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Monday, July 07, 2008
Dr. Paul  Kengor :: Townhall.com Columnist
Barack Obama Embraces Theocracy
by Dr. Paul Kengor
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“George W. Bush is a [EXPLETIVE] theocrat!”

If I had a dollar for every time I heard that over the past eight years. Having written a book on the faith of George W. Bush, I was pummeled by liberals for not conceding that Torquemada had risen from the grave and was now running America from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

The evidence proffered ranged from the comical to the deranged, and was infused with an astonishing dose of historical illiteracy. This was ironic, given that those leveling the charge—whether the run-of-the-mill angry left-wing emailer or the predictable professor from some secular university—prided themselves on their brilliance, in obvious contrast to Bush’s ignorance. Never mind that George W. Bush’s presidential remarks on religion were mild compared to the musings of liberal icons like FDR and Woodrow Wilson.

The left’s favorite example of President Bush’s looming theocracy was his faith-based initiative. This sent secular liberals over the edge, a bloody bludgeoning of the bright, unmistakable, thousand-foot-high wall separating church and state.

It began with one of the first acts of Bush’s presidency: he signed an executive order creating a White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives. The goal of the office is to provide local community “helpers and healers” (Bush’s words)—who operate within religiously affiliated organizations—with federal money to help advance their work.

Not everyone shared Bush’s enthusiasm for the office; it came under fire in his first press conference, where he was lectured by veteran reporter (and noted Constitutional scholar) Helen Thomas, who reacted as if the new president had authorized an Office of Christian Crusading:

Thomas: Mr. President, why do you refuse to respect the wall between the church and state? And you know that the mixing of religion and government for centuries has led to slaughter. I mean, the very fact that our country has stood in good stead by having the separation—why do you break it down:

Bush: Helen, I strongly respect the separation of church and state----

Thomas: Well, you wouldn’t have a religious office in the White House if you did.

Bush: I didn’t get to finish my answer, in all due respect. I believe that so long as there’s a secular alternative available, we ought to allow individuals … to be able to choose a faith-based program…. [S]ome of the most compassionate missions of help and aid come out of faith-based programs. And I strongly support the faith-based initiative that we’re proposing, because I don’t believe it violates the line between the separation of church and state, and I believe it’s going to make America a better place.

Thomas: Well, you are a secular official…. And not a missionary.

Bush, polite to a fault, let Thomas have the last word, as he has with nearly every liberal who has rolled all over him for the past eight years.

Yet, there was a hidden surprise for liberals: While they doggedly insisted that Bush’s new office forged the backbone of an emerging theocratic regime, they neglected to notice that there were politicians on their side of the aisle that liked it.

One such Democrat was Hillary Clinton. On January 19, 2005, Hillary addressed the National Ten Point Leadership Foundation and the Ella J. Baker House, two boosters of faith-based initiatives. “There is no contradiction between support for faith-based initiatives and upholding our constitutional principles,” declared Clinton, correctly. She said there was a “false division” between faith-based solutions and church-state separation. Hillary demanded that public officials be permitted to “live out their faith in the public square.”

When I began speaking on Hillary Clinton’s faith, I warned university audiences to brace themselves for the likelihood that a President Hillary Clinton would not only refuse to cast Bush’s faith-based initiative into a lake of fire, but, quite the contrary, would embrace it. This elicited expressions of horror from Hillary advocates in the crowd, as if I had just said that a Hillary presidency would resume the Bush practice of drowning witches in the Potomac.

Well, it turns out that Hillary will not get that chance. Lo and behold, however, Barack Obama promises the same—and then some. On Tuesday, Obama not only commended Bush’s pet project but said he would enlarge it; in fact, it would form the “moral center” of his presidency.

Liberals are stunned—they thought Obama was smart, like them. Surely he understands that the words “separation of church and state”—no doubt the first words in the Constitution—banish all expressions of faith from the Oval Office? They cannot comprehend that Obama likes Bush’s program.

Their problem is that they are so dripping with poisonous hatred for George W. Bush that they remain incapable of honestly assessing him and his policies. If Bush is for it, they’re against it.

So, once again victimized by their emotions, they are left to contradict themselves as their beloved presidential nominee endorses Bush’s crowning theocratic initiative—the one they claimed morphed the 43rd president into an American Ayatollah.

And don’t expect liberals in the mainstream press to attack Obama. Rather, expect them to continue to suddenly get that old-time religion, to further satiate their newfound fascination with faith. Their Saul-on-the-Road-to-Damascus conversion continues. Unlike the treatment of George W. Bush, there will be no scourging of Obama. He is the anointed one, and he can talk about God and integrate church and state all he wants. It is truly a new day for faith and politics in America.

 

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About The Author
Dr. Paul Kengor, author of spiritual biographies of Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush, has just published God and Hillary Clinton and The Judge: William P. Clark, Ronald Reagan's Top Hand. He is a professor of political science and executive director of the Center for Vision & Values at Grove City College.

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Obama's Theocracy
Obama and his emissaries have taken to identifying Barack as a "devout Christian."
Of course, whether he is a "devout" Christian or a Christian at all is really a private matter between the candidate and his God.
What is interesting to note, though, is that there is no cry from the left of an impending theocracy if the "devout Christian" Barack Obama were to be elected. In fact, the left seems quite comfortable with Obama's frequent professions of faith and his devotion to Christ.
Why is that?
Could it be because Obama's support of abortion is so "devout" that the left knows President Barack's brand of Christianity will never stop the shedding of innocent blood?
Or is it because they know that Obama's version of Christianity is not Christianity at all but just a cynical use of religion to help him get the votes of gun toting Bible clingers?
Tom Quigley


I think
you answered your own question with the last two paragraphs in your post.

We can't just the heart but we can inspect the fruit..and Obama's is a bit on the wormy side
if you ask me. NO devout christian supports
abortion and NO compassionate, humane person
supports partial birth or neglect of babies who survive abortion. No HUMAN BEING refuses to
allow legislation to be voted on, on the premise that if it passes it will bestow the
child marked for murder as a person, thus
having all the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as every other American citizen. To act as Obama did in these cases
tells me, he's devoid of any humanity, or conscience.

OBAMA'S LIBERATION THEOLOGY GAME !!
First of all, I have always believed that if Government can give you your rights ...then..
they could also take away you rights too.

Obama is slick because he will try to secularize
the process which will destroy the Shared Values
that many of the organizations have. Also, Obama will make it a crime to share the "Good News" with the very people it intends to help.

Obama will streamline the process to insure that non-Christians can get jobs in these organizations even though they may not share the shared values of many of the members of such a group.

This will be Obama's back door policy of secularizing the churchs and buying them off like Bush has already done. Too bad that Pope John Paul is not still alive or he could dress him down on one of his papal visits to North America like he did the priests who were involved in LIBERATION THEOLOGY IN ATLANTA.

CORRECTION..ATLANTA SHOULD BE S. AMERICA
This will be Obama's back door policy of secularizing the churchs and buying them off like Bush has already done. Too bad that Pope John Paul is not still alive or he could dress him down on one of his papal visits to North America like he did the priests who were involved in LIBERATION THEOLOGY IN SOUTH AMERICA.

Obama's Black Liberation Theology
Barack Obama is a "black nationalist" who has all of his adult life, practiced Black Liberation Theology which is not rooted in the teachings of Jesus Christ, or the New Testament writers but in the teachings of James H. Cone, and rooted in the teachings of Karl Marx. Look up James H. Cone or Black Liberation Theology, and you will begin to understand just who this low-life scumbag really is. This man is no more a Christian than Louis Farakan or Jeremiah Wright is! He is a shameless fraud whose audacity is without bounds! I myself did an expose on my TH blog site about Obama's pledging allegiance to the Black Value System and Black Liberation Theology while sitting at the feet of Jeremiah Wright and Michelle Robinson for some 20 years. How he is able to pull the wool over the eyes of so many mindless minions is beyond comprehension. This man is a danger to civil society, and should he somehow manage to get elected, "Middleclassnes" in America will soon be only a memory. People you had better wake up and speak up! The enemies of capitalism and Americanism are licking their chops!

Hate Bush, Love Obama
There's no better evidence that liberals emote rather than think when they hate Bush for doing X but love Obama for doing X. For example, winning in Iraq is bloodthirsty empire-building for Bush but saintly self-sacrificial love for Obama.

The examples of this will be legion, and we will be treated to distinctions, justifications and spin so bizarrely Orwellian that we will come to believe that our liberal compatriots have been banished from the realm of reality forever.

Obama will get credit for Bush victory
If we are cursed with an Obama victory in November, you can bet your bottom dollar that Obama and the treasonous Democrats in Congress (including Harry "The war is lost" Reid, Jack "The Treasonous Traitor" Murtha, Dick "Pol Pot" Durbin, and John "Genghis Khan" Kerry)will spare no amount of expense of money or sacrifice of American troops to ensure the completion of the victory that President Bush has already all-but accomplished in Iraq, only to take the credit by claiming it was them and Obama who made the difference.

These people believe that they have enough "suckers" lined up and ready to follow them in the reprobate homo/abortionist movement that has infested the mainstream electorate of this country, that they will fall for anything if they can be convinced they will be able to live out their reprobate lifestyles without shame or censure under an unopposed Democrat administration.

As long as they see the promise of being able to co-habitate with members of the same sex and kill the fruit of unwanted pregnancies at will, they are willing to accept whatever form of government that condones such behavior. That's all.

A Difference
I think Bush's thing for the office and money is because he believes that religion has a place in our moral lives. Hillary and Barack do it because it is an opening to voters - nothing more.

A real theocracy
Look to Iran. The Mullahs and Mahmoud Ahmagiantdickhead run the real thing.

Read the Fine Print
Obama says his program would require that the faithful in order to get the cash would have to follow Federal hiring guidelines (i.e. hire gays and ordain women), remove all religious symbols from the areas where they pass out the goodies, and not mention religion at any point.

In short, this is a way to funnel federal funds to Jeremiah Wright and Father Pflueger.

Beware
if ever there were someone that "speaks with forked tongue" - it is BHO.

OncealwaysaMarine...I agree!
You wrote "As long as they see the promise of being able to co-habitate with members of the same sex and kill the fruit of unwanted pregnancies at will, they are willing to accept whatever form of government that condones such behavior."

I won't end in Jan. 2009 should Obama be elected. Rather it will begin a new era in American life.

You think the PC police are bad now? Try calling a member of NAMBLA a pervert or a child molester and see who ends up with a lawsuit.

Obama also espouses an agenda that reassures women that he will not take away their "rights" to have an abortion, up to and including late term abortions, partial birth abortions and the most heinous of all: the deaths of infants born alive in failed abortion attempts.

He campaigns by saying he has MY best interest in mind (I am a voter), yet he fails to use his voice or influence to defend the most innocent among us (those who cannot vote).

One day, I might be found to be utterly senile and quite innocent in my old age, and someone might be granted the “right” to take my life. You say that will never happen in America? Think again.

I’ll bet the Founders of this nation never thought that one day Americans would be granted the “right” to kill millions of innocent babies, some by having a pair of scissors shoved in their brain then suctioned into a container.

I don’t want Obama to appoint like-minded, left wing judges to the Supreme Court to further their far-left looney agenda. I want judges who recognize a Higher Moral Authority and who will work diligently to defend the lives of innocents as they seek the counsel of that Higher Authority who truly holds a Supreme Court.

The "Progressives" attitude
Toward the "stone wall" between religion and government is heavily dependent on which religion you're talking about.

After all, they have spent the last thirty years mandating the study of "Holy Mother Gaia" in public school science classes, and the last seven years doing likewise for Islam in "Current Affairs" classes.

Not to mention their long-standing infatuations with Buddhism, Hinduism, various Native American belief systems, the odd bit of Wicca here and there, various forms of paganism, and of course Est, TA, and other California-specific theologies.

In fact, it seems that as far as they're concerned, only Christianity and Judaism are beyond the pale. In fact, they are so far beyond it that not only don't they want government showing respect for either one, they don't want anyone to be able to practice either one at home or in their own congregations, either.

Which to me makes the recent fascination with Qabbalism (sp?) amongst the "enlightened elite'" even more curious. They apparently are totally ignorant of its origins.

Of course, ignorance- to say nothing of arrogance, intolerance, and plain stupidity- aren't exactly new phenomena with this bunch, either.

cheers

eon

OncealwaysaMarine (continued)
How professing Christians can fawn over Obama knowing that he stayed in a church for 20+ years where Black Liberation Theology was taught, or knowing his position on abortion, including late term, partial-birth abortions and that he supports allowing an innocent infant to die because of a failed abortion attempt is beyond me!

Christians who support Obama and his twisted agenda and theology, taught by the likes of Cone, Farrakan, and Marx better sit up and take stock of Obama.

I "ain't" buying it
Obama's flips and flops on issues have made John Kerry look like a solid left wing demagogue. How can anyone say what Obama will do if (God forbid) he were to become President? With his 20 year track record of attendance in the not so Rev. Wright's church getting the type of "religion" he teaches, it begs the question of what kind of "faith" these faith based programs would be. I'm not optimistic.

BO'S BASE FAITH
Any evangelical comtemplating voting for BO due to his "deep Christian faith" should read his interview in this article from the MSM Chicago Sun-Times published well prior to this "makeover" as a supporter of faith based initiatives:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/falsani/726619,obamafalsani040 504.article

The article reveals that BO did not (and probably still does not) have the foggiest notion about being a Christian, and names some of his closest "religious" mentors.

In the leftist play book, it doesn't matter if Barack is a Christian believer as long as he's successfully faking "change" for the vote.

Let's get this out of the way right NOW!

Marxist Obama's Trinity has already received $15M in taxpayer money. Ummmm....

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/06/02/fox-news-wright-trini ty-received-15m-in-taxpayer-money-from-gddamn-america/

And, most importantly, the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

There is NO CORRELATION between Pres. Bush's Faith Based Initiative and "establishment of religion."

And yes, Helen Thomas is JUST as lovely on the inside as she is the outside, isn't she??? :-)

There is no wall!
There are no such words that speak of "separation of Church and State" in the Constitution! That is a complete distortion of the First Amendment created by the Demo-Libs. But it doesn't matter. If the Liberals manage to get their Messiah Obama elected he will quickly push his own policies, based on his true cult beliefs over all religions. That of Islamic/Black Theology.

Oncealwaysamarine, Ace, patriotic & Anne
Right on!

Anyone sitting for 20 years in Rev o so Wrong's congregation should have both their patriotism and their sanity seriously questioned!

How can a candidate for president get away with resigning from his rabidly racist church because it had become a "distraction" without this being front page news. Only the MSM in America with their deep infatuation with BO could think that a his 20 year relationship with a mentor such as Rev Wrong is no big deal.

A Non-Christian perspective
SOME OF THE COMMENTARY BY CHRISTIANS ABOUT OBAMA JUST BAFFLES ME. CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN IT????

For example, Patriotic in reply 16 points to an article on Obama and faith from some years ago

http://www.suntimes.com/news/falsani/726619,obamafalsani040 504.article

And then says
"The article reveals that BO did not...have the foggiest notion about being a Christian..."

What does that mean?

When I read the article, I conclude that anyone quarelling with Obama's faith must have a very dogmatic, authoritarian view of that religion.

Everyhing Obama says sounds like a christian whose faith guides him. However he recognizes that he himself is not a prophet or religious authority imposing his beliefs on others.

Obama is quoted as saying:

"The difficult thing about any religion ... is that ... there is a call to evangelize and proselytize. There's the belief ... that if people haven't embraced Jesus Christ as their personal savior, they're going to hell. I don't presume to have knowledge of what happens after I die..."

What he is saying is that his faith informs, guides and sustains him but he doesn't impose it on others or claim that others are doomed because they do not believe exactly the same things as he does.

You can disagree with his point of view. But why question his faith or attribute sinister or hypocritcal reasons to his embrace of faith based initiatives???

It is perfectly understandable that he would see value in faith based organizations and advocate government channeling appropriate programs and dollars through them rather than avoiding them. I can also see him making some adjustments to the Bush approach to improve the separation religion from the delivery of services by these organizations. Where is the problem in this for christians???

Tom
You ask,
"the left seems quite comfortable with Obama's frequent professions of faith and his devotion to Christ. Why is that?"

As a liberal suppporter of Obama and a non christian I can tell you emphatically for me it is neither of the snide and cynical reasons you suggest.

Take a look at the quotes from Obama in the article refereced by Patiotic at Reply 16.

Obmaa's faith is personal. It motivates him and guides him. However he does not presume to impose it on me. I can disagree with his religion but not let it influence my vote. I can vote for him (or not) based on his programs he proposes, with confidence that though the nature of many of them may be influenced by his christian faith he is not going to use the government to impose his faith on me or anyone else. He is not going to use his faith as a basis for who can serve in secular roles or to direct government agencies to support on faith over others.

To me, as a non-christian, I can respect him and his beliefs without worrying that he will try to establish any kind of "theocracy."

I did dislike Bush's approach to "faith based initiatives." The reason I disliked it was because the changes that Obama proposes were missing. That is why the author of this article is so myopic and cannot understand my point of view. The plan Obama is pushing is VERY DIFFERENT than Bush. If you miss that you are missing the very essence of why liberals like the change Obama promises on every governmental front.

JAG CA
So true! And anyone who would vote for this "Manchurian Candidate" are out of their minds!

Of course we know that Liberals have no mind of their own. These brainwashed, socialist, "Useful Idiots," truly believe they are intelligent and that their thoughts are their own. But nothing could be further from the truth. They are perfect examples of how well Brainwashing works.

Re: stacker
It's nice to know that liberal hypocrites are still out there and completely unashamed of their two faced approach to everything in life. The fact is that the faith based initiatives weren't for Christian organizations only. In fact they were open to all faiths. There are Islamic schools in Detroit that have gotten a fair amount of press recently that get a chunk of this money. There are Jewish organizations and Buddist organizations that get this cash as well.

Change, Hope & Rope-a-dope

Funny how the Lefties' rules change according to who is in power.

For example, Bill Clintoon deploys our troops all over the planet, and no one says "boo." Bush deploys our troops and the Left becomes apoplectic.

George Bush merely says that he can feel the prayers of his supporters, and the Lefties go insane over their fears he is going to create a theocracy.

But when the Lefties talk endlessly about their faith in the manner of Jimmuh Carter and Barak OBlahBlah, and they are perfectly happy.

Excuse me, but the last time I looked this was called hypocracy.

slacker slack off the send key
Don't even libs realize that you only have to hit the send key once.

Disagree with his religion?

His religion preaches that white America is trying to kill and imprison blacks. There are only two reasons a politican such as BO would belong to such a church.

1) Street cred in the ghetto showing he hates whitey as much as the next bro.
2) He and his wife are true believers who could never be proud of America.

The video of Father Phleger's recent racist rant about Hillary and America in general provided a glimse into the minds of the congregants at Trinity when they leaped for joy and shouted halleluja as Phleger gave his screed. The man who would be president of a "United" States was a financial backer and member of this mindless rable for over twenty years.

As an American I cannot respect anyone who belonged to a cult of racial hatred. A 20 year member of the KKK who says he never knew of his grand wizard's hatred of blacks would have as much credibility as BO.

Slacker, sigh!
Here's the problem with your observations. True Christians do not make up our beliefs as we go along. We read the Bible and we commit that to our hearts in faith to follow what it says rather than the dictates of our human reason or emotion. We can use both reason and emotion to understand Biblical premises, but the Biblical premises are the guiding light.

Therefore, it is not for me to say, in my own authority, what I believe or what is Biblical truth. God has already spoken in HIS authority and it is my job to obey.

Obama's religion (and I use that term deliberately rather than faith, because they are not the same thing) says we can all believe what we want to believe, cast God in whatever image we like, live however we like, abort babies up to the moment the mother goes into labor, and it's just fine. Well, that's not Christianity! Some other religions may have that sort of loosy-goosy standard whereby adherents can violate the premises of their beleif and not be out of alignment, but the Christian God is an intolerant sort of fellow and He has already spoken. Obama can call himself what he wants, but according to the Bible, he's not a Christian. That's not MY take on the issue. That's God's take on the issue as recorded in His Bible.

Paraphrasing Peter and John from Acts 4: "Is it right for us to obey God or men? We cannot keep from speaking what we know to be the truth."

DEAR SLACKER
Nice attempt to obfuscate the Chicago Sun-Times article.

All Christians believe that the only path to God (salvation) is through Jesus, not that other religions have alternate, acceptable paths to the same God (the gospel according to Obama).

The term Christian derives from the Greek Khristos, "anointed (one)" who is EXCLUSIVELY the savior of humankind. Call it "dogma" if you will, but without this central belief in Christ, one is not a Christian.

In addition, it appears that you failed to notice the naming of BO's spiritual mentors, Revs Wright, Pfleger, and Meeks (purveyors of Black Liberation Theology), in 2004, who now have been disavowed by BO in 2008.


Botttom line,

Obama cannot be trusted to do what he says. Obama cannot be trusted to tell the truth about his intentions. Obama is not trustworthy. If you want a fraud for POTUS, Obama is your man.

Just remember, Obama cannot be trusted.

JAG CA:AND, the hits just keep on comin'

Seems our Marxist Obama also got preferential treatment on his mortgage just as Dodd.



Obama is a Marxist
Marxism promotes leveling all personal and individual differences--no male or female, no success or failure, surely no black or white--and removing all private initiative and property in the name of the *people,* who are (temporarily) *governed* (oppressed) by various dictators who know *better* than what people want or can do themselves. It has been tried on a grand scale in the USSR and small scale in Cuba, but no matter where, it bankrupts nations, imprisons anyone who is not an automaton, and brutalizes and starves everyone else.

Obama has already spent decades of his life under the tutelage and mentorship of communists, racists, haters, and the political corruption of Chicago's Daley machine.

Somehow conservatives and Republicans have to unite enough to keep Obama out of the White House. Those of you thinking of voting for Barr or staying home will be acting just as if you pulled the lever for Obama.

slacker
writes, "That is why the author of this article is so myopic and cannot understand my point of view. The plan Obama is pushing is VERY DIFFERENT than Bush. If you miss that you are missing the very essence of why liberals like the change Obama promises on every governmental front."

Well said. I believe the author may, indeed, be missing the point. He is angry that Obama is given a free pass on the issue but, does not realize that Obama's program would undermine those faiths as part of the program. He would attempt to buy them off and corrupt them with federal money as someone else already stated. Thank you for proving the point. Remember the catholic adoption agency in Mass.?

Your cogent and thoughtful post is just the type of tripe we will be getting from the MSM until November. Obama will fool many. He has not fooled you, however, you are a full fledged supporter in all the same things he is.

reni: Excellent point. How frustrating

to see so many Republicans/Conservatives put the party before the welfare of the country.

And that's exactly what's happening.

We see that all the time with the dumbocrats, but I never thought I'd see that with the Republicans.


Which Marxist wrote the following?
"I think my party can be smug, detached and dogmatic at times. I believe in the free market, competition and entrepreneurship, and think no small number of government programs don't work as advertised ... I think America has more often been a force for good than for ill in the world; I carry few illusions about our enemies, and revere the courage and competence of our military. I reject a politics that is based solely on racial identity, gender identity, sexual orientation, or victimhood generally. I think much of what ails the inner city involves a breakdown in culture that will not be cured by money alone, and that our values and spiritual life matter at least as much as our GDP."


Oh gee, P Lib., Marxist Obama perhaps?

The SAME Marxist Obama who says whatever his audience wants to hear....

We're not all as gullible as you.....




Proud Liberal
I give up. Which one was it?

P. Lib.. Remember, Marxist Obama is

a lawyer, which means when his lips are moving, he's LYING!


manchurian candidate????
i keep hearing some conservatives refer to obama as a manchurian candidate.

obviously, it is a talking point from talk radio but it makes no sense.

in the book and the movie the manchurian candidate was a white american prisoner of war in an asian concentration camp where he was tortured and then brainwashed.

he then returns home and runs for office, eventually becoming a presidential candidate when his brainwashing kicks in and he subverts american democracy and hands us over to an asian country.

now which candidate most closely fits the description?

another thing
orrin hatch and harry reid and romney and his father attended mormon churches for decades BEFORE they eliminated the institutionalized racism in the church.

that happened in 1978.

prior to that the mormon church taught that blacks were an inferior race and that any mormon marrying a black should be killed.

so these politicians spent decades growing up in a church that was racist.

now are they racist?

i do not believe they are, just i don't believe obama is racist.

if obama is racist because of his church than so is orrin hatch.

if obama should have quit that church than hatch and romney should have quit theirs.

you cannot have it both ways on this issue.

What IS IT with these libs???

Somebody must have told them that there is no such thing as a STUPID QUESTION, and they all BELIEVED IT.


Obama's approach on this concerns me...
I can't help but think that he will try to use the Office of Faith-Based Initiatives as a way to control and regulate religious practices on the grounds that if the government is funding faith-based organizations it should have a say in how these organizations conduct their activities. And once you get into the government's pocket, your hand is held there by red tape and is nearly impossible to pull out.

maldain
Your response to my posts puzzles me. You claim I am a hypocrite and then tell me that some non-christian organiations get money from Bush's faith based initiative.

Fine. I never questioned whether they did or did not. I have never seen any breakdown of how much was handed out by the govt. and to which organizations it was given. Have you?

Anyway that was not my point. Nowhere in my posts did I complain about who the money was given to. I simply don't know.

Change, Hope & Rope-a-Dope part deux

The reason the Lefties don't get their knickers in a knot over Barak Obama's religious proclamations is that they know it is all a sham.

Mr. OBlahBlah believes in nothing but Karl Marx and bedtime with Michele.

Buck
Regarding the ears-- who do you think his daddy is-- Alfred E. Newman?

Jag CA
You seem to be concerned with the particular church Obama belongs to and a couple of you-tube videos you saw. Fine. Obama has said he doesn't agree with the sentiments on those videos either.

His membership in the church is a lot easier to understand than your convoluted thinking. Obama was a community organizer early in his career in Chicago. He had to work through churches, particularly black churches to accomplish anything. He joined the most powerful one in the community. That doesn't mean he agrees with everything any one in the pulpit says.

I also don't think a politician has to have the same religion or non religion as I do for me to vote for him or her. I also don't judge politicians on the religious beliefs of their endorsers but on what their policies are. Thus the fact that I disagree with what some of McCains evangelical supports say has nothing to do with whether I vote for him or not. Same with Obama.

b hussein and his belief system
all b hussein fully believes in is his lust for power. While there are many examples of b hussein associating and having very freindly relationships with those who dislke america and are either socialist or even communistic in their belief system there is little to indicate any true belief system,

We know he joined wright's church to find both his black identity and to set up a power base in his lust for power.

But as he has proven over and over again, there is no promise he won't make if he thinks he will garner a few more votes.

But his swing to the religious right certainly will make his leftists comrades uneasy but the religious right must also be wary of a woplf in sheep's clothing

Hitchhiker
Thanks for seeing my point.

I am sure we disagree on whether Obama's proposals and plan to exploit the infrastructure of faith based organizations to deliver them are "good" or "bad", but at least we see what is going on.

Debating over whether the MSM or the Huff Post reacts to Obama's plan the same way they reacted to Bush's is a waste of time. In fact if you go look at Huffington Post, there are plenty of liberals who dislike what they consider a "tack toward the center".

Fine. I happen to think it is a pretty slick move. Bush has put a program in place that Obama can start using from Day 1 to implement his objetives without having to build up and fund the infrastructure or get a new program passed through Congress. That is why it is smart.

Republicans should have thought about this when Bush first came up with the idea. It doesn't take a lot of brains to figure out that any new govt program the republicans initiate out of the white house when they are in charge will eventually be "tweaked" by a future democratic administration to adjust it to their political purposes instead. Creating such programs and then whining when democrats do exactly what any politician with a brain would do is just plain stupid.

For what it is worth, I think liberals who throw rocks at Obama for doing this are crazy and self destructive.

slacker #46: I'm going to try to explain

this as clearly and succinctly as possible...

Ready??

If Marxist Obama said he does not agree with the sentiments on those videos, then any reasonable and rational person would have to question WHY HE STAYED FOR TWENTY... that's 20 YEARS!

Yet, "Wright g-damAmerica" was not only his pastor, he was his MENTOR for most of those TWENTY YEARS!

Getting the picture here?

What's CONVOLUTED is his membership in the church, and his mentor, both of which he has now thrown "under the bus!"

That should tell you a little something about Marxist Obama and his character... or lack thereof.

Perhaps he did have to work through churches, particularly black churches to accomplish anything, BUT that does NOT mean he had to BELONG.

A lot of people work through churches they DO NOT BELONG to. Happens every day!

One does NOT stay with any church that one does not agree with.... perhaps not everything, but certainly the majority of what is taught.

He joined the most powerful BLACK CHURCH in the community because that helped him to his political career.

Most people don't judge politicians on the religious beliefs, except of course, Mitt Romney, and the MSM hammered him!



Proud Liberal
Re your post 33.

Sounds like pure unadulterated Barack Obama to me.

buck
i try to be very respectful on townhall because it is a conservative website and i am a visitor here.

i try not to call names or insult those i disagree with but you, sir, have crossed the line.

labeling someone a tarbaby is racist and i find it interesting that those who object to obamas
church as being racist support racist statements.

you can't have it both ways.

christianlib (#52: I AGREE 100%

I was absolutely floored when I saw that. Speechless!

Good call.


Obama will do want he wants to..
if elected. He is basically immune from criticism by the MSM so his promises today will mean nothing tomorrow. the problem we are faciing with such a man is that the people that support him are not listening to his words. What he has stated in the past is important today. He has blamed "the white man" for every evil in the world. He has written and spoke on this issue. Now that he is running for president his words of the past are being ignored. If and when he is elected and our rights start to disappear it may be too late. From my perspective he is a potential dictator.

This is just the beginning, folks.......
Per GOPUSA Friends:

"According to Lee Cary with the conservative blog AmericanThinker.com, Senator Barack Obama's $845 billion United Nations-inspired give away of your hard-earned money may be coming up for a vote SOON.

" 'The Global Poverty Act of 2007 (S.2433) is coming up for a Senate vote sometime after the July 4 recess, according the office of Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison. Once Harry Reid and the Democrat leadership put it on the calendar, we could have as little as a week to prepare for the vote.' "

"Cary wrote that report just days ago on June 26th. And while we have not yet been able to confirm his report, we HAVE seen a renewed SURGE of activity by groups on the far-Left to push a vote on the Global Poverty Act."

DID YOU GET THAT? "Senator Barack Obama's $845 billion United Nations-inspired give away of your hard-earned money may be coming up for a vote SOON."

Not Pres.Bush's spending... Senator Obama's, and it OUR HARD EARNED MONEY!

Just a little preview of things to come should our Marxit friends be elected!

Anne
thanks,

i know we rarely agree but i believe we are both good people.

i just couldn't let that statement stand without responding to it.

Who cares
what Obama embraces. There is only one TRUE King....the rest are impostors!

Anne
I understand that many people believe that Obama should have left the church as soon as he heard about Wright's anti American harrangue.

I don't agree with Wright, and wouldn't belong to an organization he ran after hearing the you tube video. I agree with you he belonged at least in part because it was a way to get things done.

Its not enough to make me not vote for Obama. I don't think Obama believes the same things Wright believes. Why??? Because: Wright was his RELIGIOUS MENTOR not his POLITICAL mentor. I have read one of Obama's books and most of his speeches and have not found any evidence what so ever that he does.

If anyone can point to a verifiable quote from Obama (not something someone else just says Obama believes) that is inconsistent with my viewpoint I will change my mind. But all I have seen is a lot of posts saying Obama believes things that he has never said with no evidence presented whatsoever.

That Obama "threw Wright under the bus" when he offered Wright an olive branch ("lets disagree on this g-d America stuff, lets each explain our own positions clearly and leave it at that") and Wright just threw it right in his face is to Obama's credit. I would have thought Obama a complete wimp if he had not thrown him under the bus at that point.

McCain has done pretty much the same thing with evangelicals that have "dissed" him. Remember the "agents of intolerance" speach?

Patriotic
Your post #27 does not ring true to me.

You say,
"All Christians believe that the only path to God (salvation) is through Jesus, not that other religions have alternate, acceptable paths to the same God (the gospel according to Obama)."

Not being a christian myself I really don't care what the exact definition of it is. However, many people who at least go faithfully to christian churces have told me these things are required to become a christian:
1) become a follower of Jesus and his teachings
2) believe that Jesus is your "savior" and offers you some kind of pleasant life after physical death.
3) believe that jesus died physically on the cross and was resurrected later, and that this act "atoned" for the past and future sins of people who accept him as their "savior".

Perhaps you are right that all christian churches require you to renounce any other path to "salvation". However the exclusivity of the Muslim faith and that Mohmmed is god's only prophet or path to god is one of the more abhorrent aspects of that abominable religion.

I am sorry to hear that christianity is just as intollerant in your mind. I know a lot of christians I respect and none of them are this itollerant. Perhaps you are in the thrall of some borderline cult?

Sorry slacker: Not after 20 YEARS!

Perhaps a year... or two... or three, but NOT 20 years.

I understand that even Oprah left after a few years.

It all seems to fit a pattern with Marxist Obama. He says what's expedient and beneficial to HIM depending on who he's talking to, and we've seen it time and time and time again.

Aside from the fact that I disagree with his ideology, Marxist Obama has made it all too clear that he cannot be trusted.

He's "flip-flopped" so many times he makes Kerry look like a shoe that's tied up to the knee, and clinton look like (God forgive me) an almost honest man.



anne,

While you are telling others you are a good person the facts are something much different.

You are nothing more than a hectoring harridanwho feels an never ending desire to attack any who either disagree with yoiu are posts something your dislike.

You attempts to destroy those who were formerly your friends has made you in essence nothing more than a pariah. You have posted yopur fabricated story to turn yourself into a victim under attack from others.

The truth remains that you are are a bitter older women who can't get over her failed relationships and her inability to find a job that uses your supposed skills.

But taking out your unhappiness on others is a poor attempt at finding some self esteeem. Alas when all is said and done you must look at yourself in the mirror and I doubt you like what your see.

Fortunately for others we don't have to live with you to have to endure your bitterness. While others may sympathise with you, if they knew how your true lack of compassion for others and the self pity you foist on others they would likewise hold you in the same contempt you show for others.

But enjoy your misery. You deserve you

Right on Anne
Amen to your 2:17 post.

When Mrs BO spends twenty years with her butt in Trinity's pews it comes as no surprise that she can state in a public forum that "for the first time in my adult life I am proud to be an American."

When the man BO describes as his spiritual mentor is filled with racial hate and bigotry BO has alot more explaining to do than to say Rev Wrong and my grandma cracker are both racists and I still love both of them.

The moral equivalence of these two individuals in BO's mind makes his lack of any moral compass evident to all.

With All Respect to Dr. Kengor
I don't object on first amendment grounds, but IMHO it leads to the kind of politicking from the pulpit we have seen with Rev. Wright. When government doles out money to religious or any institution, the party in power will determine who gets the dough. Do we want churches evaluated and vetted based on their political messages? I don't want my church concerned with politics at all. I had enough liberation theology preached by communist clergy in college to last me a lifetime. Churches will pervert their core values to get more government money. And, Dr. Kengor, do you want the Jeremiah Wrights of the world heading up such initiatives? I don't. Nor do I want the catholic church aiding and abetting illegal immigration contrary to the majority of its members under the guise of "charity". I certainly don't want the catholic church getting a dime of public funds for anything. Let it sell a few Vatican treasures if it is serious about accomplishing the work of Christ on earth. Ha!

Churches are already free to solicit funds to cure all of the world's ills and to make their charitable efforts more effective, we give them tax-exempt status. Government should never be involved in social programs of any kind. That should be left to charitable institutions whether religiously-based or secular. It's dangerous ground and can only lead to increasing religious corruption and more and more government corruption.


Liberals and the Kingdom of God…

“Why did Jesus Christ not succeed thus far in moving the world to do what He has said?...I come with a practical plan to perform His purposes.” –Woodrow Wilson, 1918


We thank President Wilson for stating the liberal view of the kingdom. Jesus Christ is a failure. His promises cannot be trusted. The state is here to implement a ‘practical’ plan to bring in the Kingdom of God on earth. Obamaism and the social gospel are nothing new.

Liberals like Wilson and Obama neglect the priority of the kingdom. In their view of man his problem is not sin; man has no need of righteousness. They think man can be perfected by meeting his physical and educational needs, and they can do it better than the church.

Where does such errors originate? Christ told Pilate that His kingdom was not of this world. He told His people to ‘seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness…’ [Matthew 6:33]. The apostle tells us plainly that the ‘kingdom is…righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit’ [Romans 14:17].

When liberals say they want separation of church and state, they do not mean a free church and a free state as the Founders meant. They want to separate the church from its legitimate role of benevolence and take it on themselves. They presume to know the purposes of God and have a ‘practical’ plan to perform them.

Would to God that liberals leave the roles of God and church to the rightful owners.

Buck- inquiring voters

I doubt that I will ever be inquiring enough to peek at Barak-Back Obama in the shower.

Viggo Mortensen in the steamroom... now that is a different story!!!

P.S. Buck

I have heard that, like Obama, Adolph Hitler had a personality change when he addressed the crowd.

Freaky huh?

I wonder what spirit is indwelling him?

Slacker
Our belief that salvation is thru Jesus Christ only is not intolerance,it is the basis of our faith. We also believe that we are to hate the sin,but love the sinner.That is not intolerance,that is love.

Sandy,
You can believe in anything you want. I agree with you that beliefs by themselves without action are intolerant. I think your belief is silly and is not grounded in reality. Hopefully you will agree that is also NOT intolerant by itself. I have no interest in changing your beliefs.

What IS intolerance is insisting that other people are "bad", "evil", "godless", "unpatriotic", enemies to be ostracized, purged from elective office, or even destroyed etc. when they don't believe the same thing you do. That is what extremist Muslims do. I hope it is not what "christians" do.

aurorawatcher
There are many religions. Most of them teach their followers that they have a monopoly on truth. Some followers actually believe that their religion really is the one true religion.

There is no way to verify or disprove such claims. Thus, each individual must make up their own mind what they believe and which religion works for them.

Romney, Leiberman, and Obama all seem to have different beliefs than you, though I think Obama is far closer to your viewpoint that Romney.

I still see no reason other than prejudice, ignorance, or intolerance that a person would not vote for Romney because he is a morman, Leiberman because he is a jew, or Obama because he is a christian. Nor do I see any value in debating whether Romney is a true morman, Leiberman a true jew, or Obama is a true chrstian when deciding who to vote for.

Mark my words. When Obama is elected President, there will be no shortage of churches that emphatically believe they are christian that would love to include him and his family as members. Who am I as a non christian or you as a member of a different church to say they should not admit Obama as a member.

Brujo Blanco
You say Obama
"... has blamed "the white man" for every evil in the world. He has written and spoke on this issue."

Where on earth did Obama say any of that? You can provide NO EVIDENCE of Obama saying anything but the OPPOSITE of that. Evan McCain doesn't claim that Obama ever said any such thing. If he had NOONE, INCLUDING ME, would vote for him.

So if you want another vote for McCain give me one verifiable quote from Obama where he said what you say he has said. I promise to vote for McCain if you do.

But you can't and won't.

See, this is why Obama will win. Either conservatives like you are intentionally lying when you make such claims or you are complete fools. In either case people see through it and you lose votes for McCain.

More for the buck!!!
It is a proven fact that their are a lot of programs out there run by churches, and the amount of money out of every dollar donated is a higher percent than especially if it is government run program.I know when Katrina hit there were churches that were their to help clean up and provide food and clothing. I had a left leaning liberal tell me that he didn't like President Bush to receive direction from his father, and he said it was no his eartly father but a higher power. To that I say Praise the Lord.

Anne
In post 58, you say Obama has

"flip-flopped so many times he makes Kerry look like a shoe that's tied up to the knee"

Very cute. I will give you he flipped on the issue of public funding for the election campaign.

Other than that, what issue has he "flipped" on where he significantly changed his position in ways that you don't like? If you do the work and look at his actual stated position prior to and after the alleged "flip."

FISA? You and hard left liberal democrats are splitting hairs if you call this a flip. You are siding with Dodd and Feingold against Obama and Pelosi that the new version of FISA provides insufficient court review of cases against telco companies and too much power to the President for authorizing wire taps.

Faith based Initiatives...? I don't see any flip here.

War in Iraq? He said he is going to give a mission to the military to get our troops out in 16 months or so and work with them to get it done so we can beef up our mission in Afghanistan. No flip here.

slacker
what a surprise. Another black defending b hussein. Why would anyone expect you to question anything that comes from the dim party

But then again why would anyone be surprised that blacks ever stray from the dim party. They have been on the recieving end of entitlements for so long all they know is we will believe any lie put out by the dims and continue to vote for the party that keeps us in virtual bondage.

Expecting blacks to act in their own best interest and get away from the dims is something that will never ocur. The blacks have been bought and paid for by the dims and they know it

sure, obama likes faith based initiative
one of the first things he will do is funnel piles of money to his old, long time communist buddies back in chicago that used churches and community outreach programs to entrench and expand their communistic ideals. and obama was deeply involved with them.
one of these days we will have to rename this country the United Socialistic States of America.

Tom Quigley

You aren't really Tom Selleck are you?

Anne's attitude
Sorry Annes Attitude - I wasn't speaking to you, but to Anne in Va.

Your posts are simply too bizarre for me to comment on. The reason is that you seem to be mentally ill and off your meds, immensely handicapped intellectually, or both. In either case I have no interest in engaging with you, so please ignore any posts from me. Just skip over them, close your eyes and go silently back to that hideous dream world you live in.

Religious Left, Religious Right both bad
Columnist Dr. Kwengor has a point. As a secularist and libertarian, I don't like the ideea of the Religious Left reaching into my wallet any more than I like the Religious Right peeking into my bedroom. And I'm certainly not thrilled with Barack Obama wearing his religion on his sleeve and vowing to entangle religion and government still more. It seems we do not have a major party candidate to choose who understands the First Amendment and separation of church and state (which is not a "myth").

But you Christians who have cheered for Pres. Bush's public shows of religiosity and "faith-based initiatives" should recognize that you are reaping what you have sown. When you invite politicians to inject their religion into government-- and to force their preferred religious practices upon others, ultimately at gunpoint-- you shouldn't count on only those who share *your* beliefs-- either religious or political-- getting the chance to do that.


Slacker
Yes it was Obama, post 33.

What we see in response is the old "if you show me a fact that disagrees with my existing bias I'll just ignore the fact, or slime the fact, or 'yes but' the fact, but I certainly won't change my mind when introduced to a fact."

I've recently decided that conservatives have what psychiatrists term a "well-defined paranoia." Which basically says that conservatives have a well defined way of getting rid of facts which challenge their view of the world. By calling Obama a flip-flopper, or a liar or a Marxist or challenging his character in some other manner - all of these deflections developed and waiting within the matrix of their well defined paranoia, they can deflect any possible fact one could throw their way. Also called a "defense mechanism," which really is meant to preserve what sanity they have, so as a good person I really wouldn't want to destroy that paranoia since it functions to do them so much good.

slacker
Ypou remain a pitiful loser who can't climb off the cross of victimization. But you prove that you are the one3 incapable of accomplishing on your own.

You cintinue to show up telling all of b hussein's brilliance. Obviously you are too delusional to understand that someone can be neither great or magnificent until they actually accomplish something.

The notion that he will be a great president will never bee seen as he will not win the election despite the fact he is your undying hero.

B hussein remains nothing more that the typical status quop dim who promises more tax and spend programs. He has pledged his loyalty to the unions, the teachers and the trial lawyers.

He wants to give the UN an additional $1 trillion of us taxpayers money as if that corrupt body of third rate dictators has ever accomplished anything.

But it is simple minded people like you paying either little or no taxes who think you will be getting more handouts and bigger entitlement programs.

Have you aever actually accomplished anything withoput govt help or preferential hiring. But it is you who refuses to address reality. B hussein is a pathetic fraud that has resorted to telling every audience what they want to hear. But all you needed to state was I am black and that is the only reason I will vote for b hussein. I am incapable of making my own decisions and need the dims to run my life. I am too stupid to take care of my self or take care of my own needs


I have to take
issue with the author throwing out the separation of church and state fallacy. It's one of those statements that have been made so often, people now believe it. For one, those words do not appear anywhere in the Constitution. Secondly, the Founding Fathers meant it to mean the gov't would not force a particular DENOMINATION, such as Methodist or Lutheran, etc. They had no problem with God and the Bible being the central points of gov't and the culture. If anyone of the parrots would read up on the history of our nation, it is clear that it is intertwined with Christianity and meant to be that way. It's one thing if you don't like our Constitution as it was written, but stop the lies and quit being so ignorant!

Dubious Past Gives Rational Person Pause
Raised by, mentored by, and for 20 years pastored by Muslim's, Communists and anti-American zealots, I find it absolutely amazing that Obamma is suddenly all Christian all the time and loves the America his own wife finds offensive. That should give any prudent person reason for skepticism about Obamma's true ideological leanings and incessant babbling on the subject.

Dubious Past Gives Rational Person Pause
Raised by, mentored by, and for 20 years pastored by Muslim's, Communists and anti-American zealots, I find it absolutely amazing that Obamma is suddenly all Christian all the time and loves the America his own wife finds offensive. That should give any prudent person reason for skepticism about Obamma's true ideological leanings and incessant babbling on the subject.

Huckabee Can't, But Obama Can
Huckabee was derided incessantly during the primary season because he firmly stated that his faith defined him. Networds were quick to get people on air saying "We aren't voting for a Pastor in Chief", yet Obama can be a "Christian" whose faith informs him and it is celebrated.

Huckabee said repeatedly that he had no intention of imposing his faith on anyone else if elected and was ridiculed. Barack says it and it is widely accepted.

Meanwhile the focus is off of Obama's lack of executive experience. Pathetic.

Read Huckabee's book, "From Hope to Higher Ground" - whether you are religious or not and then try to convince me this guy doesn't "get it" with respect to what this country needs to be greater than it is today.

Robert - Overlord29
So... it's okay to change the laws and the country to fit the beliefs of the secular, but people of faith should stay in their churches (and out of political discourse) because their beliefs are grounded in their religion.

That's as lame as the day is long... each person is entitled to the opportunity to influence public policy regardless of the source of their position.

BTW, who are the right wingers that seek 'to force its religious views on the country or the government?'

Hey Robert,
Did I say anything was forced? Those are your words. Our Founding Fathers did it voluntarily with a 97% Christian population in agreement. It is you who are ignorant of our nation's history and I'm guessing, willfully so. I give you an F.

And before Robert
spews more ignorance, why is God mentioned in the Constitution? Why did prayer exist in schools from our nation's birth until 1962, when 5 judges declred it unconstitutional? Why was it a requirement for congressional appointees to state a belief in the God of the Bible in colonial times? Why did the state Constitution of Delaware in 1776 affirm a belief in God and Christ in it's opening lines? Wait before you give your kneejerk disapproval and actually look these things up, then we'll see who's telling the truth here.

Well Robert,
See, I'm talking about the Constitution as it was written. Your argument is based only on your opinion. I guess you didn't bother to look up those facts I stated, which can only mean you have no argument besides your opinion and you know what they say about opinions....

Robert,
I see you didn't look up my facts but instead chose to give only your opinion, so you see, I was correct - you ARE willfully ignorant.

One more thing Robert,
"Chris this isnt that nutty
idea of how Darwin changed the way the American people look at The Constitution is it? Wow if it is, you are way out there."

I was talking about school prayer being declared unconstitutional in 1962. Can you not read before you spew? Your response was indeed "out there". But I can see that trying to present a factual and truthful debate is meaningless on you, so away with you! I won't waste my time again.

Robert
writes, "I think most people for instance who supported the Iraq war...are going to have a lot of explaining to do to God as to why."

I supported the war and continue to do so. I supported it long before Bush was elected to office and the so called neocons pushed the idea. I thought GHWB made a huge mistake in 1991. I was for taking down Saddam Hussein before he invaded Kuwait. A war monger? I don't think so. And, I have no problem justifying my support to the Almighty. If the governor of California was riding roughshod over the people killing and looting at will, if he had two sons trolling LA for young girls to kidnap, rape, and dump for sport then I would support taking his @ss out also.

Robert
Illegal in a moral world and immoral?

Is war ever legal? I really don't care. Is it immoral? That is the only question that matters, and that is a value judgment. Our fore fathers believed it moral in what many might consider far murkier circumstances. By what criteria would you consider war moral if any?

Robert
We have seen enough of each other's posts to dispense with arguing the Iraq war again. Let's stick to the narrower topic in my previous post. When is war moral?

Barack Obama Embraces Theo-crazy
Yeah, Cartoon man theocrazy, alright. Another name for it is (Black) Liberation Theology. "Black nationalists" and "progressive"liberals are all clamoring to become members of his "church" to bask in his flowery rhetoric.

He has prepared many more sermons for them, should he get elected.

1st Sundays: You can take communion at the alter of Obamanation.

2nd Sundays: Planned Parenthood Women's day; Abortions in the Fellowship Hall immediately after service.

3rd Sundays: Guest Speakers' Day, including: Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farakan, Muktahar Al-Sadr, Father Pleger,and James H. Cone

4th Sundays: Homosexual Weddings will be peformed
with the newlywed couples each receiving a lifetime supply of fruit-flavored condoms & a free AIDS test.

Those of you not able to attend in person, do not be dismayed.

Thanks to the mainstream media, the whole performance will be televised without commercial interruption.


Robert
writes, "n Iraq Mr. Bush having picked a fight with Saddam then sought to completly remake the country...and until "the surge" didnt do it very well.

War is moral or immoral based on why one fights it. That is what seperates the US from everyone else."

I won't bother with Franklin's little Iran/Contra scheme because I agreed with it and Reagan's. I also won't discuss the lack of threat from Germany or Italy. That they were a threat to their neighbors is enough. I will grant you that this one is different from all the others but, then aren't they all? Suffice to say that if Saddam's record does not equal a high enough burden to warrant intervention, then nothing ever will. Myself, the burden is lower than that. How much? I don't even know the answer to that question. I do know that if we are not the world's policeman, then the world is lacking law and order because no one else is filling that role. To squirm out of our responsibility is to condemn millions if not billions.

Will the Girlie Men Defend America
I wonder if the effeminate gay rights/gay marriage girlie men will be willing to join the Armed Forces of America they so despise,to protect their "free-ee-doms" when the intolerant Jihadi armies of Islam come to power and introduce their Sharia law on Berkeley and San Fransissy-o.

They're so pe-ea-eace-ful and sen-si-tive and anti-war.

I suspect they will just bend over and spread 'em, screaming "piece!, piece!, piece!...before the "Holy Warriors" cut their stupid throats.

...After all, what true "progressive"-minded liberal girlie man would want to join the mean 'ole murderous U.S. military?

I mean, WE'RE the bad guys!

Overlord 29
Yeah, Robert, but they're real girls.. unlike you and all the others who pretend they are.

Overlord 29
The Constitution gaurantees your freedom...you have to earn your own success.

That's the bill of goods the Socialists in the Democrat Party have been selling to you mindless liberals...

"I'm Barack "The Messiah-lib" and I'm going to give every American SUCCESS!

Your comment proves it: Liberalism is a mental disorder.

You and people like you are weak-minded to think that the government can GIVE you anything.

The opportunity for SUCCESS is greater in this country than in any country today, and than in any country in the HISTORY of the world.

It's people like YOU, with your hand out begging that are destroying it...

...not the brave men and women who put their lives on the line EVERYDAY to make it possible for you to sit on your duff waiting for the Socialists in Congress or the White House to give it to you.

Anne's attitude
I should ignore your rants which are devoid of facts. However your posts referring to the Global Poverty Act (S.2443) as a sending a trillion dollars to the UN are just insane.

I wish conservatives would at least check facts before they make crazy, wild assertions. But perhaps they are so desperate all they can do is shout lies at the top of their voice.

I have to dispel this outrageous lie....

LIE: The Global Poverty Act would commit the U.S. to spending 0.7 percent of its gross national product on foreign aid. This would require a new tax on all Americans.

THE TRUTH: The legislation neither authorizes nor obligates the federal government to spend more money. It puts our current foreign aid programs into a comprehensive
strategy involving trade policy, debt cancellation, and private sector efforts to ensure that existing U.S. programs
are more effective and efficient. The legislation calls for a strategy to determine the right mix of aid, trade and debt policies and investment. The strategy also includes the private sector, civil society organizations, and the developing countries themselves as critical components in global development.

The Congressional Budget Office has estimated the bill would cost less than $1 million to implement.

GET THAT: The CBO estimated the bill would cost less than $1 Million to impleent.

BARACK'S ATTITUDE TOWARD FAITH COUNTS!
Barry spoke in support of his cousin's (Raila Odinga) election while in Nairobi, Kenya in 2006. Odinga was (and is) a militant Muslim. His Orange Democratic Movement party is responsible for at least 700 civilian deaths since the beginning of this year.

This should be required reading from the MSM for anyone contemplating voting for BO:


http://www.nysun.com/opinion/kenya-connection/69273/
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