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Tuesday, February 13, 2007
Frank Gaffney :: Townhall.com Columnist
Truly 'inappropriate' behavior
by Frank Gaffney
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“Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged.”

President Abraham Lincoln

It is, of course, unimaginable that the penalties proposed by one of our most admired presidents for the crime of dividing America in the face of the enemy would be contemplated – let alone applied – today. Still, as the U.S. House of Representatives and Senate engage in interminable debate about resolutions whose effects can only be to “damage morale and undermine the military” while emboldening our enemies, it is time to reflect on what constitutes inappropriate behavior in time of war.

Scarcely anyone seems to consider the conduct of the Congress at the moment inappropriate, to say nothing of a hanging offense. As various sitting Members, whose day jobs increasingly are those of presidential candidates, jockey to outbid one another in their defeatism, the talk is not about whether such behavior is appropriate in time of war – or consistent with the national interest.

Instead, official Washington is obsessing about a peculiar finding last week by the Defense Department’s Inspector General (IG). It concludes that an effort by the Pentagon’s policy organization to critique intelligence assessments prior to the liberation of Iraq involved “inappropriate” behavior.

Specifically, the IG found fault with an effort undertaken after 9/11 by several employees then-working for the Defense Department’s policy bureau. This effort infuriated the Central Intelligence Agency as it questioned whether the CIA and the rest of the U.S. intelligence community were being blinded in their assessment of ties between Saddam Hussein’s Iraq and al Qaeda due to a working assumption that secular Baathists and Islamofascist terrorists would not cooperate against their common foe: Us.

In fact, a wealth of evidence was available to the CIA that indicated a relationship existed between Iraqi agents and al Qaeda operatives, spanning more than a decade. It was this evidence that was compiled by the Defense Department staff members and presented, first to their own leadership and then, as directed, to other senior policy-makers, intelligence officials and legislators. Much of this material was documented in a Pentagon memo supplied to the Senate Intelligence Committee in the Fall of 2003. The data was leaked to Stephen Hayes of the Weekly Standard, who published lengthy excerpts the next year in his book, The Connection: How al Qaeda’s Collaboration with Saddam Hussein Has Endangered America.

What makes the report signed out by Acting DoD Inspector General Thomas Gimble so bizarre is that it determined the Pentagon policy organization’s activity in this area to be both legal and authorized. Neither, according to Mr. Gimble, did that activity mislead Congress.

As it happens, these findings were consistent with two earlier, independent reviews that concerned this matter. One was unanimously approved by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in July 2004. It found that the Defense Department team “played by intelligence community rules” and that “policymakers’ probing questions...actually improved” the CIA’s products. Continued...

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About The Author

Frank Gaffney Jr. is the founder and president of the Center for Security Policy and author of War Footing: 10 Steps America Must Take to Prevail in the War for the Free World .
 
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Lack of Statesmen
Congressmen, and women who continue to rant that they were "misled", by President Bush. Even though they had the same intelligence available to them. That intelligence information has been vetted, it was and is as good as could be gotten.

The yammering is only the usual claptrap, just another way to for Politicians to position themselves to be re-elected, who care who it hurts? Certainly not them.

I might add that the senior Senator from Virginia is not any better than the ones the author named in his column. He was the leading Senator putting forth a "non-binding" resolution which appears to be designed only to help in his re-election bid.

If, on the other hand, he truly believes that a resolution like this is going to somehow help the situation in Iraq, then it is time for him to retire to private life, as senility is already setting in.

There are no Statesmen, only Politicians.

Aiding the enemy is not treason.
Politicians should be free to engage in whatever tactics they deem necessary to sway public opinion toward their side. The whole basis of our way of government is founded in this freedom of political expression, and no politician should be held accountable for any act, no matter how despicable it may appear.

In order to establish a majority in the electorate, Democrats simply have to take up an opposing policy to whatever the Republicans stand for, otherwise people see no reason to change the leadership. In the case of Iraq, Republicans have adopted a pro-war stance, so naturally the Democrats have taken up the anti-war banner. Therefore, in order to discredit their political opponents, Democrats have to ensure that the war becomes unpopular, and the best way to accomplish that is to promote the idea that we are getting beaten, and that the war was a mistake. Democrats ensure we are getting beaten by demoralizing the troops, and by pointing out every error, Democrats help push the theory that the war was a mistake. By adding in the insinuation that it is the United States that is inherently evil while our enemies are noble, the political stage is prime for takeover.

Though it is true that the prestige of the United states will suffer extreme damage from such posturing, the focus is on the political victory that can be achieved, which is by far more important. Since the status of the nation is secondary to holding political power over the masses, it is only right that the anti-war party be allowed to engage in any tactic they wish if it means victory at the polls, even if such activity could be called treasonous.

Based on these facts, it is acceptable that the Democratic Party align themselves with the hardcore enemies of our nation. By rallying to the defence of those that threaten us the most, those that have vowed our very destruction, and those that are actively arming the elements that are killing our troops, Democrats are only doing what is politically necessary for them to gain power. Sometimes national security and the slaughter of our troops is necessary if it means discrediting the opposition.

In elections and political posturing there is no such thing as treasonous talk or actions. Even if the Democrats were to openly arm the terrorists in an effort to have out troops destroyed in the field of battle, such an action would just done out of a desire for victory at the polls, and is therefore aceptable. Each massacre of our soldiers helps bring voters to the side of the anti-war advocates, and that means obtaining political power is that much closer. Thus, there is no treason when politics is involved, and certainly no behavior is "inappropriate"..

Mr. Gaffney
There are still some of us left out here in the heartland who do view these politicians as treasonous, not just "inappropriate".

Loyal Democrat
Your satire tonight is chilling in its' truth.

President Lincoln
...the statesman would be ashamed of America and its politicians today.

The worn out cliches such as "take back our country", "transform our country", "make a difference", blah blah blah, mean only one thing, personal power. That's all they are interested in.


CC
Your so right! Peloski is calling the mantras now.And every Demo/Lib repeats them without question. The one you constantly hear is "A new direction." But they never tell the truth about what that direction is. Which of course is Socialism.

Gaffney
Didn't have to go beyond your first quote: it's true--it is time for blow back!!!

Goshawk
You're absolutely correct. I forgot that over-used one: "a new direction", and like you, I hate the direction it's taking us.





What we need is a new law that is
binding on congress that would force them to conduct all of their "war" and "foreign policy" debates behind closed doors and keep it secret until the war is over. Anyone who violates this would be jailed.

How Tyranny Came to America

What do you call someone...
That promotes legislation that attempts to effectively nullify the vast majority of the Bill of Rights?

LD
Loyal Democrat hits it,spot on. That Any Democrat cannot see the absolute absurdity of the truth as he puts it really is in lala land.

Statesman v. Politician
Pappy Michael is correct there are no statesmen left, only politicians. Based on the criteria that a politician looks to the next election and a statesman looks to the next generation.

The frightening condition of this is apparent in the current apostasy of the left. That combined with the personal character assassination of true statesman like Douglas Feith contributes to the reduction of good people to accept invitations to serve our government. Leaving us with the narcissistic, self-absorbed, self-indulgent politicians we have today.

I swear, I have stepped in water puddles that are deeper than Carl Levin, Jay Rockefeller, Ted Kennedy, ad nauseam.

Vic

What we need is a new law is a good idea that
would never work in THE LAND OF LEAKS THAT IS
Washington DC. There would be more leaks than
the ones in a tire that had run over a pile of
roofing tacks.

Follow Lincoln's Advice
What's wrong with following President Lincoln's advice today? It would bring home to people how bad some Congressman and Senators have been.

Lincoln's comment
How true, I hope Obama sees it since he seems to think he's Abe reincarnated.

OxyMORON
As a native of West (By God!) Virginia who has suffered through "speeches" by Jay Rockefeller (including a 20 minute ramble during my graduation from med school at WVU), I can assure all of you that any mention of his name and "intelligence" in the same sentence is an oxymoron. That man is dumb. Dumb with a capital "DUMB". Not dumb as in "mute: or "unable to speak," but dumb as in "not smart," or "unintelligent," or, more appropriately, "possessing the IQ of a mentally retarded post." It just goes to show how desparate the dhimmi-cRATS are. What a pair my home state has:

Sen. John D(umb). Rockefeller, IV (D-umb)
&
Sen(ile). Robert C. Byrd(brain) (D-mented)

The best defence is a good offence
The best defence is a good offence, particularly if there is no defence. Bush and his staff manipulated and lied about intellegence to make a case for invading Iraq. This is so plainly true that even personal friends of Feith don't bother to deny it.

Instead they whine that criticizing the President during "wartime" is treason. Nevermind that criticizing the President during wartime is a tradition that dates back to George Washington's time (OK, he was yet to be President). And the present "war" occupies just a fraction of our military and is not important enough to raise taxes over.

I think manipulating intel to get the United States into a situation the President is unwilling to win is at least as bad for America.

lgm
The President is always fair game for criticism. The distinction is, I think, that one should have valid facts at one's disposal before pursuing such a course, rather than creating accusations out of whole cloth as the Democrat Critic Choir seems to have done. The baseless accusations of President Bush manipulating intelligence information is a classic example, since the information he reported was the same as your heroes Algore and Velcrofly Willie, et al, had reported. Selah.

Gaffney's succinct appraisal
The behavior of the politicians looking to excuse or justify themselves is unworthy of statesmen. Remembering the hysteria of those who questioned why dots were not connected and what the administration knew and when he(Bush) knew it prior to the attack on 9/11, any thinking person would champion the efforts of the DOD to confirm or challenge intelligence information. What better oversight could one ask for?

I question the ineptness of Senators on special committees who apparently do not take the time to read or review information given to them at the time when decisiveness is called for. Instead, they operate from hindsight and weasel reasoning to run with the herd when political opportunism presents itself. Their behavior is like that of middle-school children (with bigger vocabularies)who try to shed responsibility for their decisions.

Johnnie Edwards
said he had doubts about voting to give the president the power to take us to war in Iraq, but after talking with people of the Clinton administration who verified the accuracy of the intelligence voted yes. Hillary supported the intelligence and the war until she realized the media really had turned so many Americans against the war. Now she has nothing good to say of our troops efforts since it appears to her that votes will swing anti war. What a bunch of pandering politicians--their power grab is so much more important than the security of our country. Sen. Lieberman seems to be the only Democrat that puts this nation's wellbeing first.

ode to a flip-flop
think back to the leaked memo from the then ranking democrat of the Senate Intel Committee, Jay Rockefeller in the run-up to the '04 presidential election. it exposed the plan (thank you Sean Hannity!) to use any information and means to discredit a sitting wartime president to enhance their white house bid. i submit to you that this effort was not abandoned by the democrat/terrorcrat party with john kerry's failed attempt but, on the contrary, was redoubled for the '06/'08 campaigns.

the democrats/terrorcrats have learned from the mistakes of '04 all to well. (fake nat. guard documents, sandy berger's elastic waistband, etc.) Rush Limbaugh was point-on couple of weeks ago when he stated there is no up-side to a positive outcome in the war against islamic fascism/iraqi theater for the democrats/terrorcrats. (or any other Bush policy, foreign or domestic) it does not enhance their '08 chances if the bush's new strategy works. therefore, it must not work! viva le flip-flop!!! before new strategy, not enough troops! after....too many troops!!

remember how democrats twisted and turned to avoid being painted as "cut-and-runners" before the '06 election?? now they look like schoolboys on the playground comparing their manhoods in their efforts to out cut-and-run each other. 'my cut-and-run plan's bigger than yours.' 'no, mine's bigger!' the clowns are trying to out-flip flop each other!!

and let's be honest. the president's success in preventing a post-9/11 domestic attack has provided a safehaven for these traitorous bastards to operate. and the idiotic actions of the duke cunningham's and tom foley's have only served to fertilize the ground the democrat/terrorcrat party now tills. one could legitimately argue that had there been two or three post-9/11 disasters the public would be solidly behind the president and the war, whatever theater. and that's where this war will be won or lost, the court of public opinion. they can't win on the battlefield. only in the hearts and minds of the american people. (ala vietnam!) and the democrats AND evil-doers know it!

what's really ironic to me is the under-current theory by the far-left that this administration's policy, whether it be the war on islamic fascism, the economy, global warming, or whatever, (see john edward's bloggers) is an effort by christians in the republican party and the administration to enable and advance the biblical prophecy of armageddon. funny, maybe it's just me, but i can't think of a faster way to facilitate "armageddon" than to allow the lethal triumvate of syria, iran and al quaida to have the base and funding that a u. s. pullout of iraq would provide.

in the meantime, i'm working on a bumper sticker. it pictures a nuclear mushroom cloud accompanied by these words, "don't blame me. i voted straight republican!"

Pat in NC
Yeah, I can throw up here quotes by so many dems who stated Saddam had WMD and we should do something about it. It doesn't matter though because the left will just keep repeating the same lies over and over. Unfortunately these lies seem to have worked with so many people. I guess we conservatives need to start going on the offense and hitting back that the left just LIES.

finebammer
What a fine comment you posted.
And, the dimmorats managed to fool a lot of people by putting up so called "blue dog" dems in 2006 and we all knew that these guys would have no say, no power once in office under Pelosivich, if they were indeed conservative to begin with.
The dims have done every stinking, sneaky, under handed thing possible to get themselves back in power. It should be obvious to all by now that that is all they care about, not this country, not our safety, not our troops, not winning the war. They stand for nothing other than socialism.

Vic:
You suggested a law that would force Congress to discuss foreign policy in secrecy. You seem to think that Americans need to be kept in the dark or they might make the wrong decisions.
This is the antithesis of a Democracy.

Gregdn
What do you want to do, run the war yourself? You aren't the CIC. You don't need to know everything. During war time there have always been things kept secret.

The new law
Vic:
What I would like to see is that current laws regarding leaks are enforced. If a secret, top secret, or even confidential piece of data comes out of a representative's or senator's office, then the person that leaked that information is charged with treason.
In the military, leaking of information is punishable under the UCMJ which in many cases parallels civilian law. Apply these laws in just a few instances and the leaks will virtually dry up from the cascade that is occurring now.

finebammer
I'm one that likes to win the wars we start. I did not, nor do I still, agree with us backing out of VietNam.

However, this is a quite different situation. For us to win the war we all thought we were fighting, don't we actually have to go after those RESPONSIBLE for 9-11? Doesn't appear that we have any intention to do that at this time.

So, why exactly did we go to Iraq? WMD's? Nope. Osama? Nope? Spreading Democracy? Give me a break. Do you really believe this is the reason. If you or anyone does... please show where in the Constitution it provides the federal government the right to use our tax dollars to "spread democracy"?

BTW, ever read the following...
Creating a new Middle East, compliments of the Neocons and the socialist globalist traitors to our country.

Ending the neoconservative nightmare
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=746312

A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm (developed in 1996)
http://www.iasps.org/strat1.htm

or

Enter the neocon, Bill Kristol’s, Project for a New American Century’s plan, “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” (released September, 2000), also developed by a bunch of neocons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf


Do not misrepresent Lincoln / Iraq
Yes, Lincoln said that, but I doubt he
believed it. If he did he could have
shut down the Democratic Party in 1864.

So, I believe we can say that the Bush
administration is taking a cue from Lincoln
in complaining about what is going on, but
not doing anything about it. That is as
it should be.


I would argue that the War in Iraq has been
"behavior that results in our being even less equipped to deal with such threats than we were before this phase of the War for the Free World began on 9/11." Since a trillion dollars (by
2009) would have gone a long way in helping
fight the war on terror (or paying down the
deficit). But I do not believe our Executive
or those Congressional members who gave
him approval to wage war should be hanged
for the offense.

Kimbat
"needed to protect those kids "

They are not "kids". They are adult men and women.
Try not to insult them when you speak about them.

Peppermint
The left must hold fast to their portrayal of the brave men and women fighting for our freedom as poor uneducated children because without that image their arguments fall to pieces.

Historically, we are treating Congress
as saints, when they would have been jailed in other wars. However, if we jailed all in Congress who are experts in subversion of the military mission, you could not get a quorum to vote for anything. The real problem is that the average attention of the liberal is from sound bite to sound bite, and they have not gone to visit the hole in NY that used to be two towers. The history of Congressional dissent is that Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, are two liberals who made a name for themselves with the socialist cognoscenti for trashing a war while it is underway. This is a political behavior which the Nation now condones.

I find it interesting that deep thinkers like "liberalgoodman" think that raising taxes is the sign that we are at war. His line is that until we raise his taxes, we are not at war. Why don't you bunch of liberals who think your taxes are too low take the difference between Clinton taxes and your taxes now and send them in to the Government? Put your money where your mouth is.

What the liberals will not admit is that taxes were never reduced after WWII to where they were before the war, and that the nation is still paying WWII taxes to fund the "War on Poverty" and other dogoodisms which would be an abject failure if it weren't for the money that charities spend to do the job right. The war on poverty is the war on which we should instead admit defeat, not the one in Iraq.

Swampfox
Yes, you're right. It always amazes me that the left will make this argument about our troops (kids) going to their unnecessary deaths, but you never hear a peep about all the really needless deaths through abortion of real "kids", completely helpless and defenseless.

not so fast......
you might be wise to curb your enthusiasm for my post.

i personally disagree with both the democrat/terrorcrat party AND the president on our iraq policy. i think we have NO BUSINESS pulling out of iraq, EVER! in my mind, iraq should become a u. s. territory. i like to think of it as my puerto iraq plan!

think on this. we have troops in germany, italy, japan, s. korea. been there for years, against the wishes of many in those countries. where does the united states have more national interest in the world than the middle east?? easy answer. nowhere. it's not even close. why?? again, easy answer.

if there's any one thing i agree with the left-wing whakos on (i'm almost about to wretch!) it's why we're in iraq. it's about the oil, stupid! of all the places in the world to choose to attack islamic fascism, why iraq? wow. this is really too easy! (1.) iraq is strategically placed right between two of the biggest state sponsors of terrorism in the world, syria and iran. (2.) we can't allow them to control the most fertile oil fields in the world to fund their terrorist activities and (3.) we need the damn oil here.

now here's where it really gets good. why do we need foreign oil? because of the, again, traitorous dealings of the far left. the energy policy of the democrats can be basically summed up with this phrase: "NIMBY, not in my backyard!" there was a time in our history we were proud of our natural resources and for good reason. it allowed us to have the independence to build our great nation. but gradually, under the guise of "conservation" the left wing whakos have poisoned the well with their anti-american philosophies. we can't research, can't drill, can't build, can't refine, can't do anything that might advance american energy independence at home. why have we had the black/brown-outs of the past 40 or so years?? because we have failed to upgrade our production. why? what is the cleanest most efficient energy source out there? nuclear. but we all know how the left wing has demonized atomic energy. we have vast KNOWN oil and gas resources of the coasts of eastern florida and california. why is it we have no problem using the resources from the central gulf coast (alabama, mississippi, louisiana)?? what is the opposition to new drilling in this areas? the leftist elites don't want to sit on the patios of their coastal vacation villas and see......gasp, oil and gas derricks. (personally, when i vacation on the coast, i choose to and spend my money in an area where i CAN see those derricks. i'm PROUD of them. to me they represent american independence and can-do) hell, we can't drill in a snow-covered desert in alaska due to the back-stabbing efforts of the left wing environmental whako democrat/terrorcrat party. (and where it REALLY gets deep is the same idiots who are trying to shove this "global warming" claptrap down our throats now are the same ones who've made such a historical mess of the yosemite national park conservation policy. 'kill all the wolves' 'no, no, bring them back.' 'feed the grizzlies garbage.' ok, they're hooked on garbage, we must cut them off.' 'wow, those bears are attacking people now for their garbage. KILL THEM!!!' 'smokey bear sez: only you can burn the woods. put it out now!' ok. ok. let the damn thing burn.' (the roof! the roof! the roof is on fireya! we don't need the wata let the m*****f***** burn!!!) now these same idiots tell you your suv is gonna kill the planet!

so yeah, we're there for the oil. and if loving oil is wrong, i don't wanna be right!

my iraq policy? set up to stay and damn what iran, syria, russia and the democrats think!

radio station = press(sorrylongcutpaste)
I would like to say that I hope freedom
of the press should not belong to only
those who can afford a newspaper, tv station,
or radio station.

Anyways, Clearchannel denies banning the Chicks:

"In reality, and in response to forceful and overwhelming demands from local listeners, some Clear Channel radio stations increased airplay of the group's music in the weeks after Natalie Maines made her comments; other Clear Channel radio stations temporarily suspended airplay.

In fact, according to Mediabase's Airplay Monitor service, Clear Channel Radio played Dixie Chicks songs more often - a full 10,069 times - than any other major radio broadcaster in the two weeks following the statement by Natalie Maines."
http://www.clearchannel.com/Corporate/PressRelease.aspx?PressReleaseID=1167&p=hidden


But other stations did:

"In March of 2003, Natalie Maines, the lead singer of the Dixie Chicks said to an English concert audience, "Just so you know, we're ashamed the President of the United States is from Texas," upsetting many music fans and politicians in the United States. Thinking the Dixie Chicks were now a pariah and thus unmarketable, all of the country music stations owned by 2 Atlanta-based companies, Cumulus Media and Cox Radio were told to stop playing their music. There is speculation that Clear Channel also may have directed their stations to do so, but the company states this was solely the work of local station managers, DJs, and angry fans. Some critics of Clear Channel, including the editors of Rock and Rap Confidential, say otherwise, claiming that Clear Channel executives, in a bid to gain support for various policies they were pushing in Washington, instigated the boycott among its country music stations to send a message to other musicians that criticizing President George Bush's administration could hurt their careers through reduced airplay, etc. Madonna had also faced similar problems when she released her anti-Iraq war album, American Life, and faced reduced radio airplay throughout the release of her album in 2003." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_Channel_Communications

Thus to be clear, when we are dealing with
media those who represent a popular interest
need a chance to get their word out.
The media have commercial as well as Constitutional obligations.

oops!
Ignore previous post!
Wrong post for wrong article.
Had two TH articles open at same time.
I will be more careful in the future.
Accept my apologies.

Secrecy is provided for ...
in the constitution. In the part that directs congress to publish its proceedings, there's an exception for military matters that should be keep secret. The constitution is not a suicide pact.

Irshad Manji
who wrote "The Trouble With Islam" was on Glenn Beck the other night for an interview. Her take was why don't we install a democratic government in Iraq?
Why don't we just install the person who would lead the Iraqis to a real democracy. I think her view point on this was interesting.

She is one of the few Muslims who has taken it upon herself to speak out about radical Islam. She receives death threats for doing so and requires special security measures at her residence.

She believes Bush did the right thing in taking Saddam out but now he needs to set up a real democracy there because as she says, "why wouldn't we want them to have what we have here"?

liberalgoodman
In 1998 it was a democratic president who signed the law passed by the congress to remove the leadership in Iraq. Not too long after our congress abrogated it's responsibility to Declare War under the constitution and voted to "allow" president to act under the War Powers Act. All the data I have read, even Richard Clarkes books, give me a feeling the congress was well informed of ALL the available intelligence. I have a dislike of Faeth, Armitage, Wolfowicz and Perle, the civilian advisors I think are most responsible for this mess but the fact remains Congress put us there,now it wants to "bug out". Been there, done that (VietNam 64-65, 66-67). Our troops dont need the BS they hearing from our so-called leaders.

Kimberly
Your concern is noted and appreciated, but the "missing" armor is actually a lack of the improved armor that has recently been created. The Humvees still have the up-armor configured into them, but with the evolution of the latest shaped charge IED, the standard M1114 vehicle is being compromised with such hits. The updated armor is being rapidly applied, but admittedly not all Humvees have been so equipped.

The reality is that the terrorist are continuously adapting their tactics and weapons, and we have to respond in kind. They have made a change, and we are reacting to it, but we are compelled to remain in the field with what is termed outdated armor until all adaptions can be made. We cannot withdraw all of our vehicles from the streets every time a new weapon is encountered, rather we must continue to fight in spite of the increased risks. And by continuing to fight under such conditions, you become technically correct in your assertion that troops are being exposed to danger due to a lack of the latest generation in armor, but such modifications take time to complete 100%.

Though there is this flaw in your analysis, your concern is appreciated. Such talk keeps the supply line active, and sometimes it needs a kick in the pants. Such as was the case back in December 2004 when Rumsfield was called out for the lack of up-armored M1114's. Due to that lone soldiers open complaint, the supply effort was intensified. That soldier ended up likely saving my life some seven months later when my up-armored Humvee was destoyed by an IED. If I had been in the old M1025 version, my wife would have collected on my SGLI. So keep on giving them hell.

And no problem with the "kids" reference. I am in my fourth decade, whereas most of my fellow fighters are in their mid 20's. Kids to me, but good soldiers. And they tease me about my senior citizen status, and I tease them about diapers. So we're cool.

And another one...
Apparently feeling the need to tow the party line by demeaning our troops and their mission, Barak Obama claimed that the lives of the soldiers lost in Iraq were "wasted," implying that our poor, uneducated, children-based militia is fighting for absolutely no cause. Thanks Barak!

truth?
come on, admit it.
the reason most people here seem to know everything about what's going on over here is you really lack the courage to admit that you really have no clue.
you just buy the party line or believe whatever the media tells you
it's not about oil, WMD's were part of it.
it's about common decency, and the way we treat our fellow humans.
you may think going to Iraq was a mistake,
because saddams men didn't kick down YOUR door and take away your father or brother never to be seen again.
YOUR childrens teachers aren't being beheaded in front of their students.
YOUR children aren't being killed in minefields in Afghanistan.
YOUR wife wasn't executed for the CRIME of knowing how to read.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIVE HERE. SO YOU PRETEND THAT IT'S NONE OF YOUR CONCERN.
you live a fat, happy, safe life in the good ole U.S.A, so you have no concept of what real poverty is.
you cant fathom what it feels like to have to live in REAL fear.
i challange everyone posting here to get on a plane, come over here to afghanistan, or iraq, and see for yourself before you presume to know all the answers.

Amazing
They determine that this administration 'inappropriately' changed the intelligence to get us to go to war.

The author and many of you readers decide that selling us on a war with inaccurate information as well all can see it was now, is fine. It is those who are suggesting this all along that did something wrong.

Your completely nuts! This is our Datonka. Bush, Fiend, Cheney, and the rest that lied us in to this war owe us 3000+ american lives, trillion dollars and 100,000 Iraqi lives. They should be jailed or worse. Yet instead, because of partisan politics you guys attack those who are calling these immoral liars out. Simply unbelievable. Your definition of treason needs correction, you have it completely backwards and if I'm wrong, show me the connection, show me the weapons of mass destruction, show us the way out.... you can't, you loose.

Tom
Can you provide sources for your "facts" please?

And considering that the definition of treason is "disloyalty to one's government" I believe it is, in fact, your definition of treason that needs correction.

And to clarify, at least 500 WMD were have been found in Iraq, in direct violation of UN restrictions after the first gulf war. Democrats have conveniently narrowed their definition of WMD to include only nuclear weapons, but the truth is WMD, mainly in the form of chemical weaponry, have been found.

And not having a clear plan on the way out of an unpredictable war is, under no definition of the word, treason.

LD, good post!
It takes real talent to be able to write like that. Obviously, you're more than a retiree whiling away the hours on-line.

What's your real bio?

Peppermint's mistake
Pep,
ya read the Kimbat post again. Why did you even bother, dear?

Tom
Literacy is obviously not your forte, whereas applying 20-20 hindsight is.

There was an across the aisle consensus that approved of the action in Iraq, all based on information that was deemed reliable. Now that things aren't running like clockwork, people like you are quick to jump up and claim to have been misled, otherwise your perfect mental facilities would not have agreed to the operation. You are so desperate to be on the right side that you will make allegations about dishonesty and so forth. Anything to show that you were tricked, and that you knew better than anyone else, but we all lied and deceived you.

And as for WMD's go dig up any of the tens of thousands of Kurds that were gassed by Saddam and ask them about their particular cause of death. The evidence linking Saddam to the pursuit of nuclear material and the al-Qaeda training camps within his borders is strong, but if you refuse to acknowledge anything that opposes your vision, then there is no use in trying to discuss matters with you. People like you still fear falling of the edge in a sailing venture because no matter what the evidence, you know in your heart that the world is flat.


"Statesmen not politicians"
I wept over the beauty of that sentiment. Yes! Dignity, integrity, national pride.

Statesmen, Step up. We know you are out there -- We NEED you! Is there perhaps someone here at TH? Mike Adams? Thomas Sowell? Your country is calling!

Tom
The actual reason for us returning to hostilities in Iraq in 2003 was the violations of the 1991 ceasefire accords between the Desert Storm coalition and Saddam's government. Under those accords, once he broke their terms (dozens of times during the first Hitlery! administration), we were OBLIGED to return and remove him from power.

As for WMDs...the Marines have found multiple caches of chemical artillery shells loaded with mustard gas, VX gas, and sarin. Unfortunately, the NY Times and CNN don't think that's newsworthy.

I was embarrassed
for poor Hillary when she had to resort to an old country music standard "He done me wrong . . .". Wah, wah, wah.

crawfish
the wmd you site was pre-1991 and was used in the iran-iraq war and pentagon experts said it was too degraded to be used.

this is what happens when you only expose yourself to the biased conservative media.

Perspective
I didn't serve in either of the Iraq conflicts, so I can't speak to the way those guys feel. But I was in earlier conflicts and can tell you that whining and complaining can be demoralizing. I never liked to be spit upon or called 'baby-killer' either.

I have absolutely no problem with people criticizing the Administration or Congress for their policies, strategies and tactics. However, I would say, if you're smart enough to know that Bush is a liar, or that he failed, you're certainly smart enough to give us all an idea of how you would resolve the current situation.

Some of us go to bed every night with images of abject horror. I don't want anybody else's kid to sleep with that the rest of their life. So do us a favor, tell us how we can win this war, protect the people we went there to protect, and demonstrate that we, as a nation, are committed to winning this war.

sawgunner
you are the one who sees the world flat.

the alquida training camps were in the kurdish north and had no contact with saddam.

as far as any other connection president bush has said there was no connection but i guess you think he is a liar right?

religiouslib
What part of "destroy all chemical and biological weapons" is incomprehensible to you?

Here is what is inappropriate
Last week, I went back to read the original Congressional resolution authorizing military force against Iraq, passed in October 2002. Nowhere in there does it say anything about using U.S. military force to put down a civil war between Shi'a and Sunni, or to force democratic structures on a recalcitrant fundamentalist Muslim population. True, it does cross-reference the "Iraq Liberation Act" (1998), but that Act referred to using U.S. humanitarian assistance to help speed the transition to democratic rule in Iraq, not military force.

Hence, as soon as Bush morphed our military mission from the original stated goals of removing Saddam's Iraq as a regional threat to democracy-building, he started operating without Congressional authorization. Even more so when he began to use U.S. military force to attempt to stop the Sunni and Shi'a from killing each other.

The Congressional war resolution was not a blank check for Bush to use military force for any purpose whatsoever in the Iraq region--it was quite specific as to what needed doing. And what it said needed to be done, was already done, when Saddam was captured and his sons were killed.

So any use of U.S. military force to put down ethnic violence between Shi'a and Sunni is inappropriate. We should be confining our military operations to eliminating just those extremists who plan to target the U.S. Otherwise, Bush should ask Congress for specific new authorization for this entirely new mission.

What is tragic about this whole affair is that there has not been a serious challenge to Bush's Iraq War policy from the right. We've been given a choice between the Democrats' "cut and run" and Bush's democracy-building venture, neither of which I believe is going to work out.

religiouslib
Most of our ICBMs are pre-1991 as well.

Actually, the first I heard of them came from a Marine I used to work with. He knew one of the guys who found the cache. Come to think of it, I believe GunnyG knows someone who was associated with that find as well.

If he had gotten rid of all his WMDs, why did he deny access to the sites for the inspectors?

Anyway, the breaking of the terms of the ceasefire was enough to return to a state of war, and should have been done during the first Hitlery! administration.

crawfish
rick santorum tried to say the same things last year about the pre-1991 weapons and was shot down by both the white house and the pentagon.

it is simply not credible. i mean if it was would not cheney and bush cited it long ago.
they don't even think it is credible.

the reason saddam didn't want to admit he had no weapons was to keep iran at bay.
finally as far as breaking the treaty, bush knew he had broken the treaty before he took office, if that was his reasoning why did he not say he was going to attack iraq during the 2000 campaign.

For ctyaeger:
You ask: "I would say, if you're smart enough to know that Bush is a liar, or that he failed, you're certainly smart enough to give us all an idea of how you would resolve the current situation."

For starters, I suggest you read articles by Diana West (right here on townhall.com), or Robert Spencer (on jihadwatch.org)

There are a number of fruitful avenues we could pursue--once we abandoned Bush's dream of creating a pluralistic democracy in Iraq as some kind of "role model" for the entire Muslim world. (As if a Shiite-dominated Iraq, however "democratic," could ever serve as a "role model" for Sunni nations elsewhere.)

Freed from Bush's fantasy, we could aggressively go after true enemies of America, and not worry about how it will play in Sadr City or in Maliki's government. Furthermore, we could exploit, rather than attempt to suppress, the schism between Shi'a and Sunni, to weaken both. And most importantly, the fact that the Shi'a and Sunni might still be more interested in killing each other than in working together to build a democracy, would no longer be viewed as a failure of U.S. policy--because it would no longer be one of our goals anyway.

What choice of battlefield?
America is in this war for the duration whether or not it pleases the Communists who keep trying to sneak into power in America.
Libs seem incapable of understanding the size and scope of the IsmamoNazi war. This war is being waged Worldwide, in all parts of Europe, asia and Africa. Who or how the war started is lost in several centuries of history. Attempts to drag America into this war also date back many decades.
America was formally dragged into this war when Carter showed a yellow streak and failed to respond to the Iran Embassy attack. The al-Qaeda attack on 9/11 forced America to fight back or be slaughtered like sheep. Blame at this date is irrelevant. Libs who have dramatized this war for politics and delude themselves about gaining power if Republicans loose a war can't seem to grasp the fact that America will become part of a Caliphate if we loose this war and nearly all male Americans will be punished and executed for denying Allah. Iraq is an important battlefield in the WOT. A retreat from Iraq would betray millions of trusting allies and leave them to be tortured and slaughtered.It would surrender control of Iraqi oil to Iran and greatly enhance our enemy's power. al-Qaeda would be given an entire nation to DRAFT, equip and train terrorists using Petro Dollars. The land would eventually need to be retaken at a higher cost in life because none would dare be our Ally after we betrayed all who trusted us before.
While you Libs plan surrender please be aware IslamoNazis intend to conquer in the Biblical sense using the Koran.
Have you noticed whenever the body of anyone captured alive by IslamoNazis is found there is evidence of extensive torture? Information is not the object and nothing but death will end it . The true believer thinks he will be rewarded with pleasures in Paradise for every pain he inflicts on an Infidel. Civilians often purchase Infidel captives so they can punish and kill them to obtain rewards in Heaven. Anyone who does not own a firearm would be easy to capture alive.This war won't end in Iraq. It will take several decades more to end this war. What can end in Iraq is any trust of National Security in the hands of Democrats.
They have two years and if they fail the Democrat Party is HISTORY and Communists will need to find a new front group to cower behind.

religiouslib
Try re-writing your statement somewhere above a 1st grade level: it didn't make a whole lot of sense.

Swampfox,
You forgot to mention that although no nukes were found, nobody, expected to find any because nobody believed Iraq had any -- yet. What he had was a nuke program.

What is strange is that the criticism continues that no such program was found. Plans and diagrams of a nuke were accidentally posted on the internet when some Iraqi documents were posted prior to being translated.

The mantra of no-WMD continues despite massive stockpiles of chemical weapons (oops, I'm sorry -- pesticides) in underground bunkers next to military installations, tons of yellowcake uranium, a small amount of enriched uranium, and plans for nuclear weapons accidentally posted on the internet.

What's the required standard of proof for WMD? A mushroom cloud?

Democrats use the "no WMD" lie combined with the "Bush Lied" lie to justify reversing their vote on whether to invade Iraq. Here's a news flash for Democrats. You don't vote for a war to get elected and then, "see how it goes."

myopine
why are you so scared of a few stone age clerics?
we heard similiar doomsday predictions about vietnam and now bush has just visited there as a friend.

israel has been fighting this war for 40 years and has not had to be as extremist as yourself.

despite all your bluster you obvioulsly don't uderstand that of which you speak. iraqis will not and would not give up their land to iran or al-queida.

the conflict goes back thousands of years but you seem to not understand that.

fear fear fear that is all you have to offer.

the only thing to fear is fear itself.

sawgunner
then your reading level must be lower than that because i presented facts (albeit ones you don't like) and your response is not to respond.

i wonder why?


President bush has said on numerous occaisions there was no connection between saddam and 9/11 and saddam and al-queida. that is a fact.

the al-queida training camp was in the north and in the no-fly zone and was a small area that was allowed by the kurds. saddam had nothing to do with it. that is a fact.

why are you so fearful of the truth?

steveo
what is interesting to me is that you must come to the conclusion that president bush and the pentagon are all liars because they do not and have not supported one iota of your strange and convoluted claims.

moondoggy
You make a very moving point, but why Iraq? There are several places where such heinous activities are happening. Why Iraq and why now?

Only in politics...
...could a lack of knowledge about a subject under ones scrutiny and jurisdiction be used as a justifiable defense for poor performance of duty. If I were to tell my boss "Gee, I didn't KNOW the client was thinking X..." or "was doing X.." or "was planning X..." I would be fired immediately. It is my job to know and there is no one - including those who gather business intelligence for me - on whom to drop the blame when I fail to anticipate a clients moves. We give this clown show a pass when we should be accepting "I didn't know..." as the opening statement of everyone of their resignations. Do we need MORE proof of how ineffective they are than that provided by their own deceitful, gutless, butt-covering lips? I don't - but that's just me.

Phoney apology
Just heard on Fox that Obama apologized for saying our fallen soldiers lives were "wasted" in Iraq, and that it was a "slip of the tongue".

No, it wasn't. He meant what he said until the fallout started, then did the usual thing politicians do, started backpedaling to try and unring the bell.

religiouslib
You'll have to pardon my limited abilities. I am used to reading sentences with commas, punctuation, cohesive thought patterns, and so forth.

I guess we can just file you under the category of "everyone lied", and the poor terrorists are the true victims. And how is the work coming along on your "Bush set off the charges that leveled the World Trade Center" web site? Maybe next election we can get a candidate that has the qualities you like in a president, such as Ahmadinejad. Finally, I wonder how smug you would be if Saddam had indeed managed to get a dirty bomb into your neighborhood? I'll bet your radiation infected body would be demanding to know why we didn't make Saddam abide by the UN resolutions. Hindsight is wonderful, it lets morons think they knew better than everyone else.

religiouslib
You rave like some kind of madman!
Are you an Imam or something?
Or just some Leftist enemy collaborator?
You profess to know exactly how the Iraqi mind works and their exact defense against IslamoNazis.

When you ridicule my words you must confine yourself to my words. When you paraphrase you are ridiculing your own words, sort of like playing with yourself or verbally masturbating.
You do not need to address anyone here at TH to do that. Just go over in the corner and do it.

"Fear a few stone age clerics?"
Anyone who does not fear Radical Islam IS crazy.

Go see
...more on the phoney apology at Michelle Malkin's blog.

Whats the author's point?
I can't get to the author's point. Is he saying these Congressmen are bad and the disinfect of sunlight be cast on their activities, or is he recommending that disputes about the war not be permitted? I'm not really getting what he's asking for.

WWII Leaders
During WWII, two leaders continually overrode their generals and dictated tactics and strategy to their military leaders. These same wartime leaders were dictators and had no limits on their power. Those leaders were Hitler and Stalin. Before you all start screaming I am calling Bush either Hitler or Stalin I AM NOT but I am saying that no limits on power and absolute lock step support do not produce victory. For those of you who watch/listen to rightwing media, Hitler lost the war and Stalin's actions produced vastly increased causalities and land loss.

Nothing new
We also had elections during wars. The McClellan / Lincoln fight was particularly interesting. Internicene bickering during war time is old hat in American politics. If they can't take it then they shouldn't be in the White house in the first place.

LD
Humor ... it is a difficult concept. It is not logical.

Bush should have demaded the Democrats
either put up or shut up under penalty of high treason. At the first moment that Democrat law makers like Kennedy and others began calliing the President a lier the President should of declared that if any law maker has any proof of that then they should begin impeachment procedings against him, otherwise any outburst that underminds the war effort and gives aid and comfort to the enemy will be determind as treason act and will that perpatraitor will be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

lionhearted
You seem to just plain not trust the people? I know a dictatorship is so much cleaner and settled especially a military one. The sad fact is they usually don't last long. This chaos is what has helped us survive these past couple of hundred years or so.

religiouslib why should we be scared?
So a nuclear weapons in the hands of people that are the same mind as those who hit us on 9/11 doesn't worry you?

Are you brain dead?

I do not understand
why President Bush didn't ask Congress to Declare war and why the administration doesn't prosecute the war according to the danger they believe the country faces.

I believe finebammer's post more aptly describes our motives in Iraq than anything the administration has ever said. It's a pity that President Bush, viewed as a "straight talker" is not and apparently lacks the statesmanlike qualities Gaffney is looking for.


Garbage
Who are the enemy in this war? The enemy have never been named. If the enemy were Sadam Hussein and the Baath party they we have defeated the enemy and should leave. But it is not that simple because we have fomented a civil war between the Sunnis and the Shias so which side are we on, the Shias or the Sunnis? The problem is that the war was not declared and the reasons for the war were never real. The WMD when they existed could have been used against us in the first Gulf War but Saddam Hussein did not use them against us then. So what is the argument that he would sell them to terrorists and somehow that was a threat to us. Any arms dealer can sell arms to terrorists who might use them to attack us. Are we going to war against every country that might have arms dealers who will sell weapons that might some day be used against us? The reasons to attack a sovereign nation should be spelled out by Congress written into law and all fulls scale invasions of a sovereign nation should be preceded by a declaration of war so there is no question about who the enemy is. Then the laws of sedition or sabateurs can be discussed but not about a murky war like this which though we are told many times is not like Viet Nam is exactly like Viet Nam because we are fighting an undeclared war against a people we do not call our enemy. The reasons for going to war should be debated in Congress and written into law and the war should be declared as called for by the constitution.

That stinks of dictatorship.
Lionhearted writes: Tuesday, February, 13, 2007 4:13 PM
Bush should have demaded the Democrats
either put up or shut up under penalty of high treason. At the first moment that Democrat law makers like Kennedy and others began calliing the President a lier the President should of declared that if any law maker has any proof of that then they should begin impeachment procedings against him, otherwise any outburst that underminds the war effort and gives aid and comfort to the enemy will be determind as treason act and will that perpatraitor will be prosecuted to the fullest extent.
***********************************
Way to start a coup there. Here's who would immediately smack down the President for such nonsense:
-The Supreme Court
-Both houses of Congress
-Potentially the military. It would be terrible but they ahve a duty to protect the nation and our constitution from threats domestic as well. That includes Presidents who attempt to turn the US into a dictatorship.


I am often amazed democracy has survived this long, under assault from both the left and the right.

To Swampfox
You know as well as I know that Saddam's 15 yr old stash of WMD's in Iraq or chemical weapons were basically no good and Saddam definately couldn't threaten the US with them like we were led to believe. ( I heard they were left over from Saddam "gassing the Kurds" days.)
Anyway old news and arguing about WMD's aint gonna get us out of Iraq and back on tract to being a lending nation rather than a debtor nation.

Even Pres Bush himself has admitted mistakes in Iraq.

Here is a different plan that might work...

Get Iraqis to step up to the plate and have US soldiers guard Iraq's borders and get insurgents out of Anbar. No more of our troops definately, let some of the other coalition countries take on some responsibility with troops.
Iraqi forces should quail violence in Bagdad and rebuild infrastructure at the same time under US military control and guidance.

Once violence is gone and country starts rebuilding have US make a military zone in the SE of Iraq to be rdy to roll into Bagdad if need be.

If Iraqis want to have a civil war then we need to step back and let it happen, or divide Iraq into 3 states under one very limited central government.
By 2008/09, we could be out of there for good except maybe a base.

Last but not least, have a big celebration for our troops as soon as they start coming home and give them the honor and welcome home they deserve.



Blame the voters
Whether we stayed home in protest or voted Democratic or for a third party in protest against something else that Bush has done (like refusing to enforce our borders), we the people gave the Democrats their position of power in Congress today. They told us what their intentions were and many of us voted for them anyway. Let's all look in the mirror for someone to blame.

Donaldd
You raise an interesting question about the Iranian weapons supposedly discovered in Iraq.

The real question is where did those pieces originate? I'm only guessing, but I surmise that they are identified as of Iranian origin because the arms merchants that sold those pieces have identified them by the serial numbers. The Iranians didn't have to read English to know how to use them, and neither did the Iraqis. They're not instruction manuals.

TheHistorian wrote
"I find it interesting that deep thinkers like `liberalgoodman' think that raising taxes is the sign that we are at war." --

Signs that we're at war: raising taxes, a draft, rationing, ... . A war, an actual war, is an emergency situation. When your very existence is threatened you don't respond on the cheap, you respond with everything you have. You don't low-ball the cost, but talk "blood, sweat, and tears". The invasion of Iraq is not a war in this sense. There is no "war on terror" in this sense. George Bush, Jr. is no Winston Churchill. Al Qaeda and the Badr Corps are not Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan with mighty economies and million man armies.

Those quibbling about war in Iraq;
I am wondering if any Libs know we are at war with Radical Islam?
There ARE NO BORDERS in this world war.
Not being privy to the reason Iraq was chosen to be next after Afghanistan I am not naive enough to comment on the choice of battlefield.
Just in case you Libs don't know it, Islam is also a form of political rule. If they win there will be no more elections, ever.
Like most sane Americans I would prefere we fight our wars on foreign soil. I am sure any Veteran who has seen war close up and personal will agree.
I hope we do not need to get thousands of American civilians killed and maimed just to satisfy the curious Liberals.
If American shopping malls and football games are being bombed the Libs will soon see why I don't want war here in America.
If we retreat from Iraq the enemy calls the shots till we regain the offensive.

Moondoggy...
I know there are posters here who will never get it. Please know,that the ones who do are waiting for the win...and cheering you on the best way we can, if we cannot serve. I defend it all the time and I will not stop. I would stick ny hand in the flame, believe me! I wish my voice were alot louder...

Hal Donahue re: WWII leaders
Stalin made another mistake in 1938 when he massacred hundreds of Red Army officers above the rank of Major. The following year, in spite of overwhelming advantage in numbers, it took the Soviets three months to subjugate Finland. Finns, with their own weapons that they knew how to use, were picking off Soviet troops right and left. When Stalin died in 1953 there was a rumor that a pillow, in the hands of s Red Army agent, hastened the obituary of the "Butcher of the Ukraine."

Does Anyone in Their Right Mind
really want to sample those "no good" WMDs?

Chemical weapons are not like milk and
do not have a short expiration date.


Cad Man
You are right about Stalin but it didn't stop there he continued after he "got their attention" in 38. All I am saying is this nonsense about blind support is just that nonsense. Hell Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt protested war in the streets. If we stop questioning and pushing our leadership we wind up in the dustbin of history.

skyhawe95
i guess you don't read the news. the first two guys who ran across that stuff opened it and were exposed and got mildly sick for 2 days and that was it.

chemicals do have a shelf life.
they degrade fairly rapidly.

that is why no one responsible in government EVER made the case that these were the wmd that were supposedly there.

skyhawe95
here is a news article from the incident i mentioned.


Two people were treated for "minor exposure" after the sarin incident but no serious injuries were reported. Soldiers transporting the shell for inspection suffered symptoms consistent with low-level chemical exposure, which is what led to the discovery, a U.S. official told Fox News.

As I've said for years,
a large portion of liberals are traitors. The rest are ignorant.

liberalgoodman:
When taxes levied are greater than necessary for the proper functions of government, you INCREASE tax revenues by DECREASING marginal tax rates. This happened under Harding/Coolidge, it happened under JFK, it happened under Reagan, and it happened under Bush The Younger. The opposite (increase in marginal rates resulting in decrease or slowdown in tax revenues) happened under Clinton and Bush The Elder. Keeping the economy running efficiently so the war can be prosecuted demands AT THE VERY LEAST that the current tax rates be made permanent. And before you trot out the "BENEFIT THE RICH" canard, note that the rich contributed a higher percentage of the tax revenues EVERY TIME the rates were cut
(http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/BG1443.cfm).

You're statement that the islamofascists don't compare militarily to their philosophical brethren from 2 generations ago is correct, but only undercuts your argument. There is NO WAY we can lose to these tyrant wannabes militarily- they can win only if we concede the field. A draft would only compromise the current proffesional military. Rationing is used when insufficient materials are available for all purposes, and some means other than the usual market mechanisms are needed to allocate them to militarily vital uses. Show me ANYTHING we don't have the werewhithal to provide, and we can consider rationing of the materials needed to produce it. However, chances are the market solution will work better.

So what is the purpose of those who say we aren't sacrificing enough because we don't have a draft, or rationing, or tax hikes (talk about fighting the last war!)? These complaints invariably come from those opposing the war in Iraq (actually a battlefield, not a war- but we'll save that for another time). They seem to believe that if more Americans were inconvenienced, support for the war would have been degraded without the need for 3 years of negative drumbeating resulting in the start of a self-fulfilling prophecy. OOH- EPIPHANY ALERT! They seem to share the view of Al Qaeda and their ilk that Americans no longer have the character to stand up for themselves or their principles And, of course, that they are better suited to decide for the common man the "proper" way for him to live his life.

You did get one thing right (hope stubbing your toe on that acorn wasn't too painful). We are no more fighting a "War on Terror" than our fathers & grandfathers fought a "War on Blitzkrieg". Our war is against Radical Islam.

P.S. Hope this comes out allright... my first ever post, anywhere. I came across something I couldn't stand not responding to any longer. Can anybody suggest where I might find a tutorial to make this easier & quicker (I started this about 90 minutes ago!)?

Shrinque
i will put my 2 nitwits Kennedy-Kerry up against yours any day.

CT, Repubs are liberals too.
If anyone here still thinks Repubs are conservative, please come back to reality.

Looks as though Admin was caught in another lie, about helicopter being shot down in Iraq.

If admin can't even get it straight on who is shooting down or attacking our troops, why on earth would anyone allow them to send more troops to Bagdad.

I definately give this admin a vote of "no confidence".


The Blind continues to lead the blind
The people who follow Bush, even after all his admitted mistakes, are what I would call people who jump on every bandwagon good or bad that comes down the pike.
In essence theyre the blind following the blind.
Hey watchout for that hole in the ground up ahead.
Were warning you it's there, but your lust and passions for the pres and his legacy is the most important thing to you. Reminds me of the Demos and their blind allegiance to Clinton.

Remember that when you start to fall in the hole, and President Bush is admitting mistakes again.

ct-liberals as traitors
you are a hate america first person.

these are your fellow americans. just because someone does not agree with your politics does not make them a traitor.

do you know any liberals.
if you do are they good people or traitors.

i am liberal because i am a christian.80% of liberals are christians.



phxvet
Please stop insulting our troops with the nonsense like above. Our troops know the political process as well or better than most. If there was no discussion, they would be completely forgotten. The professional soldier knows that he/she can be killed in a forgotten conflict like the Marine Barracks in Lebanon or some other "minor" conflict. It is part of the job.

religeouslib, liberals are not christian
they like to think they are. but they are really antichrist because they don't hold to christian doctrine and tend to believe that there are many ways to God. and that Islam is just another way.

Christ said he is the way the life and the truth no one cometh to the father except through him.

Which mission?
Are you talking about Iraq or the war on terror? Iraq is just a theater in the war on terror and I damn sure hope someone is paying attention to the debacle. Our troops shouldn't be abandoned to a wasteful and stupid theater. Let them get on with the war on terror. Many of the troops think Iraq is a wasted effort and their numbers are growing daily.

lionhearted what are you talking about
i am a liberal because i am a christian.
i believe in the soul
i believe in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost
i believe in faith and the power of prayer.

your response would really surprise the millions of american baptists (my denomination), presbyterians, methodists, and lutherns who are liberal.

you are badly misinformed and a christian hater if you really believe those things.


Lionhearted
I also thought he said something about love one another and turn the other cheek? I am amazed how you extremists have turned a Jesus from a loving forgiving god into a god of war and hate.

phxvet
so it is your contention that democracy stops when a war starts?

you are saying no matter the president and no matter the war we MUST support him even if we disagree.

this would come as a surprise to our founding fathers but then conservatives like yourself don't believe in the constitution anyway.

the constitution gave Congress the the right to declare war not the President. that is news to you isn't it?

phxvet
We did abandon the Phillippines for quite a few years. When confronted with hopeless or too costly causes in wartime we should rightly evaluate our tactics and strategy. In Iraq we are fighting a civil war and confronting the choas of a failed nation building effort. It is well past time to go attack the terrorist like Osama and his organization and not waste time with surrogates that win or lose will only strengthen our real enemies.

phxvet
Both Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt protested in the streets against wars. There is a long and honorable history of our citizens challenging our presidents' during wartime. My opinion is that is why Churchill and Roosevelt did so well in WWII. All the noise and differing opinions forced them to evaluate and reconsider and adjust their leadership and tactics. Unquestioned dictators such as Mussolini and Hitler didn't fair near as well and frequently overrode their officers military decisions.

phxvet
Yes a retreat from Iraq would be a defeat just like the Phillipines but you would rather grind down our military and have little left to confront another threat? The killing of terrorists outside of Iraq is on the back burner. The national command authority is consumed with Iraq.

no phxvet
it was actually trying to use a hypothetical and not referring to bush.

lets say that in the future we have a president for whatever reason decides to invade canada or something outrageous like that. are you saying once the mission starts the people and the congress cannot object?

does not sound right to me.

phxvet
How does handing our enemies a victory help us fight the larger war on terror? We can concentrate all our forces on attacking and killing Osama and his supporters.

what you criticism some call oversight
the congress was given the power of the purse and as far as criticism that is in the eye of the beholder.

i do not fall into your category of a bush hater and do not want to pull the troops out. there is a third way.

conservatives want to claim either or.

phxvet
Bush is not adjusting leadership these exact same tactics were tried twice before and failed. If he really believed all he has said about the importance of Iraq he would declare a national emergency and send 200,000 troops. Yes that means draft and another major problem we can't manufacture the equipment fast enough to equip them. But that discussion is for another day. This is a very new congress for one and for another Bush's preformance to date has inspired a complete lack of confidence in the American people. Perhaps Bush should consider resigning rather than dragging out an ineffectual war effort

religiouslib you believe in but have you
asked the holy spirit to come into your heart and make Jesus Christ the Lord of your life?

And as a servent of the Lord Jesus seek to spread his gospel throught the unsaved world which was the great commision given by Jesus Christ himself.

Hal Danhue I didn't turn God
into anything I just simply stated what Jesus said, and if you and religiouslib would bother to actualy read the gospel of Jesus you would have known that.

Oh and another thing Hal Danahue
Which wars did Abe Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt protest against in the streets?

I don't have any information on Lincln, but if you are refering to Teddy Roosevlts activism before and during World War 1 check your facts, Roosevlt was an ardent supporter of the war effort.

protesting
Abe Lincoln - potentially the Mexican American War. That was a pretty unpopular conflict (at least until we won heh heh) and would be in the timeframe.

Teddy - much harder. he may have been of a mind to stay out of WWI (if he were still alive) but I don't see Teddy protesting much of anything. He was a do-er not a whineer. Then again judging by WWI if he was against our involvement that probably would have been the best thing. The only other possible "war" would have been the late 19th century Indian Wars. I could see him become disgusted with the conflict due to his love of all things West.

jf, there is much documentation
in film archives depicting Roosevelt vigorously supporting United States involvment in the First World War.

Lionhearted
There probably is. Thats the only war I could think of. Again I could see him being against the war, until the war was declared, then he would stand stalwartly behind the actions of the US government. Thats the kind of guy he was.

Teddy for President! Bull Moose in 2008!

JF, I can't see it
Teddy Roosevelt built A world class naval force and the Pannama Canal for the expressed purpose of America asserting herself militarily in the world. And protecting our freedom of navigation of the seas which the germans violated with their unrestricted submarine attacks against merchant fleet and ocean liners.

I can't either
Just trying to think of something that would support the earlier poster's statements that Teddy protested a war.

Forgot about the whole White Fleet trip didn't I. Yea, its pretty implausable when you bring up his resurgent navy policies, and the Panama Canal. Wasn't exactly an isolationist was he.

update
Lincoln protested the Blackhawk war and Teddy protested our involvement in WWI. Hell folks just look it up it isn't rocket science.

Please all have a great evening
and sleep well

lionhearted
you are so insulting and self-righteous but i will answer you religious question anyway. what you don't seem to understand is that someone can be born again and just as biblically astute as you and be a liberal.
i was raised in a family of preachers and my brother is an ordained minister with a church in the midwest.

there is an actual protestant liberal movement going on led by Rev. hal wallis and sojourner magazine.
millions of christians are liberals and are liberal because of their christianity.

but to answer your question yes, i have asked Jesus Christ into my life, been baptized and try to live a life of testimony to him and about him.

i am afraid that your political views have become your religion and caused you to forsake fellow christians. i pray this is not true.

God Be With You

phxvet
please explain how i am playing loose with the facts.

second of all, the third way is putting 100000's of troops in to really bring security but bush either doesn't have the guts or intelligence to do so

Gen. patreaus (spelling incorrect) in his counter insurgency manual plainly called for hundreds of thousands of troops to do the job right but like all else in this war, bush continues to try to do this on the cheap and without asking the american people to really sacrifice.

again, i am sure bush is a nice enough person but he has simply been incompetent in the prosecution of this war.

lincoln never said it
Gafney needs to check his facts. Lincoln never said it. This from Fact Check "Supporters of President Bush and the war in Iraq often quote Abraham Lincoln as saying members of Congress who act to damage military morale in wartime "are saboteurs, and should be arrested, exiled or hanged."
But Lincoln never said that. The conservative author who touched off the misquotation frenzy, J. Michael Waller, concedes that the words are his, not Lincoln's. Waller says he never meant to put quote marks around them, and blames an editor for the mistake and the failure to correct it."

Might also be interested to know that Lincoln was against the Mexican War of 1848, which we started, and often said so in public. I guess he didn't buy the current GOP and Bush line equating protesting our government's war policy with encouraging the "enemy" either.

Hal Danahue, are you saying
that Teddy Roosevelt changed his mind about our entry into World War One?

I do believe he lost a son in that conflict flying combat missions and was broken up about it. however I don't think he protested in the streets against the war.

Truly Inappropriate
I am very upset and feel it is very unprofessional for Townhall to continue to run this column without a disclaimer regarding the serious misinformed lie that Gaffney made here.

It is truly inappropriate for Townhall to allow Gaffney to vent his misinformed rants, but now it is almost treasonous for the website to sit back as this "security expert" smears 62% of the country with a quote falsely attributed to the great Abraham Lincoln.

Shame on you!

Frank J. Gaffney not quoting Lincoln
“Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged.”

President Abraham Lincoln


Lincoln never said that. The conservative author who touched off the misquotation frenzy, J. Michael Waller, concedes that the words are his, not Lincoln's. Waller says he never meant to put quote marks around them, and blames an editor [at the magazine Insight] for the mistake and the failure to correct it."
-- FactCheck.org, 8/25/06


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