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Saturday, December 22, 2007
Doug Giles :: Townhall.com Columnist
10 Reasons Why Pastors Avoid the Culture War
by Doug Giles
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As far as I’m concerned, a silent or waffling pastor in today’s paranormal climate is about as necessary as Rosie O’Donnell is to CPAC. I don’t care how much the minister likes kitty cats, candy canes, and if he cries at Celine Dion concerts. Look, voiceless vicar, if you’re not currently in the middle of this crucial cultural squabble, pointing out what’s putrid and cheering on what’s proper, then you’re Dr. Evil in my book.

Given that this is an upcoming election year and that the culture-dividing issues are more obvious than Joan Rivers’ last lip implants, it is mind-boggling to me that many ministers are mute or side with parties, policies and principles that are antithetical to the Christian worldview. I don’t know if you got this memo in seminary but pastors are not only supposed to salvage souls but also build good society.

In some kind of ascending order, it seems to me there are 10 reasons why pastors and priests avoid political and intense cultural issues and thus aid and abet evil:

1. Fear of man. If you purport to be a man of God then your regard for God and His opinion must trump the trepidation of the creature God created from spit and mud. Come on, man of God, don’t fear the crowd . . . we’re ants with cell phones who’ll shoot Botox into our foreheads. We’re weird and fickle weather vanes of what’s en vogue. You’ve got to lead us. Therefore, go to the mountain . . . get a fresh dose of holy terror and move into Moses mode and command us to be and do what is holy, just and good. The grinning, mild, subtle Oprah approach doesn’t seem to be stemming the current flood of filth.

2. Ignorance. Most people are not bold in areas in which they are ignorant . . . always excepting Britney Spears, of course. I know keeping up with all the pressing political issues is maddening, but that’s life, brother, and if you want to be a voice in society and not just an echo, you have got to be in the know. Staying briefed, running each political issue through the gauntlet of Scripture and determining God’s mind on a certain subject are par for the course for the hardy world changer.

3. Division. Y’know, I hate the current non-essential divisions in the church as much as the next acerbic Christian columnist. Squabbling over the color of the carpet, who’ll play the organ next Sunday or who is the Beast of Revelation, is stupidity squared. Hey, divisive Christian rebel without a clue—get a life, por favor! Or become a Satanist and go screw up their church. Do something other than make mountains out of your little molehills. That being said, there’s a time and place for a biblical throw-down and an ecclesiastical split from political policies and parties.

For a minister to seek unity with secularists when they are trashing and rewriting Scripture with impunity is to side with vice and to allow darkness to succeed. On these kinds of issues, the minister cannot group hug or sing a James Blunt song to the secularist or the apostate Christian.

4. Last Days madness. Many ministers do not get involved in political issues because they believe that “it simply doesn’t matter” since “the end has come,” and Jehovah is about to run the credits on this failed earth flick. These defeatists believe that any change in the jet stream, war, earthquakes, a warming globe, the success of a corrupt politician—or even a new Shakira video—are “proof” that God is getting really, really ticked off and that His only recourse is to have Christ physically return and kick some major butt.

They see the church and themselves as impotent and having no real ability to change things culturally with any long range ramifications. Thus, any stab at a better tomorrow is simply an exercise in futility for this rapture crew. Attempting to right culture is, in their eyes, equivalent to polishing brass on a sinking ship; therefore, they are content to simply pass out tracts, tramp from Christian rock concert to Christian rock concert, eat fatty foods and stare at Christian TV.

5. Sloth. Classically defined, sloth is lethargy stemming from a sense of hopelessness. Viewing our nation and the world as an irreparable disaster, where our exhortations, prayers, votes and labors will not produce any temporal fruit, leaves one with all the fervor of a normal guy who’s forced to French kiss his sister.

If you’re wondering why your flock is so apathetic, Pastor Eeyore, ask yourself if you have stolen the earthly hope that their valiant efforts can actually prevail in time and not just in eternity. If you constantly pump the doom and gloom message, if you teach them that evil will ultimately triumph on our terra firma, if you spew messages that consciously or unconsciously convey “big devil” and “little God,” then you have effectively zapped what’s left of your parishioners’ passion.

6. They don’t want to lose their tax exempt status. Many pastors, priests and parishioners have been cowed into inactivity by the threatened loss of their tax exempt status if they say anything remotely political. This can make pastors who don’t, or won’t, get good legal advice about as politically active as Howard Hughes was during the flu season.

The church may, among other things, register their members to vote, pass out voter guides, invite all candidates in a race to speak (even if only one of them shows up) and speak directly about specific issues.

Off the clock, in his personal capacity, the pastor or priest can endorse and support (or oppose) whomever or whatever he wishes—like any other citizen. There are no limitations to the individual; the ones that do exist under the 501(c)(3) statute are only for the church entity and/or the pastor in his official capacity, not for the pastor or the members who make up the church.

7. They bathe in paltry pietism. Pastors avoid politics because such concerns are “unspiritual,” and their focus is on the “spirit world.” Yes, to such imbalanced ministers, political affairs are seen as “temporal and carnal,” and since they trade in the “eternal and spiritual,” such “worldly” issues get nada.

This bunch is primarily into heavenly emotions and personal Bible study, and they stay safely tucked away from society and its complicated issues. How sweet. They forget that they are commanded to be seriously engaged with our culture or fall into the worthless category Christ warned them of (Mt. 5.13). Snap.

8. They have bought into the Taliban comparison. Pastors have muffled their political/cultural voices because they fear being lumped in with Islam by the politically correct thought police. The correlation made between Christians’ non-violent attempts at policy persuasion and the Taliban’s kill-you-in-your-sleep campaigns is nothing more than pure, uncut crapola.

Ministers, please blow off the tongue-wagging blowhards who try to intimidate you into silence by making quantum, ludicrous, scat-laden and analogous leaps in equating the implementation of a gracious, biblical worldview with the Islamo-fascists’ cross-eyed wet dream.

9. They can’t say “no” to minutiae. Some ministers can’t get involved in studying or speaking out regarding pressing issues simply because of the ten tons of junk they are forced to field within their congregations. Spending time wet nursing 30-year-olds without a life and being bogged down in committee meetings over which shade of pink paint should be used for the women’s ministerial wing of their church, ministers are lucky if they get to study the Bible nowadays—much less anything else.

This is the fault of both the ministers with their messiah complexes and the congregants with their me-monkey syndromes, and they must all have their foreheads thumped if the church is going to tackle cultural issues.

10. They likey the money. The creepy thing about a lot of ministers is their unwillingness to give political or cultural offense when offense is needed, simply because taking a biblical stand on a political issue might cost them their mega-church, which means their seven homes, their Bentley and their private jet. Oh well, what do you expect? Christ had His Judas, and evangelicalism has its money loving hookers.

If the ministers within the good old US of A would crucify their fear of man, get solidly briefed regarding the chief political issues, not sweat necessary division, not get caught up in last days madness, maintain their hope for tomorrow, understand their liberties under God and our Constitution, not become so heavenly minded that they’re no earthly good, focus on the majors and blow off bowing to cash instead of convictions, then maybe . . . just maybe . . . we will see their righteous influence cause our nation to take the needed sharp turn away from the secularist progressives’ speedily approaching putrid pit.

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About The Author
Doug Giles’ new book “If You're Going Through Hell, Keep Going!" is now available. Ann Coulter says "Doug Giles is a substantive and funny tour de force for traditional values.” Doug’s talk show and video blog can be seen and heard at www.ClashRadio.com.
 
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Re Item # 6
Re Item # 6: In the early days of the Iraq war a Unitarian minister spoke out against the war. Shortly thereafter he received a letter announcing that his church would lose its tax-exempt status because he had made a political speech from the pulpit. Other churches taking an anti-war stance were audited and threatened with loss of tax exemption, for the same reason.

You recommend that ministers be political activists. Will they not be audited and threatened? Or does that happen only when the minister speaks out against the Bush administration?

I think Cameron Diaz is stupider
than Britany Spears, especially considering she is more sober. She is a better actress, however.

lilly - it is only fair that Unitarians
suffer the same fate that the conservative pastors do.

In fact, for many years, the liberal black pastors like Jackson and Sharpton speak out on political issues without losing their tax exempt status, while conservatives like Dobson and MacArthur were silenced between 15 and 20 years ago.

Dr. Dobson has recently started speaking out again, but each time he does so, he says over and over that he is speaking for himself as an individual, and not for his non-profit organization, which is a favorite target of the Left.

I think there should be NO restrictions on public discourse, and I also think that churches, whether liberal or conservative, should be able to speak out on political issues that relate to their churches doctrine.

Unitarians are anti-war, so they should be allowed to say so, but only if Baptists can be allowed to say they are for the war.

Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.

Item #6
6. They don’t want to lose their tax exempt status. Many pastors, priests and parishioners have been cowed into inactivity by the threatened loss of their tax exempt status if they say anything remotely political.
-----

Do not know where the backbone of some of the pastors lilly knows, but here is a real one.


FAITH UNDER FIRE
IRS to church: Shut up. Church to IRS: No way
Pastor under investigation says he 'will not stop preaching God's word'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: June 2, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Bob Unruh
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com


A Christian church in Kansas has told the Internal Revenue Service that it will not stop teaching and preaching God's Word, "even if it relates to contemporary issues in the world," after the federal agency demanded answers to 31 questions about its beliefs and warned about "political" activity.

Spirit One Christian Center Pastor Mark Holick told WND that the IRS, perhaps, should brush up on the freedoms assured U.S. citizens regarding religion and speech before making such demands in the future.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55 979

I think this is right at #1
1. Fear of man. If you purport to be a man of God then your regard for God and His opinion must trump the trepidation of the creature God created from spit and mud.
-------

Christianity would never have made it out of the 1st Century with these spineless "men of God" today.

They bow and scrape to the God hating bigots of the aclu and even give up public prayer when there is no law against it.

No Federal Judge has any law to judge on the freedom of religion, or speech.

Prayer is speech
The reprobates judges protect all other speech, even the most vile.
Find rights not listed and then say rights listed are illegal.
They are insane
Quit bowing to these bigots.







talent scout- the IRS has too much power
to punish the citizens of the United States without due process of law.

The other group that has the same kind of totalitarian is Child Protective Services.

The thugs in these two groups make the Patriot Act look like Romper Room.

lilly - Re Item # 6

"Re Item # 6: In the early days of the Iraq war a Unitarian minister spoke out against the war. Shortly thereafter he received a letter announcing that his church would lose its tax-exempt status because he had made a political speech from the pulpit. ...

"You recommend that ministers be political activists. Will they not be audited and threatened? Or does that happen only when the minister speaks out against the Bush administration?"



Have I missed something? Didn't Hillary Clinton get to stand up in a 'black' church and address the congregation on her political views a short while back? Nothing was said to the 'black' church for permitting politics from their pulpit and nothing was said to Hillary Clinton for preaching politics.

Do you see an different standard being applied at times? Where was the separation of church and state that you Liberals scream about?

Oh, perhaps it's this separation does not apply to you but only to your opponents like us.

Care to respond on this hypocrisy?

I believe
Mr Gile's article seems to omit the most important reason for churches not "getting involved" in the culture wars, though I suppose that #7 could be reasonably supposed to include it.

The Church is to preach Christ and Him crucified and risen again. THAT is her mission as given in Matthew 28. It is up to the members individually to be "salt and light"; the congregation will reflect what her members deem important, and the pastor's preaching calls to repentance and offers Christ's forgiveness to all who have neglected to "love his neighbor" in whatever way he should have. Which is all of us! :)

The Luthern Church-Missouri Synod does take a public stand on issues of moral concern such as abortion and the homosexual lifestyle and other things that a Christian must be informed about in order to be salt and light; but so far as I know our pastors do not preach political activism from their pulpits on any issue. In 25 years of being a conservative Lutheran I've never heard a pastor encourage his flock to vote Republican, boycott businesses, protest at abortion mills or any such. It just is not done, at least in our congregation.

Some of our more politically/culturally active folks do give handouts on the hot topics of the day, though, and those can be followed up on or not according to each individual's wishes.

Doug Giles

Personally, I think that the pastors around the country see the ministry as a goose laying golden eggs for THEM (#10). Why should they upset a good thing and lose their power and riches?

But then, I am jaded when it comes to organized religion. I would rather see a minister that followed the example set by Paul who supplied for himself and his fellow ministers by the work done by his own hands. He did not take anything from the people he preached and ministered to. What a shock!

Yes indeed
Mountain Rose writes: 11:32 PM
talent scout- the IRS has too much power
to punish the citizens of the United States without due process of law.

The other group that has the same kind of totalitarian is Child Protective Services.

The thugs in these two groups make the Patriot Act look like Romper Room.
----

They are abusive and thugs.

They hold power for sure, but it is not power with God, but of lies. (Tax system is based in lies)

Apostle Paul faced a greater power than the IRS when he said this.

Ephesians 6:12 -
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Plus, he was not afraid of any man.
He witnessed to Kings and Emperors
Suffered willingly

Robert

Of course it is different. The minister does not have free speech... the politician does. Do I have that correct?

Or the designated use of a church as a house of worship can be dropped for a politician but not for a minister ... especially if the pol is Democrat... named Hillary? Is that correct?

Birdman II - People see the offering
plate at a church and somehow imagine all that money goes to the pastor.

A large church is expensive to run.

There are many programs, classes and ministries, and the larger the congregation, the larger the staff must be to minister to the "flock."

Besides this, there are many charities and outreach programs that a large church will commit to, as well as missionaries to support and Sunday School classes to run.

I will say that there are greedy, unscrupulous pastors who abscond with funds, but they are the exception rather than the rule. The Christian Body hates such charlitains, because they give us a bad name.

Robert

"A church can allow anyone to speak on an "occasional" basis on any topic and not violate its IRS standing. The instant however that the "chief pulpit minister" starts expressing a political viewpoint from the pulpit then it has moved from a religious to a political institution."


And where, exactly, in the constitution and the Bill of Rights does it say this?

Robert- What you just explained
about how a minister who talks politics from the pulpit makes the church move to a political institution explains why the Unitarian Minister was threatened with losing the tax exempt status of his church.

Unitarian "Churches" are really just political social clubs, and they have been thus since the mid Twentith Century.

Because the sue-happy anti-Christians tend to leave other Lefties alone, the Unitarian church has not been challanged like the conservative Evangelical churches, who have been bullied into silence.

I think it is time to leave all pastors alone and let them preach whatever they want. If the free practice of their religion includes speaking out politically, then the government is forbidden to make any laws that restrict it.

This should apply to liberal and conservative churches alike.

Rose

I am well aware that on average 85% of all collections received by an entity called 'church' is kept by that entity within itself for itself. The remaining 15% goes forward for missions.

The first buildings used by the true church in the 1st century were homes of fellow worshippers. The upkeep of the home was done at the expense of the home owner. The idea of building a House of God specifically called a 'church' did not happen for a couple of hundred years. It became a substitute for the Jewish Temple right down to an altar. A special class of people called priests performed the functions of the Jewish priests of old in a building remeniscent of the old temple.

2 things become apparent. 1) The building is not the house of God if God is within our hearts; and so the building is un-necessary. 2) The concept of an over-priest violates the teachings of Paul, Peter, John, and James (not to mention Jesus, Himself; and so the priest is un-necessary.

Neither the build you call a church nor the priest you place between you and Jesus needs to be supported by donations. All the moneys colloected can go directly to meeting the needs of others.

Why should a priest in todays institutional church rock the boat that supports him the style desires?

All who take money preaching the Gospel are charlatans and no better than Simon the Sorceror (IMO).

Robert

I can't believe that I actually agree with something you said... "we pull the tax exempt status."

pulling the tax exempt
would that go for the churches that have gore and clinton preaching to the congregation during the campaign?

I'd add one more...
which my pastor (a theological and political conservative) suggested to me is the reason he avoids any kind of politics. He genuinely worries that some seekers might feel unwelcome if their politics differ from something being professed in our church (7,500 weekly attendance and one of the fastest-growing in the U.S.). The problem with that is that there are certain political positions that are so clearly Biblical, like opposition to abortion, that to avoid taking sides has led to what Bill Hybels recently called a failure to produce spiritually mature followers of Christ. As Giles pointed out, we are called not just "to salvage souls but also build good society." For churches to focus on one to the exclusion of the other is one form of spiritual immaturity. Seekers need to understand that churches will not compromise their core beliefs or the logical extensions of those beliefs into political ideology. Tolerate opposing views, yes; remain silent about and/or accommodate clearly anti-Biblical positions, no.

I suspect the real problem is that there are certain left-leaning pastors who have infiltrated my church and used the "welcoming" argument as a disguise for their real agenda, which is to silence Christian conservatives and eventually turn many Christians into leftists using false doctrine. This is the kind of liberalization for which Mike Huckabee reportedly fought within the Baptist church and which we have watched eviscerate the once-respectable Episcopal Church, and many others.

Great posts, talent scout.

Expected from communists
Robert writes: 12:43 AM

...

but if you want to preach current politics from your pulpit then we pull the tax exempt status.

Robert
-------
Course the Founders were not communists/socialist/lunatics

Sermon on Civil Liberty, Nathaniel Niles (1774) An example of how clergymen stoked the revolutionary spirit

Sermon One

Nathanial Niles
1774

I. Corrinth. Chap. VII Ver. 21

Art thou called being a servant? Care not for it; but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.


http://www.teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?do cument=1036

WWJD?
Jesus during His ministry didn't talk about the evil Roman Empire as a peacenik, because His Kingdom was not of earthen origin. His followers, many of them, expected a warrior saviour. Of Biblical references, "render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and unto God, God's."

Jesus, Himself, had a hard time separating Himself from local politics, even in Church.

Those who spoke out eventually paid with more precious specie -- their lives. If we don't speak out more that Christ is the Only route to salvation it may be so again. Especially after 9/11 -- which for a time saw a growth in church attendance and then a rapid decline worse than before planes hit NYC, Pennsylvania and D.C.

Wrong Priorities
The number one priority for the Church is to preach Christ and Him crucified for our sins.

I don't know what kind of church Doug attends, if any, but from what he writes, it appears that he believes that MAN is the answer to the worlds problems.

Instead of getting Christ into the hearts of people, Doug would have politics preached. I can't remember when politicians solved anything. Why put your trust in them, when one can be a part of God's family. Doug seems to forget that If God is for us, who can stand against us.

Trust God, not politicians or guns.

And yet, BTF,
let us not forget Jesus wasn't exactly trusting in God to do the right thing when He cleansed the temple, for just one example...or are you waiting for the Second Coming to do your work for you?

Doug is spot-on.

Pastors, Priests and Bishops
You are wrong about one thing: Fear of losing Tax Exempt status.
the Catholic Church which I no longer attend, give money to, or follow, actively promotes, defends, and urges ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.
The reason I quit was that the priests and bishops are false leaders. They do not care about your soul; They want more parishioners and more money.
My conclusion was that the church puts the money you donate into:
Lawsuits againt Pervert Priests
Illegal Immigrant's hands.
Palatial churches, like Cardinal Mahoney's in LA .
(The same Cardinal who lectured his parishioners to violate Federal Law and conceal Illegal Aliens)

# 7

Doug writes: "...They forget that they are commanded to be seriously engaged with our culture or fall into the worthless category Christ warned them of (Mt. 5.13)..."

Matthew 5:13 "Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men."

Salt is a good cleansing agent (in a wound); it also stings like the truth.

The responsibility of the pastors (human) is to win souls to Christ and change public opinion; most pastors today are sugar, and some of them are even worshipped.

*****

If The Shoe Fits - Wear It
One need only read some of the commentary here to see where some are receiving their pastoral guidance. They are hearing what they want to hear and they are willing to pay the pastor to be responsible for their in-actions. Give me a firebrand any day over an Osteen. Perhaps Pastor Chuck Baldwin might enlighten some of you who need an awakening.

Self righteous self centered egomaniac
Doug Giles thinks he’s God.

>1. Fear of man.
Bull. That’s your MACHO I HAVE BIG GUN, ME, LOOK AT ME I KNOW. Yea your EGO is big and talking all the time. Only you have cajones, you and Bill Oh saving the world from SP and war on Christmas.

>2. Ignorance.
How about teaching God's words, law, the Gospel, praising the Lord in prayer and fellowship, not taking on Bill-Oh’s Tee-Wankers verses SP's political bull. Church is above petty bull you spew.

>3. Division.
>Hey, divisive Christian rebel without a clue
>become a Satanist, who go screw up their
>church. Make mountains out of little molehills.
>Minister to seek unity with secularists who are
>trashing the Scripture with impunity...

YOU ARE THE DIVISIVE divisive ONE. Satanist? You need to get a CLUE! No Pastor compromises on the teachings to MAKE FRIENDS. The Bible is for everyone not just Republicans. God's command, make disciples of all nations, including secularist. Jesus would not shun or attack them. Politics is not about God, its about power.

>4. Last Days madness.
>Many ministers believe that “it simply doesn’t
>matter”

Ministering to the flock is more important. Separation of Church and State, Church can't choose a party, influence votes, elections and politics. (Gov) can't harass, promote or restrict religion. Very simple. Get a Constitution.


>5. Sloth. Classically defined, sloth is
>lethargy stemming from a sense of hopelessness.

I know dozens and dozens of Pastors and Fathers and Ministers and NONE are sloths.

Doug Giles thinks he’s God
>6. They don’t want to lose their tax exempt
>status. This can make pastors who don’t, or
>won’t, get good legal advice about as
>politically active as Howard Hughes was during
>the flu season.

Frankly many Churches would promote the Dems because the GOP is full of perverts and greed and don't care about the poor. FACT JACK.

>7. They bathe in paltry pietism. Pastors avoid
>politics because such concerns are unspiritual,
>and their focus is on the “spirit world.”

NOW YOU GOT IT. Religion or Jesus is not the Domain of politics or the GOP.


>8. They have bought into the Taliban
>comparison. Pastors have muffled their
>political/cultural voices. Ministers, please
>blow off the tongue-wagging blowhards who try
>to intimidate you into silence by making
>quantum, ludicrous, cross-eyed wet dream.

SO THEY SHOULD BLOW YOU OFF, HA HA. I know your heart is cold and dark by your writing. I'll Pray for you.


>9. They can’t say “no” to minutiae...ministers
>with their messiah complexes and the
>congregants with their me-monkey syndromes, if
>the church is going to tackle cultural issues.

Minutiae? Like ministering TO THEIR Congregation? Soul, faith first not politics. YOU ARE THE ONE WITH THE MESSIAH COMPLEX.


>10. They likely the money.

Yea like James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson. Dobson has hurt the Focus on the Family group. They WANT HIM OUT. Why? Because HE IS NOT Focusing on the Family. YOU WANT TO GET INTO POLITCS, RUN FOR OFFICE.

jetpilot's reading "comprehension"?
Getting involved with social issues and fighting the good cultural fight is by definition "political".

It is not necessary for pastors and priests to endorse or oppose candidates by name. If they are teaching their flocks about the principles found in the Word, and if they are effective, their parishioners will be able to discern for themselves which candidates to support.

What I hear Doug Giles saying is that too many church leaders run from any controversial issues out of fear of "Man" and "Caesar". And he's also pointing out how leaders and congregations can be true to their convictions without risking the exempt tax status of their Church.

Unless your handle is "jetpilot", it is not difficult to understand that Giles is simply suggesting that Church leaders have a duty to actually "lead" in ways that aren't always comfortable.

But that's the job.

Primus 54
Absolutely correct.The left never complained when the Clintons had all the conservative leaders audited

Blackthorne
"let us not forget Jesus wasn't exactly trusting in God to do the right thing when He cleansed the temple, for just one example..." What? Jesus IS God. Where is your head?

#11 There Is No Culture War
Most people don't listen to MSMers like Giles or O'Reilly and are unaware there's a culture war. Why? It's mad up out of whole cloth. It's a lie to sell news and other media. Some few buy into it, and they make a lot of noise.

I think AliveInHim and BornToFarm are onto the reason most people don't pay the faux war no mind, they've got better things to do, preach, pray, play, work--the things most people are busy doing.


Birdman
"Personally, I think that the pastors around the country see the ministry as a goose laying golden eggs for THEM (#10). Why should they upset a good thing and lose their power and riches?"

That is why most non-denominational churches are so large. They don't preach a balance of "Law & Gospel" but rather Gospel only. Most attendees do not fear the possibility of being embarrassed with Law being ignored so they are quite happy to attend.

king liberal
you may go to church but your not a child of God. i'm pretty sure you go to a leftist church where they preach a womens right to choose is paramount to any other issue in the bible. anyway, reading your posts proves you have no knowledge of the Will of God. your god is men like al gore....preachers should be on the front lines of this culture war because thats their job.

Pastor Means Shepherd
The title "Pastor" means "shepherd".

The job of a shepherd is:

To protect his flock from danger.
To provide for his flock's needs.
To lead his flock in the path they need to go.
To rescue those members of his flock who have strayed from the right path.

It is disgusting that we've gotten to the point where the idea that a pastor should be a MORAL LEADER is shocking and controversial.

God help us because our "leaders" in the pulpit aren't.

Leaveusalone
Why does anyone need this article? Is that all that's left for this guy to do this year? Is he contractually obligated to write so many columns?
Ragging on men of the cloth.
In a country where Utah and Vegas exist just go where you want and do what you want. Stop telling others what they have to do.

wrightsrong52 complains:
"Stop telling others what they have to do..."

Got a tip for you, wrightsrong52 - you don't have to read or react to this or any of Giles' columns.

You sound like someone who has a guilty conscience and doesn't like others reminding him of it.

The Membership Business
Like unions, pastors are in the membership business. The more they have, the better. It is the same reason why both embrace illegal immigration. It means more members for both unions and the Catholic Church (Mexican illegals). The pastors (all religions) simply don't want a dwindling flock so they try not to alienate anyone on culture issues instead of leading on culture issues, as we wish they would.

propaganda
Neocon propoganda is omnipresent and very subtle. They now control all of media and now most of government's critical posts. By 1967, our CIA had produced or subsidized well over a 1000 books to influence matters generally. Source: The American Police State by David Wise, Random House, 1976. By 1977, a Congressional committee,Church's, learned from investigation conducted by Carl Bernstein that over 400 USA journalists, including ones with NYT and all television networks, were conducting CIA PsyOps. Noam Chomsky has written extensively on the sinister combination betwee government and media (and this was before huge neocon advances recently. While Mr. Chomsky is extremely critical of Isreal, whenever a suspected truth points to Israel and is so bad that its disclosure would mean its end, he changes and states that you should not want to know the truth (i.e. JFK assassination, 9/11).
Now subtle indirect propoganda supports the globalizaiton economic policy of neocons and CFR and the use of nuclear weapons and the demonization of all of their enemies. If the past is any guide, our CIA is likely financing it. This article is part of that and seeks to induce pastors to demonize Muslims (but really only mentions Taliban). Virtually all media pundits in USA are in thrall to neocon agenda.
This country needs a media outlet not controlled or intimidated by Zionists. Our media will not publish terror links (London 7/7/05 or 9/11) when evidence points wrong way. Thanks for reading.

Doug
Doug may spend better time reading the Bible instead of shoveling out his b.s.

I think the government should tax ...
the churches. Heavily. Once the money is gone the wheat will be seperated from the chaff and we can move on with the fight.
The largest sponsors of organized main stream religion are corporate, so much so that the 'organizations' could not survive without corporate support. Corporations have a vested interest in home stability and will support and subvert any organization to ensure domestic tranquility.
Gay is good ... mohamedism is the religion of peace .... follow the money trail.

The great mass is little more than a mouth an anal fixture and a genital fixture. So in the end Marx was correct about dialectic materialism.

It has always been the faithful remnant who sustained freedom.

#1
1. Fear of man. If you purport to be a man of God then your regard for God and His opinion must trump the trepidation of the creature God created from spit and mud. Come on, man of God, don’t fear the crowd . . . we’re ants with cell phones who’ll shoot Botox into our foreheads. We’re weird and fickle weather vanes of what’s en vogue. You’ve got to lead us. Therefore, go to the mountain . . . get a fresh dose of holy terror and move into Moses mode and command us to be and do what is holy, just and good. The grinning, mild, subtle Oprah approach doesn’t seem to be stemming the current flood of filth.

Attacking Oprah just because she supports Obama. What a sad man and weakling. Why doesn't he attack some of the big time moral losers like Rove, who called Evangelicals "Nuts," or how about Bush who lies and tortures.

Akennas
Thing is Giles is a coward. He attacks the people Jesus would sit down to eat supper with and leaves the big dogs alone. He attacks a 16 year old pop star and leaves alone the Rupert Murdock's who rake in the cash.

Taft - the trouble with keeping your
courage is that life is so daily.

Here in the United States, we have so much to lose by standing up for our beliefs, yet our nation seems durable because it has taken so much battering on every side. It seems easier to just keep our heads down and do our jobs.

In nations where The Church is under persecution, believers are stronger and more desireous of sharing their faith.

Christians in this country only have a taste of persecution from the activist Left, but the strength of the Left is growning in power.

The time is coming when real courage is going to be needed in order to practice religion at all, and I believe that when it is here, the true believers will be shored up by the Holy Spirit, while the false believers will drop away from the faith.

I will hate to see those days arrive in this once amazing country, but without a nationwide Revival, those days are coming quickly.

On the other hand, the refining of the church is a beautiful thing, and passing through the fire of persecution is the best thing for it.

JR-how is the tin foil hat working 4 ya?
JR sez "...Virtually all media pundits in USA are in thrall to neocon agenda..."
**********************************************

Say what?

Please tell me what channel you are watching.

All the shows I see on broadcast TV are anti-war, anti-Christian, anti-American, pro-Socialism, pro-feminazism, and pro-gaymafia.

I can barely turn the darn thing on!

primus
So why the analysis? Better than me? You are a case in point. Giles should join the priesthood and show us how it's done.

Mountain Rose
"Christians in this country only have a taste of persecution from the activist Left, but the strength of the Left is growning in power."

The big moral dilemmas I see in our society are rampant greed and raunchy pop culture. I don't know how one could blame the Left on that. Its basically love of money and the tsunami of our modern times. The answer to our problems, as I see it, are down to earth Christianity and better public diligence. The left has been just as incredulous with the Spears pregnancy thing as the right. We our not our enemies, as much as the far right would like to divide us.

Mountain Rose
I discern two parts to your comment. One, the media control I will go quickly over; remember the Harvard head of Kennedy school of government could not get his article critical of Israel published anywhere in USA. On to horrible content:

The views of neoconservatives have arguably ruined much of America's culture as one (Michael Ledeen in War against Terror Masters) admits that constant destruction and perpetual revolution is America's "historic mission":

"Creative destruction is our middle name, both within our society and abroad. We tear down the old order every day, from business to science, literature, art, architecture, and cinema to politics and law. Our enemies have always hated this whirlwind of energy and creativity which menaces their traditions (whatever they may be) and shames them for their inability to keep pace. .... [W]e must destroy them to advance our historic mission."

This type of mindset has unleashed mindless immigration and mindless destruction of the best features of our society and country ---not to mention perpetual agitation. Now it is clear that they are for destruction of major portions of the whole world, including murder of hundrends of millions by nuclear weapons. As unbelievable as that sounds, they fiqure that they will be the masters of world.

So in conclusion, destruction of our culture fits their aims, as does destruction of country, first by merger with Mexico and Canada and all wild theories of members of Council on Foreign Relations, who have no loyality to this country or its economy or security; as they induce us to destroy ourselves by following their advice. Thanks for reading.


wrightsrong52 :
Better than you?

Hardly... just your run-of-the-mill imperfect human.

I was merely pointing out that instead of complaining about Giles' column, you could simply not read it or ignore it if you did.

Merry Christmas, however!

Mountain Rose
I discern two parts to your comment. One, the media control I will go quickly over; remember the Harvard head of Kennedy school of government could not get his article critical of Israel published anywhere in USA. On to horrible content:

The views of neoconservatives have arguably ruined much of America's culture as one (Michael Ledeen in War against Terror Masters) admits that constant destruction and perpetual revolution is America's "historic mission":

"Creative destruction is our middle name, both within our society and abroad. We tear down the old order every day, from business to science, literature, art, architecture, and cinema to politics and law. Our enemies have always hated this whirlwind of energy and creativity which menaces their traditions (whatever they may be) and shames them for their inability to keep pace. .... [W]e must destroy them to advance our historic mission."

This type of mindset has unleashed mindless immigration and mindless destruction of the best features of our society and country ---not to mention perpetual agitation. Now it is clear that they are for destruction of major portions of the whole world, including murder of hundrends of millions by nuclear weapons. As unbelievable as that sounds, they fiqure that they will be the masters of world.

So in conclusion, destruction of our culture fits their aims, as does destruction of country, first by merger with Mexico and Canada and all wild theories of members of Council on Foreign Relations, who have no loyality to this country or its economy or security; as they induce us to destroy ourselves by following their advice. Thanks for reading.


Taft
"The big moral dilemmas I see in our society are rampant greed and raunchy pop culture. I don't know how one could blame the Left on that."
*********************************************

You have obviously never worked in Hollywood or New York.

JR- here's a new roll of tinfoil
obviously some of the radio waves are getting through.

King Liberal
the fact that you are a Catholic tells me nothing about your theology or your politics.

Teddy (*urp*) Kennedy and Sean Hannity are both Catholics.

Harry Reid and Mitt Romney are both Mormons.

Jimmuh Carter and Charles Stanley are both Baptists.

Your Theology tells me about your Theology, and your Politics tell me about your Politics.

As to attending a Catholic church: Sitting in a garage and drinking gasoline does not make you a car.

To Mountain Rose
Between about 1999 and 2004 we heard numerous examples of fundamentalist churches working to elect GW Bush and then to keep him in the White House. We heard of voter registration desks being set up in sanctuaries. We heard of pastors urging their flock to vote Republican.

We heard of David Barton being hired by the GOP as religion consultant; by 2004 he had spoken at 300 events held for evangelical pastors, instructing them that they were legally allowed to endorse candidates from the pulpit (Barton is not a lawyer, nor is he a credentialed historian, especially since his "quotations" from the Founding Fathers have turned out to be fabricated). We heard also of audiences at Bush's campaign stops being recruited from fundamentalist churches, from which they were bussed to the campaign rally. And we heard infinite bragging about how the efficient organization of the evangelists had put "one of their own" in the White House. There appears to be no question that evangelistic churches were permitted to act freely in the pro-Bush movement and that they did so very successfully.

Meanwhile liberal churches in which the minister, in a sermon, questioned Bush's invasion of Iraq, suddenly found themselves being audited and threatened with loss of their tax-exempt status because the minister had "partipated in the political process".

So, Rosie, why don't you leave off quoting Rush Limbaugh and do some research. Why don't you find us an example of Unitarians being transported to a John Kerry rally?

lilly
What "you hear" as an extreme leftist is very likely untrue.
Things Democrats believe often begin from innuendo Libs keep adding their own exaggeration to and suddenly; "Bush is a liar!"
This is the origin of that Leftist LIE!
http://www.mrc.org/realitycheck/2006/fax20060413.asp

See what I am trying to say?

When you post things like that please give a link.

Mountain Rose
As coincidence would have it Spears is a Bush supporter. If one where to look at the raunchiest t.v. shows, I don't think you would find a Left or Right but profit driven backer. Fox networks are a very big offender, even its news is half porn, and thats owned by Murdock.

THIS COULD HAPPEN TO YOU!

Once upon a Christmas Eve, shortly after 9:PM a call came for Santa from a 5 yr. old girl with an urgent request for a doll.
Surly the single mom has a doll for the little girl, right? It is safe to tell her Santa will bring her a doll, right?
No? NO!
My wife smiled at me and said, "You got yourself into this, Santa".
So my quest begins

All the stores were closed. In those days they rolled up the streets at 9:PM.
I remembered an all night pharmacy 13 miles away. They had no dolls.
I drove around for awhile trying to find something open then remembered seeing a doll in the window display of a liquor store.
The owner was there and sympathetic to my tale of woe. He sold me the doll and Santa lived happily ever after.

That call may come for YOU late some Christmas Eve. You won't be able to say no to that 5 yr. old child nor will you be able to tell him/her that Santa will not bring the toy they want.
So when you hang up that phone, remember;
You got yourself into this, Santa!

BornToFarm
It would be easier to trust God if He Himself were to make regular public appearances.

Have you ever wondered why there are people who deny the existence of God, but there are no people that deny the existence of President George W. Bush?

DaveH
Churches are more interested in sheltering boy shaggers in their ranks than preaching Christ crucified and resurrected.

dbz77
On the subject of "boy shaggers"
That seems to be the real reason for the Democratic Party.

You Democrats go out of your way to provide children to the pedophiles among you.
http://hollycrud.com/2006/10/nancy-girl-wants-old-gays-with -young.html

Only criminals and cowards fear guns in the hands of honest men.

10 reasons why pastors avoid the culture
I don't understand all this talk about pastors who faithfully pastor their flocks and preach the truths of the scripture. God's people should definitely defend the truths of scripture and that would include an anti-abortion stance, as well as many other social issues but to join hands with a political party that is only pandering to Christians to get their votes? It is true that we are to be salt and light in a dark world but that is the job of the church and its pastors to preach the word to believers and build them up so they may go into the world and carry out the Great Commission.

When Christ's church needs a political agenda to advance His Kingdom, we are in desperate straits.
If every one in America joined hands with the warriors of the "Culture War" and accept their values and fail to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ then they will wind up in Hell and the Lake of Fire. I believe that Christ reigns in this age and will reign in the age to come.

Don

MyOpine
Many have documented, even from republican perspective, that the case for crimes against humanity are immense. At best, GWB has been a idiot. A documentary of GWB, when President, visiting GHWB in Kennebuckport Maine, shows GWB asking his dad (after he has placed neoconservatives in every key post): "I keep reading about neoconservatives, just what is a neoconservative anyway?" GHWB replies: "I can explain it in one word." Documentary does not show answer, which unequivocally was: Israel. Seymour Hersh gave a luncheon speech in Washington a few years ago, wherein he confirmed that a few neoconservatives had taken over the country, that he never thought it would have been possible, but that they had done. [Naturally this is not well publicized.]

On any issue high on neocon agenda (globalization, wars, terror, immigration, torture, use of nuclear weapons, police state at home), one cannot get truth from mainstream media. Critical disclosures can be made in one paper and never be repeated in another. One of big three 1.5 hour 9/11 documentaries have journalists speak on this, as do many historical facts, such as reporting of attack on USS Liberty. However, much, much more likely, critical disclosures necessary to expose truth will come from secondary internet sources, either international or domestic that dare to publish matters adverse to neocon agenda.

In these times, one cannot have any sense of reality, and the action therein, and truth without secondary sources. A war has been going on in our military and our bureauacy between America Firsters versus neocon Israel Firsters. Virtually all big events are staged by intelligence agencies, and mainstream media are "limited hangout" operations for those agencies. Read Tarpley’s Synthetic Terrorism, and Piper’s Final Judgment; both from intelligence agency perspective; and Chomsky on Media Control: the Spectacular Achievements of Propaganda.

MyOpine
Ever heard of Cardinal Roger Mahony, who interferes with criminal investigations into child sexual abuse by f a g priests?

King Liberal
Which conservatives has praised Jamie-Lynn Spears for getting knocked up?

What pastors should do
Doug's message can be condensed to something much more manageable. All genuinely Christian clergy, regardless of denomination, should simply support conservative Republicans. That's it; that's all it takes, right Doug? If every minister and pastor of a genuinely Christian church (no mainline churches need aply here, and no Unitarians) would simply stand ukp and be counted for conservative Republicans, Doug's worries would vanish.

dbz77
EVERYONE is quite well aware of the problems churches have with pedophiles.

YOU pretend to be ignorant of the FACT that your own Democrat party supports NAMBLA!

Perverts like you who come to this Heritage Foundation site to insult people you have never seen or spoken to are just as sick as some lunatic standing on a corner shouting insults at passing cars.

Do you also claim to be ignorant of the FACT your ACLU constantly persecutes the Boy Scouts because they will not allow NAMBLA to provide Scout Masters?
Google ACLU v Boy Scouts and just count the number of times ACLU/NAMBLA attacked the Boy Scouts.

I can't see how ANY Democrat, (AKA Communist!), has any right to criticize anyone's character.
Personal honor is rarely found with a Democrat.

Only criminals and cowards fear guns in the hands of honest men.

primusur
Merry Christmas from another imperfect one.
You're right I shoudda kept my mouth shut. But I woulda missed your ho;iday wishes, so thanks

King Liberal
Where is Foley now?
Where is Barney Frank?
AND;
http://www.americansfortruth.com/news/does-nancy-pelosi-con done-manboy-sex-if-the-man-is-a-democrat.html


Only criminals and cowards fear guns in the hands of honest men.


10 Reasons
When you have 1000's of preachers and preists out there spewing out smoke and brimstone and self thoughts it is hard to take any of them serious. As if God would trust them with a real mseeage!

I feverently know that God exists and truly love what He has given us. Life and love and children and a variety of food that has to please everyone.

The most enjoyable gift that He gave us is our free moral agency. He doesn't force us to believe one way or the other. It is to our benefit to believe as He does but we can choose not to.

The worshippers of Allah have many different factions just as do all other religions. God does not believe in them. He told Eve that if she ate of the wrong tree she would die. The serpent told her she would not die thus calling God a liar. God later put in motion a plan for the ressurection of those that pleased Him. Untill the ressurection the dead are dead.

The Islamic feel that they go to heaven for all kinds of violent acts and other reasons and that the heavenly reward is all those virgins. Is a sexual reward what God has in mind for their happiness? Once they have sex they are no longer virgins, they are women.

No, when they die they are dead, awaiting perhaps a ressurection along with the others no matter what they believe.

When those of any other religion die they are dead, awaiting their possible ressurection. Unless like Eve you believe The serpent as she did and think you don't die and are able to make mockery of God.

The Islamic, the Jew, the Christian and whatever else peole may call them selves are dead and are not in heaven with virgins or watching their funeral down from heaven. These teachings are not from the true and loving God but are from The serpent who uses these teachings to keep the world in the mess and ungodly state it is in. No matter who you are there is only one God and He does it His way!

Big Al

Gestell
Think back as far as you can and try to recall an election where both sides DID NOT preach politics from the pulpit!

It may be possible to keep Government out of religion but I doubt we will ever find religion free of politics.

reasons for avoiding the culture war
It is very interesting to me that the people who are currently at the forefront of the "Culture Wars" would be surprised that over 30 years ago that the majority of the media (including the talk shows) were dominantly liberal. George H. Bush was the head of the C.I.A. and George W. Bush was going to Harvard Business School. We survived all of this liberal-socialistic government rule. I remember when the conservatives would speak out against deficit spending and then later run up great deficits. They decried and blamed the liberals as being soft on crime, ponography, and how the government was ruining the family by overtaxing them. Can anyone please tell me how much has changed since the 70's or for that matter the radical 60's? Has God and His truth found in scripture changed during this period of time? The King is on His Throne in this age and the age to come so the only certainties that I do see is God ruling over His Church.

We can't paint with a broad brush and say that the pastors of America are one of the causes for the failure in the culture. They are called to be shepherds of God's flock and faithful to Him in their accountability.

Politics, economics, science and technology will surely change but please read Malachi 3:6 where it tells us God doesn't change. Remember that the governments of men are not designed to bring man into right relationship with God through Jesus Christ but they are designed by God to protect us from evildoers and reward those that are good.

Gordo

10 reasons
Sir Giles,

The vicars have spoken, mostly silently but it is loud and clear but like a dog whistle and if you are not able to hear it, it is because you are too far from the master to hear it.

99% of the illegals are Catholics and as they come in, it swells the vicars ranks and the contribution plate.
They do not believe in birth control (thanks to the vicar's teaching) and therefore the numbers continue to grow.

It is thought that Mary was only 13 or 14 when she was impregnated with Jesus and therefore all the young girls are eligible for marriage at a very young age. They have no papers so they may even slip in a few 12 year olds. The system pays for the children so what would the vicar have against such an arrangement? Especially since it has all those lawsuits to pay for because the Vicars had their virgins before they went to heaven.

So let the illegals in, let them stay and swell the ranks and the donations and let them send money home so more can be born and come up here.
The vicars speak ever so loudly in their quiet sinister voice!

Big Al

king scumbucket
i've read enough of your posts to know what a little pipsqueak man of God you are. which is none. if that church would have you its no church of God either.

MyOpine
Turns out, honest men can be very scary when tey have guns. The honest man holding a gun at the door of his Florida home when a Japanese high school exchange student accidentally went to the wrong door seeking a Hallowe'en party he'd been invited to and got shot dead in an honest mistake by that honest gun-shooter was, nevertheless, honestly dead.

Every year we have similar stories: honest men can honestly panic and make dumb mistakes. Honest men with guns also go into rages and shoot their neighbors in a property dispute and their ex-wives in a custody dispute. I once had an honest man in a pickup truck threaten to shoot me if the door of my car nicked his truck as I got out in a supermarket parking lot.

I feel no safer with an honest white bill-paying tax-paying Small Town America Baptist Kiwanis Club member aiming a gun at me than I do with a dishonest black inner-city unemployed certified criminal aiming a gun at me. There's plenty of evidence that both are subject to uncontrolled rage and are likely to shoot first and think (if they do think) later.

Pastors
Pastors have a hard time. If they offend too many parishioners, they will lose their position. If they do not make the pew somewhat uncomfortable, they are not fulfilling their calling. Unfortunately, we have no saints in the pulpit. All the ministers, priests and rabbis are drawn from the body social. I perceive the body social of the United States to be rather rotten so we can expect some men (and not women) of the cloth to be less than they should be.
I read many of the comments and was distressed at the name calling and the derogation of so many emailers of other emailers.
Neocon seems to be a code word for Jew and is evidence of widespread bigotry and anti-Jewism.
The way that the U.S. has overlooked the misdeeds of the Palestinian Arabs and pushed on Israel to make concessions does not suggest that the Israeli or Jewish lobby is very effective.
The MSM (I don't think it is mainstream-if mainstream means reflecting the values and composition of the body politic) surely does not support conservative points of view and is heavily slanted in favor of the left. Fox and talk radio are about the only outlets that report favorably on conservative views.
Name calling usually hides an unwillingness to discuss ideas.

Lilly
For every incident where a firearm has been misused, there are THOUSANDS of incidents where they have been used to prevent crime.

Police cannot prevent crime.
Police arrive after the fact and fill out forms that sometimes help catch the criminal.

Take note of the fact that areas where anti-gun laws discourage honest citizens from owning the means of self defense you see the highest crime rate. They also have the highest taxes and largest police force and fear of crime permeates the cities.

People like you are responsible for those extra crimes, just as surely as if you helped to hold a girl being raped or helped stab a mugging victim.
You are the reason it happens.
You are even responsible for young men being in prison because they were enticed to commit crimes by the availability of helpless victims because you helped make the victims helpless!

Only criminals and cowards fear guns in the hands of honest men.

Don
Neocon means Israel First. Please consider: Are you happy about an undiscussed take over of America by Neocons, as reported by Sy Hersh? Are happy about the trillion dollars we have wasted on Wars of their encouragement? Maybe you have been swayed by their propaganda that torture is wonderful, and want to do away with habeas corpus and lock up people with no charge? Maybe you agree with them that virtually all mid east nations need to be nuked, and their millions killed? Maybe you like merger with Mexico? Maybe you like living in a nation where any point inimical to one agenda, no matter how truthful, cannot be published?

People who have not thought about these things are ignorant of the whole truth and are mental slaves in fact. When you try to have your view on an important issue published and fifty venues refuse, you will not feel that your country is so free.

Many cannot bear the thought that their leaders might not be correct, but the fate of this country rests on sound thought, not blind allegiance. The greatest patriots are those who always love their country, but never trust their government.

George Washington 1796 farewell address:
“[A] passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. And it gives to … corrupted or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium…”

“Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence …, free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government.”


Confirmation?




J.R: Your anti-Israel bias is incredible:
You write:

"Seymour Hersh gave a luncheon speech in Washington a few years ago, wherein he confirmed that a few neoconservatives had taken over the country."

Since when is a statement by a left-wing journalist a "confirmation" of anything?


Elliott
Bias? When you persist for decades with all dissent and revelations of truth stiffled and not permitted to be published, I would not call that bias. Rather that is attempts to create balance with disclosure. Witness the head of Harvard's Kennedy School of govt inability to publish their article in this country, but this country permits long feature article (WPost) critical of theirs (which cannot be published here).
Bias, when our country cannot mention the word Israel, whenever any evidence points to it, whether that be USS Liberty, assassination of JFK, or 9/11 or 7/7/05 London terror? That is not bias. Fox news did a report not too long ago that said that our authorities suspected Israel was alerting our wiretapped suspects in advance, but our officials were incapable of saying the word Israel out of fear.
Bias, when any sane American should not be opting for war without end.
As for neocon control, scores of sources exist, but Mr. Hersh was a Jewish one. Robert Scheer has acknowledged it in former article in LATimes; acknowledging their control, calling them insane in their love of Israel, and asking if we all should not love Israel so much? Well, other notable Jews, Noam Chomsky, for one, take a very dim view of Israeli atrocities (but he sees ones that Americans never see since their news is filtered).
This is not bias. It is amazing control and propaganda, that fogs our country's side to evil and bankruptcy. Thanks for reading.

Dumb article
Yeah, why get caught up in all that "End times madness" stuff when you can worry about temporal things instead? (Sarcasm intended). Kind of the opposite of what Christ taught, don't you think, Mr. Giles?

Jesu cleansing the Temple-not political


But, Jesus cleansing the temple had nothing to do with becomming involved with the politics of the day-it was about ending the misuse of the house of worship as a commercial marketplace.

RE: God and Government:

Jesus said when asked if it was proper to pay taxes to Caesar,(aka the government)
after asking to see the tax money, he asked the tax protestors: whose face (lit inscription) was on the Money? They replied: "Caesar's!"

He then said: "then give unto Caesar, the things which are Caesar's..." (meaning the government issued money which was made in Caesar's image.)

And, he continued, "and give to God the things which are God's."

Meaning: give to God *ourselves* who are made in God's image and belooing to Him.

That should (but sadly never does) shut up the bitterly angry and often hysterical tax crybabies who are always trying to imply that taxes are somehow ungodly-they are not- they are simply a *legal* secular debt-which according to our Lord the Highest moral authority should be paid without murmuring.

What we *legally* owe to others, including the despised (by many conservatives) United States government, is NOT "Ours"; it is Caesar's-and our other legitimate creditors.

And by the way, the Roman government was FAR more evil and wicked than our government. so Jesu really left no room for us to argue that our government spends "our" money for bad things

Jesus KNEW what The Roman goivernment spent tax monies for: wars of aggression, public baths, public arts and sculptures, and all kinds of things we would not approve of.

Joan Baez once tried to withold her taxes because she thought it was wrong for the government to take "Her" money to apply to wars which violated her "morals".

The courts said too bad: and they garnished her bank accountand took "her" money.

What's sauce for Joan Baez is sauce for us too!





J. R.
I see the kool-aid is strong, and the tin-foil is weak.

Live long and prosper -- or whatever it is you folks not of this earth say to each other...

Wisdom
A reader hoping to find wisdom in these comments went away disappointed. We have gained little, if any, knowledge or understanding, only conflicting opinions.

Christian politics divided
Giles wrote:"pastors are not only supposed to salvage souls but also build good society."

I would like everyone promoting this view to please start citing chapter and verse when doing so.

If you would like a thorough argument that the job of Christians is personal evangelism rather than political activism read Why Government Can't Save You: An Alternative to Political Activism by John MacArthur.

By they way, there are slowly increasing numbers of churches giving up their tax exempt status so they can say whatever they like and host any speaker they like. While I don't always agree to their approach to fighting the culture war, I respect their integrity to speak the truth above all.

reply to MyOpine
Here's a chore for you. Come up with quotes from campaign speeches of Republicans or Democrats that make religious appeals from the following elections: 1948,1952,1956. I'll bet you can't.


reply to MyOpine
Here's a chore for you. Come up with quotes from campaign speeches of Republicans or Democrats that make religious appeals from the following elections: 1948,1952,1956. I'll bet you can't.


Churches shouldn't register with state--


Many years ago, Dr. Gary North wrote in his Remnant Review newsletter that biblically consistent churches will not register with the state as churches because that automatically makes them subject to state and federal regulations regarding what pastors can say as pastors. That also means they cannot claim a tax exemption on gifts, but that is the price they pay for the freedom to meet their pastoral obligation to say what they think is the truth. Were I to start a New Testament church, I would never even consider registering with the government as a religious organization, nor would I accept a dime for my ministry or build a "church" building. I value my freedom to speak the truth and act on that truth far too much to do such a stupid thing. May God have mercy on those confused souls who subject themselves and their flocks to the governance of the Godless secular authorities.

Doug, et al...
Merry Christmas and a blessed New Year to you and yours.

Doug: You are a "salty" pastor. Keep up the great work!

Political Change and the Kingdom
I think Doug is being overly simplistic. Christ was not about political change. The Kingdom is not a product of legislative reform. Freely repositioning ourselves in relation to others because of who we are and because of who He is stands in rather sharp contrast to the coercive political agendas being advanced by the Christian Right, and even more so, by the Christian Left.

But our God is a God of order and a God of social organization. Jesus said "Render to Caesar..." So Christians have dual citizenship in both earthly and heavenly kingdoms. But we must not confuse the two. As Christians, we have unique, sometimes divergent perspectives to offer about justice, freedom, and peace in our earthly kingdoms. However, we must assiduously guard against conflating our truth claims about earthly kingdoms with God's Truth claims about His Kingdom. Our ability to remain unified as Christians even in our political differences will demonstrate the power of God's Kingdom.

Perhaps some pastors who avoid the politics of the culture wars simply want to make sure that politics do not become a stumbling block to the Gospel.
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