Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Tuesday, March 10, 2009
Dennis Prager :: Townhall.com Columnist
Some Silver Linings in Our Dark Economy
by Dennis Prager
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


There are two definitions for the term “optimist”: One who believes the future is good and one who sees the good in any given situation.

I am as little an optimist by the first definition as I am a big optimist according to the second. In the world (as opposed to my own life), I rarely think things will turn out well because they rarely do. Evil often triumphs; and even when defeated, the amount of human suffering it causes does not mean that the optimists were right. Hitler was vanquished, Stalin’s regime fell, and Mao finally died. But to the hundreds of millions of innocent people who were slaughtered, tortured, and enslaved those happy endings were irrelevant.

As regards the second definition of optimism (please see an extended discussion of this in my book “Happiness Is a Serious Problem”), count me in. It is imperative to find, or even manufacture, bright spots in a dark situation.

So here are some silver linings in our dark economic circumstances:

-- Most people are complaining less. They are more grateful for whatever they have than they were before. For example, just about everyone who still has a job is grateful for having it; nearly all of us now realize how fragile employment is. Therefore, there is an increase in the most important human quality -- gratitude. It is the root of both goodness and happiness. Grateful people are better people and they are happier people. They make the world better while the ungrateful make it worse. So the increase in gratitude may make our society better.

-- The adulation of extremely wealthy Wall Street “wizards” has ended. Most of those people produced nothing of worth and believed in economic nonsense. A large number of people making millions of dollars a year were proficient at only one thing -- making millions of dollars a year.

-- Given how many of these people were highly educated Ivy League graduates, more and more Americans may come to realize that Harvard and Yale turn out at least as many fools (perhaps more given their high incidence of arrogance) than San Diego State University or Long Island University. For years I have been urging listeners to my radio show to send their children to less expensive colleges with reputations for quality (of which this country has many) rather than mortgage their homes or raid their retirement funds to pay for high-priced colleges that offer equal or inferior instruction but more “prestige.” I was right. American parents have wasted vast sums of money purchasing cachet rather than a superior education.

-- The flirtation of capitalists and moderate liberals with left-wing politics may diminish. Why entrepreneurs who made millions would support the Democratic Party and other parts of the left when the left’s policies make it so much more difficult for others to attain financial success has always eluded rational explanation. Now that the society cannot afford liberal-left social policies -- indeed they are on their way to bankrupting cities, states, and perhaps one day America -- erstwhile financial sector and moderate liberal supporters of the Democratic Party are beginning to question leftist ideas. Some examples:

Jim Cramer, Obama admirer and host of CNBC’s Mad Money: “President Obama's budget may be one of the great wealth destroyers of all time.”

Warren Buffett, billionaire Obama supporter: “You can’t expect people to unite behind you if you're trying to jam a bunch of things down their throat.”

Clive Crook, Financial Times: “Barack Obama’s first budget showed him to be more of a left-leaning liberal than I and many others … had previously supposed.”

-- Big oil producing nations -- most of which are governed by bad people -- have been hit hard. The primitives who run Saudi Arabia, for example, have strutted on the world’s stage as if they have anything more to offer than a necessary commodity that by sheer good luck happens to lie under their soil. The decline in influence of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Russia, and Venezuela is a good thing for humanity.

-- For the foreseeable future -- i.e., until another generation grows up that has not experienced this major economic downturn -- most Americans will return to some basic economic principals like not buying things they cannot afford, and not incurring too much debt. That, too, is a good thing.

If Americans become more grateful; stop venerating millionaire geniuses who produce nothing; spend a lot less on college; finally recognize that the left is a wealth-destruction machine (the left everywhere is much more interested in reshaping society -- therefore much more interested in amassing power than in making wealth); and start living more economically responsibly some real good will flow from this real bad economy.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Dennis Prager is a radio show host, contributing columnist for Townhall.com, and author of 4 books including Happiness Is a Serious Problem: A Human Nature Repair Manual.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read Dennis Prager's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
Left "theoreticians" will not learn
Yes, indeed there is a silver lining, thank God. Unfortunately, left-leaning "theoreticians" (academics and intellectuals) I don't think will join any time soon these entrepreneurs in seeing the nefarious influence of a heavy-handed government over the economy.

HERE'S HOW IT GOT SO DARK
SUBPRIME TO RECESSION IN ONE EASY LESSON
Here’s the short story of the time bomb that blew our economy apart.

http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2009/03/subprime-to-rec ession-in-one-easy.html


Repeat lessons
I think it was a guy over at World Net Daily who said vote None of the Above instead of voting against Obama. His reasoning was that you couldn't be accused or feel guilty about voting for McCain. The second and main purpose was that for Conservatives to ever get a fair hearing again this younger generation had to experience a Carter. If they knew what very liberal policies mean to their quality of life they would stop whining that things are not good enough under Republicans and start appreciating those key ideas again. Like the ideas Prgaer lists people hopefully will come out of this with a mindset more in line with 1980 America and we can reclaim Conservative ideas and values again and have it make sense on a gut level. No one ever claims to want Carter back after they lived through 1976-1980

Great article!
I think that one more silver lining is that when we recover, it will be because of the determined spirit of the American entrepreneur and American worker.

We will see, As Reagan did, the greatness of the American people to overcome and create a thriving economy.

Good article Mr. Pager
It doesn't matter a whole lot if one see's the water glass as half empty. And another see's it as half full. It is the water itself, the political waters,that have become polluted and toxic! We cannot "hope" the situation will change. We must drain the glass, sanitize it and refill it with clean fresh water!

The silver lining is, that the American Patriots can do this even if it means using armed force.

Amen Dennis
Why Cramer, Buffet or anyone who believes in free market capitalism comes anywhere near Barack Obama is something that cannot be rationalized.

Obama's clearest economic policy position was when he blurted out his basic creed to ole Joe the Plumber "Share the wealth." Obama's entire life has been spent with the radical left and their visceral hatred for American capitalism. Obama's own vision of America is that of a racist, heartless nation built on exploitation of blacks and the poor. In short the man is a socialist/communist who craves the power to transform America into one in which the communist creed will reign.

From each according to his ability. To each according to his need.

Only a demented fool thinks that anything like this is possible on this benighted planet. Ability is suddenly nowhere to be found while needs are boundless. This is the outcome where ever this mindless plan has been tried.

Raise Your Hands
Anyone else want Obama to fail?

jon
the goal of obama and his co-conspirators is to impoverish everyone, enslave the population, and guarantee the permanent power of the democratic party, while making our country an international laughingstock. damned right i want him to fail.

Cognitive Dissonance
Some people seem to be good at making money--and nothing else. Both Warren Buffett and Jim Cramer supported Democrats and contributed to Obama's campaign. And they were not alone. Most Americans don't realize that the big players on Wall Street are Democrats and contributors to the Party. Guess what happened?

Obama is selling them short and is poised to confiscate more of their profits. The "Masters of the Universe" have no clothes and stand naked before the universe. But Cramer and Buffett still maintain loyalty to Obama and the Democrat Party.

Is this cognitive dissonance or what?

Already the whining is down
Those Generation Yners who used to strut in to the hiring office, sit down, cross their legs and start their DEMANDS are now concentrating more on what they can do for us than on what we can do for them. (I hear that fewer of them are bringing their Mommies with them, too.)

As our new managing partner is discussing an end to the one-man, one-secretary regime, more girls who used to spend their days roaming the office with coffee cup in hand are actually at their desks when someone calls them.

Marketing is far more anxious to assist us than they are eager to get rid of our call so they can go back to talking about their upcoming maternity leave.

There is nothing like the prospect of losing the old job to focus people on why they are at the office to begin with.

Kathryn you are right!
We the American people will get through this and emerge stronger and revitalized as a result. For too many years we assumed that our homes would always be worth more so we bought homes we could barely afford in good times and took out home equity loans to buy more and more "stuff". Stuff we really didn't need. So often we were made to feel that it was kind of patriotic to buy things to fuel the consumer-driven economy. During the holiday season we were told that the retail sector needed us to buy lots of things for friends and families. To top it off, our country stopped making the stuff we bought which decimated the manufacturing sector. But at least the stuff was cheap.

Like many Americans,my husband and I lost half our life savings last year. I'm shopping less and enjoying life more. Like Dennis, I am optimistic!

Most of the people who post on this website don't like President Obama but while he's not perfect, I like him and think he's right about many things. Those of you who portray him as some sort of ego-maniac forget that his mantra was never "Yes I can" it was "Yes WE can!". And he's right about that. When the American start working together we will prevail. Yes, we CAN!!!

Dennis
Thanks Dennis for a good article. I too am optimistic about the future of our country.

The reason I'm writing though is a little off-subject. I was listening to your radio show last week and wanted to call you but didn't want to dial while driving. Anyway, you had a guest on who wrote a book about being able to see "Zebras". You talked about the ability to see things as striped rather than just black or white. You were mainly talking about family members and others in our everyday lives.

I wish you had generalized this concept to how we Americans look at each other. Maybe you did this but I didn't hear the whole show.
We label people--
Liberals/Conservatives/Evangelicals/Atheists/Republicans/Democrats/rednecks/RINO's/etc. (obviously I could go on and on)--and fail to see other as complex human beings. Our country is in a crisis right now. We need to stop the name calling and finger pointing. We need to find common ground and listen to each other. We all have something to learn and together we will prevail. Thanks for listening to me.

dennis prager
Great article.Jon,you hit the nail on the head with your comment. My hope is that since we survived Jimmy"Born Again"Carter we will survive Obama.

Curmudgeon
You are exactly right.

Dennis
Great column. Thank you for pointing out the "silver lining".
Jim: You are right, I did survive Carter, and we got Pres. Regaen. Now it don't get better then that.
Kirk

Optimism
Dennis, where's the optimism in an article that claims that subject as it's topic and then speaks of people who "still" have jobs. With most of the country having an unemployment rate of less than 10%I think it's a safe bet that 90% of the workforce are going off to work every day.

How can a Dennis Prager, claiming to be an optimist, say things like that?

The left destroys wealth?!!!!!!!
Prager, you're insane. This destruction of wealth was brought on by a philosophy that believed, unquestioningly, in the idea that markets can regulate themselves. That is the core of right wing ideology: less government.

The left is trying to make sure that the lower and middle class share in the wealth creation of the country. And we are currently witnessing what happens when a country adopts an economic philosophy of supply-side economics and totally ignores the demand side. A country cannot thrive without a thriving middle class.

Republicans have proven, through their actions, that their main concern is helping out the wealthy. Not because Republicans are evil. I'm sure they genuinely believed that wealth would trickle down. But this recession has proven that philosophy to be false, just as the fall of the Soviet empire proved Communism to be a failure.

It's time to find a middle ground.

And, believe it or not, Obama is moving us toward that middle ground.

Obama's plan is to have government at 22% of GDP when his policies are fully enacted, and we find our way out of this recession. That's exactly the same percentage as under Reagan. As I recall, entrepreneurs did very well in the eighties and nineties. Yet Republicans today call that socialism. I guess that means Reagan was a socialist. Who knew.

Phylo out.

Buffett
Prager: "...and moderate liberal supporters of the Democratic Party are beginning to question leftist ideas. Some examples:

"Warren Buffett, billionaire Obama supporter: “You can’t expect people to unite behind you if you're trying to jam a bunch of things down their throat.”



Buffett also said:

"He is the right president. And incidentally, this is the right country. I mean, we've got the right president, we've got the right country. You know, we're gummed up at the moment, but this is the place to be. And this is the right time. I mean, I wish I was 21 now instead of 78. So this is--the best days of America really do lie ahead. And President Obama is--he's very, very smart. He's got, I think, exactly the right goals. He's articulate and I--you know, he will be the right person to be the commander in chief in this economic crisis. But it is an economic crisis."

(http://www.cnbc.com/id/29596605/page/2/)



Cognitive dissonance
This column (except for the liberal bashing) is the polar opposite of what you hear on right wing radio these days. All you hear Hannity and Limbaugh and Prager talk about is how dire things are and how Obama is making it all worse. They seem to be cheering the market down because they are hoping Obama fails. If the market goes up, they ignore it. If it goes down, it's all Obama's fault.

It seems right wing radio hosts have convinced themselves, and are trying to convince their listeners, that the downturn in the market is the result of people not having confidence in the market. It's true that there is a lack of confidence, but Obama didn't CAUSE that. The lack of confidence is due to the fact that sales and profits are down so companies are laying off workers or going out of business. The lack of confidence is not the CAUSE of the economic downturn, It's a symptom of it.

It's utterly preposterous to blame the economic condition on Obama, who has been in office 5 weeks, and has had no chance to show how his policies will work. Hardly any of the stimulus money has been spent yet, and nearly every expert agrees that it will create or save at least 3.5 million jobs.

GDP fell 6.2% in the last quarter of George Bush's reign of error. And that is the direct result of Republican malfeasance and incompetence. Obama inherited this mess. Give the guy a chance to fix it.

Ellen
"We label people--
Liberals/Conservatives/Evangelicals/Atheists/Republicans/Democrats/rednecks/RINO's/etc. (obviously I could go on and on)--and fail to see other as complex human beings. Our country is in a crisis right now. We need to stop the name calling and finger pointing. We need to find common ground and listen to each other. We all have something to learn and together we will prevail."


Amen, Ellen!!

TX gal
Thank you!

I didn't hear that part of the interview. I watched Chris Matthews last night and he only played the part where Buffet was saying the president needs to be clearer about the direction.

It's so typical of Prager to quote selectively like that. He actually used that quote by Buffet to "prove" that former supporters of Obama are regretting their decision.

Of course, Prager will tell you that he has no agenda. Noooo, not Prager. The "liberal media" are biased, but not Dennis.

Good to know there are some intelligent Texans down there.

I Thought It Naive, Dennis
To anyone who thinks there will be a return to pre-Obama and there is always a silver lining, had better wake up quickly. And for anyone who doesn't like what BHO is doing and could not think that we would be going left is goofy and didn't read or understand what BHO was all about. It will get much worse and I cannot forsee anything that will stop it. We Americans are not made of the same substance that caused the tea party, did a Paul Revere, crossed the Delaware, etc. We have turned into followers, eager to get it now, no matter the price. After BHO gets through there are very significant things that will happen and like an incurable cancer will creep will never return to the pre-cancer days. Are ye daft. There is no silver lining here. Get accustomed to heading left. BHO will continue to hammer on people who talk against him or his programs and he will attempt to isolate them. Hitler and Stalin tactics. Didn't learn that in government school? Government schools teach that which the government permits.

New GOP Leader
Pat Buchanan's return to the GOP is yet another silver lining. Forces of Nature need to be in the thick of the battle, not far removed from it.

Pat has been like Achilleus of Old, sulking as it were in his tent. No more. It doesn't even matter anymore what the original grievance was. Something has stirred Buchanan up.

That says something about the shape we are in.

Matt Miller also has something to say about the shape we're in. Come to think of it, President Obama does not limit his reading to articles that flatter him. He has the ability, in one second, to say or do something that could really, really change the world--and that includes the world of perceptions.

There is a reality out there, as Bill Kristol noted. Then, there is the blabbering.


Ellen
I'll second that Amen from TX gal.

Phylo
All I saw in the news yesterday was about how Buffett said the economy had fallen off a cliff, etc., so I decided to read through some of the transcripts. I didn't see the interview. I thought that quote sounded very positive about the future. It makes me mad that they are taking certain quotes here on TH and saying "see, Buffett is having second thoughts about his support for Obama."

BTW, what does "Phylo Se Fiser" mean? I actually googled it one time thinking I would get some kind of translation, but didn't run across anything.



Optimism
Even though I lack your optimism, Dennis, it's amazing how clear and reasonable your thinking can be when you avoid going off on your religious tangent. By the same token, it's always amazing how unclear and unreasonable your thinking is when you're on a religious kick. Why not try to resolve this disconnect in favor of the clear and reasonable?

I know the third-world well, especially Latin America. This last year, while watching the American political and financial scene, I've become convinced that we've declined into banana-republic status. Perhaps we were never really any better, but have been grossly fooled all along by the Harvard and Yale graduates.

Where are the true leaders hiding? I certainly did not see one of them among the recent slate of Republican presidential candidates. And don't say "Jindal" to me!

There is no hope.

Ain't what you know, Dennis
DP: "Given how many of these people were highly educated Ivy League graduates, more and more Americans may come to realize that Harvard and Yale turn out at least as many fools (perhaps more given their high incidence of arrogance) than San Diego State University or Long Island University. For years I have been urging listeners to my radio show to send their children to less expensive colleges with reputations for quality (of which this country has many) rather than mortgage their homes or raid their retirement funds to pay for high-priced colleges that offer equal or inferior instruction but more “prestige.”"

The primary value of an Ivy League education is in the contacts you make. If you can call on your friend "W," you are going to get the job that vastly more qualified candidates can only dream of. Remember "Brownie"?

Good grief.

First to GGSS in California... and the little video you linked.

At best, mediocre. It shows nothing that most of us did not know before.

Because it is only HALF the story.

In other words, it conveniently leaves out any and all of the horrid details about the collosal failure of our government without whose "aid"... NONE of this mess would have happened. Barf.

Second to Jon also in (surprise) California.

Let me refer you to a commentary by Jonah Goldberg where he illustrates the blatant dishonesty of Obama by asking us to imagine the following.

Suppose your child falls down a well. Then suppose that I offer you the use of my brand new ladder... but ONLY if you agree to paint my house.

So... do I want Obama to fail?

The ugly truth is... our founding fathers would want Obama to fail!

And me???

I only want him to resign the presidency.

Good grief.



silver lining
Americans will get through this and elect a DECENT President in 2012. Obama's 50th day in office is today and his presidency has already failed. All he's capable of is throwing money at problems because he is incapable of an original thought. All of his thoughts come from Ayers, "Rev." Wright, Stalin, Marx, Pelosi and Reed. He is the United States' Hitler. I'd love to see that idiot impeached.

we are america we will survive
we can accomplish anything in this country and we will.

i find it interesting that those who claim to believe deeply in this country are so quick to speak of doom and gloom because their political philosophy failed and the american people asked for something different.

obama has been very clear that he knows he will lose the next election if his policies don't work.

but.....

they are starting to work.

i own a small business related to the construction industry.
money from the stimulus package has made it to our school districts already and jobs that had been stopped or deferred are back up and running.

i now have more work than i can handle and many who were laid off are going back to work.
my nephew is a union electrician and was called back to work after 9 months off.

there are thousands of people interviewing and being hired for the census in my area.
those jobs pay 17 dollars an hour and last for 2 years.

jobs are being created and construction is up and running.

now, of course, these are only anecdotal, but i ask you to look around your community and i think you will see crews on construction sites again.

slowly but surely the ship is turning.

What's wrong with spreading the wealth?
The right wing seems to ignore the fact that for capitalism and free markets to work, you need lots of customers who have money to buy things. The problem with a system that concentrates wealth in the hands of the few is that when the majority of people earn less, they buy less, and that prevents the economy from moving forward.

Henry Ford paid his early assembly line workers $5 a day, twice the going rate for factory labor at that time. This set a precident for paying workers enough to buy the products they were making, which meant more demand, and and more employees making good wages to go out and buy other items.

I am not suggesting spreading wealth to those who contribute nothing to society, but does everyone who earns $5 million a year really work 100 times harder or contribute 100 times as much as anyone making $50,000 a year? If the guy making $5 million cut his salary to $500,000 and gave his 99 employees a $9,600 raise, his lifestyle would barely be affected, but his employess would have an extra $5000 after taxes to improve their lifestyles, spending money and stimulating the economy.

TX gal
Phylo Se Fiser is a name I made up to poke fun at myself as an amateur philosopher.

Good call, reading the transcript. I'm sure Dennis will read these comments. But I can promise you that he will not correct the record on his show. In fact, if history is any guide, he will continue to repeat the lie that Warren Buffet has regrets about supporting Obama. His job is to do whatever possible to lower Obama's and the Democrats' approval ratings. And, as someone once said, it's very difficult to get someone to see the truth of something when their job depends on them not seeing it.





George Washington said this ...
"The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves; whether they are to have any property they can call their own; whether their Houses, and Farms, are to be pillaged and destroyed, and they consigned to a State of Wretchedness from which no human efforts will probably deliver them. The fate of unborn Millions will now depend, under God, on the Courage and Conduct of this army" –

Gen. George Washington, to his troops before the battle of Long Island

http://www.oath-keepers.blogspot.com/

interesting article Mr. Prager
Love your radio show also and listen to it when I can. I think no matter what we'll get through these tough times. Let's just hope the market stops plummeting, but with our massive spending spree it will be hard to rebound, especially if the market continues to drop. But we are Americans, and have endured worse. We'll endure Obama.

ellen et al
Common ground..funny there was no common ground when it came to the last administration, in fact it's still Bush's fault..I think that when the Battle of Armageddon starts it will still be Bush's fault. And having said that, Bush lost me, and Independent Conservative, when he went Dem lite with his spending, the Borders and jailing of the Border agents.
I will NEVER have anything in common with people who think abortion is a search and destroy mission, whatever form it takes, in utero, born by mistake or embryonic stem cell.
I will NEVER have anything in common with people, party or erstwhile president working his
god penumbra that are determined to destroy this REPUBLIC..I agree with Cicero's comments
regarding traitors .."moved amongst those whihint the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling though all the alleys, heard in the very halls of gernment itself." and the rest of his statement. As true today as when he uttered them.

For the Gipper
Phylo you sound as blind as you claim Dennis is. You must admit (if honest) that he's sincere in his beliefs if nothing else. I'm sure he'd be happy to back up his position if you ventured to call him.

Strawmen Plenty
Phylo: As far as I know, most of the talk show hosts include Prager are not claiming that Obama is the cause of this crisis. They simply argue against his solutions. And to aid in combating your prejudicial tendency, there are PLENTY of smart people in Texas.

Second, Dennis' job is to make commentary of certain events. The notion that there is a correlation between approval ratings and listener ratings is absurd, or else Prager would have been out of a job in the last 3 years of Bush's Presidency.

Dan: Who are you, and under what basis do you have to make the contention that one has made "enough" money and should therefore give it to other people to balance things out? Are you insinuating that those rich folks didn't earn what they now earn? Is your 500k cap universal or do you take into account regional standards of living and purchasing power? Where did you get this 500k cap? I'd like to see some research.

I am not suggesting that every single rich person earned or deserve the income they have. I would like to instead combat this prejudicial attitude you seem to have with the wealthy. I'm sure that if I were to say that all these poor folks making less than 15k are a year are nothing but lazy deadbeats leeching off the welfare state you would take issue with it.

Dan
Do you want to spread the wealth. Go ahead - spread your own. I'd like to decide what to do with mine.

Sam
I have sent Dennis hundreds of e-mails trying to correct things that he has said that are wrong. He has not answered one of my e-mails. This is despite the fact that I title them so as to indicate that I am correcting erroneous information. So, no, I do not think he is sincere. I think he knows full well that he is putting out erroneous information. I've tried giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I can't anymore. He doesn't deserve it. He has proven to me that he is not a man of integrity or candor. He has an agenda. His agenda is to diminish the liberals and the left.

Today on his show, his guest pointed out that one of the big problems is that, in 2003, the five biggest banks convinced the Bush administration to allow them to leverage themselves 30 to 1. (They used to only be able to leverage 10 to 1.) This is how they were allowed to get into such trouble.

The fact that this almost totally contradicts what he has said over the last few months about the financial crisis didn't even seem to occur to him. It was as if he never heard what the man said.

The thing about Prager is that he totally ignores information that contradicts his most deeply held values and opinions. Maybe you think he does so honestly, but my experience with the man tells me different.


Ron Bacardi
Yesterday Hugh Hewitt had on some "analyst". Hugh asked the analyst how much the downturn in the stock market is due to Obama. The "analyst" responded by saying "I think a great deal."

Limbaugh and Hannity have said, repeatedly over the last few weeks, that Obama is tanking the market, and that the drop is due to the fact that the market has no confidence in Obama.

Of course, today, the market is up four percent.

There are two ways to take this:

Either the market suddenly changed it's mind about Obama.

Or the changes in the stock market have almost NOTHING to do with Obama's policies.

Either way, Limbaugh, Hannity, and Hewitt are wrong.

Don't hold your breath waiting for them to correct their thinking. They don't do that. Which is why they are such lousy thinkers.

Phylo
So the market has to decline every day for it to be connected to Obama? That's a nice safe theory to stand behind if you're an Obamanoid.

Vman
Could it be that the market is not reacting to Obama so much as the numbers they see in terms of profits and so forth?

That is my argument.

Reader
Most of my wealth is being spread already. It's called "living expenses." But give me a big raise and I'll happily support the economy by doing some much-needed home improvements.

Tax cuts don't do enough because there a too many low-income people who pay few taxes anyway, and beyond a certain point of wealth more income doesn't increase spending that stimulated the economy.

But if you were to "spread the wealth," then wealthy people WOULD invest more into business ventures that cater to low-to-middle income people who would then have more minry to spend.

BTW, Prager does NOT read the comments to his columns. Every time he writes a column on same sex marriage/Prop 8 he says he sees little or no hate speech directed at gays or same-sex marriage supporters, yet the comments to these columns are teeming with it.


SILVER....
Perhaps conservatives will wake up, stand up, and return the majority. Liberal repubs need to be flushed from the capital.

Dan
So let me get this straight:
"But if you were to "spread the wealth," then wealthy people WOULD invest more into business ventures that cater to low-to-middle income people who would then have more minry to spend."

Care to cite some specific examples?

So if I am reading this properly:
1. Take money from a wealthy person.
2. That wealthy person would invest more.

I want to make sure I've got this logic correct...

NOTHING NEW
"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled,
public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should
be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands
Should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again
learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."
--Cicero, 55 BC



AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO ROME !


Phylo Se Fiser
Wealth creation -- from the lower economic class?

I wish this media could project laughter in its fullest form.

I grew up lower middle class - dad was a cook, mom was a waitress. Mom and Dad did not work if their employers, business owners, could not afford to hire them. At one point, my dad got into a blackjack game that was BIG and he won big. He was a card counter and very good at 21. He took the money and started his own restaurant. He had a lot of business. Mom and he were both very popular in the community and had a loyal cadre of fans who woudl follow them from restaurant to restaurant. But he ran out of money eventually. I asked my folks why and they explained to me that taxes were what sunk the restaurant. In the early 1960s businesses were heavily taxed and, then as now, business owners were taxed according to what their business made rather than what they took home personally. Dad couldn't pay the taxes and feed us too, so eventually, he let the business go.

Dad's shot at becoming middle class was extinguished because the government took too much of his money. Now, Dad was rare. Most lower-income people never own their own business. They just can't get together the necessary capital without going into debt (that's very important as debt sinks most businesses these days), so they don't have the capacity for wealth creation.

Therefore, they have to get it from somewhere else.

Philo - Wealth Creation Pt 2
My dad died a long time ago, but I know other business owners today who are saying that 39% tax rates mean their profit margin is going to be too narrow to expand. They might stay in business, but they aren't hiring anyone new.

So, the gov't takes their money and gives it to some guy who is sitting on his couch drinking beer and -- what does he do with it? Maybe he buys more beer (Cinda McCain wouldn't object, I suppose). But that money could have gone directly from my friend the business owner into the pocket of someone who wanted a job. And, maybe that guy who wanted a job would have eventually saved enough money to turn around and create another business employing more people. Instead, you just have beer rather than productivity. How does that create wealth?

A business owner makes hard choices
A friend of mine just laid off 10 workers. Why? His business is doing okay. He's in a part of the country where the recession hasn't really hit. How come he's laying off workers?

His tax rates are about to take a big jump, to 39.5%, I believe it is. He sat down with his accountant and a adding machine and realized that his profit margin would be reduced by 75% in the next year if he didn't make some adjustments to his business. So, he made two decisions. One, he decided not to offer health insurance to the families of his employees (he'd had that in works for two years and it was going into effect this summer, but it's no more). Two, he laid off 10 workers (a third of his employees).

Those two moves alone will reduce that profit margin reduction to 40% and he thinks he can stay in business for a while if he does that.

My friend lives in a typical middle-class home of about 2300 sq ft. There are no extravagant cars, furs or jewelry in his life. His kids go to UAF, not Harvard. His business, however, earns a little more than $250,000 a year. He makes about $50,000 a year, taken from the profit. His investors get dividends back from the profit. Taxes are on the whole profit. So what's he supposed to do. Tell his family they're moving to a trailer court and walking to work? Tell his investors they aren't getting paid?

A business must make a profit or it cannot stay in business. When we talk about "soaking the rich" most of the time, it's the small business owner we're talking about and he doesn't look any more rich than any of the rest of us. What we're doing is taking away his means of making a living -- and, so, he fires people and makes other cost cutting moves that "trickle down" to the rest of us and make us all poorer.

See the light
Phylo,
It would be poor logic to make any concusion based on the markets movement, especially for one day. The fact that Dennis airs opposing evidence and opinions speaks volumes for his credentials. Do you expect him to give up his position based on one guests opinion and anecdotal evidence? All one has to do is look at his mass appeal to know that he is a great one, and that is why you listen to him everyday! He used to be a liberal until he saw the light, when will you?

AW
I can't see how virtually all businesses can avoid spiraling down to nothing if taxes have become this dire and there is no relief. Your friend's business's customers are also, presumably, being stalked by the layoff reaper. Result, less business coming in the door. Wash, rinse, repeat.

PM
Charity always, ALWAYS works better when it is private.

Dough filled with spinach and baked
It shows that yes, even a dead cat can bounce, or that it feels so good when the constant hammering on your head stops for a moment.

not bad
The question is who's wealth is it. If I created it they are my marbles. Why does anyone want to take what is mine from me. Sharing is good, but I would like to choose those that I share my wealth with and who is in the game with me. Taking is bad. You taking mine and choosing where it must go is the worst form of theft since I must watch you misuse my marbles. Those that can will soon take their marbles and go play some where else. I will not tell you what to do with your marbles, sharing yes. Taking NO. As an accountant I see the whole game and only keep score. You will never legislate morality or outlaw stupidity.

More scapegoating of businessmen
"Most of those people produced nothing of worth and believed in economic nonsense. A large number of people making millions of dollars a year were proficient at only one thing -- making millions of dollars a year."

You socons just cannot let go of your resentment of capitalism, can you? You always have to get your little sniping in. What do you mean they "produced nothing of worth?" Who are you to judge the value of what they are doing? You may have had no need for their financial products, but plenty did. If these things are "nothing of worth," then why were these people "making millions of dollars a year"?

I hope you don't now say that it has been shown to be false wealth, because then I would have to remind you that conservatism's position is that the government caused the crisis, and that had government not intervened (in myriad ways), the market would be just fine.

I say again: THE GOVERNMENT CAUSED THE CRISIS. The victims should not be blamed. How hard is that to grasp? Do you blame rape victims too?

And what a bunch of tripe about gratitude. Gratitude is not a core virtue.

aurorawatcher
first your friend is misinformed.

the tax rate you quote was what it was under clinton for those making over 1 million.

it didn't seem to stop businesses from expanding in the 90's.

second, those tax cuts have not even been established yet.

next, as a business owner, i have had to find other ways to cut my overhead without firing people.if your friend could not do the same, he is not an astute businessman.


Phylo
The market went up today because Bernanke announced that the mark-to-market rule should be suspended, and also that the uptick rule should be restored.

The market would have gone up even more if the market had more confidence that Obama would implement these suggestions soon, but there is skepticism out there. So, no, it still had nothing to do with confidence in Obama or his policies.

Rule of thumb: Big move in the market--Look for some official change in the mark-to-market policy.

Wrong Direction of Cause
The Governments need and ability to Take Money (Our Time and Expertise) on the Percentage Basis has been driven through the use of the 1913 Act -

The Federal Reserve has over and over again manipulated the money supply and credit markets to create these Mega bubbles.

Beyond that, you guys are pointing to Effects, not causes. Abolish the Federal Reserve and you will have normal Business Cycles where the bubbles aren't nearly as big and you will never have Too Big To Fail.

As well, abolish the IRS who Kills "Community and Commonality" and we will have people very able and willing to assist their neighbors when needed and asked for.

Come one folks, it isn't that damn difficult. If Warren Buffett wants to talk on tv about being taxed too little, then he can get off his own damn wallet and give as much as he wants of his money to whomever he would like. Beyond that, STFU - all he did was step into this investment realm at the right time and recognized the demographic changes with the Congressional changes and rode that wave.

Hats off to him, but he isn't that smart - as his current results are showing. Historically Recognized as the most famous, he is, the Best...absolutely not. He, like Soros implore the Feds to put up barriers to entry (called Regulations) and are now "Liberals" once they have made fortunes.


Sage Prager
Ah, Dennis Prager. How often have I listened to your show with interest and more than a bit of befuddlement. You speak of how liberals act on emotions and conservatives on fact. Of course, that's nonsense. Partisans of both stripes act on emotions, and not fact. You only have to peruse the comments sections of this site to find that. I know, I know, you will now label me part of the "angry left" for disagreeing with you. Let's see. You say financial types are fools for supporting those left of center. Of course, those guys did very well during the Clinton administration. The failed policies of Bush have now left them bankrupt. I don't expect you to agree with me, or even to pretend that I have a point. Rather, I hope we can at least agree that unregulated capitalism has left us less rich, less safe and less stable.

Our Founding Fathers are....
turning over in their graves. We rebelled against elitist royals and taxes yet we have:

Self annointed royalists, democrat and republican, whose only claim is attending an overpriced overrated Ivy league institution.

Elitists who pass or lobby for legislation that favors one constituent group at the expense of another and we just nod saying “my,my isn’t that nice”, becoming a reflection of the self serving elitist. Instead of asking what is best for our nation as a whole we say I got mine and I could care less if you got yours. I personally know of family friends whose net worth is over $5 million, yet they are collecting social security and medicare.

In closing I quote:

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by
legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing
it." Dr. Adrian Rogers, 1931



occam
So, what does ones networth have to do with collecting Social Security and Medicare? I am assuming they are of age - and it is what the government instructed them to do. They certainly didn't have a choice to not put IN to the system. Why would you suggest that they cannot or should not take OUT of the system?

Simple Jealousy, is it any better than over-greedy? I don't think so.

Das Ram.....
Jealously no. They succeeded in achieving the American dream. Kudos to them. They are self-sufficient and should not be drawing s.s. and mmedicare/medicaid. The orginal purpose of social security and medicare not an investment pool for future withdrawals. The same people who chastise government taxation are, for the most part, planning on receving s.s and/or medicare even if they can afford not to, i.e. ...I got mine, I could care less if you got yours...putting self interest above the common good of our nation. Due to such attitudes S.S and medicare/medicaid will bankrupt this country in the future and that is not even considering the trillions borrowed by Bush and Obama nor the fraud in the S.S. and medicare/medicaid system.

Americans, have become passive slaves to S.S. and medicare/medicaid, instead of self-sufficient. Just like they are becoming passive slaves to government.

Yes, I pay into the S.S. and medicare/medicaid debacle, but I am fortunate that I have many years ahead of me to financially plan my retirement to where I am self-sufficient and not looking for a government hand out.

Can you say Socialist?
Don't be shocked, but in my Country, you IS one and don't deny it.

You are also either ignorant or believe we are. Your perception on SS is completely based on your current Liberal views and has nothing to do with the documentation of why FDR stuck SS into the New Deal - the Beginning of the End!


OCCAM - Partially correct
The only part of what you said as being correct was it really wasn't for those heading into retirement as the statistics show that life expectancy was lower than the age of attainment when benefits would be made available!

More Leftist Crap! For the Good Of the People...hog wash!

And YOU are part of the problem, not the solution.

First, it was Voluntary and only a Percent, then it grew and grew, till LBJ couldn't keep his stinkin hands off the Surpluses and didn't calculate for Longevity!@

Take from someone who YOU DEEM DOESN'T NEED IT! Go ahead and post your address, along with Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank and Harry Reid -- whenever all you numbnuts aren't home or if you have some extra cash laying around or your pool is open and you're not enjoying it, we will just come by at our leisure and relieve you of those Unnecessary Assets that you just don't need!

IDIOTS!

Thanks, Dennis
I needed that. Badly.

Incurring Debt
I don't see how the vast majority of the American public is going to learn not to incur debt. It seems that these days, incurring debt is the smart thing to do! Have your cake and eat it, too. It's okay to buy a house that you have no hopes of affording, because Santabama is going to help you out!

My guess: credit card companies are next.

I agree with looking for the silver lining, but I don't think people learning wise spending is going to be one of them. Not when we're subsidizing it.

Mike
We haven't had 'unregulated capitalism'. We've got plenty of regulation of our system of economy, and when Bush tried to get more regulation on Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, Dodd, Frank, and Obama BLOCKED it. Now these 2 govt. groups are failing, just because there were not enough watch-dogs to sound an alarm. Bush saw the coming problems, the dems did not. Now we all suffer.
But, in the past decade, we have had countless unfunded mandates from the Fed govt to pay for illegal aliens (from all over the world) - to pay for their education, their medical care, their emergency medical care, their car insurance, their legal fees, their food stamps and welfare, and to give them free money.
This is NOT 'capitalism', this is forced communism. This money came out of our taxes, not thin air, nor off trees. WE the taxpayer subsidized these people, who did not make any money, or enough money to pay for all these benefits for themselves. That is not capitalism.
If we had had real capitalism, these greedy freeloaders would not be here, and if they were, they would be self-supporting.

Examples
"Care to cite some specific examples?

So if I am reading this properly:
1. Take money from a wealthy person.
2. That wealthy person would invest more.

I want to make sure I've got this logic correct... "

Sure! A wealthy person sees that the people he sells his products & services to are earning more and are interested in buying more of his products & services, so he invests in his business, buys more equipment & hires more people.

This is the opposite of what is happening today. Business owners don't see business improving, so they scale back and try to hold onto what cash they have. The very wealthy don't see many promising investment opportunities right now, so they're not investing - at least not into businesses that produce jobs.

So what is your solution? If you make $500,000 per year after taxes and Obama'a tax increase knocks you down to $480,000 a year after taxes, it's not like you have to cut back on your lifestyle at all. But if people making $50,000 have an hundred or two per month to spend due to a tax cut, the wealthy people would invest more in business to take advantage of it, which will lead to more people making about $50,000.

It's spealled "FRAUD"
"You socons just cannot let go of your resentment of capitalism, can you? You always have to get your little sniping in. What do you mean they "produced nothing of worth?" Who are you to judge the value of what they are doing? You may have had no need for their financial products, but plenty did. If these things are "nothing of worth," then why were these people "making millions of dollars a year"?"

How did Bernie Madoff make millions per year? FRAUD, not by producing anything of value.

While mortgages and securities based on them are things of value, they were misrepresented. There's nothing wrong with risky investments, but they must be represeted as such when they are sold. If you sell high risk securities but represent them as low risk, you are misleading your customers. The entire real estate industry bought into this fraud because they thought it wouldn't end, just like a Blackjack player in Vegas who thinks his winning streak won't end.

Good for nothings on wall street
I've been telling people for years that all those "geniuses" in their $3000 suits provide no true value to our society. Same for going to a good public university over the Ivies. At the end of the 4 years you'll be about $150,000 less in debt too.

Donna
Yeah, I've heard that talk radio talking point. Unfortunately, the whole Fannie Mae deal accounts for only a small part of the mess we're in. Yes, I know, this doesn't jibe with the right-wing propaganda. Oh yeah, the poor people trying to get homes also did not do us in. Another lie. Who told you Bush saw this coming? Was it the guys who famously had a press conference in the early 2000s where they brought out a chain saw to symbolize the end of lending regulation? What, Dennis Prager didn't talk about that. Shocking. I'm sorry my dear, you've been sold a bill of goods by people who have convinced you it's your patriotic duty to early 1/500th of what your bosses make. And communism? Give me a break. A three-point up tick on taxes for people who would never give you the time of day? No, that's not communism. I don't expect you to agree with me. I can only hope that you will at least try to educate yourself just a little bit.

WHAT?????
"A wealthy person sees that the people he sells his products & services to are earning more and are interested in buying more of his products & services, so he invests in his business, buys more equipment & hires more people."

1: Just curious, have you ever owned a business? I have, and I know what it is like when my employees make more per hour than I did. I don't begrudge them that because they were also my friends, but
every time we added an employee, the amount that my wife and I took home went down. We should have stayed as a 2 person company. Does that tell you anything?

2: If you tax away my profits, how do I make the profit necessary to invest? Profit is the gasoline that the economy runs on and ALL OF IT comes from private business. 100% OF IT. GOVERNMENT CREATES NONE OF IT! GET IT STRAIGHT!

Take your meds and go to bed. I know that liberals legally are adults, but that is only black ink on white paper. In reality, you have 7th grade minds. Let the adults make the decisions!



tkdblk
Good little talk radio reply there. Yes, I am a "producer" as you right-wing nutjobs like to say (yeah, I know, only a few of you have actually read Ayn Rand, but now seem to identify with her). No one is going to tax you out of business. The Bush doctrine of neglect may mean that you pay more for health care, I suppose. Still, despite all you your fancy radio learnin', no proposal out there will tax you beyond your means. Please, even if you hate me, educate yourself. You're being played by folks who earn 100 times what you do and don't give a hoot if you survive. I know conservatives are technically adults. But, after the last eight years of neglect, I'm not so sure. So, stroke your gun. Pray to Rush. And, for the love of God, turn off the radio and educate yourself.

little liberal Mike
The liberal path is leading to the demise of this country. Groupthink won't save us as Mike implies. The little liberals want to silence the radio so there is no way to discount their B.S.. God help us.

sam
"The liberal path is leading to the demise of this country. Groupthink won't save us as Mike implies. The little liberals want to silence the radio so there is no way to discount their B.S.. God help us."

Yes, because the last eight years of conservative rule have left us in such great shape. And, by the way, no one wants to silence talk radio. That is a myth the radio heads keep trying to sell to drum you all up into a frenzy. They're conning you to keep an audience. For all I care, you can listen to that drivel all day. But it won't make you're point of view any more correct.

The sky is falling
One Correction, it's the BIG liberals whose primary agenda is to silence (Conservative) talk radio. Little liberals like Mike don't want to acknowledge the fact, but Pelosi and her gang are up to plenty of no good. And if they have their way we'll have guns regulated out of existence (except for criminals and worse) {why? one must ask.} As Mexico has.
So don't believe for a minute that no one wants to silence conservative talk radio, anymore than no one wants to take away guns, but the sky is falling just ask Al Gore... (he invented the internet ya know)

Mike in MO
GW was no conservative, he was very moderate. We had eight years of moderate rule.

What kind of path do you advocate? Are you a supporter of these fascist restrictions on free speech in your state?

http://www.kansascity.com/116/story/1086524.html

Fairness Doctrine? What about Missouri state police lists that identify private citizens as 'potential terrorists' because of their bumper stickers?

http://www.americandailyreview.com/home-features-articles-b log/2009/3/18/missouri-political-enemies-list.html
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.