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Friday, November 16, 2007
Diana West :: Townhall.com Columnist
Tancredo's Raw Truth About Terrorism
by Diana West
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Somehow, it isn't fair that with illegal immigration now a defining issue of American politics, the one politician more than any other who has taught Americans to re-imagine their land as a nation with controllable borders is trailing in the GOP presidential polls. I refer, of course, to Colorado Rep. Tom Tancredo, whose congressional career has been guided by a once-seemingly impossible goal: to convince Americans that we had an illegal immigration problem.

This was something many Americans -- from the business community, with its addiction to cheap labor, to the great middle class, with its addiction to cheap childcare and household help -- all too readily denied.

If convincing people we had an illegal immigration crisis wasn't hard enough, he also had to persuade people there was a solution to this problem of porous borders that 10 or 20 million mainly Spanish-speaking illegal aliens had crossed -- and are still crossing. What are you gonna do, his detractors would say, build a fence?

Well, yes. That was one idea. And while that fence has yet to be built, it has been voted into law and signed by the president (despite his open-border self). In the course of the debate, Tancredo has helped many Americans once again think of the United States as a sovereign nation, not a honey pot -- a worthy testament to a congressional career that he will be bringing to an end by not seeking re-election.

But what about Tancredo's presidential campaign? This week, he debuted a new TV commercial challenging voters, as well as his fellow candidates, to link the illegal alien issue to the national security threat of jihadist terrorism. And despite this being the age of jihadist terrorism, Tancredo's TV spot is a first. It highlights the fact that our borders are open to more than just cheap labor by depicting the ease with which a terrorist enters a shopping mall -- like other terrorists entered the London Underground, the Spanish trains, a school in Russia -- to deposit a backpack-bomb that explodes at the end of the commercial. The message is refreshingly direct: "Tancredo. Before it's too late."

Yes, there is something surreal about the commercial, but not because of the content. What is surreal is the hysteria that has greeted it. After 9/11, 3/11, 7/7, Amman, Amsterdam, Baghdad, Bali, Beslan, Davao, Hadera, Haifa, Jakarta, Jerusalem, Nairobi, New Dehli, Sharm al-Sheik, Tel Aviv, Tunisia and more, what dolt doesn't wonder if and when jihadist cowards will attack our own trains, markets, hotels and restaurants? Tom Tancredo has only taken the mature and responsible course -- not coincidentally, also the politically incorrect course -- by raising this deadly serious issue with the American people. But for this he is castigated as a "fear-monger."

Indeed, as if on cue, the Tancredo-hostile Denver Post editorialized: "New Tancredo ad is a sad case of fear-mongering," adding that Tancredo had "reached a new low -- if that's possible."

"Is Tom Tancredo Too `Tough on Terror'?" blogged the Washington Post. Conclusion to reach: Way too tough.

The Los Angeles Times quoted one Dennis Goldford, a professor of politics at Drake University in Des Moines, who described the Tancredo commercial as "an incredibly fear-based kind of advertisement that some might say is trying to terrorize people into supporting his view." This is rich. Acknowledging terrorism as act of terrorism: Professor, grade yourself an "F."

Meanwhile, the Rocky Mountain News didn't claim even a shred of impartial coverage, sub-heading its report on the Tancredo commercial: "Expert says terrorism images are so blatant commercial won't work." The "expert" here was Bruce Gronbeck, a communications professor at the University of Iowa who teaches a course on politics on the aftermath of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks (heaven help his students). He said: "This is just blatant, raw fear images, and they've never worked in the United States, period."

"Fear-mongering." "Terrorizing people." "Blatant, raw fear images." The way the "experts" talk, they make it sound as if Tancredo is subjecting citizens to sick "Saw" dismemberment fantasies -- not the plain, awful reality of our tragically jihad-diminished day. Yes, our shopping malls are targets. And yes, our borders are porous. Ignoring this makes it easier to live in a world of pretend, but that's not traditionally where our best presidents have come from. Indeed, how does any credible, responsible presidential candidate ignore the potential connection between shopping-mall targets and porous borders?

Answer: At this nation's politically correct peril.

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About The Author
Diana West is a contributing columnist for Townhall.com and author of the new book, The Death of the Grown-up: How America's Arrested Development Is Bringing Down Western Civilization.
 
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It appears Tancredo's fear mongering
Has scared the **** out of the US Government too.
(I mean besides the college professors)

----------------

U.S. simulates 'dirty bomb' attacks on Phoenix, Portland


Gen. Gene Renuart, commander of NORAD, the North American Aerospace Defense Command, and USNORTHCOM, the United States Northern Command, invited WND staff reporter Jerome R. Corsi to visit Peterson Air Force base to observe Day Three of the NORAD-USNORTHCOM exercise Vigilant Shield 2008.

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. – A dirty bomb explodes in Guam, a U.S. territory in the Pacific.

A few hours later, two more dirty bombs detonate, this time on the continental United States.

One bomb goes off at Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix, killing an unknown number of people and spreading radiation throughout the airport.

Almost simultaneously, a dirty bomb goes off in Portland, Ore., detonated on the Steel Bridge, one of the city's main arteries across the Willamette River to the downtown area.

Within minutes, the news media .......

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58640

Then of course, nothing to worry
About on the Southern Border, seems to be very Secure.

--------------------

Lawmen under siege along Mexico border
By Jerry Seper
November 15, 2007
Alien and drug smugglers along the U.S.-Mexico border have spawned a rise in violence against federal, state and local law-enforcement authorities, who say they are outmanned and outgunned.



"They've got weapons, high-tech radios, computers, cell phones, Global Positioning Systems, spotters and can react faster than we are able to," said Shawn P. Moran, a 10-year U.S. Border Patrol veteran who serves as vice president of the National Border Patrol Council Local 1613 in San Diego.

http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071 115/NATION/111150077/1001

We need some fear mongering...
...as so many idiots, like you, Talent Scout, and The Denver Post don't recognize that which there is to be feared.

When the fear mongering
argument fails (and it will), Dems will just have to come up with another excuse why we should stick our heads in the sand.

Listen ding dong
I send money to Tancredo for his run for President.

Do you smart aze?
---------------
Buzz writes: 12:30 AM
We need some fear mongering...
...as so many idiots, like you, Talent Scout, and The Denver Post don't recognize that which there is to be feared.

Obviously too stupid to read
And understand the point I was making how the government itself is practicing for the VERY THING TANCREDO is warning about.
------
Buzz writes:
We need some fear mongering...
...as so many idiots, like you, Talent Scout, and The Denver Post don't recognize that which there is to be feared.
--------

Its people like (Buzz) that should have someone help with reading comprehension.
Then it would help if they tried asking a person what they meant, if you are unable to comprehend a point being made.
You IDIOT

Don't Face the Facts
Tom Tancredo is being righteous by running an ad to admonish Americans to awake to the imminent danger of RIM (radical islamofascist militants) amidst our populations. They possess the means to fabricate and use WMDs.

Statistics show that of the 10% or fewer of INVADERS who are caught while illegally crossing the US southern border that a rising number of INVADERS are of raghead origin. The federal-mafia criminally insurrectionist godvernment even has names for the RIMs they catch: "OTMs" = Other Than Mexicans, and "persons of special interest". That's in addition to the 25,000 terrorist, er, "student" visas the king/sheik jorge busho empire doles out to RIM nations so they can export more terrorist to the USA, since our godvernment is obviously in the "importing terrorists" biz.

The politically correct Thought Police don't like Tancredo telling the truth. So, they're ganging up on him and mugging him for being honest. I'd love to mug them back. They'd be attacking REAL US Patriots (their victims) from their hospital wards.

Miscommunication – Buzz & talent scout
You folks seem to be on the same side. The first 2 posting by talent scout struck me as sarcastic ~ against the PC'ers attacking Tancredo. If that's true (sarcasm) and you don't see it, maybe you think talent scout is part of the mob mugging Tom Tancredo. That's miscommunicating. Good guys must stick together, not fight amongst themselves.

Fold without a fight.
Political correctness has paralyzed this nation. Political correctness is the dagger that those who want to destroy this country are using to killing with.
All they have to do is accuse us of being racist, and we fold without a fight.

FUNNY HILLARY CLINTON VIDEO ON YOUTUBE
Check this YouTube video out. It's a spoof of HBO's CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM that makes fun of Hillary Clinton and Hollywood liberals.

http://www.youtube.com/undercvrconservative

Why do Dems hate this ad... ?
Because it's true. They don't want anyone "harshing" them on national security, it makes them uncomfortable and upsets their self-esteem. They want to get back to their truly important agendas for this country, like socialized medicine, cutting the defense budget, giving amnesty to illegal aliens and raising taxes.

Diana, once again you and Tancredo have taken a wrecking ball to the Lefty fantasy world.

Fight4right
If this were just a issue of Democrats, that would be one thing. But its not. If you want to win this battle you need to recalibrate your aim. It was Bush, McCain and the republican congressional leadership that tried to push amnesty through. The GOP as a national party has ducked, bobbed and weaved on this issue, because the corporate and agricultural wing of the party does not want the borders closed - and it wants their money. In sum, this issue is going to be won by individuals in congress of either party that are willing to step up. Granted, there are more republicans than democrats who talk about this issue, but the 13 democratic senators who voted against Bush's last bill are an an essential part of that coalition.

Focus on conservatives - forget party. That's my message.

Eben
Good message, and you are right. The Republicans have been AWOL,largely, on border security. Incongruously, they have been proactive on anti-terrorism. You can't defend adequately against terrorism without securing our borders. However, the Democrats have been worse than AWOL on both. Their positions on illegal immigration and anti-terrorism have been to enable both.

Why Tancredo is ignored
Because the plan for the NAU also spun as the SPP is already in place. Jorge has done so much to dismantle our country and destroy the middle class with cheap labor that there is no going back now. The truly disgusting part is that most all of the elite dolts that make our laws are completely on board.

It has NOT escaped my attention that the two men running for POTUS that are for sealing the borders and un-doing the SPP are NEVER mentioned. It's a conspiracy-- don't fall for it. Vote for the REAL patriots in the primary.

Hunter / Tancredo '08

Snowballs chance
This has been simmering in the back of my mind for awhile. I almost convinced myself to back the Republican that was most electable but I cant swallow all the negatives. Illegal immigration is the number 1 issue this election and the RINO's have been on the wrong side. The scenarios described by Talent Scout are certainly possible. When you have people willing to kill themselves and their children for a cause then it is not far fetched to think they would use any tool they could get their hands on.

Go Hunter / Tancredo '08

my 2 cents
In this election as in all the elections for the foreseeable future national security is the biggest issue - if the nation is not secure then there is really no point in debating anything else until it is. The dems are not so dumb that they don't know that, although they act that way.

Is that l'il dennis k lovable or not? Thank goodness he is impeaching our evil VP.

Antarticn
About 12 million have come accross our border in the last few years. By that, if only 10% are of the "raghead" populace as you say, then 120000 are of that group. Any bets on how many are of the terrorist persuasion? 1000, 20000, maybe 50,000 of them? Do you feel real comfy now? I know I don't. I watched a news report that had some video of the border guards arresting a few crossers and the one guy had this huge back pack that was bigger than a back-pack nuke. Now just figure if it was and they weren't caught. now I really don't feel safe. Add that to the fact that over 60 Americans have been kidnapped on the border, border guards have been fired on by the Mexican army, and the fact that the coyotes are so tech minded, and you can't logically argue not to seal the border.

Seal The Border Before We Seal Our Fate!!!

Hunter/ Tancredo "08" "The Dream Team!!"

neither party is conservatism's savior
I did not find the(Tancredo)ad over-the-top, although I thought it would elicit alot of negative commentary from pundits.

I agree with Eben and others who remind us this should not be a partisan issue.

Many democrats are beholden to leftist interest groups who oppose border enforcement...and some of them want a radical transformation of our nation(for the worse).

But Bush is no better in regard to border enforcement. He and his cronies envision a super entity comprising Mexico, the U.S., and Canada.

There seems to be some confusion out there in attempting to connect, or equate, conservatism with the GOP.

I believe Bush and congressional republicans have pretty well severed that supposed connection.


Tancredo for Prez
AS far as I can recall, Tancredo has not been running with the fantasy of actually winning the GOP nomination. No, every time I've heard this guy speak he says that he chose to declare as a candidate for the purpose of making absolutely sure that the issues involving USA sovereignty and the "silent" INVASION across our borders and through our ports by the third world were "front and center" in the discourse of this Presidential election. I'd say Tancredo thus far has succeeded in making the "Illegals among us" and the DEFENSE of our borders and ports of entry THE issue of the 2008 election!

Muslim immigration
legal And illegal is the biggest threat facing our nation.

We know where the Left stands on this issue. What I find to be appalling is the PC nonsense on this issue from the self professed "conservative" talk show hosts such Limbuagh, Hannity, Medved, Ingraham and the like.

Meanwhile Muslims pour into our country in record breaking numbers while these talk hosts spend each day ranting about how the frontline on the war on "terror" (more PC nonsense, it's Islam that is at war with us") has something to do with establishing a Sharia based government in Iraq.

terror
...and when we do get the next attack we'll have another round of investigations, yadda

This will really scare you......

Let's distract them with Global Warming.

Re Redheart comment on GW
Gee dont tie me Gore lied! Again?

Undercover Conservative
Regarding your Shrillary Video:

No thanks, I still have my gag reflex.

YES
1. Hunter
2. Tancreado
3. Paul

Thinker
Yes and contrary to belief above, in that order!!


SealThe border before we seal our fate!!

Hunter/Tancredo "08" "The Dream Team!!"

NO
Never Ron Paul. He is a freak in the tradition of Ross Perot, and if you vote for him, you are throwing your vote away and guaranteeing that the Shrillster will win.

No Amnesty Candidates

No Rudy, No McCain

Romney, Thompson and Huckabee are saying the right things now, but haven't always. Hunter and Tancredo have been working on this for years on our behalf. Longer than most of you have been alarmed about it, they have been trying to sound the alarm. Choose carefully in the primaries, your future depends on it.

HUNTER FOR AMERICA


Securing the border and enforcing the law is the only way we get to keep our rule of law, our representative Republic, and our Constitution. We must elect a President who WILL secure the border and enforce the law. If citizenship becomes meaningless, this will no longer be the United States of America.

The so-called "top tier" will not get out the voters necessary for a GOP win. Increasing turnout is the key. Give people something to vote for. Not just the lesser of two evils. Won't work this time. People are fed up with the inundation of illegal aliens. They would come out in droves for the clear choice of D=amnesty or R=enforcement. They will stay home if they both equal amnesty.

There is a huge majority of American citizens waiting for someone to pledge to uphold the laws and secure the borders, let's not ignore them any more.

http://www.gohunter08.com

Conflating two different issues
What's wrong with the Tancredo ad is that it attempts to conflate terrorism with Hispanic immigration across America's southern border. That's an emotional appeal that does not jibe with the facts:

The 9-11 hijackers, who caused the worst terrorism in American history, did NOT enter America through her southern border. They entered America through her Northern border. As do other potential Islamic terrorists--because Canada has been very lax in handling their Muslim immigrants.

If the fence along the southern border had been in place in 2001, it would not have prevented the 9-11 attack because the terrorists didn't come from that direction. Neither do most of the Muslim immigrants in America who might present a terrorist threat--they either come south from Canada or just fly into an American international airport via those special visas the State Department issues Saudis.

So if you want to stop Islamic terrorists from entering the country, you need very different policies than if you want to stop Hispanic immigrants from entering the country. They arrive here via different routes.


Uh, how about..


1. Hunter
2. Tancredo




for Fight4right
Fight4right writes: "You can't defend adequately against terrorism without securing our borders."

When it comes to a determined terrorist organization like al-Qaeda, a border fence is nothing but a 21st century Maginot Line.

With forged passports and special visas, Islamic terrorists can enter this country just by flying into JFK International Airport in New York City.

If they did decide to sneak across the border, they would very likely come in across America's NORTHERN border from Canada, since they can operate with near impunity in some parts of Canada, they are so liberal and multicultural up there.

So if you're more worried about Islamic terrorism than about Hispanic immigration (as I am), then stop being so obsessed with building fences along America's SOUTHERN border. No reputable expert in terrorism thinks that will stop a single Islamic terrorist. They don't live in Latin America to begin with.

Mountain Rose:
Please, you are embarrassing yourself. There are no meaningful parallels between Perot and Paul. Find something real to write about.

Another 9-11?
At this point I believe that it will take another 9-11 magnitude event, done by people crossing our borders illegally, to make America wake up.

The 50+ kidnappings of American citizens from Laredo, Texas is lost in the politically correct ozone of our news media.

And Boutte, from your tone this is probably a waste of time, but I think there are legitimate
concerns about both foreign terrorists and other violent (but non-political) criminals entering from across the border. I do not think wanting to nip another crew like the Fort Dix Six in the bud is "hysterically misdirected nonsense". Even though there are different hot buttons there, I think there is common ground.

The Tancredo Commercial
The message that Tom is attempting to communicate is not for us; that would be preaching to the chior!

He's working to bring an important issue to the attention of those that are not paying attention and whom are not recognizing the dangers that we face.

It wouldn't hurt to end his commercial with a comment such as, "What do you think of a presidential candidate that is not considering such potential threats?"

Mountain Rose: Not to worry!


Got your point!






Isn't it pretty much the same people who

shortly after 9-11, were yelling "What did the admin. know, and when did they know it...?" who are now yelling "Fear Mongerers?"

Yup, that's what I thought!




Tancredo
The liberal biased media doesn't like Tancredo because he speaks about reality and the truth. Living in California, I see what illegal immigration has done to the state and this country and it is appalling. I also blame Bush and his pack of idiots in this problem. We don't need a "comprehensive immigration plan". We need to erect a fence across the border and enforce EXISTING LAW! Enough of this PC garbage. The Pro-illegal crowd likes to call anyone who suggests enforcing the laws of this country a rascist. I saw nuts to you. You're the rascists and anarchists. Tancredo - you have more of my vote than the top tier idiots!

SteveL
There have been two attempts since 9/11. Granted they were half hearted, but it was proven that three of the terrorists came in from the southern border and couriously, none from the Canadian border. What happens if the next time it isn't half hearted and they are smarter? Do we wait for it to happen and loose a couple thousand people or more or do we make at least some attempt to deter it? An ounce of prevention....This doesn't even take into consideration the economical issues or the issue of the people who have been kidnapped. How about the fact that the Mexican army has fired on border guards?


Seal the Border Before We Seal Our Fate!!!

Hunter/Tancredo "08" "The Dream Team!!!"

Border Fence
Terrorists coming into this country by whatever means might be slowed down by the fence.It will also slow down the massive migration from south to north.Both things are the most important to the security of our country. GOD BLESS AMERICA

illegals
It is so sad that so many people are so ignorant of History and what it tells us. Romans were probably just as dumb before Rome fell. Germans were just as stupid as Hitler rose to power, destroyed Europe, murdered thousands of innocent people, and left a whole continent impotent. As someone whose ancestors were the very ones who came from that continent in the 1680's looking for freedom and set up this Country so magnificently, I find the short sightedness of so many of our citizens appalling.
Too many people today have their greedy little hands out looking for something for nothing and think as long as they remain with their heads in the sand they won't have to confront the grim horrors of another attack. They are right. They won't even see it come.
When it is all done and over with, these same ignorant people will ask (as the Germans did) what happened? And then, just as the splender of Europe is gone, so will the magnificance of America be gone and we can all slug around in the muck which is left.

Bouette
Imagine if you will bouette when the mall is bombed by a terrorist who crossed at the southern border that your family is there and killed (son,daughter,wife,mother,father) that you live. I would hope you would live a tortured life thereafter thinking to yourself....if only I had listened.

Up from the Rabbit hole
I feel like Alice when she finally got away from the Queen of Hearts (hey new name for Billary) some sanity for a change.

http://www.gohunter08.com/index.asp

How dare Tancredo tell the truth!
I just don't understand how telling the truth in blatant terms with no apologies gets people angry and worked up.

Fear mongering tactics? Please, give me a break. I don't know much about Tancredo, but I praise this ad he created. We need more fiery ads like this about immigration.

It's one thing if he exaggerates a lot, but he's not exaggerating here. He's putting forth scenarios that have actually happened in other countries, and are completely viable scenarios that can happen here.

One has to wonder if
even the scenarios described by Talent Scout would be enough to have the citizens of this nation remover their heads from the sand.

It's incredible how little comprehension regarding the security of this nation is still practiced, just unbelievable.

Bouette
And why do you think there hasn't been a major attack since 9/11? This thread is about border control, but if you want to idiotically suggest that the RIMs have backed off to give us time to breathe you are seriously delusional. We have a long ways to go, and border security should be at the top of the list, but you better believe our government has stepped it up to prevent further attacks.

For John @ 09:21
You're right that LSM (for lamestream media) don't like Tancredo--or anyone else who isn't bamboozled by their lies. Also true of pro-malfeasant crowd calling pro-enforcement as racist--one of those groatmorons actually termed me as "Uncle Tom" or "toady for whitey". The current immigration system however DOES need reform--say along the lines of Canada's "points" system (which the groatmorons also label as racist).

I personally believe (see my "simple rules" posts in response to Amanda Carpenter's column on La Raza, and a more recent column on illegal immigration by another columnist) that ALL citizens (including high officials) of a country who actively aid malfeasant immigration should be tried for treason; ALL non-citizens (even those having only naturalisation "swear-in" to complete) inside the country found doing so should be deported without trial and entry-barred for ETERNITY.

I have many reasons to vote for Tancredo:
(1) Shamnesty plan foisted by Jorge Bush Jr.
(2) no dhimmicrat (especially Shillary) being AGAINST malfeasant immigration
(3) My own having gone through immigration process dried up any sympathy for malfeasant aliens (though it DOES give me a humourous sympathy for Americans wanting to change-over to illegal-alien status so as to keep more of their paycheques)

What's incredible...
...is how overblown the fear. Some of you need to read Stossel's tracts on scaring ourselves to death. While any loss of life to terrorist's acts are tragic and deplorable. A dirty bomb, or a mad mall bomber are not going to seriously damage this country's economy if we do not over react and inflict harm upon ourselves. Please stop being so cowardly. Grow a little backbone.

I have a family, I have children, I have friends, and I would be personally devastated if any of them were hurt or killed, but I can keep it in perspective. However great my personal sense of loss, no matter how justified my rage at the injustice, it would not bring down the republic.

Consolidating the "Anti-illegal vote"
Folks, I know we can trust Tancredo, Hunter, and Fred to STAND AGAINST IMMIGRATION.

I do not believe we can trust Rudy, Mitt, Huckabee(openly pro-illegal nanny) or John McCain.

We have got to consolidate our votes! And I'm thinkin' it's got to be Fred, for alot of reasons. I'm afraid that if we don't back one we'll end up with a pro-illegal RINO.

You know that Murdoch (FOXnews) is pushin' HARD for a RINO. Any RINO- and failing that Hillary.
Glen Beck and Lou Dobbs tell the truth and Mark Levin is coming around to supporting Fred.

I wonder if now is the time for Hunter and Tancredo to make a deal with Fred- VP, Cabinet post- Homeland Security? Defense? And then campaign for and with Fred.

Fred is so far not a great campaigner- but I don't want a lyin' RINO for POTUS!

InsightingTruth
Oh.......so it ok to have a "little" damage so long as it is not big damage. Please define the upper limit of acceptable damage.
Don't even bother me with other spin or misdirection just answer the question. Lets see if we agree on the "acceptable" level of damage.

Got bad news -- they're here!
The third country nations (non-Mexicans) have been crossing the border for YEARS.

In Tucson AZ, there are active cells of Al Quedia, and Hamass on or near the University of Arizona. This was true in 1998, it's still true today.

Fort Huachuca is the Army's Intell central, located between Tucson and the Mexican Border. The MP's routinely find illegals "camping out" is areas of the base. There are "shoot outs" with drug and other smugglers.

I dare most people to look at a line up of recent illegal border crossers and tell BY APPEARANCE, who is Mexican and who isn't.

This all was in 1998, how much more of it in the nearly 10 years since?????


InsightingTruth its not fear its anger
Its anger against the idiots in congress that won’t resolve this problem of ILLEGAL immigration. Its anger that groups get special treatment. Most of us are descendants of LEGAL immigrants.
Funny how the most ardent defenders against illegal immigration are the first and second generation of LEGAL immigrants.
So its not fear about an attack from south of the border. Its anger about the open borders
The lack of protection in general and the failure of our elected official from BOTH parties to protect and defend something they ALL have sworn to do!

A little switch
To all of you who keep saying Hunter/Tancredo.. I like Tancredo/Hunter better, Just my opinion but I think Tancredo is more of a Constitutionalist and that's why he'd be 1st. ( I can't wait to here from the RP people to comment on that one..)

InsightingTruth its not fear its anger
Its anger against the idiots in congress that won’t resolve this problem of ILLEGAL immigration. Its anger that groups get special treatment. Most of us are descendants of LEGAL immigrants.
Funny how the most ardent defenders against illegal immigration are the first and second generation of LEGAL immigrants.
So its not fear about an attack from south of the border. Its anger about the open borders
The lack of protection in general and the failure of our elected official from BOTH parties to protect and defend something they ALL have sworn to do!

AF retiree
Hell, they are probably stopping at the chow hall for lunch by now.

How About An Army of 12 Million
Not only is it easy to cross the border but once after you getr here it is super easy to purchase weapons. I lived in the "Barrio" and know for a fact that about 95% of illegals spend their first paychecks on a handgun. Weapon of choice is a 9mm Llama.

12 Million armed invaders in our country. Even with only 9mm pistols, that is a formidable army.

How may terrorists have done the same thing?

And the dems want to take YOUR guns away from you!

Testable theory
Politics, as we all know are about creating an image to promote ideas and persons using Madison Avenue type sales pitches, like a Carnival huckster.
Same atmosphere surrounds a carnival as that around the political campaigns.

My theory is, the goal of many politicians is one world government.
Course they cannot say that openly.
So they ignore certain laws to create new laws, and it sells to pacify the masses as the media presents some new law as the healing salve to cure all evils.
Now the only way to bring a new government into power is to destroy the old one.
And as history shows say as in the Russian Revolution, the catalyst for change is to create chaos, then that opens the door for bringing in the changes that people will accept to stop the chaos.
I sincerely believe this is what our government is doing.

They will NOT stop the invasion of millions of unknowns into this country, and in fact are aiding and abetting the crimes of it all.
(as they instead focus all attention on traveling American Citizens)
This is creating chaos and anarchy, and the government has already created the new laws to use the US Military against American Civilians.

Any other theories?




Insighting truth
What about the economies of the small towns accross the nation that have those malls? Some of them are barely holding on since the deregulation of the utilities. The loss of tax revenues on these cities that have malls would be devastating. I know, you don't have a mall near you so you aren't going to worry about it, right? Let one mall get hit, and see what happens to the profits at the rest of the malls accross the States. How many people are going to pump their chest like you and say that was there not here so I'm going shopping at the mall? Lets even forget malls, what about one big auto plant here or one nuke plant? I don't really think you are that dumb to think it's no real threat.

Seal Our Border Before We Seal Our Fate!!!

Hunter/Tancredo "08" "The Dream Team!!"

svpallava
"ALL non-citizens (even those having only naturalisation "swear-in" to complete) inside the country found doing so should be deported without trial and entry-barred for ETERNITY."

I find that highly offensive. My wife and two step children are here on green cards. They came here the legal way. Yet, you want to snatch my family away from me?

I am pissed off that we allow illegal aliens to immigrate into our country without penalty and give them perks to boot, when we have had to pay good money and wade through beaurocratic red tape just to be here.

I live in Colorado
freedomlost writes: 10:36 AM
A little switch
To all of you who keep saying Hunter/Tancredo.. I like Tancredo/Hunter better, Just my opinion but I think Tancredo is more of a Constitutionalist and that's why he'd be 1st. ( I can't wait to here from the RP people to comment on that one..)
--------
He is for real, a Statesman, NOT a lying politician.
Having known Tom for several years, he says what he means and means what he says.
How refreshing he has been to listen to over the years and watch him DO exactly as He said he would.
(one thing he did not do as he said, he promised to just run twice, public DEMAND made him break that promise)
People like Hannity make me sick as he claims to be a conservative and chooses to back more RINO's saying Hunter or Tancredo has no chance.

Baloney!
Course they do, its just a matter of SAYING IT.
The RINO's are backed by the super rich men and get the right press releases, and the suckers listen to their packaged lies is the problem.

Only three men running worthy of consideration if we want honest people who love America.
Hunter, Tancredo or even Paul

Talent scout
This is what I have said since I "discovered" this NAU/one world gov't thing. Jorge's actions/inactions tell me he would love to have amnesty so that he could say what the hell they are all here now anyway. Why don't we make this one big North American Union. I admit, I was oblivious to all of this. I fully believe that 2/3 or more of the country does not know anything about this push for the opne world gov't or the LOST treaty. The mainstream media says NOTHING about it. But then they are part and parcel of the liberal left socialist machine. Papa Sorehole probably pays 'em to keep quiet about it.

Clay
Most of us only want to stop illegal immigration

Clay
I don't think he was talking about your family. I think he was talking about the law breakers that support and enable illegal immigration. From your post I don't think your family does that.

Seal The Border Before We Seal Our Fate!!

Hunter/Tancredo "08" The Dream Team!!

Not a coincidence
that the Europeans have awakened to the threat and are closing their borders and tightening up on immigration.

We are not racists and haters. What we want is control of who comes and goes. We want to protect our soverign nation which is being threatened by illegal immigration,and globilists,and people who want to give away our soverignty to the UN through the Law of the Seas treaty. The risk is that there will be a strong and continus push for isolationism and that would solve anything.

It's good
''Fear-mongering'' is good -- better to be scared and vigilant than smug and complacent. Ah, the MSM, what a bunch of losers and anti-American sympathizers. May their subscribers and viewers continue to dwindle. Le'Chaim.

Free Ramos and Compean
Please observe HillaryFascism Awareness Week
Global warming is sphere nonsense

Tnacredo needs a laptop
Is it fair that Tancredo is trailing in the presidential polls? I do not know. However, it is right. He is a xenophobe with parochial political horizons.

The desperation of the anti-immigration proponents and how to satisfy Tom Tancredo, is discussed at
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/Desperation.htm .

You see it clearly, the Eagles Eye

And NOT the vultures eyes.
---------

UncleB writes: 10:59 AM
Talent scout
This is what I have said since I "discovered" this NAU/one world gov't thing. Jorge's actions/inactions tell me he would love to have amnesty so that he could say what the hell they are all here now anyway. Why don't we make this one big North American Union. I admit, I was oblivious to all of this. I fully believe that 2/3 or more of the country does not know anything about this push for the opne world gov't or the LOST treaty. The mainstream media says NOTHING about it. But then they are part and parcel of the liberal left socialist machine. Papa Sorehole probably pays 'em to keep quiet about it.
---------

There are still yet many Eagles in America with the God given eye sight to see under the rocks the lying media and politicians are under.

Our "media" is all owned by the Corporations that sponsor the politicans to gain office to make the laws for their intended goal.
The One World Government they intend to bring onto the world.
Financed by the Super Rich men who see us all as here for their own use.
They recognize no mans rights but their own.
Their is Government, and they OWN IT.

We have no such a thing any longer in America as Representative Government subject to the CONSENT OF THE PEOPLE.

We have ACTORS for the most part who speak their lines in the public and then go about making their slimey deals behind closed dooors.

Just like the NAU Treaty of the Seas etc.

hagar - allow legal immigration
The simplest way to stop illegal immigration is by allowing more legal immigration. What is wrong with this?

Tancredo
I saw Tancredo discussing his ad. His ad is good. I was surprised that he is also pushing for in-state tuition for illegals. He can't play it both ways. When he opens up a perk for illegals they will come. If you live in NM you get free tuition for in-state students. Our high school soccer team just played against a school from Las Cruses, NM. The newspaper interviewed a player that scored the winning goal, he had to use an interpreter. He will also get free tuition to any NM College. Like I said give them a perk and they will come!

Diana48
You are mis-informed about Tom's stand on In State Tuition.
--------

The Nightmare is Over: Dream Act Defeated
Thanks to your actions, we have defeated the DREAM act amnesty. This bill would have given amnesty to any illegal alien who claimed to come to this country before they were 16 and got a high school diploma or GED. Originally there was no limit to how old you would have to be to be eligible for amnesty—a blatant invitation for fraud—and it included in state tuition for illegal aliens.

As we pounded the Senate, the open borders lobby added some lipstick to the pig to try to address these outrages, but they also added loopholes to make the changes meaningless. This didn’t fool anyone, and patriotic Americans continued to pressure the Senate until they finally gave up.
http://www.teamamericapac.org/

OK, Chavez, dictator president of.....

....Venezuela has announced he's going nuclear. With oil at today's prices and he's got lots of it, he can. Remember he's buddy, buddy with Iran and anybody else who hates the U.S.A. He's also set up training camps in Venezuela for M.E. terrorists to learn Spanish and how to cut their hair, hold their head and generally have the look of Latins so as to make their entrance and subsequent presence in the U.S. appear to be Latins.

Tancredo's politics are right on unless you are a despicable American traitor who hopes we get our comeuppance. If we can't seal the border, maybe we can seal the mouths of our home grown traitors. Think about it folks. We hang traitors. Only a very few need their personal comeuppance to give the rest of them time and opportunity to shut their filthy mouths.

Traitors are traitors, and damn them.


Terrorist fear mongering
There was a time that there was little fear mongering over terrorists. It was < = 9/10.

Sounds like a number of our liberal ronpaul types think 9/11 was acceptable.

Its just too scary for some in the real world and they would rather pretend its not really there.

Oh and !
http://www.gohunter08.com

correction
Just like the NAU and Treaty of the Seas etc.

Talent Scout
PLEASE...keep the Eagle's Eyes focused. I'll do all I can to help.
Here is a pretty good website about the NAU. Several pages provide great historical information about the push for one world gov'ts.
http://www.stopthenorthamericanunion.com/

hak what is wrong
Nothing is wrong with increasing legal immigration with limits. For over 100 years there have been limits and requirements for who can come here when. The US is large but not large enough to allow everyone that would like to be here in. Countries have self interest to allow in people with needed skills who would integrate and be positive contributors. Unfortunately because of our growing welfare state many new comers are here for the free ride. Also there should be no “special” groups. Like it or not it appears that the current open borders crowd is slanted to Latinos there needs to be a managed balance

This article
is excellent. I'm so happy to see someone take up for Tom Tancredo. He has been right for years now, with no one paying any attention to him.

Lou Dobbs, and Glen Beck, are truly the ones fighting illegal immigration. oh yeah, Geraldo called Lou dobbs a immigrant hater, and a latino hater this morning on Fox and Friends.(just had to throw that in)
Our government and the media, are playing down the problem. Something must be done, just as Mr. Tancredo says.

Vigilance is good...
...fear is counter productive.

My Dear Fellow Citizens:
I do not want to see anyone hurt. I live in a town with malls, and utility plants, and reservoirs, and all the other vulnerabilities you can cite. I can not define how much damage is too much. No one can do that.
One must rationally evaluate the danger if one is to deal with it effectively. I do not get some perverse satisfaction out of the suffering of the friends and families of 9/11 victims. But, I do understand that my risk of dying in a bathtub accident is far greater that my dying at the hands of a terrorist. Let's not even talk about the risks I take on our roads.
Our economy suffers from terrorist events more because of expectations than because of reality. We are told that the markets will fall, so we rush to sell our stock, and the markets fall. I know the story is more complex, but a full explanation would take far more time than can be spent here.
My appeal to you is to adopt some perspective. I will not surrender my liberties easily. I need your help to get back the one's I've lost. Ron Paul offers me a glimmer of hope. I'm here to fan that small spark.

eastlake joe/hagar
"I don't think he was talking about your family. I think he was talking about the law breakers that support and enable illegal immigration. From your post I don't think your family does that."

No my family members aren't for illegal immigration in any way shape or form and they aren't lawbreakers either. My wife understands the problem of illegal immigration. Her country is being overrun by both legal and illegal immigrants.

"Clay
Most of us only want to stop illegal immigration."

I'm on your side.

Hak & the real world
You seem to be glossing over one little fact in your link and so do your friends you linked to in that open letter. We are talking about ILLEGAL immigration. Not only are the "low skill" Americans getting hosed so are the Illegals. In New Hampshire a few years back a van was pulled over and 10 men who were paid less the twenty dollars a day were taken in to custody. The guy who ran that business still charge 5K to put your roof on but he wouldn't hire American or LEGAL aliens to work for him... How would that benefit America? This is but one example of why you and the people who think like you need a little time in the real world.

Go back to sleep Hak or where ever......

.....you came from, ie., Poland.

Do you use drugs. Do you think(sic) that legalizing drugs would make it a non crime and a good idea.??.

Could you live better if drugs were legal.??. Would "this" country be better off if drugs were legal.??.

How many millions would come, HAK, if immigration (migration) were completely legal. 50 million, 100 million, 250 million, 500 million, one billion.??.

Yes, more than one billion. That wouldn't leave room for you HAK so why don't you get an early start and leave now.(not a question)


hak: "The simplest way to stop

illegal immigration is by allowing more legal immigration. What is wrong with this?"

What's wrong with this? It's such a ridiculously stupid argument, that's what wrong with it.

Just for starters, illegal aliens are bankrupting this country, and hak thinks we should allow more in???

How about this? Those cigaretts are killing you, hak! So here, smoke more and more and more.

That's just as stupid and ridiculous as your argument.







Inconceivable!
I keep hearing the character in The Princess Bride saying, "Inconceivable!" Right before he dies.

That is the main problem with all of us. We live in this wonderful country called the USA. We have never known anything other than freedom, and since the Civil Rights Movement, that freedom is granted to ALL.

Now we just can't conceive of how it could change to anything else.

Read 'Because they Hate' by Brigitte Gabriel...for no other reason than to see how a once peaceful country devolved into a war zone.

We better wake up and smell the coffee. Will we turn into a war zone overnight with a few random terrorist attacks...maybe not...What do you think it would really take?

A city here and there, a state-wide crisis?

How many of you are willing to risk your neck of the woods with the hope that it'll happen in the state next door, or the city across the country, or the neighborhood school on the other side of town?

Until we recognize that our freedom is precious and never ever guaranteed just because we want it to be so, we are vulnerable.

Scary commercial? Get real...Nobody is scared because nobody thinks it is reality...just like the shock/gory/evil-incarnate movies that many flock to for 'entertainment.' (I've never quite figured that out, btw)

What if one of the candidates did one of those movie trailer things...Images of terrorist attacks, beheadings, bus bombings, limbs lost to land minds that said, "This time it's REAL."

Gee
Hak, lets just have open borders and open citizenship. Therefore, nobody is illegal. Problem soved. All is right with the world.

Mrs Paddy
Good post!!

Clay vs svpallava

Clay, his post is unclear, but his message is.

Those aiding and abetting fugitive illegals regardless of their origin or naturalization status should be charged. In the case of those unnaturalized it would prevent their naturalization and cause their subsequent deportation. That is what he meant to say however convoluted it may have appeared.

I have read many of svpallava's posts. He is a straight up guy, and immigrant himself and is flatly against illegal immigration. (migration without papers) svpallava is an outstanding American to my casual observation, and quite sharp about things.

Clay, you have many people like myself and Lou Dobbs and McKinney who have wives and children who are Latins or of any other national origin who are flat out against this present U.S. policy. This horrible situation sinks all boats and floats only the migrant and his boss. All the rest of the country is badly hurt, and much more so day by day as time advances.


InsightingTruth
Just out of curiosity what liberties have you lost?

Clay

We need immigrants without the baby killing we are daily doing to ourselves and to our God, but with this killing of babies we doubly need them.

However, they must be legal. We must know who and why they are coming to this country. Married couples always have preference, and educated foreigners who go through the paper work and interviews and medical exams are also welcome.

We can even receive the poor from numerous countries, and we can change the numbers to be higher per year, but they must be "LEGALALLY admited.


>Sorry folks

LEGALLY is as LEGALALLY was not.

Let's face reality
The reality is, I am glad I don't live in New York and I don't go to shopping center much. It IS going to happen, it is a matter of when it will happen. I don't think it will matter who is in that seat. Our children and grandchildren will pay a huge price. Glad I probably won't be here to see it.

InsightingTruth
ok you have concerns also. Maybe not the sense of pending danger like some of us. We will sit out front and "worry". And, trust you will back us up when the do-do hits the fan.
I was in Iran in the late 70's when the Shah was being deposed.There were periods when there was definate danger. My group wanted to leave because of the perceived danger. We were told oh don't worry we will tell you when it is time to leave. Our question was lwhen will you know it is time to leave. They could only agree they could only KNOW when it was probably too late. About a week later the Shah left and the Army was in charge and the shooting was all over the place. Flights were intermittant in and out. We barely goton a flight to leave for England.
The point is everyone has to decide for themselves when it is "time".

onceamarine
I have a German friend who was married to a serviceman. Her three daughters have US citizenship, but she doesn't. She is waiting still for a chance to come to our country legally, and doesn't understand why she has to wait, when so many just pour across our borders.

Tancredo
I'm glad Tancredo has the cojones to say the truth. The major problem in this country are the Communists. From giving away our sovreignty, to a National Health Care plan and open borders. Our President is a loser allowing himself to be swung back and forth like a puppet.

Imagine the all the so called "GOOD THINGS" the socialist want to bring about after an A-Bomb is set off in a few major cities. We gotta dump this bunch of elected dumb bastards and do it each and every election until they are purged from this great and beautiful Nation,

P.S. Get the hell out of the roach infested U.N. and get that decadent den of inequity out of the country.


YLG
all she has to do is go to Mexico first. Then risk a swim across the Rio. It is a shame. People willing to do things right get screwed. The ones that ignore the law have no problem. Whats up with that?

Knight Who Said NI:
Have you been watching O'Reilly again. That is his line.

Once, while on a plane headed to Chicago, I heard O'Reilly ask that same question. In just a few minutes I jotted down 10 lost liberties with the intention of sending the list to his email. However, I decided not too.

The reason I decided not to send him the list is because it would not change his mind. He would continue to posit the same stupid question again and again.

I have lost much in the way of personal freedom during the decades of my life. But, I know that no matter which one's I list, a big government apologist such as yourself will argue that surrendering that particular freedom is a small sacrifice, necessary for the preservation of civil society.

My freedoms are mine by birthright. They cannot be separated from me by any force save death. If you have not witnessed an erosion of your rights during your lifetime, you are blind. I am not trying to be insulting, but no one who has lived even one scant decade has not experienced some loss of personal freedom.

Sophia
You CANNOT AND WILL NOT tell me my fears are despicable. Should you try, You are the one that is despicable and should be lumped in with the terrorists and be pitied. For you are ignorant of your surroundings.

American Pilot
DITTO on the Useless Nations and LOST treaty.

hagar
Tell me about it.

I grew up just 20 miles from the Texas border. There were days when I couldn't play outside because my mom saw many "mojados" following the railroad tracks behind our house. This was before security systems were available to us common folk. Our security system consisted of my mother's sharp eyes and even sharper tongue! Some would come up and ask for water, and my mom, after a tongue-lashing, would point to the hose and turn discreetly away. And before anybody freaks out about the hose: if it was good enough for her kids, it was good enough for them.

UncleB:
You relied on someone else to make the call for you. Americans have been conditioned for nearly a century to believe that they need bureaucrats and politicians to make decisions for them. In light of that, your sense of dependence can be excused. As you state in your last sentence, my appeal is to Americans that want to make their own decisions. Stop using personal fear and uncertainty as an excuse for empowering government. Believe me, our own government is a far greater danger to our continued liberty than is any foreign group or nation. The Framers saw that, and tried to limit the growth of government. We have failed them, their enlightened vision, our selves and our posterity by allowing government to get way too large. Let's get together and reverse that!

hagar - the Freedom of Migration Act
You did not watch my video about the Freedom of Migration Act proposal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i8xbHNCxoU
Most illegal immigrants are Mexicans as they have unfair advantage. If you establish reasonable rules of legal immigration, the population of immigrants would be much more diverse, hence better assimilating.

When it comes to regulating legal immigration, how many of legal immigrants should we admit per year?

What about following the concept of the Freedom of Migration Act, and admitting only guest workers, and then giving immigration papers only to those who stayed for five years and already assimilated?

Read about it at:
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/immigration.htm

Anne does not get it
You write "Just for starters, illegal aliens are bankrupting this country, and hak thinks we should allow more in???"

As it was requested many times here before. I see the difference between the legal and illegal immigration. Let us eliminate illegal immigration just by making legal immigration working right. What is wrong with this?

InsightingTruth
By NO means do I entrust or empower this current gov"t. What I and I hope most others want is to return to a gov't we CAN TRUST. I must say that I am growing weary of the day to day grind of work, going to school at night AND watching to make sure the socalled gov't does not give away the farm and get us all killed in the process.
If WE THE PEOPLE had not made ourselves heard on immigration and LOST (pending) The current bunch of socialists in our legislature from what I can see is bent on giving the country away so that they have no real responsability but still collect their fat paycheck and benifits.

Freedomlost, less Lou Dobbs, please
Guys working for $20 per day (I doubt it is true, but let it be) are paid as little as they are not worth much more. I employed illegal immigrants; those that are worth as much as American workers, pretty soon want to be paid as much as well. And most of them manage to do so.

BTW, check what I wrote about freedom lost
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/freedom_lost.htm

sophia
So....this means you whistle all the way to the gallows. Someone else above characterized it correctly. It is not fear. It is ANGER.

oceanmarine lives in the fantasy world
You write: "How many millions would come, HAK, if immigration (migration) were completely legal. 50 million, 100 million, 250 million, 500 million, one billion.??.

Yes, more than one billion. That wouldn't leave room for you HAK so why don't you get an early start and leave now.(not a question)"

Why do we have 12 million of illegal immigrants(or whatever the real number is), not ten times less or ten times more?

We have 12 million of illegal immigrants, because economy needed as many workers. As our immigration laws do not allow people to come and work here legally, they arrived illegally.

If we would abandon our current idiotic immigration laws, we still would have the same 12 million of immigrants but they would be legal.

New CAMPAIGN SONG
For Duncan Hunter! My blog

Timely op-ed
As usual, the brilliant, beautiful, and insightful Diana West 'gets it' by highlighting the dire absence of fear over another terrorist attack.

We are extremely vulnerable on our borders. One attack was indeed thwarted when a border agent with an IQ above room temperature was aware enough by the nervousness and perspiration of a jihadist at a border checkpoint in the NW on Muslim's intended way to blow up part of LAX.

Tancredo isn't a serious candidate; however, he raises serious issues in much of the same role as Socrates being a gadfly to Athens.

Who knows, I may even vote for him. If only Diana West were running...

http://www.burketobristol.blogspot.com

UncleB:
Based on the content of your 1:01 PM post we agree completely. That is why it is imperative that we all support Ron Paul. He is the only candidate that intends to reverse the trend toward larger more expensive government.

Hi Sophia
"By not giving in to fear, I am thwarting their strategy... People! Whatever happened to "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself"?????? "

Most of these folks and certainly the Bush Regime thrive on fear. I am not sure if it is an innate cowardice or a lack of basic courage to face a threat and carry on. That is how you beat terrorism. I really think the reason we have not been attacked again is we are behaving exactly how the terrorists want us to behave.

InsightingTruth
I like/agree with most liberatarian views. But, their isolationist tendancies scare/concern me. The world has become too small for a country to try and isolate themselves and still thrive.

InsightingTruth
Well nice post even if you do assume you know me.

I did notice you don't mention one liberty that you have lost, even though you wrote you had a nice sized list.

I don't know about Bill O'Rielly but I have noticed that people who make claims about all the liberties they have lost, such as yourself, do have a hard time pointing any out.

HalD
OH Gawd!!!! I can't stand it....I actually agree with HalD on something. I suspect he will ruin it in his next post.
But, (this hurts)he is right that at one reason we have not been attacked again is that we are fighting amongst ourselves so hard that any attack by the terrorists would unite us against them. Kinda like a family fight. Punch kick and gouge each other but don't let anybody else try to get in on it. We would turn on them.

UncleB agreement 2
"I like/agree with most liberatarian views. But, their isolationist tendancies scare/concern me. The world has become too small for a country to try and isolate themselves and still thrive."

Very true especially when we are what 5% at best of the world's population and consuming what 20%precent of the world's resources? There is zero way we could be isolationist and maintain our lifestyle.

UncleB:
You impress me as a polite and rational individual. It is not accurate to call Libertarians or Dr. Paul isolationists. Non-interventionists are a very different animal. Please, avail yourself of some definitions. Do not just go on repeating the rants of the uninformed pundits and posters on TH. Those people that try to smear Paul with innuendo, misrepresentations, and circular arguments have an anti-American agenda.

UncleB
Have you noticed not one blog around about Nuclear Pakistan coming apart and Al Q having a chance to get a nuke? Head in the sand, head in the sand,,,,,

Knight Who Said NI;
I declined to go into it in this forum only. I will happily discuss specifics with you. Send an email to insightingtruth@gmail.com. I assure you I will have no trouble enumerating examples.

UncleB
"we are fighting amongst ourselves so hard that any attack by the terrorists would unite us against them."

I really never have understood why we need to all get along (amongst ourselves). It's great that the terrorist see the libs/dems as allies. The dems then treat them like they do their other constituents, they screw them over, never fulfilling their promises while giving them token lip service. (i.e. retreating)

When and if the time comes again to totally unite I believe we will. Its only sad that if that time comes it will most likely mean we failed and thousands of more are dead.

sophia
OK, I had to go puke. I am in at least some agreement with HalD and Sophia.
Sophia, Current circumstances in Pakistan notwithstanding we cannot go into the places in Pakistan where Bin-whathisname is hiding. A lot like viet nam and cambodia and laos. We can do some special ops stuff. But no real operations. Geographically, Iraq is in the middle of the middle east (mostly). Aw hell this is gonna get too involved to explain here. We are at least positioned to respond as best we can.

Sophia:
How brave of you! It will be interesting to see how Knight and others respond.

InsightingTruth
Oh please, if you cannot make the tiny effort required to simply type some down and hit enter why would I assume you can later.

Decrying your lost liberties with no examples and an inability to give any shows the huge weakness of your argument. Unless you can supply some you are guilty of Empty rhetoric.

hak
The only way you will stop those from crossing the southern border is to allow all who come here for work to become legal. Well shoot, you might as well just grant them amnesty. It's easier and there's less paperwork.

Good ad, good article
Thanks to Tom Tancredo and Diana West for, once again, pointing out that there is no logic in claiming we're fighting a "War on Terror" (shouldn't this be War on Terrorists?) if we leave our borders wide open.

No thanks Knight
My offer remains open. I know from experience that this venue is not conducive to reasoned exchange. No matter what lost liberty I focus on, subsequent comments will be derisive and belittling. Competent discussion will be drowned out by name calling and personal attacks. It is not that I am afraid of such things, you know, "sticks & 'stones", but it just serves no purpose. I'll talk to you about it, but I won't waste my time fending off fools.

sophia
Other than satistyingyour sense of importance what good does it do to dwell on what we did or didn't do in the past. Best we can do is learn from it and make the best of any future opportunities. We will accomplish nothing with shoudda coudda woudda but to use up bandwith.

Knight Who Said NI
"...It's great that the terrorist see the libs/dems as allies. The dems then treat them like they do their other constituents, they screw them over, never fulfilling their promises while giving them token lip service. (i.e. retreating)"

See here right here is the lie. Bush is the leader of this country and a failed leader. No one wants to remove him from power or correct our failed anti terrorist strategy. So for the next year or so the terrorists have free reign. The conservatives too cowardly to admit their failures; it remains to see how the D's would respond if they did. So knight you are tragicly wrong in your word choice

"When and if the time comes again to totally unite I believe we will. Its only sad that if that time comes it will most likely mean we failed and thousands of more are dead. "

I hope it doesn't come to that but I will love to see you get behind presiden clinton

to all
Well I fell for it. This thread is about immigration (illegal) and sophia has momentarily succeded in changing the subject. Much the way most socialists do. Lead you into a canyon and ambush you.

sophia, InsightingTruth
Interesting when you actually start looking into it.

"Chris Hansen a senior ACLU attorney and lead counsel for the case remarked "The White House has gone too far in its attempt to make dissent invisible," "When taxpayers foot the bill for a public event, the president does not have the right to use a partisan litmus test to stack the audience with his political supporters.""

The problem the ACLU seems to have is not what they did but how far they went with it. I wonder if its because this goes on at all political rallies regardless of party and that it has been going on sense the creation of political parties.

I think I agree with you both. Anyone should be allowed into political rallies. Could be really bad news for hillery though, the only way she has a chance is to keep he environment controlled. The debate prior to Vegas proved that.

Folks
If you wanted to close borders to counter terrorism you would be clamoring for the Canadian Border to be tightened. Any terrorist will go that way first not Mexico. Why not have a good highway rather than a walk in the desert?

clintonians
Behind a clinton is the only place to be. That way they cannot stab you in the back.
And so it appears the kos trolls are here now.
Serious discussion is dead.
Later y'all

Hal Donahue
You must not pay much attention outside of your lib circles. With the situation improving in Iraq and 5,000+ of your terrorist allies rounded up and the number of terrorist attacks successfully stopped you must be quite depressed.

"I hope it doesn't come to that but I will love to see you get behind presiden clinton"

The funny thing is, unlike you, I would.
Unless of course she wanted to surrender.

Tnacredo is correct
but our elite politicians just don't get it! Neither the GOP nor the Dems are going to move too fast on this issue.

The reason is because we squashed their tidy little plan last June to give all the illegals a free ticket, and now they are mad at "we the people"! When the terrorists do strike somewhere, the elites will come up with some reason, most likely that we didn't support their comprehensive plan, so its our own fault.

It is time to get rids of these hypocrites. If you want to learn how, visit my website, JOEOLIVAFORPRESIDENT.ORG, and you will find the only candidate who is actually going to do something for the owners of this nation, with no apologies. The only question is what are yuou going to do? Think about it! Vote the lesser of two evils again? Thanks, Joe

sophia
Well we could ague about individual instances all day. Is that what you mean by lost liberties? Tragic mistakes?

If thats the case, we need to eliminate our entire judicial system and find a perfect one quick.

Tancredo's not about fear, about truth..

So here we go again. The MSM calls it fear, and everybody spends the rest of the day talking about "fear".

The truth is not fear. The truth shall set you free "to do something about a bad situation".

For how many times, years, are we going to let others define what is, is. We know why this is a bad situation. I haven't seen the add, but would be surprised if it is about "fear". Oh, "fear".

Fear for your sanity if you let the MSM and your enemies define reality.

And tell HAK to go tee tee off. Go tee tee HAK.

Did you see what the Canadian police did to another pollack crazy (oh, excuse me, I meant polish citizen) yesterday, HAK.


Knight Who Said NI
"You must not pay much attention outside of your lib circles. With the situation improving in Iraq and 5,000+ of your terrorist allies rounded up and the number of terrorist attacks successfully stopped you must be quite depressed. "

Nearly the entire US military has been tied up in, coming or going from/to Iraq for how many years now? 6+? This is success? You missed the US Government reports that say Al Q is clearly at or above its strength on 9/11? Al Q has safe areas in Nuclear Pakistan and is breaking out of those destabilizing that dictatoeship. The Taliban contraols whole areas of Afghanistan. Clearly our military did everything asked but the Bush regime and the rest of government failed or if this is success how much more of it can we stand

"I hope it doesn't come to that but I will love to see you get behind presiden clinton"

"The funny thing is, unlike you, I would."
Unless of course she wanted to surrender.

Oh surrender to who? there is no one but ragtag terrorists who somehow slaughtered 3000 of our people and still exist. My guess you blindly followed this failed leader you will blindly follow Hillary

onceamarine
Thanks for the info on svpallava. I'll take your word on it. I was responding to what he was saying. I haven't heard from him back so until he clears it up it will remain offensive.

I'm with you on everything you are saying. As I stated before, I am against illegal immigrants period. In my opinion they should be rounded up and deported immediately.

The top people working in security
today tell us it’s not a matter of IF the U.S. will suffer a terrorist related nuclear attack, but WHEN. But let’s not over react. Political correctness is, after all, of paramount importance.

The trouble with people like Tancredo is that they get blackballed not only in the media but by people within their own party. Right from the start, editorial writers and even those in the conservative arena labeled Tancredo a second or third tier candidate. What I would like to know is WHO DECIDES THESE THINGS?? This man is not some Joe Schmo from nowhere. He is a U.S. Senator who was reelected by the people of his state by a 59%-40% margin! How is this man considered second tier, yet some peanut farmer from Georgia was a shoe in for President of the United States?!!

A Tom Tancredo or a Ron Paul could get elected if the pundits could keep their mouths shut at least until the people have provided some feedback. For instance, I have heard numerous writers on TH claim that Ron Paul is a nut job, but they won’t say why they think this. These are conservative editorialists whom I usually trust. Why smear a man without a good reason? Is this fair? Is it just? If you can’t articulate in plain language why you think poorly of someone, but instead trash them with unsubstantiated name calling, then you are no better than the liberals.

Tancredo - great tradition of McCarthy
Tancredo must think he is in a race to see who can increase the fear factor to fever pitch. Although he is not as nasty a character as Joe McCarthy, his message is the same - scare the American public with fantasies of unimagined horror, so we will readily give up our liberty for security, and start witch hunts against the innocent. This is in the great tradition of Republican politics and plays to the base, the white base that is. If you're not white you're not right is their motto. I hope America has caught on to this game and will vote fear mongers like Tancredo out of office. He doesn't do America proud.

sophia
I think you are missing the real bottomline here. These people live in constant fear of terrorists always, last year gays and this year it looks like immigrants but fear always. Being so frightened they will gladly sacrifice liberty for perceived safety. Isn't this the approach that the old Soviet Union took against the West?

Hal Donahue
"Nearly the entire US military has been tied up in, coming or going from/to Iraq for how many years now? 6+? This is success?"

I'm sorry, are we screwing up your itinerary?
Is there a time limit in a war?

HAL 1:
"You missed the US Government reports that say Al Q is clearly at or above its strength on 9/11?"

HAL 2:
"Oh surrender to who? there is no one but ragtag terrorists who somehow slaughtered 3000 of our people and still exist."

Hal you seem confused. Take a breath and remember which line of BS you trying to spew.

sophia
Do you know you started the rendition policy? I bet you think if was GW.

Must run been fun
CYA Monday

Knight Who Said NI
"I'm sorry, are we screwing up your itinerary?
Is there a time limit in a war?"

Actually yes there usually is. The longer a war goes on the weaker the stronger participant becomes

"HAL 1:
"You missed the US Government reports that say Al Q is clearly at or above its strength on 9/11?"

HAL 2:
"Oh surrender to who? there is no one but ragtag terrorists who somehow slaughtered 3000 of our people and still exist."

Hal you seem confused. Take a breath and remember which line of BS you trying to spew."

Al Q always was a ragtag group of terrorists and still is

How indeed?
From the article: "Indeed, how does any credible, responsible presidential candidate ignore the potential connection between shopping-mall targets and porous borders?"

Yes, how indeed? Considering the fact that terrorist are worldwide and could slip across our borders just as easily as 12-40 million have in the last 10-20 years...

As displayed on Michelle Malkins site yesterday:

"The establishment media is seemingly obsessed with “grim milestones” in the War on Terror, as the Associated Press reminds us this past weekend. But in the next week those same establishment media outlets will probably stand mute when yet another “grim milestone” is reached – the10,000th attack by Islamic terrorists and militants since 9/11, which is responsible for approximately 60,000 dead and 90,000 injured.
The chronicler of this bloody tally is Glen Reinsford, editor of TheReligionofPeace.com, who began compiling and updating daily a detailed list of reported incidents of violence and terrorism around the world targeting non-Muslims and Muslims alike. Because of space limitations he only posts the past two months worth of attacks on his websites main page, though he has archived all of the incidents from past years (2001-2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007). He also maintains a banner graphic with the updated number of attacks, which people can post on their own websites.

When asked what prompted him to begin such a labor-intensive undertaking, Reinsford identifies the tepid response to Islamic terrorism by otherwise outspoken Muslim groups, with one organization particularly in mind:
The Council on American-Islamic Relations."

He should also have added theliberal neo-commie democrats and MSM in our country.

Folks
Be well and have a great weekend. Sophia as always great seeing you.

Check out Ron Paul about Immigration
You'll like what you see. He is gaining in popularity and truly is hope for America. He is an honest politician, and this is a shocking truth! Google Ron Paul and join the Revolution! Remember November 5th.... December 16 will be the next wake up call for all freedom lovers!

Sophia and others
You are so brave, you must be from the beltway and Maryland area when the ROP Snipers were at work. I applaud your courage to go shopping, brouse the malls and generally carry on. Now if you could only persuade the rest to do so. They can get some training but coming to Tx, walk over the border and spend some time in Mexico; then practice the ROP position and pick up some of the tons of trash left by the invaders,
OT: Rights lost. The rule of law. Expecting bad drivers to have a drivers liscense and insurance(fake doesn't count). Not having my SS# used by someone else or passed around by Sutton to drug dealers to go with the green cards and get out of jail cards.

Always singing out of tune
SteveL writes: 8:56 AM
Conflating two different issues
What's wrong with the Tancredo ad is that it attempts to conflate terrorism with Hispanic immigration across America's southern border. That's an emotional appeal that does not jibe with the facts:
----------

ts:
Seeing your many posts SteveL, facts are the last thing you are interested in.
Is your real name Jose?

Tancredo's TV spot is a first. It highlights the fact that our borders are open to more than just cheap labor by depicting the ease with which a terrorist enters a shopping mall --

THERE IS A FACT YOU WANT IGNORED.
go back to Mexico

Fear Mongering: Global Warming Much?
I think telling all the kids they're going to drown with the polar bears is about the lowest example of fear propaganda in human history.

Hal Donahue
"Most of these folks and certainly the Bush Regime thrive on fear. I am not sure if it is an innate cowardice or a lack of basic courage to face a threat and carry on. That is how you beat terrorism. I really think the reason we have not been attacked again is we are behaving exactly how the terrorists want us to behave."

And just how are we behaving that the terrorists want? In fear? So then, if we face the threat and carry on they will resume attacking us?

The problem is, you've got it all backwards. We aren't cowering in fear, we are facing the threat and carrying on at the same time. Shopping malls are still thriving, and we are facing the terrorists and kicking their butts in Iraq and Afghanistan and guess what? They don't dare attack us again. Maybe they can't. They are too busy facing us over there, plus Homeland Security seems to be working just fine.

No terrorist attack on US soil in 6 + years. Hmmmm....

sophia
"Hopefully with a new administration the fear and loathing era will come to an end!"

Under a democrat administration and congress there will finally be an era of fear and loathing. Neville Chamberlin's ghost will be back in power and the crocodile is licking his chops.

Yes, Hak I'm a lair...
your wrote;

"Freedomlost, less Lou Dobbs, please
Guys working for $20 per day (I doubt it is true, but let it be) are paid as little as they are not worth much more."

Now, that's freakin' compassionate!

And I love this part... " I employed illegal immigrants; those that are worth as much as American workers, pretty soon want to be paid as much as well. And most of them manage to do so."

So now your an admitted criminal, hiring Illegals and I'm suppose to take your opinion seriously? You seem to ok with Illegals drive down wages. Remember the New Bedford MA clothing manf. who was paying his people $6.50/hr and giving them one roll of TP for each bathroom. No one but an Illegal would put up with that. We also have the Swift meat packing plants they paid less money to illegals but after they were raided they paid Americans more and people lined up around the building to get jobs, who would've thunk it! Again ,you need to spend some time in the real world.

For the record. the cop's name In New Hampshire is Garrett Chamberlain. here's a story about him and his adventures with the Illegals.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/0 6/09/AR2005060902035_2.html
the New Beford raid.
http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo-20070306-immigratio nraid.25f7a41d.html

Meat packers.
http://www.numbersusa.com/text?ID=885



When it happens
These people who are accusing Tancredo, and others of fear mongering, and love to laugh at those of us who are worried, and make their cute little remarks, will be the ones out front yelling "who knew, and when did they know it". You all are the pathetic ones.

An excellent article
For those Tancredo-Hunter supporters, I agree with you all the way. Ihave lived in a border state all my life and see first hand what is going on with this illegal immigrant problem. A lot of people don't want to see the problem.
To those who support the illegals, I say to you, send me a monthly check for my rising taxes for schools, medical insurance (I don't use the emergency room as my primary care doctors and don't get food stamps). My and my wife's Skandinavian and Russian grandparents, like many other legal immigrants did not receive free medical, free schooling, were not paid in cash, did not have bi-lingual education and wanted to become patriotic Americans. They did not demand that one must press 1 for another language, they were proud to learn and speak English, their children were born at home with a possible midwife. So if the kids made it fine..

So, help me out here. What is going to happen to the USA, its culture, its language, and its resources if this present trend continues.

I realize many others I know feel the same way, so who besides Tancredo and Hunter have what it takes to turn the tide?

Sophia, pt. 1
"Democrats just differ in their ideas on how to deal with the issue..."

What are those different ideas?

You do realize that if we cut and run from Iraq it will create a vaccuum that terrorists will rush into fill resulting in a blood bath that makes our occupation there look tame in comparison? Plus, it will provide the Islamic terrorists with a nation to operate out of.

It will also send a message to the rest of the world that you can't trust America, as she is not really serious about liberty and will leave you to the wolves instead of stay and finish the course.

It will also send a message to our troops and the families of the loved ones who have paid the ultimate sacrifice that their efforts were all for nothing. All that time in harms way separated from their family was meaningless.


Sophia, pt. 2
"I do not however loathe all moslems."

Neither do I.

"Although I recognise a problem, I also do not loathe illegal immigrants."

Neither do I.

"Now more than ever we should remember FDR's words regarding fear..."

Soberly recognizing a grave threat to our way of life and freedom is not the same thing as being afraid.

Svara
I understand the way you feel, and you are right!!


Those who come to this country legally, have a rough time of it, and make it because they want to do it right. And have a pride in what they do, and in the United States. This illegal immigration is so unfair to those who play by the rules, and obey the laws. It is a sin and a shame.

Duncan Hunter is to be on Bill O'Reilly tonight on Fox News. Those of you interested, tune in and watch.

Nothing there to miss
sophia writes: 3:51 PM
Hey Talent Scout
You miss me?

sophia
"If we sacrifice any of our freedoms (privacy, etc..)..."

How is yours or my privacy being sacrificed. I don't make phone calls or send e-mails to terrorists and neither do you.

NEWS ALERT
The drug smuggler that testified against Ramos and Compean, has just been indicted for smuggling drugs into the United States. Johnny Sutton has had to admit that this scum lied on the stand, so maybe something will be done at long last to free these two border agents.

Lets talk about "fear mongering"
All coming from the idiots like algore.
From the likes of clowns in hollywood, and from the corporate "news" entertainment and special effects of abc, cbs, nbc, and cnn etc.

Just one of the statements from this lunatic, algore:

Two thousand scientists, in a hundred countries, engaged in the most elaborate, well organized scientific collaboration in the history of humankind, have produced long-since a consensus that we will face a string of terrible catastrophes unless we act to prepare ourselves and deal with the underlying causes of global warming.

AL GORE, speech at National Sierra Club Convention, Sept. 9, 2005
---------

Every generation on earth has experienced natural calamities, long before some idiots decided the ice would all melt and flood coastal cities.

Here we have the dimwits like algore, honored for real fear mongering, yet Tancredo speaks the truth and the facts, and it has the left withering with fear and trembling over something they do not even believe exists.

And in the face of ever present evidence of the terrorists and their deeds and acts of terror, all across the world.

Genuine Blue Ribbon, Authenic Idiots

Clay
"You do realize that if we cut and run from Iraq it will create a vaccuum that terrorists will rush into fill resulting in a blood bath that makes our occupation there look tame in comparison? Plus, it will provide the Islamic terrorists with a nation to operate out of. "

See here is a lie plain and simple. There is no "cut and run" plan from Iraq. The blood bath has been taking place and in case you had not noticed the Biden plan is exactly what we are using in Iraq now.

"It will also send a message to the rest of the world that you can't trust America, as she is not really serious about liberty and will leave you to the wolves instead of stay and finish the course."

Nonsense and if you don't know it you should.

"It will also send a message to our troops and the families of the loved ones who have paid the ultimate sacrifice that their efforts were all for nothing. All that time in harms way separated from their family was meaningless."

Really? They defeated two large nations in 18 months and they are an instrument of national power serving the country that is what gives meaning. Were the marines in Lebanon wasted and meaningless? If not tell me how and why. Our troops deserve more than buzz words and talking points and a large segment even a majority want out of Iraq

Rep. Tancredo Responds To Criticism Of H
Terrorists Infiltrating Through Mexico

FBI SAID TANCREDO IS RIGHT!

Watch Video

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/rep-tancredo-respo nds-to-criticism-of-his-new-ad





clay
"You do realize that if we cut and run from Iraq it will create a vaccuum that terrorists will rush into fill resulting in a blood bath that makes our occupation there look tame in comparison? Plus, it will provide the Islamic terrorists with a nation to operate out of. "

Ahhh you mean like in Pakistan? Al Q has a safe area to operate out in Pakiostan and along the Afghanistan area. They are breaking out of the tribal areas and that is discrediting Musharraf who may have nukes. Bush did cut and run from Afghanistan by your criteria. Great now Osama has a chance at nukes while we are tied down in Iraq and threatening non nuclear Iran

Sophia
"but the problem is more the ethnic tensions between the Sunni's and Shites - not outside terrorists"

So al Qaeda doesn't have a presence there. And by the way some of the Shites there causing the violence are from neighboring Iran. So it's not just a civil war.

"We can do nothing more militarily - the solution must be diplomatic at this point."

This is a flip flop by the Democrats who first complained that there weren't enough troops, some even called for a re-instatement of the draft. But once more troops come in via the surge and victory start happening, they flop over to it's all about diplomacy.

"The rest of the world, especially, the middle east already doesn't trust us."

So, why cement the hatred even further?

How can there be a diplomatic solution with factions who are killing themselves, not to mention with al Qaeda and those Iranian Shites over there?


Hal Donahue, pt. 1
"See here is a lie plain and simple. There is no "cut and run" plan from Iraq. The blood bath has been taking place and in case you had not noticed the Biden plan is exactly what we are using in Iraq now."

It's not a lie. You mean we are using the Joe (the war is lost) Biden plan? Nonsense. We are employing the Commander in Chief's plan under advisement of General Patraeus.

"Nonsense and if you don't know it you should."

No it's not nonsense and you should know it. I already do. ; )

Hal Donahue, Pt. 2
"Our troops deserve more than buzz words and talking points and a large segment even a majority want out of Iraq."

I don't know what buzz words and talking points you are referring to. But, what they need is the people behind them and not to have the shame of cutting and running relegating their fight to ensure Iraq could be a free and sovereign nation was all for nothing because some liberal politicians and citizen's once again got squemish when it came to staying the course.

Sophia
"squelching of dissent at presidential functions - clearly un-american development."

Just like the left's squelching of the Minute Men at Columbia University, and squelching of David Horowitz is clearly an un-american development.

Look, I don't have a problem with dissent at presidential functions as long as it's peaceful and respectful. But, if the dissent becomes such a distraction that it interupts the function (via shouting and screaming over the speaker) then those doing that should be hauled out of there.

Hal Donahue
"Bush did cut and run from Afghanistan by your criteria."

More BS from you. In case you didn't know, we have troops in Afghanistan. They aren't all in Iraq. We've even got troops still in Kosovo. Where's the beloved left's time table for the exit strategy there?

[sound of crickets]

A good idea that I agree with
I heard this idea: why not build this president's library in mexico? I second the motion. Also, I certainly hope that the the two heroic border guards that I believe were wrongly imprisoned are set free with back pay and merit pay, along with medals for bravery.

Clay
"In case you didn't know, we have troops in Afghanistan. They aren't all in Iraq. We've even got troops still in Kosovo. Where's the beloved left's time table for the exit strategy there? "

We pulled out of Afghanistan as much as we could. We are responsible for destabilizing Pakistan. When Bush abandoned Afghanistan he created safe areas there and western Pakistan for Al Q. In Iraq we are executing Biden's plan my hope is that it can be triangulated by Patreause to keep Iraq whole and relatively peaceful. Robert may well have a point about Iraq but that must be later

But Clay you are so wrong the issue is what to do and quite frankly Pakistan scares the heck out of me this is the closest chance Osama has to nukes.

Sophia
"I noted the two who were escorted out of a town hall meeting merely because of the bumper stickers on their car!"

I'm with you on that case.

Sophia
"Kosovo however is not still a war zone. In fact I don't think one U.S. soldier was killed"

Why are we still over there? When are we going to pull out? What are the timelines?

"Thanks though for the nice conversation! I do appreciate some of the points you make..."

Likewise. I dont hate liberals. I just disagree with them.

"I don't want to leave Iraq a bloodbath...just don't want to stay indefinitely in a quagmire either with more deaths with no goal in site..."

I don't want to leave Iraq a bloodbath, nor do I want to stay indefinately in a quagmire. I think we should let the benefits of the surge guide us to a political solution.

"At least you talk to me!"

And always will. : )

Robert
"there is peace in Bosnia. and stability."

And there is that same chance in Iraq. Give it time.

It's kind of scary Robert, but I am finding a lot of agreement with you on your last few posts.

Hal Donahue
"When Bush abandoned Afghanistan he created safe areas there and western Pakistan for Al Q."

Excuse me. When was it that we abanonded Afghanistan. Our soldiers have been there since the start.

"In Iraq we are executing Biden's plan..."

More of your Biden's Plan lie. Biden isn't the Commander in Chief, George W. Bush is.

"But Clay you are so wrong the issue is what to do and quite frankly Pakistan scares the heck out of me this is the closest chance Osama has to nukes."

No I'm not wrong. You are, and you don't even spell out what it is you think we should do.

Clay
"Excuse me. When was it that we abanonded Afghanistan. Our soldiers have been there since the start."

BS we pulled troops out to invade Iraq and at that point we sent no more troops and slighted those there

"More of your Biden's Plan lie. Biden isn't the Commander in Chief, George W. Bush is."

Sadly for the country you are correct

"No I'm not wrong. You are, and you don't even spell out what it is you think we should do."

I am not commander in chief I would do a better job" This incompetent needs to go

Folks
Sorry I have just had a death notification. Be well and we shall take this up upon my return in a few days

Hal Donahue
"BS we pulled troops out to invade Iraq and at that point we sent no more troops and slighted those there"

So all the troops weren't removed from Afghanistan after all. Looks like the BS is coming from you.

"Sadly for the country you are correct"

So, it isn't Biden plan after all. I guess this ends that BS propaganda of yours.

"I am not commander in chief I would do a better job" This incompetent needs to go"

It's my understanding that you got passed up for Colonel due to you incompetence. So, how then, could you do a better job or even qualify to be Commander in Chief. Oh wait, Bill Clinton qualified. Maybe you could do as well as he did.

Hal Donahue
"Sorry I have just had a death notification. Be well and we shall take this up upon my return in a few days"

Although I might spar with you politically, you have my condolences.

Folks
Thank you it was my brother in law. I am off to Tampa in the AM. Be well and again thanks so much

Special for Clay:

"It's my understanding that you got passed up for Colonel due to you incompetence. So, how then, could you do a better job or even qualify to be Commander in Chief. Oh wait, Bill Clinton qualified. Maybe you could do as well as he did."

My you are a nasty little man. I will say one more time that getting passed over is not an insult and lots of good officers were passed over but I was never one of them. The mere fact you even bring it up at this time says volumes about you.

For Clay
My statement on banning the legal aliens was very specific, referring only to those who ACTIVELY (meaning, they know what they're doing) abet the entry of malfeasant aliens. You ran with the sentence disconnected from its context!

(I never thought I would need to give anyone a lesson in basic English grammar/semantics, especially since it was the subject I most hated through high school--grades 10-12)

The Dark Side Is Powerful
There is a powerful force at work, keeping our borders open. I do not understand who or how, but most of the leaders in both parties seem to be obeying whoever is bound and determined to keep the flow of invaders coming, even though many are bound to be terrorists. The tolerance movement, which is dismantling the value system which allowed this country to become the greatest country in history, is only the tip of the iceberg. What lies beneath the water, I believe is probably the Antichrist, and if we do not wake up and get America back "Under God", our children do not have much to look forward to. I gotta go throw up.

Devout Agnostic
"I know one of the biggest mistakes our country ever made was getting into THAT mess at THAT time. To bungle it so badly once that decision was made, MAY turn out to be our biggest mistake in history..."

Or it just may well be one history's high points.
Besides, liberals are usually touting how they are for human rights. Ousting that monster, Sadaam Hussein (or Sodamn Insane as some have jokingly called him) was a good thing.

"I do not hate your side either (except for the mean ones!) and greatly enjoy your well-reasoned and civil posts (even if I disagree more often than not).

My best to you and your family!"

Iqualamente! Same back atcha', in case you don't speak spanish. You don't have to agree with me. That's ok. I think the value in conversing is two fold. First, it helps each side learn to express why the believe in what they do. Second, occasionally, one learns something from the other viewpoint that might cause pause for reflection. And, lastly, there might be an opportunity to learn areas where both parties share in common.

Robert
"we dropped the ball in Afland, OBL escaped and is now muckracking in Pakistan..where we cant touch him"

First, there is no guarantee that if we had not engaged in Iraq and remained only in Afghanistan, that we would have captured Osama ben Ladin. Secondly, the war isn't only about him. Unless, of course you think that his capture would cause al Qaeda and all other Islamic terrorists to fold. ; )

Hal Donahue
"My you are a nasty little man. I will say one more time that getting passed over is not an insult and lots of good officers were passed over but I was never one of them. The mere fact you even bring it up at this time says volumes about you."

Funny. Everytime Gray Ghost appears and comments on this you slither out of the room. Maybe it's true? Anyway, despite your nasty calling me a "nasty little man" you still have my condolences.

This tactic of yours in response to my attempt to extend to you condolences in a time of grief cements for me in my mind that Gray Ghost is right about you. Therefore your hostile defensiveness and slithering out of the discussion.

This speaks volumes about you.

svpallava
"(I never thought I would need to give anyone a lesson in basic English grammar/semantics, especially since it was the subject I most hated through high school--grades 10-12)"

Despite this rude arrogance on your part that is unfounded, as it was pointed out earlier that your writing style is a unclear by onceamarine (I guess we can see why you didn't like English as a subject ; ), I rescind my offense at your unclear remark.