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Thursday, October 30, 2008
Frank Pastore :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Christian Case Against Barack Obama
by Frank Pastore
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Barack Obama portrays himself as a religious man. He says he's a believing Christian, and he's campaigned heavily for the votes of American Christians.

But does Barack Obama really promote the values of biblical Christianity?

Over the course of my life, I've made the journey from cocky major league baseball pitcher to a believer in the divinity of Christ and the eternal truth of His teachings. I believe, like so many millions of my fellow Americans, that the Bible is the Word of God, that Christianity is true, and that Jesus is the Son of God, and therefore His values are my values.

But are they Barack Obama's values?

To answer that question, I created the three-part video "The Christian Case Against Barack Obama."

You can watch the trailer here, as well as parts one, two, and three.

In the videos, I examine Obama's views on the Bible and the role of religion in politics; his views on abortion, infanticide, same-sex marriage and the ordination of homosexual clergy; his philosophy of the courts, his view of judges who make law rather than interpreting it; his socialistic tax policy designed to "spread the wealth around"; his views on the American military; and his beliefs on how we should all educate our children.

After examining the material it becomes clear that Barack Obama's words and his deeds do not reflect biblical Christianity. It is America's Judeo-Christian heritage, and our continued adherence to those principles, that make us the last best hope for mankind. We cannot hope to be that shining city on a hill without the ongoing grace of God and the guidance of His Word.

Voting for a man who sides so clearly against that Word-voting for a man who twists that Word to his own ends-voting for a man who sees himself as a messianic figure in his own right-is not merely dangerous, it means standing in opposition to the work of God on earth, as expressed through His Son Jesus Christ.

Let there be no more deceit; let there be no more obfuscation.

The Christian case against Barack Obama is clear.

No believing Christian should vote for Barack Obama on November 4.

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About The Author
The Frank Pastore Show is heard in Los Angeles weekday afternoons on 99.5 KKLA and on the web at kkla.com, and is the winner of the 2006 National Religious Broadcasters Talk Show of the Year. Frank is a former major league pitcher with graduate degrees in both philosophy of religion and political philosophy.
 
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"Christian values?"
So Mr. Pastore, who died and appointed you god?
I am a secular Catholic and that means I am Christian. . .I don't believe in forced childbearing, slavery, even the slavery of women and children, allowing the government to tell people how to live their private lives, making laws that benefit the rich at the expense of everyone else, preaching hate and derision in the name of Christ, denying healthcare to people of limited means, so some company can make a profit, allowing financial professionals to use derivitives or gambling with other people's money, rewarding the rich for bad and bankrupt behavior/performance, selling citizen-owned assets to private companies for exploitation, etc.
You have an odd sense of Christianity and I do believe you can keep it all to yourself. I firmely believe Christ would not treat women or anyone else as shamefully as the Christian Churches have done for the last 2000 years.

All I can say is
OMG! I have to give credit for these writers for their creativity, but little else. Now we're fanning the flames of religious bigotry and name-calling to further expand the McCain campaign's decent into looniness. I just don't get you rightwingers. Instead of promoting why John McCain and Sarah Palin would be good choices for high office, you keep fanning the flames of hate and fear (my, how very Christian of you, it's just like Christ!) of Obama. This election season has really exposed just how nutty the right wing has become.

The problem
Even though around 80% of US call themselves Christians, only around 10% share the same values of Christ. Religion has watered down the true word of God and has lead these people to the worldview instead of Christ's view. Obama is a perfect example. He calls himself a Christian, but there was nothing Christlike being taught in that Trinity church and, therefore, there is zero Christian fruit produced from him.

Wake up people of faith! Pah-leeeeze!
I'm continually amazed by Christians who are proud to be supporters of Barack Obama. It's so sad and frustrating to listen to preachers and believers who have made a trade-off of their Biblical values in exchange for helping to make history in voting for a black man who is a serious contender for the U.S. presidency. I've asked Obama supporters to pray that he repent on his views about abortion and same-sex marriage and was told that I am arrogant. In my prayers, I'm asking the Lord to provide clarity and undeniable truth (regardless of which candidate it may help or hurt) about this election. Apparently, church folks dont't want to look beyond the speeches and smooth mannerism. In my view, Barack Obama is bad for America in general and bad for Black America in particular.

Alice
Another perfect example..."I am a secular Catholic"? What that means is that you may believe in Christ (for eternity insurance?) but you choose to have a worldview. If you are a true Christian, that means a Christ follower, you need to stay in His word. If you read His word, you know there are two forces in this world. The evil (secular and worldly) from satan and the good (Christlike) from God. You can't be both!
Because of this view of yours, you say you don't believe in forced child bearing. I assume you mean it's OK to kill an unborn child if it is inconvenient? I'm sure Christ would agree with you. Now I bet you think I hate you in the name of Christ, but that is only your view. It is not true.

They'd be right, craig
"I've asked Obama supporters to pray that he repent on his views about abortion and same-sex marriage and was told that I am arrogant."

Well duh...

Typical godbotherer
AL writes: "Because of this view of yours, you say you don't believe in forced child bearing. I assume you mean it's OK to kill an unborn child if it is inconvenient? I'm sure Christ would agree with you. Now I bet you think I hate you in the name of Christ, but that is only your view."

"Only your view," eh? Sounds fair.

But what's the next sentence? "It is not true." Any evidence for this? Nope. AL has a direct line to the sky pixie, and AL _knows_ it's not true.

Good on ya, AL.

It's ok Mr. Pastore..
the cornerstone of all will sort it out.....

christian
I'm an evangelical Christian, born and raised in the Christian and Missionary Alliance.

And I will be voting for Obama. I'm an Obamacon (Conservative for Obama).

We (evangelicals) voted for Bush and that was a huge mistake. Bush has been one of the most incompetent Presidents in US history. Just think about the Iraq War, Katrina, and the Economic Crisis.

We need a President that is intelligent and that understands complex issues.

We are also tired of hate and fear mongering and division.

It saddens me how our Republican Party tries to exclude people (like gays and like Arabs and Muslims as they've tried to use those terms as smears against Obama).

Obama is a Christian that believes in the precepts that Jesus Christ taught. He believes in inclusion, compassion, and redemption. He believes in helping the poor and the downtrodden in society.

Bush didn't overturn Roe v. Wade. Obama believes we can reduce abortion by decreasing poverty, increasing better education, and supporting women.

Jesus wouldn't discriminate against gays. He said not to judge and if you have hate in your heart it is akin to murder. He said go and sin no more because in that day you got stoned to death for certain sins. Jesus wouldn't outcast people either.

I have been very saddened by Fox News and many of the Christian television networks for their use of fear tactics and trying to incite prejudices and racism.

We younger evangelicals are fed up with racism and homophobia. It turns too many people away from the love of Christ!

Hey, if I were a repubican
(or conservative), I wouldn't believe the polls either! They're all showing an Obama victory on Tuesday.


It's kind of like religion. There may be no god, but you must PSYCHE yourself to believe that a god exists (whether it's divine Jesus or divine Mohammed or the Sun God or Zeus or reincarnation).

Just repeat to yourself: John McCain will win! Have FAITH! It's the best you can do right now

Alice, GA
Secular Catholicism is kind of like saying my favorite sports team is the New York Yankees but I hate baseball. To say you are Catholic but then denounce one of the primary tenants of the Catholic faith, Life of the Unborn”, is disturbing. I surmise the only person you are fooling that you are a Catholic is yourself. Do you believe you are fooling God?

Will
That's ok. I've seen faith result in greater miracles than an upset for the "Chosen One."

I COULD NEVER VOTE FOR OBAMA !
THANKS BROTHER PASTORE! HOW CAN OBAMA SMILE ITS PHONY! HE CARES NOT FOR THE UN-BORN HE MOCKS THE BIBLE,HE NEEDS TO READ THE FIRST CHAPTER OF ROMANS AGAIN! OBAMA IS PHONY DUDE!

Amen Alice and Michael
The "Christian" argument against Obama "makes sense" only if you exclude what Christ actually said "Blessed are the peacemakers", "You can't serve God and money", etc.

Didn't Jesus meet with Zacheus? Who ridicules Obama for being willing to meet with unsavory leaders?

Wasn't Jesus constantly healing people? Who supports universal health care?

So much of the problem results from conservatives self seclusion. They wall themselves off from everything but Fox News and Limbaugh while the rest of the world is paying attention to the world (what conservatives deride as MSM). And then conservatives are shocked that millions of Christians view things differently than they do.

TO MICHAEL FROM KY GIVE US A BREAK!
LOOK AT THE FRUIT BARNEY FRANK!?????????what kind of fruit are you for michael!dude!???no christian should vote for obama!!!

Michael
What has Christ said on these issues? I believe He was the one who gave the commandment to Moses and the other prophets that homosexuality is a sin.

What about Obama's stance on partial birth abortion? It is better that a person hang a millstone around their neck and cast themselves into the sea than to offend (torture to death probably is included in this) one of His little ones.

Redistribution by government coersion?
I recall Christ telling the rich man to sell what he had and give it to the poor. I DON'T recall him telling the man to rob his neighbor and give his neighbor's stuff to the poor.

The example of Europe shows that when socialism increases, Christianity decreases. Why? It is simple. One of the great strengths of Christianity is the commandment to love our neighbors, to feed the hungry, and to clothe the naked. Doing so brings all involved closer to God. But when the government gets involved, it corrupts this. Now the giving is not done through charity, but through force. This created resentment rather than compassion for the poor. This is why charitable giving always goes down in places where the government is strong. Instead of helping the poor and feeling the love of God, faceless beuracrats simply pass out dependency-fostering welfare checks. instead of love, resentment and ingratitude.

Obama represents nothing I know of in Christianity.

Pastore
I took the time to look at the trailer. Unfortunately, it doesn't neccessarily make the case Mr. Pastore wants to. With the exception of the clip from Saddleback the trailer doesn't really address Barrack Obamma relative to orthodox Christianity. Although I will admit that I do not see a connection between the Sermon on the Mount and homosexuality. The Sermon on the Mount discusses how man comes to know God not the requirements of God's moral code. Nor btw is Romans obscure.

Craig
"Apparently, church folks don't want to look beyond the speeches and smooth mannerism."

If they did, they wouldn't be church folk.

Cam
I also seem to remember that Jesus ran the money changers out of the temple and repeatedly called corrupt officials a nest of vipers. He also reminded us repeatedly that he would come again not as a servant but as a king and judge.

Our choices
Our choices in this election are a moderate conservative teamed with a Christian conservative...or a liberal teamed with a liberal. This choice is as serious as life and death. Mr. Obama smiles as he encourages the murder of millions of infants, while Mr. McCain would try to save lives.

Mr. Obama is going to raise taxes on all the "rich" people, but isn't sure if that starts at $250,000, 200,000 or 44,000. Mr. McCain would rein in the most wasteful and ridiculous government spending in order to produce the same result.

Mr. Obama had to be asked to come work on the financial crisis, but had nothing helpful to say. Mr. McCain had a deal worked out, until Ms. Pelosi opened her mouth and destroyed it for fear that we'd all figure out the crisis was caused by Democratic-written regulations rather than the Republican attempts to loosed them. Yet the economy is supposed to work in Mr. Obama's favor?

Mr. Obama is even less ready to lead this country than the much maligned Mrs. Palin (who is running for VICE-President, despite all the "one heartbeat" crap.)

While Mr. McCain may not be everything we'd want in a Christian man, at least he doesn't give speeches proving that his understanding of theology is at the Kindergarten level, like Mr. Obama.

And finally, for those who are so concerned about bigotry...isn't it funny how much of it is aimed at Christians and how very, very little at those that hide behind it? If you want proof of that, it's already in the preceeding comments.

Race to HI to seal his birth certificate
Obama is no Christian, but he is also no citizen of this country, currently, yet alone being a natural born one.

Last week he spent $400,000 to fly his private jet to Hawaii supposedly for granny's sake. He spends one hour with her, and flies home. The next day we are told that the Governor of Alaska sealed his birth records there.

I would take that as an admission of guilt. If there is nothing in the birth certificates that would jeopardize his candidacy, what's with the race to Hawaii?

John McCain was born to a navial officer while he and his wife were living in Panama in 1939. Because of this, there were numerous challenges to McCain's natural born citizenship, and he had to go before the Senate in DC to have them decide on his citizenship.

They vetted McCain on this issue, which makes it even more unusual that they are giving Obama, Indonesian citizen, green card carrier, a pass.

The fact that he hid this certificate proves the facts are not on Obama's side, or he would release this piece of paper.

I say we slam this guy. I would love to see him get the lowest vote total in history, and lose every state in this country.

Well it would be ...
".isn't it funny how much of it is aimed at Christians and how very, very little at those that hide behind it?"

if it were happening. Hilarious, in fact.

"If you want proof of that, it's already in the preceeding (sic) comments."

Go on. Show us one or two that we might judge for ourselves.

Tough questions for liberal Christians..
Dr. Gary North disables Obama's kind of Christianity (and liberal Christianity in general) here by asking the tough socratic questions:

http://www.garynorth.com/public/department61.cfm

"Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote." (Exodus 20:15, as modified by the Social Gospel)

Clinton, Pelosi, etc. write bill re MAC
Since it was Clinton, Pelosi, etc., that wrote the bill to clear McCain through for his citizenship proofs, on April 18, 2008 in the Senate, I think it is clear that Hillary thought McCain was the candidate to beat in this election.

For decades, the democrats have been voting in the republican primaries to get the more centrist republicans nominated, hoping the republican conservatives will reject them. I think this was going on when Hillary and Pelosi moved heaven and earth to prove that McCain, born to a navy admiral stationed in Panama, was a natural born citizen.

Now that Obama is the dem candidate, however, Pelosi and Clinton seem to have no interest in the issue of his seemingly Indonesian citizenship. I think he is only still here because he married Michelle, which may be why he gave up homosexuality to marry a woman. He couldn't marry a man back then and get a green card.

Michelle is a very angry women. Often, angry women are women who are not truly loved by their husbands. They will take up his causes, and try to win his love by outcampaigning him in those areas. I would bet he married himself a green card, and she is emotionally starving.

Jesus
Jesus criticized the Pharisees for their legalistic religion and their lack of compassion.

Unfortunately today, many Christians are more like the Pharisees than Jesus.

The laws in Leviticus says to stone adulterers and homosexuals to death.

If Jesus agreed with that he wouldn't have protected the adulterous woman from being stoned to death.

The law had said not to touch or eat with certain people.

The law said not to help people on the Sabbath.

Jesus broke and re-defined those laws.


CAM, CA
You must be another one of those secular Christians. Jesus never said anything about government taking care of people. He talked volumes about people taking care of each other. When He talked about the peacemakers He was talking about spreading peace in personal relationships not Governments. Jesus said , “Give unto God what is God’s, give unto Cesar what is Caesar’s”. Because we live in a fallen world government must protect its citizens which includes fighting wars. When Jesus met with Zacheus he was not a government leader he was the God’s son who was interested saving Zacheus’s soul. The problem with secular Christians such as yourself you believe Obama is running for messiah instead of just for president. GK Chesterton said it best about you so called secular Christians:

"Once abolish the God, and the government becomes the God."


Michael writes
"And I will be voting for Obama. I'm an Obamacon (Conservative for Obama).

We (evangelicals) voted for Bush and that was a huge mistake. Bush has been one of the most incompetent Presidents in US history. Just think about the Iraq War, Katrina, and the Economic Crisis.

We need a President that is intelligent and that understands complex issues."

LOL. Well 3 strikes and you're out. (2 votes for bush and 1 vote for Obama).

Last I saw, Bush isn't running. And no I am voting for McBama.

Alice, babykilling secular Christian
The term 'secular' actually means non Christian, Alice. Who forces anyone to bear children? Thousands of years of women who actually loved their own offspring shows you to be a frigid hag. Even the animals love and care for their own, and search in anguish when one of their babies is lost.

You have been listening to some really evil 'antipatriarchal' garbage designed to turn you into a witch, a rebel against God, and a seriously antiChristian person.

There are some things which God says he hates, and one of them is those who tear apart the innocent. You will be one of those Christians who enjoys a long eternity in Hell, separated from a God who thinks nothing like you and can't stand the sight of you. "Depart from me, you worker of iniquity!" will be the last words you hear before the flames get you.

Ugh.

to Christine
Christine, Obama is not a homosexual. The man, Larry Sinclair, that claimed Obama was gay failed a lie detector test and then they discovered that Larry had a long criminal record of fraud.

Obama was born in Hawaii not Kenya or Indonesia.

Obama is a Christian, not a Muslim.

The people who accuse Obama of being a Muslim have obviously never been friends with a Muslim.

If Obama was a radical Muslim he wouldn't be a social liberal either.

Why repeat false accusations that have been discredited?

Why use hate and fear mongering to appeal to people's prejudices and bigotries?


Obama Is A Christian
I am a born again believer in Christ who has been taught in my conservative fundamentalist church that if you "confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." And Obama has stated and written that he accepted Christ when he knelt in front of the cross at church. So based upon Scripture he is saved and is a Christian. How sad that some have questioned another's faith based upon non-doctrinal/theological issues. Remember even Peter and Paul had an argument in the New Testament regarding the acceptance of the Jewish laws on food, etc into the church and the way that Gentile Christians were to conform to those laws. And the more open beliefs of Paul won out. We are saved by faith- not by works. As a Christian I am voting for Obama.

Michael
Compassion is when you dole out of your own pocket, from the fruits of your own labors, not someone elses.

Thou shalt not covet they neighbors house, wife, manservant, maidservant, ox, arse, or anything else. Obama covets.


They took God out of America!
No matter what people profess with their mouth is mere lip service. If someone claims to know Christ but doesn not know His word or follow Him than they are not Christian. It is the condition of their heart that matters. Born again means through acceptance of Jesus and picking up your cross and laying down you old life so your spirit can be filled with the Holy Spirit. When you are in the Spirit is then your eyes will be open to see through what people say and do. It is called discernment. We have so not used our discernment in what we have allowed in America they took God out and continue to do so. If we don't stand up and fight back we will continue to fall into a lawless society or socialistic. There is a Trojan Horse that we allowed in our gates many years ago and its army has sought to destroy us from within. We need to stand back up and take back what is ours!

http://atrojanhorse.blogtownhall.com/

those who will not see
I am puzzled by this idea that God will perform a miracle and make McCain the winner on Tuesday. Didn't God already bring the elements down on game 5 of the world series so that the game would be delayed so that it could bring viewers to Obama's infomercial without interfering with his west coast show. There has never before been a world series game that lasted less than two hours, and yet thanks to the elements the game was played exactly when it would do Obama the most good.

I think if we are looking for miracles for the election cycle, God has already spoken pretty clearly.

Matthew and Lepanto
Jesus never specifically said that giving to the pooor could be with canned goods. This "giving through government" exclusion is a lame excuse. The fact that you find democratically-decided budget allocations so objectionable calls into question conservatives' sincerity about bringing democracy to Iraq.

You are free to leave this country at any time as are the people living in the "socialist" countries. No one is forcing you to stay. If you dislike taxes and democracy, move to Somalia. They have neither there.

Taxation with resprestentation is not stealing. Taxation without representation (e.g., the unborn through conservative deficit spending) is stealing.

News flash folks - Obama opposes gay marriage. He also opposes late-term abortions. Illinois already had protections for surviving fetuses when he opposed the bill with no protections for the mother. There is major bearing of false witness going on here.

The fact is, conservatives say they want giving to be private. But they want a system that's rigged for the wealthy. The poor don't have the same access to quality schools and health care. Affirmative action is wrong but legacy admissions are fine. Being given money without earning it is a crime against humanity - unless you're inherting it, then the crime is taxing it.

Eileen, TX
Only God knows if Senator Obama is a Christian. Frank Pastore is only making the argument that he has not supported mainstream Christian positions and is justifiably doubting Obama’s sincerity. The issue that convinced me the Senator Obama is not a Christian was his vote as an Illinois Senator to not give born alive babies medical attention. I don’t believe any follower of Christ could support such a position. Understand that if you vote for Obama you are voting for such a person.

Knowing a Man's Heart
Scripture says that "the heart is deceitful above all things, and wicked; who can know it." That is the way that everyone's "heart" works. And even as Christians we still have a sinful nature. So we, as mere mortals, cannot judge another person's heart or make judgments about if they are a true Christian or not. Only God knows a person's heart and only God can judge. So if you don't want to vote for Obama based upon the issues that's fine. But you know nothing about his faith, his commitment to Christ, or how he views living out his Christian faith. You also really do not know anything about McCain and his faith. Only God knows the heart of either man.

Matthew in OHio...
Right on! Listening to Obama during the Rick Warren symposium I was struck by his lack of fruit. Saying you are a Christian and living the Word are two different things. He does not demonstrate adherence to the Word with his beliefs and political positions.

Newsflash, Cam...
Obama voted against a federal ban on partial birth abortions...take a look at what that process entails, Cam, and tell me how Obama is following the Word of God. The ban passed, Cam, by an overwhelming majority...except for your guy Obama. That's certainly protecting the life of the unborn, now isn't it!

Eileen
Don't confuse the sinful nature with our renewed spirit and heart through the Holy Spirit. Scripture says in the Spirit there is no law and out of the Spirit we are subject to the law. If you choose to be legalistic in your approach to the word of God you are missing the Spirit of what is written. You can see into a man's heart through what he says and does. Obama is not a Christian and he is an outright liar. If you can't see that you are blind.

Robin
Again - Obama has said he wants protections for the mother. Liberals just don't see the mother as a disposable quantity in this matter.

McCain says he wants to fight global warming. I don't see a lot of evidence for that but I'll take the man on his word. Conservatives should do the same with Obama on late-term abortions.

Robin cont'd
By the way, if you haven't seen Sicko yet, here's a link to the 60 Minutes story on RAM

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/28/60minutes/main388 9496.shtml?source=search_story

This shows how people live in "the most generous nation on earth". There's much more to pro-life than abortion (on which we agree more than you think).

Cam
"Conservatives should do the same with Obama on late-term abortions."

Obama voted AGAINST a ban on partial-birth abortion. That's pretty late-term.

Michael
"The laws in Leviticus says to stone adulterers and homosexuals to death. If Jesus agreed with that he wouldn't have protected the adulterous woman from being stoned to death."

Jesus also told the woman to "Go and sin no more", which indicates that He did not approve of adultery. Thus, based on your own logic, He could not have approved of homosexuality.

Yes, Jesus often criticized the Pharisees. However, the Jews in that day opposed abortion, and Jesus never took issue with them on that. Could it be He agreed with them?

reply to michael #37
Michael, I'm sure you're no more a conservative than I am. All real conservatives, such as Mr. Pastore and most TH readers, know that God is strictly on the side of conservatism. I used to think of myself as a Christian until I started reading TH. I belong to one of those awful mainline Protestant churches, and all we hear about is God's love, forgiveness, and the like. From TH I know that hatred and contempt for people you don't like are the marks of a real Christian. Real Christians have no problem with expressing their loathing of gays, and anyone else they know God hates. So, I know I can't be a Christian any more. You probably shouldn't remain one either. Come over here on the dark side with all of us liberals. I'll teach you Satan's secret handshake and give you your Devilspawn starter kit so you can vote for Obama.

I'm sorry but...
You can not be a Bible believing Christian and vote for Obama. Bottom line. Can one issue really define a candidate? Yes... when it comes to abortion. Especially when Obama voted against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act. You can try to justify if all you want but as a Christian I know that it's impossible.

Obama is religious…

Obama is a religious man and so is every other man. The question is what will a man worship?

Most men are self worshippers in that they make themselves the authority on truth or some other man. They have judged the God of the Bible and found Him lacking. They do not recognize His authority, nor will they submit to His rule. This is what it means to be in rebellion. Every man does what is right in his own eyes.

The blind faith of the atheists is that the truth they have suppressed about God is not really truth. After all there are many radical naturalists; they cannot all be wrong. Can they?

Christ said that His people hear His voice and they follow Him. He said that love toward Him is demonstrated by keeping His commandments. This is the only valid measure of faith. Many will profess Him, but they will be condemned for practicing lawlessness. Their life is characterized by lawlessness rather than obedience. The only definition of Christian that matters in the one given by Christ.

The faith of the Christian is made evident by his adherence to the Law, for love is the fulfillment of the Law and the definition of what is good.

For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. [Romans 13:9-11]

Christianity is defined by the Bible
God's word. If you believe anything else other than what is found in those pages, you cannot legimately call yourself a Christian.

The world "Christian" was first used at Antioch as recorded in the book of Acts. The church at Antioch was Paul's first church. He was brought there by Barnabas to help teach these unschooled Gentiles how to be the best Christians they could be. Therefore, we can surmise that the first "Christians" believed what Paul taught in his letters (though these had yet to be written). So, to call yourself a Christian means you must believe those things that you find written in those letters.

Paul spoke strongly of salvation by faith with the implication (the word does't appear, but the Greek stress conveys the meaning) that faith is the ONLY means to salvation (thus, faith alone). Paul wrote against sexual immorality of all types (including homosexuality and incest). Paul affirmed the sanctity of marriage was between one man and one woman. He also taught that there was no slave or free, no Greek or Jew, in the kingdom of God -- concepts that speak against slavery and racism. He encouraged a strong and steadfast resistence to sinners degrading the church, but an expansive forgiveness toward repentent sinners. This is what Christians are to affirm.

However, no where will you ever find him saying that because you attend this or that church you are a Christian. In fact, he called many who were leaders in Ephesus heretics and false teachers and proclaimed the accursed.

In other words, you don't get to decide for yourself if you're a Christian. You can only claim that title if you're in right standing with God. Obama's political platform is opposed to the Bible in many places. I therefore must conclude that he is either not a Christian or he has gone very much astray. The Church of God is called to correct those who go astray, not elect them to public office.

I'm
voting for Obama and believe he's a good Christian. It is actually an odd thing for a Christian to even write an article like this. I've been a member of a church since I was baptized 48 years ago and no one has ever charged a fellow Christian like this. Never.

Anyone getting stomach cramps?
Pastore made some points, but I agree with some others here that little was presented in the column or in the sample videos that was relevant to the question of BHO's Christianity.

That isn't to say there is nothing out there that isn't relevant to the question of BHO in general, including his Christianity. It's just that Pastore didn't present much of it.

What comes most to my mind about BHO as a candidate in general is his contrived messianic posturing. For example, on his 30 minute tv ad yesterday, the fool was sitting by a window in the most orchestrated, contrived, pose I'd ever seen a person off the stage assume, as though this nobody from Chicago were already a mythical American leader from an epic period in our history.

This also led me to consider what the whole epic theme is about, exactly. And it seems there is no other conclusion than that BHO wove together this theme to make blacks think he is about to embark
on a crusade against whitey, and every one else think he is about to deliver them from something wicked that only he the chosen one can do.

And just this morning the obamessiah said: "My faith in the American people has been vindicated".

Anyone else getting stomach cramps?

Cam writes:
"Taxation with resprestentation is not stealing."

Is it charity? What if you refuse to pay taxes?
Complete utter nonsense.

Theft comes in various forms. Biblically, "rulers" who debased currency were guilty of theft. We have a federal reserve that debases currency (which Obama supports). Taxation under pharoah was "oppressive" at 20% ....but no problem for Obama.

The greatest irony....democrats cry foul play about "trickle down" economics....and there is Barrack Obama voting for a bailout of the uber rich...in order to have a trickle down effect.

Don't fall for this socialist fool who covets what others have labored for. And don't vote for McCain either.

Implications of the social gospel...
1) Destroy's incentive to work.
2) Enlarges the State.
3) Replaces God
4) Destroys wealth
5) Creates co dependency with the State
6) Increases poverty

don't believe me....read the history in:

http://www.amazon.com/Conservative-History-American-Left/dp /0307339467/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225388803&sr=8- 1


Christ's non government.
Christ did not come to this world to found a government to enforce his laws. "My kingdom is not of this world."

Dosesn't God say pay a faithful tithe (10%) and give additional liberal offerings to His church? Aren't families and churches suppose to care for the poor in a Christian society?
BO claims to be a Christian but has until quite recently given almost nothing to his racist church or to any charity.

BO will not share his wealth through giving to charity but claims the high moral ground of wanting to share the evil corporations and the evil rich's wealth through taxation. This is a socialist/communist belief and has nothing to do with Christianity.

Charitable giving does as much for the giver as the receiver! If the Lord loves a cheerful giver He must not have much love for team Obama n Biden a couple of scrooges if ever there was such!

Love God is the first commandment and the second is love your brother as yourself! Who is my brother?

Christ gave the parable of the good Samaritan as an example of someone who bound up the wounds and paid out of his own pocket for the care of a robbery victim. BO wants to get everyone to vote him into power so he can tax all to so he can share the wealth under his self developed formula.

Would a Christian belong to a church whose primary tenent is not the Bible but something called THE BLACK VALUE SYSTEM a racist screed that is up once again at BO's ole church's website tucc.org. (Homepage/About Us/ scroll down)

According to TBVS when a black kills a black it was all caused by a racist white society. Neat concept where no one is responsible for what they do but all ills can be blamed on ole whitey.

This is the gospel according to Trinity United Church of Christ and Rev oh so Wrong! This is the church of choice of BO and Michelle for over 20 years.

Who is a Christian?
Jesus said, "For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother." Those who do the will of the Father are of God; those who do not, are in league (wittingly or not) with evil. I don't know anyone who does the will of the Father perfectly, so it's unwise to cast stones -- but, I'd not choose a leader who aligns himself with humanistic philosophies as Obama does. The will of the Father is revealed in scripture and in our hearts as we submit to him (which is never in contradiction with his written word). Anyone who imagines that Obama's doctrines are in any way compatible with the Father's attitude toward the unborn (and many other areas) has not read or pondered much on scripture. Sure Obama can check the Christian box on a form, anyone can, but that means nothing. I expect him to continue doing what he has done all along -- espouse secular humanistic philosophy.

aurora
Paul also said the women should remain silent in the church and, basically, that the solution to slavery was for the slaves to get used to it. Interpret what Paul said in the context of what Christ said, not the other way around.

heresyarch - Taxes are the price of living in a civilized society. I remember that my Boy Scout Handbook listed the Rights and Responsibilities of US citizens. There in black and white under Responsibilities was "Paying taxes". Paying taxes has never bothered me. You'd be much happier if you could take that bitterness out of your life and feel proud to contribute to your country.

Enjoy the darkness…
You know…

I’m about exhausted, fighting these culture wars…

Woodstock won…

We lost…

“Christians” telling other “Christians” you can’t impose your religion…

Our society went from being predominantly churches…

To being predominantly street gangs…

I wonder if the street gangs listen to your drivel about you can’t impose anything….

Enjoy the darkness…



JAG - BHO's contributions
You're correct in that BHO does not himself directly contribute much to his Church of 20 years. However he did use his positions at Annenburg and Woods foundations to funnel quite a bit of money to his Church.

Obama Confused about Christianity?

"I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me." Jesus Christ

"I'm rooted in the Christian tradition. I believe that there are many paths to the same place." Barack Obama
--------------------------------------------

Barack Obama's theological position is that Jesus Christ was wrong about being the 'Only Way' to God, but Obama still puts his faith and trust in Jesus Christ.

Barack Obama believes that all religions, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Animists and so on know and worship the same God.

--------------------------------------------


Obama's prayers are questions to himself and he answers himself.
--------------------------------------------
"It's not formal, me getting on my knees," he says. "I think I have an ongoing conversation with God.... I'm constantly asking myself questions about what I'm doing, why I am doing it." Barack Obama

"The difficult thing about any religion, including Christianity, is that at some level there is a call to evangelize and proselytize. There's the belief, certainly in some quarters, that if people haven't embraced Jesus Christ as their personal savior, they're going to hell." Barack Obama

"I don't presume to have knowledge of what happens after I die," he says. "When I tuck in my daughters at night, and I feel like I've been a good father to them, and I see in them that I am transferring values that I got from my mother and that they're kind people and that they're honest people, and they're curious people, that's a little piece of heaven" Barack Obama



--------------------------------------------
All quotes taken from Ill. State Senator and U.S. Senate Democratic candidate Barack Obama with questions and answers at the Salem Baptist Church Sunday, March 14, 2004, in Chicago.
(AP)

And it's exposed just how blind the left
wing has become. Anyone who can fall for Obama's leftist illuminati rhetoric packaged as a progressive approach to spreading the wealth is in need of serious therapy (by a non-Christian counselor, of course..wouldn't want to offend anyone!).

Cam...
During partial birth abortion (you seem to want to call them "late term abortions," but let's be clear on what they are), the baby is delivered except for the head. The physician inserts a metal surgical instrument into the base of the baby's brain and kills the child. The only "legal" way this procedure can be performed is by leaving the head in the mother's body...otherwise it would be infanticide because the baby would be separate from the mother. How is the mother's life endangered if the baby is born except for the head? What is the problem with delivering all of the baby rather than just the body? Is that going to endanger the mother? This is murder, Cam, infanticide. There were, I believe, only 2 votes in favor of this procedure...one of which was Barack Obama's. All of the rest of the senate voted with the president in banning this procedure. I have done extensive research on this and find no rationale for the procedure. It is inhumane and should not be an option in a civilized society. Where is the "freedom of choice?" If that was any other animal aside from a human, would our society tolerate it? We are outraged at the slaughter of baby seals but turn a blind eye to the destruction of human babies...that is not Christianity (which is the subject of this article, if I'm not mistaken).

Obama's and Partial Birth Abortion

Five steps to a partial birth abortion:
---------------------------------------

1) Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist grabs the baby's legs with forceps.

2) The baby's leg is pulled out into the birth canal.

3) The abortionist delivers the baby's entire body, except for the head.

4) The abortionist jams scissors into the baby's skull. The scissors are then opened to enlarge the skull.

5) The scissors are removed and a suction catheter is inserted. The child's brains are sucked out, causing the skull to collapse. The dead baby is then removed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 2004, as a candidate Barack Obama's wife Michelle, sent out a fundraising appeal to keep 'Partial Birth Abortion' a legitimate procedure and Constitutional right.

"U.S. Senate candidate Barack Obama's wife, Michelle, sent a fund-raising letter with the "alarming news" that 'right-wing politicians' had passed a law stopping doctors from stabbing half-born babies in the neck with scissors, suctioning out their brains and crushing their skulls. Michelle called partial-birth abortion 'a legitimate medical procedure,' and wouldn't supporters please pay $150 to attend a luncheon for her husband, who would fight against 'cynical ploy[s]' to stop it?"

Obama and BAIPA
Pam Sutherland is the president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council. She says Obama voted "present" at least seven times to provide cover to other abortion-rights supporters on such bills as the "Born Alive Infant Protection Act."

"He came to me and said: 'My members are being attacked. We need to figure out a way to protect members and to protect women,'" said Sutherland in recounting her conversation with Obama. "A 'present' vote was hard to pigeonhole which is exactly what Obama wanted."

The Wall Street Journal reported, some of the specific abortion votes in question include two occasions in 1997 (HB 382 and SB 230) when he voted "present" on bills which would have prohibited a procedure referred to by its critics as "partial-birth abortion." In 2001, he voted "present" on two parental notification abortion bills (HB 1900 and SB 562), and he voted "present" on a series of bills (SB 1093, 1094, 1095) that sought to protect a child if he or she survived a failed abortion.

NDP&F
Monday, November 3

National Day of Prayer and Fasting that God will have mercy on America and give us one last chance to repent before we lose our liberty once and for all...

Obama and Infanticide - NO empathy
Babies Crying in Terror
The 'Born Alive' baby who has known the closest contact with another human any human can experience - the baby has been inside another human for months.

The baby has kicked, stretched and some even suck their thumbs. Every need has been met by its human host - shelter, nourishment and safety.

Suddenly one day the baby is attacked with chemicals and poisons.

The baby enters a world bent on death and destruction towards its life.

The baby has never seen a butterfly, puppy, pretty colors or things all babies enjoy or had any human say I love you.

The baby enters the world in excruciating pain and the best trained Medical experts in the world refuse the baby any aid - in a hospital - where all facilities are available and the Doctors have sworn to protect all human life - except his.

The baby is thrown on a cold table and left to die in some hidden place.

The baby struggles to breathe because a human is born with the human will to survive. The baby cries in terror and sobs for help - that never comes - no one cares.

The innocent baby tries to live with every breath and dies alone, abandoned like a used kleenex, never having experienced anything but pain, rejection and hatred.

When the baby finally dies a death of torture and the ultimate rejection any human can receive, it is such a worthless human it doesn't even have a 'Death Certificate' issued that it ever existed.

For a few minutes, hours or days, that baby WAS an American Citizen, that should have received all of the 'Rights and Protections' under law, that any other American Citizen should have.

Michelle and Barack Obama and most Democrats, have done everything humanly possible, to make sure this baby does NOT even receive any pain medication.




Geek...
God bless you...and God bless America. :-)

By the grace of God...
This country has been graced and blessed by the Almighty God in ways this world has never seen.

Obama is NOT a Christian. His stance on abortion/infanticide alone proves it. I have three friends who claim to be Christians and yet they are all "in the tank" for Obama. The serve two masters (God and Satan) and don't even know it.

If we are indeed to remain the "shining city on a hill" we MUST adhere, nay repent, and return to the Word of God.

And I am happy to report that I am responsible for one LESS vote for BO Hussein (even if it's in the blue state of California).

2 - Enjoy the darkness…
Exodus 11, The God of justice said to Moses: “I will bring one more plague on Pharaoh and on Egypt… About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh who sits on the throne to the firstborn son of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and the cattle”… NIV

The only reason this happened, is because somebody was keeping count of how many Jew babies were thrown into the Nile River by the Egyptians, and really pissed off, and there must be eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life…

If you can’t handle this kind of justice, follow another God…

Okay, I know, Jesus didn’t talk about abortion…

Okay, maybe Jesus was upset with the Father about all that messy bloodshed, and laws that were impossible to follow, and wanted to end it?

Sorry, Matthew 5:17-19 Jesus said not one cross of the “t” or dot of the “i” in the law will be changed by him…”Do you think that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of the pen will by any means disappear from the law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who beaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven”…

Somebody has kept count of how many abortions you had in the US…

There will be justice…

No Christian or non-christian
For that matter should cast their vote for Obama if they believe in the separation of powers, or other tenets of the constitution.

Listen to Obama in his own words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

What would Jesus do?
Anyone reading thru all of the pontificating and self-righteous posturing on some of these columns would mistakenly equate Christian with Demagogue/Bigot/Jingoist.

Its becoming quite clear that there may be NO Christians on this website!

How do we know.

Easy.

We administer the test question "What would Jesus say and do".

None of the columns seem to pass this rigorous test!

God Help us all. Thank Geek!
Geek- I had to forward your graphic and heart rendering description of what happens these babies to everyone in my address book. I like the article, but your comment points to the inhumanity of Obama, along with the Doctors and nurses that stand aside and let this crime continue.
Where is our country headed, can we ignore this horror! How did we get here at this point of accepting something,so terrible as letting a baby suffer so badly. If this continues
we are worst than any NAZI that said they were just following orders. I ask you to let retired geeks comment find it's way into your heart.

Robin
I am fully aware of the details of both D&X and D&E. I make sure the kids in my confirmation class hear them even though they'd prefer not to. I just trust Obama to do the right thing on the most issues.

It seems in Robin's world, Christianity = abortion, plain and simple. A "civilized society" would also not let 18,000 people die each year for lack of health care. A "civilized society" would feel remorse for the tens of thousands of lives lost in an invasion launched on false pretenses.

frank
I learned at church that the heart of Christianity lays at having a personal relationship with God.

Too many Conservatives want to get the state involved with this relationship. Namely, by mandating a school prayer. They want to pass a law that mandates a school prayer. These Conservatives want to replace the personal relationship with God, with a contract between Big Government, a student and God, himself. This is not right.

As a matter of fact, a student may pray whenever he or she chooses! And we don't need a government official mandating one.

Cam writes:
"Paying taxes has never bothered me. You'd be much happier if you could take that bitterness out of your life and feel proud to contribute to your country."

Tears are welling up in my eyes as I hear the star-spangled banner play.

You have no idea what I contribute to my country, pal. I'll put my tax returns up to yours any day. Charitable donations, as well as taxes paid, It wouldn't surprise me one bit if I am 10X your contribution to both.

Can't answer me intellectually and rationally, can you?

The bible considers pharoah's 20% tax oppressive. it is no problem for Obama.
Obama also supports government theft by bailing out rich bankers via the Federal reserve system. End of story.

Why not a 100% tax Cam, so we can all go home and reap the fruits of government theft, and sit around on our lazy arses.


Frank...
you always had a rag arm... it's obvious you have rags in your head instead of brains. Obama is one of my children, and your presumptuous religious slander dismays me. Quit using my name to promote your particular brand of US politician.

Threateningly,
The Omnipotent Omniscient Originator

heresarch
Jesus also said "that the old woman who gives her last dime gives more than the rich man who gives $1000."

This quote must fall on deaf ears to many Christians here and many may say that Jesus simply had a bad day.

Jesus also said, "That it's harder for a camel to go throug the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God."

You will never here right-wing televangelists give this straight-talk. As far as they are concerned, they believe and preach the Gospel of Wealth, where Jesus was sacrificed, so they, too, can become a millionaire.


Christian Obama supporters
Review 1Samuel, Chapter 8

heresarch
"Review 1Samuel, Chapter 8 "

Wasn't the point of Jesus dying on the cross to make a new Covenant with God for mankind.

For example, the Mosiac law proscribed thousand's of words of dietary rules.

Jesus replaced all these dietary rules with this, "it's not what a person eats or drinks that matters, but what he thinks and feels."

I don't know how anyone can
call themselves Christian and support abortion, infanticide, or gay marriage.

These are clearly no-no's.

Honestly, support whatever you want but don't fool yourself or try to fool others about your professed religion.

It is the equivalent of being Muslim but not believing Mohammed is the prophet.

It just doesn't make any sense. I believe a lot of people just say they are whatever their parents were or whatever furthers their social life, etc.

As to Jesus not saying the same things as God the father - he never contradicts God the father and how could he as they are one and the same.

Zapidtdoodat scribbles:
"Jesus also said "that the old woman who gives her last dime gives more than the rich man who gives $1000."

Oh, yeah, I now do recall Jesus admonishing donations to the Roman empire that was about to sack the temple, "within one generation, leaving not one stoned unturned"...you are right.

Thanks for your biblical exegesis....brilliant. I'm going out to pull the lever for Rome, and their eagle standards of abomination of desolation!.


zapdoodat please go to church
zapdoodat, please go to church. You'll be suprised that most churches are not interested in your money. How many televangelist do you see visiting the sick in hospitals, or comforting families after a death...not many so please don't confuse the real thing with a fake. Visit a church and discover the truth.

Theologican zippidity doodat writes:
"Wasn't the point of Jesus dying on the cross to make a new Covenant with God for mankind."

Yes. What has that to do with God Law. You mean we have a license to sin...get out of jail free card? Antinomianism rules, just believe and be baptised?

When Jesus said, "go and sin no more" was he referring to arbitrary utilitarian standards?

First thing when faced with biblical truth that you don't like, attack the biblical truth.


Alice
as a fundamental belief of the Catholic church is that all life is sacred you cannot be proabortion and Catholic - you just can't. The Church has made that clear over and over. And as Catholicism has clear doctrine handed down by the Pope, you may be proabortion but Catholic you are not. Abortion is a mortal sin, and supporting it is not ok.

I would suggest you take a serious look at how women live in the West versus the rest of the world and thank God for Christianity.

Ralph
People in this discussion group are evaluating BHO's Christianity by comparing his words/actions to known Christians, and there is nothing wrong with that. Where you have ever seen people do otherwise, and identify a Christian by comparing that person's words and deeds to those of Jesus?

heresarch
"Oh, yeah, I now do recall Jesus admonishing donations to the Roman empire that was about to sack the temple, "within one generation, leaving not one stoned unturned"...you are right."

You're confused. You are talking about the story of giving unto Caesar what is Caesar's.

The story of the woman giving her last dime is a story about how Christians should help the poor. An idea, which you seemingly, mock.



zapitditydoodat writes:
"Jesus also said, "That it's harder for a camel to go throug the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God."



Oh, Oh, I just remembered something.

Obama is rich! I knew he wasn't a Christian! Thanks. Guess I am not pulling the lever for the devil incarnate afterall.

Lulu
You casually throw the word proabortion around.

I don't believe that when a woman hires someone to kill her unborn baby that she should be charged with first degree murder as you apparently do. Does that mean I'm proaborion?

If a woman is raped, and that woman gets an abortion, would you sentence her to life in prison for first degree murder? When you contract to kill someone, that is defined nder law as first degree murder. Hopefully, you will not sacrifice the rights of the unborn child with what is politically expedient in your answer.


yes zapdoodat
Christians should help the poor it is called private charity. If your money is confiscated by the government to "help" the poor it does you no good as it was not freely given.

And zapdoodat religiously observant Christians give a lot more to charity than other groups.

Are you aware that the largest private provider of social welfare services in the US is the Catholic church?

As a Christian
As a Christian.......

You give through your church and charity and not because your government takes it from you for redistribution

"Render to Cesar"

zippidity writes
"The story of the woman giving her last dime is a story about how Christians should help the poor. An idea, which you seemingly, mock."

You got the first part right. Helping the poor via personal charity. Read my earlier post....I already explain charity is not using the fruit of your neighbor's labor. Charity is the fruit of your *own* labor. A concept that can't get through your head or your collective heads.

Ever read the story of the tower of Babel? Do you know the difference between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Man?

Guess what. Human Government...certainly our secularized Babelized form is never portrayed as the Kingdom of God.

For every dollar of what you call charity to the government (note not by voluntary giving, but by threat of punishment), a small fraction actually make it to helping the poor. Most goes to line bureaucrats pockets (ACORN is just one sad example). I'd rather remove government from the responsibility and give it back to the church. More efficiency, less corruption. Or does not Fannie and Freddie mean anything to you?


heresyarch even the poorest are rich
heresyarch even the poorest are rich in our great country when compare with the living standards of the world.
I'm more concerned with the inhumanity of allowing babies to be destoryed by the grotesque multi-billion dollar death industry. Obama, has accepted 30 million from this baby killing machine this year.

zapdoodat
you've lost your mind. where did I say first degree murder?

To answer your questions though I believe that if a baby survives an abortion and you knowingly leave it to die you should face murder charges (that means the mother, doctors, nurses, anyone involved)

I, also, believe that doctors should face criminal charges for performing abortions. And as I believe unborn children have the right to life I would not sanction abortion because of the circumstances of the child's conception.

Life is the most basic right without it all other so-called rights are meaningless.

Oh and as babies are poisoned, decapitated, burned, dismembered, etc., all in the name of women's rights I'm not that concerned about the made-up right to choose. There is always the adoption choice so I can't see any reason why abortion needs to be an option.

I always find ironic
lefties find government taxation as "charity", so they are not charitable...look at Obama, Bidens, Gores, Kerry's, Clinton collective tax returns.

However conservatives are overwhelmingly charitable, *and* pay their taxes.

Yet these facts never seem to enter the collective of the left.

A tough, tough read for zippidity:


http://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Cares-Compasionate-Conserv atism/dp/0465008216/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=12254094 95&sr=8-3


FredHeadBill writes:
I'm more concerned with the inhumanity of allowing babies to be destoryed by the grotesque multi-billion dollar death industry. Obama, has accepted 30 million from this baby killing machine this year."

You got that right. But it was above his pay grade. Translation: He shouldn't be president.

heresyarch
If we're comparing, I'm a tithe-plusser.

In Pharoah's day, he was the wealthiest person in the country. Today, the US president wouldn't even rank in the top 100. So the taxing motives are entirely different. That's a very poor application of scripture.

How do you suggest we pay our bills without a progressive system? Typically, conservatives don't care about paying our bills ("Reagan proved deficits don't matter") and are fine with having our kids pay.

Obama went along with (but amended) the bailout plan proposed the president you voted for twice. Were it not for the Republican worship of deregulation, we would have never even gotten into that mess.

Since we're throwing around scripture here. Let me mention my favorite one that conservatives just don't get:

Deuteronomy 8

17 You may say to yourself, "My power and the strength of my hands have produced this wealth for me." 18 But remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your forefathers, as it is today


heresyarch
I read Brook's book. First of all, his data is based on people's statements rather than their proven actions.

He makes a big deal about comparing San Francisco's charitable contributions with South Dakota's. He doesn't manage to mention that the people of SF voted to have a minimum wage double that of South Dakota's. Shouldn't we value work.

He just defines out (as you do) collective support from any government agency. If a 10,000-member church organization votes 51% to 49% to fund a homeless shelter, that's OK. But if a community of 3,000 people votes 99% to 1% to do the same thing, that's theft.

He presents the incompatible arguments that liberals are wealthier but prefer government charity because that will use "other people's money". Given our progressive tax system, we liberals should be paying more. Like "pro-abortion", "other people's money" is a clever but misleading creation.

He wrongly predicts that western Europe's (who he acknowledges treats its poor better) economy will tank. The Euro surged in value over the dollar.

Finally, he displays the typical oblivion of conservatives on matters like global warming, peak oil, and the depletion of fresh water and fisheries by claiming that it's "selfish" to have small families.

So guys, what is the conservative plan to provide every American with access to quality education and health care with charity?

Empowerment
RE:"So guys, what is the conservative plan to provide every American with access to quality education and health care with charity?"

How will Obama's plan empower them to provide for themselves?

Jacqueline
Kids are supposed to provide their own quality education? If you watch Sicko, you can see how insurance companies screw working, insured people out of health services. Liberals want to provide universal access to health care like every other industrialized nation on earth.

You folks need to decide who your Lord is, Jesus Christ or Adam Smith.

Read an online prophecy today
It said that God told him that the United States will elect the most ungodly man for president, in its history.

I still don't know who's going to win.

Cam...
in "Robin's world," abortion would be NOT EQUAL to Christianity...I am assuming that's what you meant. You speak of lives lost in an "invasion launched on false pretenses." I assume you are speaking to the war in Iraq. Since I have family members who have either served or are serving in Iraq at this time, I will say I don't take the loss of life lightly. I will also say, however, that my son-in-law told me "I signed up for this duty...no one made me do it...I'm doing it because it's the right thing to do." I have yet to hear a baby ask to be aborted. I think when God speaks to the "innocents," we must appreciate that none are so innocent as those not yet born. Coming from a medical background, Cam, I can also say I appreciate the fact that many people in this country go without medical care due to lack of funds and/or lack of insurance. However, Cam, we must pick a reason to vote for or against a person to become our president. I have chosen to vote biblically...to me, that means voting for those who are pro-life...it may mean something else to you. That's the beauty of this country, don't you think? For right now, we have the right to disagree.

Re Lulu...
"As to Jesus not saying the same things as God the father - he never contradicts God the father and how could he as they are one and the same."

Lighten up Lulu...

There is a serious problem in the WWJD crowd that think Jesus was a hippy...

He would never be like the brutal God of the old testament...

He never talked about abortion...

He was all peace and luv...

My whole answer to that question was Jesus was fufilling every dot of the "i" and cross of the "t" in the law and prophets...

He isn't in any sense different from the God of the old testament...

He always agrees with the Father...




Quality education
RE:"Kids are supposed to provide their own quality education?"

That is why God gave them parents and the Republicans support school choice.


O's quality ed = sex ed in K
Obama voted for Senate Bill 99

"Senate Bill 99 struck out grade six, changing it to kindergarten,

in addition to making a few other changes in wording. It read:

Each class or course in comprehensive sex education in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV."

ob

Make Believe Christians
Michael, Alice, Cam
Man you have it wrong. Alice-you can't be secular and Christian. Secular philosophy teaches there is no need for a Savior.
Michael, Cam, Which one of you stated Jesus broke the Law. So now He's a sinner? This is your argument? Please, for your soul's sake STOP. REPENT.
I implore all of you and all self proclaiming Christians-for-Obama to read the Word. While I realize we're voting for fallen men to lead our country, the diametrically opposed differences of the candidates offer a huge distinction as to whom Christians should support.
Abortion(before I formed you in the womb I knew you-God hates the shedding of INNOCENT blood), greed(that's right, choosing to not work and still get paid is a sin-he who will not support his family is worse than an unbeliever), homosexual rights(Romans1) among others.
Lib Christians want the Gospel, but not the Law. If all the sins Obama and you promote aren't sins, then why did Christ have to die? Jesus didn't call His disciples to believe, but to follow Him.
To those of you who insist on taking the Word out of context, wrap your heart around this- WOE TO THEM WHO CALL EVIL GOOD, AND GOOD EVIL!

what part of "born alive".......
What part of "born alive" does Barack Obama not understand?

Barack Obama voted against the identical version of Born Alive in Illinois. Then, for the next 4 years he repeatedly misrepresented his vote until it was recently discovered in the IL General Assembly archives.

It would seem to me a Harvard Grad would be able to infer from the title "Born Alive Act"
that the baby was definitely alive.

BUT Senator Obama has told us he does not know when life begins. It is "above his pay grade".


Mr. Pastore
It is the equivalence to "Sin" when we compare ourselves to others. I guess you were Pitching the night that lesson was taught. In point of fact the Koran teaches this lesson more passionately. There are several other lessons on the subject taught in the Torah. I suggest that you try reading a book in your spare time. Please...

O's Aunt lives in a slum
Zeituni Onyango, the aunt so affectionately described in Obama's best-selling memoir "Dreams fFrom My Father," lives in a disabled-access flat on a rundown public housing estate in South Boston.

A second relative believed to be the long-lost "Uncle Omar" described in the book was beaten by armed robbers with a "sawed-off rifle" while working in a corner shop in the Dorchester area of the city. He was later evicted from his one-bedroom apartment for failing to pay $2,324.20 in bills, according to the Boston Housing Court.

Frank
Jesus proclaimed that any man who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery. This means that many Christians today, live most of their adult life as adulterers, including Reagan, McCain and Newt Gingrich. Why cherry-pick your outrage at sinners?

Jesus gives many quotes about giving to the poor. Too many of today's pretend-Conservatives have re-interpreted this to mean, "Give to the poor, so long as they put in a good day's work."

Jesus says, "It's harder for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God."

Want to give a definition of being 'rich'? In biblical times a rich person was someone who could afford to eat meat everyday. Could that same definition apply today. Don't many of today's poor go to bed hungry at night.

Today's mainstream churches preach the 'Gospel of Wealth' gospel, which is not what Jesus preached and is anti-ethical to the spirit of the New Testament.

Lulu
"I, also, believe that doctors should face criminal charges for performing abortions."

You ducked and dodged my question. In the eyes of the law, the mother is as culpable as the doctor. If you contract for the commission of a crime it's as though you did it yourself. Once again, how many years in prison for the mother?

The only reason you don't hold the mother as guilty as the doctor is for reasons of political expediency.

O wants to change constitution
Obama wants to REMOVE our "Constitutional constraints"
------
Obama can not uphold the Presidential Oath
-------
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
-------
Obama wants to REMOVE our "Constitutional constraints"

Re: Ranger29...
It's not that they are on opposing sides of the NT...

It's that they are on opposing sides of the cold war...

Obama's liberation theology is about rich oppressive white Europeans for the past 500 years have dominated the black poor oppressed victims...

It's my fault Africans would rather dance than punch a timeclock...

The government must bring down every mountain and raise up every valley...

That doesn't come from the bible; it comes from Marx...

They have every God given right to be Marxist...

But Marxism will never work...

It's a bad idea...

Obama and abortion
Someone needs to remind Senator Obama that groups like Planned Parenthood target lower income, and in particular, African-American communities across the country for abortion. They are systematically depleting, if not, destroying these communities. Mark Steyn writes about the same situation with regards to European nations losing their identity. If I was a community leader, I would be outraged. Where was the outrage from Senator Obama, when he was a community leader?

Robert
One may vote against any candidate one wishes to for any reason whatsoever.

THAT'S American.


Prominent Black Leaders Support McCain
In a powerful video with personal testimonials, key black conservative leaders, including Dr. Alveda C. King, the niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.,

talk about how their faith influences the policies and politics they support. These black Americans state eloquently why they support Sen. John McCain and cannot, in good conscience, support Sen. Barack Obama.

A primary reason cited by these black American leaders is Obama's radical position on abortion, including the fact that Obama voted four times in the Illinois Senate against the bill that would provide health care to babies born alive after a botched abortion......"

More at: http://newsblaze.com/story/20081019083329zzzz.nb/topstory. html

Jacqueline
"Obama wants to change constitution and
Obama wants to REMOVE our "Constitutional constraints"

This is sheer shrillness and lunarcy. It takes 3/4 of state legislatures to approve a Constitutional amendment. Unlikely to happen, since at least one third of the states are true RED.




Thomas
"They are systematically depleting, if not, destroying these communities."

Because the African-American community is growing, despite your shrillness and overt call to emotion.

Robert
And what do you think differing interpretations of the NT are concerned with?

Barack Obama is Jesus
I think all Christians should vote for Barack Obama since he is Jesus reincarnated, a kind man full of love and compassion.

food laws
Jesus said that it is not what goes into a man's mouth that defiles him but what comes out of his mouth that defiles him.

This upset the Pharisees because they had Laws about not eating certain foods and for washing their hands before eating.


lars
Yeah, but he's probably had cosmetic surgery on those ears.

Re: Ranger29...
"do you think that everyone in his congregation bought that? (actually I think most of them did...but moving on)."

They are on the wrong side of the cold war because they are anti-establishment rabblerousing Marxists and Cultural Marxists...

They think God is against the whites because they are rich and powerful...

They think God is on the side of the blacks because they are poor and oppressed...

They are a tribe...

Every tribe is ethnocentric...

They think they are better than all the surounding tribes...

They think they are right and all the surrounding tribes are morons...

I'm not going to respond to all your points because they don't interest me. Someone else can...

Robert
Read 1 Corinthians 5:12 lately?

Robert
Look.

There never was a representative democratic republic like ours until long after the NT was written. Indeed, I could argue that unless the NT had BEEN written, there never would have been one either, but that's a discussion for another time.

What you are saying is, in effect, that no one may allow their spiritual or religious understandings to inform their political positions.

THAT, sir, is Un-American. And displays an ignorance of the historical development of our political system.

That idea may be gaining adherants in our increasingly secularized culture but it is not yet been ratified into law.

Robert
I would argue that to EXCLUDE God from politics is the greater sin.

Re: Ranger29...
I think Vlad the Impaler was a defender of the faith...

I have no problem with Christians slaughtering the Muslims...

McCain Cheated on First Wife..
He sold his soul by letting Neo-Cons take over his campaign. Letting parasites run a campaign, the same ones who helped throw the country under the train is totally un Christian with all the pain that they have caused in our country.

An administration that cares for the "Widow and Orphans" is one of the standards by which we can judge a administration. Obama wins there, in regards to health, economics,

Pharasees, you should be ashamed of yourselves!

Obama is Jesus
Chuck, you might be right on that one, but that only shows Obama's commitment to God, because now he can hear God's words much better. God will vote for Obama and so should all Christians who loves God.

lars
Seen my post #101?

Al
You're a funny guy.

The Pharisees were the ones who made people do religious things by passing laws instead of encouraging their hearts.

lars
Don't you think that if his ears were more perpendicular to his head, like they usesd to be, he'd be able to catch the sound waves more effectively?

The Christian Case Against Barack Obama
Senator Obama has spoken in favor of choice, equal rights for gays, etc. What is troubling is that he has stated on more than one occasion that he would work with Congress to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act. This action would de-codify every law prohibiting marriage between same sex couples, and force each and every state to recognize same sex marriages allowed in other states. In addition, he has already stated that he wants to see the "Freedom of Choice Act" voted into law, thus nullifying every law that would limit any form of abortion. I cannot question Senator Obama's Christianity; who can know another's heart? What I can do is remind everyone who considers themselves Christian that Scripture explicitly says, "Woe to them that call evil good." Whatever Senator Obama's personal relationship with God may be, by no stretch of the imagination can his worldview be construed as Christian. Alice states that she is a Secular Catholic. I submit that she may be what Governor Hugh Carey (in referring to Gov. Cuomo) called a Cafeteria Catholic. Many members of the Catholic Church in America consider themselves true Catholics while ignoring Catholic Doctrine; they move down the line like a diner at a cafeteria, picking and choosing whatever suits them. One more thing, if I may. It makes no sense to have a savior unless there is something to be saved from. Sin is real. It is infectious and deceptive, and it appeals to what we all would want, discarding what God has ordained for us to have. Yes, it does say that one should not judge, lest they themselves receive judgment. But the judgment Scripture talks about is condemnation, not evaluation and judgment. I cannot say that anyone believes that same-sex marriage is condemned, but I can judge that their misinterpretation of the Bible is error, and should be corrected. Hope everyone reading this has a great day, and may God bless each and everyone of you. See Ya!

Robert
I would say that fully ALL of the Universalist Unitarians in my home town, who are going to vote next week, are going to vote for Obama. And I would also say that one of the primary reason they are going to do so is PRECISELY because of his position on abortion.

Based upon your criteria for disallowing a vote, should I be at all concerned at the obvious religious implications of their vote and its affect on the moral and legal temperature of my country?

The Nature of Evil
The nature of evil is obvious and is confined to no particular religious or political philosophy. Its adherents know they are right, that God or History is on their side, and the opinions of others must not be tolerated. This evil, whether in its Christian, Muslim, Marxist, or Facist form has caused more misery for humanity than anything else.

Pec
You left out "Humanist"

Re: Peccator Dubius...
"The nature of evil is obvious and is confined to no particular religious or political philosophy. Its adherents know they are right, that God or History is on their side, and the opinions of others must not be tolerated. This evil, whether in its Christian, Muslim, Marxist, or Facist form has caused more misery for humanity than anything else."


What you are describing is ethnocentrism, not evil...

Every tribe in the world past and present is ethnocentric and that makes them think they are better than all the surrounding tribes, and every thing else you just wrote...

Every tribe thinks God speaks their language...

Evil is any person, group, or idea that opposes the Kingdom of God...

pastore
is like a reformed smoker.

after living the wild life he converted and thinks he is a better Christian than anyone in the world.

your candidate mr. pastore

is divorced and cheated on his wife while still married.

your candidate mr. pastore

believes this

I cannot in good conscience support a tax cut in which so many of the benefits go to the most fortunate among us at the expense of middle-class Americans who need tax relief."--John McCain, May 2001

your candidate mr. pastore

believes in pre-emptive war.
is that a religious value?

to sit in judgement on other Christians because they politically disagree with you is hubris.

Pre emptive War?
Even Liberal so-calleds are expected to be honest. In fact honesty is one of those things that every human being ought to be. Being misinformed and spreading misinformation on purpose is bad.

chuck
What does Jesus say about divorce?

In the gospel of Luke, the teaching of Jesus about divorce is stated briefly and forcefully: "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery" (Luke 16:18).

Jesus calls something adultery here that many people do not want to classify as adultery.

What is adultery? According to the dictionary: Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her spouse.

Many want to understand this as "other than his or her present spouse," whereas Jesus defines it as "other than the first spouse as long as she or he lives"!

This teaching of Jesus contradicts what many people want to believe.

The response of Jesus' own disciples was: "If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry" (Matthew 19:10).

Jesus' definition of divorce is based on the nature of marriage ("the case of the man with his wife") which is different from what many think. Marriage is instituted by God. Marriage is binding for life. Marriage is a covenant. Violating the original marriage covenant is adultery, even after divorce.

Can any Christian...
vote for Obama and have a clear conscience? I'm not one to judge or to say who is and is not a Christian. But based on what I've learned in church and read in the Bible, I would not vote for Obama. His actions are very anti Christian (no I'm not implying he's the anti-Christ). I don't believe him when he says he's a Christian. I don't think any Christian would say things about the Bible like he has as shown in this youtube video brought to our attention by TH:

http://www.townhallmail.com/mlfkisqs_ubbpgdqq.html

Or you can go to youtube and type in "Obama Mocks America's Christian Heritage".

I also don't see a Christian making comments that go something like "holding on to their religion and guns", which I believe he made in reference to the "religious right" voting for Bush and other republicans, particuary conservative ones.

Robert
What you are doing is creating a caricature of a voter with whom you disagree. It's called a "strawman", one whose position has been exaggerated or otherwise mischaracterized in such a way as to be easily refuted.

Let us consider the position of "christianlib", who argues against the candidacy of McCain because he "is divorced and cheated on his wife while still married", a political position solely informed by religious considerations with which he intends to persuade others to adopt as well.

What is the difference between that position and the position of others calling themselves "Christian" who argue against voting for Mr. Obama due to his irreligious stance on abortion?

Reply #155
is intended for the Robert aka Ranger29

joycey
the iraq war was a war of choice.

they did not attack us, we attacked them

bush called it a pre-emptive war because he claimed he had evidence that saddam had wmd.

no wmd were found, we killed 100000 innocent iraqis based either on a lie or a mistake.

take your pick.


Have you spoke to the Iraqi's
We did not kill the Iraqi's the terrorists killed the Iraqi's.

Ranger29
"If we had a Christian heritage then we would not have gone to Iraq and killed people who never attacked us..."

and Panama...

and Grenada...

and the asprin factory in Sudan...

and Vietnam...

and Korea...

and Germany...

I'd rather discuss religion than wars...

But this is obvious, even to me. A totally disabled, one step from being in a place free from normal people...

hey ranger 29
how you doing robert.

been keeping a low profile lately huh,

you are correct, for a Christian to say you can't vote for this guy because he is not Christian enough when the other guy has his own moral flaws is very hypocritical.

there are deeply religious folks supporting both candidates.

as an example, i believe that favoring the wealthy over the poor is a contradiction of the teachings of Jesus Christ and is a moral value.

mccain fails that values test.

McCain sinned.
Yes, McCain is divorced. Is he trying to be a church leader? Reagan was divorced. Duncan Hunter was not divorced. McCain has been out spoken about his sin. He has publicly acknowledged his regret and sorrow. Everyone sins. But he repented. Are you saying he should never be able to work again because he in his youth sinned? Barak was a cocaine head. Is he sorry? I have no idea.

joycey
there were not terrorists in iraq until we invaded.

more importantly, remember shock and awe.

you don't think all our bombing in bagdad killed innocent women and children?

you have stuck your head in the sand.


Ranger 29
Why don't you go back to the original writings of the Founding Fathers and read them. Don't read a book about them read the originals for yourself. It is not a sign of intelligence to tell everyone their stupid one hundred times a day. You don't have to call people names to get your point across.

Joycey
John McShame is in a state of constant sin.

It's, in the eyes of the Lord, like two homosexuals cohabitating. To forgive is to give amnesty.

Ranger29
continued...

and I forgot Bosnia...

I'm not saying we wouldn't have gone in those places...

I'm saying none of those places attacked us...

Christians have always gone to war for just as many reasons as nonChristians...

Ranger
"( I dont care about McCain's divorce that is in my view a private matter...and I didnt care about Clinton "banging" Lewinsky)"

Well, you should, since both give us a window into each man's soul; the moral center of the man and a very credible measure of what we are entrusting our lives and fortunes to.

The fact of the matter is that we cannot separate our religious convictions from our political positions. It is they that inform all of our opinions and ideas, whether we like it or not, for both good and for ill.

Additionally, I agree with your take on the hypocrisy. The sad fact of the matter is though, that we are faced with a dismal choice between two extremely flawed candidates and my anger is more directed at the unelected elites who have foisted both of them on us.

With that I must get to bed; long day tomorrow.

I enjoyed our discussion.


no fingers in ears
Trying to get Obama's minions to listen to truth about his platforms, his relationships with criminals, his allowing himself to be called the Messiah and the Christ hasn't netted me the old fingers in the ears "Lalalalala" (i.e."I don't want to HEEEAR it!") but has instead shown me people who hear it...AND DON'T CARE.

Pastore isn't pointing out flaws, he is pointing out Obama's abject opposites of the scriptures.

Anyone who, for any reason, allows others to publicly refer to him/her as the Messiah or the Christ is someone Christians should be distancing themselves from. God will share His glory with no one. If for some reason someone referred to me, even once, by those titles I would be rebuking that person and requesting they not place me in a spiritually dangerous position! To my knowledge this man has not once told his disciples "Don't call me that! There is only One worth of those titles and it ain't me!" No, he exults in the praise.

God will let him get away with his delusions and pride for a time--but there will be a Godly clue by 4 in his future.

Christians Voters
Should not take the view that socialism is loving and the free market is evil. The free market grows out of our ability to own. If you do not own then how can anyone steal. Thus no reason for that commandment.

Socialism comes out of Secular Humanist doctrine. It is the economic system of those that worship themselves and the government. They look to the government to supply their needs.

Socialism is foolishly inefficient as it ignores or tries and fails to ignore the natural laws of economics. Only fools and goats keep banging their heads into walls.

Christians should not be in company with those that do not learn from their mistakes.

Socialism destroys nations and peoples character and pride.

Ranger29
Well, there is merit in some of your points but my attention was caught by your theology concerning gays going to h*ll.

If anyone goes to h*ll, it's because they do not have faith in Jesus Christ; not because they are gay.

We'll speak again, I hope.

Ranger29...
You sound like someone that has put yourself in an impossible to defend position...

Bombs with a "D" on them are good...

Bombs with a "R" on them are bad...

Partisianship used to end at the water's edge...

My position is, if you no longer can defend your way of life you will lose it...

Ranger29...
Okay, Your position is not entirely parisian...

Try this...

If we fought them here the civil rights lawyers would tie our hands, and ghetto lottery lawyers would make all the victims rich...

Iran didn't like Saddaam...

Kuwait didn't...

Saudi didn't...

Jordan didn't...

Israel didn't...

Syria was possibly the only one in the region that liked this guy...

He was sitting on huge oil reserves that were not being used because he kept getting UN sanctions, that now are already producing more oil than under Saddaam, and soon will have twice as much...

He was finincing terrorists against Israel...

He had a few genocides of hundreds of thousands of his own people...

We needed a place over there, and not over here, where the anti-US terrorists could have the dignity to fight to the death against the US...

As long as they keep preaching it in the Mosques, in all the surrounding countries, we will have to fight them somewhere...

Every report I heard out of Iraq was at least 15:1 terrorists to US soldiers...

Recently I heard the terrorists were now having trouble recruiting new soldiers...

But I'd rather talk about religion than war...

Ranger29...
correction...

15:1 terrorists to US soldiers deaths...

chas: You've been trying to make sense

with a fool. The poor guy has not clue what he's talking about, and is nothing of what he claims.

Besides, ALL of his posts will be pulled first thing "this morning" when the TH staff arrives.


Anne...
There were two I forgot...

We converted all of Iraq to Southern Baptist...

And the suicide bombing instructor that said, Watch closely class, I will only be able to do this once...

Anne...
I'll bring it back to Obama's religion, which is the topic of the column...

Obama isn't a Muslim...

Obama isn't a Christian...

Obama is from a post-Christian tribe that no longer is outraged about morality, but is outraged about 500 years of European and US superpower white dominance of the the rest of the world in terms of power and wealth, and the blacks are the poor, and oppressed victims, and every other victim group they add, Mexicans, Muslims, women, gays, perverts, etc...

The job of government is to bring down every mountain and raise uop every valley...

In scripture that isn't suposed to happen until Jesus returns to reign for a thousand years...

Its post-Christian, meaning they have lost their traditional religion, they think historic Christianity is a part of the rich and powerful oppression of the Europeans that must end...

They preach it in their churches, that God is against the whites because they are rich and powerful, and god is for the blacks because they are poor and oppressed. They also have a secular message in the universities. They are using the government to do it now, because of their Marxist expectation of equality of wealth they spread the wealth from the rich CEOs and Exxon Mobile, to the poor and middle class. Their cultural Marxist expectation of equality of power drives them to end every use of power that was normal and legitimate under Christianity like military, police, borderguards, prisons, executioners, the gun in my truck and the gun protecting my house, the strap, and the back of my hand. They empower every victim group...

They honor victims instead of military heroes...

They honor perverts instead of holy men...

Truth revealed
The dialog brought about by this article now brings forth the evidence to prove the words of Christ, “For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life and only a few find it.


It is abundantly clear that many who call themselves “Christian” are in fact taking the Lord’s name in vain. They are on that broad road leading to destruction.


Fabius
Good post. Correct. Nicely done

All the more reason to vote Obama
Thanks for the info Frank. Now I have more reason to vote Obama. I'll happily vote for someone who may not share my economic and political views, but the fact he doesn't believe in biblical morals goes a long way with me. It is, after all, the bible that promotes such values as animal cruelty, slavery, child abuse, abortion, genocide, and prejudice against race, gender, and sexual orientation. Anybody who is against those is okay in my book.

Hypocrisy
Of all the claims Obama has made about himself, the one that galls me the most and the most dangerous for him is his claim to be a Christian. It is patently false and he will be judged accordingly by the real Messiah for it. How easily the diabolical Illuminati blind the eyes of the naive while the faithful see clearly!

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