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Tuesday, April 03, 2007
Dennis Prager :: Townhall.com Columnist
On "Outing" Gay Conservatives
by Dennis Prager
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The reason given by same-sex marriage activists for "outing" conservative gays is that these people are "hypocrites" who therefore deserve to have their sexual orientation revealed to the world.

Decent people instinctively recoil at the idea of exposing someone's most personal sexual secrets to the world. Yet, many activists on behalf of gay rights engage in such behavior.

Movements are often better than their leaders -- and the movement to treat gays as fellow human beings created in God's image is a noble one -- but to the extent that a social agenda can be measured by its spokesmen and leaders, gay rights activism would have to be considered one of the least morally appealing movements of our time.

It is difficult to identify a more morally repellent act -- outside of violence -- than "outing" a gay person for political gain. Yet, those who "out" gay conservatives defend their actions -- and they do so by blaming their victims. The victims deserve it, the outers contend.

And why do gay Republicans and conservatives deserve to have the most private part of themselves revealed to the world?

Because, the activists argue, conservative gays are hypocrites, and hypocrites deserve no mercy.

But this argument is nonsensical. If the activists believe this argument, they do not think clearly. If they don't believe it, then they "out" gay conservatives for another reason: They wish to punish gays who do not follow the leftist party line on same-sex marriage and other gay-related issues, and they wish to intimidate other non-outed gays from adopting conservative values on such matters.

Why is the hypocrite argument nonsense? Because it is a non sequitur. Gay opposition to same-sex marriage has nothing whatsoever to do with hypocrisy.

Why can't a gay person oppose redefining marriage to include two people of the same sex?

Why can't a gay person believe that it is best for children to start out life with a mother and father as opposed to two fathers and no mother or two mothers and no father?

Why does one have to be a heterosexual in order to make that argument?

Why is one's value system shaped by one's sexual orientation?

Why does the fact that one is gay and engages in homosexual behavior mean that he must advocate redefining marriage?

Why can heterosexuals think outside their sexual orientation and advocate same-sex marriage but homosexuals cannot think outside their sexual orientation and advocate retaining opposite-sex marriage?

All of this is characteristic of leftist thinking -- that one's thought processes and values are shaped by one's race, sex or sexual orientation. Thus, one routinely hears from liberal spokesmen that a black person who opposes affirmative action based on race is a traitor to his race, an Uncle Tom, and probably a hypocrite since he or she must have benefited from affirmative action.

We are told by feminists that men should have no say on the morality or legality of abortion since men lack a uterus.

And a gay who does not hold liberal views on all matters pertaining to gays is a hypocrite.

And, therefore, such people can be treated with great cruelty. Liberals publicly humiliated Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas in ways no public figure of our generation had ever been humiliated because he was a conservative black. Recently, Bill Maher and gay activists decided to "out" a leading Republican, who may or may not be gay, because he had the audacity to dissent from the left's views on same-sex marriage and some other matters regarding gays.

Why do so many on the left believe it is OK to damage the lives of gay conservatives? Because they are certain that conservatives in general are bad people, not merely wrong on the issues. And because they particularly wish to punish any gay or black person who dissents from the liberal positions on gay and race issues.

For the left, it is a virtue for an American to differ with American leaders, a virtue for a Catholic to differ with Rome, a virtue for a Jew to differ with Israel. But it is utterly unacceptable for a homosexual to differ with gay organizations. Such a person must be crushed. And the way to achieve that is by exposing his sexual life to the world. And then justify it by declaring him a "hypocrite."

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About The Author
Dennis Prager is a radio show host, contributing columnist for Townhall.com, and author of 4 books including Happiness Is a Serious Problem: A Human Nature Repair Manual.
 
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One reason I never bought into the whole "Gay is good" is because I know gay people .And I've yet to meet a "gay" (happy cheerful) gay guy yet. And rarely meet one who doesn't blame someone else for their problems.

I work in theater and a coworker, was whining about church which is there favorite subject just behind whatever gay talking points they were fed that week (honestly be you republican, democrat, Christian, whatever you sound so stupid when use those extremely obvious talking points) Anyway this guy was going on and on about how cruel church was and said "Because I'm gay I have to automatically go to hell?"
I said "No, it's because you refuse to give up adultery. You can be as gay as you want but god isn't going to rewrite the bible to accommodate your need to suck a . . . "well I;m not much of a Christian myself. Regular single people can't have sexual relations out of marriage why do you think you should be allowed to?

But in the end gay people don;t want to be happy, which is a common urban disease..

Don't give credit where none is due
"...the movement to treat gays as fellow human beings created in God's image is a noble one...."

Absolute nonsense. Nobody ever believed gays were not fellow human beings, any more than anyone thought alcoholics were not fellow human beings, or schizophrenics were not fellow human beings. Claiming correctly that homosexuality is a pathology takes humanity away from nobody.

The gay movement has always been about narcissism; gays forcing the culture to affirm their normality, to help compensate for the overwhelming feeling they have that they are NOT normal. Gays have held the culture captive to their neuroses, and continue to bend venerable pillars of civilization for mere soul-salving; and in vain, because no matter how many institutions they force to declare "Gay is normal," their inner beings still cry out for more.

There is nothing noble about twisting the culture to salve one's own psyche; rather, it's controlling behavior of the very worst sort.

Terrific Article
Dennis Pragers says it all. I don't care if the homosexual is liberal or conservative, their private sexual life is their business and anyone who would "out" them without their permission is pure mean in every sense of the word.

Geo
...as if one's sexual issues somehow determine one's opinions about government spending, national defense, or domestic programs.

Explain to us why calling homosexuality a pathology (based on LOTS of research) somehow equates to burning crosses. I want to hear the explanation.

misery loves company
You know the old saying, "misery loves company", that's the reason why gays want to out other gays (conservative or not).

Mr. Prager
I think this article is an accurate view of the doublestandards that are held by the Left. In my own life, I have had several homosexual friends, co-workers and even my father-in-law is openly gay. But I found that all of this was not enough for one of my homosexual friends. He claimed that because I didnt share his beliefs that homosexuality is "ok," or that homosexuals should be allowed to be married, that I am a biggot. He completely over looked the fact that although I don't agree with his choice of lifestyle(and I do believe that it is a choice), I am still willing to accept him for who he is. I accept him, despite his personal views and choices, yet he judges and condemns me based on my opinions... and I'm the biggot?

My respect for Prager knows no bounds
Dennis Prager's newest column is another example of the brilliance contained within the cranium of this marvelous man. A moral philosopher, a wise sage, a sheer intellectual maven opining on the imperative issues facing our society.

Dennis, if you are reading this, it is more than an honour to have you as a member of the human race. If only there was a magic elixir that could produce more of your kind -- the world would surely be a much, much better place!

You're too humble to say it, Dennis, so I'll say it for you: You are a living, breathing genius among men, and the only thing surpassing your gifted sapience is the moral rectitude by which you govern yourself.

We love ya Dennis . . . for always!

If You Don't Celebrate
If you don't applaud and celebrate sodomy,homosexuals call you bigot. If you don't join them in the praise of depravity you are a "homophobe".

User Allen is in a hissy fit because user mike_lee dared to tell the truth about homosexuals.

By the way, what' so grand and special about anti-hygienic sexual penetration in an orifice which only purpose is the expulsion of gases and feces?

I Hope That...
Wow! I Hope that user Thunder From The Right's love for Dennis Prager doesn't dam over the homosexual.

Has anyone forgotten??
Some of Barry Goldwater's biggest backers were in fact..gay men. John T. "Terry" Dolan died of HIV but prior to that he headed something in the early 80s called NCPAC (nic pac "morphed" into CPAC..an indispensable part of the modern conservative movemt for prez endorsemt polls). Let's not forget J. Edgar Hoover and McCarthy's hatchet man Roy Cohn. Both were notorious flamers. All of official DC knew this but no one made it an issue. Sexuality (even aberrant sexuality like Hoover and Cohn--who as far as I know never were you know..) was a private issue.
LBJ had a gay aide named Walter Jenkins. Jenkins was arrested twice for propositioning men in the DC YMCA [a coupla decades before the song, mind you!]

None of those gay guys ever once saw what they were doing as being equal to and meriting the same status as a hetero monogamous relationship. Even now most of the long-term homo relationships I know of are lesbians. They pair up and stay together while males remain quite promiscuous EVEN WHEN they are in long-term committed relationships.
Ultimatley when a person can hold political views inconsistent with his/her chosen means of genital satisfaction why would anyone want to condemn that. Its so too faced to say heteros can advocate for same-sex marriage but homos by virtue of being homos cannot hold views critical of same sex marriage.
Thank you Dennis for pointing out that fact!

Has anyone forgotten??
Some of Barry Goldwater's biggest backers were in fact..gay men. John T. "Terry" Dolan died of HIV but prior to that he headed something in the early 80s called NCPAC (nic pac "morphed" into CPAC..an indispensable part of the modern conservative movemt for prez endorsemt polls). Let's not forget J. Edgar Hoover and McCarthy's hatchet man Roy Cohn. Both were notorious flamers. All of official DC knew this but no one made it an issue. Sexuality (even aberrant sexuality like Hoover and Cohn--who as far as I know never were you know..) was a private issue.
LBJ had a gay aide named Walter Jenkins. Jenkins was arrested twice for propositioning men in the DC YMCA [a coupla decades before the song, mind you!]

None of those gay guys ever once saw what they were doing as being equal to and meriting the same status as a hetero monogamous relationship. Even now most of the long-term homo relationships I know of are lesbians. They pair up and stay together while males remain quite promiscuous EVEN WHEN they are in long-term committed relationships.
Ultimatley when a person can hold political views inconsistent with his/her chosen means of genital satisfaction why would anyone want to condemn that. Its so too faced to say heteros can advocate for same-sex marriage but homos by virtue of being homos cannot hold views critical of same sex marriage.
Thank you Dennis for pointing out that fact!

Allen
I am amazed. I thought that your reponse to Inkling was intelligent and backed up by facts. Although I disagree with your statement that Family Research Center is biggoted, you gave more references tha Inkling did. But somewhere after that you started to lose me.
While I agreed with several other points that you made, I think that the personal insults against others expressing their own opinion underscored those points. I am no position to say whether gay people are happy, just as Mike is not. But his opinion I'm sure is based off of what he sees in the media and on T.V. and from any gay aquaintances he might have. In another piece you said yourself "Because by outing a closeted gay person, you are automatically subjecting them to public ridicule, social and professional rejection and religious moral outrage?" These are some reasons one would think that gay people are not happy. Based on my own experience with gay people. I've found that some are happy and some carry a whole bunch of baggage, but I can't claim to be an expert in the field of gay studies I can only tell you what I have observed.
I agree wih you that Thunder was borderline psychotic with his post, but once again... stooping to a personal attack on someone expressing their views. I agree with our assertion that the Republican party is imploding, but think that you are wrong when you claim the conservative movement is in shambles. I think that there is a disconnect between Conservatives and Republicans, and Republicans will continue to lose until they find a Newt Gingrich type of leader again. Once that happens, the Conservative movement will be far from the grave.
Now I admit, I have taken a few swipes at what I percieve as Liberal idiocy, but I try not to attack any of them personally. I just think that your arguments would be more effective if you did the same. Like I said, I agreed with some of your points, but you lost me with the personal attacks.

Allen
It may seem foolish to you, but it's still my opinion.

Allen
BTW- Thanks for the spell check. I wasn't sure on that one. I should have looked it up, but oh well.

I think I should clarify
My opinion on "choice" is based on actions not preferences or impulses. I am not going to bring up the whole argument about pedophiles or anything like that. Gay people may not have the choice to prefer one gender over the other, no more than straight people do. I just believe that the "choice" is made through actions. An example would be that if a man with homosexual preferences sleeping with only women. Because, that man has made a choice to live a "straight" life, is he gay? My opinion is that he is not. Through his actions he has made a concious choice to be straight, despite the fact that he may find men appealing.

Wow! Another angry man!
What a SHOCKER!

I'm sure it won't take long for this thread to be filled with about 200 posts by Allen about "homophobes" with some quotes from the APA about a 50-year old study of only 60 subjects thrown in for good measure.

Silly ad hominems.


There's outing and there's outing
Personally it doesn't bother me one bit when someone who has made it their business to comment on homosexual rights is outed. Ted Haggard may be an obvious example but let's not beat about the bush - if you're going to go around preaching against homosexual rights, both in religious and political terms and you get caught out, you're fair game. If you're not and you're outed purely for political gain then it's a different kettle of fish altogether.

Mike
You don't have to withdraw anything. Like I told Allen, you are basing your opinion on what you've experienced. At least your argument didn't resort to personal attacks, which is laudable considering that very rarely now days do people post an opinion without a personal attack on people with whom they disagree.
Personally, I've had encounters with gay people who are very happy with their lives, but I've run into more gay people who are either miserable or have a huge chip on their shoulder. I choose not to make an assertion about the Homosexual society's overall happiness, because I don't know whether my own experiences are indicative of the general gay population. But based off of my own experiences, it wouldn't be hard to share your opinion.
Don't let personal attacks dissuade you fom expressing your opinion. Think of it this way, if someone needs to resort to personal attacks to add weight to their argument, maybe their argument itself isn't as strong as they make it out to be.

Oh don't worry norman
Don't worry kid, I didn't switch teams (LoL)

Maybe it's late...
...and I didn't catch the sarcasm.

...
That should be a warning bell, telling me I need to go to bed

Zen...
You may think those people are in a state of denial, but I still say that they are making a choice.

maybe you need to go to bed too...
I think that hose was attempting a bit of sarcasm too. He was trying to push the Liberal view that sexuality is not a matter of choice.

Hypocrisy
Also, did you ever notice that these same leftwing activists, when pressed on the head, blame the poor Slavic Uentermensch for the failures of Communism--after bashing everyone else for being "racist"!

LOL homophobe
is an invented word that serves no purpose but infective. It isn't even proper latin.

Homo = same.

As in Homogeneous.

Phobia = The irrational fear of.

As in Arachnophobia.

So everyone who decides to use homophobe is suggesting that we all have an irrational psychological fear of sameness.

As to the APA's pronouncement that homosexuality is not a disorder, that is a very recent addition that only occured after the gay lobby worked to put a person in a position of power to change the definition. Besides, given nearly every psychologist is a bleeding heart liberal looking to cure themselves or society of their pet list of ills, I wouldn't put my faith in it. Homosexuals have never brought any benefit to society through being homosexual and committing homosexual acts.

Brian
You say - "Homosexuals have never brought any benefit to society through being homosexual and committing homosexual acts."
Well, I'm sure you will enlighten me but I'm struggling to think of one benefit to society of my own heterosexual acts. Erm, I bought condomms. Is that beneficial? I suppose it is in the sense the condom companies benefit and I have not fathered any illegitimate children or contracted any noxious diseases. But then again, lots of homosexuals buy condoms too, most are perfectly healthy and most homosexual encounters don't result in fatherless children. I am married and have a child on the way; is that a benefit? But then again many homosexuals have children too - alright, not by homosexual activity but the end result - the benefit to society of having children - is the same. What a nonsensical argument. Can you tell me what benefit your (I assume) heterosexuality has brought?
And homophobe may not match a direct translation from the Latin but it's meaning has come to be irrational fear of homosexuals. Have you never heard of words that have changed meaning? Almost all romance languages derive from Latin but most words aren't a direct translation.

Part
This is just a part of the radical homosexual agenda to make it illegal to speak against the perverted homosexual lifestyle.

Critical Bill
"Well, I'm sure you will enlighten me but I'm struggling to think of one benefit to society of my own heterosexual acts."

They are called "children," CB. They are what allows human beings to have a future on planet earth through species continuance. Heard of them?

Brian
Yes I have heard of them. Did you even read my post in full? As I said, masses of homosexuals have children too, either in marriage or outside of marriage. As I also said, not through homosexual acts but the end result is the same. I'm sure you're not so closeted that you haven't heard of homosexuals with children. Ted Haggard has three of them doesn't he?

Paul
Congrats - funniest Tonwhall post in quite some time... but on second thoughts, one of the darkest too.

Haggard
Haggard is the exception to the rule, and aren't the gay lobby always saying that just having gay sex doesn't make you gay? Haggard, for whatever reason, gave in to human weakness, the source of all sexual sins.

Homosexuals may have children, but needless to say that it isn't really helpful for children to know that dad is gay and simply had sex with mommy one night for shits and giggles. Sure, they won't tell the child until he or she is old enough to understand and will do it with more tact, but the fact is homosexual acts fulfill nothing more than a fetish and homosexuals who create children have gone against their nature andl, unless they are deadbeats, will have to live with thier choice for a few decades.

Brian
Haggard is not the exception - thousands upon thousands of homo or bi sexual people have children and those children, in most cases, lead perfectly normal lives. Often within the framework of a heterosexual marriage. But where is there any evidence that growing up with two dads or two mums makes any difference to a child's wellbeing? Is that any worse than growing up without knowing who your father or your mother is? And yet that seems to be ok with you because those children were conceived through heterosexual acts. Most children born to same-sex parents are conceived via artifical means rather than the "shits and giggles" method you so pleasantly describe. Homosexual acts are nothing more than enacting a fetish? What nonsense. Almost to the point where I'm beginning to think you protest too much... homosexual parents live with their choice in the same way that any other parent does - not just for a "few decades", but for the rest of their lives. What, you think homosexuals abandon their children because it doesn't fit in with their lifestyles? Where do you get that from?

Lets not demonize them
Let's not take it too far. Homosexuality is as old as man it does no good to treat them like monsters. Things seem all right when they're young but it gets progressively lonley as they get older. And I'm sure many of them wish they could have a more normal life with children and a house in the suburbs. But I really don't think they can change, although they could go without sex - that;s not so impossible - I could have my wife write a book for them.

I think the challenge on these boards is to play fair and lose fair and leave the man with some dignity. This slash and burn stuff is pretty painful to watch.

Man, what a lot of global warming.
Just say the word "gay" and watch the fur fly.

Listen up, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgenders and their "allies:"

God is real. His commandments are real--and they are for your benefit and happiness. I know this makes you angry because you are in open rebellion against your Father. If you do not repent and come to him, you cannot be happy.

This is why, every time a normal person exhorts you to be obedient to nature and nature's God, you go through the roof. You've got a feud with God going.

Rebellion is never pretty. The angriest posts you will ever see are from "gay" people. And they'll be full of bs about how you and I are the angry ones. Sure, I admit to a level of anger at a small minority of perverts trying to subvert the culture against the best interests of the vast majority.

But that is justified anger, my friend. Righteous anger is not an evil impulse--note Jesus' anger as he threw the moneychangers out of the temple. It's the rage of the rebellious child against a loving father that is not only sad and evil but entirely avoidable through repentance, that causes the most sadness for the rest of us normal people.

We see the homosexuals' desperate attempts to deny basic reality because no matter how far they run, how loud they scream, or how false their arguments, in their hearts the truth is there and it hurts. Just watch the hate that will be directed not only at the truths I have written but at me personally just for stating them.

Am I a homophobe? I am not afraid of you, perverts. I pity you. You live a sad, small life encumbered by the inescapable knowledge that the entire edifice of legitimacy you struggle to build for your choices rests on a foundation of sand. The moment you die, you will meet your maker and will be called to account, as will all of us.

When that moment arrives, remember the way you reacted to this warning. You can't say that you weren't amply warned.

Thanks for the great column, Dennis
Keep up the great writing. You've got a generation of young people coming up that need your clear thoughts to counterbalance the gay agenda of victims' rights and thought policing.



Conservatives? Homophobes? Mais non
Clearly there are lots of homosexuals who don't feel that the GOP has anything against them. That's why so many homosexuals spoke out in support of Ann Coulter's recent schoolyard taunt aimed at John Edwards. Why there's... erm... and not forgetting whatshisname... erm... well whaddya know I can't think of a single one. Now ain't that a shock.

Homosexual Linguist
Wow! User Critical Bill not only has his homosexual justification down pat, he is also a Latin linguist. Homosexuals never cease to enlighten us.

Why the outings?
Prager and many ‘conservatives’ seem on an endless campaign to make the Republican Party the ‘Party of God and Morality’. To the extent that they appear successful in that endeavor, they do expose their supporters to charges of hypocrisy in much the same manner as Michael Moore owning stock in Halliburton. It’s basic American politics.
Many believe that morality is best dealt with in the church and family. We look to government to deal with issues such as infrastructure and security – topics covered in our Constitution and body of law. Political activists and the parties they represent would do well to understand that.

Incitatus
Nope, not a Latin scholar, gave it up when I was 14 because I was rubbish at it. Although I guess having studied it in any way shape or form does put me in a minority... but I don't see why my four lines on Latin warrant your contempt when Brian's post that I was responding to deserves none. Although I am not a homosexual myself I have no problem with it; as references to my wife might have hinted at...

My Mistake
The way user Critical Bill dominated the homosexual talking points and the passion he employed to defend the choice,led me to think that he was one himself.

"From the abundance of heart, the mouth speaks."

Sorry, I pissed outside the toilet.

Geo
Take off your tin hat and realize the black helicopters circling your house are only a part of your imagination.

Not everyone who disagrees with the radical homosexual agenda is out to torture and kill gays. Your typical (and very old) tactic of, “If you disagree with me on throwing out thousands of years of social tradition and hundreds of years of American Law, then you must be a hate-filled, intolerant, murderer” no longer works.

Since you’re a liberal, that means you want to kill all Christians and any American that earns over $50K per year. Sounds stupid doesn’t it?

CB
I'm with you on this one. "Conservatives" who wish to legislate and control our private lives are every bit as dangerous to the twin concepts of liberty and freedom as the Hillarys of the world who wish for total economic control. Tyranny has no favorites, it is just as despicable coming from the right as from the left. On this issue the bible thumpers are allied with Islamofascist scumbags; sad, isn't it?

For the record, I personally consider male-to-male sex disgusting, but hey, to each his own. As a libertarian (true conservative) all I want is for every government, activist, religionist, etc, to just LEAVE ME THE HE11 ALONE!!!


p.s. EVERY Romance language is derived from Latin.

p.p.s. NO homosexual encounter results in fatherless children.

Incitatus
Thanks to the good people at google I do now know that Incitatus was Caligula's horse, the one he tried to make a senator. Kinda apt in a way, except what you speak is more in keeping with what comes out of the rear end of one of our four-legged friends.

What did it take, 5 minutes?
Not even that. Geo, I'm just the messenger.

I don't have an interest in your going to "hell." In fact, my interst is in your happiness, something you cannot achieve as long as you continue in open rebellion against the very nature of your creation.

I also of course have an interest in the preservation of a culture that encourages normal, healthy behavior and discourages unhealthy attitudes and behavior. To the extent that you encourage the mainstreaming of homosexuality, I oppose you.

That is not "vicious hatred," my friend. It is political and moral opposition. Although I claim the right to my anger at what you are attempting to force on the majority with your false and demeaning dogma, I have not said that this is "vicious hatred" on your part. It is merely sad, misguided rebellion that has dire and most unfortunate consequences on the community at large. I do not hate you. I am commanded to love you even as I love myself.

I note that you, however, are not encumbered by any such commandment. So I find it much more likely, in any comparison between you and me, that you will be the one filled with "vicious hatred." It is you who is in rebellion. It is you who chafes at the "restrictions" placed by your heavenly Father for your benefit and happiness.

I don't "hate" you for your rebellion. I pity you. When judgement comes, I'll have plenty to answer for. I only hope that the atonement will cover me. This hope comes from my faith. It can also cover you if you will turn from your path and repent. You have a choice in this.

If you do not, it will not be because of any "vicious hatred" on my part. The truth exists independent of anything you or I write, say, think or feel about it. Kick, scream, lie. None of that will make reality go away for you.

I hope you have a very comfortable mortal life--because if you do not repent, it's the only comfort you will have and cold comfort it will be.

incitatus
Don't be so upset at thinking CB was gay since he was arguing with all of Prager's comments. CB disagrees with any and all columns on TH....mostly as sport I believe.

Prager could have written a column stating it was bad to kill puppies and grandmas and CB would have explained what was wrong with Prager's beliefs.

buzzkat
We agree on something. Almost like in the historical fiction thread. That must make it twice in a fortnight. Be careful what you write about Latin though or Caligula's horse will pick you up on it.
I'll just add that I find it particularly sad when people who wear their Jewish faith on their sleeves, as Prager does, demonise homosexuals. After all, did thousands of homosexuals not suffer in concentration camps alongside Jewish prisoners?
Anyway, the cricket's starting, so I'm watching that for a bit now. Come on Ireland...

One Really Great Point
Allen has this exactly right. Prager's column founders on its own inconsistency. Why is it a problem to out gay Republicans if the conservative community is so welcoming and friendly toward gay folk? What problems could they possibly have?

We all know the answer. Conservative power absolutely depends on animosity toward homosexuals. And that animosity is an active, powerful force in the conservative community. The only reason outing gay conservatives could be a problem for Prager is that he knows full well how much animosity would be directed toward openly gay Republicans.

I actually am on the fence over the outing issue. On the one hand, I generally believe people's private lives should not be used as a tool for political gain. On the other hand, gay Republicans really should feel the force of that animosity and then decide if they want to remain Republicans. And on the third hand, Republicans made it very clear in the Clinton debacle that nothing is off limits anymore.





Ha ha
Icedog - just read your post - not sure if I can answer that, but I daresay you are probably right! It IS good sport - isn't that why we're all here, to one extent or another? And Prager is about as offensive as it gets so yes, he'd have to work pretty hard to write something I can agree with. Not that he loses any sleep over what I think anyway...

hmmm
Allen=Kimberly??? Quite possibly, Kimbat has dissappeared and Allen wretch has shown up. They both spout the same ignorant tripe and include volumes of personal attacks to cover their weakness in rational thought.

animalgirlisback
seriously, you can't think through that question yourself??? go play with the kids, when logic comes to you, please return to discuss.

How to propagate Marxism
Homosexuals sell us a multi faceted agenda but hide it behind one aspect, to recruit as many goody two shoes as possible. Open your eyes, the homosexual issue is a much broader problem then straights feeling regal and allowing homosexuals to change the icons of our civilisation to suit their narcissist needs. To pervert is a thrill, whether it is to pervert a youth or society as a whole. Homos claim equal rights when what they seek is very unequal. All their talk about money yet two men together certainly earn a lot more then one person supporting a whole family. Isn’t that unfair? For a more hideous look at the not so ‘gay’ agenda check out this
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/02/cultural_marxism.html
‘Cultural Marxism’ by Linda Kimball

Stuck in the groin or limiting oneselve to feel good emotions is a particular chakra which narrows one’s ability to comprehend the total truth.



Here's your sign, CB
>>>Haggard is not the exception - thousands upon thousands of homo or bi sexual people have children and those children, in most cases, lead perfectly normal lives. Often within the framework of a heterosexual marriage.>>>

Thousands more don't have children, a major benefit I'd say, given the damage "alternative" homes have done to society.

>>>But where is there any evidence that growing up with two dads or two mums makes any difference to a child's wellbeing? Is that any worse than growing up without knowing who your father or your mother is? And yet that seems to be ok with you because those children were conceived through heterosexual acts.>>>

How about all the broken homes that exist because of a lack of a father? How about all the children that we feel the need to emasculate and drug up with Ritalin because they are being "too rambunctuous." The fact is, those "studies" that have two same-gendered parents have only ever argued that no permanent harm is done to children. Oh sure, children survive. They also survive extreme poverty and single mothers (to be fair, his father was brutally killed), such as Malcolm X. The fact that he survived such hardships to become a great leader doesn't mean that fatherless homes should be encouraged. Society is decaying because of this fanciful notion that children are just consumer commodities and trophies to show your love and devotion to each other. Homosexuals don't "have" children, at best they adopt them, or create them by going against their "natural tendency" and sleeping with women. A child with two fathers has been robbed a mother so that two dads can call themselves Parent A and Parent B. A child with two mothers has been robbed of a father so that two moms can call themselves Parent A and Parent B. It is the height of selfishness and self-aggrandizement.

>>>Most children born to same-sex parents are conceived via artifical means rather than the "shits and giggles" method you so pleasantly describe.>>>

Ah, children as consumer commodity, wonderful. Want to deprive a child of a father or mother so that you can call yourselves parents? Just get a test tube or some woman to hold your baby for you until you can pick it up from the dry cleaners.

>>>Homosexual acts are nothing more than enacting a fetish?>>>

Yes, as are beastiality and pedophilia. No correlation? Tell that to NAMBLA, who are trying to make pedophilia an acceptable sexual practice. The slope is slippery, Critical Bill.

>>>What nonsense. Almost to the point where I'm beginning to think you protest too much... homosexual parents live with their choice in the same way that any other parent does - not just for a "few decades", but for the rest of their lives. What, you think homosexuals abandon their children because it doesn't fit in with their lifestyles? Where do you get that from?>>>

The statistics show that homosexuals have more partners in a month than heterosexuals have in a year. Faithfulness isn't in a lot of their repertoires. You want to hold Haggard as the rule? Then homosexuals, who are statistically far more likely than evangicals to leave their partners which they "love," which these days tends to be defined as "have sex with," are the rule.

Geo
You honestly believe that "conservatives" think all homosexuals should be tortured and killed?

You state the conservatives "court the most hateful voices in our society".

Obviously something very traumatic has happened to you, but actually you have it backwards. The liberals in this country are the ones full of hatred and vile....turn on Rosie, or read about the Utah protestors.

Heres a little test for you:

Select the liberal and conservative from these two.

A. This individual is happily married with two children. She makes a comfortable living, pays her taxes, and her family is well-respected by her neighbors.

B. This individual is in a constant state of extreme depression and takes multiple drugs in order to "get by". She burns the American flag to show her anger at the American government... while she waits for the same government to send her the welfare check that is "owed" to her.

Irony
Does any one else see the irony in homosexuals ("gay sex is perfectly normal") using "He's GAY!!" as a method to attack and punish someone?

allen - stop whining like a woman!
allen stop whining. you sound like a scorned woman

Speech Code Alert!!!

.....Dennis ...

.....Gay is a politically correct speech code for homo-sexual ...please do not give in to the anti-free speech politically correct crowd ...

....STAMP OUT POLITICALLY CORRECT SPEECH ...SUPPORT THE FIRST AMENDMENT ...

.....How do you tell a Conservative homo-sexual from a Liberal? ...

A. The Conservative wears a condom ...

.....Personally I think homo-sexuals should be allowed to marry ...I mean why shouldn't they have to go through the same H*LL as heterosexuals? .....COLOSSUS

Good Hate vs Bad Hate

.....Geo ...

.....I think you hate Conservatives ...is your hate good because it is Liberal hate? .....COLOSSUS

jmadison
I listen to Prager almost every day and I am convinced that he is not a "homophobe." He is actually one of the most honest, logical thinkers on the radio, if not the most. Although I must agree with jmadisons arguments on the consequences of sexual immorality, i disagree with the approach. Even if you are not a "homophobe", you come across that way. Isn't that what's important? Jesus would approach the situation with love and mercy and compassion. Even though we know homosexuality is a sin we all fall short. God would not make someone gay in the womb only to condemn them to eternal damnation. It is a choice.

Geo
Conservatives don't hate homosexuals - just the perverted behavior of homosexuality which is a chosen behavior.

Torture homosexuals? Only if their names are Nero, Hitler, & Reno - homosexuals who barbequed civilians without discrimination of sex - male & female, or age - adults & children.

Animalgirlisback

.....Was Bill Clinton having a homo-sexual affair too? .....now that is one horny dude .....COLOSSUS

Allen

.....You are a heterophobe ...nyah nyah nyah .....COLOSSUS

Gays and the dems
The gay movement and their supporters have demonstrated a serious double standard over and over again. They claim that they simply want equal rights for gays at the same time they attack those that disagree with them. They call their opponents bigots and homophobs. They criticize religious beliefs. It is not enough to tolerate homosexuals one must celebrate and agree with their lifestyle. Many of the gay supporters want hate speech laws similar to what they have in Canada where it is a criminal offense to make any type of anti gay statement. It is true that the Bible prohibits homosexual acts, however, if one has the audacity to believe that the politically correct will condemn.

The point that I gleaned from Dennis' piece is that the homo promo group go after non-liberal homosexuals out of disdain for the right. Also, why is it that some people have to run their seuxality up the flagpole?

Brian
Don't have time or space to answer all of your points - some of which seemed to back up my post rather than to refute it. Anyway, I will answer a couple.
"Want to deprive a child of a father or mother so that you can call yourselves parents? Just get a test tube or some woman to hold your baby for you until you can pick it up from the dry cleaners." Well, without test tubes most homosexuals that want children would not have them. The reality is that it most children born to homosexuals would not exist in the first place were it not for artificial insemmination. What you are saying is that these children should not exist in the first place, and should not exist because of who their parents are. For someone who bangs on about children, that's sort of a funny attitude. Also, calling these children commodities is a gross insult to any parent. Prove it rather than just make blanket insults.
"The statistics show that homosexuals have more partners in a month than heterosexuals have in a year." That may well be true of single homosexuals, and I daresay it is. When I was a twenty-something single man I'd have happily taken as many partners as I could have. unfortunately that relied heavily on my chatting women up skills, which weren't the best. Most young men are like a dog with two d*cks, as the saying goes, so perhaps it's no wonder that homosexuals tend to be more promiscuous. But does that stat hold true for older homosexuals in stable relationships? I'd guess that it doesn't.
And by the way, the best marriage for a child to be born into is an atheist or agnostic one - far lower divorce rates than evangelicals.


Truth
Homosexual relationships are inferior to normal relationships.

MM Beware
Homosexuals, and especially "conservative" homosexuals, are a dagger drawn to the heart of conservatism. I would never out them myself but if their fellow homosexuals want to "out" them, more power to them.

Brain
Do you realize what logical weirdness you are trying to perpetrate? You provide example after example of the ways in which tens of million of heterosexuals fail their children, and then try to blame that on homosexuals.

If the welfare of children is truly your concern (which I seriously doubt), you would be up in arms about straight people: they screw up their families in numbers that make any gay failings seem insignificant.

Oh, and lest this be lost in the discussion, homosexuals have higher incomes, more education, and higher rates of home ownership than straight people. In fact, in most measures of socioeconomic success, they outstrip straight people on the whole. straight people

Gays, choice, marriage and bashing
Years ago, my gay brother raged that gays should be able to marry and get the tax benefits that married people get. I asked him if he would be happy to pay the "marriage penalty" that taxed married people more than single people (he was unaware of that inequity in tax law). He stopped raging in favor of gay marriage.

My gay sister's partner cheated on her and left her after more than 20 years together. She hinted that "marriage" would have protected her. I asked if she would actually want to FORCE her partner to continue to live with her and she had no response. I pointed out that dissolving an unofficial partnership was actually easier than involving courts and lawyers (although not easy, obviously, either way).

Neither of these people are stupid. I refuse to believe that, after weighing the pros and cons of sexual preference, they CHOSE homosexuality--based on their desire to be hated and/or feared by many? I know that I never "chose" heterosexuality, it just happened. I suspect that few heterosexuals can recall their great struggle and their reluctant decision to interact sexually with only the opposite sex, based purely on their religious beliefs. And that is why I quickly dismiss anyone who claims sexual preference is a choice--it's not a thinking position.

I'm constantly surprised that gays are not offended by attacks on other gays, as long as those others are conservatives and their attackers are liberals (e.g., that clumsy reference to Dick Cheney's gay daughter during the v.p. debates, hoping to play on anti-gay feelings of the Right--it just didn't bother anyone in the gay community). Gay bashing is okay, as long as it's a conservative gay being bashed (conservative gays have no feelings).

I find it almost inconceivable that some gays think that the only political issue of any import is "gay marriage." Not taxes, not the War on Terror, not crime (unless it's "hate" crime against gays, of course), not border control, not use of the tax code for redistribution of wealth--nothing is as important as gay marriage--which is why no good gay could possibly be a Conservative. And certainly no good gay could possibly NOT want the term "marriage" redefined (accompanied, of course, by the recall of all outmoded dictionaries wrongly defining marriage as between a man and a woman).

I'm surprised, too, that gays in the U.S. don't loathe the Middle East terrorists, who don't merely deny marriage to gays but also kill them. Why do they so loathe the Religious Right in the U.S. (who must, rightly or wrongly, believe practicing gays are sinners) but are silent regarding the Religious Terrorists who would publicly murder them, to the applause of the Believers in the Middle East? (Rosie's "they're mothers and fathers, too" ignores the fact that they proudly strap bombs on the little tykes and send them into crowds to murder innocents, ignores too that they would hang or behead her if she lived among them.)

Are there thinking Liberal gays? (Not Rosie, judging by her spew.) And do they think it's fine to hurt Conservative gays? If so, it seems THEY are the ones with double standards.



Just a Question
I know Barney Franks is an openly gay representative. I don't know of any openly gay Republican Conservative. Why is that. Don't bother answering that one, this audience is a self evident response.

Do I agree with the gay outers? No, their tactics are reprehensible to me. But, unlike Dennis and his fans, I can understand why they do it. As one of our founding fathers said, "we must all hang together or we will surely hang alone".

my 2 cents
Icedog and jmadison, great posts. jmadison, you said it best: "a small minority of perverts trying to subvert the culture against the best interests of the vast majority." how true.

And where's Kimberly? She must have transformed in to Allen. Her posts were hysterical!

Just curious as to what gays will do/have thought of doing after *IF* their same-sex marriage agenda becomes law? In other words, what happens next? What will you fight for next and when will you stop? I, like so many people, feel your agenda is a narcisstic goal - you just want societal acceptance of your perversion. Again, it's not hatred but I really doubt I'll ever convince you of that. I do not hate gays, I just disagree with your behavior.

I find it interesting that in most if not all the gay posts here, they were the ones to bring up the words hate/homophobe/bigot etc.

off topic but…
here is a great example of a fine Republican gentleman taking the high road -literally. I was just in the john here at work where we have only three stalls. I was in the furthest when another fellow entered the bathroom. Now, intead of claiming the stall next to mine which would have been annoying close, this guy willingly takes the one furthest from me - a handicapped stall which has one of those uncomfortably high bowls. As I peeked under the hanging wall and caught sight of his tassled loafers dangling above the tiled floor my heart was filled with a peculiar warmth and I thanked God for this small gesture of considerartion paid to me by a another truly civilized soul. Sorry, had to share. Maybe I should get my own blog.