"This thing looks like it was thrown together as a photo-op event. They made claims for $2 trillion worth of savings over 10 years that had no credible basis in econometric analysis," said Robert E. Moffit, director of the Heritage Foundation's Center for Health Policy.

"When the photo op took place, they spoke in terms of generalities, like standardization of forms, use of health-information technology and administrative simplification. Unless you have some kind of detailed explanation of how the initiatives would be implemented, there is no way you could arrive at such a figure," Moffit told me.

Then on Monday, the health-industry officials took another stab at the elusive cost-savings figure that Obama sought from them, but apparently they still fell way short of the White House's goal by several hundred billion dollars.

The groups identified several general areas for savings -- from vague administrative efficiencies and standardizing claim forms -- which they said could total $1 trillion to $1.7 trillion in a decade. But they did not say how much the savings would accrue to the government instead of the healthcare system at large. Also missing: any annual percentage.

Each group offered its own proposals but did not say how much they would save because they didn't know.

"Clearly, this cost-control plan was not well thought through and reflects the administration's difficulty in finding a way to pay the $1.5 trillion price tag on its health-reform plan," said Grace-Marie Turner, president of the Galen Institute, a healthcare-reform group.

Obama hoped to bankroll his plan with his cap-and-trade energy taxes and placing limits on mortgage interest and charitable deductions, but both of those proposals are dead. A value-added tax, a national-sales-tax idea, is going nowhere, either.

Between the failure to find specific, measurable savings and attainable tax revenues, prospects for Obama's healthcare plan are looking kind of shaky right now.