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Saturday, June 09, 2007
Diana West :: Townhall.com Columnist
The PC end of the English-speaking peoples?
by Diana West
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As Tony Blair prepares to leave 10 Downing St., "Muhammad" is the second-most popular name in Britain.

As George W. Bush is finally deserted by his long-suffering conservative base, "Jose" is not the second-most popular name in the United States. But Spanish, as yet unofficially, is America's second language.

Such developments represent two obviously different phenomena -- the impact of Muslims and Hispanics on societies once aptly summed up as English-speaking peoples. What is similar is the phenomena's transformative effect: Britain is increasingly defined by its accommodation of a tiny (3 percent) Islamic minority; the United States is increasingly defined by its accommodation of a large Hispanic minority (14.8 percent), some considerable number of whom are here illegally.

Is this a shocking turn of events? You bet.

Of course, to anyone who remembers the "Behead Those Who Insult Islam" posters displayed in London last year, the Islamization of Britain may seem long obvious. But that doesn't mean it isn't startling to see, quantified, in a government tally of baby names, a reliable indicator of the increasingly Muslim future of Britain.

Similarly, to anyone beset by bilingualism, in both business and the business of daily life, the Hispanization of America is currently a fact. But that doesn't mean there isn't an almost-tangible gut check, say, in reading about the extent to which 2008 American presidential candidates, Republicans and Democrats alike, are gearing up Spanish-speaking drives within their English-speaking campaigns to vie for Spanish-speaking voters.

Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., is the principled exception, believing, as he has said, that where a bilingual individual gains an advantage, a bilingual country suffers from irreparable fragmentation because the disappearance of a common language leads to the end of a common culture. If the U.S. Senate effectively legalizes 12 million to 20 million mostly Spanish-speaking illegal aliens -- a mainly Mexican bloc which, ironically, is anything but "diverse"-- the common language (English) and common culture (American) slip that much farther away.

It's inevitable. This Spanish-speaking demographic is simply too massive to assimilate -- even assuming the multicultural states of America were still in the assimilation business, which we're emphatically not.

And that's shocking, too. But more than shocking, this whole issue is depressing and distressing -- although I know I'm not supposed to say so.

Whenever anyone has the bad taste to point out markers of cultural transformation, the rest of us are supposed to play it very cool, expressing only the most noncommittal reaction, if any at all. We're not supposed to flinch, and we're certainly not supposed to lament such changes, or mourn what is being lost, or, heaven help us, do anything to stop or reverse them, such as demanding the enforcement of existing immigration laws that would both encourage the repatriation of illegal aliens and discourage more from coming.

The socially acceptable position, the one that qualifies as politically correct wisdom suitable to be shouted from rooftops (or written in The Wall Street Journal editorial page), is to accept phenomena such as the Islamization of Britain and the Hispanization of the United States as givens, as progress, as proof of one's own moral goodness. Anything less than regarding these wholly optional changes, ours to make or not, as national destiny -- international destiny? -- is denounced as malicious bigotry.

In this way our conception of ourselves as an existing culture -- open to modification and growth, yes, but not irreversible transformation -- has been grossly undermined. Not only are the traditions and characteristics (English-speaking? Non-Muslim?) of our societies now regarded as being retrograde embarrassments, we are also supposed to cheerfully maintain our societies in a perpetual state of ethnic and/or religious flux. The irony that goes unremarked is that the homogenous -- dare I say, nondiverse? -- nature of Islamic and Hispanic countries sending forth immigrants remains immutable. Which is why it won't matter much to the world if the United States ever becomes the 18th Spanish-speaking country in the Western Hemisphere, and if Britain ever becomes the 57th nation in the Organization of the Islamic Conference.

Except, that is, to those who would lament the passing of the English-speaking peoples. President Bush and Prime Minister Blair obviously don't belong to such a group, but who does? The group exists in shamed silence, having bought the PC line that cultural self-preservation -- Western self-preservation, that is--is nothing but an exercise in crude racism. But is it really? If we never hear any answer but "yes," it's time to get out the handkerchiefs and weep, silently.

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About The Author
Diana West is a contributing columnist for Townhall.com and author of the new book, The Death of the Grown-up: How America's Arrested Development Is Bringing Down Western Civilization.
 
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0r will there be a backlash?
It happened in FRANCE of all places - will there be a backlash and will we go back to the "Know Nothing" era of a century ago?

I could see this happening.

Future Work For Muhammad

It's simply this....the Muslims with their foothold in the UK will eventually screw the natives off the island! Any bets on when? 2050? 2075? 2099?

I close with one of my favorite telephone requests.

"Press One For English"

Diana writes:
The socially acceptable position, the one that qualifies as politically correct wisdom suitable to be shouted from rooftops (or written in The Wall Street Journal editorial page), is to accept phenomena such as the Islamization of Britain and the Hispanization of the United States as givens, as progress, as proof of one's own moral goodness.

------------------------------------------------
So who appointed the WSJ as the high priests of America anyway.

Ignore what the loud mouths think is "socially acceptable" and be the defiant American who does not allow any one to set the proper way to think.

Disgusts me to see Americans so easily influenced today by such evangelism of globalists.





Diana writes:

Anything less than regarding these wholly optional changes, ours to make or not, as national destiny -- international destiny? -- is denounced as malicious bigotry.


Like I care?

Fact is the impotent and empty accusations by self-righteous and arrogant asses should just **** you off.

Please don't call me a racist..
"I'll give you anything you want but please don't call me a racist." That attitude and the willingness on the part of others to play the race card is the doom of our culture. The more we fear being PC the more we concede our hard-won heritage.

Sorry for the typo
Should read, "Un-PC"

Pirate -- Will there be a backlash?
I have thought, hoped, and, yes, prayed that there would be a backlash to the extent that we the people might speak up and vote for common sense and self interest, but I am becoming increasing doubtful. It may be that we simply "mind our own business," be "politcally correct" and be careful not to offend anyone. In this mode, we quietly and peacefully hand over our nation and our culture to invaders who will establish their own culture and laws -- and enforce that culture and those laws on those of us who did not choose to defend ourselves when we had the means to do so.

PC
Racist, no; but your position is something similar, believing that your culture is intrinsically better than someone else's. The definition of American culture is changing, and while I support giving American English a prefered status (let's not forget that it is not equal to British English), the fact is that America was non-English-speaking first, and English speakers destroyed the cultures existing here while becoming the dominant culture in much the same way. They came here illegally from Britain (Britain thought it was legal, of course), committed genocide after genocide, and established themselves as the dominant culture on this part of the continent.

Following which, Americans illegally emigrated to Mexico and eventually appropriated half of it, making English the dominant language there and subjecting the Mexicans still there to various forms of oppression. That is the American heritage.

We may celebrate it; we may lament its eventual passing because it is ours and our way of life; however, we may not consider it superior. There is one fundamental ideal about this country, and it is that we should be free to have whatever religion and whatever culture we want, as individuals. You will NEVER make me like football or NASCAR; I will continue to enjoy Jewish liturgical music; I will continue to associate with the counterculture types that I like, and I will continue to date women more on the basis of intellectual curiosity than abundance of makeup. My culture is my own, and I want everyone to share it. I think it's the best culture, since it is my own. However, I also believe that you have the same right, and you have the responsibility to not disparage other cultures simply because they are not your own.

As a final example, do you wish you were in Dixie? The good old days of slavery, of the dream of the Confederacy? If you assent to a return of slavery, you will be viewed as incredibly racist, but there was a culture there, with its songs and modes, that was irrevocably destroyed with Emancipation. Blacks had their "devil" music, their villages, their schools, their movements, to compete with the whites. Your phenomenon -- preventing cultural shifts -- helped lead to the massive racism with which you are no doubt very familiar. Segregation was necessary to protect white culture, and into the 60's it was still considered a good idea. The problem is that, while maintaining culture is a worthwhile goal, it is imperative that we be fair to those who threaten the culture's supremacy, and remember that American culture is not better than Mexican culture for any reason other than that it is the one we know. If America becomes bilingual in general, the Mexicans will call it progress -- who are we to call it anything different?

Culture
On a more practical matter:

Nobody is inflicting culture and laws on anyone else, except the far-right religious fanatics who, very unconservatively insist on foisting their religion on everyone else, through teaching of creationism, rejection of birth control, insistence on homophobia, and so on. They are much more of a danger to our cosmopolitan respectful society than the Mexicans. And if Mexicans open Mexican restaurants and force traditional restaurants out of business, that's the free market and any true conservative will applaud it. Laws are another matter, and so long as the uneducated illegal immigrants don't vote, we'll be fine. And clearly they won't do that if they're illegal.

What America actually needs, and which nobody will admit, is much more legal immigration. But that's a topic for another night...

reality
North America has been an English-speaking continent for 350 years, at the most. There's no reason to claim this continent is some bastion of English speaking that must be preserved; if you want to get technical about it, we should all be speaking in American Indian tribal languages. Funny how English speakers are happy to foist their language on everyone, yet fiercely resist when people try to speak something other than English.

Re: mauro7inf
Your posts of 3:08a and 3:15a both sound good on a quick read and probably would sound even better if set to music, but there are holes in your arguments. For example:

1) It doesn’t matter whether our culture is “intrinsically better than someone else’s.” It is our culture in our nation. We like it. It has worked for a long time. Yes, I know we’ve modified it along the way, but we call that progress, and we want to keep it. It is uniquely ours.
2) True, the British came here and eventually dominated the eastern portion of what is now the United States. Some of my ancestors were among the first to arrive. More of my ancestors fought the British whereby the existing colonies became the United States. I was not there then nor was I in Tejas when the Americans defeated Mexico, leading to Texas eventually joining the U.S. Neither were you nor any of the rest of us. I do not accept responsibility for any bad behavior by those earlier generations toward the “native Americans,” the Mexicans, or the French of that day or for any bad behavior by those groups toward the British or toward the citizens of the U.S. Your playing of the guilt trip card just doesn’t work.
3) You state the “… fundamental ideal about this country, and it is that we should be free to have whatever religion and whatever culture we want …”. That’s my argument, too! Many of us want to keep the “American” culture we have developed and continue to develop. (Yes, I know that other nations exist in the Americas, but my friends in Belize, Columbia, Peru and elsewhere take no offense in our referring to ourselves as “American.” They tend to do it, too.)
4) It is not a matter of us considering our culture “superior.” It simply is a matter of us keeping the culture that we have developed and made our own – or it has made us its own.
5) Although your analysis of slavery in this country is very far from complete, a terrible war was fought among the citizens of this country in which slavery was abolished – long before either of us was born. Slavery was part of our culture and now it is not part of our culture. I don’t know anyone who is proposing that we return to slavery, or horse and buggy transportation for that matter. If that sounds frivolous, it is only to make the point that we do not live in the 1800s, but in a culture that has evolved through that time with certain attributes that have been retained from the inception of this nation.
6) Your comments about religious fundamentalists is pure hogwash. No one is forced to join any religious group, fundamentalists or otherwise. No one is forced to obey any dictates of such religious groups. They may irritate your liberal sensibilites as much as ultraliberal religious groups or “new age” groups might irritate the fundamentalists, but the only way either group can realize public power is through the political process, just as other special interest groups can do, albeit the fundamentalists must do it without Soros monetary support.
7) I doubt that you will understand the points that I have tried to make, but one should not let things such as your posting go without some comment.


PC& death of Judeo-Christian Democracy
I'm glad that I'll be dead before the end occurs, but I am deeply saddened that my grandchildren will be here to see the self inflicted death of the finest nation ever to grace this planet, all at the hands of their narcissistic grandparents' generation.

Rise of Islam, and some counterattacks
Western civilization seems to be in a period of decline - at least for the moment.

The forces in ascendancy appear to be fundamentalism and irrationality. The former, characteristic of most Muslims and some Christians, derives its power from the latter, which is characteristic of the baby boomers on down to the present. Because our education system has for a long time dropped any pretense of teaching logical or critical thinking, so most of us are unable to make rational comparisons between the merits of various cultures, religions, philosophies and leaders.

One fallacy that is very prevalent is that one cannot make judgements about the merits (or otherwise) of Islam or Christianity unless one is a scholar of the Koran or the Bible, and that one cannot judge the worth of a religion merely by observing the behavior of its adherents. Not true. Indeed I used to believe this, but I discovered I was simply brainwashed into believing it (and it didn't hurt that it gave me a nice righteous, tolerant, warm glow). If one thinks about it rationally, in fact one has every right to judge a religion by its followers - not necessarily individuals, but certainly as a whole. For example, the fact that 30% of young Muslims in the U.S. openly sympathize with jihad is pertinent to the judgment of Islam.

By this criterion, Islam must be condemned as a scourge, as should some Christian sects. The other major religions are not nearly so harmful, although faith is always inferior to reason. (Thanks to ancient Greeks, the Renaissance, and the Enlightenment for that lesson).

Unless those of us who are fortunate to live under rule of law, rather than king, priest or mullah, are willing to stand up to the evils of dogma, then we are doomed. As an atheist, I have no problem with people making up their own stories to believe in, or believing stories made up by others. However, muslims always and everywhere seek to impose their stone-age religion on those they invariably consider inferior. This is something which cannot be tolerated.

What are the Rational to do? Are we to let western civilization crumble? A critical point is rapidly approaching - Adolf Ahmadinejad almost has the A-bomb! Well, maybe it's not that dire. I cannot see America becoming a muslim nation. However, the longer we let things slide, the harder it will be to fix when the time comes. Remember the saying: pay me now or pay me more later.

We're already paying a lot now. Civil war in Iraq, you know. To withdraw, which is the logical thing to do, is unthinkable because it would be seen as total capitulation, and thereby embolden the enemy. It would be national humiliation for the Americans. However, is that humiliation such a bad thing? Maybe not; maybe it's like a tetanus injection: painful, but worth it in the long run. To understand why this is so, we have to consider the muslim mind, in particular the more radical mind: it is a mind wallowing in a pit of envy, resentment, and injured pride. Envy because they look at their own lot in life and their singular lack of cultural achievement (that can be attributed to their chosen faith) and compare it with the vast riches of the Western culture, where dissent and innovation are encouraged.

It should be clear from experience that muslims cannot be made to see reason and discard their encumbering religion. The more we try to help them, the more they hate us, since to accept help is to admit defeat. No, they must be left entirely to their own devices. We must studiously ignore them, except to buy their oil before the Chinese get it. We must help the Israelis to the best of our ability, since they are a small front of rationality in a very irrational region. Let them, the Iraqis, stew for as long as it takes. It's regrettable that many of them will perish, but really: propping them up is like feeding wild birds - you have to do it forever once you start.

I'd be a lot more sympathetic if they weren't still so damnably tribal. It does seem true that people get the govenment they deserve. (Hmmm - sounds like Americans have been a bit less deserving lately...)

Yes, the mighty US of A is going to feel hurt and humiliated. However, like Vietnam, the feeling will pass. It'll pass much quicker than the memories on the other side. After all, we "got" Saddam, didn't we? That'll teach them 2-bit dictators not to mess with Unka Sam!

Oh, and don't worry so much about more 9/11-type incidents. Sheesh! If you had had a decent mathematical/statistical education, then you would realize that you have more chance of dying a horrible death on your way down to WalMart than you would have of being killed by a terrorist (even if they issued a free green card to everyone in the world called Osama, no questions asked). Now sure, death by terrorism is much worse than getting crushed between the steering wheel and the tailgate, but there's a whole bunch of horrible modes of deceasement out there. Really, it's not worth worrying your risk-analysis impaired little brain over.

To those who imagine that, post Iraq retreat, we are going to be overrun with hordes of jihadists, flung far afield like manure hitting a whirling uranium centrifuge, I say this: relax. Ignore them. Attention is their oxygen.

If ignoring them doesn't make them desist, then try plan B: it's what we did with the Japanese who were here during WW-II. "Modern sensibilities" will decry this, but if it gets bad enough then the public will accept it. Like the Japanese, it is quite easy to identify jihadists. They typically attend mosques. If they don't attend mosques, then they usually know someone who does. Such attendees need to be made to give unequivocal repudiation of any violence, and to admit the primacy of the US laws over any of their religious laws, and at most the equality of their religion with any other religion. And, for delicious irony's sake, they will have to agree to pay an extra tax for the privilege of making noises from their minarets.

Sure, some of the baddies will tell porkies for Allah, but just remember that these guys have steel traps for brains, so they're bound to give the game away to a trained observer. Any hesitancy would result in a stay at King George's luxurious accommodation - maybe not too far from Paris. Hilton, that is.

Anyway, once the dust settles on that, maybe we can bring back Euclid to the classroom, and get back to what's great about the West...



mauro7inf
I spent a long time hanging around with people like you, and I eventually spotted the big weak point in their thinking: sports.

These were people who grew up on baseball, football, and basketball, and who were taught that those sports were superior to "foreign" sports like soccer and cricket.

They just cannot get over that kind of thinking. No matter how many soccer-loving immigrants come to America, they still demand that their newspapers push soccer to the back pages, if it's covered at all.

I'll accept your thinking when I see evidence that these people have changed their minds. When the New York Times (their favorite newspaper) treats soccer as the equal of our sports, I'll know that "progressives" have finally abandoned their hypocrisy.

We need to complain
How do minorities get their way? The complain, they whine like children, finally the pols etc give up and the rest of us suffer in silence or just bitchaboutit on the net.

Next time you hear "press 1 for English" take the time to tell the operater to note a complaint or go up the chain to a supervisor. Take enough time out of their day and they'll get so tired of it they'll change.
Same for pols, you see you people voting against your interests..send an email or call the office, SWAMP them, they need to see mail running 4/5 against the whiners, it just takes a moment.
Like this immigration fiasco, they KNOW we don't want this garbage, they KNOW it will be the downfall of the country..they don't GIVE a damn and we need to MAKE them care...write and tell them they are toast if they vote for this.

merry_go_boy
"Ron Paul is right. They hate us because we're over there. We've been meddling in the Middle East for over half a century, and now we're invading sovereign nations that have not threatened nor attacked the United States."

Ron Paul is wrong. If we weren't over there, they would probably still hate us.

1. The Danes aren't over there, but they are now hated.
2. Theo van Gogh wasn't over there, but he was murdered by them.
3. India isn't over there, but they are subject to attacks by al-Qaida.

Do I need to give any more examples here? They hate all non-Muslims, and they even hate each other.

It's really too bad that Ron Paul has adopted the ignorant leftist line.

Mark Steyn Wisdom
Mark Steyn sums it up best when discussing Canada's similarly misguided attempts at transformation and accomodation of immigrants.

"What worries me is when settled nations start to fetishize immigration to almost absurd degrees. In 1997, the government in Ottawa festooned the land with posters marking the 50th anniversary of Canadian citizenship and showing people of many lands holding hands around a globe - ie, Canada's idea of itself is as a great compilation of other people's hits rather than as a concept album in its own right. The idea that a nation expresses itself as merely an ongoing receiver of people from elsewhere, that it's Gate 57 at Heathrow writ large, no more or less than whoever happens to be standing in it, is very reductive".


JFP
"Do I need to give any more examples here? They hate all non-Muslims, and they even hate each other."

JFP, you're wrong here. Dr. Paul didn't just dream up what he said. He serves on the House Commission for Foreign Affairs and has actually read the intelligence. Something Rudy clearly has not done. Dr. Paul's comments are completely substantiated by the 911 Commission report, CIA intelligence, and heck, even Wolfowitz, the arch neocon himself. Were you aware of that?

Look folks, I realize it's hard to face the facts. But they nonetheless are the facts. Don't shoot the messenger; Dr. Paul is as patriotic as one gets and is trying his best to save our country.

Note: For you to call Ron Paul a leftist is beyond all kinds of hilarious. He is 100% Constitutional, and American, through and through. Thomas Jefferson would be proud.

---------------------------------

Please read this...
CLIFF’S NOTES FOR RUDY

"His [bin Laden’s] rhetoric selectively draws from multiple sources -- Islam, history, and the region's political and economic malaise. He also stresses grievances against the United States widely shared in the Muslim world. He inveighed against the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, the home of Islam's holiest sites. He spoke of the suffering of the Iraqi people as a result of sanctions imposed after the Gulf War..."-- 9/11 Commission Report, pages 48-49

"There are a lot of things that are different now [after the invasion of Iraq], and one that has gone by almost unnoticed -- but it's huge -- is that by complete mutual agreement between the US and the Saudi government we can now remove almost all of our forces from Saudi Arabia. Their presence there over the last 12 years has been a source of enormous difficulty for a friendly government. It's been a huge recruiting device for al-Qaeda. In fact if you look at bin Laden, one of his principle grievances was the presence of so- called crusader forces on the holy land, Mecca and Medina. I think just lifting that burden from the Saudis is itself going to open the door to other positive things."-- Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, Vanity Fair, May 2003

"One of the greatest dangers for Americans in deciding how to confront the Islamist threat lies in continuing to believe -- at the urging of senior U.S. leaders -- that Muslims hate and attack us for what we are and think, rather than for what we do. The Islamic world is not so offended by our democratic system of politics, guarantees of personal rights and civil liberties, and separation of church and state that it is willing to wage war against overwhelming odds in order to stop Americans from voting, speaking freely, and praying, or not, as they wish."-- Michael Scheuer (former head the CIA's bin Laden unit), Imperial Hubris, page 8

"We assume, moreover, that bin Laden and the Islamists hate us for our liberty, freedoms, and democracy -- not because they and many millions of Muslims believe U.S. foreign policy is an attack on Islam or because the U.S. military now has a ten-year record of smashing people and things in the Islamic world."-- Michael Scheuer (former head the CIA's bin Laden unit), Imperial Hubris, page 165

"The U.S. invasion of Iraq is Osama bin Laden's gift from America, one he has long and ardently desired, but never realistically expected."-- Michael Scheuer (former head the CIA's bin Laden unit), Imperial Hubris, page 213

"Although suicide terrorism is virtually always a response to foreign occupation, only some occupations lead to this result. Suicide terrorism is most likely when the occupying power's religion differs from the religion of the occupied, for three reasons. A conflict across a religious divide increases fears that the enemy will seek to transform the occupied society; makes demonization, and therefore killing, of enemy civilians easier; and makes it easier to use one's own religion to relabel suicides that would otherwise be taboo as martyrdom instead."-- Robert A. Pape, Dying to Win, page 22

"An attempt to transform Muslim societies through regime change is likely to dramatically increase the threat we face. The root cause of suicide terrorism is foreign occupation and the threat that foreign military presence poses to the local community's way of life. ... Even if our intentions are good, anti-American terrorism would likely grow, and grow rapidly."-- Robert A. Pape, Dying to Win, page 245

"The suicidal assassins of September 11, 2001 did not 'attack America,' as political leaders and news media in the United States have tried to maintain; they attacked American foreign policy. Employing the strategy of the weak, they killed innocent bystanders, whose innocence is, of course, no different from that of the civilians killed by American bombs in Iraq, Serbia, Afghanistan, and elsewhere."-- Chalmers Johnson, Blowback, page XV

"The term 'blowback,' which officials of the Central Intelligence Agency first invented for their own internal use, is starting to circulate among students of international relations. It refers to the unintended consequences of policies that were kept secret from the American people. What the daily press reports as the malign acts of 'terrorists' or 'drug lords' or 'rogue states' or 'illegal arms merchants' often turn out to be blowback from earlier American operations."-- Chalmers Johnson, Blowback, page 8

SOURCE of the Cliff’s Notes for Rudy is the Ron Paul 2008 Presidential Campaign Committee
http://kissofjudice.townhall.com/

Press conference at National Press Club with Ron Paul and Michael Scheuer (former Chief, CIA bin Laden Unit):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAt6Pf7jZjA

Interview after the press conference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A45NG8tOCQ

Secure our border! Enforce our laws!
Ok folks, so we stopped the amnesty, at least for now. Let's not stop. We need to keep on calling and writing them, telling them we want the fence built and our current immigration laws enforced!!

We simply must stop this illegal alien invasion of our country. For them to do otherwise, clearly shows they are not interested in providing for national security.

We must keep the pressure up! C'mon folks.

culture
Who was here before the Indians? They didn't just magically appear and possess the land. Their cultures were barbaric and brutal, not at all unlike Islamic cultures with beheadings, scalpings and various means of torture. They didn't just put people to death. They tortured people. Slavery was horrible, but America wasn't the only country that had slavery. Americans were enslaved in Islamic countries. The truth is we all sinners, but I'll take American culture with all its faults and failures over any other any day. I resent the gutless Mexicans not standing up to the corruption in their society and fighting for chance. Instead, they bring the corruption and lawlessness to our culture, sneaking across the border, digging up water lines, leaving debris on people's private property, getting false IDs, showing disdain for our way of life and culture. Try that in Mexico and see how far you get. Oh, those terrible Christians, forcing their way on the culture. What tremendous clout we have, stopping all abortions, putting homosexuals behind bars, stopping pornography and forcing every American to pray five times a day in the direction of Mecca. Don't some of you ever get tired of your reguritated, wornout rantings and ravings.

Liberty
I don't care who Ron Paul is getting his information from. It's wrong. And I provided several counter-examples to show that it's wrong. How many more do you need? I've got plenty more.

Aside from the first three I've already given:

4. A BBC reporter has been kidnapped in Gaza, despite the fact that the BBC is practically al-Jazeera on the Thames.
5. Buddhists in Thailand aren't doing anything in the Middle East, but they are now having to put up with beheadings by Muslims.
6. Although the French were against our going into Iraq, that didn't stop some Muslims from kidnapping a couple of their reporters.

I never said Ron Paul was a leftist. I just said it was too bad he adopted a leftist line.

Immigration and Language
When you say that we should control our borders because a Middle Eastern terrorist, physically resembling a Mexican gardener looking for work, could sneak across and blow us up, I am willing to listen to you. And when you say that an illegal immigrant, whom nobody has checked out as he enters the country, may bring in diseases not seen in the US for decades, I am willing to listen to you. But when you talk about immigrants (legal or illegal) befouling our language, I think that you don't know the facts.

First, language is ALWAYS changing. It changes not in some government bureau that defines it. It changes not in university classrooms. It changes in the mouths of the people who speak it, and what they speak is a hodgepodge record of people and places and circumstances that have gone before. Language is like a river that flows past us---we can step into it for a while but it just keeps on going: we can't stop it. There is no Standard American English under glass in the Smithsonian Institute in Washington.

When our (largely English) forefathers arrived on these shores in the 17th Century, they did not use any of the following words or phrases: spaghetti, muskrat, bagel, bonanza, pizza, soy sauce, poker, umbrella, stampede, buckaroo, kindergarten, play it close to the chest, nix, boss, delicatessen, zucchini, pita, coleslaw, schlep, schmuck, ghetto, didn't see hide nor hair of him, racoon, skunk, squash, moccasin. And the list could go on for hours.

All of these words and phrases came into American English either because our forefathers adopted Indian words for local things they had never seen before or because other immigrants (who spoke a language other than English) contributed their own words. Some came into mainstream English from frontiersmen and riverboat gamblers and the Spanish-speaking folks who lived in the Southwest (which, don't forget, which originally colonized by Spain---think of the California missions).

And even before that, English in England had absorbed words from all over the globe: ketchup comes from Malay or Chinese. Pajama is from Hindi. When the English developed a navy that sailed abroad, it brought home new words.

Before that? The Crusaders brought new words to English when they returned from the Middle East. One example is "checkmate", which is Persian meaning "Shah mat", the king is dead---because the Crusaders also brought back the game of chess.

Go back even farther: some of the words we use were left to us by the Romans who invaded England two thousand years ago---one example from Roman Latin is "mouse". And before that: the Celts who occupied the British Isles before the Romans got there left us some words too---one of them is "whiskey".

Language is a record of our history. It is like the trail of breadcrumbs left by Hansel and Gretel---it shows where we we have been.

So now we have a lot of Spanish-speaking immigrants and this scares some Americans into thinking we'll lose English to them. This isn't going to happen because when two languages come up against each other the language of the dominant people is always the winner. But we will get some new words from Spanish, just as we already got lasso and rodeo and buckaroo and ranch and stampede. Already my produce store offers mangos, papayas, jicamas, and avocados. The frozen food case of my supermarket offers empanadas just as it already offers pierogies (Polish) and blintzes (Jewish) and egg rolls (Chinese). Is that a bad thing? Sure makes meals more interesting.

Mauro
"They came here illegally from Britain"

What are you talking about Mauro. There was no 'United States of Native Americans' here, but scattered clans, speaking different languages and warring among themselves as often as not. There was no national sovereignty among the inhabitants. And believe me, they didn't just roll over and meekly give up the land. The English paid for it in blood.

"Following which, Americans illegally emigrated to Mexico and eventually appropriated half of it".

And how did the Mexicans gain possession of that land? By conquest.

Aw what the heck Mauro, let's just open the borders. Come one come all! Just one big happy grabfest!


mauro7inf

Of course you're correct. American culture is no better or worse than any other. That's why there are 12-20 million illegal American immigrants in Mexico.

No Problem with Immigration
There are inescapable facts that those who hide in their basements do not wish to recognize or accept, but remain fact nonetheless.

One is the underestimation of the illegal Mexican population. 12-20 million? More like 20-25 million. This I believe is Mexico’s estimate. The ‘State’ will never admit that until they shove the immigration bill down our throats.

The averaging of the color of our skin is inevitable. Long before the borders became an issue, Africans were marrying Caucasians. In case anyone failed to notice, there are five (more?) variations in shades of black and of white within human beings. Throw in a few Asians, Arabs and who knows what, and eventually you get a homogenized color for the majority. The color issue is a non-issue for me. I do wish the Latinos and Asians were taller.

The peoples we are discussing are ‘illegal’. What part of illegal does the ‘State’ fail to understand? They keep telling me that the issue is bigger than that. Bigger than illegal? Does that mean the needs of Agri-business override the Constitution and our laws? Who else is benefiting? The politicians themselves of course and they always come first.
They claim there are too many to deport. Baloney. Close the borders. Send them back when discovered. Their babies too. I am not a lawyer, but it does not seem reasonable that an illegal act could produce anything legal. If it can, throw out all the laws and we can strap on our six-guns again. It might take fifty years but you gotta take the first step sometimes.

When you let them in in droves, they congregate and find no need to learn nor speak English. Especially when the 'State' prints every thing 'official' in so many languages. If you had to speak English to eat, you would.

Lilly is wrong again
Lilly, you say not to worry about Spanish overtaking English, because English is the language of the dominant people. You seem to have missed the HUGE point that with this level of immigration, we will no longer BE the dominant people, thus our language is at risk. I get mad when I have to choose English on a phone line, but I get even madder when English is a "2" rather than a "1".I for one spent hours of my time faxing and calling Senators (not just my own) to fight the amnesty bill. We won this fight, thank God, but why are our elected officials so dead set on ignoring what we the people want in this regard? Self-interest. More money for politicians from big labor, and more votes kowtowing to Hispanics. The policitians don't even have the good sense to see that they are cutting their own necks because when the Hispanic vote block is big enough Senator Jones will be replaced by Senator Jimenez. And won't that be a sweet day! NOT.
Americans like concord2123 and mauro7inf have bought the multicultural line that we are not allowed to judge cultures relative to each other. Bull crap. My grandfather always said to me "Be particular". I was thinking how outmoded that advice is to young people today. Today our schools teach our children not to judge anyone. Have no standards. Accept everyone's idea of what's right for them. Hello, this is the road to anarchy. Concord2123, mauro, and their ilk are lucky that there are stil Americans like me who are willing to say that American culture is superior, it's superior to every other culture on earth. We are the shining city on the hill. There is such a thing as American exceptionalism, and this American is not going down without a fight.
BTW, I called Sen. Lindsay Graham in S.C. and left a comment on his comment line about his press conference in support of the amnesty bill where he said "Now we can tell the bigots to shut up." How dare he call Americans who prefer the rule of law, the founding prinicple of this nation, to what we have now, bigots. The Republicans in South Carolina need to get rid of his a**. He is a RINO, and needs to go, pronto. Ooops, I used some Spanish. He needs to go at once!

"Correct" is fundamentally WRONG!
The author is right on the problem. Our languages and cultures are under seige and losing the battles. The birth rate of english speaking peoples is less than replacement because our women are trained in feminiazi anti-family, anti-marriage life goals. Instead of choosing a career as mother and wife, young women choose PC "education" and a man's career. The population of English speaking people declines while we are invaded by uncontrolled immigration of foreigners who have large families and many children.

The US and the UK badly need to recapture our countries and toss the ivaders out. We are being invaded and captured just as surely as any Vandal hoard.

Bush and Blair have led policies that are aimed at destorying our countries. Our elected representatives work hard to destroy our people. They are the leaders of our enemies and are doing treason to our nations.

Bob

Catch more of Bob at http://bobstruth.blogspot.com

There is hope
now that the immigration bill is shelved. It re-affirms my faith in the power of the citizens to influence politicians over big business interests.

We now know who to vote out of office!! Act on it in 2008 even if it means losing more GOP seats.

With 75% of americans NOT favoring illegal aliens = 1/2 of deomocratic voters are on the right side of the issue too. Dems will take note of that.

This is a huge social experiment the government will fail with. The most knowledgable people (sociologists economists political scientists) are not even being heard. The facts are absolutely against amnesty, the results of which would be catostrophic immediately. With a 25%+ chicano voting block laws will change overnight not in a generation.

Anytime you have a 25% block voting as 1 you have the power. Pretty scary actually.

11h

English-speaking peoples?
Diane West limits that somehow to England and the US. How provincial!

English is the primary language in Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda, Australia (Australian English), the Bahamas, Barbados, Bermuda, Belize, the British Indian Ocean Territory, the British Virgin Islands, Canada (Canadian English), the Cayman Islands, Dominica, the Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, Grenada, Guernsey, Guyana, Ireland (Hiberno-English), Isle of Man, Jamaica (Jamaican English), Jersey, Montserrat, Nauru, New Zealand (New Zealand English), Pitcairn Islands, Saint Helena, Saint Lucia, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Singapore, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, Trinidad and Tobago, the Turks and Caicos Islands, the United Kingdom (various forms of British English), the U.S. Virgin Islands, the United States (various forms of American English), and Zimbabwe.

In many other countries, where English is not a first language, it is an official language; these countries include Cameroon, Fiji, the Federated States of Micronesia, Ghana, Gambia, India, Kiribati, Lesotho, Liberia, Kenya, Namibia, Nigeria, Malta, the Marshall Islands, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Rwanda, the Solomon Islands, Samoa, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Swaziland, Tanzania, Zambia, and Zimbabwe. It is also one of the 11 official languages that are given equal status in South Africa ("South African English"). English is also an important language in several former colonies or current dependent territories of the United Kingdom and the United States, such as in Hong Kong and Mauritius.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language

Read this book...
"A History of the English-Speaking Peoples since 1900" by Andrew Roberts.

Sorry, but there are superior ideas and behaviors. THAT's what so wrong about liberalism and PC thinking...that gosh, everyone is equal. Every man may be equal, but not every thing, every behavior, every action, government or culture.

And sure...things evolve..but if you study history, 99% of the good of this modern world came from the English-speaking people, including fighting Kaiser's and Hitler's and Japan's 'behavior.' As the author says, '..this century is one in which one liguistic world- grouping comprehensively triumphed over all others." Think about it...from Australia, England, Canada, Great Britain, Ireland..the best ideas, the best governments reside there. Language IS culture IS thought IS ideas IS behavior IS government.

The English-speaking peoples ARE, as Winston Churchill said, 'the last best hope of mankind.'

And dammit...THAT's why it's being attack. We, England, even a non-English-speaking France (with the last election) and America need to start recognizing not only the stakes at hand, but how wonderful we are and why. The idea that we are supposed to let millions and millions of third worlders into our home, just cuz they want to...is insanity.

But that's how evil works..it whispers untruths subtley into our collective ears telling us that it's not 'kind' or 'compassionate' to point out the differences in the mentality of a typical Mexican and a typical American. Corruption is their way of life in Mexico. The lack of assimlation is not just in language, but a total lack of appreciation for what this country stands for and a renunciation of what their country currently stands for.

Teddy Roosevelt got it...but that's before the disease of multiculturism and PC thinking invaded our shores. THIS is the great battle.

I'd like to see the
multiculti - PC crowd explain how the world would be a better place with western civilzation in general and America in particular. I, for one, am glad that it was white Europeans who settled America instead of Arab Muslims. I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have a Declaration of Independence or a Constitution guaranteeing freedom of assembly, the press, religion, etc.

OOPS
WITHOUT western civilization . . .

Marcus writes: June, 09, 2007 12:59 AM
I close with one of my favorite telephone requests.

"Press One For English"

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

"presione uno para el español, press 2 for English"

The new one for the NAU in '10


ENGLISH ONLY IN AMERICA
I blame our elected officials for the language problem. If we just stop reelecting every elected politician, maybe they will figure out that they need to listen to the people that voted for them. Term limits can be used by not voting for any current politician. There is absolutely no need to do all documents in two languages. If you can not read it in English, learn how to speak and read English.

RR

Easy now, everything will be ok :)
I read lately or heard the line "They used to be called Great Britain"...maybe it was Sean Hannity?

Anyhow...

All of these problems disappear or start to disappear when you rile up the silent majority as we conservatives have been called. I tend to not get knee jerk about it and remember reading about how dismal things felt when Carter was in office and how things changed when Reagan got the ball rolling. It's about inspiring leadership at the top and people and families just like all of us here willing to fight alongside.

Remember, it's a great day in America!
-Stephen
http://www.engagingprospects.com

death of english
My daughter works in an Italian bakery/deli. The other day, after making a sandwich for someone, she called out, "TO WHOM does this belong?"

The owner of the sandwich gave her a tip for using proper English. I'm so proud of her.

A couple of thoughts
Merry Said: Ron Paul is wrong. If we weren't over there, they would probably still hate us.

1. The Danes aren't over there, but they are now hated.
2. Theo van Gogh wasn't over there, but he was murdered by them.
3. India isn't over there, but they are subject to attacks by al-Qaida.

Do I need to give any more examples here? They hate all non-Muslims, and they even hate each other.

It's really too bad that Ron Paul has adopted the ignorant leftist line.

--------------------------------

First, unfortunately, this is the standard/company line espoused by the Left; essentially, the United States caused terrorist acts against us, and that we've only fanned the flames of fundamentalism due to our presence in the Middle East.

Second, Bill O'Reilly coined a very appropriate term for the Left: Secular Progressives. Diane's article basically consists of the notion that the "SP's" are clearly "superior" to the rest of us because they "embrace" anyone OTHER than white, English-speaking peoples. It's this elitist attitude that has hopped into bed with the Islamic fundamentalist: "we embrace you."

I deal with a couple of "SP" co-workers; one in particular clearly carries herself with an air of elitist, aristocracy. Her life is completely consumed with Political Correctness. She embodies what is wrong with this country: we are so driven by our fear of hurting feelings as well as unequivocable rights for all.

The Left is represented by groups such as the ACLU and CAIR. WHile seemingly acting as a mouthpiece for the liberties of ALL Americans, they actually only serve a few people; for example, evident by their steadfast defense in this case, of Guantanamo Bay Detainees.

It's this defense of the few that is destroying the fabric of this country. It's this blind obsession for including as many fringe groups as possible while alienating the majority.

http://rightisright.squarespace.com


Oh come on,,,
Folks go back to the late 1800's and early 1900's and read the same nonsense only the targets then were papists and eastern Europeans especially Jews. Yes that influx certainly hurt us didn't it? Please I urge you go online or the library and read the papers from back then. This is all a tempest in a teapot

mauro7inf
In the West, virtually everyone thinks it is immoral to kill someone else because of their religious beliefs. But that isn't true in the Muslim world, where that kind of behavior is taken for granted.

You say we shouldn't think of ourselves as superior because of those facts? OK, but where does that lead?

Now that a bunch of Muslims have migrated to Britain, what exactly happens when a Muslim kills someone for not being Muslim? If Britain condemns this act, they will be thinking of themselves, their laws, and their culture as superior. So, apparently, they shouldn't condemn such an act. But if they don't, then other Muslims will act in a similar way, until eventually everyone will either be forced to be Muslim or will have been killed.

Once that happens, then there won't be a British culture left to feel superior. It will all be Muslim. And given the track record of Muslims governing themselves, it is likely to be a culture that is extremely patriarchal and homophobic.

Is that what you want? And if you don't want it, then tell me if there is a way out of this?

As for me, I think Muslims who come here should be forced to acknowledge our cultural superiority. They themselves will be happier for it, if only because there will be less killing.

Native language and immigration
I wish first to commend Diana West for her excellent article that stimulated this debate and secondly give a thumbs up to "dumbasabrick" (in name only)for his insightful response and thirdly, why do we as a nation not employ the approach to immigration that Australia has embraced "Accept our culture or leave!"

Just cannot face reality can you
mauro7inf writes: Saturday, June, 09, 2007 3:08 AM
PC
Racist, no; but your position is something similar, believing that your culture is intrinsically better than someone else's. The definition of American culture is changing, and while I support giving American English a prefered status (let's not forget that it is not equal to British English), the fact is that America was non-English-speaking first, and English speakers destroyed the cultures existing here while becoming the dominant culture in much the same way. They came here illegally from Britain (Britain thought it was legal, of course), committed genocide after genocide, and established themselves as the dominant culture on this part of the continent
-----------------------------------------------\\

That is so full of nonsense it gags me to read any more than the above of your twisting words to support lies.


Yes some cultures are MUCH more SUPERIOR than others.

Its why the reast of the world is trying to come HERE.

If the Mexicans were so much better, then why do even they want to come here?

Cause their own culture is that of peons to the "higher" class seperated by one thing, money.

Americans have established the ONE and ONLY Nation in the world that the common man is not born to serve the money class(even if they now do so)
Many of us would rather die than succomb to the low class peon attitude of lessor cultures, just as is found in Mexico.

Slave mentality is as anti-American as it gets, and no man is my king or my ruler.

Law and Order with every man having equal protection of that law is what makes America superior to any nation on this planet.

You do not think so?

I dare you to put your money where your mouth is and go live in any other culture and judge it for yourself.

Sicking to fall to this garbage about diversity meaning give your country away to lessor cultures, ha ha.


Something is awfully wrong when so many people will pick up and move to a foreign nation and leave family and home for another one.

The Mexicans prove by their own DEEDS of coming here they hold America to be BETTER than Mexcio themselves.
I will fight any and all for the America I love, the one established by white Anglo Saxon Judeo/Christian Values.

Don't like it cause it was white men?
Too bad, that is the way it is anyway.

The people who cannot admit that immutable truth are the racists themselves.

Tell ya something else, any fault that can be found in America can be multiplied 100 times worse in any other nation on the earth.

Best system, most wise and honarable men on this planet were those white Judeo/Christians that ESTABLISHED the United States of America.

I really do not care who does not like this historical fact, you will never change it.




Duncan Hunter
Tancredo talks a good fight. Duncan Hunter has done more than any one to stop the 'alien hordes' from increasing. He opposed the Amnesty Law of 1986, engendered the San Diego-Tijuana Double Fence which greatly diminished the smuggling and crime rates in the San Diego area. Hunter authored the Security Fence Act, which mandated 854 miles of double fence across the Southern Borders of Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. Bush signed it on October 26, 2006. So far, only 2-15 miles are built. We have a Rogue President, answerable only to 'bushgewalt'. He does not obey the law, and encourages other to be selective in which laws they shall obey. So, America is in an Ultimate Crunch Time. Duncan Hunter is the only candidate of broad capacity to serve in the office of President. So I support him. Now, having been raised in Southern California, he does speak Spanish. But he does not seek to impose bi-lingualism on others. I believe Ms. West could support him, and hope she does.

Hal, you're close
You're close to right, but for three points: (1) the relative numbers of illegal aliens now are vastly higher than then; (2) it was the goal of immigrants then to assimilate, while nothing could be farther from the truth for the illegals and others of their mindset now; and (3) after the huge wave of Eastern and Southern Europeans came, immigration quotas were reduced and actively enforced.

Stop the flow now, and give the country a chance to swallow what it's chewing, or it will choke. Pass and enforce laws against employers and landlords, and attrition will reduce the number of illegals: as the benefits of remaining dry up, they will repatriate voluntarily. Stop accommodating other languages and cultures in law, and those here legally will assimilate, just as they did back then. Will this "split families" of illegals with children born here? Only if the parents are heartless enough to abandon their children when they, the parents, go home. But go home they must.

And just for the record, our culture *is* manifestly superior in nearly every way to theirs, whoever "they" might be. Why? Because I, born here of immigrant parents, say so. Case closed. Yes, that's right: it's all a matter of opinion, and since that opinion is backed by so many tangible facts, it is very widely held. If this were not so, the traffic at our borders would be going both ways.

And not enough whining liberal celebrities, who threatened (i.e., promised) to withhold their glorified presence from our midst should the president be re-elected, have left to make up for the inflow. Not nearly enough.

The National Motto

.....E Pluribus Unum ...Out of many, one ...

.....I think it was in the seventies that I first recognized diversity and multi-culturalism as a danger to our unique American culture ...

.....That was when we began to see the results of the immigration changes crafted by Ted Kennedy go into effect ...

.....where previously we had given preferences to needed skills ...educational achievement and the ability to assimilate easily ...we shifted to quotas of ... unskilled ...undereducated ...political refugees with vast cultural differences ...

.....we went from a "melting" pot to a "multi-ethnic" stew ...and if we protested the PC Liberals shut us up with charges of being racist ...

.....If being proud of my ethnic Western Culture Caucasian roots and the unique American Culture in which I was raised makes me a racist ...then I will wear the banner proudly ...I will put a bumper sticker on my car and wear a T-shirt that says ..."American Racist and proud of it" .....COLOSSUS

A Distinct American Culture
Obviously there are some posts here by people who hate America. This is always been puzzling to me because America happens to be the greatest nation the world has ever known based on any objective standard. Our nation has freed more people and enriched the world more so than any other country has come close to doing. It is a pity that the children of those who sacrificed so much to save the world from nazi slavery have abandoned institutions, customs, and traditions for their own selfish and narcicistic desires. It is they, who were given so much from a loving nation that have sought to tear that same nation down with invention of political correctness (a cornerstone of cultural marxism).
There is a reason why the United States has accomplished more in 230 years than countries that have existed for milenia. It is because of freedom and capitolism (oh yeah, and our judeo-christian heritage). A society can not have freedom without capitolism, and no nation could accomplish what we have without GOD. As such, the commielib, socialist baby-boomers have done every thing they can to limit capitolism while at the same time attempting to eliminate GOD from everything public, under the doctrine that you can not have GOD any where near any one who might be the slightest bit offended. Doesn't matter that the offendee in question may be a blithering idiot, we must remove any mention of GOD so he/she can go about life blissfully unoffended. It also doesn't matter that it offends the living hell out of the rest of us who correctly view such activity as nonsensical and detrimental to our culture. The combination of hispanic ivaders, islamo-facsists and American communists posing as democrats/liberals, is a dangerous coalition that the rest of us are going to have to beat back brutally if we are to survive.

Hal Donahue
Yes, there were lots of immigrants in the past, and they were not thought well of, but they didn't hurt us.

The reason, though, that they didn't hurt us is because they were forced to assimilate. Our schools and media strongly encouraged the idea that America was great, that our system was the best, etc.

Today, it is exactly the opposite. Our media and schools talk as though we are the worst society ever in human history. Immigrants are not encouraged to assimilate or to adopt our values. And as I stated in an earlier post, where is this going to lead?

Consider freedom of religion. Are we going to retain freedom of religion, or are we going to allow Muslims to kill whoever they like who doesn't agree with them? And if Muslims can do this, why not the rest of us?

Talent Scout
Well said. People like mauro7 not only believe that American culture is no better than any others, but they take it one step further. The lefties actually believe, through some warped reasoning, that American culture is actually much worse than the rest of the world. I fail to understand why these people are so unhappy living here, and yet don't have the guts to just move to a country where they would be much happier.

Talent Scout
Well said. People like mauro7 not only believe that American culture is no better than any others, but they take it one step further. The lefties actually believe, through some warped reasoning, that American culture is actually much worse than the rest of the world. I fail to understand why these people are so unhappy living here, and yet don't have the guts to just move to a country where they would be much happier.

Hound Dog
What is "American Culture"? Did it change at all since 1776? Should it still change?

Dave Stone
"Hey Hal, those early immigrants assimilated, learned English and adapted America ways so that in the end America remained unified. " Simply not true growing up when I was sent to buy a chaicken or loaf of bread in little Italy (they had the best of both) I had to speak a bit of Italian because many of the shop keepers never learned. I had native born friends whose primary language was Polish. You are correct they assimulated but no where near as fast as you claim.

There you go name calling again but I will admit "kranky old gadfly" is at least getting a bit creative LOL. And I hear during WWII they locked up or isolated many Italians kliving on the east coast for the very same reasons. I hear tales of the German Bund also. OH and let's not forget the mafia. This there are killers among us was and I do not doubt still valid for a tiny fraction of the immigrant population. We are fighting terrorists they are not new and they are not special.


mauro7inf writes: June, 09, 2007 3:08 AM

Racist, no; but your position is something similar, believing that your culture is intrinsically better than someone else's. The definition of American culture is changing, … the fact is that America was non-English-speaking first, and English speakers destroyed the cultures existing here while becoming the dominant culture in much the same way. They came here illegally from Britain (Britain thought it was legal, of course), committed genocide after genocide, and established themselves as the dominant culture on this part of the continent.

DESJOCKEY RESPONDS

First of all, all cultures are not equal. Therefore our culture might be superior to a beheading culture or cannibal culture. By your own admission European colonization destroyed the Indian host culture of North AmeriKa. But your claim that we came here illegally is false. The Indians by and large practiced what you preach and accepted us initially with open arms. Naturally when our colonization got into full swing and they became the victims, all hell broke loose as will happen again with your open arms and all cultures are equal nonsense. Don’t you folks learn from history? Therefore one needs to determine if England culture with common law is better than Sharia law. In the US we might need to decide if we want to look like Mexico in 20 years as being the better dominant culture.

mauro7inf writes: Following which, Americans illegally emigrated to Mexico and eventually appropriated half of it, making English the dominant language there and subjecting the Mexicans still there to various forms of oppression. That is the American heritage.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

TX seceded from Mexico as a separate nation and later asked to join the US. The other land had a handful of Mexican descendants the migrated north into North AmeriKan indian lands, however no national borders were known to exist and some Mexican troops moved to CA to try to remove AmeriKans that were settling, Mexico making a claim that a handful of their folks had migrated their first. I think your claim may be more MECHa or La Raza talking points, than history. However, assuming you were correct, your point is that colonization destroys the culture. Therefore one question remains, are we wise to destroy the US culture in favor of the Mexican culture. If Mexican culture is so good then I guess AmeriKans need to sneak over the border.

mauro7inf writes: We may celebrate it; we may lament its eventual passing because it is ours and our way of life; however, we may not consider it superior. There is one fundamental ideal about this country, and it is that we should be free to have whatever religion and whatever culture we want, as individuals. My culture is my own, and I want everyone to share it. I think it's the best culture, since it is my own. However, I also believe that you have the same right, and you have the responsibility to not disparage other cultures simply because they are not your own.

DESKJOCKERY RESPONDS

This is UN psychobabble one world culture no borders talking points. “My culture is my own”, “There is one fundamental ideal”. So we now have 300M cultures in the US. I like this one, you should adopt it, “everybody has their own truth”.

Duh, you just said all cultures are equal and you are happy to let ours die. Then claim that you want your private culture to flourish (probably La Raza), unless another “equal” culture becomes dominant then you’d want that one, maybe Muslim or Mexican Marxism. Let me explain something. The UN’s objective is to destabilize all cultures around the world and replace it with their Utopian PC culture for the new one world giver-ment.

mauro7inf writes: ….. do you wish you were in Dixie? The good old days of slavery, of the dream of the Confederacy? …..Your phenomenon -- preventing cultural shifts -- helped lead to the massive racism ….. Segregation was necessary to protect white culture, and into the 60's it was still considered a good idea. The problem is that, while maintaining culture is a worthwhile goal, it is imperative that we be fair to those who threaten the culture's supremacy, and remember that American culture is not better than Mexican culture for any reason other than that it is the one we know. If America becomes bilingual in general, the Mexicans will call it progress -- who are we to call it anything different?

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

Well you show your UN Utopian insanity with the statement Mexican Culture is equal to AmeriKan culture. I wonder why Dog the bounty hunter is trying to stay out of the Mexican courts in favor of US courts, seeing they are equal. Try to enjoy property rights in Mexico and see how equal things are. Limited property rights has stifled the prosperity of that nation. Marxism is not equal.

I sure wish I was here in the days of Dixie. That was truly the superior culture rooted in the founding father’s principles of limited giver-ment.

Thomas Sowell has said, he doesn’t condone slavery but it sure was a blessing for him in that a farmer would embark on a concept that has existed since Adam and Eve and risk all he had as collateral on a bank loan to buy his ancestors out of execution in Africa. You see you make up false alternatives. Those Blacks faced two alternatives, be wiped out by the conquering tribe (which seems to be more prevalent today in Africa seeing slave sales are probably down to less than 750,000 on the continent) or that some of the conquered be spared death because they had a market value. Do you think the 300,000 that are sold annually in Khartoum prefer their situation or those in Darfur subject to genocide? That was the option, pragmatic, not nice, and that option continues today in Darfur and Khartoum. If you would go to the bank today, borrow $100K and put your cars, house and investment up for collateral, spend $25K to build a crude house in your back yard, go to Darfur and offer to a war lord $75k to buy a man, his wife and child bring them home, feed them, cloth them, pay medical and have him mow your lawn, work your fields, she clean your house, run to the store (need to get them horses also and a barn), and they can’t read or write and have zero skills such that after all the cost you’d be lucky if you could make interest payments on the loan, would you be immoral or immoral if you didn't let 3 people just die in Darfur. If after you got them home, Abraham Bush decided to say, they are free, and you lost your house, cars, investments and farm land because you could no longer support your debt, would Abraham Bush have been a savior?

You must look at the facts and not make up false romantic history of evil AmeriKans victimizing Blacks. The reason Blacks fought on the side of the South, just as the Cherokees did, is because they understood it to be a better culture than the collectivist of the North that they feared more than slavery. The war was over collectivist imposing economic terror on the South and race wasn’t entered into the mix until Lincoln needed to make it a moral war because my Yankee brothers didn’t care about killing Southerners over tariffs and commerce and therefore fought with no conviction and wouldn't enlist. Lincoln basically did a G W Bush, going from weapons of mass destruction that wasn’t working to some moral high ground of we must free the Iraqis from the evil Muslim culture and give them an AmeriKan type democracy where women aren’t cattle, etc. I assume you also condone Abraham Bush freeing the slaves of Saddam and freeing the women from the culture and we keep fighting until the giver-ment can protect those freedoms.

Some Blacks today celebrate the confederacy and belong to confederate re-enactment organizations in honor of their forefathers that fought for the ideal of the South.

Segregation in the South is somewhat a revision of history from folks watching too many shows like Roots. I shared that insane view until I moved South, lived next to Blacks, talked to a few slaves many years ago and realized that to the victor goes the spoils. Lincoln and the collectivist of the North got to rewrite history. Across the street lives the Jones who were slaves for the Rea family. Mr. Rea freed Mr. Jones, now deceased and was 104 when I met him, and gave them huge acreage that they have since lived off by selling off 20 acres periodically for over a century. They have a parcel up for sale right now, but please don't buy it, I have UN Marxist neighbors alreadly. Mr. Jones descendents claim they are Rea descendents and speak of Mr. Rea as having been the second coming. Now they don’t speak of illicit sex which never took place, but that their love and memory of the Rea history is their grateful history. In fact the most cruel slave owner in AmeriKa lived over the border in SC and was a Black who sold the labor of slaves, and never freed a slave. There were 3,000 Black slave owners, but we don't condemn them for slavery because only White men are evil in our culture. Whites often freed good slaves like the Jones who they deemed had repaid the loan. Now slave and master generally had respect for each other, if not a love built from dependence on each other.

Now what you are endorsing is exactly what we found take place in the South. The Blacks and Whites basically got along, but after emancipation, the North occupied the South, had our Constitutions rewritten, destroyed any notion of property rights and law. But the pernicious thing done was giver-ments began to make laws that violated the culture. For example Black going to the back of the bus, or not being served in a restaurant was not the will of the culture but edict of law. In my city of Charlotte, NC we have a landmark historic restaurant still in business were blacks and whites have always eaten together and still do. Initially blacks sat anywhere they pleased on a bus until giver-ment started passing laws they must sit in the back. A guy owning a restaurant in certain cities wanted to sell to anybody who’d help him make the mortgage payment, but if he sold to Blacks he understood the giver-ment would not renew his business license. We didn’t have a culture problem with Blacks we had a giver-ment problem.

Sowell points out that Blacks were making far better progress prior to the Civil Rights Act and that that act actually put the brakes on what was going on naturally.

And this is the tactic with Ted Kennedy and his 40 year agenda to colonize the US with Mexicans. We are seeing a backlash in the streets, based on bad giver-ment that intentionally wants MS-13 and criminals coming over the border to change our culture for Ted's private agenda. The big stink this week was the amendment that failed to not let hardened criminals get citizenship . We got along extremely well with Mexicans until Teddy and the Ford foundation started the UN colonization agenda.

The problem with Utopian fantasies is that they have unintended consequences.

Hal Donahue
"American Culture" is the belief that there is something bigger than yourself. That hard work and self reliance has the double benefit of producing for one's self and for the whole of society. That freedom is the way GOD intended for mankind, yet has been consistently thwarted by evil men. That individuals have the right granted by GOD to determine their own futures being limited only by ability and perserverence. That we have a rule of law and an accountable government. That we eat barbeque and drink beer on the fourth of July, and that we go to church on Easter Sunday. And that we respect other's political opinions. Of coarse, on this last point, the left has completely abandoned this principle, choosing rather to destroy their political opponents personally rather than to prevail on the power of their ideas. Then again, they never liked our culture to begin with.

Dave Stone
"... They bring a mindset that tells them they are patrons, always under the boot or the handout of some strongman. They riot and portest in the streets demanding our taxpayer benefits." for strong man say pope and for welfare say jobs and you have the 19/20th century outrage against Italians and before them Irish.

"Hal, it's going to be much fun when the house next to you is inhabited by five families threatenting you to move out so their relatives can have your place. You'll be the first to bellyache because someone didn't do anything about it." seldom bellyache and seldom run. Happy to sell to them for the right price though

"And yes, I know you're a veteran, a coal miner and what ever other thing seems to give you the right to an opinion and no one else, so don't bother listing your references here. I and everyone else will speak and you will listen!"
Never a coal miner but from coalmining region. I do listen and am happy to because I learn if nothing else how you think. Hey, and you get to chat with a real live liberal democrat


HankRearden
"And that we respect other's political opinions. Of coarse, on this last point, the left has completely abandoned this principle, choosing rather to destroy their political opponents personally rather than to prevail on the power of their ideas. Then again, they never liked our culture to begin with." You almost had me right up until this. The left is not the home of hate mongers like limbaugh, hannity, o'rielly, rove, falwell, robertson... you folks invented the concept. This is THE concept that built conservative thought look up Atwater.

US Culture
mauro7if objects to (I gather) Christian or Jew fundamentalists "forcing their beliefs on others.) He'll just love living under Muslim rule- they say loud and clear you will submit or die! Not normally what you hear from Christians or Jews.
Everyone- read Mark Steyn's "America Alone"- he points out the illegals and Muslims are outbreeding others all over the world and they-not the USSR- will bury us. Demographics are destroying our civilization.

WHERE'S THE FENCE? keep it going- it's a great phrase.

Hal Donahue
"What is "American Culture"? Did it change at all since 1776? Should it still change?"

If you don't know what American culture is, then you are worse off than I first thought.

Actually, American culture has not fundamentally changed since 1776. For over 200 years, we have been guided by the fine piece of work called the Constitution. Yes, we made a few changes for the better, such as abolishing slavery, because the Constitution says all men are created equal. But, in the overall scheme of things, Americans have been fairly satisfied for over 200 years, with the exception of a few malcontents. Christianity is still the most practiced religion. English is still the national language. We have freedom of speech, freedom of the press, democratic elections, free enterprise, etc. The US epitomizes freedom. Maybe you and your lefty buddies prefer a more centralized, totalitarian system. If immigrants like what they see here, they are welcome to join us. If they don't think they are capable or not willing to assimilate, they can stay home.

HankRearden
Thank you.

mauro7inf writes: June, 09, 2007 3:15 AM
Nobody is inflicting culture and laws on anyone else, except the far-right religious fanatics who, very unconservatively insist on foisting their religion on everyone else, through teaching of creationism, rejection of birth control, insistence on homophobia, and so on. They are much more of a danger to our cosmopolitan respectful society than the Mexicans. And if Mexicans open Mexican restaurants and force traditional restaurants out of business, that's the free market and any true conservative will applaud it. Laws are another matter, and so long as the uneducated illegal immigrants don't vote, we'll be fine. And clearly they won't do that if they're illegal.

What America actually needs, and which nobody will admit, is much more legal immigration. But that's a topic for another night...

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

Ah, now we get to the crux of the discussion. The Christians, not just the evil white males are the real problem.

Can you name one giver-ment k-12 indoctrination camp that teaches creationism or doesn't support homos? Can you find me one law passed by our congress that approved abortion or condemned homos? Actually the majority of AmeriKan Christians had been pro abortion. 92% of AmeriKans claim to believe in God and those pro-abortion candidates are getting their votes. Catholic church folks had been voting 65% for abortion candidates although that number is now coming down to 50%. And this swing has taken place in just the last 10 years. Today the stats show that most AmeriKans are against any type of abortion.

Your argument is we should be compassionate to your Mexican countrymen and give them special entitlements, but we should murder innocent kids that folks would love to adopt, rather than be forced to spend $25K-$50K to go to foreign lands and adopt.

Nobody, but absolutely nobody has suggested a Mexican restaurant should not drive out other restaurants. We have enjoyed Mexican restaurants for a couple hundred years. What we are concerned about is the Mexican restaurant on South Blvd, where the patron killed somebody driving drunk. The cop decided, just for fun (our cheif of police policy is don't ask don't know), to go to the restaurant and state he is not representing the department because that would be wrong to do and inquire why his patron was drunk it being against the law for White owned restaurants, Mexicans of course above the law. The cop asked him if he has any illegal customers, he just leaving one at the seen of the accident. The owner said that was a stupid question, if he got rid of his illegal customers he’d have no customers. The cop then asked why this guy was driving drunk. The owner said, I let my regulars drink as much as they please, regardless of your laws. He is still in business, because he is Mexican. If he was white the ABC would have closed him that night and he be in jail today for letting a drunk drive in violation of state law.

You see the Mexican culture and the rule of law starting from their president on down to law enforcement are all corrupt Marxist. In Mexico you don’t fear the criminal you fear law enforcement. Yup, I can’t wait to merge with Mexico and enjoy the benefits of a superior culture in MeximeriKa.

I don’t know where your city is, but illegal Mexicans can vote in my city. In fact we caught 400 claiming to all live in a 10x10 office of some social organization, that were bused to the polls and voted, how many times I don’t know because we also have laws not to interfere with voting in more than one precinct. When taken to the courts and because those 400 votes would change the outcome of the election, the legislature immediately passed a law making it legal and the case immediately was dismissed the votes stand and two left wing radicals that have destroyed out city held their office.

Here is how the deal works. They come up from Mexico in about 5 buses a day and land in my city at one particular corner. The get off the bus and they sell the drugs they have brought up to get cash, the drug buyers knowing to go to that corner throughout the day to wait for the buses. The cops in my city are told to let Mexicans do whatever they please don’t interfere. They take the cash and get a cab to get signed up for benefits etc. Then the next day they and others who intend to move to other states take a train to the capital to get a driver's license, no questions asked, although they tightened up a bit and you need to bring a utility bill or cabel TV bill you steel out of somebodies mail box the first night to prove you belong here. With that license they now are legal and can vote. Golly, it is just like my grandparents did when they came here from Europe 100 years ago. I love Ted Kennedy and your vision of Ciudad de México on the Potomac.

Hal Donahue
The left does a pretty job on the hate front themselves, but I won't go into it. But, how typical of people of your political persuasion to use such tactics when you have no substantive things to say. Bigots, racist, hate mongers, every kind of phobes and isms.

America is SUPERIOR
In every aspect of life for the common man.

I will gladly compare the Foundations of America and our history to any other hell hole on earth called a nation.

Including all of Europe, Asia, and South America along with the far east.

Take Europe, the most foul and rotten systems known to mankind have origninated from that twisted elitist part of the world.
(and America has idiots wanting to be like them)

Everything from Royalty to Church and State.

Colonization, Nazism, Communism, Facism and this "diversity" BS!


I want Americans to STAND UP and tell the world they are th problem, NOT America.
America, the one above all the rest.
( I hope that ****** some of you liberals off and you fall to the ground spitting and foaming at the mouth)

Faith in God made America.
One nation Under God is our Foundation and cannot be overthrown.

Liberty does NOT exist where men are over others and not God.

I hold to the self evident truths as Jefferson wrote them and they still drown out the falsehoods that deny all RIGHTS come from GOD and not men.


Hal Donahue
I know who Atwater is and he was a damned fine safety for the broncos for a lot of years but I don't see how that's relavent to this discussion.
And thank you for proving my point. You did not attempt to convince anybody with the power of your ideas, rather you simply slapped the word 'hatemonger' onto a bunch of people with whom you disaggree. Of coarse, 'hatemonger' means any one who disaggrees with you. In point of fact, it IS on the left where hatrid thrives.
The blind, seething, leaping, screaming hatrid and rage by liberals at conservatives in general has been on parade ever since 2000 (when Bush beat Gore). As I've said before, conservatives disaggree with the liberals ideas, while liberals disaggree with the conservatives existence. But hey, I don't hate ya, brother, just everything you stand for.

concord2123 writes: June, 09, 2007 3:31

reality
….. There's no reason to claim this continent is some bastion of English speaking that must be preserved; if you want to get technical about it, we should all be speaking in American Indian tribal languages. Funny how English speakers are happy to foist their language on everyone, yet fiercely resist when people try to speak something other than English.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

reality check?

If it was wrong for the AmeriKans to foist English on the Indians (which I don’t think they did) that welcomed us with open borders, why do you now claim it is right for the Mexicans to illegally colonize AmeriKa to foist Spanish on the Indians and the evil Whites from Europe?

Hound Dog
My pleasure.

Gabby
“We need to outlaw Spanish on our commercial products.”

Actually, having Spanish on everything has had positive, unintended consequences. I truly believe the amnesty bill would have passed without much public outcry, just as it did in 1986, if it wasn’t for Spanish plastered over everything. While political junkies such as TH posters know the issues, the average Joe and Jane have no clue beyond American Idol and Oprah. But, they hear it every time they make a phone call. They see it at Home Depot, at the grocery store, on billboards, on TV, on the radio, at the driver license office, at the ballot box, in the schools, in the hospitals, on every product they buy, etc. People are frustrated that a group of immigrants, legal and illegal, are given special treatment. People don’t have to lose a job or see their wages decline to know there is a real problem. We are reminded everyday.

In Mexifornia
The second most popular name here is Jose, which is right behind Juan in first place.

Gabby
On guest workers, we shouldn't have any. First of all, guest workers will never leave once they are here, no matter what Kennedy says. Either you come here to become full-fledge citizens or you stay home. We should close the borders and let the market work itself out. After closing the borders for a period, and wages have a chance to get back to the market rates, then we can determine how many additional workers, if any, businesses are short. That is what should dictate the number of "legal" immigrants we admit each year.

Songo
I know you were not addressing me but you are such a glittering jewel of colossal ignorance that I am compelled to reply. In the first place, the Native Americans were savages who were at war with themselves before any Europeans arrived. Had the far more technologically sophisticated settlers not conquered them, somebody else eventually would have. The difference is, they would no longer exist anywhere, and they would certainly not live on reservations or own casinos.
Secondly, the idea that neighboring countries are incapable of producing their own prosperity and that somehow it is our fault assinine on two fronts. Those countries could be plenty prosperous if they adopt freedom and capitolism as their model. That is what separates them from us. And you best believe we can keep them out, we are the U.S., buddy. We have a pretty good track record of achieving all kinds of unimaginable things, it is part of our heritage. You wouldn't know anything about that though, because you hate this county. Mucho stupido, way.

Estados Unidos de America

Contrary to many anti-Republicans and Conservative-haters think (I cannot call them liberals, because liberalism stands for freedom), President Bush is doing something unique in American politics: The making of the United States a country with not cultural identity.

What is the culture identity of America: The values based on the Judeo-Christian philosophy. Do not get confused with the Christian or Hebrew theology. I am talking about those values that gave born to the country we are living in. once the identity of American as a Judeo-Christian nation is gone, nothing will be left, just a cultural vacuum which will be filled with anything: Islam culture, fragmented Latino cultures, and totalitarian ideologues like socialism, communism and Islam.


Whether Bush and other illegal alien-advocates know or not, the truth of the matter is that by allowing illegal aliens stay here and not be deported, America is going through a social-political transformation: the shift from a first-world English speaking country to a third-world Spanish speaking country.

What are the ramifications of this social upheaval? There are very critical in a short and long term. The continuos influx of uneducated illegal aliens from Latin countries will not only affect economically the lives of all Americans (democrats, republicans, and others), but will make of American a nation with not identity at all. The false idea that “America” is a country of immigrants as justification to accept anybody not matter his condition is nonsense and suicidal.

The modern immigrants are coming with an open disregard of American laws and are encouraged to do that and remain in America by groups who think that America is racist and xenophobic and the only way to destroy this “racist” country is by allowing uneducated illegal aliens to flow the offices of social service to applied for economical, medical and social benefits. In other words the bankrupt of the state.

Socially, the scenario is even worst. The daily and continuos indoctrination in colleges and universities that Western culture based in a Judeo-Christian teaching (not communism or socialism) is not better than the uncivilized tribes of Papua Guinea is suicidal. Students are taught that there is not reason to be proud of a “racist” nation as America.

The truth is that Western civilization is the best of all civilizations, and America is the product of it. Western civilization is based in the influence of the Judeo-Christian philosophy in society. This is where true liberalism was born, from Christianity. Liberalism is not the one that is spouse by democrats or socialism. Actually, socialism, communism and Nazism, which are all the same, opposed liberalism.

However, now the source of freedom, justice and opportunity is being destroyed systematically by forces that hate Christianity, Judaism, and America. Their justification? “Multiculturalism” and “diversity.” That is the BIG LIE that was sold to America. For these totalitarian groups, “multiculturalism” and “diversity” mean to hate America, the military, and Christianity. What a concept of diversity.

Critics and cynics cite the all worn out issues of “racism” and “enslavement” in the colonies, and English “invasion” to this continent. Regarding to the first issue, anti-American advocates forget deliberately that large numbers of Africans were enslaved in the Islamic countries of the Middle East and North Africa. Not only blacks were enslaved by also Muslims enslaved white Europeans. In other hands, English settlers did not invade any country, not even broke any laws. English settlers came to a vast region of the continent that was inhabited and had not laws about immigration to be violated. Actually, it was a blessing the coming of pilgrims to America. The cynics say that English killed natives, however, they omit the fact that even before the colonization of America, natives fought themselves to death for land and dominion, but cynics are just obsessed with hating America that are blind to these facts. Cynics live in the fantasy Disney version of Pocahontas.

While slavery was common to ALL civilizations, as well as to peoples considered uncivilized, only one civilization developed a moral revulsion against it, and it was not the Islamic culture, it was Western civilization. And not only, it came from Christians, what the anti-American establishment call “religious conservatives.” Of course these facts are too “political correct” and not taught in colleges and universities.

At this pace, we will wake up one day to find out that our President speaks Spanish and the official language is Spanish. Remember insensitivity and intolerance only works against white English republican Christians, but not for minorities, democrats Spanish speaking. Welcome to the Estados Unidos de America



WRONG
mauro7inf promotes a common misconception, one that MUST be fought tooth-and-nail:
"but your position is something similar, believing that your culture is intrinsically better than someone else's."

followed by...

"...the fact is that America was non-English-speaking first, and English speakers destroyed the cultures existing here while becoming the dominant culture in much the same way."
Proves to me that the anglo-saxon culture was superior.

And you are wrong about "America" being non-Englsh-speaking first. America, which automatically refers to The United States of America, was ALWAYS English-speaking. There was no ocean-to-ocean nation here when the European colonists came, just tribes of bronze-age aborigines.

"They came here illegally from Britain (Britain thought it was legal, of course), committed genocide after genocide, and established themselves as the dominant culture on this part of the continent."

And whose laws did they break in coming here? The aboriginal tribes had immigration laws? Really?

"Genocide" was committed because those primitive aboriginal cultures, typical of such throwback cultures, could not adapt to the superior culture of the Anglo-Saxons, and opposed them. Assuming, as mauro7inf appears to do, that our objection to the imposition of demonstrably inferior cultures on ourselves is comparable to the colonization of America, does he suggest that the aboriginal tribes should not have tried to preserve their cultures? If it was okay for them to fight our superior culture becoming dominant, why isn't it okay for us to fight these inferior cultures becoming dominant?

Point to me the state of the Latin American space program. Show me the Mexican equivalent to U.S. research facilities. Show me the wonder of Mexican and Latin American government. You can't. American culture, founded upon anglo-saxon values, has done miraculous things. Meanwhile, Mexico and Latin America have wallowed in poverty and corruption... much like those aboriginal cultures centuries ago.

Lily, you are mistaken; language does not always change; Latin and French were the languages of government, religion and the court for centuries. They are well-structured and were stylized for centuries, changing little. But English was not of interest to the powers that be, and changed into the difficult language it is today because peasants were like Humpty-dumpty; when they used a word, it meant whatever they wanted it to mean. Centuries later, grammarians began structuring English and it became more of a viable language.
I no more approve of the degeneration of English into "ebonics" than I approve it's replacement by Spanish. For me, "Contact", "disrespect" and several other words will NEVER be verbs.

I *like* anglo-saxon culture. Is this a crime? Is it immoral? Then when a globe-trekker from the U.S. says s/he likes Latin American or East European culture, is that immoral or a crime? Why can't I like my culture, and keep it dominant in my native land? The invasion from the southern border is NOT diversifying the nation, it's homogenizing it, and not as a WASPish culture, but as a failed hispanic culture.

According to Ann Coulter's most recent editorial, in 1960, whites (meaning european-americans in PC speak) made up 90% of the country. Today they're becoming a minority. Look where the country was in 1960, look what we'd done, where we were going... and look at us today. Look at our priorities and values *then*, and our priorities nd values *today*.
Then I dare you to dismiss it as "racism".



Gabby
"'Fundie's' who force their ideas down
other peoples throats (allegedly) are usually hated by seculars who want to force THEIR ideas down other peoples throats."

Just a minor point, it's not secularists fundies, religious conservatives are at odds with, it's religious liberals. It's all about who Social(ist) Gospel is forced down the other's throats. And none of that has much to do with conservative or liberal politics.

The rest of what you say I agree with.

Hispanic vs Latino
Ms.West and all other Americans!A Hispanic person is one who celebrates the European Culture,and a LATINO person is one who celebrates the Latin Culture!Please make these facts apart of your intellectual arsenal!

"LILLY THE LOONY LIB"
Can anyone explain “Lilly the Loony Lib”? She constantly posts her rants on Conservative blogs, but never responds when criticized for her glaring inconsistencies, fallacies and occasional lies. At best she is viewed as just another crackpot Lib and ignored or laughed at. At worst, she’s loathed for the liar she often is. So what I can’t understand is why she continues to seek out such abuse. Perhaps she’s a masochist. Perhaps she’s delusional, thinking she’ll actually convince someone. This might be possible IF she were: (1) Reasonably Intelligent. (2) Reasonably Rational; submitting well thought out arguments rather than distortions and lies. (3) And willing to respond to comments and criticism in a rational, intelligent manner. But she never does. She employs what’s known as “Hit & Run” tactics. She drops her B.S. bombs and then runs rather than respond to criticism. But this in itself says something about “Lilly”. She never fires back a response because she has NO AMMUNITION. In her recent rant, she goes off on another absurd tangent: “Language”, while ignoring the real issue, which is that most illegal Hispanics, and many Legal ones, DONT WANT TO ASSIMILATE. They want to re-create Mexico here in the U.S.

Since “Lilly the Loony Lib” obviously isn’t going to go away, perhaps the best recourse is to place her on PERMANENT IGNORE. Or to put it another way: Refuse to engage in a battle of wits with the MENTALLY DISARMED.....LMAO

killer
Latin = language of Rome and the Catholic Church.

Hispanic = person of mixed-race aboriginal American and Spanish ancestry, usually residing somewhere south of the U.S. southern border.

I cannot make myself forget that Spain was ruled for centuries by Moslems.

While we're on definitions, there is no "European Culture". Europe has many cultures, most all of which are being displaced by Islamic culture.

BTW... in the middle of the 19th century, about the same time as the Trail of Tears, 1.5 million Irish were starved to death within a 3 year period; some sealed themselves into their homes so the world would not see them starve; some lay naked and supine along the roads. I believe the population of Ireland at the time was about 4 million. At the time, 15 million pounds sterling worth of foodstuffs (potatoes) were leaving the country.
A genocide as great as anything even thought to be perpetrated upon any individual American aboriginal tribe, yet we never hear an end to the wailing over the latter, and almost never a peep about the former.

The insane pathology of white men is that they only regard other whites as truly 'equal', and therefore can justify any horror perpetrated upon them, but in order to continue to feel superior to non-whites, will never end weeping for every slight, large, small or imagined, perpetrated upon non-whites.

lilly writes: June, 09, 2007 8:45 AM

...language is ALWAYS changing. ….

All of these words and phrases came into American English either because our forefathers adopted Indian words for local things they had never seen before or because other immigrants (who spoke a language other than English) contributed their own words. …. folks who lived in the Southwest (which, don't forget, which originally colonized by Spain---think of the California missions).

….So now we have a lot of Spanish-speaking immigrants and this scares some Americans into thinking we'll lose English to them. This isn't going to happen because when two languages come up against each other the language of the dominant people is always the winner. ….

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

Lilly, I was pleasantly surprised by this lucid discourse. However, in your own words you point out the problem.

Some adoption of words to identify new things does not make a language. Can you imagine the French, with that beautiful language, saying, Yo, u be da man? Even Spanish is a much nicer language to the ear than English.

The issue is not introduction of words to define new things it is the culture possessed in the nuances and stringing words together. It is the thinking process within the boundaries and rules of the language that carries forth the culture.

The problem you point out is one of eradicating culture and in particular your reference to Indian language and culture. The Indians when colonized by the Europeans lost their language and therefore their culture that can only be expressed with the language built around it.

The question, like you point out is should the Indians or even the few Spanish missions set up in CA, loose their culture because they are colonized by a dominant culture. When one looks a population trends, we don’t need any Mexican immigration and they will still become the dominant culture in the near future.

The problem and backlash is because this is not by natural process of selection and rejection but by the willful force of our DC masters to advance their private agenda.

"presione uno para el español, press 2 for English"

How much you wanna bet
Mauro7inf doesn't live in Jersey City.

Incredible
The English speaking peoples saved the world from the tyranny of Imperial Japan and Nazism 60 years ago and now lack the spine to even defend their own homelands. We are so cowed by the P.C. liberal guilt disease that has been spread since the sixties that we are committing national suicide rather than risk having anyone not like us.

mauro7inf the facts do not support ANY
of your contentions.

where to begin!
slavery was not brought to what is now north america by the europeans, slavery was alive and well amongst the indigineous population, the indians didnt need to learn of it from us.
slavery has been a fact of life throughout history, and those ( the europeans) who are most grieveously attacked for it were, in fact, the ones who put an end to it.

you post:

They came here illegally from Britain (Britain thought it was legal, of course), committed genocide after genocide, and established themselves as the dominant culture on this part of the continent.



genocide
n. The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.
If genocide was the intent, or even a by product of the european settlement of north america, I assure you that it would have occured.
To use the term "genocide" in reference to a population group whose numbers are, at this date, greater than they ever were before in that peoples history is beyond stupidity, but more accurately described as PC disinformation ( ie LIES)

you post:
Following which, Americans illegally emigrated to Mexico and eventually appropriated half of it, making English the dominant language there and subjecting the Mexicans still there to various forms of oppression. That is the American heritage.

If your reference is to to texas, please note that after over 300 years of failed colonization by the spanish fewer than 7000 spanish inhabited the area we now call texas. Europeans of many nationalities were invited to settle texas in the first quarter of the 19th century, through land grants, sale of cheap lands, welcomed and encouraged to do what the spanish were unable to do, create a civilization in a vast wasteland.
To encourage this immigration, parties were promised representative govt, including independent statehood as a province of Mexico, after certain population levels had been reached. As we all know the Mexican constitution of 1824 was torn up by the dictaor Santa Anna,who through a military coup installed himself as absolute ruler of all Mexico, and reneged on his promise of seperate, representative statehood for texas, bringing about the Texas revolution of 1835.

if your reference is to the areas now known as New Mexico, Arizona and California.

again, despite centuries of Spanish rule, fewer than 3000 spanish/mexicans lived inthis region prior to their being purchased by the united states. ( in other words, more mexicans are entering the United States illegally every MONTH, than occupied the territory once held by Mexico in the 300 years prior to it becoming territory of the United States)

Of course european culture was and is superior to the other regions of the earth, were it not the case, then the european influence wouldnt be dominant one still, under siege though it may be.
It would also be safe to say that anglo/europeans would be fleeing to africa and mexico rather than the other way around.
Unfortunately the advances european culture made and make may also be leading the their downfall, throgh misguided concepts of multi-culturalism and moral relativism.

The mexican influx into the united states now reminds Me of nothing so much as what occured in the former Union of South Africa in the 1960's and 70's, when blacks from all across the continent fled the oppressive and murderous rule of the tinpot dictators in the former colonies to the north, for the jobs and security of the white ruled south. in 20 short years, We saw what happened.
When Margrate Sanger founded "planned parenthood" her goal was one of euginics, to limit the population of blacks and other "less desirable groups"( to use her words). While blacks are disproportionatly represented in abortion statistics to an obscene extreme, I dont believe she anticipated the death of 30 million in 30 years. The very children aborted since Roe V Wade are the ones We miss today, the ones who would be keeping our popultion growth at a health rate without the rampant immigration from the south.

CBP
...the will of the masses is divided by far-reaching distortions and the mass mind is corrupted by a knowledge worse than ignorance because it is false.
Ely Culbertson

songo, hank reardon is absolutely right
but he failed to point out one critical mistake in your post " the US through sheer force of numbers. And the fact is, we can't stop them, "
We CAN stop them, the question is will we garner the WILL to stop them. I pray everyday for leadership to appear with the will and the nerve to address the real problems we, as a nation, face.

It was the unique genius of the the northern european immigrants that created this land of plenty on the north american continent, and if it is to remain that land of plenty, it will be that same unique genius that enables it to.
Hard facts, but facts none the less.


CBP


...the will of the masses is divided by far-reaching distortions and the mass mind is corrupted by a knowledge worse than ignorance because it is false.
Ely Culbertson

18wheeler
Your point (cf. "The Looney Lib") is excellent! I enjoy TH because it is an excellent venue for learning (for thoughtful reflection). The best method of judging an idea is to test it, present it for criticisms and attempt to rebut those with fact and logic (ref: Aristotle's The Organon, another of our hideous "Western" conceits. What sort of fool would propose that the Lyceum was any better than a madrassa?).

Keep the ideas commin'!

Hal Donahue writes: June, 09, 2007 11:05


Folks go back to the late 1800's and early 1900's and read the same nonsense only the targets then were papists and eastern Europeans especially Jews. Yes that influx certainly hurt us didn't it? Please I urge you go online or the library and read the papers from back then. This is all a tempest in a teapot


DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS.

It was a disaster therefore we all but shut down immigration for 45 years. for the first 15 years of 1900 the average persons annual income went up $.33/yr. Our culture was under attack. So they cranked down the immigration until your mentor Teddy Kennedy decided we should flood the country with uneducated laborers.

The European Jews via the Institute of Social Research residing at the Frankfurt University, brought us much of our Marxism, sexual revolution and hatred of capitalism and the evil WASP, when forced to come to Columbia University to avoid Hitler and get on the taxpayer dole. They then went into print or media in NYC, went to Hollywierd, or back to Frankfurt. Other that that evil on AmeriKa they are a wonderful people. Sadly they still vote monolithic for the missed Marxism of Germany.

And they were just like my family that came in 1805 and were happy to be socialist in NYC voting for more entitlements.





WSJ Shocker on Globalization
WSJ Shocker on Globalization

“Globalization will put as many as 40 million American jobs at risk of being shipped out of the country in the next decade or two.” This comes from a very unusual source: the Wall Street Journal — one of the strongest and most consistent advocates of unchecked globalization. Yet a recent article entitled “Pain From Free Trade Spurs Second Thoughts” chronicles the mounting economic repercussions for US workers seems to represent a major crack in their globalization armor.

It concludes not by calling for any trade restrictions, but rather for more help for American workers. To their credit, they call for more than just token retraining programs, which is positive. The star of the article, an economist, is a respected Democratic consultant and apparently the presidential candidates are listening.

WSJ: For decades, Alan S. Blinder — Princeton University economist, former Federal Reserve Board vice chairman perennial adviser to Democratic presidential candidates — argued, along with most economists, that free trade enriches the U.S. and its trading partners, despite the harm it does to some workers…Yet today Mr. Blinder has changed his message — helping lead a growing band of economists and policy makers who say the downsides of trade in today’s economy are deeper than they once realized.

Mr. Blinder…remains an implacable opponent of tariffs and trade barriers. But now he is saying loudly that a new industrial revolution — communication technology that allows services to be delivered electronically from afar — will put as many as 40 million American jobs at risk of being shipped out of the country in the next decade or two. That’s more than double the total of workers employed in manufacturing today. The job insecurity those workers face today is “only the tip of a very big iceberg,” Mr. Blinder says.

Read the rest of this entry »

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/wsj-shocker-on-globalization


Great Labor Shortage Lie!
BusinessWeek Debunks the “Great Labor Shortage Lie”

BusinessWeek: A global labor crunch, already being felt by some employers, appears to have intensified in recent months. That’s in spite of widely publicized layoffs, including Citigroup’s plans to shed as many as 15,000 staffers… Corporations are determined to keep labor costs under control, so they’re reaching deeper into their bag of tricks…Some are lowering their standards for new hires or moving operations to virgin territories other outsourcers haven’t discovered…

Economists, of course, will tell you there’s no such thing as a labor shortage. From a worker’s viewpoint, many so-called shortages could quickly be solved if employers were to offer more money. And worldwide, millions of people still can’t find jobs. The strongest evidence that there’s no general shortage today is that overall worker pay has barely outpaced inflation.

SirotaBlog: Politicians…couch their bought-off immigration positions in humane terms - pretending that they care about the plight of impoverished Mexicans. Yet, most of these same politicians aggressively supported NAFTA, which deliberately drove 19 million Mexicans into poverty.

And even more to the point: advocating for so-called “guest worker” programs that provide a legal framework for American employers to exploit Mexican workers without giving those Mexican workers basic labor/human rights afforded to domestic workers is simply not a humane position either for Mexicans or Americans - it’s a position that creates a 21st Century brand of inhumane economic slavery for Mexicans, and embraces the ongoing efforts to drive American wages into the ground.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/businessweek-debunks-the-%e2%80%9cgreat-labor-shortage-lie%e2%80%9d

Hal Donahue writes: June, 09, 2007 12:32
What is "American Culture"? Did it change at all since 1776? Should it still change?

…..And I hear during WWII they locked up or isolated many Italians kliving on the east coast for the very same reasons. I hear tales of the German Bund also. OH and let's not forget the mafia. This there are killers among us was and I do not doubt still valid for a tiny fraction of the immigrant population. We are fighting terrorists they are not new and they are not special.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

Hal, AmeriKan culture in 1776 was best stated by one of our founders, John Jay, in what was then known as the Federalist Papers that outlined the intent of the new nation, Heading: Concerning Dangers from Foreign Force and Influence.

"Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people -- a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs..."

Regarding Italians, I’m half Italian and half Irish, and I offer an apology to all for the failure of my ancestors to uphold the principles of AmeriKa, but rather used the voting box to tear the country down. I believe it was mostly ignorance of tis culture and opportunity for easy prey to pick over. Ah, the wonderful days of Al Smith. I remember my dad explaining to me the virtues of progressive taxes and how we were able to live off the guy who was a little richer than us who then lived off the guy a little richer than he. I was ten years old trying to figure out why my apparently honest dad wanted somebody else’s money and this crazy concept of each guy feeding off the one above him. Golly so many of us have come to AmeriKa, that this is the dominant belief today. My dad was way ahead of his time. That is why we need to start learning about Mexican history and culture so we will be familiar with our new nation.

Anyway, the reason we didn’t lock up the Italians is that the Japanese had already taken all the bunks at the country club.

The Mafia looks like Mother Teresa compared to MS-13. I remember the night my grandfather came home with pee on the front of his pants. He was a longshoremen working those ships that came into NY and the Mafia marched him to the end of the pier to shoot him late one night. But one of the guys saw his face better when they got under the light at the end of the pier and said hey this is the wrong guy. Yup, they still run the docks and trades in NY. You can’t get a window put in, a ship unloaded or a truck of cement unless you deal with the mob. And man, we give good service, but don’t mess with us.

To assume that imposed social change by radical immigration such as my ancestors was a positive influence, clearly one has to say no. And my ancestors tried to become AmeriKan, the present lot want nothing to do with AmeriKa except send money home, commit crime and slip back and forth over the border so they don’t have to be executed or do jail time, or plan the next terrorist attack on some NJ military base, or what was it this past week? Most of the Mexican AmeriKans don't want this group coming here.

This radical immigration of only wanting the most uneducated, criminal elements could only have been dreamed up by your mentor Teddy Kennedy to advance his agenda. Loved it this week when they shot down the amendment that convicted criminals shouldn't be given amnesty. That says it all.

Commies' sins
People like Mauro7inf and Songo want to lay a guilt trip on the rest of us for what English-speaking people of the past have done, but is there anything that they did that can compare to what leftists did in Cambodia in the 1970s?

Us Terible English Speakers
Mauro7inf and Songo, why are your posts in English?

To baseballdoc
**You recognize multiculturalism and multilingualism as a threat to our unique American culture? What culture would that be, exactly, that isn't already a result of multiculturalism and multilingualism? Please see my earlier post to this thread on American English, which is a hash of other languages, which (in any case) British English already was before it arrived on these shores to be mixed up with Indian words and words spoken by immigrants from everywhere.

As for multiculturalism, look around your supermarket. Sauerkraut, coleslaw, bagels, doughnuts, pita, all forms of pasta, most beers, most wines, strudel, many forms of spirits, pastrami and corned beef, rye bread, egg rolls, mangos, avocados, potato salad, yogurt---these didn't arrive on Plymouth Rock with English colonists, but came later with IMMIGRANTS. Are you going to argue that an immigrant contribution that came here in 1785 or 1842 or 1926 is good but one arriving in 2007 is bad? Do you refuse to eat anything but meat and mead, the diet of our English ancestors? Do you refuse to listen to rumba or samba or cha-cha-cha music and dance only the English country dances of 1685?

Get out your Yellow Pages and look up "churches". You will see the reflection of many who did not arrive on Plymouth Rock---the Baptists, for example. Many who brought the Baptist church here came from Germany and Switzerland, as IMMIGRANTS. And Catholics? The state of Maryland was established as a specific refuge for Catholics, as Pennsylvania was for Quakers.

Baseballdoc, we are a pluralistic society. We always have been.

And, folks, this argument is NOT about illegal immigration---it is about all immigration because if you having tantrums about hearing a phone message that says "press 1 for Spanish" that isn't about illegals, it is about Spanish and the arrival of Spanish-speaking people.

More On The Terrible English Speakers
Spell check on last post. (Terrible)

Owww the terrible English speakers still havn't strapped bombs on ourselves and blown up groups of illegal alien day laborers in front of home depot. We don't blow up busses filled with housekeepers or shoot up trucks of gardeners driving to work.

I havn't heard of any churches being attacked when they are full of Hispanic speaking worshippers.

I wonder who was instrumental in the defeat of nazi Germany or imperial Japan, it certainly wasn't the English speakers. No it must have been somebody else. When the murder camps were liberated and the survivors freed who was that nurtured and fed them. Who made it possible that displaced persons could make new lives for themselves, many of them legally immigrated to America. It wasn't the English speakers who did that.

Pres Reagan said in some other language, "Mr. Gorbachav, tear down this wall!"

In my neighborhood (barrio) it is the English speakers who dump trash (pickup trucks full) in the alley behind my house. It's my English speaking neighbors that open their car, truck, and suv doors and kick out all the empty fast food bags, soda and beer cans, I thinnkk.

When people get life saving drugs all over the world, they got them from non-english speaking countries. Gosh those life saving drugs weren't even developed in English speaking countries.

Yes I'm absolutely convinced that the world would be a better place if it wasn't for those English speakers. The sooner we get rid of ourselves the better. Long live the barbaric cultures of this world!


Like English? Fund Education.
I understand and agree with the argument held by many that amnesty to illegal hispanic immigrants is unfair to those who are waiting in long lines to receive legal visas to enter this country. (Mitt Romney was particularly eloquent on this point in the latest New Hampshire debate.)

Diana West's argument, though, appears baseless. She doesn't offer a whole lot of support for her underlying argument that 'hispanic people are bad for America' which leads the reader to believe that Ms. West just thinks hispanic people are fundamentally bad; that their culture is intrinsically inferior in that it couldn't possibly contribute anything positive to the melting pot that already is American culture.

The lack of any concise explanation on Ms. West's part smacks of eugenics.

If the English language is indeed "under assault", it is only because a certain political party keeps trying to defund our public education system! *cough* You know who you are.

MAURO7INF
A culture that can send a man to the moon is superior to a culture that mutilates women's genitals as a rite of passage. Cut the cultural equivilancy crap of the PC multicultural mantra. All cultures are NOT EQUAL!

America in Spanish
This is a letter in Spanish in the "new" America:

Hoy es un nuevo dia en America. Gracias al Presidente Bush y McCain, Kennedy y demas democratas cuyo culpabilidad es mas grande que su amor a esta nacion, nosotros mas de 20 millones (no 12 millones)de "mojados" o como nos llaman los de la izquierda, "indocumentados," ahora somos ciudadanos Americanos con los mismos derechos que cualquier "huero," "gringo, o "negro americano." Disculpen si Americanos de raza negra se ofenden por llamarlos "negros," pero en Latino america no existe "politica correcta" y por lo tanto todos se llaman por el sobrenombre que quieren.

Bien y ahora que somos Americanos a la fuerza. Ustedes deben de aprender a hablar en Español sino podemos demandarles por discriminacion. Recuerden que la ACLU nos enseño durante muchos años a defender nuestros derechos aun cuando eramos "indocumentados." Ni la policia ni mucho menos immigracion puede hacernos nada. Ya saben lo que les pasa los policias blancos que nos golpean, y ya saben lo que pasa a oficiales de patrulla fronteriza, sino lean acerca de Ramos Compean. En mi pais, estos policias no estarian en la carcel como aqui en America.

Finalmente, quiero decirles que de ahora en adelante, el dia del cuatro de Julio todos deben de poner la bandera Mexicana en sus casa y carros, y dar vivas a la revolucion Mexicana, pues al fin y al cabo, California, y los estados del sur pertenecen a Mexico.

Ahora, antes que me olvide, recuerdan que muchos en el congreso se oponian a que el Ingles sea declarado el idioma oficial de Estados Unidos. Aqui tengo una estupenda noticia: De ahora en adelante el idioma oficial de America es ESPAÑOL!
y no solamente eso, todos los niños en las escuelas publicas tendran que tomar un test de español para saber en que nivel de entendimiento estan.

Asi que padres de familia de origen europeo, africano, chino y todos los demas, incluyendo nuestro amigos Musulmanes, matriculen a sus hijos e hijas en las clases de Español que se daran en las escuela publicas la cual sera pagada con los taxes de todos los americanos.

Gracias, y preparanse que los nuevos indocumentados estan ya cruzando la frontera con la ayuda del presidente y los democratas. Que lindo! No contaban con mi astucia!


Deskjockey
"This radical immigration of only wanting the most uneducated, criminal elements could only have been dreamed up by your mentor Teddy Kennedy to advance his agenda. Loved it this week when they shot down the amendment that convicted criminals shouldn't be given amnesty. That says it all." The immigration bill was a Republican bill and a Bush Bill why try and say it is a Kennedy bill he just tried to get it passed. Sorry you are so bitter and embarrassed by your heritage you really ought to take some good college history courses you might not be so sad and hurt.

jfp
Who was president then?

Why they hate us
Hey, Osama. Why do you hate us? Being disliked is so distressing, and we still do not know for sure what we did wrong. Please tell us so we can do whatever it is that will please you. http://www.poorgrandchildren.com

HI, CRIMINALS - WE WELCOME YOU... :(
Senate defeated an amendment by Sen. John Cornyn of Texas to prevent criminal aliens – gang members, those with felony convictions and those
currently facing deportation orders – from gaining legal status under this
bill.

Unbelievably, this amendment was defeated on a largely party-line
vote of 46-to-51."


Party of loons?

Re 4Freedom's Post:
This diatribe is right-wing hasta pa' dar y prestar. Since the rednecks who oppose Hispanic immigration and the Spanish language can't read it, how do you expect them to agree with it?

To largecaliber
I appreciate your humorous sarcasm but would like to correct your facts. When you say that it wasn't an immigrant (this is your implied meaning) who contributed to the defeat of Imperial Japan, you're not quite correct. What brought World War II to a screeching halt was the atomic bomb we dropped on Japan. The research that produced that bomb was, in fact, directed not only by an immigrant but by an immigrant from a nation that was our enemy: physicist Enrico Fermi. It was his team that sustained the first atomic chain reaction in a secret lab under the bleachers of the old squash court at the University of Chicago. The book later written by his wife Laura Fermi ("Atoms in the Family") details all of this and tells how the Fermis were not even allowed to have a short-wave radio in their house because they were considered enemy aliens. Check this out. And you will also find other immigrants working at Los Alamos. Perhaps we were a more tolerant nation at that time; I can't say. But good scientists were recognized as good scientists, and we took them where we could get them.

To 18wheeler
Sorry; have I been inattentive? Since I have a life, I can't be at the computer all day and all night. I tend to sit down here now and then to take a short breather from other labors. But if there is some particular point you'd like me to respond to, please state it clearly and I will get back to you as soon as I can. Did not mean to be ignoring you. Love & kisses, Lilly.

The Country is Lost
We are no longer the "UNITED" States of America. Can any of you not UNDERSTAND this present reality??? "Hello! Hello! Hello! Is there anybody in there??? Just nod if you can hear me??? Is there anyone home???" - Pink Floyd's The Wall. We are Red State Conservative Southern, Midwestern Heartland, and Western America and Blue State Northeastern, Upper Midwest, and West Coast America. We are two Americas completely divided with divided government and divided political sysytems. Red State America believes in the principles of Capitalism on which the Constitution stands, but Blue State America supports Communism and Socialism on which the current American Constitution was never founded. Red State America supports and honors our military; Blue State America despises our military. Red State America loves our country and is overwhelmingly patriotic; Blue State America believes it's all just meaningless, scary, controversial, saber-rattling jingoism that offends other countries in the world. Red State America believes the Constitution and American law applies today, yesterday, and tomorrow much as God is the same today, yesterdfay, and tomorrow; Blue State America believes the Constitution is a "living" document and God's laws and the nation's laws are subject to all sorts of contorted interpretations. Red State Americans truly love God; Blue Staters can't stand any God who gets in the way of Moral Relativism and Political Correctness. This impasse threatens the survival of both Red State America and Blue State America. The obvious solution when you reach such an impasse is to part ways. Red State America, it is time for your divorce from Blue State America. This relationship is now affecting your future survival; it will be the death of you if you stay in this maelstrom of insanity. The insanity ofthe Left will only get worse and worse and worse with time the longer you stay in this marriage of good and evil. Evil always wins when good compromises with it: witness the 2006 election! The sooner Red State America pushes for Secession in the State Houses of the Red States or vice versa if Blue State America does thesame, the better off both Blue and Red State America will be - although I strongly suspect Blue State America will eventually implode into 3rd world status or succumb to a serious terrorist attack, but what do they apparently really care about terrorist attacks for anyway?!? It's all just a "bumper sticker" as they say, right?!? The Right is fighting a useless uphill battle against an entire Blue State America MSM that will never give it a fair handshake. There's a word for this; it's called propaganda and the modern euphemism for propaganda is Political Correctness. The MSM will never help Conservatism get the message out. The MSM will guarantee that the Demcoratic Party always gets a free pass and never gets prosecuted for anything. It's as if Red State America has to use the Soviet TASS to get its message out! It's NEVER going to happen, People! Leave Blue State America in your dust; we don't need them. We can start our own stock exchange in St. Louis. We can form our own new Federal Red State American government there too if you like. Give the Blue Staters the cesspools of DC and NYC. Let the Blue Staters have their gay marriage statutes that openly mock God. Let the Blue Staters have their Hollyweird nutjobs in La-La land and their sexual deviants and degenerates in San Fransicko! Let them have their lawlessness to their hearts content. Let them have their socialist utopian neo-hippie state. Let them tax themselves into oblivion! Let them defend themselves from military attack for a change instead of relying almost exclusively on the boys from Red State America to defend their supercilious, arrogant selves. Let them see how far they get with staving off terrorist attacks with hamstringing the CIA and the FBI wiretapping of terrorist phone lines and computers. Let them have the completely insulting, anti-American, useless UN. What do we need Blue State America for anyway? Don't worry! We can still maintain diplomatic and trade relations with these useful idiots just as we do with Canadians. Yes, we would have to build a border with Blue State America and the border with Mexico, but in the end we will be AMERICA again as Our Conservative VRWC Founding Fathers intended for this nation to always be. We will once again be the envy of the world and even, I venture to say, the envy of Blue State America which will see the folly of its present course of insanity.

songo, el comrade
Well I'm glad to see that you've come out of the perverbial closet as an unabashed communist. That shall make our further discussions a lot simpler. Lookit, my point about the native American savages that inhabited this land before they were eventually defeated by europeans is that if europeans did not do it than some other more sophisticated force would have. That is not because they were inferior human beings, it is because ours is a world that is governed by the aggressive use of force. It is an unmissable fact of world history, unless you are intentionally trying to miss it for some political advantage.
Now, if you think that Cuba and Venezuala are functioning democracies, you are a communist. And there is nothing wrong with that unless you've read or learned anything about what the practical outcome of communism is; SLAVERY.
I feel sorry for anyone that works for you, because you view them as pawns.
And while we are at it, since you seem to be so fricken tough, why don't you go ahead and define the word "neocon"? I've offered this challenge many times in the past to similar communists like you, yet I have never recieved a reply.
Pinocha.

HankRearden
NEOCONS:

1. They agree with Trotsky on permanent revolution, violent as well as intellectual.
2. They are for redrawing the map of the Middle East and are willing to use force to do so.
3. They believe in preemptive war to achieve desired ends.
4. They accept the notion that the ends justify the means?that hard-ball politics is a moral necessity.
5. They express no opposition to the welfare state.
6. They are not bashful about an American empire; instead they strongly endorse it.
7. They believe lying is necessary for the state to survive.
8. They believe a powerful federal government is a benefit.
9. They believe pertinent facts about how a society should be run should be held by the elite and withheld from those who do not have the courage to deal with it.
10. They believe neutrality in foreign affairs is ill-advised.
11. They hold Leo Strauss in high esteem.
12. They believe imperialism, if progressive in nature, is appropriate.
13. Using American might to force American ideals on others is acceptable. Force should not be limited to the defense of our country.
14. 9-11 resulted from the lack of foreign entanglements, not from too many.
15. They dislike and despise libertarians (therefore, the same applies to all strict constitutionalists.)
16. They endorse attacks on civil liberties, such as those found in the Patriot Act, as being necessary.
17. They unconditionally support Israel and have a close alliance with the Likud Party.

Candi writes: June, 09, 2007 8:04 PM

Like English? Fund Education.

…If the English language is indeed "under assault", it is only because a certain political party keeps trying to defund our public education system! *cough* You know who you are.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

Sadly, there is only one party that has controlled this country for 200 years and it is the Republicrat Party that has two divisions and each division can’t seem to outspend the other, except the Repub division probably has the lead with large increases in Title 1 & NCLB. Of course such spending is unconstitutional but with a one Party system that is of little concern.

The other bad news is as they outspend each other they actually hurt education because they merely increase indoctrination not critical thinking. The test results show that spending has been inversely proportional to spending. Our giver-ment k-12 indoctrination camps are in shambles. In eighth grade only one state has achieved competency and that is only in math.

Here is the mapping for state performance. Look at grade 8. Also notice that the summary in the beginning points out there is no correlation to all the indoctrination cheerleader’s claims of more teachers, more money. The reality is it is inversely.

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pubs/studies/2007482.asp

Here is a spending/results chart


http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?print=yes&id=13458

Candi, you are entitled to your opinions but not your facts.

Take Back the Government
Look man I appreciate what you are saying and you are pretty well on target. The country at present is not close to that kind of armed conflict, and that is a good thing. As much as I would love for all the commielibs to have to fend for themselves, they have built their own institutions which make that impossible, short of war, for now.
Too many damned fine Americans have died defending this country. It is up to us to make sure it is left intact. Political and real wars will follow after you and I are long gone from this world. Our focus ought to be to unify those of us that wish to preserve this wonderful nation. That is the only meaningful way we can win (by which, I mean, freedom can continue to exist). Focus your attention on the future and fight (and I think you will). We can defeat the commie/socialist/democrats. Just wait and see.

To Liberty
If I may, I would like to suggest a brief article that can quickly be googled and read by any who want to know more about Neoconservatism. It is "Leo Strauss' Philosophy of Deception". Briefly: society is to be divided into "the elite" who hold the money and power, and "the masses" (everybody else). The elite are to control the masses using deception, patriotism, and religion. A strong leader must be amoral. Foreign policy is to be aggressive and militant. Perpetual war will help keep the masses in line. For those who don't know of him, Leo Strauss was the University of Chicago political science professor who formulated the Neoconservative political philosophy that informs the Bush administration. Among his followers at the U of C were Paul Wolfowitz and Ahmad Chalabi.

To 18Wheeler
Since I haven't heard from you yet and I am now going to bed, let me respond to a point you mentioned in your post, that Mexicans don't want to assimilate. The pattern shown by all immigrant groups who have come here is that while the immigrant generation may or may not assimilate, their children do assimilate. Traditional women who stay at home to take care of children and keep house etc don't usually learn English as much as their spouses who work outside the home and their children who attend school. All immigrant groups have been known to use the little kid as translator. I know of immigrants (Polish and Croatian, actually) who do not speak English at home because they know the children will learn English at school and from other kids and they also want them to grow up knowing their own language. BTW where I live there is a huge need for more evening English classes for adult immigrants to be funded, and guess who is for de-funding free public education---not the Democrats.

There is always a big fight between the generation of immigrant parents and the generation of their children. If you want to read about this in a non-Hispanic setting for objectivity, see the books of Maxine Hong or look at some of the recent movies about what it's like to be the son or daughter of Chinese immigrants to the United States. The kids struggle to respect and honor their parents while also making their way in the new country and...yes, assimilating, and it's hard. But they assimilate.

This notion that I read about on townhall, that militant Mexicans are going to declare La Raza, reclaim all the states in the Southwest, declare their own country, and secede from the United States is very interesting. I don't think this will happen. But I notice that Hagen Daaz has a new flavor of ice cream, Dulce de Leche, so, who knows, maybe that's a sign that La Raza is just around the corner. Ojo.

Liberty
Congratulations for being the first one to do this. I'll give you credit for having onions. Let me address this point by point;
1.Trotsky is a neocon? I thought he was a communist.
2.Exactly which countries borders have been re-drawn?
3.If you believe people want to kill you, and you have proof of such, why wouldn't you want to stop it. And by the way, what war has ever waged without a desired end?
4.When is politics not 'hard ball'. That is the nature of people.
5.WHAT??? Are you stupid or something?
6.Can you name for me any empire that is strongly endorsed by anybody?
7.exactly which lies are you referring too?
8.WHO?
#9 does not even make sense.
In fact, the whole of the rest of your argument does not make any damn sense. Maybe you can make it easy for somebody as stupid as I am and just name somebody. Who is the quinticential "neocon" Name somebody please.

Hal Donahue writes: 09, 2007 8:24 PM

Deskjockey writes:
"This radical immigration of only wanting the most uneducated, criminal elements could only have been dreamed up by your mentor Teddy Kennedy to advance his agenda. Loved it this week when they shot down the amendment that convicted criminals shouldn't be given amnesty. That says it all."

HAL RESPONDS: The immigration bill was a Republican bill and a Bush Bill why try and say it is a Kennedy bill he just tried to get it passed. Sorry you are so bitter and embarrassed by your heritage you really ought to take some good college history courses you might not be so sad and hurt.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

Kennedy started with an immigration bill back in ’60’s to reshape the method slanted to a 25% Mexican component. That debate back then used the term “wetbacks” in congress when we weren’t as PC.

Kennedy is probably the most powerful man in the world. Nothing happens without his OK in the legislature. No child left behind required Bush going to Kennedy for approval. I can assure you that when the US Chamber of Commerce wrote this bill it was well vetted by Kennedy before it was submitted.

I really don’t know what the difference between a Repub bill and Dem bill is. They are both Marxist and I suspect the Repubs probably more so. It is a one party system split in two divisions to let the masses think they had a choice. I didn’t vote for Bush or his Dem sidekick in either election. I have a simple question when voting, is this candidate going to take my liberty and freedoms away or protect them? I always find it amusing how the folks are sycophants for their jersey. The left is demonizing Bush, and he has done more for them since FDR and Johnson. If he’d suit up in Blue, they’d had made Bush the greatest president of all time, but he wore Red and that is a no no regardless that he implements their entire agenda.

I’m not bitter or embarrassed by my heritage, I am my own person and what has been has been. I just admit the facts for what they are. Going to a college to get an education on history is an oxymoron. I think you meant to get the current politically correct version of history. What is important is that I’m not a left wing socialist like the immigrants of the past 100 years that have done some extensive damage. When you bring in a foreign culture you bring its problems, be it disease, politics, crime or whatever. That is why we had the old immigration policies that tried to prevent colonization and when it started they put the brakes on.

Deskjockey
Dude, you are hardcore. Appreciate it.

I think its past time
For being nice to any person who supports this crime wave from Mexico, and all other parts of the globe.

They are eat up with their own self-righteousness, and as useless (for good for us all) as a bucket of warm spit.

They side with the criminal element illegally entering the country and fight against their own countrymen.

I want to see Americans who love this country get angry....and stay angry.

Shove their insults right back into their own faces, beginning with the hi-jacked office of President to the globalist GW Bush.

Does no good to show these people any favor.

Isaiah 26:10

Let favor be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness

Songo's posts
My thanks to HankRearden, colorfulbeachpersonality, and others for your comments to Songo regarding his post addressed to me. I have just read his post and since he gushed about things I never mentioned in my post to which he supposedly was responding, I was thinking about how to respond without getting into a war of words with someone of his ilk. All of you have responded better than I would have done.

Songo, in years past, I spent a lot of time dealing with people with personalities similar to yours and probably know more about you than you think. No, I didn’t miss Mauro’s point. He was quite clear and I responded to him quite clearly.

Now, a few comments to you in addition to those already expressed by better writers. Here is the basic thesis, Songo. We, the citizens of the United States CAN stop any takeover whatsoever but only if we have the will to do so. As of now, and well into the foreseeable future, we the citizens can do just about anything we have the will to do. The crux of the matter, and the crux of this whole thread, is whether we have the will to defend our values. It is not your threats, or the threats of your ilk that I have heard for at least 40 years that will determine our fate. It is we the citizens who will make that determination. The results well may be as you describe, but not due to the powers to which you subscribe. Is this clear enough? Some others like you have had trouble grasping the difference in these concepts.

Now, for a more trivial matter. At no time have I mentioned any “dream of a return to the 1950s Happy Days All-White-Faces (except Arnold) scene.” I only mention this now because it so closely resembles the way your type lost credibility in your arguments 40 years ago. Don’t you (plural) ever learn to stick to the subject and not let your emotions negate any positive argument you might have? Incidentally, in the 1950s to which you refer, I was working quite well with some fine people with black faces. Furthermore, you don’t even know the color of my face! As a matter of fact, you apparently don’t know much about anything except how to repeat the same old garbage ad nauseum.

As to your threat concerning my children, one of my kids already speaks Spanish – and French, some Latin, and English. My other kid speaks German and English. So even your asinine threat toward my children is more ridiculous than you thought, assuming that you thought at all.

Lilly
"If I may, I would like to suggest a brief article that can quickly be googled and read by any who want to know more about Neoconservatism. It is "Leo Strauss' Philosophy of Deception"."

Yes, I've read it. What's your point? Do you disagree with an item in my list? If so, which one? It's way too late to beat around the bush.

HankRearden
You know what Hank, I started developing my response to you, then I decided it wasn't worth it. You clearly just lobbed out the first thing that popped out of your mind, without giving it any thought or doing any research of your own.

Before you come back to me asking childish questions, go do a modicum of research.

Here, I'll get you started. Yes, Trotsky was a Communist. Neocons, by in large are ex-Trotskyites.

Borders.... I suggest you take a look at "A Clean Break". http://www.iasps.org/strat1.htm

Here I'll lob several neocons to you: Irving Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Bill Kristol.....

The Best Societies Are.....
These are the facts; take them how you will: There's no disputing that the English-speaking, and white majority, peoples have created the best societies in world history. Not perfect for sure and much bad, but nevertheless the best.

It's a cultural inheritance of the British empire. Look around at the nations you'd want to live in the most, for freedom, wealth, rule of law, minority and women's rights, etc. - Britain (until recently with the Muslim takeover), Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and USA.

Other desirable nations with similar qualities are also of white majority, although not from British heritage - Sweden, Norway, Finland, Germany, Denmark, Switzerland, Holland, Israel, France, Italy, Iceland, Belgium, Austria.

The white-majority nations that are undesirable are those that have never recovered from the Marxist-collectivist experiment - Russia and other ex-Soviet and Eastern European nations. Within Africa, the only nation with any desirability at all is the only one that was dominated by whites - South Africa.

Desirable nations never dominated by whites include Japan, Singapore, and South Korea. Mind you, Japan was forced by America to become what it is today, and South Korea only exists because of American military action and protection.

The rest of the world, all non-white majority, is crap where no one would ever want to live - one or more or all of corrupt, communist, Muslim, totalitarian, poor.

Don't bother arguing that it's due to white oppression of non-white peoples. The white-majority nations are the most welcoming and generous nations on Earth. They would love to see the rest of the world become free and wealthy. The reason they don't is communist ideology instead of the free-market, Islam, and rampant corruption, but not race itself.

The 1960s Marxist-collectivist scum, including Ted Kennedy, purposely changed our immigration policies to import huge numbers of poor non-whites with little or no experience with freedom, in order to destroy the traditional cultural makeup of the country, helping to enable the eventual Fabian transition into the collectivist utopia (hellhole in reality), with themselves in charge of course, they envision.

Call me a bigot, racist, white-supremicist, etc. if that will make you feel better and assuage your cognitive dissonance, but then try to dispute the facts.

Hal Donahue
What difference does it make who our president was when leftists in Cambodia were killing a third of their population? Those actions were done by leftists on their own initiative based on their own ideology. We were in no way to blame.

Illegals


It's only a matter of time that you'll hear the singing of the national anthem in English and Spanish. That's what they do in Canada ( sung in English and French.) And anybody who speaks out against it will be labeled a racist by the Dems.

inconvenient truths
from the column:
"...where a bilingual individual gains an advantage, a bilingual country suffers from irreparable fragmentation because the disappearance of a common language leads to the end of a common culture. If the U.S. Senate effectively legalizes 12 million to 20 million mostly Spanish-speaking illegal aliens -- a mainly Mexican bloc which, ironically, is anything but "diverse"-- the common language (English) and common culture (American) slip that much farther away."

We are already the most diverse nation on earth. In some ways we have benefited from this. HOWEVER, the glue that has held us together has been assimilation-- a common language and culture. Oceans have played a key role in this-- moats from old ties. This is NOT the goal of many apologists for ILLEGAL aliens.

The experiences of Quebec, Belgium, and others should be a clarion call to warn of the dangers of bilingualism, even when ethnicity is not an added challenge. Various nations in Europe are DEEPLY regretting having imported the ethnically, religiously and culturally disparate to do their dirty work for them. We are slouching toward Gomorrah if we do not radiate the cancer spreading from south of the border very soon.

America CANNOT benefit from the arrival of the uneducated, indigent-- especially those who invade ILLEGALLY, willfully choose not to assimilate, and are aided and abetted by the anti-America PC ilk.

JFP
"What difference does it make who our president was when leftists in Cambodia were killing a third of their population? Those actions were done by leftists on their own initiative based on their own ideology. We were in no way to blame." Just like you are no way to blame for 9/11, the fiasco in Iraq, the huge influx of illegal immigrants? Come on there was once a time when people admitted when they failed and accepted responsibility for their actions. Remember those days?

deskjockey
"Going to a college to get an education on history is an oxymoron. I think you meant to get the current politically correct version of history." I think this means ignorance is bliss?

English Speaking
I thought this was a great article Diana. I hate the hypocrisy of Mexico. No one ever talks about it. I love the beach (but who doesn't) and I just can't sneak into mexico and live there, b/c I would be locked up. Just look at dog the bounty hunter. he was doing the right thing by bringing that ****** to justice and yet he ends up in jail. Do not break the law in Mexico, but they are more than willing to let their people (citizens) break our laws. RJ

To Liberty
Re "What's your point [why did I suggest the article about Straussian philosophy}": No point, Liberty, except that I happened to know of a short article that illustrates what you said in your list and hoped that if I mentioned it somebody might go and read it. I thought your list covered the ground pretty well and appreciate your posting it. Just trying to be helpful. I am distressed that for six years many (I would guess most) Americans have not really understood "Neoconservative" and thought maybe since the words were similar it was just another way of saying "Conservative". Not at all. Neoconservatism is like a form of acid that dissolves democracy (or if you don't like that word since it sounds like "Democrat", let's just substitute "free and open society"). Neoconservatism is bad news for a free people.

lilly
My question to you and a serious one is has it killed Conservatism

Lilly
No, I don't have a problem with the world, democracy, Lilly. I only have a problem with it when it is used to describe our form of government in this country. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the political parties. Our country was established as a limited Constitutional Republic, or I guess you could say a democratic Republic. That is very different than a Democracy.

Our Founding Fathers repeatedly warned us about Democracies.

----------

Here's the thing I don't understand about you, Lilly. You justly nail the neoconservatives, but then you turn around and support nearly the same type of philosophy in your support of the big government socialists in the Democratic party.

Until we realize that it is our liberty that is the important thing, and for that we cannot look to government, but need to restrain it, we will be fighting two ends of the spectrum against their collective goal of oppressing freedom.

Not for Culture
I have been reading through this thread and I think there's a general misconception that Mexicans (and other immigrants) want to come here so they can share in our "superior culture". Actually, they come here for economic advantage: jobs, higher pay than they can get at home, and the things that money will buy like cars and nice houses and trips to the mall Many elements of our culture frighten and disgust them. Coming from a more traditional, church-based, and family-oriented culture, they do NOT want to share in our 50% divorce rate, our assignment of young children to paid caregivers, our abandonment of our elderly, and our secularism. They don't want their kids having sex at age fourteen. Folks from India etc still expect to arrange their children's marriages. They don't want their kids mouthing off to them in a way that didn't happen back home. If you need an illustration, just beam in on the fights between immigrants and their teenage kids, who are trying to assimilate with American culture because that's what teenagers do, assimilate with the peer culture, and you will understand: immigrants do NOT want our culture---just our money. They typically believe they will be able to preserve their own culture intact but in their kids' generation this breaks down.

So I see some confusion. Many posters complain that immigrants come here to get our "superior culture" but they also complain that immigrants hold themselves apart and won't join American culture. Just wait. It happens in the second generation.

XYZABC
It's not the color of our skin that made this country great. It was our Constitution and our form of government. Sadly, these are the very same things that we now consider outdated and allow our elected public servants to flat out ignore.

Until we get our heads screwed on straight as an American people and understand that we too can go into slavery, like so very many other nations, we will continue our slide into socialism/marxism/communism. Pick one, they differ very little. Problem is, we're no longer just "sliding", we are full tilt lunging towards the finish line.

It is our individual liberty that's important, folks. Government is never the answer. In fact, it's usually the problem. We MUST reinstate the Constitution!

What will we do without freedom? It CAN happen here, you know; and it IS.

Lilly
I agree that most come here for economic advantage; although some come here for La Reconquista.

I have compassion for the former. The latter, I want to punch out. NEITHER, has any business entering our country illegally and BOTH need to get the hell out.

Fact Checking!?!
Townhall could at least fact check the billious articles they produce. Mohammed (p.b.u.h) is not the 2nd most popular name in the UK, it is the 22nd most popular (in 2006. It's bad enough that you spew barely vailed hate, but don't distort reality, or even downright lie, to meet your ends.

Hal Donahue writes: June, 10, 2007 1:06
deskjockey
"Going to a college to get an education on history is an oxymoron. I think you meant to get the current politically correct version of history."

Hal Donahue writes:
I think this means ignorance is bliss?

DESKJOCKERY RESPONDS

It means paying $25K/yr for college ignorance is not only expensive, but also child abuse.

reply to Liberty
I agree, and i said it's not a racial thing but cultural, that almost all the desirable nations are white-majority. Also, while our Constitution is the (supposed) guarantor of our freedoms, it's a result of already existing values held by the founders. Those values are what makes us great!

55% of..
...Mexicans have a negative view of Americans!

Assimilation??? How about Philly being sued for not providing enough foreign language ballots??? It's amazing that Citizens can't understand enough English to vote! Citizenship has become a joke. It has been watered down to a "cracker jack" toy!

Understanding diversity
A common language is a good thing. That's why Spain imposed it on the territory they conquered in South, Central and North America. Nobody in the Americas spoke Spanish in 1491, you know!

So, when the US purchased the Louisiana Purchase, we imposed English as the common language. People were free to speak their native language at home (at one point, almost 50 percent of the population spoke German), but they spoke English in public -- including at school.

When we won the rest of North America from the Spanish in a war they started, we also imposed English as a common language in those territories.

A common language makes it easier for everyone to communicate. It's not saying that English is a better language than Spanish or Chinese or whatever. It's simply saying that a common language is expedient and something a healthy society should strive for.

We've lost that understanding in our country. It used to be diversity meant differences that shared commonality -- we were Americans from different places, but Americans first and foremost. Now diversity has mutated into differences that hate commonality. We are people from different places who don't want to be Americans, but want all the advantages of being Americans. That sort of mentality will destroy this country where our diversity working toward a common good in the past built the greatest nation on earth.

Somehow, we must stop being ashamed of being white and English speaking. We must teach our children that ours is a rich culture to be proud of rather than hidden. When my Indian ancestors faced this choice they were a small minority and it is understandable that they would lose their culture in that circumstances. But white English speaking Americans are still about 75 percent of the country, so why are we acting like we're a helpless minority? If each one of us personally takes responsibility for saving our culture and insists that our legislators stop treating us like second-class citizens, we can turn things around.

Of course, we're going to have to listen to screams of "racist" until equalibrium is once against established. Are we up to that or are we become a nation of whimps?

XYZABC
The values of our Founders are embodied in the Constitution. As Americans, we have strayed quite a bit from the values of our founders, so we can't just count on man to fix the problems that man has allowed to happen.

The answer is to reinstate the Constitution and INSIST that our public servants abide by their oaths of office to uphold it.

To Liberty
I know that we disagree about this but surely we can discuss it without throwing things at each other---I believe that there are some domestic functions that are best handled by a strong federal government. I don't think that the free market can regulate itself---or maybe I used the wrong verb there because even if it can, it clearly won't---it doesn't. I think that a nation should be more than people trying to make money off each other.

Right now I have a young friend who is on a business trip to Norway---she just emailed me that while so many aspects of life there are attractive she is appalled by the 58% tax rate. So my ideal would be somewhere in between giving business carte blanche to screw workers and customers alike, without restraint, and a socialist government sustained by a 58% tax rate.

An example of what I mean? I'd at least like to feel confident in our American food and drug supply---I have all my (long) life, but I don't lately, what with Big Pharma writing its own rules and globalization bringing us contaminated stuff from China. I can't imagine what a government is for if not to keep its people safe and that means not just from terrorists with bombs but also from greedy entrepreneurs with no conscience.

I don't see that this is at all the same thing as Neoconservatism, which puts a strong amoral leader in charge and pretty much gives the heave-ho to free and open government. (Note that I am not using the word "democracy"---I did not know until visiting townhall that this word is anathema to conservatives---I grew up understanding it to mean "government of the people" which is what its Greek stems mean literally.) I understand that as a Democrat I am a guest in your house (or your town hall, as it were) so I am trying to be polite. But it's interesting to share our ideas and discuss our differences, much moreso than just going to a message board where everybody plays the same tune all the time.

And I do think Obama is right when he preaches his theme that all Americans have a lot in common. You are conservative, I am liberal, but if we were neighbors we would probably be quite friendly and helpful to one another.

Why politicians love the Mexican system
Why are they trying to turn the US into Mexico instead of trying to turn Mexico into the US? Here there is opportunity for everyone, and relatively low corruption. Then it hit me: Mexico is a bureaucrat's wet dream: a poor, passive, uneducated, easily manipulated population that permits a virtually unchallenged ruling class. That is their vision for the US as well.

Songo
I also thank you for your response of June 10. It is good to disagree more pleasantly. We seem to have different interpretations of the word “ilk .” My very large dictionary has the following, quoted in part without technical portions:

ilk (1). noun. 1. family class, or kind: i.e. he and all his ilk. 2. of that ilk a. (in Scotland) of the same family name or class. b. of the same class or kind. 3. same.

ilk (2). Chiefly Scot. pronoun 1. each. adjective 2. each; every.

I admit that when I was reading your initial post, I was thinking of my own Scottish ancestry (and their ilk) and how they got to this continent and how they fought against the British and (yes) the native Indians even before this was a sovereign nation. Will you agree that I wasn’t being exactly lazy or intentionally offensive? But, if the term does offend you for any reason, I apologize.

As for my assertion that we the citizens could indeed secure our borders if we had the will to do so, I was speaking of what is POSSIBLE, including things which at this point might be considered inappropriate or "unamerican" by many but which at some later time might be considered necessary regardless of severity. The Soviet Union was fairly successful in keeping people inside their wall, augmented by guards with machine guns. Obviously, they didn’t prevent all escapes but certainly prevented mass exits. Obviously, we could do something similar, with more guard posts and more machine guns if desired, and by a large number of other tactics of which you perhaps are not aware. Please note that I am not expressing any judgment about any specific action. As I have mentioned repeatedly, it depends upon the will of the citizens. On the other hand, I do not rule out the possibility of a terrible, bloody civil, or uncivil, war before all this is settled. We have done it before, haven't we? Or, the citizens may simply accept what is happening and try to cope. Eventually, the outcome will be known, but not today. As Brutus stated in Julius Caesar,
“O, that a man might know
The end of this day's business ere it come!
But it sufficeth that the day will end,
And then the end is known.


Songo
One small suggestion and then I'll end our discussion. When you respond to a specific person, you should stick to the specific things that person has said. Otherwise, you weaken your argument significantly and appear to be letting your emotions get ahead of your logic. It invites emotion instead of reasoning from the other person and the downward spiral continues.

Best regards.
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