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Thursday, May 08, 2008
Diana West :: Townhall.com Columnist
It's Islamic Jihad, Not Extremism, Uncle Sam
by Diana West
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A few years ago, Harvard psychiatric instructor Kenneth Levin wrote "The Oslo Syndrome: Delusions of a People Under Siege." In this illuminating book, Levin examines the Israeli experience of concessionary negotiations with a "peace partner" openly dedicated to Israel's destruction. He also examines the historical Jewish Diaspora experience in which Jewish populations typically identified with their tormentors and even echoed their antisemitism.

Such interactions are driven by a permanent condition of siege mentality, Levin explains, and clearly manifest two kinds of delusional thinking.

First, there is the fantasy about the intentions of the aggressor (Arab Muslim or European Christian); then, there is the fantasy about changing the aggressor's intentions. Such thinking, Levin says, is common to victims of chronic abuse, particularly children. They fool themselves into thinking that they, the victims, control the abuser by linking the abuse they suffer to their own behavior.

In other words, they believe they cause their own abuse. This mind game, Levin says, actually gives victims a sense of control over situations beyond their control (an abusive parent, for instance). This allows them to avoid feelings of helplessness and despair.

And so the besieged victim pretends: Daddy doesn't really want to hurt me; if I'm a better girl, he'll stop. Israel pretends: Muslims don't really want to destroy our state, and so we'll give them land for peace. Jews in pre-Nazi Europe pretended: The anti-Semites are really right; we deserve a pogrom. Intriguingly, Levin writes:

"But the book's themes have a still broader relevance. Even ostensibly powerful and secure populations, under conditions that entail ongoing threat and vulnerability, can manifest similar trends."

I got a new one for the doctor: a trend of delusion so enormous as to beg for immediate hospitalization and a transfer of power of attorney. Problem is, the patient here is the United States government (USG), which now says: If we just stop talking about jihad, Muslims will neither become jihadis nor sympathize with them.

Such is the message of a crazy new government guide called "Words that Work and Words that Don't" urging federal agencies, including the Department of Homeland Security, to eliminate all references to Islam when discussing, well, Islamic terrorism.

Not only does that mean no more talk of "Islam," it also means no more talk of "jihad." ("Extremism" is the new "jihad.") And forget about the "caliphate." (Try "global totalitarian state.") Even such politically correct terms as "Islamist" and "Islamofascist," which take the traditional teachings of Islam off the hook, are now verboten. And so, more curiously, is the term "Muslim moderate." Says the government: "The term `moderate' has become offensive to many Muslims, who believe that it refers to individuals whom the USG prefers to deal with, and who are only marginally religious."

So "moderates" don't want to look like patsies next to "jihadists," and the USG doesn't want to be insensitive to their needs. Sounds like a rest cure for Uncle Sam is long overdue.

Of course, the no-Islam (no-"moderate") lexicon itself -- which reads like disinformation designed to confuse the American public -- is just scratching the delusional surface. Animating the directive, written with considerable input from unidentified American Muslim "experts," is the delusional belief that what we say (or don't say) has transformative power over Muslim attitudes and behaviors regarding Islamic terrorism, the Islamic caliphate, the advance of Islamic law (Sharia) and the so-called war on (Islamic) terror -- rebranded here, no kidding, as "A Global Struggle for Security and Progress." ("Liberty," Uncle Sam tells us, was "rejected" as "a buzzword for American hegemony.")

The basic idea is to shut the United States up. Or, more diplomatically: "The terminology ... should avoid helping the terrorists by inflating the religious bases and glamorous appeal of their ideology." (Glamorous?) For example, "When we respond loudly (to Osama bin Laden and other jihadists), we raise their prestige in the Muslim world."

"We" raise their prestige? Come on. If a human being thinks turning passenger jets into WMDs is an abomination, nothing anyone says can raise the perpetrators' "prestige." Could our government rationally think otherwise?

Alas, reason escapes the Oslo Syndrome sufferer.

This may explain why Uncle Sam is now actually assuming responsibility for jihad itself: "Our terminology must be properly calibrated to diminish the recruitment efforts of extremists (read: jihadists) who argue the West is at war with Islam."

News flash for Uncle Sam: Islam, in myriad forms, is at war with the West. And even if we never say the words, we can still darn well lose.

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About The Author
Diana West is a contributing columnist for Townhall.com and author of the new book, The Death of the Grown-up: How America's Arrested Development Is Bringing Down Western Civilization.
 
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Liberal Belief
There is a liberal belief that it requires both sides to make a fight (war). If one side refuses, then there can be no fight. All we have to do is refuse to fight a war with Islam and they won't be able to fight a war with us.

It reminds me of the guy who gets hit. As long as he refuses to hit back he continues to get hit until he is killed. You can call that a non-fight if you want to but it doesn't change the outcome. One side wins and the other side loses.

Diplomacy is defined as "telling the other person to go to h*** in such a way that he looks forward to the trip." Unfortuantely for us, the US diplomats consider that wrong. Their idea of diplomacy is to just pay the other more money and hope they will hit someone else.

Disappointing
It is very disappointing that the government continues to use such inflammatory language as "extremist" and "global totalitarian state."

Extremists (fka Jihadists) should be called "differently peaceful."

Those differently peaceful people who direct murderous suicide bombings against innocent civilians should be called "plus differently peaceful."

Those plus differently peaceful people who behead infidels while screaming "God is Great" should be called "double plus differently peaceful."

The global totalitarian state (fka Caliphate) should be called "differently utopian."

GG-AZ
Peacefully Different offends them, last I heard, because they don't want to be noted as being more different than any other suicide bombing neck slashing maniac.


They now prefer the Title "Peacefully Challenged", and it comes with perks.

-They have their own bathroom stalls with private footbaths.

-They have reserved parking in close proximity to any public arena for easy in and out bombings for those Jihadist who are always on the go.

Ok, Ok, I'll stop, I just couldn't help myself.

Now it is coming around to where
this discussion needs to be headed. That is theology, and it will because it must.

The Muslim world is built on a theology. The US and Israel are so secular that they believe the religion of secularism must win over Islamic theology. Guess what, Islam has had 1500 years of practice at theology.

This fight is the vision of Allah versus the secular vision of a secular world and secularism has no weapons to fight with. Secularism, after rejecting the God of scripture, rejected the Fire to fight this fire.

Uncle Sam's amnesia
Regarding Ms West's take on the words of our new diplomacy, we seem to have forgotten the usefulness of plain speaking along with our ability to wage War totally to a conclusion.

already bending to sharia law...
We are already bending to sharia law, the only solution is to severly reduce Muslim immigration into the USA and the West in total.

The only solution, else, your daughter will be wearing a rag on her head and a full potato sack on her body before long.

moslems start WWIII
Too bad you don't know what's going to happen. If you did, you'd be very concerned about your life and find the truth which will make you free instead of going down with your country. eli3.tripod.com

Change you can believe in?
GG-AZ you are wright on about those peaceful jihadists, everyone but especially BO knows "all you need is love, love is all you need."

Mother Nature
If after all we've seen about Islam since 9/11 America has decided to just give up and hope it can survive by yielding to its enemies, then it is righteous for this country to be conquered, enslaved and even destroyed. It is nature's way.

Nature takes out any species that loses its ability to fend for itself. This is done to eliminate that species from the environment so that it does not consume valuable and scarce resources that could be used by stronger, more deserving, life forms. It may seem cruel, but it is the most effective way of advancing only the strong species that truly want to survive.

The West has lost its will to survive. It's become to tired, too fat and overfed, too lazy and too corrupt. It must suffer it's fate.

Perhaps after our herd has been thinned out and all the defeatists, pacifists, and sensitive progressives have been butchered, the West will then be down to only the strong humans that have shown their willingness to live. This will be the best thing for us in the long run.

Secularism cannot win a war of religion!
I realize that secularists may not understand this, but it's true. If you tell a Muslim who is devoted to their faith that they should simply stop believing, you're asking them to change who they are. They aren't going to do that. History has shown that Christianity is the answer. The Roman empire was one of the most cruel societies ever to exist. They exposed small children to the elements just because. They invented crucifixion and used it A LOT. Yet, Christians completely transformed the society in the space of a few hundred years without using WMDs or even swords. They simply lived Christian principles in a world that was dark and sad. They showed that what they were offering was better, even if it might mean you ended up being torn apart by wild beasts.

Secularism will never win against Islam. True Christianity might. History shows it can.

....
-----The Muslim world is built on a theology. The US and Israel are so secular that they believe the religion of secularism must win over Islamic theology. Guess what, Islam has had 1500 years of practice at theology.----

Secularism is not synonymous with non-religious.

Re: 45 Caliber
A man or woman after my own heart! ;)

Right
Secularism is not synonymous with non-religion is is irreligious. It is materialistic to the core choosing the worship of creation and the creature in place of the Creator.

at our back door
It would seem our leaders are commited to our destruction.

Iran, has made serious inroads into Central and South America. The nutjobs alliance with Chavez is a serious problem.


Israel has also faced indirect scorn from across the Atlantic, when earlier this year Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez pronounced neighboring Columbia the "Israel of South America" in his attempt to legitimize the ordering of Venezuelan troops to the border .

"We aren't going to permit Colombia to become the Israel of these lands. ... Uribe, we aren't going to permit you." The reference to Israel comes from U.S. support of Columbia's attacks on the Marxist FARC terrorists in the region.

The news comes as a State Department official expressed concern that Iran is using Latin America as a place to potentially plan attacks against the U.S."

These comments come as relations between Iran and Venezuela took another step forward this week. Reports indicate that Iran has established weekly shipping routes to Venezuelan and Cuban ports. The first shipment is planned from Bandar Abbas Port to Venezuela and Cuba on May 16 though the contents of that shipment remain unclear.

Iranian President Ahmadinejad and Hugo Chavez spoke by phone earlier this week to plan new meetings to boost cooperation between the two countries.

"Presidents Ahmadinejad and Chavez agreed to meet as soon as possible to continue boosting their industrial, scientific and technological development plans in benefit of their two nations," the Venezeulan foreign ministry said in a statement. Ahmadinejad also reportedly congratulated Chavez for Venezuela's "victory over ExxonMobil, and ratified his solidarity with Venezuela's fight to secure its natural resources."



Oil
I have read reports that it would take only a small drop in our consumption of oil to create big problems for the nutjob and Chavez. Both are overextended financially and having to buy off the people.

So how come we are funding the war against ourselves?



"The alarming rhetoric comes amidst new reports that Iran has been providing Hezbollah facilities to train Iraqi militants. U.S. military spokesman Colonel Donald Bacon told journalists, "We have multiple detainees who state Lebanese Hezbollah are providing training to Iraqis in Iranian (Qods force) training camps near Tehran." The Qods are a wing of the Islamic Republic's Revolutionary Guards and are a source of funding and training for Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr's Mehdi Army militia.

Also, evidence presented last week by Iraqi officials to the Iranians in Tehran of weapons smuggling and meddling in Iraq, was met with strong denials. According to Haidar al-Abadi, a member of the ruling United Iraqi Alliance, "The Iranian side was hurt" by the allegations. The evidence included Iranian missiles found in Basra .

Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei addressed a rally in the Iranian city of Shiraz, and vowed not to bow to the West. "The enemies of the Islamic system imagine that by hatching an economic plot and threatening with sanctions they can undermine the perseverance of Iranians..But the great nation of Iran will once again foil this plot just like it has overcame economic sanctions over the last thirty years." He continued, "Have you not tested the Iranian nation? We will continue on our path with power and will not allow the oppressors to deny this nation's right."

JD's Best Looking Son
"The West has lost its will to survive."

YAWN.

"Perhaps after our herd has been thinned out and all the defeatists."

Are you willing to man'up and pay more taxes for the war on terror? This country deserves it.

Let's hope this is not simply more Drama Queenin!

Iran/Chavez
They are trying to work it out so they don't have to sell to us. what's up with our "leaders"? We should have gotten our own oil out of the ground yesterday.

Instead we get open borders, appeasement and stupidity.


"A possible Israel-Syria peace agreement brokered by the Turkish suffered an apparent set-back when the Syrians said it would not sever ties with Iran and Hezbollah as part of any deal.

Syrian analyst Dr. Samir Taqi said in a television interview that, "it would be naive to think Syria will neglect or abandon its strategic alliances that do not stem from the Arab-Israeli conflict." Taqi is said to be well- connected to Syrian authorities. The comment comes after Israel signaled its willingness to give up the Golan Heights in exchange for peace. In return, Israel wanted Syria to stop arming Hezbollah and helping Iran. Both, of course, advocate the destruction of the Jewish state.

As reported earlier in the week, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is in the midst of a swing through South Asia to finalize plans for a massive oil pipeline and, perhaps more importantly, nurture a few useful relationships in the region. The trip has apparently borne fruit as evidenced by a statement from India's Foreign Secretary Shivshankar Menonin in support of Iran's nuclear program.

Following discussions about the $7.5b pipeline, among other things, the Secretary said "Iran has the right to peaceful use of nuclear energy while fulfilling her various obligations, and that the right way to do that is through the IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) to assure the world that she is fulfilling her obligations." The comment comes after the U.S. urged India to take a hard line with Iran and pressure it to abandon its nuclear program and cut off funding for the terrorist activities. "


anna
"i have read reports that it would take only a small drop in our consumption"

Dude, I'm addicted to my Expedition, i really, really need 10 tons of vehicle to claim my coffee and two donuts at Dunkin Donuts.

....
----Dude, I'm addicted to my Expedition, i really, really need 10 tons of vehicle to claim my coffee and two donuts at Dunkin Donuts.----

The liberal mind is a wasteland.

consumption
I wish I could remember the amt it would take to cause big problems for them. 5%? It was a single digit number.

Remember Russia saying they wouldn't send more parts until Iran made a payment?

I would love to see the nutjob and Chavez running around their own countries trying to save their necks.


I am not optimistic that anyone in power will do what is best for the country.

anna
"Iranian President Ahmadinejad and Hugo Chavez spoke by phone earlier this week to plan new meetings to boost cooperation between the two countries."

What we American really need to do, is drive even bigger and bigger cars. I mean, how many tons of steel do you need to get a loaf of bread?

aurorawatcher says
"Yet, Christians completely transformed the society in the space of a few hundred years without using WMDs or even swords."

And then the Roman Empire fell! That's not a good example.

On 11 September 2001...
--
...I recall instantly channeling not the famous words of Isoroku Yamamoto regarding awakening "a sleeping giant, but a paraphrase of Bill Halsey's remark as *U.S.S. Enterprise* entered Pearl Harbor right after the 7 December attacks.


"By the time we're through with them, the Arabic language will be spoken only in hell."



Been too long since Tours and Third Lepanto.

Hell, it's been too long since America's last forcible encounter with Islamic jihadis - in the southern islands of the Philippines during the Moro Rebellion (1902-1913), where the jihadis were called "juramentados."


One of the sad facts about a Republic like ours is that neither the population nor the leadership elected by that population reads or understands its own history.

Islam has been in a state of never-ceasing aggression against the non-Islamic world (which they call Dar al-Harb - literally, "the House of War") ever since its inception.

"Religion of Peace," indeed!







--
"Don't make treaties with non-Muslims. They are all evildoers and should not be trusted."

-- The Qur'an, Sura 9:7–9

SJ
http://www.youtube.com/watchv=K3dAnSMzUlo&feature=related

Corsi is from Jersey! Jerome is the MAN



http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56 014

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId= 57228


There will be no insurrection. I despise Bush.

Anna - So was Halsey
--

--

So what’s your plan?
Do you want to go to war with one billion people? How precisely do you plan to defeat a global religion? Newsflash for Diana West: You’re not going to win.

If you make the case that Islam is inherently evil and that all Muslims are either fools or conspirators, then you give the Islamic extremists exactly what they want: A global war. When you write, “Islam, in myriad forms, is at war with the West”, that’s what you’re saying. Does Ms. West actually know any Muslims? I know several, both in the United States and, in Pakistan. They’re people like you and I. They want the same things you and I want – better jobs, a higher standard of living, a better life for their children, etc.

There are certainly problems within the Ummah, and as a result, there is something of an existential crisis of faith in the Muslim (particularly Arab) world. However, it’s ridiculous to dehumanize one billion Muslims, making them out to be some sort of mindless zombie army out to destroy the West. Do yourself a favor and stop listening to the zealots over at Jihad Watch.

SJ
I always like West's articles. Articulate and clear eyed.


Rick Santorum has a newsletter called "The Gathering Storm"...tracking what's going on in the ME and the nutjob's close ties with Chavez.


Check out the video. Jerome is on it. I try to keep up with his articles. It must be about as brutal to be a conservative in NJ as it is here on the "left" coast.


Have you read Steyn's book "America Alone"? (He is a clever writer.) We are the last man standing. He has some interesting things to say about demographics.



Thess
I just finished working for a couple and the husband was Lebanese. He and his family were able to get out of the country during the war.

He considers himself to be Muslem. He doesn't read or follow the Qur'an. He is a normal American, a "moderate". He would be squashed like a bug in Iran if he didn't go along with the program.

Lebanon was a great country until the wackjobs got control. (Read, "Because They Hate")

I wonder how long Jordan will last.


Islam is at war with the west. Christians are commanded to love their enemies. Muslems are commanded to kill the infidel.

If you don't perceive this global threat you are blind. Europe is already conquered.


Thes
You make good points. To dehumanize anyone is wrong and would be the same error when anyone dehumanizes another whether Muslim, Jew, Christian, Hindu, etc.

But fundamentals of truth, lie, right and wrong are at the core of this war.

If a person or group of people believe a lie then that person will eventually act on that lie. That lie must either be rejected or the person will have confrontation with others. If Islam is built on a lie than that lie must be rejected if people will enter a life built on truth.

Pilate with cynicism asked, 'what is truth?' The secular world remains that cynical. The Muslims have their 'truth,' and secularist have their, 'turth.' Whose 'truth' is the lie?

Speak softly but....
carry a big Hellfire missile.

That's the message we need to send to the jihadists...along with some Hellfire.

Speak softly.....
but carry a bigger stick.

JimP
>Secularism is not synonymous with non-religion is is irreligious. It is materialistic to the core choosing the worship of creation and the creature in place of the Creator.

In the UK, the National Secular Society is the "leading pressure group defending the rights of non-believers from the demands of religious power-seekers". The UK has an established church, including unelected bishops as lawmakers.

http://www.secularism.org.uk/about.html?CPID=4df3d213ecd88f 1185f38602aee9c559

Maybe you can show me evidence of it elsewhere, but on the 'about' section of their website there is no mention at all of materialism or what should be worshipped. There are christian secularists.

Unwavering, constitutional secularism is the best way to stop sharia law. It is supremely ironic that the US holds secularism as part of the consistution yet so many don't understand it. The US in any case is the closest thing we have to a christian theocracy (maybe except Poland and the Vatican, although you can't seriously call that a country).

Stuart



Unwavering Secularism
satisfies the religious and irreligious alike but will never satisfy a theocracy.

That the US was built on Christian principles that were hammered out over centuries and millenniums and it is those Christian principle that protect non-believers from the demands of religious power-seekers.

Today, the secularist have deluded themselves into believing their secularism is and will be the savior of the world.







JimP - The word is ''millenia''
--
...and these United States were built largely on pre-Christian principles of Greek and Roman law, both concatenatively descended through the various successor forms of government descending in western Europe from the pagan Roman Empire and directly as the result of the purposeful study of the writings of those Roman and Greek philosophers whose works managed to survive hundreds of years of blind, bigoted, book-burning Christian fanatacism.

Your knowledge of history - as well as orthography - appears to be inadequate to your purposes.





------------
"To most of us nothing is so invisible as an unpleasant truth. Though it is held before our eyes, pushed under our noses,rammed down our throats - we know it not."

-- Eric Hoffer

There will come a time . . .
when the people of this country wake up and have a serious disagreement with the elites who run amok in government. Sooner or later, folks like that go too far. When they do, the reaction is predictable. Going to the range again this weekend. Might see some of you there.

Mr. orthographer,
You have re-interpreted history very eloquently.

Very eloquently biased. What ax have you to grind with Christianity other than the truth.

PC Islam Speak
A rose by any other name is a rose.

No amount of PC speech control will change reality of Islam.

Islamic religious fanatics believe it is OK to kill in the name of Allah.

On a daily basis you can see these fanatics doing God’s work.

Not being free to speak the truth only help the fanatics.

Islam is a death cult.

And do we not recognize...
this symptom in so many US citizens his espouse the leftist thinking in this country?


"In other words, they believe they cause their own abuse."

"Words that Work and Words that Don't"
Ms. West stated that there was a U. S. government document with the title "Words that Work and Words that Don't" but gave no link to it on the web or even told us which government agency might have published it (State Department, maybe?)

If that document is at the heart of her column, maybe some of us could read it and comment intelligently.

Islam Is The Problem
Only Muslims can solve the jihadi problem. Yet most Muslims are sympathetic to the jihadis.

Until the Muslim world kills, jails and wipes out the jihadis, the US and all the west should stop all new Muslim immigration.

We should also monitor all Mosques and other Muslim groups for signs of pro-bomber rhetoric.

Its time to get tough with all the jihadis AND their sypathizers.

At war with Islam
We will either fight Islam (ideologically and militarily) and win; or we will continue our insipid rhetoric which pretends that Islam is something other than despotic and one day Islam will have our heads. Unfortunately, we seem to have NO LEADERS with more than feces for brains to lead the charge.

Knucklehead
Diane, if you understood half of what you are writing about in this column, you would not look nearly as foolish.

Yes, the government is finally understanding that we need to send the right messages to Muslims if we want to succeed in stamping out extremism. It's way past time.

The problem with terms like jihadist and mujihadeen isn't that they are politically correct or politically incorrect in American terms. It is the message we send to the Islamic world when we use them.

In Islam, jihad is a good thing. It is fighting oppression and injustice. It is honorable for a Muslim to be a jihadist, which can also be loosely translated as "one who does good" for his religion.

Now think just a minute Diane, I know its a strain so don't try too hard. If we are fighting Islamic extremism and want it to end, what kind of message does it send to the Muslim street if we call the people who we are fighting "those who do good?" Are you really sure that's the message you want to send?

Sometimes, Diane, it really doesn't matter what you or I think. Sometimes it matters what other people think, those unlike us who feel threatened by America, do not understand our motives or feel we are out to get them. Sort of like you feel about Muslims, you know?




Knucklehead
Diane, if you understood half of what you are writing about in this column, you would not look nearly as foolish.

Yes, the government is finally understanding that we need to send the right messages to Muslims if we want to succeed in stamping out extremism. It's way past time.

The problem with terms like jihadist and mujihadeen isn't that they are politically correct or politically incorrect in American terms. It is the message we send to the Islamic world when we use them.

In Islam, jihad is a good thing. It is fighting oppression and injustice. It is honorable for a Muslim to be a jihadist, which can also be loosely translated as "one who does good" for his religion.

Now think just a minute Diane, I know its a strain so don't try too hard. If we are fighting Islamic extremism and want it to end, what kind of message does it send to the Muslim street if we call the people who we are fighting "those who do good?" Are you really sure that's the message you want to send?

Sometimes, Diane, it really doesn't matter what you or I think. Sometimes it matters what other people think, those unlike us who feel threatened by America, do not understand our motives or feel we are out to get them. Sort of like you feel about Muslims, you know?

And another thing
In your breathtakingly comprehensive ignorance of the Muslim world, Diane, you mock our late-understanding government when it notes in this new directive:

"Our terminology must be properly calibrated to diminish the recruitment efforts of extremists who argue the West is at war with Islam."

Now you didn't make it clear which part of this you disagree with. Are you arguing that we should not try to diminish the recruiting efforts of extremists? Or are you claiming that we should just go ahead and say we're at war with all of Islam, not just those extremists who wish to do us harm?

Either is pretty startling, my Likudnik friend. You may think this is the New Crusades but few other Americans do. And the worst of it is that for all the work Gen. Petraeus and our troops are doing trying to calm fears that we are at war with Islam, your blundering, blustering rhetoric achieves exactly the opposite.

Here's another example. Over the past several months, John McCain has courted and accepted the endorsements of the likes of Pastor John Hagee and the Rev. Rod Parsely. Hagee, of course, urges that we attack Iran so as to fulfill his apocalyptic version of Biblical End Times prophesies. Parsely is the guy who says America was founded to stamp out the false religion of Islam.

It was purely political in McCain's mind as he tried to consolidate his credentials with the Christian Right. Yet guess who carried big stories on each of these events? Al Jazeera, that's who. Stories of how GOP nominee John McCain is being embraced by these anti-Muslim fruitcakes.

And for those extremists who want to sell the story that America is at war with Islam so they can recruit more suicide bombers and terrorists, we just gave them a propaganda coup. And no doubt some of them go to Iraq or Afghanistan where they kill Americans, Diane.

Ken in Tennessee wrote:
”In Islam, jihad is a good thing. It is fighting oppression and injustice. It is honorable for a Muslim to be a jihadist, which can also be loosely translated as "one who does good" for his religion.”

As a marine relative just back from the sandbox recalled from an early indoctrination class a about the jihadists: “If an Arab called you a devil dog, would you feel insulted?” Now, granted, combining the devil with a dog would be the ultimate insult for a Muslim, and he would certainly wonder why the marine is still smiling.

West is East
So when Diana says "we can still darn well lose." is that some sort of a code word? Or is defining "lose" in the context of Islam's "war" against us the opposite of defining "win" in Iraq.
The writers here sure like using those open-ended words but they're sure short of definitions.


Ken in Tennessee
You have a point. I say we all start calling them what they truly are, in words that are not complimentary to them in any way: Psychotic Barbarians.
Hmm, makes a good bumper sticker: Islam, the religion of Psychotic Barbarians.

Brilliant
Why don't we just call them ragheads while we're at it?

Peace is just around the corner....
'Code Pink' is casting spells for peace! So ...I'm sure we will be welcomed, any day now, with open arms by the practitioners of the 'religion of peace'.

Obama better hurry up and become president before they steal his thunder. I mean ....if their spell works to quickly ...he'll lose one of the 'blessings' he's promised to bestow on us once he is 'chosen' as America's savior!

Ken in Tennessee
Your ludicrous posts paints you as the very personification of the point that Diane is making in her article.

I don't know if your just trying to be satirical in the extreme ...or if you really believe the drivel your spewing. If its the latter, your the fool ...not Diane!

You said: "In Islam, jihad is a good thing. It is fighting oppression and injustice. It is honorable for a Muslim to be a jihadist, which can also be loosely translated as "one who does good" for his religion."

So when "loosely translated" ....."one who does good" gives a Muslim the 'license' to lie, murder, rape, subjugate, pillage and pretty much do whatever their evil mind can dream up .... not only the license ...but the promise of 'glorious' rewards in the afterlife by 'their' false god ...were just supposed to except their 'definition' of "one who does good" ...loosely speaking of course!?

Your either trying to illustrate absurdity by being absurd ...or your just a total imbecile! Which is it?

I guess we're supposed to except the dictates in the Koran the instructs Muslims to destroy all 'infidels' that reject their prophet Mohamed also. The strict adherents to Islam believe that is a 'good thing' too!

So what Mosque do you attend for worship in Tennessee ?

@ Countryman ....I kind of like 'Psychotic Barbarians' ...it describes them to a 'T'!

Oh...and Ken ...
The jihadists don't really need Al Jazeera to spread ...."Stories of how GOP nominee John McCain is being embraced by these anti-Muslim fruitcakes."

Thanks to the marvels of western culture, they can and do, produce their own TV specials depicting Jews as monkeys and sub-human ...and use Mickey Mouse style cartoons to indoctrinate and brainwash their children to hate from the time they are barely out of the womb.

I hope your not an Obama supporter...because if Obama is being honest about his conversion to Christianity ...they are going to hate him way more than they hate McCain as our president.

It's kind of like a 'cardinal sin' in Islam for someone to convert from being a Muslim (Obama's early years) to Christianity!

That is unless ...of course ..Obama never really converted to Christianity ...but perhaps is following the Koran when it gives Muslims permission to lie to infidels as part of a greater plan to subjugate them.

Now I'm not convinced that Obama is really a 'closet' Muslim ...like has been suggested by some ..but it is strange that Obama has been endorsed by Hamas and other Muslim groups and leaders of the Muslim cult. Don't you think?


One last thing Ken...
We ARE at war with Islam ...and so is the rest of the civilized world...whether they want to recognise it or not!

...It is NOT a war of our choosing ...but theirs!

Hi JimP
>Unwavering Secularism satisfies the religious and irreligious alike but will never satisfy a theocracy.

And of course why would you want to try and satisfy a theocracy? The point is to avoid one in the first place.

Part of the American dream supposedly is that anyone could grow up to be president. But it is not true that anyone who professed non-belief could become president, is it? That is an imposition by religious power-seekers, that is not present in other Western democracies. The US does not realise how much it is a christian theocracy.


>That the US was built on Christian principles that were hammered out over centuries and millenniums and it is those Christian principle that protect non-believers from the demands of religious power-seekers.

Exactly what christian principles do you mean? Stoning non-believers, homosexuals and adulterers? An eye for an eye? The meek shall inherit the earth?


>Today, the secularist have deluded themselves into believing their secularism is and will be the savior of the world.

The secular principle enshrined in the US constitution has held fast against the demands of gun-totin' christians. Why should it not also withstand attack from those who want sharia law?

Stuart

Stu
Your characterization of Christianity - "Exactly what christian principles do you mean? Stoning non-believers, homosexuals and adulterers? An eye for an eye? The meek shall inherit the earth?" is wrong.

Those are the principles of the Old Testament. The Christian principle is "Love another as you love yourself", in other words, treat others with the respect you want them to treat you.

This is the opposite creed from sharia law, which does embody Old Testament principles (stoning, eye for an eye, etc.), therefore Christian values and principles are a bulwark against sharia law and Islam in general.

I say Christian values and principles, as one does not need to be a Christian to practice them. I am an atheist, but accept that our nation is conceived in Christian values, and keeping to them rigorously will protect us from theocracies like Islam.

Stu
you're biased and probably bigoted toward Christianity for whatever your reason. Whether you believe in the truth of Christianity or not the principles embodied in them are non contradictory. Those very principles can be declared against Christian practitioners holding them accountable to error in their practice.

You won't do that though. You've got an ax grind against Christianity in general. I suspect because of the broad principle of accountability its words hold every man to including you buddy boy. You, unlike the hypocritical Christian you like to use as examples, are unwilling to admit your hypocrisy. Whose worse off?

Countryman,
Beautifully balanced understanding of the influence Christianity has had on this country.

I'd like to take that a step further and say the world.


Christ said, 'you are the salt of the earth.' Speaking to believers. The entity of Christianity was never intended to become a governing rule in this world. Those who have tried have been miss guided and or have corrupted Christ's teaching.

Regardless, its principles are open to 'whomever will' and it is its word and principles that Christians are called to be loyal to not some twisted interpretation of them. Christian antagonists need to attack the teaching not misguided adherents. They won't do that though.

'Salt of the earth' is the good, the right, and the just, influence Christianity has and does have over governing powers.

As you very clearly pointed out, Christianity has become the conscience for the world.

To deny and ignore Christianities righteous influence is dishonest.

It's influence has taken things of the world and tempered them to be humane, just and compassionate.




Even the Old Testament
Had the seeds of Christianity embodied in its teaching. There must be governance and 'eye for and eye' like 'life for a life.' These factors musts exist in governing any body of people. But the Old Testament even had those tempered by an unwavering code of justice to the right.

Old Testament had a goal grander than the world was able to digest at the time. That goal was 'God with us.'

Something the Islamic world has flatly rejected and replaced with a absolute transcendent detached deity whose only purpose is absolute subjection of mankind through through some ruling priesthood.

Something the ruling powers during the time of Christ, tragically, may have also embraced.

Very insightful article.
I have noticed that the antiwar crowd uses the logic the author delineates; i.e. If we will leave them alone then they will leave us alone.

This dovetails into a study that came out awhile back about what differentiates self-described liberals from conservatives. In the study, liberals were generally shown to have had more traumatic childhoods and had failed to establish solid emotional bonds with at least one parent. Perhaps many liberals have learned to cope with abuse/oppression by using the coping methods that they employed in their childhoods. They fall into delusional thinking that they can control/mitigate their oppressor's abusive behavior if they will only change their own when, in fact, the two things are not actually correlated significantly.


JimP - No re-interpretation...
--
...of history was required. Responding to my assertion that:

"...these United States were built largely on pre-Christian principles of Greek and Roman law, both concatenatively through the various successor forms of government descending in western Europe from the pagan Roman Empire and directly as the result of the purposeful study of the writings of those Roman and Greek philosophers whose works managed to survive hundreds of years of blind, bigoted, book-burning Christian fanatacism."


...JimP whined:

"You have re-interpreted history very eloquently.

"Very eloquently biased. What ax have you to grind with Christianity other than the truth."


You mean apart from their blind, bigoted, book-burning tendencies? Bear in mind that before Caliph Omar came along and flamed the last remnants of the Library at Alexandra, the racks had been pretty thoroughly raped by Christian dogmatists. The history of Christianity throughout has been marked by intolerance, oppression, and "Thought Police" suppression of anything the sanctimonious imagined might be heterodox.

As for Americans of the Enlightenment....

Doesn't it mean anything to you, JimP, that the collective pseudonym under which the Federalist Papers were published was "Publius" (in honor of pre-Christian Roman consul Publius Valerius Publicola), and that several the the Anti-Federalists wrote as "Cato" and "Brutus"?

Or that in their seminal series of pamphlets, titled *Cato's Letters* (1720-1723), Trenchard and Gordon used that same "Cato" as their joint penname?

The founders were literate men, JimP, and knew their roots better than an ill-educated, god-besotted dolt like you do.

--



It is a re-interpretation
Even with all your pompous facts to support you.

The Roman Empire you idealize was as brutal and oppressive a regime that only Christians could tolerate and come out on the other side of its collapse some what as victors. And they didn't do it with suppression you accuse.

The Greeks were almost as arrogant as you are in their so called 'knowledge of facts' they reveled in their arrogance until their license turned into their corruption.

Yes, Organized Christianity has played its suppressive role but not by its teaching but by people who corrupt the truth it taught.

Take on its teaching instead of the faults of faulty people.

You won't do that. You fault find with inconsequentials. That's your shtick.

It is those teaching that has keep this sin sick world and governments to act with some sanity. Not trivia.


JimP - Ever study English history?
--
What's "pompous" to a putz like JimP is nothing more than literacy to anyone else.

The American founders started life - grew up, were educated, and fought the French and Indian War - as subjects of His Britannic Majesty. In the 18th Century, the second-most populous Anglophone city on Earth (after London) was Billy Penn's Philadelphia. Our systems of law, our structures of government, our modes of dress and thought and commerce were strongly derivative of America's origin as a cluster of British colonies.

And to the founding fathers, this meant literacy à la mode Britannique. Some Greek, much Latin, reading in the pre-Christian Greek and Roman classics. Only boobs and bumpkins read nothing beyond their Bibles.

Here, as in Britain, the pre-Christian Roman Republic (and, to some extent, the Empire) provided a model to emulate, not a particularly "brutal and oppressive...regime" to despise, especially in light of what had been going on across Mitteleuropa during the recent Thirty Years' War (1618-1648), in which the population of the Germanies had been reduced by something around 30%, with similar slaughter going on in the adjoining regions.

To the European Enlightenment, the Romans represented civilization. Road buildiers. City-makers. Engineers and disciplined armies and rigorous codes of law.

Hell, the Holy *ROMAN* Empire was still a recognized European political entity (under Francis II) when the American Revolution began, and did not dissolve until 1806.

Just how extensively do you have to prove that the past - to you - is not only a foreign country but nowhere near the galaxy you inhabit?

It's not that all American "secular conservatives" are pig-ignorant bucketheads, but simply that enough of them so egregiously demonstrate their stupidity that most folks of Christian belief who have any brains at all don't want to be identified with them.

--


Damn! Correction
--
That final paragraph should read:


"It's not that all American '*RELIGIOUS conservatives' are pig-ignorant bucketheads, but simply that enough of them so egregiously demonstrate their stupidity that most folks of Christian belief who have any brains at all don't want to be identified with them."








---------------
"If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world but I am sure we would be getting reports from hell before breakfast."

-- William Tecumseh Sherman

Like I said,
You won't go to the source. As if the founders only knew Greek and were ignorant of The Bible. The Bible informed nothing to them as far as your interpretation. All pagans those founder with as much disdain of the Bible as you.

Your ax to grind.


A five year old
child with the littlest knowledge of the Bible knows more of life that a chump who's able to spout off the history of the world, chump.

It's Islamic Jihad, Not Extremism, Uncle Sam
--
And there's JimP - the Christian equivalent of the Caliph Omar - spouting the same line of religionist crap that so thoroughly endears the Bible-fixated "man of one book" to that majority of American conservatives who appreciate the toxicity of religious intolerance and the vicious, arrogant, self-satisfied stupidity of the True Believer.





-----------
"[William Jennings] Bryan was a vulgar and common man, a cad undiluted. He was ignorant, bigoted, self-seeking, blatant and dishonest. His career brought him into contact with the first men of his time; he preferred the company of rustic ignoramuses. It was hard to believe, watching him at Dayton, that he had traveled, that he had been received in civilized societies, that he had been a high officer of state. He seemed only a poor clod like those around him, deluded by a childish theology, full of an almost pathological hatred of all learning, all human dignity, all beauty, all fine and noble things. He was a peasant come home to the dung-pile. Imagine a gentleman, and you have imagined everything that he was not."

-- H.L. Mencken

It's Islamic Jihad, Not Extremism, Uncle Sam
Diana, Judging from your archive of articles, you appear to be the one who is obsessed with Islam.

I tend to agree with Dr Ron Paul about Israel cutting the apron strings with the United States so that they can act on their own without having to worry that Washington will cut some of the billions of dollars in aid they get every year.

Another thing is that Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan get even more of that aid than Israel. As an American my first and main concern is about America and I do not understand why American Taxpayers should be paying for the war in Iraq especially when according to the latest reports...the Iraqi oil fields are at full production capacity and are churning out more than 10 billion dollars every month.


It's Islamic Jihad, Not Extremism, Uncle Sam
Diana,

Maybe you could stop complaining all of the time about jihad, Moslems, etc and write about some of the solutions as you see it or do you believe there are any solutions short of blowing up Islam or the Arab world countries.it really gets old when someone just complains and criticiszes all the time but does not have any solutions to any of the problems.


It's Islamic Jihad, Not Extremism, Uncle Sam
Countryman
>Your characterization of Christianity - "Exactly what christian principles do you mean? Stoning non-believers, homosexuals and adulterers? An eye for an eye? The meek shall inherit the earth?" is wrong.
Those are the principles of the Old Testament. The Christian principle is "Love another as you love yourself", in other words, treat others with the respect you want them to treat you.

Sure, but it is not a ‘christian’ principle. Matthew 7:12 had been around for many tens of thousands of years before the advent of christianity. Matthew 5:17 is pretty clear that the Old Testament principles are the New Testament ones too. Didn’t Jesus allegedly say it was all good to teach? I say allegedly because it is a close thing as to whether he existed at all.


>I say Christian values and principles, as one does not need to be a Christian to practice them. I am an atheist, but accept that our nation is conceived in Christian values, and keeping to them rigorously will protect us from theocracies like Islam.

Exactly what mechanism do you propose for this protection? What can christianity/ “christian principles”, ill-defined as they are, achieve that cannot be equally accomplished without any reference to religion at all? Why give credence to a belief system that demands that absurd claims are true, when just maintaining a secular principle will keep any theocracy at bay?

Stuart

It's Islamic Jihad, Not Extremism, Uncle Sam
Steve

>I have noticed that the antiwar crowd uses the logic the author delineates; i.e. If we will leave them alone then they will leave us alone.

Who are we at war with again? What was the reason for that war? Should we not have left Iraq alone in the first place?


>This dovetails into a study that came out awhile back about what differentiates self-described liberals from conservatives. In the study, liberals were generally shown to have had more traumatic childhoods and had failed to establish solid emotional bonds with at least one parent. Perhaps many liberals have learned to cope with abuse/oppression by using the coping methods that they employed in their childhoods. They fall into delusional thinking that they can control/mitigate their oppressor's abusive behavior if they will only change their own when, in fact, the two things are not actually correlated significantly.

Did you see that on Fox? Actually the words are too big for it to be them.

Stuart

It's Islamic Jihad, Not Extremism, Uncle Sam
And there DrJ is the void. To you the Bible is as common and a vulgar are the daily newspaper.

It's Islamic Jihad, Not Extremism, Uncle Sam
Corrections on orthagraphy, but I'm sure the point will be missed.


To you the Bible is as any other book as common and as vulgar as the daily newspaper.

It's Islamic Jihad, Not Extremism, Uncle Sam
JimP - No, the Bible is holy writ...
--
...but only to Christians. I don't see Bible-thumping blindsided boobs citing Hindu or Muslim or Buddhist texts, and from an objective perspective, they're *PRECISELY* as valid as your King James Version (KJV) of the Christian Bible.

And from my perspective - as a Roman Catholic - your KJV is a heavily censored work of arrant heresy, bereft of the 7 Deuterocanonical books and without any of the explanatory notes required by Canon Law, all of which I can find in my Douay Bible.

It's navel-gazing *fellahin* like you who give the rest of the country perfectly good reason to despise and distrust anyone who comes at them with quotations from Holy Writ.

And with good reason.




-------------
"Beware the man of one book."

-- St. Thomas Aquinas

It's Islamic Jihad, Not Extremism, Uncle Sam
And what is your point other than you resent those who quote the Bible? (Which I don't believe I have done)

If there is knowledge to begotten and the Bible is 'holy writ' what kind of knowledge would you have a person substitute in its place? If there is preference pray tell what is it you would rather a person know?

Give a break.

You've pitted horizontal knowledge against transcendent knowledge, if the Bible is Holy Writ.


And if it is, what is the problem with looking at the world through the lens of Biblical revelation instead of the reverse which is what you argue for.

You can quote Thomas Aquinas and Plato and whoever all you want. Who are they but men. They more worthy than Inspired Revelation, if the Bible is 'holy writ'?

Holy Writ gives the knowledge of the Almighty.
You would replace that knowledge with what?

I probably am an illiterate , uneducated dolt but to this dolt anyone who would answer the above question with anything but 'nothing,' well I would rather remain an uneducated dolt than a literate, educated and articulate person whose devoid of the true knowledge of God.

It's Islamic Jihad, Not Extremism, Uncle Sam
Reply to post #70 (Stuart)

You asked me, "Who are we at war with again? What was the reason for that war? Should we not have left Iraq alone in the first place?"

Your statement above seems to reinforce the point I was making in my post. Do you think by leaving Saddam Hussein alone he wouldn't have bothered us? Are you arguing that Iraq is unrelated to the War on Terror? If so, then you disagree with Bin Laden himself and the rest of his leadership as well as Generals Petreaus, Pace, Franks and SECDEF Gates and a host of others. Iraq is the central front of the War on Terror. That is not to say that Afghanistan is not critical as well...

The free-world must realize that it is under siege from Islamofascism and retaliate. Their attack is not due to the creation of Israel or our overthrow of Saddam Hussein and subsequent occupation of Iraq. It is not due to our support of Israel. It is not due to our having troops in Saudi Arabia nor Gulf War I.

Islamofascists are at war with us for who we are - our whole way of life. They violently reject freedom of speech, equal rights for women, freedom of religion and much more.





JimP - Transcending what?
--
Burbles JimP:

"You've pitted horizontal knowledge against transcendent knowledge, if the Bible is Holy Writ."


And you've pressed the limp noodle of your own personal fund of knowledge - memorization of the KJV Bible the way a Syrian *fellah* memorizes the Qu'ran without understanding it - against broader, stronger knowledge of the whole world.

And your "transcendent" stack of "revelation" is Holy Writ to precisely the same extent as is
the Bhagavad Gita, the Sutra Pitaka, the Guru Granth Sahib, the Rigveda, and the Book of the Dead (not to mention the Qu'ran)

JimP, you're not only "an illiterate , uneducated dolt," but you're a passive sucker who believes that the humans who wrote (and *HEAVILY* expurgated) that KJV you keep pounding your forehead against is somehow the direct product of the hand of God, without flaw or foible, compiled with no political agenda or deceitful purpose.

When you're done your bible studies, are you gonna visit that bridge in Brooklyn you bought?

--

Empty and more empty nothings
You say a lot of nothing.

Give examples of those errors, flaws, foibles you boost of so confidently about.

Where???? Revel this to the world so we can humble ourselves to the supremacy of your insights.


No way will you dare to or are can you. Boastful nothing. Try to to or be a chump with a lot empty talk. Convince me. Your so articulate with facts ready at hand. Have at it. That these errors have been hidden for all the centuries and you've unveiled them. Impressive. Where?

Why Iraq?
--
Remarks Steve:

"Do you think by leaving Saddam Hussein alone he wouldn't have bothered us? Are you arguing that Iraq is unrelated to the War on Terror? If so, then you disagree with Bin Laden himself...."


There's not only that. After 9/11 made it clear that the Islamic jihadis could and would make massive tactical terrorist strikes against civilian targets in these United States (intrinsically stupid as their choice of targets were; I mean, like we've got a shortage of Wall Street weenies, or we're somehow unable to distribute the New York financial district's function into unused office space in Bergen and Hudson and Essex and Union Counties, right across the Hudson?), there had to be some sort of action taken, both in retaliation and in an effort to neutralize the enemy's capability to do more damage.

After Afghanistan (the failed state in which al-Qaeda was openly training and basing the greatest part of their operations) had been efficiently and very quickly neutralized, the only other politically and militarily vulnerable target in the Islamic world was - surprise! - the Arab Socialist Ba'th Party's Iraq.

In truth, it was the only logical next step in counteroffensive operations.

And no war is ever won by remaining on the defensive.

--

JimP - Convincing the willfully ignorant
--
Bloats JimP:

"Convince me."


Yeah, sure. And gimme the square root of minus-one in real numbers while we're at it.

JimP, nobody has to penetrate that ferroconcrete lump you've jammed between your ears to prove that you're a null, a cull, and a void.

You do it for yourself every time you hit the "Submit" key.

When you have something substantive to say - instead of these allegations of your peculiar bigotries' "transcendent" bullpuckey - come back and post it.

Until then, ram it squarely, twist it hard, and keep the blood off the rug.




==============
"Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centures since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes."

-- Isaac Asimov

You've articulated very artfully
nothing.

You made the allegations of error.

against is somehow the direct product of the hand of God, without flaw or foible, compiled with no political agenda or deceitful purpose.


Where?????

You made your retreat very artfully and snidely. Enjoy you success.

JimP - Nothing is all you deserve, putzi
--
Your bibliolatry is precisely equivalent to that of the most thoroughly mullah-approved madrassa graduate, and exactly as devoid of reason.

If faith is the base upon which you predicate whatever gurgles between your eyebrows and your occiput, and faith is not only ineffable but quintessentially subjetive, then you have neither power to transmit your meaning nor perspective to understand the minds of anyone else.

Not even those of those who profess what you *THINK* are identical orthodoxies, because your situation (as theirs) is so void for vagueness as to present no template for commonality.

That's the big problem with attending upon any primitive and crippled substitute for philosophy. Without verifiably observable facts of reality as the touchstone upon which communication can be predicated, religion is nothing more than a perpetual clustergrope upon which *NOBODY* can precisely agree.




==============
"Religion is based upon blind faith supported by no evidence. Science is based upon confidence that results from evidence - and that confidence can be modified and/or reversed by further observations and experimentation. Science approaches truth, closer and closer, by hard dedicated work. Religion already has it all decided, and it's 'in the book.' It's dogma, unchangeable, and unaffected by reality and whatever facts we come upon in the real world."

-- James Randi
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