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Friday, November 09, 2007
Dinesh D'Souza :: Townhall.com Columnist
Why the Berlin Wall Fell
by Dinesh D'Souza
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In October 1987 Ronald Reagan stood at the Brandenburg Gate and said, “General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization…tear down this wall.” Two years later, in what may be the most spectacular political event of our lifetimes, the Berlin Wall came tumbling down, the Soviet empire collapsed, and the world entered a new period of relative peace and prosperity.

But how and why did the wall come tumbling down? I want to argue that it was Reagan’s statesmanship that made possible this epochal event. Reagan didn’t, of course, do it alone. But without him it probably wouldn’t have happened.

As early as 1981, when virtually everyone considered the Soviet empire a permanent fixture of the international landscape, Reagan spoke at the University of Notre Dame where he predicted that “the West won’t contain communism; it will transcend communism. It will dismiss it as a bizarre chapter in human history whose last pages are even now being written.” The next year Reagan told the British Parliament that freedom and democracy would “leave Marxism-Leninism on the ash heap of history.”

When Reagan made these forecasts the wise men in the media and academia scoffed. Today these same pundits maintain that the Soviet Union collapsed by itself due to economic failure, or that Mikhail Gorbachev was responsible. Reagan, they insist, merely presided over an event that his policies did little to influence.

This analysis makes no sense at all. Sure, the Soviet Union had economic problems on account of its socialist system. But the Soviet economy had been ailing for most of the century. Never in history has a great empire imploded due to poor economic performance alone. The Roman and Ottoman empires survived internal corrosion and domestic strains for generations before each was destroyed by military force.

Like many empires suffering from domestic strains, the Soviets during the 1970s compensated for these by pursuing an aggressive foreign policy. Between 1974 and 1980, while the U.S. wallowed in post-Vietnam angst, 10 countries fell into the Soviet orbit: South Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, South Yemen, Angola, Mozambique, Ethiopia, Nicaragua, Grenada and Afghanistan. The Soviet nuclear arsenal surpassed that of the United States, and the Soviets deployed a new generation of intermediate-range missiles targeted at Western Europe. Far from being on the verge of collapse, the Soviet Union in 1980 seemed to be in the vanguard of history.

It is no less problematic to attribute the Soviet collapse to Gorbachev. He was undoubtedly a reformer and a new type of Soviet general secretary, but why did the Politburo in 1985 feel the need to turn over leadership to this man? Certainly the communist bosses did not wish him to lead the party, and the regime, over the precipice.

Nor did Gorbachev see this as his role. On the contrary, he insisted throughout the second half of the 1980s that he sought to strengthen the Soviet economy in order to strengthen the Soviet military. The Politburo supported Gorbachev’s reforms because he promised “regained confidence in the Party.” In his 1987 book Perestroika Gorbachev presented himself as the preserver, not the destroyer, of socialism. No one was more surprised than Gorbachev when the Soviet regime disintegrated, and when he was swept out of power.

The only man who foresaw the Soviet collapse and implemented policies to bring it about was Ronald Reagan. During his first term Reagan pursued tough anti-Soviet policies aimed at curtailing the Soviet nuclear threat and stopping Soviet advances around the world. Calling the Soviets an “evil empire,” Reagan initiated a massive defense buildup. He deployed Pershing and Cruise missiles in Europe. He sent weapons and other assistance to anticommunist guerrillas fighting for self-determination in Soviet satellites like Afghanistan, Angola and Nicaragua. He announced a new program of missile defenses that would eventually “make nuclear weapons obsolete.”

These measures were fiercely resisted by liberal Democrats, who decried Reagan’s policies as confrontational and likely to make nuclear war more likely. Historian Barbara Tuchman spoke for many liberals when she urged that the West ingratiate itself with the Soviet Union by pursuing “the stuffed-goose option—that is, providing them with all the grain and consumer goods they need.” If Reagan had taken this advice when it was offered in 1982, the Soviet empire would probably be around today.

Reagan’s military buildup and his missile defense program threatened the Soviets with an arms race they could ill afford. The Reagan doctrine of aid to anticommunist guerrillas halted Soviet advances in the Third World: between 1980 and 1985 not an inch of real estate fell into Moscow’s hands and one small country, Grenada, reverted into the democratic camp. Thanks to Stinger missiles supplied by the United States, Afghanistan rapidly became what the Soviets themselves would later call a “bleeding wound.”

Clearly the Politburo saw that the momentum in the cold war had dramatically shifted. After 1985, the Soviets seem to have decided on a new course. It was Reagan, in other words, who was responsible for thwarting Soviet gains and introducing a loss of nerve that contributed to the elevation of Gorbachev to power. Gorbachev’s policies were responses to circumstances created not by him but by Reagan. No wonder that Ilya Zaslavsky, who served in the Congress of People’s Deputies, said later that the true originator of glasnost and perestroika was not Gorbachev but Reagan.

Reagan immediately recognized Gorbachev as a new breed of Soviet leader. He supported Gorbachev’s reforms and arms control initiatives during his second term, when many conservatives criticized him for being naïve and credulous. William F. Buckley, Jr. warned that Reagan’s new stance was “on the order of changing our entire position toward Adolf Hitler.” Columnist George Will mourned that Reagan had “accelerated the moral disarmament of the West by elevating wishful thinking to the status of political philosophy.”

These criticisms missed the larger current of events that Reagan alone appears to have understood. In attempting to reform communism, Gorbachev was destroying the system. Reagan encouraged him every step of the way; as Gorbachev himself joked, Reagan induce him to take the Soviet Union to the edge of the abyss and then take “one step forward.”

The tears of joy with which millions greeted the collapse of the Soviet empire proved that Reagan was entirely justified in calling it an “evil empire.” Even some of who were previously skeptical of Reagan were compelled to admit that they had been wrong and Reagan’s approach had been thoroughly vindicated. Reflecting on Reagan’s complex strategy of initial toughness toward the Soviet Union—in the face of denunciation from liberals—and later support for Gorbachev—in the face of criticism from conservatives—Henry Kissinger called it “the most stunning diplomatic achievement of the modern era.”

Margaret Thatcher composed Reagan’s epitaph when she said that “he won the cold war without firing a shot.” That’s how history will remember him. On the anniversary’s of the Berlin Wall’s collapse, we should do Reagan the honor of recognizing his prescient leadership that helped to produce that marvelous event.

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About The Author
Dinesh D'Souza's new book Life After Death: The Evidence is published by Regnery.
 
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Speaking as a diehard liberal...
I don't think there is any doubt that Ronnie R played a huge part in the downfall of communism. But what really caused its downfall was a number of influential people being in the right place at the right time combined with the will of the people behind the Iron Curtain - a perfect storm if you will. Without Ronnie, it probably wouldn't have happened, for sure, but it certainly wouldn't have happened without Gorby. Taking a view on the whole, it is probably fair to say that Gorby was more important - had Russia chosen yet another hard liner instead of him Ronnie would have done and said exactly the same thing - but the outcome would likely have been different. Yet again D'Souza sets up his argument by saying that "some people" are downplaying Ronnie's role, just as he did in his earlier column this week when he said that "some peeople" blame Hitler's evil on his alleged christianity. Well I haven't heard anyone say either of these things, apart from D'Souza... I hate to use the phrase because it's one of the worst, but both of these columns are set up using a straw man...

As A Fellow Brit...
..with similar political leanings to CB it does pain me to say it but our own bete noir of the 80's Mrs Thatcher should probably also take some credit for Communism's downfall.

vespanat
Agreed, although it pains me too...

Catalogues
The joke among my friends was that the Wall fell because West Germany started lobbing catalogues over it. Once the Proles on the other side of the Wall got a good look at the stuff available on the other side of the wall, that was the end of Sacrifice For The Common Good. The shoals of abandoned Trabants (the last iteration of the Smart Car, trying to force the Proles to restrict themselves to shabby, underpowered, unreliable tiny machines For The Good of All) that were raplaced by real machinery was Exhibit A.

The same revolution is at work in China as we speak. You start flooding the country with Catalogues, and the Proles are no longer satisfied to live in huge, featureless buildings crammed close together, in tiny little apartments with not a view of the landscape (well, except in Canada where they will pay $300,000 for these) or to shamble to work on foot or on bicycles in driving snowstorms -- especially while Their Betters whiz by in limousines and live in McMansions.

Yes, all the posturing and preening by the big boys with the guns was the weakening of the Wall. But what brought it down was the Internet -- and catalogues.

I Seem To Remember..
...David Hasselhoff claiming some of the credit too!!! Having him perform at the nations celebration at having thrown off the yoke of Soviet oppression did seem in rather dubious taste to me at the time but each to their own I suppose!!!

CB,Vespanat
I, for one think Ms. Thatcher was a great leader. I also believe that as her friendship of Reagan was well-known, it didn't matter to her if she took any credit. Smart people know that she is well-deserving and I think you take it a bit personally, that D'Souza leaves her out. Don't.
I was there in East Berlin right before that speech Reagan gave. The oppression and lack of any livelihood among the people was so disheartening. No one looked me in the eye, the shelves of stores were practically empty. Cars were run on mo-gas...But, it was a great day for the world when that first piece was broken forever, even if everyone didn't see it that way.

AudiR10
I agree wholeheartedly with you - paying a month's wages for a pair of Yankee blue jeans must get you down after a while. But I wonder how the internet played its part - this was 1989, and although I was only 17 at the time I don't recall there being much internet activity!!

The peace dividend is spent...
I'm not so blinkered that I can't see that much of the economic miracle of the Clinton presidency wasn't at least partially a result of the end of the Cold War and Ronald Reagan. Far greater brains than mine have made that conclusion - hence we have enjoyed what is often called the "peace dividend". Makes you wonder what the cost of the Iraq war will one day be called - the "conflict rights issue"? Just think how things might be if that few trillion-odd dollars was sloshing around the economy rather than being spent on grandiose neo-con follies...

I Think It Was....
...more to do with the advent of satellite television which the East German authorities had trouble regulating. People there saw what a comparatively 'great time' we in the West were having and presumably wanted some of the action.
To be fair, bizarrely enough, the man Hasselhoff possibly did play his part in this!!!
To paraphrase Norm McDonald "Germans love David Hasselhoff"!!!
Mrs Thatcher may have appeared impressive on the international stage but it was not much fun living in Blighty, particularly my little corner of it, when she was in power. Whether she was a 'necessary evil' is for greater economic and historical minds than mine to debate but the 80's are not regarded fondly by many I know.

If you haven't already seen it
"The Lives of Others" is an excellent movie, and timely. I have many colleagues who believe that if America became more "egalitarian" (mutual misery), there wouldn' t be crime! This logic hails from the pit of hell, but is myopically adhered to just the same. Its also no surprise that my socialist minded friends are big Hillary supporters.

Complex issue
The causes of the fall of the wall are complex, but Reagan's role was pivotal. I've read interviews with former Soviet leaders who said that when he called them the Evil Empire, it really gave them pause. For once, they started looking at themselves through the prism of western perception.

Gorby's Perestroika and Glasnost allowed people to finally realize that they were not alone in their feelings of disdain for the Party. An undercurrent of dissatisfaction grew into a tidal wave. While this happened moreso in the Satellite countries in Eastern Europe where they still had some memory of a pre-soviet life, it also happened in Russia. The blood spilled in Afghanistan was salt in the wound.

Finally, Reagan's SDI scared to Soviet old guard. They were in such awe of our technological superiority, they thought for sure we'd bury them both economically and militarily.

Many dominoes had to fall for it all to happen, but Reagan, with the support of one of the grandest ladies of history, Margaret Thatcher, saw the fragility of the Soviet system because he understood that it was a house of cards in the first place.

The Left, who gave spiritual support to the epitome of leftism, never understood that the system they coveted could never work any more than a parasite can exist without a host. The entire Marxist system depends on having someone to produce from whom they can expropriate. In the USSR, production was at a virtual standstill. It would have toppled eventually, but with death throes that could have engulfed the world in a terrible conflict. Reagan created a scenario that made them hesitate long enough for the collapse to happen.


the troika
Ronald Reagan, Lady Thatcher, and his Holiness Pope John-Paul II combined in a punch that the USSR couldn't survive.

Reagan provided the resources from a distance. Lady Thatcher provided the political and military support within the local wavering nations (the Falklands showed that Britain did not roll over and take it, and the USA was just too far from Europe and nobody cared about tussles along Alaska/Kamchatka). His Holiness provided the moral support to undercut those who would aid and abet by claiming the moral high ground for communism.

Apologies if I got the capitalizations wrong, and it's time to go to work so I can't respond to further questions/comments for many hours.

Critical Bill writes:
AudiR10
I agree wholeheartedly with you - paying a month's wages for a pair of Yankee blue jeans must get you down after a while. But I wonder how the internet played its part - this was 1989, and although I was only 17 at the time I don't recall there being much internet activity!!

You libs just cannot bring yourselves to admit Reagan was right and Jimmy Carter was wrong. Hey it wasn't Col Tibits and the Enola Gay which ended WWII with a nuclear weapon it was those glossy advertisements in the NY Times. You all just sicken me. You are not worth the protection provided by the brave men and women in uniform. If you all love communism so damn much why not move to a communist country? There are plenty out there willing to take you in!

One more player!
Pope John Paul helped get the ball rolling when he supported Solidarity in Poland. People have no problem giving Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin credit for saving the West in WWII why is there so much aingst over Ronald Reagan?

Dinesh says:
"He sent weapons and other assistance to anticommunist guerrillas fighting for self-determination in Soviet satellites like Afghanistan..."

i.e. - bin Laden! And let's not forget he sent weapons to Iran - THANKS RONNIE! How many miss the civilized Cold War as against our battle with Islamic savages who refuse the rules of engagement (unlike our Soviet counterparts)? Reagan may helped undo the Russians, but in the balance, he built up Islamic terrorists - who, if you believe Bush and his Warpublican lackies, are a FAR greater threat to OUR VERY EXISTENCE! In fact, on any given day, Warpublican after Warpublican spews right in these TownHall pages that we're in a battle for Western Civilization.

And Reagan is the man you honor?

Great, we can celebrate 9/11 in his name...

How soon we forget....
C_Miner comes closest in his analysis, giving credit to Thatcher and Pope John Paul, in addition to Reagan (and Gorbachev by implication). Yet there was one man who in the late 1970's and early 1980's triggered all the subsequent events in Eastern Europe - Lech Walesza. (Also, let's not forget that at the margins Helmut Kohl in West Germany was a strong ally). The 1980's truly were a fortunate confluence of events and coincidences (whoda thunk a POLISH Pope!).

Of course, if you talk to the Nobel Peace Prize committee, they think that Gorbachev gets 100% of the credit and prevailed despite the warmongers Reagan and Thatcher.

Critical Bill writes:
The peace dividend is spent...

There never was any peace dividend so to speak. Much of the money was borrowed to begin with and needed to be paid back. In todays dollars WWII cost this country over 5 Trillion dollars. Was it wasted? Should have we cut a deal with Hitler and Tojo just to save the money? The surge is working, Saddam and sons are dead and the world is a better place without him. As of clinton the rise of radical islam took off under your hero bill.

More CB nonsense
"...Makes you wonder what the cost of the Iraq war will one day be called - the "conflict rights issue"? Just think how things might be if that few trillion-odd dollars was sloshing around the economy rather than being spent on grandiose neo-con follies..."


Yeah right. What exactly would be different? Specifically, what would be better? Lower unemployment (consistently at levels below the Clinton 'go-go' years)? Higher wages (total compensation has outpaced inflation during the Bush years)? Lower tax rates (resulting in record revenues to the government)? Government budget deficit (currently well below the 30-year average as a percentage of GDP)? Productivity (currently at record levels)? Inflation (under control despite high oil prices)? Recessions (the last serious recession occurred during the Carter years)? Stock market (virtually unbroken uptrend since 1981, currently within a few percent of all time highs). Defense spending (even with the Iraq war costs, defense spending as both a percentage of GDP and the federal budget is below its 50-year average). Heck, with the Bush tax RATE cuts the rich are paying an even higher percentage of income taxes, liberal lies notwithstanding.

Socialists/liberals (i.e. economic ignoranuses)such as CB consistently see doom and gloom no matter how rosy the economic reality, unless their ilk are in power. The fact is, the American economy during the Bush years has fared as well as or better than the Clinton economy, which was also excellent. All of this is built on the Reagan economic reforms jolting us out of Carter's incompetent malaise. Thank God that the fictional world of despair that socialists/liberals paint is just that - fictional.

MLicking Dogg
Back under a new monicker, eh? Just can't resist demonstrating to everyone how abjectly ignorant (and proud of this fact) you are, eh?

Roadkill
I guess it has been a long week for you. It's Friday, you're tired and in need of the r&r the weekend brings. Rest well, it must be very energy-sapping being so angry the whole time.

A couple of points before you blow a gasket and do yourself some real damage - your first post of the day is so bonkers as to be almost unanswerable. What, you were logging on to the net in 1989? Whoa, we have a computer genius in our midst who was using the net before it was opened!! As I said before, you need some professinal help.

Secondly, the term "peace dividend" only became popularised by Thatcher and GHWB and referred specifically to the economic benefits of reduced military spending after the end of the Cold War. And as I said, Reagan desserves much of the credit for that even though it did not manifest itself fully until Clinton's tenure. What is your problem? Apart from finding reading difficult. Read my first post, the first post on this thread, where I acknowledged the part Reagan played in the end of the Cold War.

Reagan, Thatcher, and.....
Don't forget the Pope John Paul II's visit to Poland in 1979. The moral support and courage that he imparted to the captive peoples of his own Poland and the rest of Eastern Europe was not insignificant in the struggle to overthrow the godless and amoral communists. Indeed, we are very fortunate to have had such giants as Reagan, Thatcher and John Paul come onto the world stage at the same time and, to paraphrase a trite and stupid liberal platitude that actually is appropriate here, "speak truth to power". Or as Peggy Noonan said in her beautifully written column following President Reagan's death, he shocked the world by calling the Soviet Union "evil" because it was, and an "empire" because it was that too. Prime Minister Thatcher and Pope John Paul shared those convictions, and together help Reagan to supply the moral clarity that ultimately led to liberation for hundreds of millions of people.

Buzzkat
The US economy is indeed incredibly resilient, to the point that Bush has been able to spend thousands of bilions of dollars on this war. But those dollars for the most part belong to China, not to the US. This is a "buy now, pay later" scheme, and if the value of the dollar is anything to go by it is gong to cost an awful lot more by the time it all plays out. I was speculating about what it will be called in the future, not what is happening now. Truth be told I don't know what would be different - but I find it hard to believe that borrowing trillions of dollars to pay for this war will be seen as sound economics. Again, you choose to ignore what I said about Reagan, such is your rage against liberals. I did point out that the "peace dividend" was largely his doing - see my response to that nutter Roadkill. Still, you've got the biggest government ever - that's what you all wanted, right?

According to Defense Secretary
Robert Gates(among others), part of the credit for the collapse of the Soviet Union goes to Jimmy Carter, who sowed the seeds of freedom with his human rights positions even with America-friendly dictators like the Shah and Somoza.

>It was Carter, with encouragement from Brzezinski, who exploited the Helsinki agreement as a way of giving support to the dissidents inside Russia, inside the Czech Republic and Poland.
Al Haig said at a Trilateral Commission meeting— in response to a Japanese questioner, he said, human rights, we’re not going to fuss with that. That’s Carter. We’re going to have a different policy.
So I would give Reagan great credit for putting the Russians on the defensive on human rights. But he building on a base that Jimmy Carter had laid.<

Of course admitting that would require honesty, something D'Souza lacks.



ho, hum...
Yes, Reagan played a part in it, but so did many others and it is wrong to place the lion’s share of credit into a single person’s hands. The wall fell because Communism doesn’t work. In the end, you either play along with the free world or you slowly starve to death (figuratively) in isolation. With each passing your, it takes greater and greater effort to maintain communist control while a system like ours (political and economic) roll on and on under their own power. Countries like China move closer and closer to us with each passing year. They are not our enemy any more. In fact, I believe they would go to great lengths to prevent any disruption in our economy as they want to continue to milk us as much as possible. What’s left, Cuba, a pathetic island that‘s never known a thing other than poverty; or N. Korea, a place of cold barren starvation. They may pose a threat, but nothing like the former Soviet Union and the old Communist China.

Like I said, D’Souza is nothing but a court panegyrist. His entire propose is to think of more ways to tell how great you are.

interesting re-writes
Pancho and MikeR are doing a good job of re-writing history. Communism was seen as a historic inevitability, which is why John Paul II was vital to the Troika. Carter agreed that capitalism was on the way out (after all, the Republicans before him had enacted price controls, so there was no hope for the free market), and Dinesh shows the result of Carter's lack of action in the years preceding Reagan. I disagree with Mike because it took active opposition to bring the Soviet Union down. Because Thatcher and Reagan had shown in other locations that they were willing to have their countries fight to support their beliefs, the USSR knew it couldn't bluff it's way out and had to try to compete in production. That is where communism fails: in actually producing for its citizens. When it came to Potemkin villages, communism couldn't be beat.

As an aside to Mike, I think that China will either have a political revolution within 10 years or will fall economically. Economic liberalization brings about demands for more choices in other fields, and I don't think that the politbureau will be willing to grant them.

5000 years of reality

The socialist/communist system of Eastern Europe and USSR fell for exactly the same reason American liberalism is headed for the ash heap of history: the utter failure to understand human nature.


any ideology which seeks to "equalize" everyone--regardless of talent, ambition, intelligence,etc., is doomed.

Don't blame me
>Pancho and MikeR are doing a good job of re-writing history.<

I just quoted the current Sec of Defense. If you feel Gates is re-writing history, make him your target. I'm sure you know more about the historical implications of the era than someone who was intimately involved with geo-political manuevers that were occurring.

Either that or you're just a partisan hack who refuses to objectively analyze real events.

The Feckless Jimmy Carter
Jimmy Carter should be given credit for encouraging the Resistance in Poland with his support of human rights but he had to change his opinion of the Russians when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan.

Jimmy Carter stated
"My opinion of the Russians has changed most drastically in the last week than even the previous two and a half years before that. It's only now dawning upon the world the magnitude of the action that the Soviets undertook in invading Afghanistan."

Ronald Reagan knew well the nature of the Soviet Union from the start. It was an Evil Empire.

C_Miner
Your prediction about China is most likely. Demand will increase until one or the other takes place.

Otherwise, how have I re-written history? Reagan did his part but not without building on the actions of others. I’ll grant him his due, his actions hastened the fall but I’m not going to make a Saint George out of him. My point is that even if Reagan never existed, the Soviets wouldn’t be able to hold on forever for the reasons you’ve given.

Al: I couldn’t agree more. Your inferiority should preclude you from even thinking you can comment here. Why don’t you just sit down and wait for your ‘betters’ to tell you what to think and do.

Al
You are exactly right. GOD BLESS AMERICA

Where?
>Dinesh shows the result of Carter's lack of action in the years preceding Reagan.<

Carter's name is mentioned nowhere in the article. The only reference that you could possibly be referring to is:

"Between 1974 and 1980, while the U.S. wallowed in post-Vietnam angst, 10 countries fell into the Soviet orbit: South Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, South Yemen, Angola, Mozambique, Ethiopia, Nicaragua, Grenada and Afghanistan."

If memory serves, '74, '75, '76 the US was led by Nixon/Ford administrations. Perhaps the May '75 Mayaguez incident in Cambodia rings a bell, where eighteen Marines and airmen were killed or missing in the assault and withdrawal from Kho-Tang. Twenty-three others were killed in a helicopter crash en route from Hakhon Phanom to U-Tapao.
Does D'Souza point out that Ford failed to confront Cambodia other than to retrieve the Mayaguez?

Critical Bill
I have heard a lot of liberals deny that Reagan had anything to do with the demise of the Soviet Union. In fact, most give Gorbachev the credit and dismiss Reagan as a bystander to history. One guy even told me that the Soviet Union would have collapsed if Elle McPherson had been president. This is no "straw-man" argument simply because it is an argument YOU don't make.

marxbrothers
Well, I have never seen it written or heard it said, and believe me, I've trawled plenty of liberal chat... it's a ridiculous argument to make, even if it is possible to argue over the size of his role. It certainly wasn't a one-man show. I don't think (and I haven't read all of the posts so I could be wrong) any liberal poster here has denied his part. I understand there are deranged people on both side of the political fence, but "some people" still isn't much of an argument. Some people believe they have been abducted by aliens - that doesn't mean anyone should take any notice of them...

For CB and vespanat
You also need to give the commies some (dis)"credit" for their own downfall--as their entire system never lived up to the soundness of a house-of-cards.

svpallava..
..I would certainly agree that the Commie system was doomed to failure but would say that Reagan (and Hasselhoff!!) played a part in hastening it's demise.

svpallava
I agree with vespanat - the Hoff drank the Soviet Bloc dry. They had no choice but to pull the Wall down. They wanted a drink!

Carter/Reagan
There is simply a vast difference between Power and Influence. Both President's had Power. Influence reposes in the mostly unseen and offstage processes. What is interesting is Reagan's prescient speech of 1981. In the largest
sense, Communism always fails because it doesn't
work, not because it is defeated. Largely, it is
a huge promise, sounding wonderful, until people
actually have to live with it. It also personifies deification, albeit at a secular level, with its insistence on lionization of
the mass. People don't believe that, and ultimately will refuse to live in lies. Spending
money on star wars forced a bankrupt USSR to
confront its insolvency?

On the collective
If you really want to understand the genesis of any Communist state, rent the movie where Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney look excitedly at each other and gush "Let's put on a play!".

my 2 cents
The wall was built on hate

And it collapsed of its own weight

Slippery CB - Part 1
Don't change the subject and don't try to weasel out of what you wrote.

"...Again, you choose to ignore what I said about Reagan, such is your rage against liberals..."

I did not mention at all your comments on Reagan vis a vis the fall of the Soviet Union, I concentrated on your economic pronouncements, which create a mythical world of their own. Yes, you did give credit to Reagan, giving him second place behind Gorbachev, which is debatable, as Reagan was proactive whereas Gorbachev was forced by circumstance to be reactive. Note that you made no mention of Maggie Thatcher (whom I remember you have attacked viciously in long ago posts) until you were called out nor of Pope John Paul, thereby betraying your narrow comprehension of historical events.


"...Just think how things might be if that few trillion-odd dollars was [sic] sloshing around the economy rather than being spent on grandiose neo-con follies..."

This tortured example of the Queen's English is most properly construed as present tense.



Slippery CB - Part 2
"...But those dollars for the most part belong to China, not to the US. This is a "buy now, pay later" scheme, and if the value of the dollar is anything to go by it is gong to cost an awful lot more by the time it all plays out..."


Nonsense. In a floating currency market, currencies adjust up or down. There is nothing inherently good or bad in an absolute sense either with a high dollar or low dollar, partisan nonsense on both ends of the spectrum notwithstanding. Some sectors of the economy perform well with a high dollar, others perform well with a low dollar. This is a fact of life in a free market. Currencies will continue to fluctuate, up and down. Big deal.

As for the statement, "the dollars belong to China not the U.S.", more gobbledeygook. This meaningless statement is something that Lewis Carroll could come up with for Alice in Wonderland. Trade is trade; dollars get exchanged for goods via millions of INDIVIDUAL deals, with both parties benefitting.



Slippery CB - Part 3
"....Still, you've got the biggest government ever - that's what you all wanted, right?..."

No argument with the first part of this statement. George Bush and the Republican Congress on domestic spending policy betrayed every conservative/libertarian principle in the book. Makes one wonder why socialists/libs hate him so; he has been their best friend! No, it is not what WE wanted, hence, the 2006 election results (which the dem/libs one by thinnest of margins, their nonsensical declarations of a "mandate" to the contrary).

The Iraq War is slowly but surely being won. Al Qaeda's back is broken in Iraq, the fraternal war between Sunnis and Shiites is ending, and the society is slowly getting back to a semblance of normalcy. Not that this is being reported on those paragons of objectivity such as BBC and CNN.

History WILL record the Iraq War as a positive event for civilization on balance. The alternative such as it would stand today - Saddaam Hussein consolidating his power and increasingly harboring terrorists, continuing to pursue WMDs, all UN sanctions lifted - will be recognized by future historians as far worse, as it is by sober, objective observers today.

The Berlin Wall Fell Because
Reagan jacked up Gorbachev and called him out!

All Jimmy Carter ever did was grab his ankles!

woa there Buzzkat
Like Roadkill, you have obviously had a bad week. Don't fret, the weekend is coming! You get a lie in and can recharge the batteries! Hope you watched Ben Bernanke yesterday - he was plenty bullish about the US economy, wasn't he? Fannie Mae going to the dogs today, GM as good as bankrupt. Bernanke made me sound like Neal Cavuto. So if the dollars being used to pay for the war in Iraq are borrowed, whose are they? And they don't ever have to be repaid? If you are to be believed, this has no possible downside and the US economy is iron-clad regardless of the economic recklessness of the current administration. I just don't believe that. You are the one living in Wonderland - your head is so buried in the sand and your desire to bash liberals and believe Fox Business News makes you completely detatched from reality.

pancho
What exactly that Al wrote about liberalism/socialism (NOT classical liberalism, which is about empowering the individual) is wrong? Despite every single lesson in history, socialists still do not understand that a nanny state simply does not work, that free bread and circuses stolen from the producers for the masses inevitably destroy a society, that Nazi Germany and Communist Russia are the logical endpoints of runaway socialism. Apparently you hve not learned the lessons of history.

CB
Unlike you, I deal in facts. Nor do I whine, complain, and preach doom and gloom, which is the natural state of socialist liberals such as yourself.

Have a nice day!

buzzkat
I hope you are right about Iraq, I sincerely do. But Iraq won't become a secular democracy, not in my lifetime or yours, although it might, just might, become an islamic "democracy". What that means exactly I don't know. Maybe the surge is working, I don't know, but at this stage there is as little certainty about the longer term outcome as there ever was.

Critical Bill - internet
My comment was poorly worded -- you are right that the internet did not exist as it is now, back then; the internet is, however, working hard to defeat communism in Canada (where certain American television stations are still illegal because the CRTC is frightened of them, but the internet remains a source of the truth for embattled Kanukskis) and North Korea, China, Cuba and Africa.

buzzkat
You don't whine? You don't complain? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... sorry, that made me laugh so much. You are one sorry whiny complaining little turd. My seven week old boy whines and complains less. But then he's more of a man than you so I shouldn't be surprised.

buzzkat
OK, maybe that was a bit harsh. He is a very good little boy though. As it happens, I'm not a socialist - have worked in the markets since I left university, man and boy. In fact, I'd say I'm a long way from being a socialist - maybe a compassionate capitalist. But you do whine and complain every bit as much as I do - normally about what I write. Maybe I just bring out the worst in you... have a good weekend...

for Roadkill58
Roadkill58 writes: "Pope John Paul helped get the ball rolling when he supported Solidarity in Poland. "

In fact, it's now known that Reagan and the Pope collaborated in this and coordinated their covert aid to Poland. The CIA supplied aid from America and of course the Pope could work thru the Polish Church.

And of course, Reagan worked closely with Maggie Thatcher. So this really was a combined anti-Soviet alliance, not the Pope working independently.

for Roadkill58
Roadkill58 writes: " Churchill, and Stalin credit for saving the West in WWII why is there so much aingst over Ronald Reagan?"

Because the Left despises Reagan for having also ideologically discredited socialism generally and ushering in the new age of global capitalism. They not only hate Reagan for that, but they hate Milton Friedman for that too. It was remarkable to see how many Leftists on these left-wing blogs like DailyKOS were actually cheering when they heard that Milton Friedman had passed away.

Remember: The Left weren't opposed to the USSR because it was socialist. They were opposed to it because it was a dictatorship. They always dreamed of "democratic socialism"--and many still do.

Reagan put an end to their dream. And for that, they will never forgive him.



for MikeR
MikeR writes: "The wall fell because Communism doesn’t work."

None of the sophisticates believed that AT THE TIME.

Here are some of what they were saying back then:


The Liberal View of the USSR
Any time a modern liberal tells you that they "always knew" that collapse of the USSR was "inevitable" (and hence Reagan had nothing to do with it), give him the following quotes:

"The Soviet Union....deploys conventional forces in Afghanistan that no responsible
military analyst believes we can challenge, and is also a nuclear
superpower that cannot be eliminated, as Hitler’s Reich was, and with whom we therefore have no choice but to coexist as best we can."
-- George McGovern, 1980

"The Soviet Union has embarked on a new period of expansion."
-- Zbigniew Brzezinski, Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser, 1980

"Those in the United States who think the Soviet Union is on the verge of economic and social collapse are wishful thinkers who are only kidding themselves."
-- Arthur Schlesinger, 1982

"What counts is results, and there can be no doubt that the Soviet
planning system has been a powerful engine for economic growth.... The
Soviet model has surely demonstrated that a command economy is capable
of mobilizing resources for rapid growth."
-- Paul Samuelson, "Economics," the standard introductory textbook

"That the Soviet system has made great material progress in recent years is evident both from the statistics and from the general urban scene....
One sees it in the appearance of solid well-being of the people on the streets...and the general aspect of restaurants, theaters, and shops....Partly, the Russian system succeeds because, in contrast with the Western industrial economies, it makes full use of its manpower."
-- John Kenneth Galbraith, 1984

The USSR collapsed 7 years later.

CB
Well, CB, this die-hard conservative appreciates your comments and humor. :)

The poor thing about this column is that it doesn't acknowledge (and publish) the specific failures of Carter and the culpability he holds for increasing the Cold War.

MikeR - 1
... makes the argument D'Souza is refuting. I don't know how old you are, MikeR, but even many people who were sentient beings before 1981 have forgotten that America and the West did not have Reagan's optimism in the 1970s -- in fact, the West had reached its nadir vis-a-vis the Soviet Union in that decade, and pessimism was ascendant.

In the years from 1945 to 1981 (indeed, from 1919 to 1981), America and the West did not win a single confrontation with the Soviet Union. "Containment" did not contain the expansion of predatory international Marxism -- it merely slowed it down. Reagan did not build on the longstanding policy of containment, because there was nothing to build on. Containment was a LOSING POLICY.

Reagan REVERSED both America's policy and the progress of global Communist expansion. Things were going one direction when he entered office, and he changed that direction. One of the biggest things he did -- which people have forgotten, or even attributed to Gorbachev -- was propose a drastic reduction in nuclear arsenals, a proposal he made in 1981. America's cognoscenti of nuclear arms negotiation pilloried him as a fool for this proposal.

But he made it himself, four years before Gorbachev regurgitated it back to him, because he saw that America's longstanding policy on nuclear arms needed to be REVERSED.

MikeR - 2
If Reagan built on anything, it was technology development and military procurement, which gave him the tools -- Pershing II missiles, cruise missiles, evolving military doctrines -- to convince Soviet planners that NATO force would be increasingly unbeatable in Central Europe. The availability of those tools can indeed be attributed to Reagan's predecessors.

But his predecessors were largely unwilling to do the one thing that mattered, with these tools: deploy them. Reagan did all the key things differently. That's why he won in less than one decade the war the West had been losing, when he entered office, for more than six.

Reagan, Thatcher and John Paul II
Also took every opportunity to remind people verbally that the government of the Soviet Union lacked any shred of legitimacy. Because it wasn't elected.

That was easily as important as economic and military manuevering. Peoples of the free and communist worlds BOTH needed constant reminders that the Kremlin was illegitimate. It gave the people inside the Iron Curtain hope when they heard Reagan say such things.

Which is one of the reasons I cringe when I hear any conservative, liberal, or libertarian use the word "sovereign" when talking about Saddam's Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea or China.

If you believe that legitimate authority ONLY derives from the consent of the governed and is expressed by elections with secret ballots, a free press, and more than one political party to choose from, then you should NEVER use the word "sovereign" to discuss a government that does none of those things.

For example...
"National Review" in a past issue pointed out that neither they, nor Bush, Australia or Britain refer to the country sometimes called "Myanmar". They call it Burma.

I don't call it Myanmar either.

The cruel military dictatorship there took it upon themselves to rename the country. They weren't elected, they aren't legitimate, and they are a human rights nightmare.

Calling it Burma is a subtle way of saying you do not recognize that dictatorship's authority as legitimate.

Calling it Myanmar is a sort of subtle, politically correct way of legitimizing that government. Remember that the next time you hear it refered to as such by NPR or CNN.

For if a military junta seized control of THIS country, confiscated all weapons, suspended elections, and renamed us "The People's Republic of America", how many of you would earnestly start calling it that?

Critical Bill
"Taking a view on the whole, it is probably fair to say that Gorby was more important - had Russia chosen yet another hard liner instead of him Ronnie would have done and said exactly the same thing - but the outcome would likely have been different."

Not necessarily. Reagan was goading the Soviet Union into trying to spend to keep up militarily with the U.S. Even without Gorbechev, the USSR would have eventually collapsed spending its economy, already in shambles, into the ground on the arms race.


Critical Bill
"Yet again D'Souza sets up his argument by saying that "some people" are downplaying Ronnie's role..."

Some people, liberals, were downplaying Regan's role and still are. I heard that liberal charge repeated several times during the day and days after Regan's death and funeral in the media. So it isn't a strawman argument at all.

"But I wonder how the internet played its part - this was 1989, and although I was only 17 at the time I don't recall there being much internet activity!!"

You're not serious are you? The reason you don't recall there being much internet activity at the time is because it didn't exist.

Critical Bill
I responded you your defense of Bush is autistic argument on Limbaugh's article, Time For GOP Backbone And Leadership.

SteveL
I don’t know what any modern liberal will tell you they “always knew”; but both D’Souza and I are evaluating the past and making judgments with hindsight. I have never made the claim that I knew all along. When I was a child, I felt certain that the ‘Russians’ would drop the H-bomb and that we would all die because my father refused to build a shelter in our back yard. Later on, I knew that if we pulled out of Viet Nam, the Chi-coms would take Taiwan and the Soviets would march across Europe. I was wrong, of course. As I grew older I found a greater faith in the future, but I never knew when or if the Soviet Union would fall. If I had, I would have written about it and been famous now.

Here’s food for thought. A strong healthy person can survive hard times better than a weak person. For Reagan to be the Dragon Slayer, the USSR would have to be strong and vibrant, healthy and robust. Is that how you would describe them in the early ‘80s?

My Letter to the Editor
*Sep 1, 1992 Los Angeles Times

Who won the cold war

Mr. Dennis said he conducted a 100 interviews with “… leaders, journalists, intellectuals and ordinary citizens,…” and determined that the US did not win the Cold War. I wonder if he talked to more than one “citizen.”

I have talked to far more than 100 ordinary citizens during my trips (both before and after the Cold War) in Yugoslavia, former East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and most other European countries, and I can assure you that they were almost unanimous in giving credit to the US, and to Presidents Reagan and Bush, for the return of freedom to Eastern Europe.

It proves again that speaking to journalists and intellectuals to learn about the political health of a country, is like going to a Doctor for a physical exam, and he only looks at your armpits!

------------

Here's what I call a Snippet.

During the late ‘30s and early ‘40s, a few men, at the head of state, turned Germany into the most hated nation in the world, and for the next 40 years the East Germans were brainwashed by their liberal-left government.

But isn’t it wonderful to observe how fleeting and how superficial that brainwashing was. The ideas of freedom are so ingrained in human nature, no debriefing or retraining was needed when the Berlin Wall fell. They knew instinctively how freedom works.


internet in 1989
Funny, I remember using bulletin boards and Compuserve while in high school in the mid to late 80's. If you mean that immediate porn access wasn't available in 1989 you're correct. The foundations for information retrieval were in place though.

Thanks SteveL, dyerje and Citizen Carrier for answering the questions posed to me when I had to get back to work. Reagan's main impact in fighting communism was public optimism and a refusal to agree that communism was an inevitability. The collapse came about when the enablers (see SteveL's list of Useful Idiots) were no longer in positions of power, and were ignored by the powerful.

dyerje
The only people I knew who didn’t have Reagan’s optimism were the folks with shallow faith and weak patriotism. They still exist today. You can find them by their comments. They’re the ones who do nothing but predict doom, the Apocalypse, the end of the US and communist victories throughout the world. But in truth, I can’t speak for anyone other than myself. I was optimistic then and I am optimistic now. I am always amazed at how easily the shallow gobble up platitudes. D’Souza’s career is telling shallow people who should have felt this way all along, how wonderful their country and God are.

As for your theory if “from 1919 to 1981…. America and the West did not win a single confrontation with the Soviet Union.” Then they should have had us by the throat. After all, you are talking about 62 years of continuous victory. You say that throughout that period “containment merely slowed it down” then practically every country in the world must have been communist. Your statements must be at leas slight exaggerations since they don’t match the reality of the times. I don’t understand this need to put Reagan on such a pedestal. The man did good things, but he was just a man.

MikeR
"Countries like China move closer and closer to us with each passing year. They are not our enemy any more."

I wouldn't be to sure about that. They may not be threatening us militarily now, but they are just biding their time. China is not our friend.

Clay
The significant thing about Critical Bill and Vespanat is that they look back with regret that Reagan and Thatcher were at the helm when the wall/USSR collapsed. No Hoorays, but chagrin that freedom experienced a victory. This is the same attitude prevalent among the lefties vis a vis Iraq. They see any progress against the jihadis as a defeat. Doubtless these types will say the same kind of thing in the future, should Bush pull out some semblance of victory in Iraq. I can hear it now. It pains me to have to say Bush was president when Iraq stabilized into a representative govt, and became an inspirationleading to the downfall of other ME despots.

Clay
You’re right, they are not our friend and certainly not an ally, but it’s not like the old days. They got a taste of our money and they want more. Defeated nations can’t buy your stuff. Have you ever known a communist who wasn’t corrupt? The nature of the institution breeds corruption because it prevents people from rising honestly. They love money as much in not more than anyone else.

Critical Bill
Check out my response to your autistic theory about Bush to learn why you need to drop that theory.

MikeR
I certainly hope that your speculation that China's communist regime will crumble is right.

Oil Did It
my two cents here. Reagan (A Great American) knew that the USSR would collapse if and when they had no money to spend on domestic requirements - food, energy, etc.

Reagan did two things to bring about the collapse. First, he escalated SDI - Star Wars - so the Ruskies had to spend and spend in an attempt to keep up.

Second, he orchestrated a world-wide collapse of oil prices with Saudi Arabia leading the way - in 1986. USSR exports of oil - and the hard revenue it brought - dwindled to a trickle.

With almost no foreign exchange, because their oil was not worth much any more, and pressure to spend more and more on military and SDI research, the Russian people were ready to revolt.

Now, THAT is how to solve a world-wide problem. No shots fired, no armies involved, just genius at the top.

Would that somebody with those qualities would step forward for today's mess.

Oh, Bush has his moments...
If memory serves, North Korea was dragged back to the table by a simple boycotting of one of the foreign banks in Macao that served as North Korea's financial lifeline to the outside world.

Simple manuever. If you are a bank and you deal with North Korea, then we will not deal with you. And if you don't do business with America, then not many other people will do business with you either. Soon, you will refuse to do business with North Korea and every other bank will follow your lead, effectively cutting off NK from the world.

That single manuever against one bank was more effective than any sanction against North Korea so far.

MikeR
Your premises and conclusions are wrong, regarding the Soviet Union and the West during the Cold War.

First of all, regardless of how it sounds to you, the statement that the US and the West did not win a single contest with the Soviet Union in the period 1919 to 1981 is correct. I'm afraid it's you who may have swallowed platitudes on this subject.

But if you want to challenge the assertion, feel free to name one nation where the forces of Western liberalism defeated a Marxist takeover in this period.

Containment did not "contain," since the rule of Marxists was extended across more and more land area and millions more people with each decade. Containment's purpose was to PREVENT that spread; it did not. In some places, like southeast Asia, the policy of containment forced Marxists to fight for years to extend their rule, but since they accomplished their objective in the end, containment still failed.

Your statement that if this had really been the case, "everyone" would have been communist, is an emotional reaction, not one based on facts. Perhaps what's in your mind is that the United States was not attacked, during the Cold War.

"Containment," however, was not intended to prevent attack on the US -- our policies of strategic nuclear deterrence and 24/7 force alertment were what did that. Containment, per se, was intended to prevent precisely what it did NOT prevent: the expansion of Soviet-backed Marxist regimes across Asia, Europe, Africa, and the Americas.

A good, one-volume source of chapter and verse on Soviet and Soviet-sponsored expansion from the 1917 revolution to the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 is Brian Crozier's The Rise and Fall of the Soviet Empire.

One group of people
you won't find on the list of those who brought the Wall down are liberals. They had the same defeatist attitude towards opposing the USSR and continually appeased them and hampered our efforts in the Cold War. Good thing Reagan didn't listen to them and look what happened. Good thing Bush doesn't listen to them either.

Remember
Today, nearly 24 million (eight percent) of our countrymen are veterans. Of those, 33 percent served in Vietnam, 18 percent in the Gulf War, 14 percent in WWII and 13 percent in Korea. About three percent served in Iraq and Afghanistan and other counter-terrorism theaters. More than 25 percent of those veterans suffer some disability.

Please pause with us at 1100 EST this Sunday to pray for all our veterans.

Berlin Wall
It fell despite RR ridiculous star wars junk. It fell on the very day the USSR pulled out of Afghanistan. The war had bleed them dry, and of course, communism never gave them a successful economy anyway. D' suezas has the brain of a small ,stupid, drugged rodent.

What about Poles?
Soviet system was never accepted in Poland. In their resistance, Poles applied permanent pressure; however managed avoiding bloody revolution as in 1956 in Hungary.

In 1980, I wrote a book, "Could It Be Better in Poland?" (available only in Polish) describing unavoidability of the fall of the Soviet empire and speculating on possible scenarios. I was pretty close.

Establishing the Martial Law in Poland in December of 1981 was a proof of the bankruptcy of the Soviet model. Only blind, deaf, and completely misinformed still could believe that that system could survive.

As soon as it became apparent that Gorbachev might not use army against Poland in case of a political change, Poles worked out parliamentary way of transferring the power from communists. After democratic election in June 1989, practically Soviet supported communists lost power in Poland. Cosmetically, they still were a part of the new government, so it took a few months for people in other countries in the Soviet Bloc to realize what happened. By the end of summer 1989, the whole Eastern Europe started revolting, and the fall of the Berlin Wall was just an obvious consequence on the path opened by the democratic election in Poland in June 1989.

Who is hak?
Just in case someone new checks in.

HAK is my nick name here.

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com

A thrill
I still remember what a great thrill it was for me to watch the Berlin Wall fall. I recall also how much Reagan was criticized and ridiculed by the left in particular. It shows what one man with courage and foresight can do against a multitude of bullies. Never give in to the forces of evil and malevolence on the left. Le'Chaim.

Free Ramos and Compean

Reagan and Pope John Paul
Today it is common knowledge that Reagan and Pope John Paul respected and loved each other as brothers in Christ and both men help to work for the demise of the former Soviet Union.

Pope John Paul worked through the labour Union Solidarity to give the people hope that their desires for freedom could be realized. This is why the Russians hired a lone assassin to help take out Pope John Paul.

Similarily, Reagan called for Gorbachev to tear down the wall and banned companies like Toshiba who had furnished technology to the communists so that the Russians could not get the needed technology they needed in order to keep up with American and Europe.

With the advent of an annoucement of Reagans intent to build a Starwars or nuclear shield discouraged the Russians because no matter now much money they had they were unable to keep up with the americans technologically and militarily.

Maybe its a little easier for you to follow if I just say that Reagan and the great architect of the universe help design the plan. ehhh?????

Why the wall fell
re Why the Berlin Wall Fell
By Dinesh D'Souza
Friday, November 9, 2007

While agreeing with Reagan's influence, I'd must add the following factor: The lack of moral fervor in defense of communism from within.

As the Soviet empire tottered in 1989, we heard no modern Lenin’s crusading for communist ideals. Indeed, what was Russia’s reply to Ronald Reagan’s great “Evil Empire” speech? Nothing worth quoting.

Idealistic communists were just not to be found behind the Iron Curtain. In the end, it just proved impossible for the remaining communards in the world to manage a Eurasian empire from the confines of Berkeley, California.

To coin a phrase ... "Nothing is as weak as an idea whose time has passed."

Poland--
Even the communist officials in Poland attended Sunday Mass. communism was imposed on the Poles.

It is a shame that our liberal friends discounted the damage to Poland from the Russian Katyn massacre in which the future Polish leaders were killed.

Also, Franklin Roosevelt (communist sympathizer and fellow traveler) must bear grave responsibility for delivering eastern Europe to the communists.

tj is right on Poland
I lived a good chunk of my life in Poland under Soviet domination.

There were very few actual communists in Poland. People involved in government during that time were mostly opportunists. However, many honest anti-communists joined the government apparatus with a conviction, that with their presence there they could influence the bureaucracy to be more balanced and serve better the long-term interests of the Polish nation.

As you mentioned, Soviets killed in Katyn, and other places like that, several thousand of Polish intelligentsia. During the WWII, Nazi Germans had the same policy, targeting intelligentsia. BTW, Polish Jews, exterminated completely, were a big part of the Polish educated class. Many educated Poles escaped death during the WWII by emigrating, mostly to the U.S.

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com
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