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Wednesday, August 15, 2007
Douglas MacKinnon :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Two Things To Know Before Your City is Nuked By Terrorists
by Douglas MacKinnon
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1.) Tragically, horrifyingly, but quite predictably, it’s going to happen. The only question being which American city or cities?

In a recent conversation with a former high level intelligence operative of our government, I raised the possibility of terrorists successfully detonating a nuclear weapon within the United States. His response was sobering in its hopelessness.

First, he stressed how grateful he was that he did not work in Washington, DC, and that his family lived far enough out to survive the coming nuclear blast. When I pressed him as to why he was so sure that Islamic terrorists – with or without the help of Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez – would eventually hit DC or another American city with a nuclear weapon, his anger boiled out.

He pointed the finger squarely at our politicians and our politically correct, left-leaning media, who, in his opinion, have “sealed our fate.” He spoke of politicians from both sides of the aisle who consider border security nothing more than a cheap tool to be used for their reelection and enrichment. He despaired about a media that not only gleefully leaks our nation’s most trusted secrets for partisan gain, but then willingly acts as a propaganda tool for the very terrorists intent on our total destruction.

He warned of the hundreds of “loose nukes” floating around our planet. He patiently explained that the former Soviet Union (no matter what they or our government claim), can’t account for a number of their nuclear warheads. That North Korea may well have a few they are willing to sell to terrorists to prop up their totalitarian regime. That Pakistan – already a nuclear power – may soon fall victim to the Islamic extremists trying to overthrow that government. Of an Iran further ahead in their development of nuclear weapons than thought. And last, but not least, he spoke of the thousands of cruise missiles unaccounted for around the world. A number of those missiles being nuclear tipped.

In short, because of what he portrayed as a “betrayal by those sworn to protect us,” a nuclear attack within our nation, in his mind, is “inevitable.”

2.) When said attack comes, you and your family are on your own. Period. My friend stressed that “our government won’t be there to help us. It is broken beyond repair and incapable of assisting those most affected by the blast.”

He talked of critical infrastructures like water, electricity, fuel, banks, our food supply, medical services, police and firefighters, being unavailable for weeks or months. He warned of the blind panic that would follow such an explosion. Of the looting, of neighbor turning on neighbor to take what they don’t have for their own survival. Of our economy suffering an economic loss in the trillions of dollars.

Knowing this, are you prepared? Can you and your family ride out the frighteningly unpredictable weeks or months following the loss of an American city and its inhabitants? If you are not in the city hit, can you survive?

You must ask yourself this question. For, unless there is a miraculous epiphany about to be visited upon our self-centered politicians, then such an attack is certain.

If our politicians and the voters continue to suicidally put party and partisan politics before the welfare and security of our nation, then the terrorists will find the opening to hit us.

Our government and media are failing us. Prepare for the worst.

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About The Author

Douglas MacKinnon is a former White House and Pentagon official and author of the forthcoming novel, The Apocalypse Directive.

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big city
This blast will most likely occur in a big city with a high population count... probably on the coast,, where the majority of the citizens are left leaning....

The blast will be bad... deaths will be had... and I won't be glad....

However,,, if this is the "collateral damage" necessary to wake up liberals to ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM (all across the ME including IRAQ)...
Then so be it....

Blind Panic
I do not believe it behooves any of us, especially columnists on TH, to continually talk about and predict nuclear attacks. This type of panic talk, going into gory detail as to where and when, sounds like a bunch of children. Since WWII, there has not been a single instance of an atomic type weapon being used against any country or city. These so-called "experts" don't know any more about this matter than the man in the street. All this talk does is turn Americans, who are already unnerved due to what is going on worldwide in the war against Islamofacists, into panic stricken nervous wrecks.

uwcharlie re: Blind Panic
" I do not believe it behooves any of us, especially columnists on TH, to continually talk about and predict nuclear attacks."

Just what are we supposed to talk about then? The fact that nuclear weapons havent been used is that the US and the Soviets for much of that time were the only ones that had them. Or western nations after that. The soviets didnt use them for self preservation reasons. The same for us. But the Islamic terror groups care nothing about that. We already know for a fact that they have tried to obtain them.

Yet we are, according to you, supposed to shut up and ignore the fact that if they can, they will use nuclear weapons on our cities. THAT is also a fact. As to turning Americans into panic stricken wrecks, maybe a good dose of fear is what is needed to wake this country up, and especially liberals to the danger that our country is facing. Americans need to wake up to the fact that we are at war and the enemy is determined to strike us here at home in any way that they can. And it IS going to happen. Burying your head in the sand is not going to stop it nor remove the danger of it happening. And it WILL happen.

cyberpip1
Who said anything about shutting up? I just said there is way too much uneducated panic talk about it. If you want to talk about it, it's a free country. I just think column after column stressing "where and how bad" is not the way to go. It is proper to understand the great risks, especially with the libs and Dems ignoring the threat. What I see, though, is simply "chicken littles" like MacKinnon running around shouting "the sky is falling". Any fool knows our enemies have or will soon have nuclear weapons and very likely will use them and we need to be aware of it, but panic talk will not help.

Diabolical Formula to Unite the Country!
What happens when you get gangrene?

Excision of the diseased portions of the body may be necessary and, in advanced involvement, amputation of the part.

That may be exactly the prognosis we’re faced with soon.

For a number of years now, we’ve been hearing all the talk about how divided this country is. And indeed it is. The question is, how do we unite? Hey conservatives, would a Clinton - O’bama ticket bring you together? Would you dims feel all warm and fuzzy with a Tancredo – Thompson ticket? No, I didn’t think so. That probably means whoever wins the candidacy will keep us divided until the cows come home. Or will it? Here’s my “what if” of the day:

What if EVERYONE voted for the Clinton - O’bama ticket? Hold on a second, bear with me. Would that not give them a staggering amount of confidence? Would they then not show their true colors and start doing some outrageously socialistic things? After all, if power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely!

It wouldn’t be long before the entire country came to the stark realization the Democratic Party has gone so far left of left they’ll kick their arses all the way to the ocean! Oh yea, I’ve played it out in my head a thousand times and it always comes out the same way.

uwcharlie
It is not blind panic to talk about what may(and most likely will) happen.

Since time began, every destructive item(for wars) has been used & that will always be so.

We talk about it because it WILL happen eventually.

We'reAllGonnaDie
Yes, of course we are going to be hit by another disaster of some kind, and most people will not be prepared; in fact, a lot of people are planning to kill and loot those who are prepared -- that is their idea of preparation.

Here in Kanukistan the police round up terrorists and the Judges let them out on bail to their Mommies because the poor terrorists are unhappy eating jail food and they miss going to school ... and besides, it shows those Americans that They Are Not The Boss Of Us. But it won't take Nukes to bring us down, just well placed guys with a couple of suitcase IEDs to flus people out of a major downtown building at lunch time, and a dozen or so under-18s with machine guns outside to make sure the carnage is suitable for the 24 Hour News Channels. Then our Mayor will broadcast from Shanghai or Detroit or some other junket he may be on, to tell us that the solution is more basketball courts, hugs, and banning handguns -- and he will blame the USA.

We are on our own up here in cards and spades and we all know it.

As for the Americans, they will once again demonstrate to the terrorists that the country is not in fact divided when it comes to outside interference, and no matter what kind of whining for Remaining Calm and Tolerance may come out of DC, individuals will grab their guns and settle the hash of anybody who doesn't stand up and condemn the attack within 30 minutes of its occurrence. Enough is Enough.

Nuclear?
I'm sure that this wont happen untill the Democrats and the president takes away our 2nd Ammendment rights from us.It could be a good thing. The Nuke could hit DC and a lot of our problems would be over with.

THREE things to know
The attempt will be made almost certainly on one or several large cities, for the greatest impact.

All such cities are heavily democratic and on the coasts. The red states have the best chance of surviving an attack.

There won't even be anyone to strike back at because nobody'll know who exactly blew us up. THIS is the insane part, not being able to do anything about it even if you wanted to.

And then the folks will realize who the true enemy was, the civil war will commence, many millions will be killed in the chaos, and what will emerge from it will be the militaristic citadel-nation of the sort Pat Buchanan has been warning us about. Jingoistic, paranoid, politically and ethnically "clean", it will likely use its power and its nukes to keep the rest of the world in line.


If MacKinnon really believes
a nuclear attack on america is imminent why isn't he out there calling for a premptive strike on the likely perpetrators and the total annihilation of all muslims?? If it's them or us I'd much rather it was them that died!

If this happens,
no matter where or when it occurs, it will be blamed on Bush and the Republicans because of the liberation of Iraq, which had no ties whatsoever to terrorism.

Hussein was a legitimately elected leader, who was hated by the extremists as much as the extremists hate the US.

It was the JOOOS! It was BUSHITLER! It was...

(dragged off, and put in a rubber room with a nice white jacket with sleeves that tie together in back)

That's funny, right_wing2
I thought we went into Iraq to end terrorism?

The muslim world is connected by belief in Allah, and you know it. It does no good to try to solve the problem by doing more of what caused it in the first place. That's what liberals do. Also, we don't protect ourselves by sending soldiers halfway around the globe while ignoring our own borders.

Hal Donahue
Well I read your typically stupid posting and it confirmed my initial reaction after reading this article; if and when this tragedy occurs, the left will be more interested in finding a way to blame it on republicans than it will be pursuing those who did it. Plain and simple, you liberals do not recognize islamofacism as an enemy, your enemy is conservatism. People like you have done everything in your power to hamstring this country's efforts to defeat these terrorists, and whether you like it or not, the rest of us have noticed.
This is not a damn video game. When tens of thousands of our countrymen become dead at the hands of these heathen bastards, 'Bush lied, kids died' will not be enough. You have been against the efforts of our military from day one because you have been against Bush because of Florida 2000 or whatever other convoluted, crazy reason.

I'm not naive
But I truly don't see an actual full blown nuclear attack upon our soil. Wishful thinking, huh? I do believe that extremists will and are plotting attacks, however, in the form of suitcase bombs and gunfire. Everytime they tried something here, they were thwarted. This is why I have a belief it just would not go that far. I could be wrong, but I hope I'm not.

However, any attack that will happen on our soil in the future, of any kind, of course will be blamed on Bush, the Jooooos, and anyone else the liberals will conjure up in photoshop in order to lay blame on anything but the actual enemy, the Islamic Terrorists.

Oh and Big Arch, yes you are right. Warren is an idiot, and a classic Jew hater. Just wait on that one to emerge, he can't help himself.

This scenario is entirely possible
The reason no nuke was used after WW2 was the other countries had rational leaders who knew that they would be utterly destroyed.

These islamos are not rational, they are fanatics who revere death, even their own. This nut in Iran wants to start a nuke war, he believes that amageddon is good for his religion and a billion or so adherants believe the same thing.
It's hard to defend against that kind of threat, those that preach this and call for the destruction of other countries like ours and Israel, need to be taken out and replaced by moderates. I'd prefer that option to killing of millions on both sides in a nuke war.

It's not just the loss of 1 city, our economy would fall for years and might never recover.
We could be in worse shape than we were in the depression, all because we didn't have the will to kill off the crazies and allowed another attack here at home. We are the big dog, we need to loose the leash and send these animals a message that we are not to be messed with or they will suffer the same fate as those who started WW2.

Hank
Given the Rand reference, I would've thought that you'd be more level headed and you would discuss the issues. No, all you do is categorize and associate.

Re: Three Things To Know

Bandu writes:

> There won't even be anyone to strike back at because nobody'll
> know who exactly blew us up. THIS is the insane part, not being
> able to do anything about it even if you wanted to.

We wouldn't *have* to know "exactly" who blew us up. Since such
an attack would be made in the name of Islam, and since the Muslims
think of themselves as belonging to an entity which transcends
nation-states (the "ummah"), the key is to hold the Islamic world
collectively responsible for such an attack. That means nuking
Mecca, Medina, and the capital city of every Islamic nation on
earth in reprisal.

Some believe Islamic terrorists are impossible to defeate because
they welcome death in the name of martyrdom. Well, they might
just rethink that if they achieve more martyrdom than they had in
mind. The casualty rate from the sort of reprisal I suggest would
be horrific, and I certainly don't welcome such a ghastly turn of
events. But if that's what it takes for the Western world in
general and America in particular to survive and to defeat the
threat of Islamic terrorism once and for all, then so be it. Like
the old Billy Joel song says, we didn't light the fire.


-CB-

Darren
Since your so level headed you wanna go ahead and name anything I said that is not true?

I can't find...
any substantive argument to refute in your post. You have only built up a straw man of whom you consider to be the typical liberal, associated Hal with it, and then kicked the straw man to the ground.

Berry ii
You neo-nuts don't get it. Nuking the mideast kills half the planet. Are you really that ignorant anfd hateful or just stupid?

The reason this scenario, (Geez, what a hopeful piece of dreck. McDumbazz obviously has no idea what Americans are capable of when facing disaster) is even remotely possible is that Bush's "Homeland Security" is a joke. Even the BBC caught the story of the Congress testing the Nuclear Regualtory Agency, and how their investigators bought, without any checks of any kind into their phony company, enough radioactive material for two dirty bombs. Right here in America. Then they managed to get it across both "Homeland Securified" borders with just phony papers.

The point here though is that it is just more anti-Islamic fear mongering of the right. No wonder Republicans are sick of the neo-cons. No wonder the approval ratings are less than 30%.

The neo-clowns are all talk, and nothing else. Oh, except money grubbers.

Hal Donahue
How high does the body count have to be before you get the message? THESE PEOPLE WANT TO KILL US! all of us, and no matter which way you try to spin current events, this immutable fact remains. Don't believe me? Check out any terrorist web site they are screaming their intensions at us.

say it ain't so
This one really takes me back. I knew for certain that the darn Ruskies were going to drop the H-bomb back in elementary school. I tried to build my own bomb shelter in the back yard. I took a shovel from garage and started digging. As I worked, I envisioned not only saving myself, but my whole family too. The more I dug, the greater my dream became with me saving all my friends by building shelters with interconnecting tunnels and go-carts running between. It was sweet. I actually got down about 2 feet before my father noticed what I was doing and blew his stack. He was pretty angry and besides the “kick in the pants”, he also berated me on how foolish my plans were; but I was angry too because I knew in my heart that I was right and he would see. In fact, I might not let him in when the time comes.

Great
Not the best article to wake up to, but very true.

Seawolf
Many good points. This is a very sobering thing. We went over there (the middle east) to try and take out the terrorist strongholds and hopefully break thier will to fight. Well while our brave soldiers have sent many of these jihadis to Allah the enemies will has not been weakened because of a steady, constant drumbeat of negativity (about the mission) which has emenated from the drive-by media specifically and the left in general. Why is it that we have never heard the number of enemy combatants killed, yet we are told almost on a daily basis how many of our guys are killed? The left has been more interested in defeating Bush than they have defeating terrorists, and as such they have provided the enemy with hope that they can just wait us out.
The reason I am concentrating on the blame game is because I know what is going to happen; we get attacked, and the one guy in the world that has tried to protect the country (GWB), will be blamed, bank on it. The left's motivation through all of this has been purely political, and as such they have not been interested in preventing another attack, much less defeating the enemy where they are. But they will not be able to hide this when it does hit the fan. After the shock, after the pain and misery eases, and after we have had some time to grieve, the American people are going to look around and ask; 'how could this have happened?'. It will be at that point that all of the blatant attacks on the President, the soldiers, and the mission will be remembered. Hopefully, it will be then that the rest of the country finally wakes up.

Citizen X, et al
Yes, they want to kill us. Ask yourself why. Go back to the Iranian revolution in 1979. The Iranians revolted against the tyrannical regime that the US installed in 1953 to prevent the spread of communism. They remembered this, and so they paid the US embassy there a visit and took a bunch of hostages. Fast forward, and the result of this is the bitterly anti-American government they have there today. Look at Afganistan. We supported the terrorist Taliban against the Soviets, which enabled them to stay in power. Also, after Desert Storm, we built permanent military bases in Saudi Arabia, which pissed off everybody there. That also pissed off OBL, who then organized the driving of jumbo jets into the World Trade Center.

Given all this, what do you people propose? More foreign intervention, of course! Our government is quickly going broke, but surely we can afford $1 trillion a year on foreign military adventures.

Darren
You can call it a straw man if you want but Hal is a real person, and there are others like him that represent the group to which I was referring. In describing the typical liberal, am I wrong? These people are who they are and I am calling them on it because this does happen to be a matter of life and death. Lookit, I would have been more than happy to stand with these people and be united, but thier hatred of Bush is such that they refused, so here we are. I wish it did not have to be this way, but (you might be familiar with this) A is A. Existence exists. Actions have consequences and words mean things.

Creighton Beryll
You are RIGHT ON. I'm with you all the way!

Citizen X, et al
Looking to blame America is for the hatred of Islamics is looking for an easy answer. You want easy answers because you think all we have to do is understand why they are mad at us and fix it.

Islamofreaks hate because they are haters. They even blow EACH OTHER

darren
HANK did discuss the issue put forward by Mr. MacKinnon.
Get some little kid to explain it to you.
AND, HANK was right on the money!!

Am I evil?
That now our daughter is no longer on the West Coast, three of the previously announced targets are, in my personal opinion "clear" since we now have no relatives living there?

Gut feeling - not Washington D.C., not with a nuclear device. The Islamic Terrorists WANT the news coverage, and the panic that will follow.

Since we moved to where we are, I have scouted alternate routes to my MIL in West VA. Trust me, shes a gal that lived the Foxfire books. going back to that way of life would be difficult, for a few items are no longer available like they once were. But still doable.

Middle America has always been our strength, and I really think you will see the "terror" envisioned ONLY in the major cities, ONLY in the inner cities. Like with Katrina, where NOLA was a "visitation" to a 3rd World Country; many other smaller cities and towns pulled together, even with the town completely washed away.

Get the plywood, the plastic and the duct tape after all.

Sorry about that
I sent that last post before I meant to.
Citizen X, et al
Looking to blame America for the hatred of Islamics is looking for an easy answer. You want easy answers because you think all we have to do is understand why they are mad at us and fix it.

Islamofreaks hate because they are haters. They even blow EACH OTHER up. I have always that that if we wait long enough, we won't have to worry about Islam anymore because they will kill off each other.

If they didn't have America to hate, they would just find a reason to hate some other country. These men are full of testosterone that they simply can't handle.

If the whole world suddenly converted to Islam, they wouldn't know what to do with themselves because there would be no one to hate. But you can be sure, they would find a reason.

Time to go....
Iran will develop nuclear weapons. Pakistan has developed nuclear weapons as a counter to India's nuclear arsenal, and Pakistan is teetering towards becoming a radical Islamic state. Either of these countries could supply a nuke to terrorists who could cross either of our borders. Our federal government will not secure our borders, so long as it is controlled by big business. The article's premise is plausible.

Property values in the rural Midwest have steadily risen as many leave the border states because of the chaos associated with illegal immigration. There was an article in the Dallas paper this year that reported that for every illegal who moves to the city one person of the "majority," now a minority in Dallas, leaves. Travel in the Midwest and you will hear the locals lament about all of the d*** Texans and Californians driving up housing costs. This nuclear terrorism threat is another reason to go.

Boromir's Horn
Gondor's Answer--

Interesting post, but to add to the idea you propose (with some paranoid conspiracy theory thrown in) I wouldn't be surprised if a Hillary ticket did win in a landslide--electronic polling booths are a great way to make this happen.

But seriously--many of us are ready to get this thing over with, we all feel and know something bad and/horrific is on the way. Sides are already chosen, blame is already laid at various doors and all that is left is the actual fighting.

What average people need to figure out is when the horn sound's will Gondor and Rohan answer?

Read "The Road"
If you have a young son, and can imagine a world torn apart by nukes, read The Road. What a fantastic Pulitzer winning book!
There are manuals that we paranoids have that teach us some basic tricks for survival, not expensive, though you could spend as much as you like.
After reading that book though I wonder if it would not be better to sit right under the bomb and get it over with.

From the shadows


Douglas MacKinnon
In a recent conversation with a former high level intelligence operative of our government, I raised the possibility of terrorists successfully detonating a nuclear weapon within the United States. His response was sobering in its hopelessness.


In short, because of what he portrayed as a “betrayal by those sworn to protect us,” a nuclear attack within our nation, in his mind, is “inevitable.”
--------------

In short, because the politicians have used even National Security for dividing the nation with democrat and republican fights, if there is such people in the world who want to do this, they have the cover, access and distractions needed.

Reports from the border over the past 6 years says islamics keep coming in along with the peach pickers.


If the rich and powerful
Of this world wanted to bring the United States into the New World Order even President Bush the elder spoke of, anyone think they intend to put it up for a vote?

What other method/options is there?



Thigh Master
Sorry--should have been more specific, Gondor and Rohan is middle America, average America, farm America, red-blooded America, those of us left who will do what needs to be done. Devoid of any elitist crud and overthinking of the "political" implications of an action.

And you are right--the world will look on in distain and laughter, smiling at our slaughter. Did any one of those countries give us aid after 9-11? Nope, we are on our own and most of us know it.

As another poster is fond of saying prime your guns, I am John Doe.

Test
test

As Washington DC
Has been transferred into a Fort along the lines of an old Army post during the Indian Wars, looking for all the world like a Front Line Infantry Military Headquarters at War, the Privates who are sent out on Patrol get arrested for confronting the enemy.

Odd behaviour isn't it.

Lets see
Homeland Security has come up with a plan to check out all American Citizens papers when traveling, and a time consuming and costly security check, Cheroff has written the US Borders off as worthless for any Security in such determination.

So the results are that if you are a law abiding citizen, you are seen as more dangerous than all the unknowns who want to come across the Borders and "work" with fraudulent papers.

Great way to bring about the changes the New World Order folks want, just not very comforting for any who still love America as it was Founded.

The conservative/liberal Patriots are the enemy for this NWO and the law breakers are its friends.


The claims of Al Qaeda
are that they have walked suitcase nukes into the US across the southern border and are waiting for the right time to set them off. Let's all assume for a moment that they are bluffing and have not done so. That leaves us with TWO serious problems. First, is that we know anyone can get across the southern border and getting a nuke in is actually possible just like they get people, drugs, and weapons in all day long. Second, they have thought about it which means it would be a matter of time until they try it.

The CIA has sad that they believe Al Qaeda has at least 80 suitcase nukes purchased form Russia. That does not mean all 80 were in perfect condition or good working order but between 80 mediocre bombs you can put together 5-6 good ones. Now imagine what happens if nukes go off in Miami, D.C., Boston, San Fransisco, and Dallas at the same time. How much fear and panic is there going to be? How fast will people grab their guns and start shooting everyone who looks to be from the middle east? Anyone who they think might be a muslim? It will result in an ethnic cleansing in our borders and Al Qaeda knows it and that is why they have told all muslims to leave the US before their next attack.

Not Sure How It will Go
I see two potential scenarios if this type attack occurs.

First, we could "unite" and realize we are in a war, and that we will have to do some terrible things to eradicate this threat once and for all - things that no one wants to do and that we would rather not even discuss. Our resolve will harden, and we will press forward, gritting our teeth.

Or, after a few days of the pols calling for people to unite, they will scramble to point fingers. "Bush lied us into an illegal war, made the terrorists madder at us, pursued a failed policy in Iraq, created the problem, etc." Some are already laying the groundwork just in case this happens. The divisions will be wider than ever, and the emotions will be higher. There will be calls to nuke them all on one side, and calls to release all the Gitmo prisoners to appease them from the other. We will be stuck in place.

I would like to think, as many of the posters do, that this will strengthen our resolve and make us realize this is going to be a long, painful struggle against an implacable enemy. However, given the state of our PC culture, I would lean toward the second scenario.

Darren
I propose we secure the boarders first, then we kill as many of these terrorists as possible, then we put the rest of the Islamic world on notice that any government found to be complacent with these animals will be removed by force. You on the other hand are proposing what,
apologies and hope that they just go away?
Or perhaps we should set up a federal program to make reparations for our sins.

global chaos
if a, one, nuclear device is successfully detonated in a major US city, such as NYC, Chicago, LA, Houston...then the economy of the US would CRASH, and then the entire global system would collapse.
we would all find out how many "liberal" hypocrits actually own guns.

The same people
Who planned and brought the Great Depression to do away with the Gold/Silver backed money and issue us their interest bearing fiat paper Federal Reserve Notes, already in the last stages for another one to change the fiat paper to the Amero.

---------


charlie writes: .then the economy of the US would CRASH, and then the entire global system would collapse.
----------


Remarks by Governor Ben S. Bernanke
At the Conference to Honor Milton Friedman, University of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois
November 8, 2002


For practical central bankers, among which I now count myself, Friedman and Schwartz's analysis leaves many lessons. What I take from their work is the idea that monetary forces, particularly if unleashed in a destabilizing direction, can be extremely powerful. The best thing that central bankers can do for the world is to avoid such crises by providing the economy with, in Milton Friedman's words, a "stable monetary background"--for example as reflected in low and stable inflation.

Let me end my talk by abusing slightly my status as an official representative of the Federal Reserve.

I would like to say to Milton and Anna:

Regarding the Great Depression.
You're right, we did it.
We're very sorry.

But thanks to you, we won't do it again.

Best wishes for your next ninety years.
------------

Yes they will, already planned and in the works

Just reading the title
of this article caused me feelings of fright. I to started thinking whether poor dying Detroit would make a good target. After reading many of the comments from those on the left, my fright hasn't left me. Attack, sarcasm,name calling blaming without reasoned approach to dealing with this threat.

NUKED
Your point is?? You're the one voting for the Democrates, not me. This has nothing to do with fear or scare tactics. Vote for a Democrat and I give you 2 to 3 years before the old U.S.A. gets
NUKED. I AM A BUSH-MAN and there is no one out there to fill his shoes, be it a Republican or
Democrat, etc. The Rpublicans seem at this point
to be able to prevent a NUKE attack. You have your thoughts and I have mine. You believe in fallacy and fiction. I on the other hand believe in and live in the REAL WORLD of life no jokes just the plan
truth. This may,or may not have anything to do with what you harping about, so be it. Like you, 72 to 75% of Americans live in the world of make-believe.

Talent Scout / Thighmaster

There may come a day when evil will triumph over the world, but not this day! There may come a day when darkness falls over our land, but not this day!! There may come a day when middle earth is utterly destroyed by the dark power, but not this day!!!
Brave men of Gondor I call upon you, do not look to the west for the help that's needed, for it will not come. Instead, look into your hearts, look into the hearts of your brethren, there you will find all the strength that we need. On this day we stand and fight together. Ooorah!!

Course
We the people can blame ourselves for Central Bankers now in complete control of the US Economy, we allowed the slick and well paid politicians to overthrow the US Constitutional demand that only gold and silver be used.

Been a slow process since 1913 for the bankers to gain all the riches and control over the world economy, but here we are after many years of slimey legislation handing a private corporation of super rich men the power the Constitution says belongs to Congress only.

Now to complete their control over business and government, they need the chaos of today to bring in their NWO.

The world becomes one giant and controlled corporation, owned by an elite group of the richest men in the world.

(I know, too fantastic to believe, believe it anyway, its for real)

Who will Gondor be?
Your next door neighbor of course. As bad as a nuclear blast would be I still have complete and utter faith in my fellow Americans to stand up and get the job done. Including the left.

We are all John Doe's.

Some brilliant posts

To thighmaster, your question about how many Americans need to die before people wake up; I think a lot of these people could see thier children get thier heads cut off by these monsters and still blame America for it. They are that far-gone. Seeing a city get wiped out would only further their assertion that Bush is an idiot and a cowboy and a frat boy and we went to war for oil because of haliburton and Dick Cheney and nation building and Bush-lied-kids-died and torture and gitmo and Katrina and.....

The fact that actual real people, thier countrymen, would be murdered is a concept that is not as real to them as is thier hatred for George W. Bush. It could happen ten years from now and Bush could be dead and Chelsea could be president and they would still blame Bush (and probably run against him in national elections). The liberals' whole worldview isn't real. They live in the greatest nation God ever allowed to exist on this planet, and yet they spend thier time doing everything they can to tear down the country, everything that makes or made it great, God, and anyone who disagrees with them. It's counterintuitive, but it is true in every facet of thier twisted world view (it explains thier economic policy, for example).
A major attack would most definately wake up a large portion of this sociey that hasn't figured out what kind of a threat this is. It is a religious war, it is by definition. It is a jihad declared on us (U.S.) intent on dismantling and conquering everything we stand for as a people. They mean to achieve that by killing large numbers of us sufficient to either conquer or convert whoever's left so that they can turn the world back into the seventh century hellhole they soo miss. A major attack would galvanize our people, and the rest who hate America will blame Bush and no one will care because the reality of tens of thousand of dead countrymen would be far more compelling than the liberal reality that is Bush hatred.

Divvying Up America
"For a number of years now, we’ve been hearing all the talk about how divided this country is. And indeed it is. The question is, how do we unite?"

Why unite at all? Some people want to divvy up Iraq based on their divisions. If America is as polarized as the politicians claim it is, why not divide the country geographically into two parts and let people choose where they want to live?

Where do you think law enforcement would go? Where do you think the military would go? Where do you think families will go? Where do you think most businesses would go? Which side do you think would be most susceptible to an attack and to being overtaken? Where do you think the criminals would choose to be? Where do you think terrorists would choose to reside? Where do you think the pedophiles would want to live? Where do you think the highest income taxes would be? Where would the drug addicts choose to reside? Which side do you think, will ask to keep the flag? Which side do you think will be the most chaotic? In 10 years, which new country will be the most prosperous?

You can write it down
Boromir's Horn writes:
Talent Scout / Thighmaster

There may come a day when evil will triumph over the world, but not this day! There may come a day when darkness falls over our land, but not this day!! There may come a day when middle earth is utterly destroyed by the dark power, but not this day!!!
Brave men of Gondor I call upon you, do not look to the west for the help that's needed, for it will not come. Instead, look into your hearts, look into the hearts of your brethren, there you will find all the strength that we need. On this day we stand and fight together. Ooorah!!
---------

My friend
I KNOW evil will not prevail.
It will win some battles, but it will lose the war.

Ever read George Washingtons Vision for the country?

Have no idea if it happened for sure, but it is accurate in its perceptions for our day, even if myth.

Laura Cap
Interesting analogy. One question: would we finally get to build our fence? I wouldn't want those blue bellied, yellow tailed demonrats trying to sneak back in! :)

Political Correctness will destroy us,
and both parties are believers in that concept. Their total disregard for this nation's well being is due to the fact that the elites see getting re-elected as the goal. Since they have rigged the entire process to assure themselves that power remains in their hands, they do not fear the American people who actually own this great nation. The recent amnesty scam, which I predict will be back, is a powerful example of how much they view us with total disdain.

It will be a disaster for our nation if we elect another of these elites in 2008. A nuclear bomb or two will only further their one world, socialist government agenda! The reasoning will be that inorder to stop terrorism, the world must be under control of a huge, all powerful overseer. America and our Constitution stand in the way of this elite agenda. That is how S.C. Justice O'Connor was able to openly state that OUR Constitution should be interpreted in light of the laws of other nations.

If we wish to preserve our inheritance, or more accurately, to reclaim it, we will need to change how we think and reject the propaganda that promotes the old lie that only they can govern, only they have wisdom and experience. Why believe them, because they say so?

I urge all to visit my website, JOEOLIVAFORPRESIDENT.ORG, and see that we have a choice, we have opportunities, we can restore the right principles that made America the greatest nation ever. Check it out, what is there to lose? The elites have already stolen our birthright, let's take it back. That is my goal, I hope you will agree. Thanks, Joe

Re: Berry ii

Re: Berry ii


Gonzo writes:

> You neo-nuts don't get it. Nuking the mideast kills
> half the planet. Are you really that ignorant and
> hateful or just stupid?


None of the above. Just pragmatic.

Besides, I didn't advocate "nuking the Mideast." I
advocated nuking the capital cities of the Islamic
Mideast.

Actually, I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole. I don't
think it'd be necessary to nuke the capital city of every
Islamic nation on earth. After all, there'd be little
point in taking out, say, Jakarta or the Emirates or
Sudan or Algiers and so forth. But Mecca and Medina are
shoo-ins, and so are Tehran and Damascus. Bandar Abbas,
too, since it's the homeport of the Iranian Navy.

Look, I'd hate to see something like that come to pass,
and I don't suggest it lightly. But then, I'd also hate
to see an American city under a mushroom cloud. And if
that were to happen, God forbid, what do *you* think an
appropriate response would be? Don't just say that I'm
wrong; be constructive and suggest what you believe to
be a better alternative.


-CB-

Re: Berry ii

Responding to Gonzo:

[continued from previous post due to length restrictions]

We'd undeniably be at war, and the fastest way to end a
war is to by-God have a *war* -- to inflict as many
casualties as possible on one's enemy, and to inflict
them as quickly as possible, for the maximum psychological
effect. That's the explanation for the fire bombing of
Dresden, Hamburg, and Tokyo, and of course, for the nuking
of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As ghastly as those events were,
fewer people on both sides died in the long run because of
them. Metaphorically speaking, would rather pull a Band-Aid
off all at once...or one hair at a time?

People like "Bomber" Harris and Curtis LeMay understood this,
once upon a time. It's unfortunate that so few people -- on
our side -- understand it today. Our current adversaries
certainly do. How long are we going to fight them with one
hand tied behind our figurative backs? How long are we going
to hobble and restrict ourselves in way that our adversaries
wouldn't think of doing?



-CB-

Reality is always troublesome
We are not facing the Soviet Union, whose leaders developed nuclear weapons for a variety of good (in their minds) reasons. Yet none of them wanted to die for Soviet style communism. They didn't want to strap a bomb on their back and vaporize themselves on the top of the Empire State building.

And before anyone jumps up and down saying I hate all Muslims, there are 1.4 billion Muslims in the world. Even moderate Muslims believe, and Pew polls support the number, that at least 25% of the world's Muslims believe in jihad against the West, most especially America. That is not my data talking, I am certain that the average Muslims doesn't wish to suffer from the fallout of a nuclear attack. Yet we face an enemy today that can only can compare to the Japanese soldiers in the Pacifc, but one move even farther in their desire to sacrifice themselves for the cause.

We live in utter fantasy, all of us. We are spoiled. We protect out children from violence on TV, while our enemy is teaching five year olds not just to hate us but to personally cut the heads off their live enemy.

The Western Left has convinced themselves that "we" are the enemy, not the radical Islamists, in total contradiction to what our enemies are preaching. The Left has convinced themselves that somehow "they" can find peace with an enemy who wishes to dominate the world, a world without those that believe as our left does.

Talent Scout
I believe you're right, but keep your powder dry, it may not be easy, evil is reproducing on a massive scale.

Muslims
Muslims are friendly only when outnumbered.

I trust this
The Inspired Source the Founders also trusted and produced the Land of Liberty.

The bible

Eph 6:12 -
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

The Foundations of the Nation are unmovable, and all it takes is the people to awake and demand we return to them.

These present day leaders are an arrogant bunch of fools thinking they are wiser than the Founders who recieved their help from God, not men.

That is where I suggest all Americans return to to find the Source for all our help.

It is the same place even Ben Franklin pointed to and the Founders followed.

Boromir's Horn, Talent Scout & Thighmast
I don’t know if you guys realize it but Ben Shapiro’s column makes it clear that Hollywood is trying to destroy America with its movie power. And here you guys are quoting from a movie and using it as a guide. You can’t go to heaven unless you vote Republican and it’s a well accepted fact that the whole “Lord of the Rings” series is designed to make you vote for Clinton.

MikeR
I believe we are all refering to the origional BOOK by Tolkien. Not the movie. The BOOK was written during a time of war and speaks eloquentlly about the ideals, wishes, hopes and fears of WWII. I am sorry that your memory and/or world view don't go back more than a few years. Of course Lord of the Rings was written by a professed Christian, so maybe you haven't read this hate-mongers works.

Go peddle your mindless opinions somewhere else.

What is far more likely to happen
is an airbust of a nuke at 5000-10000 feet over NYC. Few will be killed, and that is not the intent - the intent is to create the EMP.

As I understand it, every electronic device from Maine to Virginia will be cooked. Think about this for a minute, no electricity, no cars, no telephones, no BET. A total lack of governmental authority because the communication is gone.

What will then happen - and this is what people overlook - is a patchwork of local authorities. We aren't going to see anarchy as much as a total reassignment of social resources based on merit. It will be similar to what happened during the American Revolution.

Over time, these local authorities will federate into a Federal system more reflective of what the founding fathers envisioned and less of the National system of FDR.

And we will return to being a Christian nation - the concept of Islam in America will be over. I think the IslamoFachists know this and hence I think we will see a lot of little stuff, not the total nuke option.

Dear Mike
MikeR writes: W
Boromir's Horn, Talent Scout & Thighmast
I don’t know if you guys realize it but Ben Shapiro’s column makes it clear that Hollywood is trying to destroy America with its movie power. And here you guys are quoting from a movie and using it as a guide. You can’t go to heaven unless you vote Republican and it’s a well accepted fact that the whole “Lord of the Rings” series is designed to make you vote for Clinton.
------------------


Not to worry
I have seen all of 3 movies from hollywood in the last 35 years.

Besides the fact I have never quoted one to begin with.

I am more interested in what the opinion of a 1st grade elementary student is than any of the clowns in hollywood

MikeR
And here I was all set to compliment you on your clever 8:55 post

MikeR
I do agree with your assertion of Hollywoods detriment to society. But the Lord of the Rings Trilogy definitely doe NOT apply. If anything, it's the antithesis of what Hollywoods all about: In Tolkeins world, good really is good, and evil really is evil - the movie spells that out quite nicely. Not the mumbojumbo, bizarro, he/she world of Hollywood.

If you walked out of the theatre thinking "vote for Clinton" you probably thought "I hate those stupid marines" after watching "Blackhawk Down"!

Cruise Missiles
I heard about the rest. I didn't know about the cruise missiles, though.

Big Black Dog writes:
"there's not a single strategic city or state worth a nickel that calls itself conservative..."

Wow, or should I say Bow-wow. Down rover, you're drooling all over the keyboard. Have you had your rabies shot yet?

Little Black Puppy
You live in New York?

beyond the pale
Wow, it was a book before it was a movie. That’s so amazing. Does that sort of thing happen often? I guess that makes it ok, but I’m still a little skeptical. They must have changed it a great deal to make it into a movie. Now that you mention it, I think I do remember my father talking about WWII. You know, something about somewhere he went and something that happened there; but you definitely lost me on that last part. You say that the BOOK is the work of a hatemonger but also describe it in positive terms. You also say that this hatemonger was a professed Christian. How can a Christian be a hate monger or write about magic being used for good? I heard that magic is evil. Also, can I please stay here and peddle my mindless opinion? I didn’t know I was trespassing on an exclusive thread.

ThighMaster: I don’t understand how it works so I must take it on faith. Furthermore, I had slipped on some spilt ketchup when my head landed on Sean’s plate. It was the sticky pork&beans that made his wiener get lodged in my ear. I think it was a liberal conspiracy since the ketchup was Heinz.

talent scout: What are you, some kind of foreign/independent film lover? That sounds awfully liberal to me.

Boromir's Horn: You liked my first post? I basically implied that MacKinnon had a screw loose and anyone who took him seriously was being foolish. And no, I walked out of the theater thinking that I was going to super size my Coke and fries with my Big Mac.

Big Black Dog
In answer to your

"BTW--no red state will ever be hit by terrorists-there's not a single strategic city or state worth a nickle that calls itself conservative..."

Colorado Springs, CO.

MikeRRRRR and Little Black Puppy
You guys need to have someone check the dosage on your meds - maybe you were supposed to cut them in half?

So what do we do?
It's only logical that we will be subject to a nuclear attack--or, at the very least, an attempted one.

As pointed out in the article, there are many of these weapons on the loose. We know little about who has them, how many there are, how powerful they are, or their operational status.

We do know that Pakistan has a full-fledged nuclear weapons program, which will fall into the hands of our enemies if they succeed in taking over that country. North Korea has functioning weapons, may have long-range delivery systems, and assuredly has the will to use what they have. Iran is hot in pursuit of its own nuclear stash, aided and abetted by the Let's Negotiate crowd.

While a nuke won't fit into a suitcase, one WOULD fit into the SUV which would most likely be used.

We're up against people who have sworn many times to destroy us. This, however, is totally lost on the media, which has no qualms whatsoever about airing any classified material it can manage to procure. It's also totally lost on the politicians concerned only with their own electability, as witnessed by the shamnesty bill and the failure to secure our southern border. There seems to be a general obliviousness to the fact that an open society is also open to those who would like to see it destroyed.

So yes, we'll probably get hit.

The question is: Short of moving to the hinterlands, what can those of us living in or near cities likely to be targeted do to protect ourselves and our families, with full knowledge that we can expect no assistance from those assigned to provide it?

I'd start with stockpiling essentials. (For a list, go to http://www.ready.gov/america/getakit/index.html) I’d get together with my neighbors to work out a “civil defense” plan for our small area, including a plan for communicating non-electronically. I’d keep my guns in good working order.

Other ideas? (Please leave out the takes on the Duck and Cover drills of the fifties!)

To uwcharlie
I thought the free market was supposed to be our panacea. Won't that save us if we get nuked?

Little Black Puppy says:
"the death of 13 million Americans"

Wait, you're actually calling yourself an American? Doesn't that stick in your craw?

CitizenX
OK, so maybe you're right and all those Muslim cities should be bombed, nuked, vaporized. Let's talk about how your plan could be operationalized. War needs two things: money and personnel. As for the first, we already put the Iraq war on our national VISA card and, since you folks don't intend to pay taxes, would have to borrow the cost of any escalated war. War is VERY expensive. It has been known to bankrupt large, rich countries (example: France easily fell to the revolutionaries in 1789 because the King had already bankrupted France in his endless wars against Germany). So, Question # 1, if you set out to bomb all those places you said, where are you getting the money to bankroll wars?

Next point, manpower. The United States military has already dropped its recruitment standards. They will now take you if you are a convicted felon (have committed arson, aggravated assault, rape, kidnapping, armed robber, murder etc) and, as of last week, if you are a high-school dropout with no GED in sight. And, earlier, the upper age limit was extended into middle age. Not to mention, recruitment "bonuses" and other lures keep getting beefed up. And yet the military, in spite of these enticements, has trouble meeting its recruitment standards and the country does not seem to want a draft. So, Question #2: while you may not need a lot of guys to fly the plane that drops the nukes, you are going to need a whole LOT of guys to run the show after you have zapped everybody. How do you intend to staff your wars?

Lilly
Put away your resume, the military still draws the line at cheese eating surrender monkeys.

Realism and pessimism
The odds are probably better than 50-50 that we will eventually suffer a nuke attack by terrorists.

Other than that, I find the anonymous intelligence official cited by MacKinnon to be extremely pessimistic about the resilience and strength of Americans. There are heroes in the wake of every disaster -- a surreal feature of the Katrina coverage is that we heard so little about them from the mainstream media. But they were there. We will have them in the wake of a terrorist nuke attack (which is extremely UNlikely to come by missile, BTW).

My gravest concern about a nuke attack, other than the horror of so many people being slaughtered, is the seizure of even greater federal intervention and control in daily life that would most probably result.

But as for everything falling apart and Americans looting each other, as the overall prognostication -- calling the glass half-empty isn't analysis. It's just pessimism.

Look for 20 missiles Christmas AM
- As much as I want a 1500 mile double wall on the Mexican border, I'm expecting the attack to come by missiles launched from freighters a few hundred miles from shore, about 3am EST on a Christmas morning.

- Given our response won't be much different for 20 cities than for 2, I expect about 20 cities to be hit, including those with major Naval bases.

- The high irony is that 2/3's of those killed will be the Liberals that enabled the attack.

beyond the pale
Earlier, I posted to Talent Scout when it should have been you. Sorry about that. And thanks for your postings.

ThighMaster
What's he smoking? Dillweed, the pot or the kettle?

Nuking America
This is something I have long thought of, as I belive it will happen, no matter what, even if American so-called "liberals" may choose to close their eyes to reality. It all looks a great deal like a joke we used to tell, when I was a child, which ended with a line everyone thought it was very funny: "And then, when he woke up, he was dead." I am afraid this is what will happen to the USA: when it finally it wakes up, it will be dead and long gone. What would be the remedy for this? Would nuking "them" now do it, whomever "they" may be? That would be insane. But I do belive that the USA must create a retaliatory plan, let us call it the Samson Project, to blast Islam into hell, just as the Biblical Samson brought down the columns of the philistine temple on their heads (and I mean all Islamic nations, begining with the cities of Mecca and Medina). Then one must let these terrorist nuts know that in case the USA is nuked, they will all be blasted into hell. It may not stop the Islamic males, who all hope to be taken to some sort of heavenly whorehouse, as payment for their madness, but they must also think of their women and children, and what might become of them, if they ever attack the USA.

Boromir and Thigh
Okay, I'll take the plunge--you two have been quick to dish out the insults, and while big black dog seems overly fired-up (understatement), his response to Dave Stone is accurate. Why is he the only one on this thread condemning this kind of thinking?

How can any person say that that a nuclear conflagration has a silver lining because it would kill a lot of liberals? That's just plain sick. We're all Americans, and I don't care what the politics of some of the inhabitants of a city are--none of us should wish this on our fellow citizens. There are too many posts on this thread that seem to imply that a nuke going off in a "left-leaning" urban area would be acceptable collateral damage if it wakes up America--nonsense! As an American, I'm ready to fight to the death to defend ANY American city, not sitting back planning on how a million dead people can further my political viewpoints. Like it or not, guys like big black dog are Americans too--we're all in this together!

Ready
I'm not sure why this is so hard for some people to understand. At one time, EgyptAir 990 seemed absurd. That a pilot would crash his own plane for the glory of Allah? Whodathunkit? Maybe we could just write that one off, but then there was 9/11. Fool me once.......

Anyway, the endgame here is to create a level of panic that will cause us to destroy ourselves. A nuke could do that. A couple of nukes would most certainly do that.

We've become a nation of self-indulgent slobs. We want the government to approve our liaisons with members of the same sex and heaven knows what else. We want to kill inconvenient babies rather than live up to our obligations and have the audacity to call it a "choice." We obsess over the temperature of the planet, thinking that somehow we're big enough and powerful enough to impact it one way or the other. We have killed God and named ourselves God, and for that there will most certainly be hell to pay.

The terrorists understand us better than we understand ourselves. When I was growing up, Daddy used to use the phrase "Nero fiddled while Rome burned." I never understood it.

I do now.

Thigh
You're right about Big Black Dog's posts--just got done reading more of them and the level of vitriol is uncalled for.

Honestly, it wasn't so much of a double-standard (ignoring big's name-calling) on my part . . . I just see you and Boromir as people I'd be more likely to enjoy engaging in a conversation with . . .

A Couple of Thoughts
1) I can't remember where I heard or read this, but supposedly Al Qaeda has already selected the cities it wants to nuke. Being the melodramatic egotists that they are, it is their plan to hit SEVEN cities simultaneously. The Seven Cities are: Boston; New York; Washington D.C.; Miami; Houston; Las Vegas; Las Angeles.

Most of the cities are obvious targets due to their size. As I recall, Houston is on the list as an attempt at economic warfare to disrupt our oil distribution and Las Vegas is on the list because of it's "immorality".

2) From what I've read, the issue of "lost tactical nukes" of the Russians is over-hyped. The reason: The smaller the amount of nuclear material, the shorter the "shelf Life" of the war head. After the passage of years, these small warheads couldn't achieve a detonation, although the material could still be used for dirty bombs.

3) Speaking of dirty bombs, setting off a whole bunch in a subway system would "destroy" (i.e. render uninhabitable) a city as surely as a conventional detonation. If the subways in NYC, for example, were suddenly full of radiation, nobody could live on the lower end of Manhattan and it would become an abandoned ghost town.

4) Mackinnon is right in that our political and media elites are setting the stage, by sabotaging border defense and intelligence gathering, for a domestic attack.


hey
I just realized that I wrote something similar about a month ago and was extremely lambasted by some conservatives. Where were you guys then? I wrote that our greatest threat was terrorist nuclear attack and that the former Soviet Republic would be the source of the material. I was told I was rewriting history and that it would never happen. I know it was late in the thread so it might have not been noticed, but I didn’t get a single voice of support.

To those that say....
it has been 6 years since 9/11 and that there have been no attacks on us since; I say consider the following.

The terrorists of 9/11 did not plan the attack nor carry it out over night. They spent years training the men in our flight schools and in their terrorist camps to hijack and fly those planes. The enemy is patient and will quietly go about their preparation of a plan, how ever long it takes.

The Muslims who attacked London and Glasgow were highly trained medical professionals. They used their profession as a cover. A profession which takes quite some time in school to learn. Had the London bombs gone off as planned and had the Glasgow bomb been more of a fireball they would have made an effective attack.

The thwarted Fort Dix attack shows that they are willing to if need be use the lack of border security to hit us here in our home. If not for the work of our law enforcement and intelligence agencies the attack would have happened.

For all we know they could be at this moment training for their next attack. They could be quietly positioning people in critical positions, maybe even our own military, where they have access to the tools they need to carry out an attack or simply the cover to hide in plain sight until the day they make their move.

Am I fear mongering? No. I'm being realistic. I know what my enemy can do and I know what they are willing to do in order to attack me and my countrymen.

Thigh
Thanks for the invite!

I hope the following statement doesn't get me labeled as some sort of conspiracy wacko . . .

Maybe I'm too cynical and paranoid for my own good, but I've long subscribed to the viewpoint that there are "no coincidences" in history/politics. I believe that there are forces that are at work in the world to consolidate power(yes, I know, one-world governement conspiracy nutjob--go ahead). I've wondered for a while, "who benefits from the U.S. battling Islam?" I'm not sure who does, but if I were a global elitist who wanted to consolidate world power into the hands of a few people, I'd recognize that Islam, with its submission to bizarre, 6th century thinking, and the U.S., with it's large, spoiled, well-armed populace who don't follow directions or stand in line well, would be the two major obstacles to world control. While I think Islam is an enemy that must be fought, I often wonder if other forces are manipulating this fight to wear us down as a power.

ban haggai
Your suggestion of retaliation in the event of a nuclear attack, as opposed to a “preemptive strike” has been considered at Pentagon planning levels. I used to work at the Pentagon. It’s a simple scenario, where-in “Terrorist Friendly” nations are put on notice that their major cities have been targeted in the event of a nuclear strike against us. It’s a form of indiscriminate “group punishment”; the purpose of which is to encourage suspect nations to police their own back yards in order to avoid indiscriminate reprisals. How effective such “diplomacy” would be is unknown. But as one philosopher once said: “Ultimate diplomacy comes from the barrel of a gun”. And the Lib alternative of appeasement or doing nothing only invites a terrorist response. Note that nut cases such as “Lilly the Lying Looney Lib” never have practical answers: only criticism of any ideas from Conservatives. Her latest criticism that the US has neither the man power nor the money to retaliate under such a scenario, only demonstrates her ignorance of military matters. Such means of retaliation are already in place. Ask any C.O. of a SAC missile base or a “Boomer”. All it takes is a call from the Pres. a verification code, and the push of a button. But this assumes a government willing to do what it takes to save our nation from this very likely threat of nuclear attack: In view of current Liberalism and “political correctness”; this is a BIG assumption. Lilly also attempts to tie in “Free Market Economics” with this issue. This woman appears to have the IQ of Dead Tree Stump. Wake up Lilly and the rest of you Libs and smell the mushroom clouds.

MikeRRRRR
We only respond when you act like a knucklehead

ThighMaster
What insult?

Boromir's Horn
I think your key board is broken. The Rs seem to be repeating.

It Will Be Every Man and Woman
We will be Nuked. It may be a "Clean" nuke or a dirty nuke. Either way, many will die. All one has to look at is New Orleans to see that the Gov't will not protect you ar even be able to help you when the blast occurs. You had damn well be well armed, willing to use your firearm to protect you and your family. Looting, murdering, raping and gang banging will rule the day.

you people - all of you - are all crazy
and furthermore, you're nuts !

gee writes:
"While I think Islam is an enemy that must be fought, I often wonder if other forces are manipulating this fight to wear us down as a power."

I don't think there's any question about it. Ever go to the anti-war rallies, anti-abortion rallies, anti-you name it, the communist party and its hedge funds are there. I know, you probably think I'm Joe McCarthy incarnate, but it's a fact. Socialism has always had an attractive ideaology to certain personality types, but it's never had the proper funding until now.

There's an old saying "money is the root of all evil". A 21st century version would be "oil is the root of all evil". Take the oil from Chavez, Russia, the Middle East and the world would be just this side of Utopia.

MikeRRRRR
Sorry, didn't notice, it has audio response.

ThighMaster
That may have been the poorest attempt at humor ever seen, but it was not an insult. Exactly what was the real point of your question?

Boromir's Horn
Ok, now you got me laughing. That was a good one.

Thigh
This fight could very well be a simple, black and white issue and I may be reading too much into this.

However, I also think it's not crazy to keep an eye on those powers who would benefit from a nuclear-war-weary U.S. and Middle East (think China, Russia).

Often, we Americans, as a young power, are guilty of only looking a few years down the road (hell, our politicians seem to never look past the next election). I just hope that, while we fight the very real threat that Islam presents, that we keep our eye on anyone who's been manipulating the process toward their own ends.

I'm reminded of the Chinese official in the 70's (I think) who said "it's too early to tell" when he was asked how the French Revolution had affected the world. We in the U.S. could uses some leaders who are looking 25, 50, 100 years down the road.

Interesting flame war so far
I've been sitting back enjoying the flame war so far, but I had to reply to the following by our friend BBD:

"The right wing has been moaning about potential nuclear attacks since the days of the Soviet Union - notice how they're ALWAYS wrong? First they were wrong about the dominos falling after 'Nam and now they're wrong about a so-called nuclear attack because the of the NY Times (whom they balmes fot their loss in 'Nam as well)."

So, this means that no innocent people in suth vietnam died after we pulled out, (after the dems cut funding)? No innocent people died in Laos, and Cambodia? I guess all those stories of Pol Pot's killing fields were just part of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.

I agree that some posters here have gone over the line a bit about losing "liberal" cities.
You have to understand that our security has been compromised by actions of liberals in congress, and the media.

There was no real reason for the NYT to leak the info about NSA programs to tap terrorist phones, or trace bank transactions, (which was 100% legal, even the NYT admitted that). They only did it to weaken GWB and the republican party, so they could help elect a good democrat to the WH.

And yes, bush has been absolutely horrible when it comes to border security, but his biggest cheering sectrion in that arena has been on the left not the right. So even when he does somethng that you approve of, you still find a way to hate him for that too.

The last thing I ever want to see is a mushroom cloud over a major city, (or a minor one for that matter) But I'm fairly convinced that another major attack is what it is going to take for us to stop hitting the snooze button, and actually wake up.

9/11 should have been our modern Pearl Harbor, but instead of waking up, we began fighting each other for more blankets.
Abe Lincoln had it right "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

MikeR 12:47 post
It is too bad that you are not understanding the conversation--The reference I started to LOTR was due to the name "Boromir's Horn" It was my opinion that his name was an appropriate and witty commentary that added to his post. I thought I would further the allusion, because it makes me smile to do so, and it was directed completely at the people on the thread who understood it.
You are correct I should have put "hatemonger" in quotes, in order for the reader who is under 30 to understand the sarcasm, but I felt the sarcasm was blindingly obvious.
In future I will try to only reference things on a fourth grade level so we can--shall we say--make the playing field fair?

Disaster
After the finger pointing, foreign policy lessons and all the other tripe being tossed around; the real question remains. If something
like this were to happen....WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? No, don't tell me, I don't want to know.
Go to that secret place in your heart, where you can't lie, and tell yourself.

Boromir
No, you're no "Joe McCarthy"! The forces of worldwide socialism/communism are, I believe, very real, and could very well be manipulating conflict between the U.S. and Islam because both are powers that aren't readily "getting in line" to dance to their tune.

By the way, I enjoy any and all references to any of Tokien's works . . .

beyond the pale
I don’t understand. Was the LOTR written for 4th graders? I guess you got me there. It seems some people miss sarcasm even when it is “blindingly obvious”.

Don't doubt yourself
There is a proverb from Solomons writings.
"Thoughts of the righteous are right"


gee writes:

I hope the following statement doesn't get me labeled as some sort of conspiracy wacko . . .

Maybe I'm too cynical and paranoid for my own good, but I've long subscribed to the viewpoint that there are "no coincidences" in history/politics. I believe that there are forces that are at work in the world to consolidate power(yes, I know, one-world governement conspiracy nutjob--go ahead).
---------------

Dig into the history of western banking and the Central Banks.

Then check out who financed Lenin to begin with.

Communism is based on the very same principals that corporations are.

For one to monopolize any government, he must also monopolize business or vice-versa

Quote a monopolist
"the best business of all is the business of politics"


"The love of money is the root of all evil"

As far as the CFR and Trilateral Commission

Starting with James Earl Carter in 1976, every successive administration has been dominated by members of the Commission -- for 35 years, they have had their way with trade policy, creation of global treaties, monetary policy and the usurping of American sovereignty.

You are in good company if you can see through the coverings they offer for public consumption as to their "good intentions" for us all.
ha ha


http://www.apfn.org/THEWINDS/library/money.html

Just one of the quotes from men in the know

The fact is that there is a serious danger of this country becoming a pluto-democracy; that is, a sham republic with the real government in the hands of a small clique of enormously wealthy men, who speak through their money, and whose influence, even today, radiates to every corner of the United States.

William McAdoo - President Wilson's national campaign vice-chairman, wrote in Crowded Years (1974)

oldguy
Good point--that is the question we each must answer for ourselves. All of the discussion related to the subject is probably just "whistling past the graveyard" on my part.

God forgive me for saying this....
But I hope the nuke goes off in DC. Then those who have betrayed us for decades, selling us down the river for their own political and monetary gain, will get what they most richly and justly deserve.

Of course, if it doesn't, and goes off somewhere else, then the question becomes this....

What will you do in the police state that will follow? You think your freedoms are curtailed now....you just wait!!

And....BTW....I'm sure that somehow, these rotten pus bags will find a way to blame it all on Christians and start rounding us up for a little "cleansing".

Big Black Dog writes:
"Sir, the dog crapp that I stepped over this morning is a better American than you and your future spawn..."

Oh please, now your going to tell me New York doesn't have indoor plumbing?

dillweed writes:

"i am ashamed to be an American right now"

America says the feeling is mutual

MikeR
It wasn't meant as a "gotcha" it was meant as a clarification, a conceding of a point, so that you would understand that I take your sarcastic critism of my, and other's, writing style seriously.


Citizen X

""Citizen X writes: Wednesday, August, 15, 2007 10:17 AM
Darren, I propose we secure the "boarders" ""

Listen citizen, please, please, please.......

"Boarders" are people living someplace that is not their home..........................

"Borders" are the lines between entities, ie., countries, states, counties, whatever.

Is there still someone who doesn't understand the difference, please.............................


Onceamarine
Well, it probably is a good idea to secure our boarders and our borders . . . shouldn't neglect either . . .

Gabby
All Muslim males between the ages of 18 and 45 should be on surveillance five years ago.

Ya vol, mein commandant.....


gabby
IF we get nuked it will be for these two reasons:
1. Democrats
2. The Drive-by-Media
I can agree with you on the basis that we definately should have been tougher in defending ourselves utilizing the methods you enumerate, but the biggest hindrance throughout this entire ordeal has unquestionably been the Left. Maybe not specific democrat elected officials (though "Baghdad" Jim McDermit, Dick "goulag" Derbin, and Jack "Okinawa" Murtha come to mind), but certainly the libs that run these various government agencies who have been leaking intelligence info in the prosecution of this war precisely for the purpose of hamstringing Bush are complicit. Then you have the drive-bys intentionally distorting the NSA terrorist surveillance program leaving people with the idea that Bush is spying on everybody. There are countless examples of this as you go back these six years. There has been one side, Bush, that has actively engaged the enemy and one side, the Left, that has actively labored to harm that effort.

Big Dog
You seem to be a very passionate idiot. You've written a lot of stupid things today but your recent posting about 4,000 of our soldiers dying for no reason is particularly assanine. Now I know you probably think most of our soldiers are too incompetent to get real jobs in the states and therefore have to join in order to survive in this lousy economy, but you will never be fit to lace thier bootstraps in this life or the next. The fact of the matter is every one of those brave fallen soldiers were there of thier own volition, which makes thier sacrifice that much more awesome. They believed they were there for a reason, as do those who remain there today. Rip on Bush all you want you little pissant, but you're not qualified to judge whether the sacrifice of our brave men and women in the middle east was for "absolutely no reason".

The EMP is what will destroy us
All of us need to be informed about high-altitude EMP and how it can transform America into a third-world country literally at the speed of light. (yes, this can be done by detonating just ONE nuclear bomb.)

Yes, it can be done -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

And here's who's trying to do it -
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43956

We only have a few more years, folks. MacKinnon
is right about America being a nuclear target, but our enemies will not target their first nuclear strike at an American city. It will first be a high-altitude EMP blast, so that we will be rendered impotent and defenseless. Then, what does it matter if they finish us off using low-altitude nukes, conventional bombs or flame throwers? We will be finished nonetheless. All of us depend on electricity for everything, water, gas, sewer, not to mention commerce, goods, and communication. When it goes, this entire country will turn into the Hurricane Katrina aftermath. Of course our enemies want to do this to us, it is the most effective way to render all of us useless in the blink of an eye, without even requiring a suicide volunteer, and not having to worry about counterattack. So STOP thinking the Iraq war needs to end, we need our troops to be there so we can invade Iran when America becomes crippled by Iranian EMP. The only deterrent for the Iranians is the American GI's next door, and the fact that they have not been able to produce or acquire a nuke just yet. But the Liberals are working feverishly to remove all deterrents to the islamic caliphate that is promised to come by our fanatical enemies.

If it has to
If it has to happen and like most of you I think it will happen. Let's hope DC and San Fran are are the targets. Make sure that both the HOUSE and SENATE are in session and whom ever is in the WHite House is HOME. Than we can rebuild AMERICA like the Founding Fathers had in mind when the told us to arm ourselves so when the people who are running things are out of control we can remove them and defend our RIGHTS!!!! As far as SAN FRAN I just can not seem to think of a nicer group of people for that type of thing to happen to. Enough Said. Roger and OUT!

Big? Dogg
I noticed you have your own site - who's your advertiser, Charmin? Maybe you can solicit Listerine to give you a few samples, your breath stinks

Big? Dogg barks
"The troops in Iraq died for nothing. Bin laden is still free, Saddam was a paper tiger, al queda is still going strong, Muslim extremists have hardly abated and

Big Stupid is still running his mouth

Big dog
I think you misunderstood. You see, I wasn't suggested that you lack the ability to say whatever idiotic thing you want to, but rather the intellectual wherewithall to be given any serious consideration. You can say that those who fought bravely and perished in Vietnam did so in vain but if so only because of the malpractice of the democrat party and the drive-by media. But I digress.
The troops who have died in Iraq are heroes who were there to remove a threat to our security while having the dual benefit of liberating a nation from a brutal tyrant. Bin Laden's probably dead, and the only reason Al-qaida still exists is because they've been emboldened and encouraged by the Left. You probably should consider the nature of this enemy, because we will be fighting them long after we're gone, and longer still if dopes like you get your way.

how it ends
I couldn't read all the responses: 188 so far, wow!
A nuke attack on the U.S. would unleash ALL our military capabilities. The Bush Doctrine of preemptive strike would apply so far as we would probably not care to bother to find out exactly who was responsible. We would nuke everything that even looked dangerous. We probably wouldn't strike Russia or China unless there was proof that they took part in the dirty deed.
IN other words there would be a lot less virgins in heaven as a result.
The need for political caution and calculation would have evaporated along with whatever target got hit. It would be unfettered war.

Big Stupid
The only thing I find funny is the way you growl and snap and act so tough all the while you have your own dried up bodily excrement's hanging off your tail.

Big Black Dog
you should be thankful dueling is outlawed. I'd be grateful for the opportunity to scrape you off my shoe.

To all in the fray
To all in the fray on this board in the "firefight" with the left--

"What can men do against such reckless hate?"

Gabby
You suggested that the government should be tracking all muslim males in this country between the ages of 18 and 45. That is far different then keeping them out of this country. Perhaps you are the ignorant one.

beyond the pale
Actually, I dont see it as a "firefight" at all. Simply a pointless exchange of insults. Pointless, but slightly amusing... in a bored hour...


badboy
I have to give you the credit for the MOST pointless and the most cliched post though..

badboy: "I excoriated you for saying that holding hands with the commies running the USSR and singing Kum Ba Yah,"

NO one "said" anything remotely like this on this thread. IF someone had suggested "holding hands with the commies... singing kum ba yah", that person would be a complete idiot. This "kum ba yah" reference is SO last century, and such a cliche it pains me to read it. Strawman.

Badboy: "I've got a big bridge in New York City that I'd like to sell you."

And not being satisfied with the "kum ba yah" cliche... you just HAD to close on the "bridge for sale"... Jezzzz.

La-La Land
Even most people here live in La-La Land. Two weeks ago local cops and NJ state troopers stopped a car with two "Middle Eastern"-looking men driving who had explosives in their trunk (5 miles from me). The FBI was called in. The drivers were 5 miles from Oyster Creek Nuclear Facility (10 miles from me.) Only ABC News online carried the story (Google Goose Creek.)

The nuts who were going to get into Fort Dix and shoot everyone they saw would have been 20 miles from me.

The conspirators who wanted to blow up the fuel pipelines to JFK Airport (not a credible threat, acc. to The NY Times, which carried the story on an inside page in the Metropolitan section) would be 60 miles from me. (Authorities are still arresting people related to that plot and extradicting people overseas.)

The Twin Towers was 60 miles from me and my town and county lost many lives there. When the jihadists nuke NYC, it will take 3-5 minutes from the effect to reach me, depending on the size of the bomb. A one-megatone bomb will move Newark 3 fett west and Brookly 3 feet east. Mid-Manhattan would be a crater.

For those who figure they're protected. I know I'm not.

jimmy joe
Do you have some sort of point to make?

Hank
Er... I think I made it...unless you want me to repeat it. Nothing too complicated in what I said...

..just for even further clarification..
Hank to Big Dogg: "...you little pissant,"

Boromir's Horn to Big Dogg: "Big Stupid is still running his mouth"

Big Dogg to Boromir's Horn: "And BTW, fool..."

Etc etc... Totally pointless. Just mouthing off. No persuasiveness. No effort to get the other to see one's own view... You know. As in actually making SOME effort to communicate...

So what's the point..
in posting?

Allah AKBAR
The setting: Basement of a suburban house in AMERICA.
The purpose: To accomplish the NUKE bombing of a city.
The problem: One of the suicide bombers fears a NUCLEAR bomb result but not a regular bomb.

Allah AKBAR!.

listen now my fellow "freedom fighters" today we must Give of ourselves to free our people from the GREAT SATAN (america)...

We have brought you volunteers for a mission on the same lines as the 9/11 attackers.... May you all have 72 VIRGINS draped upon you when this is over....

EXCUSE ME,,, EXCUSE ME,,, YES WHAT do you want???

I'm a little scared of this Nuclear bomb, can I just explode a regular one instead? NO

Why not? Because a regular bomb won't do crap compared to the "REAL" thing.

Well don't you think that moving up to NUCLEAR bombs is taking this a little to far? I mean look at the LIBERALS in this country,,, they are on our side. If we don't upset LIBERALS by going NUCLEAR and just staying CONVENTIONAL then they will stay on our side. We also said we were not trying to acquire these bombs and by using 1 will be shown to be lying. We don't want to be liars do we?

Why AHMED,,,, your right.. get that nuclear thing off and use the regular one instead... we can keep the LIBS with us this way (until we get a few more "real" bombs here).... GOOD LUCK AND GOD (ALLAH) BLESS

If a million illegals
can sneak into our country each year, isn't it reasonable to conclude that hundreds/thousands of terrorists can? We will be hit at some point. Many will die and the economy will tank. I can only pray it will only be one city.

Things worse than "The Bomb"
Not to diminish the possibility of a nuclear attack, but there are worse scenarios available to Islamic fundamentalists and easier to implement than a nuclear attack. I refer to an economic attack which could be far more debilitating. But we should be prepared for both.

I am not so sure....
> Songo writes: EMP ...will stop Cheney's
> pacemaker

I am not so sure. His chest would absorb a great deal of the EMP, would it shield the device and pacemakers in general have a whole lot more shielding than in past due to concerns about microwave ovens.

Remember too that the EMP is a ray of "light" that behaves like light and is a one-time thing. So if he was in a basement or underground, he wouldn't be affected.

EMP
Pirate, Turelie: It takes an H-Bomb to cause EMP, per my son, the physics major. Now, if you used a flux generator coil weapon to cause EMP, that's doable. IIRC, an article in PopSci or PopMech a few years ago worried about that problem.

CT
CT: " I can only pray it will only be one city."

... Presumably NOT the city of which you are residence?? Heh. Just kidding!

BadBoy
Thank you so much for confirming my accusation. I can always count on you to open your mouth wide enough for both feet to be inserted. It seems your reactionary nature overrides your intellect on a consistent basis.

I never suggested a hand holding policy even in a joking manner. What I suggested and still claim is that a devious, well organized hegemony of economic policy could have been very effective and spared us the danger of loosing control of Soviet nukes. Furthermore, I believe that every plan of action, however successful comes at a cost and that the cost is not always obvious at first.

Your reasoning is that of a carpenter whose sole possession is a hammer. Without any other tools you really can’t build much. If you doubt the power of economics, consider China. When I was young, she too was a dangerous enemy. Now, China will do anything in her power to prevent a major upheaval in this country, including one from a terrorist attack.

You see, communism just doesn’t work and can never be made to work. It will always collapse with time. It is the actions we take that will either hasten or delay the inevitable

Bigg Dog
You claim the US didn’t have what it takes to finish the job in Vietnam. Regardless of what we may think of the politics of that war or this one, it’s obvious from your post you have no military background or you’d realize the absurdity of your statement. I’m a retried senior Naval Officer who served in Vietnam as a carrier based fighter pilot. So here are FACTS you’re obviously unaware of. We were Severely restricted in terms of military ops. I don’t point the finger at Democrats. These restrictions might have been mandated even were Republicans in power. We’ll never know. Target and strategic planning was a politically sensitive matter dictated by Civilians who just happened to be Democrats. But I can absolutely assure you of this. In a different world, (not saying it would be a good one), where the military called the shots, an UNRESTRICTED war would have been won within months after we became actively involved. Of course we’re talking about Unrestricted bombing and an invasion of North VN. But “Political Correctness” at the time prohibited this. We were there to supposedly “assist” South VN; not make the war our own. But you don’t have to be a military authority like me to know this. A little homework on your part would have told you the same thing.

Robert E Lee
So freedom is out? Will your government have special police to enforce “true Christian values”? Maybe you could model them after the one the Taliban use.

Bigg Dogg
Yes. As you now put it; you’re correct. Under the ROE in place at the time, the military was severely limited. But to compound this problem, senior officers not only initially underestimated their capabilities, but realizing this, they often resorted to lies and distortions in reports to their civilian authorities concerning this and other aspects of the war. I served briefly as a Pentagon staff officer and was aware of this. Obviously I could do nothing at the time. But I have no problem admitting it now that I’m retired.

Unifying the Family of America
Remember the old adage; NO one picks on my little brother but ME. That is the lesson the world hasn't learned about America. We may pick fights with ourselves, however, when the neighbors get involved watch out. As most democrats do Not count the 10-13 hits America took in the 90's, because it wasnt home, it was over there, it was them. 9-11 ws a wake up. Al-Quieda is 1 for 2 versus the WTC, everyone was PO'd, at first and then after the smoke cleared and they kept the bodies falling thru the air off the news everyone calmed and went back to grazing on their cud, again secure in their beliefs. Until the next time. WHen they HIt something the Dems love, then they will give a D$*#.

The bigger issue
All the world's ills-- war, famine, poverty, global warming-- can be traced to the bigger issue of over population. If we don't fix it with a good war, then mother nature will. Only she won't be discriminating.

FASCINATING, ALL THE ISLAMOPHOBIC BIGOTS
Time to take our quiz, folks.

1) Which country was the first to threaten the US with nuclear weapons?

2) Which country was the first to develop missiles to use on the US?

3) Which country is currently ruled by a former KGB agent?

4) Which country today (8/17/07) announced that it is resuming permanent nuclear bomber patrols against the US?

5) Which country is currently conducting joint "anti-terrorism" exercises with the Chinese?

6. Which country officially changed its attitude about the United States from "neutral" to "enemy" about a year-and-a-half ago?

7. Which country is the only country known to have produced suitcase nukes?

8. Which country has the technical ability to bring tactical nukes into the US and detonate them?

9. Which country hates Muslims so much that it massacres and tortures Muslims in Chechnya on a regular basis?

10. Which country would have a strong incentive use the bigotry of many Americans against Islam and Muslims to misdirect attention away from their organized atomic sneak attack on the US (an inverted "Sum of All Fears"?

People better start waking up. Communism may be in the dustbin of history, but its successors in its function are waiting to add America to the pile.

So? Prepare!
Make a list of what you will need if the unthinkable happens. Make a bunch of lists. Check out the survival blogs. Teach yourself and then teach your family and your neighbors. Stock up and make plans; include simpatico people in the hood. It's a lot easier to survive hardship with friends and fellow travelers around you. The pilgrims came here hundreds of years ago with equipment that was laughable in today's standards. Most survived anyway and became stronger. We have a great edge in available technology and equipment. Use it!
Life should always hold challenges, they temper us and make us stronger. As pampered Americans, most of us have seen our physical, mental and moral strength eroded by too many easy times.
Next time you see a street scene of the carnage in Iraq, imagine yourself living there. Think about what it would be like to awake every day knowing that you must continue to fight and kill for clean water and food to keep your precious family alive. If the doomsters are right; You may one day find you and yours in that dismal street scene. Prepare, now!

racerx
Absolute nonsense. But a question for you. IF the world is overcrowded, why dont YOU leave?

Do you think the Eagles would Soar?
If we were attacked by a suitcase nuke, do you think we'd launch our missiles in a retaliatory strike?

OK. Given, it might be impossible to determine who ordered the attack. But any terrorist organization has to have some patrons who make it possible for them to continue to exist.

Anyway, wondering about our impending MAD, got me thinking about an old Robert A. Heinlein book entitled "Farnham's Freehold".

Interesting take on it though. In Heinlein's scenario, all the European countries were devastated and the African countries took advantage to rule the world. Predictably, their new world is no better than the old one destroyed.

On Amazon - http://tinyurl.com/27l5zy

America attacked
Our problem is simple. The Constitution states that it is the job of our government is to protect the country. Our polititians completely ignore that responsibility in favor of getting together to divide up the "tax pie". (My senior senator is DICK Durbin. I know of what I speak.)

DICK Durbin is typical of many in Washington who believe that their only job is spending our money, and if they filter enough cash back to their cronies at home and throw us a few bones as well, we'll just let them carry on with their thievery with little complaining. Little men like DICK will never lift a finger to protect us. They never have, and they never will.

To fix the problem, we need to vote these jokers out of office in 2008. It's America's only chance. We must get rid of the dreck early on, removing them in the primaries if possible. Get them off their respective tickets before it's too late! Get rid of every bad apple over the next three elections.

It Can be done!


I've just be reading the posts here
This board is crowded with nut cases. It is crowded with people with all sorts of sub-clinical political paranoias. This country is really in trouble when so many of its citizens live detached from reality, and blaming their selected demons for all the ills. The same is true of other political boards with different ideologies, but this is by far the worst. And we think the Islamists are nuts ...! this group here is certainly in the race for the title. Grow up, you people!

1AKANASIA
There is a differnce in being NUTS and being PISSED OFF. Most of us here on this little chat have had enough of the de-Americanization of America by our elected officials, whether they be Democrat or Republican. To compare us to murdering Islamic fanatics is what I call NUTS.

Please remember
I may not like it but "The price of liberty is paid in blood" This situation is not a game. Its very serious and if we cant get together on it I fear we are doomed.

1AKANASIA
I agree with you... the paranoid right-wing extremists crawling all over this site are as deluded and pathetic as the people they hate so much. Two sides of the same coin.
--
Peace



The problem is ideological
The problem with America is we are dealing with an enemy that is cunning and to our sensibilities a backward and weak appearing group. This is always the most cunning aspect of a situation such as this. These people seem so inacapable of the scenarios presented to those who don't understand the ideas and the amount of individuals involved in this belief system. The 911 hijackers used boxcutters and thier modus operandi seemed so simple. They don't look overwhelming like the Nazi's or Soviets. The real issue is that Americans in general don't believe in the things their forebears did. The history of the country, it's constitution, and values and religious heritage is increasingly denied. This being something that occurs in an ever rapidly way over the years has led to moral and spiritual lethargy on the part of large parts of the American populace. The terrorists understand this better than we do in the environment we live in. Like Rome we are in a weakened position- not militarily but in values and unity. We are ripe for this. If it occurs, we may come back- but who knows? This is all different and the state of our country has never been more morally and ethically weak. I love this country and would die for it. As a Christian I know my ultimate fate is secure. I know my fellow Americans are less and less likely to believe these things. This is called "rotting from within". God help us to wake up.

Wake Up Lefties
1. Secure the borders
2. Boot or jail illegals that don't come clean
3. Shut down every jihad supporting org in the US (CAIR, ACLU etc).
4. Bring punitive measures against Saudi Arabia, the main source of global jihad financing (believe it or not we can live without Saudi oil).
5. Pray to god that a nuke doesn't go off.

We are at war and it will be a long one. The cold war was 50 years, this may take longer. There is no acceptable compromise with Islamo-nutjobs except for Sharia and submission. Do lefties think that suicide bombs and dirty nukes are designed to kill right-wing infidels only? Islamo-nutjobs will gripe about every so-called injustice all the way back to the crusades. Giving Spain back to them will not cure their griping. If one nuke goes off in the US, the immediate response should be to turn Saudi Arabia into a glass parking lot. The rest of our time should be spent hunting down every terrorist cell under every rock on the planet. That's the only language these subhumans understand.

The hype is worse than the reality.
A 15 kT nuke (about the largest size terrorists are likely to be able to steal or build) in Indianapolis would just barely cause severe damage out to the zoo. Apart from flying glass, no one out of immediate downtown would have much to fear. Those of us outside I 465 would only be aware of it as a loud noise.

The body count at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was the result of Japanese population densities and air bursts.

Granted, this scenario is not pleasant. But the deaths would be in the thousands, not the millions.

My concern is the large number of people who panic when faced with a trigger word like "Nuclear," "Pit Bull," "Semiautomatic Assault Weapon," "Laser Pointer" or "High Capacity Magazine."

Their terror, panic, rioting and lemminglike scurrying will cause more damage than a small nuke.
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