Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Tuesday, April 14, 2009
Ed Feulner :: Townhall.com Columnist
Battle for the Border
by Ed Feulner
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Almost two years ago I visited southern California to watch the U.S. Border Patrol at work. The federal government was building a fence and, with help from the National Guard, federal agents were stepping up patrols and slowing the flow of illegal aliens across our southern border.

But in homeland defense, as in politics, there are no permanent victories. Most illegal migration is now happening further east. With portions of the California border fenced off, smugglers are moving people and drugs through Arizona.

Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has taken some good first steps. DHS is redeploying more than 360 additional officers and agents, most to the border and some to Mexico itself. Washington will also send more technology to the border, including biometric identification equipment to help catch crossers coming north, and mobile X-ray units to recover cash and weapons headed south.

Perhaps most important are eight additional Law Enforcement Tactical Centers, where the Border Patrol shares information with local law enforcement. That’s critical.

Partnering with locals is “one of the fastest, most effective and most cost-effective ways to get more assets into the border war right now,” wrote James Carafano, a fellow in national security at The Heritage Foundation, after his own recent trip to the border. “It is going to take an integrated federal-state-and-local law enforcement effort to beat the cartels on this side of the border, and we have to make the locals a stronger part of that team.”

The good news is that local sheriff’s deputies have made a dent in drug smuggling. With closer cooperation from Washington, they say they could make a real difference, and perhaps even start to roll up the cartel organizations north of the border.

But while Napolitano has taken a step forward, she’s also taken a step back.

According to The Washington Post, she “has delayed a series of proposed immigration raids and other enforcement actions at U.S. workplaces in recent weeks, asking agents in her department to apply more scrutiny to the selection and investigation of targets as well as the timing of raids.” That’s a mistake.

The Bush administration didn’t get serious about cracking down on illegal immigration and illegal workers until the last two years. The laxness of those early years proved that when the feds mostly shrug at border breaches and undocumented workers, it only gives aliens a larger incentive to enter the country.

After all, once they’re across the border, there’s virtually no chance they’ll be caught and deported. In fact, roughly a third of the illegal immigrants in the U.S. are people who came here with temporary visas but never left. Interior law enforce­ment is the only way to remove them.

Instead of backing away from the tentative Bush approach, DHS ought to increase workplace enforcement. Federal officials need to work more with state and local govern­ments to put in place mechanisms such as “E-verify,” a system that can ensure employers aren’t hiring illegal immigrants and can crack down on those already living here illegally.

Finally, the federal government can slow the tide by helping countries in Latin America develop healthier economies. That way, our southern neighbors wouldn’t feel compelled to leave home. As for Mexico specifically, the U.S. needs to help its government battle the drug cartels that are trying to destabilize it. The drug war on our southern border is a true war, one that Mexico cannot afford to lose.

Enforcement makes a real difference. The number of illegal aliens in the U.S. is dropping, partly because of the economy, but also because of enforcement. Now is not the time to back off.

The threats to Homeland Security have changed over the years. America’s approach to protecting itself must change as well. Securing the border and upholding the rule of law are a big part of that.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Dr. Edwin Feulner is president of The Heritage Foundation, a Townhall.com Gold Partner, and co-author of Getting America Right: The True Conservative Values Our Nation Needs Today .
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read Ed Feulner's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
Yes.....agreed...
"Interior law enforce­ment is the only way to remove them."

been saying it for years....remove everyone of them....

What is the real agenda?
the Border Problem can be solved, but what is the political agenda that stand in the way. The Bush Administration did some really weird things and now the Obama Administration is rattling the sabres of American gun control. No one is taking a stand where it really counts on how to deal with our open borders. There are things here that just don't add up and it smells a lot like politics as usual. the Elite who have a special interest in the final outcome are silent but yet very present--review the events of the Bush era and the Border Patrol Agents that went to prison on trumped up charges and whom were not pardoned when one should have beeen given.

What is the agenda that we all will be saddled with forever?

Silver lion
It works alot better if Napolotano doesn't make them let 27 illegals go and issue them work permits. This was reported in FAIRs newsletter last week also that she ordered an investigation into the officers. sounds likethe two borderguards all over again. In this weeks newsletter, they announced that Obamas people would begin to push legislation for amnesty for all the estimated illegals in the U.S. now how can they even consider this option when so many American citizens are out of work? Sounds like it time to start calling and e-mailing again. It worked once!

Shoot
They used to shoot these people when they were crossing the river. I think that was a fairly efficient, cost effective to stop illegal invasion.

Nappy update
In the Arizona Republic, Janet is now saying she is only sending 100 more agents to the border. As she did with the Guard she sent there, they probably won't be armed and will only do vehicle maintenence. More Washington slight of hand.

Federal efforts at border a success
Several presidents and a majority of congress have wanted open borders, which has let in everyone from terrorists to drug Mafioso to plain old rapists and murderers, and so therefore they have been stunningly successful at keeping the borders open, while making diversionary moves to look like they are doing the opposite. To take one example, some of the 9/11 hijackers were here illegally, which should be seen as a resounding success for open-border politicians who had been warned about this for years, and even now still try to thwart border enforcement and drag us toward our open grave of yet another monster amnesty.
- - -
Border Enforcement + Immigration Moratorium = Job, Crime & Eco Sanity

I agree with KATZ--
I agree 100% that we need to iron out everyone of these parasites that crosses the border. As we conservatives all know, Peso George probably never met an illegal he didn't like. If he would have right after 9-11, closed all borders and ports and deported all illegals permanently and imprisoned all of their enablers we would not have this massive problem now. But no, he pandered to their prez and his ilk. Barry O. had best get the message that the legal US citizens are tired of these criminals and their anchor rats who expect everything and offer nothing. If they want to protest, do it in their own country and demand rights from their own politicians. Come here and you are a criminal!!! Hey lib rats, Tooooooo Baaaad.
If Barry wants to bring up another shamnesty, then he should deport himself to their country and take p-lousy and the prune reid with him.
IMO.

Termanology
The United States Border Patrol works between the ports of entry. Their title is Border Patrol Agent. People that work at the ports of entry are called Officer. It is simple, if you want to sound like you know what you are talking about, at least get their titles correct.

As for the debate, the reason illegal immigration is down can be based on a few factors. First, illegal aliens (not undocumented workers, undocumented immigrants)are not returning to Mexico as they once did in the past. You could always count on seeing the full cars and trucks southbound in December. Those same people would make the trek back north in February through June. Ever wonder why? Sure some has to do with the fact that there is more infrastructure and more agents, but the promise of amnesty keeps them here. Just ask them. Second, in Arizona specifically, the Cartel(s) owns the border. Nothing crosses without paying them, therefore, less alien smuggling takes place and more drug smuggling. Hence the reason that seziures are up over 30% this year over last. Check the numbers. Great illegal aliens are down, but narcotics are through the roof.

Agents do the best job they can, but without people supporting them, it is difficult to keep focused on the mission. Who wants to be the agent that writes the case law to stop interior enforcement? Under this new administration (and previous) who knows?

I disagree with helping Mexico
against the drug cartels. We have done that in the past and looked down the barrels of our own guns being pointed at us after the cartels did the tricks WE taught the Mexican Army!!

((Marc)) I believe you are quite correct in your assessment of why the illegal aliens do not return home. They got amnesty in 84 and are looking for a repeat of it either last year, this year or next year - it will come (Unless, God willing, we can stop it.)

the facile myth of the fence cost
One of the egregious, red herring canards about building the border fence is the projected cost and supposed lack of effectiveness. POPPYCOCK! Ask Israel whether a good fence works.

What will REALLY be staggering are the colossal socio-economic costs associated with the tsunami of ignorant, indigent ILLEGAL aliens if their invasion is not stanched and reversed via attritive repatriation following REAL enforcement of EXISTING laws.

For several billion AT MOST, we could have an impenetrable fence. Presidente Jorge Bush finally acceded to the CLEAR will of the people and instructed that the fence be constructed, and progress was rapidly being made, but the Chosen One and the left have killed it-- because ILLEGALS are leftist voters in waiting.

Your federal government spends billions of your tax $ A DAY! Worse still perhaps, it is paying for its profligate ways by borrowing WAY TOO MUCH and printing $, even as global companies outsource your jobs overseas.

Your government is substantially squandering $3 TRILLION all-in (per TIME) on Iraq because some neoCONS around Presidente Jorge (Wolfowitz, Perle, Abrams, Libby, Wurmser... and buddies Kristol, May, Ledeen, Gaffney, Krauthammer) wanted permanent bases there to protect Israel... the REAL reason we took out Saddam, who was a secular ENEMY of Osama.

For what we spend in a few DAYS on Iraq, we could have a border fence that would last like the Pyramids! And BOY would it FINALLY send a different message to the millions of largely ignorant indigent who want to milk America for its currently unprotected bounty. The corrupt Mexican guvment INSTRUCTS border jumpers on how to milk America and send it back.

it is EASY to contact Congress
and support tougher enforcement... and fight stealth amnesty like the Dream Act.

You can reach Congress easily and free at their official sites right here:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

BOOKMARK it, and contact them early and often! They love hearing from you! Their people DO note the public humor--> that is how we stopped Kennedy-McCain Scamnesty despite the Conspiracy Of Evil.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

(sample e-mail I just sent)

Senator Hutchison:

You are reportedly on the fence about the resurrected "Dream Act."

You have shown wisdom on other issues...I urge you to OPPOSE the Dream Act, which would give free college tuition and a path to citizenship to ILLEGAL aliens.

There should be NO REWARDS WHATSOEVER for being in America ILLEGALLY-- PERIOD!

We should INSTEAD simply enforce our existing laws, which would lead to attritive repatriation with minimum deportation expense.

No jobs, no freebies-- no stay!

We should welcome ONLY LEGAL immigrants, who should offer education and skills America can use. In contrast, most ILLEGAL aliens will inexorably become HUGE net drains socio-economically.

As a border state senator, you are surely cognizant of the myriad social pathologies which are typical with ILLEGAL aliens. Many states have had to pass local measures to resist the insidious negatives foisted upon them by ILLEGAL aliens.

Thanks for considering my viewpoint. We appreciate your service to America.

Respectfully yours,

John Q. Citizen

College Faculty, Business and Economics

the Chosen One vis-a-vis amnesty
(from news source below)

The president-elect of the United States, Barack Obama, committed to president Felipe Calderón to achieve a comprehensive immigration reform that includes family unification.

Calderon said that despite the obstacles and difficulties that exist in Congress and in U.S. public opinion, Obama is committed to advancing the implementation of immigration law for all, without exception, which addresses the situation of Mexicans already in the United States.

In this respect, Obama said his government will review the raids on undocumented, because he wants to ensure that the policy work "in a humane manner."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblog...o_immigrat.asp

support E-verify and the SAVE Act

Even as Mexican drug cartels are spreading their virulent violence over here, and ILLEGAL alien labor continues pirating jobs that Americans will DEFINITELY do, and milking American social services, the ObaMessiah and the left have stopped construction of the fence. Why?!

Because those are future big entitlement government 'Çrat voters crashing the border!

While America does need SOME educated, skilled LEGAL immigrant labor, the so-called "cheap" labor (the largely ignorant, indigent ILLEGAL aliens) are REALLY egregiously expensive all-in to America.

Your hotel room and Tyson Chicken is no cheaper to YOU, but YOU get stuck with the tab for the myriad social services they will prey upon and the pandemic social pathologies (crimes, barrio blight, drugs, gangs, illegitimacies, dropouts, cultural disparateness) ILLEGAL aliens pervade like a scourge of locusts.

Get engaged, folks!!! Insist that Congress require E-verify and pass the SAVE Act. You can EASILY reach them at their official sites right here:

http://www.congressmerge.com/

BOOKMARK it and contact them OFTEN! They love hearing from you!

The SAVE Act was introduced by Democrat Heath Shuler... it too merits your support.

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/enforcement/workplace-ver ification.html
http://proprietornation.blogspot.com/2007/10/save-act-follo w-up.html
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/issues.html
http://www.house.gov/list/speech/ca50_bilbray/March_14_2008 _Washington_Times_Save_the_SAVE_Act.html

ask them in Arizona
re:
"Enforcement makes a real difference. The number of illegal aliens in the U.S. is dropping, partly because of the economy, but also because of enforcement. Now is not the time to back off."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Arizona is the state most plagued with the ILLEGAL alien invasion. In 2006, its fed-up population with about half of the legal Hispanic vote, Az. passed multiple laws (with >70% voter approval) cracking down on ILLEGAL aliens. Those laws took effect in January.

Guess what is happening? ILLEGAL aliens are packing up and leaving, many back to Mexico at their expense-- the SAME way they came.

Enforcement DOES work! The problem has been lack of enforcement due to a Conspiracy Of Evil (see post to follow).

Presidente Jorge Bush and the open border NAU Chamber crowd believed in so-called "cheap" labor... the left simply wants those new voters and future guvment dependents from which their power and hegemony is derived.

Middle America must fight for itself by DEMANDING that the politicians not sell us out for their power and $.

the Conspiracy Of Evil

The greatest challenge to stopping ILLEGAL aliens is that the money and organization (hence power) is mainly on the other side. The pro-ILLEGAL forces include an unlikely, strange bedfellow alliance between groups which want to USE them in different ways--> the Conspiracy Of Evil.

Miscreant employers simply want to exploit their labor-- screw the myriad egregious socio-economic problems they foist on America. The PC left wants to get them voting and seize permanent control for the leftist "elites" via big entitlement government.

The scandal-plagued Catholic Church needs bodies for the pews; and ILLEGALS can put more in the collection plates in America than in Mexico.

Ethnocentric Hispanic groups really do want an effective Reconquista, so they hide behind claims of racism and pleas for PC multiculturalism and one world kumbaya.

Finally, the remote elites, including the liberal MSM, do not see what all the fuss is about. Besides, they LIKE their cheap ILLEGAL maids and yard-workers, and THEIR kids will not have to go to schools enervated by "those people."

MOST of America is understandably righteously indignant about ILLEGAL aliens invading America, pervading and permeating pandemic social pathologies (violent crimes, gangs, drugs, illegitimacies, dropouts, barrio blight, social service enervation, willful cultural disparateness):

Per TIME magazine, fully 89% of Americans think that ILLEGAL immigration is a SERIOUS problem --> 30% "extremely serious," 33% "very serious," and 26% "somewhat serious."

See how YOU can get involved to save YOUR country at my posts below. America would be a terrible thing to lose! Time is short!

BLOCKADING SOMALIA,IRAN & TAKING A STAND
The President has to start showing gumption and Somalia is the place to start as it is more than just a haven for pirates but for radical Moslems in bed with Iran. While we cannot invade Somalia as head of an international force, as I naively proposed, we can, as others are suggesting, blockade Somalia's ports from which the pirates launch their attacks and Islamo-nazi terrorists operate. This will serve as a warning to Iran that blockading their ports and the economic strangulatuion of their country could be next. Obama should go to the UN and propose a Somali blockade and failing that he should then do what George Bush did in Iraq: organize a coalition of the willing.France, Britain, Poland, whoever will join to protect the high seas and rid them of the pirate scourge.........

Click my name and read the rest of this piece.

The Socialist
Party leaders,(Obama,Pelosi & Reid) want illegals counted in the census. Then amnesty will be given followed by voting rights for those that have been here the required number of yrs.

Then the State Run Media will tell us that 90% of them have been here for many yrs.

Anyone want to bet against that?

what Middle America believes
Recent polling on ILLEGAL immigration by the highly respected Rasmussen Report revealed these opinions about how Middle America views the ILLEGAL alien incursion (quoted verbatim):

* By a 63% to 28% margin, voters continue to believe it is more important to gain control of the border than to resolve the status of those who are already in the country ILLEGALLY.

* 73% say police should check to see if traffic violators are in the country illegally... 62% believe that such violators should then be deported.

* 77% of American adults do NOT think ILLEGAL immigrants should be allowed to receive a driver's license.

* Survey data have consistently shown that on immigration reform voters are PRIMARILY concerned with enforcing the border and reducing the future flow of ILLEGAL immigrants.

The "comprehensive" reform considered in the Senate last year was very unpopular precisely because voters did NOT believe it would reduce ILLEGAL immigration. (In fact, a plurality of voters thought the legislation would lead to an increase in ILLEGAL immigration).

More recently, voters opposed another Senate legislative proposal, the Dream Act (which would have given college tuition assistance to ILLEGALS, and then led to citizenship), and believed it would attract more ILLEGAL immigrants in the future.

Rasmussen Summary:
Collectively, these data suggest that the desire of MOST Americans to gain control of the border is part of a broader desire to protect American culture.

Citizenship for illegals?
I almost regurgitate my meal every time I hear one of those left wing libs talk about, "Well, we have to bring those poor people out of the shadows and provide them a pathway to citizenship". Illegal aliens couldn't care less about "citizenship". All they're interested in is a paycheck that they can send back to their home country. Which brings up another counterpoint to the libs who say, "Well those people are contributing to our economy". B.S.!!!
If the illegal aliens were "contributing" to the economy of the United States, how do the libs explain the 30 BILLION dollars in remittances that the Mexican illegals send back home? Seems to me they're "contributing" to Mexico's economy, not the U.S. economy.

What we really need is another "Sheriff Joe Arpaio" in charge of Homeland Security. I'm sure Janet Napolitano could probably get a job as a lobbyist for La Raza or one of those other open borders activist groups.

We the people
are too damn MEEK.

Just a handful of anti smoking people in this country can lie & lie & lie about the effects of smoking and tell 51,000,000 people where they can & cannot smoke.
Any honest doctor will tell you second hand smoke is NOT harmful, but these extremists and State Run Media are stacking the deck.
Note: I have talked to several doctors and they have all stated, second hand smoke is not harmful.

So why don't we have a anti-illegal group doing some footwork and get rid of the illegals, and their allies in the media could help.

inconvenient ILLEGAL alien stats- part 1

Since 2000 an estimated 10 to 12 million immigrants have arrived, representing the highest seven-year period of immigration in U.S. history BY FAR. If immigration were to continue at this rate, the nation's population would increase from 301 million today to 468 million in 2060, a 56% increase.

One in eight U.S. residents is now foreign born-- an ILLEGAL alien or a legal immigrant-- almost 40 million.

Research on the impact this is having on the U.S. economy reveals that Americans are spending between $11 and $22 billion on welfare to ILLEGAL aliens each year by state governments. Of this, $2.2 billion a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps and free school lunches.

An estimated $2.5 billion a year is spent on Medicaid for ILLEGALS. The demands on American hospitals have forced some to close emergency rooms as ILLEGAL ALIENS crowd them and the law requires their care despite their inability to pay for it.

Approximately $12 billion is spent on primary and secondary school education for children that are here ILLEGALLY, many of whom cannot speak English.

It costs Americans $3 million a day to incarcerate illegal aliens, and 30% of all federal prison inmates are ILLEGAL ALIENS. The crime rates of ILLEGAL aliens are estimated to be 2.5x higher than native-born Americans for crimes that include illicit drugs, rape and murder.

Native-born Americans are losing an estimated $200 billion in wages that have been driven down by the influx of ILLEGAL aliens. This particularly hurts minorities and the young seeking employment.

Meanwhile over the past five years ILLEGAL aliens sent home remittances estimated to be between $25 and $45 billion to their countries of origin.

inconvenient ILLEGAL alien stats- part 2

We are arguably at a critical moment in our nation's history when a moratorium on virtually all immigration is needed. We have had such a moratorium in the past following the vast immigration of the late 1800s and early 1900s.

At that earlier time (about 100 years ago), America needed immigrants to help build the nation's infrastructure and participate in its industrial growth, and we could absorb the ignorant and poor.

Things are very different today, as we have progressed to an advanced service economy calling mainly for educated, skilled workers-- NOT the often ignorant, indigent, culturally disparate flooding across the border and willfully overstaying visas-- ALL committing felonies to work here and seek social services.

What America needs now is a period of stabilization and a period in which to
reduce the population of ILLEGAL aliens through attritive repatriation, and to temper the entry of legal immigrants to confirm desirable assimilation, lest the melting pot go into meltdown.

If we do not, we risk so overburdening our economy, our schools, and our health and justice systems that we will do grievous harm to present and future generations of all Americans.

Mexico's #1 export to U.S. ? -- CRIME !

There are MANY things inherently wrong with tolerating the ILLEGAL alien invasion and pervasion of America, but the most basic must surely be the crime, drugs, and gangs which go with them like jelly with PB.

The PC ilk tries to obfuscate the realities, but people all over America simply KNOW better. When you see your community sullied, it is impossible to accept the facile apologia trying to tell you not to believe your lying eyes.

States which initially granted them drivers' licenses like N.C. had to pull back on that because of the rampant, pernicious crime waves and gangs which followed.

States like Az. and Ok. are now seeing an exodus after passing tough anti-ILLEGAL enforcement laws, but the ILLEGALS so far simply move on to where it is easier to get along-- like "sanctuary cities" where the administrations are in the pockets of the ILLEGAL employers/Chamber lobbies.

The ONLY solution is to resolve to enforce EXISTING laws everywhere. When ILLEGALS realize that there are no ILLEGAL jobs or freebies, they will repatriate at THEIR expense-- the very same way they came. So much for this red herring straw man challenge: we cannot deport 12 million!

This is not to say that many ILLEGALS are not otherwise basically decent, law-abiding people, but EVERY ILLEGAL who works here is not just border crashing or violating a visa-- s/he is by definition committing multiple felonies (typically identity fraud and tax dodging at a minimum) just to work... and inexorably, they foist egregious socio-economic burdens on the areas they pervade (crime, drugs, gangs, illegitimacies, dropouts, barrio blight, bilingual "education," and social service enervation/decimation).


why the complicity by government...

... in aiding and abetting the ILLEGAL alien incursion?

Many have wondered why pols at all levels of govt. could so blatantly ignore the law and common sense to accommodate ILLEGALS (see sanctuary cities, support for scamnesty, etc.). The answers are: MONEY and power!

Here in Georgia, our 2 U.S. senators had been influenced by $ from miscreant employers of ILLEGAL aliens such as chicken pluckers and meat processors. Our senators had seemed to be riding the fence on the issue. They and others had listened to the artful and beguiling myths about ILLEGAL aliens, "simply doing jobs Americans would not do."

But myriad Georgians got engaged and made CLEAR that we did not like being the fastest-growing ILLEGAL alien state. We got our 2 U.S. Senators to vote against Kennedy-McCain scamnesty and the Dream Act (which would have rewarded college-age ILLEGALS with subsidized tuition and a path to citizenship).

We also got our state legislature to crack down on ILLEGALS pervading Ga. and plaguing her with social pathologies-- just like N.C., Ok, Az., Ms., Mo., and other states have had to do.

The best group to help YOU save YOUR country and YOUR state is NumbersUSA. Several honest U.S. Senators said that this group was most responsible for derailing Kennedy-McCain. BOOKMARK THEIR ADDRESS HERE:

http://www.numbersusa.com

They have all sorts of reference sources and prepared subject-specific, targeted e-mails for you to send to members of Congress.

You can also e-mail or call your reps in Congress right here at their official sites... tell them that you support the SAVE Act and oppose ANY attempts at scamnesty. Heck, contact lots of folks (not just your reps) in Congress!

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/issues.html

Get engaged, folks! America would be a TERRIBLE thing to lose! YOU can help save YOUR country!

E-Verify
I only want to make clear a misconception that E-Verify will eliminate the majority of illegals in the work place. I retired after almost 29 years as a Senior Border Patrol Agent and as a Investigator for the old INS. By participating in numerous Sanctions and investigations of employers who had hired illegals, the only positive and accurate means of detecting fraudulent documents used in the work place was for an officer to actually view said documents. This is why interior enforcement is so critical in the effort to stem the tide of illegals. Without the jobs available to them, their numbers will go down. Now for E-Verify. E-Verify will only provide a match or no match to ones Name and Social Security Number. Fraudulent document manufactures are aware that USCIS will submit only the Resident Alien Card Number (A Number) through the Index System, and the name and social securtiy number. The number of illegals that other officers and myself have encountered using fraudulent Resident Alien Cards and Social Security Cards with valid information is beyond belief. Stolen identity, or in some cases through our investigations, sold identity, provide the necessary information for an illegal to pass the test. In one case, an illegal that I arrested using fraudulent documents, the name, "A" number on the resident alien card, and social security number were valid. That individual was not the rightful owner. Nor were 13 other individuals who were using the same social security number throughout the U.S. during the same quarter of 2001. The sanctions must continue, which begins with an actual view by a USICE/Border Patrol Agents of the employee and the documents that he is using to obtain employment.

Folks, Folks, Folks...
I agree that enforcement is the key to resolve the immigration issue. BUT, enforcement should include identifying those who HIRE illegals and punishing them for harboring criminals. If the illegals can't find work NO REASON to stay here, and believe me, plenty of people who want to come here legally.

Obama will now FIX immigration
I just saw recently that Obama has now decided immigration reform with be a priority for his administration.

I'm losing track. Let's see: he's going to triple the national debt, fix health care, bring us clean renewable energy, fix education, and...oh yeah...he's going to cure cancer too.
Now he's also going to fix immigration. Pretty tall order for a bureaucracy that can't even deliver the mail.

IMO 10-15 yrs from now we'll have a massive national debt which will force extraordinary cuts in everything from medicaire to basic govt services. And we will have very little to show for it. We'll still have a failed K-12 school system, will still be addicted to arab oil, and will have a vastly more complex and costly health care system. But that's OK. The real goal of Obama is a vast transfer of wealth/power from the individual to the fedl govt (i.e. socialism). All the rest of the stuff is secondary to him.

how ILLEGAL aliens see things

Below was a recent post here about how ILLEGAL aliens view their incursion into America, which has been aided and abetted by open border NAU quislings like Presidente Jorge Bush, Amnesty John McCain and the Chamber lobbies-- and by the big entitlement guvment voter-seeking left like the ObaMessiah:

(slight editing below for clarity)

**********************************************
(post from a Mexifornia resident)

My Take-->

I have many Hispanic friends, and I speak enough Spanish to understand practically all of what I hear. This is what I have found:

Mexicans truly believe that California and much of the U.S. western states were wrongly taken from Mexico. This is THEIR land-- their ancestors were here first, and some can trace their ancestry back to before their land was taken away. Hence, the Reconquista (re-taking, or re-conquering) agenda.

Mexican ILLEGALS truly believe that the U.S. liberals stupidly passed the laws that give them all the freebies: free health care, zero will to enforce immigration laws (cannot ask a Hispanic person for immigration status), and others... and all those laws are there for them. If not for them, then why were they passed?!

The also know that their rate of having children is far greater than that of Anglos. They understand that it is only a matter of time before they become the majority of the voting populace because they are willing to have children.

eltoro
Reply # 2
Date: Apr 14, 2009 - 10:54 AM EST
I agree with your post, and i would add that the criminal element coming in is related to the American drug problem. If we would stop hiring cheap labor and stop taking illegal drugs, a lot of this problem would go away.

I do blame capitalism for hiring the cheapest labor so I can buy the cheapest vegetables/widgets. I am to blame for the Illegal immigrant problem.

The Obama/Pelosi/ liberal administration will give illegals everything they want except citizenship, because they WANT to establish that citizenship in America is no longer necessary. They are using the illegal immigrant population as a tool to break US sovereignty. They will use them to appeal to international courts. Liberals don't respect the constitution and US laws, they want to break those down. Illegals are perfect for accomplishing their goals. Our only hope is making Illegals legitimate in some way...everify, whatever...

I really take issue with lumping the whole Latino community into the same pot with Latino criminals. It doesn't advance the conversation.

The worst part is that liberals will destroy the Latino family.

reply to: C.H.
re:
"I really take issue with lumping the whole Latino community into the same pot with Latino criminals. It doesn't advance the conversation."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Agree... I have a German surname, but I darn sure feel no guilt for the Holocaust-- my colonial paternal great grandfather came here from Germany in 1750!

It is also artfully presumptuous and erroneous to assume that getting tough on ILLEGAL aliens (about 20% of who are not even Hispanic... they are visa violators-- such as the perps of the 9/11 tragedy) will alienate Hispanic-Americans. As I noted earlier, about half of LEGAL Hispanic-Americans voted for TOUGH new anti-ILLEGAL alien enforcement sanctions in Az. in 2006.

Middle class and long established Hispanic-Americans ALSO object to the socio-economic plagues fostered and permeated by ILLEGAL aliens.


KATZ
"They used to shoot these people when they were crossing the river."

Really? When. Mexicans have been crossing that river--north and south--since it became the border in 1848. The Rio Grande Valley is neither really American or Mexican, but a distinct cultural blend of both.

SVARA
"If he would have right after 9-11, closed all borders and ports and deported all illegals permanently and imprisoned all of their enablers we would not have this massive problem now."

Close all the borders and ports? And what about all the goods both outgoing and incoming, what effect would that have on the US economy? Deport all illegals? Sure, at the rate the US was deporting people only take 300 years or so. Even today, take more than 50 years and that assumes no new illegals enter and you deport on;y illegals. Illegals have due process rights as well. Be a long and expensive process.

"But no, he pandered to their prez and his ilk. Barry O. had best get the message that the legal US citizens are tired of these criminals and their anchor rats who expect everything and offer nothing."

anchor rats? You mean US citizens?


"If they want to protest, do it in their own country and demand rights from their own politicians. Come here and you are a criminal!!!"

Illegal entry is illegal, but illegal aliens have many of the same protections offered by the US Constitution as you do.

"If Barry wants to bring up another shamnesty, then he should deport himself to their country and take p-lousy and the prune reid with him.
IMO."

Bet on a "amnesty" bill of some sort if not in 2009, by 2011.

Oracle
"Below was a recent post here about how ILLEGAL aliens view their incursion into America..."

No. It is the claims of a non-illegal how illegals see things. First, there is no way to verify his claims and second, he is not a spokesperson for the illegal community.


oracle
"It is also artfully presumptuous and erroneous to assume that getting tough on ILLEGAL aliens (about 20% of who are not even Hispanic... they are visa violators-- such as the perps of the 9/11 tragedy) will alienate Hispanic-Americans. As I noted earlier, about half of LEGAL Hispanic-Americans voted for TOUGH new anti-ILLEGAL alien enforcement sanctions in Az. in 2006."

You may want to note the Hispanic support for the GOP in 2000 and 2002 and 2004 and then again in 2006 and 2008. The majority of Hispanics supported McCain-Kennedy and it isn't just calling for support for immigration enforcement but the hate-filled rhetoric as you see here calling for the shooting of border crossers and calling US ciitzens born to illegals anchor rats.

oracle1
You sound rational, but most people aren't regarding illegals. We have an administration that won't waste a crisis. If fact, they will fuel a crisis into a conflagration.

I'm sure that it is true that most middle class Hispanic Americans object to socio-economic plagues permeated by illegal aliens. It's presumptuous to think that we won't eventually offend them if we haven't already. They seem like the people we should be talking to about the problem. Maybe they have insights that we aren't seeing.

We created the problem. We need to be honorable and find a solution without disparaging the whole community.

I am not Hispanic. I'm just an American mutt born from immigrants.

a myth about why Amnesty John lost

Some bray that Amnesty John McCain lost in large part because he got only 1/3 of the Hispanic vote, allegedly because Republicans had been seen as tough on amnesty.

Some math-- Hispanics to date have constituted 9% of the vote. If Amnesty John got 3 of that 9, he would have gotten only 4 if he had stayed at quisling Dubya levels.

MUCH more to the point, Amnesty John LOST too much of the still 75% white vote, partly because he had CLEARLY favored amnesty. Even he himself ruefully admitted, "I got America's message" (too late, however).

Almost 50% of LEGAL Hispanic-Americans in Az. voted for tough new anti-ILLEGAL alien laws in 2006, including clamping down on miscreant employers and social service decimation.

When given a choice, Americans prefer enforcement and attritive repatriation BY FAR to any paths to amnesty. This is NOT xenophobia-- it is righteous angst about socio-economic reality---> amnesty makes us the welfare department for Latin America's poor and ignorant at IMMENSE expense.

Today's America instead truly needs EDUCATED, SKILLED, LEGAL immigrants-- just as sensible nations require-- and our policy does officially.

ILLEGAL aliens are for the most part simply HUGE net drains on resources all-in---> $1.4 million per family over a lifetime, and amnesty for 12 million would mean 100 million new poor and largely ignorant over the next 20 years per Heritage.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm

Joel
"Automatic "Birthright Citizenship" has to stop! Citizenship should be earned, preferably by military service..."

You have posted this tripe before. End jus soli? I think the 14th Amendment would have issues with that. Good luck getting the Congress to narrow the terms of the 14th, a president to sign it and a court to uphold it. You could amend the Constitution and eliminate that clause in the 14th...good luck with that too.

"No more work or student visas, either. If a foreigner wants to come here, they need to do so with the intention of becoming a citizen. No sending money back "home", the U.S. becomes your home. No split loyalties, no traveling back. Come here, earn citizenship, and be loyal. Enjoy the liberty of being an American."

Again I think the courts would have issues with this. See Schneider v. Rusk (1964). As for no student visas, what on earth would be the justification for that? So no Americans at Oxford, Beida, Todai, etc too?





C.H.
" If we would stop hiring cheap labor and stop taking illegal drugs, a lot of this problem would go away."

If you had a rational guest worker program and a rational drug policy much of this problem would go away too.


Not to nitpick...
but I did find this statement to be ridiculous...

"Finally, the federal government can slow the tide by helping countries in Latin America develop healthier economies."

Come again? We're broke, we're going down the road to socialism ourselves, and yet somehow we're supposed to develop healthier economies in Latin America as a preventive measure against illegals. Why don't we just worry about ourselves and do things that are in our self interest instead of worrying about the world so much.

In my opinion virtually 100% of our effort to control our borders should be focused on employment -- as in making sure that illegals can't get jobs. That means workplace raids, that means criminal prosecution of employers. No jobs = no money = no reason to stay. No fence needed and a lot fewer resources needed for deportation and legal costs -- the illegals deport themselves.

the myth of conservative values

ILLEGAL immigration is not truly a wedge issue. Over 70% of Americans favor tougher enforcement vis-a-vis ILLEGAL aliens... RINOS/CINOS like Amnesty John McCain and Presidente Jorge tried to do the Faustian thing and get both Hispanic votes and miscreant employer lobby $, but all they did was alienate Middle America.

Some of us are not "xenophobic nativists," but simply prescient-- only the myopic would not see that "cheap" ILLEGAL labor will be neither cheap nor vote conservative when the left makes them voters-- BUT they will remain here as new citizens voting for big entitlement govt., and their myriad pandemic, concomitant socio-economic ills will become entrenched and snowballing ad infinitum.

Many Middle Americans are fine with LEGAL immigration of the educated and skilled who can become net contributors, but not with becoming the welfare state for Latin America's poor and ignorant.

The reason that Hispanics vote about 2:1 for 'Crats is that they are more likely to be poor and undereducated. This is why the left wants to make voters of 12-20 million ILLEGALS, who are mostly Hispanic and would assure the hegemony of the left in perpetuity, because they would morph into 60-100 million net new Hispanics here over the next 20 years per Heritage.

oracle
McCain lost Nevada, New Mexico and Colorado--all with large Hispanic communities. To be precise, McCain lost Nevada because he lost Clark County which is 22% Hispanic. In 2004, Bush lost Clark 52-47 and with the rural white counties voting for Bush 70 and 80%, it was enough to overcome the numbers in Clark. In 2008, McCain lost Clark 58-39, the numbers too large to be off set by the rural north. If Bush had lost Nevada in 2000, Gore would have been presidnet. If Bush had lost Nevada, New Mexico and Colorado, Kerry would now I suppose be in his second term.

Hispanics overall are still small in numbers (this will not be the case 40 years from now when they'll make up nearly 1/3 of the population), but they are key in a number of now purple states like Nevada. It would not have made a difference if McCain had carried those three states--Obama's victory was just too large, but in a close election? Clark county could make the difference between victory and defeat. And Clark becomes more Latino every day.

agree with Sammy
We CANNOT afford to try to help correct the almost endless socio-economic problems in Latin America, where corruption and quasi-socialism were accepted by the voters there. Furthermore, it is superciliously presumptuous that we should imagine that we might.

The left is already determined to revamp America into a permanent big guvment welfare state... we had better smell the coffee about their agenda, including scamnesty as a fundamental part of it. ILLEGALS will vote before amnesty-- voting will be the key for the left.

RINO Dubya/Presidente Jorge is to blame for setting the table for them by embracing ILLEGALS and allowing the neoCONS to manipulate him into the wrong war against the wrong Islamics. He so stunk things up that America voted for a change alright, not really realizing what it meant to elect an unknown Chicago neighborhood organizer who had already been the single most liberal among 100 Senators-- but the MSM was not going to dwell on that!

oracle
It's all been said a billion times.

When Harrisburg, PA tried to stop landlords from renting to illegals the ACLU charged in to stop them.

It's very expensive to fight the ACLU. We have an administration that wants international law and sovereignty.

Citizenship is the only way we can all win. Then if the police arrest a latino they won't fear international law breathing down their neck, as in the case of the border patrol agents who shot the drug runner.

The beauty of America is that you can have the same rights and freedoms whether your ancestors came here on the Mayflower or you became a citizen yesterday.

Most Hispanics love God, love their families, and work hard. They are an asset not a curse. If they are allowed to become citizens they will pay taxes and help pay for what they are using.

I take the blame and so should you. I wanted cheap vegetables. It's my fault they are here. I gave them a reason to come.

Now that they are here we have to find a solution that everyone can live with and stop the sanctimonious lectures. We are to blame for wanting cheap products and drugs. We're in a stalemate because we can't admit that we allowed it.


Oracle 1 is correct--
We who live in these border states and we here found out last year that we are, in this town, listed as a sanctuary city along with Dallas, Ft. Worth, Austin and Houston. So we see on a regular basis the results of our sleazy sell-out politicians and what they have not done to enforce the illegal alien crisis. The idiots that feel compasion and sympathy for these illegal criminals will pay a terrible price if these illegals and their anchor rats are not deported soon. i.e. taxes up and up due to more schools needed, medical costs up, ask any ER person in a SW city, bilingual teachers etc., food stamps, wick, and the most glaring of all is the drain, yes serious drain on our natural resources in this country.
The know nothing libs that want to argue this must either be masochists or completely stupid IMO.

reply to: Akagi
re:
"Hispanics overall are still small in numbers (this will not be the case 40 years from now when they'll make up nearly 1/3 of the population), but they are key in a number of now purple states like Nevada. It would not have made a difference if McCain had carried those three states--Obama's victory was just too large, but in a close election?"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Thanks for proving one my points... there can be NO QUESTION that current ILLEGALS will vote OVERWHELMINGLY for big entitlement guvment-- if I were ignorant and poor, I would do the same.

This is also why Latin America votes in socialists and then becomes victimized by them-- just like the inner-city poor here electing the left which passes "the brown paper bag test" who enrich themselves administering to the "poor people." (see Revrunds Jessuh, Al, and Jeremiah Wright and Mayor Ray Nagin)

The time for Middle America to save itself from the enervating statist guvment which has ruined Europe, N.Z, etc., is VERY short-- stopping ILLEGALS from enfranchisement and citizenship will be ESSENTIAL.

How To Solve A Problem
Ask yourself this very simple question. What is the goal? What level of illegal immigration is acceptable, because that is the real issue. It is not possible to stop ALL illegals from entering this country, so by defintion there will always be some illegals in this country, so what number is an acceptable number?

Second question you should ask yourself, would there be people bringing in illegal drugs, if there was no market for these drugs in the United States? Again, has any country been able to stop the trade in ANY elicit movement and sale of goods, when there is a demand for those goods?

why do "sanctuary cities" exist?

Svara mentioned sanctuary cities in Texas...

When the ILLEGAL alien employer lobbies buy the right pols, we end up with "sanctuary cities"-- polities willfully violating federal and state laws, and common sense and decency, so taxpayers/citizens can subsidize miscreant employers with "cheap" labor whose all-in costs to society will prove staggering and enervating/crippling.

The ILLEGAL aliens come like bugs to a light-- it makes sense from THEIR perspective when they can earn 10x what they can in Mexico, whose corrupt government instructs them on how to exploit America... how to tap into welfare, especially upon pushing out an "anchor baby"-- the magic ticket.

When our citizens become aware of the scams at hand, as with Kennedy-McAmnesty last year or the Dream Act (which would have given ILLEGALS college tuition money and led to citizenship) in 2008, the body politic becomes righteously indignant and roils at Congress and other quisling pols.

But the Conspiracy Of Evil represents moneyed, determined forces which want to use ILLEGALS for different self-aggrandizing ends, though ILLEGALS are inimical to the best socio-economic interests of the great majority, and to America as a nation.

See further posts below with more details and ways that YOU can get involved to save YOUR country-- there is still a LITTLE time. We MUST keep after the pols at ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT to stop the limited special interests from selling out America for self-enrichment/advancement.

oracle
I don't feel like I own freedom. It's a gift that was given to me. It's a gift that should be given to as many people as possible. I'm talking about freedom not handouts...the chance to build a better life for yourself.

If we can import freedom to Iraq and give aid to other countries, why can't we help the Hispanics who are already here?

C.H.
I like the way you initially try to influence by feigning the same frustrations that the rest of us feel. Then of course you take your left turn and essentially try to tell us that it's all a fait acompli and we're just better off accepting this unfortunate circumstance and making the best of things.

Get this through your head, immigrants (legal and otherwise) that are poor and uneducated (which encompases the majority of them) simply are net tax money receivers rather than tax money contributors in a social welfare state such as the modern United States -- that's why they vote for Democrats when eventually given the chance. Legalizing the illegals won't change any of that. In fact, an argument could easily be made that they cost us less overall as illegals then they will once they are given amnesty.

Why is it our duty to sanctify their lawlessness and "bring them out of the shadows"? Even if they never return home, I would much prefer that the illegals live with the indignity of "illegal alien" that they so richly deserve.

None
"Again, has any country been able to stop the trade in ANY elicit movement and sale of goods, when there is a demand for those goods?"

Singapore and Malaysia do a good job at stopping illegal drugs--they hang those who are seen as traffickers. Of course in the US, the SCOTUS will not allowed such executions to be carried out (see Coker v. Georgia; Kennedy v. LA).

Sammy
"Get this through your head, immigrants (legal and otherwise) that are poor and uneducated (which encompases the majority of them) simply are net tax money receivers rather than tax money contributors in a social welfare state such as the modern United States -- that's why they vote for Democrats when eventually given the chance."

Most legal immigrants are neither poor nor uneducated. The costs involved to legally immigrate to the US as well as asset requirements shuts out all but the solid middle class and rich from immigration outside of say mail-order brides and the like. The two most common professions for a Taiwanese immigrant are college professor and business-owner.


you got conned, C.H.!
re:
"I take the blame and so should you. I wanted cheap vegetables. It's my fault they are here. I gave them a reason to come."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The miscreant employers of ILLEGAL aliens are POCKETING the savings! Your hotel room, lettuce, and Tyson chicken is NO cheaper to YOU! When they raid an Armour meat plant, Americans return to their jobs in a couple of days! Migrant workers for ag harvesting and 15-20 million ILLEGALS are totally different issues.

And no, it is not my fault either that the drug addicts create a demand for those... for a modest amount of $, we could seal the damm border and REALLY check and stanch what comes in. Does anyone imagine that drugs are being carried in the backpacks of ILLEGAL aliens?

A very little of the ObaMessiah's/the left's "blame America first" tripe goes way too far!

Similarly, the "we cannot deport 12 million" strawman false problem is also hackneyed and disingenuous to the max.

Sammy
It's better to fight North Korea, Iran and Al Quaida than it is to fight pregnant latino women who want the best for their children. Choose your battles wisely. You may need those babies someday to fight on your behalf defending your freedom.

"Cheap" Vegetables
Sorry, C.H. I accept none of the blame. Those "cheap" vegetables are really not so cheap afterall. It's really just like the old Midas commercial, "You can pay me now or you can pay me later". Those "cheap" vegetables might be cheaper up front due to the illegals but by the time you figure in the back end costs such as the money it takes to provide "free" healthcare, education, billingual services, cultural accomodation, incarcertation, etc. those "cheap" vegetables are a helluva lot more expensive than they would otherwise would be had they been fully produced by native labor being paid the true cost it takes to produce this product.

Oracle
"Does anyone imagine that drugs are being carried in the backpacks of ILLEGAL aliens?"

Some are in fact brought in on the backs of illegals.

charity begins at home
re:
I don't feel like I own freedom. It's a gift that was given to me. It's a gift that should be given to as many people as possible. I'm talking about freedom not handouts...the chance to build a better life for yourself.

If we can import freedom to Iraq and give aid to other countries, why can't we help the Hispanics who are already here?"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Why should we embrace the law-breaking (who also do NOT fit our socio-economic needs) when MYRIAD foreign born wish to come to America?

Furthermore,the ONLY foreign-born residents here who do not on average EXCEED the success standards of average Americans fairly readily are the 80% who are ILLEGAL Hispanics (mostly border jumpers, but some visa violators). Normally, Asian and Euro newcomers do VERY well.

I generally also disapprove of much of foreign aid-- the 3 largest recipients are comparatively rich countries-- in order: Israel, Egypt, and Jordan-- BECAUSE of Israel. (see Camp David and Jewish lobby)

I See C.H.
So essentially we are left with a choice to fight North Korea, Iran, and Al Quaeda or to fight the pregnant Lations that otherwise will someday provide the future targets for our enemies. We can only do one and we can't choose both?!?

I guarantee you it would be a helluva lot cheaper to simply hire the 3rd world masses as mercenaries if having enough soldiers to fight our enemies is your main concern.

akagi is correct
....at least when my forefathers came to America the country admitted that they needed a workforce and made them legitimate citizens. If they tried to come today with pennies in their pockets to work in the fields, their cheap labor would be welcome with no hope for citizenship.


C.H.
"If we can import freedom to Iraq and give aid to other countries, why can't we help the Hispanics who are already here?"

Depends what you mean by Hispanics and help. Things such as welfare and the like should not be afforded to those not in the US legally.

Medical care? For critical care and to treat illnesses that can be spread to the general population? Yes. To use public hospitals as a de facto free clinic? No. Educate illegal children in K-12? Yes. Better than having them roaming the streets. In-state rates and the like at the post-secondary level? No.

Those who--
Yes, those who pander, feel "compassion" for, want to help these "poor undocumented people" are like those people who would give bullets to a bank robber so he could load his gun to rob the bank, this I believe. Also, these dummies don"t realize that their "so called Helping these Illegals" is actually costing us legal taxpayers more in many ways. Of course these same dummies when confronted will say "we must help these people", but what they really mean is "we will tug at your heart strings, but you will pay their bills etc." BTW, We have no compassion for these voluntary criminals.
Here they have their cinco de mayo parade etc. that should not happen since it is not an American holiday. In Mexico, go there and celebrate your victory over France, not here.

sammy
a native son fights a lot harder for his country than a mercenary. The Hessian mercenaries couldn't help England win against the Continental army. 'Continental Army' is a generous description of this disorganized, untrained collection of farmers with varmint rifles.

Different Time... Different Place
"at least when my forefathers came to America the country admitted that they needed a workforce and made them legitimate citizens."

Different time...different place. We no longer have a broad interior with large open spaces to develop, secure, and settle. We now have an information age economy instead of an agrarian economy requiring a skilled workforce rather than large masses of unskilled labor. We now have a social welfare state where politicians and activist judges have mandated expensive entitlements to any and all rather than a society where you lived and died by your hard work and contributions.

Immigration made sense a long time ago -- today not so much. Immigration of large scale uneducated low skilled masses is an anachronistic institution that continues today to the detriment of our society and economy.

the logical extension of this argument
re:
....at least when my forefathers came to America the country admitted that they needed a workforce and made them legitimate citizens.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

... is that you have wide open immigration. OK, that means about 80 million more mainly poor Mexicans alone would soon come... we have perhaps 5 million Islamics already, so it would certainly only seem fair then for many of the 1.3 BILLION Islamics elsewhere to want to come... that sure is working well in Europe.

There has been a growing East Indian population in America... but there are hundreds of millions of poor relatives back in India.

We are already the most diverse population of any major player-- EASILY.

If you think that things have been special in America, how long would you imagine that they would last with wholesale immigration today? Are we not a far different country than we were 100 years ago socio-economically? It is FAR tougher for someone poor and largely ignorant to come here today and succeed.


agaki
Mr Obama and Nancy Pelosi are going to give them everything anyway.

C.H.
When your forefathers came to the US depending when there was probably no such thing as an illegal alien. Restrictions on immigration didn't start until 1882 with the Chinese exclusion acts (passed in 1882 for ten years, extended for another 10 in 1892 and extended forever in 1902 until they were repealed in 1943). Until that time, the US basically had open immigration. In 1921 it passed the Emergency Quota Act and then in 1924 the National Origins Act (heavily pushed by the KKK and other racists such as Madison Grant), which banned much of the planet from immigrating to the US, but the quotas of some countries were so high as to have de facto open immigration to the US (e.g. The United Kingdom). This would be the case until 1965 when the quota system was replaced by the preference system which is in place today.

Oracle would though counter than this is no longer the same time as when your forefathers came to the US and the US no longer needs that kind of immigrant.

Ooh, well said, Sammy !!!
I could not have said it better myself! ;>)

We have to worry about the welfare state choking our vitality to death as it is... it would add kerosene to the fire to welcome still more of the poor.

You are right... 100 years ago a family could live off the earth and hard work... now poor immigrant families live in cities, and too often some among ILLEGALS find belonging in gangs. The left cannot wait to embrace them-- more "poor people" to manage with someone else's $... until eventually the someone else is everybody.

Sammy
" We no longer have a broad interior with large open spaces to develop, secure, and settle."

Sure you do. The upper midwest continues to lose population and communities in places like western Kansas beg for people to move in--some are even willing to basically give you a house.

Problem is, immigrants (and most others) don't want to live in the rural upper midwest.


Sammy
I respectfully disagree.

Freedom is a universal language that everyone inherently understands and wants.

...'instead of an agrarian economy requiring a skilled workforce rather than large masses of unskilled labor.'

Why are the Hispanics coming here as migrant workers and day workers if there isn't a need?

Never turn your nose up at people who do menial labor. You'll miss them when they're gone.

oracle
'It is FAR tougher for someone poor and largely ignorant to come here today and succeed.'

Indians and Asians own a lot of convenience stores. They work hard and scrimp and save and many of them become wealthy.

I'm not afraid of giving citizenship to people who want it. I think the system is broken and needs fixing. The desire to be free by so many people gives me a lot of hope.

I have to go. I'll come back later. Thanks for talking.

Akagi
My basic point is that we no longer have this broad swath of rugged land that needs to be secured and developed. To my knowledge there is now no indigenous tribes revolting and threatening to reconquer lost lands and no French or British contingents with desires on Michigan. If there is some project or economic opportunity awaiting us in our country there is plenty of native manpower and intellect to develop the projects.

the fool's gold illusion of cheap labor
re:
"Never turn your nose up at people who do menial labor. You'll miss them when they're gone."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Big parts of Europe got fat, dumb and happy, so they thought it might be just the thing to have Islamics come in-- but just to do the dirty work!

Now the much faster breeding Islamics will outnumber the native populations in a generation. That is NOT what those old nations intended or even fathomed. They are enjoying riots and other plagues... and an interesting thing-- the most militant Islamics are often BORN in the new countries.

C.H.
"Why are the Hispanics coming here as migrant workers and day workers if there isn't a need?"

There will always be a need for unskilled labor, it's just that this no longer is the engine of our economy. While there will always be a need for unskilled labor there also now exists a cost for that unskilled labor. That cost is not just what the employer pays to the illegal but also the generous benefits that politicians and activist judges have accorded to them from our treasury. This underlies the economic arguement against mass immigration.

I in no way look down on menial labor. In fact, I would argue that I am instead a champion of those who do menial labor -- that is the native born practitioners of these tasks. Our native born have mostly been run out of these jobs because they can't make a reasonable living in these professions with the lowered wages that have resulted from our massive levels of immigration. I'd rather that someone be able to make a decent wage and live a reasonable life doing menial labor than to have to become a ward of the state.

quality of life important also
Various vacuous conservatives have brayed that they flew over America and were amazed at how much land was available to develop.

Try telling that to residents in many areas with perpetual water shortages.

How much population is "too much"? And how much cultural and ethnic diversity is "an ample sufficiency"?

We are not just losing blue collar jobs to China and India due to outsourcing (where the libs certainly cannot tax them!), but M. Deities in India are reading medical data. Where are your annoying phone sales calls coming from now?

As for ILLEGALS working here, that inures FAR MORE to their benefit-- even before scamnesty eventuates to reward them for breaking our laws.

And what is it that we know better about not controlling immigration that has worked ANYWHERE else?

Oracle1
I see that you are once again in top form. Keep up the good work -- we're going to need you once again. The Messiah will be shopping the next round of amnesty very soon and once again it will be all hands on deck.

No one is more articulate and well informed than you -- keep it coming!

I actually have a decent level of confidence that we can stop this thing this time as well. What is more troubling is the de facto amnesty that is happening with the complete dismantling of any form of enforcement under Maobama.

Between
Illegals & Obama's Socialism, the death of America is on a fast track.
With welfare,lost wages and 50 billion sent back to Mexico,....the cost to American tax payers is 328 billion per year.

With Obama,Pelosi,Reid, redistributing the wealth(socialism), investment will dry up like a prune.

Wow, Sammy-- very good stuff!
Articulate, sagacious, cogent, intuitive, and salient! You are GOOD!

Of course, common sense is on our side. As Churchill said (paraphrasing), a man who is not liberal at 20 has no heart, but a man who is not conservative at 40 has no brain.

There are FAR too many unfortunate people in the world-- the population has doubled in less than a lifetime. Malthus might soon prove to be right-- his timing was just a bit off.

It WILL be necessary (directly or indirectly) to fight to preserve a good lifestyle like most Americans have known for a pretty good while. Our "poor people" are the envy of much of the world... no wonder ILLEGALS flock here.

Some facts about America's "poor":

[per census data]

* Eighty percent of poor households have air conditioning.
* 43% of all poor households actu­ally own their own homes.
* 97% of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
* 89% own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and more than a third have an automatic dishwasher.
* Nearly 75% of poor households own a car; 31 % own two or more cars.

oracle
"now poor immigrant families live in cities, and too often some among ILLEGALS find belonging in gangs."

That was pretty much the case 100 years ago too. The immigrants ended up in places like New York City, Chicago, SF, and not out in the rural midwest someplace. You've had Chinese tongs, Irish, Italian, Jewish, you name it, gangs for well over a hundred years. Much of the things written about immigrants 210, 160, 120, 80 years ago are almost the same as what you see now written about immigrants and illegals--they are destroying the make-up of the country, bringing in strange customs, languages, etc, bringing in crime and sickness and on and on.

oracle
"As Churchill said (paraphrasing), a man who is not liberal at 20 has no heart, but a man who is not conservative at 40 has no brain."

He never said it.

http://www.winstonchurchill.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid= 112


Sammy
"My basic point is that we no longer have this broad swath of rugged land that needs to be secured and developed."

Secured? No. Developed? Yes. Problem is as I said, Mexicans aren't going to want to live out in rural Kansas.

C.H.
"Indians and Asians own a lot of convenience stores. They work hard and scrimp and save and many of them become wealthy."

Yes, but they are not poor or uneducated when they come to the US but from the middle class.

Poor Jose from Oaxaca with a 3rd grade education won't be operating a 7-11 or Quik Trip. Perhaps he may be cleaning the floors, but he won't be owning or running it.

reply to: Akagi
Again you play the irreverent fact nerd iconoclastic gadfly, but does your point even matter?! The Churchill quotation is ineluctably in sync with his perspectives, and in any case, has merit on its face-- res ipsa loquitur.

You also bray obscure data constantly here about Asia... if that all matters a lot to you, why not move over there?

Oracle1
"There are FAR too many unfortunate people in the world-- the population has doubled in less than a lifetime."

But that's not "fair"! We have to do something about that! We live in a country of abundance so we have to do something about that -- like allow any and everyone who so desires to become American citizens and escape the foibles of their homeland!

I'm with you Oracle1. The only consideration that any and every policy our country undertakes should always be, "What's good for our country"? I'm sorry that so few were as fortunate as I to be born in this country, but I will do everything I can to preserve the greatness and prosperity of this country. We simply can't be "fair" to everyone in the world and trying to do so would "capsize the lifeboat" as you often reference. That doesn't make the unskilled and uneducated of the world bad people in any way -- just makes them not a good fit for our country. Again, they don't pass the cost benefit analysis.

I'm with you on the Malthus thing -- perhaps the conclusions on his failings were drafted a bit prematurely. I know that we can support a lot more people in this country, but that doesn't make it desireable. I prefer a wide open countryside with unspoiled vistas and abundant natural resources over the crowded resource scarce nation that we are quickly becoming.

Hey Look!
I can be a liberal too...

We can solve the border problem with amnesty and entitlements. What are we waiting for?

Oh, we already tried that back in 1986 and look how well it worked!

from a candidate's web page
America is different today

Today's immigrants (legal and ILLEGAL) are similar to those of a century ago, but they are coming to a very different America, one where changes in the economy, society, and government create fundamentally different incentives for newcomers. In other words, the America that some of our grandparents came to no longer exists. This simple fact must become the starting point for the explosive debate about immigration policy.

Although mass immigration once served our national interests, in today's America it weakens our common national identity, limits opportunities for upward mobility, threatens our security and sovereignty, strains resources for social programs, and disrupts middle-class norms of behavior. ILLEGALS particularly pervade pernicious social pathologies like a cancer.

So as the politicians argue about border fences and amnesty, they are missing the bigger picture: the harmful impact of large-scale settlement of all kinds of immigrants, whether legal or illegal, skilled or unskilled, temporary or permanent, European or Latin or Asian or African.

Modern America has simply outgrown wholesale immigration, and we must limit it before it cripples us, and carefully monitor the changes it forces.

a
Land mines and preditor drones on the border? What a good idea! Keep them coming!

Personally, I think we should build a simple double fence. Then we take all the lions, tigers, etc. we can find and put them between the two fences. And we post signs - "Trespassers will be eaten." You can even post them in Spanish! And to insure the cats get enough proteen, we toss the ones we find here back between the two fences.

Don't be bashful, folks!

Keep rattling those cages in Congress so that money flowing from the special interests trying to sell out America for cheap labor or power will seem less "special" to them. It is easy to reach them at numbersusa.com with prepared, targeted e-mails, OR you can send direct e-mails or call them at their official contact sites and offices just below.

BOOKMARK these sites and contact legislators OFTEN and with vigor. Remember your state and local level pols also-- do you live in a "sanctuary city" which is openly violating federal and state laws, but still receiving federal tax $?

Tell Congress that you support the SAVE Act and E-verify, and let them know you are monitoring their votes and will not accept "paths to citizenship" such as the "Dream Act" for those who broke the law to come here, work here, and tap into/drain benefits they were not entitled to (medicaid, free schooling and lunches, welfare) and did not pay taxes for.

For NOW, it is STILL YOUR COUNTRY... but NOW is the time for all good Americans to come to the aid of THEIR country.

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/content/6/3105
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/congress/phone-numbers-an
d-mailing-addresses-memb.html
http://www.numbers.usa

if illegal immigration is a good thing
we can always do it later. if illegal immigration is the death of our nation, we cannot undo it later. this is why the liberals are so set on continuing illegal immigration. they know it will be the death of america, it cannot be undone, and that is exactly what they want.

Sammy
"Oh, we already tried that back in 1986 and look how well it worked!"

The US didn't have much of an immigration problem after 1986. In 1994, only about 2.5 million illegal Mexicans were in the US. The amount crossing the border was a mere trickle. Since 1994, some 8-12 million have come across since and why the flood? NAFTA. Not saying there should be another one--there will be anyway--but the reason they flooded in starting in 1994 wasn't due to the 1986 reforms.

concurrent post from the war zone
... on the border

(slight edit)

anderson659
Location: AZ

Living in Arizona in the Phoenix metro area, we have more kidnappings than any other place on earth except Mexico City.

We also have uniformed hit squads of ILLEGAL aliens carrying out murders. We have ILLEGALS who have purchased homes with just a T.I.N number, obtained a mortgage, and now have cashed out and left the tax payer holding the bag... by the thousands of homes.

Recent count of inmates booked into Maricopa County jail since late 2007 that are ILLEGALS is well over 20,000

Illegals are NOT simply doing the jobs Americans don't want... they are being used as cheap labor... basically the employers who hire them are cheating everyone.

A raid at a water park last year netted a dozen or so. Within three days the positions were filled with legal Americans who took those jobs.

The same with raids all over the Phoenix valley. You cannot get a legal American child into Head Start by my home because all slots have been filled with ILLEGAL aliens.

The Maricopa County hospital on any given weekend is filled to the brim with people who are ILLEGAL, need treatment and cannot pay for it.

Legal Americans who are poor are left out.

In southern Arizona emergency clinics are closing and some are going bankrupt because they do not have enough paying customers to keep the doors open. ILLEGALS use them as their own private health plan.

The Maricopa County sheriff is being witch hunted for doing his job and deporting ILLEGAL aliens.

ILLEGAL aliens are simply cheating legal immigrants. Condoning the practice is without substance or merit.

Akagi
What you subsidize you get more of, what you tax you get less of. When we passed amnesty in 1986 we essentially subsidized illegal "immigration" and encouraged more of the same behavior. We have passed around a dozen mini-amnesties since 1986 and of course the problem has only grown larger.

I consider 2.5 million Mexicans by 1994 to be more than a trickle especially since the years immediately following the 1986 amnesty left somewhat of a void as those desiring to make the journey jumped in at the time of the amnesty. And of course how many other-than Mexicans were illegally in the country in 1994?

The lynchpin of the liberals "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" is amnesty. I merely point out the 1986 amnesty as proof that it doesn't solve the problem.

1986 amnesty DID exacerbate problem
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1476.cfm

author:
James Jay Carafano, Ph.D., is Assistant Director of the Kathryn and Shelby Cullom Davis Institute for International Studies and Senior Research Fellow for National Security and Homeland Security in the Douglas and Sarah Allison Center for Foreign Policy Studies at The Heritage Foundation.

excerpt:

The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 legalized individuals who had resided unlawfully in the United States continuously for five years by granting temporary resident status adjustable to permanent residency. That law failed to curb the influx of illegal immigration. The lesson for Congress is that granting amnesty overwhelms subsequent efforts to enforce the law and create appropriate legal avenues for South-North migration.

summary--

Stop the Insanity
The 1986 bill granted amnesty, then tried to enforce the law, and created a poor alternative to undocumented labor. It failed. The current bill follows exactly the same strategy. It will fail as well. Responsible reform legislation has to adopt a different course. Congress must do three things:

1. Reject granting amnesty;
2. Enforce the law; and
3. Create a realistic, flexible, and practical temporary worker program as soon as possible.

Any proposed immigration reform that does not satisfy these three fundamental goals is as flawed as the 1986 law.

a stunning source of reference info...
... on what to do about immigration-- how to handle ILLEGAL aliens, and how to have a sensible policy for legal immigration.

I urge anyone interested in saving America to bookmark it and check it out... lucid, authoritative, articulate, cognitive, and compelling.

http://www.heritage.org/research/immigration/index_all.cfm

Amnesty & Enforcement
The 1986 amnesty bill and the next amnesty bill will share two common fundamentals...

Amnesty - immediate and irrevocable

Enforcement -- promised but never delivered effectively and adequately

Oracle1
Gotta say, I love Heritage but step 3 has got to go.

Even if "temporary" worker programs actually benefited us economically as promised (and I don't believe that they do), these programs have never truly been temporary. It merely establishes a framework and a system whereby the program can be fraudulently and legally abused to shuffle in additional immigrants that never truly go home -- whether legally or illegally.

What happens when one of these "temporary" workers knocks up one of his ladies and brings forth his own anchor baby? "Surely, we can't be so cruel as to breakup families". Heard that one before?

What about the sham weddings to American citizens? A temporary worker program will only increase the incidence of this problem.

History from the Bracero program in this country to the Turks in Germany, to many other examples shows that "Temporary" Worker programs are never truly temporary. Better that we simply learn to do things for ourselves and pay a prevailing wage to the available laborers to get it done -- In the end I believe that it costs us a lot less money, fraud, and headaches.

Sammy
"History from the Bracero program in this country to the Turks in Germany, to many other examples shows that "Temporary" Worker programs are never truly temporary."

Sure they are--guest worker programs in places like Singapore and Taiwan among other places including Canada have been very successful.

I can't understand it.
On another blog I go to, a poster said that this talk is driving people away from the republican movement. I sure see a lot more of this than supporting the Amnesty movement. This is especially so since the economy took a downturn and so many are laid off from work. I say bag em', tag em' and deport em'!!!! Send a few of the employer that employ them with em'!!!

gotta' say it...
re:
"Sure they are--guest worker programs in places like Singapore and Taiwan among other places including Canada have been very successful."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

... more relatively obscure Asian reference data with little to no relevance to America... Singapore is notoriously harsh on outside transgressors (thrashing/caning) which tends to obviate misbehavior, and Hong Kong is an island-- pretty easy comparatively to police!

Canada has about 1/10th our population and a climate and location which pretty much dissuades border interlopers, and even visa violators-- which they likely do not tolerate either. Again, true relevance?


all we need is the political gumption
re:
I say bag em', tag em' and deport em'!!!! Send a few of the employer that employ them with em'!!!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

ILLEGAL aliens stay because we let them do so-- I would if I were they. They make 10x as much here as in Mexico, and get free services-- they think we are dumb to allow such largess-- and they are right!

All we need do is enforce EXISTING laws, but the politicos have vested interests in ILLEGALS remaining... see my earlier posts such as "the Conspiracy Of Evil" at 7:29 a.m.

It is ultimately quite simple--> no jobs, no freebies-- NO STAY! Vamanos muchachos al Mexico!

oracle
Sammy claims that guest worker programs don't work which is not the case. Now as to if the US could develop one that worked and didn't simply become an end-around US immigration law is another matter. A guest worker program would require a level of competence that I doubt the US government holds.

By the way, I never said anything about Hong Kong, but only Taiwan and Singapore and yes Hong Kong Island is an island as well as Lantau, and a number of other smaller islands, but most of the Hong Kong SAR is actually made up of Kowloon and the New Territories. Kowloon is a peninsula and the New Territories a large chunk of mainland China taken from Guangdong Province in 1898 for 99 years.

Oracle
And as for Canada, they have a much more liberal refugee policy than does the US and a much easier investment immigration policy which is why the "astronauts" from Hong Kong in the 1984-1997 period picked Canada (and Australia) to immigrate to and not the US. Canada takes in a much larger number of immigrants per capita than does the US.

Solutions.
1. Legalize drugs. Drug cartels won't succeed competing against Wal-Mart.

2. Drop E-Verify. 1/25 legal workers have problems with their social security numbers and there rae 150 million SSNs assigned to dead workers. E-Verify will just boost the black market for SSNs and make it easier for illegals to fly under the radar using a valid SSN from some dead guy. I've got problems since my prior employer got my SSN wrong, I'm listed twice and frequently have problems with taxes, I'd get outright denied a job under E-Verify even though I'm a born citizen.

3. Elimiante subsidies of all sorts. Without medical care and education, there's little reason to show up in America.

4. Eliminate birthright citizenship. Again, no free citizenship for those just plopped out on US soil, reduced reason to show up.

5. Stop defending Iraqi borders with the US military, defend American borders. The US isn't being protected by having our military in 600 (yes, 600) foreign bases. Use them on our southern border. Put up a huge, concrete wall (not that aluminum thing that illegals bypass in 45 seconds).

Akagi
A per-capita immigration policy doesn't do anyone any good. If Canada lets in 2 million and America lets in 10 million, Canada has a higher per capita policy but 8 million fewer slots than the US does. This doesn't increase the chances of arriving.

What we need is a New Zealand style immigration policy. This would be politically unpopular, but it solves many problems. They simply do not allow unskilled labor into their nation and use a hard-line points system. Considerations like education level, skills in short supply nationally and age make up the key points of consideration. They also have bonus points if you're a wealthy individual. Breach a certain point level, you're guaranteed entry. Anyone under that level has to fight out for the remaining spots, which are taken by the highest scoring individuals. You're not guaranteed entry if you wait in a line long enough, people may never get in since they'll never reach the required points level. The method is neutral to race, gender and nationality. That's what America needs to do. We simply have too many unskilled laborers and don't need to engage in blind Canadian-style immigration policies (and certainly not the per-nation quota mess we have now).

We need people who are competent and can add to the nation's well being, not drain it.

Justin
"They simply do not allow unskilled labor into their nation."

New Zealand is also less than 1/2 the size of NYC. How many sheep herders do they need any way?

NZ also has a guest worker program too.

Arizona
I can relate to Arizona, because California has similar problems.

A lady in San Francisco is suing the local government, sanctuary city, for not following the federal law to enforce immigration. Her whole family was wiped out by a criminal illegal alien. I hope she wins her lawsuit.

As a side note, I sent a not to Feinstein about e-verify, asking her to support it, she sent me a response about how she feels my pain about the AIG bonuses. I am not kidding. Great government we have.

Battle for the Border
Illegal immigrants are not citizens, have broken our laws, many committed felonies, and they should have no legal standing in our country whatsoever! I'm getting tired of repeating myself but the recipe is: Secure the borders first, NO AMNESTY, and E-Verify will go a long way in resolving this mess.

The political fiddling around with securing the borders and other entry points is irresponsible to say the least and if a major incident occurs there will be a monstrous backlash at the do-nothing politicos. It’s a no-brainer: The borders and other entry points should have been iron-clad-secured a year after 911 even if it meant stationing the military at the borders, especially the Southern border, until the fence(s) is/are built. There is no excuse whatsoever for not doing this. What’s dumb as dirt is sending our best in harm’s way in the armpit of the world that is the Middle East apart from a small special ops surgical strike of a very temporary nature to take out that Osama puke and his entourage. We the people better impose serious pressure and accountability on these unresponsive, irresponsible politicians of extremely dubious merit.

Every illegal alien has broken numerous laws, many felonies, and deserves to be pursued, detained, prosecuted, incarcerated, and deported…and not in a “five star guest” manner either. The way things are going is that the illegal immigrant has as many rights if not more than the law-abiding citizen. RIDICULOUS and OUTRAGEOUS!


Battle for the Border II
Napolitano, a closet lesbian by many accounts, is a lawyer by education so right off the bat not fit for the job of SHS. You want someone with some intelligence background, security experience at the national level, and some credible expertise in the area of FEMA that responds to and handles mostly natural disasters. She has none of these credentials. Even as AZ’s Attorney General and Governor she has repeatedly maneuvered for big spending on her pet issues. For example, Child Protective Services (CPS) in the state is grossly incompetent and causes more unnecessary hardships to families than can be imagined. Yet, when it was brought to her attention she ploughed more moneys into the seriously dysfunctional organization instead of abolishing it and starting from a clean slate with proper checks and balances. CPS here only got worse, much worse.

Settle This Monstrosity
My brother went out of business because he couldn't compete with the illegal aliens being hired by other employers. That put ten American citizens out of work, Most of them still haven't found a job, and those that have are working for around half of what he paid. Construction laborers are the group that has the highest unemployment, and we're letting illegal immigrants take the available jobs. Are we insane, or stupid? With the Dems in office, the answer is both. Our prisons in Arizona are full of illegals, some of whom are in for their second or third felony. Our local school has about a fifth of its students illegals. Their illegal parents have better ID than I do.

When our idiot senator McCain told us they do jobs Americans won't do, he named the jobs my family and I worked our way through high school and college with.

Politicians had better settle this business, or the people will settle it for them.

O.
"Illegal immigrants are not citizens, have broken our laws, many committed felonies, and they should have no legal standing in our country whatsoever!"

Sorry. The courts don't see it that way.

"What’s dumb as dirt is sending our best in harm’s way in the armpit of the world that is the Middle East apart from a small special ops surgical strike of a very temporary nature to take out that Osama puke and his entourage. We the people better impose serious pressure and accountability on these unresponsive, irresponsible politicians of extremely dubious merit."

Afghanistan is in South Asia.

"The way things are going is that the illegal immigrant has as many rights if not more than the law-abiding citizen. RIDICULOUS and OUTRAGEOUS!"

Yes as the courts have pointed out in many cases all persons in the US--citizen, legal and illegal alike share the same rights under the Constitution as everyone else.

Akagi
Do you have any problem with deporting all of them under the laws we have or does that offend the Courts or other bandits in some way?

DR. Feulner
good column. I would add that the Mexican gov. is re invading our country. They work against our country. They believe that the south west is thires. The groups like la rasa (THE RACE)activly tell the people this. When will we wake up?
Kirk

Tell Congress to STOP the Spending!
It's time to tell Congress we've had enough.

Folllow the link and send your members of Congress a personalized message telling them to STOP the Spending!

http://www.conservativeoutpost.com/campaign/cta/stop_spendi ng

Mother Nature Has No Fences.
National borders are a relic of the past. Holding a job and paying bills gives a person the right to be worthy of respect. Opening up the borders will give every person the chance to earn a place in America. Mother Nature has no fences because she wants the best to survive.

Melvin
That is without a doubt the most destructive and brainless idea I have heard this month. It would destroy our country and make us a third-world cesspool. You're a Democrat, right? No surprise there.

good luck with border protection
Napolitano could not handle her own borders in Arizona when she was governor. How can she protect our nation?

She is more interested in investigating returning soldiers for fear they may go "McVeigh". Ugh!

She also has pointed out that there are no more terror attacks perpetrated by Islamofascists bent on establishing a world caliphate governed by Sharia Law.We are now to call these attacks...,human caused events.Ugh!

I miss Judge Chertoff. He was 50 lbs.underweight(Napolitano is like 50 lbs. overweight), sunken cheeks,with dark circles under his eyes. I could sleep at night because I knew he wasn"t.

Napolitano and Barry's chief economist Christina Roemer look like twins. It's scary! Neither one of them seem to know their rear end from a hole in the ground when it comes to their respective job descriptions.And I guarantee you they BOTH have no problems sleeping at night.

They just don't think they have that much to worry about!

melvin
funny how you bleeding heart lefties never understand who foots the bills when these parasites invade this country.

Seems you are another loser who fully supports mexico exporting their trash for america to take care of.

But like all clueless fools you have no understanding of the costs of illegals and the services they steal.

But explain how illiterate lettuce pickers and grass cutters enrich society. Better to round up these parasites and the lice they produce and ship their worthless a**es back to their country of origin.

And if you feel so badly for them, follow them home and set up a mission to provide them at your cost the services they steal from this country

Repel boarders
Or those that cross the border...We should as US citizens start turning in illegal aliens and take matters into our own hands!

melvin
Here's to hoping yours is the next job taken by the illegals.(temporarily of course)If they want to come here by the LEGAL channels, I will give them all the support I possibly can. If not, GO HOME ALL ILLEGALS. That includes the Irish illegals that the prime minister of Ireland asked to go easy on.

Yeah, or we could do it the smart way
We could shut down all cartel operations in the United States by abolishing prohibition and trusting adults to use their own judgment. But that kind of freedom is just un-American.

hoodaticus
no, that wouldn't shut them down at all, there's always the few that want a better higher high. Treat it with this treat it with that. That will just make it that much more dangerous on the highways. Then there's the kids. Kids steal their parents smokes now so now we let them steal their coke,speed, crank, well, you get the picture.

Bail Out Money
With the money we gave to the N.Y. gamblers to cover their losses we could have built a wall with one dollar bills 10 ft. high that could be seen from space.

"rights" of ILLEGAL aliens?

What exactly are ILLEGAL aliens "entitled to" from American society? The wayward side (e.g. Geraldo, Linda Chavez, Smilin' Juan Hernandez) proffers inane apologia and prattle such as, "border crossing is a minor transgression akin to jaywalking," or "they are just trying to feed their families," or "they are just doing those jobs Americans won't do," or "America needs their cheap labor." ALL of these are willful, fatuous, disingenuous, red herring equivocations and outright prevarications!

ANY ILLEGAL alien who works here is automatically committing multiple felonious frauds, which does not count the pandemic social pathologies which permeate with them like the black death. It is NOT the obligation of American society and taxpayers to bail out corrupt and failed plutocratic Latin American governments by providing employment and social welfare for their myriad ignorant indigent.

America CANNOT AFFORD this so-called "cheap labor," which actually benefits ONLY the relative few miscreant employers; a hotel room or head of lettuce is NO CHEAPER to YOU as a result of ILLEGAL alien labor.

When the feds make their "show raids" on miscreant employers such as meat processing plants, Americans (often the LEGAL workers previously displaced) usually refill the jobs IMMEDIATELY, giving lie to the myth of, "doing jobs Americans won't do."

Just below are the official contact sites for Congress... a few clicks, and you can EASILY send e-mails or call them. Even easier--> NumbersUSA gives you FREE, prepared e-mails to send, and even targets your people in Congress for you.

BOOKMARK THESE, and get engaged today! America would be a terrible thing to lose! YOU can help prevent that tragedy! Please join in and save YOUR country!

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm
http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet

a recent post as food for thought

Justin Location: IN

Solutions

Step 1: Recall ALL soldiers stationed overseas. This includes Iraq, Afghanistan, South Korea and Germany.

Step 2: Position all these recalled soldiers across the southern US border with shoot to kill orders on anyone that fails to respond to orders to turn back.

Step 3: Take the logistics savings (tune of $150 billion) from bringing all these soldiers back and build a 15 foot thick concrete wall across the entire US-Mexico border with reinforced guard towers every 200 yards (100 yard firing arc for guards, highly reliable with a small arm M-16).

Step 4: Initiate an immigration policy in-line with nations like New Zealand or Singapore. Basically, we only import labor that is deemed in short supply in the USA. They do not import unskilled or uneducated foreign nationals in those nations and it is unsurprising that neither of them have the same degree of welfare pervasiveness that we do.

There, I've offered the solution. I've found ways to pay for the entire thing as well without raising taxes a penny (and long-term lowering taxes), now tell me I'm just whining.

a cogent recent post
(slight edit)

Reba Location: TX

Subject: WAKE UP AMERICA!

While working for a mortgage company for over 8 years I saw the easy home loans for Illegal Aliens, which is only the tip of the iceberg.

I know for a fact that pregnant Mexican women come across the border to give birth in American hospitals to allow their newborns to be born as American citizens; medical benefits are provided to all Illegal Aliens now, and Obama wants to include them in a National Health Care System, Ouch!

Illegal Aliens have the benefits of our public schools; now California is considering offering further benefits to Illegal Aliens for College.

Illegal Aliens have committed serious crimes in this country and returned to Mexico to avoid prosecution. Recall the family of three that was murdered this year near San Francisco by a Illegal Alien second offender living there in a "safe harbor city" after his first offense. Illegal Aliens have all the benefits of this country without any of the responsibilities.

What rights did Illegal Aliens have to march in protest in this country when amnesty was being considered last year? Are they making policy in this country? Why has the Illegal Alien problem not been an issue more in this past campaign?

If we need the laborers from Mexico we can provide a work permit system and keep track of who is in this country. I have worked in foreign countries and could not have stayed over 90 days without the proper documents. One more point, in Texas we are charged an extra fee on our auto insurance for uninsured motorist. Guess who the uninsured motorists are?

THIS COUNTRY IS BLEEDING FINANCIALLY NOW-- ILLEGALS ARE one cause of it. As Americans we need to take back our country and hold all pols accountable. The liberals should come to the realization of what their attitudes do to this country. I want to help my neighbor as well, but I am not willing to give my country away to do it.

Oracle1
You are right, this country is BEING bled to death and Mexico is mainlining our life blood every day. the cost of welfare, the costs of social programs, the added costs of emergency service, the added costs of non english only programs. We need to stop and take the proverbial needle out of our arms and do something to stop the influx of these people, and we have to do it soon.
well I have to go to high TEA. Hope to see all the Cleveland area people there. God Bless all.

Oracle
And Justin is just plain wrong. Singapore does indeed import uneducated foreign nationals as does New Zealand--they both have a guest worker program. Also, as people like Sammy like to point out when Singapore is used to justify a point they don't agree with, Singapore and New Zealand have a population half the size of NYC and neither can be compared to the US.

I do point out that Singapore only spends 3% of its GDP on health care and has a national health service, but that system of mandated health savings via payroll deductions and state price and service controls would never work in the US.

Robert:

You can try to deport them all. At current rates that would take you 50 years (assuming all are illegals--and many are legal residents who ran afoul of the law such as getting into say a bar fight--and that not a single new illegal alien entered the US). Note that finding, housing, and the due process burdens of the illegal aliens will make this task a very difficult one.

Tell Congress NO AMNESTY
Follow the link and send a personalized message to your members of Congress.

Let them know you oppose amnesty for illegal aliens.

Tell them to say "NO" to amnesty when Obama proposes it this year!

http://www.conservativeoutpost.com/campaign/stop_amnesty

myopic self-immolation by RINOS
myopic self-immolation by RINOS

re:
"The Dems are smart enough to know that these people (and their children) will vote overwhelmingly for the Democratic party. Why not vote for a party that will actually give you hand outs and affirmative action based preferential treatment? It makes total sense, the the GOP will never get more than about 35% of those voters."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Gotta' agree here... the RINOS and Chamber of C. cheap labor ilk are IDIOTS to speak of appealing to the purported "conservative social values" of ILLEGALS as prospective voters.

What is "conservative" about rampant rates of illegitimacies and dropouts, and arrant propensities toward crimes and gangs?! Also, recent ILLEGALS are especially prone to cling to espanol and are being aided and abetted by the PC ilk.

The left knows that it can hand them ballots in espanol with numbers and get those big entitlement govt. votes... and they need not await citizenship to vote either.

Heritage calculates that giving a path to citizenship for 12-15 million would mean 100 million new, generally poor and largely ignorant citizens within 20 years... and we would morph ineluctably into a permanent welfare state.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm

demythologizing the deportation dilemma
The disingenuous are prone to bray, "We cannot simply deport 12 million!" First, there are considerably more than that here ILLEGALLY. About 1 in 8 residents, upwards of 40 million are foreign born-- MANY of those either jumped the border (78%) or overstayed visas. Fully 80%+ are Hispanic, and most of those are poor and undereducated (a 6th grade education is common). If such indigent ignorant are naturalized, it becomes a formula for socio-economic DISASTER.

Few among them can sustain themselves without jobs and "free" social services. It would indeed be untenable to herd them up and deport them... to paraphrase a Lincoln metaphor,"It would be like shoveling fleas across a barnyard-- not half of them would get there."

BUT THIS IS A WILLFUL FALSE CHOICE! All we really need is the political will to clamp down on ILLEGAL jobs and discontinue free services. Then the ILLEGAL alien interlopers would return the SAME WAY THEY CAME!

Consider what happens when individual states crack down-- they move on at their expense to less law-abiding places! It is NOT our laws which are lax, but our failure to enforce EXISTING laws!

The REAL problem is that too many artful users (what I call "The Conspiracy Of Evil") have a vested interest in ILLEGALS staying because they mean money and power to the miscreant who use them.

Please see my related posts about devious politicians and other law-breaking players who comprise the Conspiracy Of Evil in aiding and abetting the ILLEGAL alien incursion.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.