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Saturday, June 27, 2009
Doug Giles :: Townhall.com Columnist
“And Iran, Iran So Far Away, I Couldn’t Get Away,” Sung by Barack Obama
by Doug Giles
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Obama said in his latest hem-hawing, foreign policy bloviating, what-the-hell-is-he-talkin’-about press conference that “we need to have a vigorous debate” regarding Iran’s current tyrannical Muslim-based governmental crushing of young people who desire a touch of freedom.

We need to debate? “We” who, BHO?

I’m guessin’ he is talking about American liberals and conservatives because—from what I can deduce from the YouTube vids—it appears as if the Iranian dissidents aren’t looking for lively banter with the death dealing, lying through coffee-stained teeth religious whack jobs who look like a group of angry, homeless Santa Clauses on crack.

A debate, Mr. O? Really?

FYI to the Whitehouse: Ayatollahs, mullahs, and Ahmadinejads don’t discuss stuff. They shoot you in the face. You don’t believe me? Well, then just ask Neda, a beautiful freedom-loving 26-year-old Iranian protester who lives in Tehran. What’s that? The Tehran terror cops, the Basij, shot her? See, I told you so. Uncut Islam doesn’t debate; it deals death to dissenters and, it seems, Mohammed is cool with that. Jesus isn’t okay with it, but Mohammed is.

Yes, El Presidente, you kind of need two intelligent parties that are able to chill in order to actually have a profitable discussion.

From what I’ve seen, historically speaking, a vigorous and beneficial chat is the perk that a Judeo-Christian based nation, which has an armed citizenry, gets to enjoy. Oppressive, mucked-up Muslim nations like Iran don’t argue about their bogus elections or dictates with intelligent, liberty-loving, non step-n-fetch rebels. As stated, they pistol whip them, split their skulls with a night stick, drag non-compliant co-eds around by their scalps, or simply pull out their guns and double tap the center mass of the unarmed non-compliants. God only knows what we’re going find out about the June 24th, 2009 massacre in Baharestan square. I heard they used axes and threw protestors off pedestrian bridges.

Ah . . . Islam in action. How peaceful. What an awesome religion.

Y’know, after watching the past two weeks of Ayatollahs Gone Wild, slamming their zealous fists on their podiums, spewing more propaganda than Robert Gibbs does during his weekly presser, and pummeling any and all dissenting voices, I’m sure many people around the world are lining up to become Muslims and move to a country governed by mullahs. It looks fun, doesn’t it? I mean, it’s a little bloody and oppressive and all, but hey . . . nobody is perfect.

From a PR standpoint, Iran is for Islam what Perez Hilton is for homosexuality.

And Barack wants to have a debate? A debate? Puh-lease.

It must be nice to live in la-la-land where trees are made of chocolate, where cigarettes fall from heaven, where you can print trillions of dollars and idiots approve it, where your administration can Pac Man the private sector, tax the crap out of our people, rob their health care, hard sell us bogus energy bills, while gutting the constitution—a place where you get to be the leader of the most powerful place on the planet simply because you can read a mean teleprompter.

I don’t believe the Iranians who’d like a free election (shame on them) want us to mediate a spicy round table spat. I think they desire a little more. I think they want us to meddle on a Guns & Ammo type level. Thus the protest signs in English. Kinda seems odd they’d go English with their placards if they didn’t want our attention and involvement.

I, for one, believe that we should meddle in such slave states. The “we” I believe that should intervene is the old America spelled with a “c” and not the new Amerika spelled with a “k”.

The reason I think it’s a good thing Obama and his admin stays the hell out of this Iranian throw down is two fold: If the young Iranians can topple their crap government, it’ll be a real morale boost, eh? I know it was for America’s founding fathers, God bless ‘em.

Secondly, if I were a Neda in Iran, I wouldn’t trust Obama as far as I could spit a loogie. Why? Well, it seems as if he has a soft spot for Muslim terrorists. Yep, this President is the same guy who, just before Iran’s election, sent the Ayatollah a good luck letter, is releasing 250 of the worst SOBs on the planet (the terrorists from Gitmo) to foreign countries (I hear the recidivist rate among terrorists is rather high), whose DOJ appointees want to prosecute CIA operatives who crack down on terrorists (hello), and who’s giving, I believe, over a billion dollars in aid via the UN to frickin’ Hamas. Yes, if I were a dissident I would tell BHO and his boys thanks, but no thanks.

Finally, mad to props to GWB for spawning hope for free elections in the heart of young Iranians as they watched their next-door neighbors enjoy real democracy in Iraq.

Oh . . . and one more thing. I don’t hear too many “moderate Muslims” condemning Iran’s murderous mullahs. Hmmm. That’s interesting. You’d figure they’d be on those mooks like stink on a monkey. But maybe they’re just too busy. Who knows?

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Doug Giles’ new book “If You're Going Through Hell, Keep Going!" is now available. Ann Coulter says "Doug Giles is a substantive and funny tour de force for traditional values.” Doug’s talk show and video blog can be seen and heard at www.ClashRadio.com.
 
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Doug, wrong wrong wrong
Who wouldn't love to see Obama debate Ahmadinejad? I would. I am sure millions of us would.

There would be Barack with his magnificently crafted speech and his brigade of teleprompters, and there would be this raving mad lunatic shaking his fist and spewing hatred at Barry's smiling blue lips and Dumbo ears, with Barry not understanding a word of it.

Hey, he wants to "ENGAGE." Let him engage -- fun for all to watch. No one here with half a brain takes him seriously as a president, and it's obvious that Iran doesn't either.

mullahs the world over.
i have stated before on other sites, barry is a mullah, he really doesn't care about their freedom, he's too busy stealing ours. after all he is the leader of one of the "largest muslim nations in the world".

obama, ahmadinejad, not much difference
obama won't criticize ahmadinejad because his election was won in the same manner. In PA black muslim thugs intimidated voters and obama's DOJ dropped the charges. obama had complete control of the media to silence opposition and ACORN and other left groups bought votes.

The Trouble with Reality
Like the man says: where are all of those moderate Muslims we keep hearing about? Why aren’t they speaking out in defense of their brethren (you know; the folks being slaughtered in the streets of Iran)? Could it be that they are siding with the Mullahs? Their silence speaks volumes!

As for Obama; he seems to believe that if he can only get the various dictators and the poor souls seeking freedom around the world to sit down and bask in his presence then all violence would end. I suspect that Obama has actually bought into the media image of himself as a great orator and statesman; a master of negotiation and mediation. It is too bad that reality tends to intrude on this little media created fantasy.

John McCain was wrong,
Obama is not timid. After all, he has no problem criticizing America every chance he gets. Rather, he's submissive...to Allah/the mullahs, as his true religion tells him to be. That is what the word Islam means after all: submission. Remember how many days it took him to say *anything* about the kidnapping by the Somali pirates? His reaction is something other than diplomacy, as his posture with Muslim nations has always been deferential.

The guy's a lightweight
Obama is out of his league. His brand of diplomacy is nothing new, he's learned from the best, the UN. All talk not much action and when he does act everyone pays dearly. Honestly, I think community organizer was above his pay grade. It could take our country years to recover from the damage he can do, if unopposed.
This all would be very amusing if it were a skit on SNL. Buckle up folks.

Our President was an ACORN facilitator!
Does that not say it all?

I’ll see you one Flock of Seagulls
and raise you one Styx

(Sung to the tune of Renegade with all due apologies to Styx)

Obama, I’m in fear for my life from the wrong arm of the mullah
Mahmoud’s has put an end to my voting and I’m so far from my home

Obama I can’t hear you even trying you’ve dared to leave me alone
Vain-man’s a dumbing down the shallow and I don’t have very long




ACORN elected a wimp
who has NEVER done anything, not stood consistently on a cause (excuse me, abortion has been a winner for King Elect O), never concceived and shepherded an entire bill through to law, neved led a Cub Scout troop, and never closed out a register at Taco Bell.

He is STUPID.

Here are the cap and trade traitors and their numbers. Make their lives h*ll.

Mary Bono Mark R-CA 202-235-5330
Mike Castle R-DE 202-255-4165
Mark Steven Kirk R-IL 202-255-4835
Leonard Lance R-NJ 202-255-5361
Frank LoBiondo R-NJ 202-255-6572
John McHugh R-NY 202-255-4611
David Reichert R-WA 202-225-7761
Chris Smith R-NJ 202-255-3765

A Couragous Man !

Thanks, Doug for standing and calling the "moderate" muslims on this. I can't speak for you, but it is my belief that there ain't no such thing!

The Second protects the rest

Obama says Islam is a heavenly religion

Reuters June 11, 2009

"CAIRO (Reuters) - Barack Obama has presented a fresh understanding of Islam not shown by predecessors, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said in his first interview since the U.S. president addressed the Muslim world from Cairo.

Obama called for a "new beginning" in ties between the United States and Muslims, many of whom felt targeted by the "war against terror" launched by former President George W. Bush after the September 11, 2001 attacks, and his wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

"Under the past administration, there was a feeling that the Islamic world was a group of terrorists, Islam was hated and Muslims should be watched, and that the previous administration was scared of any Muslim," Mubarak said.

"But Obama came and said we will not fight Muslims and Islam. He is a sympathetic man, and says the United States will not fight Islam because Islam is a heavenly religion," he told state television in an interview broadcast late Wednesday..."

Bad Move to believe Barack Obama

One point I keep hearing about Iran is why are the protesters holding up signs in English?

Iran has one of the youngest populations of any country in the World.

The young Iranian protesters who are risking their lives and dying, know the only country who helps bring about freedom is America.

Meanwhile, Barack Obama seems to be only worried about what the old 'Mullahs' might think of him.

Maybe the Iranians thought Obama's speech in Cairo could be believed:

"That does not lessen my commitment, however, to governments that reflect the will of the people.

Each nation gives life to this principle in its own way, grounded in the traditions of its own people.

America does not presume to know what is best for everyone, just as we would not presume to pick the outcome of a peaceful election.

But I do have an unyielding belief that all people yearn for certain things: the ability to speak your mind and have a say in how you are governed; confidence in the rule of law and the equal administration of justice; government that is transparent and doesn't steal from the people; the freedom to live as you choose.

Those are not just American ideas, they are human rights, and that is why we will support them everywhere."
Barack Obama
Cairo Egypt

A Grin and a Smile

When the only tool one has is a hammer, all problems begins to look like a nail.

Every success Barack Obama has 'Achieved', every problem Barack Obama has 'Solved', every 'Need' Barack Obama has met, has been accomplished with a 'Toothy Smile' and his 'Ability' with words.

Why would any thinking person believe, that Barack Obama will approach the 'Problems' facing America and the world in any other manner?

Barack Obama is clearly not a 'critical Thinker', nor does he take 'Actions' based on facts, logic and reason.

Any human faced with emergency situations, will instinctively resort to what has worked for them in the past or the basics that has so far made them successful.

An example, when a boxer is hurt in the ring, they will immediately go back to the basics of boxing and depend on their many hours of repetitive training to 'Weather the Storm'.

Barack Obama has NO personal values that were forged in the 'Crucible' of a traditional or functional family, but rather methods to try and find a way or the means of survival in dysfunction.

America has become a Nation of 'Dysfunctional Families' and Barack Obama's struggles are appealing to the many millions of Americans who have suffered through or are in the same dysfunction.

The words 'Hope and Change', are really the 'Mein Kampf' or 'My Struggle' of Barack Obama to find a purpose and meaning, in and for his life.

Retired Geek ... well done!

Once again you have bested every Liberal on the thread - even the Dinks who have yet to arrive.

Why must Liberal-Democrats be so dense?

Ahmadinejad to Obama ... Nya nya nya ...
Ahmadinejad realizes that Barack Obama is in a lose, lose situation. If he talks tough, he invites the ire of the left. If he plays it down the middle, he invites the ire of both the left and the right and if he rebuffs Ahmadinejad's challenge, he ensures that his goal of appeasing the tyrannical theocracy in Iran will result in an unending threat of retaliation from Iran, a threat that an impotent Obama is powerless to answer.

It is both sad and maddening to observe our novice president grovel before the mouse that roared.

Just Wondering
Since John McCain sang his favorite song, "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran" we know what HE would do. I am curious though---what do you all think Sarah Palin would do re Iran if she were president now? Just wondering. Do you think she would use American military force in Iran?

Carlos
You ask why it is that socialists are so dense. I think a more basic question should be: why must they exist in the first place.

All Mother Nature’s creatures serve a purpose. Flies and maggots are revolting, but they clean up dead flesh and thus minimize our exposure to diseases. Every disgusting and ugly life form that crawls and slithers on the earth has a purpose except one: democrats. They contribute nothing to our eco-system. They are annoying and a hindrance to progress. They are leeches and parasites, hemorrhoids along for a free ride, totally useless, wastes of human flesh. In a sane country, killing them would not even be a misdemeanor.

We can hope that the end result of the total mess they will make of America - economic collapse, massive theft of our wealth, complete dishonor and surrender abroad, chaos and civil unrest at home, that most Americans will come to view liberals as threats to our survival and will agree to eliminate them like we would other pests like cockroaches.

Lilly
Lilly, our military would love to obey Sarah Palin and kill any country she wanted. This is because she’s young and hot, not like the bull men haters on the left, ugly, scarred beasts whose only accomplishments are those of the men they marry and that abuse them.

Use Correct Form
Doug:

Please do not use Obama's middle initial.

Just "B. O." will suffice.

Thanks.

Just wondering?

Why is the stoning to death of 13 year old girls -for the crime of holding a boy's hand- something Liberal-Democrats can take lightly?

Glad Dear Leader can find it in his heart to easily look away from such vile and devilish acts.

That's probably the main reason Conservatives look away when Dear Leader speaks...

There's just something about a Hollow man that turns us off, and Liberal-Democrats on.



JD's Handsome Son...

Kinda like Jimmy Carter II, eh?

Except this time the Iranians don't need Hostages to pull us around by the nose. They just whistle to their doggy and he comes running.

No, this sure isn't a sane country.

Another Answer for Carlos
Progressives have the ability to embrace two contradictory opinions on one issue. This allows them great flexibility when deciding which opinion better serves their needs at any particular point in time.

For example, suppose a white male, in a corporate environment safely inside the United States, says to a liberal women who had been working as a prostitute, servicing Elliot Spitzer or a Kennedy, “My, don’t you look nice today.” In order to extort large sums of money from the corporation, and possibly the male making the statement, she can seethe with righteous indignation, froth at the mouth, and sue the male and the company with the aid of taxpayer financed state and local agencies. She can claim that she was seriously offended, mentally scarred, and injured for life so much by this statement that she can never work again in any environment where men are allowed to work. Consequently, she will win an allotment for the rest of her life.

This same progressive thinking female can celebrate her newfound wealth by flying to the Middle East to see the world. She will gladly cover her hair on orders of male religious police and obey all the customs that limit her movements and activities. She may even witness a stoning of a 13-year-old girl and then come home to marvel at the world’s rich cultural diversity to her friends. She may even say that no culture is better than any other culture. She will do this because her second opinion on the issue of women’s rights allows her to praise anything that is not Anglo-American in order to be accepted by her fellow travelers.

It’s all very simple


iran
if you bomb,bomb,bomb,bomb bomb iran won't you be killing some of the freedom fighters too? i suppose we could invade but where do the troops come from? giles and his fishing buddies?

JD's Handsome Son...

Yes, yes! Your post reminds me of the Liberal-Progressive films of remote tribes.

They make life in the treetops of the Amazon look like a bowl of cherries? When in real life, the women and girls of these tribes would walk off with any White man who came along, just to get away from the steady rape and emotional abuse they endure daily from their men (owners).

They often show the 'diverse' trading of prepubescent girls for goats - without "batting an eye".

But of course, these Liberal film crews are trading spools of twine for a night with these 'diverse' children.

Liberal = Sicko


More on the Progressive Mind
There is, indeed, something perverse with the so called progressive mind. Because they believe themselves to be mentally superior to us simple minded folks, they find the need to make things more complex, perhaps as some sort of weird stimulation.

This explains why democrat women will get into cars or socialize with Kennedys. They get a thrill from not knowing if they’ll get home alive. The chances of being drowned while in any mode of conveyance with a Kennedy man - car across the bridge or a small aircraft off the Eastern coast, must excite liberal women.

This explains, in an odd way, liberal women’s desire to be raped and abused by leftist politicians who boldly announce their support for “women’s issues”.

Liberal men hate women which explains why they publicly degrade them like Bill Clinton did to Hillary. Such abuse propels liberal victims to hero status and qualifies them for high office.



Well said, Doug
"FYI to the Whitehouse: Ayatollahs, mullahs, and Ahmadinejads don’t discuss stuff. They shoot you in the face. You don’t believe me? Well, then just ask Neda, a beautiful freedom-loving 26-year-old Iranian protester who lives in Tehran. What’s that? The Tehran terror cops, the Basij, shot her? See, I told you so. Uncut Islam doesn’t debate; it deals death to dissenters and, it seems, Mohammed is cool with that. Jesus isn’t okay with it, but Mohammed is."

Your average delusional, leftist might use the usual dismissive that your hyperbole here is way overboard. If the truth be known, your descriptions don't go nearly far enough.

The round up of dissenters is already well underway and there's no telling how many have been tortured to death already. One thing will be a fact: the number will be well into the hundreds and probably thousands.

For the useful idiots, if it's done out of view and unwitnessed, it didn't happen. B. Hussein dismissed the whole thing as a 'robust debate'.

Islam is as much a religion as liberal fascism is i.e. an ideology employed to take power, rule and conquer. This is an autocratic totalitarian regime that uses employs terror to rule. That rule was challenged and it was displayed for all the world to see. This is something the ruling mullahs can not tolerate or allow to simmer.

Israel is dead right in it concern with this barbaric regime. If this is what they are capable of doing to their own people, is there any doubt as to what they are capable of doing on the world stage given the means?

This thread is off the hook tonight.
I need to dial into this one again tomorrow to read what else has been added. Kudos to Doug Giles, Carlos (my buddy in MI-sery) ad JD's Handsome Son.

(All the Muslim killing of women must have intimidated poor lilly/Lilith into near silence--thank God!)

i

Obama Treachery
Re: Lilly's hypothetical, IF Sarah Palin were President, and were it decided that the US perform an operation in Iran, I would race to get at the front of the line. She's got more brains, heart, wisdom, and huevos rancheros (eggs) under her little fingernail than bHo ever dreamed of possessing when he dreamed of his Marxist father. bHo is afraid to criticize the fascist mullahs because he himself is "remaking" this country into a utopia after his own (read: his father's) image. His own integrity issues, i.e., his citizenship status, his ideological training, his sludgy associations and affiliations, his inexperience and ineffectiveness -- not to mention his utterly upside-down bass-ackwards consistently wrongheaded nonsensical "solutions" -- his fraudulence and treachery, his clear-cut violations of several articles of the Constitution, etc., (somebody's got to make a list of all this and circulate it) ... Where is it all leading us? What's the hurry to shove all these radical, undeliberated 'changes' down our throats and up our @$$? Because he (bHo)has plans for the next 3 1/2 years! It will be too late when the adulating worshippers of the One realize what has happened to us.

I'm a child of the 60's. I was really into the counter-culture. Then I grew up, and kept my eyes and ears open, and learned. I have watched what a disintegration has taken place in our institutions, our national attitude, our sense of stewardship over our heritage. There's a growing number of Americans who think that our Constitution is just an obsolete piece of paper signed by a bunch of old guys. I think bHo has also been inhaling some of this poison gas.

This is all going to come to a head, and soon. Will you and I stand in the gap?

Il Duce has
done more to damage this country in 100 days than that feckless fool carter did in 4 years.

Carter wasn't anti-American though, he was simply naive whereas this clown has an agenda that bodes ill for us all.

It is unbelievable that the congress of village idiots passed, without reading again, the worst piece of legislation in our history.

A massive confiscation of wealth [ours] in a recession no less for no other reason than to "spread it around" as the commie in chief promised in order to secure his election and to perpetuate total democrat rule.

This is not what the framers intended by a long shot, the pendulum usually swings back after awhile. These crooks are attempting to get total control and stop any swing back and their using OUR money to do it and laughing at us.

If a way isn't found to impeach this closet muslim/communist there will be a lot of us dead before he's finished and our grandkids will be living in a 3rd world country.

Carter was
Carter was an idiot, and still is, when it came to Iran.The missing village idiot from kenya`s name says it all.Why expect anything different from one idiot following another.

Mousavi
The revolutionaries in Iran do not deserve to be beaten, axed, shot, thrown off pedestrian bridges. But Mousavi is just as much an anti-American, anti-Israel nutjob as Ahmadinajad.
(Ahmadinajad's reaction to Obama's mild little "Not nice" reaction shows very clearly how impressed he is by our President's restraint.) I don't think Obama should send troops to help the revolutionaries in Iran. The minute he does so, every left-liberal in America will be demanding that he send troops to help the "Palestinians."

Lilly
Your hypothetical about Sarah Palin is interesting on a number of levels.

For one thing, it reveals that you liberals always thought of Sarah as presidential material, even though she didn't run for that office. As VP on the GOP ticket, you libs were way more afraid of Sarah than the top of the ticket, McCain.

All the attacks against Sarah and her family were predicated on the idea that she could be president someday. Attacking a VP nominee with the hatred and vitriol that was leveled against this lovely woman is unheard of in politics, and it started about an hour after she was nominated, and continues to this moment.

Sarah IS presidential material - she scares the daylights out of liberals - and I for one would vote for her in a nano-second.

As to what she'd do regarding the Iran situation, I can pretty much guarantee you that she would not wait a week to offer support for the cause of freedom. She wouldn't act like a deer caught in the headlights, waiting for her teleprompter to give her the right words to say. Like the Gipper before her, she would be firm, decisive, and morally clear.

Any attack on Sarah or her family is simply a manifestation of the disdain that liberals have for an intelligent, classy, strong, conservative woman. They fear the excitement she generates among the base (without which McCain would've been obliterated last November), and they know she is a force to be reckoned with.


Will neo-cons admit they were wrong?
Now that Iran is jailing and killing all the protesters, will neo-cons admit that Obama did the correct thing by not being more vocal? After all, if Obama had encouraged the protesters, like the first president Bush did, more of them might have ended up slaughtered, just like happened with Bush.

Siegfried et al

You are really 'Good' at supposing and imagining.

FYI, George Bush is retired and no longer has any say in anything.

FYI, Barack Obama is in charge and he declared "I won" and has a say in everything.

History is something to examine in our leisure and the present and future is something we must deal with TODAY.

There is NO evidence that the Obama word response helps or hurts anyone.

Only supposers and fantasizers draw such conclusions as you have.

Obama - missing in action
Hey Obama how's that new "talk-em-to-death" approach working out? Oh, the rogue state Iran has rebuffed you. And, the little rogue, Ahmadinejad, blames America, just like you, Obama. Wow ... that's odd!?!? What does a world filled with rogue nations like Iran, and North Korea, think of America now? N. Korea's threatening to nuke Hawaii. Obama, is this the change we can believe in?

If nothing else President Bush would have used the opportunity to build so much world pressure against Iran that the pressure might have defocused and slowed Iran's nuclear ambitions for a period. Bush would have pushed that large gasoline exports to Iran be slowed to increase Iran's internal problems.

Of course, no matter what America said or didn't say, the rogue Ahmadinejad would still project America as the bad guy to justify his use of extreme force against those young people. So, Obama should have, at least, used the opportunity to strengthen the Iranian opposition by his statements. Now, the moment to strengthen and embolden the Iranian opposition has passed. Young Iranians did the heavy lifting and waited for America's moral support and political power to influence others on the world stage but ended up dying in vain. Iran is cracking down hard.

Obama and America look like losers on the world stage. Ahmadinejad looks like the winner because he has politically out maneuvered Obama and America.

The brainwashing never stops
A wonderful article calling it like it is... But you forget to mention the recent Nixon-Bush tapes the Abomination released to the public.. Personally I think Obama doctored them..He made these tapes public to make past Republican presidents look bad...I think if Obama's tapes were released he would not remain in the white house or USA for a day longer..This is the most evil man we have ever had in power..I think every remour I have heard about Obama is true ..His evil deceitful actions reveal it.. No birth certificate, Manchurian president, drug and homosexual activities, murder,etc.. Where there is smoke there is fire...
He is so cunnning like inviting muslims to the white house July 4th party or having the largest U.S. muslim gathering in Washington on July 4th.. He wants to erase the meaning of July 4th and cause us to associate it with muslims..Likewise with the scare force one incident..Was this to cause a mental association betweeh 9-11 and the presidency..He knows a picture is worth 1000 words so he arranges mental images that confuse and transpose the real meanings.

Seawolf
You wrote: "If a way isn't found to impeach this closet muslim/communist there will be a lot of us dead before he's finished and our grandkids will be living in a 3rd world country."

To which I say: Only if we lose, my friend. Only if we lose.

But we the People won't lose this battle, not with our freedoms and that of our descendants at stake.


Vigorous and beneficial chat
Yeah, you can't have one of those without "an armed citizenry," obviously. Or, well, you COULD, but there wouldn't be people getting murdered in the street while you're chatting, so what'd be the point?

You're right though Doug, let's get involved in another middle east conflict. Those have gone well for us so far. Nothing complicated about it... We'll be greeted as liberators, I'm sure.

Iranian mullahs and...
...Ahmadinejad have the man-child's number. By charging that America was interfering in Iran's internal affairs they knew Obama would say nothing and do nothing in support of the young Irans.

The bogus charge of American interference manipulated Obama to control his range of responses to the mullah's violence and injustice against their young people. They have no respect for Obama because their estimate of him suggests he will not take an unpopular stand and take criticism. So, the mullahs criticized Obama, before he made statements against them, thereby shutting Obama up. Making Obama "not do" what the mullah's criticized him for doing. Criticism of Obama confuses him, gives him cognitive dissonance. To resolve the cognitive dissonance Obama's behavior is opened to manipulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Obama, a man-child, is not fully formed, and accustomed to puppet masters. The mullah's and any leader of a rogue state now know how to make Obama their puppet-in-chief.

Times change
"There is NO evidence that the Obama word response helps or hurts anyone."

A week ago the neo-cons like McCain were saying that Obama could bring down the Iranian government just by talking louder and criticizing it.

Why the big deal about criticizing Obama if his words don't matter anyway?

Obama's words don't matter because...
...Obama has no credibility. For words to carry any weight the person saying the words must be taken serious. Who takes Obama serious? Obama missed the opportunity to cement his credibility thereby making his words have power. Obama's words have no power to affect anything on the world stage. Obama's diplomats have no credibility because they represent Obama. Obama is an empty suit.

So, the real debate over Obama's actions and statements is about the character of Obama. When the estimate of a leader's character comes up short then the "words" of that leader have no power, no ability to affect anything.

The post was:

"There is NO evidence that the Obama word response helps or hurts anyone."

This is because Obama's words have no credibility.

"A week ago the neo-cons like McCain were saying that Obama could bring down the Iranian government just by talking louder and criticizing it."

If Obama's words had power what McCain suggested could have occurred.

"Why the big deal about criticizing Obama if his words don't matter anyway?"

Obama is the President of the most powerful nation in the world but Obama's words have less credibility than Ahmadinejad.



How?
"If Obama's words had power what McCain suggested could have occurred."

Only God's words have that much power. What you are suggesting is totally ridiculous, an absolute joke.

Do you think if the government of Iran told us who should win the disputed senate election in Minnesota, that we would do it?

An example, a test...
...a position statement then a question.

The main standard of currency among people in society is our "word."

Example: You have to choose between two places to purchase gasoline.

At one station, in the past, many vehicles after buying gas stall, needing to have their gas tanks pumped due to water in the fuel system.

At another station, there are no fuel related issues of water in the fuel.

Both station owners give their word they have not watered down their fuel.

Not having the availability of God's word, whose human word would you accept and whose word would you reject among the two gas station owners?

Common-sense suggests that human words have meaning because words are how we in society negotiate. We have to have faith in the words of others otherwise if words have no meaning how can we be sure of anything? Is this pound of beef I am purchasing really a true pound?

Christian ethics suggest we should try to be true to our words. That our "word and deed" match. The alternative is to descend into a nation of lairs where words have no meaning.

Liberal relativistic ethics suggests that words have no stable standard from one situation to the next. A lie for me is not a lie for you because what constitutions a "lie" that the both of us can agree. What is a lie is relative to each man’s beliefs.

Clinton, after learning liberal situational ethics, said it best, "It all depends on what the meaning of 'is' is. As she performed oral sex on me, she said we had sex, I say only she had sex, not me."

Do you feel our human "words" should have meaning to affect the material world?

roy @11:00PM & twomay @11:07AM
I want to thank you for perfect examples of liberal logic. You are correct, it is better that we let the people of Iran be clubbed, shot and tortured into submission rather than risk harming innocents in any sort of military intervention. Of course I would request that you tell me exactly who called for the bombing of Iran. I reread the column and the closest Giles comes to mentioning military intervention in Iran is when he writes:

“I, for one, believe that we should meddle in such slave states. The “we” I believe that should intervene is the old America spelled with a “c” and not the new Amerika spelled with a “k”.”

Now he does call for meddling and intervention but does not say anything about bombing or violence of any sort.

Now if like lilly you are referencing something liberal lite John McCain said/sang over a year ago please do try to update your references. Making hay out of something said long before the current crisis is standard liberal BS, sleight of hand misdirection (don’t look at what’s happening now; look at what a Republican said/sang a year ago).

The only reason many of us voted for McCain was that we thought he would do less damage than Obama, not because we liked his politics. It appears that we were right. After all do you think that if a combat veteran who called for bombing Iran were sitting in the White House that the mullahs would be pulling this nonsense?

Doug Giles on Manhood
Apparently lacking any feasible or constructive policy recommendations Doug wants President to sound tough. Not invade. Sanctions, well been there. Work with world community--nahhh they're either thugs or sissies. Talk tough, sound tough, lay down moral absolutes and then feel good. Well, manly. Well, behind the keyboard tough is easy. As Ike knew in Hungary and thoughtful people know today--in some cases there is little we can do. That's right, we don't run the world, nor can or should we.

Seigfried IL.
Since they now call Minnesota "MINNESOTASTAN", with all the muslim appeasement going on there, I am actually surprised the Mullahs did NOT weigh in with an opinion. They are ALL computer savvy you know.

The rest of your myriad posts indicate that you miss the point as usual.

Obama had the POWER to use words to surge the protests, to inspire and import courage to the protesters.

Had he done so early on perhaps the Army would have sided with the people.Perhaps the council would have split with the mullahs.

Maybe the Basiji would have joined the people instead of brutalizing them.We will never know.
He dithered. His voice of American support was a mere whisper, hardly heard.

He did not even disinvite the Iranians to the Embassy barbecue. Hillary did that on Friday.A full two weeks after the demonstrations first started.

Kumbiyah is a great song. Ahmedinijad and his cronies will sing along. When the song is over...,they will still kill you.

doug giles on manhood reply
Yes, Ike's response to Hungary worked really, really well for the Hungarians and we are very, very proud of his actions....not. Just as no decision is a decision, no action is an action. Our lack of strong, verbal revulsion coordinated with other democracies can make a difference to the outcome. We just look weak or, as I believe, complicit.

Tough talk.
"The United States and the international community have been appalled and outraged by the threats, beating and imprisonments of the last few days,"

No, talk like really tough. Folks, read up on Iranian-US relations. We don't have much legitimacy in Iran and ramping up the rhetoric may very well delegitimize those we want to support.

A poster suggested that President Eisenhower should have invaded Hungary in 1956. With what army--the troops in Europe. What about the nuclear weapons the Soviets might have used. It may be time to read some history for some Townhallers.


A question
Not surprisingly, Giles reports that he has not heard moderate Muslims condemn the Iranian mullahs. How many Muslims does Giles know? I suspect Giles did some cyber investigative reporting (searched the web a bit) and didn't find the condemnations his righteousness demands.

I know several Muslims who routinely criticize conservative Muslims for their oppressive politics.

How many Doug--how many Muslims do you know and talk to about world affairs, politics, and religion? I'm guessing, just like Huffington Post, writers for the most part spew hot air after traveling the world through their computer screens. I think I might look to other sources for my foreign policy information.

annfan
Good answer to lilly on the prospect of a Sarah Palin response to the Iranian situation. Don't count on her answering you though. She likes to create a strawman, throw out a few insults about the stupidity of TH posters and run away. Most of her stuff is just a collection of fairy tails that she apparently never got to tell her children when they were growing up, so she bores us with them instead.
Again, good thoughtful post explaining how the libs tremble at the thought of Sarah Palin at the top of the heap in D.C.

DCR @1:51PM
If the moderate Muslims were to condemn the actions taken by the mullahs in Iran I am fairly certain that it would make the network news and be front page on the NYT. It would support the argument made by many liberal journalists that Islam is a religion of peace that has been hijacked by radicals. The sad fact is that one does not see this happening; at least it hasn't yet.

I Googled the terms "moderate," "Muslim" and "Iran" and got nothing. If you can direct me to a legit news site that shows such condemnation I would be interested to see it.

Thank you.

arby the horse's rear end
why would you want to see flap ears debate anyone.

With his best pal, the teleprompter flap ears becomes a stuttering monkey.

He needs the teleprompter to read the words his handlers put in to his mouth.

And unlike iwannajihad who fully believes in every aspect of the islamic revolution and their right to export terrorism where ever they choose, flap ears doesn't believe in democracy.

So unless you wish to see flap ears the fraud totally humiliate himself in front of the whole world you need to be very careful of what you wish for.

But such a debate will never happen. Flap ears can only excel in front of the azzkissing msm who will never ask any tough questions

But anyone who actually expects flap ears to man up will have a long wait. Flap ears has yet to show he can act like a man

And anyone who believes flap ears would ever defend america and it's committment to freedom around the world will remain disappointed

Flap ears has shown he prefers he prefers the company of and the friendship of dictators around the world. And in terms of iran he quickly sided with the killing mullahs and not with it's citizens protesting voter fraud

Debate?
Doug,
BHO MUST be talking about Leftist Dems, like himself, versus "moderate" Dems - the only debate that would make sense for him.
Crazy in Middle America

13 Bravo
I'd say there's a good number of moderate rights loving Muslims in Iran protesting right now. The Muslims I know fairly well---eight if I count---are 'moderates.'

Now, am I claiming Islam is a "religion of peace"? No more than President Bush claimed peace loving Jesus as his savior and engage in a war of choice killing tens of thousands Iraqi non-combatants and thousands of brave soldiers. Unfortunately the ability of humans to embrace mythologies that seem to endorse mass killing, well, that appears to be common to our species.

Obama
said: 'should politics turn ugly, i will side with the muslims'.

Well, i think chopping off people's heads,stoneing them to death and shooting them in the back of their heads is pretty damn ugly, so Barry Oboy, Ahmadinejad welcomes you & Hugo Chavez is proud of you.

13 bravo
just curious as to what obama could have done. even john bolton, hardly a left winger, said it would have been irresponsible for obama to encourage revolt and then have to watch the protesters die in the streets.

If the Iranian youth were...
...willing to protest and die for their freedom the least Obama could have done was state his solidarity with their aims. As a conservative I don't need to cite a liberal before I can have a position.

If the Iranian young were dying in the streets for the right to have fair elections, what is there to consider. America will never have improved relations with the current Iranian government because Obama has given Iranian dictators all the cards in the deck. Obama, by his own choice, has no leverage with those dictators. Therefore, Obama should see he is free to do what is in America's best interest, which, also, aligns with the best interest of the Iranian people.

The course Obama took was in the best interest of the Iranian dictators. Iran will develop a nuke and threaten Israel will Obama stop them?

Iranian dictators have wounded, maimed and murdered hundreds, if not thousands, of young American troops in Iraq to stop the prospect of a democratic Iraq free of dictators. The young in Iran want the same thing based on what they see developing in Iraq.

Iran dictators don't want them to have this right. Obama didn't have the moral courage to make a statement of support.

To suggest Obama was right to say nothing, well, young Iranians died hoping Obama would! Which is more cowardly and shameful? Dictators feed on weakness. In the end weakness with dictators causes more to die in the streets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbVfs8N9-I4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LgndPUuS2E


DCR @5:00PM
I have only your word about your moderate Muslim friends, but will allow that your friends do indeed exist. My point is that: why are there no outspoken individuals or organizations of moderate Muslims taking a public stand against Islamic terrorists or the Iranian government? Whether or not those who protest in Iran, are moderates is up for debate.

I note that you use the standard liberal routine of bringing Bush in for a bashing. Let’s take a look at the differences between Bush’s Iraq War wherein you claim that “tens of thousands” of innocents were slain and the activities of Hamas, Al Qaeda, and Hezbollah. First off let me state that I opposed the war from the beginning. You have only my word on that but it is true. I felt that we could have removed Saddam without invading.

I would like to ask if you are blaming U.S. forces for those deaths? I can assure you that U.S. military personnel go out of their way to avoid civilian casualties, even to the point of endangering themselves. I would contend that the majority of non-combatant deaths were caused by Islamic terrorists. The U.S. military never targets civilians if at all avoidable; terrorists’ targets are almost always innocent people.

Please try to refrain from attacking Christianity in the future. I am an agnostic and am able to show them respect. If your next post will question my disregard for respecting Islam I will state that no other religion has adherents that regularly murder people for the crime of not worshiping the same god.

roy @6:59PM
What could Obama have done? He could have condemned the brutal tactics of the Iranian government. He could have made a statement that there should be a new election with international monitors. He could have acted like the leader of the free world. What happened? Was his teleprompter on vacation?

When did Bolton make that statement? I Googled John Bolton, Iran and Obama and the most recent hit I got was dated February where he said that Obama was naïve when it came to Iran. Please post a link of tell me what newspaper, T.V. news program or otherwise where I can read or listen to this statement for myself.

roy @6:59PM (again)
Second time trying to post this. Apologies if it shows up twice.
****************************************

What could Obama have done? He could have condemned the brutal tactics of the Iranian government. He could have made a statement that there should be a new election with international monitors. He could have acted like the leader of the free world. What happened? Was his teleprompter on vacation?

When did Bolton make that statement? I Googled John Bolton, Iran and Obama and the most recent hit I got was dated February where he said that Obama was naïve when it came to Iran. Please post a link of tell me what newspaper, T.V. news program or otherwise where I can read or listen to this statement for myself.

Honduras
Obama was pretty quick to denounce the decision of the Honduran congress to oust their president, compared to his lackluster support of Iranian patriots.

This couldn't be because Zelaya is a socialist, could it?

Chest
Imagine Obama in a game of chest. By Obama's own words he sees himself as an islamic, Iranian "pawn."

Obama seems to have crossed over, playing contrary to his side. All of his chest moves implement the strategy of his "so-called" opponent.

The question is which side of the chest board does Obama see as his opponent?

"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction," says Obama.

http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2008/02/i-will-st and-wi.html

13 Bravo
Point taken on lack of outspoken Muslims condemning Islamic violence and general oppressive sexist nuttiness. I am an atheistic leaning agnostic who agrees on essentials with Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Bill Maher etc. I mean no disrespect, but I honestly believe that religion is mythology---humanity made it up to alleviate fear of death and provide answers for the unanswerable. No disrespect intended. It is easy to criticize Islam today---but historically speaking Christianity is capable of justifying imperialism, mass murder, torture etc---it's just that the Enlightenment and Reformation have tempered what historically has been a pretty nasty and oppressive religion---some perspective is needed.

On another point, I greatly admire the job the US military did in Iraq--for a war it was done about as well as it could be done. As in all modern war, civilians die, die often. I'm not impugning our troops, they did the best one could expect.

Perhaps bringing in Bush and Christianity was a stretch, but sometimes the hypocrisy and self-righteousness of TH is too much.


Joel, you're absolutely right.
Several years ago when the Iraqis were putting together their "democracy", I read that their government would be based on Islam. I told co-workers the next day, "Democracy in Iraq will not last. A democracy can only work if it's based on Judeo-Christian principles."

13-Bravo, this fellow Hoosier is hoping you will accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. I'm sure you will not want to be left on earth to go through the tribulation period with followers of other religions and followers of progressives when our Lord takes us up with Him. It won't be pretty then.

About the Bolton statement....he has been on many TV talk shows throughout the Iranian uprising, and he hesitated at first to say the protests would be a game-changer. However, after nearly a week, he stated that he did believe that there was more to the protests than a fraudulent election. Hope this helps.

DCR and 13-Bravo,........
Christianity is not made up of perfect people. People "go to church" and "pray" and "read the Bible" in order to become better, or as the bumper sticker says.....to become perfect. However, no one on this earth is perfect or has hope to become perfect except through the sacrifice of God of his Son, Jesus, who died for our sins. God's grace and His mercy are the only way we can live from day to day with ourselves and our past sins. We all have sinned. Jesus is the only way we can live each day because he shed His blood to sanctify us. The triumph of the Cross gives Christians peace that surpasses all understanding.

As we Christians strive to live up to the principles and example of Jesus, would you consider reading the New Testament?....Matthew through Revelation? And, before you begin reading, ask (God) for understanding of what you will be reading. If you have an edition that prints Jesus' words in red, maybe you'll just read those passages to start with.

BTW, Christians are human beings.....God knew we would fail at times. That's why He made the sacrifice of His Son because He loves us so much and wants to fellowship with us. Make no mistake.......He hears every prayer.

Also, you may want to read the books of Daniel and Ezekiel and the short books of the Bible following.

And........13-Bravo, you are right. 90% or more of the civilian deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan are the result of terrorist perpetrators with homicide bombers, car bombs, and other devices.

The last thing I want
is for our president to be like you. Thank
heavens, he isn't.

Idiots:
I love the beef vats mongling around and calling suicide bombers "Homicide Bombers"!
What are you stupid? Wait, don't answer that, of course you are dumb, otherwise you would not play yourself like that, hahahahaha......

plastic president
Obama won't do anything, he's scared of his own shadow...BOO!

Obama and Islam Fantasies
"Ah . . . Islam in action. How peaceful. What an awesome religion."

Yep, Islam is a religion of peace, right, Barack? Or, maybe, just maybe, it's a religion of submission and if you don't submit you get your head bashed in.

Maybe the Iranian revolt will be a wake-up call for the Obama cultists--and Obama himself. Don't hold your breath: Once you've drunk the Kool-Ade you can't come back.

Islam is an evil religion and should be stamped out.

Onward Christian Soldiers!


Islam
Islam is a political system FIRST and a religion 2nd.

DCR @11:02PM 6/28/09
While Christianity does indeed have its own history of violence and has been used to justify crimes against humanity these deeds were generally done by individuals using Christianity for their own ends. But throughout history one can frequently find good Christians (pastors and laymen) who spoke out against the deeds; often at great peril. The Reformation is the best example of Christians rebelling against the Church. Perhaps one day Islam will experience a Reformation of their own and reject the violent members of their religion.

The Islamic terrorists we deal with today are sanctioned by Ayatollahs, Imams and Mullahs. This is different from the condemnation one hears from the Christian pulpit when a crazy Christian murdered Dr. Tiller. One wonders if a Caliph were to be anointed would he oppose or support terrorism as a weapon.

One is hard put to find decent examples of Christianity being used to excuse mass murder or examples of forced conversion of non-Christians within the last century. There were limited attempts to force conversion of American Indians in the early 20th century by individuals that do not appear to have been sanctioned by any religious authority. Possibly there were similar occurrences elsewhere but were they connected to any official church?

Hypocrisy is rampant on many (I’d be willing to bet all) political sites. As mentioned, I have my own problems with the Bush Administration (illegal immigration, Iraq and TARP to name only 3) but I give them credit for standing up to the terrorists and preventing another massive attack on the U.S. following 9/11. Liberal hypocrites will not even give credit for that.

Pamela
I thank you for your concern over my immortal soul. If only it were so easy as to simply decide to accept Jesus. Perhaps it is the experiences of my life, the absolute evil that I have seen and confronted; or possibly there is something missing inside me. I do not know. I only know that I lack any sort of faith. I find myself only able to believe in what I can detect with my physical senses and can logically explain.

As you so aptly point out, humans are imperfect. They are only human. I have read parts of the Bible, as well as parts of the Qur’an and some texts from other religions. I find myself unable to understand any of them to any real degree. I only wish that I could believe; it must be a comfort at times like these.

Concerning Bolton; did he say that:

“it would have been irresponsible for obama (sic) to encourage revolt and then have to watch the protesters die in the streets”

as claimed by roy? I am calling on roy or any other liberal to give me guidance to Bolton making any such statement.

John @2:38AM 6/29/09
Suicide bombers murder people. Murdering people is also called homocide. Either term applies.

Since you object to such semantics can I assume that you also object to the term "man caused disasters" and other PC BS terminolgy that have come from the Obama White House or are you just another troll hypocrite? Well which is it? Are you the idiot here or do you object to all semantics?

tammy the turd
but what wqe on the right hate about you and your messiah and savior, flap ears the clown, is that both of you hate america and are actively working to destroy this country.

Flap ears wants a socialist nirvana with himself as dictator and loser idiots like you cheer him on.

No, Wonder That

The Telegraph called him a COWARD over a week ago and FT labled him a MOUSE.

13-Bravo
I understand why you would like to nail down the statement referred to by roy, as Bolton is not shy about taking hard lines with enemies.

This link is the closest I have found to what Roy said, but in this link, Bolton did not make the statement to which you are referring:

http://www.therightscoop.com/video-john-bolton-on-iran-and- reagan-on-poland-all-from-hannity-on-june-22-2009/

I have gone through four pages of Google, listening to videos and podcasts, reading op-eds, etc., and I cannot find such a statement.

Pamela
Thanks for looking. I thought that perhaps I was not looking in the right place. Thanks also for the link. You are correct, Bolton merely says that the U.S. is in a poor position to aid the protesters and that we need to be prudent. A big difference from roy's claim that Bolton was supporting Obama's lukewarm response.

Doug Giles
Why don't you go to Iran and play shoot-em-up.
We won't miss you.
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