (used to be true, not so much today; my Cadillac CRX is a superb vehicle). But bottom line, fix the legacy issue and the health care issue and you eliminate about 80 percent of the problem. Our health care system is the largest disincentive any company has to investing here. Single payer, anyone?

No thanks laborlawyer
Substituting government welfare subsidies for private sector welfare subsidies will only worsen the problem. At least under this system, the only ones getting stiffed are the people buying the overpriced crap in uncoerced transactions. Once the government monopolizes the healthcare system, everyone will be getting the shaft, and not just the ones working in the auto industry.

Also, under your narow reasoning, businesses should be charging the borders of Canada to set up shop there, due to the presumption of lower labor costs, but that is not the case. Onerous taxes and regulations, along with their collapsing (single payer!) healthcare system, make Canada nearly as unwelcome a place to source jobs as Europe.

Unions
Not only do unions take your dues by force and waste them on the Democrats (you can't make the redirect that portion of your dues), they spend your dues on stuff like casino trips, bowling tournaments, spas, hotel rooms, airline or bus tickets, and more. I was astounded when I saw what the UAW spends dues on at the Center for Union Facts website: http://www.unionfacts.org
The time has come for unions to be financially gelded with a Right To Work law, whereby they cannot use any portion of dues money for politics or social programs.
And another thing is the use of "Card Check" unionism, which eliminates secret ballots. The National Right To Work Legal Defense Fund
(www.nrtw.org) has some articles on this nasty trick, along with the ever dangerous "neutrality agreements." By the way, I am a union member (UAW), and am constantly stirring the old pudding about this.

Ford
The UAW is partially responsible for the current crisis in the US auto industry. However you have Ford motor company supporting Gay rights legislation to boot. So now I have two reasons not to buy a Ford, Clueless and scandaless.

Midwest Minister
You are so right. If Ford's CEO doesn't want to administer health care, why is he trying to indoctrinate his workforce on the rights of homosexuals and to financially support the homosexual agenda. If I was going broke, the very first things I would cut spending on would be any non-essential programs, and I would think that the homosexual agenda would be one of the most non-essential in the entire world. Not only are you spending borrowed money, but you are causing your customers to refuse to buy your vehicles to avoid supporting the homosexual agenda by doing something that offends the majority of your potential customers.

Therefore, those of you who talk about management STUPIDITY are 100% right.

I have a 1991 Toyota Camry V-6 standard transmission with nearly 250,000 miles on it that doesn't burn oil and still has the ORIGINAL clutch in it. The interior is also still in great condition. There are no holes in the seats nor any broken springs and I don't take a lot of time washing, waxing and cleaning it. I had a 1970 Ford Falcon that had an excellent motor (302 V-8) and 3-speed transmission in it, but the rest of the car was crap. The driver's seat was so broken down that I had to put 2 pillows in the resultant hole to keep from getting poked by the broken springs. I also had a 1980 Ford Fairmont station wagon and it was crap from the beginning. The lift-gate rattled from the first day and I was told that all of them did that. All my kids have or have had Toyota products and they all have really liked the service they receive from those products.
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