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Sunday, March 11, 2007
Dr. Paul  Kengor :: Townhall.com Columnist
Hating Rick
by Dr. Paul Kengor
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Back in November, on the heels of the landslide defeat of Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA) by Democratic challenger Bob Casey, Jr., I wrote an article recalling the first time I met Santorum. I intended the piece to be a personal recollection, with some analysis of polling data, and concluding with the point that Santorum—despite the crushing margin—should never be underestimated. This is a man capable of surprising victories.

The article was carried by several local and national sources, including the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. I didn’t expect much feedback, figuring I hadn’t said anything notably controversial. Boy, was I wrong.

My email box was flooded with the angriest collection of emails I’ve ever received from any article. Some of the emails were thoughtful, including a dialogue that followed with a Pitt professor. Most, however, were filled with animosity toward Santorum and at me for not appreciating the vituperation against the man. Yes, the emailers were mostly Democrats, but there was a strong contingent of disaffected Republicans.

By the time I got to roughly the 30th email, a Pittsburgher who lectured me, “You don’t understand how much people hate this guy,” I realized I had misread the electorate. So, I began surveying the emailers: What was it about Santorum that triggered such visceral rejection?

I found that some of the opposition was policy related—his conservatism, his unflagging position as the leading voice for life and against abortion in the Senate, his closeness to President Bush’s policies, especially concerning Iraq. Yet, most of the opposition was personal; these people simply didn’t like the guy. The central reason was Santorum’s alleged “hypocrisy”: whether this involved how he schooled his children or that he moved his family from Mt. Lebanon to Washington, which had once been a campaign issue he used to win a congressional seat (and which I had thought he explained adequately). More, the Casey campaign ad that excoriated Santorum for daring to argue that not all moms necessarily needed to go to work, was enormously damaging. “He doesn’t like working moms!” shouted one emailer.

Even now, the dislike appears to not be going away, much like the double-digit deficit Santorum was never able to dent against Casey.

Indeed, a friend last week handed me an op-ed by Reg Henry, a columnist syndicated by Scripps Howard News Service, titled, “Santorum goes into the tank.” Here was another reaction to Santorum that stunned me—placed, ironically, under a cartoon of Richard Nixon, a man who once said, “Always remember, others may hate you, but those who hate you don’t win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself.”

The writer focused on the recent news that Santorum, like many out-of-office politicians, had joined a think-tank—the respected Ethics and Public Policy Center. The article made fun of Santorum, celebrating that at least he is “off the streets.” The former senator, wrote the columnist, “will be in his element in the think tank, doing his blowfish impersonation of Winston Churchill warning of the gathering storm.” The writer made clear that he feels Rick is no Winston, but advised that the former senator could learn a valuable tip from the late prime minister: “Churchill was also tanked in the alcoholic sense, which could be a good tip to Santorum when the keepers [at the think ‘tank’] bring round the sherry.”

Henry also expressed these sentiments, which hit at the crux of much of the opposition to Santorum:

“The thoughtarium that will house the bounding ex-senator … describes itself on its web site as ‘dedicated to applying the Judeo-Christian moral tradition to critical issues of public policy.’ If this moral tradition includes beating swords into plowshares, Santorum may find himself swimming against the tide, because he is more killer whale than frolicking dolphin. He probably doesn’t have to worry. In many overly piously precincts, the love-thy-neighbor part of the Gospel has been conveniently forgotten. And, indeed, the think tank announced that as a senior fellow Santorum would be establishing and directing a program titled ‘America’s Enemies.’ … No comedian could make up this assignment. It is irony and aptness, it is another proof that there is an Almighty and he has a sense of humor.”

The writer was symptomatic of Santorum’s detractors: It is indeed this absolutism that drives Santorum’s critics wild—and the perception that he pursues such absolutism with a snarl instead of a smile. Liberals, even secular ones, welcome the application of the Christian Gospel to issues like the environment and minimum wage, but when a conservative Republican like Rick Santorum applies those teachings to things like unborn babies … well, that’s a bit overly pious.

That said, the writer nailed the biggest problem Santorum faces: how he is perceived. Personality matters in politics. You can see it in how the public preferred Kennedy over Nixon, Reagan over Carter, and Clinton over Dole.

While my understanding of Santorum has undergone some course readjustments, I stick to my previous estimation: If ever there was a politician who can make a comeback, even from a 19-point defeat, it is Rick Santorum—at least at the national level. First, however, he has some work to do not so much on policy but perception.

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About The Author
Dr. Paul Kengor, author of spiritual biographies of Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush, has just published God and Hillary Clinton and The Judge: William P. Clark, Ronald Reagan's Top Hand. He is a professor of political science and executive director of the Center for Vision & Values at Grove City College.

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It doesn't matter
If Rick Santorum is the adult we think he is.

If the electorate is composed of children, then it is children who will do the deciding as to who will represent them.

I Agree
Bipsy nailed it. Patrick Kennedy continues to get elected by the children of Rhode Island, Teddy is the choice of MAs children, and the kiddies of PA are unlikely to suddenly grow up and love Rick Santorum. Why is not as important as the reality.

Embarassed Pennsylvanian
I grew up in Central PA and left in 69 after Vietnam. I am embarassed that the state has leaders like Specter and Murtha. One a RINO the other just an idiot. Yet, the fools keep electing them. If Rick Santorumn runs for Pres he has my vote.

Kennedy vs Nixon
The comparison is a bit bogus, as Nixon would have won in 1960 if it weren't for ballot stuffing done in Chicago by the political machine of the late Mayor Richard Daly.

Rick is better than the people
who voted against him. Had I lived in Pennsylvania, I would have happily supported him. I always sent donations to him from New York. Casey is an empty suit who is living off his father's memory. The hatred leveled at Rick is very sad. He is an exemplary father and husband. Very, very sad. He was/is great on the right to life issue, a man who went to the mat to save the babies.

I would
Vote for Santorumn in a heartbeat. We keep calling for a Conservative leader and we could have one.
Just his stance on immigration is enough for me.

Now, that I think about it,
it must be flattering to have so many "academics" hate you since they represent the worst brainwashed lefty elements of society. As for the "disaffected" Republicans, it is because Rick supported Specter. That was a mistake, but Rick may have felt that he owed it to the unworthy Arlen. Even Toomey told people to support Rick. I believe the loss was not by 19% but by 12% - which is still bad, but not as bad or am I wrong on this figure?

Rick seems comfortable in his own skin
Santorum projects a moral certainty about his views that is guaranteed to drive postmodernists mad because they believe that we construct our own reality. Santorum realizes there are absolutes in life, there is good and evil, and there are facts, not feelings. That's what I like about the guy. If he was running in NC, I would vote for him in a minute. In fact, he ought to consider getting into the presidential race. He would be a refreshing addition to the tired choices we have right now. I was pleased to see him pop up on Fox News as a contributor. But it's a sad day when a man who obviously lives his principles, like Bush and Santorum, are vilified so thorougly and constantly in the press. It says more about us as a nation than it does about them.

Politics Over Principle
I genuinely like Mr. Santorum and his conservative principles. I did not, however, vote for him in the '06 election, preferring to not cast a vote for the office rather than choose between Mr. Santorum and Mr. Casey.

That decision was made two years earlier when another conservative Republican, Pat Toomey, ran against Mr. Specter in the primary election. Rather than support a real conservative, or even just remain in the background, Mr. Santorum chose to actively support Mr. Specter's campaign. I will not forgive nor forget that choice.

If Mr. Santorum is willing to place political expediency above principle, he will never have my support.

A disaffected libertarian
I guess I'm one of those "disaffected Republicans" Dr. Kengor refers to, regarding ex-Sen. Santorum. Actually, I don't precisely consider myself to be a card-carrying Republican, but I do frequently vote Republican, and I've almost never in my whole life voted Democratic. However, if I had been a Pennsylvania resident and voter in the recent election, I would have voted for the Democratic Senatorial candidate. Though I've been unhappy with many Republicans lately, Santorum was the only GOP'er I was actually glad to see defeated.

Why? Not because I feel any personal hatred for him, contrary to what Dr. Kengor suggests. From what I can tell, Santorum is a sincere and decent man, with many admirable traits.

However... the Republican Party is supposed to be a coalition between several groups, including social/religious conservatives and also libertarians-- people who believe in limited Constitutional government, low taxes, and reduced government involvement in nearly al areas of people's lives. One way to put it might be that libertarians don't want government reaching into their pockets, but also don't want govt. peeking into their bedrooms. I'm a libertarian-- more moderate than some of the extreme purists who dream of eliminating government altogether, but still a libertarian. Many Republicans, unfortunately, have paid only lip service to libertarian limited-government ideas, while promoting big government in their actions.

But Santorum is the only prominent Republican I know of who has *explicitly* rejected libertarianism; who has said he does *not* believe in government leaving people alone to live their lives as they choose; who has said he wants *more* and bigger government for the purpose of coercing people to make the sort of "cultural" choices he wants them to make and live as he would have them live. Now again, I'm sure Santorum is well-intentioned, sincerely believing the choices he wants to force on people are best for them (just like many big-government liberals are well-intentioned and believe *their* choices are best). But I for one don't want to be drafted into a "culture war" or live in a theocracy or culturally authoritarian state, however benevolent it conceives itself to be.

So the way I figure it, if libertarians want to have any influence at all in the Republican coalition, they need to make clear there is a price to be paid for Republicans thumbing their noses at libertarian ideas and catering only to social/religious/authoritarian conservatives. Libertarians exacted that price by helping to defeat Santorum (and, more directly, when the Libertarian Party vote in a couple of states arguably tipped the Senate election to the Democrats). I hope other Republicans will heed the warning.

"Rand"y is right - it says more about us
Like all spoiled children, lefty boomers hate being told they are wrong. They especially hate being told they are wrong when they can't argue with the Rulemaker. In college, they argued with Authority and Authority caved in. They now expect this from all Authority. When they demand to know (as children do) "Who sezs!", they expect confirmation of their infantile needs. They want an answer that's crafted for them and, as it were, hand delivered. They expect that answer to make sense to them because Authority has been re-drafting answers so as to appeal to them throughout their lives. But this time the Rulemaker doesn't owe them more of an answer than he has already given to all humanity that ever was or ever will be.

Consider the 21-week baby
Since a baby gestated 21 weeks was born and is evidently healthy and not on pure oxygen, we may all have to reconsider abortion. As a woman, I am not inclined to change the time of the third trimester as a period when pregnancy termination can be legally executed, but now any time much after the first trimester looks more and more like simply murder. Since idiot schools and the lamebrained-media have been teaching any kind of values are antithetical to "liberation," someone who espouses strong views has to be demonized and debased, esp. by so-called academia where anything deviating from leftist talking pts. is considered a hanging offense. Santorum is a relatively young man and in a society where mortality moves higher practically by the year, he has a long time to decide whether he wants a return to PA politics or not. After all, in NJ, the electorate voted for Lautenberg long years after he retired because the average Dem. voter thought he was still his/her senator. He could've been dead, for all many voters knew. Unfortunately, hatred seems particularly popular among the Dems. and the left. They have all that they hate, and can boast abortion, the gay agenda, eternal racial conflict, and various anti-Americanism. What a display. No wonder they are so popular. What's not to like. Except for emotional pathology and the military humiliation they are planning, that could well bring lousy economics, a coming recession, high interest rates, high inflation, and high unemployment. They must envision this future, as it's exactly what they got after they engineered the end of Vietnam. But, of course, it won't be their fault. It wasn't under Carter, because the lamebrain press won't report it, and so it won't be under whatever permutation they present for the 2008 election. Somebody afraid to face Fox News, evidently. Courageous leaders all.

For disaffected Libertarians like WRH
The only way your argument hangs together is if killing an unborn child is among those “cultural” choices you think Santorum wants to shove down our throats. I think this is why Libertarianism always falls short for me. I want a government that actually does something about murder, apprehends murderers and protects the rest of us from the depraved. That requires a government that is both confident of its values and sufficiently muscular. We are social beings that are meant to live together, but this is impossible if our fundamental values are in conflict. In the end, if a nation has no values or bad values it isn’t worth having no matter how much autonomy it grants the individual. Finally, this simply must have occurred to you: When you petulantly reject a conservative like Santorum only to gain a Democrat that takes more of your income and consciously seeks a more intrusive government, you can hardly claim to have struck a blow for Libertarianism.

I don't understand

I never heard an untoward word about "Santy", not even from friends that I know that live in Pa. But the fact of the matter is that if the Dems were going to win the Senate, they needed that seat so they brought out the big guns to bring hate and discontent on his head.

People there didn't know they hated him until they were told to (or browbeaten into it). He will make a fine presidential candidate, certainly better than the GOP has out running now.

A fine specimen
Santorum is a fine specimen of Republican sleeze. He ran on a morals platform but his main accomplishment was the K Street project. One day he was boasting about it, the next he was denying it existed.

Why is it so hard to find an honest conservative?

Lisa
Mike, I am also embarrased by having a leader like Specter. You ARE aware that your beloved Santorum worked his political butt off for that RINO when a true conservative was running against Specter? "Arlen is with us when it counts" said Rick. Party over Principal. No wonder we lost the majority.

I would NEVER vote for him for POTUS.


A lack of intellectual understanding
Unlike most who read this, I have spent years in Iran and Saudi Arabia. Once an admirer of the Middle East culture, I was in fact there as the wave of fundamental Islamic thinking overwhelmed the area. When I left, many of my friends were being executed because of their "Western" thinking.

Liberals (ie Democrats) and most Republicans need to take courses in human geography and comparative religion. They simply do not understand the threat before the civilized world.

I for one am very disappointed by the focus on Iraq and the unclear message of terrorism by our body politic. This is a real war and the American people need to wake up.

Santorum understood this crucial issue and was a rational voice in the MSM driven wilderness.

liberalgoodman writes.Why is it so hard
Why is it so hard to find an honest conservative?
Well, I ask you, why is it so hard to find an honest Liberal? When the liberals say the conservatives are the "culture of corruption", then turn around and want to appt. Murtha (corrupt) to the second in command, then turn around and promote "freezer boy Jefferson" to homeland security, AFTER saying they were going to get rid of corruption, is a tad reprehensible isn't it??? The liberals still have "I can swim and she can't Kennedy" in the Senate.
Oh, I forgot, the different rules for different fools of the Democrat party. OUT with any offense of the Repubs, but keep those trustworthy Dems. Libby sent to prison, for what they lauded in Clinton (perjury), but there are the double standards again.
Just get ready for the Bush, Juan McCain, Swimmer boy Kennedy Amnesty bill, that ought to make all the liberals and libertarians happy. You know they Illegals are doing the jobs "legal American citizens" JUST WON'T DO. You know like the construction MY SON is doing, at cut rate prices, Like sucking up Medicaid for their illegal anchor babies, but can't give it to my Daughter 16 years with MS, and ready for the wheelchair. Real dandy Right???
I liked Santorum, I thought he was a great role model. Babies have rights also, only called a fetus, unless someone kills it in an accident, we all have to start out as a fetus, BUT I have NEVER heard a pregnant woman say I'm having a fetus.
Perhaps if the Liberals took more care, they wouldn't NEED all those abortions, and we wouldn't (need according to them) need all those illegal aliens, doing jobs we won't do.

Santorum, Slimy pol extraordinaire
Santorum claimed to be a conservative, but......

He expanded government at every opportunity.

AIDS, Autism, Poverty.......you name it, he thought more government intervention, more government enforced redistribution of the wealth was the answer....a fiscal leftist.

On social issues, he sold his soul....not only endorsed but actively campaigned for Specter in the primary over genuine conservative Pat Toomey. THAT was his undoing.

Once he placed party above principle, the values voters abandoned him in droves.

On the border, I have no doubt he was given permission to grandstand against S.2611. He amended the bill early on and gave only perfunctory speeches for the Congressional Record. He only introduced his own border security bill after it became evident that the issue could be exploited.

His oft repeated stump speech about "Islamic Fascism" was nothing more than a passion play.......written, designed and choreographed to play on our emotions. He appealed to our worst fears, not our best hopes. I wonder what "The Gipper" would have said about that. And from his speeches, it was clear that he was purposefully avoiding any discussion of our existing defensive capabilities...even those which are well known and documented in the public domain. Was he just stupid, clueless, or manipulative? It was all about his re-election campaign, nothing more.

The "R" does not a Republican make. We need faux conservatives like that as much as goldfish need bikes.

BillyBob:
Well said, sir. Santorum will make a political
comeback after the next brutal terrorist attack
on this country proves him right about the most
important issue facing us today.
I urge people of all political stripes to drop
the bickering over tangential issues and start
supporting pols who will aggressively defend American citizens and interests in the Middle
East and around the world.

There's no time for narrow partisanship, polit-ical grudges and internal feuds. American citi-zens must come together and confront our real
enemies before we find ourselves burying
thousands more of our countrymen.

A disaffected libertarian,
A disaffected libertarian,

Meet another Republican who utter loathes the pathetic cheapskates, phonies and losers that enshrine themselves under the title of Libertarian. The more appropriate title is Libertine. Their real political creed is a lazy immoral disengagement from the responsibilities of civil duty. Libertines are the remoras of the Republican Party where their paucity in numbers is disproportionately complemented by the raucous fanatical loudness of their impossible opinions. They can only lose election for Republicans and as a Conservative Republican all I can say is “Shush up, Child, the adults are talking”.


Loyalty to Spector help lose this election but the level of hatred for Santorum is profoundly sickening.

Hating Rick Santorum
Your final analysis of why people hate Santorum is right on target. He stands on principal and lives by absolutes. That drives today's liberals into a frenzy. They can't deal with absolutes. If they give in to absolutes, just a little bit, they may eventually have to admit that there is a God that created both the universe and we humans. That would be the death nell to all their causes.

Betty
Your opinion is unsupportable. Santorum had an American Conservative Union rating of 92 in 2005 and 96 in 2004 and a lifetime rating of 88. Under what maximalist criteria for Conservative behavior do you operate?

funny
You guys just got dumped by America, a unified voice that grew tired of the repubs lies and hypocrisy. This is not only about Rick, its about all the neocons. Watch part 2 in 08, the victory of the democrats is going to be even bigger. Just "stay the Curse".

Here in Harrisburg,
There are equal parts love and hate for Rick.

But there always have been.

Rick was not defeated by the Santorum Haters. They've been dribbling spittle from their frothy mouths over him for many a year.

Rick was defeated by the spirit of the times. The GOP got beat down by the media and began to surrender. The moment that happened, the entire party was sunk.

I maintain that if every Republican were like Rick, we'd win every single year, even if we couldn't win in Boston, SF or NYC. If the folks could trust the GOP to stick up for its principles like Rick Santorum, they would vote for Republicans.

Because they know a critical mass of Republicans is just as soulless as the Democrats--and it's just enough to prevent a conservative nation from ever emerging--people have just hit the wall with the GOP. I can't blame them. Rick was up for reelection just as that happened, and even though he's a true blue conservative, he got caught in the crossfire. The Santorum Haters have written profusely about how this proves Pennsylvania hates Rick Santorum. Bullspit.

I agree with Kengor. The Santorum-haters in PA can go have sex with themselves. Most of us here in PA will get sick of the Dems very quickly, and Santorum, should he once again run, will be returned to the Senate.

DS:
Lies and hypocrisy can be found on both sides of
the aisle. Politicians of both parties ignore
real problems in favor of their own short-term,
narrow partisan interests.

Isn't it time to put aside the ridiculous idea
that one party is Good and the other Evil? We
are all Americans, after all. Let's let go of
partisan bickering (for a while, at least!)
and come together, as Americans, to confront
the very real threats that face us. Failure to
do so will mean dead Americans in the streets.
Again.

Is any short-term partisan "victory" worth
that price?

Santorum Should...
...pack up his family and move to Arizona. Yes Arizona. Then run against McCain next time. Or maybe Florida. Run against that Senator that looks like a game show host. Nelson or whatever his name is. PA doesn't deserve a Santorum. DD

Good one Mike
Pennsylvanians who "hate" Santorum for his conservative values and elect traitors like Murtha show their principles are upside down. They appear like children who don't want to accept responsibility for their acts, which is what abortion on demand is, and want big government "daddy" to take care of them. It's no wonder PA. is in such bad shape economically.

Test
testing

Western PA Political Context
It needs to be remembered that Western PA used to be very hard-labor industrial. Today it has a growing pool of younger knowledge workers in health care, education and financial services. But I suspect that the Post-Gazette still sees its profit in catering to the aging, pro-union, Democrat-machine leftists who once dominated the area. (I suspect that this goes a long way toward explaining that paper's financial struggles. The politics of its editorial page is arguably 40 to 80 years behind the suburbanites who currently populate its region. Its editorialists & letter writers, of course, see themselves as very forward thinking as they yearn for the 1930's.) Santorum was unlikely to ever get a sympathetic hearing from such folk.

His support for Spector (at the expense of the conservative in that primary) cost Santorum in his Republican base. And Bob Casey is arguably socially conservative enough to not alarm many formerly Republican cross-over voters. (Of course, Casey and other newly elected Democratic centrists will simply get steam-rollered by the hardcore radical leftists who control that Party now with an iron grip. If these centrists are principalled men & women, they will just about have to rebel against their current party: They probably can't be re-elected unless they do.)

Its just a shame that a good man was defeated by the haters and folks who admire Joe Stalin. And another good man, Bob Casey, got used by (and will increasingly get used by) these demagogic liars and power-lusting thugs. We have to hope that the voters have eyes to see.

Santorum
I am not convinced that the general public are the ones not liking Rick Santorum. The media feeds us exactly what they want us to believe the rest of the population is thinking. Rick Santorum is exactly the kind of leadership our country needs. He like President Bush doesn't bend just because someone else doesn't like what he say's, he has true beliefs and he's willing to stand by them. He'd have my presidential vote!

Rick Santorum
As a Pennsylvania resident, I think that Rick Santorum was defeated by a six-year hate campaign by the Democrats. Every news story about him was negative, especially the whole phony brouhaha about his residency and the cyber-school issue, which was a big deal around here. Any Pennyslvania resident can have cyber-schooling (computer-based lessons for home schooling) for his children--except for one of our senators! The local school district disputed Santorum's family's use of this option on the basis that the family didn't really live in the district but in Washington, and when the issue was finally decided by the courts in Santorum's favor (since the district had approved the arrangement for a couple of years before a Democrat operative realized what a great hammer this was to beat Santorum with), the story was on page 14 for one day. The impression that Santorum was somehow cheating the local school district was already made and could not be effaced. The guy couldn't win; if he had kept his kids in Penn Hills (the location of his Pennsylvania home) year round, I'm sure we would have heard that he really didn't value his family because he spent so much time away from him in Washington.

I made phone calls for his campaign on election day, and I heard some amazing things from voters. One man actually said that Santorum was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, a statement far more true of his opponent than of Rick. I'm not sure that there is a way to really overcome six years of constant negative stories. It hardly matters that the stories are untrue or unfair. Eventually people start to think that there must be something wrong.

Sometimes the message that a country most needs to hear is one that it does not want to hear. I think that this is true of Rick Santorum's message.

Rick Santorum 2008
Read Plato's Republic, then you'll understand the former senator. I know, the masses don't read
Plato, still, I submit, that's the way to best understand former senator Rick Santorum.
Santorum appeared on my 'radar screen' when he came out commenting about the Lawrence v. Texas; he was right on the mark. Since then I've been keeping tabs on his political career. I confess I was a little taken aback by his support of A. Specter, still I trusted his judgement. I'm not a politician, but I know that, without being Michiavellian, one has to recognized the reality of the game.
I would campaing for him with all my energy if he runs in 2008. I hope, against all hope, that he does. I already display my 'Santorum 2008' bumper- sticker.

Top Down Bushite Co-operator
You might advise your colimnist colleague, Robert Novak of the Hate Santorum Syndrome and its undying enmity. Rick decided to toady to the Bush League Bunch. They run a Top Down operation. The so-called Grassroots Organizations were given only Specter materials to distribute at the polls. Santorum was one of those who chose to push for the radical Philadelphia lawyer. The argument used to justify such nonsense was, "Specter will help us carry Southeastern Pennsylvania for Bush in 2006."Transparently stupid, Such is the GOP in the Keystone State. Sadly, the misnamed Grassroots here are mostly socialistic sycophants, not really interested in Conservatism at all.

Re: Libertarianism
I work with a few guys like WRH Bill who will proudly proclaim how libetarian they are. When you dig deeper you find that they are very libertarian when it comes to personal behavior for themselves but are very willing to have the government control actions they don't like in others. Usually the actions and policies are in the conservative Republican mold. I also agree with HVTsRMe in that a nation with no values that it is willing to defend is not worth having. Libertarians fall short for me also. People, absolute personal freedom in a society where persons interact with each other is a myth. No successful society in history has ever made this work because as long as I rub up against other humans there will choices that have to be made. Of course government intervention should be minimum but there are times when it is necessary. I suppose the dilemma for most is choosing the values the majority want upheld.

Cutting off one's nose.....
"Mr. Santorum chose to actively support Mr. Specter's campaign. I will not forgive nor forget that choice"

So you get to live with six years of Bobby Casey Jr sucking up to Nancy Pelosi and doing whatever the Dem. leadership tells him to do - unless, of course, Bobby decides to run for something ELSE in 2008, which is likely, since he's run for something new every two years since he got into public life.....

Gives that whole "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face" cliche new meaning, doesn't it....? Scary part is that there's no remorse for helping the Dems. take over the Senate and House....

Terri Schiavo
Santorum's principled support in trying to prevent the murder of Terri Schiavo was used against him. Only the Left thinks it's meddling when you try to prevent the killing of innocent babies and disable people, but then it's righteous when they try to prevent a convicted murderer from being brought to justice.

No doubt though that Santorum's snubbing of Pat Toomey really disgusted the rightwingers who saw a great opportunity to replace Specter with a man of vision and ideas. Also, it hurt him that his competitor was the son of former pro-life champion Bob Casey who was also pro-life himself.

Specter repaid the favor by basically ignoring Santorum during the election campaign.

Two Comments
1) Reg Henry, a columnist syndicated by Scripps Howard News Service, is a rabid leftist supporting aleftist agenda. Their hatred of all things right and normal and good is so visceral that I believe that all real Christians and all real Americans must simply band together and seize control of the national government to prevent a leftist victory in '08.

2) "Only the Left thinks it's meddling when you try to prevent the killing of innocent babies and disabled people, but then it's righteous when they try to prevent a convicted murderer from being brought to justice." In just one sentence, PV has captured to the proverbial tee just how the Left inverts all moral values!

Responses from "disaffected libertarian"
My post commenting that as a libertarian-leaning Republican voter I was glad to see Rick Santorum lose, because of his explicitly anti-libertarian stance, drew some strong responses. HVTsRme posted:
"The only way your argument hangs together is if killing an unborn child is among those “cultural” choices you think Santorum wants to shove down our throats. I think this is why Libertarianism always falls short for me....Finally, this simply must have occurred to you: When you petulantly reject a conservative like Santorum only to gain a Democrat that takes more of your income and consciously seeks a more intrusive government, you can hardly claim to have struck a blow for Libertarianism."

You are under the mistaken impression that I am hard-line "pro-choice" on abortion and that his stance on abortion is *the* reason I don't like Santorum. Actually, like a majority of Americans, I fall somewhere in the "mushy middle" on abortion. On the one hand, I don't support a total abortion ban and I don't view every single abortion, even the destruction of a fertilized egg in the earliest stages of pregnancy, as "killing a baby". On the other hand, I don't think legal abortion is a "constitutional right"-- I would have no problem with overturning Roe v. Wade and leaving the issue up to voters-- and I think some legal restrictions on abortion are justified. But the bottom line is: Santorum wanting to ban abortion totally would *not* stop me from supporting him, if he held other positions I agreed with. What turns me off of Santorum is his *general* statement that he opposes libertarianism and wants more, rather than less, government involvement in people's personal lives in general.
As for it being "petulant" to oppose Santorum and let the Democrats win, that might be true if it *were* only one or two of Santorum's positions I disagreed with. But I don't think it's "petulant" to oppose a candidate who openly states that he opposes the *core* of what I believe in. If the Republican Party were completely dominated by people who think like Santorum ( and it's closer than I would like to that now), then there would be nothing to choose from, from my point of view, between Republicans and Democrats. The shoe might pinch in different places, but it would pinch either way. The Democrats might even be preferable.

AndyMalone posted:
"Meet another Republican who utter loathes the pathetic cheapskates, phonies and losers that enshrine themselves under the title of Libertarian. The more appropriate title is Libertine. Their real political creed is a lazy immoral disengagement from the responsibilities of civil duty. Libertines are the remoras of the Republican Party where their paucity in numbers is disproportionately complemented by the raucous fanatical loudness of their impossible opinions. They can only lose election for Republicans and as a Conservative Republican all I can say is “Shush up, Child, the adults are talking”.... the level of hatred for Santorum is profoundly sickening. "

So I take it, Andy, that you are in favor of me never again profaning the Republican Party with my unholy and "childish" vote? If I decide that most Republicans generally agree with you, I'll be glad to comply. And then.... well, you *may* be right that the GOP will be better off without "libertines" like me. But it didn't seem to work out that way in Montana and Missouri this last time. As for the "level of hatred" for Santorum, I said before and say again that I feel *no* personal hatred for him. What I feel for him is *disagreement*, not hatred. I hope he has a happy, successful private life promoting his "pro-family" values by non-coercive means. But I don't want him in a position to impose his values on me and others by force.

Wilson54 posted:
"I work with a few guys like WRH Bill who will proudly proclaim how libetarian they are. When you dig deeper you find that they are very libertarian when it comes to personal behavior for themselves but are very willing to have the government control actions they don't like in others. Usually the actions and policies are in the conservative Republican mold. I also agree with HVTsRMe in that a nation with no values that it is willing to defend is not worth having. Libertarians fall short for me also. People, absolute personal freedom in a society where persons interact with each other is a myth. No successful society in history has ever made this work because as long as I rub up against other humans there will choices that have to be made. Of course government intervention should be minimum but there are times when it is necessary. I suppose the dilemma for most is choosing the values the majority want upheld."

I don't claim to be 100% perfectly libertarian on every issue, but I'd appreciate your not tarring me with the same brush as people I don't know that you work with. Ask me about a specific issue and I'll tell you whether I want to have "government control other people's actions" on that issue. But there aren't very many issues where I want to control others by force except where those others are committing force or fraud themselves. As for recognizing that "absolute personal freedom in society" is not possible, I already acknowledged that in my original post when I said that I'm a moderate libertarian who doesn't want to eliminate government altogether. (Actually, you seem to be putting me in a double bind here; if I'm not a total purist libertarian on every issue, I'm a hypocrite; if I *am* a total purist libertarian, I'm unrealistic.) But again, my problem with Santorum is not just that he doesn't want to reduce government involvement in people's lives to the absolute minimum conceivable; it's that he wants to *expand* government, and rejects libertarianism as a whole. He's entitled to his opinion-- and I'm entitled not to vote for him if I don't like his opinion.




Liberalgoodman,
If you have something to say, how about making a point? Something based on facts, creativity, or just logical? You seem to think think you're sophisticated but you come across as the court jester.

Hating Rick Santorum
A whole other article could be written on the last statement of making a comeback - MANY have overcome numerous defeats (think of Lincoln for starters, but I know of many others...) who become some of the greatest leaders, after defeat upon defeat; it only takes one win!
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