Pastore: Dr. Dobson, I’m aware that you also stood before 300,000 or 400,000 people on the Washington Mall and made a pledge. Reaffirm that for us.

Dobson: That was 19 years ago, 1988, and that was at the Washington Monument and I stood there and said—it’s on video tape today—that I will not for the rest of my life cast a single vote in favor of any politician that would kill an innocent baby. I will not do it. And I’ve been fighting for the unborn child for 35 years, Frank, and all of the sudden, because we’re scared of Hillary, we’re going to bring someone into the White House if we can with our votes that will contradict everything we stand for. It’s breathtaking.

Pastore: Dr. Dobson, if Hillary were to win the presidency then that just means that the pro-life movement continues to fight another day, it would rally and mobilize the base, it would also send a message to the conservatives in America that without the pro-life movement, without the evangelical conservative Christian vote, you’re not going to win. If Rudy Giuliani wins it could be the end of the pro-family, pro-life movement because if he were to have four years in the White House the support for the pro-family movement could easily dry up. Why would the Republican Party support anything other than a pro-life candidate? Of course, that might be popular in a general election, but we sacrifice our soul at the altar of political expediency.

Dobson: That’ absolutely true, Frank. Once again there are some assumptions here that are not right. First of all, I don’t believe that Rudy Giuliani can beat Hillary because he will not have the large percentage of the conservative Christian, pro-life movement. There was a Rasmussen poll on Thursday of last week that said 27 percent of the entire G.O.P said they would not vote for a pro-abortion candidate. You cannot win an election losing 27 percent of your base, you just can’t. The other assumption is that it’s going to be 13 months from now the way it is right now. Things change. I’m not at all sure that even Hillary is going to be all that she looks like she is now, even though the press is doing everything to convince us that it’s all over; they have stampeded us into abandoning our principles.

There’s one other dimension to it, which you were alluding to a minute ago, but if that pro-life community holds its nose and votes for a person like this despite the things they have believed, the pro-family and pro-life movement is gone for ever. It’s gone. But if Hillary does win—and that would be awful—but if she does win that same community would mobilize like never before. So there are just a lot of good reasons to not do this.

There is some encouraging evidence that Huckabee is gaining ground and he does believe what we believe and so does Tancredo and so does Duncan Hunter and so does Sam Brownback—we’ve got alternatives. Why do we have to go chasing after someone who is contradictory to what we believe?