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Monday, June 23, 2008
Fred Thompson :: Townhall.com Columnist
Boumediene: A Supremely Problematic Court Decision
by Fred Thompson
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As I pointed out last week, and as legal scholar John Yoo did earlier this week in the Wall Street Journal, the “Boumediene Five” have done our nation and our Constitution no great service. But beyond the rhetoric, we really need to understand the real world impact of this ruling on the war we are waging against our enemies.

In Boumediene v Bush, besides, for the first time in history conferring habeas corpus rights on alien enemies detained abroad by our military during a war, the Court struck down as inadequate what Chief Justice John Roberts called “the most generous set of procedural protections ever afforded enemy combatants.” Consider the rights that our country provided to the enemy prisoners in question before Boumediene:

The right to hear the bases of the charges against them including a summary of any classified evidence.

The ability to challenge the bases of their detention before military tribunals modeled after Geneva Convention procedures. As Robert’s pointed out, some 38 detainees have been released as result of this process.

The right, before the tribunal, to testify, introduce evidence, including exculpatory evidence, call witnesses, cross examine the government witnesses and secure release if and when appropriate.

The right to the aid of a personal representative in arranging and presenting their cases before the tribunal.

The right to have the government search for and disclose to the detainee any evidence reasonably available to it tending to show that the detainee is not an enemy combatant.

The right to appeal an adverse decision from the tribunal to the Federal DC Circuit Court along with the right to employ counsel and secure release if entitled to it.

The right to petition the DC Circuit to remand a detainee’s case for new tribunal consideration if the petitioner comes up with newly discovered evidence.

The right to require the Department of Defense (DOD) to conduct a yearly review of the status of each prisoner including the right to have the Secretary of Defense review any new evidence that may become available relating to the enemy combatant status of a detainee.

As a part of that yearly review, the opportunity for the detainee to explain why he is no longer a threat to the United States, which could lead to his release.

The DC Circuit can order release of the prisoner, and the head of the DOD Administrative Review Boards can, at the recommendation of those panels, order release upon an appropriate showing.

Again, these are the rights terrorists and battlefield combatants had before Boumediene was decided. These provisions provide more process than any that has ever been afforded prisoners of war in history. They go substantially past the rights afforded by the Geneva Convention. These are the rights that the majority decided were insufficient — and the result?

Their decision granting them the right to habeas corpus relief in federal courts.

Look, this issue isn’t going to go away, so consider these things the next time you hear someone defend the Supreme Court’s majority opinion as an attempt at “basic fairness” and to help prevent an innocent sheepherder from being improperly detained:

First, the Court left total confusion and uncertainty as to what rights these habeas petitions will vindicate. What will be the nature of the review under these new habeas rights? Will the Court review the constitutionality of the detention hearing procedures? What will be the burden of proof in these new proceedings? Will they have a factual hearing in order to try to recreate the circumstances in the field at the time of the detainee’s apprehension?

The answer is no one knows. It will all be dumped into the laps of some federal district judge and his or her law clerks. These are unprecedented circumstances and there is no way to predict what some judge might see as his or her new mandate under the constitution.

Again, it will be a federal judge — not the President or the Congress or a military tribunal — who will decide the appropriate extent to which the detainee will have access to classified military information, as just one of the more troubling examples. In other words, the branch of our government least qualified to make determinations on national security and foreign policy will now do just that. One other thing is certain. Whatever comes out of this new habeas corpus mish mash will generate a new round of appeals and our avowed enemies will work their way deeper and deeper into our court system.

Second, the majority opinion throws into question whether the tens of thousands of detainees in Iraq and the more than 1000 in Afghanistan are now entitled to habeas. Is the Court going to extend habeas protection to all foreign detainees held in foreign territory over which the United States is not sovereign, but has de facto control? We could be looking at tens of thousands of military detainee habeas cases in federal court.

Third, the Court’s decision encourages al Qaeda to continue in violation of the Geneva Conventions. The Geneva Conventions are designed to protect civilians and to reward combatants with certain protections if they abide by the Conventions. Al Qaeda specifically targets civilians and wears no uniform to distinguish themselves from the civilian population. Our policy now is to give al Qaeda combatants privileges that exceed the Conventions in terms of access to our court system without requiring al Qaeda to abide by these conventions themselves. This, of course, is an incentive for them to violate the law of war. They receive no penalty for not doing so, and by not wearing uniforms, makes any standard of proof requirement with regard to enemy combatant status more difficult for the United States. We are literally giving the enemy the means by which they can do us great harm.

Unfortunately it is not uncommon for a majority of the Supreme Court to make new law based not upon precedent but upon policy preferences of members of the Court. But this time it’s part of a much bigger picture. It is about power, and who gets to exercise it in an area that is vital to the security of this nation. This time it’s not only wrong, it’s dangerous.

It should also be noted that Senator Obama thinks that the decision in Boumediene v Bush is an excellent one. I don’t know what’s worse: that he doesn’t understand what the Court has done … or that he actually does and still thinks this was a sound ruling. Good luck to all of us.

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About The Author

Fred Thompson has been a lawyer, actor and United States Senator. He writes exclusive analysis and commentary for Townhall Magazine.

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Obama is a fool
Thompson is right on in pointing out that Obama supports this foolish and dangerous decision. He either has no clue of the implications that this will cause or his principles are so out of whack that he understands it and actually agrees with the ruling. Either way he has shown time and time again that he is incompetent to lead this great nation.

chaps
Whatever else Obama may be, he is not stupid. He knows exactly how much damage to the country this decision will do and is happy with that.

Its up to the President now
To let the Supreme Court take over the Office of the Presidency or not.
Allowing Article III of the Constitution to be used unlawfully to destroy Article II.


If he allows it, he is party to the illegal decision and power grab by the Court.
And this is just the plain facts.



According to Human Events
There is reason for hope! Welcome back, Senator Thompson!!

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=27128

Article II, the controlling Law
Who is over the US Military and all its functions.
The Court cannot be allowed to destroy the Foundational Laws of the Nation.
If the President does not stop the Court, he has accepted an unlawful order and he has to know it.

Civil Courts have no say in anything the US Military is charged with preforming in its duty, and having its own Laws and Court System.
USMCJ.

The Defense of the Nation is The President main responsibility.
Not in the realm of a Civil Court.


Section 2. The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment

All one needs to do is read the

dissenting opinions written by Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Scalia to get some real insight into this abhorrent and dangerous decision.

Note that both dissenting opinions were signed by Justices Alito and Thomas. And Chief Justice Roberts also signed Scalia's dissenting opinion, as did Scalia sign Chief Justice Robert's dissenting opinion.

Out of control...
It seems our justices in the USA are growing frivolously opinionated i.e. making up the rules as they deem suits the circumstances.

Some gay detainees are probably already planning citizenship and marriage in California.
Perhaps they'll invite Senator Obama to the wedding.

How do Americans put the brakes on the wheels of injustice if Bush & Co. don't?

Welcome Back Fred
Great article as always. I supported you for President -- now I need you to work your butt off to get McCain elected.

houstonrepublican: How about we ALL work

off our butts to get McCain elected???


Anne
See mine of 8:27. Short answer is because I am a Reaganite and Mac the Knife is the Death of Reaganism. See my blog, click the underlined name.

If I can't get "None of the Above" on the ballot, or right it in, and have it count, then I'm voting Hussein Labamaba.

McShame is actually more of a long term danger to the Republic.

the big mick

texrepube
See mine to Anne.
A vote for Mac the Knife is a vote to destroy Reaganism. I ain't gonna do that.

In the context of this thread, ya'lls whole premise seems to be McShame is going to give you that elusive 5th Justice as a Conservative rather than a Swinging Commiequeer (see my blog for the etymology--click underlined name above).

If you think that you are very stupid.

I don't care if you got him to post his "Top Ten Consensus Most Strict Construction Justices from which list ONLY I will appoint", he'd lie to you and stab you in the back.
Mr. Gang 14 is NOT (don't care what he says or you say, or anybody says, Gang 14 IS as Gang 14 DOES!) is NOT, repeat NOT going to give you Scalias, or Thomases, or Borks, he won't even give you Alitos or Roberts-es. At BEST he will give you Souters and OConners and Kennedys--and where were THEY in this latest SCOTUS Coup?

If you think Mr. Gang 14 means a more Conservative Court you ARE IN DENIAL!

McAin't ain't gonna do a damn thing for ya, and he is the DEATH of Reaganism.

see my blog,
rebut it if you can.

mick


Sorry mick: NOT even close!

McCain will continue to fight the war on terror and al Qaeda. Marxist Obama will have our troops withdrawing as he leaves the podium after being sworn in.

And, McCain is NOT a Marxist. Before Obama's first term we'll be in up to our necks in Socialism, and you, Bigmick, may very well be denied health care because, just as in Great Britain, we won't be able to afford health care for everyone... and the old people will be the easiest to "dispose of."

This election is NOT about a liberal or Republican in the White House. This election is ONLY... and I repeat ONLY, about keeping an un-American Marxist out of the White House, and preserving our rights and freedoms.

Any vote NOT for McCain is a default vote FOR Obama and Marxism...


Bigmick: You can rest assured that IF

Marxist Obama is elected, we'll have more Ginsbergs on the SCOTUS... right up until we no longer have a Supreme Court.

And you do know that Ginsbger is all about "international law" superseding Constitutional law?


thebigmick
John McCain may lie to us and stab us in the back. You may be right. Obama has already done that numerous times. Not only us,but the entire country.

It would be better in my opinion,since you are so adamant in you pure hatred of McCain,that you nurse your own hatred and not try to spread it around. Your mind is set,but some aren't.

There are many who are undecided,because we did not pick McCain,but we have him and he is the ONLY person standing between us and Barack Hussein Obama. That makes McCain much more palatable to me.

I expect a harsh condemnation from you.You seem so strident in your post. That is fine. I have heard it all before. Rolls off like water on a duck's back.


Rowly: I am a "REAGANITE" as well...

But we don't have a Reagan, or even someone close to Reagan this election. (And I'm still stinging that Fred pulled out!!!!)

Heaven knows IF we'll ever have another Reagan. But we did recover from Carter...

The only "death" we have to worry about at this point is the "death" of our liberties and freedoms, and that's exactly what we'll have with Obama....

It's really a shame that those who hate McCain so much are going to help bring about Marxist Obama's election and the death of our liberties and freedoms.





What Bush should do...

Dear Supreme Court,
Thank you very much for your anti-american decision the other day giving non-citizens rights just so you could employ your buddies in the ACLU.

I, as President of the United States, don't agree with your ill informed, unconstitutional decision and will not enforce it.

Thank you and have a nice day.

President Bush (grew some big ones in my last year as Pres.)

Non-Combatants
Most of the detainees at Gitmo were NOT "combatants" in any sense of the word. This is why several hundred were released after having been held--without Habeas rights--for years; there was just no evidence they had done anything wrong. Many were fingered by neighbors or rivals, or gold-diggers anxious to collect a bounty for identifying "terrorists."

Almost NONE of the detainees were captured "on the battlefield." Therefore, they are not "combatants." Their arrests were on arbitrary or very shaky grounds, to say the least.

In an actual war, in which victory is achieved by conquering the enemy country (as we have done with Iraq), prisoners of war are released. In the phony "War on Terror," there will never be a "victory," which means that innocents swept up on phony pretenses have no recourse.

The SCOTUS made a rare, good decision in this case.

If the President will not protect
The Constitution against an unlawful order from a Civil Court, then he has also broken his Oath of Office.

The American people no longer hold Politicians to be held accountable, and this country is headed for hell in a hand basket.

We no longer have Law and Order, we have Anarchy right from the very highest positions in the Land.

This is a criminal act against the US Constitution and the Separation of Powers.


Every single Combatant
Was arrested in a Foreign nation under Martial Law.
NOT Civil or Criminal Law.
These combatants are not in the Jurisdiction of the Civil Courts.
Its a Crime against the Constitution and its Anarchy from the Bench

Only Legal Authority
To have Arrested these Combatants, is the US Military.
They are combatants because ONLY the US Military has Legal Authority to define the Charges against these men in Gitmo.

No one else in the United States has any legal authority over the detainees.

Just the United States Military, which is under the Control of the President.
He is the Commander in Chief, not a judge.

And if he allows some judge to take over his Constitutional Powers of Office, he is as guilty of this crime as they are.

Maybe...
... one of the 'habeas' boys will be able to sneak a big one into the Supremes' chambers during an appeal. Now wouldn't that smack of the Almighty's sense of justice & irony?

Point: These people operate under the assumption that braver men than they are willing to lay down their lives to protect their frivilous & traitorous preachments. May they be the first victims of their unctuous insanity.

OH MY GOD
Now I fully understand what this ruling means to us and in future wars and conflicts. These judges have done us no favor. It is going to be a circus to try and move these cases along. Let alone the ramifications for releasing these thugs back into the world. Now What? It makes me shiver to think about it.

Paolo
You poor misguided soul.Instead of trying these criminals in American courts,I'm for releasing these 'innocents' to Arizona and the town where you live. I am sure you could mentor them. Leftists always love to talk and "reason'with the enemy.

Kimberly
What planet are you from? And when are you going back?

Bush's stupidity
You cannot blame the SC for Bush's stupidity. Bush might as well have brought the detainees to New York, L.A. or Puerto Rico. Gitmo is under the "Direct" and "Exclusive" control of the U.S. The SC decision was correct and upholds every American's rights on U.S. soil.

Fred, stop defending the CFR.

Scalia either shows his ignorance of history or is simply trying to sell everyone on the concept that Jihad is a "New and deadly enemy (para)".

Jihad was declared in 1785 when Jefferson and Madison met with the emissary (Pasha) of Tripoli. Jefferson told the Pasha the U.S. does not want war with them. The Pasha responded, "We have a holy book called the Koran. The Koran says that we must kill and enslave all infidels. The U.S. is an infidel".

1801 Tripoli declares war on the U.S. Come on Fred, tell America the whole story. Why are you supporting an organization that is destroying the Constitution you espouse in your articles?

Bush's first dumb mistake
When we invaded Afghanistan we did so correctly and under the guidance of the Constitution.

When we invaded Iraq, a sovereign nation, the President and the Congress violated the Constitution. We were not attacked by Iraq, nor was war declared on us by Iraq. We got into Iraq through Bush's bogus intelligence reports.

Sheeple will eat anything that is fed to them. It is time to get rid of the Democrat and Republican parties and get back to a real Constitutional government. The hour is late.

Baldwin 2008

McCain ???
Lest we forget:

John McCain did not just recently start talking about Gorebal warming or "climate Change" In fact, he helped Gore invent it:


U.S. Senators John McCain (R-Arizona) and Joseph Lieberman (D-Connecticut) in January 2004 introduced a modified version of the Climate Stewardship Act they had championed in 2003. A new study by Charles Rivers Associates documents the hefty national and state-by-state costs the modified McCain-Lieberman bill would impose.

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=15431


McCain-Feingold
Now it is official: The United States of America has a federal bureaucracy in charge of deciding who can say what about politicians during campaign season. We can argue, and people do, about whether this state of affairs is good or bad, better or worse than some alternative. What is inarguable is that America now has what amounts to a federal speech code, enforced with jail terms of up to five years.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/34642.html


McCain-Kennedy Amnesty Sellout of America

http://www.rescuewithoutborders.org/id36.html


McCain Still Supports McCain-Kennedy Amnesty

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LbTSe6uLqI


John McCain -More of That

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W53n2i-avk&feature=related


This news clip reveals the sleaze behind drafting McCain-Kennedy. A must see for every red blooded Patriot:

http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?p=3142


McCain-Kennedy Amnesty Bill Opens the Border

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=8051


Less then a week after saying he has heard the American people regarding illegal immigration and their opposition to the McCain-Kennedy pro-amnesty bill, John McCain would still SIGN THE BILL into law if he was President and it came across his desk

http://polipundit.com/index.php?p=19426

Oh yes. John McCain looks so much better than Obama (with deep scarcasm because idiots still will not get it).

The Upstream Problem
The additional problem with giving prisoners the right to cross-examine witnesses is that informants will not come forward. We criticize the emphasis on technology to the detriment of old-fashioned human intelligence, but can you imagine what an informant of ours in Waziristan would think of this posture?

Talent Scout, again with Martial Law?
In order for the rules of Martial Law to be applied, Martial Law must first be declared.

As to the ruling, it is very simple. The detainees are either POWs covered by the Geneva Convention, or enemy combatants covered by US or Cuban law.

Where US law applies, civilian or military, so does due process. Despite Thompson's accolades about the process granted the detainees, no adjudication which allows hearsay and evidence obtained by coercion passes muster as due process.

Additionally, the detainee laws contained language suspending the writ which is strictly unConsitutional except in cases of rebellion or invasion.

As I've said before, the best solution would be for Bush and the Congress to start anew with a law that adheres to the UCMJ and contains no unConstitutional language. Justice would be served and the detain cases would not have to be heard in civilian court.

All the combatants
Arrested in Afghanistan or Iraq were not arrested by Civilian Law Enforcement.
All arrested under Maritial Law.
Period.

There are no Civilian Law Enforcement
Authorities in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

The ONLY American Authority in either country is the US Military.
Whom the President is the Commander in Chief, and holds the Constitutional and Lawful Authority over.
The Civil Courts have NO SAY in anything the US Military does as to do its DUTY.
That Duty is ASSIGNED by the President of the United States.
NO ONE else.

This Court has committed a crime against the Law and the Constitution.
And the President needs to begin IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS.
Immediately

What can be done
To correct this over reaching power grab by the SCOTUS. Can the president refuse to abide by the ruling?
If he did what would the consequences?
That is what I am interested in, not what some rant by some layman that has no clue as to the laws and the constitution.

Fred, maybe next week you could expound on those questions. Please!

Judicial Supremacy
Over the Presidential Powers is a power grab and coo by the Court.

No Civil Court has any Jurisdiction over any person detained by the US Military and as enemy combatant.

A combatant can be anyone who is the enemy of the Mission the US Military has assigned to accomplish.

A COMPLETELY separate power than Civil Law and Criminal Law, Courts or Officers.

The President really MUST have the Justice Department file Impeachment papers against the 5 Anarchists on the Supreme Court.
In order to live up to his Oath of Office and Protect the US Constitution against ALL Enemies, Foreign and DOMESTIC.

Talent Scout
Military law is still US law and as such is subject to due process provisions. The court has ruled thus since the first Indian reservations of the early 1800s, reaffirmed in the Insular Cases at the turn of the the 20th century, and again with Pacific Island Cases after WWII.

Gomez
Was Afghanistan not a soverign nation and when did they attack us? They are & they didn't. To say that military action vs Afghanistan was legit & the same vs Iraq wasn't is specious. In fact, the invasion of Iraq was in response to Saddam's continuing defiance of the cease fire agreement he signed with the UN after Desert Storm. Note that it was a cease fire, not a peace treaty so the invasion of Iraq was executed under the auspices of the international community. The troubling aspect of the SCOTUS decision is not the narrow points of law addressed in the decision, but the precedent that enemy combstant prisoners will be granted the same legal protections that John Doe who was just pulled over by the cops. KSM, can you say OJ and dream team?

Information
More than 400,000 prisoners of war detained in the United States alone during World War II.

Not a single one was accorded the right to have his detention validated by a habeas corpus action in federal court—and that despite the fact that they were present on U. S. soil.

See Bradley, The Military Commissions Act, Habeas Corpus, and the Geneva Conventions, 101 Am. J. Int’l L. 322, 338 (2007).

Roosevelt arrested thousands of American Citizens right here in the USA and placed them in detention centers, under Military Police.

No Japanese Citizen was ever granted habeas corpus during that time.
Took 50 years and they were American Citizens.
In Gitmo they are NOT Citizens but ENEMIES.

Under martial law.
No Civil Court has jurisdiction, period.




Unintended consequences
In Florida, to protect the scrub Jay, a landowner can lose the use of his land if a scrub jay is seen to be nesting there. Consequently, landowners customarily shoot any scrub jays they see, to prevent financial loss. Exactly the same thing is going on with respect to the Cockcaded Woodpecker in Maryland. The well-intentioned laws promoted by the enviro-wackos (as distinguished from environmentalists) is having an effect opposite that intended. And how do these examples have anything to do with extending legal protection to those captured in combat wearing mufti? The percent trying to escape, and being shot in the attempt will rise. Attempts to provide damaging legal protection will result in clandestine action by those damaged.

Military Code of Justice
Follows the Law.
It has a Due Process just like a Civil Court does.

In Hamden the Supreme Court told the President to get Congress to pass a special law for the detainess in Gitmo.

The Congress did that in 2005(think it was) and set up the Military Commissions to try the detainess by LAW.
That is AMERICAN LAW ...bryce

Right here in Thompson's article:

Consider the rights that our country provided to the enemy prisoners in question before Boumediene:

The right to hear the bases of the charges against them including a summary of any classified evidence.

The ability to challenge the bases of their detention before military tribunals modeled after Geneva Convention procedures. As Robert’s pointed out, some 38 detainees have been released as result of this process.

The right, before the tribunal, to testify, introduce evidence, including exculpatory evidence, call witnesses, cross examine the government witnesses and secure release if and when appropriate.

cont....

Rights of the detainees
From the article
All American Law, all Due Process.
-----


The right to the aid of a personal representative in arranging and presenting their cases before the tribunal.

The right to have the government search for and disclose to the detainee any evidence reasonably available to it tending to show that the detainee is not an enemy combatant.

The right to appeal an adverse decision from the tribunal to the Federal DC Circuit Court along with the right to employ counsel and secure release if entitled to it.

The right to petition the DC Circuit to remand a detainee’s case for new tribunal consideration if the petitioner comes up with newly discovered evidence.

The right to require the Department of Defense (DOD) to conduct a yearly review of the status of each prisoner including the right to have the Secretary of Defense review any new evidence that may become available relating to the enemy combatant status of a detainee.

As a part of that yearly review, the opportunity for the detainee to explain why he is no longer a threat to the United States, which could lead to his release.

The DC Circuit can order release of the prisoner, and the head of the DOD Administrative Review Boards can, at the recommendation of those panels, order release upon an appropriate showing.

The detainee laws fail
On two fundamental points.

Hearsay and coercion. Both of these are antithetical to due process.

The bill as written contains unConstitutional language.

But we are ultimately on the same page here. I don't like the idea of these cases going to civilian court. I still don't see why a new law fixing these problems isn't the best solution.


Justice Scalia sums it up
Today the Court warps our Constitution in a way that goes beyond the narrow issue of the reach of the Suspension Clause, invoking judicially brainstormed separation-of-powers principles to establish a manipulable “functional” test for the extraterritorial reach of habeas corpus (and, no doubt, for the extraterritorial reach of other constitutional protections as well). It blatantly misdescribes important precedents, most conspicuously Justice Jackson’s opinion for the Court in Johnson v. Eisentrager. It breaks a chain of precedent as old as the common law that prohibits judicial inquiry into detentions of aliens abroad absent statutory authorization. And, most tragically, it sets our military commanders the impossible task of proving to a civilian court, under whatever standards this Court devises in the future, that evidence supports the confinement of each and every enemy prisoner.

The Nation will live to regret what the Court has done today. I dissent.

Hearsay and coercion.
This is something to reconsider, and rules changed.
Has NOTHING TO DO WITH Habeas Corpus though, or a right and access to Civil Court by an enemy Combatant.

Very different subjects.


The Office of President is above
The man, and the Office must be respected in its sworn oath and duty, to be the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States.

The US Constitution is ABOVE THE COURT.
The Judges are NOT above the Law.
The Judges also Swear and Oath to UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION.
Just as it READS.

The Supreme Court must RESPECT THE US SENATE AND CONGRESS.
Who ALONE IS THE LEGISLATORS OF LAW.

The Judges are there to judge an existing law, CASE LAW, not dream one up and declare it as if they are KINGS.

Which is what 5 have done in this case.Violating their oaths, and destroying the confidence of the people and are dividing the nation with a NEW "LAW".UNHEARD OF BEFORE TODAY.
They are not authorized to legislate, NOT their job description, that belongs to Congress.

They need Impeached



thompson.
when i read about all the supreme court decision that you conservatives say favor liberal and not the constitution im reminded of l old comic sjoke./ he had just given an afternoon show to 200 men and women from the nearby naval base. this was at the evening show. he commented"i had a hedckler at my afternoon show and she wanted to know about the afternoon show, i told her that there had been 50 women and 150 sailors, the woman shouted Yea And all th men are Lousy lays" when the laughter dies down i remarked "well Madam after the first 30 or 40 you might have started to consider the possiblity that its your fault." so it is wiht you people and supreme court decision s. you lose one after th other (decisions from moderate or conswervative judges) and complain about them constantly. perhpas you are wrong in your beliefs and the things you believe are constitutional really aremt and wont t ever be. the abortion decision have have convince you of that. how in the believe that you and not the judges were wrong, though you not THE JUDGE+S were very very wrong. its not what the constitutional says you say at all. one remarkable thing that all die hard conservative should notice right away about all these moral decisions. nothing gets done about them congress doesnt do more then
. its voting for them just the way things are. politicians areoddducks and will do almost anything sometimmes to get a vote. perhaps thats what theyre doing here. if not perhaops if you all got off your fat butts and started doing something that the law and the constitutuion says you must do to change this particular law, instead of sitiing there staring at the latest flyer from the presumptive republicen anti abortion candidate,

who cant prove hes done a damn thing about abortion .maybe youll start thinkin g about how the sleepy feeling in you butt hurts a little and that maybe its time to actually do something.

There is no point in
rearguing the validity of the SCOTUS ruling. It has been shown beyond doubt that the ruling was contrary to precedent, lacked logic, and was demonstrably an exercise in an answer in search of a question. I warned of overall consequences from this ruling from granting these people access to the U.S. Warren Court system. Well….

So far we have had one case where the prisoner has filed for release based on the fact that he was not read his “rights”.

We have now had a case where the D.C. appeals court that the SCOTUS said was inadequate has overturned the “Enemy Combatant” status of a detainee. His lawyer has now filed for immediate release based on this ruling. Legally speaking since his enemy combatant status has been vacated there is NOTHING preventing his release.

But what is the problem you ask???? The problem is that most of the people who the U.S. would like to release or at least get them out of Gitmo, no other country, including their own home country, want to take them! SO watch what happens with this case. It will not surprise me that since the court has actually reversed his status that they also order his release and then he gets released into the U.S.!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,370209,00.html


BTW
Since the SCOTUS has stated that these courts are inadequate Bush should shut them down.

One can hardly believe
that we are reading the legal opinions of a television actor.

The complete and utter illegality of the war on "terror" not to speak of the terrorist destruction of Baghdad ("shock and awe" - violence used as a political tool - which is the definition of terrorism) make any of the detentions illegal in the first place.

Are you cons, like Talent Scout, actually in favor of the U.S. government holding anyone, whether foreign or citizen, it hardly matters, because "enemy status" is hardly a difficult charge to make, are you really in favor of the U.S. government holding people in secret detention where the only rights are to be heard by a secret tribunal?

Then, I say it again, get out of this country. This country was founded by people who believed in the "rights" of "people". You have no place in this country.

I don't care what fears you have. They appear to be exactly the same fears all you lunatics had of the Soviet Union, which was compared by the fear mongers to the threat of islam to Jerusalem in the middle ages! Funny that islam is such a bugaboo. You lunatics have created these enemies not only by reaction to your illegal and murderous wars but very literally by funding them while fearing the Soviet Union. Do you get that?

Read "The House of War" by James Carroll, then go jump out of a window, like James Forestall, who invented the Red Scare in the 40's. The real enemy is those who profit from war and who create war for profit.



If_two_plus_two_makes_four
My my my, what an ignorant fool you are. This "actor" is a lawyer and a former Senator. In addition, the Constitution was written as a compact between the States to remedy the weaknesses of the Articles of Confederation.

In other words to make it so simple that a retard can understand it, it was written to spell out explicitly what the power divisions were between the individual States and the Federal Government. The bill of rights was added to explicitly spell out the limitations of the Federal Government with respect to the CITIZENS.

You speak disparagingly of this “TV Actor” but it appears to me that you get your knowledge of history and the Constitution from the very people you are disparaging. You just like the Sean Penn variety of actor. I recommend that you spend more time at the library and less time at TH posting tripe against your betters.

Talent Scout
I hate to tell all you libs this but talent scout is right. You libs have no ammunition. Talent is quoting right out of the U.S. Constitution. It is pretty plain language.
The good thing about this is the President does not have to listen to them. The SCOTUS has no power to enforce their ruling. Bill Clinton thumbed his nose at them all the time.
All the Military comanders have to do is issue the order, take no prisoners. Believe it or not the Commanders on the field of battle exercise a lot of power based on the orders of the President.

Supreme Court Verdict
In December of 2005, or 2006, I don't reacall which one, the CONGRESS stripped jurisdiction from the Supreme Court, over Detainees held on foreign soil. Only the Hamden case was grandfathered over to them. Can someone explain how this decision has any teeth? They had NO JURISDICTION in this case. Doesn't anyone remember this?

McCain and the Supreme Court
A number of posts have ripped into McCain as if he approves the Boumediene decision. McCain doesn't; to the contrary, McCain has denounced Boumediene.

The choice in November is between Obama, who thinks that Boumediene decision is excellent, and McCain, who like his friend Fred Thompsn has denounced it.

McCain pledged in January 2007 to the Federalist Society that he would nominate judicial conservatives to the federal bench. He has repeatedly said he would nominate to the Supreme COurt the the likes of John Roberts. Who do you know Obama would nominate? Very, very liberal judges; and with a Democrat Senate almost certain, those liberal judges will get appointed. Hello, with a number of old Supreme Court justices set to retire, the fate of the Supreme Court is at stake in the next election.

So what are some of you doing? Ripping into McCain? And you think you are conservative? True conservatives think: the "Gang of 14" unblocked Chuckie Schumer's intended freeze on judicial appointments, enabled Roberts and Alito to be appointed to the Supreme Court and enabled other conservatives to be appointed to the Courts of Appeal. Schumer complains that Democrats got snookered by the "Gang of 14." And you are hammering McCain for that?

If you care about the Supeme Court (and you should), then you should be supporting McCain. Otherwise, you get Obama and left wing judges.

There are two problems with this opinion
First are the practical problems for the military - collecting evidence on the battlefield, locating & tracking witnesses and disclosing military secrets. If Boumediene was in effect on D Day. The Allies would have shown up at Normandy with arrest warrants & lawyers.
Second is the clear reappropriation of the authority granted by the Constitution to the President.
Congress should exercise it's authority under Art III, Sect 3, Clause 2 and remove enemy combatant matters from the Court's jurisdiction.

Gitmo
Since the Supreme Court interprets the Constitution as it sees fit, why can't the President seek his interpretation of the
Constitution and appeal the decision?

Semper Fi

Payola
The way you use the quotation marks around words and phrases indicates to me a diddain or disregard for those situations. It seems that you don't think much of those folks fighting for us.
Have you ever been in battle. do you have any real world experience in this regard? Or, are you just a poser/pseudo elitist (in your own mind).

GommyGoomy
In this decision the Gang of 5 stated that the "removal of juristiction" by Congress was unconstitutional. Specifically 28 U. S. C. §2241 (e) was overturned.

Phil Byler

If you believe McLame's statements on this case I have a Time Share Condo I am trying to get rid of. Sure he talks the talk NOW, but when this was an issue after the first case he was all for protecting the terrorists and extending all kinds of "rights" to them. I don't believe ANYTHING he says right now as it is all election year verbiage. I believe his abysmal and liberal record.

Our own troops
This is very dangerous for our own troop taken prisoner. Do you liberal idiots really think the "enemy" whoever it is is gonna play nice with our troop when they are taken prisoner just because the court says we should be nice to our prisoners. I think rightly so because of this decision, our military will take no or much fewer prisoners. I imagine whoever our enemy is in the future they will kill our troops instead of holding them. Way to go libs.
Our troop prisoners deaths are on your hands.

More "get even" time
“...the Court’s decision encourages al Qaeda to continue in violation of the Geneva Conventions. The Geneva Conventions are designed to protect civilians and to reward combatants with certain protections if they abide by the Conventions.”

This is the main reason Boumediene v Bush was a bad decision. The goal of the Convention is not only to ensure decent treatment for legitimate combatants but also to minimize the deaths of non-combatants and destruction of non-war-related property. The Convention tries to accomplish this by granting legitimate combatants the “Combatant’s Privilege” and punishing those engaging in unlawful combatancy. With this decision, the court has swept away the distinction between a lawful combatant and a war criminal. This is why it “encourages al Qaeda to continue in violation of the Geneva Conventions.” This goes to show there are no limits the anti-Bush crowd will stoop to just to “get even” for their loss in 2000.

I HOPE
I can only hope that a group of American criminal liberties union lawyers go to whatever 3rd world country to examine the "scene of the crime" for their "client" and they themselves are captured by several of the scum that were released by this idiotic decision. Then I hope they are beheaded on film for all of us to see. Especially seen by the scotus scum.

sedonaman
You are SOOOOOO correct.

Like it or not
The fact remains that military law is subject to due process provisions, the court has ruled on this consistently since the early 1800s.

No system of adjudication which allows for hearsay and evidence through coercion passes Constitutional muster.

Bryce
You and a few others here ought to put your principals where your home is. I doubt seriously you will ANSWER this question. You will do the liberal tapdance and redirect.
Do you feel strongly enough about this to bring a few of these "detainees" into your home while their case is being studied.

Supremes
The Supremes have firmly established by precedents that they have the power to amend our now-a-living-document Constitution anytime that five of the nine choose to do so. They constantly protect and defend the erroneous decisions of dead judges (precedents) far more than they honor their oaths to protect and defend the Constitution. God help our not-a-democracy republic. The Supremes are certainly working overtime to destroy it. http://www.poorgrandchildren.com

Like it or not
Is no recourse to this decision. Who enforces this decision. Isn't up to congress and the executive branches to enforce ruling. In my dim memory of histroy, I remember Presdent Jackson saying of the Chief Justice at the time, I think Jay or Marshall, (paraphrased) he made the rule but I won't enforce it. Where the check and balance of the surpreme court? Can they be impeached? I don't know (stupid I guess)

POWs
In war, enemy soldiers captured in uniform should be treated as POWs. Enemy soldiers captured in civilian clothes should be shot as spies. What is taking so long? http://www.poorgrandchildren.com

Stanley
The American CRIMINAL liberties union is currently foaming at the mouth wanting to bring these people to AMERICAN soil.

McCain Feingold
I do not know if Senator McCain really disagrees with the Boumediene decision, but he certainly seems very content with the decision upholding the unconstitutional McCain Feingold Bipartisan Act to Restrict Freedom of Political Speech. http://www.poorgrandchildren.com

Herewith the words of General MacArhtur!
"I am concerned for the security of our great nation; not so much because of any threa from without, but because of the insiduos forces working from within"

Question: What does it mean to all those warmongers that up to 40 millions of illegals have invaded America with the aid of millions of so called conservative Americans for the sake to make an easier buck, who now furiously consider the terrorist in far away parts of the the world America's greatest enemies an threat to America? Yes, in essence sort of considering this invasion as not an insidious force from within, may I respectfull ask?


This from a legal immigrant of 52+ years and a staunch conservative Christian Republican, having quickly tried to find out what it was all about this America land, etc. Yes, America has truly sold itself to the lowest bidder, is my conclusion while America is blaming most of the world for it; just like all previous Empires, right?

Yes, this last question to America: Why in the hell are you doing that to yourself? I am leaving myself out while asking this question!

Fred writes:
The answer is no one knows. It will all be dumped into the laps of some federal district judge and his or her law clerks.

And we all know how this has worked out so well in the past. No dime store little Caesar judges would ever try and rule the county from the bench and do stupid sh!t that the voters have made their intentions very clear about would they Kalifornia?
I would bet there are more liberal judges with BDS than there are people on TH with BDS. Think that could have an effect?

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. Socialist.

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

STONEWALL JACKSON

.....When the Court ruled against Jackson he said, in effect, ..."They made their decision now let's see them enforce it" ...

.....We don't have Presidents like that anymore, especially Republican Presidents ...

.....I agree with poorgrandchildren ...in war, prisoners in uniform, should be treated as POW's under the Geneva Convention ...prisoners in civilian clothes are either spies or terrorists and should be shot by firing squad ...case closed ...Gitmo was a joke and never should have happened .....COLOSSUS

baseballdoc
Yes, hopefully Gitmo will never happen again.
Just kill any detainee after "proper" interrogation.

Phil Byler
Phil, If you or McCain really want my vote for McCain, please ask him to sign this. Last I heard, he would not.
http://www.gopusa.com/activist/petitions/petition.php?peti tion=080211_cwc

This would go a long way towards getting his conservative base back.
Of course he would have to stop the backroom meetings with Laraza and get rid of “Juan” and last time I looked, he did not give a frac about doing anything about winning his base back including pis$ing off religious leaders and their followers. If he thinks he can win the POTUS without his base, more power to him.
Personally, I don’t think he can and I am NOT voting for anyone who will not do their best to secure this country, and that includes the aisle crossing pygmy.
Please explain how you think he would “change” now and nominate a conservative man or woman and not another lib to appease the lib’s as that is what he seems to be all about. Appeasement to the lib’s like teddy the swimmer.

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. Socialist.

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Traiters
When are we going to start hanging the traiters amungst us.
We are in a war for sirvival against the muslime fascists.
Wake up America!

One Effect
There will be a lot fewer prisoners that would be taken in battle.

Amen
baseballdoc
Location: TX

Reply # 72
Date: Jun 24, 2008 - 10:37 AM EST STONEWALL JACKSON

.....When the Court ruled against Jackson he said, in effect, ..."They made their decision now let's see them enforce it" ...

.....We don't have Presidents like that anymore, especially Republican Presidents ...


DANG RIGHT. WE NEED MORE PRESIDENTS LIKE OLD STONEWALL JACKSON!

Stonewall Jackson
was a civil war hero who was killed by his own men coming back from a scouting mission.

The "Jackson" who ya'll are quoting is good old Andrew "Kill the Cherokees" Jackson. His quote deals with the Cherokees when the State of GA was taking their land which was protected by treaty.

Another "taking" by the government.

H. D.
Welcome to this Great Nation albeit 52 years late. You see the problem is the few, (McCain, peso George, Obambi and all the amnesty congress critters) have all the power and will not listen to the will of the people who want the fence built and the criminals and terrorist stopped at the border. And do not let the other side BS you, we can afford to deport. We can not afford not to.
We had this same problem, not listening to the people, over 200 years ago and the people finally did something about it, and I fear that maybe it will need to be done again in order to secure OUR country.
We have as a nation always taken in the huddled masses. I am sure my family at some time, not unlike yours, came huddled to this nation yearning for freedom and we should keep doing so IN a lawful way. Contrary to what some would say, we never give up our culture, rather we learn a new one and intermix it with ours. I see nothing wrong in keeping with this tradition, but alas some would just throw open the doors and let anyone in and security and laws be dammed.
I hope I have shed some light on this and as I said, welcome to our nation and the fray.

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. "Socialist"

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Re President Jackson:
I mentioned this last week, right after the idiotic decision was announced. I just hope President Bush has guts enough to emulate Old Hickory.

Let me correct that last post somewhat
The State of GA had already been working to evict the Cherokees. The statement was referring to a SCOTUS ruling on a law passed by congress, The Indian Removal Act. That was the "taking".

Look, hereis what this decision has done
Here is one of the terrorist supporters right here on this board.
Now these murdering scum get to have a voice in our government.
Read what this terrorist supporter is allowed to come and say:

-----

If_two_plus_two_makes_four Location: CA
writes:
5:41 AM EST
One can hardly believe
that we are reading the legal opinions of a television actor.
----
ts:
Well if you terrorist scum get the right to the legal system of America.
I do believe a United States Senator should also have as mush a right to speak up as you Osama Ben Laden supporters, murdering scum, terrorist cowardly women and children killers get.
Why would you think you murdering scum have more rights to speak up than a United States Senator?

Well you do not have any more rights then he does, even if 5 brain dead anti-American traitors sitting on a Federal Bench say you do.




Moonbat Exterminator
Al Quiada took over Afghanistan and established the Taliban as the ruling government. Al Quiada was in control of, and directed, the Taliban. Afghanistan was still recognized as a sovereign nation despite the governing authority that overtook it (much like the left-wing liberals - Kennedy, McCain, Pelosi, Graham, Bush).

When Al Quiada attacked the United States it was an act of war carried out by the ruling authority of a sovereign state.

Although Al Quiada may have had a camp in Iraq, Al Quiada did not control the governmental, nor military, authority of that nation.

On your other point. When a military begins making monetary payments for information, it is asking for problems. Such is the case of the majority of "enemy combatants" at Gitmo.

Most of these people were turned in by rival war lords and golddiggers looking for a quick buck. The majority of "enemy combatants" were not captured on the battlefield; they were taken from their homes in the middle of the night at the word of some golddigger.

Check the D.O.D. records. Seeing that you are very knowledgeable about these issues, that should not be hard for you at all. As you dig through the "available" information you will discover some pretty amazing stuff that will open your eyes to a more well rounded understanding.

Supreme Courts decision
Fred Thompson is a good Attorny, good Senator and a good actor. A fair writer.
The ruling by this court on Boumediene Vs Bush, should never, and I really mean NEVER, have been
allowed to come up. So how did it.
1st of all, we took terrorist detainese from a combat zone, that in the courts eyes was not a legally declared WAR zone, and placed them on a base under their Juristdiction.
2nd, Terrorists are not soldiers of a nation, which negates the Geneva Convention, but Ideology. Buy placing them in or on Soil under the control of the US Government, being that the Supreme Court is apart of said Government. These Terrorist are under the `Leter of the Law' of these United States.
The right to a fair and quick trial of its peers and the right to challenge all evidence brought before the courts against them.
The Administration and now `good ol Fred' is
trying to say, no the law does not mean that.
Well it does and that protects us from languishing in some cell for years on a charge of nothing.
I agree with him in that it is now a `Pandora's Box' of trouble and intrigue. For as much as we want to see each and every one of these SOB's shrivel up into nothing and die. We wil now have to try each of them and listen to each one defame and desicrate, our great nations name and our God's teachings.
It should have never come to this, and the true responsible people for it, are the laimo's we have impowered to run the country.

Gomez from OR
Go back to school and reread the newspaper.
You are so off base with that statement.

A terrorist supporter
Writes:

If_two_plus_two_makes_four

Are you cons, like Talent Scout, actually in favor of the U.S. government holding anyone, whether foreign or citizen, it hardly matters, because "enemy status" is hardly a difficult charge to make, are you really in favor of the U.S. government holding people in secret detention where the only rights are to be heard by a secret tribunal?
----
ts:
I am in favor of not giving you terrorist supporters any more rights than you give the women and children you murder.

I say tooth for tooth, eye for eye is the only Justice System you deserve.
When you terrorist supporters come to being civilized and agree to treat everyone else with respect as to their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and equal protections of the law.....I will be happy to make an agreement with you.
Until you do that yourselves, I am for giving you the exact same justice you give.
NONE, but the end of a gun.

Give and ye shall receive is my motto
----
If_two_plus_two_makes_four writes:
Then, I say it again, get out of this country. This country was founded by people who believed in the "rights" of "people". You have no place in this country.
---
ts:
I am in Colorado and I am not going anywhere Osama.
Thanks for revealing to us you are not dead yet and coming here giving us a clue you live in California.

I would appreciate the opportunity to see you come and make me leave America, punk.

Vic writes:
Subject: If_two_plus_two_makes_four
My my my, what an ignorant fool you are.

May I add that I would take legal advice from Fred before I would ALL the little Caesar left wing kool aid swill drinking lawyers in kalifornia.
Vic, ts, what did you expect from the land of hollyweird?
Yea baby, you have some great legal minds out there. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!
Tnx for laugh, BTW who added that name up for you?

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. Socialist.

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean



Boumediene
With this ruling the Supreme Idiots have left our country with only ONE avenue of action:

Instruct all military, FBI and other federal government employees as follows:

Do NOT take any prisoners - shoot them
dead on the spot !

Vic @6:54AM: RE 2+2=4..

Bet you $.25 that 2+2=4 listens very carefully to Soranden, Penn, Steisand, and those Hollywood actor idiots.


Regardless is u like it or not byrce
Rules of Evidence has nothing to do with granting Habeas Corpus to Civil Courts to those arrested by the US Military as enemy combatants.

----


bryce writes:
The fact remains that military law is subject to due process provisions, the court has ruled on this consistently since the early 1800s.
---
ts:
The USMCJ is DUE PROCESS.
What is about that you do not understand?
---
bryce writes:
No system of adjudication which allows for hearsay and evidence through coercion passes Constitutional muster.

-----
ts:
I can accept that, so the rules of Evidence need look at and worked out.
But this is about granting habeas corpus to enemy combatants.
Do you not understand what the argument is about yet?

Take a deep breath, relax and I will explain it again in simple terms you should be able to grasp.

Those arrested by the US Military are under Martial Law.
Civil Courts have no Jurisdiction.
Capiche?

Its really that simple and settled Law.
Already decided in 1950 by the United States Supreme Court.

Johnson v. Eisentrager.

Read it
Already taken care of and its settled.
What is left and not settled is the impeachment process against 5 traitors to their oaths of office to uphold the Law and the US Constitution.

Lets get it started

Gomez
Your point is moot because the Taliban was offered a deal to hand AQ over. They did not. Therefore had they been in say, France and had France not turned them over the result would have been the same. Make sense?

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. Socialist.

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

ts
Read it
Already taken care of and its settled.
What is left and not settled is the impeachment process against 5 traitors to their oaths of office to uphold the Law and the US Constitution.
Lets get it started

Agreed UPHOLD AND NOT CHANGE!

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Doc, you're right.
This country has been conquered from within. I have quoted Eisenhower before:

"The political processes of our country are such that if a rule of reason is not applied in this effort, we will lose everything--even to a possible and drastic change in the Constitution. This is what I mean by my constant insistence upon "moderation" in government. Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas.5 Their number is negligible and they are stupid. "

As I said read: "The House of War" if you have time between Fox News danger alerts.


A Valid Point
Gomez writes:
11:36 AM EST


On your other point. When a military begins making monetary payments for information, it is asking for problems. Such is the case of the majority of "enemy combatants" at Gitmo.

Most of these people were turned in by rival war lords and golddiggers looking for a quick buck. The majority of "enemy combatants" were not captured on the battlefield; they were taken from their homes in the middle of the night at the word of some golddigger.

Check the D.O.D. records. Seeing that you are very knowledgeable about these issues, that should not be hard for you at all. As you dig through the "available" information you will discover some pretty amazing stuff that will open your eyes to a more well rounded understanding.
----
ts:
This is the major reason the Hamden Case was decided and the detainees were given all the rights Senator Thompson SPELLS OUT IN THIS VERY ARTICLE.

Did you not read it?

ts
And they made it clear enough that even a retarded SCOTUS should have understood it!
Johnson v. Eisentrager, in it was written:

We hold that the Constitution does not confer a right of personal security or an immunity from military trial and punishment upon an alien enemy engaged in the hostile service of a government at war with the United States.

It is not for us to say whether these prisoners were or were not guilty of a war crime, or whether if we were to retry the case we would agree to the findings of fact or the application of the laws of war made by the Military Commission. The petition shows that these prisoners were formally accused of violating the laws of war and fully informed of particulars of these charges.

As it is now, except these are not in uniform soldiers, but cowards hiding among women and children and are still in pursuit of our demise! Frack them, they deserve less than the civility they have shown others, which has been none!


“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean



to Vic
Don't bore me with the ad hominums (yes, this is If_two_plus - that's the moniker I use from my macbook air, which I can carry around like a pad of paper.) I already know that's the only defense you cons have.

The beginning of the Constitution stands, inspite of your craven, cornered dog, intellect: "We THE PEOPLE of the United States of America". It does NOT mention citizens. Don't give me lies about citizenship.

So, I'm a traitor. Yet, your president lied us into war, murdered perhaps hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians of a country that represented no threat to us, and now claims, the right to override treaties, and laws that have been long established.

Your ignorance and fear have no place in a great country like ours. Examine your fear. First of all, are you proud of it? I'm sure you are. Second, it stems from a single event, that didn't even happen where you live in Indiana. More people are killed in car accidents by TEN times than that one event. AND as I have said before, it would have been very difficult for the arabs you fear so much to have placed all the explosives, secondary explosives, huge explosives that were clearly placed in those buildings. Very difficult. If you believe that Arabs could have placed the explosives, then you are certifiably insane.

All that fear, two wars, and massive profits to the companies owned by the likes of Cheney and Bush.

And yet, I am the traitor.

Doc/Anne
What I can not fathom is why anyone would choose a name like "If 2+2 = 4"". The only thing I can figure out is they subscribe to the "truth is relative" way of life.

Doc writes: "... impeachment process

against 5 traitors to their oaths of office to uphold the Law and the US Constitution."

And we could START with Ginsburg who has taken a fancy to using Foreign Law in interpreting OUR Constitution.

Was that somewhere in the oath she took? Did I miss that, or something???

Supreme Court Oath:

The Constitution specifies no details for the oath of office for the Supreme Court:
Constitution, Article 6 - Debts, Supremacy, Oaths

According to Title 28, Chapter I, Part 453 of the United States Code, each Supreme Court Justice takes the following oath:

"I, [NAME], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as [TITLE] under the Constitution and laws of the United States.
So help me God."
===============================================

Nope, no "international law" mentioned there!

My favorite
My favorite story would be.......
Gomez goes to Gitmo......courtesy of the US military.....under arrest

trughes
I don't watch fox news as of late as they have become a willing part of the problem. And I have never said I want my country torn apart. Rather I would rather see my leaders use a little common sense (like securing our borders, see links below)and I see NONE coming from the people running for POTUS, and very little coming from SCOTUS. I am with talent scout, they should be recalled for not doing their job properly. If they can't read, they have no business being on the bench do they now?

http://judicialwatch.org/blog/islamic-terrorists-arrested- u-s-mexico-border

http://judicialwatch.org/http%3A//www.corruptionchronicles .com/2007/05/illegal_immigrants_helped_plan.html

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

trughes
Yep you are right for the first time today....you are a traitor

GommyGoomy
Congress does not have Constitutional authority to strip the Supreme Court of anything.

SECTION. 2.
The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; - to all Cases affecting Ambassadors,other public Ministers and consuls; - to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; - to Controversies to
which the United States shall be a Party; - to Controversies between two or more States; - [between a State and Citizens of another State;-]* between Citizens of different States,
- between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, [and between a State, or the Citizens thereof;- and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.]

Note: States, as defined then, are what we call nations today. King George did not recognize the "United States" at the treaty of Versailles; he recognized the sovereignty of the 13 States (nations).

You can see a nice clean copy of the Constitution at: http://www.thompsoncoalition.com/constitution.html

trughes
Hundreds of thousands?

Exaggerate much?

good grief quit foaming at the mouth.

trughes sayz to ts:
Your ignorance and fear have no place in a great country like ours.

Whose country? Yours, Obambi’s, and Osami's? I don’t see in it where it says that only kool aid drinkers get to decide what is “our great nation.” You and yours would hand it over with out a fight? Sorry, a lot of us CITIZENS were not raised like that. If you want it your way, you do have to first take it from the ones who want to keep it free. Some how, I do not see that going on what with peace, love, and gun control.

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean


trughes starts with tr
Examine your fear. First of all, are you proud of it?

Yup, tnx to it, I am still breathing because of it.
Are you related to tr? Nope, on second thought, you can spell or at least know how to use a spell checker. But, like him, your BDS knows no bounds.

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Doc
I don't know what you are smoking but you are the one not making any sense

"Your point is moot because the Taliban was offered a deal to hand AQ over. They did not. Therefore had they been in say, France and had France not turned them over the result would have been the same. Make sense?"

Maybe you need pictures to be drawn for you.

The Taliban was the governing authority in Afghanistan. The Taliban was controlled by Al Quiada. Al Quida attacked the United States. We had every right to attack Afghanistan. What is the moot point in this? What don't you understand?

Al Quida was not in control and running Iraq. There is a major difference between Afghanistan and Iraq whether you like it or not.

Gomez sayz
Al Quida was not in control and running Iraq. There is a major difference between Afghanistan and Iraq whether you like it or not.

Actually, I have misread you because I thought you were talking about only Afghanistan. My mistake, and my ignorance because I should have known you people with BDS will never leave Iraq alone. Even if you do not look at all of your precious UN sanctions and all the cease fire terms he violated, and forgetting food for oil scam with said UN and its leaders, and forgetting the WMD’s although we all know he had them (see Kurd women and children) we still had a general push for nations not to harbor AQ in any way shape or form and Iraq was one of those guilty nations.
Iraq will be better off for it, if left alone by the surrender monkey’s from the US. Give the Iraq’s and our boys and girls a chance to finish the job and you will see a better Iraq. Little doubt that they want it.

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean


Excellent research, Anne
Anne writes:
12:35 PM EST
Subject: Supreme Court Oath:

The Constitution specifies no details for the oath of office for the Supreme Court:
Constitution, Article 6 - Debts, Supremacy, Oaths

According to Title 28, Chapter I, Part 453 of the United States Code, each Supreme Court Justice takes the following oath:

"I, [NAME], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as [TITLE] under the Constitution and laws of the United States.
So help me God."
===============================================

Nope, no "international law" mentioned there!

----

Judges are under the same law we all are.
No better and no worse, and their OATH is given without any reservations or LOOP HOLES.

They are to be held to the US Constitution AS WRITTEN and made to SWEAR THIS OATH TO UPHOLD.
At the expense of an Impeachment if they do not live up to their Oaths.

We have 5 who are NOT living up to this Oath.
Even Judge Marshall comments the Court is held to written law, to have the power to REVIEW ANY CASE.

Marbury-Madison

loser scribbles:
you lose
all this arguement and discussion and all it really bioils down to is that you are in effect argueing with the people on the fifteenth planet from the sun

Come on back to this planet, stop throwing your poop around like a monkey, and we will take you back in. Now this one I do think is TR. Vote any of you sane people out there? Back in a few people, and you out of this world poop throwing
aliens.

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

mrcmrc AGAIN adds his insufferable,

nonsensical blah...blah... blah.

Undoubtedly, it's worth about as much as a plug nickle, but who can tell?


A little early in the AM to be under the influence???


Nazi's
After WWII our intelligence services knew that many Nazi's escaped to Argentina. But our government never requested that the Argentinian government turn over these war crimminals. And, we never invaded Argentina to get them. You use faulty logic Doc.

The UN
The U.S. has no business selling itself to the U.N. Look at where most of our problems come from ... the UN.

The bottom line is, terrorists belong dead on the battlefield; it is insane to bring them here or to any territory controlled by the U.S. If he has a gun in his hand, and he is not one of us, then he should be dead. That is what resolves the issues.

But our great all knowing and all intelligent government that wants us to be paranoid about terrorists continues to invite them in legally and illegally; to give them amnesty; and leave the borders wide open for their entrance.

If terrorism is what Bush and his cronies want us to believe it is, why hasn't Bush secured the borders and removed the illegals?

I don't know about you, but I am fed up with the good cop/bad cop routine of the Democrat and Republican parties. They are all a bunch of lying frauds moving to destroy the Constitution and instill the Elite class.

To call John McCain a Conservative is like calling Adolph Hitler a pacifist. Either way you vote, McCain or Obami, you are only going to get more of the same. Vote for the lesser of two evils - how hillariously ludicrous.

The list of protections...
reads like those of someone charged with a crime.

This illustrates that the Court sees terrorism as a crime rather than an act of war.


This Case is so Wrong
In Many areas, and I just remembered another one.

Ex Post Facto



An ex post facto law (from the Latin for "After The Fact") or retroactive law, is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences of acts committed or the legal status of facts and relationships that existed prior to the enactment of the law.

In reference to criminal law, it may criminalize OR decriminalize actions that were legal/ollegal when committed;

or it may aggravate a crime by bringing it into a more severe category than it was in at the time it was committed;

No Legislation is legal that is Ex Post Facto.
Us Constitution
Article 1
Section 9
clause 3
Right after Article 1 Section 9 Clause 2 speaks of Habeas Corpus.

C. 2
The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

C. 3
No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
For the hard of hearing

No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed

Missed the Worst Part
The worst part of the whole decision was that the Supreme Court invalidated Article III Section 2 of the constitution. They said, effectively, "Congress can limit our review power, but we don't care!" That is yet one more step toward judicial tyranny in the US.

They already make up laws and rights, now they are saying congress doesn't even have the power to limit their ability to review.

Now all they have to do is to make themselves arbiters of who fills vacancies and they will be answerable to no one.

Maybe they can argue thanks to the difficulty in filling vacancies tot he federal bench they should have the right to make emergency appointments?

umm...
Just read the posts and spotted something a bit off...

Stonewall was the civil war general. Andrew was the president.

Didn't see anyone else correcting this. If they did, sorry for the duplication. (Hard to quickly scan 100+ posts.)

ts sayz:
No better and no worse, and their OATH is given without any reservations or LOOP HOLES.

May I add to that “time limit?” When I took mine a few years (ahem) ago, I took it seriously and for life. That I know of, no oath has a time limit.

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean


Andrew Jackson's example
Do the posters who praise Jackson's denial of the SCOTUS realize that the case in question involved the court ruling that the gov't did not have the right to force Native Americans off their land once gold had been discovered there?

Is this really the standard by which our nation should be operating in the 21st century?

After Reading
The rights already afforded to the detainees under the Law Congress enacted, this decision makes no sense.

Military tribunals and the UCMJ provided adequate protections, plus the procedures from Congress added more.

Should just march them to the front gate of Gitmo and say "See ya. Have a fun trip home."

Would be thanking the Cubans for the Mariel Sea Lift when they emptied their prisons.

Gomes sayz:
After WWII our intelligence services knew that many Nazi's escaped to Argentina. But our government never requested that the Argentinian government turn over these war crimminals. And, we never invaded Argentina to get them. You use faulty logic Doc.

Un not so much. You see we no longer had fear of them sneaking into our country and massacring thousands of UNARMED civilians. I think we should have been pro-active just like Israel was and went after the murderous Nazi scumbags. Probably too many lily livered lib’s here, even back then, scared to go after our enemy’s. Same as today.
You people need to wake the frac up, these people want to see your head lying on the floor separate from your body. And unless you are willing to turn to Muslim, that is all AQ and its like minded scumbags want.
As for me, they will have to chop off mine to get me to capitulate, only way it will ever happen

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean



The problem Hard Thought
Is that the detainee laws in question did not provide due process protection. Hearsay and evidence obtained by coercion are antitheitcal to due process.

Gomez
Sorry if I have been misreading you, but in part you do sound like a lib with BDS.
Are you an RP supporter? If so, that makes more sense. The reason I ask is because most of what you are preaching falls on like minded ears.
In fact I do hold peso George responsible for not securing this country. McCain and his little lib friends too!
But I will never have BDS because I think he did the right things most of the time, like the tax breaks and the WOT for examples. And people need to smarten up about it. It could be the death of a nation yet.

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

And As I Said
last week Senator, you know as well as I that Pres. Bush has NO constitutional obligation to honor this ruling. During the Andrew Jackson Admin., there was an Indian issue that was pretty intense going on, and John Marshall of the SCOTUS ruled gainst what Jackson preferred to see, so good ole Andrew said "let him enforce it then' (referring to Chief Justice John Marshall) and Jackson was within his EXECUTIVE constitutional right to do so. I still cannot fathom how a SCOTUS ruling becomes law of the land by default. I thought law making was the function of the legislature. Did something change?

bryce sayz:
Is that the detainee laws in question did not provide due process

Un yes it did. That is why some were released.
Money pay outs were a bad idea, but I am not sure how you get people to cough up bad people, when they do not yet understand the word "Patriot." If they had this pride, money would have never been necessary.
But as I said, I am not sure what other tool they could have used.

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

problem solved
unfortunately, the SC has put our country in jeopardy and our court system will probably be turned upside down with all the current detainees and their counsels. In order to stem off any further days in court, we should order our military to take no prisoners!!!

bryce
Does the subject matter of a decision mean it is wrong?

Just because Jackson's comment had to do with evicting Cherokees does not mean it is a bad precedent.

For that matter, let me really offend you, Dred Scott, in as far as it said the government could not strip a citizen of property rights simply because the right to property was recognized by one state and not by another, was a good decision. That we recognized humans as property is a problem, but the ruling was correct.

There, sufficiently offended?

Sorry, but just because the subject matter offends does not mean the legal principle is bad.

We can argue about whether or not Jackson had the authority to refuse to enforce a Supreme Court ruling, but just because he was arguing over a matter moderns find offensive does not change the legal principles involved.

Doc
What about the Uighars?

to those that wondered
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

It isn't an exact quote but captures the meaning, and it removes the super correct english grammar of a pluralized plus, treating plus as though it's an "and".

bryce
I am sure China has no SCOTUS because of things like this:
http://www.islamicawakening.com/viewnews.php?=&newsID=2559
Also be sure that as I have stated, I do not wish Muslims harm in general, no more than I do atheists. They are not right, but they have their beliefs and I have mine.
And as far as I know, the Uighars have never been a threat to the US.
However, AQ is a clear and present danger!

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Doc
As you state, the Uighars are not enemies of the US, yet several have been lanquishing at GITMO nearly 5 years after the military deemed them not to have been involved in hostilites against the US.

scotus
it would seem that liberals in the u.s. are hell bent on suicide, the death of their country. what is wrong with these people? there is absolutely no reason for the court to give non citizens the same protection as u.s. citizens. this is treason. impeach the bastards and lock them up.

bryce
That I will have to look up for myself. But please remember we have many people imprisoned here in the US wrongfully and usually through mistakes made by human beings. And their only hope almost in all cases turns out to be DNA evidence. The prosecutors in gitmo do not have that luxury and until proven otherwise I refuse to believe anyone is being held there simply because they are Muslim.
Do you know how they were picked up or turned over? I wonder what they were doing where they were when they were arrested.

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Bigmick, the Moveon operative
"McShame is actually more of a long term danger to the Republic" ??

How can he be MORE of a "long term danger" to something that will cease to exist in the short term if fools like you vote for Obama?

And don't kid yourself...a vote for anything or anyone other than the ONE candidate that stands a chance of beating back the Obamaniacs is a vote to kill the Republic.

W/O=

2=2
I called you no names but since you ask for it I'll just say you are dumber than a creosote post.

Everything you said is wrong, including your little hate Bush scenario. So in fact you have learned all your knowledge regarding the Constitution from comic books.

Don't bother replying, I'll just scroll by.

I Am Sans Pareil
And don't kid yourself...a vote for anything or anyone other than the ONE candidate that stands a chance of beating back the Obamaniacs is a vote to kill the Republic.

And if we give in and hold our nose, it will be taken as a sign of giving in. Then will we be forced to hold our nose next time and that person is more leftist than McCain? And the time after that? And the time after that? Can you see what I am getting at?
My problem is the two parties. The leftist have already invaded and taken over the Dem party and I think they are in the process of trying for this one as evident by McCain. Where do we draw the line and make a stand?

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Unintended (?) Consequence
Recently, a detainee was given the green light for release from GITMO & a return to his homneland. He declined to go, at least just yet, explaining he would wait until spring because it was "too hot" in Iraq during the summer.

This ruling will allow for EVERY detainee and possible terrorist to apply for asylum. And with no grounds to hold them in detention they will be able to walk freely among us while awaiting their hearings on asylum (and there will be thousands of them so it won't take just hours or days to hear them all)

If Obama or McCain closes GITMO and moves them all to the mainland (Fort Leavenworth Kansas for instance) they could be strolling around YOUR town with nothing to do.

Even if only a small percentage of these guys are REAL AQ types do you want them checking out the mall, the dams, water & food supplies in your area?

I suppose there is the chance they might just do the regular things "tourists" do...yeah right.

W/O=

ALL - digusted mess
I have spent the last 3 hours trying to uninstall Windows Vista from a new laptop I ordered for my Grandson. What a mess. Windows has done everything they can do to make it virtually impossible to get it off the computer. It will not even let you format the hard drive.

The come here to rest and see the liberals out there posting their garbage. It is taking a lot for me to not go off on a bannable tirade right now.

But instead I'll go and work on Vista some more.

Vic
What hard drive does it have?

KENNEDY
Seems to me its time to start impeachment proceedings against justice kennedy.

Repeating a rah rah rah
bryce writes:- 3:10 PM EST
The problem Hard Thought
Is that the detainee laws in question did not provide due process protection. Hearsay and evidence obtained by coercion are antitheitcal to due process.
----
ts:
Does not decide a winner or a loser.
This is like cheer leading for a team that has lost the game.
No matter how many times you repeat this, its untrue.

ALL rules and regulations, due process, punishments and rights fall under Article 1 section 8 that falls under the Power of Congress, not a Civil Court.

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to...

1. To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

2. To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

3. To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

Do you care what the Constitution has to say in whose Judgemnt and power the detainees are under?
Appears you do not care, but I do, and so do all who love this country.
Could be you are ignorant of this, but now you are not.





Whosebone
Subject: KENNEDY

Makes one wonder what in the blue blazes was Ronnie thinking?
Nice to be seeing more common sense coming from CA.

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Jacksonian approach
President Jackson famously said: "Justice Marshal has made his decision, now let him enforce it."

Perhaps President Bush doesn't have the clout to get away with that, but it might be amusing if Congress had the stones to minimize the further damage the Kennedy Court can do to the country by vesting exclusive jurisdiction over detainee Habeas petitions in the Supreme Court. Strip all the lower courts of jurisdiction and let the Boumediene 5 spend all of their time for the next couple years deciding these petitions. Maybe they'll even get sufficiently fed up that they'll overturn this hideous decision.

Unfortunately, impeachment proceedings against Justice Kennedy aren't feasible. The only Supreme Court justice to face impeachment wasn't convicted by the Senate -- 1805 Justice Samuel Chase, impeached by the House for making decisions based on politics not law. Sound familiar?

Cheers

Doc
It is a SATA drive and that is what appears to be the problem. Apparently Vista has native drivers for SATA where as XP does not. Tis is what kept giving me the error message when I tried to install XP.

I have gone into the BIOS and turned off auto SATA recognition and it looks like it is now loading. I'll know by tommorrow. I think things were actually easier back in the old DOS days.

I think I still have a copy of dos 2.11 around, LOL.

talent and others...and gomez..now what?
TALENT - YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN A CONSTITUTIONAL
ATTY.! YOU ARE SOMETHING ELSE, MAN!

OTHERS- NOW WHAT? WHAT CAN BE DONE TO RENDER THIS DANGEROUS DECISION POWERLESS? CAN LEGISLATURE OFF SET IT?

GOMEZ- INVASION OF IRAQ! DID GERMANY INVADE US?
DID N. KOREA INVADE US? DID VIET NAM INVADE US?
ARE WE GOING TO LET THE TERRORISTS INVADE US?
OOOPS! EXCUSE ME, THEY ALREADY HAVE-DUH!
ELVIS


Vic
LOL 2.11 sometimes old is better!

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Doc
Of course I see your point.
But THIS election is NOT the time to rebel!
What we really MUST do is make sure this situation NEVER happens again...even challenging a sitting President who is obviously NOT conservative with a solid conservative in 2012.

We cannot allow BIG Media & the Lib-Dems to dictate the ground rules & choose our candidate for us again either!!!

But '08 is what we are fighting for now...and given a choice of McCain or Obama...well, even Bush Lite is better than Jimmy Carter Jr.

W/O=

Time to go and
work on that mess again. Ya'll be good.

Living History
"The success of the cause, the union of the people, and the means of supporting and securing both, are points which cannot be too much attended to. He who doubts of the former is a desponding coward, and he who willfully disturbs the latter is a traitor."

Thomas Paine


W/O=

Ok Sam
Say I give in and vote for the little aisle jumper. Now please answer my question. What do I do if the next time its say, between an ex puke from the bench like Kennedy and an ex puke from Kalifornia Barbra Boxer?

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Doc
If THIS type of crap continues to pollute the process it might just be time to consider self-preservation because revolution or civil war can't be far off.

I am of the mind that if the groundwork for a 3rd party is laid down now it could be successful in 2012 (2014 mid-terms or 2016 at the very latest).

I think more people from both parties are fed up with the career politicians in DC and on the states' level as well than is being publicized. Not all Dems are Lib-Socialists, it only stands to reason there are more God-Fearing Patriots than there are the boisterous minority. Their party has been hijacked just like ours has and,
combining forces might be the last & best hope for the Republic.

W/O=

Ok Sam
That is why I ask questions, to get food for thought. Tnx and goodnight all.

NOW WHAT???
AS A NATION....what do we do to eliminate this dangerous,idiotic decision ?
There must be some good ideas for a solution?
elvis

elvis
Why was it a bad decision? America has never taken enemy combatants, holed them up somewhere, tortured them, and then declare they can't have rights. Scalia ought to be impeached for this.

Not due American Judicial rights.
Wouldn't it just be simpler to take no enemies?
If they are shown in combat as enemy warriors who choose not to surrender, then solve their problems kill them and then they won't demand their rights.
If they choose to surrender, incarerate them until the war is over. Feed them decent food, clothe them against the weather, but make them earn their keep by growing their own food. But as for a trial, they are not American Citizens and do not qualify for Ameican Jurisprudence.

Talent Scout
It is really surprising that with all your legal arguments that you fail to recognise that the U.S. is a terrorist nation of long standing. Guatemala showed us the value to using airpower, dropping bombs from airplanes on the capital to force people to oppose Arbenz. The Firebombing of Tokyo and Dresden were absolutely inhumane. Don't give me **** about the regimes, we targeted culture and non-war populations.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki come to mind.

The military industrial complex, lobbyists, manufacturers, bribemakers and pigs at the trough all have murdered far more than all the "terrorists" from whom you think we are being defended.

Someone asked if I was foaming at the mouth...I would ask that person to review your blood-vessel bursting rants.

You are, simply put, wrong. The first principle of this country is the rule of law. And it is very clear that your supposed Rule of the Commander in Chief, is absolutely contrary to every principle set forth in our Constitution.

Our founders were smarter than that. What would happen, for example if someone started an unnecessary war, they asked themselves. And so should you.

Rondak
That is what we have basically always done in our history. In fact, I think I read that it's against the GC to take combatants out of the country they where caught at. Gitmo has been nothing but an embarrassment and mistake form the beginning.

IMPEACH the SCOTUS FIVE
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/PFROG/index.html

Send this petition link to everyone you know. We must get their attention!

Joyyyy
What did they do any other SCOTUS would have done in our nation's history?

Scalia's Lies
"At least 30 of those prisoners hitherto released from Guantanamo Bay have returned to the battlefield."

By the time he said this, it had already been debunked and the number lowered to 12.

The Seton Hall researchers
"Of the twelve, five (5) are listed as “killed” (one of whom is ISN 220, a Kuwaiti national whose story is spelled out below), and one is listed as “at large.” There are five more listed as “arrested” and only one listed as “captured.” It is not clear what the distinction is, but it may indicate where the apprehension occurred – “on the battlefield” or elsewhere. The “arrested individuals” included two Moroccans, two Russians, and one Turkish national, all of whom were arrested in their home country. There is no information about the charges filed, nor any information that these individuals attacked or plan to attack America. Further, it is not clear that actions against Morocco, Russia, and Turkey can be fairly characterized as "return[ing] to the fight"

Taft Continues Nonsense
Taft offers, "America has never taken enemy combatants, holed them up somewhere, tortured them, and then declare they can't have rights."

Agreed. No more than they have to date. Another non-sequitur. So, what's your point?

RE: Out of Control, 6/23/08 9:10 PM Post
TO:American Girl 1650 Location: NY
Post Date: Jun 23, 2008 - 9:10 PM EST

I totally agree with your comments. The "Flag as Offensive" link below your posting was clicked by mistake, when my cat jumped up on the keyboard tray & left-clicked the mouse when she landed on it. I couldn't find a way to change it back-sorry!

Trughes Offers Emotional Hyperbole
trughes offers, "It is really surprising that with all your legal arguments that you fail to recognise that the U.S. is a terrorist nation of long standing."

Interesting opinion, but the world seems to act otherwise, voting with their feet, even from Guatemala, doing everything possible to come to our shores and live in this terrorist nation.

You may not like the way America responds to threats, but your hyperbolic description of "terrorist" sounds more emotional than insightful.


Taking Prisoners Is A Mortal Risk
Elvis asks, "AS A NATION....what do we do to eliminate this dangerous,idiotic decision ?"

Good question. Taking prisoners is a very dangerous job. Most combatants just kill all percieved enemies and take the risk out of the equation. Americans are unusual in that they do risk their lives to take prisoners over killing. This decision makes that risk look futile.



You lunatics have gone off the deep end
Are you guys really talking about killing everybody we come in contact with? Are you talking about taking an accusation from a jealous neighbor and killing the accused?

You are simply obscene.

Most of the detainees at Guantanamo Bay, an United States administered prison facility have been turned in by word of mouth. THAT'S WHY MANY OF THEM HAVE BEEN RELEASED AFTER FIVE YEARS!! There's not a shred of evidence against them. But you in your blind craven fear think they should be killed. What about their children.

What about your children??? They would then live under the same set of laws. Do you not worry about that?

This is the epitaph of the conservative movement, you have simply been driven insane with the fear you were handed on 9-11.

But it really doesn't exist. The only ones who could have pulled off 9-11 are the ones you want to put in charge of everything. No one but the very highest levels of this government could have gotten the military to be so confused and to not have sent up intercepts that day. 70 times in the previous year off-course planes were intercepted. The system worked. Until, under orders, and sworn to defend their military chain of command, those brave men were ordered to watch Americans murdered and monuments (and dinosaurs) of (somewhat misguided) civilization blown to smithereens by well-placed explosives.

There is nothing to fear from the outside world.

As someone once said: “A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
W. Durant. “Socialist”

Subject: Don't watch this
http://youtube.com/watch?v=K3dAnSMzUlo&feature=related

And I thought Tricky Dick was paranoid. He has nothing on GW

The Apple Doesn't Fall Far From the Tree
The truth about Fred Thompson is found right here in Rush Limbaugh's book:

I have been reading Rush Limbaugh's book, "The Way It Ought To Be", published in 1992. In a chapter near the end called, "Year of the Outsiders" my eyes became saucers at some observations. Look at how very similar the situation was in 1992 and compare it to Fred Thompson today.

You don't fall far from the tree, do you Fred!

mac moore
I would say name-calling and accusations of "idiot" and "traitor" are slightly more indicative of emotionality. Actually, having a single counter argument, would indicate rational thought.

You present the end result of about 1 million different causes (continued immigration or voting with their feet) to counter my argument that America has destroyed viable governments and whole nations with terrorism. Your point, in fact, corroborates my point. Yes, people will naturally flock to the nation that has the power to kill wontonly, destroy democratically elected governments and make life a living and dying hell in their countries. We the United States of America funded Death squads. Are you proud of that? No wonder so many people hate us. Death squads are profoundly odious. But it is not a wonder that they would choose to migrate here, when no viable life is possible in their country, thanks to us.

Thank you for that.

I like to present evidence. Unfortunately, the conservative movement is a belief based movement. So, I can't really hope for anything but an wide-eyed, horrified response.

All who love America, sign this
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/PFROG/index.html

Shut up trughes, you are too stupid to argue with and should be in a padded cell somewhere, in Saudi Arabia where you come from.
Go home you terrorist lover.


Elvis
I have been schooled in Law.
Last thing on earth I want to be is a lawyer though.

I have a higher calling.

Just one example
Much attention was paid to the detainee Hamdm, but little was made of a prisoner arrested the same day. The man, Boujaadia was determined not to be a threat to the US or its' interests, and was scheduled for release in late 2006 was kept in prison for an additional 18 months because of the military's decision to use him as a witness in the Hamdm hearing.

Wrap your mind around this scenario. The man is deemed to be fit for release yet is held, in prison, for 18 months because he is a potential witness in another hearing.

By what measure is that due process?

So Talent Scout
Where do the Uighurs fit into your assertions that this system meets due process provisions?

I notice you live in MI.
bryce 1:34 AM EST
Subject: So Talent Scout
Where do the Uighurs fit into your assertions that this system meets due process provisions?
---

Which City?
Would it be Dearborn?
Very curious due to how you make arguments.
Explain yourself and make you comments what you are talking about with the Uighurs.
What do you know about them?

Put up some details of what you have on YOUR mind.

.
"Go home you terrorist lover."

Ah yes, the ultimate conservative argument.

Congress needs to restrict the Supreme
Court. Congress has the power to circumscribe the Supreme Court's, and by extension, inferior courts' jurisdiction.

Article III, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution states:
"... the Supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make."

They need to tell the Supreme Court that the Constitution does not apply to those aliens who do not submit themselves to it, in other words, those who are not citizens or legal immigrants.

Democrats all
What Bryce and the others who complain about Andrew Jackson, Dred Scott, Secession, Jim Crow, the bombing of Dresden and Tokyo and blame it all on the US, and on all of us, forget is that these things were all done by Democrat presidents. They don't have any problem at the time with Democrat presidents perverting any law or principle in the name of expediency and patriotism. But if a Republican is in office, then Katy bar the door. Anything the Republican does will be called fascism and criminal, and the Republican will be blamed post-facto for all the so-called crimes and violations committed by Democrats.

It's a flim-flam scam.

The Uighurs
Are Chinese dissidents of the Muslim faith. Many fled to Pakistan where a seperatists movement was located. Of the Uighurs picked up by Pakistan around 8-10 were deemed not to have been involved in plots or actions against the US. But since they can't be returned to China due to possible torture or death, and no other country has been willing to take them, they have been kept under lock and key without charges or even allegations for over 5 years.

By the way Talent Scout
I don't live in Dearborn.

SteveDowns
Actually, you might be interested that one of the questions asked during application test for U.S. citizenship is: who is protected by the U.S. Constitution?

The answer "U.S. Citizens" is incorrect. If you answered that and your answers to other questions like who wrote the "Star Spangled Banner" added up to less than 70%, you would be denied citizenship.

All the protections of the Constitution relate only to the "We, the People of the United States of America".

That makes the constitution a fairly "liberal" document.

If you don't like that answer, maybe you don't know enough about this country to be a Citizen.

beaglescout
No, I also mentioned Guatamala. The exception that proves the Rule.

I also mentioned that all of these terrorist acts are committed by the military industrial complex of war-mongers, fear merchants, lobbyists in and out of government, those that profit from war and make war for profit.

Read the House of War by James Carroll. His father was the first Defense Intelligence Chief and testified against Melvin Laird during the Nixon administration, because Laird had lied, straight up lied, to congress about U.S. Intelligence concerning Russia's capability for a first strike. The authors father was fired. The lie was eventually removed from Laird's policy statement, but it made no difference. The methods of fear are not weakened by rational disproof. The boogyman remains even if the child is shown that there's no boogyman.

Those are the criminals that have been driving U.S. policy for 60 years now. And it's the biggest money pump that's ever been devised. We pay the taxes and the military line their pockets.


The problem with the Uighurs
No country will take them.

So, appears no one in the world wants them.
And being they are trained militant muslims, I do not want them here either
Nor does the Federal Government, thank God.

We already have way too many muslims who support the enemies of America here already.
I would like to see this nutcase trughes in Gitmo too, or sent back to whatever muslim nation he comes from.
He fits the profile of a terrorist himself.
He really hates this country, and is the enemy of all things American as seen by his virulent anti American hate speech here on this thread.

What is this moron doing here anyway if he hates the USA so bad?
Must be up to no good is all.





Hardly an argument

Libertarian Scum writes:
Subject:
"Go home you terrorist lover."

Ah yes, the ultimate conservative argument.
---
Its the answer and the right judgment.

Why argue with a terrorist supporting scum bag?

You can, I see no point in arguing with the murdering low life.
He belch's hate for America in every post.
He hats the US Constitution and wants it as corrupted as his insane mind can dream up.

Why waste time arguing with such a moron?
Send the terrorist lover back to the hell hole he prefers.

His home country, in a body bag would be ok with me.




Courts decision and why it is correct
Fred Thompson, who by the way is a really good attorney and Statesman, wants us to believe, because of Politics. The decision to allow the Gitmo detainees the rights afforded most criminals in the United States is wrong.
It is not!
I do not make the rules of engagement and War. I just followed them as best I could, and prayed that the enemy did also.
Our invasion of Afghanistan, on the side of those opposed to the Taliban, was done for two reasons.
1. Afghanistan had become the home base for Al Qaida and Osama Bin Laden. A number 1 terrorist and anti-American, anti-Religion, anti-moral and anti everything except controling power.
It was an undeclared war, and remains so today.
2. The incursion into Iraq, was supposed to have been a sanctioned UN intervention that quickly became and American, British invasion to remove Saddam Hussien from power and free those opposed to his regimes bruttality.
While Congress gave the administration the approval for funding. It failed to execute the needed declaration of War against Iraq.
So many of my fellow Republicans assume that is one and the same. It is not. And yet you continue to aurgue the point and perverse any statement made to reflect your wish.
Had those that were taken prisoneer of war in Afghanistan, been tried and convicted in a military tribunal of allied forces in Afghanistan. By all accounts, most would either be dead or about to die.
Also, had those taken prisoner been tried by the UN sanctioned allied forces tribunal. They too would be imprisoned or dead.
These things did not happen. The prisoners have been held withour any prospect of a trial or judgement for over 4 years. Why?
The current Administration knew they had no jurisdiction or power to do so. Also they lacked enough Senatorial and Congressional support to over turn any action the courts would take.
The courts decission only keeps America the land of Freedom from tyranny. Not a land of terrorist.

The Founders of America
Were not globalists
The People of the United States are who the US Constitution is written for, the Citizens, born here, and naturalized.

America is the most generous and friendly nation on the earth, and is why all the rest of the world wants to come here.
Where other nations have built fences to keep their citizens in, America needs a fence to keep people out.

Nothing is more obvious.
The reason this is, is because America is the best nation on the earth due to we have protected America from all the rest of the world filled with America haters like this moron trughs.

Can any imagine if this moron had been alive during the time the Constitution was written, and he spoke up then among the Founders with his hate for this country then as he comes here now to do, he would not have been hung as an enemy of America?

I believe he would have been either hung or shark bait one.
This moron should be in Gitmo himself


Fred is right
You are 100 percent wrong

----

Butcher Location: OH
Reply # 181
Date: Jun 25, 2008 - 12:52 PM EST
Courts decision and why it is correct
Fred Thompson......

-----
Butcher writes:
It is not!
---
ts:
Yes he is!
Fred is 100 percent right, you on the other hand are 100 percent wrong.

----

Butcher writes:


I do not make the rules of engagement and War.
----
ts:
You got this part right, thank God you do not make the rules too.
In 1942 American Citizens of Japanese Ancestry were arrested and detained just as the foreign terrorists are now detained in Gitmo.
Not a single one was given Habeas Corpus.

NONE.
These people were American Citizens too, and the President of the United States in his constitutional assigned powers, placed them all under Martial Law.

No one will ever find a single lawyer or court house in America that demanded FDR to turn the detainees over to the Civil Courts.

Because we have genuine blue ribbon IDIOTS TODAY.

Sitting on the Supreme Court, these morons do not know their own job description and need to be IMPEACHED.
now!

For the good of America



THE President
Has the Constitutional DUTY and Authority to suspend Habeas Corpus.
Nothing in the US Constitution is any CLEARER.

Article 1
Section 9
Clause 2
The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

Public Safety is just cause to suspend Habeas Corpus for American Citizens.
No Foreigner has any rights in America.
They are not citizens.

Our Laws have NO Authority over any of them.
If we have no Jurisdiction to enforce American Law on any Foreign Citizen in the world, then they CANNOT have RIGHTS in America of they are nor under the Jurisdiction of our Law Enforcement.

The very idea of Equal Protection of the Law is based in EQUAL ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAW.

If our laws have no jurisdiction or authority over any Foreign Citizen, ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO GIVE THEM EQUAL RIGHTS.

To do so is the very definition of INSANITY.
And this is what we now have on the Supreme Court.
PURE MADNESS.

No one ever argued with FDR for suspending Habeas for American Citizens, cause he had the Constitutional Right to do that and DID IT.



For everyone one of you
Who are saying Foreign Citizens, let alone enemy combatants have rights in America under our Constitution, YOU MUST THEN ACCEPT OUR LAWS ALSO HAVE AUTHORITY OVER FOREIGN CITIZENS.

This is impossible to do.
We cannot enforce our laws on foreign citizens lawfully.

If we cannot enforce our Law and Constitution on them, its IMPOSSIBLE TO GIVE THEM RIGHT SIN OUR COURTS OF LAW.

Period.
You CANNOT have "Equal Protection of the Law", WITHOUT EQUAL ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAW!

Lets see any of you Lawyers get around this TRUTH.
Hypocrites

Talent
Due process has been afforded to non-citizens since the first Indian treaties of the early 1800s.

Also, your fixation on the final words of the suspension distorts the provision. It does not say that habeus can be suspended when the public safety requires it. It says predicates the suspension on cases of invasion or rebellion as your post shows.

I repeat the question I once answered which you failed to answer. The Klan was a major threat to public safety. Does that mean the US had the right to detain suspected Klansmen indefinitely and without charges?

The public safety threat is not the threshold for suspending due process.

You answer this question byrce
Do you believe America has the right to enforce our law on foreign nations and their citizens?