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Tuesday, November 20, 2007
Dennis Prager :: Townhall.com Columnist
America, Here Are Your Democratic Presidential Candidates
by Dennis Prager
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


If you want to know what the Democratic presidential candidates and the Democratic Party believe, the debates, often derided as intellectually inconsequential, reveal a great deal. The problem is that news media almost never report the most important statements the candidates make. Here then are some of those statements from the most recent debate, followed by a comment on their significance.

Joseph Biden on how he'd handle Russia: "Who among us is going to pick up the phone and immediately interface with Putin and tell him to lay off Georgia because [Georgian President] Saakashvili is in real trouble?"

Sen. Biden says he would pick up the phone and tell Russian President Putin "to lay off" a neighboring country. Hasn't one of the Democrats' primary criticisms of the Bush administration been that it engages in "cowboy diplomacy"? And what exactly does Sen. Biden think President Putin's response would be? "Yes, President Biden, whatever you say." Yet they say that President Bush is disengaged from reality.

John Edwards on Americans going hungry: "Thirty-five million Americans last year went hungry. . . .This [election] is about those 35 million people who are hungry every single year."

There is no truth to this charge against America. The only basis for it is a U.S. Department of Agriculture Report saying that about 35 million Americans experienced "household food insecurity" in 2006. That term does not, the USDA emphasized, mean hunger, but being forced to reduce "variety in their diets" or eat a "few basic foods" at various times of the year. If a country could sue for libel, America would have cause to sue Mr. Edwards.

Barack Obama on giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants: "When I was a state senator in Illinois, I voted to require that illegal aliens get trained, get a license, get insurance to protect public safety. That was my intention."

Obama on not giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants: "I am not proposing that that's what we do. What I'm saying is that we can't -- [interrupted by laughter]. No, no, no, no, look, I have already said I support the notion that we have to deal with public safety and that driver's licenses at the state level can make that happen. But what I also know, Wolf [Blitzer], is that if we keep on getting distracted by this problem, then we are not solving it."

What exactly is Sen. Obama's position on giving licenses to illegal immigrants? Clearly, he is for it and against it. But most importantly, he opposes being distracted by it.

Dennis Kucinich on giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants: "I take issue with your description of people being illegal immigrants. There aren't any illegal human beings, that's number one."

Who ever said anything about "illegal human beings"? "Illegal immigrant" describes one's immigration status, not one's humanity. Such a statement embarrasses public discourse.

Hillary Clinton (discussing Pakistan) on the link between democracy in an Islamic country and American security: "There's absolutely a connection between a democratic regime and heightened security for the United States."

Isn't that precisely what President Bush has been saying for years about Iraq? And isn't that idea exactly what Democrats have held in contempt?

Bill Richardson on why the surge is not working: "We shouldn't be talking about body counts. One American death is too much."

In assessing whether a change in military tactics is working, a man who seeks to be commander-in-chief says that "we shouldn't be talking body counts." And why? Because "one American death is too much." If someone had asked Gov. Richardson if a new traffic policy that greatly reduced traffic fatalities were working, would Gov. Richardson have responded, "We shouldn't be talking body counts . . . one American death is too much"?

Obama on the surge (Blitzer: "I'll put the same question to you: Is General Petraeus' strategy working?): "There is no doubt that because we put American troops in Iraq -- more American troops in Iraq, that they are doing a magnificent job, and they are making a difference in certain neighborhoods. But the overall strategy is failed, because we have not seen any change in behavior among Iraq's political leaders. And that is the essence of what we should be trying to do in Iraq."

The "essence" of what troops do in war is vanquish the enemy. What does a "change in behavior among Iraq's political leaders" have to do with the question of whether the troop increase is working?

Clinton on whether she exploits her gender for votes: (Campbell Brown: "Senator Clinton, you went to your alma mater recently, Wellesley College, and you said there that your tenure had prepared you to compete in the all boys club of presidential politics. At the same time, your campaign has accused this all boys club surrounding you on stage of piling on with their attacks against you. And then your husband recently came to your defense by saying that these, quote, 'boys,' had been getting rough with you and some have suggested that you, that your campaign, that your husband are exploiting gender as a political issue during this campaign. What's really going on here?"): "Well, I'm not exploiting anything at all. I'm not playing, as some people say, the gender card . . . . "

In light of the question, I will leave it to the reader to determine the credibility of the denial.

Richardson on whether he would pull out all contractors from Iraq ("You know that Senator Obama has said he would pull out all of the private contractors if in fact he was president. But in light of how stretched our military is, do you think that's a practical solution?"): "Yes. I would pull out all the contractors."

Who then would Sen. Obama and Gov. Richardson have do the work of reconstructing Iraq?

Obama on raising the taxable salary on Americans paying social security taxes: "What we can do is adjust the cap on the payroll tax. . . . Understand that only 6 percent of Americans make more than $97,000, so 6 percent is not the middle class -- it's the upper class."

According to Sen. Obama, a family of four whose gross income in $96,000 is in the upper class. All Americans should understand who Democrats consider "rich" when they speak about increasing taxes on "the rich."

Clinton, Obama and Edwards on abortion as a matter of privacy ("Senator Clinton, would this be a sine qua non for you, that any nominee you name to the Supreme Court would have to share your view on abortion?"):

Clinton: "Well, they'd have to share my view about privacy, and I think that goes hand in hand [with abortion]. Privacy, in my opinion, is embedded in our Constitution."

Obama: "I would not appoint somebody who doesn't believe in the right to privacy."

Edwards: I would insist that they recognize the right to privacy and recognize Roe v. Wade as settled law."

It is worth noting that many pro-choice liberal scholars, such as Harvard Law School's Laurence Tribe, have spoken of Roe v. Wade's using the right to privacy to legalize abortion as poor law. There are rational arguments to be made on behalf of not criminalizing every woman who has an abortion, but arguing that killing a nascent human being is only a privacy matter is not one of them.

Obama on America teaching Muslims to love or to hate America: "We're not just going to lead militarily; we're going to lead by building schools in the Middle East that teach math and science instead of hatred of Americans."

Another Democrat who believes that anti-American hatred in the Islamic world is America's fault, and that it therefore can be undone by building schools there. And President Bush is alleged to be "disengaged from reality."

Clinton on how Americans should begin to act: "Let's enlist the best that we have in America and start acting like Americans again to solve our problems and make a difference."

Sen. Clinton uses this phrase -- "Let's start acting like Americans again" -- repeatedly. If this is some code phrase on the Left, fine. But the rest of us do not know what it means. When did Americans stop acting like Americans? And what does "acting like an American" even mean?

These are the some of the words and thoughts in just one debate of those seeking the Democratic Party's nomination as its candidate for president of the United States.

It is also important to note that as in every previous Democratic debate, not one candidate mentioned "jihadist" or "Islamic" or "Islamist" terror.

And one of them may well be the next president of the United States.

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About The Author
Dennis Prager is a radio show host, contributing columnist for Townhall.com, and author of 4 books including Happiness Is a Serious Problem: A Human Nature Repair Manual.
 
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Sure
The Democrat(ick) candidates are bad.

Let's be honest, some of the GOP candidates want amnesty. Rudy, McCain, and Huckabee have all been very illegal alien friendly. Know what you're voting for.

If you want to keep your country, you must elect someone who will enforce the laws and secure the border.

It boggles the mind
The vapidity of the discourse coming from the Dems gives me a headache.

who would reconstruct iraq
how about the iraqis mr. praeger.

when did conservatives come to believe nation building was a core value.

Heaven help us...
if the Democrats win in 2008. We will also have a problem if Rudy, McCain or Huckabee win. The illegal immigration debaucle will contine because all three of them believe in "comprhensive immigration reform" or amnesty.

Today Rudy said "I believe in a virtual fence." Yikes! Are you kidding me? Haven't the Republicans learned anything yet?

The only way we win in 2008 is by electing a president who would enforce our laws and end this dispicable amnesty agenda.

Acting like an American
It is easy to define what "acting like an American" means.

America was founded on the idea that everyone should be equal, and those more able are obliged to assist those who are not. Just as our constitution declares, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need", Hillary recognizes that we need to return to traditional America where the government ensures equal outcomes for all citizens. This is the basis for income redistribution provisions, and to act like Americans we need to support Democrat demands for higher taxes on the rich and transfer payments to the poor.

Acting like an American means supporting government responsibility for the happiness of the citizenry. True Americans love socialism, so we need to start acting like Americans by supporting the drive for socialized medicine and larger government.

Hillary is correct in pointing out that it is time that we start acting like Americans. The best way to act like Americans is by insisting that the government take care of all of our basic needs, including health care, housing, wage negotiations, education, and so forth.


Robert you were sort of right
Robert writes: Tuesday, November, 20, 2007 12:13 AM

That is why we are winning in Iraq...we have a change in behavior among Iraq's political leaders just at the local level...

Seesh

Robert

-----

OK, but Obama said: "But the overall strategy is failed, because we have not seen any change in behavior among Iraq's political leaders."

So Robert, if you are correct, and change in political leaders includes leaders at the local level, and that was so glaringly implicit in the question, then Obama is a total fool for a presidential candidate, since he can't even see what is so painfully obvious to you. Seech [sic]

misrepresentations
Prager misrepresents Obama. He obviously was referring to replacing the madrassas that teach hate with real schools, he was not "blaming America".

Richardson was referring to the failure of the warring factions in Iraq to reach political reconciliation, while agreeing that the surge has hewlped reduce the level of violence.

Richardson and Obama were referring to private MILITARY contractors.

Hillary and Obama disagreed on the $96,000 figure, so attributing his opinion to "Democrats" is a lie. Plus which the context was the payroll cap on social security, which is clearly regressive. And if the top 6 percent are not at the top of the income ladder, the term ceases to have meaning.

Prager's descent continues.


Since when
...is it our responsibility to build schools of any kind in Iraq?

All the Dems have shown is that they "must differ with Bush" no matter how inane their positions get.

This kind of drivel is why I don't even bother to watch the "debates." They are nothing but stupid sound bites with no substance.


Loyal Democrat
Are you joking? If not, then you are seriously mistaken. The founders of this country stated that we are all created equal, not that our government ensures equal outcomes for all its citizens.

The phrase "From each according to his ability, to each according to their need" did not come from our constitution - it is straight from Karl Marx and is a communist philosophy.

You are really scary if you think that to act like an American we 1) have to support Democrat demands for income redistribution, 2) support socialized medicine and 3)embrace a larger government.

I am a true American and I despise socialism. Nor do I want to relinquish responsibility for my life (housing, wage negotiations, education, health care and "so forth") to a socialist who thinks they know better than me what is good for me. Or where I can live. Or anything else.

I hope people wake up and smell the coffee before the next election.


Loyal Democrat
Loyal Democrat obfuscates: Just as our constitution declares, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"...

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need (or needs) is a slogan popularized by Karl Marx in his 1875 Critique of the Gotha Program.

Just making sure everyone knows what "constitution" Loyal Democrat is loyal to.

I still believe the US is great because of equal opportunities, not equal outcomes.

Loyal Democrat
Thanks!

For such a hot-shot lawyer, Hillary still doesn't understand what the PURSUIT of happiness means.

That means getting up off your fanny and working for it.

For those who came in late...
Loyal Democrat is one of TH's most brilliant parodists. Too subtle for some, apparently.

Good Grief
Do the last two posters really not recognise satire when they see it?
And people still wonder what's wrong in American education.

Purplegimp
Of course I do! Please read posts before jumping.

labor lawyer............
comes up with the following 'solution': - "replacing the madrassas that teach hate with real schools."

Perhaps you could first tell the rest of us how we should go about replacing such madrassas here in the U.S. (because such DO exist). Then you could go on to explain how you propose to replace the madrassas in Saudi Arabia (and other radical Islamic hotbeds) with "real schools".

Why do you liberals INSIST your theoretical 'solutions' which have no possibility for becoming reality are the answer? Obviously sir, you're too lazy to properly analyze any given problem. Instead, you mouth glib, nonsensical, utterly unrealistic platitudes - because they make you feel good. They are not real solutions because they don't address reality.

Loyal Democrat
Great one!

You always manage to catch a couple with your prose!

Just goes to prove what people will believe the far Left is capable of saying with sincerity.

Satire... thy name is Loyal Democrat.

Loyal Democrat, remember Washington
Don't forget George Washington, our first President, who famously said about lies, "A lie told often enough becomes truth."

Our loyal Democrat Presidential candidates are clearly sticking to this principle.

gretske
I sort of disagree.

Miz Hillary is patently lying, mainly because it would take an idiot to believe that their previous statements (which she routinely contradicts) won't be on record. And whatever else she may be, Senator Clinton is undoubtedly not an idiot. (That's her so-called "husband's" main claim to fame.)

Based on her repeated attempts at such obfuscation, I am forced to conclude that like a certain (highly "progressive") aunt of mine, Ms. Hillary is a compulsive liar (a trait she shares with her former "co-President", Bill), and will lie even when it would be to her benefit to tell the truth. Just to see if she can get away with it.

The rest of the Dems, OTOH, are not lying, AFAICT. They honestly believe in the Alice In Wonderland worldview they express. And to me, that's scarier than the Hildebeast.

But not much.


cheers

eon

Hey, don't blame the folks who
fell for Loyal Democrat. I was taken for a while there...

The left is so looney that its hard to tell when they are kidding. Example: Obama as a serious candidate. Change his skin color and he's a nobody. Dennis Kucinich...I mean COME ON!!!

Need I say more?

well said on this, Dennis Prager
quotes from column:
Dennis Kucinich on giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants: "I take issue with your description of people being illegal immigrants. There aren't any illegal human beings, that's number one."

Who ever said anything about "illegal human beings"? "Illegal immigrant" describes one's immigration status, not one's humanity. Such a statement embarrasses public discourse.

What exactly is Sen. Obama's position on giving licenses to illegal immigrants? Clearly, he is for it and against it. But most importantly, he opposes being distracted by it.

************************************************

Generally, the libs are contorted on ILLEGALS because they have been stunned by the righteous indignation of > 70% of Americans who CLEARLY want the border closed, EXISTING laws enforced, and have little interest in "Regularization" (see all 'Crats, Sanctuary City Rudy and the Huckster for Scamnesty) for border crashers and visa violators who foist IMMENSE socio-economic pathologies on America. We can ONLY benefit on balance from EDUCATED, SKILLED immigrants who arrive LEGALLY and embrace becoming Americans. Nobody is fooled by drivers license shell games aimed at voter fraud for the left. No jobs, no freebies, NO STAY!

Yes eon
I agree. Hillary IS a pathological liar. The rest are just plain stupid. Funny, so is Rudy. Yikes! Either way we're screwed. : - O

I watched the "debate" just to see
what these clowns would come up with and to see if Blitzer would ask intelligent questions.

What a joke on both scores. Is this field the best the dems can come up with?

If they really believe their ideas are good for the country, they are ignorant of history and economics, otherwise they are liars who should be impeached.

Not one showed any leadership potential, just pandering to the voters with their hands out.

One good debate on the merits of privitizing SS or allowing it to go on to bankrupt our grandchildren would show the populace just how disengeneous these fools are.

the dim candidates
thye dims continue to use smoking mirrors to promote their process of selecting a candidate. It has always been their intent to run the missus clinton and everyone else was window dressing to give the illusion there was serious debate. The field is comprised totally of double talking political lightweights filling the stage to give the appearence of diversity of ideas. The dims one and only choice has been the return of the clinton's. The others are merely auditioning for the useless position of vp. Should the dims win there will be the return of the co-presidentcy and the parties nominal choice of vp will be banished to the hinderlands rtather than interfer in the clinton agenda. The dims/leftists/socialists hail the return of the clinton's. I don't believe that would be in the best interest of america. They failed during their last eight years in office

Loyal Democrat is
To anyone new here, Loyal Democrat is our resident satirist, and it is easy to be taken by him because what he says usually is just the logical extension of liberal thoughts and positions.

As to the article itself, the Democrats are what they are...clueless! One day these clowns are going to wake up and realize that campaigning as the opposition to GWB is outdated, because GWB isn't on the ballot. And those that go to the polls to vote for them will probably be shocked that W isn't on the ballot to vote against, because that has been their sole obsession for years now. As much as the media will try to give them a boost, the Democratic field is really no strongre than the GOP field at this point.

Aha, the real point D.P. wants to make!
re:
It is also important to note that as in every previous Democratic debate, not one candidate mentioned "jihadist" or "Islamic" or "Islamist" terror.

And one of them may well be the next president of the United States.

*****************

I knew that the neoCON brayer would have to remind us that we need to remain in the M.E... nation building in Iraq is just a front for establishing our 18 military bases there... let's see, who might benefit from those bases in the region? Hmmm. Will $2 TRILLION be enough for America to spend? That is $25k per American household, arguably paid for to date with S.S. extractions and yet more national debt. Ditto hmmm.

YO,LD!
Where you been,man? I missed ya!

I'd Vote
for Loyal Democrat if he won the donkey party nomination.

I Dunno Guys...
...this Loyal Democrat fellow sounds about 98% accurate to me. What he (she?) has written is essentially what I've heard from Democrats since Johnson's time and I'd take it as pure Gospel if I were you. Even if it is d**ned good satire. Which it is.

lodestar
Question.

What part of dead americans in the hands of Islamic terrorists don't you understand?

Please enlighten us!

Response to Loyal Democrat
The commenter named as Loyal Democrat makes the classic mistake.

The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution guarentee equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome! Given the opportunity, the outcome is the responsibility of ONLY the individual.

During the first 125 years of our country, tarifs, duties, and excise(use) tax placed the cost of government squarely and equally on purchasers, it has only been in the last (not quite) 100 years that we have attempted to tax the rich. So to say that the founders or anyone that even met them believed in equality of outcome, wealth redistribution or socialism is to be totally clueless.

96k for a family of four?!
My fiance and I, a family of two, make that amount. We live in a modest apartment in Allentown, Pa. We both drive cars that cost much less than 30k and shop at outlets. Not exactly "rich" in my opinion. For people who complain about the gap in wealth, they set their expectations for the wealthy pretty darn low.

Obama and education
Obama's comment on education in Islamic countries is not a bad idea. A true victor continues the defeat with teaching children otherwise the revolt is just held off until they get stronger or we get weaker. However since people are pushing for education to become more localized here in the US rather than being controlled by Washington, it would be hard to imagine how we would go about restructuring education in foreign countries, languages, religions. Maybe Obama knows something having been raised in a Madrasssah in Indonesia. Saudi Arabia manages to open schools and push its sick view of Islam- Wahhabiism worldwide. Yet the dems are the first people to object when Bush sets up radio in a foreign country to give a different view of America, like he attempted to do in Iran. Also re Iran, the republicans lost control of the radio station and ended up hiring with our tax dollars a man from CNN who was antiAmerican and last I heard, nothing was done about it.... as the book title goes "crazies to the Left of me, wimps to the Right of me: how one side lost its mind and the other its nerve".

Bush's Iraq strategy
"The 'essence' of what troops do in war is vanquish the enemy. What does a 'change in behavior among Iraq's political leaders' have to do with the question of whether the troop increase is working?"

Because in numerous public statements, President Bush himself had said that the goal of the surge was to set the stage for POLITICAL RECONCILIATION. In fact, in his January 2007 speech to the nation on TV, Bush endorsed the set of Iraq benchmarks that Congress wrote into legislation. He said:

"A successful strategy for Iraq goes beyond military operations. Ordinary Iraqi citizens must see that military operations are accompanied by visible improvements in their neighborhoods and communities. So America will hold the Iraqi government to the benchmarks it has announced....
"We will double the number of provincial reconstruction teams. These teams bring together military and civilian experts to help local Iraqi communities pursue reconciliation, strengthen the moderates, and speed the transition to Iraqi self-reliance. And Secretary Rice will soon appoint a reconstruction coordinator in Baghdad to ensure better results for economic assistance being spent in Iraq."

http://tinyurl.com/tv789

So if you think that all that matters is military success, go argue with Bush because that's not what he said.

Hillary on Spin Cycle
Prager writes: Hillary Clinton (discussing Pakistan) on the link between democracy in an Islamic country and American security: "There's absolutely a connection between a democratic regime and heightened security for the United States."

Isn't that precisely what President Bush has been saying for years about Iraq? And isn't that idea exactly what Democrats have held in contempt?

******

This is so monstrously frustrating. For the past year, Hillary, Nancy, Harry and a chorus of others have been singing a completely different tune - that we need to get out of Iraq -- that there is no connection between US security and our military/diplomatic efforts in Iraq -- etc, etc. She speaks with such a forked tongue that I wonder if she has any genuine personal values anymore. She articulates one set of values for the Soros crowd, another for the Daily Kos crowd, another for the Black caucus, another for "regular Americans" during the debates, and on an on and on.

another one
bites the dust...go LD

SHvnDave
You are clearly a greenie on this board. Loyal Democrat writes extremely witty satire - not too unlike Ann Coulter. OBVIOUSLY the US Constitution does not include the Marxist philosophy of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." If you failed to note this, then you need to re-take US Government 101.

reply to: SSGT
I am all for vaporizing the militant Islamics responsible for hitting us on 9/11, but NONE of them came from Iraq or had ANY connection to it... in fact, Osama wanted to take out Saddam! Read and study very carefully if you seek to know the truth, not the facile excuses of the Bushies. The WOT is a neoCON excuse for nation building (read: getting American military permanently in the M.E.), which they had outlined in detail way back in 1996. Such adventures have a price in a number of ways; the CBO has pegged $2 TRILLION as the all-in cost for this foray. Even the left (Shrillary, Obama) concedes we are stuck in Iraq, having let the evil genie out of the bottle.

Loyal Democrat is a Moron
Citing Karl Marx as part and parcel of the US Constitution?

SMOKE AND MIRROS SHOW

It has been decided a looong time ago - it is Hitlarrry.
So let's stop kidding and start worring.

Sadly
There was a time when the democrat party did not despise our military. Did not think America was the world's bad guy.

FLAGWAVER, re Loyal Dumbocrap et al
he is NOT a satirist - he is an arrogant idiot - just read his retorts to people who oppose him.
Typical socialist. I wouldn't let him to wash my toilet.

The essence of liberal "debate"
Prager breezes by a gem that illustrates the very essence of the liberal mind:

'Dennis Kucinich on giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants: "I take issue with your description of people being illegal immigrants. There aren't any illegal human beings, that's number one."'

(and Prager continues:) "Who ever said anything about "illegal human beings"? "Illegal immigrant" describes one's immigration status, not one's humanity. Such a statement embarrasses public discourse."

Yes, such a statement would be an embarrassment to anyone who wants to be taken seriously in a rational debate. But it's so very TYPICAL of the liberals we encounter here, on Kos and Huffpo, and in the living rooms and college classes of America. The complete non-sequitur, the appeal to emotion, the (unearned) tone of moral superiority...

What's important about this example is that while it's the sort of thing liberals do all the time, it's also the sort of prattle that Democrat candidates avoid like the plague, because they know it will lose them votes. Kucinich is a joke precisely because he does NOT stifle his knee-jerk liberal non-sequiturs. The other candidates also have them, but won't use them on the electoral circuit.

So liberals actually pretend to behave like conservatives, while all the while stifling their impulses to spew out embarrassing non-sequiturs.

This tells us everything we need to know about the intellectual life of America in political terms.

The Stupid Party
What is clear from the Democrat candidates' answers in the debates is that they still have the Communist/Socialist virus and still are hellbent on infecting the rest of us. There ought be a law that no candidate can run for president until they prove they have mastered basic economics and, especially, the American economy. In the 21st Century when even that Communist monolith, the People's Republic of China, is adopting capitalistic measures and actually kick-starting their economy, raising millions out of poverty, the Dimmicrats want to impose more governmental controls and socialistic programs like national healthcare on Americans. We don't hate liberals: we just think they're stupid!

I don't usually enjoy Loyal Democrat
...but he's nailed it this morning.

I'm going to clip your little satire, and show it (properly attributed) everywhere I get the chance.

You've accurately captured the central argument of the Democrat party, while subtly identifying it's true source. Thanks, and well done.

Jerseyvet
"There ought be a law that no candidate can run for president until they prove they have mastered basic economics "


Heck, there ought to be a law that no one can VOTE until they prove they have mastered basic economics. Of course, should this happen, the Democrat Party would go extinct overnight.

for impact
impact writes: "Since when
...is it our responsibility to build schools of any kind in Iraq?"

In Bush's speech to the nation in January 2007, he said:

"We will double the number of provincial reconstruction teams. These teams bring together military and civilian experts to help local Iraqi communities pursue reconciliation, strengthen the moderates, and speed the transition to Iraqi self-reliance. And Secretary Rice will soon appoint a reconstruction coordinator in Baghdad to ensure better results for economic assistance being spent in Iraq."

Bush made the SOCIOECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT of Iraq into a U.S. policy.
So go argue with him.

Stupidest statement in the debate
...and in a debate filled with disingenuous stupidity, that's saying something:

(Quoting Barak Obama) "...the overall strategy is failed, because we have not seen any change in behavior among Iraq's political leaders."

Um... the behavior of Iraq's political leaders before the invasion was belligerence toward all its neighbors, disdain toward world opinion, genocide toward its inhabitants, and the largest instance of graft in world history (Oil For Food).

I'd say we've seen more dramatic change in Iraq's political leaders than in any group of leaders since the beginning of civilization.

Democrats aren't stupid, they're delusional.

Loyal Democrat
Wonderful post. What a frank exposure of the Democrat backside! Makes you wonder why more Democrats don't see themselves as they are. Perhaps the much touted numbers that Dems 'outread' conservatives demonstrate their focus on reading comic books, Mad Magazine and other nonsense.


SteveL
Two words for your history lesson this morning - Marshall Plan.

Have a learned day!

lodestar
put your thinking cap on for a moment (if you can). We have been in the ME for quite some time now. And I have some sad news for ya. We will be in the middle east forever! Not a big news flash for someone who reads and pays attention to international affairs. Sorry to break that to ya.
And all of the terrorists coming out of the woodwork to kill the evil satan americans and dying over there, means they won't be coming back here to try it. Sorry to break that to ya as well.

Loyal Democrat's problem...
...is that since 1972 the Democratic Party has become increasingly impossible to satirize or parody.

For as extreme as you take them just to mock them, along comes one of them who goes further than you do and he's completely sincere.

I mean, really, how do you parody a party with voters who continued to elect somebody like Ron Dellums, he of the one-fisted communist salute at his first victory celebration?

How do you satirize a party that re-elected Marion Barry and Ray Nagin?

I don't think you can effectively do it.

I'm not saying the Republican debates...
...are better than the Democrat ones, but the obvious jockeying for a sound-bite-friendly position that plays well with the crowd is just sickening. It's been the case for at least 3 Presidential election cycles that I can remember that Democrats simply disengaged their rhetoric from the truth. Any resemblance between Democrats' public statements and what they actually believe is simply coincidental.

In the Republican debates, I believe that some candidates still attempt to make their sound-bite-friendly positions accurately mirror their positions. I don't believe Mitt Romney does -- I seriously do not trust that man -- and I don't know about some of the others, but I think we're hearing pretty accurate positions from Giuliani, Paul, and Thompson.

LD: I grok
I once again grok. You rock!!

Prager's "fairness" continued
Question for townhallers: Can anyone on this thread read this column and honestly say that Dennis Prager is fair to both sides? Meaning, is it difficult for you to know whether or not he favors the right or the left? Or is it more accurate to say that Dennis Prager is a partisan who is pursuing a very clear agenda; namely, to color the Democrats in a negative light, and the Republicans in a positive light?

I would love to see responses to this question, but please, only honest, sincere responses; no sarcasm or snark. And don't weasel out of it by answering my question with another question. A simple yes or no followed by a few additional comments will do.

Phylo out

Dodd
I sort of like Chris Dodd. I wonder why Prager doesn't go after him.

Re Hunger
It's regrettable that hungry people aren't hungry enough to suit Praeger. Two examples: 1) A poor woman told me that once a week she makes a big pot of bean soup so that once a week her children can eat as much as they want. Otherwise, there is never enough food to go around. 2) A local newspaper article described an urban ministry that goes into the worst neighborhoods here to dispense medical care from a van. To attract potential patients, they offer food as a lure, hot soup. They show up very late at night, between midnight and 3 AM, because there is so much foot traffic then on the streets. Their biggest customers for free hot soup are: children.

I did food shopping yesterday at a major chain store. Cereal was $4.69 a box. Milk was $3.69 a gallon. Eggs were $1.89 a dozen. Bread was $2.89 a loaf. Conservatives don't want condoms or emergency contraception or abortion and they do want large families. They adamantly oppose all forms of government-provided income maintenance. If you put all this together, it sure sounds as if conservatives want hungry children.

I genuinely laughed out loud.
Phylo se Fizer asked a question seriously, so I'll answer it seriously, but honestly, this is taking some effort.

Phylo asked: "Can anyone on this thread read this column and honestly say that Dennis Prager is fair to both sides?"

And the serious, logically correct answer is "We have no way of knowing."

I would have to hear Prager's view of Republican debates to decide whether he's fair to both sides. However, he wrote nothing at all about Republicans in this particular essay. So I don't have enough information to judge.

By the way: I don't regard the claim of being "fair to both sides" as meaning "I don't have an opinion." Judging from earlier essays, I'd say Prager is a consistent Republican, though probably not a straight-ticket voter. That doesn't mean he can't be fair to both sides.

Also by the way: please post for us a quotation from Prager in which he makes the claim to be "fair to both sides." I don't recall hearing him say that.

Now the snarky part: Phylo, I have a really hard time reconciling this question with your overall, implied claim that you're intelligent and thoughtful. This is a question I would expect from an 8th grader, not from a mature adult. I'm serious.

reply to SSGT
re:
"And all of the terrorists coming out of the woodwork to kill the evil satan americans and dying over there, means they won't be coming back here to try it. Sorry to break that to ya as well."

I presume that in your naivete you have ignored the known Islamic militants who have EASILY entered the U.S. (per the FBI) across the Mexican border because Presidente Jorge is averse to enforcing his sworn oath of office to defend and protect the borders, while embracing his amigos down south with promises to work for THEM to assure scamnesty, and surreptitious commitments to send S.S. and other taxpayer funds southward.

As for being, "someone who reads and pays attention to international affairs," after you get an education and become an officer perhaps, check back with me and we'll debate. There are > 1 billion Islamics and THEIR polls show that 90% of them mistrust America and that the mistrust has GROWN because of our presumptuous invasion of Iraq... we have simply thrown the first rock at the hornets nest. The neoCONS have played the chest beaters like a Stradivarius.

Comparing

The Democrats have plenty of faults, but every one of them beat the neocons now in power and new wanna bees. The hard fact is that they really only care about the very rich and will do anything to further their agenda. This fundamental fact is why they need a fake news propaganda station, run by a foreigner, and streams of lying e-mails and fake phone calls, to achieve political victory. What they did to John McCain in 2000, they will do to anyone, war hero, saint, or good honest American. President Bush when asked once what the rich have sacrificed for the war, he said something to the effect that they sacrifice by seeing war violence on t.v.!

Ah, the subject-changing post
Like a number of others, I've been noticing a pattern here on TH from certain liberal posters. They seem to pop in, change the subject to some well-worn liberal trope about conservatives, and then leave without comment.

I'm beginning to agree with some that these folks are organized, and possibly paid. They're from some left-wing "seminar" that teaches political activists how to seed conservative blogs and change the subject to items liberals would prefer to debate, like "Is it true that conservatives hate the poor?"

Lilly just posted a prime example. We won't parse the logic of her argument; I'm being generous by saying it's wrong. The point is that it's off-topic, and rehearses one of the left's favorite talking points.

Lilly, didn't your mother ever teach you that dirty tricks aren't nice? That you shouldn't wreck other peoples' efforts? Don't you realize that what you're doing is slimy, dishonest, and morally inexcusable?

inkling revival
Call Dennis and ask him if he's fair to both sides. I have done so twice, and he says, in no uncertain terms, that he is fair to both sides.

And why is the question of columnists fairness an immature question? I honestly have no idea what you mean by that.

Also, please tune in to his show the next time he reviews a Republican debate and see if has the daggers out as much as he does for the Democrats. It's not even close. Not even you will be able to deny it.

One more thing, I notice that you couldn't commit to a yes or no. You resort to "It's impossible to say". Isn't that position a little milquetoast?

Phylo out.

Rudy's a real nitwit
Here he lays out his asinine ideas. To sum up Orwellian authoritarian/totalitarian foreign policy: eternal war.

Toward a Realistic Peace
Defending Civilization and Defeating Terrorists by Making the International System Work
Rudolph W. Giuliani

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070901faessay86501/rudolph- giuliani/toward-a-realistic-peace.html

inkling revival
Also, I already said that fairness means that it's very difficult to tell which side of the political divide a person falls on.

Does Prager fit that definition in your opinion? Or does he seem more like a partisan?



lilly
again with your single example. Your party the dims always is about the giveaways. How about your side talking about personal responsibility and taking care of yourself. Food prices are always higher when you buy name brand items, but generic brands are typically cheaper by half on some items. The prices you quote are typically 50% higher than items I find here in phoenix. But if your heart bleeds so much for your example, trake over feeding her family that would allow you to demonstrate the compassion your side always claims for the great unwashed

Phylo
Get a life, dude! First, who says Prager has to be fair? He is expressing an opinion. Do you think your employer, George Soros, is fair? Do you think DailyCause is fair? How about your employer's buddy, Huff 'n Puffington? Do you think she is fair?

How about Craville & Begala moderating the sham Democrat debate? Do you think that is fair? Dennis Prager is expressing an opinion, and articulately and thoughtfully. You could learn lots by studying how he does it. He looks smart. But, then you might not get your next paycheck from Soros.

(How are the benefits? Any good?)

Lilly
You aren't intelligent enough to have a reasoned discourse here. Please go away. Your antics have become extremely tiresome.
Your lame arguments are laced with logical fallacies, you appeal to complexity and often affirm the consequent. Others do the same, but your nonsense and lack of any semblance of logical thought, has pushed at least one lurker to become a reluctant poster. Please find a hobby that suits your level of analytical thought.

Another Ignored Statement
My morning paper reports that when a woman in the crowd asked McCain, with reference to Hillary Clinton, "So, how are we going to beat the b*****?", McCain laughed. The columnist reporting this points out that if McCain had laughed when someone asked of Richardson "How are we going to beat the sp**" or of Obama "How are we going to beat the co**", "We would now be writing [McCain's] political epitaph". Open season on a female candidate?


At the Risk of
heaping opprobrium on myself, I was at one time
a very Liberal Democrat. With all due respect,
the reason I left the Party in 1992 was Bill
Clinton. The reason I left the Republican Party
in 2003 was George Bush. I now am a smug but
totally ineffective Libertarian whose best hope is to attract some attention to what the Founding
Fathers believed, and gave us. The underlying
DNA of the Dems. is PRESUMPTION, which flows from
a cocky and puerile precocity instilled by
parents who think FDR was GOD. The chemistry of
the GOP is based on money and "independence".
If the R merged with the D we would be history,
because then the rulers would have All the power AND money. Clinton is a chilling and perfect
example of a soulless automaton who panders to
the ones who can elect her, then she will turn
and devour us all. Bill was a choirboy, seriously
I think she's mental. Mitt is classic Republican
(but he ran a.........BUSINESS!!! for God's sake)
There isn't much out there for America.

gretsky
gretsky: Get a life, dude! First, who says Prager has to be fair?

Phylo: Prager does. Call him up and ask him. He seriously believes that he is fair to both sides. I'm not joking.

gretsky: He is expressing an opinion. Do you think your employer, George Soros, is fair? Do you think DailyCause is fair? How about your employer's buddy, Huff 'n Puffington? Do you think she is fair?

Phylo: He has a right to express his opinion. Where he goes wrong is when he insists that he's fair to both sides. I respect Michael Medved because he at least doesn't claim to be fair to both sides. He openly admits he's a partisan with a bias.

Oh, and it's flattering of you to suggest that my writing is of such high quality that someone would pay me to write this stuff, but I'm just a humble, over-educated house painter with a day off today.

Phylo out.



Robert
"I love your line on "Personal responsibility"...so what amount of PR do you give to ARbusto for getting the WMD thing wrong?"

About as much as I would give pretty much every other power in the world, including the 1998 Democrats, who also concluded that since Saddam spent the entire last decade acting as if he had something to hide, he most likely DID have somethng to hide.


lodestar
writes:
"I presume that in your naivete you have ignored the known Islamic militants who have EASILY entered the U.S. (per the FBI) across the Mexican border because Presidente Jorge is averse to enforcing his sworn oath of office to defend and protect the borders, while embracing his amigos down south with promises to work for THEM to assure scamnesty, and surreptitious commitments to send S.S. and other taxpayer funds southward."

Yeh, your BDS is getting the best of you again. And I know that all the planning for 9-11 took place under the Bush administration too. Just like that same administration cut back the military, FBI and CIA. Oh, wait a minute, that was under Clintoons administration.
So, Mr. Officer, when you get some brains, come and talk to me about some facts, not your libquirt fantasy island. I never met an Officer that could debate an enlisted man. Skinked again lodestar.

Lily, did that poor woman have a cell
phone? Did she have a TV, a cable TV? Drive a car, smoke cigarettes, drink? If the answer to any of the above is "yes", no sympathy here.

Did she not have the opportunity to go to school (which is mandatory in every state)? Can she not apply for WIC and other assistance?

The folks being treated by the van, are they by any chance street people who should be institutionalized for mental illness that prevents them from being productive citizens?

Just asking.

Taft
"The Democrats have plenty of faults, but every one of them beat the neocons now in power and new wanna bees. What they did to John McCain in 2000, they will do to anyone, war hero, saint, or good honest American."

Either it didn't occur to you that John McCain is one of those "wanna bees" or you are so confused that you contradict your own argument with your supporting evidence.

speaking of chest beaters...
It's not the US's invasion of Iraq that makes Muslims hate us and anyone with an ounce of honesty or knowledge would realize that.

Despite what the elitist MSM (Main Stream Media) and the millionaire-Marxist, liberal-socialist, anti-american demonrats say---we are in a war. A Global War! In fact we are in a world war with Islamic jihadist. It’s not just in Iraq, it’s on our own streets. Here is just a small sample of what’s happening and has been happening in America and the world for some 40 years. There are not enough pages to fully list all of the attacks that have occurred throughout the planet in the last 40+ years.

In June, 1968, Sirhan, Sirhan, the 1st (?) Islamic terrorist assassinated Robert Kennedy, Jr.

In March, 1977 a group of Hanafi Muslims took nearly 150 people hostage in 3 buildings in Washington, DC, murdering one and injuring dozens. Most notably, then DC council member Marion Berry shot in the chest just above his heart, nearly killing him.

In November 1979, Iranian terrorist held 52 US citizens hostage in Tehran, Iran.

In 1983, The Marine Barracks in Beirut, Lebanon were bombed killing 241 US servicemen. In 2003 a US District Judge said Iran was responsible.
In October, 1985, 69 year old disabled Leon Klinghoffer was murdered, shot in his wheelchair and thrown overboard on the Achilles Lauro cruise liner by Palestinian Islamic terrorist.
In 1993, the World Trade Centers were bombed the first time. In 2001 the Towers were bombed again with hijacked airliners, as well as the Pentagon. The WTC was incinerated along with 3,000 people.

In June, 1996 a truck bomb was used to attack the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. It was being used to house foreign military personnel. 19 members of the 4404th wing US Air Force were killed. You guessed it, it was perpetrated by Islamic terrorist.

Robt
I shopped yesterday. Milk was 1.99 a gallon and alberson's brand cereal was on sale for $2.00 a box. There were also numerous items 10 for $10. We have 4 major food stores here and they seem to be in competiton for customers and prices seem lower than when we lived in charleston. also turkey was .47 a pound and 10 pounds of potatoes were .99 a bag. As I do all our grocery shopping I keep track of the prices

more...

Feb. 23, 1997 New York City--Abu Kamal, a Palestinian teacher shoots seven tourists on the 86th-floor observation deck of the Empire State Building, killing one. AP: "'[He carried a note blaming the United States for using Israel as "an instrument' against his people. The note found in Ali Hassan Abu Kamal's pocket contains 'rambling, angry stuff,' and contradict claims by the man's family that the shooting had nothing to do with politics, a high-ranking police source said last night. The letter also expressed anger at France and England for using Israel as 'an instrument' against Palestinians, and indicated that Mr. Abu Kamal planned to vent his anger at the Empire State Building, the source said.'"---A claim the family now recants: Ali Abu Kamal's relatives say they are tired of lying about why the Palestinian opened fire on the observation deck of Empire State Building, killing a tourist and injuring six other people before committing suicide.

In August, 1998 two US embassy’s were bombed in Africa, 257 people were killed and over 4,000 woujded in Tanzania and Kenya. Any US embassy throughout the world is considered US territory. Al Qaeda was deemed responsible.

In 2000, the USS Cole was attacked by Islamic terrorist in Yemen.



More recent Islamic Jihadist attacks...
A graduate student whose bomb and anthrax threats shutdown the University of Missouri-Rolla was charged Wednesday with making terrorist threats and assaulting a law enforcement officer, the county prosecutor said. The student, 22-year-old Sujithkumar Venkatramolla, was arrested on campus early Tuesday after walking into a civil engineering building armed with a knife, holding paper bag and saying he had a bomb and anthrax, according to authorities.

Sulejmen Talovic, a Bosnian Muslim, killed five people in a crowded Utah shopping mall on February 12, 2007.

In March 2006, a 22-year-old Iranian student named Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar drove an SUV onto the campus of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, deliberately trying to kill people and succeeding in injuring nine. During his arraignment, he explained that he was "thankful for the opportunity to spread the will of Allah."

In 2002, Muslim convert John Allen Muhammad killed 10 innocent Americans and wounded three more critically.

In March, 2006, Ismail Yassin Mohamed, 22, stole a car in Minneapolis. He went on a rampage, ramming the stolen car into other cars and then stealing a van and continuing to ram other cars, injuring one person. During his rampage, Mohamed repeatedly yelled, "Die, die, die, kill, kill, kill," and when asked why he did all this, he replied, "Allah made me do it."

Robert
" With little or no foreign policy experience Rudy has seemingly gravitated to them and seems to embrace most of their now discredited ideas."

Exactly! He has as a foreign policy advisor the discredited Norm Podhoretz, who thinks killing more people is the golden key to the world's problems.

Phylo out
Just wondering what is the necessity of ending each post with "Phylo out". Most everyone else here just gets along with a period at the end of their last sentence as a way of closing their remarks.

It just gives rise to all sorts of ridiculous images. The first is that perhaps somebody is taking himself just a tad bit too seriously. Like people who refer to themselves in the third person.

That they consider each of their posts a blockbusting zinger of a comeback or observation, the enormity of which can only be closed by the equivalent of announcing "Elvis has left the building!" Then they stand up from their computer chair in the basement they probably think of as their "command center" and pump their fists like Tiger Woods.

I'm also picturing somebody who probably wears a baseball cap like Michael Moore, even when indoors, and especially while he's typing some awesome response he will sign off with "Phylo out".

Nearly as bad is Robert's need to remind us that we just read what he wrote by repeating his name at the bottom even though we can still see it at the top of the post.

I must say that certain people seem to have a very high opinion of themselves.

Citizen Carrier has left the building...

Nothing
The Dem candidates are nattering nabobs of negativity. A bigger bunch of fools, tools and losers I've never seen except for Robert, Lilly snd MLD. They say nothing, stand for nothing and are worth nothing. Le'Chaim.

Free Ramos and Compean
Global warming is sphere nonsense

Whoa, check this breaking news!
The following is an excerpt from a forthcoming book by former White House spokesman Scott McClellan:

“The most powerful leader in the world had called upon me to speak on his behalf and help restore credibility he lost amid the failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. So I stood at the White house briefing room podium in front of the glare of the klieg lights for the better part of two weeks and publicly exonerated two of the senior-most aides in the White House: Karl Rove and Scooter Libby.

“There was one problem. It was not true.

“I had unknowingly passed along false information. And five of the highest ranking officials in the administration were involved in my doing so: Rove, Libby, the vice President, the President’s chief of staff, and the president himself.”



Well folks, so much for the "Richard Armitage was the leaker" nonsense.

McClellan better get himself one of those remote car starters.

Gee, I wonder if we'll see this story on townhall.

Phylo out.

apoplectic
I don't know how much McCain is a neocon, but I used his example, not very clearly, as RW dirty tricks.

Phylo, Don't flatter yourself
You got me! The quality of your writing style is what tipped me off. Your lack of logic and ignorance of the obvious are qualities of paid shills. While you are painting today, you might ponder the difference between fairness and opinion. Here is a clue for you, you can be fair, but opinionated. And, someone can be fair, and still disagree with you and George.

That's two clues for you. Now, you don't have to be clueless anymore.

(And, that is my opinion, fair or not.)

Lilly
You are a lousy shopper

HUNTER FOR AMERICA

Securing the border and enforcing the law is the only way we get to keep our rule of law, our representative Republic, and our Constitution. We must elect a President who WILL secure the border and enforce the laws. If citizenship becomes meaningless, this will no longer be the United States of America.

If the GOP thinks they can continue to import cheap labor for their donors at the expense of the citizens, they will. I will not vote for that again. If we continue to play the game of "the other guy is worse", we will lose our country. Sorry, but I will not participate in that game any longer. The GOP power brokers think we will vote for "anybody but a Democrat" so they can continue to ignore securing the borders and enforcing the laws. I'm hoping GOP primary voters give the party elites some surprises in the primaries. The levers of power and the money in the GOP are all in the hands of the cheap labor express. They do not want Duncan Hunter as the candidate. He WOULD enforce the laws and secure the border. WE have to make him the nominee by voting in the primaries. We have to talk to our friends and neighbors about him. He is not going to get media coverage. It's going to have to be a grass roots effort. I WANT to vote for a GOP candidate in Nov.'08, I WILL NOT vote for any of the amnesty supporters. If it takes crushing the GOP so a new party representing American citizens can arise, so be it.

http://www.gohunter08.com

I could go on for 50+ post...
I could go on for 50+ post on terrorist attacks...the point is lode is full of a load. These attacks aren't just against the US; they are worldwide. In fact we are fast approaching the 10,000th radical islamic attack. The establishment media is seemingly obsessed with “grim milestones” in the War on Terror, as the Associated Press reminds us this past weekend. But in the next week those same establishment media outlets will probably stand mute when yet another “grim milestone” is reached – the10,000th attack by Islamic terrorists and militants since 9/11, which is responsible for approximately 60,000 dead and 90,000 injured. Go to TheReligionofPeace.com
for the complete chronicle 2001-2007.


Radical Islamist don't hate America because we invaded Iraq...they hate us because we are kaffirs. I never in my life would believe that the supposed party for women (democrat) would lie back in silence as a religion that abuses, rapes, kills, enslaves...women operates with impugnity around the world, ever increasing their voracity and hatred. Yet all the lying liberal mouthpieces keep gumming away...

robt
the milk was a loss leader but one of the stores generally has it on sale during the month. But it was also the albertson's brand which is generally cheaper. But I certainly am not making up prices for the sake of argument. Fortunately we have the financial freedom plus a freezer that allows us the option of stocking up on items when they are on sale rather than just buy for any particular weeks needs

gretsky
Yes, I agree that a person can have strong opinions and still be fair. But it's also possible to have strong opinions and not be fair at all. Prager falls in the latter category. Have you noticed that not one person has come out and said that they believe Prager is fair to both sides? Not one! Not even you.

Listen to his show, you'll notice that ALL of his strong opinions just happened to be aimed at Democrats and the left.

What really kills me about Prager is the way he gets so angry at callers that he thinks are being intellectually dishonest. It's a classic case of Freudian projection.


Immigration and not being able to answer
Being at the epicenter of illegal immigration (Los Angeles) and having the first elected AINO mayor, (American in name only) I hope citizens in other states realize that immigration IS the central issue this election.

Our country will leave Iraq as soon as it is safe to do so. Medical costs will be addressed on a continual basis. Social security benefits will not end, but if we elect a democrat (or a McCain, Huckabee or Rudy) our nations sovereignty is at stake.

Some may think we are talking about giving citizenship to only twenty million illegals. However, after you consider family members coming over for "family reunification" purposes and their steady birth rate of 4.5 children, in less than twenty years our country will be speaking Spanish.

I urge all to take our country back and vote for only candidates that stop comprehensive immigration reform, AKA amnesty.

catscratchfever
I think its a mistake to make all Muslims our enemy. If we want their oil, we should be respectful. Its too bad Norman Schwarzkopf isn't still our main commander, he had lived in and learned to love Iran. He also would never put up with disrespect towards a host nation's culture and religion. Read his book!

One more time Prager's "fairness"
I wanted to post this question one more time to make sure people have seen it.

Can anyone on this thread read this column and honestly say that Dennis Prager is fair to both sides? Meaning, is it difficult for you to know whether or not he favors the right or the left? Or is it more accurate to say that Dennis Prager is a partisan who is pursuing a very clear agenda; namely, to color the Democrats in a negative light, and the Republicans in a positive light?

I would love to see responses to this question, but please, only honest, sincere responses; no sarcasm or snark. And don't weasel out of it by answering my question with another question. A simple yes or no followed by a few additional comments will do.

The question is important because Dennis repeatedly says that he is fair to both sides.


Phylo out

Gang, you are seeing how shills work
Just look at some of the chronic shills here - Phylo, Lilly, Robert, etc. Just notice how they keep saying the same thing over and over again. This is a classic example of how a paid Soros shill operates. They are here every day, spilling out their nonsense, and diverting the conversation.

My suggestion, stay away from them. Don't engage them, and maybe they will go back to the Soros salt mines. Read my Townhall blog for more info on how I identified them.

Loyal Democrat
Good to see you back. Have you been on R and R?

Gretsky
Your paranoid conspiracy theories are amusing. The real paid propagandists are people like Prager and Medved. Swear to Buddha, I'm just a volunteer in the fight for the truth.

By the way, did you check out that McClellen bombshell?

Phylo out.


upland patriot
is that as in upland calif. I had a cousin who lived there years ago. She kept a tortoises as a pet in her yeard which was kind of interesting. But to the point I have maintained that immigration is the key issue in this election. Bringing in millions who will not assimilate and who continue to act as though their mexican heritage has more value than being americans is only going to make a bad problem worse. We can no longer allow the illegals access to services that we pay for and they don't. Language is a similar necessity that binds the citizens of any nation. English proficientcy in the public forumn is also something that should be a national goal. But it all starts with border security

Taft
I didn't make all Muslims our enemy, even though they continue to make us theirs. But of course you knew that. The facts remain, the documentation is there...as the neurons turn. However the gaps in the synaptic junctions of neo-commie, liberal, millionaire-marxist democracy hating, arrogant, elitist remains. As not ONE of the dem presidential candidates seem to even have the "balls" to mention them.

gretske
Yup, same clap-trap day after dreary day.

Someone really needs to give them a set of new slogans.

Haven't seen one yet that can carry on a discussion.

If this is the best you can do
with your complaints about the Democrats
who are running for election, you might as
well concede right now and save us an entire
year of having to listen to all this.

An aside here: If going to your alma mater and
mentioning that women are getting stronger in
all arenas in life (far unlike when Hillary and
I were in college), and that is called using
the gender button, so be it. However, I think
you would be amazed how few of us really see this
as a gender issue at all. The gender issue has
been won as well as any issue can be won. We
are strong, we are powerful, we are smart, and we know it.

Let's get on with other things.

Prager is a fear monger
Vote conservative or else.
Imagine running a compaign on not be someone else. "I suck but not as bad as Hillary" If you send in 100.00 donation to Rudy you get that slogan on a bumper sticker.

Edwards on hunger
Dennis reminds me of the good old days when Reagan was pres and tried to convince the public that ketchup satisfied the nutritional need for a fruit or vegetable in a school lunch.

"household food insecurity" was coined because hunger was not pc for the white house.

No Amnesty Candidates


No Rudy, No McCain

Romney, Huckabee and Thompson are saying the right things now, but haven't always. Hunter and Tancredo have been working on this for years on our behalf. Longer than most of you have been alarmed about it, they have been trying to sound the alarm. Choose carefully in the primaries, your future depends on it.

Rob
I'm sorry Rob, but you're an idiot.

Rob: And again another classic example, with thinking Prager has to be "fair" to both sides, and he sets no context. All who are knowledgeable about Prager knows he considers Liberalism the most damaging agenda to America and most Democrats fall into that category.

Phylo: Prager repeatedly claims to be fair to both sides. He claims to not have an agenda. And the problem isn't that he thinks liberals are bad, the problem is that he claims to be fair to both sides, which is utterly indefensible.

Rob: In fact, Phylo is the classic liberal, thinking everything should be "fair" and one like Prager shouldn't be biased to one side, when in fact, we all are, including Phylo!!! Is he being "fair" to Prager?

Phylo: I don't care if he's biased. What bothers me is the fact that he says he isn't. He's lying to himself and his audience. I guarantee that he thinks he is way more fair to both sides than the NYTimes or Washington Post. I respect Medved for the fact that he doesn't claim to be objective. He says flat out that he's a partisan and that he has a bias.

I notice that you basically agree with me: that Prager isn't fair to both sides. Maybe Prager will read this thread and stop lying to himself when he says that no one thinks he's fair to both sides.

Phylo out

Where to start?
In response to Phylo's deluge of illogic:

1) "Why is the question of a columnist's fairness an immature question?"

Because the complaint was based on a single essay, and not on a general assessment of his writings.

Because infants and toddlers whine about "fairness," where adults deal in the more germane fields of correctness and intellectual integrity.

2) "Also, please tune in to his show the next time he reviews a Republican debate and see if has the daggers out as much as he does for the Democrats. It's not even close."

Hmmm... is it possible that the Republicans' answers are not nearly so laughable and inane as the Democrats'? Or are we assuming that all positions are equally viable (that is, "2 + 2 = 13" is just as easily defensible as "2 + 2 = 4")?

The test of fairness would be whether he's equally factual about the content of the answers being given. I've never seen any indication that Prager has been unfaithful to the facts, and in my mind, that makes him fair.

3) "I notice that you couldn't commit to a yes or no. You resort to "It's impossible to say". Isn't that position a little milquetoast?"

Not at all. If there's not enough information on which to make an assessment, the only correct answer is to say so.

Example: Given "x * y = 35", what is the discrete value of "x"?

The correct answer to this problem is "x = 35 / y", but that's not a discrete value, just a change in definition. If I offered a discrete value (say, "2") it would be wrong. You can only give a discrete "x" if you know "y".

4) "I already said that fairness means that it's very difficult to tell which side of the political divide a person falls on."

Then you need to acquaint yourself with an English dictionary.

Katy
"For such a hot-shot lawyer, Hillary still doesn't understand what the PURSUIT of happiness means."

For such a hot shot poster, I don't think you
understand Hillary (well, I know you don't).

And she is very busy in her own particular
pursuit of happiness.

Have a nice Thanksgiving.

virrudummy
again this pathetic old hag shows up with the phony we are women we are strong after numerous postings how the govt has let her down by not attending to all her medical problems that her hero the missus clinton will solve for her. But she has yet to explain how anyone who has never done anything heroic can qualify as a hero. Women of accomplishment can do things on their own abilities. The missus clinton's sole accomplishment is that she married the serial womanizer who made sure she got numerous awards and positions through her marriage. Her only job was being both an enabler for a womanizer and organizing the effort to destroy the reputations of the women bubba molested. Thus the missus clinton proves her strong feminist creds by defending a serial abuser of women. Some hero to whorship

Democrats using Jacobin, Bolshevik techn
Has the RNC become the Pontius Pilate of the Plutocrats? Have they become the new Torries, re-colonizing America to UN, European or Chinese economic and political interest? Are we instigating a neo-Confederate policy with free trade and subservience to large agri-business at the expense of the industrial sector. Have they abandoned the wisdom of Hamilton for the folly of Adam Smith? The factories in the north East rust belt resemble Hiroshima in 1946 because of environmental legislation, over taxation and regulation and the neo-con betrayal of NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT and "Most favored nation status for Communist China. It is bad enough the Democrats are simultaneously trying to destroy American Industry with KYOTO and LAW OF THE SEA Treaty. Democrats who wish to re-colonize America and make it a fief of the UN or the neo-con agenda for a world-wide plutocracy, it is serfdom for the common American citizen. Neither the socialist bureaucrats of the left nor the aristocracy of corporations of the right is for the benefit or prosperity of our republic.One gets the suspicion that Hillary, Harold Ickes, Sidney Blumenthal and the rest of her cult of personality cadre are not planning a campaign but plotting a coup. The Clinton machine is the personification of a Machiavellian and sinister cabal, much reminiscent of Danton, Robbespierre, Lenin or Hitler. All of these dictators used the democratic process to obtain power for their party. Then they overthrew the Parliamente, Duma or Reichstag. They established a one-party tyranny, complete with sanguinary purges against any who did not totally comply, and established an atheistic, socialist despotism. In all thesecases the God of the Bible was dethroned because, in the progressive paradigm, the government is not only vox populi, but the avatar of the new god. The liberal then become the infallible high priest. Mike Guy

If this is the best you can do...
...Viruddh, to ridicule legitimate observations about the inane things Democrats say, perhaps you should stop showing up, After all, you seem irritated by having to listen to conservatives...

And an aside: if "All the men are piling on the woman" and "I'm going to assault the all-boys network" doesn't strike you as playing the gender card, I'm sure I don't care what your version is. I'm guessing you didn't think her disingenuous little game of pretending to be intimidated by Rick Lowry was playing the gender card, either. That just reminds us how unimportant intellectual honesty is to you.

SSGT
"And all of the terrorists coming out of the woodwork to kill the evil satan americans and dying over there, means they won't be coming back here to try it. Sorry to break that to ya as well. "

All through history your statement has been proven to be WRONG. Without going through a
dozen examples, I will give you the most important one.

In Rome circa first century A.D., Christians were
considered a threat to Rome and the leaders
of Rome. So persecution and execution took
place on a regular basis. Guess who won that
argument!!!

Love truly does make the world go round. And if
you can't muster up love, you really should try
cooperation, understanding, being nice, and/or
agreeing to disagree. No particular way of
operating works 100% of the time. Life can be
a guessing game. I choose "not war and not
violence" whenever it is humanly possible and
I bet that the outcome will be better the vast majority of the time.

SSGT
Just finished reading a DK Biography on JFK.
That reminded me also how violent the Southerns
were to the marchers in the Civil Rights Movement. But the marchers hung in there, and
they were the winners, in more ways than one.

Prager wants a either a liberal Liberal
or a liberal Conservative. It is good for his radio show. Half theese guys want spineless liberal conservatives. The kind that wont stand up to the left. They cant stand up because they are half left. They do not have conservative values or principles.
They beleive in big government, and pork spending, as long as their side is the one spending it. This is not about right and wrong it is about teams. Each side wants their to win. For no greater reason then they happen to be on that side. The rest is just excuses defending their side. No principles and no back bone.

wildwest
Yup, she makes me so un-proud to be an old bat!

I'm sure the Hill IS pursuing her personal road to happiness.
Second rate lawyer in a third rate law firm in a 49th ranked state for education. This ,of course, qualifies her to be POTUS.

The crah and burn of the Hildabeast will be SUCH fun!

viruddh
Holy crap you are dumb
Muslims are comming from a different nation to Aerica.
Christians were Roman Citizens from with in Rome.

Liberal cognitive dissonance
I've always been astonished by the ability of liberals to lecture others without the slightest awareness of the irony of the things they're saying. This gives us all those remarkable examples of peace activists fighting like wet, angry hornets with police...

Viruddh gives us a prime instance: "Love truly does make the world go round... I choose "not war and not violence" whenever it is humanly possible and I bet that the outcome will be better the vast majority of the time."

Viruddh, I've seen you post dozens of times here on TH, and you're among the most vicious, unfriendly individuals here. To hear you talk about "love making the world go 'round" is an irony I'll enjoy for years to come.

virrudummy
it was your party the liberal democrats who imposed jim crow and totally opposed the civil rights movements. it was the dims who sent the police dogs and used the fire hoses against the marchers. It is still you pathetic dims who keep the blacks on the dim plantation of victimization and entitlement. But stranger than reality the blacks think that lib/dims/socialists are their firends and allies. The party of choice for the KKK was also the dims. And still the dims maintain they are the party of tolerance and principle. History however proves their hypocrisy and their long hisotric mistreatment of their now favored minority

wildwest
Oh get over it.

Your diatribe on Hillary Clinton is getting very
old and dreary. At least say something new.
So she married a womanizer. She is probably the
first person in history to do so, don't you think. And she stayed with the rascal. Well,
that is a family issue, isn't it, and statistically speaking (welfare of the family and
children), she made the right choice.

I have already told you why she is a hero. You
speak, but you don't listen. Sounds like a lot
of men I know. She is my hero because she had
the guts to introduce a bill for health care
when no one else did. Even her own party didn't
listen, but she is back at it today. Hooray for
her. HERO HERO HERO. We are woman. We are
strong.

Today, everyone (unless they are trying to kiss
the backside of TownHaller types - which is a
whole lot less than 100% of the Right), is
working up some sort of health care plan, whether
it is a Hillary type or something else. She was
visionary. She knew the need would be there, she
knew the desire for it would be there. She just
was ahead of her time then.

Now it IS HER TIME.

P.S. I was for the civil rights movement without
being black. Can't I also be for health care,
while being reasonably assured both through
family wealth and pension plans that I will not
be in trouble personally in spite of my own
health problems.


Wildwest P.S.
Your intelligence and wit shows up in what
you call people.

Viruddummy, is only one of perhaps a a hundred
examples.

Please grow up.

Hey Wildwest...
HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Hope you have a great day and a great year!

Keep up the good work!

phylo
I don't know about "fairness", but Prager often says how much he values honesty. He repeatedly clims that clarity is more important than agreement.

Which is why this is such a disgraceful column. As I've pointed out above, he repeatedly mischaracterizes what the candidates said.

alwyr, setting aside your ad hominem attack on me, my point wasn't that I agree with Obama, but rather that Prager misrepresented him to claim he was anti-american.

I agree with you, Phylo, about Medved. He's much more honest, and way less pretentious, than Prager.

Seeker of Truth
Seeker of Truth. Keep seeking. You may yet
find it.

most perceptive person around, but I'll bet that even you know that the Southern Democrats from
Carpetbagger Days to the Civil Rights movement
had virtually nothing in common with the rest
of the Democrat Party except name only.

Inkling: If I am the looniest and most vicious
poster that you have read on Town Hall, then I
am one of the only people you have read on TH.
For starters you might want to check out the
names I have been called just under this column.
Or doesn't that count?

More about Obama...
I wanted to learn more about him, so I went to the Trinity United Church of Christ website. This is where Obama is a member. Much of what I read made it clearer to me the reasons he shows a lack of American patriotism.

I would definitely not be welcomed in the congregation he worships with because my color would exclude me. Even if I were a democrat, and I am not, he wouldn't be what I would want in a President.

virrudummy
the name fits due to your lack of intelligence in continuiong to promote one of the weakest self indulged persons to ever enter the political arena. Introducing a bill in congress is their job. Being married and then enabling a serial womanizer only proves how incredibly weak she is as a woman. Millions of women have accomplished successful professional lives without being married to a man who held power and saw they recieved favorable treatment. You libs still fail to list the accomplishments of your alledged hero. The sad truth is that without bubba she would be a person of no consequence. I come from a family who has numerous women who have accomplished great things on their own. They had the intelligence and drive to achieve. They earned the positions they occupy. Now your"hero" tells us her white house years proves her qualifications but refuses to release her papewrs which would back up these claims. But as we all know the missus clinton is qualified. She has told everyone she is qualified and everyone knows the clintons always tell the truth, except of course when the truth would show the world how pathetic they truly are which is always.

mr. prager
in answer to your befudlement over what Mrs. Clinton means when she says we should start acting like americans again, i think she's probably referring to things like our government's sanctioning of waterboarding. following wwII japanese commanders were actually convicted of war crimes for waterboarding. i don't really like the idea of my country being guilty of war crimes as a general policy. also, i'm not so proud of our policy of "extraordinary rendition" in which we detain terror suspects and ship them off to countries that allow torture. i think we, as americans, can probably fight the war on terror effectively without doing that. but other than that, i can't imagine what kind of crazy code she's using when she says we should start acting like americans. she probably is sending some kind of signal to gay abortionists.

_SeekerOfTruth
FYI: The earliest Christians in Rome were
all outsiders.

Inkling
"That just reminds us how unimportant intellectual honesty is to you."

No one can just make a straight statement around
here. That zapper must always be added, mustn't
it. As if you were in a position to know.

Read carefully what I have been saying. I don't
know if Hillary is using the gender thing or not.
My guess is that if interviewers bring up gender
she will respond in kind. What I AM SAYING is
that the gender card does not need to be played
and in my estimation it is not a big thing with
women. That is not why we are or are not voting
for her.

Novakaine
Would you please tell me what publication you read about that the Japanese used waterboarding? I was around back then and I don't recall the Japs using that humane torture.

Wildwest
The middle section of my 1:11 post is supposed
to be addressed to you, but somewhere between
writing and posting the name got lost. I would
hate for you to miss it.

P.S. Did your mother ever wash your mouth with
soap? If she didn't, she should have. I cannot
believe that grown people talk like you do.

Inkling: "Like a number of others, I've been noticing a pattern here on TH from certain liberal posters. They seem to pop in, change the subject & then leave without comment." They are
the smart ones. So much of Town Hall comments
are not about issues, but about name calling and
repeating oneself over and over and over. Those
who leave quickly are not interested in dialogue
- again, they are the smart ones - but they do
want to make their position known. As soon as
the laundry is done, I will follow suit, go pack
my bag, grab my husband from work and head on
home for Thanks giving. Virtually all of my
family (except my kids) are Republicans, but they
don't act ANYTHING like what I find here.

Happy Thanksgiving.






end comments
And now for a bit of radio procedure trivia. When one ends a transmission with the word "over," it means "I have finished this transmission and am standing by to listen to others." When one ends a transmission with the word "out" it means, "I have finished my transmission, and am now signing off, closing down, and going away. You will hear no more from me."
Ah,would that it were true.

Hillary's Unbelievable Arrogance
I could never stand to listen to any of them, so I appreciate having the transcript here. The level of stupidity among the Dem candidates is shocking, really, but for Her Thighness to make that "acting like Americans again" statement and go unchallenged is simply unacceptable. It is also revealing of the contempt that the Democrats, and especially Her Thighness, have for ordinary Americans. She should be run out of town on a rail.

Robert from way back
"The "essence" of what troops do in war is vanquish the enemy."

Who is our enemy in Iraq? The Al Quida? The Suni? The Shiite? The Kurds and the PKK? Iran? Syria? Baathists? The Madi Army? These factions can be our friends one day and our enemy the next. We can supply weapons to local tribal leaders who will turn them against us. We already won this war, there is no winning the occupation, not with anything less than a real American effort and 200,000 some American troops cannot subdue a country of 25 million for very long. I'm not sure 500,000 would be enough. There is no enemy to vanquish here. The British pulled out of Basra and violence is down 90%. We need to leave. Don't worry they will still sell us oil at the going rate. The Demicans really ain't much better or worse on the war than the Repulicrats. If this is your issue I suggest Ron Paul.

wildwest
Happy Birthday!

Don't miss your daily dose of Paddy's Parodies...the latest is a campaign song for Hillary :-) My Blog.

virrudummy
I had a mother who taught that hard work was the key to making something of your life. We were taught to despise those who looked to the govt to solve their problems or took handouts from the govt. You alas are your typical lib who believes in reviving history. So the dims who ran the south were dims in name only. Exactly what is that supposed to mean. They still supported the national party and they were the ones who implimented jim crow. Another of your heroes, robt sheets byrd was a leader in the klan but being a dim is hailed as one of the lions of the senate. I however accept that being a lib is being nothing more than a thief in the night who only believes in stealing from the producers to reward the losers your party enables. But yoiur hero the missus clinton has made it evidently clear that should she get elected she will be the president for the dims and the victim groups the dims enable. She has already told the country numerous times that she believes there is a vast right wing conspiracy attempting to destroy the clintons and that she has fought the hateful, racist repubs all her life. And still after 15 years of campaigning to be president fully 505 of the country doesn't trust her and dislikes everything she stands for. And still the dims thinks she stands for something other than her personal lust for power

viruddh
"Love makes the world go round" - my guess is that you are a lost flower child of the 60's. On a theological level, perhaps, you are correct. As the Apostle Paul explained, love/charity conquers all. But on a practical level, it is tough to fight tyrants with daisies. How many American lives would have been lost if we counter-attacked Imperial Japan, or Nazi Germany, or Soviet Russia and Red China (through proxy wars in Korea, Vietnam, etc) with love rather than lead? Why don't you offer a bible and a kiss to OBL and the millions of fanatical muslims who what to crush your freedom under the heel of sharia law? See how far that gets you. We have the freedom to waste time on this blog, talking about love and peace, only because Americans before us were willing to fight rather than submit. The common theme from Hillary, Harry, Obama and Nancy is that the Dems are no longer willing to fight for freedom. They would prefer to give up the battlefield and go home. Most thinking people call that "surrender." If Hillary becomes our Commander in Chief, I hope that you learn to LOVE speaking foreign languages when the mongols take over.

LILLY

.....If people are going hungry in this Country where are the stats on death by starvation? ...why is obesity supposed to be a health crisis especially among the poor? ...

.....Awhile back a social services worker was writing letters to my local paper trying to encourage more people to collect food stamps because she thought her next years budget might be cut ...

.....you bleeding hearts are never satisfied ...you look for problems under every rock and when you think you have one you always try to blame it on hard-hearted Conservatives ...

.....If you are so concerned about children going hungry why don't you open up a soup kitchen? ...

.....NEWSFLASH: If you are willing to give something away ...you will have a never ending stream of takers ...whether they really need it or not ...it's called human nature ...apparently you never learned about that in Liberal Arts .....COLOSSUS

I TRIED TO WATCH THE DEM DEBATE

.....After ten minutes my left hand began to shake ...15 minutes and my right eye began to twitch ...then my feet went numb and I had trouble breathing ...when I began to foam at the mouth my computer COLOSSUS initiated a power shut down ...

.....I didn't get a good nights sleep though ...
I kept having nightmares about President Clinton force feeding me raw spinach for my own good ...Whew! Never again .....COLOSSUS

virrudh
"Love truly does make the world go round. And if
you can't muster up love, you really should try
cooperation, understanding, being nice, and/or
agreeing to disagree. No particular way of
operating works 100% of the time. Life can be
a guessing game. I choose "not war and not
violence" whenever it is humanly possible and
I bet that the outcome will be better the vast majority of the time."


Why don't you get yourself a plane ticket to NW Pakistan and talk to Osama yourself? After all, your approach has worked SO well with tyrants, dictators, murderers throughout history.

It's bad enough that the civilized world needs to defend itself from murdering nihilists, but naive fools such as yourself who would open the door and roll out the red mat for these killers just make the job so much harder. Let me tell you this, ma'am - if you get in my way when I have to defend my family, you will be squashed. Better for all of us if you stay at home barefoot and cook.

THRadio
Lets see, back in 2001, we had a few lame nuts over on the other side of the world who had been kicked out of every respectable government in the world, attack us. They got away with it. Bib Laden has become a hero to every Muslim out there with a grudge against the US and now has control of No, Pakistan. To add to this mess, Bush invaded the wrong country and created for us even greater problems. How anyone one can with a straight face blame the dems is beyond me.

Rob
Yes, those are some other ways of describing "fair". But 99.9% of Prager's criticisms are attacks on the Democrats and the left. He relentlessly points out the faults of the Democrats, and he highlights the positives about the Republicans.

How can you claim that that is being fair to both sides? Would you say Michael Moore is fair to both sides? I sure as hell wouldn't. So why can't you admit that Prager is not fair to both sides. He's a partisan with an obvious agenda. And if he would only admit it, I wouldn't have any problem with him on this issue of fairness.

Farmer's Wife
Would you specify which things about his church wouldn't make him a good president? It sounds just like what the Black community needs.

" In fact, Trinity encourages parishioners to be "soldiers for Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind [emphasis added]." The Tribune said that the church's "value system" was adopted in 1981 to hold "black Christians accountable for taking care of their own and for continuing to fight oppression."

"Addressing conservative criticism of the "value system," Obama also reportedly told the Tribune, "Commitment to God, black community, commitment to the black family, the black work ethic, self-discipline and self-respect. ...Those are values that the conservative movement in particular has suggested are necessary for black advancement." He added, "So I would be puzzled that they would object or quibble with the bulk of a document that basically espouses profoundly conservative values of self-reliance and self-help."

prager
your an idiot but at least you look like bill press.
while looking at the candidates peek at the losers in your camp. not a one of them qualified to be president. but it doesn't matter. ron paul (initials r.p. and he's from texas...ross perot?) is the only one who really has momentum and he's avoided by the right wing msm. hey ron paul fans- still think fox news is fair and balanced and without an agenda?
look for r.p. to take a large number of anti war republicans with him. i know he's not popular here because you're a bunch off chickenhawk wimps but he is very popular with many conservatives and some disillusioned democrats and independents.

just heard
ron paul is third in the polls in new hampshire for gop candidates

So, labeling himself
as a Conservative would make Prager's article more 'fair?'

What about an article at TH that is right-leaning is a surprise to you?

Why does he have to give 'both sides' to be 'fair'

If you want commentary about the Republicans, you can find that as well....But I think you made a wrong turn when you came to TH instead of, say, Daily Kos.

Just because you don't share Prager's views, it doesn't mean he has to cover your agenda.

He has a point of view. You can respect it and move on or find a columnist elsewhere that preaches to your choir.

Why do you come to TH and complain that it takes a dim view of Democrats? Sheesh!

Taft says...
"To add to this mess, Bush invaded the wrong country and created for us even greater problems. How anyone one can with a straight face blame the dems is beyond me."

How anyone with a shred of integrity can make that statement is beyond everyone. Bush didn't create radical Islamic militant terrorist. They've created themsleves with their hatred of Jews and all kaffirs. Bush was not president when:

In June, 1968, Sirhan, Sirhan, the 1st (?) Islamic terrorist assassinated Robert Kennedy, Jr.

In March, 1977 a group of Hanafi Muslims took nearly 150 people hostage in 3 buildings in Washington, DC, murdering one and injuring dozens. Most notably, then DC council member Marion Berry shot in the chest just above his heart, nearly killing him.

In November 1979, Iranian terrorist held 52 US citizens hostage in Tehran, Iran.
In 1983, The Marine Barracks in Beirut, Lebanon were bombed killing 241 US servicemen. In 2003 a US District Judge said Iran was responsible.

In October, 1985, 69 year old disabled Leon Klinghoffer was murdered, shot in his wheelchair and thrown overboard on the Achilles Lauro cruise liner by Palestinian Islamic terrorist.
In 1993, the World Trade Centers were bombed the first time.

continued...



No change
Obama may want to check his facts. The behavior of Iraq's political leaders has changed just a little bit since the invasion:

Example 1: Saddam went from terrorizing his people, attempted genocide, supporting terrorists to, first, hiding in a hole, then not breathing, and now decomposing. Quite a change.

Example 2: Saddam's flunkies have gone from assisting him in the previously mentioned actions to begging for an extra hour of television privileges and trading cigarettes. Again, quite a change.

So, I think the change in behavior since the invasion has been quite drastic.

Or maybe Obama should be a bit more careful about what he says.

Obama Nabbed by the Patriot Police
Rove style garbage can campaign strategy explained here.

"By that standard, everybody in the picture (Obama, Richardson, Clinton, and Ruth Harkin) was infringing the Code, as they had their backs to the flag. On the other hand, the Code refers specifically to "Patriotic and National Observances." We welcome the opinion of protocol experts, but we are not sure that a steak fry qualifies as a "Patriotic Observance," even in Iowa. Since the steak fry was awash with flags, it is quite possible that the aforementioned political candidates were facing the flag and had their backs to the flag at the same time."
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2007/11/obama_n abbed_by_the_patriotic.html

Taft
It did not start in 2001. In the modern age, it started back in 1979 in Tehran. Since then, repeated attacks against America and West have occurred around the globe with increasing frequency. American presidents from Carter to Clinton (yes, including the Republicans in between) failed to recognize the threat and react accordingly. This only emboldened muslim fanatics to attack us more often and more savagely. GWB was the first to stand up and say "Enough" and drove the Taliban from power and put Al Qaeda on the run (for now). And he did so despite the constant, vociferous criticism from the left and the media that he was "not doing in the right way" and he was "destroying our rights." What baloney! If FDR had been forced to fight WWII nationalist tyranny in the same the way that GWB is forced to fight muslim tyranny today, then WWII would have lasted another 15 years! And no, I don't blame it all on the Democrats. But I do predict that if the Democrats regain the White House, we will return to the "laissez-faire" doctrines of the past and the results will not be good for anyone.

continued...
Bush was not president when:

In June, 1996 a truck bomb was used to attack the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. It was being used to house foreign military personnel. 19 members of the 4404th wing US Air Force were killed. You guessed it, it was perpetrated by Islamic terrorist.

Feb. 23, 1997 New York City--Abu Kamal, a Palestinian teacher shoots seven tourists on the 86th-floor observation deck of the Empire State Building, killing one. AP: "'[He carried a note blaming the United States for using Israel as "an instrument' against his people. The note found in Ali Hassan Abu Kamal's pocket contains 'rambling, angry stuff,' and contradict claims by the man's family that the shooting had nothing to do with politics, a high-ranking police source said last night. The letter also expressed anger at France and England for using Israel as 'an instrument' against Palestinians, and indicated that Mr. Abu Kamal planned to vent his anger at the Empire State Building, the source said.'"---A claim the family now recants: Ali Abu Kamal's relatives say they are tired of lying about why the Palestinian opened fire on the observation deck of Empire State Building, killing a tourist and injuring six other people before committing suicide.
In August, 1998 two US embassy’s were bombed in Africa, 257 people were killed and over 4,000 woujded in Tanzania and Kenya. Any US embassy throughout the world is considered US territory. Al Qaeda was deemed responsible.

In 2000, the USS Cole was attacked by Islamic terrorist in Yemen.

Bush is not the president of Bali, Spain, England, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Indonesia, The Phillipines, Denmark, Russia, Kenya, Thailand...or any other country that has been attacked by radical islamic jihadist. Oh but of course everything is Bush's fault. Eventhough according to every demmie, neo-commie, and liberal he is a big dummy; according to them he's also the great and powerful Oz.


dems


This whole crowd of dems is pathetic. They are typically politically correct to appease the moveon type kooks ( can't dry up that money well) and will never utter the word "islamofascist." If one of these spineless wimps win the presidency............... god help us all!

catscratchfever
You might think about getting something for your fever,

What does your little list have to do with Iraq, Reagan and Rummys buddy?


mrs paddy
"Why does he have to give 'both sides' to be 'fair'"


- i agree 100%. you wouldn't debate 2+2=4 if someone came up and said, "no, it's 5". somethings are up for two sides but not everything. the problem is we don't always know if the equation is 2+2 or 8-3 so a similar result is not expected.

catscratchfever
Why do you waste your time? Everyone knows about the radical Muslims who are out to get us. Thats why the congress, dem and rep have spent billions of dollars, and have sent 175,000 troops to Iraq. Remember. You also should take into account that the 1979 revolution was aimed at the US because we supported a torturing, despotic shah, and had overthrown there previous gov. Concentrate and You won't waste your time. Also Muslims have done our democracy in times of war some great deeds!

Known by the company you keep...
ANYone who defends the corrupt, immoral, vapid Democrat Party and its lineup of America-hating presidential candidates...

...is probably as corrupt, immoral and vapid as the Party they defend.

(if you'll carefully read their comments, you'll see that I'm correct)

phileo
why do you hate america so much?

jacka$$.

phileo
Obama isn't corrupt, and he is pretty smart. You might want to do some reading up on his political views. He's a little rough around the edges but so are many new candidates to the presidential scene. Just think of all of Bush's gaffs. Thanks

Taft...
I certainly don't know why I waste my time with you. However, the facts are the facts. It's not I that needs to learn about radical islamic jihadist. Evidently you and almost every other demmie, neo-commie, liberal and ALL your presidential candidates haven't learned much about them either. Despite your chronic dishonesty, it is not America, George W. Bush or any other country that has created radical islamic terrorist. It is their own hatred and useful idiots who continue to bow to their evil.

LILLY

.....Did you hear about the farmer who thought he struck it rich when he bred a turkey with six drum sticks? ...

.....It didn't work out though ...he never could catch the suckers hahahaha.....COLOSSUS

taft
do you take your handle from the former president and do you hunt, particularly migratory birds (especially waterfowl)

Thanks, Taft
Taft writes, "phileo Obama isn't corrupt, and he is pretty smart."

Maybe I was stroking with too broad a brush. Allow me to correct myself:

All the Democrat presidential candidates are corrupt EXCEPT Obama. He's just a predictable leftist who has no love for this country or its traditions of free enterprise, rugged individualism or American exceptionalism.

I'm no fan of Bush but even HE has more integrity and intelligence than anyone the Democrats are putting forward. I'm sad for what the Democrats have become. They are now a dangerous political force in this country and the world.

If Democrats could have come up with ANYONE better than Gore or Kerry, I might not have been forced to vote twice for Bush.

Hard to imagine
Viruddh writes: "Read carefully what I have been saying. I don't know if Hillary is using the gender thing or not."

I do. She is.

"What I AM SAYING is that the gender card does not need to be played and in my estimation it is not a big thing"

Your estimation should be adjusted to include relevant examples from recent history.

Rick Lazio was actually leading Ms. Clinton in the polls during the 2000 Senate race -- and then he strode across the stage in a debate with her and placed something on her podium. Suddenly the New York papers were filled with comments about "bullies" and male violence, and references to how Lazio "attacked" Clinton, and "intimidated" her. Ms. Clinton won the election by about 12 percentage points. The "poor, weak female" card was very much a part of the difference.

From the Minneapolis Star Tribune:

"Now this six-on-one stuff. Clinton stumbled in the debate, uncharacteristically but nowhere near fatally. In response, Penn & Co. are playing a good game of rope-a-dope.

"After all, they have experience with this move, from the 2000 New York Senate race, when Republican Rick Lazio loomed into Clinton's personal space during a debate and quickly saw his numbers tank. For the Clinton campaign, the best thing would be to have the Philadelphia story played as Lazio II -- more bullies trying to intimidate her."

http://www.startribune.com/commentary/story/1525686.html

Forgive me if I'm mistaking you for someone else; but I make sometimes-caustic comments to people based on my impressions gathered previous encounters with them. I don't think it's particularly honest when they try to pretend that today's interaction occurs in a vacuum.

Are we SURE Obama is not corrupt?
The Illinois chapter of Judicial Watch lists Barak Obama on their "dishonorable mentions" section of their "10 most wanted corrupt politicians", for involvement in a shady land deal that has landed the other party in criminal court.

http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/obamawatch/2006/12/two_il _lawmaker.html

Granted, truly corrupt politicians develop recognizable patterns, and the occurrence of one shady deal does not a sleazeball make. But let's just say that in his short tenure in the Senate, Obama has gotten himself embroiled with the sort of fellow we don't expect honest politicians to get embroiled with. Write it off to inexperience -- but then you'd better not pretend that he actually has the experience and savvy to negotiate with the Putins and Musharrefs of the world.

Viruddh, if you're still here...
I'd really like to hear something from you.

You claim Hillary Clinton as a hero.

I find that an incredible statement from anybody who lived through the 1990s. I want to try to understand why you can even tolerate the sight of her.

Are you completely unaware of how deeply Ms. Clinton was involved in the Madison Guarantee S&L failure that cost depositors some $60 million? How the only way she escaped indictment for fraudulent affidavits was by claiming incompetence? How she recited "I can't recall" more than 50 times in a 40-minute interrogation by the House committee investigating the matter (e.g. the difference between Hillary Clinton and Scooter Libby in this instance is that somebody bothered to prosecute Mr. Libby). How she lied about subpoenaed documents, and then voila, they were found in her quarters after the investigating committee dissolved? How she orchestrated the Travel Office firings? How she organized the private investigators who were hired to harass Bill's bimbos? How she made a Faustian bargain with a serial philanderer in order to ride his coattails to power? (You don't actually believe Monika took her by surprise, do you?)

I could go on for quite a while. The point is, the public record is full of more items than could be named in a TH post, identifying Ms. Clinton as a deeply corrupt, deeply cynical, utterly dishonest, self-exalting woman with delusions of godhood. This doesn't spell "strong", it spells "evil."

So, tell me again -- why is she a hero to you? And does your view include any of those negatives? How do you avoid the conclusions about her that half the nation has drawn?

inkling_revival
I wasn't going to respond to you anymore but that post was too well done. One should probably see what come of that deal and if its not just another long boring White Water wild goose chase.

Lilly on Hunger
I'm hungry, Lilly, I have to live on Ramen Noodles for the month. Why? Because my state is a blue state with a sanctuary city and everyone in office is a Democrat.

I am taxed beyond belief to support every illegal coming into my region. They are usurping our resources, burdening our police with high crimes, overcrowding our prisons, having children up the wazoo, and I'm the one writing the checks for it.

My property taxes tripled. TRIPLED. So, this is why Shells is hungry. Thanks to the bleeding hearted dems and their special programs in order to curry favor and votes, are sucking me dry.

We don't need to overtax Americans to feed the fat hungry population who have TV's, cells phones and cars, like me. We need to elect republicans state and nationwide and cut these taxes, cut these programs, cut off the freebies to person who do not pay taxes or contribute to our system.

Why are fat people hungry? Because they're schmucks and voted Democrat in their state.

George Bush Leaks identity of CIA agent

McClellan blames Bush for CIA leak deceit

Former spokesman says both president and vice president involved

MSN-Former White House press secretary Scott McClellan blames President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney for efforts to mislead the public about the role of White House aides in leaking the identity of a CIA operative.

In an excerpt from his forthcoming book, McClellan recount the 2003 news conference in which he told reporters that aides Karl Rove and I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby were “not involved” in the leak involving operative Valerie Plame.

“There was one problem. It was not true,” McClellan writes, according to a brief excerpt released Monday. “I had unknowingly passed along false information. And five of the highest-ranking officials in the administration were involved in my doing so: Rove, Libby, the vice president, the president’s chief of staff and the president himself.”

WATCH VIDEO

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/george-bush-leaks- identity-of-cia-agent



shells
in the earlier discussion concerning food prices, he who must not be mentioned challenged my statement concerning the cost of a gallon of milk. This week it was on sale for $1.99. He chose not to believe that. Now my question is this, why would I exaggerate over something this trivial. I was responding to the dimwit lilly. To my recollection only the clinton's lie over trivialities as in I was named in honor of the everest explorer even though he climbed the mountain 7 years after I was born. Or I played first saxaphone in the hs band even though such a position doesn't exist. The rest of the america sees the clinton's as bumbling idiots, that is except for the leftists who still whorship them as heroes

Link on Obama
I did a little poking around the site on Obama and possible corruption, and found the site used a not very legitimate source, one Judicial Watch, paid for multi millionaire Richard Mellon Scaif. I hope our political decisions are made on better foundations than that.

Dems
Dems = "Socialistic Tax the Rich Party", founded by Karl Marx and flourishing in the 21st century under Comrade Hillary "Red" Clinton and the Daily Kos.

What I want from Debates
I want reporters to stop pontificating in their questions and ask ONLY questions that MUST be answered YES / NO or FOR / AGAINST. All candidates MUST answer with one word answers YES / NO or FOR / AGAINST. We would get more information about what the candidates believe than to give them 2 minutes to pontificate and NOT answer the question. For Example, reporter, "Are you FOR or AGAINST homosexual marriage?" Candidate "......."

Start Acting LIke Americans
They say that you hate in others what you hate in yourself.

Obviously Clinton's remark is a guilty, wishful prayer that Democrats in Congress stopped working for the defeat of America, preferably at least, until enough Americans have been fooled to elect her. Then she can finish the job herself. Can anyone say "Amnesty"?

Rudy's Answer to Illegal Aliens


Pretty much the same as Hillary and GWB. Lip service to border security and "Comprehensive Immigration Reform", amnesty. We tried that once in 1986 and Reagan thought it the worst mistake of his terms. We now have 10 times the number of illegal aliens. We will either elect a President who will uphold the laws or one who will change them to accomodate the illegal aliens. If we do the latter, we are voluntarily committing national suicide.

Virginia Patriot
So when are we supposed to identify and enumerate the illegals in the country?

aDNA
We don't. If we make it clear that you just CANNOT BE an illegal alien in the U.S. without harsh penalty, (particularly if we add a provision that if we have to deport you, you will never get U.S. citizenship) then many will go home on their own. Make it impossible to BE an illegal alien in America. Require proof of legal residency or citizenship to obtain drivers licenses, get a job, rent an apartment, get a bank account, obtain loans or credit cards. American citizens do this every day.

Ghosts
...and of course, the question never asked by the Blitzers and Mathewses: Senator [governor] just how will your administration go about winning the war on terror, because the jihadists don't plan to lose it?

Biden
Joe Biden should be kicked out of the race just for using the word "interface."

Taft responding to THRadio said
"To add to this mess, Bush invaded the wrong country and created for us even greater problems. How anyone one can with a straight face blame the dems is beyond me."
You should read Caroline Glick's article that appeared today in jewishworldreview called "How can Washington and Jerusalem be so irresponsible?"
In it she states that Saddam's WMD were smuggled out of Iraq to Syria who kept working on them and built a nuclear reactor which Israel took out on 9-17-07.
So BUSH DID NOT LIE and DID NOT INVADE THE WRONG COUNTRY. I remember Israel at the time saying that Saddam was smuggling out his weapons to Syria. I remember Israel's photographs of the line of trucks that left Iraq and headed towards Syria. I remember Saddam's womenfolk moving to Syria. I remember Israel trying to get the message through the US bureaucracy that something was coming down soon around 9-11.
Maybe considering how ineffectual and incompetent and some word less rich than treasonous perhaps disloyal or loyal to only dem goals and to their own salaries and benefits and retirement and not to the government nor to the people, nor to a republican leader, our CIA is, maybe we should start listening to Israeli intelligence.
I sure hope Israel has a red phone to Washington DC and back again.
Maybe we need a bumper sticker that says
"Give it up. Bush did not lie.
See events of 9-17-07."







Bob Novakaine
I believe you could use a good water-boarding.

TH12-Step Program
My name is poot, and like many of you here, I once engaged the trolls. Your efforts, however, are futile. They are immune to logic, reason, facts, history, economic literacy . . . . I could go on for days.

I, like Dennis, worry about my country because it is, barrowing the title from a book by Robert Bork, Slouching Towards Gomorrah and we have the leftists to thank.

It has been said and written often enough that it has become a cliche: today's liberals (read:leftists) are simply people who never developed emotionally into adulthood. Their thinking is shallow and their arguments simplistic, yet they are arrogant enough to believe that only they have all the answers and it is up them to change the world.

Conservatives, by definition, honor the traditions of our fore-fathers and understand that those before us did not do what they did because it didn't work. That doesn't mean that we don't constantly seek to improve our society and culture; we just choose to go about it in measured, non-radical ways.

I can already hear the idiot liberals decrying slavery and racial discrimination in our country, from which THEY delivered us. Funny how they don't mind being a part of the Party of Segregation.

But there aren't any inconvenient facts that a little history revision won't cure.

poot
You're right - good post.

On engaging the trolls, it's kinda useless.
Someone suggested that some of them are paid to post their nonsense.
Some appear to just want attention.
Some of them, I do believe, spout comments that others (or perhaps they themselves under different screen names) can then attribute to conservatives. I think that accounts for some of the racist comments we see here.
Some of them are the same person using different handles. I'm beginning to think Lilly and Virrudh are one in the same.
I genuinely like the comments of some TH posters, including some of those who have a different viewpoint than I do. I don't attack someone's view, but often go after intellectual dishonesty and twisted logic of their argument.
To no avail of course.
I have learned to avoid certain discussions (like the weekly columns designed to bring out the atheist arguments) because they're dominated by idiotic claims and vapid argument.
Your 12 step program is a good idea!!

Nice Accurate Article...

Without phony problems... where would the Democrats stand?

What if the unemployement rate were below 5% ?
What if we were winning in Iraq ?
What if there were no hurricanes last 2 years ?
What if the economy was expanding ?

What if we became grateful ???

old news
Israel blew up a Syrian nuclear reactor on 9-17-07. Now Israeli intelligence is saying the technology came from Iraq.
Just because one has technology does not mean it is in a condition to be used which is the whole reason people want to stop Iran's program now, not a year from now. And by the way, Iran got a head start on its technology from N. Korea. And Pakistan got its technology because Canada broke its promise.


20 mil?
I find it interesting that in the immigration debate, niether party has yet to come up with a plan on what to do with those people who are in this country w/o proper papers already (some 10 to 20 mil.)

I'm not one who agrees with Mr. Bush on a lot of things, but at least he had the guts to confront this issue head on, understanding the reality that there are far too many already here and that they are vital to our economy. think about it, what would happen if suddenly we sent out the entire population of New York City and surrounding areas? Or the State of Arkansas, Missisippi and Missouri? No money no economy.

too bad the Bush's own party shot him down on this one. Too many are already here, it's a fact, and unless those opposed to some type of amnesty realize that the only real alternative is the kick them out. A Pyrrhic victory at best.

Until this crucial issue is resolved there can not be meaningful immigration law reform.

Rudy G.
The one thing I do like about Rudy, besides his strong stand on gun control, is that he favors letting the illegals stay. He says his own heritage gives him empathy towards others who want to make America heir home.

I am Thankful...
...that her thighness Hillary Rotten Clinton is not yet our president and with any luck never will be. I am also grateful that...

Amnesty (comprehensive immigration reform) has been slowed. America still has her sovereignty for now.

I am grateful that we can express our views, unless of course you are a conservative trying to speak at a university.

God bless Ann Coulter.

Grateful that half of the citizens of California still speak English.

Thankful for my family.




Taft
Another consideration: If America was being invaded by a foreign force would it make sense to use nuclear weapons on American soil? Maybe that is why Saddam did not use his WMD on Americans invading Iraq but sent them to Syria, while Syria and Iran continue to work on missile technology with the help of Google giving them the precision they lacked before. Also n Korea is working on missile technology and when they had tests they invited Iran to watch. Also during the summer, Iran, Syrian, N Korean, and Venezuelan leaders got together and then Chavez visited Castro to bring him up to date.



Bytheocean
If you have a little extra time check this site out. Here is what R said when Clinton was taking out those WMD. Poor George, even tried finding them under his podium.

"I cannot support this military action in the Persian Gulf at this time," Lott said in a statement. "Both the timing and the policy are subject to question."
"The suspicion some people have about the president's motives in this attack is itself a powerful argument for impeachment," Armey said in a statement."

Some good if 1 of the skunks makes it in
democrat candidates are all such idiots...if one of them makes it to the White House I forsee a real revolution in the next 4 years of Conservative spirit and determination.

let's hope we get a revolution anyway with a Republican Prez...mayhaps...ROMNEY.

The 12 Steps
For more about how to deal with the trolls, see http://www.non-normie.com. Jack Thomas knows all about why they are as they are--and why Shrillary (and her fellow candidates) are so dangerous.

As for how to deal with the illegal immigrant issue, I would get rid of the minimum wage first, to free up the labor market. Then I would forbid the unions to contribute anything of value to any political campaign (I'd love to outlaw them, but with the right motivation, they do serve a purpose). Then I would enforce the laws we have on the books now against illegal immigrants. I would also look at increasing the quotas for legal immigration.

Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately), I'm not running for president (and have absolutely no desire to do so). Therefore it's unlikely my ideas will ever see the light of day.

*Shameless Blog Plug* I've finally put up a new post. Just click on my name. And no, it's not about space development this time.

Taft
BTW I got the date wrong. Now ti is beign eported as 9-6-07.

Excellent point about the Biden faux pas
Mr. Prager serves a very useful purpose in demonstrating the media's vacuousness & vapidity. I can't stand 'em. The point about Biden is of course well taken.

But in a democracy people are the way they are. Ortega y Gasset describes us in his Revolt of the Masses, a book which I've never heard Prager talk about. Curious coming from a book-reading and -talking man.

It should, in fact, be a big influence on his life in my opinion; it is so profoundly true if unsettling.

As a faithful podcaster of Prager's wonderful radio show, I feel he needs to read and talk about Revolt of the Masses. It's also relevant to an earlier Prager op-ed:

http://dennisprager.townhall.com/columnists/DennisPrager/20 07/08/07/excitement_deprives_children_of_happiness

Furthermore, in 1999 National Review featured it prominently in the top 100 books of the twentieth century:

http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.p?ref=/flash back/flashback200510190827.asp

What Does Leadership Look Like?
I believe that Mike Huckabee poses the greatest contrast and best hope for beating Hillary or any of the Democrats, don't you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr58xZdHo9Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlGnnwrl1Z4

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