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Tuesday, August 21, 2007
Dennis Prager :: Townhall.com Columnist
Why I Fought for Two Boys I Never Met
by Dennis Prager
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At Patton Middle School in McMinnville, Oregon, students created something called "slap butt day." On one such day in February 2007, according to The Oregonian (July 22, 2007): "Two boys tore down the hall of Patton Middle School after lunch, swatting the bottoms of girls as they ran -- what some kids later said was a common form of greeting. But bottom-slapping is against policy in McMinnville Public Schools. So a teacher's aide sent the gawky seventh-graders to the office, where the vice principal and a police officer stationed at the school soon interrogated them."

A police officer interrogated them?

"After hours of interviews with students," The Oregonian continues, "the day of the February incident, the officer read the boys their Miranda rights and hauled them off in handcuffs to juvenile jail, where they spent the next five days."

Two seventh-graders were read their Miranda rights for butt-swatting?

And hauled off to jail for butt-swatting?

And kept in jail for five days for butt-swatting?

This is worse than a bad joke; it is actually sick.

And it gets worse. The seventh-graders were not permitted contact with their parents for 24 hours, they were brought into court in shackles and jail garb, and they were strip-searched four times.

All because the Yamhill County District Attorney, Bradley Berry, brought felony sex charges against the two boys. When he finally explained himself under pressure from the media, Berry told The Oregonian, "From our perspective and the perspective of the victims, this was not just horseplay."

In fact, it turns out that the girls involved did regard it as horseplay. And they claimed from virtually the outset that they had been pressured into making a case against the boys.

The Oregonian has reported that listeners to my radio show across America provided nearly all of the more than $40,000 for defense costs for the two boys. But they have done more. They have also sent letters to the two boys assuring them it is not they, but Bradley Berry, who acted perversely. One of the boys' mothers, in tears, told me that these letters profoundly affected the boys, who were made to appear as perverts and sexual predators and who could have been placed on sexual predator lists for the rest of their lives. My listeners also reported that when they phoned the office of Bradley Berry, they were told that "there was more to the story," that more evidence would be forthcoming.

That was a lie. Berry had nothing more to reveal and did in fact drop the felony charges. The boys were then charged 'only' with sexual harassment.

Our beloved country is flipping out. The effects of The Age of Stupidity ushered in during the '60s and '70s are omnipresent. It is highly doubtful that there is a living member of the World War II generation who could have imagined that seventh-graders would one day be brought in shackles into an American courtroom for playfully swatting a girl's buttocks. It is also true that there is no member of that generation who could ever have imagined something as low-life as a "slap butt day" in an American middle school. But that is another matter.

Apparently ex-Raleigh/Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong is not the only D.A. in America who has used his almost unlimited power to hurt innocent boys.

Nifong, it will be recalled, brought phony charges of gang rape against three Duke lacrosse players, lied about having more evidence, withheld critical information from the defense and in sundry other ways did whatever he could to ruin three innocent boys' lives.

Nifong has since been disbarred.

Nifong has met his match in Oregon, where Bradley Berry has done his best to ruin two innocent boys' lives. Perhaps the major difference is that the boys Bradley Berry is abusing are seventh-graders, not college students.

The story is so angering that one can only wonder whether America is suffering from a surfeit of district attorneys who are either incompetent or just lack elementary human decency. One prays these two district attorneys are exceptions. But there is only one way to ensure that they are. Bradley, like Nifong, must be removed from office. Anyone who believes that seventh-graders who swat girls' buttocks on "slap butt day" are sex criminals who should be charged with crimes that would permanently label them as sex offenders is a dangerous fool. A district attorney who believes that is a dangerous fool. Bradley Berry has acted like Mike Nifong. He needs to be punished like Mike Nifong.

My show and my listeners have been instrumental in helping getting all the charges against the boys dropped -- this happened just yesterday. Now we will focus our attention on removing Bradley Berry from office.

A democracy cannot long survive the contempt more and more Americans feel for American law.

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About The Author
Dennis Prager is a radio show host, contributing columnist for Townhall.com, and author of 4 books including Happiness Is a Serious Problem: A Human Nature Repair Manual.
 
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Together We Made A Difference!!!
I think it is wonderful the way Dennis' listeners have come together and raised the money for Corey & Ryan. I know the letters of encouragement helped a lot too! It would not have happened if Dennis had not brought this to the attention of his listeners! Dennis is someone who takes action and does something to make this world a better place. We need more people like him!!!

DENNIS AND AUDIENCE

Great job !

Let's not go overboard, either
While I agree that the vice principal, the police officer assigned to the school, and especially Bradley Berry were disproportionate [read "WAAAY OUT OF LINE"] in their reactions, and I applaud their richly deserved comeuppance, can we agree that "slap butt day" is not behavior that should be encouraged? Now, I realize that teenage boys practically invented impulsive, stupid behavior - it's the nature of the beast - but in the rush to reassure these fine young specimens of budding manhood that they are not sexual predators, has anyone pointed out to them that they were impulsive, stupid, and should have known better?

Bravo Dennis!
I completely agree with you on this case and the Duke case!

I now await you bringing to light any of the many, many cases of prosecutorial abuse of power leading to the wrongful conviction and imprisonment- sometimes on Death Row- of many american citizens. One thing though, most of them are poor minorities, not upper middle class white males such as in the cases you have championed. Now, this might expose the race and class issues still pervading our justice system.

But that won't stop you, will it? Because you really do believe in equal justice for all, correct? I know because you say it all the time! It is only coincidence that the only cases you ever take on involve upper middle class white males.

What say, Dennis? I await your next story breathlessly. You could start with this organization, which involves itself ONLY IN CASES OF ACTUAL INNOCENCE, not legal technicalities:

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

To me,the incredible thing...
...is the school board.School boards today are so fearful of law suits that they ban Christmas carols and speech and words too numerous to mention.It costs the school boards many bucks for good defense lawyers even if they win the case.And this case,as described,is a trial lawyers'dream come true.In addition,if the facts are as described by Dennis,the taxpayers of that community are very vulnerable to law suits on civil rights violations.There is a whole host of mistakes the principal and the police officers committed(to say nothing of the district attorney.)

But this is Oregon and therefore standard operating procedure.So what do I know?

90% of Italian Men in Jail?
Any woman who has been to Italy knows Italian men's propensity to do more than slap women's butts. If Bradley Berry had his way, 90% of Italian men would be in jail or wearing ankle bracelets as "sexual predators"!

What bothers me the most
is the continuing story of young children getting labelled "sexual deviant" for meaningless 'crimes' *perpetrated* against other youngsters, but the teachers who cause AGGRAVATED DAMAGE to young people get off scot free.

A bunch of 'butt smacks' get the boys dragged out of school in handcuffs and spend 5 days in jail.

But a TEACHER who is accused of molesting any STUDENT gives a statement to police and gets to keep their job while awaiting trial (or at most, gets paid leave) no handcuffs, no jail time.

Maybe the next young student that is raped by a teacher should cry "SEXUAL HARASSMENT" instead of rape. The penalties seem to be much more severe!

Now lets focus on the parents
What kind of mothers encourage their boys to participate in Slap Butt Day? AT SCHOOL?

I would have been outraged had my boys been arrested for participating in such behaviour, and indeed if the Catholic school which took the proceeds of my second job to oversee institution of manners and morals as well as reading, writing and arithmetic had permitted such behaviour, I would have been down there in full battle cry. There would be no possible reason to arrest my boys for such behaviour, though, since the first time the the principal called me and let me know that they had slapped any girs butt in a public place there would have been two boys with ringing ears and a clear understanding of what would happen to them the next time they participated in such behaviour at school or in any other public place.

Until PARENTS take the reins once again and start from the time their children are small to teach them that we do not lay hands on one another in such a familiar way -- and even more important, WHY -- this kind of nonsense will continue.

And yes, I grew up in an Italian neighbourhood and most of those parents, who were staunch Catholics, would have knocked their boys flat had they behaved that way IN SCHOOL.

When the age of Political Correctness
swept through and decided to throw paddling out the window, they threw common sense out with it. There's "zero tolerance" stories all across the nation that makes you wonder if this country is going insane. Kinda reminds one of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah....don't look back!

Maybe the school should have slapped
the boys butts and been done with it.

Public schools
The public schools attempt to turn all their students into perverts (similar to teachers), with hopes that students will take action similar to the teachers. Then the teachers can hold the students to an extremely high level of accountability, taking the focus off of sexual crimes committed by the teachers. Typical communist/nazi behavior.

This kind....
of intimidation and just plain cra* goes on in schools more than you would think. Usually not carried to this extreme though.
I have 2 teenage boys and a daughter who graduated a couple of years ago and all of them have been brought into the ap's office and interrogated by the cops over silly, childish things. One of my boys was brought in because a known bully with a long juvenille record decided he didn't like my son and threatened him and then spread rumors about him and the ap decided to believe the boy with the record. My son was interrogated over and over for a couple of hours and he finally looked at the adults in the room and said, "You know, you're making this worse than it is by carrying on like this." The kid had more sense than the adults!
This kind of thing is common with boys more often. You'd be suprised at how many boys have had similar experiences in high school. None of the adults ever apologizes or has to make any kind of restitution either.
By the way, the school doesn't even have to call the parents if they and the cops want to interrogate a kid in the state of Maine.

My point is, this junk is really pretty common.
Fortunately, it doesn't go to the extremes this did. Good job those of you who wrote and called and sent money.

And to think, my childhood days
were spent playing the game "tittytwister". That's when you go up to a girl and ask her what's worse than a tornado, then give her twist and yell tittytwister! Harmless fun back then, of course we were only 6 years old, we had the sense to stop the game at the first appearance of the contours of a breast.

Re: Jestak and laborlawyer
Liberal leftists insist that our criminal-justice system is deeply flawed. This is a system that is open to the public to observe, that has a system of appeals, and that has plenty of checks and balances built into it (such as lawyers for the guilty and both a judge and jury). Nevertheless, liberal leftists say it is deeply flawed.

By contrast, liberal leftists think the system of peer review in academia (the one used to prop up dubious claims of global warming) is perfectly fine. Peer review is done in secret. There is no public access to any review to see if it was done fairly or objectively. And there is no court of appeal, and there are no checks and balances built into the system. Yet, liberal leftists think it's a great system.

Just one question, Jestak and laborlawyer, WHY?

Liberals with the light on
Like so many liberal agendas, under the clear light of day it all looks insane. Remember the case a few years back of a (I believe) Florida first-grader who was tossed out of elementary school for kissing one of the girls on the playground? In the first few news interviews the school officials were self-righteously indignant about not tolerating "sexual harassment" and it was only later that they realized the entire nation thought they were raving lunatics. Anyone want to take a guess on who Bradley Berry supported in the Bush v. Kerry election?

Double standards: Muslms and non-Muslims
It's a good bet these kids weren't Muslim. If they had been, the school never would have dared do anything.

Likewise, if Larry Summers had been Muslim, we never would have heard about his remarks, and he'd still be president of Harvard.

Boromir's Horn
Had you practiced this t*ittytwister thing on any of his five daughters, my Daddy would have appeared at your front door and had plenty to say to yours. In fact, had he caught you practicing it on one of us, HE would have yours in a wringer right on the spot.

MLEH, my goodness
these are MIDDLE school kids! Should know better? I don't know how old these "BOYS" are, but they could be 11-12 years old and they are supposed to know that a game of butt tag is sexual harassment? Do you by chance have any BOYS? My son and his friends played all kinds of stupid harmless games - they are all fine young men now. I think all the adults in this fiasco should have to spend five days in jail - talk about things getting out of control. If I was one of these boys Mom, I would be suing every adult involved in this mess!

Audi
That's half the problem right there. Nowadays the parents for the most part don't bother talking to or calling the parents of kids who do stupid things. They go right to calling the cops.
When you and I were kids our parents would actually talk to the other parents.
My daughter would have hauled off and decked anyone who tried that tit*y twister stuff on her.
Most girls now are taught in school to play the system and go right to tattling and filing harrassment charges. This is creating a lot of thin-skinned people.

Jestak, laborlawyer
You are comparing apples to oranges. I don't believe that anybody on the death row is completely innocent. They may not have committed this particular crime but they aren't angels. Here you have kids who engaged in horseplay and the idiot prosecutor tried to turn them into sexual predators. Maybe they should have slapped boys' butts. Their behavior would be protected then. How screwed up is this?!

Groups and individuals
I recently heard a statement that said the difference between a liberal and a conservative is that liberals care about groups and conservatives care about individuals. This is a classic case. Instead of focusing on the individual boys and girls, the boys were put into the classification of "possible sexual deviants" (which includes any male of any age) and the girls were "probable victims of sexual assault"(any female, any time, any male touches them). When judged by the groups, the boys are immediately guilty of their group's possible transgressions.
This is beginning to sound like Communism and Nazism and their categorizations of people.

Let's not blame everything on the 60s
The 1960s occurred over forty years ago, and the perversion of culture that Prager likes to crow about had already started. Most of those "hippies" Prager breathelessly complains about are now grandparents, fairly conservative, and just as horrified about political correctness and the other stupidities of the day as anyone.

The 1950s were when things genuinely began to change, but the fifties decade was little more than a reflection of the 1920s, when all the Johnnies who came home from the war cut loose a bit.

To blame "the sixties" is a trite and oversimplified explanation, and Mr. Prager should be capable of a better quality of analysis.

As a high school graduate of 1965--slap in the middle of that decade--an honorably discharged army veteran and a law-abiding, tax-paying citizen (with no tattoos or shrapnel) I resent the mis-characterization of an entire generation.


Prosecutors
Prosecutors are interested in one thing. Political office. They will gleefully put many innocent people in jail to get there.

Recent example: Michael Vick. Yup, what he did, IF HE DID IT, was horrible. But it was a violation of VIRGINIA law. It was Federalized because he is famous & the Federal prosecutor can get on TV. If he were merely a rich man this would have been settled in Virginia courts, where it belongs. Whether he did it or not, if he doesn't plead he is screwed, as the Feds can just pile up more charges, using the testimony of people who have every reason to lie. This should bother folks, but it won't.

One thing prosecutors are not interested in. Perjury. What is the accuser in the Duke case getting in prison time for deliberately making false accusations? Same sentence most women get for lying about abuse for advantage in a divorce case. Wonder what Scooter thinks about that?

Why is perjury by abuse “victims” ignored? Remember that old canard of the left “women never lie about abuse?” Leftist organizations remember, and any persecutor who decided to be a prosecutor & prosecute the commonplace perjury in divorce/custody cases wouldn’t have to worry about re-election, never mind higher office. Prosecuting perjury in plea bargain cases would mean taking on the whole system. In other words, probably getting accused of sexual harassment as well as losing the next election.


Why won't we fight?
It would be nice if we had right wing organizations willing to fight this. It would save the lives & reputations of many good men. But what we have are conservative leaders like Gov. Pawlenty of Minnesota, who was upbraided by Congressman Oberstar, A MAN WHO DIVERTED MAINTENANCE MONEY FROM HIGHWAYS TO PET PROJECTS SUCH AS “VISITOR CENTERS” after the Minn. bridge collapse. But Gov Eunuch couldn’t think of anything to do but mew about how the problem was not waste, but the fact that he himself had blocked a higher gas tax. With Chamberlainesque leaders like Pawlenty, prepare for Presidents like Hill-rah.

foggytrucker
False accusations, like those in the Duke case are illegal. If they get prosecuted they don't get the attention.

"Zero tolerence=zero intelligence".
.

Don't go overboard
The school's reaction to these boys' misbehavior was way out of proportion. But don’t go overboard. Those boys were no angels. They knew perfectly well that laying hands on a girl's private areas was wrong.

The consequences should have been much simpler and more direct -- the girls should have turned around and slugged them. Or, if said girls were too small and frail, the girls' brothers should have slugged them. No brothers? Any gentlemanly boy in the vicinity should have slugged them. Unfortunately for our society we have become so hypersensitive to the idea of "violence" that such simple, just applications of immediate consequences have become unthinkable.

Two stories: I was in the town library browsing the shelves when an adult man pinched my rear. I followed him down the aisle and whacked him on the back of the head with the weighty hardback book I'd been carrying. I don't know if he decided in general that whatever he got out of pinching girls wasn't worth the, literal, headache or not but he never touched me again.

When I was just a little older than those boys there was a boy in my classes who'd mastered the art of unhooking girls' bras through their shirts. I raked his arm with my nails. Being persistent in the way of young males who harass girls they "like" he took to wearing long-sleeved shirts. After explaining to his father why he had scratches on his face he switched to more hand-off tactics such as stealing my pens. ;-)

Society would be a better place if our culture still understood that the consequences for boys not keeping their hands where they belong should be delivered immediately and memorably preferably by the girl involved, her brothers, or her friends. And if the adults should catch them, the boys should be offered the choice of 3 days detention or 5 swats with a thin, wooden paddle. The anti-corporal-punishment nuts would be shocked, but I remember most students preferring the paddle.

The Schools and Blue Thugs hate boys
Schools hate boys. They do everything possible to destroy the boys who fall into their care. The blue gun thugs are the feminazi army, doing the bidding of men/boy hating feminazi. I am not surprised that the misandrist hate mongering bigots who run this school used an excuse to destroy some boys. Evil in blue suits, evil posing as "teachers" is now running out nation.

Instead of these sick, liberal, hate organizations our taxes ought to be cut to 10% of our income and we the people ought to be again allowed to educate our own children.

Bob

Catch more of The World according to Bob at: http://bobstruth.blogspot.com

Jestak gives an incomplete picture
Yes, Prager described the boys' behavior as playful because that is what it was as part of "slap butt day". Weren't you ever a kid? Jestak erred in omitting the fact that Prager described "slap butt day" as low-life and repeatedly noted on his radio show that the boys' behavior was inappropriate school behavior.

Let's be honest, they are normal boys. It is the school's responsibility to officially put a stop to activities such as "slap butt day" and discipline students who ignore the warning. By discipline I do not mean treating them as criminal perverts, but as kids acting up.

Jestak was desperately seeking a way to segue into another topic, namely capital punishment. He did so by accusing Prager of erring and giving an incomplete picture. Typical lib MO - accuse opponents of what you yourself are guily of.

Phylo
You have one of the most extreme cases of BDS I've ever witnessed.....are you this delusional and unhinged in the other aspects of your life?


JUSTICE?
There is a woman in Selmer Tennessee who loaded a shotgun blew her sleeping husband away as he slep in the bed, left him bleeding on the floor, asking '"why" as he died, grabbed the children and ran off to a vacation spot on the beach in Fla., who served 67 days. She is back out on the street trying to get her kids back from the husbands parents. A pastor's wife no less. There are child molesters in the liberial north east and Calif. who get off lighter than these boys. I visit the jail once a month and certainly few there admit to being guilty, However some prosecutors are without common sense, and some judges are without wisdom. In this case the school officals are both. It should never ever gone that far, a simple call to the parents, and extra education in the area of how boys treat girls would have worked very well.

senseless
In my work in public schools, it seems that in the last 10 to 15 years, discipline has become senseless.

I've witnessed students doing things that warrant a harsh response from the adults in the building--extremely foul language, strongly sexually suggestive behavior,etc., and staff seems to treat it as just "kids being kids."

Yet we've all heard cases like the girl who was punished under zero-tolerance for giving a friend a Midol, or the Eagle Scout who was punished after a butter knife from a box of his grandmother's belongings was found in the bed of his truck. Now butt-slap day. These infractions make the national news. Fortunately, when I was in school, had I been caught "butt slapping", I would have received some harsh looks and words from teachers, the administration would have called my parents (God knows what would have happened at home), and I probably would have had some detention or a day of in-school suspension to think about what I did, and in a week or so all would be back to normal.

It seems like we're at a place where we turn a blind eye to discipline problems that should be addressed with urgency, and instead freak out over the actions of children that are the result of the fact that, well, children lack maturity.

Senseless . . .

razor
"Jestak was desperately seeking a way to segue into another topic, namely capital punishment."

That's ok. It gave me a chance to show yet again how confused and addle-brained most libs are. See my 7:34 post.

Phylo
"I would believe that Prager is truly interested in justice...."

I'd believe that leftists were truly interested in justice if they had shown any interest in letting Gerald Amirault out of jail. And if they'd start bashing the patriarchal and homophobic males of the Muslim world instead of treating them as "victims."

School boys charged with sexual assault
Where were the teachers and the heads of discipline (does that exist anymore) while this was going on?

Stop class, separate boys from girls. Pressure them to rat each other out. Suspend offenders immediately for a week, with a warning to the next potential perpetrator of slap butt day that explusion is your destiny.

That will stop slap butt day.

Any school that finds themselves unable to be in charge of the children, should be closed.

gee
ITA Schools are afraid to discipline and then freak out of "zero tolerance" issues.

As a substitute school nurse I had a copy of the school handbook on my desk. Most of the students who came into the clinic were in violation of the dress code, foul language was common, girl fights happened frequently, etc etc.

Rob

The same question crossed MY mind -- what if it were a couple of GIRLS smacking the BOYS on the fanny? Come to think of it, since it was "slap butt day," DID any of the girls in the school commit any similar "felony sex offenses"?

One wonders what the taxpayers of McMinnville think of this use of their hard-earned money.

freak out "on" zero tolerance issues
My point being that if discipline were maintained Butt Slap day would not occur, if it does, crack down on the entire class.

I am glad Dennis is going after this DA. I just wish he would look into Johnny Sutton.

Real sex offenders are allowed to roam our streets but two middle school boys are locked up, this is a bad joke.

lokietek1
You are comparing apples to oranges. I don't believe that anybody on the death row is completely innocent. They may not have committed this particular crime but they aren't angels. Here you have kids who engaged in horseplay and the idiot prosecutor tried to turn them into sexual predators.
____________________________________________-

I agree completely that they reacted way too strongly in this particular case with the two boys, but are you suggesting above that it is acceptable for people to be convicted and put on death row for crimes that they haven't committed just because they might have committed other crimes?

Paula Jo
Good point--by setting boundaries for children, such as dress code, student conduct, etc., and then not enforcing them, children understand quickly that the adults running the school are either cowardly, or just out-of-touch and stupid.

By over reacting on zero-tolerance issues, kids then learn that adults aren't judicious or fair.

This "butt slap" issue should have been handled in-school.

However, I should also add that schools now often throw disciplinary issues over to law enforcement because all too often they receive little to no parental support when attempts at discipline are made.

Paula Jo
I can just imagine someone trying to institute Slap Butt Day under the watchful eye of Sister Mary Bernadette and her Nuns with Guns.

No actually I can't. I can barely imagine Sister Mary Bernadette allowing the use of the word Butt in her domain, much less the slapping of same.

Audi
Right on!

My parents were missionaries in Jamaica for about 10 years, so I went to school there for some of the early elementary grades.

The only slapping that went on there was perpetrated by the teachers . . . and yes, "butt" was a bad word.

Questions I'd like to see asked
Yesterday, Dennis announced that he was going to fly up to Oregon and visit the kids.

While he's there, I'd love it if he could try to get an interview with D.A. Berry. He could ask the man what the hell he was thinking. He could also ask why he never looked into prosecuting any of the other participants in "slap butt day". Maybe Berry could lay out the parameters on what sort of behavior will get any teenage boy jailed, shackled, and strip-searched.

I'd love to hear an interview with the Vice Principal too. Why did he feel this behavior merited police intervention? Why not call the police on the rest of the students who were doing the same thing? And if we stipulate that slapping another person's butt is such a serious crime, why did he allow "slap butt day" to occur in the first place? Wasn't this criminal negligance on his part?

I'd also love to hear an account by whoever decided how to handle the boys while they were in custody. Shackles? Terrified that one of the boys might slap a police officer's butt? Strip searches? What were they going to smuggle in to prison? A battery-operated butt-slapping machine?

The mind boggles.

Phylo Se Fizer

Even IF the law had been able to run its course, and it DID result in the same outcome, it would have been at an evven WORSE emotional and financial cost to these two kids and their families than it already was. This is your idea of JUSTICE? It's mine of political correctitude run amok!

Girls
The girls do get away with this kind of thing. One of my boys had a girl who had been crazy about him for years who decided one day to chase him and grab him by his shirt and drag him. When I complained I was only told they would speak to her. She never had to apologize or replace the shirt or anything. Another girl was given a candy heart that a boy had written "go home" on and he got suspended for 10 days for harrassment. I would have told her to either eat it or throw it out and ignore him.
There is definitely a double standard.
Mother of 4, my daughter would have smacked these boys too. And once the boys know a girl will stick up for herself, they pretty much leave her alone with that kind of thing.

Good to defend these boys, but 1 caviate
What a predicament. The boys did exhibit inappropriate behavior, but as usual, the PC libs who run the schools and the DA's offices turned it into a ridiculous display of lunacy and irrational punishment. The problem is that if you support the boys, can that be misconstrued as supporting their behavior?

The school's I went to would probably send you to detention for a week or so for an offense like this. On top of that, the parents would be notified, and if they were good parents, they'd discipline them accordingly at home as well.
My wife and I have a boy (our first child!) on the way in November, and if I heard of him doing this behavior, he'd be grounded for a month!

Common sense or logic seems to be absent in the minds of school boards, politicians, and lawyers. My question is, where the hell did it go? Supplanted with PC-ness?

Phylo's post
is an example of what annoys me the most on political websites.

I don't care if a person is partisan. However, some people can never stop being partisan long enough to give credit where it's due, or agree with something that clearly makes sense.

Phylo seems to know that the "butt slap" boys got a raw deal, but to agree would mean agreeing with (gasp) a conservative. So instead, he attacks the author's positions (or lack thereof) on issues unrelated to the column.

I can't stand it when people are so partisan that they refuse to EVER find any common ground with anyone else.

Phylo Se Fizer
You are an Idiot!

Only an Imbecile would twist this column around to an Anti-Bush Rant!

gee
I don't care if a person is partisan. However, some people can never stop being partisan long enough to give credit where it's due, or agree with something that clearly makes sense.
I can't stand it when people are so partisan that they refuse to EVER find any common ground with anyone else.

________________________________---

Again, I agree completely. And unfortunately, this is true for both conservatives and liberals.

Confused
The title of the article is:

"Why I Fought For Two Boys I Never Met"

But there is no reason as to WHY he fought for the two boys he never met, did I miss something?

Yes, he spells out the facts in the case

Yes, he gives "testimony" regarding the prosecutor, the families, the girls, the school, but he doesn't say WHY he fought for these boys?

On what grounds did he take up this fight?

What were the motives?

The article is fine as he's written it but he needs to change his title since he's not addressed his claim at the top.

Does someone else have an idea about this?

Nowhere in the article did I read, "this is why I fought for 2 boys I didn't know", etc.

Slap Butt Day
When I was a few years younger than these boys, I remember a day when I was running for my life as one of my female classmates was trying to kiss me. I remember it as if it were yesterday.
I'll bet the liberals reading this will think I'm about to say that I remember it because it was an early form of sexual harrassment or some other newly created mental problem. But that was not the reason for my remembering it so well.
I was running so fast and laughing so hard as I had my head turned to see if I was running too fast or just fast enough - and I failed to see the very large tree that jumped out in front of me. Knocked me out for the count and gave me the biggest knot or my head that I've ever had. Should the little girl that chased me been arrested? Should the school have been sued for allowing such behavior during recewss or lunch break? Should the school have been sued for allowing big trees trees to jump out in front of small children who are running and not paying attention? Today the answers would probably be a resounding YES to all of the above. What can be said about the two young boys in Oregon? You would hope that nothing would be said after the principal chewed them out for running in the halls and failing to keep their hands to themselves and whatever punishment they got from the parents who had been informed of the incident. It should have ended there - not in court or in handcuffs. We are watching the end of every innocent game played by boys and girls for fear of criminal charges.

Justice
One of the major outrages about this case to me is the fact that the boys were not allowed contact with their parents for 24 hours. As a parent this alone would have me climbing the walls no matter what they were being charged with. OK the boys should not have done what they did. But this case doesn't appear to approach any kind of violation that required the legal methods that were used. Suspension from school and some counseling should have been all that was necessary. It is ironic that such a fuss is being made over this but when a female teacher seduces a male student she is made out to be a feminist hero of some type. We parents need to see that the laws give us back control of our children and decrease the authority of the schools. I don't feel that I give up my rights or that of my children at the schoolhouse door.

Bring back the paddle
As I posted earlier: the school should have slapped the boys butts and been done with it. But, of course, we don't allow spanking anymore do we, it was replaced with shackles, strip searches and incarceration. When the age of Political Correctness swept through and decided to throw paddling out the window, they threw common sense out with it.


The vice principal shoule be removed...
... for allowing a minor child to be interrogated without having the parents notified/present.

I believe power has gone to the heads of the VP, police officer and the DA. All of them need to be removed/fired.

My first impression is . . .
that the principal and the DA should both be fired.

I do wonder, though, if this has anything much to do with the valueless 60s. More likely it got personal between the boys and the power figures. It's not a stretch to picture the boys as mouthing off and then one or more of the adults, who never grew out of their own teenage insecurities, decided to use a shotgun for a fly swatter. And THEN maybe the perverted values of our day come into play where such a thing could be allowed to go as far as it did.

Maybe a lot of people should be fired. Like half the town.

I cringe to think what would have happened without Prager's intervention.


McMinnville boys
As I live not far from McMinnville, I have followed this story, but have not been able to read any in-depth analysis. I think your points are well taken. However, the first report I heard stated that the boys also "grabbed the girls' breasts". I thought that 50 years ago, our parents were much more vigilant about teaching their sons and daughters concerning proper demeanor with the opposite sex. Instead of police questioning, the boys should have had concerned adults "talking turkey" to them about the inappropriateness of their behavior.

Boromir's Horn, absolutely!
The abolition of corporate punishment has gravely damaged the teachers' ability to manage classrooms effectively. Thus, we get knee-jerk reactions from irrational libeal policy that doesn't know what to do to punish these kids. The situation here clearly demonstrates the problem. Bring back the paddle, and common sense forms of punishment may start to seap back into the school faculty's collective intellect.

“Teacher sex day,”
This sex problem in schools is not a new problem, except in the story that follows, it was not considered a problem.

65 to 70 years ago I worked for several farmers, three of them, then in their 60s and 70s, had attended a one room school together, years earlier.

They would often tell and laugh about “Teacher sex day,” when all the older boys took turns with the always unmarried teacher. (Teachers were always female and single.) And no one complained, teacher, parent, school board, police, no one.

Now I must say I never discussed this in person (at my age) with any of them, but having heard the story so often, there must have been something to it.

p.c and zero tolerance
Both of these are liberal ideas.Zero tolerance makes it easy for the principal to hand out punishment.They don't have to review or look at each case individually.Gutless administrations in our schools,and zero discipline the inmates are in charge

Getting to the point
I assume all the facts given by Prager are indisputable. Therefore, clearly the shift was from the culpability of the boys to the severity of the treatment of the boys. Somehow, he shifts blame for all of this to social changes from the WWII generation to the present. He should make himself familiar with General "Black Jack" Pershing's experience as a teacher and how he and his troubled student and the student's father and the other students and the school board handled his student's classroom harassment as a model for correcting bad behavior.

So far, by Prager's story, his use of a public forum has been successful in correcting an injustice. However, I remember Walter Winchell's treatment of "Tokyo Rose" in a similar format and how an injustice was created there. Prager can avoid such hysteria by relying on the facts and centering on a standard that creates good behavior. "Slap butt day" looks as much like the product of bad social behavior and poor standards as the combined grossly flawed actions of the school administrators, the police and the district attorney. Regardless, because of their actions they are more in the wrong than the other characters in this drama and Prager is just in making that known.

The boys and their school
Another problem that we have is the school system. The Administration should loose their jobs too for not doing their job and stopping the whole thing then and there. They should of made a school announcement that butt slapping day was over and anyone taking part in this would be sent to detention.
Thats it !!!!!!!!!!!! but wait that would mean they would have had to use common sense.

Tell me something.
At what point in history was the time when boys did not like to “play” with girls, and girls did not like to “play” with boys? These days we are told over and over that the fact the young a lady (or even a older lady) dressed with her bobbies hanging out, and her panties showing, is not an invitation to “come on.”

If you tell me a girl should be dressed as she wishes, and no one should pay attention, you are just out of this world. Boys and men have always been attracted by a beautiful girl or lady, and the less the clothes, the more the beauty. And don’t for the moment think the lady is not well aware of this as she buys the clothes, and as she gets dressed for whatever the occasion.

If we believe the pictures from thousands of years ago, people dressed in layers of clothes, but still males got together with females, both for fun, and for real.

Just look at today’s Muslims, they are covered from tip to toe, and they are having more children than even they can count.

I am not the least bit in favor of any sexual advancement by a female or a male that is not wanted by the other, but let’s quit acting like it’s something new, as described by the femanazis.

Tell me something.
At what point in history was the time when boys did not like to “play” with girls, and girls did not like to “play” with boys? These days we are told over and over that the fact the young a lady (or even a older lady) dressed with her bobbies hanging out, and her panties showing, is not an invitation to “come on.”

If you tell me a girl should be dressed as she wishes, and no one should pay attention, you are just out of this world. Boys and men have always been attracted by a beautiful girl or lady, and the less the clothes, the more the beauty. And don’t for the moment think the lady is not well aware of this as she buys the clothes, and as she gets dressed for whatever the occasion.

If we believe the pictures from even thousands of years ago, people dressed in layers of clothes, but still males got together with females, both for fun, and for real.

Just look at today’s Muslims, they are covered from tip to toe, and they are having more children than even they can count.

I am not the least bit in favor of any sexual advancement by a female or a male that is not wanted by the other, but let’s quit acting like it’s something new, as described by the femanazis.

Sorry for the double
My computer acted funny, then froze, I restarted, and there it was, twice.

Agreed
Slug writes: "Slap butt day" looks as much like the product of bad social behavior and poor standards as the combined grossly flawed actions of the school administrators, the police and the district attorney. Regardless, because of their actions they are more in the wrong than the other characters in this drama and Prager is just in making that known.


=================================================


Agreed.

A REAL ADMINISTRATOR would have shown the "boys" the other side of Slap Butt Day and given them a taste of their own medicine. But to rely on the police and attempt to turn it into a felony is just plain stupid.

Oregon is Hell in America
Oregon has to hell in America, to elect people like Bradley Berry as DAs. The truth is Berry has been involved in slimey, hate motivated things for a long time. He did not get that way overnight. There's no way.

Moreover the people who elected Berry had to know about his inherent inbred penchant for evil. You simply can't hide that kind of perversion.

Yet the people of Oregon decided to overlook his sickeningly grotesque psycopathic nature, and elected him DA.

And guess what? This cross between Chucky and Freddy Kruger became a DA with all the power to prey on little children. Oregonians have to be about the sleaziest most evil low lives imaginable. As to 'butt slapping' being low life, it certainly is , but it is "Oh so Oregonian".

"Why I fought for two boys . . . ."
Boyish hijinx are as American as apple pie. When I was their age, those who got caught got their own butt-slapping. They were sent to the vice principal's office to be paddled. And there was always the proverbial woodshed when they got home. It was a way of saying "what you did was normal, but absolutely unacceptable." I'm not a big fan of corporal punishment, but it should still be an option. I had a large belt, which I would never use, but my three kids were never entirely sure that I wouldn't.

So today, with our "government knows best attitude," you can't paddle the boys, you just criminalize them for the rest of their lives. Somehow I don't think this is an improvement. There is simply so sense of proportion anymore. And out-of-control prosecutors are just another symbol of the breakdown of the concept of ordered liberty.

Personal note to Mr. Prager: You and I met briefly when I was a Simi Valley Planning Commissioner, and President of the Boys and Girls Club. We had our annual auction that year at the Brandeis-Bardin Institute. Those were supposed to be "troubled" kids. Some had been in trouble. They needed guidance, and most got it. But none of them deserved the attention of a district attorney.

Rob
I was running fast enough that she would have caught me if that darned tree had not jumped in front of me when I wasn't looking.

Some Police Departments use the position of School Resource Officer as punishment, some use it to get a lackluster officer off of the streets where he can't hurt anyone (supposedly) and some use the position as it is meant to be used. So I would have to know more about the officer and the situation before I came down hard on him/her. Remember, that officer was at the bottom of the list when it came to who gets to decide what. He may have been ordered by one of his superiors to do what he did. I think the real problem is that we have allowed the 10% to decide for the other 90% when we were not paying attention. The paddle worked on me - well, for a little while anyway. I always needed at least one reminder during any given school year until high school. We need to take back the school boards and other positions that we have allowed to slip into the hands of the liberals and we are now seeing where that has gotten us. Good luck to all who try to work at turning this around.

Law is a lousy parent
... and and even worse god. Boromir's Horn is right: the butts of the boy perpetrators should have been "slapped." Good and hard. Maybe once or twice by the principal, but certainly by Dad.

As with the Duke case, the justifiable public outrage over the politicized prosecutorial zealotry tends to obscure this incontrovertible fact: if you aren't slapping girls' butts in the first place, the possibility of being prosecuted for it is materially diminished.

Call me an old-fashioned prude. Go ahead, it makes my day. The right way to handle youthful hijinks is for parents to be the brick wall against which the young collide when they get out of line. Yes, for those who asked: 11 and 12-year-olds most certainly SHOULD get to middle school already knowing that butt-slapping members of the opposite sex is WRONG and they SHOULDN'T DO IT.

Oregon boys
Girls today are taught by the media, fashion and the culture to be "sexy, hot, little tarts", and grow up believing it is expected and favorable. How are boys supposed to know that they are to treat girls with respect when few girls expect it, demand it and dare I say, even want it. Huge hypocrisy with the feminist message that females should be totally sexual creatures but men are not supposed to notice or respond logically by treating them as such.

Slightly amazed at responses...
If you are "confused" because you can't see that Prager ever gave the "reason" he was fighting for these boys, how about: "...the boys Bradley Berry is abusing are seventh-graders, not college students"?

If you think Prager is minimizing or endorsing the behavior of the boys in question, how about: "there is no member of the World War II generation who could ever have imagined something as low-life as a 'slap butt day' in an American middle school"?

Public schools are a mess. They produce silly kids doing silly things. They also probably produced Bradley Berry. But our society should STILL rise up and defend children against out of control DA's on an egotrip. Good job, Dennis!

Re: Now lets focus on the parents

AudiR10 writes:

> What kind of mothers encourage their boys to participate in
> Slap Butt Day? AT SCHOOL?

What makes you think their mothers even knew about it? It
isn't the sort of thing that kids typically volunteer
information about to adults, especially at this age when
they're beginning to drift away from their parents' influence.


> And yes, I grew up in an Italian neighbourhood and most of
> those parents, who were staunch Catholics, would have knocked
> their boys flat had they behaved that way IN SCHOOL.

Well, there you have it: it's that Catholic guilt about anything
sexual or (as in this case) even remotely quasi-sexual. I'm
reminded of that scene in "The Bad News Bears" where the two
Mexican boys wouldn't wear jockstraps because "it's a sin."

Good grief; calm down. This was just normal adolescent horseplay.
Having actually *been* a teenage boy, I can vouch for that.



-CB-

Re: Don't go overboard

Mother of 4 writes:

> Society would be a better place if our culture still
> understood that the consequences for boys not keeping
> their hands where they belong should be delivered
> immediately and memorably preferably by the girl
> involved, her brothers, or her friends.


Personally, I think society would be a better place if
it didn't teach females to be so grouchily unreceptive
to playful overtures such as these. I think it's the
legacy of our Puritan heritage. As someone else pointed
out with respect to Italians, other cultures take such
things in stride and keep them in perspective, and yet
society doesn't collapse as a result.


-CB-


Re: When the age of Political Correctnes

Boromir's Horn writes:

> There's "zero tolerance" stories all across the nation
> that makes you wonder if this country is going insane.


Yeah, like kids being suspended on "weapons violations"
for making a "gun" out of thumb and index finger and
going "BANG! BANG!" Or like that six-year-old who was
disciplined for planting an innocent kiss on the cheek
of a female classmate.

Give me a break. People have become so damned touchy
and eager to take offense, even on other's unsolicited
behalf. For example, it wasn't the "swattees" who
complained, but some prim and no-doubt feminist teacher's
assistant (who probably hadn't been laid in far too long).


-CB-


re: classymom
writes:

"Huge hypocrisy with the feminist message that females should be totally sexual creatures but men are not supposed to notice or respond logically by treating them as such."

Is this what Rush told you feminism was about? High comedy.

I just can't figure out why Pranger continually failed to mention that these two also touched girls' breasts. Hmm.

Also, as an earlier poster mentioned, if you really want to know about prosecutorial misconduct, goto the Innocence Project's website. Get your head out of your a** and see some real injustice. When you do, you'll see that *gasp* innocent people (*gasp again* almost ALL BLACK) are repeatedly convicted of crimes that they didn't commit. But, as an earlier ditto head mentioned, almost all of those on death row are "guilty of something." High comedy.




Creighton
Do you have kids? Do you have any currently in high school?
Beginning in middle school, the girls are taught that they are victims and that boys and men are at fault. Thankfully, my daughter never bought into that tripe.
It gets worse in high school. Some teachers use thier classrooms as feminazi training grounds. These teachers take themselves very, very seriously. One of my kids' teachers go so mad at her class for not taking her rants seriously that she told them she hopes they someday have the opportunity to have someone point a gun to their heads and threaten to kill them. She told another class that every single time girls and boys have a party, all the girls get raped. She never even had to apologize and is still "teaching".
To put it simply, the public schools do not like boys behaving like boys and have no patience in dealing with them. The administrations are more concerned with keeping the teachers happy so they won't strike and the school boards are made up of a bunch of panty-waists and the state administrations will pass it off as a local problem. So, it has nothing to do with anyone's Puritan heritage. It is plain and simply the feminization (is that a word?) of boys and men.
The old timers with closer ties to Puritans were fond of saying boys will be boys and then taking them to task for it in a sensible manner.
And if you read Motherof4's post, she plainly states she thinks the girls should have hauled off and smacked the boys.

Re: Maybe the School Should Have Slapped

Boromir's Horn writes:

> Maybe the school should have slapped the boys butts
> and been done with it.


Or better still, given the girls a "free shot" and called
it even, then allowed all concerned to move on.


-CB-


Prosecutors?
A decent, intelligent prosecutor would have laughed, then screamed at the cops who brought those kids into custody "Get those cuffs off them and get them home safe and sound! If you ever cross my door with such nonsense again, I'll have your badges!"

Sadly, I don't think there are very many decent, intelligent prosecutors in this country. It's almost an oxymoron, given the nature of the job.

An attorney friend of mine pointed out once, that lawyers become DAs only because they couldn't make it in private practice. He said that somewhere, I can't cite it, so this is only anecdotal, there is a study of LSAT scores and subsequent employment: guess which group averages at the bottom of the LSAT score spectrum?

IMHO, prosecutors are control freaks to make up for their own shortcomings, and this is the natural result.

Come to think of it, a teacher friend of mine says the same thing about vice-principals - they get booted upstairs because they can't make it as teachers.

Creighton
Here's another example of schoolyard insanity--
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16159302/.

This is a story from a few months back about a 4-year-old pre-K student who was charged with sexual harassment after a teacher's aide knelt down to hug him and he buried his face in her chest.

Now, I know it seems a long time ago, but once upon a time in America (if the child was ACTUALLY doing something innapropriate with his face and his teacher's breasts), the teacher would have gently removed him from her embrace, and explained to the child that what he did wasn't proper . . . you know, actually used the situation to TEACH social skills to a 4 year old (isn't this one of the main goals of pre-K anyway?).

Instead, let's show the child that adults have no ability to be judicious in our application of rules and regulations . . .

CB
Now, that's a good idea.
I've told my kids if someone is bullying them, wait until they are off of school grounds and then let 'em have it.

Depends on what you teach
Children have a natural curiosity about their bodies. To be sure, I’m certain that parents can attest to their child’s natural exploration of how it functions, why it does what it does at various ages and humorously, at inopportune times.

Upon a teen’s reaching puberty, for which we all look back and know the ups/downs of that experience, if a parent teaches shame about the body, its functions, masturbation, kissing, sexual intercourse, etc. then it only encourages further exploration into the unknown and the “forbidden”.

Alternatively, a parent shames them into thinking there’s something wrong with the body, it’s functions, it’s power, and its beauty.


Better to teach children natural respect for their bodies; the boundaries of others not touching their bodies unless them deem it okay; the playful games that boys/girls may wish to participate in; and the natural consequences for certain choices regarding the misuse of the body, i.e. drugs, alcohol, sex too early to afford raising a child, etc.

However, it doesn’t happen that way.

No.

There is a sanctimonious manner in which children are treated in such a manner either through coercion, fear, intimidation, control, manipulation, that drives them toward the behavior even further and creates a foundation for shame about the natural body and its potential enjoyment through physicality, be it sex, exercise, performance, etc.

Moreover, there’s only one reason for that to happen.

We all know why.

Hilarious
The topic is middle-school boys slapping girls on the butt, and we get posters here actually waving the banner for that supreme indication of arrested adolescence: the "Everything is a Conspiracy of the Repressed Old Farts Against SEX" argument.

Followed swiftly by an argument made in spite of the millennia during which girls weren't even educated, and had no choice about who touched them and when; and in spite of the fact that Western man eventually concluded that those were BAD things, and that society as a whole was stronger when an environment of self-control and mutual respect was fostered so that it would be safe for girls to get an education, and spend time among boys their age -- in spite of the fact that this is an ADVANCE for society in general and women in particular, we have posters here actually suggesting that we'd all be better off if everyone would just get over girls being slapped on the butt by boys.

Here's a hint, folks. By far the most juvenile attitude it's possible to have is that the whole world needs to change so that whatever behavior you feel like at the moment isn't frowned on. This is the perspective of a TWO-YEAR-OLD. If you're more than about fourteen and a half and you still think that way, well, it's not the rest of the world that needs to change.

To The "Great Patriot"
The self-proclaimed patriot wrote:
"I just can't figure out why Pranger(sic) continually failed to mention that these two also touched girls' breasts. Hmm"

I think you are lying through your teeth, but just in case you're only misinformed or plain stupid, I'll explain it to you:
He didn't mention it because IT NEVER HAPPENED.
I have been following every detail of this infuriating nonsence since day one. No-one, not one person with any knowledge of this case has ever alleged that these boys were guilty of touching any girl's breasts. They did no such thing.

Furthermore the very girls whose butts they slapped were, by their own admission, guilty themselves of slapping boys butts that day.

Sir or madam if you are in fact a patriot, you are the most disgusting excuse for one that I have ever come accross. "Patriots" like you will see our great nation to ruins.

Steve

Jestak
Suspension?? You can't be serious. Detention maybe. The kids are not criminals. They system is screwed up. Sexual harassment is the new buzz word. I heard on the news that the girls who pressed the charges and then withdrew them are also being reimbursed for their "harassment". The boys have to pay them $250 in damages. GOOD GRIEF what a load of manure!

The Peoples Republic...
This kind of thing is all to familiar in Oregon. The People's Republic of Oregon is what the state is becoming known as. Just do a little search of Oregon State CPS see what comes up. Children's rights being violated along with Parental rights. Try this one on for size, you find out one day that you are terminally ill, a little time passes and you are dealing with the illness as best you can and there's a knock on the door. It's Oregon State CPS there to make sure that your children are safe and letting you know that you will be monitored from this date forward to your death. Why? Because you are unfit to be a parent? No, because you are dying and a teacher at your child's school decided that your children were to "tramatized" watching your illness progress. As if the child was not "tramatized" by thinking the thought of being taken from mom. You think I'm exagerating?
Think again. This is just one situation that is happening to a teminally ill single mother who has family support. The child and other children, family memebers were "interogated" by CPS. The number of children that have been jailed and taken from their parents in Oregon is rediculous. Oregon is a state unto its own. A Communist State.

I would love to know
...the ages of some of you who so constantly and self-righteously complain about the "valueless sixties."

My suspicion is that most of you were not even potty trained in those days, much less cognizant of the world at large.

It is too easy to blame today's problems on an era that occurred fully two generations ago.

The same seems true of those of you who think the absence of prayer and Bible readings in schools is at the root of everything horrible. If you had been there both before and after Murray v. Curlett, you would know that the daily devotional period in the schools had become a sick joke at least ten years earlier.

But then I rarely see evidence of a great deal of analytical thought here, just a parroting of prejudices, either right or left of center...

Maggie Please Report
Maggie wrote:
" However, the first report I heard stated that the boys also "grabbed the girls' breasts".

Maggie, if this is true, PLEASE post here and send a letter to Dennis Prager letting him know who reported that lie, so that he can hammer them too.
Cite your source Maggie so that we may all know from whence it came.

Thanks
Steve

Prosecutor abuse?
I listen to Dennis Prager fairly regularly and I know he has been very upset by "prosecutor abuse" by Mike Nifong in the Duke case and now by Bradley Berry in this "slap butt" case. He is probably justified, but I have to wonder about something. A leading Republican Presidential candidate, namely Rudy Giuliani, has a record as a prosecutor-- and has been accused of abuses of his prosecutor power. Now I will admit I don't know all the details and merits of the claims against Giuliani. (Though I usually vote Republican, I have decided not to support Giuliani for other reasons.) But I have to wonder; will Prager take a hard look at Giuliani's record and hold *him* accountable if there is reasonable evidence he abused prosecutor power? Or will Giuliani get a pass because he is a Republican and used his power against what Prager already considers to be Bad Guys?

Trivializing Sexual Crimes
Not only has this DA tried to ruin these young boys' lives, but he has helped to trivialize real sexual crimes. In calling these two boys "sexual predators", does the DA really think there is nothing that differentiates them from the REAL perverts who really do prey on young innocents? Just like all the social activists and feminists who make charges of "raping the environment" or "raping the system" have trivialized the word rape, so does labeling the boorish crude antics of 12-year-old boys as criminal sexual misconduct.

When one looks at the statistics of men characterized as sexual predators and sees that a large portion of them are 20 or 21 year old young men who had consensual sex with a 17 year old girl, the term "sexual predator" becomes meaningless. These young men spend the rest of their lives branded something they really aren't.

When someone sees or experiences the results of a true rape and sees or hears about the life-altering actions of a true sexual predator, the difference between the real thing and those falsely branded with this crime is very evident.

I agree that this DA should lose his job. The ultimate irony would be if he were charged with "raping" the criminal system and designated a sexual predator himself. Perhaps then he could finally understand the difference.

Several thing wrong with this one
First and foremost is this PC oriented zero tolorence crap directed towards kids that have no real concept of what they are doing. Secondly the fact that the police questioned these kids without their parents present and after that they are read their rights means, if I have any undertstanding of the law, that the whole thing would be thrown out of court regardless. Should it have ever gotton as far as it did? No way. It just goes to show that our schools along with our legal system is out of control and commonsense seems to be outlawed. This is a real travesty. Those kids will be tramatized for a long time. If I were the parent I'd be talking to a civil attorney. Yeah the kids were wrong and they should of been the ones getting butt slapped but that should have been the extent of it. The world is truly going nuts.

beachmom?
What is the accuser in the Duke case getting in prison time for deliberately making false accusations?

What was she charged with?

everyday
It happens every day in court all over this country, to get the bail higher or bias the judge, prosecutors say there is more evidence or that further charges are pending, and it is unethical.

Scared
All I know is that my child will be starting school in the next few years and while I realize its a ways off yet I grow angry at the thought of my child being in the public school system today. I realize this was just in "good fun" all of us grew up doing it. I believe a swat from mom and pop and a explination of the proper treatment of the fairer sex is all that was needed on this occasion. Dont understand the need to strip search 7th graders

"Maybe if I give the terrorist my lunch money he won't blow me up"

It's very simple, the feminists...
...have bought and paid for the DA, Berry, and all the rest of the libs/lefties who think that the suffering that women have suffered since the beginning of time should be paid for by these two silly kids, or any other silly male.

Berry is incompetent and should be removed.

We should all do everything we can to neutralize feminism. I DO hope you all know what I mean.

dyerje...
I have just recently been reading the posts at TH and I have to say you are one of my favorite thinkers! There have been several spot on posts (Audio10, for one) and several that left me scratching my head! But I think your post was straight to the heart of the matter!

Thanks!

Dennis Prager and 'slap butt' day
The only thing that should've happened to these boys is perhaps spend time in detention. I know the girls weren't offended by it. At least most of them. This is a playful gesture, for the most part and it certainly is not going to cause these young boys to be sexual predators. Give me a break, to whoever commented about this causing some to be sexual predators. I am sure the girls giggled. I know I would have. I have a playful personality and trust me I am a good Church-going Christian. I also remember being a kid and I, myself have slapped boys butts from time to time, at least when I was an older teenager and I know it did nothing for me. I was teasing/flirting. I kind of doubt it did anything for the guy, except make him more aware of my presence and some guys were irritated by it, as a matter of fact. People are definitely going too far. If these boys get in trouble for sexual harrassment, then why not arrest girls/women who dress provocatively? I see that as sexual harrassment and decent men might too.

If the two boys had committed a burglary
If the two boys had committed a burglary and been caught they would be shielded from any exposure and released in about an hour. Eventually they would receive a slap on the wrist. Especially true if they were minorities.
Slapping butt is a much more serious crime if done by white boys.

a - good point!
Last month, Fox News ran a story for one day about two young black boys caught on tape that, as part of some initiation, waited for a white school teacher to exit her class, then beat the life out of her. None of the other news picked up the story. Reverse the rolls, white boys, black teacher and we would STILL be talking about it

Sex: where the western left & right meet
I think there is some cross-over here with left & right. The left's obsession with feminism & over-protection from male sexual attention & the right's obsession with being puritanical. Of the 2, the left is the more fascist. But its by degrees. Male youth are stuck between a rock & hard place, no pun intended.

It needs to be pointed out that sexual squeemishness is not a concept in the East generally (forget Muslim countries for the moment - where far more goes on than meets the eye). Just the west, where the extremists on the right & left moralise & dictate to the rest of us.

On Patton school: yes the kids should be disciplined & warned, simply because in school (as opposed to outside of school) kids natural hormones have to be kept in check to prevent chaos. But that's as far as it should have gone.


Welcome to the real world
what do you expect boys to do when they watch MTV showing young girls' asses girating all over the screen? Have a "write a love poem" day?

Not just slapping
The boys were doing more than just slapping:

"1) Cupping, poking and grabbing breasts, one of them telling one victim he was just trying to determine who had the firmest "boobs."

2) Working as a team, cornering girls, pushing them up against lockers and "dry-humping" them against their will from both sides, as they were helplessly pinned."

And the boys would not stop when asked by many of the girls.

It was not a simple "boys will be boys" offense. It was very serious and should have been prosecuted.

Bailey. CITE YOUR SOURCES!
This is the third time I have read posts here that alleged that the boys did more than run by slapping people on the tush. And this is my third request that the poster cite the source from which they obtained such lies. I have yet to get a responce.
Please Bailey, tell me who spread this vicious untrue rumor to you!

Thank you,

Steve


IdahoGal
Thanks! Sorry I only just saw your post. Stick around -- there's a lot of fun here. (Much of it coming from AudiR10 on any given day.)

The best you can do Bailey?
A link to information about how to get information from the county court house, and one independent amateur dot com "news" site?

Tell me you're kidding.

Even that site says they were "accused" of the breast touching. Accused? By whom? They have better sense than to write the more provable lie that they were charged with that.

If you can't come up with anything more credible than that after all of the coverage this case got, you really have no business spreading these rumors.

Another case of perverted justice
...and in other news, Lindsey Lohan was sentenced to 48 hours in the clink for DUI and cocaine possession. I heard on the news last night that she served a grand total of 35 minutes, just enough to check in and check out. How is that just when a DA conspires to destroy the lives of two young boys who are just boys being boys?

Bailey, I've searched and searched and I find nothing in any of the news stories about the things you allege these boys did other than "butt slapping". Please provide your legitimate sources or stop spreading these vicious lies. You must be a democrat or a global warming theorist.

In all fairness to Bailey
http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2007/08/judge_says_das_office_was_not/print.html

I found this link because I had read something about the touching of breasts, although Michelle Malkin has something in one of her blogs about them also doing something called "party-boy" which sounds basically like what happened in Night at the Roxbury. I don't know how reputable the oregonlive website is, but it claims that they admitted to touching breasts. Even if this is true, it doesn't rise their offense to the level of being labeled sex offenders, although a serious detention or other severe one time punishment with the warning that further violations would have constituted a prosecutable offense would have set the boys straight real quick. What I don't understand is why there wasn't a warning before the rush to prosecute.


"Let the justice system play out"
continued from above...

As for the argument that if the legal system would have played out, the same outcome would have been reached, that is patently naive of the legal process. If it hadn't been for Dennis and his listeners, the families would not have been able to afford their legal counsel, and would have been more likely to plea out had it gone to trial and would have probably had to plea to at least one of the felony charges and could have been labeled sex offenders. This idiotic leftist (I won't besmirch true liberals) idea that everything will be ok if you just get your day in court is assinine. Prager had to argue this point with a representative of CAIR because CAIR wants to be able to sue anyone who reports suspicious behavior. Many Democrats are fine with that because you "get your day in court" but since the person (muslim) being reported against will have the money of CAIR behind them, it would cost a ridiculous amount of money to defend yourself against the attack. Therefore, if such legislation passes, more people will not report suspicious behavior, and that will be a clear case where Democrats have literally made the country less safe. At least in that case it will be undeniable (at least to those who live in reality.)

To Jestak, and others
Jestak, did you know that the girls in this school also participated in slap butt day. Apparently nothing was done to them. Why not, that is sexist on these boys. We in America know that there is injustice in this world. Liberals fight for Al-Qaida don't they. tey want America to lose the war and it is a war, in Iraq. However, when one does the crime, which these boys did not commit any, people should do the time. Including the death penalty. when you murder, not kill, someone, your life should be taken as well. When you allow murders to stay alive you, Jestak, are saying that the murders life is more important then the one they murdered. You (people with your opinion) are the reason are prisons are overcrowded. Mistakes happen, and yes I do believe that dna testing should be used. That way we can be sure that those on death row deserve their punishment. I am a Christian, and believe that when one accepts Christ as their saviour, they should still accept their punishment here on earth for their actions. It's called taking responsibility for yourself and your actions, which apparently is something you lack understanding in. These boys were suspended from school. Now it is time for the Principal, Vice-Principal, and the DA all to be suspended indefinetly. Great job Dennis. Please when you go visit the boys, try to get an interview with the DA, so we, the people can call in and question His stupidity.

G-d Bless,
For Messiah Alone,

rotney
to the guy in florida that called dennis saying he had kissed a girl when he was 14 and now thinks it should be a crime,,go to the police station, turn yourself in and ask them to put you on the sex crimes registry for the rest of your life,,that way we will know you are serious about it, or one that says its sin when others do it,,im waiting on you to do that,,be sure to let dennis know when you do
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