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Thursday, September 18, 2008
Diana West :: Townhall.com Columnist
We Are Losing Europe to Islam
by Diana West
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With Wall Street convulsing, and the White House race intensifying, the question "Who lost Europe" is on no one's lips, let alone minds. Indeed, the question begs another: "Is Europe lost?"

The answer to the second question is, "No, not yet." And losing Europe, I would add, is by no means inevitable. But that doesn't mean the continent isn't currently hell-bent to accommodate the dictates of Islamic law, bit by increasingly larger bit. Such a course of accommodation, barring reversal, will only hasten Bernard Lewis' famous prediction that Europe will be Islamic by century's end.

And what do I mean by "accommodation"? Well, to take one tiny example, one snowflake in a blizzard of such examples, there are schools in Belgium that not only serve halal food to Muslim and non-Muslim alike (old news), but, according to a recent French magazine report, no longer teach authors deemed offensive to Muslims, including Voltaire and Diderot; the same is increasingly true of Darwin. (Don't even ask about the Holocaust.)

For a more substantial, indeed, keystone example of accommodation, we can look to England, where, it pains me to write, Sharia courts are now officially part of the British legal system. According to press reports this week, the British government has quietly, cravenly elevated five Sharia courts to the level of tribunal hearings, thus making their rulings legally binding.

It may be difficult to quantify the impact of a Voltaire vacuum on the continent, but we can instantly see the inequities of British Sharia (I can't believe I'm writing that phrase). Among the first official verdicts were those upholding the Islamic belief in male supremacy. These included an inheritance decision in which male heirs received twice as much as female; and several cases of domestic violence in which husbands were acquitted and wives' charges were dropped.

In a decidedly minuscule minority, I say we ignore the spread of Islamic law across Europe, from the schoolroom to the courtroom, at our peril, particularly given that in so doing, we also ignore the vital political parties that have arisen in reaction to this threat to Western civilization. Why at our peril? Because the same type of liberty-shrinking, Sharia-driven accommodation is happening here.

Of the parties dedicated to resisting Islamization that I examined in Europe last summer, the most promising range from the sizeable Vlaams Belang in Belgium to the tiny Sweden Democrats, and include the Lega Nord in Italy, the Party for Freedom of Geert Wilders in Holland, the Danish People's Party, the Swiss People's Party and the Austrian Freedom Party. Such parties are unknown here, or ignored. Worse, they are shunned. Why? I believe it's because their respective political opponents -- the leftist media and governing establishments that are increasingly dependent on Islamic support, by the way -- have successfully slandered these parties as "extremists," "racists," "fascists" and "Nazis."

Is advocating freedom of speech "extreme" or "fascist"? Is opposing Islam's law, which knows no race, "racist"? Is supporting Israel (which these parties do far more than other European parties) "Nazi"? The outrageously empty epithets of the Islamo-socialist left seem calculated to stop thought cold and trigger a massive rejection reflex. In this way, resistance becomes anathema, and Islamic law, unchecked, spreads across Europe.

Does that sound "Islamophobic"? You bet. How can anyone who values freedom of conscience, equality before the law and other such Western jewels not have a healthy fear of Islamic law, which values none of these things? Incredibly, this is an emotion that is supposed to be suppressed -- and, in Europe, on pain of prosecution. Indeed, because Filip Dewinter admitted to such "Islamophobia" in an interview, his party, the Vlaams Belang, has been taken to court in Belgium on charges of racism, and, if convicted, will be effectively shut down through defunding by the government.

That hasn't stopped Dewinter, who, in accepting an award at a memorial event dedicated to Oriana Fallaci in Florence, last week, said: "Islamophobia is not merely a phenomenon of unparalleled fear, but it is the duty of every one who wants to safeguard Europe's future. Europe means Rome, Greece, Enlightenment and Judeo-Christian roots. Europe is a continent of castles and cathedrals, not of mosques and minarets."

Of course, even as Dewinter admits to fearing the Islamization of Europe, he and his colleagues act with exceptional political -- and physical -- bravery in rallying voters against it. This coming weekend, he joins several other politicians on the Sharia-fighting right in Europe -- among them two other men I interviewed, Mario Borghezio of Lega Nord, which is part of Italy's ruling coalition, and Heinz-Christian Strache of Austria's Freedom Party, which is expected to become part of Austria's ruling coalition after elections this month -- in Cologne, Germany. In that ancient cathedral city, where the city council recently approved the construction of a long-controversial mega-mosque, these men will address a rally against European Islamization. (Contrary to initial reports, Jean-Marie Le Pen will not be at the demonstration.) The Sharia-fighters expect 1,500 demonstrators. Police expect 40,000 counter-demonstrators.

These are frightening odds -- a metaphor, perhaps, for Europe's chances of staving off Islamic law. Who lost Europe? If it does happen, we certainly won't be able to say we weren't warned.

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About The Author
Diana West is a contributing columnist for Townhall.com and author of the new book, The Death of the Grown-up: How America's Arrested Development Is Bringing Down Western Civilization.
 
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This can't happen here...?
What will the chosen one do to keep this from happening here?
This has to stop.
Where are the leaders with the stones to speak the truth about this?

ABSURD...
Europe isn't "yours" to lose, neo-con republics... mind your own bidness and clean up the mess you've made in merica.

Mr. GJG @ 15:19 asked
"What will the chosen one (presumably bh0) do to keep this from happening here?"

Roughly what Vidkun Quisling did to prevent Nazi occupation of Norway!

Who lost Europe?
The obvious answer is the "Europeans".

Next Question?

Cultural Bigotry...
thy name is Diana West

Who Lost America?
Both of the major party candidates for President have been pandering to the illegal aliens promising them amnesty for violating our borders and laws.

Many of us see another amnesty as the end of the Republic, the stampede it will set off will be overwhelming. If we don't stop the inundation none of the rest matters. We'll be a banana republic before the jihadis can get us. There will never be another GOP president or Congressional majority. Importing voters for the socialists is as stupid as it gets.

To Jayhawk
You are a sick and dangerously ignorant fool. Thank God for Diana West for speaking the truth about Islam. How many people know that there were children aboard the hijacked planes of 9/11? And that Islam advocates even child-murder to support its goals? Islam is a cult of death and violence, nothing more. The world would be a far better place without it.

The oddest outcome to be sure
Having schooled and lived in Europe as a child and as an adult, I'm left dim-witted at the fait accompli of the Islamic creep into European life.

Truth is most Europeans, whether French, Austrian, Nordic or Middle Europa don't like Muslims, much less Islam. It's not a racial distaste, it's cultural. When I was a child taking the train daily to school, the Arabs were constantly spoken to and about with apprehension in the corridors and compartments. A culture apart.

To now see the integration into anglo-jurisprudence of, albeit limited domestic Sharia justice is just bizarre. In France, the Islamic conflict with the secular tradition that dates to the reformer Jules Ferry, clashed at the end of the Chirac term with the right to garb with the Chador. The French were wholly indignant that such a question could even be in play.

European are essentially frightened of the numbers and the volatility of the personalities of the Muslims in their midst.


Spain, (no stranger the Muslim influence) is the lone standout. The Spanish have no fear of anything culturally and can handle any group within their ranks.

That fear of the Islamic tide, an acute and growing fear that the rest of the continent and England seem to be paralyzed by will be addressed apparently only when soft Europe is hardened by revulsion or terror in their own cities beyond the ghettos that the local police fear to venture into.

Europe having little religion, has too much fear.



Jayhawk
Cultural Bigotry or pragmatism?

While you may believe in moral equivalence the Muslims do not. The backwoods baptists may quail at being called intolerant I assure you that the Imams do not. They have no compunction about blowing up thousand year old statues, and would rather see school girls burn to death than flee a building to the street. No to they mind killing their own children who convert to Christianity. They still believe in honor killings (which are legal under sharia law).

Just because Diana's paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get us.

As for me I'll miss pork barbecue and beer.

European Suicide
Islam has been at war with modern western civilization for the whole of its history, and Europe has now surrendered (Islam = surrender) because marxism weakened Europe and made it become bored with life and uninterested in survival. America is in the process of throwing off the shackles of marxism and rejecting the bigoted ideology and the culture of death that form the foundation of both Islam and liberal fascism. Both Islam and liberal fascism absolve people of responsibility for their actions, and place all power in the hands of the State. The Europeans had already surrendered their individual liberty to the State, therefore for Islam to take over it was only necessary to substitute one State for another. The same tools that are used to destroy one of these enemies will work as well for the other. Personal freedom, personal responsibility, private property, equal justice, freedom from oppressive government, privacy.

Muslims have big families
That is why they will take over Europe.

Hey jayhawk:
Is it cultural bigotry to oppose the spread
of a vicious ideology that is all about real
cultural bigotry?

Would she be a cultural bigot if she were
writing about the spread of, say, fascism?

Just asking.

R.A.M.
good post

There are sociopaths and psychopaths in every religion and every occupation.

But this fact is true - big families are highly valued among Muslims. They are adamantly against abortion. So while we spend billions of dollars convincing nonmuslims to kill their babies if they are so "unfortunate" to conceive children, Muslims are quietly outnumbering
nonmuslims by lifestyle.

They won't have to kill us (nonmuslims) we are doing a pretty good job of that all by ourselves.

R.A.M. said:
"You cannot blame the many for the actions of a few."

Maybe not - but you can blame the many for allowing the actions of a few to rule themselves and others. When the many step back and allow the fundamentalists to set up and manage the courts, when they allow them to murder anyone of any group including their own, then they are part of the problem too.

Bigots
yeah when you have priests saying that everyone should call "God" Allah so as not to offend Muslims, that school children must eat Halal food no matter what their faith, foot baths, and on and on. Yes, it is people like Diane that are the bigots.


Is Europe lost?
Yes, and here's why. Europe when challenged with facing Arabic terror head on throughout the world joined WITH the Muslim anti-Americanism, joined with Muslim anti-Israelism, and joined with their Arabic leftists populations which was and remains a natural fit for socialist Europe. England, under a leftists government, brought in Sharia courts as the latest example. There is no going back now. This process can only accelerate for Europeans because the masses themselves have chosen who they wish to be associated with and who they wish to support. For many of us on this side of the pond it should come as no surprise to anyone that the Europeans worship Obama because they believe Obama is like them. He believes as they do, he is one of them. Ironically, Russia will be the sole holdout in this madness.

A few things
1) You can say all Muslims are sewer rats and came from monkeys and that would not be racist as being a Muslim is a religion and belief in something like a religion is not bound by race--there are white, black, Asian, and multiracial Muslims.

2) While some do indeed love their children, radical Islam **IS** a cult of death and they seem to have no issue with wrapping their children in explosives to kill the infidels. Care to see some of the things that go on Palestinian TV sometime--remember the Mickey Mouse figure encouraging children to strap bombs to themselves?

Does R.A.M stand for randomly absent minded or something?

the vacuum in Europe
When Europeans went secular, for the most part, that is when Muslims moved in to fill the spiritual/religious vacuum that Christianity left.
The reasons are many and complex but that is what happened.
The Muslims won't be stopped by mere secular government.

RAM and Mary Jo:
It's true that all religions and ideologies
have sociopaths and criminals. But you're
overlooking an important point.

Islam was founded in blood, terror and
oppression. Murder and intolerance has been
its stock-in-trade since Muhammad first
picked up his sword and began "converting"
his neighbors.

It's a dangerous, vicious ideology that
expressly rejects the very cultural tolerance
that I suppose you think you are advocating.

bullgod
So? They are going to outnumber us if we do not value our families as much as they do.
Our country has allowed the killing of one's own children since Roe v Wade.
There haven't been 50,000,000 suicide bombers.
And, listen, the circumstances in which these suicide bombers perpetrate their crimes are generally coercive in a rather dramatic, brutal manner.

A Far Too Optimistic Report
Unfortunately, Europe is almost certainly lost.

I state this for three reasons. First, the vast majority of Europeans are completely oblivious to the threat. They have been brain washed by multi-culturists who continually lie about Islam. They overwhelmingly believe that there is no danger.

The Europeans don’t understand that Islam’s long term plan is to take power at the ballot box. The Muslims have a weapon that the Europeans surrendered a long time ago, DEMOGRAPHY. The Muslims plan to out-copulate the Europeans.

The only way to reverse this situation is for Europe to force their Muslim populations to return to their home countries. There is zero political will to do this. In addition, Europe’s dependence on Middle East oil makes them hostages to the Arabs.

Second, the Europeans reject their own Christian heritage. The European Constitution rejects the fact that Europe’s history, culture, and identity are Christian. The Europeans have lost any sense of who they are. Therefore, they have nothing to fight for.

Third, the Europeans have become dedicated pacifists who may fight when faced with an attack by a foreign power on their own soil, but they will not fight an internal subversive enemy. The rot is systemic.

The incorporation of Sharia by the British government is the beginning of the end.

President Bush also has lied to the American people. He has stated,

“Islam is a religion of peace. Islam means peace.”

Islam translated into English means,

“SUBMISSION.”

Mark Steyn got it right...
in his book America Alone. Its all about demographics. If the birthrates of Europeans and Americans continues to drop, while the birthrates of Muslims continues to rise, within a generation or two the Muslims will be the majority.

While Muslims are still the minority, they are taking advantage of every opportunity to get a foothold in Western culture.

Americans and Brits make special accommodations at every turn: foot baths in airports, taxi drivers refuse service to the blind with seeing eye dogs, cashiers who do not have to handle pork products, drivers licenses issued to women wearing full burkas, the list goes on.

In my humble little community of 5,000 a large muslim sect wanted to purchase a 240+ acre farm from a developer and have it rezoned from agricultural to institutional use so they could build a mosque to serve 20 local families. When challenged as to why they needed 240 acres for a mosque to serve 20 families, they admitted that they also wanted to build a large convention facility so they could host their national convention that could draw as many as 10,000 muslims to our little town. The zoning board denied the zoning exception request and the owner/developer of the farm is now suing under the Religious Land Uses Protection Act (RLUIPA) saying the muslims "right" to buy property to build a mosque is being infringed on.

Guess who will likely win the lawsuit?

Mary Jo:
What's your point?

I agree with what you say about abortion -
a grisly, shameful practice at best, murder
at worst.

But what's the relevance to the topic here;
i.e., the cancerous spread of an ideology
that is founded in murder and intolerance?

If you're saying Islam isn't that bad because
it doesn't allow abortion, all I can say is
that you should look into it a bit deeper.

The good and the bad
The good news is that the Islamics tend to be far more socially conservative than the Europeans, and are far less prone to tolerate socialism. In these respects, Europe will be far better off giving in to the Islamics.

The bad news is that it is the Islamofascists forcing the Europeans into submission. I'm a social conservative, but I'm not quite willing to go along with the burqa-for-all, and stoning or deforming acid for all crimes. Not to mention, the Islamofascists are as bad as the Left's socio-ethnic interest groups in one regard: they are loyal only to their own, everyone else be damned.

It's why I'd love to introduce al Qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah to Lulac, La Raza, and Maldep.

I wonder with England
allowing Sharia law if they are going to allow honor killings of women, the killing of homosexuals, the rape of an adulterous man's sisters etc.

Mary Jo and Jayhawk
With all due respect - you simply don't have any idea what you're talking about and what we're dealing with.

DO NOT BELIEVE ME.

Study islam. As bulldog mentions above - it has been a violent and oppressive ideology since its inception. There is simply no argument on that point.

Charles Martel turned bak the islamic hordes at Tours. The Crusades began in response to please for help by the populaton there when the Byzantines were pushed out. The list goes on and on.

And don't play the moral equivalence game. The only reason, Mary Jo, you're not oppressed is due to Christianity.You might be in a burqua, have had a clitorectomy, be one of 5 wives or divorced with no rights to property or children.

Think I'm being overdramatic? Go study the laws of "moderate" Kuwait or Egypt.

Why do you all think sharia is outlawed in Turkey?? It is because the Turks - beginning with Kemal, understood you cannot have any type of equality or balanced jurisprudence with islamic law in charge.

So tear off the coexist sticker from your car. With islamin charge, yu'd get your head cut off for having one. "There is no god but allah and mohammed is his prophet".

Again, don't believe me. It's there for you to seeif you are willing to open you eyes.

EUROPE IS LOST
Europeans are responding to Islam the same way the French responded to the Nazi threat in the 1930's. Too little, too late!!

Will Never Happen Here
Islam will never taker over the US. We have a well organized law enforcement, we have a military that is guided by the constitution and best of all we the the 2nd Amendment in case the first 2 options fail. BTW don't feel sorry for the Eurotrash as they had this coming. Remember how the French, British and Germans fought the Ottoman Empire, created that mess called the Middle East, invaded Africa and let's not forget the French in Vietnam. So know they have a taste of their own medicine, good for them!!!

Why So Heartbroken over Europe??
The Europeans always like to criticize the US for wrongdoings we have committed. The Europeans have mastered to an artform the extermination of human beings. 6millions Jewish people in WW2 while the rest of Europe stood by. The Spanish Inquisition, The Diaspora, Slavery, and more recently ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia. So spare me if don't shed a tear. Perhaps Islam should take over Europe and maybe just maybe the Europeans can reminisceon on how good they had it when the US was in charge.

brain washed
"Muslims, including Voltaire and Diderot; the same is increasingly true of Darwin. (Don't even ask about the Holocaust."

This is a plain, old fashioned, misconception.

Muslims, except for those Nazified in the 1930s around the Levant and not anti Jewish. There are millions of happy jews in Iran for example.

bullgod/charlesmartel1 we r killing us
This isn't a defense of Islam.
It's facing the facts.
They understand the importance of children in the ultimate aim of Islam - which is to convert the world and impose a theocracy.
They will outnumber non-muslims here, just as they are approaching a majority in Europe.
then, they will vote.
Also, there is a custom of having children in the United States, to insure natural born citizenship.
It is conceivable that a child raised outside our nation could become President because his mother came here to be born. Or his father married an American in order to have a natural born citizen.
Contrary to a common assertion, children are a valued asset in third world countries.
The Catholic Church and the Muslim nation have collaborated at the UN to prevent abortion mandates.
They understand the strength of their prosterity.
Don't be so sure the mothers of the children who are drugged up and sent to be remotely detonated are all happy about it.

Kenny - please open a book
"The Europeans have mastered to an artform the extermination of human beings. 6millions Jewish people in WW2 while the rest of Europe stood by"

Sorry - that comment is just too stupid to let go.

Britain and Europe starting fighting the Nazis 2 years before America, who stood and watched, and had to be begged to enter the war.

Also when was the "US in charge"?

Don't you mean "giving"?
You know, they pay women to have babies in Germany.

West
West doesn't think this is racist or Nazi like? odd

Vlaams Belang in Belgium


"Some members, such as Roeland Raes have been accused of being Nazi sympathizers.[32] Roeland Raes was charged with Historical revisionism in accordance with the Belgian Holocaust denial law, specifically for uttering the following controversial sentence: “whether it was planned that they should all die during the war is another question”.[33] During the interview, Raes however had no doubts about the systematic persecution and deportation of the Jews by the Nazis."


Is Europe Lost?
Read Jeremiah 5 lately?

We're next.

47 million abortions can't be wrong.

Taft,
I suggest you study the Qur’an, the Sunnah and Hadith, Islamic Jurisprudence, and the history of the Jihad and Dhimmitude.

While I am by no means an “Islamic Scholar” such as Robert Spencer, Bat Ye’or, or Paul Fregosi, I have read over 40 books on the subject.

In my opinion, you don’t know what the heck you are spouting about.

Akagi
Astonished to read those posts from you. I agree completely.
Islam is a religion of pieces. If they would just blow themselves up and leave the rest of us alone......

Muslims
fact: About 16 million nominal Muslims live in the European Union, less than 4 per cent of the EU population.

Thank You, Diana
Thank you for writing about an issue that is mostly taboo. Not politically correct. Not "tolerant" or "enlightened."

And I admire your courage for going where 99 percent refuse to go--they, we, are in la la land. Denial of reality.

What is to be done? Those who are willing to look at the issue are at a loss what to suggest. The looming battle for the world's resources could make this issue a moot one. It's hard to imagine what the world will look like 40 years from now, after many of us have been "carried off" as Benjamin Franklin would put it. We may be blown up sooner than that if the Muslims in this country tilt towards hatred along the lines of UBL.

All it takes is someone willing to become a "martyr."

WDS
I appreciate the thought, and I haven't read near 40 books on the subject, but I have done some reading on the topic. I like this story...

Time Magazine July 2, 2007

Five years ago, extremists murdered her journalist husband Daniel in Pakistan. Mariane Pearl takes some questions.

Has your view of Islam changed?

No, it hasn't changed at all. I grew up with Muslim people, so I was very acquainted with Islam. So it is not like the people who killed Danny taught me what Islam was about. They are hijackers of their own faith.

Good Viewing
It would be good for Europe to be conquered by Islam and for us here in America to see millions of Europeans slaughtered and enslaved. I'm looking forward to it with glee.

Somehow Americans need to be confronted with reality. 9/11 wasn't enough. The Mideast wars haven't been enough. All the acts of terrorism haven't been enough. They've merely been reality shows for us. Only a tiny minority of us have been impacted, those that have served there and the families of those troops. All others have remained untouched. Most of America deludes itself into thinking they can remain free from those Muslim devils.

Seeing carnage in Europe, burned bodies, public beheadings of people who look like us, and long lines of refugees fleeing to sanctuaries with their plastic bottles of water might, just might, cause Americans to sit up and take notice.

I kind of doubt it, though. But it will still be fun to watch all those backstabbing Europeans get what they so richly deserve.

Like I say, I'm looking forward to it.

Muslims And The Europeans
Is it just a coincidence that even as Europe is bowing down to the Muslims, they are screaming for Obama. They love him and want him to rule America!!

Why? What do they expect from him? Did he not say in his book if the winds change,he would side with Muslims? If not Muslim himself,he has ties to many of them even today.


Does anyone but me get chills just imagining him as president at a time when Muslims are flexing their muscles in this country,as well as Europe?

Taft,
Did I understand you correctly?

Although you mention no authors, you claim to have done “some reading.”

However, you are impressed by a Time Magazine article that includes a quote by Daniel Pearl’s wife?

Is this what you MOST base your opinion on?

In the interest of fairness, I want to make sure I understand your post correctly.

It can't happen here
Ahhhhhh, memories of listening to Frank Zappa while cruising in a 57 Chevy, a really hot 57 Chevy (unfortunately not mine).

What is happening here is that I work as a common laborer side by side with lots of Muslims, male and female, some devout (they pray right there at work) and some not so devout (they love fun and use the s word).

I don't have the sense--yet--that these co-workers want anything from me--except my boss, one of the Mosque-attending yet not so devout types. My boss is tough but fair; demanding but reasonable; bossy but also buddy-buddy. He's a tremendous improvement over my last boss. I won't even go there.

I say, let's get our butts out of the Muslim lands and beef up our military. Let's work with these people but not tolerate any "trespassing," so to speak, any violation of boundaries so to speak. But to get there, we have to respect their boundaries by getting off of their land, especially places near the holy places (this is contrary to the teachings of the Prophet).

I repeat, we need to beef up our military and police and be ready. At the same time, we need to be far-sighted about the perceptions of 1.4 billion Muslims. Some of these perceptions are legit and need to be respected.

To taft
"There are millions of happy jews in Iran for example"

Oh, PLEASE don't speak foolishness. There are roughly 20-30,000 Jews living in Iran. Not millions. And how happy would YOU be if you "were not allowed to be elected to a representative body or to hold senior government or military positions..." and "suffered varying degrees of officially sanctioned discrimination, particularly in the areas of employment, education, and housing".

Also members of your faith "are prevented from serving in the judiciary and security services and from becoming public school principals."

"Government workers who do not observe Islam's principles and rules are subject to penalties."

"University applicants are required to pass an examination in Islamic theology, which limits the access of most religious minorities to higher education, although all public school students, including non-Muslims, must study Islam."

"The legal system also discriminates against religious minorities who receive lower awards than Muslims in injury and death lawsuits and incur heavier punishments."

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35497.htm

Taft, even the least hint of that sort of discrimination in the U.S. is strongly condemned -- yet you appear to think that vastly worse discrimination in Iran is not only okay, it is SUBLIME.




The Liberal Hypocrites Are..
..leaving Europe...

White "Christian" Europe has birthrates so low as to now be irreversable, while Muslim birthrates are very high, and so is Muslim immigration.

The nations of the European "Union" now have to bring in more and more Muslim etc immigrants to fill the job slots that the White Christian aborted and never-conceived babies would have filled had they been born. They MUST do this to fill the job slots to grow the European ecomony to create the tax base to prop-up the ever increasing European social-welfare states.

Feminism has killed Europe. Jean Raspail was right: "The deed is done."

Feminism will kill any Tribe where the "men" are so gutless as to let women have the power to set the birthrates of the nation.

S'alright, the little party will soon be over for Europe. It is reported by reputable journalist that the Elites of Europe are applying in droves for American citizenship. They're getting out while they can. Tells you a lot about how serious they were about their claim to be "multi-culturalists", don't it ?

hectormanjack@yahoo.com

Talillilong
i was was way off on my numbers, thanks. Jews do not as many rights but they do have members in government and are, as I said basically happy.


"However, in a rather unprecedented move, the sole Jewish member in the Iranian parliament, Maurice Motamed, strongly condemned exhibition of cartoons about the Holocaust that recently took place in Tehran, and he has also written a letter to Iran’s president questioning his denial of the Holocaust, calling it "a very big insult to Jews all around the world."[12]


--
The Jewish presence dates back nearly 3,000 years.
Although Iran and Israel are bitter enemies, few know that Iran is home to the largest number of Jews anywhere in the Middle East outside Israel.

About 25,000 Jews live in Iran and most are determined to remain no matter what the pressures - as proud of their Iranian culture as of their Jewish roots.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5367892.stm

Obama ok With Genocide in Iraq
Many Americans have heard about the 'Rape Rooms' in Iraq.

The details are to ghastly to describe here at TH, this is as graphic as allowed.

Women and girls, reportedly as young as 9 years old, were strapped down and repeatedly raped and tortured any way the 'Islamic Animals' desired, by as many 'Brutal Men' as available.

Many of their families were forced to watch.

When the 'Islamic Animals' had enough of the female, many were fed feet first into a wood chipper while they were still alive.

The next female victim and their families would be brought in.

This was Genocide of Iraqi females.

July 2007 "Presidential hopeful Barack Obama said the United States cannot use its military to solve humanitarian problems and that preventing a potential genocide in Iraq isn't a good enough reason to keep U.S. forces there."

Obama and his destruction will be remembered as 'Sacrifice for the Common Good'.



WDS
Thanks for being patient. No, I've read many other things than the Time article.

Democrats want Church State Separation?

Islamic Academy of Virginia, Richmond, VA

Stands on Fairfax County Va ground - no protest from the ACLU?? No protest from Democrats about Separation of Church and State?
================================================
The authors of a 12th-grade text on Quranic interpretation state that apostates (those who convert from Islam), adulterers and people who murder Muslims can be permissibly killed.

The authors of a 12th-grade text on monotheism write that "(m)ajor polytheism makes blood and wealth permissible," meaning that a Muslim can take with impunity the life and property of someone believed guilty of polytheism. According to the panel, the strict Saudi interpretation of polytheism includes Shiite and Sufi Muslims as well as Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists.

A social studies text offers the view that Jews were responsible for the split between Sunni and Shiite Muslims: "The cause of the discord: The Jews conspired against Islam and its people. A sly, wicked person who sinfully and deceitfully professed Islam infiltrated (the Muslims)."
================================================
Wonder what else they teach - readin, writin and suicide bombin......

I wonder what the kids are learning in shop class - bomb making 101?

Fairfax County Democrat head of the Board of Supervisors Gerold Connolly approved the Islamic School on Fairfax County owned ground, along with a unanimous vote of the Democrat School Board.

Connolly will be the Democratic candidate for Congress in that district and supports Obama.

To taft
I hear what you say.

Now stop and think about this.
Let's say you are atheist in America. You find that you are blocked from many jobs which only Christians can get, cannot rise as high as Christians in others, and are routinely harassed for your lack of faith. The bad old Christians force your children to learn Christian doctrine in school. They won't let you enter college unless you are a Christian. The police 'profile' you and your kind. You receive harsher legal penalties in court. In EVERY, SINGLE thing you do, you are strictly second-class.

Taft, if that happened in America, would you pass it off with "Well, things aren't really that bad, all around"?

No, you would not. You would scream to high heaven -- and rightly.

So please don't make light when other people live in circumstances harsher than any you have ever experienced.

Obama Promises to Stand with Muslims
Honor Killings of females all over the world and happening now in America.

Islamists conduct most of these 'Honor Killings' but other cultures do as well.

Where they can conduct the 'Honor Killings' in public, the time honored way of these animals is to bury the female waist deep in a hole and then stone them to death.

Stoning to death is a slow, brutal, ghastly death.

These women and girls have committed such ghastly acts as not having meals served on time.

These women and girls have committed such ghastly acts as not wearing Burkhas or veiling their faces properly.

I worked for a while in an Islamic country where I saw women trying to eat ice cream cones with veils on, being careful not to show their face.

Street vendors work the streets with vegetables and so forth and women let down baskets to get their purchases, if no male is available to escort them to the street.

These women face 'stoning to death' if they do not use hand signals to indicate their purchase because they are not allowed to speak to any man who is not family.

We can expect more women in America to suffer 'Honor Killings'.

"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
Barack Obama from 'Audacity of Hope'


Is Obama Naive, Ignorant or Insane
"Islam can be compatible with the modern world. It can be a partner with the Christian & Jewish & Hindu & Buddhist faiths in trying to create a better world." Barak Obama 2008 Democratic Compassion Forum at Messiah College Apr 13, 2008

compatible = capable of existing together in harmony.
Islam is a 700 AD religion and has NO rights for women.

partner = to join as a partner.
Islam and the Jewish religion partners?
================================================
"Obama is the only major candidate who supports tough, direct, presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions."
- Barackobama.com

Obama thinks Hamas and Iran can become partners with America and Israel?

These people are mortal enemies for thousands of years.

Obama will negotiate with these people believing that he can bring a partnership with them?

Talillilong
Yes, I agree with you totally. I'd like to keep it that way too. I've read some very disturbing trends towards our Muslim groups here and the desire to do away with their equal rights and tolerance.

Social Democracy
Well with Howard Dean and Barrack Obama striving to Match Europes model of Social Democracy it will be inevitable here to as I am sure new laws will be passed and the flood gates are opened.

European Gas-bags

Intellectuals don't win battles or wars, they don't have the mind-set or temperment for battle, and that is true for both political and military combat.

That's why Europe is done for...dead meat.

Intellectuals want to argue and debate, and few arguments are ever won ~~ except in their own minds. Hah hahah ahahah

Intellectuals convince themselves that THEY are right, and they rest their case ! Hah hahah

Absurd. Most of the world-on-the-way-to-them,
DOES NOT THINK LIKE THAT !!! The Third world adds 100,000,000 people every 18 months, and they know where Europe is located, and they are moving there by the millions.

It takes the mind-set and temperment of a George Patton to actually win a battle or a war,
political or military, or to STOP an immigrant invasion of a country.

European intellectuals (and American ones too)
are going to KEEP TALKING right up to the end.

It's really all they know to do. Pathetic.

God Bless the US Military...they do more than "gas-bag it up"...they actually fight !

hectormanjack@yahoo.com


What is with Democrats and Genocide?

Democrats have a long history of being ok with genocide.
------------------------------------------------
July 2007 "Presidential hopeful Barack Obama said the United States cannot use its military to solve humanitarian problems and that preventing a potential genocide in Iraq isn't a good enough reason to keep U.S. forces there."
------------------------------------------------
Lesley Stahl on CBS's 60 Minutes.

Madeleine Albright When asked by Stahl with regards to effect of sanctions against Iraq:

"We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"
Albright replied: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price — we think the price is worth it."
------------------------------------------------
Samantha Power was rightfully awarded the Pulitzer for her finely written and downright horrifying book "A Problem From Hell" which, in macabre detail, describes the calculated indifference of the Clinton administration when 800,000 Rwandans were being systematically butchered. The red phone rang and rang and rang again. I don't know where Hillary was then. But her husband and his entire experienced foreign policy team - from the brass in the Pentagon to the congenitally feckless Secretary of State Warren Christopher - just let it ring.

To taft
You'd like to keep it that way, and Jews in Muslim nations would love to have what you already have. But since they aren't actually being *murdered* right now, you pretend that all is well with them.

You think it a disturbing trend that there is a desire to do away with Muslim equal rights? Think how disturbing it is for religious minorities in Muslim nations to have never HAD equal rights!

Obama Is A Muslim
He slipped up and admitted it to George Stephanopoulos. George covered for him.

Taft
Which author, or authors, have most influenced your view on this subject?

I assure you that I am truly interested in your response. I am not like others in that I want to play gotcha.

I need to know what influences people’s opinions. If I don’t, it is nearly impossible for me to give correct guidance.

Black Genocide in America
"Pam Sutherland ... of ... Illinois Planned Parenthood ... told ABC News, "We worked with him (Barack Obama) specifically on his strategy. The Republicans were in control of the Illinois Senate at the time. They loved to hold votes on 'partial birth' and 'born alive.' They put these bills out all the time because they wanted to pigeonhole Democrats. ..."

"Let me interpret. We, Planned Parenthood, told him what to say, and how to say it, so we could continue to kill infants; babies, just a few inches from birth, and those completely out of the womb that we missed! Our "colored minister" was well prepared by Planned Parenthood.

Partial Birth abortion -- which I will not describe here -- but know that 80% of Americans don't want this barbaric act practiced in this country – Barack Obama voted to keep legal!

The Born Alive Victims Act is a law to protect a child that was born alive after a botched abortion; a law that would require that the child would receive medical assistance.

Barack Obama voted against it! Yes. Barack Obama, with an "engaging personality" is being used by the leading abortion provider in the United States to promote and execute infanticide of predominately minority babies!"

By Rev. Clenard H. Childress Jr.,
March 5, 2008
http://www.blackgenocide.org/obama.html

1452 Black Babies are killed on daily average, 365 days a year.

Shelly In CO
If you want to go around wrapped up in a tablecloth or burka and be part of a harem--feel free. Next time go to Dearborn, not NYC. You'd be happier in Dearborn.

European Gas-bags
typo...should be:
hectormannjack@yahoo.com
___________________________


Btw,
Anybody out there a Manowar fan ?

I think they have some cool and tough songs.
A Call To Arms
I Believe
Heart of Steel (super great song)
Swords In The Wind (another great song)
The Sons Of Odin

WDS
I'm not after the "gotch ya" thing either.

I read two books not specifically about Islam but which covered the subject in a day to day situation, boith by former soldeirs.

Two Cups of Tea and The Places In between

http://www.amazon.com/Places-Between-Rory-Stewart/dp/015603 1566

This is a great book.

My main views also come from two scholars who have lived in the ME.

JuanCole and

http://xrdarabia.org/

WDS and others
It's been a nice debate, but my daughter needs the computer for school work, so good night.

To Louiselouise
Folks like Shelly never worry about things like this. They have been so coddled throughout their lives, and generally have so little first-hand knowledge of the world around them (except maybe a trip to Paris or Cozumel), that they cannot truly imagine the status of women in Islamic nations, and cannot comprehend that *anyone* would desire to inflict the same on HER.

Muslims Extremists and Killings

1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by a Muslim extremist.

1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by Muslim extremists.

In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by Muslim extremists.

During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by Muslim extremists.

In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by Muslim extremists.

In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by Muslim extremists.

In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by Muslim extremists.

In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by Muslim extremists.

In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by Muslim extremists.

In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by Muslim extremists.

On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take down the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by Muslim extremists.

In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by Muslim extremists.

In 2008 Muslim extremists killed women in Honor Killings in America.

Tallil2long

At Sep. 18 9:36 PM

Ah! An atheist sympathy-giving kind of guy, are ya !

What about Charles Darwin's the survival of the fittest...let the atheists make converts enough to become powerful and defend their own selves regarding jobs and such...

...until then let them do the best they can with their small numbers...

The strong survive and do what they want to...the weak do what they have to...

...the hell with atheists and their rights...

We're in a WAR here for the heart and soul of America, and the wretched atheists are not helping my side any at all...

...they're dragging it down..

...I don't care about their rights...the strong to what they will..the weak do what they must..

hectormannjack@yahoo.com

Where are the womens rights groups?
ON July 6, 2008 police say, a Pakistani named Chaudhry Rashid strangled his 25-year-old daughter San- deela Kanwal with a Bungee cord in her bedroom because she wanted to end her arranged marriage.

This "honor killing" came not in Pakistan, but in Jonesboro, Ga. - a suburb 16 miles outside Atlanta.

At his arraignment, Rashid said through an Urdu interpreter that he was "not in the state of mind to talk because of the death of his daughter," but stated "I have done nothing wrong."
------------------------------------------------

Where are the womens rights groups protesting 'Honor Killings' in America?

Taft
I am not familiar with either of the two writers you have mentioned.

You are very blessed. I always wanted a daughter.

I wish you, your daughter, and her mother, the best.

Otto von Bismarck...

....was right for all time !

"...The great issues of today will NOT be settled by the deliberations of politicians, but with blood and iron..."

Man is a warrior species, and these issues relating to Europe will one day be settled with on a battlefield.

All 6000 years of recorded human history says that is the truth.

Human nature does NOT change merely because it has surplus money. It uses that surplus money to gain political and military advantage over other Tribes.

We will have a major conflict over these issues. It's merely a matter of time.

hectormannjack@yahoo.com


Hectormann
Hmmm.
No, I'm not an atheist. I blindly hazarded a guess that Taft might be an atheist, or at least non-religious, and figured that wording the example that way might be more evocative to him than another.

As a point of fact, I am quite a traditional Christian. And I don't reckon that Christ would advocate the sort of approach you commend -- that might makes right. Because we live in a fallen world, it frequently *happens* that way, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it as an ideal.


Taft
Taft

Taft Reply # 42

Muslims

fact: About 16 million nominal Muslims live in the European Union, less than 4 per cent of the EU population.

Taft ... WRONG ... the number is 27 million, and growing as I write this.

No PC here--
I am not politically correct, never. Some may gripe about this post, but I could care less.
My wife and I are of Skandinavian and Russian ancestry, and I believe that it is a da%m shame that most of the Skandinavians gave up the Viking religion. Because if they had not, the Islamist extremists would not even get near the Nordic countries. Many of the Power Vikings stayed in Russia 1000 years ago. Today the Nordics need Hardraada, Blood Axe, and their warriors to remind the present day Nordics who made Skandinavia powerful and respected. Not the sell-out turn the other cheek crowd that is in charge now.
Three years ago I talked with a Norwegian exchange student who told me that many of these muslim types were excused when they committed many crimes, I asked why. He said that they come from harsh environments and that we (the Norwegians) were nice people. To which I replied, no, you have become stupid people if that is what you are made to believe. I also said, what if they eventually take you over, then what? He had no answer. Then I said, if you care for your country, then don't allow this to happen, grow a backbone!!!!!
I am glad that my Norse grandfather, Nils Olav Svara is not alive to see this lack of will by his former countrymen.

Tallil2long

Hello Tallil2long

Well I prefer the idea that right makes might.

As a traditional Christian you are my brother in Christ...even though you may have doubts about ME !! Hahah ah ah

Also as a traditional Christian you are aware of "Just War Doctrine", and that the people of God have a long history of fighting wars...

...against the Muslims..
...against the Caananites...
..against the Nazis..

I am not rabid. but I don't waste my sympathy on atheists or their "rights"...

...their "rights" usually turn out to be "code" for taking prayer out of the public schools and the Ten Commandments off public spaces...etc

A man can be a Christian and still have a tough warrior attitude...that's me!

hectormannjack@yahoo.com

RAM
No I am not a Muslim. However I did live in a strict Muslim country for 2 years. You miss, as Akagi, did not the two of the three examples I cited are well documented. Time Magazine reported on one or both of the events in question. Honor killings are well documented as well. The most recent being that of a Saudi government official who killed his daughter for her conversion. As I said, I don't see the moral equivalence.

As I said I will miss beer and barbecue.

Goodbye and good riddance
If the Anglo Europeans care so little about their own culture and heritage, built by over 2,000 years of toil, that they're willing to see it eviscerated by Muslims, then I say let them - and then let's see how the Anglo Europeans like it living in a society where they're considered infidels. And will be treated as such. Let them leave this world cowering before a Muslim executioner and begging not to be killed because they opposed U.S. policy, too - and have their last thought this side of eternity be a realization of how destructively stupid they really were.

J.D.'s Handsome Son is right: if Europe goes Muslim in the next generation, American TV ought to have a field day at broadcasting stonings, beheadings, hangings, etc. of people who look just like us. Maybe such scenes will get through to even those as obtuse as the feminists that maybe fundamentalist Christians really AREN'T as much of a threat to their personal safety as fundamentalist Muslims! Nah, wait a minute, who am I kidding, when have ardent leftists in the last 70 years shown a capacity to learn ANYTHING - no matter how baldly it's staring them right in the face?

Pure Reality

White Europeans make up 4 percent of the Earth's population..

White Europeans have stopped having babies. Their birtrates are so low that we are going to vanish off the face of the earth if this is not turned around. It will NOT be turned around.

Goodby!

It is the gutless spineless "men" of the West that cower before their women like whipped sheep,that has caused this mess in Europe in the first place.

:...A nation that can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one..."
__Alexander Hamilton

Put women in charge of the birthrates in any nation and they will choose careers and freedom and money instead of having babies at the levels needed to grow their nation.

The White birthrate in America is 1.77 per woman of childbearing age. You need 2.2 just to replace the death rate. Go figure !

The future belongs to the fertile. That's an iron law of history.

In Europe the White "Christian" birthrates are so low that D. West is wasting her time writing this article. Meanwhile the Muslim birthrates are off the charts, AND Muslim immigration is high and increasing.


It is what it is.

hectormannjack@yahoo.com

Taft & Way Down South
If you're really interested in Islam pick up some of Bernard Lewis's books. He's a pretty good scholar and gets his facts right. His assesments match what I observed in my time in the Middle East.

I never recommend websites
However, this one is worth it.

http://www.voteyesforlife.com

If you care about the issue of abortion, please, please go here. There is a potentially groundbreaking referrendum in South Dakota that could turn the tide against abortion. Take a few minutes, please.

Take a Chill Pill....
More Diana West hyperventilating....

Europe is not going to adopt Sharia Law, either now or in the foreseeable future.

I am not a Muslim, but I have known many Muslims in my time. None have advocated Sharia Law here in the US. None have tried to convert me or anyone else to Islam.

This amounts to Neoconservatives trying to whip up hysteria against a convenient enemy. Can't blame them, I suppose--it worked for the Nazis, as well as the communists who were the Neocons' intellectual forbears.

Let the Europeans
give their country away. Just don't let the cowards immigrate into this country when they realize the mistake they made. We have our own cowards, the lefties, to deal with as they're trying to give it away to Mexico.

ulsterscott
Some of his writings are also on the internet,or was at one time. I printed off a long speech he made about Islam.

We are losing Europe to Islam,so the title of this piece says. We are not that far along here,yet. The MSM will not report it when it happens. They are afraid or will welcome it. Not sure which. Is that why they want Obama?

Don't be fooled, they're here now
A few weeks ago Tyson Foods had a small battle with Muslim workers and the public over changing Labor Day for a Muslim holiday. The Muslims lost and Labor Day was restored because people who read the story in the MSM wrote in, I expect in large numbers. I was one of them.

Today I read in Fox News about the Swift Meat Company company engaging in a similar battle. I've written to them too, and non-Muslim workers are protesting.

In Minnesota a Muslim public school supported by taxpayers is lying and trying to hide the fact that they're teaching religion in the school.

But American kids can't say The Pledge of Allegiance or pray in public schools.

One only needs to read some of the Quran, watch and read the news, listen to talk radio, and do a small amount of web surfing (start with CAIR and ANTI-CAIR websites)to come to the intelligent conclusion that the goal of Islam is to invade and take over all of western society, and the world. Go ahead, be brave...read the Quran. Be enlightened.

Either we all resist now, or prepare ourselves for suicide bombers on buses and in your local Mall, because they are here. There are at least two Muslims in government right now, and I think one refused to take the oath of office on the bible. Nancy Pelosi put the Quran on top of the bible, if I'm not mistaken.

Somehow I don't think baseball and apple pie can co-exist with Islam.

When will this Liberal madness end???

There is no England anymore.

Lynda is right, they are here now
Lynda mentioned the Swift workers who were Muslims, some of them are here in Colorado. They insist on running a production line around their prayer schedule. According to my interpretation of the Civil Rights law which addresses religion in the workplace, their religious freedom is not being violated. In addition to the school in Minnesota, there was also the issue of Muslim Cab drivers at the Minneapolis airport trying to refuse fares who were carrying alcohol. In our overly politically correct society, if we accomodate one thing, where would it stop? Moderate Muslims don't seem to be able to moderate the radical Muslims. I don't see how questioning Islam when it could potentially affect how I live my life can be considered racist or cultural bigotry. Radical Muslims don't seem to want to tolerate any religion other than their own. Say what you will about Mark Steyn's book, "America Alone" but demonstrates how it has already happened in Europe and what the future holds for them.

OBAMA IS MUSLIM!
no kidding, thats why obama is a must, obama is muslim! the terrorist groups are hopeing and waiting for obama to take over, so then they will have AMERICA for ever! we will be under their command! there will be no more christians or any other religion but islam! when are people going to wake up and see obama for what he is! he will absolutly destroy this country! it will be the end times of AMERICA! SAVE AMERICA, NO VOTE FOR obama!

yea, sure! they are not your friend!
Paolo, in time you will see they are not your friend, all in time! believe me, some of our friends found that out, it took them 2 years of being good friends with a couple of muslims, until they finally found out they were trying teach their childeren about allah and that our god was evil! they were absolutly socked!

OBAMA IS MUSLIM!
obama is not for blacks or whites or any other color, he could care less about anyone but obama, and his cronies, his muslim cronies! obama is a terrorist , was bred for this, to take over AMERICA, for you all know the muslims will waite and waite for what they want! what do they want,they want AMERICA and ISREAL, they want to rid of us! is that what the fools of this country want? obama telling lies to the people of AMERICA to get the votes! he is trying in all his might to win, to get his foot in the door of the white house, and to let islam reain forever! GOD, people better wake up!

to Hectormann
The Declaration states clearly "all men are created equal, and endowed by their Creator with certain rights..."
It DOESN'T say christians, it says ALL MEN.
If you are a true American patriot, you should be concerned about the rights and safety of ALL American citizens. Yes, ALL, even those who are fornicators, adulterers, homosexuals, atheists, even Oakland Raider fans.
Forgive my sounding judgemental if I suggest you don't sound like much of a "Christian" to me. Someone's religion, or lack thereof, has absolutely NO bearing on their inalienable rights. Millions have fought and died upholding this very ideal.

Is it inevitable?
You could make a case that it is in the long term interest of conservative Americans that Europe be abandoned to their fate.

Or at the very least that America disengage from Europe, so that come what may we will have some hope of staying out of it.

I'm coming to the reluctant conclusion that that is true.

I believe Europe has been on a slow motion suicide mission since the second decade of the last Century, and it looks like the pace is picking up.

I'm not saying this with glee, but because I believe it to be true. Or at least a plausible reading of events. I truly hope I'm wrong.

Maybe if we started the disengagement early enough, and consistently signalled that it was for real, the Europeans would be shocked enough to begin to at least think about defending their way of life.

I do know that, contrary to the Authors premise, we have no power to "win' or "lose" Europe, at least in the long run. You cannot help someone who will not help themselves, no matter how hard you try.

It's ultimately up to Europe.

Europe not ours to lose
Europe does need a rude awakening about where it is so obviously heading.
It's time America divorced itself from being Europe's "Big Daddy" as Europeans, sub-conscioulsy, feel that no matter what, America is going to come save them from their own follies.
It's time for a little "tough love", let's get out of NATO for starters.

Gee, could it be immigration?
Gee, I wonder how Mohammed, his wife(s) and seven children get from Crapistan to England, France and Germany?

I've got an idea....... it's call open, mass, family "unification" IMMIGRATION!!

Nah, I must be a racist xenophobe to even think that. My brain should be washed to accept the new globalized world mass immigration, so called "free trade" and trans-nationals.

Yawn (part1)
Jeezuz, here we go again.

Firstly, I know for a fact that 90% of you have NEVER been to Europe, never mind travelled anywhere.

Which my a long way makes you the most globally ignorant country in the world.

Everything for you yanks if put in a religious context isnt it? Is seeps into every pore and institution over there.

However as a Brit I can see that in this column where are are apparently going to have beheading in the street next week (what idiocy), the real issue is about RELIGION.

Read this sentence slowly; we are not a religous country.

Got that. We are rolling back all religions where we can, and that includes islam.

Yes, there have been a couple of courts set up to deal with minor muslim issues. Like divorce for example.

But its so minor, to try an extrapolate it into Britain going muslim would take extreme stupidity, or being an ignorant right wing american.

You teach creationism in schools, want to cure gay people and hand guns out like candy.

Over here we dont know who would win in a race for the most stupid; you right wing christiand or muslims. My bet is it would be a dead heat.

Yawn, crass stereotyping (Part1)
Jeezuz, here we go again.

Firstly, I know for a fact that 90% of you have NEVER been to Europe, never mind travelled anywhere.

Which my a long way makes you the most globally ignorant country in the world.

Everything for you yanks if put in a religious context isnt it? Is seeps into every pore and institution over there.

However as a Brit I can see that in this column where are are apparently going to have beheading in the street next week (what idiocy), the real issue is about RELIGION.

Read this sentence slowly; we are not a religous country.

Got that. We are rolling back all religions where we can, and that includes islam.

Yes, there have been a couple of courts set up to deal with minor muslim issues. Like divorce for example.

But its so minor, to try an extrapolate it into Britain going muslim would take extreme stupidity, or being an ignorant right wing american.

You teach creationism in schools, want to cure gay people and hand guns out like candy.

Over here we dont know who would win in a race for the most stupid; you right wing christiand or muslims. My bet is it would be a dead heat.

Yawn (Part 2) Educate yourselves america
We are tolerant of religions. Tolerant. That is what this is about. And the joke on you is that you are not tolerant, and yet you pretend to be as christiand. Utter hypocrisy.

Unlike the US, religion has NO place in our politics. We are appalled at how much it dictates to you. And we think its moronic.

Europe, in your lack of knowledge and ignorance is nothing like you carcature. It is a wealthy, democratic, intelligent place.

I already know that nothing Ive said here will change the ignoramii here, raised on a view of europe straight out of right wing fiction. To you we're all socialists, we need the US (so not true, but obviouly you need to believe it for self esteem), we are all turning muslim etc. All total bull.

Im sure WW2 will be trotted out again. Facts warped (where were you for 2 years?) and used. But that was 60 years ago, its 2008 now.

But here is the punchline. You are now feeling the pain of prices rising, finances tight and a world where economic power is shifting and will continue to shift.

You need to stop being ignorant and offensive about the rest of the world, pretty soon the shoe will be on the other foot. How magnanimous will we be, well it will be more that you are because we are unencombered by religious fairytales and understand global affairs.

Try reading a book, or travelling. Might open your eyes.

PS when caricaturing us as cowards. It might be a good idea to remember that no only did Britan stand alone against the Nazis until you came in 2 years late, but our troops were in Bosnia, and are in Aphganistan and Iraq. We do where the action it and we stand up to evil. We have no need to listen to lectures from a country never attacked by armies and who keep out of conflicts until they have no choice. Its you who should be ashamed.

BETWyan
your post was short. But actually one of the very few right on the money.

And we, like you, have immigration right up there as a political issue. It has been reduced and will continue to be.

I bet none of that was in the US press, right?

America lost..
..from cabbies in Minneapolis to Tyson workers in Tennessee to Swift employees in Greeley Colorado. All wanting their Islamic sensibilities and religious quirks and phobias to be condoned and catered to by the rest of us. Most of them Somali refugees that have been unloaded on us by the US State Department. These refugees from their Islamic paradise are now trying to impose their culture and prejudices on our way of life.

ulsterscott
I have read Lewis’s, “The Crisis of Islam: Holy War and Unholy Terror.” It is a fine book.

Among others, I prefer Serge Trifkovic, Robert Spencer, Bat Ye’or, Paul Fregosi, Ibn Warraq and Andrew Bostom.

Paul Fregosi's "Jihad in the West: Muslim Conquests from the 7th to the 21st Centuries" is one of the finest history books I have ever read. It is essential reading for anyone who wants to learn about the history of the Jihad.

Re: ldopas .....
ldopas - thanks for the kind words.....Of course, most of our (US) media avoid the issue of mass immigration (legal and illegal) like the plague. But we do have some outlets - talk radio and the web and one or two national televions programs at bring it up for discussion but most of our media is laughingly biased to the left-liberal (American definition) side.

As you likely know, we are practically being colonized by Mexico - some 2,000 illegal aliens cross our southern border each and every day. The "proper, Orwellian" view is to smile and say "we're all immigrants" or "we're a nation of immigrants". The first is incorrect and the second only a half-truth at best.

But more to the point of Islamization, the Detroit, Michigan area has the highest and oldest Muslim "immigrant" population in the US. It's simply a matter of numbers. The more muslims that settle in an area, the greater the chance of Sharia law being slowly introduced into the town's civic laws and rules. The more muslims that settle in an area, the more honor killings will occur (we've had at least two in the last few years), the more observance of Islamic holidays (which they seem to have every other week), the more men with multiple wives, the more sympathy for militant, radical muslim groups like Hezbollah and Hamas, etc.

Numbers matters. Low immigration is fine but when the numbers are large, quantity creates a quality all to itself.

But IMHO, Islam is basically incompatible with the Western and American traditions. Therefore, their immigration numbers should be severely restricted. How can the US deny immigration to muslims since we so famously have freedom of religion?

By defining Islam as not just a religion but a political ideology, which it most surely is.

Sharia Law and Roe v. Wade
Diana, thank you for writing this important article. As a pro-choice woman I am much more threatened by Sharia law than by the prospect of Roe v. Wade being overturned. This is why I'll be voting for McCain/Palin, the first time ever that I'll vote Republican. I have absolutely no confidence that Obama and his liberal advisors will address this threat.

2nd reply to ldopas....
Oops, ldopas, you went off the deep end with your anti-American cliches and ignorance.

Firstly, most Americans DO NOT WANT to be part of a "globalized world". We dont' travel as much, nor know as many languages as EU'ers (what a joke) because our country is HUGE; you can spend an entire lifetime traveling and living inside it. This is not a weakness but shows an adult contentment.

Secondly, we were founded on INDEPENDENCE, of both the country and the individual. Therefore, historically, we strove to be independent, not dependent or part of a collective. This is not a weakness but a wonderful legacy. Foreigners who don't understand it, should simply not come here.

Religion, guns (oh yeah, guns matter big time!), self-reliance are in the DNA of Americans. Real Americans, not the globalized, recent "immigrants" or Hollywood/media gay-boys or other feminized "men".

You sound like a victim of Euro-trash media and it's highly, highly biased views.

Idopas in UK
I've been to Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park and have argued with Muslims and Muslim sympathizers there. Have you?

The Brits that were around me just stood there with their yaps open and didn't have a thing to say.

The only ones I ever saw there confronting the Muslims and their sympathizers were American Jews and other Christians, and they were but few.

Idopas wrote,
“Firstly, I know for a fact that 90% of you have NEVER been to Europe, never mind travelled anywhere.”

This is an astoundingly presumptuous statement. You know no such thing, “for a fact.”

I have to give you credit for one thing. You seem to be equally contemptuous of both Christians and Muslims.

Idopas
I'm interested.

We read here that some gigantic percentage of the European population despise America, and I've no doubt that is true.

I'm unsure why we're not reading articles describing widespread European protests, or at least political demands in lieu of street demonstrations, that all American troops be removed from European soil.

I'm assuming this is happening to some degree but we just don't know it.

Could you point me to any English language publication in Europe that would have a good feel for these efforts?

Again
I think West is being fooled by xenophobia. She acts like the UK is over run by Muslims and they are taking over the courts.

Total population: 58.8 million-Muslim population: 1.6 million (2.8%)

Also she mentions Sweden (3% muslim), the only country to take in our Iraqi refugees, if I remember right, over 10,000. In deed, the Iraq war has not only sent a multitude of Iraqi's all over Europe searching for something a little safer than bomb a day Baghdad.

Idopas
How's the Markazi mosque doing these days?

"The Markazi Mosque or Markazi Masjid is located at South Street, Savile Town, Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, England. It is one of the largest mosques in the U.K., one of the biggest purpose-built mosques in Europe and can hold up to 4,000 worshippers. It houses an Islamic seminary, founded in 1982, teaching about 200 boys in the Deobandi tradition.[1]

The mosque is run by the Tablighi Jamaat and serves as the European headquarters of the movement.

Large gatherings occur on a weekly basis whereby speeches are given in various languages based upon spirituality and teachings of Islam."

Excerpts from Jeremiah 5
"The Markazi Mosque or Markazi Masjid is located at South Street, Savile Town, Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, England. It is one of the largest mosques in the U.K., one of the biggest purpose-built mosques in Europe and can hold up to 4,000 worshippers. It houses an Islamic seminary, founded in 1982, teaching about 200 boys in the Deobandi tradition.[1]

The mosque is run by the Tablighi Jamaat and serves as the European headquarters of the movement.

Large gatherings occur on a weekly basis whereby speeches are given in various languages based upon spirituality and teachings of Islam

Jer 5:3
They have made their faces harder than rock;
they have refused to repent.
RSV

Jer 5:7
Your children have forsaken me,
and have sworn by those who are no gods.
When I fed them to the full,
they committed adultery
RSV

Jer 5:12
12 They have spoken falsely of the LORD,
and have said, 'He will do nothing;
no evil will come upon us,
nor shall we see sword or famine.
RSV

Jer 5:15-17
15 Behold, I am bringing upon you
a nation from afar, O house of Israel,
says the LORD.
It is an enduring nation,
it is an ancient nation,
a nation whose language you do not know,
nor can you understand what they say.
16 Their quiver is like an open tomb,
they are all mighty men.
17 They shall eat up your harvest and your food;
they shall eat up your sons and your daughters;
they shall eat up your flocks and your herds;
they shall eat up your vines and your fig trees;
your fortified cities in which you trust
they shall destroy with the sword."
RSV


The parallels with what happened to Israel are unmistakable to those with eyes to see.

Europe
"We" are losing Europe?

Do the Europeans not bear some responsibility for their own culture. I cannot go on a mainstream web site without reading how much we Americans are hated in Europe. If the Europeans are willing to submit to the Islamists in the name of "multiculturalism" and tolerance what can we do? I suspect anything we do would be resented anyway. In one or two generations the world is going to be a very different place and much less tolerant of liberty. Well, at least America will still be there for Europeans to blame for their problems

Idoaps
Talk to Taft, will you? Tell him he needs to travel outside of California a bit more.

Like maybe to Dearborn, Michigan or Rahway, New Jersey.

Muslims by Census

Last time I looked there were 9.3 million Muslims in America.

Many, many Muslim schools - at least one on public property in Fairfax VA.


Monotheism is the problem...
It will continue to be the problem.

People pooh-pooh the idea of an evangelical with her finger on the red button is a danger to us all.

People pooh-pooh British Sharia.

They are both equally dangerous.

Islamic Schools in My State
Islamic Academy of Virginia, Richmond, VA
This School stands on public property, approved by a Democrat board and Chaired by an Obama supporter running for Congress.

Al Kufa School, Roanoke, VA
Al Qalam School, Springfield, VA
Islamic Saudi Academy, Alexandria, VA
El-Iman Learning Center, Baileys Crossroads, VA
Al Quba Islamic School, Newport News, VA
IIAS, Fairfax, VA
MEC, Great Falls, VA
The American Open University, Falls Church, VA
The Washington Islamic Academy, Alexandria, VA

what america needs
is 5 years of sharia.

The Equivalency Ignoranti.
Those who peddle the pap that Christians and Muslims are equally dangerous know nothing about either.

They are the poster children for the Ignoranti.

RG
I don't understand your point. Who cares if there are a few Muslim schools? There are many Jewish schools too, aren't there?

Gene Touchet shows his ignorance
After living his entire life in a political environment inhabited by large numbers of Christians, he says there is no difference between a Sarah Palin and a Muslim Iman.

Perhaps Idoaps is correct and Gene needs to travel a bit more.

Interesting Sources
'Apartheid' row over Islamic school
Councillors in Birmingham, England, are divided
over the merits of a publicly-funded Islamic secondary school.
BBC News, 9 February 2001

Education Resources
GCSE Islamic Studies (UK qualification)
A 'Do-it-Yourself' study package offered by convert, author and former Religious Studies teacher, Ruqaiyyah Waris Maqsood.

Islam at School
A British religious education site offering better resources with which to teach Islam from an intelligent perspective, and dedicated to offering the young an appreciation of Islam as a free-thinking and rich faith which values both traditional wisdom and critical thinking.

The Islamic Foundation of North America
An organization dedicated to the establishment of a viable Islamic educational structure. They seek to create a systematic approach to the study of Islam by designing standardized curricula and syllabi that any school, home school or weekend school can implement for maximum benefit. For this purpose they have organized learning materials and compiled lists of grade-appropriate subject matter for all grades from KG-12th grade covering Islam, Arabic and reading.

The Institute of Islamic Information and Education (III&E)
Dedicated to the cause of Islam in North America through striving to elevate the image of Islam and Muslims by providing the correct information about Islamic beliefs, history and civilization from the authentic sources.

The Islamic American University
Located in Southfield Michigan and Kansas City Missouri, the Islamic American University is an institution for education, training, Da’wa and studies in the fields of Islamic Shari’a, its fundamentals, linguistics, and sciences.

ALIMY (A Leadership Institute for Muslim Youths)
provides separate residential summer programs for Muslims boys and girls ages 13 to 17 - helping our young people to develop a greater sense of understanding, ownership and pride in the American Muslim identity.

Taft
Where would you rather live? Tel Aviv or Rhiyad?

Upper East Side of Manhattan or Dearborn, Michigan?

Not all Muslims are Terrorists

But 99% of ALL terrorists are Muslim.

May I Suggest ...
that everyone on the thread today read Brigitte Gabriel's new book, "They Must Be Stopped."

I see a lot of hyperbole here this morning, and a great deal of fiction vs. fact. This book will open your eyes to see the Islamist threat for what it is, not only in Europe but a gathering storm here in our beloved U.S.

Think about this for a moment: suppose you live in Dearborn, MI, but you are not a Muslim. Your sleep is disturbed one morning by the call to prayer from the Muslim mosque in your neighborhood. You complain about the noise (your own church carillon was silenced by those who did not wish to be disturbed) only to be told that the imam had every right to call the faithful to prayer - 5 times a day - and you had no rights to your own religious preferences.

It's happening here and it is coming on like gang busters. At last count, there were 62 mosques in Houston, TX, alone. And, here's another thing: someone said the Islamists are in a minority. Well, how does 10% of 1.4 billion sound to you?

I shall never, never submit!


British Banning Fairy Tales

A story based on the Three Little Pigs fairy tale has been turned down by a government agency's awards panel as the subject matter could offend Muslims.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/7204635.stm

Cultural History
Objectively speaking, stronger cultures have historically eradicated weaker ones. Europe used to be pagan. The Roman legions came and imposed their brand of imperialism on Europe. When the Roman Emperor converted to Christianity, this led to Christianization of areas under Roman leadership.

When Islam originated in the Arabian Peninsula, it spread quickly through that region. Arabs continued their conquests into Europe, where they were turned back by Martel, "The Hammer".

Now it seems Islam is going to continue its conquest.

My issue with this, as a Christian, is not that culture A is taking over from culture B. My problem is that Western Christian cultures, while having had a bloody history of their own, has finally matured into free societies in the best classical liberal sense. First of all, in the Bible there were always the seeds of this, since Christ Himself said "Give to Cesar what is Cesar's", which lays the foundation for separation of church and state.

In the Koran, and in the Hadith, there is no such doctrine or statement. So orthodox Muslims strive for a society in which the church and state are one unit, as in Saudi Arabia. Obviously this sets up a tension within a religious Muslim in a Western country.

Religious Christians such as myself don't have this tension in the same degree. While we desire, perhaps, a more Christian culture, at the same time we are not facing inherent conflicts re. a secular government that gives equal rights to all faiths and people. Orthodox Muslims, however, face a much greater internal conflict in this regards, since their religion is not just about personal faith, but corporate faith.

There is a chance that Islam will evolve, just like Christianity has, into a more tolerant religion. The problem, however, is that while The Bible has textual confirmation of these impulses, the Koran does not.

Fear of Muslims
The percentage of Muslims in the US is about one half a percent. It seems we have more to fear from other things, like gangs, Crits and bloods, that them, doesn't it?

Unrelated but interesting..

"I heard its pretty wild - 100 to 150 murders [by gangs] a year and the city [Naples, Italy] has about 1 million population !
Highest murder rate in Europe !

The fact of the matter is
that we are dealing here with two opposing and irreconcilably different ideologies.

Inherent in the one is the rights and worth of the individual, freely given and always subject to the individual's continued assent.

Inherent in the other is the subjegation of the individual's will and consent to the collective consciousness of the cult and is irrevocable upon pain of death.

Wherever the two have come into direct contact, social chaos has always resulted. Indeed, in the majority of cases of armed conflicts going on in the world today, From the Phillipines to Thailand to Africa and Europe, Islam is involved as an aggressor.

Taft
These Saudi funded schools teach their students a virulent hatred towards Jews and Christians, among others.

If you are truly open-minded, I suggest that you do a bit of reading over the recent text-book exposures from the Islamic Saudi Academy in Northern Virginia.

They teach the Sura from the Qur’an that says that Christians and Jews are the descendents of apes and pigs.

A Religion of Peace?

"He who fights that Islam should be superior fights in Allah's cause"

Monthly Jihad Report August
---------------------------
August 2008 Jihad Attacks: 205
Countries: 21
Religions: 5
Dead Bodies: 1102
Critically Injured: 1811

September Jihads
----------------
9/17/2008 (Khyber, Pakistan) - The Taliban abduct and murder an Afghan refugee.
9/17/2008 (Dera Ismail Khan, Pakistan) - A woman is murdered by Islamic bombers in a residential area.
9/17/2008 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Eighteen Iraqis are killed in a series of Mujahideen bombing and shooting attacks.
9/17/2008 (Sanaa, Yemen) - Women and children are among the casualties when al-Qaeda militants stage a coordinated attack on the US embassy.
9/17/2008 (Yala, Thailand) - A father and son are brutally gunned down by Religion of Peace militants.
9/17/2008 (Mindanao, Philippines) - Moro Islamists attack a group of local soldiers, killing one.



Obama will bring 'Hope' to the world

"Islam can be compatible with the modern world. It can be a partner with the Christian & Jewish & Hindu & Buddhist faiths in trying to create a better world." Barak Obama 2008 Democratic Compassion Forum at Messiah College Apr 13, 2008

Obama is either naive, clueless, insane or doing coke again.

WDS
I will do some looking into that, thanks again. If those Saudis are messing about here in the US, we really should be getting angry with them, seeing how they all ready messed up Afghanistan with their Wahabbi junk.

HAMAS supports Barack Obama
Hamas Covenant 1988
The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement
18 August 1988

In The Name Of The Most Merciful Allah

"Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)."


To ldopas (voice from the UK)
"We are not a religious country"

It seems clear to me that YOU have not visited many Muslim nations. If you had, you would realize that the majority of them ARE religious nations. And the official religion is Islam. Why? Because in Islam, the religion and the People are ONE. That is why apostasy is punished by death. That is why civil law MUST be based upon Koranic law.

Now, let me try to break this down to you.

You are a democratic nation, yes? At the bottom line, political power stems from the People.
If and when a majority of the People become Muslim, then they can pass the laws THEY wish. And since the Koran expects the COMMUNITY to be Islamic, there will be an extremely powerful push to conform civil to religious law. Buddy, there is really NO concept of the validity of non-religious government in Islam. Turkey has made a courageous attempt in this direction, and are suffering increasing levels of unrest in reaction.

In Christianity you have teachings such as 'render unto Caesar'. In Islam you have 'render the Jizya'. Please read VERY CAREFULLY the description of how non-Muslims are treated in Iran, at the link below:

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35497.htm


I know you will not believe all this, because you do not comprehend the power of those deeply-held religious beliefs which are unleavened by Christian kindness. But you will learn. And as your nation adopts Islam-inspired anti-porn laws, stricter anti-decency laws, tougher restrictions on public speech, etc, you will tell yourself that these are good things, that they clean up society. That will be true -- at first. But at some point those laws will start to encroach on your traditional democratic principles.

Europe is irrelevent
I have become more and more convinced of the irrelevency of Europe, yet it continues to baffle me that many of the psuedo-intellectuals still view the contintent with prestige. Western Europe lost its way years ago. Eastern Europe having stood up to communism seems a little better.
From a Christian perspective the continent is once again , and a risky one at that. Africa and parts of Asia are more Christian friendly.

HAMAS supports Barack Obama
"We should not forget to remind every Moslem that when the Jews conquered the Holy City in 1967, they stood on the threshold of the Aqsa Mosque and proclaimed that "Mohammed is dead, and his descendants are all women."

Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep." Hamas Covenant 1988
------------------------------------------------

HAMAS is an acronym for Harakat al-Muqawammah al-Islammiyya. It means Islamic Resistance Movement.

The terrorist group is an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood - the same organization that has spawned most fundamentalist Islamic hate groups.

The Muslim Brotherhood is a Sunni, Salafist, Islamist, religious movement that originated in Egypt.

It seeks the forced imposition of fundamentalist Muslim social, moral, legal, religious, and political mandates on the world.

To Idopas
"Europe, in your lack of knowledge and ignorance is nothing like you carcature. It is a wealthy, democratic, intelligent place."


Tell me, neighbor -- where were your 'London bombers' born and raised?

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/851/

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_wires/2006Aug11/0,4 675,BritainHomegrownTerror,00.html

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11062007/news/worldnews/britain s_terror_teens_112502.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/1 1/10/AR2006111000138_2.html

Baby, you are living in the past. The Britain you describe (the WW2 one, AND the one that screwed up the Middle East with its imperial machinations after WW1) just doesn't exist anymore. It has changed, and it will change more. The changes will increasingly come from the most dynamic, growing part of the population.

You belittle a 'couple of courts set up to deal with minor issues'? Well, how doggone many of those Muslim courts were there twenty years ago?

The irony is that you, with you 'broader knowledge of the world', cannot see clearly what is happening in your own nation.

sacrifice of vs sacrifice for babies
Hectorman
You make a poor point when you continual make this a control of reproduction issue
The facrt is men and women both sacrifice their children in order to achieve financial, political and social prowress.


sacrifice of vs sacrifice for babies
We are 50,000,000 citizens short here.
Islam is not making this mistake against nature.
Hectorman
Men like to have abortion cover. They vote for it all the time.
A few hundred bucks and "mistake" erased.
You make a poor point when you continually make this a control of reproduction issue
The fact is both men and women sacrifice their children in order to achieve financial, political and social prowress, rather than sacrifice for their children.
Selfishness, including the greed of the planned parenthood agenda is at the route of this problem.
But I don't think Islam will be as tolerant as Christianity has been toward this issue.
Why do you think they take out the UN offices on what seems to be a regular basis?
Islam has an incredibly different view of reproductive health than that of the UN.



RG
Hamas may support Obama, but so does Isreal,

Germany
UK
Scandinavia
Italy
France

the rest of the world

Atheists Sow Their Graves
What do you expect? While so-called civilized secular citizens blithely abort their offspring the Muslims continue their high birthrates. The sophisticated Europeans abandoned Christianity some time ago and Nature abhors a vacuum. Presto, Islamic religion arrives to fill that vacuum.

"God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap."

The Sun Sets on the English Empire
Idopas, what you wrote on this site just confirms my long-held opinion that the once proud England, which ruled a third of the world, is populated now with effete snobs, with upper class accents and little stomach now for the defense of western values. Fortunately we descendents of God-fearing English, and other, colonists still have the cojones to fight for our country and our tradition of freedom.

Sic transit gloria!

Mary Jo

Hi! Mary Jo..

No it's a good point that I make because it's a fact. Birthrates below replacement levels will doom any race of people to extinction.

And only a racist would want to see ANY race of human beings vanish off the planet.(You're NOT a racist.)

It is a fact of life and of history that when the majority of women in any nation are given the choice between birthing and raising say 3 or 4 children (which is hard expensive work)
and being free of all that to use their time and money for other things that they will choose to use their time and money for other things.

That means they will choose to have just one child or possibly two...and in many cases no babies at all.

For any race to merely replace the death rate each woman of childbearing age has to produce 2.2 babies (on average.)

The birthrates of Europe have dropped so far below even the 2.2 replacement rate that the nations of Europe will vanish off the Earth
in just a few decades.

The "men" of Europe have let the European women make the decesion to kill the nations of Europe by refusing to have babies. Abortion and "the pill" and the feminists and weak spineless "men" have done all that.

Mary Jo, I KNOW that raising babies is a joint sacrifice. You misunderstand my point here.
I love women. Heck, I'm married with three children and 7 grandchildren.

But when "men" give feminists the power...their race comes to an end. Extinction. No babies. It is an iron law of history: The future belongs to the fertile.

The nations of the West will either reverse the gains of feminism OR they will vanish off the face of the Earth. It is what it is.

Best Regards To You,
And God Bless America

hectormannjack@yahoo.com

On Birthrates and Europe

This thing here about birtrates is NOT a secret.All the birthrates of the nations of Europe are in the public records.

Remember that 2.2 births per woman of childbearing age is required just to break even with the race's death rate.

For 10 years Germany's birtrate has stood at 1.3 ,far below the 2.2 needed to merely REPLACE the present population.

For 25 years Italy's birtrate has been below replacement levels, and is now at 1.2

Great Britain has a birthrate of 1.66

All...every single one...of the nations of Europe, EXCEPT MUSLIM ALBANIA, have birtrates far far below even replacement levels.

The White European races are doomed to extinction if they do not reverse feminist ideology, and return women to the home birthing and raising babies. Sounds crazy, right?

Will the nations of the West ever do this? NO!
The genie of feminism is now out of the bottle...and they'll NEVER get this genie back into that bottle again.

So? So enjoy your family and your life as best you can for as long as you can. If you're a White European you're only 4 percent of the Earth polulation anyway...and feminist ideology has killed your race. Sorry!

But as Mark Steyn said: "If you want to be a powerful race in the future, you have to show up and be there in the future."

And that requires babies...lots of babies.

hectormannjack@yahoo.com


Abortion is killing our culture
Do the math.

50 men
2 of the 50 men each have 8 children who again each have 8 children who again each have 8 children
2 of the men have 1024 descendants
2 x 8 = 16 x 8 = 128 x 8 = 1024
48 of the men have an average of 2 children who each have an average of 2 children who each have 2 children The 48 men have 304 descendants: 2 x 48 = 76 x 2 = 152 x 2 = 304

Most of the 48 men who had two children set their children up to be successful in business without regard to moral teaching or religious teaching
The 2 men not only make the teaching of their religion primary, but will kill their children if they leave the religion - no options here. Furthermore this is
a minimum number of probable descendants, because they are polygamists.
Who has the majority now?


To Hectormann
"Well I prefer the idea that right makes might."

It can, but not all might comes from right, and not all right involves might. Christ didn't conquer the Roman Empire using a sword. Having said that, I recognize the need to use controlled violence -- I am an active-duty soldier in the 36th Engineer Brigade, and have deployed to Iraq twice and got back from 15 months in Afghanistan in June.

"As a traditional Christian you are my brother in Christ...even though you may have doubts about ME !! Hahah ah ah"

Christ said 'By their fruits you shall know them'. I haven't seen enough of your acts to have any basis for opinion. You are more concerned with matters of race than I think healthy, however.

"Also as a traditional Christian you are aware of "Just War Doctrine", and that the people of God have a long history of fighting wars...
...against the Muslims..
...against the Caananites...
..against the Nazis.."

Umm. First, the only examples of 'Just War' that we have in the bible are those directly ordered by God. Humans don't have the authority to declare the sorts of war that God did. Under no circumstance have we the authority to destroy or drive out whole populations (although the one who created us DOES). The war against the nazis was political, not religious, since most German soldiers were also Christian and the issue was NOT a religious one. The war against the Muslims was pretty complex -- several of the issues were not religious. We can go into length on this by email, if you wish.

"...their "rights" usually turn out to be "code" for taking prayer out of the public schools and the Ten Commandments off public spaces...etc"

Yet protecting their *legimate* rights are a matter of concern to all citizens.



To Tallil2long

I would enjoy talking to you about this.
Please feel free to email me anytime you want to.

"...I am an active duty soldier in the 36th Engineer Brigade..."
__Tallil2long
Reply: You have my greatest respect and appreciation.

PS
I'm not overly concerned about race...I just don't want my race to become extinct.

I don't want any race to become extinct.....well, maybe the French..haha hah
No, just kidding..

hectormannjack@yahoo.com

hectorman It is NOT feminism
Sarah Palin proves that.
It is the cowardice,selfishness and greed of society which coerces the killing of unborn children and diminishes the Judeo Christian foundations of our government.
Judeo Christian values which teach that every human being is endowed with the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
The challenge of our nation in regards to Islam is to ensure the freedom of the expression of the Islamic religion without
capitulating to its oppressive rules.
But the abortion rate is undermining our ability to remain a free nation.
The question is do we have the right to freedom under these cruel
conditions. Pope Benedict has said, "The womb has become a place of unspeakable violence."

The Plan
The take-over of Western Civilization has been in the Works for many Centuries. Time is on the side of the Islamic Jihadists. They don't Care, if it takes another Century, but, alas,-- it won't. Multi-Culturists and Politically Correct Gov'ts  will insure that the take-over is Completed within 20 or so years, [at the outside]. The White Race will be extinct, like the Dodo Bird. Minorities do not [almost NEVER] believe in abortions. Every Child born, is another Soldier of the Revolution. WHY do you think OBAMA is in favor of Abortion on Demand?? How many minority women have you EVER Heard Of, that HAD an abortion??? I don't know of any. Why Indeed , do the Muslim Leaders of the world, ENDORSE HIS ASCENTION??? They KNOW that He will be sympathetic to THE PLAN!! He is a Major Player in the Islamic Conquest of the World!!

Mary Jo

Mary Jo

"..it is not feminism...Sarah Palin proves that...it is the cowardice, selfishness and greed of society...(that is behind abortions)
__Mary Jo

Mary Jo, Sarah has 5 children. A vast...VAST..majority of White European female Americans have one or two or no children.
The White European races are not reproducing themselves.

It is a very simple idea here: Women have to produce at least 2.2 babies per woman of childbearing age in order to break even with the death rate.

If White European females in America do not return to the home and birth and nurture babies
at birthrate levels sufficient to grow the White European races, then we will die out.

Feminist ideology has convinced enough women that doing that is not something they should be concerned about .

So this IS a feminist issue.

And yes greed and selfishness drives it. Women are using their time, energy, and money for a better standard of living and not for the birthing and raising of babies.

Btw, the Pope was right...the womb in America is a place of violence.

hectormannjack@yahoo.com


Hectorman: that's oversimplification
The message of zero population growth is taken to all people as a means to save earth This shows an ignorance of science but that is another argument.
the inculcation of people to zpg is taking place everywhere - but it sees very limited succes with Islam.
Muslims, for all the violent solutions woven throughout their religion, see the threat of zero population growth for what it is.
they would rather carry water in a bucket than trade children for indoor plumbing.
Here, children are traded to save face, to extend a portfolio, to get a degree, etc. sometimes for the woman, sometimes for the man, sometimes for both.
There are stay at home moms who limit their families for all kinds of reasons.
The problem is misplaced priorities and a confusion in society about what makes society.




Roy are you for real?
You need to read up on the genocide against black babies through abortion.
The percentage of black babies aborted per black citizen is higher than the percentage of white babies per white citizens.
But it is an offense punishable by death in Islam.
Which is why Islamic numbers are growing at such an enormous rate.

Roy are you for real?
You need to read up on the
genocide against black babies through abortion.
The percentage of black babies aborted per black citizen is higher than the percentage of white babies per white citizens.
But it is an offense punishable by death in Islam.
Which is why Islamic numbers are growing at such an enormous rate.

Europeans are to weak
to stop this. They will let this happen.

Mary Jo


Mary Jo

"Hectormann: That's over simplication"
__Mary Jo

Mary Jo, there is nothing to over simplify here. It is a fact that if the women of any race stop having enough babies to replace the deaths in the population, that their race will eventually die out and vanish off the face of the planet.

All the other things you mentioned are irrelevant to the above demographic fact.

Babies ARE the future. No babies no future.


I read your post at Sep. 19 2:01 PM three times.
I have no idea what you are trying to say.

My ONLY point here is that the races of White Europeans (Germans, English, Russians, Italians, French, etc etc) are dying out with below replacement level birthrates, and that we will become extinct if White European women do not resume their roles of birthing and nurturing larger numbers of children.

Nothing you have said so far has refuted this.

It is a fact that feminist ideology has put into the minds of the women of White European descent, the notion that they no longer ought to be concerned with the survival of their race.

And so they persue careers and surplus money and sometimes fame etc etc and neglect the birthing and nurturing of enough children to even keep their race from becoming extinct.

If you want to call that over simplification...then go ahead.

It is still a fact.

hectormannjack@yahoo.com

To Mary Jo, Hectormann
There IS another facet of this. That is, women in many or most Muslim nations have no *choice* on how many children to have. They often have few choices in most other areas, too -- such as the choice to drive a car, the choice to work outside the home, etc. Women, in short, are effectively viewed as chattel...

I'm sure none of us want things to be like that, do we?

I never told my wife how many kids we ought to have, she never told me how many we ought to have. We just agreed on three.

To Tallil2long


Tallil2long

"...The war against the Nazis was political, not religious, since most German soldiers were also Christian and the issue was not a religious one..."
__Tallil2long at Sep. 19 12:59 PM

Reply: I would argue that the war was both political and religious. I do not see how one can seperate politics (which is what one does)
from religion (which is what one believes about God, man, and the world)

I would argue that WWII was a Christian war, by which I mean that the Church was not only protected from the crushing advances of Nazism,
but also gained freedom to preach and build churches and thereby Christian families in parts of the Earth where the gospel would have been banned had the Nazis won WWII.

The fact that many, perhaps even a majority,
of Germany's soldiers were Christian is a sad
fact, but one that does not mitigate against my points above. They simply followed the wrong leaders down the wrong moral road. (I have always felt sorry for my German brothers in Christ that were duped by Hitler ~~ it is sad to me that so many were killed in such large numbers simply because they followed the wrong leaders. They were brave fighters too.)

Would I have helped kill them? You bet! Just as Christian brother killed Christian brother in the American Civil War. We had to kill our Christian brothers in WWII. Better to do that than to let Nazism rule the Earth.

I know that sounds kinda hard and tough, but this world is what it is. They chose to follow Hitler and they died in the millions for choosing that.

Well, at least all the true born again German soldiers went to heaven.

Remember what Paul Newman said in the movie Hombre just before he was shot to death:
"We all die, it's just a question of when."

Hah hahaha...Some comfort, Hombre! ...but not much, right?

God Bless America.
God Bless the United States Marine Corps.

hectormannjack@yahoo.com

Tallil2long

Tallil2long

Good point to raise about not wanting women to become chattel.

Agreed. Totally agree, too.

Feminism has to be rolled back, not with the force of law, but in the heart's desire of women to once again find their deepest fullfillment in being mothers and home makers.

The law can help on the abortion issue by reversing Roe v. Wade.

But the real change has to be in the hearts of women. They have to strongly desire to do what their mothers (or grandmothers) did, which was to spend most of their younger years raising larger families.

In sum, they have to reject feminist ideology.

Heh heh, if they don't (and they probably will not) then it's goodby White Europeans.

A man can't make 2 plus 2 equal 8

And no race can survive on the Earth without the birthing of babies.

hectormannjack@yahoo.com

PS
Tallil2long

Did you see my note down thread 'bout WWII ?
(smile)

Any Manowar Fans Out there ?


Anybody out there like Manowar ?

I don't usually like metal bands, but these boys have 95 percent very uplifting lyrics to their "songs."

(1)I Believe

(2) Heart of Steel

(3) Swords In The Wind

(4) Call To Arms

Some of the best lyrics I've ever heard.
If ya like to fight for what is right, that is!
~~ Well, ya can interpret them that way :-) ~~

God Bless America
hectormannjack@yahoo.com

Tallil2long Hectorman Mary Jo
This is not an argument between Judeo-Christian ethics and Islam.
Western Civilization rose to prominence in a search for purpose and truth.
Secular thought denied the idea of purpose and the inherent value of the individual, leading to a concern for the present only and losing a sense of future.
Inherent in Islam and Judeo Christian thought is an idea of hope based on the future.
ZPG (zero population growth) is based on despair based on bad science.
The third world asks for education and jobs.
They are offered abortion and contraceptives. They haven't lost their sense of the future.
There, women work to feed their children not to buy a car. But they still work and have children.

based on despair based on bad science.
great definition of ZPG

Iambeau

Iambeau

"...Secular thought denied the idea of purpose and the inherent value of the individual, leading to a concern for the present only and losing a sense of the future..."
__Iambeau at 5:17 PM

Reply: Exactly!
___________________________________

Btw, somewhat off the subject:
Did you know that a wife in Europe/America can kill her husband's SON in her womb just on a whim, if she decides to, and her husband has no legal recourse to stop her from doing that?

In fact, the courts will jail him if he tries to physically stop her from doing that.

That is a huge transfer of power from the male to the female in the West.

I mention that because it is indicitave of the demographic mess that Europe finds itself in today. Sure, few wives would do that, but that's not the point, the point is, the laws of Europe/America are such that they could if they wanted to....in the 9th month of pregnancy too...if they could find a doctor to do that grisely work.
_____________________________________

Anyway, your main point in your post seems to be that concern only for the present while losing a sense of the future is based on despair.

I think you are 100 percent right.

God Bless America
God Bless the United States Marine Corps.
God Bless All the U S Military

hectormannjack@yahoo.com

Mary Jo


Mary Jo

Hah hahah, I have yet to figure out what we disagree on...hahahah ah... MAYBE NOTHING !!!


Do you know ??

Cause I sure don't !! (smile)

hectormannjack@yahoo.com


To lambeau
I probably will regret this, but I'll say this just once.

In my personal opinion, the 'secular' viewpoint in inevitably going to lose to strong religious sentiment. The atheist/secularists don't know it yet, but they will find out that those with a clear sense of purpose (besides the purpose of 'I want') will push them aside. This will happen because secularists will look to their selfish interests while others are having babies and training children.

Okay. Here's the bad bit. The bible depicts a coming catastrophe, in which the majority won't heed sound doctrine (2 Tim 4:3). I believe this refers to the growing secularization of the west which will render it, by and large, weak and victim to denial (typified by Idiopas) versus populations who still BELIEVE in something, are still DEDICATED to something, and are still willing to kill for whatever chimera their leaders place in front of them. Then we will have the wars and tribulations of the End Times, in which (surprise) Israel is attacked (yet again) by the Arab Muslims.
What saves dedicated followers of Christ, and the remnant of Israel, from this mess?

Not your valiant warriors, Hectormann. This is the final battle in which God has to pull the chestnuts out of the fire.

Why will Christianity 'fail'? Because Christianity is not intended to conquer the world. Rather, it is intended to separate out those who choose to follow the true God, and present at least a possibility of redemption to those in rebellion.

Christians alone have hope of victory even in the midst of defeat, because our Help is not human.

This is not an excuse to give up, to not care, to treat all Muslims as murderous enemies. Rather, it is an opportunity to maintain our moral standards, do our best, and not freak out when things don't seem to be going our way.

To Tallil2long


Tallil2long at 6:19 PM

I respect your views on echatology, but know that all Christians do not agree that Pre-milliennialism is the correct interpretation of the Christian future here on Earth.

Some of the Church's most outstanding theologians men who have written the great systematics on the Christian faith, and who have held up and defended the great and true doctrine of the Plenary Verbal Inspiration of the Holy Bible, God's word...do NOT agree with your conclusion regarding the Christian future.

...and there is boo coo evidence from the Holy Scriptures to support their position...
(boo coo means a whole bunch haha hah)

There is a very reputable view that holds that the Church will Christianize the world, gradually and VERY incrementally BEFORE...note that I said...BEFORE....our Lord Jesus Christ returns.

"Hectormann's warriors" have already come in handy...and will probably come in handy again before this is all over. (smile)

You sound like a smart fellow...you should examine the evidence for this view...before you lock down on Pre-mill eschatology.

The evidence is from men who are from the Christian mainstream...no lunatic fringe here at all..

God Bless Tallil2long :-)
hectormanmjack@yahoo.com

To Tallil2long

"...Why will Christianity fail? Because Christianity is not intended to conquer the world..."
__Tallil2long

Gee, I hate ta hear ya say that!

I know ya believe in the Bible ~~I figured that out ~~ and I can point you to some very strong evidence that Christianity will in fact conquer the world.

Listen now!! NOT...I say...NOT with the sword..
NOT through military wars...but through the power of the gospel of our Lord..

...wars...the sword..."Hectormann's warriors" hah hah ah are for defensive measures only..
to prevent the good from being over run by evil men, for example World War II

God Bless The Church
hectormannjack@yahoo.com

hectorman i think we disagree on one pt
Feminism is a contrived term being used by the ZPG contingent(men and women) to achieve the ultimate goal of not having to be bothered with those they consider the less worthy in the world (that is, less worthy than themselves)including their own unborn.

And that is why Islam will continue to increase
in its dominance of culture. Because Islam will not accept the ZPG agenda.

They understand the power of numbers in the tribe.

Children strengthen society. If things continue in this manner, Islam will conquer us under our Constitution.
Because we capitulated to a fabricated "quality of life" - fabricated by marketing experts who want us to invest in things that turn to dust rather than children with immortal souls. As a good friend once told me - the only thing we produce on earth which will be with us for eternity.


Too true.
Too true. Muslims are demanding an exceptional treatment here in Britain that is going to do more than the British National Party ever could to push tolerance to breaking point and beyond. If this country isn't to their liking, perhaps they could domicile themselves somewhere that is more to the taste of their ideological palate. Richard Dawkins is also climbing on the bandwagon, using tensions to fuel his own sinister bandwagon: he recently complained that Muslims were bringing creationism into Europe.

Frugal Dougal

hectorman
Agreed that the sword is to defend the innocents of all faiths.
Agreed that Christianity is not to conquer the world, but to convert the world.
In Europe and the United States "femi"men write laws to insure their short term pleasures have no long term responsibilities. The issue returns to self-interest.

We Are Losing Europe to Islam
Listen to the lady: "I say we ignore the spread of Islamic law across Europe, from the schoolroom to the courtroom, at our peril". Being of European extraction, having immigrated to the U.S. at 12, having gained citizenship, having being in government employment for many years, and having seen first hand, over 2 years, how islam functions in Saudi Arabia I can unequivocally say that what Ms West is saying is “NO BULL”! The religion doesn’t even deserve the term; it’s a backward, extremely vindictive, hypocritical, and thoroughly offensive to freedom loving people, especially women. For my part, I don’t want to see one of those abominations of a mosque anywhere close to me but, more than that, I want to see every vestige of that Islamic cancer eradicated from the planet. I’m proud to say that I descend directly from an ancestor who distinguished himself in the second crusade by personally cutting down, without mercy, 750 saracens in a single battle and his blood courses through my veins. Now that’s progress!!!

tllil2long
Christians were not commanded to conquer, but to convert.
But the results would be the same.
To proscribe a limit to the "harvest" might seem presumptuous.

O. 760 out of how many?
Didn't we lose that?
And you're in America?
And they are still there.

ANOTHER REASON TO VOTE FOR...
President Elect McCain and Vice President Elect Palin. We need strong, strong leadership in Washington in this day and age.

I was appalled when I read where England allows Sharia law in civil matters. It was in an English Internet paper and the people there wrote on their blogs that they were disgusted by PM Brown and what he is allowing in their country.

America, we need to be on alert! We need to stand for our independence and sovereignty. We need to maintain "our" laws and only "our" laws in these days. We cannot afford to have citizens come into our country to be citizens of our country and continue their laws and their rules! We must step up to the plate and be counted.

I believe the only man that can do that for America in this hour...is President Elect McCain. He loves his country, he fought for his country and he will continue to fight for the sovereignty and independence of our country!

The Flim Flam Obamaman is not a vetted candidate. No one in the Democratic party checked his affiliations with anti-American forces. He is a dangerous man and should not be allowed anywhere near the White House let alone sitting in it as our President.

I, implore you to step back and take a look at his credentials, his friendships, his past, his history...I did...and millions of others did...and he is found wanting!

I will vote for the man who will continue Democracy in our country, not destroy it.

President Elect McCain and Vice President Elect Palin have my vote in November. I am also voting for Republican representatives so that they will have the power to make the changes and reforms that America needs and wants to maintain her greatness!

"FLIM FLAM": DECEPTION, FRAUD, DOUBLE DEALING.

To Mary Jo


Hello again Mary Jo

"Hectorman, I think we disagree on one Point."
__Mary Jo at 7:10 PM

Well if we do, it's not in that post up there!
Hah hahah I agree with EVERYTHING you said up there...and in spades too.

Actually, I agreed so much that I printed your posts for my files.

I had never stopped to think about what you said at the end of your post about children
being the only thing in this life that we could carry with us when we leave...their immortal souls, that is.

I really appreciate you saying that. I like that thought very much.

God Bless America
God Bless Mary Jo

hectormannjack@yahoo.com


Iambeau


Iambeau at 8:03 PM

10-4 on all three of your points !

Right on !!

eileen
sorry, eileen. there are many good reasons to vote against obama, but few reasons to vote for mccain. that he will stop the flood of immigration is not one of them. he is a certified proponent of illegal immigration, and if he is elected, he will continue the suicidal policy of refusing to enforce thge immigration laws. i expect that sort of behavior from a democrat, but that is what we are getting from republicans, who should know better

To lambeau
If all the world were converted by hearing the gospel, Christ wouldn't have to return in a battle-setting, would he?

But sure, I certainly don't claim to understand perfectly. My view is just as likely to be completely off as it is to be accurate, I reckon.

Anyway, God can do as he pleases; after all, he's the king!

We cannot ignore Europe
Like many Americans, I despise the anti-american slander that routinely is thrown at us from the european press...not to mention the vitriolic propaganda allowed within the UN (while we pick up most of the financial burden for the world's poor and spill our heroic military blood to defend freedom).

While it is tempting to allow europe to sink into the swamp of islamic intolerance and violence, we do so at our own peril. Mary Jo is right, as the muslim population grows in europe, they will achieve dominance without confrontation. The we will have a combined middle east and european islamic block with a military and nuclear capability that approximates ours.

Europeans will eventually wake up to what is happening and it will be in our best interest to help them.

Sad. but true?
Whether true or not, I dont know, but I've recently read that there are more Mosques than
churches in England. I hope it isn't true.
As I have read, England has allowed Sharia law in certain districts. I've also read that the
U.S has 37 "enclaves" that want Sharia Law: not
our Constitution or state laws: THEIR LAWS.
Our Constitution is very clear on "equal justice for all." We cannot deviate from that for individual sects/groups ideological, ethnic, or religious reasons.
Could there be individual laws, such as Sharia
Law, given to Methodists, Buddhists, Baptists, or Atheists? I cannot work and have a unified nation.
Recently I've read of lawsuits being brought against U.S. publishers/authors. They need prove nothing, and damages are presumed. Some
publishers have rejected material in fear of such a lawsuit and indeed have recalled books already sold/distributed!
That is an attempt for English Law to supercede our Constitutional rights of free speech. We fought the Revolutionary War to free
ourselves from England. Are we NOW to ourselves to again become subject to them? I
think NOT!
I really wish a US publisher/author would fight such a lawsuit through U.S. Courts, all the way to the Supreme Court. Surely, THEY
would have no recourse but to throw the suit out on grounds of "equal justice for all" and
that does NOT include those going through English Courts. That is for U.S. CITIZENS!
'

To carolyn
Let's put this in perspective.
What would Idopas have to say about Baptists demanding their own courts in England? What would our home-grown American liberals have to say about Baptists demanding their own courts here?

Want to bet they would downplay the matter? Want to bet they'd be so understanding?

Of course they wouldn't. But since they ONLY resent Christ, they don't have the sense to fear Islam.

Voltaire
I had liked to know your souces as far as France is concerned

what I wrote on a site that quote this article :

she know that our national education is owned by marxist unions ?
the ones that fire out the veiled muslim girls
no wonder that only muslims hold our ani-semit rates at the western average level when they read such BS
just remember the pic that my favorite moderator brought from Paris TGV station : among the army guis there was a muslim, among the paratroopers in Afghanistan there are muslims, our justice minister is a muslim non-married woman (beautiful) that is pregnant of a foreign former political leader, that she shaked hands with poppe Benedict, Sarkozy is in NY at the moment with his black muslim minister of the human rights, 'a beautiful girl too), that he created university courses for the iman in french laws and language, that only in France there is a kind of mulims pope that represents all the differents muslims interpretations, therefore someone with whom discusing if there are problems, and this pope is for the respect of our laic rules.
may-be it's ok for the other EU countries, cause they let communautarisms developping as inner polititcal counter powers. Not so long ago there was an aggressive advertising among our jewish communauty in order that they leave France for Israel this campain was paid by Israel radicals, A Sharon was their mentor, they got 8000 euros as subvention and 3 month housing gratuity in Israel the majority refused to leave France, cause they are our intellectuels, our media owners, our medical professors, our lawers our business men, and they appreciate our laic country. A few profited of the opportunity, but the 3/4 of them came back, cause they couldn't find a job at their level, and their children didn't want to integrate hebraic religious schools
well this article isn't worth further reading after that ostensible bias statment

Taft and others . . . .

who REFUSE to see the "writing on the wall", and who REFUSE to acknowledge what is SELF-EVIDENT: that Muslims, in a collective sense, DO have a political agenda, and, that their agenda is to change the demographics of the West in order to IMPOSE their own interpretation of ISLAMIC law . . . . are naive fools who deserve their future DHIMMITUDE, if they can avoid losing their heads.

Who indeed. More than one group will ask
The Euros lost Europe. Or are about to.

The same question, regardless of the reasons given to justify the fact we need more illegal aliens to fill the role of burger flippers and gardners to help support the lagging Social Security fund (such as it is), will soon be asked of us.

Or at least part of us. As in--where did Texas, California, Florida, and New Mexico go? Who lost THOSE states?
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