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Tuesday, March 25, 2008
Dennis Prager :: Townhall.com Columnist
Why Do Palestinians Get Much More Attention than Tibetans?
by Dennis Prager
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The long-suffering Tibetans have been in the news. This happens perhaps once or twice a decade. In a more moral world, however, public opinion would be far more preoccupied with Tibetans than with Palestinians, would be as harsh on China as it is on Israel, and would be as fawning on Israel as it now is on China.

But, alas, the world is, as it has always been, a largely mean-spirited and morally insensitive place, where might is far more highly regarded than right.

Consider the facts: Tibet, at least 1,400 years old, is one of the world's oldest nations, has its own language, its own religion and even its own ethnicity. Over 1 million of its people have been killed by the Chinese, its culture has been systematically obliterated, 6,000 of its 6,200 monasteries have been looted and destroyed, and most of its monks have been tortured, murdered or exiled.

Palestinians have none of these characteristics. There has never been a Palestinian country, never been a Palestinian language, never been a Palestinian ethnicity, never been a Palestinian religion in any way distinct from Islam elsewhere. Indeed, "Palestinian" had always meant any individual living in the geographic area called Palestine. For most of the first half of the 20th century, "Palestinian" and "Palestine" almost always referred to the Jews of Palestine. The United Jewish Appeal, the worldwide Jewish charity that provided the nascent Jewish state with much of its money, was actually known as the United Palestine Appeal. Compared to Tibetans, few Palestinians have been killed, its culture has not been destroyed nor its mosques looted or plundered, and Palestinians have received billions of dollars from the international community. Unlike the dying Tibetan nation, there are far more Palestinians today than when Israel was created.

None of this means that a distinct Palestinian national identity does not now exist. Since Israel's creation such an identity has arisen and does indeed exist. Nor does any of this deny that many Palestinians suffered as a result of the creation of the third Jewish state in the area, known -- since the Romans renamed Judea -- as "Palestine."

But it does mean that of all the causes the world could have adopted, the Palestinians' deserved to be near the bottom and the Tibetans' near the top. This is especially so since the Palestinians could have had a state of their own from 1947 on, and they have caused great suffering in the world, while the far more persecuted Tibetans have been characterized by a morally rigorous doctrine of nonviolence.

So, the question is, why? Why have the Palestinians received such undeserved attention and support, and the far more aggrieved and persecuted and moral Tibetans given virtually no support or attention?

The first reason is terror. Some time ago, the Palestinian leadership decided, with the overwhelming support of the Palestinian people, that murdering as many innocent people -- first Jews, and then anyone else -- was the fastest way to garner world attention. They were right. On the other hand, as The Economist notes in its March 28, 2008 issue, "Tibetan nationalists have hardly ever resorted to terrorist tactics…" It is interesting to speculate how the world would have reacted had Tibetans hijacked international flights, slaughtered Chinese citizens in Chinese restaurants and temples, on Chinese buses and trains, and massacred Chinese schoolchildren.

The second reason is oil and support from powerful fellow Arabs. The Palestinians have rich friends who control the world's most needed commodity, oil. The Palestinians have the unqualified support of all Middle Eastern oil-producing nations and the support of the Muslim world beyond the Middle East. The Tibetans are poor and have the support of no nations, let alone oil-producing ones.

The third reason is Israel. To deny that pro-Palestinian activism in the world is sometimes related to hostility toward Jews is to deny the obvious. It is not possible that the unearned preoccupation with the Palestinians is unrelated to the fact that their enemy is the one Jewish state in the world. Israel's Jewishness is a major part of the Muslim world's hatred of Israel. It is also part of Europe's hostility toward Israel: Portraying Israel as oppressors assuages some of Europe's guilt about the Holocaust -- "see, the Jews act no better than we did." Hence the ubiquitous comparisons of Israel to Nazis.

A fourth reason is China. If Tibet had been crushed by a white European nation, the Tibetans would have elicited far more sympathy. But, alas, their near-genocidal oppressor is not white. And the world does not take mass murder committed by non-whites nearly as seriously as it takes anything done by Westerners against non-Westerners. Furthermore, China is far more powerful and frightening than Israel. Israel has a great army and nuclear weapons, but it is pro-West, it is a free and democratic society, and it has seven million people in a piece of land as small as Belize. China has nuclear weapons, has a trillion U.S. dollars, an increasingly mighty army and navy, is neither free nor democratic, is anti-Western, and has 1.2 billion people in a country that dominates the Asian continent.

A fifth reason is the world's Left. As a general rule, the Left demonizes Israel and has loved China since it became Communist in 1948. And given the power of the Left in the world's media, in the political life of so many nations, and in the universities and the arts, it is no wonder vicious China has been idolized and humane Israel demonized.

The sixth reason is the United Nations, where Israel has been condemned in more General Assembly and Security Council resolutions than any other country in the world. At the same time, the UN has voted China onto its Security Council and has never condemned it. China's sponsoring of Sudan and its genocidal acts against its non-Arab black population, as in Darfur, goes largely unremarked on at the UN, let alone condemned, just as is the case with its cultural genocide, ethnic cleansing and military occupation of Tibet.

The seventh reason is television news, the primary source of news for much of mankind. Aside from its leftist tilt, television news reports only what it can video. And almost no country is televised as much as Israel, while video reports in Tibet are forbidden, as they are almost anywhere in China except where strictly monitored by the Chinese authorities. No video, no TV news. And no TV, no concern. So while grieving Palestinians and the accidental killings of Palestinians during morally necessary Israeli retaliations against terrorists are routinely televised, the slaughter of over a million Tibetans and the extinguishing of Tibetan Buddhism and culture are non-events as far as television news is concerned.

The world is unfair, unjust and morally twisted. And rarely more so than in its support for the Palestinians -- no matter how many innocents they target for murder and no matter how much Nazi-like anti-Semitism permeates their media -- and its neglect of the cruelly treated, humane Tibetans.

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About The Author
Dennis Prager is a radio show host, contributing columnist for Townhall.com, and author of 4 books including Happiness Is a Serious Problem: A Human Nature Repair Manual.
 
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Tibetans
Taft writes: "I'm game, Mr Prager, is the thing in Tibet worse than this..." and then includes a link to a selection of pictures showing injured and dead Palestinians.

How typical. The intellectual dishonesty shown by the above-referenced post is as breathtaking as it is predictable. I'm sure I could round up dozens or hundreds of bloody and gruesome photos of the dead and injured in just one homicide bomb attack on Israeli civilians. But that is not the point that Dennis Prager was making. The point that he was making is that even the 60 years of violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has not produced more than a very small fraction of the wholesale mass murder, torture, and death in concentration camps suffered by the Tibetans at the hands of Communist China since 1950.

Surveys conducted by a variety of organizations generally agree that the number of Tibetans slaughtered by the Chinese between 1950 and 1984 is probably around 1,200,000. The number of Palestinian deaths during that same timeframe pales in comparison. Over 430,000 Tibetan civilians were exterminated by the Chinese during 1959 alone. Over 260,000 ethnic Tibetans have subsequently died in prisons and concentration camps.

It is not like the slaughter suddenly stopped in 1984. There just haven't been any reliable figures available since then. So yes, Mr Taft, the "thing" in Tibet is many, many times worse than what has happened in Palestine. There is simply no comparison. Just because you can produce some heart-wrenching photographs does not change the known facts.

Good article,
with the emphasis of the 'morally twisted' nature of this world.

As a passing read of some of the posters comments on this site easily reveals.

But the morally twisted nature of this world finds its source in the morally twisted nature of the hearts of individuals except Christ's

Upside Down World
Great post. Wish it was on the front page of every major newspaper in the country tommorrow. But I'm afraid the world will remain the unfair place that it is until our Savior returns.

The Tibetan non-event
The real 'religion of peace' is Buddhism but the slaughter of its adherents doesn't elicit the hand wringing and banshee wails from the leftist media or the so called peace groups that accidentally shooting an Iraqi civilian does. Their electronic messengers are unconcerned with Chinese brutality except for sanitizing it and repackaging Red Chinese propaganda.

Does it take a genius to determine whose water is being carried?

Good article, Dennis.

The "left" does not "love China"
In fact, the Left has been saying for years that the Chinese repress dissent and oppress their workers. It is big business that "loves" China.

Supporting Palestinians
How can anyone support a bigoted group like the palestinians? Israel was completely willing to let Palestinians live and work in Israel, but that wasn't good enough. Israelis "stole" their land, that is too say, Israelis had the money and were willing to spend it to buy the land they occupy.

Everywhere the Palestinians have been giving autonomy, they have destroyed all infrastructure that Israelis worked so hard to build and left to the Palestinians. Palestinians are gnawing away at Israeli, always demanding one more little bit, with the promise each time of peace, but the delivery of more terrorism and rockets.

The land belongs to Israel, the Palestinians, if they wish to live in a muslim land, should go to anyone of the many around the area. They do not because not even fellow muslims are prepared to accept such a violent, destructive people.

Tom the Tinker
"Israel was completely willing to let Palestinians live and work in Israel, but that wasn't good enough."

How sweet! You can come work (menial jobs please!) in your country after we steal it.

And the sheeple wonder why they have a problem with this!

It's easy
The corporations love the cheap wages they get workers for to produce all the cheap crap we get at Target and Wall Mart. China has child laborers and political prisoners who sew up all those clothes.


If you want to support the Tibetans
Boycott companies who advertise in the Olympic games this summer.

Israel "stole"--ISRAEL?
For those who think that God was joking when He said the land of Israel belonged to, well, Israel:

Near the end of the 19th century, the land was controlled by the Turkish Empire, but was almost entirely an uninhabited wasteland. Jews gained the empire's permission to resettle THEIR historical land, and began to develop and improve it. AFTER the Jews had begun making Israel a viable country again with stable agriculture, Arab migrants began filtering in to find employment. Those unorganized migrants are the basis for today's cynical fiction of "the nation of Palestine"--although their so-called nation had to bring in an EGYPTIAN, Yasser Arafat, to run itt.

Along came the British, who promised to support the Jews, but reneged on their promise after World War One. They drew up the "Mandate of Palestine," which included what is now the Kingdom of Jordan. The fact that there IS a Kingdom of Jordan to this day shows that Muslims control most of "Palestine" anyway. But less than everything is NEVER enough to satisfy the greed of Islamists; they begrudge the Jews, in fact they begrudge everyone, the right to live ANYPLACE without being dominated by Sharia law.

And as for Israelis supposedly routinely murdering Palestinian Arabs: many of the allegations have been proven to be fabricated--like the time a video camera caught an Arab "corpse" GETTING UP at his staged funeral.

For Tom the Thinker
A fact that you DIDN't mention--supporting "Palestinians" is akin to supporting Nazis during WW2--noted that the Palis are the only group which have no regret/remorse (not even that of being exposed) about doing such!

Dennis Prager Tibet
If we really want to help the Tibetan peolple, we have to accept the fact that only we Jews are able to do so:
let's make clear to the world that we, the international jewish concpiracy, Ahasverus Eternal Inc., are the hidden, ugly beast behind the Chinese government.
We must also make clear that we are responsible for the genocide in Dharfur, where ultraorthodox-haredi cossacks are killing the farmers.
and, to be honest: it is we, who are preparing the next genocide in east-turkestan.
If the world will come to understand this truth, the UN, Unesco, UNWRA etc. will intervene immediately, and finally rescue the Tibetans.

muslim thinking
they still believe they have the right to control spain due to the moors conquering it centuries ago. The west always overlooks the muslims and their desire to impliment world-wide sharia. A pipedream but with terrorism they will try to get countries to submit. Perhaps europe will wake up before it is too late. The oil sheiks have extorted billions from the west for oild while exporting millions of the people they don't want back home. Right now they have the world by the throat and are sqeezing. But fortyunately they have no clue how to run anything without the use of terrorism and secret police. They are incapable of acting civilized in their own countries and treating their own citizens with humanity. They will never have the capacity to rule outside the areas they can effectively force their way on others

Why lefties LOVE China and Palistinians
Quote 1)..."alas, their near-genocidal oppressor is not white. And the world does not take mass murder committed by non-whites nearly as seriously as it takes anything done by Westerners against non-Westerners."
Quote 2)..."the Left demonizes Israel and has loved China since it became Communist in 1948."
================================================

These were my thoughts upon reading the title and not yet having read the article. An to prove the point the following leftisits posted:

laborlawyer writes: Tuesday, March, 25, 2008 3:58 AM
The "left" does not "love China"
In fact, the Left has been saying for years that the Chinese repress dissent and oppress their workers.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note the lack of care of the repressive system of Communism and outright murder of citizens. So long as they can Unionize.


and:

Taft writes: Tuesday, March, 25, 2008 12:23 AM
Horror
I'm game Mr. Prager, is the thing in Tibet worse than this...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here we go with the moral equivalency...First you commit murder and terror on a people, then send pictures (real or staged) to demonstrate how oppressed you are. For Taft and his host of Useful Idiots to be accurate, they would have to post images of the Chinese populace that were killed by the Tibetans....oh, wait...YOU CAN'T!




Taft
just when we thought you could not be dumber every passing day, you prove me wrong again!
Thanks, your priceless!

SSGT: Just a guess here, but I'm bettin'

that Taft was one of those kids who always said, "Yeah, but he hit me BACK!!!!"

Support Eastern Turkistan, too
While we're standing up for Tibet, let's also stand up for the oppressed Turkic peoples of Sharki Turkistan (which the Chinese colonialists named Xinjiang).

The Left loves Communist China and the Falastin movement precisely because they're oppressive, violent, mass-murdering fanatics. Most Lefties suffer from such a great internal chaos they need prisons to which they may flee for refuge.

Anne
morning Lady! Busy day ahead? If I don't catch ya here, you know where later/latter. haha

Hey SSGT: :-)
.

Quite True Dennis
Good article and your points all reference exactly why no one glances at what is happening in China.

Of course, we haven't heard from our panel of anti-semitic trolls yet. Where are Boutte and Fairand Evenminded to pepper us with evil Zionist conspiracies? Maybe they're having their Nazi uniforms cleaned.

In addition to Prager's points..

I suspect that we aren't very aware of what's going on in Tibet because the MSM doesn't bother to report on it, and Tibet is of no real consequence to our national security or economy.

Sadly, neither reason is justified.



Caligula:
The Palestinians do not have the education, training or temperament to successfully hold a high level job. Most of all they do not have the desire. Their job is terrorism and rent-a-mob.
Are you asking for affirmative action for Palestinians?

Tibetans, Turkics And
Kurds. Why can't the Kurds have a homeland?

china and tibet
talking with a chinese emigree to this country he claims china's policy is to move majority populations into countries they want and then try and take over internally. He had no clue as to why china wanted tibet but claims china wants to expand it's borders. He maintained that china is a very ruthless country that would not hesitate to step up the violence if the other tactic doesn't work.

Just NOW FOX is reporting on the Chinese

in Napal...

Guess they're the only ones... as usual.




some good points some not
Prager is right that the ratio of the plight of the Palestinians vs that of Tibetans is askew. But then many other people could be put in the place of the Tibetans, the people of Darfur being an obvious example.

He is also right that Israel gets special focus, well he says because they are white, I think it would be more accurate to say because they are western. But what Prager misses is that Israel gets special treatment in both directions because it is a western country in the middle east. Its mistreatment of the Palestinians gets more attention than that of Sudan or China. But it also gets positive treatment, for example billions in aid, that does not go to those other countries.

What Prager's account misses (more accurately distorts) is that nobody on the left supports China or Sudan or Myanmar, etc. China is now a non-democratic source of labor loved only for its cheap goods and willingness to support our deficit spending. Tibet becomes just one of the many horrible things China does. When one complains about the lack of freedom that Tibetans have in China, the natural response is "and how does this differ from Chinese in China?"

Israel, in terms of support, of trade, etc. gets treated like a modern democracy (which it is) and gets criticized on the basis of being a modern democracy (which seems fair). One can imagine Israel being treated like China, with limits on what technology we allow to go there, with no aid but some trade. I don't think the Israelis would want the trade.

Why Do We Ignore Tibet?
Because most people fear China.

Do you know who Israel...
...belongs to? It belongs to the people who are strong enough to seize it and hold it,and it doesn't belong to anyone else.Just like our country and every other country on earth.

What a bone headed article
We gave Iseral to the Jews. That was a international incident.
Tibet and China conflict is a local issue.

1. We have historicaly nothing to do with Tibet, yet if it was not for our intervention, there would be not Isreal/Arab conflict.

2. Millions of Americans support Isreal for religous reasons.

Denis again sounds like a liberal. "Why does Iraq, and Sadam Genocide get ignored why Sudan's issue rage on after millions of deaths".

Stupid NeoCons are just like liberals.
Liberals want to police the whole world with UN support.
NeoCons want to selectivly police parts of the world with no UN support.

I am not supporter of policing the world, but if we are going to do it, it makes sence to get help.


The Eighth reason is
1 John 5:19.

Christians?
Funny, I was wondering why "Free Tibet" was a popular college hippie slogan, we hear reports about the repression of Falun Gong, but nobody in the media EVER mentions the 80 million Christians being brutally repressed in China?

There are many Christians who are not happy with our cozy trade relationship with this brutal dictatorship. My only reason for continuing to trade with China is that the general standard of living in that country IS improving, even for the poor.

Lon writes:
..."What Prager's account misses (more accurately distorts) is that nobody on the left supports China or Sudan or Myanmar, etc."...

Lon, you are either delusional or outright lying. Either way you are wrong.

You sound like O'blama saying he never heard Rev Wright make racist anti-American statements.

JD's
How can 8 day old Palestinian babies be enemies of the US? Prager's whole thesis is insane, liberals, care for all people, the ACLU even defends cretins like Hannity and Limbaugh. Test it, google Tibet and China, you will see articles on the conflict on msnbc, NY Times CNN, and liberal Human Rights Watch, no Hot Air, LGF, T.H. Fox News, WSJ, ect.

_IgnorerOfTruth_
writes: Tuesday, March, 25, 2008 9:44 AM

..."if it were not for our intervention, there would be not Isreal/Arab conflict."...

reade the Bible, you'll find this situation has existed for quite some time before 1776.

Prager Dreams
What did that foolish Theodor Herzl mean when he wrote that "Palestine is our ever-memorable historic home. The very name of Palestine would attract our people with a force of marvelous potency"? Especially because he wrote at a time when very few Jews actually lived in Palestine, and were vastly outnumbered by Palestine's other residents. But then, they weren't really Palestinians. There was no country called Palestine. There was no Palestinian ethnicity, or distinct language, or unique religion. So stop complaining you so-called Palestinians. You've got no claim that can't be outdated by some others' claim somewhere else. Like those poor Tibetans. You don't hold a candle to them. And don't forget you're all terrorists. Mind you, Jewish terrorism was really freedom fighting. Your's is just evil. So remember this, you don't count and your cause is just an illusion of TV. Go back to where you came from, wherever that is. Go away, stop bothering us. You're unfairly using the media and international organizations and European guilt. Remember Tibet and you'll realize you don't have it so bad. They're high up and you're lower than dirt.

Caligunut
""Israel was completely willing to let Palestinians live and work in Israel, but that wasn't good enough."

How sweet! You can come work (menial jobs please!) in your country after we steal it.

And the sheeple wonder why they have a problem with this!"


On the contrary, ALL the people in the territory that became Israel were invited to participate in the new nation in 1948. Israel was formed from some sparsely populated (but populated with Sephardic Jews, among others) desert land known as the Palestinian Mandate, territory that had been held by the British for some 30 tears after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, which had held the territory (without any apparent protest from the Arabs) for the previous 500 years. The majority of today's "Palestinians", a fake "nation" if there ever was one, were kicked out of JORDAN by the Hashemites, with some accompanying massacres, AFTER the formation of Israel. It was the neighboring, hate-filled Arab countries who encouraged the "Palestinians" to resist and not accept the new state of Israel, with promises of full military support by their Arab "brothers" to drive the Jews into the sea. Their Arab backstabber "brothers" have continued to foment their hatred of Jews in order to conceal their own inadequacies as an inferior culture which has been regressing for over a millennium and is the most underachieving culture in history. The "Palestinians" are merely their pawns.

Why are sheeple such as yourself so easily mislead?

I say follow the money trail...
Arab oil cartels have more money than Tibetan monks and nuns.

And just yesterday, I was wondering another thing, Who the he#@ thought it would be a good idea to hold the Olympics in China? We'll put on a happy face and ignore their human rights violations and state sponsored censorship, just like we fund the UN only for them to smack us in the face every chance they get.

I just don't get it.


Seeker of Idiocy
"What a bone headed article
We gave Iseral to the Jews. That was a international incident.
Tibet and China conflict is a local issue."

Who is "we"? The British? The UN, maybe? What about the native Jews? Did "we" kick the Palestinians out of Hashemite Jordan?

Idiot.

Daft....I mean Taft
No one is worried about 8 day old babies.

Good lord, where have you been? Certainly not in our reality!

Do the names PLO and Hamas mean anything to you?

Are you not aware of the amount of terror attacks and militants there are in Palestine?

More Seeker of Idiocy
"Tibet and China conflict is a local issue"


They are two completely different nations and peoples. How is it a "local" issue?

I have said often that people such as yourself need a 10-year stint in one of Stalin's Siberian gulags, although a Red Chinese jail would certainly be adequate for your ilk. With such an experience, you wouldn't write such idiocy.

Taft
How can 8 day old Israeli babies be enemies of the Palestinians? Liberals care for all people,.. is that right? Including all 50 million plus unborn babies that have been butchered since January 22, 1973? (note I didn't include those murdered prior to that date in ACLU/Planned Parenthood liberal controlled states). Does that include all the ACLU supported partial birth rights? of the money grubbing Dr. Mengeles they defend? Or the abortion survivors that are doomed by the defending ACLU/Planned Parenthood liberal types.
Why there's even a heroic defender of the rights of the unborn running for President..I believe
he attends Trinity United Church of another
Christ. Name is B. Hussein Obama I believe.


kapahulu
"Tibetans, Turkics And
Kurds. Why can't the Kurds have a homeland?"


Precisely! Kudos! The Kurds are the world's most populous ethnic group without a nation of its own. If a handful of Albanians in tiny Kosovo can have the support of most of the world to have their own country, the hypocritical world can certainly support an independent Tibet and Kurdistan. (dream on!)

Taft
Furthermore, were these the same caring for all people liberals that caused us to cut and run from Vietnam after we'd WON the war. You know the useful idiots that pushed the liberal DemonRAT liberal cowards to cut the funding for the war and millions of innocent Vietnamese, Laotian and Cambodians were murdered at the hands of their Communist buddies who took over.
The same baby killing abortion on demand loving liberals who are repeating their glory days blocking and insulting our military; calling them 'baby killers'. I thought so.

Tea Party
That is a good point about the ACLU. The abortion issue, if I had my way, wouldn't be in presidential elections. It should be up to states.

Prager
The answer is actually simple.

It is much easier and safer to pick on Israel than China.

Israel is is the little guy. China is the big guy.

Human nature will always go after the little guy.

USMC (ret)
No doubt you can provide me with names of liberal groups that currently support the governments of China, Myanmar or Sudan. Otherwise it is not me that is lying of delusional.

As Cleverness_of_me notes, Tibet has long been a cause celebre in Hollywood among the left (think Richard Gere as one example). Darfur has a similar status. Nocholas Kristof in the NYTimes has been advocating action as has Mia Farrow representing hollywood. Myanmar has not gotten that much attention from anyone. But since it is a military junta of the type conservatives used to favor and liberals always opposed it is a poor candidate for liberal favorite.

Palestinians
The Palestinians need to wake up to the fact that it is not in the best interest of the rest of the Arab world for them to be a nation. Palestinians are a useful tool in a centuries old hatred.

Wonder why Palestinians do not ask their Arab brethren why they are living like cattle when the rest of the ME lives in abundance?

So much for Islamic charity.

Taft
Liberals care for people? Really?

Yeah you guys care so much that your idea of helping consists of a "Free Tibet" bumper sticker on your car.

Ask to put money or even your life on the line to free people from oppression and you scream "No Blood for Oil" some such other nonsense.

Having lived in the Middle East
I had just moved to China from Kuwait when Kuwait fell to Sadam. Besides the help that Sadam got from the religious extremists in Kuwait, and the Russians who manned both countries missile bases, I know that the Palestinians living in Kuwait also played a part as well. The American Embassy was taken it seems quite easily.

I also know that when the terrorists bombed the towers and the pentagon, and when the news hit Kuwait, the Palestinians went down on the beaches and were celebrating. When the Kuwaiti government learned what was going on, they sent soldiers down there to arrest every one of them, and then when it was all said and done they were deported out of the country.

Arafat, I believe is who discovered he could use the Palestinians to great advantage and I believe he exploited them and manipulated them, until it seems they almost have their identity attached to opposing the existing governments wherever they are.

buzzkat
It was never "their country". We can trace the history of "Palestine" through all of its incarnations. It was "Owned" by Jews, Romans, Turks, Brits, and Jews again. The "Palestinians" never owned it. The fact that nomadic Arabs had settled some of the land hardly makes it a nation.

"Palestine" is a word that derives from Philistine, or Philistia. It was a name given to that land by the Roman Empire, since the Philistines were the oldest enemy of the Jews. The nomadic arabs who lived in that land also lived in Jordan and Egyptian territory, but we do not consider THEM to be Palestinian land do we? I suggest you read up on the history of that region rather than ignorantly beating your anti-Israel drum adnauseum. Oh, for the record: The West Bank and Gaza origionally belonged to Jordan and Egypt.

buzzkat
sorry sorry sorry!!! I did not realize you were quoting someone else! Please forgive me. I Re-read your post and saw my mistake. Your post is cool.

bob writes:
Thanks for what you said, I agree,

I have often thought that the descendents of the Philistines were the Palestinians. They were forever trying to defeat Israel and take their lands.

The country was not prospering when the people of Israel returned from Russia and other communist countries where they were being killed and began to make the country prosper once again.

It should also be noted that not only does the radical Islamic extremists want to take over the world, but China does as well and that is their main goal. We need to keep that in mind when we see our government plunging us into more and more debt and the banker is China now. When I lived in China they said, one day the whole world would speak Mandarin.

It's this simple:
The U.S. political and military power centers inflexibly and without question support Israel's policy towards Palestinians.

And taxpayers continue to pay for it, to the tune of hundreds of billions.

So we **should** hear more about the possible repression of a people if we are paying for it -- in fact, if it could not be happening without the unstinting bipartisan support of our government.

Whatever happens in Tibet, the US has not initiated it, endorsed it, or paid for it.

Ideology aside, those are the facts.

And in typical Lib fashion
Lon now changes his words to claim that he is right....
First:
Lon writes: Tuesday, March, 25, 2008 9:16 AM
...nobody on the left supports China or Sudan or Myanmar, etc.
Now:
Lon writes: Tuesday, March, 25, 2008 10:54 AM
...No doubt you can provide me with names of liberal groups that currently support the governments of China, Myanmar or Sudan.

see - typical lib trick...minor word change causes 100% meaning change.
Perhaps Lon is a Dumb-O-Crap offical and has reserved the right to "ammend and extend" his remarks.

Different Answer to Dennis Question
For the Wetern elites; "only interracial violence is unacceptable."

Blacks genocide against blacks in Africa -or South Central- is the "legacy of colonialism."

Arab on Arab unspeakable crime is a "civil war"

Chinese on Tibetan meat grinder policy is a "public order thing."

Water boarding is "torture" but, Castro placing other Cubans for years in 'tapiadas' is not even worth mentioning.

A Liberal would committ any crime of omission as long as he makes sure to take the side of the non-white.

I know; is horribly racist and arrogant to believe that non-whites simply cannot be expected to operate at the same level of civility as Liberals.

For non whites, is even acceptable not to recycle!

Just don't expect Liberals to explore their own attitudes, they consider themselves by definition morally superior to all.

It is called the enchanting narcissism of the Left.

Chris
"Whatever happens in Tibet, the US has not initiated it, endorsed it, or paid for it.
Ideology aside, those are the facts."

Unfortunately, we do, everytime we purchase the "made in China" rubbish that is clogging our retail outlets.

You are right-on about Israel though.

USMC (ret)
I didn't know people at Townhall made a distinction between Liberals and the left. If you want to provide names of people on the left who are not liberals, I would be perfectly happy with that.

Oh and Dumb-o-crap, that's a good one. I have become somewhat of an afficienado of poop jokes since I have a 3 and a 5 year old. But it is good to see the art form does not go away completely as people get older.

I assume that list of current leftists who support China, Myanmar, and Sudan will be coming any time now.

kapahulu
"The Palestinians do not have the education, training or temperament to successfully hold a high level job. Most of all they do not have the desire. Their job is terrorism and rent-a-mob.
Are you asking for affirmative action for Palestinians?"

This sounds like the same crud southerners said about black people under Jim Crow, all the while that they did not allow them high level jobs and denied them an equal education.

And yes, the Kurds should have a homeland. After what the Turks did to the Armenians, however, I think it will take a major battle to ensure that. I also think it is their problem, just like the Israelis, and not something the US should meddle in.

Xizang
Gets a good amount of attention too, but harder to cover Tibet since the PRC strictly controls access who gets inside the "autonomous" region and if you don't have pictures, you don't get coverage. In 1989 there was a huge uprising in Tibet--the largest since 1959 but it was covered hardly at all, yet Tiananmen got wall-to-wall coverage on CNN and the like--why was that? Because the media was in Beijing that May to cover the summit between China and Soviet-leader Gorbachev and they had lots of pictures, no such thing existed or exists in Tibet.

I would argue that the media and the public at large is more sympathetic toward peaceful Buddhists being wiped out by the Chinese than Muslims--many of which blow up school children. How many free Palestine stickers have you seen on cars? I've never seen one, but I've seen plenty of Free Tibet ones.

If China allowed the media into Tibet, Tibet would be covered, but because the media is heavily image dependent it ignores Tibet mostly.

Joseph Ravitts (AKA Zionist nutjob)
"For those who think that God was joking when He said the land of Israel belonged to, well, Israel."

First of all, the land was not "given" by the sky spirits. Use arguments are not based on Jewish mythology.

"Near the end of the 19th century, the land was controlled by the Turkish Empire, but was almost entirely an uninhabited wasteland. Jews gained the empire's permission to resettle THEIR historical land, and began to develop and improve it. AFTER the Jews had begun making Israel a viable country again with stable agriculture, Arab migrants began filtering in to find employment. Those unorganized migrants are the basis for today's cynical fiction of "the nation of Palestine"--although their so-called nation had to bring in an EGYPTIAN, Yasser Arafat, to run itt."

There were always Arabs living in that region. Also, using your rationale for the Jews' right to this land, then ALL North and South Americans and Australians who are not of aboriginal descent need to immediately give up their land to the natives.

"Along came the British, who promised to support the Jews, but And as for Israelis supposedly routinely murdering Palestinian Arabs: many of the allegations have been proven to be fabricated--like the time a video camera caught an Arab "corpse" GETTING UP at his staged funeral"

That is a load of crap. You are regurgitating AIPAC lies.

and your point is?
Wildwest: "muslim thinking they still believe they have the right to control spain due to the moors conquering it centuries ago."

Well, the argument people have been making here is that Jews (most if whom are white, European bred, non-Shepardics) should have the right to control Palestine because they had conquered it over 2000 years ago.

commie thing
Wildwest" "talking with a chinese emigree to this country he claims china's policy is to move majority populations into countries they want and then try and take over internally. He had no clue as to why china wanted tibet but claims china wants to expand it's borders. He maintained that china is a very ruthless country that would not hesitate to step up the violence if the other tactic doesn't work."

The Soviet Union did this as well with various groups in their borders. I think it's a commie thing.

Xinjiang
Yes, but the Uighers only make up 45% of the region, unlike Xizang which is 92% Tibetian--like saying you support independence for Texas because of its Hispanic population. Xinjiang has been part of China since the 19th century--it was not taken over like Xizang by the PLA post revolution.

In the 1990s the Uighers launched a bombing campaign and the recent Olympic plot and attempt to down a South China airlines plane is no doubt going to have Uigher links--some of which were trained in Al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan--unlike the Tibetians, the Uighers aren't nearly as peaceful and many are no diffent from those that hang around with Osama Bin Laden.

The term Xinjiang means "xin" for new and "jiang" for border.


Buzzcat distortions
I would like to see a reference to validate Buzzcat's contention that "The majority of today's "Palestinians", a fake "nation" if there ever was one, were kicked out of JORDAN by the Hashemites, with some accompanying massacres, AFTER the formation of Israel."

Let's start with:
Mahmound Abbas- Born in Safed, now Israel
Ahmed Yassin- assassinated Hamas leader, born in al-Jura a village near Majdal, now Ashkelon, Israel.
Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi- assassinated Hamas leader, born in Yubna, near Jaffa, now Israel.
Ismail Haniya- born in a Gaza refugee camp, parents from what is now Ashkelon, Israel.
Ahmed Qureia- born in Abu Dis, West Bank near Jerusalem, controlled by Israel.
Nabil Shaath- born in Safed, now Israel.
Salam Fayyad- born Northern West Bank, controlled by Israel.
Saeb Erekat- born in East Jerusalem, controlled by Israel.
Hanan Ashrawi- born Nablus, controlled by Israel.
George Habash, late PFLP leader, born in Lydda, now Lod, Israel.
Mohammed Dahlan- born in Khan Yunis refugee camp, parents from Hamama, depopulated during 1948 war, between Ashkelon and Ashdod, now Israel.
Yasser Abd Rabbo- born Jaffa, now Israel.
Mahmoud Darwish- born al-Birwa, in the Galilee, near Acre, now Israel.
Whalid Khalidi- born Jerusalem, now Israel.
Edward Said- born Jerusalem, now Israel.
Khaled Mashal- born in Ramallah, controlled by Israel.

Jordanians all I suppose.

No Anne
The MSM doesn't cover it because it is impossible to cover. China greatly restricts visas to the Wai Guo Ren (meaning non-Chinese) coming to China, access to Xizang is highly restricted. So in short, the western media is not let anywhere near there. The West Bank is easy to cover-dangerous, but easy. You may get kidnapped, killed, blown up, shot, but getting in with a camera is easy. Getting into Lhasa much more difficult.

The Other Alan
"Especially because he wrote at a time when very few Jews actually lived in Palestine, and were vastly outnumbered by Palestine's other residents. But then, they weren't really Palestinians. There was no country called Palestine. There was no Palestinian ethnicity, or distinct language, or unique religion. So stop complaining you so-called Palestinians. You've got no claim that can't be outdated by some others' claim somewhere else."

Really? Then just what would you call these
"other residents?" It's interesting that you admit that there where few Jews living there, unlike the other pro-Israel people here. They came from Europe to grab the land.

"And don't forget you're all terrorists. Mind you, Jewish terrorism was really freedom fighting. Your's is just evil. So remember this, you don't count and your cause is just an illusion of TV. Go back to where you came from, wherever that is. Go away, stop bothering us. You're unfairly using the media and international organizations and European guilt."

Hilarious! This supports the argument that one man's terrorist is another's freedon fighter!
If anyone is using "European guilt," it's the Jews, forever carping on about the holocaust. (This has been running on longer than "Cats.") If we tell Obama's minister to "get over it" (i.e. slavery and Jim Crow)then they can, too.

Caligula:
You tell me why the Palestinians have trashed the greenhouses the Israelis gave them in Gaza.

Would you want to give an illiterate, uneducated barbarian a high level job? You'd have to be an idiot. If the Arabs were literate, educated and civilized, then they'd deserve a job. Affirmative action did not work here and it will not work in Israel. Besides, why is it Israel's responsibility to provide jobs to the Arabs? Aren't there any jobs available in Arab countries?

Don't Arab countries have universities, manufacturing and high tech companies that need workers? Do they have theatres, libraries, scientific laboratories, architectural and engineering firms, etc. that need workers? No? If not, why not?

Correct me if I'm wrong but the wealthy gulf states bring in Filipino and Indonesian workers to provide manual labor and for other low level jobs. Could it be that the Palestinians simply do not like to work--except for the rent-a-mob gigs, of course.

Donations
I sit and ponder which government influences more to American politics:

China or Palestine?

I'm betting China since so many wealthy dish washing Chinese immigrants seem to donate to the Democratic Party.
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-donors19oct19,0, 4231217.story

If The Palestinians Had Half A Brain
they'd move to an Arab country since they suffer so in Israel.

The Other Alan: I believe Edward Said was born in Egypt. In any event, I don't get your point. Most of the Muslims here in the US were not born here.

Claims on Tibet
While China could do well without Tibet, it no doubt spends more resources on it than it gives to China at large and if China had not been so heavy handed from 1951-1959 and followed through with the 1951 agreement the uprising would never have happened and Tibetians would be no more interested in leaving than those in Gansu are.

But it didn't and the rest is history. Xizang and China have a long and often uneasy history--Tibet in the past even invaded China and Tibet if you use Chinese sources was part of China since the Yuan Dynasty and claims on Tibet have in force from then on--to the Ming, Qing and the ROC. In fact, official ROC maps still claim Tibet (and Mongolia for that matter).

This isn't a commie thing, but a Chinese thing.

No refutations yet
After reading the column, and seeing the very clear arguments that Mr. Prager lays out (very good forensics), and then reading the posts, I can see that, yet again, the Lefties who troll TownHall looking for places to spout and to try to be clever have missed the point once again.

All any of them has done is to write posts full of ad hominem attacks, moral equivalence and specious reasoning. No one has refuted a single thing he wrote.

I'll paraphrase an old "Star Trek" quote, nerdy as that may be: "Liberals do not argue for a reason, they simply argue".

Hillary delenda est.

Good point, Red Castle
Akagi, that is a very good point. It's often lost in discussions about China as a Communist state, that, despite their official state political ideology, they're still Chinese, and they never did shake off their political history, any more than the Russians did.

Son of Heaven, Party Chairman, same thing.

Hillary delenda est.

A Semite's a Semite, no matter how...
"The Other Alan writes: Tuesday, March, 25, 2008 12:48 PM
Buzzcat distortions
I would like to see a reference to validate Buzzcat's contention that "The majority of today's "Palestinians", a fake "nation" if there ever was one, were kicked out of JORDAN by the Hashemites, with some accompanying massacres, AFTER the formation of Israel."

Let's start with:
[small list of Arabs]

Jordanians all I suppose."
--------
Are you incapable of simple searches?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/jordan-civ il.htm
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_jordan_expel_pl o.php
http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/bravo/blacksept1970.htm
http://rwor.org/a/v20/990-99/995/hussein.htm
http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm

Funny how Arabs are only Arabs when they're politically convenient to other Arabs.

China's censorship of what's going on
I just got back from a business trip to Shanghai. CNN was the news program on the TV in my hotel room.
Whenever CNN was covering Tibet, the TV would go blank (both video and audio). After about two minutes, the time it took for CNN to cover the story, the TV came back on.

Government censorship at its best....

Caligula & Kapahulu
Caligula- this was tongue-in-cheek. Go back and read Prager.

Kapahulu- just what is your point? Mine was to show Buzzcat, who contends that Palestine is a 'fake' nation where most are johnny-come-latelies after the establishment of Israel, that much of the leadership was born in, or one generation removed from, what is today Israel.

The fact of the matter is, the Palestinians were and are being pushed aside. Prager would like to define them out of existence and delegitimize any claim they have because they are just a nuisance to his desire for Jewish dominion. That he uses Tibet as a means for moral relativism in his war on Palestinians is pathetic.

Yes I have--Part I
The media doesn't not cover Tibet because unlike the Palestianians--they have no oil, the media is anti-Jewish (is the media then anti-Buddhist as well?), or because the Chinese are non-white.

The reason is simple. Little gets out about Xizang because few people can get inside it. The Chinese tightly control visas to even get to Beijing or Shanghai, let along Lhasa. Entry into Tibet by non-Chinese (or even Chinese) is strictly controlled and very little ability for the western media to get inside it--that is why it is not covered.

And is the conflict in Xinjiang covered? Less than even Tibet and they have resorted to terrorism including a widespread bombing campaign in the late 1990s and if you believe the Chinese a plot to attack the Olympics, so point 1 fails. If the Tibetians tried terrorism, they would not be covered any more than they are now unless they could do something amazing like crash a plane into Zhongnanhai, now that would get coverage. A bombing in Lhasa or even in Beijing, not very likely--again look at the Uighers in the late 1990s.


Yes I have part II
Point by point:

Point 1--Terrorism by the Uighers, the Tamil Tigers, the MILF, etc aren't covered either.

Point 2--yes they are supported by the gulf states, but no evidence this has an impact on US media.

Point 3--People in general support the underdog and many see Israeli as the bully--rocks vs an F15? But most people see China as the bully in Tibet--again, the lack of coverage is due to lack of access not lack of desire. Most in the media are pro-Tibet.

Point 4--Didn't keep the media from covering Tiananmen did it? And it has mostly a military based on a Soviet military from the 1970s.

Point 5--The left is actually very anti-China, it is the right, pro-business side like UPS and Coke and many in the GOP that love China, not the left. It was the left that attacked MFN for China and PNTR and China's entry into the WTO--it was the GOP and moderate pro-trade Dems that supported it.

Point 6--China has been on the Security Council since day 1--it is a founding member of the UN--the ROC withdrew in 1971 and was replaced by the PRC as the legitimate government of China. China has the veto, Israeli doesn't. But the US usually protects it by using it in the UNSC--the UNGA has no power so who cares what they say about Israel there.

Point 7--Actually this point is correct.


Kurds
The other people overlooked is the Kurds who were asking to be recognized as a people before World War I.




Palestinians=TROUBLE
The posters here who note that the Arab nations don't want Palestinians in their own lands are absolutely correct. The simple and undeniable fact is, the Palestinians have made themselves a major headache EVERYWHERE they've ever gone. I knew an American who was in the Israeli army in 1982 and therefore part of its march into Lebanon that year who told me that as the Israeli army advanced through southern Lebanon, the Lebanese Shiites were actually cheering the Israeli soldiers - because they thought that the Israelis were going to expel from Lebanon the Palestinians who had settled there and had made themselves a pest even for their fellow Arabs in that nation. Let's remember that Kuwait took in hundreds of thousands of Palestinians - and in gratitude, the Palestinians cheered for and collaborated with Saddam Hussein and his army when it marched into Kuwait, which is why once we expelled Saddam's forces from Kuwait, Kuwait promptly expelled 300,000 Palestinians from its soil. By September, 1970, the Palestinian refugees in Jordan had created such a problem for King Hussein's government that he sent his army after the Palestinians, killing thousands and expelling many more: this is the event from which the Black September terrorist group that invaded the Munich Olympics took its name. And of course, it was a Palestinian, Sirhan Sirhan, who murdered our own Robert F. Kennedy. The Palestinians are a chronically malcontent people - and therefore I have little sympathy for their plight. If every Jew was gone from the Middle East tomorrow and what is now Israel was a Palestinian nation, it would be another Syria or another Yemen or another Somalia - meaning, another failed Arab state. Let the rest of the world have a bleeding heart for the Palestinians; they won't ever pin it on me.

The Other Alan
"Caligula- this was tongue-in-cheek. Go back and read Prager. Kapahulu- just what is your point? Mine was to show Buzzcat, who contends that Palestine is a 'fake' nation where most are johnny-come-latelies after the establishment of Israel, that much of the leadership was born in, or one generation removed from, what is today Israel. The fact of the matter is, the Palestinians were and are being pushed aside. Prager would like to define them out of existence and delegitimize any claim they have because they are just a nuisance to his desire for Jewish dominion. That he uses Tibet as a means for moral relativism in his war on Palestinians is pathetic."

My apologies. I have a tendency to lose my sense of humor whilst reading Zionist crud from the likes of Buzzkat et al. I saw from your later posting that you do not fall into that camp.

A few things
Another reason that the Palestinians aren't welcomed is the Arab states want the Palestinians to be have their own country, not live in theirs. If the Palestinians were resettled in say Saudi Arabia, the world would see less reason to support a settlement. Thus, the Arab states want to keep the situation as is to keep the problem in place.

Yes, the Palestinians have caused a number of issues--especially Jordan which has a large Palestinian population anyway and some have suggested is the Palestinian state, but if you grew up in a refugee camp, you'd probably not be all that happy with your lot in life either.

Yes, RFK was killed by Sirhan Sirhan, but looking at RFK's socialist policies that he would have tried to enact and perhaps would have been successful, Sirhan Sirhan may have saved the United States a good amount of grief in the long run.


Palestians......
are portrayed as a group being preyed upon by Jews. This is the current left wing rant. Over and over again the Jews are portrayed as aggressors. If one hits a Jew he is not supposed to defend himself because he is a Jew. This is a standard that was universal in the Muslim world when Jews were "allowed" to live in mideast countries. Now when the terrorists hit the Jews they hit back and people do not like that. The Palestinians continue to fire rockets into Israel knowing that the Israelis will attempt to knock out the launch pad which is normally in an area where civilians live and work. These terrorists guarantee that the Jews will end up killing innocents. Of course the MSM and the people around the world ignore the terrorist rule that there are no innocents when terrorists are killed.

The answer
to the question is this: Palestinians are killing Jews and tibetans aren't.

I'll 'ANSWER' that question for you Lon
You wanted the names of "leftist" or "liberal" groups who support China's government (Maoist Communism)? How about:

International Solidarity Movement
World Can't Wait
ASWER
The IWW
San Francisco Revolution Youth
the Bolsheviks
The International Communist League

Before you try and say either "I have never heard of these people" or "They aren't mainstream lefty's" these are the people who organize the vast majority of Pro-Pali/anti-Iraq war protests in this country. So, I have answered your question, are you going to run and hid now?

Maoist communism?
Maoism communism died in 1978 when Deng Xiao Ping began the economic reforms (ju you zhong guo tese de shehui zhuyi) meaning Socialism with Chinese characteristics. I am unsure if the hard left would support China today as China is no more a communist state than Taiwan was in the 1970s--it is a one-party, authoritarian state though.

And most of those that are seen supporting China these days are American and other western multinationals as well as many current and former US officials.

Is Henry Kissinger, James Baker and Colin Powell on the far left too? How about Al Haig? Kissinger has made a good living kissing Chinese pigu (bottoms) for American business. I would have said Kissinger makes a good living sucking on another part of the Chinese anatomy, but didn't want to be totally crass. Most of the left view him as Dr. Evil, and he is quite happy snuggling with the Chinese--is he a member of the IWW too? Who supported getting rid of MFN for China, fought against NPTR and WTO for China--the left is who. China's support today is from the big business and political elites, not disaffected commies. As I said they don't like China so much these days. During the 1990s, Maoists in Nepal used to hang dogs and put signs on them that read "Deng Xiaoping."


Orphan
I checked the ANSWER websites because at least they are a currently active group (even if you misspelled their name) and I could not find any support for Sudan, China, or Myanmar anywhere on them.

Do you know of a source where they actually support the things you said they support? Or would I do better checking one of the other organizations?

As Akagi notes, China has not really been Maoist for some time. And Sudan and Myanmar never were. (ANSWER does support North Korea (or at least an end to our beligerance against North Korea) which is as bad a state as the other three. But there is a difference between saying that the left supports bad countries in general, and that they support particular bad countries.

the palestinian's and the chinese
of course the left has no trouble with the palestinians of with china. The palestinians are your perfect victim group. Incapable of taking care of themselves. Quick to blame others for their own failings and bad decisions, are happy to live on the plantation of entitlements from others and are run by corrupt politicians. So much like america's number 1 victim group. The chinese are just another group loved by the left as they represent the struggle against the evil west. Agrarian reformers have always been a particular favorites of the left. They still whorship che, will suffer deep depression when castro is finally pronounced dead and have no problem with chavez as well. As norman mailer used to lament about capitol punishment it is only evil when the west perfroms it. Third world dictatorships get a pass so they can purge those seeking to destroy the revolution

So much wrong, so little space.
"The chinese are just another group loved by the left as they represent the struggle against the evil west. Agrarian reformers have always been a particular favorites of the left....Third world dictatorships get a pass so they can purge those seeking to destroy the revolution"


Again as I have pointed out--it is the American and western multinationals that love China, not the left. Who continued their China service kickoff as the crew of a EP-3 Orion was being held at Lingshui, Hainan Sheng, PRC? Well UPS is who. Who has been kissing Chinese pigu for 30+ years now, Henry Kissinger, who is kissing Chinese pigu now along with him--Colin Powell and James Baker is who. Who fought to keep China's MFN and fought for China's PNTR and entry into the WTO--well big business elites and much of the GOP--it is the left that attacks China, not the right...then only on the right that have problems with China are a few die-hard pro-Taiwan ones like Dana Rohrabacher and those upset over the treatment of Christians

China ended agrarian reforms in the 1960s as they were proved to be absolute failures. China dumped most of its communist economic system in 1978 and now except for the SOEs is a market economy.

China is not Third World even if the term was still extant, but rather an NIC and as for being a dictatorship, well only if you would claim that Taiwan under Jiang (either of them) or the ROK under Rhee all the way to Roh were.


Can we handle the truth?
C'mon, it's a known fact that Israel treats the Paletinians like dirt. They make agreements with them at photo ops with Americans--then break the agreements and steal their land anyway as they did just recently. Even Condi got her drawers in an uproar over this one.

I haven't all of the posts here
So excuse me if I am repeating an earlier point. The answer to the question is simple, location and clout. The Israeli/Palestianian conflict is being played out in the ME, and area vital to worldwide intersts, the Israelis have many powerfull supporters and lobbyists in DC, and Palestian supporters like Saudi Arabia and Jordan are among our most important allies in ME.

The truth hurts
The reason Palestinians get more air time and sympathy than those in Tibet is because the people of Tibet deserve what they get because they were lobbing rockets into Chinese villages. The Tibetan suicide bombers were going into Chinese restaurants and busses and blowing themselves and the chinese people on the bus to bits. It is in the Tibetan constitution that those lands now occupied by the chinese were stolen from the Tibetan people and they want them back.

The Palestinians are a non-violent people that believe in meditation and have to suffer the unprovoked attack of those JEWS who everyone knows is a gutter religion. JEWS are just plain evil. The Palestinians are a peace loving people.

Tibby

Very cute, tibby
Cute, even if the Tibetians were doing that they still wouldn't get airtime unless they did something like crash a plane into Zhongnanhai.

Did the Uighurs get airtime in 1999?


Arabs won't rest....
The majority of the radical, hateful Arabs will not rest until they see the Jewish people wiped out because they are a peace loving people...remember?

I think not...but the poor Palestinian people who live in huts are not the culprist...they are kept down & used as human bombs by the rich leaders who wouldn't consider themselves bombing material.

There are probably some Arabs who don't hate Jews & Christians...but even they will be hard pressed to live in peace in the Middle East.

Fundamental Islamic Arabs won't ever quit the fight until they are stopped by a power much greater than themselves....& that day is coming ...sooner than we think!

Palistinians
The unvarnished truth is that the Palestinians are having their land invaded by illegal aliens into the West Bank. They have evens set up shop in the middle of major Palestinians cities like Hebron. It is illegal and our policy, is to not allow settlements in the Wet Bank.

http://www.btselem.org/english/hebron/20071015_New_Settleme nt.asp

The pathetic, stupid thing about it is, the Israelis complain about rockets and then move into their homes!

Caligula
"How sweet! You can come work (menial jobs please!) in your country after we steal it."

I believe there is a reward offered for any who can produce an official map, of any era, that depicts the country of Palestine.

The same reward has been offered for John Kerry's service records.



Let me guess
"....& that day is coming ...sooner than we think!"

Let me guess, Jesus right? Or it is Quetzalcoatl again?

Caligula
Who has stolen whose country? What manual jobs? What are you talking about?
You must be living in the Roman Empire. Open any history book or ask people who lived and witnessed the history and learn a tittle.

Israel was established by the UN resolution in 1947 and has been immediately attacked by Arab countries.
Then Nasser, with Soviet armament and advisors started another war. Then yet another. The tiny Israel defeated aggressors who represented some 200 million Arabs, thanks to help given by the freedom loving people of the United States.

Arabs reside, undeservingly, on the biggest oil reserves in the world. This oil should belong to all people, not just Arab kings, sheiks and dictators. That is the real source of the state sponsored terrorism in the Middle East, not Israel. Stagnating Arab countries: 22 of them combine produce less than Spain, isn't this laughable? To contain its people Arab rulers needed an enemy and they found one.

That's why they keep "Palestinians" in the permanent state of war with Israel, despite many chances for the creation of the peaceful state of Palestine. When there's no war, whom to blame for their countries ills?

Israel returned all occupied territories, while countries like Russia, for example, still keeps Japanese Kuril Islands or German Kenigsberg (Kaliningrad), and Poland retains Easter Prussia with the city of Breslau (Wroclaw.) China, by the way, still occupies Tibet.

This article is exactly about double standards. It seems to me that you read but don't understand (or don't want to understand, which is even worse).

Fosson
I'm afraid you're flat out wrong and have no knowledge of the ME. Iraq, had thousands of Christians living peacefully in Sadism's Iraq and Iran has thousand of Christians and Jews living peacefully. The neocons want want some religious war between Muslims and Christians for oil, period, they are amoral scum. Jesus is respected in the Muslim Bible as a great man.

Evil Corporations, Blah Blah Blah...
The Chinese government could enact labor reforms in a heartbeat if it wanted to. I'm quite certain it would have no problem enforcing them. The so-called communist government has sold its own people out, while any ethical treatment of employees is the result of voluntary actions of multinational corporations. Do corporations pay Chinese less than they do Americans? Yes. Are these wages substantially better than what was available before, in cleaner, safer environments? Absolutely.

If the Chinese government wants a minimum wage, minimum employment age, maximum work week, etc., then it should introduce them. But I wouldn't hold your breath. China has exactly what it wants right now.

Sure
As soon as you produce a map of a country (as the term is accepted today) called Israel before 1947. Yes long long long ago there were various Jewish kingdoms and Jewish states, but that gives no more right to claim Israel for the Jews of Europe than the Mongols have the right to rule China today.


China has a min. wage
In Guangdong it is about .30 USD an hour.


Oh and...
The factories in China are owned and operated by Chinese firms who aren't as ethical as your multinationals--who aren't evil, just amoral--e.g. UPS.

There are plenty of examples of mistreatment of workers in China that produce goods for the American market, even goods produced in the laogai system which violates US law.

And China actually has little control over what many of the private firms do in China--if they could you wouldn't wind up with poison dogfood and date rape drugged beads.




Akagi
Of course the European Jews had the right to claim Israel because they are direct descendants of the ancient Israelites. Roman Empire dispersed them all over the world, including Europe. Also many African and Asian Jews now live in Israel.

In my view, it is Arabs who did not have roots in the ancient Middle east since at that time the Arabs were nomads in the deserts, like today's Beduins.

Tell me, is it true that even one of the Japanese tribes consider itself Israelite?

Akagi, this article is not about historic rights and national grievances; it is about public perspective on various aspects of world politics. I'm sure you agree that it is full of double standards? I mentioned earlier the Kuril Islands, for example.

Bryce
You're the ethnic studies major, correct?

To continue, if the Palestinians are treated like dirt by the Israelis it's because they exhibit terroristic behavior. They kill indiscriminately. What are the Israelis supposed to do? What would YOU do if a group insisted on attacking you? Grovel? The problem with the Palestinians is that nobody wants them and that includes all the other Arab countries.

If your feeble intellect will permit, I suggest you read "From Time Immemorial" by Joan Peters. That will teach you about the historical demographics of Israel. At least get your facts straight. Although I suspect you are uneducable unless it's ethnic studies.

Free Tibet is yesteryear's Save Darfur
A couple of comments have pointed to the reality of an older "Free Tibet" movement in the American Left. Recall the bumper stickers back in the 1970s and 80s based on the Tibetan flag with the yellow sun, blue and red rays, and the words “Free Tibet.” You’d find them on the back of a VW Bus or other counterculture vehicles in college communities.

Single syllable action verb, two syllable object.
Free Tibet
Save Darfur

Same uselessly earnest posing, conferences, events, with “activists” and Hollywood spokesmen. Both foredoomed as the people who “care” don’t care enough to get over their revulsion at American military force. This selective revulsion forecloses any effective sanction that would bring the oppressors to the point of either losing or escalating violence from helpless victims to official representatives of America, whose deaths could trigger American counter-force. Not only is it a lie that violence never solves anything, the credible possibility of violence is a necessary, though not sufficient, condition for meaningful application of non-violence coercion (isolation, shaming, economic punishment).

Akagi
Both parties are up to their ears in it with China. The left-at least from a political perspective- are not innocent of kissing the backsides of the Chicoms. Unless you think the Clintons and Gore are conservatives. Did they or did they not have to give back money that came from illegal Chinese sources?

Understand, I am not excusing the right for its coddling of China, I am merely saying that the left is just as guilty.

For Dennis; Good News and Bad
After having read all of the previous posts, I can only respond one way.
I'm sure Dennis is thrilled that his articles receive so many comments. But it must be somewhat depressing to note the number of people reading his articles who are just too stupid to understand them.

Keep up the good fight Dennis.

Steve Francis

PS With special mention to Buzzcat and Bob for the most informed and intelligent contributions.

Tibet
"But it must be somewhat depressing to note the number of people reading his articles who are just too stupid to understand them."

I was too stupid to understand them?

Let's see DP seems to make the point that there is no coverage of the Tibet issue which is totally untrue. He then claims among other things that it is because the left loves China when it is the left that is some of the most pro-Tibet, anti-China forces out there, he claims coverage lacks because the PRC isn't white, but seems to ignore the coverage of Tibet now--seen the protests in places like Greece and ignores the intense media coverage of 6-4-1989--was the PLA white then? Claims the media is anti-Jewish, perhaps, but is the media also anti-Buddhist? he claims the UNGA and UNSC is too, but the reason Tibet goes nowhere in the UNSC is because of China's veto just as anti-Israeli actions go no where in the UNSC because of the US veto. He also claims China was let in the UN when it was a founding member, what happened was the UN seat was given to the PRC in 1971 and the ROC withdrew (and now trying to return as either the ROC or Taiwan).

He claims the oil-rich gulf states are pro-Palestinian, true, but doesn't show how this effects the US media's coverage of Tibet.

His only correct point was that China restricts outside media access to Tibet and this is the reason it gets no coverage. Trying to find some anti-Jewish conspiracy in the Tibet coverage is simply silly.

China
Yes Bob, but some of that money such as Gore's came from Xi Lai Se (Hsi Lai Temple) in LA and belongs to Fo Guan Shan of Kaohsiung County, Taiwan, not China. Of the three major figures in Chinagate, one was Taiwanese, one came to Taiwan when he was 4 and his father a big figure in the KMT and only one had strong links to China.

And it was big business like Hughes, etc that pressured Clinton to move export controls to DOC from DOS. Again, even during the Clinton years it was big business that was the most pro-China, not the left. The far-left in the Senate were some of the biggest anti-China forces--people like Boxer. It was mostly the Democrats that tried stop China's MFN from 1990 until yes Clinton granted it PNTR and it was the Democrats that tried to stop PNTR and opposed China's entry into the WTO. It was pro-business GOP members of Congress that saved China's trade relations with the US, not the left.

Clinton governed--thanks to people like Morris--as a moderate. He was pro-free trade and pro-China trade. He and his allies in the GOP and pro-free trade moderate Democrats kept trade links with China and was supported by business, like UPS, Coke, etc just as they push for free trade with China now.

China's biggest friends in the US are big business and elites like James Baker and Henry Kissinger, not some leftist college student. The only ones on the far left that support China all that much are China experts you find in polsci and history departments at universities and at the China desk at State. Most on the left dislike China, to say Tibet isn't covered--a pet cause of the left--because the left likes China is mindless.

Tibet--Part I
You can see "Free Tibet" stickers on cars to this day. A Icelandic singer got in a little hot water in China a few weeks ago by shouting pro-Tibetian Independence slogans at a concert in China, but this is not a "Communist" China thing, but a China thing. China has claimed Tibet (known as Xizang in Chinese which means western treasury)since the Yuan Dynasty--the 13th century to 14th century although Tibetian historians claim Tibet was ruled as a seperate entity. It was claimed during the Ming and Chinese rule established again during the Qing, China lost control during the late Qing as China grew weak vis-a-vis the west, the ROC continued to claim it--as it does offically to this day along with Mongolia and the PRC gained control in 1951. The only way to have stopped this was to send US troops and since the US was unwilling to save Chiang in 1948, it was unwilling to save Tibet in 1951 (or Taiwan in 1949 or early 1950).


Tibet--Part II
The only way for Tibet to be free of China is for China to wake up one day and decide Tibet is not worth it--states are often unwilling to allow its territory to walk away--Tibet to the Chinese is as much as part of China as Texas is to Americans and if you recall Lincoln--a name the Chinese love to invoke--didn't allow Texas to walk out. Same with Taiwan--my own pet cause--as long as China is unwilling to allow formal independence, Taiwan will be unable to formally break away.

Lee Deng Hui, a personal hero of mine and the spirtual leader of my party--the TSU floated a suggestion of a Chinese Confederacy like the EU in a way that would include semi-sovereign regions of China, Tibet, Xinjiang, Taiwan, Neimenggu, HK and Macau--China rejected this absolutely, so unless the US is willing to go to war with China over Tibet or China is willing to let Tibet go, Tibet will stay part of China as the old foreign policy saw states--strong countries do what they will, weak countries endure what they must.

Thus Tibet must endure Chinese rule and Taiwan must endure only de facto independence.

Israel
"Of course the European Jews had the right to claim Israel because they are direct descendants of the ancient Israelites. Roman Empire dispersed them all over the world, including Europe. Also many African and Asian Jews now live in Israel."

And they have no more right to make claims on land that their ancestors perhaps occupied 2500 years ago than Mexicans have the right to claim New Mexico or the Mongols claiming China.

The Israel clock starts in 1948 not 4000 b.c. or whatever date you want to pull out and as for "there was never ever a state called Palestine." Okay, and never a state called the United States before it was created or Mexico or Belgium.

"Tell me, is it true that even one of the Japanese tribes consider itself Israelite?"

I doubt it since outside of the Ainu, Ryukyu Islanders and a few hold overs from the larger Japanese Empire--the Taiwanese and Koreans, and Sakhalin Islanders--the Japanese has but one main tribe--the Yamato and they believe they came to Japan directly via the creation.

"this article is not about historic rights and national grievances; it is about public perspective on various aspects of world politics."

But DP is simply wrong on almost every point. As I have pointed out Tibet isn't covered because it is virtually impossible to cover it. If Israel treated the Occupied Territories like China does Tibet, you'd not get much coverage there either. His points of coverage bias vis-a-vis Tibet simply aren't supported by the facts.

A Commie Thing
This is not a Chinese thing, but a Commie thing to say that:

1. "Communism died in 1978 when Deng began Socialism with Chinese characteristics."

(What difference do these two "isms" make? It's just a low-low commie trick!)

2. "China is no more a communist state than Taiwan was in the 1970s."

(Republic of China established in 1912 was the first democratic republic in Asia. PRC is a communist state run by the gangs of 80 million communists.)

3. "A founding member of the UN--the ROC withdrew in 1971 and was replaced by the PRC."

(Dirty plot by the Soviets and the useful idiot, Jimmy Carter, the infamous leftist. Today, the ChiCom has twisted the U.N. arm to rewrite the history on the wall of its entrance hall stating shamelessly "PRC is the founding member".)

4. "Tibet...was part of China since the Yuan Dynasty."

(It was a Mongolian Empire. To call it a "Dynasty" of China is vanity or rather, inferiority complex, which some ChiCom educated dissidents call it Han Chauvinism. The ChiCom brainwash machine often includes Genghis Khan as a Chinese ancestry)




Charles, the fool--Part I
1) Deng reforms in 1978 make calling China communist idiotic--communist regimes don't have stock markets, private property or free markets. China is a mixed economy with run by a one-party authoritarian state.


Charles the Fool Part II
The ROC was never really democratic--not in 1912, not in 1924, not in 1948. The ROC declared martial law and something known as the "temporary provisions during the period of mobilization for the supression of the communist rebellion in 1948, suspended most parts of the constitution giving the president rule by decree, froze members of the Li Fa Yuan and Guo Min Da Hui (now no longer extant) from the 1948 elections in office for life, killed as many as 3,0000 Taiwanese during 2-28 and killed or forced into exile thousands more during White Terror. In 1979, there was a major riot in Kaohsiung when the KMT tried to close down an anti-government magazine known as Mei Li Dao Za Zhi) where many of those in the dangwai movement were sent to prison. Chen Shui Bian's wife was most likely disabled by a KMT attempt to kill him in 1985 when a "runaway truck" struck her.

The ROC continued a blacklist of exiles well into the 1990s keeping out anti-government activists such as Peng Min Ming Min. The ROC also kept a tight control of the media, didn't allow for new parties outside of the KMT, the China Democratic Socialist Party and the Young China Party.

In 1987, the ROC lifted Martial Law. In 1991 it ended the temporary provisions during the period of mobilization for the supression of the communist rebellion had full elections of the Guo Min Da Hui. In 1992, there were full elections of the Li Fas Yuan and in 1995 direction elections of the mayors of Taipei and Kaohsiung and the Governor of Taiwan Province and in 1996, the direct election of the presidency, so the ROC was not a democracy until 1996, and it most certainly was not a democracy in 1970 or 1979.




Charles the Fool--Part III
Resolution 2578 was sponsored by Czechoslovakia--not the Soviets. It was though the Taiwan issue that made it boycott the UNSC in 1950 which made it impossible for it veto the UN action in Korea.

This was on October 25, 1971 (ironically on Taiwan Retrocession day--the date Taiwan was "returned" to China in 1945), Jimmy Carter was at the time the Governor of Georgia, he had nothing to do with this. The President was Richard M. Nixon and the US Representative to the UN was George H.W. Bush who was trying to get a deal to have the ROC have a seat in the UNGA, but have the PRC take over the "China Seat" in the UNSC as well as a seat in the UNGA. It walked out before 2578 passed and the UN refused to vote on the US measure. Probably a bad move on Chiang's part--since 1991, the ROC has tried to re-enter the UN as the ROC and since 2005-2006 or so Chen has pressed it to enter as Taiwan. There was a plebiscite on this issue this weekend which the entire world condeemed--including the US--but it failed.

As for the PRC as a founding member, I guess it depends on your opinion is the PRC the secessor state of the ROC.

Oh and in the 1970s as my previous post indicated the ROC was very much like the PRC today.

Because
China is big and scary. Israel is small and not quite so scary, and therefore a more convenient target. Also, China is a communist country which means it has allies among western leftists and liberals. Israel is nominally a Jewish state - therefore not so many allies.

Charles the Fool--Part IV
The Yuan Dynasty is considered a non-Han dynasty of China by any Chinese historian--in the west or in Asia. So was the Qing also not a Chinese dynasty? The dynasty that re-occupied Tibet? Oh and explain then why the Ming claimed Tibet too or the ROC for that matter. Ever seen a map of the ROC? I have a few of them bought in Kaohsiung--they show Tibet and Mongolia as part of the ROC, the ROC has a Mongolian and Tibetan Affairs Commission under the Executive Yuan, seems at least officially the ROC claims Tibet.

Is then the ROC communist too?

Again Charles in regards to this subject--I am not exactly the person you want to cross swords with. Any other facts about China you'd like to impress us with since you know so much like that Jimmy Carter was President in 1971 or the ROC was a democracy during "bai se kong bu"--ever heard of a place called Ludao? How about something called taiwan jingbei zongse lingbu? I in fact have stayed in the military hotel right across from the TGC's HQ when it still existed. Could look out over it from my window.

Oh how did those mass graves end up in Taipei County that were found in the 1990s? Do democracies round people up and make them vanish without trial and dump them in mass graves? Do democracies have a secret police like the TGC or freeze people in office for nearly 50 years?

If the ROC was a democracy since 1912, I'd hate to see what you think was simply authoritarian.

No..no and no
"China is big and scary. Israel is small and not quite so scary, and therefore a more convenient target. Also, China is a communist country which means it has allies among western leftists and liberals."

Almost every news agency on the planet has a bureau in Jerusalem, how many have one in Lhasa? if there is trouble on the West Bank you are maybe 15 minutes away, if there is trouble in Lhasa you are 2,5000 miles away in Beijing. By train is takes 47 hours even if the Chinese would let you in--which they won't.

You don't see too much coverage of the Tamil Tigers or the MILF either are these a conspiracy too?

And Tibet is a pet cause of the left and China since the reforms in 1978 and especially since the 6-4 incident as it is called, China is not really in good graces with the left. It is big business that likes China, not the left. The left are some of China's biggest critics--just look at the MFN and PNTR debates--it was the left attacking these, not the right.


Correction
My typing messed up--Peng Ming Min of course not Peng Min Ming Min from part III.

LeftMedia's Consistent Religious Bigotry
The dominant media culture must nag us about so-called Palestine and keep the focus off Tibet. They do so because of their Humanist religious training.

Which was the bigger tragedy during the WWII era? Japanese-Americans kept in internment camps, or over Six Million Jewish people exterminated in Third Reich concentration camps? It is well known that during that era, a responsible American news media was justafiably more horrified at the Holocaust, not the relatively few people temporarily held in camps on American soil.


So how is it that we are directed to agonize over the non-nation of 'Palestine' while people in the legitimate, historically documentable Tibet suffer much more horrific treatment? Why do we spend billions for the squatters in the legitimate nation of Israel in the middle-east, while ignoring Tibetan citizens and their oppression by Communist China?

It is because of LeftMedia, which because of its Humanist religious principles (http://www. jcn. com/manifestos. html), is compelled to give its socialist brethren in China a pass while relentlessly haranging 'evil' America and Israel over the 'plight' of the so-called Palestinians.


Dennis Prager has done us a great service by exposing a prime example of the human cost of LeftMedia's man-centered, Humanist, messianic religious bigotry, censorship and biased reporting.


Liberals do NOT care for people.
We know that they hate Christians and Jews but have made crazed Moslems a "protected group"; that groups such as ANSWER and International Solidarity receive funding from the North Koreans and from George Soros; that they idolize the late Chairman Mao (hence China); and have no problems with China's one child policy of forced abortion. We know they hate babies in the womb, especially one B. Hussein Obama, who voted against the born alive infants act for babies who manage to survive the abortionist's deadly instruments. Oh, yes: libs are filled with love for their fellow man - not! Look at the signs they carry at their crazy rallies as an example - notice how much they hate the USA and yes, they hate Israel also.

Is Akagi Stupid or Just Dishonest?
Akagi asked:

"I was too stupid to understand them?", referring to my earlier remark that many readers appeared to be too stupid to understand Dennis' collumns.

And then in an attack on Dennis' collumn, Akagi writes:

"Trying to find some anti-Jewish conspiracy in the Tibet coverage is simply silly."

It is clear to any thinking person who reads Dennis' article, that the anti-jewish bias in the media was indicated as a cause for the intense world focus on the palistinian problem. It was not offered as a factor in the lack of coverage of the Tibet situation.

I therefore must conlude that Akagi is either in fact too stupid to understand Dennis' collumn, or utterly dishonest in his attempt to twist Dennis' points into statements he never made, in order to make the article more vulnerable to Akagi's feeble assaults.

I will leave it to the readers and to Akagi himself to determine which is the case. I suppose that the answer might also be: All of the Above.

Steve Francis

ChiCom Apologist
Echoing what the Chicom propaganda machine has spewed about Tibet, East Turkistan, and etc. this professional blogger (aka Qina Intelligence, or aka Gushing Idiot) masquerades as a "China" expert to fool some of the TH readers who do not read Chinese.

The Nazis Germany and the Fascist Italy had stock markets too. To have stock market does not change the beastly nature of the ChiCom which is but an unprecedented organized crime of unprecedented large scale, from treason to murdering, from prostitution to stealing, doing all the utmost evil things man has ever seen in the history.

Czechoslovakia was a communist country in the 70's; so Czech initiative in the UN was the Soviet's or ChiCom's. Nixon and George H W Bush though Republicans were also useful idiots for the ChiCom.

About the 2.28 tragedy in Taiwan, there are many discussions of different perspectives by Chinese. One thing for sure is that the ChiCom had been very active underground in Taiwan before 1949 and is even more now.

Hey, Qina man, read the book written by the ChiCom educated historian, Professor Xin Hao Nian, titled "Drive out Marxism-Leninism, Return to traditional China (Zhong Hua)" which will tell you the truth about ROC, Kuomintang, and ChiCom that you'll never learn from Wikipedia or organizations and publications covertly controlled by the ChiCom beast.

Ali
You are a nut case! Most liberals, as well as conservatives, detest China, as it is a tolitarian state with horrible human rights abuses. Supporting forced abortions is not being pro-choice (the key word there is "choice"). I have never heard of any American, liberal or conservative, who has spoken anything in support of this forced abortion policy.

It is the corporations who reap huge savings in salaries and benefits who support China for its cheap work force, which comes without all those pesky worker safety requirements and minimum wage laws.

Liberals also are against hate of any group for racial or religious reasons. This is probably one of the reasons that most non-white and Jewish people vote for Democrats in this country.

Winston829
"Israel returned all occupied territories, while countries like Russia, for example, still keeps Japanese Kuril Islands or German Kenigsberg (Kaliningrad), and Poland retains Easter Prussia with the city of Breslau (Wroclaw.) China, by the way, still occupies Tibet."

Ever heard of the West Bank or Gaza?

Where in the hell are you living? Some AIPAC-designed fantasy land?

Looks like you are the one who needs to learn a lot.

kapahulu
"You tell me why the Palestinians have trashed the greenhouses the Israelis gave them in Gaza."

It's the Israeli rockets that destroyed them. If you think the Occupied Territories are "greenhouses," you need to get an education.
I was just forwarded an interesting video tonight that will show you.

Video by Richard Falk
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.fullscree n&videoid=1380469430

"Besides, why is it Israel's responsibility to provide jobs to the Arabs? Aren't there any jobs available in Arab countries? Don't Arab countries have universities, manufacturing and high tech companies that need workers? Do they have theatres, libraries, scientific laboratories, architectural and engineering firms, etc. that need workers? No? If not, why not?"

Actually, they do have Palestinians working in countries like Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Unfortunately, like the Filipinos and Pakistanis hired to work in the Gulf States, they are often abused or at least treated as below second class.
My question to you is: why should these people have to travel outside of their country to work? Would you think it would be fine to have a law in the US that all blacks or Asians have to go find work in Mexico or Canada?

Bulwark
"I believe there is a reward offered for any who can produce an official map, of any era, that depicts the country of Palestine."

Palestine was colonized by the Brits after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. It was a region of the empire. No one said it was ever technically a country, but the residents were called Palestinians. This is similar to the Kurds today, and until recently, the Armenians. Before the state of Israel was created, the people there were not called Israelis.


ChiCom Apologist
Akagi,

Your statement “If Israel treated the Occupied Territories like China does Tibet, you'd not get much coverage there either.” Is very dishonest?
Why do you say that? That statement alone makes the rest of what you say, quite suspect as to its accuracy or interpretation of any countries history, especially your own if you are truly Chinese. You know there would be ten times or more of a worldwide protest over such treatment of the Palestinians, especially by the world’s Left, than there has ever been over what China has done in Tibet---beginning in the early 1950's.

I think TH Commentor (Steve Francis), and especially Charles, probably have it right regarding your agenda. I sent Dennis’s column to a friend. He said, “The main reason is Walmart. How could he [Dennis] have missed that!”--- to which I replied: “Most of the stuff in Walmart is made in China---neither Tibet, Palestine, nor Israel, has any Oil. If Oil is a much stronger motivating force than the cheap Chinese goods in Walmart, he [Dennis] probably forgot about all that 'Chinese Oil’.”

Charles
Chaersi, ni kandedong zhongwen?

If so, perhaps you can explain to us all about baise kongbu or taiwan jingbei zongsi lingbu?

And Time Bomb, I think you don't understand my point. If Israel denied the media access to the occupied areas they wouldn't be much coverage either. Palestine is covered because access is easy, Tibet isn't because it is difficult to get access. China rarely allows western media into Tibet, but Israel does.

And and Charles, we aren't saying the Chinese regime isn't brutal--when have I said that, only it can't be correctly viewed as a communist state. Oh and to be honest my expertise is on Taiwan, but due to history and the like I do have a pretty good command of China--unlike you who claimed the ROC was a democracy before the Lee reforms and As a former resident of the ROC and an employee of the KMT, I think I have a pretty good grasp of the ROC and the KMT--enough to know that the ROC was not a democracy in the 1950s or 1970s or even the 1980s.


And Caligula, I wouldn't say that China is a tolitarian state, but it does have horrible human rights record.

"I have never heard of any American, liberal or conservative, who has spoken anything in support of this forced abortion policy."

I have--some American anthropologists who seem to think that population control in China is a worthy goal.


and BobL:

"It is because of LeftMedia...is compelled to give its socialist brethren in China a pass...

If true then why do those on the left attack China for its treatment of Tibet--you don't see many cars with Free Tibet stickers with W '08 ones as well. Why was the left the most harsh in its critique of China during MFN and PNTR debate?





Oh and Charles
2-28, the CCP have claimed in the past it was communist compatriots trying to remove the Jiang thieves and the KMT in the past have also stated that it was "commie bandits" who started it all (gong fei).

But objective analysis clearly show it was heavy handedness by the KMT in Taiwan from 10-25-1945 until 2-27-1947 that sparked this not any communist plots. The native Taiwanese were treated like second-class citizens, their language (tai yu) supressed, Taiwanese fired only to be replaced by mainlanders, and things like food and other supplies shipped from Taiwan to the mainland. After 16 months of this the Taiwanese had had enough.

Yes, there were communinists in Taiwan before, 2-28, Lee Teng Hui was a member of the CCP--you think he is one now?

I am sure there is some undercover work in Taiwan from the mainland--especially among the heishehui on both sides, but do you think there is any support for the CCP in Taiwan or unification? If so the tracking polls by Zheng Da (Cheng Ta) haven't picked it up and these polls have been running for at least 15 years and conducted every 6 months.

Chi Com Apologist Akaqi, Part I
Perhaps I missed your meaning on that one point, but it seems perhaps that I understood your overall point very well in context.

Your explanatory statement was, "If Israel denied the media access to the occupied areas they wouldn't be much coverage either," was made in the context of, "And they [the Jews] have no more right to make claims on land that their ancestors perhaps occupied 2500 years ago than Mexicans have the right to claim New Mexico or the Mongols claiming China."

How about applying that to China's Invasion of Tibet? Where did I miss your doing that? If you did, please point it out again. Somehow, I did not see it. The closest thing I have been able to discern is you saying that the present Chinese Government is technically no longer communist, a la Marx, and is guilty only of some degrees of human rights abuse?


Chi Com Apologist Akaqi, Part II
Why doesn't the ‘Chinese clock in Tibet Start in 1950, not in some ancient Chinese Dynasty, or whatever date you want to pull out, as for there was never ever a state called Tibet, and never a state called the United States before it was created or Mexico or Belgium? After all, today’s Chinese are about as related to today’s Tibetans as today’s Jews are related to the ancient Hebrews. Yet you relate that to “the Mongols claiming China?”

Why is that? Why not say? : ‘the Chinese claiming Tibet,’ That is today’s context — not the Mongols claiming China in ancient times! Do you think the Mongol’s ancient claim on China is a valid justification of what China is doing in Tibet because the Tibetans are Mongol and are not Chinese?

It appears, those who disagree with what you say understand very well what you mean because what you say that you mean is not what you are saying! Your political propaganda-obfuscation technique for purposes of brainwashing appears very proficient! Its subtle undercurrent still appears to be a ChiCom. Apologetic.

I think we may be getting a taste here of what U.S. Soldiers, but captured by the mainland Chinese while defending South Korea’s from the Communist Invasion in the early 1950's, were having to listen to. Are the Koreans of Mongol descent as well? Please educate us on those kinds of matters if you will. I have not heard your point of view before, ‘straight from the horse’s mouth,’ so to say.





ChiCom Apologist - akagi
By quoting his own words at 4:40 pm:

"And Caligula, I wouldn't say that China is a totalitarian state, but it does have horrible human rights record.",

the case is closed.




Time Bomb
I support independence for Tibet as I do for Taiwan and Xinjiang too as for as that goes..hell even if Hubei wants to go..fine by me. I think that Lincoln was wrong about Georgia and Texas as far as that goes as well.

The point you miss is that this is not a communist thing (even though China is not really communist), but a Chinese thing. China has had claims on Tibet for nearly 700 years--even the ROC officially claims it--along with Mongolia.

"If Israel denied the media access to the occupied areas they wouldn't be much coverage either," was made in the context of, "And they [the Jews] have no more right to make claims on land that their ancestors perhaps occupied 2500 years ago than Mexicans have the right to claim New Mexico or the Mongols claiming China."

Not at all. I dispute as valid the claim the land is theirs because God promised it to them 2500 years ago..blah blah blah blah. My comments on why Tibet is not covered--which is untrue--is based on access the Chinese allow. On the Atlanta Journal Constituition yesterday, Newsweek for this week and various other print and broadcast media this week have coverage on Tibet and nothing on Palestine, I guess that again disproves DP's thesis. China allowed the media in--when you have access, you have coverage.


Sorry chaersi, China is not a totalitarian state. It was under Mao, the Soviet Union under Stalin, the Nazis, the DPRK.

China today in fact has a large degree of freedom. It is an authoritarian state--just as the ROK was and the ROC was and I would argue the Republic of Singapore still is.

Totalitarian states regulate nearly every aspect of public and private life--this is simply not the case in China today.


what about personal opinions?
I agree with Mr. Prager's analysis based on a state's opinion, but what about one's personal opinions? Sure a state can support "Palestinians" because they fear terrorists attacks or higher oil prices. But an individual - what do they really think? In my opinion, when a person supports "Palestinians" (and knows the true history, as Mr. Prager has pointed out) he/she does so simply because they are anti-semetic. I'm sure if Israel was murdering and looting the Tibetans, it would be front page news and there would be world-wide protests.

Not if you didn't know about it
People have been complaining about the treatment of Tibetians at the hands of the Chinese for years. Did DP miss the recent coverage of what has been going on in Tibet? But when you have no access what are you going to cover?

"Now for the situation in Tibet, we don't know what is going on there since we have no one inside Tibet or any contacts inside Tibet, but be assured whatever is going on is really really bad."

And not everyone who is pro-Palestian or anti-Israeli is anti-Semetic. People tend to not react well when rock throwers are met by M16s or gunships and a family's house is blown up for the actions of someone that is said to have lived in that house--something both the Nazis did and the British did in Palestine--collective punishment. Or a man's whole olive grove is cut down because the Israelis claim it was used to hide snipers. Often the Israelis react not much differently than the Chinese do in Tibet.

Oh and the Chinese seem to be pretty good pals with the Israelis too--since weapons jointly developed by the US and Israel was sold to the Chinese.


Communist ventriloquist puppet
The above title can be awarded to akagi according to the following briefs (or he, aka gushing idiot, has got "a personal stake in believing it")

"News of the Day"(March 27) by D. J. McGuire:

'Gordon Thomas, citing sources with the British Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ), says that members of the Communist military force, "posing as monks, triggered the riots that have left hundreds of Tibetans dead or injured"'

'In one of the more embarassing moments in diplomatic history, Lu Shumin - Communist China's Ambassador, cited Nazi propaganda as evidence that Tibet was a violent and backward place before the cadres "liberated" it in 1950 (CBC and CTV).'

"China's propagandists in Canada" by Ezra Levant on March 27, 2008:

'Communist China is properly taking a shellacking for its pogroms against Tibet. China's political talking points -- clunky Communist rhetoric reminiscent of Mao's Little Red Book -- have made a joke out of that country's pretentions of being a respectable member of the family of nations. No-one alive thinks that the Dalai Lama is an evil man, or even a Nazi as Beijing's official clowns in Ottawa called him. If anyone's Nazi-like, it's China, with their Mengele-like harvesting of organs from Chinese political and religious dissidents.

No-one is buying that -- unless they've got a personal stake in believing it. And in Canada, that means a phalanx of Communist ventriloquist puppets, mouthing what their masters in Beijing tell them to say.'


Dear Chi Com Apologist Akagi, Part III
That it is a "Chinese thing" is not based on any kind of universally recognized moral principle. Nor is what the Government of China is doing in Tibet the same kind of thing as Israel’s willingness to live peacefully with the Palestinians if they would simply reciprocate. Before the Jews began returning to their ancient homeland, the area mostly was a sparsely populated, mosquitos infested swamp.

The so-called “Palestinian” Muslim population began to grow as the industrious Jews made the place habitable and desirable. That is not the same in Tibet. In Tibet the population of cultural Tibetans has been shrinking due to Chinese Invasion's persecution of Tibetans who love and cling to their ancient culture. That is the true parallel-- not the one that you, Akagi, dipict. There was nothing in or about Tibet being done by Tibetans to attract any Chinese.

The problem in Palestine has been the Muslim "Palestineans" brought their ancient hatred of Jews along with them. What the Government of China began when it was Communist China and is continuing to do in Tibet would be a simple retaliation as a Chinese thing for something that you, being a modern man, probably do not know what it is?

Isn’t what you are trying to excuse, if not justify, a bit too much parallel (not in kind but only in principle) to the Muslim hatred of Jews simply because Abraham, under pressure from his wife Sarah, banished his concubine, Hagar, along with their son Ishmael, to go live in the wilds of the Arabian desert? Similarly, I wonder how much of China’s, and Mongolia’s, true prehistoric history you or anyone really knows?

The "Chinese thing"
What you cite as the "Chinese thing" is not based on any kind of universally recognized moral principle. In effect, you are saying the Chinese are inherently beasts. I do not believe that is true. What the Government of China is doing in Tibet is not the same as Israel’s willingness to live peacefully alongside the Palestinians if they would stop their terror attacks. Nor are the Jews trying to wipe out the Palestinian's ancient native culture.

Before the Jews began returning to their ancient homeland, the area mostly was a sparsely populated, mosquitos infested swamp. Few so-called ‘Palestinians’ were living there. The so-called Palestinian Muslim population began to grow as the industrious incoming Jews made the place an increasingly habitable and desirable as a place for everyone to live. Prior to that the surrounding Muslim countries were not materially interested in the area.

The situation is not the same in Tibet. In Tibet the population of native Tibetans has been shrinking--not growing due to the persecution by the incoming Chinese Government of those Tibetans who still live there, and who love and cling to their ancient homeland and their 14000 yr old religious cultures. That is the true parallel--not the false Parallel that you depict. The false parallel is equivalence between the Jewish willingness to include benefit of the Palestinians materially, or, if that is rejected by them, to leave their culture alone and let them have a separate Palestinian State that is not set up for use by terrorists.

The Chinese view of the native Tibetans, however, is seen in their effort to wipe out the Tibetan's culture from the outset of their invasion, and to persecute any practice of the Tibetan’s religion by any Tibetans remaining in Tibet. Clearly there is no parallel between the Israeli Jew’s necessary treatment of the terrorist Palestinians and the Chinese invasion of peaceful Tibet whatsoever in that regard!


The True Parallel
The true parallel you are looking for, Akagi, is the similarity between the Palestinian Government run by terrorists and the Chinese Government that is still being run by the same breed of Chinese Communist terrorists as before. Those are Chinese Terrorists who previously got rid of their Marxist economic system only because it doesn't work, in order to better compete with the free market economics system of the West. They would like through that to dominate the West with their totalitarian ambitions. The reason communism a la Marx didn’t work is that human nature is not perfectible. Their totalitarian viewpoint however is the same.

The Government of mainland China is essentially totalitarian to this day. The bet which businessmen and freely elected Governments in the West made is the Chinese Government allowing a limited free market economics system in China will eventually undermine the totalitarian Chinese Government. The Chinese Government of mainland China however is still essentially totalitarian in its world view and international outlook. That is why the majority of the people of Taiwan who, like the people of the United States that love Liberty (especially religious Liberty), do not really want to be ruled by the mainland Chinese Government.

A few things--Part I
First, Chaersi. Was the 1959 uprising caused by Chinese agents too or 1989? The claim that the recent unrest was sparked by agents dressed as monks is simply foolish. The uprising was caused because yet again the Chinese as the 50th anniversary of the 1959 uprising is approaching and the Olympics in a few months time, the security forces in Tibet started acting heavy handed and once again the Tibetians grew tired of it--with good cause. The ultimate blame is of course with the Chinese.

And time bomb

"Before the Jews began returning to their ancient homeland, the area mostly was a sparsely populated, mosquitos infested swamp."

This is exactly the same thing white South Africans said about South Africa, before the Whites came, South Africa was mostly devoid of people and the blacks came there after the whites turned the area into a properous area.

"I wonder how much of China’s, and Mongolia’s, true prehistoric history you or anyone really knows?"

Chinese prehistory thanks to archaeology is actually very well documented. And 14,000 years? Buddhism has only been around for about 2,500 years and then it was restricted to India.


A few things--Part II
"What you cite as the "Chinese thing" is not based on any kind of universally recognized moral principle. In effect, you are saying the Chinese are inherently beasts."

Not saying that at all. Saying that China, be it Yuan, Ming, Qing, ROC or PRC has claimed Tibet so to lay this claim only on the PRC is not based on historic fact. Was the Ming Chao Communist?

"The Government of mainland China is essentially totalitarian."

To say this is to have a total misunderstanding of totalitarian regimes or the PRC in 2008 or both.

"That is why the majority of the people of Taiwan who, like the people of the United States that love Liberty (especially religious Liberty), do not really want to be ruled by the mainland Chinese Government."

I agree with this mostly. Although, like Japan today Taiwan is pretty secular. Taiwanese are more concerned with political and personal freedom as well as economic freedom. But it is more than that--even if China was fully democratic many Taiwanese simply feel they are Taiwanese, not Chinese--a growing sense of nationhood and this won't be erased simply if China becomes democratic. China feels the pro-independence forces are due to economic and political differences. I disagree. I think more and more see themselves as non-Chinese and this won't change even if the political and economic systems of the two-sides become similar.

The Ancient Swamp
Akagi

"This is exactly the same thing white South Africans said about South Africa, before the Whites came, South Africa was mostly devoid of people and the blacks came there after the whites turned the area into a properous area."

Don't know about South Africa, but it is factually true in regard to Palestine.

"Chinese prehistory thanks to archaeology is actually very well documented. And 14,000 years? Buddhism has only been around for about 2,500 years and then it was restricted to India."

Looks like I got an extra zero in there. What I intended was the 1400 years that Prager said, which is reasonably accurate.



Authoritarian is Not Totalitarian?
Akagi

Why play games with words that essentially mean the same thing? You seem mixed up intellectually in regard to the most important of things. Please note that one aspect of the definition of totalitarian is “authoritarian; autocratic.” Capitalism deals only with economic (hence material) gain and loss. There is no significant distinction between totalitarian and authoritarian where the morally civilizing influence of religion is not allowed by a totalitarian/authoritarian Government.


au-thor-i-tar-i-an
–adjective 1. favoring complete obedience or subjection to authority as opposed to individual freedom: authoritarian principles; authoritarian attitudes.
2. of or pertaining to a governmental or political system, principle, or practice in which individual freedom is held as completely subordinate to the power or authority of the state, centered either in one person or a small group that is not constitutionally accountable to the people.
3. exercising complete or almost complete control over the will of another or of others: an authoritarian parent.
–noun 4. a person who favors or acts according to authoritarian principles.

Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.



to-tal-i-tar-i-an
–adjective 1. of or pertaining to a centralized government that does not tolerate parties of differing opinion and that exercises dictatorial control over many aspects of life.
2. exercising control over the freedom, will, or thought of others; authoritarian; autocratic.
–noun 3. an adherent of totalitarianism.


Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

Buddhism restricted to India?
Akagi,

Please know that Buddhism was not restricted to India in ancient times. It was brought to China by a Monk, Bodhidharma, and became widely accepted in China.

Bo·dhi·dhar·ma

–noun died a.d. c530, Indian Buddhist philosopher and missionary: founder of Ch'an in China, which was later called Zen in Japan.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.


Buddhism in China
Hey Akagi,

Your sentence "Buddhism has only been around for about 2,500 years and then it was restricted to India." does not puzzle me much. If you are a Professional ChiCom Apologist, you would wish that Buddhism was restricted to India.

Here is more of the relevance regarding Buddhism in China. Buddhism almost disappeared in India but it flourished in China--right up into modern times. That is, until Chairman Mao who was China's first Communist took over. Marx was an atheist. One has to be to believe materialism is all that motivates human behavior.

With Mao began the purging of all religious practices in China, including Taoism which is indigenous to China. Not only was organized religion almost wiped out, but the personal practice of anything remotely suspected of being religious as well. That, as the Communist totalitarian/authorial legacy, is what continues to this day.

“In October 2007, the new statute of China cites religion as an important element of citizens' life. Some restriction on religions said to have political agenda (Tibetan Buddhism and ban of Xiantianism and Falun Gong) persist.” (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_China)

With what your "authoritarians" are still doing in Tibet, the above sounds out dated. The Chinese Government is obviously regressing, not progressing -- i.e. it is progressing backwards!

Buddhism in China (coninued)
Akagi,

What you obfuscate (maybe just a little bit deliberately?) is that, until relatively recently China was mostly Buddhist and Tibet became entirely Buddhist with their Buddhism having absorbed the native Tibetan Bon religion elements. Until recently, though Chinese dynasties 'claimed' Tibet as you say, they claimed it more as a familial Buddha land, or territory, and did not molest the Tibetans or try to wipe out Buddhist religion in Tibet. Tibet had remained peacefully isolated for 1400 years until Mao's Communist Revolution.

That is why you sound like something of a ChiCom Apologist, as Charles initially pointed out. Whether you are, Professionally, or not, I don’t know – nor does it matter here much. You could be simply "well educated" politically, but naively and woefully---perhaps even willfully, or nihilistically ignorant.

What matters is, the views you are expressing both distort and give no coherent meaning to the facts of History.

“Chinese Buddhism refers collectively to the various schools of Buddhism that have flourished in China since ancient times. These schools integrated the ideas of Confucianism, Taoism and other indigenous philosophical systems so that what was initially a foreign religion (the buddhadharma) came to be a natural part of Chinese civilisation albeit with its own unique character. Buddhism has played an enormous role in shaping the mindset of the Chinese people affecting as it has aesthetics, politics, literature, philosophy and medicine.
During the Tang Dynasty while at its peak of vitality, Chinese Buddhism produced numerous spiritual masters.“ (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Buddhism)




Nope
"Authoritarian is Not Totalitarian?"

It is not. So while states like the ROC, ROK, PRC (post-Mao) were or are authoritarian, they would not be considered totalitarian--e.g. Nazi Germany or the DPRK.

My point of Buddhism was your idiotic claim that the Tibetians are practicing a religious culture dating back 14,000 years--which would be the last ice age. Whatever religion the paleolithic peoples of what is Tibet today practiced, it was not Buddhism. My point was--how could the Tibetians be followers of a religion 11,500 years before it was founded--and then only practiced in India. I am quite aware of the history of Buddhism.

Actually. until recently, China was mostly Daoist--or to be precise Chinese folk religion which is still the dominate belief system in Taiwan--a mixture of Daoism, ancestor worship and folk beliefs.

Oh and I am curious as to another point you make. If there were no Arabs until the Jews made Israel prosper, who was there to riot against increased Jewish immigration in the 1920s?

Oh and if I am If you are a Professional ChiCom Apologist (a term that makes you look like an idiot), I must be a strange one. Know any pro-PRC types that support the TSU?

Chaersi, is an idiot and citing him makes you look as one as well..."jin zhu zhe chi, jin mo zhe hei."

Chaersi said that in Chinese the CCP is known as Hua Gong Chan and because in Jianti each is 6 strokes, thus 666. The problem with that is CCP in Chinese is Zhongguo Gong Chan Dang which is 48669. He then went on to say Zhongguo was a modern term when it dates back to the mid-Zhou. And I could go on and on.


Agaki, you could go on and on . . .
Why are you being so intellectually dishonest? I can see you are losing the argument because you responses are becoming increasingly irrational.

Your Chinese words don’t prove anything to me (and I would guess almost no one else here) because I don't read Chinese or know Chinese, and I am not going to believe you are not ‘full of it’ just because you speak Chinese. Your statements in English alone show how limited your view is of the subjects involved in the things that you are saying.

Authoritarian and totalitarian are virtually synonymous. Why don't you explain where in the Chinese Government's administration of the capitalist economy which they have adopted they are not?

Also, I said: "Looks like I got an extra zero in there. What I intended was the 1400 years that Prager said, which is reasonably accurate."

Why is that not good enough for you?

There were some Muslims in “Palestine” prior to the Jew’s return in the 1920's. What I said is, the Muslim population grew along with the work which Jewish population did to make the area habitable for more people. The so-called Palestinians were not doing that.

Correspondingly, the area’s Palestinians now live in are wrecks by comparison with Israel because they devote themselves to hating Jews rather than making more livable the areas where they live.

The Palestinian culture is primarily devoted to hating the Jews. To doing things like building homemade rockets to launch into Israel, suicide belts for mentally retarded Muslim women to walk into groups of people in Israel--where the women are then detonated by remote control.

Even now, if the Palestinians would devote themselves to actually building and having a separate State of Palestine, rather than these kinds of things, they could have Peace with Israel.


Wrong!
Agaki,

You say:

"Actually. until recently, China was mostly Daoist--or to be precise Chinese folk religion which is still the dominate belief system in Taiwan--a mixture of Daoism, ancestor worship and folk beliefs."

So sorry, but that is not quite true as regards' Buddhism, unless you wish to discount nominal adherents to Buddhism that have never taken the formal step of going for refuge!

Either way, the point you seem to be trying to make is weak!

See, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_China

Religion in China has been characterized by pluralism since the beginning of Chinese history. Temples of many different religions dot China's landscape, particularly those of Taoism, Buddhism, and Chinese folk religion. Mahayana Buddhism remains the largest organized religion in China since its introduction in the 1st century.

The majority of Chinese people follow Buddhism (between 660 million, 50%, and over 1 billion, 80%) and/or Taoism (400 million, 30%).

Number of adherents to these religions can be overlaid in percentage due to the fact that some Chinese consider themselves both Buddhist and Taoist. Buddhists are mostly nominal adherents because only a small proportion of the population (over 8% or over 100 million) may have taken the formal step of going for refuge.

Minority religions are Christianity (between 40 million, 3%[14], and 54 million, 4%[15]), Islam (20 million, 1.5%), Hinduism, Dongbaism, Bon, and a number of new religions and sects (particularly Xiantianism and Falun Gong).

Buddhism only practiced in India?
Agaki

You say:

". . . and then only practiced in India. I am quite aware of the history of Buddhism."
Please note from what I posted above:

"The majority of Chinese people follow Buddhism (between 660 million, 50%, and over 1 billion, 80%) and/or Taoism (400 million, 30%)."

How laughable that you are saying you are aware of the history of Buddhism along with where and when it has not been practiced. Obviously you are not aware of the history of India, nor do you appear to be aware of the history of Buddhism in China!

The Tibetans cannot make peace with the current Government of China unless they give up their Buddhism because the Government of China wants, obviously, to wipe out Buddhism in Tibet.
That is not the same as Palestinians who could make peace with Israel if they would give up their hatred of Jews and their terrorist attacks on Israelis.

Why you apparently cannot acknowledge this, I do not understand unless you are a moral idiot?

Sorry...No speak chinese!
Australians are mortified at the new leftie Prime Minister Kevin Rudd who is so puffed up with his own self-importance......he speaks mandarin chinese and we are never going to hear the end of it......Chinese have named him Lu Kewen. He is acting like an abominable pekinese at the leg of China.....

Quote from Timebomb to Agaki..."Your Chinese words don’t prove anything to me (and I would guess almost no one else here) because I don't read Chinese or know Chinese, and I am not going to believe you are not ‘full of it’ just because you speak Chinese."
I had a good laugh at this Timebomb....So true, this is being said about our ghastly "Lu Kewen" who adores China and pretends to be humanitarian. His feet will be held to the fire of decency whether he likes it or not.

To TrueBlue and Dennis
"The Surveys conducted by a variety of organizations generally agree that the number of Tibetans slaughtered by the Chinese between 1950 and 1984 is probably around 1,200,000."

Actually this fact jeopardizes your theory. Quoted from Patric French's article on NYTIMES, http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/22/opinion/22french.html

"However, after scouring the archives in Dharamsala while researching my book on Tibet, I found that there was no evidence to support that figure"

Also there are some other good points in this article if you want a balanced position on this issue.

To realitybytes
"Sorry...No speak chinese!"

What's wrong that Prime Minister Kevin Rudd can speak Chinese? You need to raise some concrete points about what he did on this matter, not what language he can speak!

To: Time bomb
You mentioned "Because the Government of China wants, obviously, to wipe out Buddhism in Tibet."

This is untrue. There are evidences show that Government of China allocates gold to decorate Buddhism temples in recent years. And I don't think your comment makes sense since I did visit a few Buddhism temples in China.

Why?
Same reason Israelis get more attention than Taiwanese.

Prager is right --- for the wrong reason
Indeed, Tibet should get more attention that Palestine. After all, I don't care a hoot about two semitic tribes (jews and palestinians) killing each other. And yet, we hear more about this conflict because the JEWISH LOBBY wants the U.S. to wipe out their muslim enemies using, of course, American money and lives (the percentage of jews in the U.S. Army is very low). It's time for the U.S. to get out of the Middle East and let those barbarians kill each other.
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