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Saturday, May 05, 2007
Fred Thompson :: Townhall.com Columnist
Excerpt: Prepared Remarks for Speech to Lincoln Club Annual Dinner
by Fred Thompson
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


So we meet again, and I'm honored, because I know we're here for the same reasons: Love of our country and concern for our future.

A lot of Americans have these concerns tonight. They are concerned about the way things are going in our country right now. Some fear we may be in the first stages of decline. We've heard this malaise talk before.

Of course Iraq is a large part of it. Not only is it tough going, but the effort is besieged on all sides. From those playing the most crass kind of politics with it at home to criticism from around the world.

Even at home, as we enjoy the benefits from one of the best economies we've ever had, people seem uncertain; they raise concerns about global competition or a growing economic disparity among our citizens.

These are challenges. But how we react to them is more important than the challenges themselves. Some want us, to the extent possible, to withdraw from the world that presents us with so many problems, in the hope they will go away. Some would push us towards protectionist trade policies. Others see a solution in raising taxes and redistributing the income among our citizens.

Wrong on all counts. These are defensive, defeatist policies that have consistently been proven wrong. They are not what America is all about.

Let's talk about the issues here at home, first. A lot of folks in Washington suffer from a big misconception about our economy. They confuse the well-being of our government with the wealth of our nation. Adam Smith pointed out the same problem in his day, when many governments mixed up how much money the king had with how well-off the country was.

Taxes are necessary. But they don't make the country any better off. At best they simply move money from the private sector to the government. But taxes are also a burden on production, because they discourage people from working, saving, investing, and taking risks. Some economists have calculated that today each additional dollar collected by the government, by raising income-tax rates, makes the private sector as much as two dollars worse off.

To me this means one simple thing: tax rates should be as low as possible. This isn't anything ideological, and it really isn't some great insight. It's common sense arithmetic.

That's why the economy booms when taxes are cut. When the Kennedy tax cuts were passed in the 1960s, the economy boomed. When Reagan cut taxes in 1981, we went from economic malaise to a new morning in America. And when George Bush cut taxes in 2001, he took a declining economy he inherited to an economic expansion -- despite 9-11, the NASDAQ bubble and corporate scandals.

The Democrats, of course, want to raise taxes. They only want to target the rich, they say. A word of advice to anyone in the middle class -- don't stand anywhere near that target. Wouldn't it be great if, instead of worrying so much about how to divide the pie, we could work together on how to make the pie bigger?

On globalization -- we're not afraid of it. It works to our benefit. We innovate more and invest in that innovation better than anywhere else in the world. Same thing goes for services, which are increasingly driving our economy. Free trade and market economies have done more for freedom and prosperity than a central planner could ever dream and we're the world's best example of that. So, why do we want to take investment dollars out of growth, and invest it in government?

I'd say cash flow to the government is already going quite well. Over the past year our current tax structure generated record levels of revenue for Washington. In fact it's time to seriously consider what we're getting for our "investment" in government.

For many years, several functions of the federal government have been descending into a sorry state of mismanagement and lack of accountability. I published a 68-page report on government's waste, duplication and inability to carry out some of its basic responsibilities. That was back in 2001 before 9-11, and it got little attention. Now the government's shortcomings are affecting our national security and are getting a lot of attention.

The growth of government is not solving these problems; it's causing a lot of them. Every level of new bureaucracy that is created develops a level of bureaucracy beneath it, which creates another one. Pretty soon there is no accountability in the system. A new head of a department or agency comes in from out of town and, after a protracted confirmation fight, wants to spend his or her few years in Washington making great policy and solving national problems, not fighting with their own bureaucrats. So they just let well enough alone. Then you start seeing the results. Departments that can't pass an audit, computer systems that don't work, intelligence breakdowns, people in over their heads.

Yet people in both parties continue to try to federalize and regulate at the national level more and more aspects of American society -- things that have traditionally been handled at the state and local level. We must remember that we have states to serve as policy laboratories for innovation and competition. That's how we got welfare reform. Our system also allows for the diversity of our large country. Our attitude should be, let the federal government do what it is supposed to be doing -- competently. Then maybe we will give it something else to do.

The government could start by securing our nation's borders. A sovereign nation that can't do that is not a sovereign nation. This is secondarily an immigration issue. It's primarily a national security issue. We were told twenty years ago if we produced a comprehensive solution, we'd solve the illegal immigration problem. Twelve million illegals later, we're being told that same thing again. I don't believe most Americans are as concerned about the 12 million that are here as they are about the next 12 million and the next 12 million after that. I think they're thinking: "Prove you can secure the border and then people of good will can sit down and work out the rest of it, while protecting those folks who play by the rules."

Speaking of reforms and our economy, there is nothing more urgent than the fate that is awaiting our Social Security and Medicare programs. The good news is that we are living longer. However, we don't have enough young working people to finance these programs from their taxes.

People say the programs are going bankrupt. They won't go bankrupt. Even as these programs sap every dime of the government's revenue, the folks in Washington will raise the taxes necessary to cover the problem. At this rate the federal government is going to wind up as nothing more than a transfer agent -- transferring wealth from one generation to another. It will devastate our economy.

Sometimes I think that I'm the last guy around who still thinks term limits is a good idea. The professionalization of politics saps people's courage. Their desire to keep their job and not upset anybody overrides all else -- even if it hurts the country.

So the entitlement problem gets kicked a little further down the road. This action is based on the premise that our generation is too greedy to help the next generation. I believe just the opposite is true. If grandmom and granddad think that a little sacrifice will help their grandchildren when they get married, try to buy a home or have children, they will respond to a credible call to make that sacrifice -- if they don't think that the sacrifice is going down some government black hole.

I am going to quote my friend, Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma. I don't think he'll mind, even though it was a private conversation. He said, "People talk a lot about moral issues, but the greatest moral issue facing our generation is the fact that we are bankrupting the next generation. People talk about wanting to make a difference. Here we could make a difference for generations to come."

It's clear with close numbers in the House and the Senate we need bipartisanship to have any chance at real reform in any of these areas. And there are many responsible people who are willing to try to make it happen. But the level of bipartisanship needed for real progress can only be achieved when politicians perceive that the American people are demanding it. That's why leaders of reform and hopefully our next President, will have a mandate to go directly to the American people with truth and clarity.

These days in Washington, there's an awful lot of talk about the need for conversation -- that we should talk more to our nation's enemies; that we should speak "truth to power." However the speakers are usually turned in the wrong direction. Instead of talking to each other, leaders need to be speaking more to the American people.

The message would be simple: "My friends we have entered a new era. We are going to be tested in many ways, possibly under attack and for a long time. It's time to take stock and be honest with ourselves. We're going to have to do a lot of things better. Here's what we need to do and here's why. I know that, now that you're being called upon, you will do whatever is necessary for the sake of our country and for future generations. You always have."

When the American people respond to that, as I know they will, you will have your bipartisanship.

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About The Author

Fred Thompson has been a lawyer, actor and United States Senator. He writes exclusive analysis and commentary for Townhall Magazine.

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Come on Fred!...
...Make. The. Announcement!

Fred -- free trade
Yes, free trade is good for our country and our economy. The problem is, Fred, that is NOT what our current trade agreement are. Our current trade agreements are MANAGED TRADE agreements, which do nothing more than give trade advantages to select international companies and establish an international ruling body (the WTO) above our own Congress. These agreements, INCREASE the size and scope of government, not to mention control; they do not decrease it.

Who Killed Free Trade?
http://www.mises.org/freemarket_detail.asp?control=189&sortorder=articledate

What is Free Trade?
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2000/cr050200.htm

"As economist Murray Rothbard explained, true free trade does not require treaties or agreements between governments. On the contrary, true free trade occurs in the absence of government intervention in the free flow of goods across borders. Organizations like the WTO and NAFTA represent government-managed trade schemes, not free trade. Government-managed trade is inherently political, meaning politicians and bureaucrats determine who wins and loses in the marketplace. We should not allow globalist trade schemes to masquerade as free trade.

One critical point must not be ignored. The Constitution grants Congress, and Congress alone, the authority to regulate trade and craft tax laws. Congress cannot cede that authority to the WTO or any other international body, nor can the President legally sign any treaty that purports to do so. Our Founders never intended for America to become entangled in global trade schemes, and they certainly never intended to have our domestic laws overridden by international bureaucrats. Quasi-governmental organizations like the WTO are simply incompatible with American national sovereignty." -- Dr. Ron Paul

Fred -- which borders?
By the way, Fred, how exactly do you sync your statement about securing our borders with the Council on Foreign Relations' (of which you are a member) blueprint, "Building a North American Community"?

http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/NorthAmerica_TF_final.pdf

This CFR plan speaks to securing the "external" borders around North America, NOT the borders between the countries themselves. In fact, just the opposite, as the free movement of people between the U.S., Canada and Mexico are encouraged.

Fred,
nevermind Liberty; he's having a tinfoil moment.

Thanks for speaking
directly to 'The People' Fred! We Conservatives have been screaming for years about how the politicians, once in office. Go about their self-serving ways and ignore the people.

With this column you cut through all the smoke and mirrors and get to heart of the problem. Rather than trying to smooth-over bad policies.

Run Fred Run!

Cynewolf
That's right, woof, don't check the links. Don't read the article from the Mises Institute on what free trade really is and why NAFTA, etc. are NOTHING of the sort. And by all means, don't read the actual report from the CFR that backs up exactly what I told you.

Just go back to sleep woof.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Hopeful
These are good thoughts, though I think they're a little unrealistic. Much depends on the so-called 'bipartisanship' of the Democrats and Republicans, but that'll never happen with anything important. The Democrats will continue to pander to special interests and rail against Republicans and obstruct everything they try to do. [You'd think they have some Muslim blood in them.] It isn't going to change even when the Democrats become a small, minority party again.

What we need are stronger Republicans and a man in the White House to lead them. We need to call the Democrat weakness purveyors on the carpet and prevent them from doing any more damage. The World---especially the countries that actively work and think against us---has to know that we are fair and powerful, and we fully intend to protect ourselves and our interests wherever maniacs fight against us.

America will then be safer and stronger for us and our children.

tnmccoy
I think it could happen with the right leader as President A man with a backbone. Someone that won't play standard politics and will prosecute those in government that break the law. such as, Corruption, Bribes, pork or all such illegal schemes. And I don't mean a slap on the wrist. I mean through their butts in prison. Make examples of all who try it.

Lib,
if I'm sleeping, it's only because you've played the same tune over and over. Wake me up when you have something different to say.

opps
throw their butts in prison.

Red Meat from Fred
I like this.

I see a little of the long knives coming to the surface. Plus an acknowledgment that the BS merchants need to be called on the carpet in front of the American public.

Oh what a world it could be!

'Today, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi visited Syria and told their leader a pack of lies. She does not have the authority to do this mission nor does she have my endorsement. Only the President of the United States has that authority.'

With Bush II I know I'm dreaming. But what the heck, the man has nothing to lose if he says these things now. The bipartisianship approach has landed in the horse-poop pile. George, grow a pair and shut the nonsense down!

Meanwhile.......I like Fred!!

woof woof
If you actually read what I posted and checked into its authenticity, we would not be having this discussion. However, you seem to prefer remaining ignorant.

It does not change the facts. What I posted was the truth and I backed it up. If you would like additional references, I would be happy to provide those to you. Or, do you not care enough about your country that you'd be willing to lift your little finger to find out the truth?

Marc of CA
I challenge you to show ANYTHING of what I said above to be BS!!

Merry go boy
Are you aware that it is extremely rude to write in all caps on the internet?

Please stop "screaming".

to merry_go_boy
Generally, unless there be something urgent needed to be conveyed when the background noise is high, I ignore shouting. Usually, people who shout when there’s no need have nothing to say worth hearing. Similarly, when people send messages all in capitals, I assume that they have nothing worth reading, and ignore the message. Messages completely in capitals often signify that the writer is a kook, or a crook, or an arrogant arse, or a combination of these. If you do by some chance have something worth conveying, please be considerate enough to your reader by taking a second or two to remove the caps lock.

huh?
merry_go_boy tells Lizzie: “but I cannot see as well as you do.”
My vision is very poor and I, for one, find the convention of using minuscule letters with the bare minimum of capitals—developed over centuries as one which facilitates ease of reading—far easier to read than all-caps.

Liberty
I read your information. I don't know who this Mises guy is, never heard of him. So I don't know how I can give any credence to what he has to say, obviously you think highly of him, but why should I?

As far as Ron Paul, I think he is one sharp guy. I like a lot of what he has to say and I know a great deal about his time in public office. He not only 'talks the talk' but he 'walks the walk', in other words, his actions correspond to his words. I think he is a very good public servent.

With that said, Ron Paul has absolutely no chance of becoming POTUS. None, zip, zilch. His poll numbers are statistically zero. He may be a sharp guy, and he may be a good and honest politician, but very few of us know about him or ever will. He also has some baggage that turns off a lot of people. Like his libertarian leanings (doesn't bother me since I lean a little libertarian myself)

So, where does that leave us? Someone is going to elected POTUS. The question is, who? We know Ron Paul is not the man. So we must look elsewhere. Of all the possible candidates, Fred Thompson is by far the best of the pack. Is he perfect? No. Will he be everything any conservative can hope for? Of course not. But, not only is he the best of an otherwise worthless bunch, he is also a sharp guy. He is apparently honest and he is conservative. That puts him head and shoulders ahead of the rest of the people that have a hope of winning.

Now, you can continue to rant about the CFR and choose to cast your vote for someone with no hope of winning (some refer to this as 'throwing away your vote') or you can vote for a pretty good alternative. Which will it be?


Liberty and MGB
Liberty, please re-read this paragraph by Fred. It talks about our borders, not the borders of the so-called NAU.
MGB, I seem to recall you posting normally (no caps) in previous posts, only using caps to highlight certain points in your postings. Using your disability certainly has its advantages.
PS. If your keyboard has two greenlights on, your caps button is most probably on. Please turn it off. Thank you.
Taproot

Thasic
Google Ludwig von Mises and learn something about economics.

Fred
There is no way to know what is really in a man's heart so you have to follow his words. To me what Fred has to say sounds more like the president I want than any of the announced candidates.

Trulib
Agreed his words are nice. There have been so many RINOs i still flinch a little when i hear some of them. Thompson did have a reasonably conservative voting record. Probably the best recommendation for him is i believe he didn't run for re-lection. If so, it at least indicates he is not a power hungry do anything to get elected professional pol. I know J C Watts opted out. He was a cinch for re-election but didn't run. We could sure use him.

master of sarcasm
merry_go_boy spews: “AHHHHH! THAT WE ALL SHOULD BE LIKE MS HENNY PENNY, AND I AM SURE THE WORLD WOULD SPIN WITH EXCITEMENT AND WITH ANTICIPATION OF YOUR MAJESTYS ARRIVAL??”

Was I asking everyone to be as I am? I do, I own, desire more people to maintain those conventions which serve us well—and this, I should have thought, is not too much to desire from a supposedly conservative forum. So, you consider that I’m up myself because I should like a little courtesy from someone who, I suppose, actually thinks he has something to communicate? If you’re trying to be witty, you’re half-way there; but in order for an attempted witticism to strike home it helps if you first make sense, and it may also help if you learn and apply some basic principles of punctuation.
If, however, I interpret you correctly, merry_go_boy, if someone infer discourtesy in an action, the correct response is to repeat that action with bells on.
Still, you did get my attention and I actually read your semi-literate rant, this time. Well done.

Stealth Candidate
Thursday night those who have declared Republican candidacy for the Presidency of the United States stood before the American people and answered the questions put to them. Where was Fred Thompson?

merry_go_boy
For visual difficulties, try pressing Ctrl while you turn your scroll button to increase the size of the text. It doesn't work for all pages, but it surely does for these colums and comments.

same as it ever was/same as it ever was
Fred Thompson begins by referring to a certain apprehension of the part of many Americans regarding the future, stating that "Iraq is a large part of it", then proceeds to ignore Iraq and discuss other issues.

But Iraq is not going away, no matter how some might wish it. Most likely it will be a huge handicap for GOP senators and congressmen in 2008, and of course for the GOP nominee for the whitehouse.

For that, the GOP can thank President Bush and his neocon advisors, almost all of whom have now abandoned this administration for the sanctuaries of think-tanks, the World Bank, or the world of punditry, leaving a beleaguered administration to wrestle with the disastrous advice neocon counsel has wrought.

I agree with Fred Thompson on his concerns over generational transfer of financial obligations. Medicare is a much, much more serious problem than social security. Our generation should not just kick the can down the road for the next generation...but we 'boomers' tend to only think of ourselves. After all, it is all about "us". Just look at television commercials extolling how "special and unique" we are. Cough.

I also agree with Thompson on his concern over ever-reaching federal encroachment upon state and local governmental functions.

On that, I agree with him 100%.

One last note. I am for fair trade, not free trade. And I disagree with Thompson, President Bush, and many others, who seem to believe there will be no losers in globalization, and "free trade". It is not true. There most certainly will be losers: plant closings in the U.S.A. miraculously springing up in Mexico, China.

Gluttonous labor demands here in the U.S. have played a role in this, as has outright greed of company executives to maximize profits by replacing U.S. labor with 3rd world.

Monkey Boy
Who has committed treason? Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, John Murtha....go drop your guano on the DK or Huffpo.

PS...go to view on your tool bar,click text and then larger size...Voila, no more "seeing problems...and next time don't "fib" to people who have been here and seen you post before- you were in fact, screaming...My Gramma called it a fib, but I call it a lie.

Fred Thompson
Fred...Fred, when are you going to throw your hat in the ring? We need your calm, logical, presence in this mayhem called the "Presidential Race." Actually it looks more and more like a showing of one of those "Survival" or "American Idol" "Reality" TV programs. There is no way ANY of these people, on either side, with the exception of Juliani, who is anywhere near presidential material.

Mr. Thompson speaks of the "Economic Pie" as shrinking and growing according to the rate of government taxation. It is a down-to-earth description of what is actually happening to the money that we earn. The "Pie" is not static as progressive liberals would have us believe. They have constantly warned that rich people are getting more of their share of the pie and we must tax them so that the "Middle Class" can get their share. If we could ever nail them down as to just what is "Middle Class", maybe they could sell their snake oil. All I can tell you about that is that you had better not earn one dollar over their ever-changing definition of "Middle Class" or you will be one of "Rich" that get slammed with the high taxes.

Over fourty percent of American households don't pay any taxes. That leave the other sixty percent for taxation. Maybe ten percent are considered obscenely wealthy (like John Edwards)and they don't pay any taxes because they have armies of tax lawyers looking out for them. Now that leaves fifty percent of the population to tax. You do the math. Out of what is left to tax, the more taxes the progressives need the more they slide that indicator toward the high end of you so-called "Middle Class" earners.

That mantra you keep hearing: "We want to give the middle calss a tax break." Beware, the more you hear that, the more you should worry about being classified as "Rich."

Besides, the progressives, as socialists like to call themselves today, preach about a "classless" society. What's all this about poor, middle, and rich classes? When they talk about the economic classes they are really manipulating one social class against another to serve their own purposes.

Mr. Thompson also hits the nail squarely on the head when he says that we need to trim the beauracracies that are so bloated, inefficient, and wasteful. We need to get the government back to what it was originally intended, get it working right, THEN, maybe we will give it something else to do!!

Man, I love this guy. I know he's contemplating running for president. I hope he does because he's got my vote and as many people as I can persuade.

Thanks, Handy and lilly . . .
. . . for reminding us, on a daily basis, how scared you and all the other moonbat dhimmi-cRATS are of a Fred Thompson candidacy for POTUS. He really has you guys shaking in your little booties. I love it.

Fred
makes a lot of sense in this article has he has done in all of his columns. Lots of common sense which is something we all need in DC. None exists there now.

As Jerubaal mentioned the word gluttonous, I cannot help by plug by blog.

http://peppermintsplace.townhall.com
Chapter 18 of the diary is posted and Michael Moore takes a beating by the Patriots.

a cheerful good morning all!
And as for Fred I really hope he announces and wins the nomination. He may well be the easiest to defeat. LOL

There's a Reaganesque
quality to Fred Thompson's statements and nothing with which I would disagree. However, if he wants to be a factor in the 2008 election he's got to get off the schnide. The longer he sit on the sidelines and waxes philosophically about what needs to be done, the weaker he'll appear to be. Liberals have already lofted a few hand grenades in his direction about his lacking fire in the belly. NOW is the time to act. To re-use a tired old phrase, "Ya gotta strike when the poker's hot." Gingrich didn't and he's shrinking from the scene.

Lynne
My posting of 8:46 A.M. was an excerpt of a larger, more comprehensive posting I had delivered in another venue.


Run Fred Run
Run Fred Run, end message...

Iraq: an Opportunity
Jerbaub said:

"But Iraq is not going away, no matter how some might wish it. Most likely it will be a huge handicap for GOP senators and congressmen in 2008, and of course for the GOP nominee for the whitehouse. [...]"

Sure it will be a handicap, as long as it remains a war framed in the Media's and the Democrats' terms: a GI body-count, a laundry-list of setbacks, a tallying up of spectacular National cost figures--and little else. All for the monomaniacal purpose of hanging it around the neck of their political arch-nemesis.

What I wish is for someone in our national debate to say it like it really is. Iraq has given us the *best opportunity* we've had in decades to face down Islamic fascism militarily as opposed to chasing our tails in futile International law-enforcement operations.

1 - Whether or not it was planned this way by us or our enemy, Iraq has become the front-line for Al Qaeda, and has flushed out of the International shadows countless terrorists who are now converging on one nation, Iraq, to fight us. Front lines are good for us, bad for them. Because they are closer to the more conventional warfare that we are the best-equipped Nation in history to fight and win.

2 - Whether or not it was planned this way by us or our enemy, the Iraq war has made it crystal-clear who are the top-sponsor nations of Islamic terrorism. In simpler terms, we now know beyond a shadow of a doubt where the cancer is whose symptoms are the explosions that rock Baghdad and Tel Aviv. This gives us the opportunity to deal with that cancer directly, pointedly and knowingly.

3 - Another dimension that the Iraq war has made crystal clear is who our enemies at home are, and how determined they are to undermine the United States' efforts around the world. We are *one strong leader away* from the opportunity of dealing with this fifth column the way it deserves to be dealt with.

4 - And, of course, we have deposed a murderous dictator and one who, like Ahmadinejad, was hell-bent in pursuing WMDs and in defying the civilized world--for those of us whose memory is not clouded by Bush Derangement Monomania. As such, the opportunity is to keep working to help a unique Mid-East democratic republic get off its young feet and grow.

These are trememdous opportunities, which only this war has brought about. With a good leader and steely resolve, we can seize upon them and turn our ship towards a decisive, historic victory.

But let's instead all keep groaning about the GI body-count, the cost of the war and the limited results we have achieved while further tying the hands of our soldiers with idiotic red tape, downplaying our efforts and trumpeting to the four winds every terrorist act in a way that would make Al Jazeera blush with envy.

We let our domestic enemies define the terms of engagement for too long. For too long. It's time to change and take the Opportunity.

STAY HOME FRED
Stay Home.

Taxes and Tax Cuts

.....Fred ...

.....You refer to the tax cuts of JFK ...Reagan and BushII and how each time the economy was stimulated and revenues increased but what kind of a tax are we talking about ...

.....We are talking about the worst kind of tax possible ....a tax on income ...a progressive tax that punishes achievement ...a tax that was so unconstitutional that it required the 16th amendment to make it legal ...a tax that is used by politicians to reward and punish to engineer social change ...a tax that should be repealed and replaced with a Fair Tax ...

.....Have you read the "Fair Tax Book" by Neal Boortz and Congressman John Linder? ...have you read Linder's H.R. 25? ...

.....If our present tax system was replaced with the Fair Tax or even the Flat Tax then there would be no need to fight for tax cuts ...the constant battles between the Dems and the GOP over who gets to raise or cut taxes could be virtually eliminated ...

.....Our present tax code give tyranical power to the Congress and allows them to pick our pockets at will .....COLOSSUS

postscript: A Progressive Income Tax (Our present system) was strongly endorsed by Karl Marx and is included in The Communist Manifesto as a means of wealth redistribution ...

federalize and regulate
Liberty, thanks, hadn't heard NAFTA explained as managed trade before. Easier to see that with WTO and the proposed North American Union, time to rethink in light of that, I mean, all this talk of globalization when trade since the dawn of history has been that way.

Thasic "I don't know who this Mises guy is...." As suggested google him. Or better: http://www.mises.org/. Member of the Austrian school of economics, others include Hayek, Schumpeter, Hazlitz. You'll appreciate him if you appreciate individual liberty, free trade, and limited government.

Such principles are behind, I believe, I hope, Thompson's "Yet people in both parties continue to try to federalize and regulate at the national level more and more aspects of American society -- things that have traditionally been handled at the state and local level."

How true, people of both parties federalizing and regulating the liberty that made America great!

What amazes me is some see these concerns as wearing tinfoil hats, and others find it laughable, and still others actually seek federalized, regulated fair trade.

Thompson quotes another who seems to get it: "I am going to quote my friend, Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma. I don't think he'll mind, even though it was a private conversation. He said, 'People talk a lot about moral issues, but the greatest moral issue facing our generation is the fact that we are bankrupting the next generation. People talk about wanting to make a difference. Here we could make a difference for generations to come.'"

"The meaning of economic freedom is this: that the individual is in a position to choose the way in which he wants to integrate himself into the totality of society."
--Ludwig von Mises

Mitt Romney's Golden Minute
> Lynne writes: Just from the little bit I
> did see, Matthews and his far out liberal
> co-horts were asking some of the
> dumbest questions I've ever heard.

Mitt Romney's response to "Bill Clinton back in the White House" was priceless: "Are you serious? The only thing worse would be the terrible three in charge of foreign policy" was priceless.

Of course, some of us know that there is Romney talking (great) and Romney governing (not so great). But this was his shining moment...

Thompson straw for McCain?
It is out there - in New Hampshire - curtesy of Howie Carr (5-4-07): Fred Thompson is only a straw candidate to support his friend John McCain vis a vis Rudy 'n' Mitt.

Now this was said by a Romney supporter (radio host Howie Carr) but it is out there and is a disturbing thought: IS that what Thompson is up to?

I don't think so, but still, it needs answering.

Liberty
A couple of comments in response to the two citations above.

When the Mises article makes reference to tariffs between Oregon and Pennsylvania, that's a bit disingenuous. There is free movement of workers and all other factors of production between Oregon and Pennsylvania; wage rates are fairly-well equalized between most areas of the country, certainly more so than between Oregon and Mali. That argument may have made sense in 1790, but doesn't now.

It strikes me that the voices of concern in the free trade discussion have in mind the uneven treatment we get from our trading "partners." As an example, during the 1980s, when the timber counties of Oregon had unemployment rates above 30%, the Japanese wouldn't allow us to export finished lumber to Japan. They wanted the commodity, logs, to be shipped to them so they could add the value, turn the logs into lumber. There are other examples one could cite.

In the final analysis, the people arguing against "free" trade want a tariff that will equalize the costs of factors of production. This strikes me as similar to the remark attributed to Henry Ford when asked why he paid his workers $5 a day: "So they can buy my cars." Certainly tariffs have been viewed by many as good things.

I agree that there is no provision in the Constitution to transfer authority (I should say power) to NGOs or any other type of international authority, but we've been doing it for a long time, and it will be difficult to stop. We should make the effort, but it will be a long road. What's your idea of a first step?

I would be interested to read your take on the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and the arrogation by the Fed of the power to print and control the currency and "manage" the economy. How do we reverse this?

Barry

Lynne
;>*) Please keep pushing Fred.
Voltaire why is it that you folks want to label this a religious war?

Fred is smart
Fred already is running. Look at all the interviews and media attention. This guy is smart. He is probably garnering more support on the sidelines then he would if he announced. Keeping the limelight on the current group of posers actually does more to illustrate the need for Fred than if he were already in the ring. It's brilliant. He's probably the frontrunner right now without having to endure the attacks from all sides that come with frontrunner status. Obviously he needs to time it right, but clearly it's working to his advantage right now.

Hal-- Hate to tell you but this is a religious war as far as are enemy is concerned. Call it what you want, but it is what it is!!

too early
are? our...

we have nothing to fear, it seems.
This would be amusing if not so tragic.

Some are suggesting GOP nominee to embrace the failed neocon plan of democratizing the mideast, foisted upon a clueless President G.W. Bush...with all too predictable results.

I don't think that will play in Peoria, let alone Pittsburgh.

Our Iraqi misadventure has empowered Iran, destabilized the mideast, diverted resources from Afghanistan, which now is witnessing a resurgence of Al Qaida and Taliban, and exhasusted our treasury.

I agree with some of my conservative brethren over the threat Islam poses. Notice I said "Islam", not "radical Islam".

This ideology, with its commitment to sharia law, may well be incompatible with the tolerance required in a democracy.

But with our president hosting events at the whitehouse attended by some muslim clerics who have been identified as "radicals", and with our president declaring Islam to be a religion of peace, perhaps I should not worry about the future.

For indeed, if Islam is a religion of peace, then by all means let us open up the floodgates and allow millions of young muslims onto our shores, since we have nothing to fear.

apoplectic
"Hal-- Hate to tell you but this is a religious war as far as are enemy is concerned." I don't think anymore than Ireland or Palistine were Catholic or Jewish wars. It was about power and taking it from England. Religion just served as a rallying point.

When are you going to announce ...
... your candidacy? That's what I, and millions of others, wanna know.

http://OsiSpeaks.com or http://OsiSpeaks.org

Hal
"I don't think anymore than Ireland or Palistine were Catholic or Jewish wars. It was about power and taking it from England. Religion just served as a rallying point."

This is different. As you correctly pointed out, religion was a tool in those conflicts as a means to gain power for purely political purposes. This is about gaining power in the name of and for the purpose of spreading the religion. There is no seperation between the religious component and the political one. They are one in the same.

apoplectic
"This is about gaining power in the name of and for the purpose of spreading the religion. There is no seperation between the religious component and the political one. They are one in the same."

An age old problem...

"Notwithstanding the general progress made within the two last centuries in favour of this branch of liberty, and the full establishment of it in some parts of our country, there remains in others a strong bias towards the old error, that without some sort of alliance or coalition between Government and Religion neither can be duly supported. Such, indeed, is the tendency to such a coalition, and such its corrupting influence on both the parties, that the danger cannot be too carefully guarded against. And in a Government of opinion like ours, the only effectual guard must be found in the soundness and stability of the general opinion on the subject. Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together."
--James Madison, Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

Yardstick
The way to judge the potentialof a Republican candidate is to see how loudly the socialists scream about him and how they try to destroy him using the politics of personal destruction.

Notice that the socialists are almost silent regarding Rudy McRomney.

Thompson Not the "Savior"
Is Fred Thompson the conservative savior? I don't think so, as I wrote in my analysis yesterday of the Republican Debate.

On my TH site (click on name above), I'll be writing soon on why I believe Robert Novak has outlived his usefulness for conservatives and is essentially carrying water for the Democrats. In the past six days, 820 people have read my daily columns, 230 of them yesterday, including my in-depth, MSM-free analysis of the Republican debate. Please come and visit.

steve

Lynne
You give the libs more credit than I do. I don't think they can even see into next week. their venom blocks their foresight.

Failed, neocon, clueless... predictable?
Jerabaub,

"Some are suggesting GOP nominee to embrace the failed neocon plan of democratizing the mideast, foisted upon a clueless President G.W. Bush...with all too predictable results."

While some of your points (especially in re. Islam) are spot-on, sentences like the one I quoted are irrational and prejudicial.

Look for a moment past this jungle of adjectives and labels with which you categorize the world (neocon, failed, clueless, predictable) and look at the facts soberly.

Fact: unlike those who've been blissfully asleep until January 18, 2001, you and I know that the Mid-east has been unstable practically since after World War II. As such, there was nothing to "destabilize" in more recent years. Unless by "destabilizing" we mean "stop sucking our thumb, acknowledging the problem and doing something about it."

Fact: we didn't start this war. We may have started the battle in Iraq, and in retrospect it may have not been the best decision. In retrospect. At the time, we acted on our best intelligence--given by agencies that had been systematically underfunded and rendered impotent by previous administrations. So much for vague neocon conspiracies.

Fact: Al Qaeda is fighting us in Iraq. Now. In force. They are challenging us as openly as they ever will, tauntingly and confidently. We have three options:

1 - Unleashing hell upon them while tying the hands of their sponsors--economically or, if needed, militarily.

2 - Continuing a PC war in which our military is half meals on wheels, half a surgical strike force with endomorphic and nameless guys in suits calling the shots from their bureaus in DC.

3 - "End the war."

But let's analyze this option 3 for a minute. How do you "end a war" a) that you didn't start, b) in which you are playing defense even in its counteroffensive phase and c) whose goals going far beyond the current theater are clearly stated by your opponent? Answer: you can't.

Thus "ending the war" is just placebo-speak for retreating from a magnificent opportunity to rid the world of a good portion of those who WILL come back and strike at us. It's like interrupting cancer-surgery before the tumor is removed and calling that "ending the illness." It is, in itself, an absurd and historically insane proposition that the civilized world can't afford. Period.

Option 1 is the only way forward in this moment in history. It doesn't matter that "the war is unpopular," since its unpopularity is the result of the self-fullfilling prophecy of malaise and defeatism that we've been force-fed for the past 5 years. This is why we have a commander in chief, and why war is not conducted by California-style propositional referenda.

But Option 1 will be impossible as long as we have a good half of our leadership with a vested political interest in defeat--for the vile purpose of "winning seats" (C. Schumer) or gaining the White House in '08. S

So Option 2 will remain the undecisive default position until national resolve congeals around a strong leader with the guts to WIN and take no prisoners both at home (metaphorically) and abroad (literally).

Lynne
"For some reason they can't (or won't) learn their history, and can't (or won't) see beyond next week."

True but Hal is somewhat different than your average lib. He actually knows the history but somehow always derives the wrong conclusions from it. He's like a college professor who has all the information but somehow fails to use that information to arrive at the logical conclusion. Must be a left brain, right brain thing.

I watched
Fred's speech last night. It was very good! And he was speaking of the Mexican border. He spoke about the flow of Mexicans into this country, and stopping it, and guarding our ports.

I was impressed, and I don't impress easily.

barry
"With that said, Ron Paul has absolutely no chance of becoming POTUS. None, zip, zilch. His poll numbers are statistically zero."

It is true the MSM has done a fine job of trying to shut him out. In fact, most polls before the debate simply excluded him. In some cases, he was the ONLY one excluded. He's also not getting the benefit of all the free air time being heaped upon the front-runners, or even Fred, who has not even announced his candidacy.

It will be a bit harder for them to do so, AFTER the debate, although I am quite sure they will do their best to minimize him. By the way, as you know, MSNBC hosted the debate. Were you aware that Dr. Paul WON not only one of their post-debate polls, but BOTH!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18421356/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18436681/
Given this, wouldn't you think he might receive more than THIS in their bi-weekly rating of Presidential candidates. This came out the day after the debate. They refuse to even rank him! Look for yourself:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16711064/

Furthermore, besides a couple of field reporters who spoke of him highly, in coverage first thing in the morning, he was not spoken of in any way, besides merely mentioning he was in the debate. The exception that I saw was Glenn Beck, who had some choice little insulting name he used for Dr. Paul. There was NO coverage of him on FOX that I saw. In fact, they lumped everyone together as having the same stances on the issues, which is simply not true.

Look at this poll from ABC. They list 9 of the 10 candidates. Guess which one they left off? Yes, Dr. Paul. Oh, I'm just so sure this was a mistake. Yeah, right!!! Take a look:
abcnews.go.com/Politics/BeSeenBeHeard/popup?id=3135373

"He may be a sharp guy, and he may be a good and honest politician, but very few of us know about him or ever will."

A LOT more know about him after the 1st debate and many more will, after the next debate. This is a true grassroots effort. He is not supported by big business or the lobbyists, for one good reason --- he has not sold out to them!

IF you want to know about him, you don't have to wait for that, I have posted, numerous times, links to his speeches, articles and videos. I venture to say, he has more information available on him than ANY other candidate.
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/
http://www.youtube.com/RonPaul2008dotcom
http://www.myspace.com/ronpaul2008
http://www.myspace.com/congressmanronpaul
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html
His new book on foreign policy:
http://www.mises.org/store/Foreign-Policy-of-Freedom-A-P359C0.aspx?AFID=2

"He also has some baggage that turns off a lot of people. Like his libertarian leanings (doesn't bother me since I lean a little libertarian myself)"

Baggage? The man is about as pure as snow. If you call libertarian-leanings, baggage, I will remind you that President Reagan described himself as a "libertarian conservative". This in fact is true conservatism. It is everything Barry Goldwater was all about and exactly the principles of which Reagan spoke.

"So, where does that leave us? Someone is going to elected POTUS. The question is, who? We know Ron Paul is not the man. So we must look elsewhere."

Why do we "know" that? It's way early in the game. My God, are you folks as defeatist as this????? Here's a man that has proven ALL HIS LIFE that he will stand up for our Constitution and our Liberty, each and EVERY time, and yet, some of us just give up and resign ourselves to choosing from what the MSM and the elitists in the Republican Party machinery choose for us. Disgusting!

"Of all the possible candidates, Fred Thompson is by far the best of the pack. Is he perfect? No. Will he be everything any conservative can hope for? Of course not. But, not only is he the best of an otherwise worthless bunch, he is also a sharp guy. He is apparently honest and he is conservative. That puts him head and shoulders ahead of the rest of the people that have a hope of winning."

Thompson is not even in the race yet. Yes, I agree that he's better than the other 9 conservative pretenders. Ron Paul is the ONLY conservative in the race.

"Now, you can continue to rant about the CFR and choose to cast your vote for someone with no hope of winning (some refer to this as 'throwing away your vote') or you can vote for a pretty good alternative. Which will it be?"

I'm not ranting. I am attempting to show some of you what this organization is all about. The fact that Thompson would be a member of such an organization is rather telling. If he would get out of it, that would be another thing, but apparently, he is not. Tell me something... don't you think it interesting that here we have a man that has not even announced his candidacy, but there has been NUMEROUS articles here on TH about him and he receives copious amounts of free air time in the media? Let's compare that to Dr. Paul. There was one article written about him by George Will, whose articles are carried by TH. Yet, they just so happened to whoopsy... skip over that ONE article and not carry it.

Can you not see that your candidate is being "chosen" for you again, with Thompson? At the very least, don't take him at face value and check into what I have said. Maybe he *is* just all innocent in his involvement with the CFR and AEI. Maybe he joined them not knowing what they were all about. I doubt it, but I guess it's possible.

As far as who I will vote for... I will not vote for anyone that I believe will further the erosion of our country's sovereignty and who advocates world government. It's just that simple. If Ron Paul does not receive the nomination, I will look for the next best person, who is not a one-worlder. At this point, that is NOT Fred.

Ron Paul is the ONLY conservative in the race. That is the fact.

"The candidates invoked Reagan's name at least 19 times, but one had to go all the way down to Rep. Ron Paul's quixotic campaign before someone reflected Reagan's commitment to limited government. " - Michael Tanner of the Cato Institute

"A Constitutionalist and long-time libertarian favorite, Dr. Paul has been in and out of Congress since 1976, when he was one of only four GOP House members to endorse Ronald Reagan's challenge of President Gerald Ford. Over the years, the rigorous defender of conservative principle has assembled an army of 15,000 individual donors who endorse his unwavering support for the flat tax, his call for a radical reform of the Food and Drug Administration, his hostility to overseas military conflicts like the war in Iraq, and his disapproval of any and all federal trampling of states rights." - John Fund, Political Diary, 5/2/07
-----------------------


Liberty
Ron Paul appeals only to the cut&run crowd.
He is soft on National Defense.
He does not have a prayor of being elected in a National election.

David
I have spoken NUMEROUS times about McCain and Giuliani. Since this site advertises itself as a conservative website, I would hope that no one here would even consider voting for these two. They simply are not conservative in any way, shape or form. But, neither are the rest of the pretenders. The only conservative in the race is Dr. Paul. That is, if you believe in the traditional conservatism of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan's words.

- limited constitutional government
- personal privacy
- personal responsibility
- strong national defense
- fiscally responsible government
- individual liberty

Not Sold Yet
I like Fred and most of what he's been saying lately as he ambles up to his expected annoucement. The one reservation I have is that he is leaving enough room for a four lane "path to citizenship" in what he's saying about illegal aliens.

"I don't believe most Americans are as concerned about the 12 million that are here as they are about the next 12 million and the next 12 million after that. I think they're thinking: "Prove you can secure the border and then people of good will can sit down and work out the rest of it, while protecting those folks who play by the rules."

One more amnesty and we're done folks.
And the numbers are much higher than 12 million. We are being purposely misled. Most of what you hear about illegal aliens is propaganda to get us to give up our country without a fight. In 1986 we were told it was less than 1 million, turned out to be 3.6 million getting amnesty, a few of them were involved in bombing the WTC in 1993. This time we're being told 10 million, it is more like 20-30 million. Enforcement under Clinton was insufficient but looked robust compared to this administration. They have purposely let the situation get worse to try to force us into another amnesty/guestworker/regularization, whatever euphamism it is this week. The media, unions, both parties, churches, and mostly the corrupt corporations employing them are working to undermine our sovereignty as a nation and our rule of law. Until very recently there was practically NO enforcement. Did anyone see the marches on Communism Day? Did you see the signs?


These next 2 years are vital to the future of this country. For 2007 we must make certain that McCain/Kennedy or whatever it's called this year does not pass the House. It will pass the Senate. The President will sign it, followed by the Totalization Treaty with Mexico, which qualifies former illegals with just 6 qtrs(18 mo) even if worked illegally, the benefits that we had to work 40 qtrs(10 yrs) to qualify for.

In 2008 we must make the candidates address border security and immigration enforcement.
20-30 million citizens of other countries are in our country illegally, 55% from Mexico, most of the rest from other Central and South American countries. Let's not ignore the leftward voting trends of these countries. It is notable that they picked May Day, an old communist day of celebration for their marches.

Most polls show at least half of the American citizens of Hispanic descent want the borders and laws enforced. Republicans will not win by alienating their current voters to get 40% of a new small block that will grow very large, very fast if amnesty is granted. That will grow the Democrats vote larger and faster as the influx increases exponentially as the result of another amnesty. It will spell the end of the Republican Party. The people who used to vote Republican will stop voting or form a new party. Conservatives will lose political influence and we will slide inexorably towards socialism (it has already started).

Most of what you hear about this issue is political propaganda that tries to convince you to give up your country without a fight, including on Fox News. The big money players are all on board the cheap labor express, they care not that American citizens do not want another amnesty. We know the last one resulted in 10 times the number of illegal aliens and a general disregard of our laws. The next one will be equally successful.

We need Comprehensive Immigration Enforcement, not reform. We need to restore respect for the law and the faith of the American people that their government is not selling them out. Amnesty for the illegal aliens is also amnesty for the corrupt companies who have been employing them. Money trumps everything, including love of country. Multi-nationals have no loyalty to country by definition, they see us as a market, not a nation. They see people as workers, documented or undocumented, no difference. If they can't send the work to where the labor is cheaper, then they want to bring the cheap labor here. Citizenship is meaningless.

If we love our Constitution and our representative Republic and we intend to keep it we must not surrender our sovereignty or abandon the rule of law. Profits must not supercede security. We should not create a new path to citizenship. We have a path to citizenship, more generous than any other country, illegal aliens have ignored it and bad choices do have consequences.


MyOpine
No, he IS strong on national defense. Our current foreign policy is NOT making us safer, it is endangering us MORE.

By the way...

"Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense...We need to keep him fighting for our country"... Ronald Reagan

voltaire
last post on the war was right on the money

Barry
"In the final analysis, the people arguing against "free" trade want a tariff that will equalize the costs of factors of production."

No. Isolationists may, but not people who advocate true free trade. But, that is not what we have right now, Barry. Just because they CALL something a "free trade" agreement, does not make it one, right? Most conservatives have had it drummed into their heads since they were young that free trade is good. And IT IS. However, most of us didn't know what this really meant, so when we were told something was a "free trade" agreement, we just went along with it, cheering all the way. FREE TRADE does not need require government control of trade.

What are you talking about with reference to the article from the Mises institute and tariffs? No one advocated tariffs in that article! Just the opposite. Read it again.

By the way, President Reagan spoke of the Mises Institute. If you would like to read more on free trade, go to their site and search on "free trade" or "NAFTA", for example.
http://www.mises.org


Immigration
"We need Comprehensive Immigration Enforcement, not reform."

Exactly. This is why I won't believe any politician on the issue until he seriously discusses, in this order, border enforcement, deportation, and legal action against employers of illegals.

Voltaire

"4...the opportunity is to keep working to help a unique Mid-East democratic republic get off its young feet and grow"

On liberal nation building, Arnold Kling*: "In Hayekian terms, we say that order emerges, and often this order has little to do with the intentions of planners. For example, in Iraq the Bush Administration intended to create a swift transition to democracy, and to set an example throughout the Arab world. However, democracy is a phenomenon that cannot be imposed by planners. Instead, it must emerge, and Iraq was not ready for such a transformation...."

"3...We are *one strong leader away* from the opportunity of dealing with this fifth column the way it deserves to be dealt with."

Returning to Ludwig Von Mises: "To complain of lack of leadership is, in the field of political affairs, the characteristic attitude of all harbingers of dictatorship."

"2...we now know beyond a shadow of a doubt where the cancer is whose symptoms are the explosions that rock Baghdad and Tel Aviv. This gives us the opportunity to deal with that cancer directly, pointedly and knowingly."

And London, and Madrid, and Algiers, and all around the world.

"1...Front lines are good for us, bad for them....the more conventional warfare that we are the best-equipped Nation in history to fight and win"

Problem is the Terror War is not a conventional war. Not a good strategy.


*"The Real Solution to Poverty" (http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=050207A)



Lynne: "'Ron Paul appeals only to the cut&run crowd.' Paul had made that abundantly clear!"

Thanks but no thanks I'll stick with Reagan's recommendation (cited by Liberty): "Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense...We need to keep him fighting for our country."

Liberty
People like you who want to fight a defensive war on Radical Islam are the ones who want to endanger our citizens.
You can't prosecute each act of Terrorism as a criminal matter.
Our Government does not even do that with organized drug gangs!
How do you arrest and try a Suicide Bomber for blowing HIMSELF up along with a train load of passengers?

Why do you want to bring that war here to America?
Taking pressure off the Iraqi Front will release funds and materials to attack the American homeland.
Is that what you want?
______________________________________
Check out that 9:54 Voltaire post.
It is precisely to the point!

Merry_go_boy
I think what you said has to be screamed! That "debate" was a farce; in the way the questions were asked and to whom. Big media stars (in their own eyes) playing up to big political stars ( in the media's eyes). Notice that the three Congressman were announced last when the "Down the Line" segment began. Notice that Duncan Hunter was interrupted and shouted to silence by the moderator in the middle of his very short answers, while the Biggies could babble on. It was a debate that was going to be reported by the press as a call for help from Thompson, since none of these present "measure up".

Now to the Lincoln Club speech. Glittering generalities, many of which could be successfully confuted. But the one that boiled my blood was that Thompson,F. doesn't think we're as concerned about the 12 (should be 15)million illegal aliens already here as we are about those to come. Lou Dobbs is right. If we want to deport 12 or 15 million we can do it.
And we should. They pilfer our stores, plead "no speak", add huge costs to our educational, health and social welfare infrastructure and we don't mind?!?!?!? we don't all live as some politicians do. We are of the productive sector. Politicians are of the parasitic sector. So perhaps they feel an empathy for parasites. Fred is an analyst for ABC news, among other things. His analysis at the Lincoln club was shallow and uninformed.

Ahhhh...Sweeps Week is coming soon

Can any of us really imaging how much Fred Thompson would be sued for if he announced his candidacy and left NBC the only network that had to show re-runs during this "sweeps period" for the broadcasters?

The toll in adverstising dollars Lost to NBC would be in the Billions...Fred would make headlines for all the wrong reasons and, so much for a Presidential run....

As for trying to "get more" in his next contract as some would have you believe, or as (the Romney/Giuliani camps?) some have tried to imply "he is only trying to syphon votes from 'OUR' guy for his friend McCain"...BOTH are ludicrous!

A) Don't you think by now someone would have the 'goods' about negotiations for his next contract taking place?

B) Why give up certainly Millions of dollars in TV land to syphon a few votes? I don't care how good a friend anyone is, I wouldn't do it. Would you?

After Sweeps

Wre'll probably hear what we have been waiting to hear.

Voltaire
We agree on some points.

I don't see how you can argue, however, that the Iraq invasion has stablized the region. Try telling that to the Egyptians, Jordanians and Saudis. What they fear is a resurgent Iran, which our invasion has wrought.

Alas, I am not a fan of neocon philosophy. I am not interested in democratizing the mideast. I think the people of the mideast should determine their fate...as long as it does not jeopardize our interests, and irrespective of what we deem to be what is best for them. It may be democracy, or it may be benevolent authoritarian rulers.

The question as to whether Islam with Sharia law is compatible with democracy is still open.

Your point that in retrospect our invasion of Iraq may not have been "the best decision" is a pregnant understatement to the nth degree.

In my opinion, many neocon officials in the Bush 41 administration(William Krystol, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, among others)lobbied the president to topple Saddam when he had the opportunity in 1991. Bush declined.

These same zealots drifted to the G.W. Bush administration a decade later. Unlike Herbert Walker Bush, his son was not, shall we say, well versed in foreign affairs, nor possessed any historical perspective on the mideast. As such, he was gullible to neocon dogma, and when 9/11 occurred, these neocons convinced G.W. Bush that the ultimate solution to muslim radicalism was to foist democracy upon the region, beginning with Iraq.

But as we have seen democracy is no panacea. Elections in Egypt resulted in gains for the radicals(Muslim brotherhood), and in Lebanon(Hezbollah), and in Palestinian territory(Hamas), and even, dare I say it, in Iraq, which in reality is little more than a Shia theocracy largely dominated by Iran.

I don't pretend to have the answers. I do think rather than promote democracy crusades which appear to result in more radicalism, not less, within the mideast, we should promote policies which best secure OUR interests.


Lynne
In truth, I think they do understand.
I think they are just putting on a dumb act to provoke argument.
They do make a little too realistic at times though.

Fred
... says a lot of good things. I like Fred. I also haven't seen Fred tested in an executive office.

Reagan was the Governator for two terms before running for president, and had been a highly effective president of the bizarre and unwieldy Screen Actors Guild during the Commie-Nutso days.

I'd love to see Thompson be Governor of Tennessee first. I don't know; we've had very fine presidents who didn't come from executive backgrounds (e.g., Lincoln).

But how Thompson would deal with a Democrat Congress and an unruly State Department or CIA is something we have no basis for analyzing beforehand. It's one thing to vote your conscience, and another to overrule the consciences of others -- or inspire and reassure them, without compromising on principle.

Some tough days of evaluating candidates ahead.

I hope he means it
I like Fred Thompson more and more every time he speaks. Unfortunately, conservatives have been talking about smaller government for a century, but never once has the government got smaller. When conservatives finally got power they grew government so fast that FDR and JFK got jealous. It's not enough to talk about it. You have to do it.

I want to see Fred Thompson come out for a 2 year moratorium on spending growth. The American people will immediately benefit, and he can come out for 2 more years.

It's easy to make speeches about smaller government, but I need to see a real commitment. Not 1 penny more for 2 years. That's a commitment that I could support.

http://freedomistheanswer.blogspot.com/

dyerje - Evaluate = Eliminate
"Some tough days of evaluating candidates ahead."

You are so right. BUT at least I won't have to do much "evaluating" of one Sen. John McCain...

During the debate he was asked;
"...would you consider Tom Tancredo as head of INS?"

John McCain's answer;
"In a word - No!"

'nuff said.

Magnificus
Agreed, McCain is not The One. That answer was 180 degrees wrong. So was McCain's repellent reference to Alito and Roberts near the end of the debate.

Three words, McCain:

Gang of Fourteen

He's not getting my vote.

dyerje
There are a lot of things wrong with McCain.
As to Thompson not having Executive experience, RINO Rudy is the only one we have with Executive experience and I would rather trust a novice who MIGHT guess right than an expert who intends to do wrong.
I think we are better off with "On the job training."

Fred Thompson
Check out the opinion page of Rush Limbaugh's hometown newspaper on May 3. There is a good article calling for Fred Thompson to run. Go to semissourian.com. The suggestions for what Fred should do when he is attacked by the press should be followed by ALL conservative candidates.

lostinwilderness
Dr. Paul has more than proven his stance on limited constitutional government through years of voting history in Congress.

Voltaire
"3 - Another dimension that the Iraq war has made crystal clear is who our enemies at home are, and how determined they are to undermine the United States' efforts around the world. We are *one strong leader away* from the opportunity of dealing with this fifth column the way it deserves to be dealt with."

Let me get this straight. In your mind, anyone that does not agree with world domination, which by the way, is the goal of the "one-world" crowd, is a fifth column, which should be expunged?

What do you want in this country? Do you want to re-enact the Soviet Union or Red China in OUR country? Because that is in fact what you seem to be advocating. In your book, you would have thrown Patrick Henry, Samuel Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Barry Goldwater and many, many other patriots in some kind of gulag!

I cannot believe someone, anyone, who professes to be conservative would have such a belief. I would expect it out of a socialist, communist or some other totalitarian, but not a so-called conservative.

I am quite sure our Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves.

Fred Thompson ...

F. Truth Thompson
Truth, Accountability, and Responsibility, the initials are T.A.R. Mr. Thompson, as president will help provide the T.A.R., and we'll all bring the feathers. Working together America will send Dr. Lib, and his medicine show packing. Fred Thompson knows, and lives, this Republic. His words ring of the principles embodied in our Constitution, and the peoples duty to this country. Working together, according to those principles, we will cross party lines. The people, again, will control the government. Mr. Thompson understands how bureaucracy's that have grown out of control feed on the uncontrolled.

MyOpine
You might be right. Giuliani isn't the only candidate with executive experience though. In the top three, Romney is Governor of Massachusetts. On the stage at the Reagan Library were also the Governors (or former Governors) of Virginia, Wisconsin, and Arkansas.

How each of them handled the eruption of "ideas" from their legislatures is valuable information. A lot of people seem to like Romney, and he said a lot of the right things in the debate. But I don't see a lot of evidence that he favors a "stong executive" in matters like cutting taxes and regulation, or dealing with out-of-control courts.
'
He did, however, collaborate with the legislature to require everyone in Massachusetts to "have" health insurance. He touts this as a market solution, but when the government is making people "have" things, that is the opposite of the market at work.

Anyway, you get the picture. More knowledge of a candidate's performance as an executive is better, in my view. Being one vote among many is different from being THE vote, and knowing what to do about that.

Run, Fred, Run
Why would Fred declare his candidacy now? He would have everything to lose and nothing to gain at this time.

The free exposure would end. He would have to spend every free moment raising campaign funds. To get his message out he would have to reduce his message to 20 second sound bites.

An undeclared candidate does not have any speech restraints. They do not have to give equal time to opposing views. The best reason of all the anticipation of his candidacy generates a fuzz factor that can not be bought with money.

The best reason of all it is way to early to start campaigning. Voter and campaign worker burnout will occur in most if not all the current campaigns. They will have to redesign their message and hot topics will change. There is way to much time to make mistakes in speech or actions that will be exploited by the opposition and media.



real tax solution needed
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. They decided to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so they divided the bill like this:

The first four men — the poorest — would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1, the sixth $3, the seventh $7, the eighth $12, the ninth $18, and the tenth man — the richest — would pay $59.

One day, the owner threw them a curve (in tax language, a tax cut).

“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20.” So now dinner for the ten only cost $80.00.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.

So the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six — the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his “fair share”?

The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being PAID to eat their meal. So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount.

And so the fifth man paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the eighth paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of his earlier $59. Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free.

But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. “I only got a dollar out of the $20,” declared the sixth man, then, pointing to the tenth. “But he got $7!”. “Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man, “I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got seven times more than me!”

”That’s true!” shouted the seventh man, “Why should he get $7 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”

“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!”

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night he didn’t show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him.

But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered, a little late what was very important. They were FIFTY-TWO DOLLARS short of paying the bill! Imagine that!


Fred - FRED !!!!
Fred, it's time to Git R Done.

tell us if you are or aren't running

Lynne says
of Ron Paul "Not if he's part of the 'cut & run' crowd, which he is.. There is no question there."

Lynne, the current populist sound bite is "defeatist". And both that and the old "cut'n'run' are dangerous politicizations of the war aimed only to win elections.

Again, if I put on a scale your opinion on one side and on the other side Reagan's that Paul is strong on defense.... Ooops, the scale tipped over.

Lynne adds "Read Voltaire's 9:54AM post." Apparently you didn't read my point for point rebuttal.... Listen,m high school's out, stop the cheer leading.

Taxes and Tax Fairness
Mr. Thompson writes:
To me this means one simple thing: tax rates should be as low as possible. This isn't anything ideological, and it really isn't some great insight. It's common sense arithmetic.

Ok. No disagreement here; but let's go further. The whole concept of income taxation is not a legacy I want for our children. This is an antiquated, 20th century notion that is really wrong from the start. It takes a man's labor, which is fundamentally and morally wrong. As such, it can never be fair. How does one decide how much labor the government should extract from each of its citizens? There is no principle on which a fair decision rests. How should the burden of an income tax be distributed over wage earners? Any answer pits one group of taxpayers against another.

So what is the solution? Repeal the 16th Amendment and institute the Fair Tax. By taxing spending rather than income, choice is returned to the taxpayer. For each purchase the cost and tax is known; the purchaser can decide to make or not make the purchase. The Fair Tax, set at the proper rate, will raise about the same amount of funds for the government and can exclude the necessities of life.

I urge you, Mr. Thompson, to consider this issue.

Lynne
Pot.. kettle.. black

lonestarblues
I was about to search for your rebutal to Voltaire 9:54 but after reading your last post 4 times trying to find something in it that rebutes Lynne's post I don't think it worth the bother.
The only thing I can see to "Refuted" is that you prefer the word "defeatist" to "cut&run".

Hardly much of a rebute.
You Liberals only get to name your own candidate.
You don't get to name the Republican candidate too.

Ron Paul is a cut&run surrender monkey.
You Libs can call it by whatever tickles you!

A true patriot in the debate
This YouTube video is a compilation of Dr. Ron Paul's responses in the debate. For some reason, his statement regarding the National ID card complete with centralized database, that will soon be imposed on all of us, is not included in this compilation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hfa7vT02lA

Note: Notice the comment from the questioner of "oh God", when Dr. Paul says he believes in the original intent of the Constitution.

Liberty
Engaging in name calling?
Don't go whimpering and complaining later.
You went out of your way asking for it.

MyOpine
LOL... LOL... LOL

You are now calling me and anyone who supports Ron Paul, a liberal??

Get real, MyOpine. You know better than that.

MyOpine
"Engaging in name calling?
Don't go whimpering and complaining later.
You went out of your way asking for it."

What are you talking about?

Liberty
Check your 4:21 post.

Ron Paul seems to be very popular with Liberals.

I know you CLAIM to be Conservative but;
You take a conservative stance on guns, the border and big government.

Other than that you are HARD LINE LEFT!
AND you side with every whacko extreme Left MoonBat at TH.

That hardly qualifies you as Conservative.

MyOpine
You're talking about me telling Lynne "pot.. kettle.. black"? It was intended to tell her that she had a lot of nerve saying that lonestar was all about smears, name-calling and insults, which she most certainly is not, when that is about all Lynne ever does. I quite frankly thought it nicer to not got into this detail, but to instead, suggest she check out her own actions.

If you're going to sit there and proclaim that I am "HARD LINE LEFT", you're going to have to offer some proof of that, MyOpine. What exactly do you believe that I have said or believe that fits this categorization? I look forward to your reply!!

Now to your comment that seems to point at the few times that I have agreed with something Lilly or other liberals have said. Yes, on some occasions, I have agreed with them. Mostly where it involves the unconstitutional actions of this administration. I have also seen several good posts from liberals and true conservatives alike about the neoconservatives that are currently controlling our foreign policy. I fail to see how this makes me a liberal. I am merely sticking to true conservative principles. That does not require that I go along with some gaggle of people who "believe" they are conservative, but do not base their "beliefs" on true conservative principles of our Constitution and individual liberty.

I do not need your "approval" to feel comfortable with my stance. I know where I stand and it is with the true conservative principles that Barry Goldwater believed in and of which, Reagan spoke.

For anyone to believe that they can ignore the Constitution or support those who willfully disregard it, and still call themselves conservative, are simply deceiving themselves. There is no conservatism without the support of our Constitution. It simply is not possible.


We Need a Leader
Well this Old Gunny Believes He can Lead, and we need that more than anything.

We are at War for the life of Western Values and Culture.

There are and have been many good things said here, but one are two of my own.

1. Everyone of our Men and Women in Uniform today raised ther hand, and kne we at War and knew they could go in harms way.

2. Eveyone of those, Bomders that blow themselfs up over there, and are Our Forces Kill, is one that is not on thier way over here !

3. Our own Politicans, For the love of Power, Go out of the way to take the means to carry on from Our Troops.

4. WE need NOT only Leadership, but a Man that can Speak to the Heart of Our Country, and inspire the whole country to rise to the challange of Our Generation.

5. We must not fall back, we must charge ahead failure to do so will dishounor not only the Good Men and Women, who have fought in Iraq, But All those whom Look down on us from Generations of Valor and sacifice. And Say " Here is the Flag, DO NOT LET IT FALL"

SEMPERFI
GySgt USMC(Ret)



Lynne
"Don't like the message, go directly to the smears and name calling and insults."

Don't know you well enough to smear and name call you, my comment had to do with your cheer leading posts:

Lynne Saturday, May, 05, 2007 8:01 AM "I'm still laughing at yours!"

Lynne Saturday, May, 05, 2007 8:54 AM "Intelligent post, there Handy! And, as usual, lots of class!"

Lynne Saturday, May, 05, 2007 9:04 AM "Of course, you know what an "excerpt" is?"

Lynne Saturday, May, 05, 2007 9:51 AM "You're such a turkey!"

Lynne "You must not have been paying attention! A little advise here: PAY ATTENTION!!!"

Enough.

Do you have something to contribute besides your own smearing and name calling?

MyOpine
"I was about to search for your rebutal to Voltaire 9:54 but after reading your last post 4 times trying to find something in it that rebutes Lynne's post I don't think it worth the bother."

Search on my handle plus "Saturday, May, 05, 2007 1:20 PM".

Rebut Lynne? What's she said?

"You Liberals...."

More name calling. Here's one back at you, Liberal, politics is not personal.

The point is this, this is not a time to elect the next president, this is the time to define the Republican Party, perhaps even conservatism is America. Do you want to contribute to that or continue your cheap shot politics?

I realize Ron Paul hasn't got a shot in hell for election, but that's not the point, he is the only voice of classical liberalism running. Fred Thomson sounds good, as you might see by my other responses in this thread.

Liberty
You side with Liberals on the war and frequently side with them whenever they attack one of us you arrogantly call a "Gaggle of people who call themselves conservative".
I won't even dignify you as RINO because you do not support America in time of need.
You are a typical Liberal in that you place politics before Country.

And take note of the fact that Liberals do support Ron Paul!

lonestarblues
Your posts are so confusing I can't even determine whether you are a Liberal or Conservative.
Please clear that up for me.

Handy The Great Know All
Handy says of Fred Thompson, "He won't be able to attract a high quality cabinet to accomplish his lofty goals. Nor will he have any coattails."

Since, I have not witnessed your ability to read the unknowns, your visionary insights seem more bent on insult than prediction.

As to your comment, "Fred's still sitting on the porch. He's a real "Poodle in Courage." Now, you are kicking our poodle? That is just plain mean.

We are a year and a half away from the election. Historically, very few candidates have declared by this time. The only reason everyone thinks the race has already started is because Hilary has been running for two or three years. It gives the impression that the race is nearly complete. Poor old Hilary, she has been running for this office so long that, I think, the Public has gotten tired of hearing from her. Early entry may have killed her opportunity.

I do not know when the best time would be to enter the insanity of running for this office, but, if he runs, he has my vote.

Mac Moore
Whoever our candidate is;
You can expect Michael Moore to produce a "Hit Piece Documentary" on him.
The longer we wait to decide, the less time Michael Moore has to produce his Propaganda Film.

Remember the job he did on Bush?

Lonestarblues -Iraq Not Ready To Be Free
lonestarblues offers the following quote, On liberal nation building, Arnold Kling*: "In Hayekian terms, we say that order emerges, and often this order has little to do with the intentions of planners. For example, in Iraq the Bush Administration intended to create a swift transition to democracy, and to set an example throughout the Arab world. However, democracy is a phenomenon that cannot be imposed by planners. Instead, it must emerge, and Iraq was not ready for such a transformation...."

I am not sure what that leads to. That same logic was offered against freeing the slaves. The first 100 years after their freedom, it was not so pretty, here, either. Freedom inspires democracy. I see no merit in arguing against freeing anyone. Iraq has a shot at freedom. We should strive to ease their conflict, not dismiss them back into slavery.

Myopine - Advisor To The TBA Candidate
myopine offers, "Whoever our candidate is; You can expect Michael Moore to produce a "Hit Piece Documentary" on him. The longer we wait to decide, the less time Michael Moore has to produce his Propaganda Film."

That is probably true. And, it will get an Oscar, of course.

MyOpine
"You side with Liberals on the war and frequently side with them whenever they attack one of us you arrogantly call a "Gaggle of people who call themselves conservative".
I won't even dignify you as RINO because you do not support America in time of need.
You are a typical Liberal in that you place politics before Country.

And take note of the fact that Liberals do support Ron Paul!"

MyOpine, I have tried to make clear to you that I am on the side of our country, our Constitution and liberty. In reality, this should be a message that resonates with all Americans who love their country. You know, MyOpine, conservativism is defined by a collection of principles. It is not limited to the Republican party or any party for that matter. Nor, does it mean that just because someone calls themself a conservative, it makes it true. Think about it. McCain and Giuliani call themselves conservative. Do you think they are? If not... why? Isn't it because they stand against most every conservative principle in the book? That's what I'm saying to you.

Remember that Ronald Reagan's message of limited constitutional government and individual liberty resonated across the political spectrum. It is doubtful that he would have been elected, had not so very many Democrats voted for him. This is the same appeal you are seeing across the spectrum for Dr. Paul.

Yes, I admit that I was angry when I wrote the "gaggle" comment. However, I think it is true. Once again, it takes more than someone just calling themself a conservative, to actual merit the designation.

You and I agree on quite a few things, MyOpine. Where we frequently clash is on the WOT. You seem to believe that if one does not agree with this war, they somehow are anti-American. I realize it is hard to not lump everyone together that disagrees with the war. But, I ask you to attempt to do so.

Because I disagree with our current foreign policy, you misinterpret that as being weak on national defense or "not [supporting] America in time of need". Where, in my eyes, the reverse is true. I think those who are supporting this current foreign policy are endangering our national defense. Now, we can talk about that if you want.

Finally, I am NOT putting politics ahead of country. If you are talking about my pushing Ron Paul so much, yes, I am. But, it is only out of love for my country. I am seriously VERY concerned, MyOpine. Yes, I am concerned about terrorism, but I am also concerned about the very things that were on that one web site. Remember? If we do not start turning this thing around very soon, I honestly do not believe our Constitution or our country will stand much longer.

I am no liberal or RINO, but if you want to judge me as such, so be it. I know where I stand.

All
I think this recommendation from Lonestar is a good one.

"The point is this, this is not a time to elect the next president, this is the time to define the Republican Party, perhaps even conservatism is America."

How about a dialogue on what everyone believes conservatism is, or should be?

lonestar
I realize Ron Paul hasn't got a shot in hell for election, but that's not the point, he is the only voice of "classical liberalism" running.

Please explain "classical liberalism"....

And, Is this your opinion of Ron Paul? I didn't catch another post making the same claim. Though I have been in & out all day and I may heve missed it if you were quoting someone else.

Freudian Slip
maybe?

"Building a North American Community"
If you want to understand the immigration plans for our country, please read the CFR report that I linked to near the top of this thread. The taskforce report, entitled "Building a North American Community" was created by individuals from the U.S., Canada and Mexico. At least you will get a good understanding of what is going on. Please read it.

Phyllis Schlafly also has a good repository of information here:
http://www.eagleforum.org/topics/NAU/


Magnificus
Hardly. The definitions of things have been all switched around. Lonestar probably thought you knew that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

Think free markets, individual liberty, limited constitutional government and the likes of Mises, Hayek, Milton Friedman, and the vast majority of our Founding Fathers.

Conservative Defined?
liberty asks, "How about a dialogue on what everyone believes conservatism is, or should be?"

Opening sentence from the Declaration of Independance: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

Preamble to the Constitution: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Boiled down, Maximize Freedom - Minimize Government, the Government is simply a servant of the Governed, not the other way around.


Ok Liberty
We can let the smoke clear for awhile.

Ron Paul?
Why was his rating so high on MSNBC's poll.

Think about who watches it. Think about the Republican party is now down to 31% of the votes (Dems. 37% Indp/others. 32%.

Constitution party and many conservatives aren't for staying in Iraq, but support a war on terrorism because they have been convinced Iraq was not connected to the war on terrorism.

McCain who stood the strongest got less than 9% approval. Paul who was the most opposed got 29%.

If an election were national and just held among the Republicans on that stage, Dems and independents and some conservatives would elect Paul for the war stance alone.

Until Republicans realize that they have dropped to "minority party status," they will continue to overestimate their candidates. This isn't any statement about whether they have or don't have the best policies. They just aren't popular and the war isn't popular and many conservatives will vote against any candidate they think isn't supporting the Constitution and against the amnesty bill.

While Paul isn't popular among Republicans, they need to realize that he has a huge "independent" following that doesn't like either party. Doesn't mean he can win and most certainly isn't likely to win the primary for the GOP, but, they need to examine why he polled so hard if they hope to win in 2008. 31% of the voters isn't going to elect anybody to President. Where do they get the other 20% if Democrats hate them and independents won't support their stance on the war, immigration, or the Constitution?

Maybe Paul needs to be carefully listened to and what he says analyzed and studied because he is appealing to more people than any other candidate except in the Republican camp, a minority group, now.

Gabby
gabby, referring to Mr. Thompson, says, "Boy, is THIS guy bad news. He is just another Bush, but with acting credentials. Hope he doesn't run."

I am not sure what you mean. Bush won two elections in a row, increased his party's presence in Congress three elections in a row and moved the bar on the Supreme Court towards Conservative thought. Plus, he has delivered a robust economy in the face of an inherited recession, a dot-com bust, a major attack on our mainland and a miserable war. He has problems with spending and vetos, but no President is perfect.

So, what is it that you think Mr. Thompson is wrong-headed on?


Old Man
Please do not bet the ranch on the accuracy of ANY poll.

Most polls are slanted by a variety of tactics.
Some people just tell pollsters what they think they want to hear.

Did you ever participate in a poll?
Often you read the multiple choice answers and can't find any you actually agree with.
You mark whatever is least objectionable.

Gunny USMC Ret.
Your direct, unvarnished words reflect the kind of wisdom and love of country that is music to my ears.

The fact that Mr. Thompson is garnering the kind of support and following he is--without even running (thus far), is proof that there is a vacuum begging to be filled by a strong leader.

If it's not him, it will be someone else perhaps even better--but someone is going to fill that vacuum soon, mark my words, friend.

Mac Moore
Compare what you just said above about conservatism with the ACTIONS of this administration. Do you think they match up? I sure don't.

Uphill road
For the Republicans, of which I am one, who don't believe they have an uphill battle, they may want to check out page 6 of this Pew Research file
http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/312.pdf

The Democrats have risen with people who are either Democrat or lean Democrat 44% a decade ago and 50% now. But, look at the Republicans that started out about even. Republicans went from 43% to 35% now. Remember that is people who claim to either be or lean Republican. Actual membership is lower.

Somebody in the leadership of the GOP better start getting busy and finding ways to bring more people back to their party or that number will drop even more. Republicans will have to pick up a huge amount of voters for the Presidential race and maybe, if Hillary is the candidate, they can. Many of the people "leaning Democrat" don't like her.

However, winning the Presidency won't save this nation. As long as Congress refuses to reform taxes, entitlements and government's role in general, we can't stop us from the train wreck that is coming when the "boomers" retire.

Tancredo was the only one (Paul somewhat) that pointed out mandatory spending will derail any candidate the wins the election in 2008. You can't help the nation without reforming mandatory spending and only Congress can do that.

I don't believe the Republicans can win Congress if they stand firm on the war in Iraq. It doesn't matter if they are right or not. The voters have been convinced the Iraq war is being either fought wrong or was wrong to begin with. Unfortunately the Republicans, who are terrible at marketing, haven't done anything to stem the trend to this belief. The majority of voters don't "study" this. They listen to the nightly news and get their views from it. Many have written to the GOP for years that if they didn't change their marketing, they would face this day. Well, now they face it and still are failing in their marketing of their party and thus, losing millions of members.

MyOpine
I agree with you on polls, they are much like the fallacy of so many statistics.

What I thought was interesting in one of these polls, is that you can look at the "before debate" numbers for each candidate and compare it to the "after debate" numbers. Take a look.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18421356/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18436681/

Gabby - Lost In PC World
Gabby quotes Politically Correct Roberts, "American consumers are heavily indebted. The growth of consumer debt is what has been fueling the economy"

People take on debt when they feel secure. The more secure they feel, the more debt they take on. Roberts does not mention that because it would ruin his paper of doom and gloom.

Your referrence to Rockefeller Republicans is mind-numbing. If you are referring to business men, they do not act in consort. Employers do not care about illegal immigration. All they care about is that they have the cheapest labor for a given job. If the cheapest labor is $100 or $3, it does not change their mission.

Gabby also cites, "One of the main reasons for the rapid expansion of the US trade imbalance is offshoring." Politically Correct Roberts

Roberts seems to live in half-truths. Did he fail to mention offshoring brought Mercedes, Toyota, Handa and nearly every major pharmaceutical factories to the USA?

Did he mention such protectionist policies whereby we citizens pay exhorbitantly for sugar from our Cane farmers while blocking, via tariffs, sugar competitors from Jamaica? So, Jamica sells us marijuana, instead. Plus, we send them financial aid to help them overcome their grief.

Did he mention how much money we send overseas to make good relations with countries that we levy tariffs against? Does he really think that sending fee money to countries is a better policy than free-trade? Protectionism hurts more than it helps.

Please do not quote Politically Correct economists that have an agenda.


Gabby - Anti - Bush Republican
Gabby says, "He almost drove the world to the brink of catastrophy. He has destroyed the Reagan Revolution. He is currently building up the democrat party (by working with Teddy K.) and bringing in tens and tens and tens of millions of immigrants that PREFER democrats when they vote."

Your first two accusations against Bush are too rhetorical to address. The world is doing fine and Reagan lead no revolution. He was a Conservative with an excellent command of communication. Bush is a poor communicator.

As to immigration, as I read the numbers generated from the Census Bureau, over the past 20 years unemployment has not changed much and has stayed near 5 percent. That seems to be a good number in a growing market where changes are constant. During that same period, we have netted a million legal immigrants every year. And, to my estimation, we have gained about another half a million in illegal immigrants. Since unemployment did not change, if those immigrants were not sneaking into this country, we would have to send out invitations to keep up with our economy.

I do not think that people should come here illegally and I think our borders need a lot of fixing. Although, I think Canada is more of a risk of entry for Islamic extremists than Mexico, by a wide, wide margin. Isolationism is not a healthy answer. It would suffocate America to our demise. Bush is trying to come up with a plan that works. Someone needs to.

Liberty
I have a great idea.
Since the liberals like Ron Paul so much, and McCain;
Why don't we try to get the Liberals to run Ron Paul / McCain as their ticket?
http://www.bullwinkleblog.com/?p=3925

Liberty Asks,
Liberty asks of Mac Moore, "Compare what you just said above about conservatism with the ACTIONS of this administration. Do you think they match up? I sure don't."

No, I do not beleive that Bush is my vision of the perfect Conservative. Neither was Reagan. But, I did vote for both of them, every time.

No body is perfect, like me. But, I will support the candidate that best meets my expectations and has the capacity to carry a victory. Once, I made a mistake by having a temper tantrum at the polls and voted for Perot. I got Clinton, instead. It was like getting drunk with anger and waking up in bed with "coyote ugly". I am trying no to do that, again.

MyOpine
That is quite insulting, MyOpine and I am doing my best to hold my tongue. Which I admit is difficult, because I am extremely tired right now.

McCain is a disgust for so very many reasons. I would imagine you feel the same.

The people that Dr. Paul appeals to are those who value limited constitutional government and individual liberty. As I said earlier, that should cut across the entire political spectrum: liberals, Constitutionalists, libertarians and true conservatives. He most definitely will not appeal to statists that exist on both sides of the aisle and others (some statists, some not) who believe that our current foreign policy is the way to provide national defense.

Dr. Paul is a patriot who has proven his stance for the very same principles that Ronald Reagan stood for, over and over and over again, through many years in Congress. The man has never voted for an unconstitutional bill, never voted for a pay increase for himself, has refused the Congressional pension and has frequently been the sole person with the integrity to stand up for US and our LIBERTY.

So, you can make light of it all you want. But, I hope you understand that I do not consider the future of our country to be a laughing matter. The very fact that you could make such a comment is absolutely ridiculous.

Mac Moore
I understand.

Mac Moore
Whoa. I just read another of your posts further up. It sounds like you support open borders. Is that true?

Mac Moore
I did exactly the same thing.

I knew Clinton did not have a chance.
Watching him campaign by promising everything to everyone, with many conflicting interests involved, everything on TV for everyone to see.
Who would be dumb enough to vote for that guy?
I SURE CALLED THAT ONE WRONG!

Mac Moore
Gabby is not the one lost. Are you telling me that you aren't aware that the Republican party has always been split between big government statists and conservatives? The big government statists have been called "Rockefeller Republicans" ever since my earliest recollection. They only differ from liberals in what they want their BIG government to control. Barry Goldwater is credited with reviving conservatism. He stood in stark opposition to statism, believing in limited constitutional government and individual liberty. Now unfortunately, we also have a new addition to confuse things. We have the neoconservatives who are also big government statists. Slowly, they have taken over the conservative movement in the Republican Party and a lot of people don't even realize what happened. But, there are some people who remember the traditional conservative principles and we're trying to scream from the top of our lungs in every way we can to remind people of what conservatism was all about.

Here are some others that are doing the very same thing. The following is from a recent America Freedom Agenda press conference:
Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvLuy4ogxeE&mode=user&search=
Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlKfLxEhx_M
Part 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4DG8pi1JkQ
Part 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PVVlno3h1E&mode=user&search=
Part 5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQXU2KP6d9I&mode=user&search=

RUN, FRED, RUN!
Sometimes I think that I'm the last guy around who still thinks term limits is a good idea. The professionalization of politics saps people's courage. Their desire to keep their job and not upset anybody overrides all else -- even if it hurts the country. <

My sentiments, exactly. Of course, living in the state represented by the senior senator, Ted Kennedy, makes one truly wish for a two-term limit! Seriously, I believe our country would be much better served if there were expectations of fresh ideas coming from new representatives every few years.

I agree with both Voltaire and gunnyusmcret - we MUST (sorry...I do use caps for emphasis only) have a leader who will bring our country back to the moral standards that have been tossed by the wayside - it is time to return to honoring the values and manners that have proved effective for hundreds of years and which helped make our country the greatest in the world. Let's keep it that way!!!




Mac Moore
"If you are referring to business men, they do not act in consort."

Some do; some don't. Ever heard of Business Roundtables? Surely you're not this naive.

GREAT SPEECH!
Just what our country needs to hear - more and more and more!

I can see the value of Senator Thompson sitting it out for a while, so will just continue to offer my support in this manner.

RUN, FRED, RUN!

Liberty -
Liberty asks, "Whoa. I just read another of your posts further up. It sounds like you support open borders. Is that true?"

No. But, I also do not support closed borders to the point of isolationism.

The USA is probably the most healthy country on earth. According to The Economist, our Purchasing Point Parity, that measures buying power, dollar-for-dollar all things being equal, the USA is the standard. Essentially, one gets more for their money in the USA than nearly anywhere else. According to their index, if purchasing power is 100 percent in the USA, it is only 14.9 in China, 78.8 in Canada, 73.8 in France and 97.9 in Ireland.

Anyway, we, also, seem to be about the only country that encourages immigrants. I think there is a connection and it is healthy. We need to lock down our borders and set a standard for entry, but we also need a plan to keep the economy flexible and growing. Someone needs to work on.


Mac Moore
I disagree with you that our economy is healthy; it is a complete facade. But, I am way too tired to go into it right now. Maybe later.

Gabby
"what is it with these new republicans who are so ignorant about the Rockefeller/Goldwater wings/division?????"

I don't know. It's very disheartening at times.

Gabby
If ever a screen name described someone perfectly it is (other than my own of course) yours!

I just wish you had chosen something different...you could still be 'gabby' but a better screen name to live up to would have been RATIONAL...it would have been much better for those who have to read your output.


Liberty - Businesses Consort
Mac Moore said, "If you are referring to business men, they do not act in consort."

Liberty Responded, "Some do; some don't. Ever heard of Business Roundtables? Surely you're not this naive."

Sure, there are business roundtables. They are normally organized by schools or other such entities trying find out how businesses operate. Most of us do not have time for such exercises. Besides, the only meeting that I would be interested in is one that has my competitors. After all, they are the only people that have the same issues that effect my edge. Alas, they never invite me.

As to businesses plotting for illegal immigration, I never got the memo.

Liberty - USA Economy a Facade
Liberty offers to Mac Moore, "I disagree with you that our economy is healthy; it is a complete facade."

Just so that I understand your standard, where is the economy not a complete facade?

Great Speech
When Fred runs, he will wage a campaign based on the issues and not poll driven positions. His lure is going to be his folksy, common sense charm. And his victory will come when people realize that his competitors, by comparison, are orchestrated, packaged and plastic.

And, more importantly, he will lead without waiting for a poll which is what leadership is all about.

Mac Moore

Some people on these threads think there is someone (usually in Big Business or Government) plotting something against someone or something ALL the time.

I call them the X Files - Generation.
Or just X-philes for short.

Liberty - Lost In Esoteric Language
Liberty instructs, "The big government statists have been called "Rockefeller Republicans" ever since my earliest recollection"

Thank you, Liberty. However, I try not to indulge in esoteric language. Many people tend to misuse the terms or corrupt them. You may recall an earlier discussion using "Globalization" to the point of non-sense. Addtionally, I have noticed that esoteric words most of the time are used more as self-gratification or to talk over the heads of others, than to lubricate meaningful dialogue. Also, it tends to lose or dismiss potential contributors.

I find it just as easy, as an example, to say "Big Government" than "Rockefeller Rupublicans".

Magnificus - XFile Spotter
Magnificus offers, "Some people on these threads think there is someone (usually in Big Business or Government) plotting something against someone or something ALL the time."

So, I notice. Ah, if only busines were so easy.

I'm just
a Conservative voter who wants a candidate that...

1) Has Impeccable Conservative Credentials
2) Is Pro-Life
3) Will Make Border Security a Priority & Is Against Amnesty For Illegals
4) Is Strong on National Defense
5) Understands Foreign Policy
6) Is Pro 2nd Amendment
7) Will Appoint Strict Constructionist Judges
8) Will Restore Quality to Education
9) Will Address the Entitlement Program Problem
10) Is Against Gay Marriage (but says - "the decision belongs with the states")
11) Is Not Enviro-Hysterical
12) Is A Man of Strength, and Character, Who Has the Backbone To Stand Tall Against The Liberal Agenda

For me, that describes Fred D Thompson and if YOU too are a Conservative voter looking for, hoping for the same from a candidate, he deserves your consideration.

Support Fred Thompson
For President 2008

Visit http://draftfredthompson.com/index.php

Help Make Fred Thompson OUR 44th President!

Gabby Looking For Perfection
Gabby offers, "Bush is not a conservative, has never said he was, and he would tell you so."

He, and you, can call him whatever makes you happy. But, I voted for the best conservative opportunity of the time in the last two elections and it was Bush. Name calling only insults people. It is not very helpful.

Compassionate Conservatism

I believe that was how GWB described his political leanings.

RODNEY KING
WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?

Lynne
Tyranny comes in steps. It does not happen all of a sudden. By the way, RFID technology is FAR from tamper proof. Do you realize they have not yet decided exactly what all biometrics they are going to keep on each of us? So Lynne, what do you think they'll suggest when they admit this technology is not secure? Well, here comes Verichip to the rescue.

You really ought to research this more before you so willingly advocate its use.

http://www.spychips.com/

Lynne
You're forgetting something. Fred's stance on illegal aliens.
http://grades.betterimmigration.com/testgrades.php3?District=TN&VIPID=743&retired=1

And his promotion of our current managed trade policies that are destroying this country. They are NOT free trade at all. As I told you before, you can read why they are not on http://www.mises.org
Just search on "free trade" or "NAFTA".

Acetate
"His lure is going to be his folksy, common sense charm. And his victory will come when people realize that his competitors, by comparison, are orchestrated, packaged and plastic."

I will remind you that Bush ran on the same platform. He also ran on a platform of a humble foreign policy. Look what we got.

Magnificus
Do you think you are the only one who knows about big business? I have been working with the Fortune 1000 since my first day out of grad school and that was some time ago. Furthermore, my father was an executive in one of the big oil companies.

I am not barking up a tree in what I told you earlier.

Lynne
I've got to hand it to you for going head-to-head with these Liberal Moonbats! I don't have the time for their ranting. Like listening to sound-bite lopes that repeat over and over. Never an original though in the bunch!

By the way, thanks for posting the link about Al-Qaida No. 2.

economy s not that good
When compared to inflation and buying power, we are actually in recession though GDP is growing but, remember the formula for GDP includes government spending so it can go up due to that even when the private sector is doing bad. Look at the last job report.
quote:]--------------------------------March-----Apr.

Nonfarm employment----------|p137,596|p137,684| +88,000
Goods-producing (1-----------| p22,501| p22,473| -28,000
Construction -----------------| p7,691| p7,680| -11,000
Manufacturing ----------------| p14,095| p14,076| -19,000
Service-providing -------------|p115,095|p115,211| +116,000
Retail trade ------------------| p15,397| p15,371| -26,000
Professional and bus.serv.-----| p17,846| p17,870| +24,000
Education and health serv.----| p18,187| p18,240| +53,000
Leisure hospitality ------------| p13,445| p13,467| +22,000
Government ------------------| p22,194| p22,219| +25,000

Snip-----------------
Health care employment continued to grow in April (+37,000), with gains throughout the component industries. Over the year, health care has added 362,000 jobs. Employment in social assistance was up by 10,000 in April and has grown by 63,000 over the year.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Another bad job report even though the number is “plus 88,000.” Break it down and we have losses in Retail, Construction and Manufacturing again and large increases in government (direct government spending) and Health Services (53,000 and much is indirect government spending like in Medicare and Medicaid and the Prescription drug plan, etc.)

Leisure and Financial services are up and that is good and less indirect spending related to government.

However, the point is, if we were to carry this to an extreme, government related jobs drawing from tax revenues would outnumber the tax revenue from jobs that have to pay for government and government spending related jobs. At that point, we are in bankruptcy because we can no longer fund the government.

Socialism, the Democrats blocking this President and reforms is going to cause some serious problems. As the GAO (Gov. Accounting Office) says, we are on an "unsustainable" course and each worker now owes $400,000 as his part of the unfunded liability we face, according to them.


Opinion polls can be very useful when you determine the bias and who responds to them. In the case of MSNBC you have a view of "liberals" and probably some independents.

With only 25% of the voters claiming affiliation with the Republicans and only 11% of Independents "leaning" to them, they have a huge problem.

The Pew Research Report is very long but shows that virtually every trend in public opinion in and out of the Republican party, is going against them.
http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/312.pdf

And right or wrong, the war is going to be a big issue until the 2008 election if things in Iraq don't get a whole lot better. The socialist leadership of the DNC is going to do all they can to see that it doesn't get better. They will keep getting on the nightly news to give "aid and comfort" to the enemy so they don't give up and keep fighting.

If we lose in Iraq, Iran will get control eventually of the oil and sell it in euros and that will probably collapse our currency. I disagree on this with Ron Paul. Not because he isn't right but because it is too late. We are involved in something set in motion in 1971. We shouldn't be there, but we are. Leaving will make things much tougher on our economy as events unfold following our departure. Our currency is tied to the Middle-East whether we like it or not.

However, if we stay, we will probably lose in 2008. If we do and the Democrats are in control, the collapse of our economy will still come as the "boomers" retire and cause entitlement spending to skyrocket. It could actually be that not being in "power" when that happens, since it can't be stopped, will do socialists more damage than they can imagine. With years of a down economy, a massive change in voter attitude will demand many reforms and while it might be an entirely new party coming to power, it could be the Republicans if they have reformed their own party.

Growing jobs with government spending while losing private sector, middle-class, non-government spending jobs is not a healthy economy. But, neither party can get us out of this mess until certain things change, mainly voter attitude about socialism. As long as we continue on the path of socialism we will end up like France.

Compared to what economy?
The comment about our economy compare to what other ones?

How about we are the lowest on the ladder in virtually the entire emerging market, China, India, Australia, Korea, etc.

Most of them are growing at double the U.S. and the U.S. is losing buying power due to the falling dollar so even a rising GDP isn't keeping up with inflation on food and energy.

Old Man - USA Is Bottom Rung
Old Man regarding the USA economy, "How about we are the lowest on the ladder in virtually the entire emerging market, China, India, Australia, Korea, etc."

Australia has some benefits. I have family there - my branch, mothers side, migrated about here 150 years ago.

I am not sure what standards that you use, but I generally read The Economist, a British weekly, as a third-party observer. China, India and South Korea, according to The Economist, are all third world markets that are so far down the economic chain from the USA that their per-person income generation is nearly negligible.

As another indicator, more people migrate from those countries, even today, than migrate to those countries.

So, The Economist and the Citizenry dissagrees with your comments. I am not smart enough to know everything, but I am smart enough to see how people exposed to both economies vote with their feet. The "feet", or migration, says USA is winning the economic battle.

Liberty - Big Business Conspires
Liberty offers to Magnificus regarding businesses consorting against us, "Do you think you are the only one who knows about big business? I have been working with the Fortune 1000 since my first day out of grad school and that was some time ago. Furthermore, my father was an executive in one of the big oil companies."

So, you have been witness to this plot? Fill me in. How can my company benefit? Is there a newsletter?

Possible retirement and health remedies
5/5/07

Our major problems are health and retirement. Social Security will be the major source of retirement income for most. Yet the revenue to pay retirees Social Security, Medicare and prescription drug benefits is headed for a great shortfall What we need is solutions. Healthcare costs and the concomitant lack of efficacy of prevention and medical treatments grows exponentially. Herewith some solutions.
Permanent repeal of the gift and estate taxes (collectively, the death tax) would within two decades increase the income tax take over the death tax take by $1trillion or more. How so? The permanent removal of income earning assets from the tax rolls to frivolous spending and non-taxpaying dynasty trusts, foundations, and the like would greatly reduce. The number paying what the top 1% are now paying in income taxes would steadily increase through inheritance, perhaps doubling and quadrupling in 20 years, leading to this segment of taxpayers footing 50% or more of all income taxes collected.
Permanent repeal of the FDA, though very unlikely considering the money the drug companies have to spread around, would quickly begin to reduce the cost of healthcare as more became aware of what they could do on their own to gain great good health and stay healthy well into advanced old age.
The cost of FDA approval of a treatment for disease is said to be $800 million. Thus only patentable treatments can hope to recoup development costs, and only those for diseases affecting sufficient numbers. Treatments for minor diseases and those that are not patentable are frozen out, with no possibility of winning FDA approval. Thus if grape juice, sunshine, or octopus were found to be a prevention or cure for heart disease, or for a minor disease affecting only 10,000 people a year, it could not receive FDA approval. This is insanity. And the most effective, unfair, and homicidal monopoly conferred by government ever. Not even war matches the misery and death it causes.
The trial attorneys are fully capable of enforcing safety and efficacy of treatments. That they do not now do so is due to the protection afforded by the FDA.
Not a single major disease has been cured since the polio vaccine in 1954 and the addition of efficacy to the FDA mandate around 1962. In fact, outside of infectious disease, medicine has precious few preventions or cures for the major chronic diseases, indeed, for anything, nor are there any prospects that it ever will. Yet safe and effective, non-patentable treatments abound.
It may be possible to rein in the FDA by taking away its ability to suppress free speech. Thus if a supplier clamed eating its octopus cured arthritis, but in fact its own research showed it did not, the supplier could be sued civilly and prosecuted criminally for fraud. The point is a jury, and not a compromised FDA, would decide the issue.
In 1989 I read in an English newspaper how its government had gone to Germany to hire 750 doctors to man its hospital. The article said there were 50,000 unemployed doctors in Germany, some driving taxis for a living. Pay and working conditions were so poor in English hospitals that too few were going to medical schools. In America, we have too few seats in our medical schools to supply our needs, and so since WWII we have been importing doctors. Many American medical students go to foreign medical schools to get their degrees.

Mac Moore
I said nothing grouping all big business together. Nor, did I say they were "consorting against us".

My response was to your claim that "If you are referring to business men, they do not act in consort."

That is simply untrue. I mentioned one thing... Business Roundtables. There are other mechanisms. Are you truly that naive? If you would like to be a member of one of these roundtables or other organizations, my suggestion to you would be to become very powerful in an influential international company and just maybe, you will be invited to join. ;-)




Gabby - Bush Is Rockefeller?
Gabby offers, "Most of the base is CONSERVATIVE. They have been strong-armed by the elitist Rockefellers for the last 2 elections by the THE ABORTION BOOGIEMAN. That is over, done, finis. Bush haughtily said before the November election that we had nowhere else to go."

Please try to not use pet names or esoteric jargon. "elitist Rockefellers" and "THE ABORTION BOOGIEMAN" are nearly meaningless to me. I can not follow your conversation. I am just a dumb guy. I need simple, plain-speaking verbage.

Can you cite the speach or article where Bush said that "we had nowhere else to go"? What was the context? When did he declare that Rockefeller is his model? If he did, what on earch does that mean?

Liberty - Businesses Act In Consort
Liberty offer to Mac Moore, "I said nothing grouping all big business together. Nor, did I say they were "consorting against us".

"My response was to your claim that "If you are referring to business men, they do not act in consort."

"That is simply untrue. I mentioned one thing... Business Roundtables."

My response is that Business Roundtables have nothing to do with businesses getting together to act in consort. Our only common language is Government Regulations and agreements with our Vendors and Customers.

If you have evidence otherwise, let me know.

Old Man
Mac Moore is right. You pointed out that other economies are growing faster than ours, but growth rate does not necessarily equal economic "health." I would argue that our economy is much healthier simply because we have a higher median income and greater wealth.

Imagine two runners. The first ran the 100m dash in 10 sec and then improved his time by 1%. The second ran the 100m dash in 16 sec and then improved his time by 5%. Would you say that the second runner was healthier simply because he experienced a bigger gain?

Do taxes make us better off?
Fred Thompson has once again cut straight to the heart of many issues. His comments on bureaucracy (beginning with "Every level of new bureaucracy that is created...") should be required reading for every political appointee. My only criticism involves the following passage:

"Taxes are necessary. But they don't make the country any better off. At best they simply move money from the private sector to the government. But taxes are also a burden on production, because they discourage people from working, saving, investing, and taking risks. Some economists have calculated that today each additional dollar collected by the government, by raising income-tax rates, makes the private sector as much as two dollars worse off."

Economics is all about cost-benefit tradeoffs. Thompson seems to understand this on some level, but his comment that taxes "don't make the country any better off" is simplistic and wrong, and it contradicts his previous sentence. Imagine a U.S. with no taxes and no spending. I would argue that the imposition of a tax to provide a military defense would make the country better off - even if the marginal tax dollar made the private sector, say, $4 worse off. I agree that the private sector is almost always more efficient and less corrupt than any government entity. The problem is that there are some desirable goods and services that the private sector will not or cannot provide. Classic examples are a military, border/immigration control, police, courts, roads, and public parks.

Few people argue that the optimal economy consists of 100% private sector and 0% taxes and government spending. The real argument is at what non-zero amount to draw the line on taxes. Conservatives understand that federal taxes should be lower than they are now because many government programs are inappropriate uses of federal funds, such as education, almost all entitlements/wealth transfers, and all funding for the arts.

Let's assume that the future federal tax level is 2% of GDP. Let's also assume that at that level, the marginal tax dollar makes the private sector $1.50 worse off (the current tradeoff is approximately $2.00, but this cost is subject to diminishing marginal returns). Our challenge then will be to quantify the benefit the public gains from giving up $1.50 of private spending. If an appropriate use of federal funds, such as a robust military, is determined by the country to be worth $6 on the margin for every additional tax dollar, then we will get four times the value from the last dollar taken out of private use ($1 taxed and spent by gov't is really $1.50 "lost"). Under such circumstances, including and especially passing the appropriateness test, military expenditures would create a net gain for the public and should be made. That means, ceteris paribus, that it would be rational to spend additional dollars on defense until marginal cost equals marginal benefit, and that 2% taxation would be below the optimal level.

The bottom line is that taxes do make the country better off, but not at their current level.