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religiouslib writes: May, 29, 2007 12:28

i find it disturbing that you refuse to accept any biblical interpretations that contradict your own personal political philosophy.

……. when someone suggests that as a Christian nation we must help the poor, the suffering or others you immediately scream socialism and argue that this taking money from you at gunpoint.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS.

My religiouslib brethren, Christians are by far the largest givers of charity based on all the studies. So your claim of hypocrisy just doesn’t fly. Better you focus on the left that cries with great compassion for taking your money, not theirs, to care for the poor. Al Gore gave $300 to charity, probably some radical environmental group, while screaming about the need to take others money for his compassion. Bill Klinton gave his underwear, deducting $3/pair crying compassion rather than mercy for tax fraud.

I will gladly accept your exegesis if coherent. I have learned some of my greatest Bible lesson on some very articulate religious websites in debate. Sadly after 60 years and daily Bible work I can no verse or example of collective charity, which is an oxymoron. God made this an individual responsibility that is "cheerfully" given for the purpose of glorifying God, not glorifying a collective state as God.

religiouslib writes: i am against abortion and the death penalty, but most conservatives are for the death penalty and is simply does not make moral or religious sense to be for pro-death as a Christian under any circumstances.

i am quite astounded how this author and conservative Christians will trot out all sorts of biblical verses to justify their stand on the death penalty or immigration or what have you but when someone counters that with opposing views and scripture, the conservative answer is context.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS.

To interpret the Bible out of context means that any verse can mean anything anybody wants it to mean. That is why the Bible is written in context rather than by quotes or authors, or quotes by dates, etc.

I would be very pleased to have you reveal God’s word against the death penalty or for immigration and give us you exegesis understanding we keep getting it wrong.

religiouslib writes: Christians were raised to believe that God speaks through the bible to our heart. i do not need biblical supplements to understand the bible, God makes it clear as day, (except in the case of revelations, which is another long discussion). to say your context is better than mine or that your interpretation is better than mine,well only God can make that decision.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

Why did God say he didn't want Revelations clear as day?

There are some 1.2B Christians, are you telling me that there are 1.2B private interpretations of the Bible and only God will let us know which one was correct when we die? I would prefer that you give me your exegesis on my scriptural error along with your proof so that I may come to the true knowledge you have been blessed with.

religiouslib writes: the bible is our guide in life and Jesus was the role model. when Christian conservatives use the bible to tell other Christians that helping others is purely an individual decision not a national one they are arguing against themselves.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS
The Bible is only a guide if we can read the map. Can you find one verse that supports your claim versus the 20 or so that those conservatives provided to the contrary? Bless us with your exegesis so we can see the error of our interpretations and those of the great commentators and church fathers? For example did he tell the rich man to put all he has in trust and go to city council and get a welfare law passed or tell the Good Samaritan to stop his donkey and call Jericho health servece to send an ambulance etc.

Please guide me on this point. Does you denomination have any type of ministry to help the poor or needy, if maybe just a missionary program. Explain the method that your church elders use to determine what each person's charity tax will be. Furthermore, explain what penalties they impose if you should default on your tax, such as a short prison stay, confiscation by use of the sheriff of your property to fulfill your obligation, etc. I need to see if your church is functioning in the Biblical collective manner you claim it is obligated to do. If not and it is in open rebellion and sin to God's word when are you leaving your sinful church.

religiouslib writes:
the issue of abortion has been taken up on a national issue. the issue of slavery was a national issue (except of course many southern Christians found biblical justification for it).

it appears to this Christian that may conservative Christians hide behind the bible when their politics contradict the bible but than trot out the bible when they feel it useful to back up their politics.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS.

I agree that almost all use the Bible out of context to support their agenda. You claimed above that we should not be restricted by Bible context and condemned those that insist on such context, so my question is why would you condemn those picking verses out of context to support their politics when you claim that is what you also do.

Because the US may take up a national issue does not make it mandatory that God makes it a national issue. Abortion has never been taken up as a national issue in the US nor was it a national issue in the Bible. It was resolved quietly after many years of effort by the giver-ment and the help of Rockefeller advising it with who to stack the courts to approve abortion. I can assure you that if abortion were taken up as a national issue it would never get out of committee, let alone be affirmed.

I’m not so sure God was that concerned about slavery. In fact He insisted that his chosen people spend most of their existence in slavery. I find no verses against it, but that does not mean he endorsed it either, only that he had no problem with it. Would you kindly point out the verse against slavery because I sure find it repugnant and would love to have Biblical authority to support my private feelings against slavery because I have been a slave for 60 years on my master's DC plantation.

religiouslib writes:
Jesus Christ walked with the poor, and hung out with those reviled by his contemporary society. that example has meaning. to not take his example as a whole and to try and parce certain portions of the bible to support things that are simply not based on love is a rejection that all Jesus stood for and preached.

when i read your posts that just reek of hatred because someone is illegal, or poor or taking money from you at gunpoint to support those less fortunate, it is saddening to my heart. you cannot deny the overall message of Jesus Christ with a verse here or a verse there or by claiming something is out of context.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS.

Only in the religiouslib churches is the message one big love feast. The Bible is a two edged sword and the other edge is hell and damnation.

Jesus tended to walk with his apostles and believers. Do you have one example of Jesus telling the civil giver-ment they must feed the poor or telling his followers they should campaign and lobby the giver-ment to feed the poor? Most of the verses I read on this are directed at one individual. He told the rich man, you sell all you have, you give to the poor and follow me. In fact the only charity I can instantly remember was a Jewish custom of leaving the worst parts of the field for the poor to pick over. But this was not a civil mandate but merely an individual option no different than we have the salvation army and they don’t hold a gun on us at Wal-Mart but it is an individual choice for the cheerful giver. Do you think they only collect around the cheerful season of Christmas because the bible says be a cheerful giver?

religiouslib writes:
Jesus brought a message of peace and love of your neighbor as yourself and all the back and forth and quoting of scripture from here and there cannot change that one simple message.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS.

I think all Christians believe in that message we just don’t believe in your private interpretation of that message, because as you say, you like to take it out of context and into your heart. Can you give us the verses and exegesis that support you private interpretation, so we can maybe learn why the other verses to the contrary may be wrong? Or better yet give us you exegesis on our verses that are "going back and forth" so we can have our error revealed.