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Saturday, November 04, 2006
Doug Giles :: Townhall.com Columnist
We Love Pepsi. They Love Death.
by Doug Giles
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Poll
Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


Imagine there's no America
It's easy if you try
Just a big Muslim mess
No Stars and Stripes to fly
Imagine all our people
Living as Islamic slaves.

Imagine there's no Country and Western
It isn't hard to do
No baseball or hot dogs
as far a freedom goes, we’re screwed
Imagine all our pretty girls
wearing black little sheets.

You may say that I'm a doom-n-gloomer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll wake the heck up
And our nation will still be strong.

Imagine there’s no possessions
That’s the Muslim plan
No need for Ford or Chevy
A veritable Suckistan
Imagine all our people
Losing all we have.

You may say that I'm a doom-n-gloomer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll wake the heck up
And our nation will still be strong.

* Logon to ClashRadio.com for Doug’s interview with author Mark Steyn, as they discuss his new book, America Alone: The End of the World as We Know It. Also, Giles’ 3-Minute video blog can be viewed at ClashRadio.com and can be seen throughout the week on NRB TV [Direct TV Channel 378]. His latest book, Bulldog Attitude: Get it or Get Left Behind, can be purchased at Amazon.com.

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About The Author
Doug Giles’ new book “If You're Going Through Hell, Keep Going!" is now available. Ann Coulter says "Doug Giles is a substantive and funny tour de force for traditional values.” Doug’s talk show and video blog can be seen and heard at www.ClashRadio.com.
 
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David M
"Today is a good day."

For islamism.

"The Bhagavad Gita never claims to be history."

So it's irrelevant to the discussion.

[Me: There are historians and researchers, and historians as interpreters -- that is, dealing with primary and with secondary evidence.]

You: "You are drawing a distinction here which appears entirely irrelevant to me."

Errata: I meant "historians AS researchers" -- that may have cluttered my meaning.

My point is that evidence matters. Interpretation about evidence is opinion. I see the distinction as vital.

"I don't believe that any great purpose is served by arguing about the merits of Herodotus."

I brought him up as a point about the historiography of ancient times: it was sound. My point was that Luke worked with sound principles of scholarship.

"The authors of the Bible borrowed from their pagan neighbors. The[y] modified the texts somewhat in order to fit in with the evolving theology of monotheism, that is all."

Yes, you've repeated you previous assertion quite nicely. I won't argue about your own opinion. I simply identify it as opinion.

[Me: In fact, the dating of Hammurabi IS highly variable...] You: "Certainly the subject is neato and also irrelevant."

Yes, it might very well seem so. But your argument hinges on precedence -- who came first, Moses or Hammurabi. I won't go off on the tangent that I didn't go off on before. I will state on my own authority that Moses antedates Hammurabi. I know, I'm an ignoramus. We've already agreed on that. The fact that I have published several hundreds of thousands of words on this very topic will be discounted. I must by lying, anyway.

[Me: A dogmatic assertion. You didn’t read the links. Not MY imagination at all.] You: "You wrote an awful lot on the subject. Too much. Maybe on another day I will read it."

And yet you pronounced it my "imagination." Hardly honest, eh?

"A nonexistent third source is unnecessary and really doesn't help your position at all."

And yet you will be an adherent to the theory of the Q document.

"What is clearly evident is that these borrowed ideas came from extrabiblical, uninspired sources."

Again with the "borrowed." This is the logical fallacy of handwaving.

"Since the ideas predate the New Testament and are not present in the Old Testament they must have come from an extrabiblical, uninpsired source."

Begging the question. Dogmatic assertion. Horns of a false dilemma.


J

Gratings, David.

"The Bhagavad Gita transends history. It is a lovely book. I recommend that you read it"

Golly, Mr. Science! You mean it's both true, and not true. Holey Moley! How did you get so smart?

I read it when you were learning how to ride your BigWheel.

"There are some scholarly historians who say that the Bible contains historical errors."

You changed the terms of the discussion. There are historians and researchers, and historians as interpreters -- that is, dealing with primary and with secondary evidence. As the Holy Book says -- oh, I mean the REAL Holy Book ... the ONLY Holy Book ... you know, the Bible? Ahem. As I was saying, as God's Holy Word states, a man seems honest, until his neighbor speaks.

"If you compare Luke to Herodotus you are insulting Luke."

An authoritative-sounding opinion. I let my statement stand. He was careful to report rumor as rumor. This is integrity. He's called the Father of Lies, and the Father of History. The former displays an unsubtle and incomprehending grasp of the work.

Herodotus's "accuracy was due to his painstaking research and interviews with many of the eyewitnesses, both Greek and Persian, of the events that he narrated." [Terry Buckley, Aspects of Greek History, 750-323 B.C.: A Source-Based Approach. London and New York: Routledge, 1996; p. 161/]

"I hope that you are not suggesting that the Gilgamesh Epic and Babylonian creation account were borrowed by the pagans from Moses. Or do you have some other explanation for the similarities?"

It's called "euhemerism." Real historical events become corrupted as legend and myth. Many but not all of the flood myths are based on local catastrophic floods. The Deucalion and Ogyges floods of the Greeks are related to the Thera catastrophe, for example. Many of the native American myths are remembered from the breaking of ice dams remnant of the glaciation period. Northern Asia was overwhelmed by the flooding of the Artic Ocean by a meteor strike -- hence the presence of whole ecosystems preserved in the permafrost. Etc. Gilgamesh (correlative with Horus, btw) was a real king of Erech (Uruq, from which we get Iraq) dating from the period of the pre-dynastic tombs of Ur -- son of Dumuzi/ Tammuz/ Nimrod/ Osiris/ Narmer. The preserved kinglists and other cuneiform records are clear and in agreement. His liaison with Ishtar and his meeting with a flood patriarch mean whatever they mean.

I will not trouble you with the problems and scandals of the chronology of Egyptology. Enough to say that all of ancient history is keyed to the Dynastic system of dating devised by Manetho. If the dynasties should by some incredible chance be misarranged, then the dating of, say, Hammurabi is highly variable. In fact, the dating of Hammurabi IS highly variable, there being three different standard dates for him which differ by three centuries. The point is that our earliest record of the Epic of Gilgamesh is from Hammurabi’s era – and Hammurabi’s era is dependant on Egyptian chronology, and I will not go into detail here since it is off-topic. But it’s really a neato subject.

“Interpreting the constellations as the gospel is merely a revelation of your own imagination and creativity. Nothing else.”

A dogmatic assertion. You didn’t read the links. Not MY imagination at all.

“Are you familiar with the Pseudepigrapha?”

Intimately

“There are plenty of New Testament ideas which were borrowed from the Jewish Pseudepigrapha.”

“Borrowed”? Could it be that both take as their origin some third source? But of course your “plenty” is not merely suspect, but wrong.

“The authors of the New Testament were aware of the extracanonical books.”

You did say “Nag Hammadi,” not “Jewish pseudepigraphae.” Of course you refer to the Book of Enoch -- and Jude doesn’t quote it, rather they both quote an extant oral prophesy, similar to ‘Who hangs upon a tree is cursed.’

J
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