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Thursday, October 18, 2007
Emmett Tyrrell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Seven Things To Know About the Clintons
by Emmett Tyrrell
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WASHINGTON -- This week, it was reported in the authoritative Capitol Hill newspaper, The Hill, that Don Van Natta Jr. and Jeff Gerth included some unsavory news about Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton in "Her Way," their recent book about her. Hillary, during the 1992 presidential campaign, "listened to a secretly recorded audiotape of a phone conversation of Clinton critics." Washington observers appeared shocked. Mein Gott, where have they been all these years? The Clintons have engaged in brute behavior for decades, much of it a matter of record. The Hill's report moves me to list seven issues every American should know about the Clintons before 2008. Journalists should be particularly interested, as well as Democrats intent on avoiding a repeat of the Clinton 1990s.

1. Every Clinton scandal of the 1990s had a precedent in the Clinton governorship of the 1980s in Arkansas. Just as the Clintons abused the presidential pardon power when they left the White House and took property that was not their own, so did they abuse the pardon power and pilfer from the governor's mansion upon leaving it in 1981. Just as they have been caught taking money from the shadowy Norman Hsu this year and from other dubious Asian figures in the 1990s, so too were their 1980s campaigns marked by financial irregularities. The first Asian donors entered their political lives in 1986, with the Chinese-Indonesian Riady family. In 2001, the Riadys paid more than $8 million in Federal Election Commission fines for their munificence in the 1990s. Hsu's donations are of a piece with what might be called the Clintons' "Chop Suey Connection." The Clintons dismiss all this as old news, but that is only because they are what law enforcement officials call repeat offenders.

Even Hillary's health care fiasco of 1993-94 had a precedent in her statewide education reform in Arkansas that left Arkansas still at the bottom of the heap in national education ratings.

2. For years, the Clintons have bullied the press, political opponents, prosecutors and those women who caught Bill's eye. Their successful efforts to suppress the recent GQ story by Josh Green show that their bullying continues. Since the 1980s, the Clintons have employed private investigators, for instance, Terry Lenzner, Jack Palladino and Anthony Pellicano, the latter of whom is a convicted felon. Gennifer Flowers, Monica Lewinsky and Kathleen Willey are but the most famous of the many women who have been harassed by the Clintons' private detectives. In my recent book, "The Clinton Crack-Up," I report that at least one independent counsel in the 1990s took to carrying a gun after being harassed on Washington streets. The harassment was very similar to harassment my reporters experienced in Little Rock, Ark., in the mid-1990s.

3. Rumors of Sen. John McCain's temper have haunted his campaign. Hillary's temper is even more widely documented, by disaffected Secret Service agents, military aides, Arkansas state troopers and others. Hillary repeatedly has been in rows with agents whom she importuned to carry her bags despite Secret Service regulations against the practice. While first lady, Hillary threw a book at the back of an agent's head, as reported to me by White House military personnel. She repeatedly has thrown temper tantrums in front of staff, used foul language and hit her husband, as reported by security and other staff members.

4. Hillary is given to what the historian Richard Hofstadter termed "The Paranoid Style in American Politics." In 1998, she famously claimed that a "vast right-wing conspiracy" had mobilized against her and her husband. She repeatedly has characterized simple two-party partisanship as the consequence of secretive conspiratorial maneuverings. No modern politician so high in American politics has so frequently manifested the paranoid style, a style Hofstadter associated generally with political extremists, generally extremists on the far right.

5. The Clintons have, to use the words of President Harry Truman -- who, while president, scrupulously insulated the White House from fundraising and, in retirement, refused speaker's fees -- "commercialized the presidency." They used the White House, most notably the Lincoln Bedroom, to reward donors. Bill Clinton himself has earned more than $43 million in speaker's fees since leaving the White House, including millions from the Red Chinese and the United Arab Emirates. Such venality by a retired president is unprecedented, and his encroachments on campaign finance regulations have been numerous.

6. Very little of this has escaped the notice of journalists and of Democratic leaders. Yet after every scandal, they forget their public denunciations of the Clintons. Here are some flavorous reminders: After the Clintons and their siblings were caught in the 42nd president's last-minute pardon scandal, Jimmy Carter called them "disgraceful." Robert Reich opined that "Clinton is utterly disgraced." Al Hunt called Clinton the "albatross" of his party who should "drop dead." Al Gore's campaign manager, Donna Brazile, wrote in The New York Times, "It's time to let Bill Clinton go -- go on and live the rest of his life and allow a new generation of Democratic leaders to renew their fight on behalf of working families in America." New York Times columnist Bob Herbert affirmed that "Bill Clinton has been a disaster for the Democratic Party. Send him packing. … It's time for the Democratic Party to wise up. Ostracism would be a good first step. Bill Clinton should be cut completely loose. … Some of Mr. Clinton's closest associates and supporters are acknowledging what his enemies have argued for years -- the man is so thoroughly corrupt it is frightening."

Editorially in February 2001, The New York Times asserted that "the former president … seemed to make a redoubled effort in the last moments of his presidency to plunge further and further beneath the already low expectations of his most cynical critics and most of his world-weary friends." And the newspaper lamented that it might "never understand the process by which a departing president and his wife come to put sofas and flatware ahead of the acute sense of propriety that ought to go with high office." The New York Observer assessed Hillary's election to the Senate "a terrible mistake," adding that "Hillary Rodham Clinton is unfit for elective office."

Those are some of the unlovely things said about the Clintons by their friends . Now are the Democrats really going ahead with a Hillary nomination?

7. The media have been lax in reporting the Clintons' unprecedented record of ethical failings and outright corruption. Most glaringly even the conservative columnists remain inert. The conservatives have adopted the position that all of the above is passe and to dwell on it is unseemly and awkward.

Well, call me unfashionable, but I find the Clinton record alarming.

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About The Author
R. Emmett Tyrrell Jr. is founder and editor in chief of The American Spectator and co-author of Madame Hillary: The Dark Road to the White House.
 
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©Creators Syndicate
what is the hildaPIG qualified for?
Q: What has the hildaPIG accomplished besides spending years feeding at the taxpayer financed trough?

A: Thirty plus years of handling, 'BIMBO ERUPTIONS'...


Should Hillary be Arrested?
If, as Mr. Tyrrell states, Hillary hit Bill, wasn't that a federal crime?

Wouldn't it have been rich to see her arrested for assulting the POTUS?

CIVIL WAR
LIBERALS TAKE NOTE

I firmly believe that if Hillary is elected then two things are going to occur which will set a process in motion which will lead to a civil war.

She'll try to take our guns and our God. Without our guns we cannot stand up and protect ourselves from the socialist regime which Hillary wants to create. Without God there is no right or wrong.

Remember the line from the movie Hunt From Red October: "A little revolution now & then is a healthy thing."

So if you are a liberal and your wish comes true, you had better think about the consequences. And if you don't think it could happen then you don't understand history and you are ignorant.

Simply not quaified
I think the most important point concerning H.C.'s Presidential aspirations has gone unstated. She is simply not qualified to lead the greatest free nation in the world. Her political record speaks for itself, a hollow, vacuous record of nothingness. She fits the very description of a carpetbagger, air lifted into a Democratic safe house constituency where I suspect even Charles Manson would be elected if he were able to run on the Democratic ticket. If fundraising money is the sole criteria for winning (buying) the Presidency, and it appears to be number one on the list judging by the importance attached to the daily up-dates of the candidates treasuries, then the democratic process takes a hit. The best candidate isn't neccessarily the richest, unfortunately money is neccessary to get your message to the voters. We do not know who will emerge as a populist favorite in either party, someone who can unite the country, but we do know who will divide the nation further and begin the descent to third world status. We do know who will bankrupt the nation with social programs and effectively eliminate the middle class. We do know who will drive corporate America further off shore. We do know who will weaken our military and intel agencies leaving us vulnerable to those that seek to destroy our way of life. We do know who would legitimize illegal aliens to ensure more Democratic votes. We do know who will use any means, ethical or not, to seize power. All voters should really stop and think what kind of America Hillary Clintons America would be like, be careful what you wish for. The most damning concern we should be aware of is that every America hating nation on earth is rooting for a Clinton victory.

Desire to be President
As a rule, anybody who really, REALLY wants to be the President probably should NOT be the President.

In my opinion, Hillary REALLY wants to be President for all the wrong reasons. It is ALL about POWER for her, not about doing the right thing.

Her desire for power is transparent.

Phredd

A civil war
A civil war might be sped up by this hideous harridan's election. Might not be so bad.

Hillbillary 4
"We are at a stage in history in which remolding society is one of the great challenges facing all of us in the West."
(From the book "I've Always Been A Yankee Fan" by Thomas D. Kuiper, p. 119 - During her 1993 commencement address at the University of Texas)

"The only way to make a difference is to acquire power"
(From the book "I've Always Been A Yankee Fan" by Thomas D. Kuiper, p. 68 - Hillary to a friend before starting law school.)

"We just can't trust the American people to make those types of choices.... Government has to make those choices for people"
(From the book "I've Always Been A Yankee Fan" by Thomas D. Kuiper, p. 20 - Hillary to Rep. Dennis Hastert in 1993 discussing her expensive, disastrous taxpayer-funded health care plan)

"I am a fan of the social policies that you find in Europe"
(Hillary in 1996" From the book "I've Always Been A Yankee Fan" by Thomas D. Kuiper, p. 76 - Hillary in 1996)

This ill-tempered, violent, foul mouthed, hateful and abusive cobra wants to be your president and have total control as commander-in-chief of a military that she and her party so openly and proudly admit they detest. Can someone like this gain the respect of our military, our citizens and other nations, and especially from their leaders, who refuse to do as she tells them ...or else. No thanks, my country deserves a better leader, not a dominatrix!

Hillbillary 3
"Where's the miserable c*ck sucker?"
(From the book "The Truth About Hillary" by Edward Klein, p. 5 - Hillary shouting at a Secret Service officer)

"Put this on the ground! I left my sunglasses in the limo. I need those sunglasses. We need to go back!"
(From the book "Dereliction of Duty" p. 71-72 - Hillary to Marine One helicopter pilot to turn back while en route to Air Force One.)

"A right-wing network was after his presidency...including perverting the Constitution."
(To Barbara Walters about the Republicans who impeached her husband; 20/20, ABC 6/8/2003.)

"Son of a b*tch."
(From the book "American Evita" by Christopher Anderson, p. 259 - Hillary's opinion of President George W. Bush when she found out he secretly visited Iraq just days before her highly publicized trip to Iraq)

"What are you doing inviting these people into my home? These people are our enemies! They are trying to destroy us!"
(From the book "The Survivor" by John Harris, p. 99 - Hillary screaming to an aide, when she found out that some Republicans had been invited to the Clinton White House)

"I mean, you've got a conservative and right-wing press presence with really nothing on the other end of the political spectrum."
(C-Span, 1/19/1997 - Hillary complains about the mainstream media, which are all conservatives in her opinion)

"Come on Bill, put your dick up! You can't f**k her here!!"
(From the book "Inside The White House" by Ronald Kessler, p. 243 - Hillary to Gov. Clinton when she spots him talking with an attractive female at an Arkansas political rally)

You know, I'm going to start thanking the woman who cleans the restroom in the building I work in. I'm going to start thinking of her as a human being -Hillary Clinton
(From the book "The Case Against Hillary Clinton" by Peggy Noonan, p. 55)


Hillbillary 2
"You f**king idiot."
(From the book "Crossfire" p. 84 - Hillary to a State Trooper who was driving her to an event.)

"If you want to remain on this detail, get your f**king a*s over here and grab those bags!"
(From the book "The First Partner" p. 259 - Hillary to a Secret Service Agent who was reluctant to carry her luggage because he wanted to keep his hands free in case of an incident.)

"Get f**ked! Get the f**k out of my way!!! Get out of my face!!!"
(From the book "Hillary's Scheme" p. 89 - Hillary's various comments to her Secret Service detail agents.)

"Stay the f**k back, stay the f**k away from me! Don't come within ten yards of me, or else! Just f**king do as I say, Okay!!!?"
(From the book "Unlimited Access", by Clinton FBI Agent in Charge, Gary Aldrige, p. 139 - Hillary screaming at her Secret Service detail.)

"Many of you are well enough off that [President Bush's] tax cuts may have helped you. We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to have to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."
(Hillary grandstanding at a fund raising speech in San Francisco; SFGate.com 6/28/2004.)

"Why do I have to keep proving to people that I am not a liar?!"
(From the book "The Survivor," by John Harris, p. 382 - Hillary in her 2000 Senate campaign)


Boys and girls......
The following posts show what Hillbillary is like when she is on display for those who can later quote her. Can you imagine what Bill has to put up with? No wonder he is a serial philanderer. That is not to excuse him, because he deserves all the scorn and vituperation that Hillbillary and the rest of us can pour on him.

"Where is the G-damn f**king flag? I want the G-damn f**king flag up every f**king morning at f**king sunrise."
(From the book "Inside The White House" by Ronald Kessler, p. 244 - Hillary to the staff at the Arkansas Governor's mansion on Labor Day, 1991)

"You sold out, you mother f**ker! You sold out!"
(From the book "Inside" by Joseph Califano, p. 213 - Hillary yelling at Democrat lawyer.)

"F**k off! It's enough that I have to see you sh*t-kickers every day, I'm not going to talk to you too!! Just do your G*damn job and keep your mouth shut."
(From the book "American Evita" by Christopher Anderson, p. 90 - Hillary to her State Trooper bodyguards after one of them greeted her with "Good morning."


cookie
I don't even know who you are. To what specifically are you talking about? I was only giving my side.

Taft
Are you illiterate? Next time I need someone to defend me, I won't be calling you.

7 things to know about Clintons
1. They don't endorse Black sites where people are tortured.
2. They aren't in the back pockets of oil and Halibertonions.
3. Their not stupider than a rock and speak a full sentence.
4. They don't has Morris the hooker guy on their side.
5. They don't support worthy causes like anti abortion and then do practically nada.
6. They don't have garbage rummagers as their brains.
7. They don't use Christians like Rove did and call them "Nuts"!

Lemonade is Wrong
Illegal aliens most certainly kill thousands of people a year, although the statistics can be difficult to obtain because of Bush-supported regulations that prohibit inquiring about legality status. For detailed statistical evidence of the thousands of people per year killed by illegal aliens see the web site http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53103
Congressman Steve King of Iowa also has researched this issue.

Heather MacDonald's devastating critique of the crimes by illegal aliens produced the following statistics, in an article published in City Journal (www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html)
In Los Angeles alone, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (1,200-1,500) and up to two thirds of fugitive felony warrants (1,7000) are for illegal aliens.

Troll Lovin Mutt
"CLinton agreed to the payout and disbarment to end the prosecution. he was never convicted of anything...."

*** That's absolutely correct. The Clintons didn't want any part of their cr@p dug into too deep, so they stopped it the only way they could with the national spotlight ON them! That's usually what creeps do when they don't want to take legal action to the end ... they just cut their losses and pay the piper. That way no further ugly crimes can be exposed or discovered.

Bwahahahahahaha

Socialism and Her Thighness
Isn't it amusing that leftists in this Country like to compare consevatives to Nazis? Are they unaware that the most repressive regimes in modern history were socialist or communist? The word "nazi," it bears remembering, is an abbreviation for national socialist workers' party.

If Hillary is elected, which is quite possible, we will see abandonment of constitutional rights such as free speech (fairness doctrine) and the right to bear arms as never before. When she silences opposition voices, collects guns, legalizes illegal aliens, and raises taxes to be redistributed to the least productive in society we will discover what remains, if anything, of the American character.

Maybe we need her to be elected so we will be forced to remember our heritage. This is not about Repub v Dem. This is about who we are as a people. Our founding fathers feared the type of strong centralized government Mrs. Clinton champions. They would not have let her empty their chamberpots.

Mr Tyrell, you are wrong in...
...bothering to quote some conservatives that dwelling on the criminal (in the broadest meaning of the word) inclinations of the Clintons is unseemly and awkward. You are absolutely correct in reminding us of these criminal inclinations of theirs.

Now that we have the criminal inclinations listed and described in one place, how can the most dreamy eyed, bleeding heart lib/lefty even imagine that another Clinton presidency would do anything but continue to damage this great nation?

The Clintons are common prostitutes with oversized egos. Nothing more, nothing less.

Here is a little help."
boomer writes: Friday, October, 19, 2007 8:59 AM
"MLD is one of moveon.org's disciples"

Lefties believe them have been banned when TH's servers are slow or lose traffic. They log on with different names and passwords, then they have two, then three, then four. They lose track of who they are. Then they think it's a trick only they know.



Watter and dirt
Military Lovin' Dogg writes: Thursday, October, 18, 2007 11:07 AM
"Emmet Tyrell was one of the main mud slingers".
Deornwulf writes: Thursday, October, 18, 2007 11:25 AM
MLD
Are you telling us that you believe that the Clintons are saints and that every story told about them doing anything unethical or immoral is a lie?

No, MLD is telling us those that make mud, sell mud pies, roll in mud, have friends that live in mud and throw mud to calm bimbo ruptions, have friends who don't want to see the Klintons muddy.

Shakedowns
So criminal organizations that deal in human trafficking and 'protection' are shaking down their helpless clients to provide cash for the Clinton Crime Family. How can anyone support these guys? And is the cash actually from the dishwashers and street vendors it supposedly came from or is it just another flood of Chicom cash to Red China's favorite power couple?

shells
They protested Pelosi in Chicago today. I had a slow day planned. If I knew, I would have joined in the fun in protesting "the blinker."

Donors For Hillary
An unlikely treasure-trove of donors for Clinton

Is Hillary taking advantage of low wage foreign worker or will she hurt American workers?

LATIMES….Many of Clinton’s Chinatown donors said they had contributed because leaders in neighborhood associations told them to. In some cases, donors said they felt pressure to give.

The other piece of the strategy involves holding out hope that, if Clinton becomes president, she will move quickly to reunite families and help illegal residents move toward citizenship. As New York’s junior senator, Clinton has expressed support for immigrants and greater family reunification. She is also benefiting from Chinese donors’ naive notions of what she could do in the White House.

Dishwashers, waiters and others whose jobs and dilapidated home addresses seem to make them unpromising targets for political fundraisers are pouring $1,000 and $2,000 contributions into Clinton’s campaign treasury. In April, a single fundraiser in an area long known for its gritty urban poverty yielded a whopping $380,000. When Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) ran for president in 2004, he received $24,000 from Chinatown….

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/an-unlikely-treasu re-trove-of-donors-for-clinton



billy & hillary
make Bonnie & Clyde look like sunday school teachers.
The fact that so many adults voted for them explains why their children make our schools look bad.
No Aisian would vote for such a corrupt pair.

Lumberjack7392, unfortunately wrong
You write: "The Clintons are as crooked as a dog's hind legs".

Reality: the dog's hind legs are straighter!

Town Hall
Please fix this site!!!!!!! up is down and down is up and nothing works properly!!!

Joe America
Man likkin' Dawgg doesn't do proof as that takes actual thought.... something he's not capable of. There Dawg, your screen aught to be real messy now!!!



HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"

Hillary and her baggage
Remember Al Gore could not carry his home state of Tennessee and it cost him the election. The good people of that state knew him. Ask the people of Ark. about the Clintons. Naturally the hollywood crowd love the Clintons, but that wont get her elected. Hillary just has too much baggage and too little experience. She has never run a company, a state, or a city. She as never made a payroll. What has she done? Her ill conceived ideas like national health care, and $5,000.00 dollars for every baby, are just hair brain. The Clintons are dishonest, and Bill is still a moral dog. Rudy will rip her apart in a debate. Most people know that with Hillary comes higher taxes, no support of the military, more abortion, national safety down the tube, gun control, same sex marriage, liberal federal judges, constitution out he window, and no plan for any major issue. I dont care for several of the Republicans, but the worst of them is better than Hillary.

MLD is
one of moveon.org's disciples who has been assigned the duty of countering and discrediting commentary posted to any internet message board, blog, letter to the editor, etc. MLD will post here under several different names in order to present the appearance of greater numbers in opposition to any point mo.o disagree with.


ITs about time
I have folowed the Clinton history for years. I have read over 10 books on them. This article is TRUE to a T. These peole are vicious and have no priciples other than themselves. America Beware!!

Buzzcat
"What is the difference between Hillary's methods and the methods used by the Communists to take over a large chunk of Asia and Europe in the early to mid 20th century? What is the difference between Hillary and the self-styled "Mother of Romania" who brutalized that country for a quarter century? How quickly we forget!"

****

I've got a better question. What are the
similarities?

Buzzcat
"What is the difference between Hillary's methods and the methods used by the Communists to take over a large chunk of Asia and Europe in the early to mid 20th century? What is the difference between Hillary and the self-styled "Mother of Romania" who brutalized that country for a quarter century? How quickly we forget!"

****

I've got a better question. What are the
similarities?

RickV404
"will probably be president, but she will be universally detested, even within her own party, winning only because Republicans are so unpopular. In the end, her only major achievement will be that she was the first woman president."

*****

Where did you get such wonderful powers of
forseeing the future?

Left angle writes
"Left Angle writes: Thursday, October, 18, 2007 12:06 PM
R.Emmit Tyrell & The Arkansas Project
"The Arkansas Project:

Is the general name of a series of investigations (mostly funded by billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife) that were designed to damage and end the presidency of Bill Clinton.

Scaife gave $1.8 million dollars "to unearth damaging information about President Clinton." Some reports and investigations connected to this project focused on questions about the suicide of Vincent Foster, the Clintons' investment in Whitewater, and Troopergate."
**********************************************
My dear, what exaclty is your point?

Do you think that rich guys can't have any fun?

renny
You forgot about the hundreds of Canadian hemophiliacs who were given tainted blood from
Arkansas prisons when Billy Pervert was Governor.
And when an investigation started, the documents
proving this were mysteriously burned in a
fire.


Hllary
will probably be president, but she will be universally detested, even within her own party, winning only because Republicans are so unpopular. In the end, her only major achievement will be that she was the first woman president.

Seven things to know......
1) they're crooks
2) They're libs
3) He's an oversexed deviant
4) She's a shrill
5) She wants to spend YOUR money
6) She's a socialist
7) most importantly Rocky/Roberto,Roberta supports them.
If those aren't seven reasons to AVOID them(especially no.7 ) there aren't any. I know, Rocky you don't support the fringe. B.S.!!!

HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"

for Lemonade
Lemonade writes: "If the Republicans want to win this election you had better first discover what the truth is and then deal with it."

Right now, the GOP candidates are just trying to win the GOP nomination.

To do that, they have to pay attention to what Republican voters care about most, not the general public.

And polls show that the GOP voters' priorities are different. They care much more about terrorism and much less about health care. Health care isn't one of their top concerns.

When Huckabee talks about helping the unfortunate and those who have been dispossessed by the global economy, that would certainly resonate with the general public; but to the GOP voters he just sounds like a bleeding-heart, which they don't like.

for Robert
Robert writes: "So the right wing of the GOP is forced back to 'the Clinton's are horrible people'. Sorry, only the right wing is listening."

That's who it's for.
We're in the primary campaign now, not the general campaign against Hillary. As you know, the GOP base is unhappy and some have actually threatened to sit on their hands or even bolt the party if the GOP nominee isn't one of them. The purpose of this Hillary-bashing is to energize the GOP base, and remind them of just how much is at stake here, should Hillary win.

Because the GOP base isn't going to get a GOP nominee they would adore, like Hunter or Tancredo--and so they have to be persuaded to settle for less.

Caroline Miranda
" the thousands of people killed on the roads and as crime victims by illegal aliens."

THOUSANDS !!!!

Have you ever heard of the word hyperbole. If not,
how about extreme exaggeration.

If you don't have an argument without using hyperbole, you don't have an argument.

Jackpine Savage
"Anyone ever notice, you don't see 2 dems in a row as president?"

You must be a very young squirt or have a very
short memory.

I was born at the tail end of the Roosevelt
administration. During that time, three sitting
presidents who ran did not win re-election. Two
were Republicans. Also during that time we have
had 6 Democrats and 6 Republicans as President.
This is hardly a smashing victory for either side. It is just the way it tends to be. And thank God. We would be in big big trouble if the same party kept winning, wouldn't we!

" They can't possibly win on the merits of their policies"

Now let me see, Hillary's two biggest issues
are health care and ending this Iraqi thing. Last time I looked at the polls, those were the
two biggest issues of the American people, and
most were on her side.

If the Republicans want to win this election you
had better first discover what the truth is and
then deal with it. Saying stuff that sounds good
but isn't the truth won't get you anywhere.






for Petrovian
Petrovian asks: "Here, the challenge is, how can you be appealing to independent voters. At the same time, how can you be appealing to your base?"

It's the fault of the base.

I remember Reagan's 1980 campaign. Back then, the Christian evangelicals understood that they had to settle for some lip service from Reagan. And that Reagan wasn't perfect in their eyes either; he had been divorced; as governor he had signed some pro-choice legislation into law, etc. But Reagan was trying to reach out to moderate Democrats, who would be alienated by a hard-right Christian evangelical social agenda. So Reagan talked only about the economy and foreign policy, not "values" issues.

But the Christian base of the GOP has become steadily more powerful over the years--and more arrogant. Now they have a long list of litmus tests, which they didn't have in 1980. I really don't think Ronald Reagan himself would have passed muster with James Dobson today, the way Dobson talks about these issues.

Bush Just Like Like Clinton
All this hand-wringing over the Clinton escapades will mean nothing, come election time. People enter the voting booth knowing that politicians are power-hungry and corrupt, and that donations are tied to legislation. No one leaves elected office poor.

People don't care about Hillary's temper any more than they care about Rudy's wife-trading. So long as their public persona show some dignity, no one cares about what happens behind closed doors.

No one expects Bush to care about the thousands of people killed on the roads and as crime victims by illegal aliens that he encourages to come to this country. No one has made a serious effort to recall from office his good friend, prosecutor Johnny Sutton, who locked up border agents Ramos and Compean, while Bush showed tender mercy to his good friend, Scooter Libby, a taske made easier with the support of conservative talk show hosts seduced into a visit at the White House and who magically returned to their stations pushing the Party line.

Perhaps Clinton went overboard in granting pardons to crooks, but that pales next to the 12-20 million pardons Bush aches to grant to illegal aliens, including violent criminals among them.

The problem with the outrage in this article is that the Clintons behaved the way the average person expects politicians to act, and Bush has not let them down.

Hillary's 2008 win
is not predestined.

Bubba only got 43% of the vote.

Lefty radicals do not have a deep base among Dems. They run to about 14%, not enough to win anything.

My NEA, usually wildly liberal, friends mostly do not want her at all. I know of only 2 that do.

If the Reps. have the brains to nominate Giuliani and run a solid cons. like Thompson or Tancredo as vp, millions of Dems. will crossover and vote Rep. as they did for Reagan.

Giuliani is given good odds to bring NJ, PA, CA, NY, and all N. Eng. back to Rep. columns. Giuliani was just endorsed by the gov. of TX and former gov. of FL--which right now has a lib. Rep. gov.

Giuliani has name appeal, a proven exec. leadership record (of which Hillary has none), and the gall and tenacity to give the Clinton war room the old NY whatfor.

RockyJones
Again your argument goes awry...you were a Reagan supporter, so you understand conservative principals, but because of Bush you are going to vote for a socialist? Huh???

bryce2
To jump on what Jackpine Savage said...the Vietnamese community in New Orleans is completely rebuilt and back to pre-Katrina. That is because they banded together, used what was given them and rebuilt.

Jackpine Savage
My sincerest apologies!! I may have let my eyes wander and read someones post and then looked at your name. I AM sorry!!

RockyJones
Your argument is almost silly. We're not ONLY relying on "The Clinton's are terrible people" as our point for not electing Hillary. My primary reason has NOTHING to do with who she is as a person. My primary reasons are her policies. Universal Health Care sounds great, but socialized medicine has been proven time and time again to NOT work. Also, the litmus test that I always apply to policies is "Who Pays"? The middle class is invariably the answer.

It doesn't matter WHO is the president, these programs don't work. If Bill Clinton was in office for Katrina it *might* have gone better, but it almost certainly would not have gone well. The nine scariest words in the English language are "Hi, we're with the government, we're here to help".

Who pays when you give 5000 dollars to every family that gives birth during your presidency? Being from the Middle Class, Hillary scares the crap out of me.

I could go on and on based on her policies. Bush has done damage to republicans but in MOST cases he has done so by not acting like a republican. That should not hurt candidates running as REAL republicans. If you would like, I will outline what republicans really stand for, rather than you feeling like you are on higher moral ground as a democrat.

jmind
I'm sorry, but you seem to have me confused with someone else. I'd suggest taking a good look at my posts, and it's pretty easy to tell that I'm somewhere to the right of Atilla the Hun.



bryce2
Look to the federal government all you like, it won't make that the way things work. FEMA won't show up until requested by the states government.

You state has ulitmate responsibility. When there is a major blizzard in the North East, the federal government doesn't come plow us out and get the power back on. There has to be a system.

The federal government DOES own some of the blame for Katrina, but most of the blame lies at the state level.

Jackpine Savage
Do you ever take the time to look in the mirror at the left?

I brought up the spin from your side (stolen election/lieing to go to war etc).

You mock faux news/townhall.com, but our list of left spin is far longer:

NBCNews, CBSNews, ABCNews, PBS, BBC, NYT, CNN, MoveOn.Org, DailyKos.

You are the spindoctors. The left has the benefit of reporting the news through their lens and that is how the spin works. Maybe Fox does lean right (it definitely does in the opinion section), but that doesn't remotely balance the scales of the left leaning media.

You say the right will smear Hillary, but the fact is the left will smear the rights candidate. The difference is they will lie to do it. And they will bring into play every republican candidates religion whether this is remotely relevent to the campaign.

bryce2
See? this is where your argument falls apart.

If you knew anything about federal structure, you'd know that GWB couldn't just send in troops unilaterally. They have to be Requested by the state government. Blanco didn't do her job, but everyone wants to blame Bush. Nagin had 200 school busses sitting in a parking lot, but didn't use them to evacuate the city. Heck He had 3 days warning but didn't declare an evacuation until the storm was Hours away. The red cross and salvation army were both refused admittance to the superdome to bring food, because according to Nagin's city govt. it was only a "temporary shelter" Of course this is all bush's fault because it makes idiots feel better.

Can anyone explain to me why NOLA is still basically a shambles, yet Mississippi which actually took the full hit from katrina is back up and running already? Oh Yeah, maybe it's because Mississippi is a Red state.


NOLA is still a mess because after all this time the city planners there still don't have a Plan!
instead it's easier to blame Bush.


Robert: Hey Hal, let's go rent that movie with dan akroyd and rosie o'donnell,
she looks so hot in black leather!

Good traits?
Seven things to know about the Clintons: the seven deadly sins, which they've committed over and over and over . . . The seven are: lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy, and greed --and that's just Bill's good traits. Le'Chaim.

Clinton 08? Hill no!

On Katrina and FEMA
If a natural or man-made disaster occurs in my area and the local and state officials are overwhelmed, I will not be looking to Blanco or Nagin for assisitance, I will be looking to the Feds. Additionally, one the main reasons Homeland Security was created was to co-ordinate communications between agencies...this was cited as one the biggest first response failures after 9/11...and four years after the fact that was one of the biggest problems first responders to Katrina faced. This was a monumental failure on all levels, but the ultimate responsibility lies with Bush and Homeland Security.

"Conspiracies"
Cheney/Bush '08 writes: Thursday,
""Right-wing conspiracy? No, it's called Townhall.com and Faux News.

The Republican spin machine hasn't even cracked its knuckles over Hillary yet. When it does, the conspiracy will be in full effect with inaccuracies and flat out lies spread across the American media. Hillary was correct about Townhall and the rest of the right-wing propagandists.""

Yeah, you lefties see conspiracies everywhere, it's called Projecting. I suppose you're another of those useful idiots railing about the "Right wing conspiracy" that beat up Randi Rhoads huh?
It was all over the net that some shadow right wingers beat her up while walking her dog the other night. Turns out she tripped and fell on her face.

Kinda like Hillary is gonna do in the general election. :op


Robert: Then there was the time I was a paid Soros stooge...... Oh wait that's my current job!

Lefty Angle (Obtuse)
Is that the best ya got?
How can you hope to be a fully vested Soros troll with arguments like that?

""thats a great strategy you repubs/con have to defeat Sen. Clinton and the democrats in 08.
you know running behind them shouting:

COMMIE PINKO SOCIALIST ANTI-AMERICAN TRAITORS!!!

yeah, I/m sure that will work perfectly..rotflmao""

Gee i don't recall saying anythng about pinko commies and such, but you are right about the socialist part.

Anyone who thinks the woman who wrote "It Takes a Village" and recently said "I want to take us from George Bush's 'You're on your own' society, to a 'We're all in it Together' society" either is too dim to understand or is a closet socialist who is waiting for their government check.

Which are you angle?

And by the way, you should be really careful about laughing your "A" off, too much ofthat and you'll be completely brainless. And the perfect clinToon supporter. :op



Robert: Hey Hal, does your protractor have a Left angle on it? mine only has a Right angle!

Military Lovin' Nutjob
"CLinton agreed to the payout and disbarment to end the prosecution. he was never convicted of anything...."

You're right, but it's kind of hard to get a conviction when key witnesses keep turning up dead or opt for jail time rather than testify, knowing that they'll be pardoned and set for life after doing a year or two of soft time.

By the way MLD, you do know that the 'Salvation Army' isn't really a part of the U.S. Military? Please update your moniker accordingly.

Skep41...Love your posts. Keep'um coming. I think your uppercut on MLD at 1:01 stunned him. I didn't see a response.

Wow
" Hillary is given to what the historian Richard Hofstadter termed "The Paranoid Style in American Politics." In 1998, she famously claimed that a "vast right-wing conspiracy"

Right-wing conspiracy? No, it's called Townhall.com and Faux News.

The Republican spin machine hasn't even cracked its knuckles over Hillary yet. When it does, the conspiracy will be in full effect with inaccuracies and flat out lies spread across the American media. Hillary was correct about Townhall and the rest of the right-wing propagandists.

wildwest...
agreed...

We have a lot in common. I am told the same thing too.

And me being born on Halloween kind of explains a lot. So they say....


Did we finally get rid of Hal D? I haven't seen him in a few days. Unless he is steering clear of GunnyG and all the rest of the gang.

Robert apparently doesn't want to play anymore either.

Bman3
I am sorry that you misconstrued what I had to say
about your stepson's being in the ministry.

My message had nothing to do about him. My message
was that he certainly has his work cut out for him
because his dad is one of the most foul-mouthed
people on this website. I am completely amazed
that, if he was indeed raised by you, how he ever
got interested in the ministry.

I guess he decided to go and not do likewise.

This is just a guess but I'll bet you drink a whole
big bunch also.

Bman3
I am sorry that you misconstrued what I had to say
about your stepson's being in the ministry.

My message had nothing to do about him. My message
was that he certainly has his work cut out for him
because his dad is one of the most foul-mouthed
people on this website. I am completely amazed
that, if he was indeed raised by you, how he ever
got interested in the ministry.

I guess he decided to go and not do likewise.

This is just a guess but I'll bet you drink a whole
big bunch also.

Left Angle....
At least we now know that you know what the Clintons are...

You described them perfectly.


COMMIE PINKO SOCIALIST ANTI-AMERICAN TRAITORS!!!

So you know them personally do you?

renny
are you saying the official shoe of the Clinton campaign is the flip-flop?

and the official vest is the reversible model?

bman
actually I am glad you have a family member in bible school. At least one person is looking out for your soul. With someone on the inside to the bigman, so to speak, there still is hope for the redemption of your soul. My family always tells me they are watching out for my soul and they haven't given up hope for my salvation

Jackpine Savage
I know what you mean re: dial up. I still have dial up at home so at night it is almost useless. Especially when a thread gets up to a couple hundred posts.

Broadband isn't too good lately either. I have had TH go down on me several times today when refreshing...

They need to revamp the site and fix all the posting errors.


Bman3 writes:
Lumber, SSGT and jackpine
I go away for a few hours and ya'll jump ship from Coulter to here...


What happened to Rocky Jones? Did ya'll show up here and he left?


I've been bouncing between the two threads.

I've used Rocky Jones initials to rename him as Rocket J. Squirrel with deep apologies to the original and to Bullwinkle J. Moose.

Jackarse Savage: the new mccarthyism...
you stated:

"4 Years of socialism would be the end of the democrat party as we know it, because the pendulum would swing wildly to the right."

thats a great strategy you repubs/con have to defeat Sen. Clinton and the democrats in 08.
you know running behind them shouting:

COMMIE PINKO SOCIALIST ANTI-AMERICAN TRAITORS!!!

yeah, I/m sure that will work perfectly..rotflmao

NEWSFLASH
Rush's Letter is up to....


$500,100



How high do you think it will go???

Bman
Actually, I haven't been to the coulter thread yet. lol Been too busy fighting this stupid site trying to make a couple posts. Posting on TH lately requires Dedication, (especially for those of us still stuck in dialup hell)

Robert did a swoop and poop, and hasn't been back, guess he went off to greener pastures. Even shaggy has been largely neutered on this thread, since no one will bite when he dangles bait. Trolls hate it when we won't play their game. :op


Something REALLY Scary for halloween!
http://www.fundmental.com/funpages/flash/scary-hallo.php



Scaling Mt Everest!
Mr Tyrell does a good job of summarizing the proven facts about the Clintons, though their blind apologists still remain---to wit MLD. Our problem is that the electorate does not yet fully realize the danger of Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton back in the White House. Hillary has been working hard at changing her message and mien periodically to attract a core group. Now, I believe she's going grandmotherly and trying to attract Republican women.

It's not a 'right wing conspiracy' when clear-thinking people bring up worrying aspects of the Clinton's life and behavior. They have quite a past record, and they both should be in jail for the antics, lies, and illegal activities. We must continue to repeat all this until the 'wooden-headed Democrat lovers pay attention. And I just hope the main stream media will get off their asinine bandwagon and report the truth about her and the 'clear and present' danger of her in the White House.

Lemonade....
Haven't seen you in a long long time. The last time your piece of turd sh!t for brains was here you insulted my stepson for being in Bible school on his way to becoming an ordained minister at aged 19.

Then you took off like the typical scumbag cut & run liberal ahole that you are.

Do the world a favor and put on a blind fold, then see how many times you can cross the interstate without getting hit.

Maybe a buzzard will come and pick your sorry a$$$ up off the road one piece at a time.




lemonade
You know, if we weren't fighting for our very existence as a nation, I'd say, Let her Win.

4 Years of socialism would be the end of the democrat party as we know it, because the pendulum would swing wildly to the right.

Anyone ever notice, you don't see 2 dems in a row as president? After 4-8 years of dem rule the American people want to throw the bums out. The only hope the dems have is for us to either lose in Iraq (not likely, Or our economy needs to fall apart. (Somewhat more likely)

They can't possibly win on the merits of their policies, that's why the clinton slash and burn tactics are so necessary.

the only ones who would support socialist policies are either shiftless and want the govt. to care for them, or they dream that they'll be among the "apartchiks" who are exempt from the laws.


Friends don't let friends vote Democrat.

Lumber, SSGT and jackpine
I go away for a few hours and ya'll jump ship from Coulter to here...


What happened to Rocky Jones? Did ya'll show up here and he left?


Hold Your Fire!
Undoubtedly, there is no lack of dirt on both Klintons. Any one of the seven areas mentioned in the article should raise red-flags in the minds of reasonable citizens. However, presenting it too early in the campaign could backfire.

For one thing, the public quickly becomes desensitized to this type of information. If the GOP comes at the Klintons full-press, too soon, many people will mentality shut down (become jaded) and the shock effect will have worn off too early.

Another consideration of attacking too early is the left will have amble time to defuse the attack by inventing excuses for the Klintons that they can easily sell to dim-witted voters who would buy swamp land in Arkansas!

I say timing is everything. The GOP should do their research, gather up the ammo, and mostly sit tight; the other democratic contenders will take care of the light-work for now. If and when Hitlery wins the left’s nomination, the GOP should come at both Klintons relentlessly and with all the fiery of a firestorm!

http://klintons.com

Packrat writes:
Lumberjack
Dallas Cowboys haven't been in Dallas for a long time just like the NY giants haven't always been in NY, hell they're the NJ Giants just like the Dallas team is the Irving Cowboys.

At least Irving is in Dallas County, which Arlington is not.

Jackpine Savage writes:

I know how you feel Lumberjack
Remember, for years we got to watch the "Pontiac Lions" till they moved back to D-town.

Many years ago I went to a playoff game between Dallas and Detroit in the Cotton Bowl. The temperature ws around 5 degrees, and the final score matched the temperature, Dallas 5 detroit 0.

ummmm....
Just seven?

The Eighth thing to know - - -
Hillary is going to win.

Lumberjack
Dallas Cowboys haven't been in Dallas for a long time just like the NY giants haven't always been in NY, hell they're the NJ Giants just like the Dallas team is the Irving Cowboys.

I can remember the Texans and Cowboys spiltting the use of the Cotton Bowl because Dallas was an expansion team. ( Got in to see them as a high school football player for 50 cents, because they needed the numbers attendance wise.



I know how you feel Lumberjack
Remember, for years we got to watch the "Pontiac Lions" till they moved back to D-town.

re Clinton plea

CLinton agreed to the payout and disbarment to end the prosecution. he was never convicted of anything....

I beleive that is known as an Alford plea.
IE "
In the law of the United States, an Alford plea is a plea in criminal court. In this plea, the defendant does not admit the act and asserts innocence, but admits that sufficient evidence exists with which the prosecution could likely convince a judge or jury to find the defendant guilty. "

ssgt
i saw the morning line favored the redsox but there will be massive parties celebrating throughout the western reserve. While watching the games here in ariz. I put on my indians jersey and cap. But these pundits are unbelievable. They think that boston is coming back. As for colo. they are rated as superstars for keeping the light-hitting ariz to a total of 8 runs. Tribe bats are far more potent as they have proved in their two series. GO TRIBE

Packrat writes:
Packrat writes: Thursday, October, 18, 2007 3:02 PM
Lumberjack

Touche,

However that stadium will also be used by other teams in other seasons.

And they will pay through the nose for the privilege. Jerkoff Jones has already managed to steal the Cotton Bowl, wants Texas-OU, and ay other game he can steal. those losses will cost Dallas County and city tax revenue. The Cowboys should change their name in '09 to the Arlington Cowboys. Hell Arlington isn't even in Dallas County, its in Tarrant County.

#8
The 8th thing to know:

#8 Hillary Clinton is a criminal: Here's proof:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1912821/posts

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7007109937779036019 &pr=goog-sl

Note to Townhall
Fix the stupid site already!!!!

Lumberjack
Arguing with lefty angle is like wrestling with a pig. You end up covered in crap, and the pig likes it.

Remember, The people who say "Lying about a BJ" is nothing, are the same ones who want to Impeach GWB, for imaginary crimes.(no double standard there huh?)

Facts and laws don't matter to a true leftist, the ends justify the means.
Who cares if Hillary would have her own mom bumped off if she thought it would give her power. Lefties just want the power, it doesn't matter who or what they have to destroy to get and hold that power.


By the way, I've been collecting campaign pics from TH and other sources and made a slide show of selected pics with "word balloon" captions.
If anyone wants a giggle, check it out http://www.fundmental.com/funpages/politics/cslide1.php


Help control the Liberal population, please have your trolls spayed or neutered. (like MLD)

Go Tribe!
off topic. Hey Shaggy, where ya been. I've missed your sweet fun loving comments over the past few days. Hope all is well.
Tonight is it! Indians to the world series. Say it with me all

GO TRIBE!


Hal: I know I sank those German Submarines.
Roberto: They came two in a pack, pookie.

Lumberjack
Arguing with lefty angle is like wrestling with a pig. You end up covered in crap, and the pig likes it.

Remember, The people who say "Lying about a BJ" is nothing, are the same ones who want to Impeach GWB, for imaginary crimes.(no double standard there huh?)

Facts and laws don't matter to a true leftist, the ends justify the means.
Who cares if Hillary would have her own mom bumped off if she thought it would give her power. Lefties just want the power, it doesn't matter who or what they have to destroy to get and hold that power.


Help control the Liberal population, please have your trolls spayed or neutered. (like MLD)

Hillary's Iraq record
10/10/02 voted in support of resolution to use force in Iraq

2/22/05 Rejected idea for a date for withdrawal

12/2/05 Says time table would encourage terrorists

6/22/06 Votes”no” on Kerry amendment to redeploy troops from Iraq

8/7/06 Says she will not take friends’ advice and throw in the towel on Iraq

10/20/06 Advocates troop withdrawal

10/22/06 Regrets the way Bush used force

1/26/07 Voted to confirm Petraeus

2/21/07 Didn’t have all the facts when she voted in 2002

3/14/07 As pres. will end war

3/15/07 Votes “yes” for redeployment of troops from Iraq by 3/31/08

4/10/07 Votes against surge

6/3/07 Says vote in 2002 was a mistake

Says it is Bush’ war and not hers

7/23/07 Democrats have failed to win Rep. support for a withdrawal

9/23/07 If pres., would begin immediate troop withdrawal—NBC Meet the Press

Says to Stephanopolos she will not set timetables as pres—ABC This Week




Lumberjack

Touche,

However that stadium will also be used by other teams in other seasons.

Left Angle writes:
Petrovian & lumberjack
Petrovian:

Having future & former Presidents Clinton, Bill & Hillary BACK in the W.H. will do just fine thank you..lol

lumberjack:

if all you got to show is for all the hundreds of millions of dollars spent investigating the Clintons along with your convoluted list of their "crimes" is a plea agreement for "lying about a bj" then so be it because that bs is downright pathetic. lol


Two points:

First: I hope you can afford all the tax increases that the Wicked Witch of Chappaqua will lay on the U.S. I know, I can't

Second: Lying under oath is called perjury and obstruction of justice, and they are FELONIES.

Petrovian & lumberjack
Petrovian:

Having future & former Presidents Clinton, Bill & Hillary BACK in the W.H. will do just fine thank you..lol

lumberjack:

if all you got to show is for all the hundreds of millions of dollars spent investigating the Clintons along with your convoluted list of their "crimes" is a plea agreement for "lying about a bj" then so be it because that bs is downright pathetic. lol

Type of People who support Clintons
1. They are poor and are looking for a handout from the government nanny to take care of them.
2. They are elitists who want the poor and blacks to kill their unborn children to reduce the population of undesireables.
3. They are communists who want to take over the U.S.A. and plunder our wealth to create some type of Communist Utopia like Red China or the Soviet Union (except both failed miserably)
4. They are idiots and believe anything the MSM or the Democrats say, as long as the MSM or the Democrats pretend they want to help the poor or blacks or any other "favored" minority.

Sadly it appears 40% of the U.S. voters fall into one of the above groups.

Conservatives just need to encourage (not demoralize) hard-working taxpayers (grownups who don't want a Nanny State) to get out and vote if they want to win elections.



You're Wrong Jackpine!
You think unemployment will only be 8% under Hillary? Hah! European Socialists run for election promising to bring their nations 15-20% unemployment rates DOWN to 8%-- a promise they are never able to keep. The U-Hauls will once again be readily available in Michigan because there will be nowhere to move to and no one will have enough money to rent one. BTW,all these Michiganders and Jerseyites move to Red States and then continue voting Democratic, moving us all into the Socialist dumpster eventually.

PS Who pays Lib Trolls to write dumb comments on TH?
Cant they find people who are at least literate?

wildwest
Yeah, the republicans are getting a boost from the democrats over the primary date change. Dems have decided to "punish" us by not campaigning here.
The republicans have doubled their efforts. :op

It's sickening to see what "Democrat Principles" have done to Detroit and Michigan. Under the evil republican Engler, Michigan's economy was the model for the country. Anyone who wanted a job had one.
Welfare was cut in more than half, Able bodied adults without kids were booted from the rolls, and forced to try working for a living. (Most found they enjoyed it) Welfare became the Safety Net it was supposed to be. Not the Lifestyle that's it's becoming again under granholm.

Of course, Detroit is the largest voting block in the state, and detroit schools are graduating only 20% of their incoming freshmen. so that means Granholm will have a ready made base of Idiots who will follow her anywhere as long as the checks keep coming.

If detroit seceeded from the state, MI would be a Red state.


By the way, I've been collecting campaign pics from TH and other sources and made a slide show of selected pics with "word balloon" captions.
If anyone wants a giggle, check it out http://www.fundmental.com/funpages/politics/cslide1.php



Robert:
Back when I was a general in WW2, hal and I used to like blowing up german soldiers.
Hal inflated them better than me though.

wildwest
Yeah, the republicans are getting a boost from the democrats over the primary date change. Dems have decided to "punish" us by not campaigning here.
The republicans have doubled their efforts. :op

It's sickening to see what "Democrat Principles" have done to Detroit and Michigan. Under the evil republican Engler, Michigan's economy was the model for the country. Anyone who wanted a job had one.
Welfare was cut in more than half, Able bodied adults without kids were booted from the rolls, and forced to try working for a living. (Most found they enjoyed it) Welfare became the Safety Net it was supposed to be. Not the Lifestyle that's it's becoming again under granholm.

Of course, Detroit is the largest voting block in the state, and detroit schools are graduating only 20% of their incoming freshmen. so that means Granholm will have a ready made base of Idiots who will follow her anywhere as long as the checks keep coming.

If detroit seceeded from the state, MI would be a Red state.


By the way, I've been collecting campaign pics from TH and other sources and made a slide show of selected pics with "word balloon" captions.
If anyone wants a giggle, check it out http://www.fundmental.com/funpages/politics/cslide1.php



Robert:
Back when I was a general in WW2, hal and I used to like blowing up german soldiers.
Hal inflated them better than me though.

RockyJones
No Rocky, you don't care, because to "not care" supports your side.

Katrina is a perfect example of how things get twisted around to blame Bush. How come the mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Louisiana (both democrats) aren't held to that standard? Bush made a largely political mistake in taking the blame for Katrina, but the truth is that Governor Blanco should have asked for federal assistance much sooner than she did. That is how things work in a republic. The states are individually responsible but can request federal assistance. The federal government (FEMA) will not go in without this request.

Now, I am not absolving the federal government of culpability. They moved too slow and didn't do a great job, but given the commentary on this topic, my point is that ALL democrats want us to remember is Bush screwed up absolving the democratic mayor and governor of their responsibility. The fact is they were MORE responsible for the aftermath of Katrina than Bush.

Left angle
"Since leaving office Bill Clinton has been raking in MILLIONS
in income and remains highly respected & popular in political cirles, around the world and most importantly with the american public. Sen. Clinton is the front runner to win not only the POTUS".

=========

Maybe the Left should appoint the Clintons as Caesar and Queen because it seems they worship the pair.


On lies
There is no question that lies/misrepresentations happen on both sides of the aisle. They are politicians after all.

The difference is that the lies espoused by democrats about republicans or liberals about conservatives is that this view is latched onto on television (either news or just tv shows/movies) and pushed forward as fact. What happens then is that the dem/libs will point out the exceptions where the reverse is true as if this balances the scales.

Left Angle writes:
The Clintons have never been indicted, convicted or jailed for a single crime on your convoluted
list of their "crimes and scandals"

So what was Wee Willie Weinie Wagger (WWWW) disbarred for five years and fined $500,000 for?

Packrat writes:
Please Lumberjack


Jerry Jones spends his own money, Bill and Hillary are experts at spending other's money.

The temple to Jerry Jones in Arlington, aka Cowboys Stadium is being financed by a sales tax in Arlington.

the baron: a response
as far as I am concerned R. Emmit Tyrell is a sham artist. He was paid millions by Sciafe to dig up dirt on the Clintons and destroy them.

Despite his best efforts and the millions spent
by Repubs/Cons, it appears you FAILED MISERABLY..

The Clintons have never been indicted, convicted or jailed for a single crime on your convoluted
list of their "crimes and scandals" (lying about a bj? get real.. thats pathetic). Since leaving office Bill Clinton has been raking in MILLIONS
in income and remains highly respected & popular in political cirles, around the world and most importantly with the american public. Sen. Clinton is the front runner to win not only the
Democratic prez nomination but also the POTUS.

That sucks doesnt it? maybe you can explain this phenomenon..lmao

About Bush as a liar and a thief
If I am not mistaken, about 5-10% of Americans still believe that Elvis Presley is still alive.

So, it is not a surprise if more than 10% of American voters still believe, deeply, that Bush stole the 2000 election and that he has lied about the war. In fact, I would say the number is probably somewhat around 30% of the voters, where majority of them of course are liberal democrats.

The notion that American voters are smart is just the same as saying American kids are smart. Some of them yes, but about 40% of them are close to dumb.

I am not saying that all liberal democrats are dumb, but those who still believe that Bush stole the 2000 elections, despite the overwhelming evidence to show the opposite, are really beyond repair--mentally.

So, there you go. To win the elections, you just have to do TWO things:

1. Maintain your base.
2. Appeal to the independent voters.


jackpine
there have been reports that michigasn might be in play for the repubs thanks to your incompetant canadian import gov. But I thought that when she was pushing her plans to turn michigan into a tech state were going to assure everyones financial future. What happened? It wasn't that long ago the dims were crying tears tears your gov was from canada and thus barred from running for president. My guess is that many in mich wish she were a native born so she might have ambitions to leave your state. My wife and I graduated from Wayne State. We visited after 30 years and couldn't believe how much detroit has deteriorated. I guess the dims are the visionaries they tell themselves they are

jmind
this past weekend after alldull got the nobel prize, the peanut man, jimmah carter claimed that gore should be president now as he won the florida vote count but had the electoral votes taken away. This must be true. The former president said it was. Or am I to believe that carter is suffering from the effects of senility and can't keep his facts straight

If she doesn't have Obama hit first
The press treats her tenderly because of "Dead men don't talk"--that you can google--and all the mysterious deaths connected to the Clintons.

Of the 50, all about to testify or be arrested or perhaps volunteer something to the law,

17 died of gun wounds (some supposedly self inflicted);
odds of being killed by shot 1 in 5,134

8 died in plane or helicopter crashes;
odds 1 in 5,051

6 died in car crashes;
odds only 1 in 237

6 deaths were labeled "mysterious" or unresolved.

ANY death by injury has odd of 1 in 1,755.

Other deaths of people close to the Clintons include one suspected poisoning, one bludgeoning; one stabbing; one drowning; one skiing accident; one pneumonia; two heart attacks.

Since car accident deaths are so common (almost 50,000 annually) and heart is the number one cause of the most deaths annually, you'd think many more of the Clintons' friends would've died in cars or hospital wards.

As the preferred method is evidently a shot to the head or small aircraft crash, I'd guess reporters don't ask really tough questions of the Mrs. as they value their lives the more highly.



MikeR
said " We are at war; national security is at stake. Our country has massive domestic issues and you are saying homosexuals are an actually issue. "

You'd be surprised, or maybe not, how little most people know about politics and what's going on in this world. They pick up little bits here and there, but in all, they just nod and go along with what the MSM tells them.

Can you see Hillary in this part?

Mrs. Iselin: [to her husband] I keep telling you not to think! You're very, very good at a great many things, but thinking, hon', just simply isn't one of them.



Vision of America's Future
Want to know what the USA will look like under Hillary? Take a good look at Michigan. Our governor and Hillary are cut from the same socialist cloth.

Vote for Hillary and you too can have an 8% unemployment rate.

You too can have business leaving in droves.

You too can have you citizens leaving so fast that the hardest thing to find in Michigan right now is a U-haul truck.

You too can have crippling tax hike following crippling tax hike.

You too could have your president threaten to shut down the country if she doesn't get the newest tax hike she wants. (our weak kneed republicans caved, and she got her hike)

Michigan is going through what's being called a One State Recession. You could have one too, just vote Hillary in '08.

Want to see something Really scary?
http://www.fundmental.com/funpages/flash/scary-hallo.php



Robert: Hal I shaved shaggy's butt like you asked, but he refuses to walk backward!

Military Lovin' Dogg
Here are some of the lies about Bush that have been proven false, but still are bandied about by the left as if they are fact:

Bush stole the election: The Supreme Court did nothing to "give" the election to Bush. They simply stopped the endless counts from holding up the process. Gore asked to have only the votes in the heavily democrat counties to be re-counted. The real lie here is that all votes are ALWAYS counted eventually in an election. It is simply that they can't get them all tallied on election day. When ALL votes had been tallied Bush one the election. He did not win the popular vote, but that has nothing to do with the electoral college.

Bush lied us into war: EVERY western intelligence agency believed Saddam had WMD. Even if Bush COULD pressure the CIA, he couldn't pressure Spain, the UK, Russia etc etc.

The left keeps propping up lies. The Clinton's are corrupt. Bush is not my favorite president because he can't express himself well, but he has more integrity in his left pinky than both Clinton's have combined.

The Clinton's whine about the "Right Wing Conpiracy", meanwhile the above lies are repeat ad nauseum by every left wing group out there.

THE PROBLEM IS NOT ABOUT THE CLINTONS
You can describe the Clintons as bad as you want. The problem is not them. Almost 40% of the voters don't like Republicans, and about 50% of them really hate conservative values.

Here, the challenge is, how can you be appealing to independent voters. At the same time, how can you be appealing to your base?

So far, the Republicans have no clue. They are being knocked down by the bully Democrat-controlled Congress, the Media and the far-left.

And, who are the great benefactor? The Clintons!


you know
I’ve never believed that Hillary stood a chance of being elected until now. Somehow, the fever pitch of the column and the thread gives me this weird feeling that Hillary really is going to be the next president. She’ll have Obama as her VP for life insurance.

Please don't feed the Trolls
For those of you unaware, Military Hating Puppy is a paid troll sent here to derail the conversation. He's also known as NYCDogg among others, Most of us just cal him shaggy.

Arguing with him will only get him off. If you talk trash about him, he enjoys it. The best way to deal with trolls like MLD is just ignore him, it will drive him Nutz.


Robert: What is the sound of One Hand Clapping?
Shaggy, I know, but Hal yells at me when I do it on the rug.

Elliot Yudenfriend
Are you serious? You neighbor was going to vote for Kerry until she found out that Mrs. Kerry supported homosexuality and that was the deciding issue? Now you tell us to do all we can to stop Hillary because she hung out with some gays and transvestites? We are at war; national security is at stake. Our country has massive domestic issues and you are saying homosexuals are an actually issue.

Dogg
I see that you are one lying dog.
You're just repeating those lies of the anti-Bush campaign, not one of which has ever been proven.
What a really low down dog you must be indeed.

Military Lovin Dog, Which Military?
It cant be the US military, held in contempt and targeted for more deep cuts by your beloved Clinton Crime Family. Oh, I get it! The Red Chinese Military are avid Clinton contributors and they LOVE to serve roast Dogg on Thursdays for dinner.

Keeping Hillary OUT of the White House
Any conservative knows the tremendous importance of keeping Hillary Clinton OUT of the White House. Here is one of the BEST things that can be done to help accomplish that. Create and circulate widely a website with the address hillarysrecord.org or hillarysrecord.net and on it, show, at a glance, just how Hillary Clinton has voted as a Senator and what she has done since before she even became First Lady under Bill Clinton. Have her voting record somehow linked to the Congressional Record site so people can know they are seeing the truth. Why is it so important to create such a website and to alert as many voters as possible to it? Because the average voter today simply DOES NOT HAVE TIME to do necessary research about the candidates before voting. In 2004, my neighbor across the street was going to vote for John Kerry UNTIL I proved to him that Mrs. Kerry, as First Lady, had sworn to do everything she possibly could to advance the cause of homosexual activists. That changed his mind. I expect few people are aware that Hillary Clinton was THE featured guest speaker at the first homosexual/lesbia/transvestite/transgender fundraiser. But there are videos of her speaking at that gathering that could be put on hillarysrecord.org. I DON'T HAVE THE TIME OR EXPERTISE to put up and to maintain such a site. I hope YOU DO! There is no doubt that the Democrats will try to lie and to misrepresent themselves in 2008, just as they always do. hillarysrecord.org or hillarysrecord.net would go far to disspell and disprove the lies and to make voters aware of who Hillary Clinton really is and what she really stands for. I hope you or someone you know will get such a website going NOW. Thank you kindly. Elliot Yudenfriend

the clintons part 2
for further discussion check out jeffrey lords column in the american spectator.org from this past tuesday. Lords discussion of what the clinton's distructive policies will mean for the missus clinton should she get elected reveals what the clintons might reap from the seeds they have sown.

And there is this
8. The Presidential party was convoyed to the 50th commemoration of the landing at Normandy in military ships. Clinton and his party stole most of the towels and other items from the ships they travelled in, on the way across the pond. This was told to me by a military man who knew someone who was there and saw it. Not only was he a draft dodger, but he slapped the military in the face on the way to representing the country at the scene of their finest hour.

the clintons
the left continually accuse the bush asministration of taking liberties with the constitution but the real enemies of our way of life are the clinton's. These two pathetic losers who have somehow charmed the left into believing the eigth years under bubba were free of global strife and tremendous financial growth for america. The public forgets the efforts of the clintons to destroy their imagined enemies, the excesses in the white house and the divisive brand of politics they practiced. Should the missus clinton gull enough people and get elected everyone will see how she deals with critisism. To critisize the clinton's will be akin to treason. The clinton's history has long been one one loyalists who are easily cast off or sacrificed to save the cintons and everyone else who is the enemy. The missus clinton is by far the worst in this regard. If she has tantrums with underlings over trivial matters it does not bode well for any who either can't deliver her programs or in some other way fail to meet her expectations of how she thinks she must remake america to suit her image of what this country should be

No one proved Tyrrell wrong yet
Leftangle, OK, so there is financial backing to efforts to find and publicize stories about the Clintons' lack of scruples. You offer no information to prove that the Clintons aren't exactly what Tyrrell, and others, say they are, with information to back up what they say.

In fact, none of the posters so far who disagree with Tyrrell have offered any information to prove that what he says is untrue.

Instead, they have offered only innuendo and name-calling, in the best tradition of the Left's philosophical grandparents, Nazism and Bolshevism. That is precisely what a Goebbels or a Trotsky would do. If you have no facts, then just smear your opponent.

Hillary delenda est.

Imagine
With all we know about the Clintons and more, and how hungry and motivated Hillary is, just imagine this country run by her for the next 8 years.

Our paychecks will be her own personal piggy bank, we will have lost our freedom of choice and eventually, our will to stop her.

Rudy, despite what some of you may think of him, has the ability to verbally beat the snot out of her at the debates. Hillary is a dirty low down megalomaniac, and I don't see any of our GoP with the nuts and the firing power to take her down and humiliate her during any debates. She fears no one, except for Rudy.


Please Lumberjack


Jerry Jones spends his own money, Bill and Hillary are experts at spending other's money.

Seven Tips For R.E. Tyrell
Some of us Vast Right Wing Conspiracy footsoldiers are worried that a Hilly victory next year would put you, our guru, in some jeopardy. Here are a few tips to help you through the next eight years:

1. Avoid travel to Red China, fogbound mountains in Croatia and Ft. Marcy Park.
2. Prepare for a REALLY intense tax audit.
3. Keep your cat indoors.
4. Avoid any purchases of real estate in Toronto in case Hilly's hair-trigger temper is touched off by a certain Labor Party official's running her fingers through BJ's hair and she hits the nuke button.
5. Stay healthy. VRWC members will inevitably be subjected to impenetrable bureaucratic hurtles to receive even an aspirin under HillaryCare. And that goes double for you as the founder.
6. Make sure the fire insurance at the American Spectator is paid up.
7. Find out where OBL is hiding and rent the cave next door. A flat in Tehran might do as well. No missles will be aimed at you in either case.

MLD

Here is a story about Hillary that I know to be true.

When she went to Afganastan in 2003 to "visit" the troops from 10th Mountain Division. she said quote "After our first dinner, General Austin
joined us for our flight to the U.S. military
base in Kandahar, Afghanistan, the home of
the 2nd Brigade, 22nd Infantry of the 10th
Mountain Division. When we arrived, I lined
up for our second Thanksgiving dinner.
Again, I sat at a table with 10th Mountain
division soldiers and other soldiers who
call New York home."

The picture accompaning the aarticle has maybe 20 soldiers at the table. It is my understanding that they were "volunteered" to sit at the senator's table.

truthspotlight writes:
So -- how 'bout them Clintons, huh?

They are just like another snake oil salesman from Arkansas, Jerry Jones.

All made up stuff, huh?
Well, let's just imagine for a moment reading this sort of thing about Pres. Bush. . . . . . .

Not gonna happen is it? Oddly, this sort of stuff has followed the Clintons from their time as Gov & Co-Gov of Arkansas. Don't recall reading one-tenth of garbage like this about George Bush from his governorship of Texas.

And trust me -- if the liberal press and other left-attackers thought they could get away with it, we'd have been inundated with falsities about Bush by now. Sorry - it just isn't there.

So -- how 'bout them Clintons, huh?

Blackmail explains Bill Clinton's succes
Probably the best investment a criminal could make would be to pay for arrangements that would net compromising pictures of a district attorney or an attorney general. Attorney general is by far the better of the two because then you own the law enforcement of an entire state. An attorney general is the most powerful judge in any state. If the attorney general says there aren't enough witnesses or there are legal problems and dismisses charges against organized criminals there is a huge amount of money to be made. When have you ever heard of an Attorney General being prosecuted for this? Where mystery begins, justice ends, totally.

How easy it was to figure out what kind of woman Bill was attracted to after the second drink. How easy in some of the small towns where he campaigned without Hillary at his side? How easy to predict that he would hang out at he same hotel bar he hung out at last time he was in town. After the second drink he actually thinks its he who is initiating the conversation with the cute blond. It’s his lucky night; she has a room in the hotel (all wired for media). No fumbling in a car this time. And a hotel room is more private not like being in a car.

Bill's absolutely worst day was when he met the MAN, his new owner and trainer. The MAN showed him the stills, maybe even the movie of Bill's butt bouncing around on the bed. Bill's absolute best day was when he realized that incredibly powerful organizations trusted him absolutely now and these very powerful people now had a vested interest in his career. Many of his enumerable enemies as well as witnesses against him just seemed to disappear. Many conveniently became victims of "suicide" (128 by last count). Organized Crime flourished in Arkansas as never before. And Bill followed through to the end of his Presidency pardoning several big time criminals as his last act as President.

Blackmail explains Bill Clinton's succes
Probably the best investment a criminal could make would be to pay for arrangements that would net compromising pictures of a district attorney or an attorney general. Attorney general is by far the better of the two because then you own the law enforcement of an entire state. An attorney general is the most powerful judge in any state. If the attorney general says there aren't enough witnesses or there are legal problems and dismisses charges against organized criminals there is a huge amount of money to be made. When have you ever heard of an Attorney General being prosecuted for this? Where mystery begins, justice ends, totally.

How easy it was to figure out what kind of woman Bill was attracted to after the second drink. How easy in some of the small towns where he campaigned without Hillary at his side? How easy to predict that he would hang out at he same hotel bar he hung out at last time he was in town. After the second drink he actually thinks its he who is initiating the conversation with the cute blond. It’s his lucky night; she has a room in the hotel (all wired for media). No fumbling in a car this time. And a hotel room is more private not like being in a car.

Bill's absolutely worst day was when he met the MAN, his new owner and trainer. The MAN showed him the stills, maybe even the movie of Bill's butt bouncing around on the bed. Bill's absolute best day was when he realized that incredibly powerful organizations trusted him absolutely now and these very powerful people now had a vested interest in his career. Many of his enumerable enemies as well as witnesses against him just seemed to disappear. Many conveniently became victims of "suicide" (128 by last count). Organized Crime flourished in Arkansas as never before. And Bill followed through to the end of his Presidency pardoning several big time criminals as his last act as President.

uber
Contrary to your delusions, Reagan was never in the the Christian fundamentalists' camp. But you are correct in that the Republican Party needs to return to Lincoln-Teddy Roosevelt-Reagan principles of individualism, freedom, liberty and limited government. In this sense, Giuliani is actually a Republican traditionalist.

R.Emmit Tyrell & The Arkansas Project
"The Arkansas Project:

Is the general name of a series of investigations (mostly funded by billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife) that were designed to damage and end the presidency of Bill Clinton.

Scaife gave $1.8 million dollars "to unearth damaging information about President Clinton." Some reports and investigations connected to this project focused on questions about the suicide of Vincent Foster, the Clintons' investment in Whitewater, and Troopergate.

Like many political magazines of differing ideologies, in the 1980s and 1990s the conservative "American Spectator" received donations from like-minded benefactors who supported its mission. One of the Spectator's larger donors over the years was Richard Mellon Scaife, a businessman who directed a number of foundations funded with his family's wealth, through which he could support his causes. At first, donations from Scaife to the Spectator were unrestricted, but later, Scaife wanted to direct some of the spending for stories investigating the Clintons.

According to R. Emmett Tyrrell Jr., editor in chief of the Spectator, the idea for investigating the Clintons was born on a fishing trip on the Chesapeake Bay in the fall of 1993. David Brock, who reported many of the Clinton scandals, described himself as a Republican "hitman" who "soon became a lead figure in the drive to" get Clinton. Writing for the American Spectator, he brought the stories of alleged sexual misbehavior by Bill and Hillary Clinton into the public notice in late 1993.[3] The Pacific Research Institute funded further attempts to discredit the Clintons. The "Arkansas Project" name that later became famous was conceived as a joke; the actual name within the Spectator and between the Spectator and Scaife foundations was the "Editorial Improvement Project."


Google Elena Ceausescu!!
What is the difference between Hillary's methods and the methods used by the Communists to take over a large chunk of Asia and Europe in the early to mid 20th century? What is the difference between Hillary and the self-styled "Mother of Romania" who brutalized that country for a quarter century? How quickly we forget!

Dogg says that...
"Emmet Tyrell was one of the main mud slingers of the Bill Clinton years - his credibility is zero."

His list is documented; you need more than your biased opinion to refute him...we're waiting!

Rudy needs to win in 2008
There are two great reasons Rudy need to win in 2008.

1. Rudy is the lesser of two evils.

2. A rudy victory will let religious conservatives know that the Republican part is once again the Party of Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt.

It's time to purge the party of Reaganite conservatives and reunite the Republican party with it's Liberal tradition.

The seven things
can be boiled down to one.

The Clintons are as crooked as a dog's hind legs.

5 Stars! This needs to be plastered on
bilboards and in every newspaper (that is not ruled by the commies) every day until they are in jail where they belong!

Strategy
I think the GOP will do much better if it takes her on about the issues rather than the scandals. It should be obvious by now they have perfected how to do these things while making their critics seem unhinged.
She is weak on the issues and why would the GOP want to give her an excuse to dodge those issues with the "politics of personal destruction mantra"?

Liberals Idiots
MLD is doing the typical lefty thing: attack the messenger and hope no one notices that the message was valid. Their tactics are sooooo pathetic and tiresome.

Thanks for the reminders, ET.

Clinton X 2
Please Dems nominate Hillary. It will be a fun day for the rest of us to finally end her and Bill's political careers.

The Clintons
Are, Have Been and ALWAYS WILL BE Lying, Cheating, Gutless, Liberal, Cowards! This has been documented REPEATEDLY and AT LENGTH over the YEARS! Yet, right away in these comments, you have a Liberal Moron defending the indefensible. Liars, Cheats and Cowards. The Democrat Leadership in 2007.

MLD
Are you telling us that you believe that the Clintons are saints and that every story told about them doing anything unethical or immoral is a lie? I guess that the Secret Service just made up stories about Hillary's abusive tendencies. It must not be true that Hillary required military personel to avoid any eye contact with her. Bill's former chief of staff fibbed when he told of him and Bill sitting in a room rewriting speeches into Bill's handwriting.

Wow! Alert the Cardinals in Rome - Bill should be the next Pope! Mother Theresa move aside, there is a new Saint...Saint Hillary!

Liars, cheats
The Clintons have been, are, and always will be liars and ambitious cheats. I think that's part of their 'appeal' -- they're a live soap opera in prime time. If Hillary wins the presidency, this country will be rewarded with the concommitant decline, decadence and debauchery so many Americans seem to revel in. Le'Chaim.

Annoy a liberal: Smoke 'em if you've got 'em

Bill, Hillary and conservative "silence"
I hope that Hillary gets the presidential nomination from the Dems. THEN, it's time to go after her with both barrels. Rudy gave us a taste with his recent "experience" comments. This was a soft jab compared to the body blows to come. The last thing I want to see is Obama as the Democratic nominee....His lack of a record is the best thing going for him.

Reminders
The world needs columns and news reports like this. Most of us live busy lives and tend to forget just how despicible these people are.

Don't worry about Hillary after her nomination she will be 'swift boated' from so many sides she will not be able to respond quickly enough to to do effective damage control. This brings to mind a picture of a Juliani-Clinton mud slinging contest....HOLY COW!!!
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