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Tuesday, July 22, 2008
Dennis Prager :: Townhall.com Columnist
Will Israel Attack Iran?
by Dennis Prager
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It is difficult to imagine Israel attacking Iran.

It is, however, more difficult to imagine Israel not attacking Iran.

Consider three questions:

First, does Iran mean what it says about destroying Israel? When its leaders repeatedly call for Israel's annihilation, after referring to it as a cancer and using other rhetoric not heard on a national level since the Nazi regime's depiction of Jews, is this just rhetorical flourish? Or do they really hope and plan to destroy Israel?

Second, can Iran do it? One can hope and even plan to do something outrageous, but that does not necessarily mean that one can accomplish it. So, the second question is whether Iran can destroy Israel or at least murder a high enough percentage of its population and destroy enough of its infrastructure to enable surrounding Arab states to invade and do the rest of the job that the majority of Arabs favor (even if some of their governments have a peace treaty with Israel).

It seems to me that the answers to the first two questions are so obvious that any burden of proof rests on those who argue otherwise. Do they think Iranian leaders are bluffing? Why would these leaders bluff? And why would one think they are bluffing given their faith-based hatred of Israel? I write "faith-based" not to argue that Islam necessarily demands the destruction of the Jewish state, but because that is what the Iranian leaders believe Islam demands.

Iran is ruled by people who believe it is God's will to destroy the Jewish state. It is also a country rapidly acquiring the ability to use nuclear weapons to achieve this goal -- through direct attack, handing nuclear weapons to terrorists or both.

There has never been a hatred as deep as Jew-hatred nor is there one today. And hatred of the Jewish state is similarly unparalleled. The depth of Iran's hatred for Israel was made evident again last week in a story from the Olympic swim trials in Croatia. The Iranian government ordered its athlete not to participate when it learned that one of the other swimmers was a Jew from Israel. There are no nationals other than Israeli Jews with whom nationals of another nation would refuse to enter a swimming pool.

This unique hatred explains why the forms of deterrence that have worked in the past do not seem applicable to the Iranian regime. The most obvious one, the one that rendered nuclear war highly improbable during the Cold War, was MAD, Mutually Assured Destruction. MAD was so simple a child could understand it: You bomb me; I bomb you. Our people die en masse; your people die en masse. No matter how vile the Soviet regime was, MAD worked because Soviet leaders wanted to live.

But MAD works only with the sane.

We regard a defining element of sanity as the desire to live. And we regard a defining element of morality as the valuing of human life. Neither applies to Islamists such as those who govern Iran. Their motto, as so often expressed by its Hamas and Hezbollah allies, is "We value death as much as you [Jews, Americans, Westerners in general] value life." For people like Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the vision of millions of Iranian Muslims dying from a counterstrike while Israel burns is not frightening; it is a necessary sacrifice.

If the answers to the first two questions are as clearly in the affirmative as I have argued, the only remaining question is whether Israel or anyone else can stop these plans from materializing.

The one nonviolent way of doing so is sanctions. A worldwide vise of economic, social and political sanctions against the Iranian regime should be tried and might work. That is certainly my first choice and, one presumes, Israel's as well.

But it now appears unlikely that the world is willing to suffocate the Iranian regime as it did the South African apartheid regime. Iran has oil; South Africa had none. Iran has worldwide support from Muslim regimes, which do not threaten a fellow Muslim regime, especially over its being too anti-Israel; South Africa had virtually no such allies. Iran has almost automatic support from at least two Security Council members, Russia and China; South Africa had no equivalent support. And much of the world is more exercised about white racism against blacks than about genocidal threats against Jews.

Therefore, if the world does not unite in ostracizing the Iranian regime, there remains only one other way to stop it from attempting to destroy Israel -- destroy its nuclear facilities.

There are strong arguments against Israel doing so. But if Israel believes that Iran will soon have the ability to attack it with nuclear weapons, and that Iran will do so, it is difficult to argue that Israel wait and run the risk of experiencing another Holocaust.

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About The Author
Dennis Prager is a radio show host, contributing columnist for Townhall.com, and author of 4 books including Happiness Is a Serious Problem: A Human Nature Repair Manual.
 
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A coordinated attack on the facilities:
A well coordinated on Iran's Nuclear reactors would set back Iran's attempt to obtain a nuclear weapon more than ten years.

We (the United States) could do this now, or wait until an Iranian nuclear missile hits Tel-Aviv.

An interesting phrase
How often leftists, like Robert, have started using the phrase "sovereign nation" lately!

"Agrarian reformer" was the foreign-policy phrase of choice for Leftists during the Cold War. It meant "Puppet of Moscow who hates America and Israel almost as much as American leftists do."

"Soveriegn nation" seems to be the new, corresponding code phrase for "Islamo-dystopias which hate America and Israel almost as much as American leftists do."

Still, it's nice to find a subject on which Buchananites and Code Pinkos can agree. I expect the former will be along any minute now.

I hope so
Israel will eventually have to do the job, because we apparently do not have the stones to do so. I will cheer them on. Sadly, if it does have any effect on American troops in the region, the blame for that will lie primarily with Iran, and secondarily on Bush and the neocons for prissing, tippy-toeing nation-building in an irrelevant neighboring country. They were told from the outset to target Iran, and they refused.

God help us

Hitler made up a bunch of excuses for his preventative wars also. Funny what people will let their leaders do for an illusion of safety.

.......
---since we cannot apparantly
prove that the Iranians are working on a bomb...Robert----

Stupid little man, they don't deny their nuclear aspirations, they boast about them.

.........
----Hitler made up a bunch of excuses for his preventative wars also.-----

Another intellectual retard from the left babbling the vapid tripe of moral equivalence.

Rattler 29 and ilk. Losers everywhere
These people are ususally offering vile anti Christian homosexual militant rants. Check out Star Parkers recent column and Pragers recent marriage column.

The same bunch rolls in and never debates, just attacks, and tries to intimidate. Rattler is a joke, an anti Christian America hater who changes themes like underwear. There is no need to be nice these people,all of them have no credibility.

They hate consevatives and will do anything, anything, to help that cause along. All of them are militant homosexuals probably using several names. On the marriage column one of them was caught out right lying about who he was. Alpha Omega.


How Long Would You Wait
under the same circumstance if your family and friends were threatened in the same way?

Israel
not only will but should take out Iran's nuke capability. As a pretty smart guy once said, "I'm on the side of Israel because God's on the side of Israel...I know which team I want to be on." We are doing what we have to do...we can't expect Israel to sit back and wait for the Iranian tyrant to get his hands on nukes...I don't think we should either.

Islamists value death
So, give them something of value. I have never been big on boots on the ground. As far as I am concerned, bombs work wonders. Appeasement has never worked.

Iraq agrees with Obama that we should be out of there. Fine by me; but I never want another American soldier lost there. Next time, flatten the cities with bombs.

Dems, Repubs, liberals, conservatives can all save their breath and typing skill on me with any lectures on morals. My desire to act morally with Islamists ended on 9/11.

Amen Summers!
Maybe one well placed Israeli nuke on Tehran will give many deserving Irani's their 72 virgins! Why bother with losing valuble pilots and aircraft! The nut job whose name I cannot spell or pronounce, you KNOW who I mean, should be in town when this happens to experience first hand what he has promised to Israel

sad sad sad
Prager left out that Ahmadinejad also said he was willing to sacrifice the Palestinians who would be so close to Israel that they would also be hit. Talk about true love and support. Wouldn't you want him for your ally?(sarc)

I don't see the present leader of Israel doing it. So is the first preemptive attack going to be by Tzippy who replaces Olmert for his corruption? How's that for women's lib? Two possibly strong women leaders of Israel in times of war?
Has Israel gotten so used to sitting in their homes and being bombed that they are going to let this happen? Are they so worried about Europe and whether it will think badly of them, guaranteed, that they will let their population be attacked? Do they need to see tons of dead Israelis before they rediscover the right to live? Will Wolf Blitzer do his best to reveal plans before it happens like he has already done? We are all being blackmailed by oil. What a sad situation. We were given a heads up about oil under Carter and we blew it. We as Americans not only didn't work out alternatives, the government gave incentives for people to buy SUV's by letting them park in truck and loading zones. Then we went from SUV's to Hummers! We turned down nuclear power. We turned down Anwar. As Prager always says, Leftists, in trying to make heaven on earth, because they don't believe in heaven, make hell on earth instead.






summers
prager once intoned that those who value death will one day wake up to find that those who cherish life will grant them their wish.

This leftist idea that these barbarians can be rehabilitated after learning to hate from day they are born is pure hokum.

But the problem remains what deterents to use. Killing several thousand terrorists doesn't even make a dent in the huge number of haters that reside in that area of the world.

The islamists will sacrifice millions to win their war against the west. The question that needs answering is the west willing to kill the same amount to convince these haters they can't win.

Iraq has shown that conventional warfare doesn't succeed as mere handfuls of the haters can continue to murder to extend the fight.

This idea the oil sheiks will stop pumping oil to punish the west is pure bunkum. They have no other income and with a burgeoning population need whatever revenue they can scrape up.

Just as saddam thought others would save him, iran is banking that china and russia will also save them. I doubt anyone in moscow or peking would lose 1 second of sleep if teheran was leveled. They might voice irritation and outrage but would not go any further than that.

The question then becomes when will the west find leaders with the stones to do the job that needs to be done. This idea that there is any redeeming value to iran only exists amongst b hussein and his kool ade drinking acolytes that see him as their messiah.

B hussein seems to buy into his own myth that he is here to save us from ourselves and also to save the world. The left would sacrifice any country and in particular israel if they thought that would solve the problem in the m/e. That is why america can't elect anyone who would rather surrender than fight to defend america

praeger kniws, but he wont tell
"when the lord your god brings you into the land youb are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations...then you musr=t destroy thm totally. Make no treaty deiuteronomy 7: 1-2
i wonder which side he is talking to. pity the other one because they are going to catch hell. oh well god will be god and he has to have his toys and entertainment. i love the word totally. im sure that sonme of you will wish to transa=late it to mean, ' 'eat a peach" but although it may be so i dont think so. it is to be sure close. "
, but close only counts in collateral damage.

do what?
Give me a break.

Which Arab/Muslim country has done the invading in the past 50 years?

Which US-backed client state has?

This saber-rattling is absurd and suicidal. I hope no one listens to this dangerous clown and his perverse fantasies.

MRBMRB
even though you changed your name you can't help yourself and still post drivel. Focus like a laser and think your post out before you write it then proofread it before you submit it. Try again and you just might get your point across.

Dennis the Menace to America
Dennis Prager affirmed the other day that whereas differences between the sexes were biological, those between the races are merely a matter of "culture".

On the basis of such a declaration is there any reason why we should even believe Prager when he tells us the sun is shining, regardless of whether he sincerely believes all this paranoid bullshine about Iran and Israel.

Boycotting a sporting event because you disapprove of another competitor's country is now proof of "unique hatred", right? Like the USA boycotting the Moscow Olympics in 1980?

Jeez. How long are we going to be suckered into wars and confrontations on behalf of Prager and his tribe of mouthfoamers? What are these foreign agents doing on a patriotic, conservative American website?


Pragmatic Questions
Clearly the threats to annihilate Israel are serious and substantial. The way things are looking now, Israel must choose between bombing Iran versus getting nuked itself. Not much choice, unless the world gets its act together and seriously sanctions Iran in short order. Which doesn't seem likely.

The questions are pragmatic ones. Iran is far away, and the flight paths are awkward, and the targets are mysterious spread out and buried. A raid that doesn't do a thorough job is much worse than no raid at all, for obvious reasons. But a thorough raid requires either planes coming and going with conventional bombs for a long time, maybe as much as a month...a bigger task than the IAF can manage. This isn't a one-shot deal...unless the attack is nuclear. Which is a pretty horrifying prospect, but it can't be ruled out.

It's a daunting situation. I pray that the decision makers will be guided by God, because I sure don't know what they should do.

Emasculated
Europe and many in America are hell bent on a wimpy self-destruction path. Israel, for some unimaginable reason, tolerates corrupt, incompetent Olmert as we tolerate America hating imbeciles like Robert ("Rattler29), King Liberal, MRC or MRB and so many others who agree with racist-Marxist homosexual Wright.
Israel has no other option but to take out Iran's nuclear sites as best they can as soon as possible and get ready for a real nasty war with Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria and the PLO and the communist western press.

paying for the war
I think we can all agree and pray for more tax cuts to pay for the coming war with Iran.

The costs for the war with Iraq have all been put on the national credit card. Hoorah!!!

We have written a bunch of IOU's to countries like China, Japam, Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

Isn't this a Neo-Con wealth redistribution plan, from Americans to foreigners?

National Survey: If Israel Attacks Iran,
U.S. should ...
__________

Iran & Israel - July 17, 2008
National Survey
Conducted July 17, 2008 by Rasmussen Reports:

If Israel Attacks Iran, U.S. should ...
Total:
Help Israel - 42%
Help Iran - 1%
Do nothing - 46%
Not sure - 11%
____

Party:

Republican:
Help Israel - 62%
Help Iran - 1%
Do nothing - 29%
Not sure - 7%

Democrat:
Help Israel - 31%
Help Iran - 2%
Do nothing - 52%
Not sure - 15%
____

Ideology:

Conservative:
Help Israel - 60%
Help Iran - 1%
Do nothing - 32%
Not sure - 7%

Liberal:
Help Israel - 30%
Help Iran - 3%
Do nothing - 50%
Not sure - 17%
________

General Election - With Leaners:


McCain:
Help Israel - 61%
Help Iran - 1%
Do nothing - 28%
Not sure - 9%


Obama:
Help Israel - 26%
Help Iran - 2%
Do nothing - 60%
Not sure - 12%
_____

Solution
What Israel should do is import the world's 25,000 polar bear population, turn their infrastructure into abortion clinics, and have the entire population turn homosexual en masse. Then maybe, just maybe, they'd get the support of the mamby pamby libs to defend themselves from this ahmadi-nutjob.

My father always taught me that I should do my best to avoid a fight. But when it became apparent that a fight was inevitable to "Hit first, Hit hard, and Hit to win."

So when some tyrannt says that he wants to wipe your country and culture off the face of the earth and is developing the means to do it, then I'd say a fight is pretty much inevitable. Israel needs to hit now and deliver a knock-out blow. I know my pop would approve.

If Israel decides to hit Iran
they will probably do it after the election, especially if obama gets elected.
They know McCain will stand tall in their defense, but cannot depend on bambi, so they'll strike to force his hand.

For me, the easiest way all around would be to drop abadabanut's plane into the Atlantic 1000 miles from shore on his next visit to the UN.
very easy to do and no fingerprints.

The leaders in Iran are zealots who believe as Prager said, it is written that they should destroy Israel. The world cannot allow people like these to remain in power, one man or small group left to their evil devices and entire populations die? Better we excise this cancer from the world as soon as possible, I'll put up with a little more pain at the pump in such a good cause as this.


did BarryO ask the UN to step in yet?
isn't it about now that BarryO will start talking about the UN, that is, unless his nuts were removed by JJ

There Is No Choice
This is not about religion, not about domestic politics - all Americans must stand up for the last, best hope for the survival of the Jews in this century. Wild men from Persia threaten to destroy the Jews - to finish Hitler's task. There is no choice.

In every generation they come to destroy the Jews. It is happening again. You do not need to believe in any religious text, you need merely to see what is happening, what has always happened. If America fails to come to the aid of the Jews, we lose our souls.

If the Hebrews attack on their own, America must support them in the aftermath. There is no alternative. The wild men from Persia must be stopped, or the next target is Christendom. Make no mistake, the course is clear. Attack or die. There is no third alternative.

wobbiehal scribbles
tomarico since we cannot apparantly
prove that the Iranians are working on a bomb...

Once again you prove that stuptidy knows no bounds.

Subject: The IDF would have to fly through skies
defended by the worlds most powerful air force and several powerful "air arms".
right wing fantasy.
Robert

Which proves I have been right all along. You are a seat buffing lib baboon

One has but to wonder

what would the opinion polls show should Iran release it's oil at say, $30.00 per barrel and then started handing out International consumer loans in accordance with Sharia law?

Would our support of Israel continue?

wobbiehal scribbles:
nonesense

And yet you keep posting your dribble. Don't you have a seat to polish somewhere? Take off puke.

wobbiehal: Sigh,I will always be a scallywag.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
~ Thomas Jefferson
http://www.patriotsrevolt.com/
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

What would James Bond do?
James Bond would secretly place bombs in the air shafts of the various Nuclear sites. They would be programmed to go off in five minute intervals.

rightviewpoint sayz:
Obama:
Help Israel - 26%
Help Iran - 2%
Do nothing - 60%
Not sure - 12%

AH HA! This proves that they are the do nothing party!From their own mouths no less.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
~ Thomas Jefferson
http://www.patriotsrevolt.com/
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean



paranoidmystic
If you don't like the fact the Israel is taking seriously Ahmadinejab's threats, to the point of contemplating military action against Iran - well, the world has only ITSELF to blame for that. For centuries, the rest of the world has stood by in disinterest while one outrage after another was perpetrated on Jews throughout the world. To be blunt about it, most of the non-Arab world, starting with Europe, would probably like to see all the Jews in the world gone just as much as the Arabs. As Mona Charen commented years ago about the world's attitude toward Jews, "You say that Jews have died? Well, they've died before. We'll just build them another monument". And what the world hates about the Jews is that they actually have the cheek to not want to go gentle into that good night. If Ahmadinejab weren't talking about annihilating Israel, Israel wouldn't be contemplating action against Iran. As I've said to you before on this very subject, if Iran doesn't want to be a target of Israeli military action, than Iran should quit ACTING like a target. Jews have heard the threats of others against them before - who promptly went ahead to make good on those threats when they had the capability. You'll pardon the Israelis therefore for tending to treat seriously the threats of a man who is actively in the process of acquiring the means to make good on those threats - especially when they yet again see a world that seems indifferent to it all.

Although I'm not as convinced as Prager that Iran's leaders are in fact prepared to sacrifice their OWN lives in pursuit of a Judenrein (Jewish-free) Middle East. The fact is, like those in power throughout the Arab/Muslim world, they are quite willing to sacrifice their hapless civilians, but they all go to great lengths to make sure they themselves stay very much in the land of the living - like Saddam Hussein did.

Standshisground sayz:
Although I'm not as convinced as Prager that Iran's leaders are in fact prepared to sacrifice their OWN lives in pursuit of a Judenrein (Jewish-free) Middle East.

That is a very valid point for one reason. If Obambi wins the election, they know all he would do is “talk” with them about it and Israel knows this as well.
So I think if Obambi wins, Israel will do a little winning of their own

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
~ Thomas Jefferson
http://www.patriotsrevolt.com/
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Unlikely
In 1981, decisive Begin was PM and had an election coming up. Nice election stunt--get rid of Osirak.

2008, maldecisive (proved by the fact of his release of unremorseful Mansonesque murderer Samir Quntar) Olmert is PM; while Israel's military has some independence from PM's orders (as shown by its training to hit Natanz), it is unlikely that anything will be done until voters pink-slip Olmert.

paranoidmystic reply #12
Please tell me you're joking.

"Which Arab/Muslim country has done the invading in the past 50 years?"

Here's a short history lesson for you - free of charge:
Egypt, Jordan and Syria invaded Israel in 1967 (41 years ago)
Iraq invaded Iran in 1980 (28 years ago)
Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990 (18 years ago)

This does not even describe all of the "surrogate invasions" which have been committed by Arab/Muslim countries through terrorist groups. These have gone on in large part for more than forty years.

Just imagine if the US government was paying the Rotary club memebrs and their families to carry out suicide attacks against Iranian citizens. If the US armed them, paid their travel and financially supported their families after the attack. - Would you term that an invasion?

This is all irrelevant as to what I might think about Mr. Prager's hypothesis. I just wanted to illustrate that your questions sounded quite foolish.

RD

I certainly hope that
American Jews will drop their allegiance to the dems and support McCain this time around. To do otherwise will be to support the destruction of the Jewish homeland.

This is a very dangerous time in our history, one cannot negotiate with animals like these, they must be destroyed as one would a rabid dog.

"Never again" must be a rallying cry for everyone on this planet until this scourge of the islamists is totally defeated.

They want to kill or subjugate us all and take over the world and I sure as hell don't trust bambi to protect our country or Israel.

Hit Iran
Those familiar with the disgraceful political scandals in Israel and its weak economic condition know that the threats on Iran are mainly for show. Israel may have the capacity to inflict some damage but at a price that no one can begin to contemplate. In May 1967 Israel could hear the Arab leaders conversations, plans and faced the failures of U.S presidential promises that were not honored-keeping the straits of Aqaba open for commerce and oil supplies. Israel was worried that Egypt was about to attack from the Sinai, after removing the U.N forces. This time, Israel does not have direct access and cannot pay for the enormous economic costs a war like this could cost it ad the rest of the world. This attack could put the country out of business considering the costs of launching the war and the costs of the damages that could result within Israel from an Iranian attack. It could also draw the U.S and the neighbors into a war and the prices of oil could spike to $300.00 per barrel. It could become a disaster that few economists have been able to calculate. I believe we face the exact same situation that the U.K faced before World War 2. It could not afford to hit the Germans, broke, ill equipped, lack of will and utterly indifferent- its allies asleep, and the U.S barely recovering from its economic malaise while having to prepare to confront Japan. I say, unless attacked, Israel will do nothing. No one is there to take decisions. After a new solid government is in place, this is after the removal of Ehud Olmert, Israel most corrupt and most reviled Premier, perhaps than an adult will run the country and rational decisions could be taken.

Al
This time, Israel does not have direct access and cannot pay for the enormous economic costs a war like this could cost it ad the rest of the world.

They sure can not afford to do nothing as that would invite certain disaster.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
~ Thomas Jefferson
http://www.patriotsrevolt.com/
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Good Guys and Bad Guys...
It isn't hard to figure out which is which.

The Iranian people are not a free people and like the Iraqi people cannot think like free people. They are at the mercy of Mr. Nutjob just like Iraqis were at the mercy of Saddam.

It always amazes me that the Libs always jump up to stand by dictators (some are even elected dictators) who oppress and kill their own people. Libs do the same thing though, they just prefer to do it prior to birth, less messy I suppose. Libs in CA just prefer to let illegals do their dirty work for them by refusing to cooperate with the agencies of Homeland Security.

I don't see how sanctions would work on Iran when death is valued more than life. If world leaders can't figure out who the bad guys are and how to stop them and have the determination to do it, then citizens of all nations will suffer the consequences.

The basic canon of Arab life is me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel. -- Leon Uris, 'The Haj'

We know BHO is at the very least an appeaser and sympathizer of Muslims and even if his intentions aren't sinister, his ideology will pave the road to h3ll.

A strong American leader is needed. Does anyone know where we can find one?


Rattler says
"prove that the Iranians are working on a bomb..."

----

So I assume the Iranians were simply skipping stones in the ocean recently? Very large explosive stones.

Zero Evidence
Prager's feverish rantings again provide ZERO EVIDENCE that Iran has any nuclear weapons program whatsoever. Why? Because there isn't any evidence.

Israel already possesses over a hundred nukes--the world's worst-kept secret.

Iran, unlike Israel, is a signatory to the non-proliferation treaty. As such, it has an absolute right to enrich uranium for peaceful purposes. Iran has allowed, and continues to allow, intrusive inspections by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), which to date has produced no evidence whatsoever of any nuclear weapons program.

Iran's leadership has repeatedly declared that seeking nuclear weapons is contrary to Islam.

Ahmadi-Nejad and other Iranian leaders have said that the Israeli Regime will "disappear from the pages of time." This is about like Ronald Reagan saying that communist and the Soviet Union will end up in "the dustbin of history." Ahmadi-Nejad, by the way, never said Israel should be "wiped off the map."

But some swimmers refused to swim against an Israeli. Boy, that's a cause for an unprovoked bombing.

Prager, a phony, posturing "moralist," advocates an unprovoked attack on Iranian nuclear plants, likely causing the deaths of thousands.

Another Bulldozer in Israel
Apparently today, a Palestinian who works construction in Israel decided to use a bulldozer and run over Jewish civilians just like the incident a couple weeks ago.


Paolo....not quite
Here is a direct quote from Aqualvelvajad:

"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," he said, referring to Iran's late revolutionary leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.

Here is a link to the BBC news article where the quote came from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4378948.stm

If you do not know something to be true, do not emphatically state it to be true. You would then have a chance to be read as credible. As it stands all of your post is now suspect.

Careful now....
RD


Will Isreal Attack?
Isreal will do what is in the best interests of Isreal! End of Comment.

Prager constructs good BS....
... but it remains nonetheless BS. "It seems to me that the answers to the first two questions are so obvious that any burden of proof rests on those who argue otherwise." This sounds very much like the statement of someone who's made a wholly untenable proposition, and seeks to avoid supporting it. Iran has a handful of dubious (when not photoshopped) missles, and no nukes, but is a "threat" to one of the world's nuclear superpowers? Israel is no threat to the Arab states by its existence -- but threatens everyone through its paranoia.

rdk: What would james Bond do?
Actually you're thinking about MacGyver. Bond wasn't quite so co-ordinated. He had a problem about being distracted by the female fatales that were scripted in..

Nice thought though. I'd like to be watching the satellite images when they go up. Fireworks for freedom, eh?

Something like this should appeal to the far left anti-war bunch in that no "innocent" civilians would be killed. Shame, too. We keep leaving a remnant to grow up and start it all over again.

Realitydweller....
... is misnamed.

"Here's a short history lesson for you - free of charge: Egypt, Jordan and Syria invaded Israel in 1967"

Nope -- Israel launched the Six-Day War of 1967 (oops, sorry, the term is supposed to be "pre-emptive strike.")

By Israel or by the U.S.?
If a dog is crazy, it has to be destroyed. Ahmadinejud is not only crazy, he is dangerous. He also is a criminal who was involved as a "revolutionary guard" in the US hostage crisis. It is not a matter whether Iran has to be attacked. The only question is when and by whom.

Is Israel doomed?
They are surrounded and extremely outnumbered by their enemies. These enemies see Israel as an absolute impediment to their physical and religious lives. These people want Israel completely destroyed and all of their Jews dead. There are those on the left that blame Israel for this. It is becoming more and more apparent that the left backs up the terrorists on the "Jewish question." Iran has made it clear that when they can they will hit and destroy Israel. The USA is not out of the question. We are on the hit list.

MGersh
"all Americans must stand up for the last, best hope for the survival of the Jews in this century"

By encouraging several million Jewish immigrants from Israel to the US. It's amazing how many "Israel supporters" love Jews just so long as they're in harm's way on the far side of the world.

Iran's nuclear bomb intent
I'd like to point out that Iran already has plans for nuclear weapons from the AQKhan network,the IAEA has confirmed that.Iran has already tested nuclear bomb components.(the parts to crush the 'pit'.) Also,WRT Iran's 'peaceful enrichment',they locked out the IAEA so it could not and CANNOT fully verify that Iran is obeying the NPT treaty.Iran has hidden their centrifuge plants in deep tunnels and the entire Iranian nuclear program is under Iranian MILITARY control,not civilian.only the most naive or totally uninformed person would believe that Iran was not seeking nuclear bombs.

Besides,if Iran was truly only seeking apeaceful nuclear energy program,they would have gladly accepted the West's or Russia's proposals to supply ready-to-use reactor fuel rods and removal of spent rods.Especially with all the incentives added to sweeten the deal.
But they didn't.

If the Israelis are "paranoid"
it seems to me that they have a pretty good reason to be given their history over 5 millenia.
No one took hitler seriously and we all saw the result.
No one takes this animal in Iran seriously either, obama actually seems to believe he can negotiate with him, this is arrogance and naivete writ large. Chamberlain thought that as well about hitler and that didn't work out very well either.

I believe the figure is over a 100 million dead because the world won't act against monsters.

You cannot negotiate with people who are religous fanatics, people who believe that Armageddon advances their idealogy, you destroy them in the nest so to speak before they have a chance to destroy or conquer the world.





Interesting question
Whether Israel will attack Iran is a worrisome question. Bennie Morris, who is comparatively liberal, write an oped arguing for such a move. That does suggest it is possible. Obviously such a move would make our position in Iraq untenable. Or maybe it would just unite the Iraqis in their hatred of us.

Prager's argument for it is not particularly compelling. While Iran has called for the end of jewish rule in Israel, they have pointedly avoided threatening to do it themselves. And contrary to Prager's claim that the Iranian rulers have shown themselves to worship death, since the revolution they have acted pragmatically to enhance their worldly position in the region they live. The Russians had a long history of treating their soldiers as cannon fodder, and yet MAD worked against the Soviets.

Nor is it true that Iran has been hell bent on acquiring nuclear weapons. They are already abotu 4 decades behind the Israelis. They have generally pursued nuclear weapons when they have felt threatened. And it does seem likely that they picked up the pace since we invaded Iraq despite their lack of a nuclear program. But then deterrence doesn't work when one abandons it as a program.

My guess is still that the Israelis don't bomb. They have made some mistakes in their history, but they are not really in the position to make such a monumental screw up at this point. So I think they will bluster. But they will not do something so foolish.

bytheocean #20
"Carter's heads-up" consisted of shutting down domestic oil production with excess taxes.

Remember, the Jews developed the polio vaccine and other things. What medicines have the terrorists developed?

paolo #49: You're forgetting that the Koran says muslims may lie under oath to us. They're not even under oath when they tell their lies.

Butcher #52:...and Hussein Obama will do what is in the best interests of Islam.

Lon
"Nor is it true that Iran has been hell bent on acquiring nuclear weapons. They are already abotu 4 decades behind the Israelis. They have generally pursued nuclear weapons when they have felt threatened. And it does seem likely that they picked up the pace since we invaded Iraq despite their lack of a nuclear program."

On the contrary -- if the various intelligence estimates are to be believed, the mullahs slowed, suspended, or better hid their nuclear program when they found themselves bookended by American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, but boldly resumed activity when it became clear that we didn't intend to invade Iran.

Your point is valid, however. Even madmen occasionally understand self-interest. (Hmm, if someone vaporizes Tehran, I may be vaporized, too.) But madmen's flashes of understanding aren't much to gamble on.

By the way
MAD is immoral and insane, and it did not work against the Soviets. What worked was threat of SDI, which undermines the mutuality of destruction. The Soviet empire was manifestly unable to match this development, and it collapsed.

RealityDweller
What you give is not a direct quote from Ahmadinejad, who as far as I know doesn't speak English, but rather a translation of a quote from Ahmadinejad. The quote that Paolo gives is a translation of the same quote from Ahamdinejad. And Paolo's version apparently captures what Ahmadinejad said better than your version does.

Ahmadinejad has made the same claim on several occassions, and has sometimes explained it in terms of the way that the USSR has ended up in the dustbin of history, (or been wiped off the map, if one prefers). The claim then is not of a military strike, but of a change of government that will put the Palestinians in charge of the region. (We have passed laws expressing our belief that a similar change of government should occur in Iran).

Paolo is right that the Iranians have avoided actually threatening an attack on Israel except in retaliation. (Another often sited comment by people wanting to attack Iran comes from Rafsanjani who said that if the Iranians develop nuclear weapons then there will be peace in the region because the Israelis know that Iran is big enough to survive a nuclear attack while Israel would be destroyed. This is a classic expression of deterrence, which according to Prager, is easy to understand. But the warmongers drop the first half of the comment and pretend that Rafsanjani is threatening to attack Israel with nuclear weapons because Israel will be destroyed while Iran is not).

That does not mean that Iran does not secretly intend to bomb Israel as soon as possible, although there is no evidence of that, but it does mean that is simply not true that Iran has made such threats, as Prager contends.

Paolo
The funny thing is that the strongest reason for believing that the Iranians are developing nuclear weapons is that we would be developing nuclear weapons if we were in their shoes. It is almost irrational for them not to be developing nuclear weapons given the situation they find themselves in.

RW
This is your favorite line that you have used probably 10 times by now: "By encouraging several million Jewish immigrants from Israel to the US."


And I am asking you, for the 10th time, to politely explain this statement please, which you have never done.

Retaliate First
In the Islamic religion, the followers are told that they should retaliate after being attacked and then sue for peace. However the new look is that they should retaliate first - before the enemy attacks them. The enemy is going to attack, so retaliate for their intention. Then you wait for them to sue for peace. If they retaliate in turn then you must retaliate again to see if they will sue for peace.

Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?


Nice bigotry, RealCon
No lives at all are at risk with Israel having the bomb. None. Explain to me where they have used their nuclear weapons or used nuclear blackmail to further their pursuits. One could imagine a scenario where a nuclear threat might calm the West Bank and Gaza a bit. They haven't; but to true idiots like youself, it doesn't matter: in your morally equivalent universe the U.S. and Israel having nuclear bombs is just as dangerous as Iran having a nuclear bomb. Go back to your fantasy life.

The problem with idiots like yourself is that you actually think you know what you're talking about; it's your certainty that is so amazing. There's a big difference, fool, between a good man having the only gun around and a bad man having that gun; but of course fools like you simply say that everyone wanting a gun is understandable, since the police have guns.

Shells
RC can't explain his hatred for the Jewish people any more than Iamadinnerjacket can. He just hates because he can and spews his venom because he can.

What a fool believes no wise man has the power to reason away. RC is a fool and a tool of Islam. When he finally perceives Islam as a threat, it will be too late. If Israel were obliterated from the ME, the Islamists would not be satisfied. As the New York imam said yesterday in New York City, this country will end but Islam will not. It is the topic of thousands of posters on the subway. It is pathetic that people like RC see no connection of history to the current time. It does repeat.

RC needs to find a good therapist to deal with his anger issues.

Mr. Prager
his stand and celebrity confuses.

There is a Jewish word, 'shtick.' It basically means someone who has found a nitch and plays it for all it is worth.

Mr. Prager, himself Jewish, can't help to have an interest in his claims about Jewish hatred.

Mr. Prager is a celebrity. His celebrity status affords him a certain measure of authority and credibility.

Mr. Prager is a moralist. Morality is an important issue with many.

All those put together and as sincere as Mr. Prager is, He has a 'shtick' to play it for all it is worth.

Mr. Prager I have some great advice to make what you say less confusing.?



Hey mrbmrb
Why didn't you read a little further. As in Deuteronomy 7-5 & 6
Their alters you should pull down and their sacred pillers you should break down and their sacred poles you should cut down and their graven images you should burn with fire.
For you are a holy people to Jehovah your god. It is you Jehovah your god has chosen to become his people, a special property, out of all the peoples on the surface of the ground.

Liberal Atheist Twit

The Master
Turgenyev said of Tolstoy: "a master, a master." So, after watching Obama in Jordan, objective observers have to say, "a master, a master."

gus
You need to talk to your imam about your anger management problems.

POP QUIZ: What percentage of the US population is Jewish? What percentage is Muslim?

I know the answer, dolt. You need to get a clue as you seem to have the intelligence of a hemorrhoid.

Oh, great
The anti-Semites have arrived. There goes the neighborhood.

gus
You stupid, over-exposed, undereducated twit, go back and read about the 'Palestinian refugees' at the time Israel was formed, legally formed at that. If you don't know that history, you are a bigger idiot than you are showing us you are. Tell me where all of these people came from and who paid them to go there. Tell me when in history there was a Palestinian state that was self-governing. Tell me where the name Palestine originated.

IRAN v ISRAEL
Jihadists say, "We value death as much as you [Jews, Americans, Westerners in general] value life."

ALL INFIDELS must convince these insane people how much we really do value life

Ahmadinejad said, "Iran will allow Tehran to be destroyed in order to obliviate Israel."

Sanctions have not and will not stop the Mullahs of Iran from succeeding in attaining a nuclear weapon to destroy Israel. Moreover, Iran will supply Syria, Lebanon, Hezbollah and Hamas with nuclear weapons. These weapons will arrive in the United States if they are developed.

These murdering terrorists will kill anyone who is not a Muslim. Amahdinejad and all the rest of the Jihadists have been telling the world, "Israel is little satan" and "America is big satan." Islam Jihadists are hell bent on conquering the world. Does anyone care?


The Great Satan
My mother-in-law will be quite tickled to find out I've been equated with someone from the left. My friend, I am a proud, lifelong CONSERVATIVE. I simply resent the fact that my party has been hijacked by ex-democrats posing as republicans, aka "Neocons."

All of us have heard this term 'preventative war' since the earliest days of Hitler. I recall that is about the first time I heard it. In this day and time... I don't believe there is such a thing; and, frankly, I wouldn't even listen to anyone seriously that came in and talked about such a thing.
- General Dwight D. Eisenhower

wll
You wrote that"Dennis Prager affirmed the other day that whereas differences between the sexes were biological, those between the races are merely a matter of "culture"....and then go on to say that therefore he has no credibility.

Just curious, what do you find wrong with that concept? It seems pretty solid to me.

wll
You wrote that"Dennis Prager affirmed the other day that whereas differences between the sexes were biological, those between the races are merely a matter of "culture"....and then go on to say that therefore he has no credibility.

Just curious, what do you find wrong with that concept? It seems pretty solid to me.

RealCon
If I would be found on the left side of the bell curve, I would be properly chastened; but, that is not the case.

Bill Gates invested millions of dollars in greenhouses for the 'Palestinians' to start up industries in the Gaza strip. Generous gift on Gates' part. The Palestinians tore them down.

You seem to be of the opinion that innocent Palestinian women and children suffer as a result of Israel. The cowardice of Islam allows terrorists to hide among women and children. The cowardice of Islam allows women and children to be used as bombers. Palestinians don't want to work, they want payments from Iran, Syria and other terrorist sponsoring nations to give them payment for causing death and destruction.

Go send your monthly tithe to CAIR and feel proud of your silly self.

Israel Is Not The Point
The violent crackpots who run Iran are a threat to everyone around them, not just the Israelis. The crack-brained anti-Semites who are advocating that we abandon our allies to achieve peace with these homicidal maniacs should be volunteering for the Obama campaign instead of wasting their time posting on this thread. Iran is a menace. Its a sign of the weak-kneed confusion of the Bush regime that we havent been openly advocating the overthrow of the illegal clique who uses violence to keep its grip on power there. We should have radio and TV stations beaming into Iran, we should be supporting groups dedicated to the overthrow of the mullahs. We should have done some cross-border raids against the Revolutionary Guard bases. But we have joined the Euros in their pathetic, weak attempt to talk these savages out of acquiring the weapons they will use to seize control of the entire region. Our only hope is that the Israelis will have enough courage to do the job we should have taken on two years ago. So let the Jew-haters on the right and left condemn Israel, but they should remember that if we lose control of the Middle East oil to these towel-headed creeps gas prices will double instantly.

Rw...the REAL story #1
The Arabs say the Israelis grabbed this real estate in a war of aggression in 1967. In fact, Israel did not start that war. Israel did not want that war. Israel merely defended itself – very, very effectively – from coordinated attacks by Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Syria and Arafat's terrorists.
This is the month-long timeline leading up to the Six-Day War:

On May 7, the New York Times reported Syria had shelled the Israeli village of Ein Gev.


On May 17, the New York Times reported that the Palestine Liberation Organization, headed by Arafat, pledged to "keep sending commandos" into Israel.

On May 19, the Los Angeles Times reported Egypt stood accused of using poison gas in Yemen.

On May 19, the New York Times reported Egypt had deployed its forces along the Israeli border.

On May 20, the New York Times reported Egypt forced U.N. peacekeeping troops to leave the Sinai Desert in anticipation of its attack on Israel.

On May 21, the New York Times reported Egyptian soldiers were massing in the Sinai.

On May 22, the New York Times reported that the PLO would be stepping up its attacks in Israel, that Cairo was calling up 10,000 reserves and that Iraq would be sending aid to battle Israel.

On May 23, every newspaper in the world reported that Egypt took the provocative action of closing the Gulf of Aqaba to Israel.

On May 24, every newspaper in the world reported that the U.S. declared Egypt's military blockade of the gulf "illegal."


skep
Spot on, except worse will result that mere rises in the price of oil. Civilization depends on stopping the Islamists.