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Tuesday, December 19, 2006
Dennis Prager :: Townhall.com Columnist
The world in 2007
by Dennis Prager
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On the eve of the year 2007, it is evident to anyone with the fortitude to see reality that the world is not getting better, nor even staying the same, but getting worse.

There are a few positive developments. But they are mostly technological and medical. More people are eating better and living longer than ever before. And the Internet gives more people access to more information (and more lies) than ever before. But aside from medical and technological progress, there is little positive to report. And, as always, the technological breakthroughs are frequently morally mixed bags.

Almost wherever one looks, there are more reasons for pessimism than optimism.

Africa is probably in worse condition than at any time in recorded history. Though often exaggerated, great numbers of young and middle-aged people are dying from AIDS; corruption in Africa is so widespread and deeply rooted that aid workers are telling the West to stop giving funds to Africa because those funds only serve to prop up corrupt regimes and increase poverty, malnutrition and violence; about three million people have died in the ongoing wars in the Congo; and the Islamic Arab regime of Sudan has allowed or directed genocide.

In Asia, China, sitting on reserves of over a trillion dollars, is beginning to regard itself as a world power, and most of where it meddles, it plays an immoral role (regarding Iran's nuclear weapons and the North Korea regime). As China's economic power grows, it will increasingly seek to flex its muscles. This could mean tension over Taiwan, but it will even more likely mean that Japan will try to become a military power once again and perhaps develop its own nuclear weapons -- because of North Korea's weapons and because of China's strength and ambitions. A strong Japan, given North Korea's lunatic regime and China's drive for regional dominance, is a positive development but an unfortunate one nevertheless.

Russia, like China, increasingly uses its power in immoral ways, and its government is becoming increasingly authoritarian.

As bad as Africa and parts of Asia are, the Arab world is in many ways in even worse condition and poses a far greater threat to world stability. The Arab world is largely divided between corrupt regimes and Islamic totalitarians who await the downfall of those regimes. Since World War II, the Arab world has sought a solution to its backwardness -- first in nationalism, then in Pan-Arab nationalism and Marxism, and now in Islam. "Islam is the answer" is the motto of vast numbers of young Arabs (and Muslims elsewhere), and the Islam they are referring to is often not benign. Making matters worse, the Arab world is consumed by hate. Hatred and oil have become its primary exports: hatred of Israel, of America and of other non-Muslims in its midst -- e.g., Maronite Christians in Lebanon, non-Muslims in Sudan and Christians in the Palestinian territories.

This hatred within the Arab world is in turn the product of a culture that values face-saving over truth-telling. To this day, the Egyptian government and public deny that the EgyptAir jet that fell out of the sky in 2000 did so because the pilot, an Egyptian Muslim, decided to kill himself and all those on board. The majority of the Arab world does not believe that Arabs plotted and executed the 9/11 murders of American civilians. And it widely believes that Jews slaughter non-Jewish children to use their blood to bake matzos on Passover; that Israel spreads AIDS in Arab countries by sending AIDS-infected prostitutes into Arab countries; and that "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is a genuine text authored by Jews conspiring to take over the world.

The Islamic world at large is increasingly influenced, and sometimes dominated, by a violent expression of religiosity that seeks to impose itself on any society it can. One of the largest Muslim countries has declared its desire to see Israel annihilated and is presumed to be developing nuclear weapons that would enable it to do so. Anti-Semitism in the Arab and Muslim worlds has reached levels most of humanity thought had been vanquished along with Nazi regime.

Western Europe is disappearing demographically and culturally. Like other secular societies, Western Europe is not repopulating itself and has relied on importing immigrants to provide citizens and workers. Most of them are Muslims, and many of them loathe Western Europe and its values. It is difficult to imagine any other future scenario for Western Europe than its becoming Islamicized or having a civil war. Western Europe is the first secular society in human history and consequently believes in very little beyond having a secure and comfortable life untroubled by war, work or children.

The increasing influence of the world's Left makes combating the above problems very difficult. The Left dominates the world's news media and universities, is regaining power in Latin America, and is socially as well as politically dominant in most Western European countries. And it either sides with America's enemies or makes combating them far more difficult. Thus it is increasingly common to see Che Guevara pictures at Hezbollah rallies in Lebanon and to see Western leftists, like London's mayor, honor radical Muslims.

One society stands opposed to all these developments -- the United States of America. But that society is itself deeply divided. About half holds the values of Western Europe; and the other half believes that Western European values -- essentially secularism and socialism -- are anathema to America. The latter half believes America must remain true to its founding principles: Judeo-Christian values; individual freedom and small government; and a melting pot rather than multiculturalism.

Which side wins will determine the fate of mankind for a century or more. And you can't win if you are naively optimistic.

Happy New Year.

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About The Author
Dennis Prager is a radio show host, contributing columnist for Townhall.com, and author of 4 books including Happiness Is a Serious Problem: A Human Nature Repair Manual.
 
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2007
Dennis,

The reason why the world isn't getting any better? The world has lost its way, in the of eyes of The Lord. Everythng is materialistic. We have become a world of pagans. I believe the Tribulation, as discribed in the Bible will start in 2010. Blow me off as a Christian Radical, but, "it is what it is". The beginning of the end.

On the bright side,
there have always been wars and rumors of wars. On the dark side, there are more wars than rumors nowadays. Bu which I mean the reality is as bad as the fears. Prager didn't touch on South America, where things are not going so wonderfully. Any bright spots at all? India, maybe. Australia. Japan? -- well, it's depopulating, and will cease being Japanese in time. Um ... Fiji? -- no.

Western Europe had been a beacon of sorts -- for all it's "white man's burden," what the white man felt obliged to do was eliminate disease and starvation, and wife burning, and clitorectomies. Now the white man thinks such burdens are racist.

Ah well. If we reframe the issue, not in terms of "white man," but rather in terms of enlightened and benevolent progress, the idea remains valid. We have something to offer, and it is worth fighting for the continuing ability to share it. The fact that ours is a society that will share, even with those with whom we disagree, is our validation. The Red Crescent serves only coreligionists. The Red Cross serves all. That says it.

My point? If Western Civilization remains, today, only in Red State America, then that will have to be enough. Do you have sons? Send them into careers in the media. Send your daughters not to be elementary school teachers, but professors. Meet the enemy on their own ground, and take it from them.

Simple. It just takes an investment of time. Another year down. But there still must be time. Right?


J
http://forgottenprophets.blogspot.com/

What a dismal outlook
Depressing, most definently, but you can't say that we didn't hear the warning bells ringing loud and long, starting with Bush 41, and even before. But before that we had Reagan, and love him or hate him, it always seemed that someone was in control of things and making the necessary decisions. Then we had Clinton, who's most eggregious sin wasn't that he banged some fat jewish intern, but that he through away a chance to shape the world, snuff out all the little Bin Ladens and secure a pax Americana for many decades to come while he was busy banging a fat jewish intern. Now we have Bush 43 who's heart is in the right place in most instances, but continually insists on playing by the rules of his apponents and following misguided ideas to cataclysmic ends (I'm referring to his transnational trend and open border policy in this case, not Iraq). Even if there is no hrrendous terrorist attack against us, such as a nuclear explosion in a major city, we will be so diluted by uncontrolled immigration that we will no longer be one people (under God), but a bunch of warring tribes in another 10-15 years. Hell, we already are a bunch of warring tribes, it's just not turned to a hot war yet, instead using lawyers, political pressure groups and influence (propaganda) peddling outlets (schools and media). It won't take much more to turn things into a hot war in the near future.

P.S. Loyal Democrat, go back to the Daily Kos where you belong and stop waisting space here.

Dennis Prager says
"Which side wins will determine the fate of mankind for a century or more. And you can't win if you are naively optimistic."

I wonder if we are closing in on the tipping point soon to be seen in 2008, if we get that far. Are we going to choose, as a nation, a government that leans so far left that we will descend even further into the secular, socialist society that has decapitated Europe?

Europe became a void and that void is filling with the Muslim world who do not/cannot assimilate into society, so the hatred continues.

Or can we learn from historical facts that if we don't stand for something, it will be our demise?

Optimism is a thing of the past. It ended on 9/11 when our world changed forever. Now, with the short memories we have it is all but forgotten, and the dangers ahead.

Half the country believes if we only play nice with the enemies all our problems will go away.
The other half believes we must stand and fight to preserve our way of life that we have lived for over 200 years.

The only shred of optimism I feel is when I see and hear our young men and women who are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. They do not see our fight as meaningless or useless. They are brave and hold values that some of us have thrown away. We can all take a lesson from these courageous young people, the ones who have the fortitude and backbone of our older generation who fought WWII.

For lighter reading, come visit my blog and tell me your Christmas memories.

What happened to FDR4Rushmore?
One of the most regular, if least popular, posters on Townhall seems to have disappeared. Every post he ever put up looks to have been removed. Any suggestions?

Conservatives -- doom & gloom
Dennis Prager is right in his gloomy prognostication!

Prager states that about half of the American population is on the right side of the argument. Obviously, he means the conservative half of the population. However, most conservatives don't really know what they are supposed to be 'conserving'! So, if the fate of the free world depends on this fraction, they'd better figure out what went wrong.

Otherwise, Prager's doom and gloom prognosis will become a reality.

Ask a conservative what s/he is trying to conserve and you will hear a melange of the following sentiments.

"We are conserving:
* religion
* traditional (but un-defined) American values
* motherhood and apple pie"

Conservatives lost the idealogical battle right from the start - and have been locked in a slow, diminishing death-struggle since then. That is because most Conservatives base their ideology on faith, rather than reason.

The faith/religion mystical ideology leads to an automatic belief in a benevolent State and an altruistic society. This allows the germ of socialism to thrive - and all that remains is the DEGREE to which it is allowed to survive.

As a result, Conservatives (and Liberals) are lurching leftwards with every passing generation. Liberals now openly align themselves with socialism. The Conservatives of this decade are indistinguishable from the Liberals of a few decades ago!

Where should conservatives fight back to regain their ideological position? Certainly not in the grey (but vote-rich) areas of 'social' issues such as gay rights, abortion, Christmas ..

We need to make a concerted push in the big areas that have been consigned to the bonfire of socialism.

Here is a partial list (but, boy, is it a good one!):
* Public Education (what a terrible mistake)
* Nationalized health care: (oh yes, it's coming; and it will be 'Conservatives' who will propose it as a panacea)
* Welfare (how's that worked for us?)
* foreign policy (we should lead with the MORAL strength provided by CAPITALISM). If you are asking yourself "How can capitalism be moral?", thank your 'free' Public Education.

While we Americans are doing the right thing - almost reflexively - by fighting the Global War against Islamic Terrorists, we too are hamstrung by our own fascination with collectivism. Whether it is preached by the current crop of near-socialist-Democrats -- or by faith-based-Republicans, we seem incapable of articulating (and therefore exporting) the basis for our own successes. How can a believer of one faith-based system claim that there is anything wrong with another faith-based system? The fact that the other faith-based system condones or even encourages the killing of non-believers, just makes its practitioners more consistent (albeit extreme) in their faith!

Instead of prattling about 'spreading Democracy', which conveniently ignores the fact that Democracy is only an instrument, we should be talking about what America, a Democracy, has created:

* Capitalism
* Individual liberty
* Freedom of Religion
* Freedom FROM religion

We should be able to export those ideas consistently, without compromise, and without the evasion that usually passes for intellectual discourse today.

Loyal Democrat
LD, are you suggesting that the situation in the world is the fault of America because we will not accept Muslim ways??
Well, if Islam takes over the world, I want you to know that the life you live will change and in fact, you want have this critical voice you seem to have the freedom to use.
It is not the West's responsibility to do what is best for all people. It’s amazing all of the money the Arabs have but fail to help their own people. Instead, they use it to make bombs and kill people. They use their money to brain wash people into a hate mentality. Yeah, I guess the world is going to hell in a hand basket and it’s all AMERICA'S FAUT!! "NOT"

Sad to realize that
Kimberly, who was unerringly wrong but at least always gave educated reasoning in her posts, has now been replaced by Loyal Democrat, who is so crazed by his communistic ideas, that he cannot be taken seriously and evidently will provide us with many future posts outlining his ignorance. The sad thing is, his reasoning is probably the view of countless other persons who do not take the time to add their opinions to Townhall. That such ignorance makes sense to any educated American is to me of far worse worry than the honesty that Dennis Prager told about today.

Inability To Appreciate Irony
As a Brit who is a keen reader of this site I am pleased to report that all my preconceptions of Americans being unable to appreciate irony have been confirmed. I'm certainly further to left than the contributors on this site but find Loyal Democrats obviously ironic posts very clever, insightful and amusing. Sadly you Conservatives seem to be missing out on the joke that is for your benefit.

down the tubes
It looks gloom and doom, no doubt! Mr. Prager accurately describes the problem. Everyone that has chimed in has given their "liberal" or "conservative" solution. All I can say is, it is amazing that our country has been able to prosper with all the points of veiw, based on whoever's "God" guides them. I happen to be on the side of those who respect and honor timeless morals and principals from the Bible. Yes the founders of this great "republic" set up a country based on the morals taught in that old book. They were careful to set up a nation that was separated from a particular churh, but remained steadfast on holding onto God, as referenced in founding documents, inscriptions on gov't buildings and presidential addresses. "Except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it" and "blessed is the nation whose God Is the Lord". It doesn't mean that everyone in this country has to believe in God personally, but truth and principal stand alone! And the society that flourishes best is the society that honors God, life, and the traditional family. I'll take the blessing of God, over human reasoning any day!

Greetings from decaying Europe
Now let me get this straight, Europe is on the path to chaos and civil war because Europe is secular and likes to base its social policies on reason rather than a select groups perceptions of faith? and because we have large immigrant populations who 'can not integrate'
From the perspective on the other side of the pond, its the States which is looking far closer to civil war these days. There's differences of course within europe and serious issues too (I was on the tube july the 7th, so dont pretend your the only ones dealing with terrorism)

Europe is a mixed bag these days, the UK is doing very well thank you very much, from my immigrant friends in london I'd say the integration issue is actually a-ok, france is a different bag, but the french are a bit more rascist (e.g. theres aboslutly no black faces on tv, etc) Holland shouts alot about migration, but is in fact actually losing immigrants.
The issue with immigration and its impact is economic. Thats why people become disgruntled. When the politics of fear are constantly played out, people start getting increasingly stupid. I find it tends to be hillbilly's in small towns (we have them too) who are always the most terrified of immigration, while everyone who faces it day to day, see's it for what it is, just people trying to live their lives. Ever wonder why populous centres, with lots of immigrants tend to be more left wing?!

If the choice is red state conservatism, or european, rational secularism, ill stick with Europe anyday, regardless of how many dark faces your scared of are in the crowd.

utter drivel.

Vespanat
Well Vespanat, the Left is so Left that it is Ironic that they could even have a sense of humor. Who knows how to take people like that.
If a snake coiled up to strike at you, would you think that he was being sarcastic and pick it up any way?

The world is made worse
because Islam is spreading to every country. Spread by the sword and funded by petro-dollars.

America’s only hope is that it remain separate from this madness. We must stop Muslim immigration and keep America the last best hope of free men. Unless we want to go the way of France or the Netherlands, we must put an end to Islamic immigration now.

Loyal Democrat Against Free Speech
Loyal Democrat says: "some voices in the Right that are still allowed to speak. The ideas spewed by such voices is damaging to our cause, and they have to be stopped. Many Democrats are still hesitant to silence such dissent, and that is really sad."

I still have some Democratic friends (though sadly only a few at this point, as many have joined the unhinged world of Loyal Democrat.) Yet, there are still some who still believe in free speech unlike Loyal Democrat. Though I disagree with them with regards to our world view, God Bless them if they take a stand against others in their party like Loyal Democrat who would demand nothing less than tolitarian tactics against Conservatives like me.

Isaiah 45:22
Sorry I don't quite understand your logic there what with left left's and coiled snakes, it must be my lack of a sense of humour. Kudos to my countryman gforce1 from the apparently godless hellhole that is Blighty.

Loyal Democrat
Do you really believe all of that Marxist balderdash your have written? Dennis Prager has written a concise but dreadful picture of the world today, where freedom (civil, religious and economic) is more and more under fire. If freedom haters ever win, and they will no doubt win, the world's future will simply be dreadful. Hopefully we are coming to the end of times, as Dennis has stated.

Vespanat
I was simply saying that who know when someone from the left is being sarcastic. You stated that Loyal Democrat was being humorous to the benefit of Conservatives. Well, the Left has always used hidden tactics to get what they want. Look at what happened in this last election. They portrayed themselves to be something they are not. Oh, you do have a sense of humor. :-0

Cheryl F
They take their lead from Bubba and Hitlary.

"We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." [Hillary Clinton, 1993]


"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans ..." [President Bill Clinton, 'USA Today' March 11, 1993: Page 2A]

"You know the one thing that's wrong with this country? Everyone gets a chance to have their fair say." President William Clinton addressing the people of Philadelphia, May 28, 1993 in the Courtyard, City Hall, Philadelphia, PA

Nothing like Liberal hatred for the First and Second Amendments.

With the Second in force, it prevents them from banning the First. Small wonder that they are dying to ban AM talk radio. As scAir America goes bankrupt, it pizzes the left off. America AIN'T buying what they're selling, so how to fix that? BAN freedom of speech.

be careful Limeys...
FDR4Rushmore was a Brit and he has been airbrushed from the Townhall history books...

Arab world not neatly divided
"The Arab world is largely divided between corrupt regimes and Islamic totalitarians who await the downfall of those regimes."

Correctly stated, the Islamic (not just Arab--you also need to include Iran and Pakistan; from 1996-2001 Afghanistan was also on this list) world has several CORRUPT ISLAMIC TOTALITARIAN (if this sounds like a contradiction, one need only look at the examples of Pakistan's Gen. Zia who misruled from 1977-1988 as well as the current ruler Musharraf) regimes--making the division much fuzzier.

Airbrushed
Blimey!! Airbrushed like the first 2 years of WW2 and Rumsfeld meeting Saddam!! What happened to 'the special relationship'!!

vespanat and gforce1
Please spare us the toxic mix of sophistry and nuance under the umbrella of elitism. Never mind. As usual, y’all across the pond are just too cute by half. Feh. How many times does the US Military have to rescue you from such stupidity?

Irony
As my ex told me "Take ALL the radicals out and shoot them!"

Vespanat, we not all so "thick"
(to use British slang) as to miss Loyal Democrat's irony.

Anyway, I think Prager states the situation well. As for this battle between Americans who hold the values of Western Europe and those who remain true to its founding principles, that's over and the former have won. The remaining battle will be between the Liberals and the Muslims. Truthfully, I don't think the Left sees the Muslims as much of a problem -- especially the Muslims in their midst. The Left elite is willing to tolerate the occasional Muslim terrorist attack. They think the bigger enemy right now is that pesky Democracy thing.

The only fly in their ointment is
a possible nuclear terrorist attack which might lead to a Right-wing coup, here. But, they'd still have Europe from which to recover the U.S.

gforce1
I laugh at you Eurotrash.

From your high taxes, to your pathetic forced health care, The Dole, doctors that drink on duty, Hooligans, rising violent crime, Rampant Unemployment, 6.00 a gallon gas, street riots, CCTV's on every street corner, and now your government is testing directional microphones to be better able to listen in out their subjects.

Keep Eurabia pal. I'll take the good ol USA every time. Next time you have a problem from the East, call 800-Frenchy.

gforce1
Population studies are a sticky thing.

A native population that is reproducing at a rate of 1.2 child per household does not stand a chance of maintaining its hegemony over an immigrant population that is reproducing at more than twice that rate. Eventually, civil war or not, the personality of that nation will change to that of the immigrant.

I chuckle at "the UK is doing very well these days, thank you very much".

The end may be near
When evil is called good, and hatred captures the heart, the end is near. Our only hope is found in the Bible. Read John 3:16.

The reason the Left isn't worried about
the ever-growing number of Muslims in their midsts is because they expect to have de-democratized the governments to such an extent that they will, in effect, be Liberal oligarchies. You won't be allowed into the halls of power unless you have well-established secular humanist values.

America has a choice. I hope they choose
God. We cannot continue to allow Islam, Secularlism, atheists, and agnostics decide our moral path. Oh, in case you think I am trying to, We will not save the world.
I believe the Bible, which makes it crystal clear. The world is sinful and will continue to get worse. Like the days before Noah, the people do not even acknowledge their sin. They no longer have a conscience. They are of a reprobate mind. I know that there are good Christians out there that pray for our president, military, political leaders, and our country daily. That may stave off the end but, will not change it. God knows that the Devil is roaming about the earth "as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour". This is why we have apostasy in churches, and have mega-church ministers caught in sexual immorality.
Dennis just tells it like it is.
It sounds like our British friends across the pond are in a state of denial. There are far too many radical muslims in Europe and they will not be able to stop all of the attacks. There are sleeper-cells in the USA as well. We are in for more terrorist attacks. The Bible warns of this and it tells Christians to "Watch and Pray." We must keep our lamps trimmed and full of oil. This means always be ready for the Rapture of the Church. It means we better be doing what is right until the end. If we get lax and start behaving like the rest of the world, what will happen when Jesus returns?
We will be left behind with them.
I also do not believe the Baptist Doctrine that Once a person states "I accept Jesus as my personal savior" that they are always saved from then on, no matter what. "Be not deceived, God is not mocked." God will judge righteously. His Holy standard is unattainable by any human. The only thing that gives us hope as Christians, is the Mercy and Grace of God.
We must work daily to do our best to not sin. When we sin, we must ask God for forgiveness.
Of course we cannot earn Salvation, it is the gift of God. However it is not said in vain that "we strive toward the mark," and "work out our Salvation with fear and trembling." I do not take salvation for granted because anyone is subject to backsliding. A backslidden Christian is no better than any other sinner. For that matter, I am no better than any sinner. I have just decided to accept the Salvation of God through the the Blood of Jesus Christ. That is my only hope for Heaven. Without the hope for a better life after this one, the future is dismal indeed.

Now Now Chaps
Come on fellas. Lets not get personal. While I'm on though, you can keep your school shootings, presidents 'personally informed' by God, 2 weeks vacation a year, enforced vacuity of the media (be it "liberal" or otherwise), exclusionary healthcare system, corporate dictatorship masquerading as democracy etc.
You have got great food, some great bands and I do love the Simpsons though!!!


dismal outlook
...but it seems to me, very realistic. I'm sure China and Russia are more than happy to make deals with the devil, as is probably about half the U.S. When the rational, reasoned Euros have given their free will over to the rule of shari'a, and the wishy-washy gov't that's left here sides with everyone else against Israel, then we can have a final solution that will work for all people: a Benevolent Dictatorship with Absolute Power and the ability to act instantly against any kind of resistance. I'm looking forward to that, quite frankly.

Che Guevara in the USA
Che Guevara pictures are not only at Hezbollah rallies in Lebanon. Most the illegal alien rallies in Los Angeles had Che Guevara pictures/images at the rally. Che Guevara right here in the good old USA. Che Guevara T-shirts quite common as a hero to many of the "immigrant" community here in the USA.

Ask Borat
Borat is optimistic about America. He says, "I like you...HIGH FIVE"! And reading "Loyal Democrat" is a little bit like watching Borat, and it's even funnier that he even calls himself "Loyal Democrat". Good Times.

Mr. Prager,
an education moment.

Your use of Judeo-Christian term needs elaboration.

Christians were expelled from the Judiac community in the first century because of unresolved differences. They became different cultures.

It is those differences that are conviently ignore when using the juxtaposed term Judeo-Christian. The Christian community can't ignore these differences. The Jews community definitly won't.

You say saving face is more important than truth in the middle east. Similar things can be said about other cultures. The motives maybe different for differnt cultures but the outcome is the same, truth is cast aside.

During this Christmas season, as challenge; dig beyond the Judeo-Christian values postulate to a deeper foundation.

Merry Christmass

And Another Thing
This whole "we saved your a*sses twice" thing is getting a little old. In the first Gulf adventure your boys managed to kill more of ours than the Iraqi's and regarding the most recent outing you got us involved in we have managed to share and therefore deflect from you some of the shame incurred by the whole debacle.

Judeo-Christian
JimP misses the point. Christians were expelled from the Judaic community because the latter rejected the new covenant, just as the prophets of the "old covenant" predicted. The Jewish Messiah, Yeshua, received a much warmer response from the "Gentiles" than He did from his own people.

To Vespanat and the other Brits
I am not bashing you, or Britain. What I am saying is that you cannot deny that Islam is becoming a huge part of the overall population.
The Qu'ran tells Muslims that the only good infidel is a dead one, so in effect, they have two choices. To convert us, or kill us. I fully believe that the entire world is at risk. Other countries bash Americans because of our Judeo- Christian Values. Why don't they bash Arab nations that are actual Theocracies? Because of Fear! They are afraid of radical islam but not Christians. Why? Because Christians to not blow up skyscrapers to spread their faith. Christians do not strap bombs onto their bodies or to their children to kill infidels.

Fiddler
You missed the point by your fiddeling.

loyal democrat
SEVERAL REPLIES BACK TO "LOYAL DEMOCRAT "
HAVE BEEN MADE. LET ME SUMMARIZE : "LOYAL
DEMOCRAT " IS FULL OF RHINO DUMO .

fiddler (Judeo-Christian)
Yes, He came unto His own and His own recieved Him not.

TAP001
The Muslim population of Britain is still relatively small - well under 5 per cent, as it is across mainland Europe. I think the doomsday predictions about Europe becoming Muslim, and Britain in particular, are fanciful - at least in the short term. Longer term, it certainly could become a much bigger issue. However most British Muslims want to integrate and want to play a full part in life. A peaceful and prosperous life. Of course there are bad eggs, but they are a tiny minority within a minority. Those bad eggs develope in exactly the same way as they do elsewhere, through disenchantment with mainstream culture, through poverty and unemployment and religious or political extremism. Much like Timothy McVeigh.
This demonisation of an entire faith is nonsense and is exactly what the Nazis played upon to arouse hatred of Jews. There seems to be little desire to believe that not all muslims want us all dead - I don't believe for a minute that they do. In fact on the contrary, the overwhelming desire seems to be to believe that they are all out to kill us. To be honest, if that is the case they're doing a pretty bad job of it. Perhaps if the religious leaders of the Weest were more inclined to dialogue with the religious leaders of Islam, rather than demonising the entire religion, there might be more chance of ending the horrible situation the world currently finds itself in.

Religiosity of the President
I find it dismaying when liberals attack the President for being guided by his beliefs. All that means is that he believes that someone is watching him so he'd better do his best. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT?

vespanat
you wrote: "regarding the most recent outing you got us involved in we have managed to share and therefore deflect from you some of the shame incurred by the whole debacle."

We got YOU involved in? Sooooo, you're saying that Britain does what we tell you to do?

BTW, the LAST outing that YOU got US involved in cost the USA approximately 300,000 KIA (ETO), twice that wounded, and about 3 TRILLION Dollars (1945 dollars that is).

Yeah, you STILL OWE US.

CT Tom
I don't think using religion as a guide is necessarily a bad thing - it's when GWB says things like "God told me..." that gets people cringing. Like told him to run for President or to invade Iraq.

The Blokes have it right...
...at least when they speak of Loyal Democrat.Vespanat nails it when he describes LD as simply marshalling all the Left's arguments and presenting them for comment.LD gets a charge out of the comments he recieves and you can be sure he is reading this right now and laughing.I have counted upwards of 11 comments on this thread of his work,and that is his purpose.Works everytime.

PS:Anyone who likes the Simpsons can't be all bad!

Critical Bill and CT Tom
Amen. Prager overemphasized a situation and created a huge scare tactic out of it. This happens all the time.

To CT Tom:
Bush declared that God told him to invade Iraq. Besides this being extremely demented, it is what set the stage for the Bush admin to ignore ALL PROFESSIONAL outside advice. And why not- if God told you do something, all these other people are just wrong. But, it was Bush that was wrong. And now, the Middle East is destabilized. It will take us decades to fix it.

And now, as Bush once again ignores all reasonable advice, he is about to escalate the war in Iraq. Brute force without any indication of understanding what he is doing. There will be more death, more destruction, more instability, and nothing gained.

All because God told him to?

I don’t have a problem when a person has faith- except for extremism which is found in all religions. I do have a problem when they think god speaks to them in such definitive terms.

You right wing cowards did it again!
I see many responses to Loyal Democrat but, lo and behold, no post by Loyal Democrat. It appears that, once again, someone on this website has flagged a post simply because they disagree with it. This has happened to me several times. Whoever is doing this is a coward and a fascist who wants to keep themselves and others on this site sheltered in a bubble of right-wing talking points. Shame on you. And shame on Townhall for allowing such frivolous censorship. You bring shame to the very concept of a Townhall.

Phylo out.


On the upside
On the upside, its comforting to know in these challenging times, we have Nancy Pelosi, Jon Carry, Hillary Clinton, Saint Obama and Ted F@!#ing Kennedy in charge.

On second thought, Western Europe is looking like a viable alternative- someplace very quiet, away from the socialists.

Phylo
Maybe LD is just trolling this morning and has no intention of answering?

To- GunnyG writes:
You do understand that America got involved in WWII well after it started. In all, around 30 Million dies, 200,000 of which were American. Yes, we helped end that war. Hitler was on his last stand, and when we showed up, it made him topple. But to suggest that Britton or Europe in general owes us is vastly overstated. Hitler had planned to come for us next. We fought to prevent that- we fought for ourselves as much as to help Europe. We also let Britton waver for a few years while we ‘contemplated’ joining the war.

Yes, this is a very brief summary. But to clamor about that England owes us, or lend to that Europe at a whole was not involved in that war is simply wrong.

Matt, Esq. writes:

[On the upside, its comforting to know in these challenging times, we have Nancy Pelosi, Jon Carry, Hillary Clinton, Saint Obama and Ted F@!#ing Kennedy in charge. ]

Well, look at the accomplishments of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, Richard Pearle, et al. Can you spell failure? How about incompetence? Corrupt?

Let’s not even mention the fraud, waste, and abuse of the last 12 years in congress. [Yea, molest pages, cover it up, and then have the ethics committee claim no rules broken, no one to punish.] Please.

Honestly, we have no where to go but up from here.




God Talks to Bush
Can someone provide a link (other than to a left-wing blog) where GW said God told him something? I think he may have said he asked God. In secular terms this means he was meditating on the question.

TAP001
The alleged 9/11 perpetrators were drinkers and womenizers, hardly promoters of fundamental Islam.

And bombing Fallujah civilians with napalm hardly qualifies as Judeo-Christian values...at least for rational people.

Better to leave God out of the mix and concentrate on real world issues.

ISAIAH 45:22
WHAT DOES ISAIAH 45:22 SAY?
IS IT " THE SCEPTER SHALL NOT
DEPART FROM JUDAH UNTIL SHILOH COMES" ?
OR " EBER,PELEG,REU " ?

Gunny...
...The brits didn't get us involved in WW2,the Japanese did.Up until Dec 6,1941,Americans overwhelmingly opposed any foriegn wars.They still couldn't get over WW1.That changed overnight on Dec 7.We declared war on Japan,not Germany.Hitler declared war on us in support of his ally,Japan.

The Euorpeans had been fighting the war for over two years before we entered.And our casualties for the whole war was 255,000 dead,world wide.As individual Americans,we preferred the Allies win the war,but we didn't want to get involved.

We didn't go over to Britain to help the British but to get at Germany,and Great Britain was the largest aircraft carrier and staging area in the world.

We did not conduct D-Day to liberate France,but to get to Germany.Can't get to Germany from the West by by-passing France.Yes,they were beneficiarys of our strategy,as was all Western Europe.But remember,we watched for two years while Europe self destructed,protected by our old friends the Atlantic and Pacific oceans.

ISAIAH 45:22
WHAT DOES ISAIAH 45:22 SAY?
IS IT " THE SCEPTER SHALL NOT
DEPART FROM JUDAH UNTIL SHILOH COMES" ?
OR " EBER,PELEG,REU " ?

CT Tom
The BBC reports that Bush used that exact phrase during a meeting with Middle east diplomats during a meeting in 2003. Regardless of what many Towhallers think of the BBC, it isn't a "left wing blog"...

Ben...
...I posted after you did because I didn't see your post beforehand,but we made the same points.

And Bipsy,LD never answers,but you can be sure he is reading the replies.

Dennis Prager, Mr. Happy
Hey, Mr. Happy, I notice that the one group in the world that escaped criticism is the right wing of America and it's "leader" George Bush.

The reason things are going to h*ll all over the world is because we have a leadership vacuum in America. George Bush was never qualified for this job. He has the mentality of a fifth grade boy. And it is his primarily his utter lack of leadership skills that is making other countries believe that the United States is no longer a country to be feared or respected. No one wants to follow us anymore. They see us as more of a force for bad than for good. They see us a greedy hedonistic bullies. And because we've lost the moral high-ground, naturally the rest of the world is starting to think about new answers to humanity's timeless problems. And they're starting to search for new leaders too. The United States used to be the answer. Bush (with the help of Prager, Medved, Bennet and Hewitt) has ruined that.

And don't tell me this was happening well before Bush. President Clinton is still adored in almost every country in the world. You people will probably argue that people hated us in the eighties too. But look at the public opinion polls; most people used to admire and respect us, now most people loath and fear us.

But of course Mr. Happy is too stricken by his ideological myopia to see that Bush and the conservatives have had anything to do with the current problems in the world. For Mr. Happy, all of the problems in the world are caused by everyone but he and his compatriots. In his mind, "We American conservatives, we are the only truly good people in the world. Everyone else is morally confused and evil."

The only hope I can see right now is Barack Obama. Elect Barack Obama to the presidency and see how fast America regains it's credibility.

I predict that, if he is elected,America will quickly regain it's credibility around the world, and that, in fifteen or twenty years, we'll all look back on 2000-2008 as the dark ages of American politics.

Phylo out.


Nam65-66 writes:
Hey, nothing wrong with a little support. Your added details were good.


Bush talks to God
I think if President Bush had said that God spoke to him we would have heard about it from the American media for at least 6 months. Since that didn't happen I guess you remember incorrectly.
Imagine the reaction if a Republican president was accused of rape long ago. The media would still be screaming about it.

The British
I love the british. I used to do alot of business with the Brits. I love their beer, alot of their food, their culture, their cities, their people. Love em.

The British socialist posting on these boards is, hopefully, not representative of what Britain is becoming.

*This whole "we saved your a*sses twice" thing is getting a little old. *

Yes, well it may be old but it doesn't make it any less true. And I'm pretty sure friendly fire in Iraq doesn't eliminate the whole "we came to your aid and bailed your butt out in WW2" thing. I recognize your generation (I assume you're in your 20's) will NEVER recognize nor appreciate the precarious position Great Britain was in prior to the US entry into WWII nor the sacrifices the AMerican people made to come to the aid of the Brits. But we did it and you are free to say whatever ridiculous thing that strikes your fancy on these boards (and in english rather than german) because we did so.

On the upside, you're not French, who pretty much owe anyone with a backbone.

Prager is being his usual pompous idiot
Once again Prager misses so much in his "holier than thou" attitude. Much of the problem in the world has been caused by the worst president in the history of the United States - he who must not be named. Total incompetence! And we told you all he'd be this way back in 2000. But no, you right wing ideologues wouldn't listen. Now the world is in a mess, much of it due to our president being a man totally out of his league and totally separated from reality.

Matt, Esp
I think the Brits would be speaking Russian not German. The Russkies would not have stopped at Berlin if American and British forces weren't there to meet them. We can speculate until we're blue in the face over WWII. Brits do, on the whole, recognise that WWII would have turned out very differently without American troops and money, but let's not kid ourselves - America entered the war because of its own national interests, not because it wanted to turn up like superman and become the hero that saved the free world...

Sorry Matt
that should be esquire not especially...

I agree
[Phylo Se Fizer writes: Tuesday, December, 19, 2006 10:31 AM
Dennis Prager, Mr. Happy]

The neo-conservative agenda is a failed policy. It basically stats that American, because it has a big military, has an inherent right to invade other cultures and change them to how we see fit. If the world were made of robots this philosophy could possibly work. But, as the world is created now, Iraq is what we get.

Yes, the incompetence of the Bush Admin in carrying out the policy was a crucial short fall too. It seems that for eve decision to be made, they made the wrong ones. At the root of those wrong decision was a complete lack of understanding of our country- the leadership role that we used to have. In addition, there was a complete lack of respect for out own government and the system we live in.

Our foreign policy has been irrational. We ignore major problems in Africa (problems that if we addressed we MIGHT be able to show some of our “Christian Values.”) We supported attempted coups in Venezuela. Beating our allies throughout Europe with threats. We buy off half cocked dictators in Pakistan that now are under suspicion for helping the Taliban.

Our leadership role in the world is significantly diminished. Threats, bribes, and brute force is not a policy. And yes, they are the reasons the world is turning on us. It ‘s the reason people like Dennis Prager see the whole world as evil and guilty, yet never look at themselves to see the real problem.

Phylo is right. G. Bush was never qualified to be president. He is not a leader. His policies have exasperated the problems in the Middle East, and they leave us less prepared to fight the real war on terrorism.




Who saved a*sses?
The hypothetical question of who saved Britain's a*ss in WW2 is just that - hypothetical.

It remains to be seen if the Germans would have been able to successfully mount an invasion of the islands with the same type odf success they had on the mainland. Regardless, the Germans found themselves bogged down in Russia, creating and receiving levels of casualties that effectively weakened the German ability to wage offensive war against Britain other than sending rockets into London.

So, if any entity should be credited with saving Britain's a*ss in the war, it would be Hitler for being arrogant enough to make war on two fronts, and the Russians, who, unlike France, were willing to fight to the last man to preserve their homeland.

Phylo ...
*He has the mentality of a fifth grade boy.*

And you wonder why people don't take your seriously here. If you want to analyze the failings of George Bush, of which there are quite a few, your best bet is to stop the "Bush is a moron" and "Bush is the dark lord" memmes because neither adds anything to a healthy debate about the failings of our president.

Also, phylo, who would you consider the greater enemy ? The american right and Bush or the islamofacists and the president of Iran?

Dear Brit who thinks he's so smart
I know you think we're all backwater hicks, but frankly we seem to have the facts on our side. Of course you turn the whole thing into a race issue, that's just a reflex. But if things are so swell in the UK, how come the head of M15 came out to say that they are tracking 30 terrorist plots? How come she went on to say that they are observing THOUSANDS of terror suspects living in England? How come every few months there's a new terror plot uncovered in Spain, Germany, France, even in Prague of all places. Wow, immigration has just been a huge success in Europe hasn't it? Well, I know there are no problems from the Hindus, and the Chinese and the Asians and the Eastern Europeans.... But there's one group who HATES YOU no matter how much welfare you shower upon them. And not all of them, of course, but enough them. And why is the BNP, a party that believes in racial purity of the white man, becoming more and more popular in your country? Could it be that people like you and the political establishment are so out of touch with reality that people are turning to depraved racist parties all over Europe?
Oh and what about the incitement of Genocide in Iran and Genocide in Sudan and Russia doing all it can to dispose its military arsenal among the worlds crackpot dictators. How is America to blame for that? I guess I'm too stupid to understand, afterall I'm not European...

phylo is right...
whoever is flagging the lefties' posts and getting them deleted is annoying. I look forward to seeing Kimberly and Phylo's daily rants... they may be nuts, but they do provide a good laugh.

Bill
*America entered the war because of its own national interests, not because it wanted to turn up like superman and become the hero that saved the free world... *

I agree completely. America doesn't do what it does because it wants to save the world, it does what it does because its the most powerful global actor on the world stage, meaning we're a big fat target to anybody with a grudge, monetarily, politically, religiously, whatever. Our "neo-con" agenda, from my perspective, has been about either changing or eliminating the growing Islamic threat. Doing nothing will put us at considerable risk.

I just wish democrats would flesh out their viewpoints on how do deal with the growing crisis - and I wish they'd answer the simple question, "what will talking to Iran accomplish".



Matt, Esq
While I agree that name calling doesn't add much to the debate, there is no shortage of the same from the right. Hllary Clinton never gets called names does she? Nancy Pelosi? Barack Obama has been referred to as "the anti-christ" by plenty of right wingers and Townhallers. And didn't Rush once call Chelsea Clinton "the White House dog"? Or words to that effect... it ain't an exclusively liberal issue.

How revealing, Matt
you want only the Democrats to answer your simple question,

"what will talking to Iran accomplish".

Why not James Baker? Or Robert Gates?

snipehunter
Isaiah 45:22 (NIV) says:

"Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other."

Guess you looked up a different verse.

response to Matt esq
Matt esq. "Also, phylo, who would you consider the greater enemy ? The american right and Bush or the islamofacists and the president of Iran?"

Phylo: Iran is the greater enemy of the United States but Bush has done more damage to the United States. No outside power could've weakened our country as much as Bush has.

Phylo out.

Ben and Pancho
Both right about Germany and WW II.

Hitler never really wanted war with America. Even he recognized America's industrial power could destroy him. His generals certainly did.

When Japan attacked at Pearl Harbor, I can imagine that Hitler screamed, "The Japs did WHAT??"

That attack really left Hitler with no option except to declare war on the USA and sealed his fate; that's the irony of Pearl Harbor: a Japanese victory that eventually destroyed the Third Reich.

The USA was, as a country, isolationist. We didn't want to get into that European brawl. We supported England and Russia with lend-lease and it's possible that they could have dealt with Hitler themselves after Germany lost the Battle of Britain.

The Japs were terrific fighters but strategic idiots. If they'd left the USA alone, we could possibly have skipped WW II.

We Had Our Chance

.....Prager...

....At the end of WWII America was in a position to influence and guide world events for centuries to come ...but Truman refused to accept the responsibility of being a Superpower and Leader of the Free World ...

....Our Historical Obituary might read...

.....America: "A noble experiment in a Democratic Republic founded by radical revolutionary intellectuals that prospered and grew into an industrial giant by the mid-twentieth century ...It's decline from power began with it's abdication of it's sovereignty to a World organization known as the United Nations circa 1945 ...through International Trade Treaties and Global Monetary Policies it was eventually absorbed into a Tri-Lateral State known as the North American Union ...toward the end of the New Millenium circa 2084 it came under the control of the newly established World Council headquartered in the Hague and vanished as a sovereign independent State" .....COLOSSUS

suirad
is right. The leftists have a right to speak out, too. Deleting their rants and sophistry-laden posts, no matter how annoying they are, is . . . unAmerican.

What Fun!!
Crikey, all this seems to have stirred quite a debate. For the record I'm not a socialist, pushing 40 and do appreciate what America did in WWII although other countries contributions do tend to be airbrushed in US history. Also Matt Esq. where is this good British food you've eaten? I'd love to know!!!
Anyway need to log off now, my working day has come to an end nice and early, no protestant work ethic here (there's secular socialism for you!!)
Hope to chat to you all soon again
Ta Ta

COLOSSUS
posted, " Truman refused to accept the responsibility of being a Superpower and Leader of the Free World ... "

Correct! Truman waffled mightily on whether we should abandon South Korea in June 1950. He authorized US troops initially because he felt the North Korean's (DPRK) invasion was merely a border raid. The US strategic planning at that time was not to fight for the peninsula.

The main focus at that time was gearing up free Europe for a big fight with the Soviets. Truman's advisors felt that Europe wouldn't be ready to confront the Soviets for 2 - 3 years.

In Korea, Truman was more concerned with getting rid of Gen. Doug MacArthur than winning the war. MacArthur intimidated the little haberdasher and Truman's humongous ego couldn't accept that. Eventually, MacArthur's public statements gave Truman sufficient reason to relieve him.

Truman fought the Korean War as a "limited" war and the JCS, State and the White House focus was "exit strategy", not victory. In the fall of 1950, all planning was how to exit the peninsula, not victory. (Sound familiar?)

Matt, Esq. writes: Tuesday, December, 19
Fleshing out the current crisis was being accomplished before Bush took office. It wasn’t what the neo-conservative movement wanted (invasion of Iraq), but it was being dealt with. First is the resolution with the Palestinian and Israel conflict. There was ample progress being made between these two nations under Clinton. The first time an Israeli and Palestinian leader shook hands, Bill Clinton was standing right there. There were no daily bombings. There were no weekly suicide bombers, and terrorism was a serious, yet minor threat.

Containing rouge regimes is a necessity. But, as we are learning now, it can’t be done with brute force alone. As our military weakens, the rouge regimes are emboldened. Iraq should have never been invaded. This took a vast amount of resources for little or no benefit- unless you consider 3000 troops dead and thousands critically wounded a good price for catching Saddam Hussein.

Create and follow policies that are mutually beneficial between us and other countries (mutually beneficial does not necessarily mean equally beneficial). We must prove to the Middle East that what we are doing- we are doing to benefit them. That message has not come across in the last 6 years.

Terrorism and terrorist have always been and will always be loosely associated groups of members that are fanatical in their causes. There causes are not always associated. Our policies should be designed around catching the terrorist while NOT pissing off the average Middle Eastern citizen. This cannot be accomplished by occupation- as we are now seeing. Cover action by the CIA/NSA etc, really is the only viable method to deal with terrorism.

Engaging Iran will be like engaging the old Russia. It has less to do with trying to reach an agreement with Iran, that it does with putting Iran on the spot in front of the whole world. It has everything to do with showing the whole world, and especially the Middle East, that America really does want what is best for their societies. Engaging Iran will help us- if done right- in winning the hearts and minds of the people of the Middle East. And, while doing it, we can box Iran into a corner. This is called diplomacy.

Old Law old story
While Prager's warmongering is nothing new, his oft-repeated lie that our nation was founded upon Judeo-Christian values has become such a laughable refrain, his credulity is fast approaching the hateful hysterics’ of Savage and Limbaugh. The 'small-government' bit is also, well would also, be quite amusing, if we did not have the largest police force and bureaucratically inept government that has ever existed; and we, the people, pay for their multitudinous laws and ever more powerful weaponry with which they keep the masses 'in line.'

Yet, Dennis's hypocrisy has become ever more apparent when he can demonize an American politician who utilizes his 'individual freedom' by wanting to use the Qur'an to swear upon in uttering his oath of office, and yet no such harsh criticism was leveled at Wasserman Schultz for insisting upon using the Tanakh, blatantly violating the sanctity of Holy Scripture by disregarding the New Covenant of our Savior Jesus Christ, at her swearing in . . .

and; as even Prager's insistence upon the death penalty is solely predicated upon the Old Law, his contemporary form of argumentation falls woefully short. "Killing murderers is society's only way to teach how terrible murder is," states Dennis, and yet, as murder is a crime none other can forgive except for the murdered, then by logical reasoning a society that condones murder is then a murderer; eye for an eye justice simply leaves both parties blind. The Old Law is dead; vengeance is G-d's alone, and no man-made political system has the moral authority to judge another human being worthy of death! If that was the case should not the entire American government be put to death for illegally being responsible for directly or indirectly causing the deaths’ of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

Disregarding Prager’s incorrect assertion that murderers get less time than thieves, or that the best way to prevent possible future murders is to murder (instead of just sending them to a penal colony like Australia, or by making the state of Montana a giant prison for murderers in which they can gainfully milk cows for no wage and provide an indispensable service for us all); Dennis eventually uses the example of an American justice system that failed in a very uncommon case as the sole reason why Americans who support our judicial system, as a slippery slope to Americans ensuring that ‘innocents will be killed.’

‘Our’ government has already established the Noahide law, unbeknownst to the general American populace, and without our consent, as American law; so what next? Are we going to start stoning adulterers? Are we going to put to death Jews who sleep with white women, running through with a sword all such ‘couples’? Are we going to chop off the hands of thieves?

Are ‘we’ going to use American taxpayer money to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem and sacrifice animals to atone for Jewish sin . . .

Aye, Prager’s agenda is quite plain . . .

Peace

Based on the propaganda posted,
there's no doubt that "Phylo Se Fizer" is the ghost of any or all of the fascists Marx, Stalin, Hitler, or the most infamous epileptic of all times - Mohamed.

Comments from an "Ugly American"
I remember the 80's when the term "Ugly American" was thrown about to describe the wealthy American who would travel to Europe and visit countries without having the common coutesy to learn their language or culture. They were criticized because they expected things to be presented to them in English, from menus to street signs. Thus, Europeans learned to love the tourist $$ but hate the American Arrogance. Today, however, look at the united states.

I do not understand people who leave their countries of origin and come to the US because we are the "Land of Opportunity" and yet cling to their respective "National Pride" and try to force us to respect their "culture".

If I had to leave my country of birth, and travel to another so that I could feed my family, I feel that I would find it impossible to be proud of my homeland. To me is would be a major dissapointment. The land that turned its back on me. The land that cared so little for me and mine that I had to go elsewhere to provide for my family. How can one be proud of that?

When immigrants drive around with their nation of origin's flag draped on their car it is the same as posting an advertisement for a mismanaged country. It is akin to saying "look what country couldn't provide a job for me and my family". Worse yet it screams "Guess where I am sending my money, most of which I pay no taxes on!"

Yet we are forced to embrace multiculturalism and "celebrate" every damned thing. "Celebrate diversity", "Celebrate your heritage" and the list goes on. It is they who are celebrating the diluting of our culture. Weakening our cultural fiber to better serve their interests.

Now we are seeing a movement for bilingual education. Are we really serious about this? Teaching children in American public schools in a language other than English? If we want to put the nail in the American coffin, this should do it.

There is no strength in diversity. Shout that from the rooftops. Anyone who tells you something different is pushing an Agenda. Diversity, by definition, divides. We are the "United States of America", not the "Diverse Grouping of Geograpgically Proximate Sub-Cultures".

I am very supportive of anyone who wants to better thier life by coming to this country. Do it legally and when you get here, embrace this culture and our way of doing things. It is what created the opportunity for you in the first place. Do not expect, or worse yet, try to force me to embrace your culture. If I wanted that, I would leave here and go to your country.

How can a people be so disadvantaged yet still so arrogant?

Totally accurate in every sense!
Dennis writes exactly my own sense of the present day world situation. I am pessimistic, which does not mean I am defeatist. The difference between now and past historical realities is in my view technology itself. Whereas in past decades the world was rather larger in the sense communication took longer to make its way to remote areas of the world, now every perceived grievance and hatred is transmitted almost immediately to large sectors of people in a controlled manner- (not unlike a 1984 Orwellian society). These regimes in the Arab world control what their citizens read and see to such an extent that lies are perpetuated from youth onward. The western world by contrast has been thoroughly infected by postmodernism in a manner I personally thought would never be possible. The idea that there is any right or wrong is anathama to many people in the good ol USA! I see looks of boredom and disbelief when talking to many people I know about the threats that face us and the lies and distortions that are fed the average individual on a daily basis. Most people view truth as boring, irrelevant or not affecting their lives in any way. Or they actually do what Dennis discribes, they believe the lies of those with evil intent toward us. Finally, I am not defeatist because I do know that truth cannot be ultimately defeated, that God is working through all this and that one day all will be put in order. However, man is a free agent in his or her choices and we can see a diminished value for truth and objectivity almost daily along with a self centered system that states what is most important is my personal pleasure- we reap what we sow. And right now we are reaping a whirlwind in the making.

DavidMac writes:
[Truman fought the Korean War as a "limited" war and the JCS, State and the White House focus was "exit strategy", not victory. In the fall of 1950, all planning was how to exit the peninsula, not victory. (Sound familiar?)]

No, it does not. I don’t' know about Truman waffling, the decisions to be made we delicate- to say the least. A full scale war may have ended with only one Korea- and not the one we wanted.

Anyway, the rest sounds reasonable enough, except for the exit or victory.

The Korean War was between two sides. There was a clear dividing point. A clear understanding of what victory was and what defeat meant.

In Iraq, there are no clear understandings of what Victory means. There are no lines to keep the enemy out of. Exiting does not mean defeat. Staying can not guarantee a victory.

We simply have failed the utopian goal of nation building. The saddest part of all of this is that it didn’t have to be this way. Even if you were against the invasion, the methods and means by which we invaded undermined our ability to win. From Shock and Awe, to torture, to secret renditions, to mass force against entire cities, to ill conceived plans for post war rebuilding- we have proved to the Iraqi people that we are not there to liberate them.

response to anti-socialist
Rather than just calling me names why not engage in a real debate. Pick out something I've said and show me where I'm wrong. It's much more interesting that way.

Phylo out.

P.S. So you know, not all people who hate Bush's policies are socialists.

When did Bush say......
that God told him to invade Iraq?? I must have missed that.

BigGmoney writes:
[There is no strength in diversity. Shout that from the rooftops. Anyone who tells you something different is pushing an Agenda. Diversity, by definition, divides. We are the "United States of America", not the "Diverse Grouping of Geograpgically Proximate Sub-Cultures".]



So, you speak Chippewa? Cherokee? And oh yes, I hate it when the individual cultures spout them selves aobut…every year here in Louisiana, we have the St. Patrick’s day parade…

Just go home….


Jslab
Go to google and type in "God told me" and "Bush". Heap plenty examples.

YES - IT'S OVER !
Look around you, Sheeple:
>The Little Kennedy brat shilling for Citgo/Cesar Chavez and cheap oil for the "poor."
>A bunch of DhimmicRats and halfwit RepubliCans traipsing to Cuba to seek and kiss the backsides of the Communists.
>ObamaMania - Madness about an individual with absolutely no credentials for ANY leadership position of ANY kind.
>Continuing screaming by the Professional Victims Club.

No . . .

The greatest country ever to be founded upon this earth will collapse within one year, not as originally thought within ten years. The Muslimes will not have the chance to do their head chopping. Putin will gleefully have his useful idiots such as the Kennedys and that bunch do his bidding as the middle east becomes a glass parking lot along with parts of Indonesia.

antiFlagging
It was strange to see answers to LD, but no LD. I thought maybe his name changed, or people were carrying a conversation over from a previous life.

Does anyone know how the flagging works? Is it automatic? By a certain number of flaggs? Does it key on obscene words? Could one person, clicking the "Flag as Offensive" delete a post? Could one person click a post ten times and delete a post?

I suspect Phylo has an important point for how posts are deleted at TH. But I'd be curious what the facts are. Anyone?





Goes to my point Ben.
European settlers did not learn (by and large) the native culture of this land and, instead, imposed their own. Now the native culture of this land exists mostly in history books. I can see it starting over again.

I did not participate in the original colonization of North America and if you can find a place in my post where I defended it, please enlighten me. That does not mean, however, that I must bear the guilt that you would wish me to bear and roll over to those who would take this land back (La Raza, etc.).

I stand by my post. And regarding St. Patrick's Day, I see no lobby of Irishmen trying to force Americans to embrace anything of Irish culture or change the way we educate our children or remove anything from our culture that they may perceive as Anti-Irish. You mostly see displays of Irish pride among Firefighters and police. Historically these jobs went to the Irish becase they were the most dangerous and teh view was that we could always spare a few Irish. Instead of complaining about it, the Irish did it well and now there are waiting lists in every metro area for people of all races who want that job.

No. I will not go home.

vespanat & gforce1
Since you feel qualified to comment on how America is run, why don't you tell us about some of the mysteries of how England is run?
Perhaps you might start by explaining the CRIME of burglary and the method Brits use to combat this crime.
And please explain the term "Hot Burglary" and tell us how much it has increased since all British have surrendered their firearms and thereby rendered themselves EASY VICTIMS!

Tell us about the laws to outlaw pionts on knives too!
AND I guess people dumb enough to pass laws like that will soon want to outlaw ROCKS!

America is a political mess right now and Dennis has painted a very accurate verbal picture of it. I doubt you can add anything other than further confusion. We have plenty of American Leftists. Granted they are not as silly as British Leftists but they try hard.

My China bit again
Dennis is right about the trillion dollars that China sits on. What do they do with that? Buy oil from Iran. Now, the really hard question. Where did they get that money from?

(Side note: Wal-Mart just opened its Communist Party Branch in China. Hey, anything for a buck, right?)

(Side note 2: The reason the British are having so much trouble with terrorists is that they have not lost against them like we have. Ossama had two objectives for 9/11. 1. Take away America's freedoms. Flown on an airplane lately and Crime is on the rise and our police are busy inspecting abandoned packages in malls and reading e-mails while the gangs gain power all over America? and 2. Ruin our economy. We financed the war in Afghanistan and Iraq by borrowing from China. China will finish that job in the next 10 years.)

Side note 3. Gotta like the censorship on this site. It is the American way, these days. Remember, watch what you say.

Oh, and
. . . and I liked Prager's unhappy Happy New Year. As usual, he gives us much to think about.

But there's more to the picture. Something like all that unseen 'dark matter' in the universe, there's a lot that goes on under the radar of politics:

Jesus is born; Joy to the world.

I Like Che Guevara T-Shirts
They remind me of how good our Special Forces snipers are.

Re-post LD's piece
Is this the way TownHall works now? We delete a post because we disagree with it? The Left always shouts about being "offended", and needing protection from it, and here we are doing the exact same thing. Yeah, that's real smart, complain about censorship from the Left, and then commit it ourselves.

Some of you need to get a sense of humor and recognize parody and satire for what it is. LD's posts are frightening examples of how many of those on the left think. What is now equally frightening is how some of us on the Right apparently think.

BigGmoney writes:
It was all in jest.

But really, think about it. The planet just hit 6 billion. The population is growing rapidly. Migration is going to happen if we outlaw it or not. People are going to want to come here to escape that (whatever that is). But, that, (which ever it is), is still their home. They will still be that and can still become good citizens here. This is one time we can have our cake and eat it too.

And, to recognize that in a thousand years, 500 hundred years, etc, that our country will change is not “I hate America” and want it to change. It is merely looking at the facts. List one country that has been here since the beginning of time? We are different now that at our founding. We will be different in a hundred years from now. It’s called life. The people in a hundred years may want to change the way the flag looks- and if enough want too- they will. Nothing we can do now to stop that. If they want to create this or ban that- they will do it.

But, I bet, they will be using the basic infrastructure of our system of government to do what ever it is they want to do.

That is what people don’t get. Our founders didn’t create a way of life and set it to stone. This is the way we will be forever more. They didn’t do that.
They created a system of government that would allow many different factions of people, no matter how different, to live in one country together as one. NOT ALL FOLLOWING THE EXACT SAME THING-what ever that thing is. Religion, political party, economic systems, health care, etc.

From many, we are one. That is what the founders created.


But really, think about it. The planet just hit 6 billion. the population is growing rapidly.

hyphenated Americans?
Mr. Prager is on the mark. The subject of my post is also one of my pet peeves. If geneology defines my Americanism then I cannot be 100% American. I can respect my ancestors and family or ethnic traditions passing along history to my children and grandchildren without recognition from all my fellow Americans. I am just an American, raised to love my country, to respect the sacrifces of Americans before me and understand that personal freedom and liberty are uniquely American, that I am privileged to live here.

The further away we get from the founding of our nation the less privileged Americans feel because they think their personal freedom is free. Privilege without sacrifce becomes meaningless. If we think things look bleak now, wait until the next generation takes charge.

My biggest frustration is knowing that my personal freedom is under the control of people whose allegience is only to themselves and what they can get out of their positions, whether it be political capital, power over the people who they see as mere pawns who are dispensable, just collateral damage in what they consider the big picture and last but not least, their personal wealth.

Then we have those who contantly decry the inefficiency and corruption in all levels of government but turn right around and expect that same inefficiency and corruption to take care of all their needs and make everyone the same.

Sorry for the long post, I could go on and on and so could most of you. I wish all of you a very Merry Christmas, no offense intended.

DavidMac
What Truman did was worse than you can immagine!
I was in China at the time and have 1st hand knowledge.

The Communist Army NEVER won any battles!
Soldiers did not even understand the politics they fought for because they fought for MONEY!
You would need to see the poverty to believe it!

Russia provided the Communists with enough money to raise a soldiers wages to 13 CENTS per month and a brothal token. (Yes I am serious!)
Truman cut off funding to Chang and all of his soldiers hired out to the Communists.

What that means is Truman could have BOUGHT the Chinese revolution outright for about $ million and there would have been NO Korean war, NO Vietnam war, NO cold war or any other kind of wars because with China as an Ally, no nation would be in a big rush to start a fight with either of us!
All of the suffering & death from those wars you can lay at Trumans feet!

Poverty in China has changed but I would bet the political situation is still the same!
See what you get for pushing my "Hot Button"?

Is that you Ben?
Different tone in your post. It's appreciated.

I agree that immigration will happen. I want it to happen...legally. It is through immigration that America came to be (not just colonization). There are a vast number of immigrants, however, who have no interest in becoming American. Their agenda is to take all they can from this country and leave. Worse yet, change it. To make it more friendly to their people. The change they want does not come from a love for this country but rather a love of their originating country and a desire to make this country more "insert nationality-friendly" or less-American.

I will not sit back to see that happen. Immigration must happen on our terms. In our time, and by our numbers. To roll over and say "it's going to happen anyway" serves no purpose. It is to surrender.

Our country will change over time. As stewards of this country and to ensure it's longevity, it is our job to ensure that the change is positive and in the interest of this country and those who love it. We will not survive if our goal is to make happy the invading hoards.

MyOpine
LOL!

I'm STILL waiitng on an explanation of Britain's evolution into an Orwellian and the total embrace of it by the British subjects.

CCTV's on every corner and the Queen testing out directional microphones as well. They already have anti-free speech laws. Guns are confiscated and violent crime is skyrocketing. Taxation is rampant. Their dental health care is GREAT bar none!

Yep, a real paradise there.

D*MN glad I live in the USA!

Not all Chiang's soldiers
abandoned him. He still had enough to enslave the native Taiwanese(Formosa in those days).

popularity
Phylo, since when is popularity proof that something is good? You say, blah, blah, blah, people liked us...

People liked Hitler too. People liked Clinton. People are sheep.

And you think OBAMA has the qualifications to be PRESIDENT????

Lets see, this is his FIRST year as Senator, you do know that, right? And he's very young. How in the world can he possibly have gained enough experience to be president?

Oh yeah, that's right, he's POPULAR. And he has a nice smile. Guess that's all the qualifications sheep ask for.



Ben
*Well, look at the accomplishments of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, Richard Pearle, et al. Can you spell failure? How about incompetence? Corrupt? *

This is not fact, this is your opinion. Failure ? What does that mean ? Who decides what is a failure ? You ? Incompetence ? Who makes that decision? You ? Corrupt ? I think you're thinking of Congress, where's there's plenty of blame on both sides of aisle.

We liberated two countries from tyrants, with minimal loss of life. There has been no additional attacks on the United States. There have been hundreds of terror suspects captured around the world. Al Queda's "leadership" has been almost completely decimated and they no longer can move and plan attacks with impunity. The country has programs in place to react to terrorist attacks, be they biological or nuclear or whatever. Airport security, while still sucking, has improved significantly. Our profiling is keeping potential terrorists off plans. From a national security standpoint, there's been sweeping successes.

Also, the economy is doing extremely well, unemployment is low, my taxes went down and this is despite the cost of the Iraq war.

Bush is not perfect- he's a terrible communicator. Iraq is very problematic but my opinion is thats its not because we went there, its because we didn't lay down the law to the Iraqis when we got there. One of this biggest failings though, is concerning himself with the opinions of people who constantly compare him to Hitler and believe the administration is worse than the people who wake up each morning thinking about new ways to kill Americans. Bush is not your enemy, he's a thorn in your side, but he's NOT your enemy.

We'll see what Pelosi et al does once they take over. I doubt I'm the only one who said pre2006 elections, "they have no plan". I still see no plans but they'll get their shot.

Wrong Pancho!
Hitler did not start a "two front war". After he gained control of Continental Europe and had essentially isolated Britain, Hitler began construction of his "Fortress Europe". He did not expect, nor anticipate, a "Western Front" when he attacked the Soviet Union in June of 1941. What Hitler did not count on was the Soviet influence in high places in the US Government and in the Empire of Japan. The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was engineered by US Soviet operatives in order to precipitate open hostilities between the Japanese and the USA. This strategy was to protect the Soviet Unions Eastern flank with the US Military from the Japanese. Since Germany and Japan were allies (of a sort) the state of war that then ensued because Germany declared war upon the USA ,after the USA declared war on Japan, thereby ended American neutrality and precipitated what would then become a "Western Front" by June of 1944. It was Stalin who was fighting a two front war with the Germans by using Soviet troops in the West and against the Japanese by using American troops in the East. Your admiration of the Russians is misplaced, unless it's for their dupliciity.

As for the British and the American claim that we "Saved their bacon", you should have known the WWII RAF veterans I have known. They all do, to their enduring credit, admit as much. However, the honor of giving Hitler his first defeat and in inspiring America to back the Brits, until Germany declared war on the USA, belongs to the British military and civilians that fought the "Battle of Britain". It was indeed, their "Finest Hour".

Keep your ignorant opinion to yourself for 60 minutes today and you too can claim a worthy hour.

THE RWANDAN TEMPLATE, GOOD GERMANS ETC.
THE FIFTH COLUMN WITHIN ANY NATION IS GOING TO BE EFFECTIVE TO THE EXTENT THAT IT MATCHES THE RWANDAN TEMPLATE OR THE NAZI TEMPLATE OR THE TURKISH (ARMENIAN) TEMPLATE. ITS ALWAYS THE SAME.

IN RWANDA, IT WAS ONLY ONE IN FORTY HUTUS THAT ACTUALLY WORKED IN THE MASSACRE TEAMS. THE MASSACRES WERE NOT SPONTANEOUS. THE INFRASTRUCTURE HAD TO BE BUILT AND THE TEAMS HAD TO BE ARMED. THE HUTUS HAD TO BE TOLD OVER A PERIOD OF YEARS WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN AND WHY. EVERY POGROM, MASSACRE, NEEDS FORESHADOWING. THE MEIN KOMPF WAS ESSENTIAL TO THE SUBSEQUENT ACTIVITIES OF THE SS TROOPS. ALSO WHAT THE PEOPLE SLAUGHTERING GROUPS UNDERSTAND IS THAT NO MATTER WHAT THEY TELL THEIR OWN TROOPS AND SYMPATHIZERS, THEY CAN TELL THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY THE EXACT OPPOSITE. THEY CAN TELL THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY THAT THEY ONLY WANT PEACE. AND THEY ARE ALMOST ALWAYS BELIEVED BECAUSE WE TEND BELIEVE WHAT CAUSES US THE LEAST DISCOMFORT AND INCONVENIENCE ON THE DAY THAT WE HEAR IT.

INTIMIDATION OF THE GOOD GERMANS IS ESSENTIAL. HUTUS WERE INFORMED THAT IF THEY DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN KILLING THEIR NEIGHBORS, THEY WOULD BE KILLED. AND MANY HUTUS WERE KILLED.
OTHERS HELPED THE TEAMS BY INFORMING AS TO THE HIDING LOCATIONS OF THE TUTSIS (MOSTLY OLDER PEOPLE, WOMEN AND CHILDREN).

GERMANS, WHO INFORMED ON THEIR JEWISH NEIGHBORS, OR GYPSY NEIGHBORS, OR JEHOVAH WITNESS NEIGHBORS, DID NOT GET THEIR HANDS BLOODIED. ONE DAY THEIR KIDS WERE PLAYING WITH JEWISH KIDS (TUTSI) KIDS, THE NEXT DAY THE GOOD GERMANS WERE FINGERING THE MOTHERS AND KIDS FOR THE DEATH SQUADS. PRIOR TO BETRAYING THEIR "FRIENDS" THESE PEOPLE WERE PROBABLY CALLED MODERATES.

ALL OF THE ABOVE IS DISTILLED FROM WIKIPEDIA. AFTER AN HOUR OR TWO ANYONE WITH ANY SENSE CAN SEE WHERE WE ARE GOING.

IT’S LIKE A BAD DREAM AS WE SLIDE INTO THE INVEVITABLE. THOSE WHO DO NOT LEARN FROM HISTORY....


Matt, Esq.
GREAT POST!

Libsquirts everywhere are reading it and scratching their gourds and saying: "Huh?" and "What does he mean?" and "Can I get Red Nancy to break it down Barney-style for me?"

Me Again
We are not quite the Orwellian nightmare you portray. Although things are moving that way I'm not sure our library records can be accessed as yet. Having lived and worked in both the UK and the US (admittedly in Taxachusetts) I honestly dont think we pay that much more tax when taking healthcare into account.
I'm not too aware of many curbs on free speech to be honest either, even the verminous BNP were acquitted (rightly in my opinion) of spreading their filth. The only ones to fall afoul of free speech laws are the insane Islamists which I would have thought you bunch would applaud

Ben Part Deux
*There was ample progress being made between these two nations under Clinton. The first time an Israeli and Palestinian leader shook hands.*

Huh ? You are claiming Clinton solved the Palestinian problem and Bush screwed it up ? The Palestinians were offered sweeping concessions (I believe the agreement gave them 96% of what they wanted) and they didn’t take it. If anything, that’s a Clinton failing. Also, just for giggles, you may want to consider Madellyn Albrights role in helping Mr. Ill acquire nuclear weapons. Clinton was a domestic policy guy- his foreign policy was Carter-esqe in its complete ineffectiveness. When you see North Korea with the nuclear bomb, you realize how incredibly ineffective he was.

*But, as we are learning now, it can’t be done with brute force alone.

How exactly have we *only* used brute force? This is a complete fallacy. We helped Iraq build a democracy, decide on a Constitution and vote on election day for a candidate of their choice. We did not force them to go to the polls, they went because they wanted a taste of freedom. We've built schools, hospitals, etc in Iraq. None of that is brute force. How much do you see THAT aspect of our "invasion" on the news ? Do you agree that we've done that? And if so, where's the credit for it ?

*As our military weakens, the rouge regimes are emboldened.*

Our military is not weakening. Liberal democrats are weakening our military. If you undermine the military’s mission, at home or abroad, whether you believe in it or not, you’re weakening our military. I thought Clinton's Bosnian efforts were a joke and completely disagree with him that we should send troops there- and yet I supported the troops and the decision, as did many republicans, because Clinton made a decision and our troops had no choice but to go. And I should point out that Osama Bin Laden cited the US’s failure to successful prosecute the war in Bosnia and Mogadishu as his proof of “american weakness”. And who was the president during this time ?

*unless you consider 3000 troops dead and thousands critically wounded a good price for catching Saddam Hussein. *

I do. I very much do. I’ll take 3000 dead troops and a chance at democracy over watching a homicidal madman and his homicidal sons massacre ethnic groups over tribal differences all the while thumbing his mustache at UN sanctions and shooting at our planes in the no fly zone. Of course, it was not just about catching Sadaam Hussein but you know that, don’t you. If you don’t, then you haven’t really paid attention.

*Create and follow policies that are mutually beneficial between us and other countries*

Ah, this phrase represents the complete flaw in your argument. Most of the countries in the world BENEFIT when the United States loses. Mutually beneficial means trade. We have that. If anything, the trade between the US and the middle east is what keeps us from really taking a more proactive approach to the region. If I wanted to shut down Islamic terrorism in the middle east, I'd start bombing their oil fields.

*We must prove to the Middle East that what we are doing- we are doing to benefit them. That message has not come across in the last 6 years.*

Other than allow the annilation of Israel, what would you suggest ? Also, I should point out that much of the middle east hates the United States and wants us dead. If saving a huge group of Muslims from a homicidal tryant and helping them achieve freedom in the middle east DOESN’T constitute showing them what we’re doing to benefit them, then the middle east is looking at things all wrong. Plus, get this straight- we’re NEVER going to do something JUST to benefit the middle east- it must benefit the United States. We’re the most powerful nation in the world, we are not a charity. Whoever the president is, he's trying to protect you and your children and he doesn't get the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

*Our policies should be designed around catching the terrorist while NOT pissing off the average Middle Eastern citizen. This cannot be accomplished by occupation- as we are now seeing.

*The average Arab is already pissed off, because he’s living in horrendous conditions, many time in poverty, typically oppressed by both a dictator and theology and all he hears from all the media available to him how the United States hates him, his family, Allah and Islam and the only way to deal with America is to attack it.

*Cover action by the CIA/NSA etc, really is the only viable method to deal with terrorism.*
You do realize that most of the specialty teams dealing with terrorism are military, not CIA/NSA. I mean, honestly, if you don’t know that, you shouldn’t even be commenting on our counter-terrorism programs. The CIA may get the intelligence but you've been watching too many movies if you think they're the ones that act on that intelligence. I do think you should understand how these things work before you go back to the failed Clintonian notion of "its a law enforcement problem". Also, if you haven't noticed, the CIA has gotten just about everything wrong its predicted in the last, oh I don't know, 15 years so you'll forgive me if I don't want the CIA as the sole barrier between the Islamofacists and my children.

*It has everything to do with showing the whole world, and especially the Middle East, that America really does want what is best for their societies.*
We want what’s best for our society. Everyone else takes second place. If we can help others while helping ourselves, great but our primary goal is and should be, the safety and prosperity of the United States. Many many many countries believe (with good reason) that a more prosperous US is bad for them and act in their own interests. The US should do the same. We're not responsible for the whole world, we're responsible for what WE as a country do and thats it.

*Engaging Iran will help us*
Pretty tough to engage in talks with a known state sponsor of terrorism who constantly talks about commiting genocide on race of people in one country. Thank you, no, my talking with my enemies should done at the barrel of a bayonet or a smart bomb. The Islamic world recognizes power and not much else.

snipehunter
What? Isaiah 45:22 reads, "Turn to me and be saved,all the ends of the earth!For I am God, and there is no other."

Clinton Foreign Policy
How can anyone criticise Clintons foreign policy while defending Bushes!?! As someone has stated earlier Clinton was/is pretty much respected around the world (intern shenanigans aside). Bush is seen as a laughing stock. I really don't think Americans appreciate the damage he has done to their countries international standing. I really believe the US is about to begin its descent from its pinnacle as the worlds main suerpower. It's a shame as it could be such a great power for good too. Ironic it will have started under Bushes watch.
By the way one major foreign policy success of Clinton's that canno tbe denied is his assistance in the Irish peace process.

BigGmoney writes:
Hey, it is appreciated by both sides. But to mention, my tone usually is dependant on the ones I am in communication with. The last time I was on here, I was called a baby killer, idiot, evil, etc. I usually start with a sarcastic joke but will eventually slam the one person that pushes it too far.

Today, very few have been insulting one another- and that is appreciated.

I don’t believer that most immigrants really have an agenda other than their personal benefit. But, I do agree that all immigration should be legal and I have a few more suggestions to go along with it. First though, is what if the system we currently have is just dysfunctional? If the Spanish for Central and South America try to do it legally, but know it will never happen- then they will come anyway. So, first, make sure we have a functional system that will be able to handle the circumstances. After that system is created, then put out the word, come over any other way will be cause for 1) border patrol to use whatever force necessary to stop you 2) what ever legal means to prevent you from ever coming back- including life in prison. The benefit here would be two fold- one, the majority of immigrants that truly just want to come over to do better for their families will have a means and it will be understood that all other means will be considered either drug smugglers or terrorist.

The rhetoric concerning immigrants is reaching ridiculous proportions. That they want to take us over, change us, or that they really just hate us, etc. It’s all hyperbole. Worse yet is that by immigrating that we tell them they have to be something that we cannot readily define. Yes, learn the language (but that does not mean we should not learn other languages), live by our rules, laws, traditions, but do they have to give up their identities? I would argue not. Not only is it wrong to ask, but it is bad for all of us. Other cultures are fascinating. And they can blend in with us, be part of us, and still maintain their true identity.

Defining what America is is not an easy task. We cannot even agree between the major political parties what it is. It truly is different for each person. Me- my admiration is the founding, religious freedom, for the first time in history- the people are the government and we rejected the notion that Kings are ordained by God. Or that the masses are mere cattle for the ordained to use. Benjamin Franklin’s description that we are the last great hope for the world. What America is- is different from what a political party portrays.

Lately, we have not been living up to that standard. And, when I speak out against G. Bush for failing to live up to that standard- I am defending my country. Some of the things this admin has done is just beneath us. The tactics used provided no benefit but cost us dearly in our overall objectives. [yes, I know- a change of topic]

BDS and B.S.
Yawn...so LD got himself axed again.
So what?
I've had my comments deleted every time I've ever posted on KOS or the Huffpost, usually before it gets a response, so it comes as little suprise that Bush Derangement Syndrone sufferers
get the occasional boot.
Just exactly how many different ways can you blame President Bush for the world's problems anyway? To victims of BDS, it's an open-ended string which provides limitless opportunities to slam the white house.
I'm far more inclined to believe that most of America's foriegn policy problems stem from the BDS infected democrats and their policy of backstabbing, kneecapping, and inversion of fact which produces the stagnation of our society and it's governance.
Rather than working together to fix what's wrong with our country, the left insists that we're going the wrong way, no matter what the issue is.
In 2004, MTV had a get out the vote campaign that stated -and I quote: "Vote Or Die!"
Yet the goulish spectre of the draft didn't seriously manifest itself until the democrats won in '06, and now suddenly it's getting serious consideration by the very people who were elected to prevent it from happening.
No sense of irony here?
Not to mention that the reason it was brought up had nothing to do with winning, but to scare the republicans away from ever voting for war again, even though democrats voted for it too.
Lefties MUST be allowed to have it both ways, or their logic falls on it's face over and over again.
Well, that's too bad.
Personally I have no problem with phylo and his (for the most part) drive-by posting; it gives me a better grasp of the scope of the problem we grownups have to face.
It's possible that LD did a drive-by like the rest of the won't-ever-change zealots on the left, but as you can see, this isn't a right wing bubble, or spewing phylo would have been evicted long long ago.

Clinton ?
ves, its pretty simple. Popular doesnn't mean effective. In fact, in international diplomacu and negotiation, popular means the other guy got a great deal 9 times out of 10. CLinton gave nuclear know how to the North Koreans, completely botched the "wars" he attempted to fight and did very little to fight terrorism in the middle east (I mean really, how do you miss that a terrorist organization is controlling an entire country and do nothing). And assistance in the Irish peace process ? What the hell are you talking about. Thank god he solved that problem for the british, since the Irish weren't exactly a threat to the US. How did peace in Northern Ireland help US interests ?

And this is a newsflsh- the US will be hated no matter what we do. We're the haves, they're the have nots. Bush merely provided a target for folks overseas with a grudge and folks domestically who fall for the victimization and global village BS. Its much easier to demonize something when you have particular personality or entity to hate.

Second newsflash- the country is usually on the ropes and doing nothing proactive when a democrat is president. If you want to look for a reason why the middle east is so convinced they can beat us, look no further than Jimmy Carter and his approach to diplomacy. I shudder to think what this world would look like without the 8 years of Ronald Reagan, I really do.

vespanat
Currently there are TEN public cameras for every ONE person in London and now the Brits are fielding MICROPHONES to eavesdrop on the public at large!

"The microphones can detect conversations 100 yards away and record aggressive exchanges before they become violent. The devices are used at 300 sites in Holland and police, councils and transport officials in London have shown an interest in installing them before the 2012 Olympics. The interest in the equipment comes amid growing concern that Britain is becoming a “surveillance society”. It was recently highlighted that there are more than 4.2m CCTV cameras, with the average person being filmed more than 300 times a day. The addition of microphones would take surveillance into uncharted territory." (The Sunday Times, 26 Nov 06)


The Brits are examining the same system that they Dutch have in place.

In Holland more than 300 of the cameras have been fitted in Groningen, Utrecht and Rotterdam. Locations include city centres, benefit offices, jails, and even T-Mobile shops. The sensitivity of the microphones is adjusted to suit the situation. Police and local council officials are still assessing their impact on crime, although in an initial six-week trial in Groningen last year the cameras raised 70 genuine alarms, resulting in four arrests.

Not quite Orwellian? Really.

Matt, Esq.
I'll have to get back to you.. Kind of long and I am kind of busy.
it will be today though.

Decline is Not Simple
Determining when a civilization is in decline is really difficult. For participants, it is especially hard to recognize. The fact America is split so many ways and lacks any kind of clear consensus reflects divisions and weakness. Our enemies have not overlooked this.

Sure,things look bad in the world from our point of view. Naturally,we hear from pessimists. Actually, a dangerous world has been the norm for most of history. Relatively peaceful periods dominated by one country such as America are not the norms of history. One could say the world is retreating towards it's previous norms.

America has built it's economic empire upon oil. America started having economic problems as far back as 1973, when foreign oil become the dominant source for the world. When oil was relatively cheaper, as in most of the 90's, America did pretty good. Now that oil is expensive, America is again experiencing problems and greater uncertainty. Expensive oil empowers radical governments who possess most of the world's known reserves. Many of them dislike us.

We have to learn to realize that no country remains top dog forever. We can accept this reality or ignore it. Meanwhile, we should try to enjoy life.It is still much better here than most places (Africa, S.America,China,Russia,SE Asia)

Isaiah 45:22
WOW!! I'm so glad I used my Favorite OT Scripture as my Screen Name. I love the attention that it brings to God. :-)

Clinton
I will concede that in some quarters the US will be hated no matter what, however you must concede that this has gotten a great deal worse under Bush. Regarding Clintons wars, I seem to remember that Clintons Balkan adventure went rather well (despite the Repubs attempts to sabotage it). A "cakewalk" in comparison to Bushes little sojourn into Iraq.
If you thought that Carters presidency led the Middle East to suspect you were somewhat less potent than they thought what do you think they think after the latest disaster? The real winner in all this is the scary chap leading Iran whose name escapes me. Bush has been a dream for the radical Islamists.
On the Irish subject, it was nice for the US to help sort it out even if there was no threat to them if only for the fact that the IRA were funded primarily by Americans with deluded romantic visions of the 'cause'.

We know Clinton
up close and so do not have the respect for him as president that foreigners have. As for the Irish situation, the time had come after many years of conflict and he was in the right place at the right time. How about his going in to Serbia without approval of congress and a declaration of war? Free lancing don't you think? Clinton is a very intelligent man who likes to talk, is undisciplined in his thinking (as well as his sexual habits)and without people around him to discipline him, cannot see the forest for the trees. Going around the world, he has all kinds of ideas about how things should be done. But in all, he is just a talker.
By the way, Pres Bush has never said that God talks to him and gives him advise. He has clearly said that he talks to God for comfort and strength. To the secular Europeans, this certainly is peculiar.

vespanat
You still need to tell us how swiftly British Police come to the scene of a BURGLARY?
Or explain why they do NOT EVEN RESPOND to burglary any more!
Or how many times a burglar must be caught before he will be prosecuted and how likely he is to be caught when police do not respond to burglary any more?

There are many things you can tell American that will actually help us.

WHY DON'T YOU TELL US ABOUT ALL THE STUPID THINGS THE BRITISH DO THAT FAILED SO BADLY?
We have Democrats here who want to try the same dumb things that have already failed in England!
You have much to teach us.
American Liberals will be surprised to learn what a disasterous crime epidemic you caused with your draconion anti-gun laws.
YOU ALSO HAVE MUCH TO LEARN HERE but it is unlikely you will learn much while expressing you ignorance of American politics.

Barbarians Inside The Gate:
Barbarians Inside The Gate: David Duke and Kiryas Joel Satmars
Tuesday, December 19, 2006 11:33 AM



For a brief moment, the media flashed pictures of David Duke and the Satmars with Kiryas Joel ties embracing Iranian President Ahmadinejad.


Why did they not place pictures of our dead heroes coming home in American Flag draped coffins or the wounded with missing limbs in the same article?


Why did they not speak about the heroism of the Israeli men and women that daily face a hostile enemy bent on their total annihilation?


While our courageous American men and women, including those of the Jewish faith, serve with great honor and sacrifice in Iraq and Afghanistan, this generations Jane Fonda’s embrace the architects of terrorism and death at a conference in Iran.


Funny thing about terrorism, it hides in the shadows of darkness especially State Sponsored Terrorism. It also has many faces and does not need explosives to accomplish its agenda.


You see long ago the state and federal government conceded the Orange County, New York communities of Blooming Grove, Harriman, Monroe, and Woodbury to Kiryas Joel. Your tax money has gone into the establishment and continues to fuel the uncontrolled high density - urban sprawl of the religious community known as Kiryas Joel at the expense of the surrounding communities.


You do not have to go to Iran or Syria to witness state sponsored terrorism, just visit Kiryas Joel and the neighboring communities under siege.

Hated ?
*however you must concede that this has gotten a great deal worse under Bush. *

I'll concede that. Any president who says "if you're not with us, you're against us" is going to rub people the wrong way. I think the difference between you and me (other than the accent) is I don't care what the United Nations et al thinks of the United States because a person's opinion does nothing to benefit us. We're too worried about what other countries think- we should care what our allies think and spit on our enemies. But many many of our allies have decided that its more profitable to deal with the oil cartels and make themselves rich (French, Germans, Russians). Bush was demonized by liberals in the US and it was picked up overseas. Do I think our relationships with France, Germany, Spain etc have gotten worse since Bush became president- yes. At the same time, those relationships have been going down hill for years, pre-bush, as its all about the money for europe- they'll climb in bed with Iran or whomever for some solid coin. As old europe decays, it looks for someone to blame- the United States, an opposite to the socialistic policies in Europe, is the perfect foil.

*I seem to remember that Clintons Balkan adventure went rather well (despite the Repubs attempts to sabotage it). *

The Balkans "adventure" was a success ? How so ? What US interests were served in the Balkans ? Sending a military force over for completely charitable reasons is not what I consider a success. Clinton seemed to only want to fight wars that a. wouldn't affect him politically and b. wouldn't benefit the United States. And yet, NOW when democracy has been established in a muslim country that was previously a sworn enemy of the United States, liberals claim there is no reason to be in Iraq because its not in our interest. Do you see the double standard ?

*If you thought that Carters presidency led the Middle East to suspect you were somewhat less potent than they thought what do you think they think after the latest disaster? *

First, it showed the Islamic world and our enemies that when pushed, we would act. I can't tell you how impressive it was that we overthrew two brutal governments in such a short period of time. What does t hat mean ? If we decide not to nation build, we're still as significant threat. If Iran nukes Israel, one thing it does know is that the US can and will depose its regimes if pushed. Its strength vs. weakness and weakness is what they saw in Carter- its pretty well documented the way arab attitudes changed after Carter- they saw the US as vulnerable.

*The real winner in all this is the scary chap leading Iran whose name escapes me. Bush has been a dream for the radical Islamists. *

As has the liberal left. When your own people are demonizing a president and making false ridiculous claims ("he's as bad as hitler"), there isn't much you can do to fix that other than ask those people to quiet down, which of course they dont do. Anti-Americanism has been the real dream for Islamists.

*On the Irish subject, it was nice for the US to help sort it out even if there was no threat to them if only for the fact that the IRA were funded primarily by Americans with deluded romantic visions of the 'cause'.*

Well, look chief it was the Irish doing the fighting, not the americans. It was an Irish/British problem, not an American problem and quite honestly, there was no benefit to the American people. I'd much rather he focus on people who are threatening me rather than threatening each other. As a second generation Irish immigrant, I was thrilled with the potential cessation of violence in Northern Ireland but again, if that is Clinton's best moment from a negotiation/foreign policy standpoint, its pretty pathetic in light of the sheer number of attacks which occured on his watch by Islamic terrorists.

My Apologies MyOpine
Sorry for not replying earlier. I don't see any correlation between our "draconian" gun laws and burglary. We have never had widespread firearm ownership here. The current laws were brought in due to a scumbag paedophile maniac shooting up a school, something you lot have good experience of. Not a bad bit of legislation in my book. Don't believe all the NRA tell you.
The increase in burglary in Blighty has come about for a variety of reasons. It started under the 'reign' of your countries one time favourite Brit Margaret Thatcher. Her economic policies, rightly or wrongly led to the growth of the underclass in this country and the use of hard drugs such as heroin became a great deal more prevalent during her time.
The late great Bill Hicks (one of your greatest exports) had some quite interesting insights on our countries respective gun laws. You might want to look him up.

loco writes: Tuesday, December, 19, 2006

I don’t think you do understand or know Clinton. After 70 million spent upon investigation that found no wrongdoing after investigation that proved no wrong doing, the impeachment was about a consensual sexual affair. No abuse of power, of office, or criminal activity. There were no business deals that were not scrutinized. There were no investments that were not studied. There were NO CRIMES FOUND. And, that is why the spectacle of Monica Lewinsky had to be portrayed throughout the media.

As for the Irish, a year after Bush took office that dispute started back up. An, no, I am not blaming bush for their dispute- but a lack of world leadership did play a role in it flaming back up. When we act like leaders- others do follow us.

The war in Kosovo was a complete success. And, you cannot have it both ways. On the one hand you want to accuse the dems of bowing down to the U.N., then you want to accuse Clinton of going it alone when the U.N. was going to veto any action in Kosovo (Please be objective). The republicans were against Kosovo because there were no national interest there to make it worth our while. Yet, the same one who preach Christian values don’t see the worth in preventing genocide?

The world respected us under Clinton because we lived up to our standards. We were leaders. We engaged the world, we led the world in peace as in with our enemies. Again, you cannot have it both ways. Clinton went after Bin Laden only to have the republicans accuse him of ‘waging the tail’ or some stupid thing like that. They received the same intelligence as he did- they know what was going on, and they chose to politicize it for their benefit- the benefit of party politics. The same is true when Clinton attacked Iraq. He, in conjunction with the UN, gave Saddam an ultimatum, when he Saddam didn’t listen- Clinton gave the order. Case closed.

What Clinton didn’t do was go on a wild goose chase throughout the world- barking orders and making threats.

And: Someone mentioned the N. Korea deal under Clinton. That deal attained full control over the use of nuclear facilities. It was not until Bush took office and cancelled the exports of oil to N. Korea that the N. Koreans kicked out the UN. That is not Clinton’s fault. But, what about the nuclear deal with India? How is this deal different?

Matt, Esq.
Matt, Esq. writes: Tuesday, December, 19, 2006 2:49 PM
Hated ?
*however you must concede that this has gotten a great deal worse under Bush. *

[I'll concede that. Any president who says "if you're not with us, you're against us" is going to rub people the wrong way. I think the difference between you and me (other than the accent) is I don't care what the United Nations et al thinks of the United States because a person's opinion does nothing to benefit us. We're too worried about what other countries think- we should care what our allies think and spit on our enemies. But many many of our allies have decided that its more profitable to deal with the oil cartels and make themselves rich (French, Germans, Russians). Bush was demonized by liberals in the US and it was picked up overseas. Do I think our relationships with France, Germany, Spain etc have gotten worse since Bush became president- yes. At the same time, those relationships have been going down hill for years, pre-bush, as its all about the money for europe- they'll climb in bed with Iran or whomever for some solid coin. As old europe decays, it looks for someone to blame- the United States, an opposite to the socialistic policies in Europe, is the perfect foil. ]

Two things:
1) we are spitting on our allies and emboldening our enemies.
2) Ever heard of Halliburton????????????????




About the Brits
For those folks piling on the Brits, don't do so simply because a one Brit is expressing an opinion. The british have been our allies and I expect will continue to be the one ally we can rely on. I know many many brits who recognize the necessity to fight islamofacism and many many brits who understand the growing islamic threat in their country. Eventually, GB will elect another prime minister who I believe will clean house. Great Britain is not as far gone as say France or Germany in terms of its descent into socialism.

Just wow... Where is this democracy?????
*I seem to remember that Clintons Balkan adventure went rather well (despite the Repubs attempts to sabotage it). *

The Balkans "adventure" was a success ? How so ? What US interests were served in the Balkans ? Sending a military force over for completely charitable reasons is not what I consider a success. Clinton seemed to only want to fight wars that a. wouldn't affect him politically and b. wouldn't benefit the United States. And yet, NOW when democracy has been established in a muslim country that was previously a sworn enemy of the United States, liberals claim there is no reason to be in Iraq because its not in our interest. Do you see the double standard ?

Sigh
Ben-

Two things:
1) we are spitting on our allies and emboldening our enemies.

Who are our allies that we are spitting on? Perhaps you and I have a different definition of ally. Just because a country is not trying to kill us does not make them our ally. Would you consider France our ally ?

2) Ever heard of Halliburton????????????????

What does Halliburton have to do with anything in my post? And please PLEASE do not completely utterly discredit yourself by referring to a vast conspiracy perpetuated by GW Bush to enrich his Haliburton buddies- trust me, if it was the case, the NYT/WaPO/LAtimes would spend years talking about it. The entire Haliburton "issue" was a way for the nutroots/anti-capitalists to attack Bush and it was a big fat red herring. For those of you who bought into it, shame on you.

Way out there now.
Matt, Esq. writes:*
[As has the liberal left. When your own people are demonizing a president and making false ridiculous claims ("he's as bad as hitler"), there isn't much you can do to fix that other than ask those people to quiet down, which of course they dont do. Anti-Americanism has been the real dream for Islamists.]
======================================================================================================================================================

Um, wasn't Bill the devil? He was evil incarnate? All liberals hate America…blah blah blah…And now:


Now, you want to take the most far left liberals ranting and apply them to all criticism of Bush? So, blind allegiance is what you demand for me to be a good citizen? Look what your blind allegiance has done. The Middle East is completely destabilized. No one is suggesting we are better off now than before. Bush took a small yet serious problem and blew it up to huge proportions. Every expert, except for a few this admin found to dispute the only logical path for us- the Baker / Hamilton report, is in agreement that Iraq is in civil war.

Nation building once again failed. And, it is not the liberals fault for talking about it. Bush sidelined every person that spoke out- and in hind sight- most of them were right or closer to right than this admin (financial predictions). If, by chance, they would have listened to all the concerns- we would not be where we are today.


It gets back to Bush’s ability to lead. And, he has no ability to lead- that is where the threats, bullying, and brute force without a plan come from. Leaders don’t need to resort to such ignorant tactics.

Ben
Ever hear of LOGCAP?

LOGCAP is the Logistics Civil Augmentation Program created by the United States Army. It is a program that uses a competitive bidding process to award a contract to a corporation to be on call to provide whatever services the Army might need...right then. Some genius in the Army came to the conclusion that it might not be such a swell idea to screw around with competitive bidding processes for logistics and other services during wartime. D*MN GOOD IDEA!

Halliburton won the competitive bidding process for LOGCAP in 1992. They then lost that bidding process five years later in 1997. In spite of the fact that Halliburton no longer held the LOGCAP contract, Bill Clinton went ahead and awarded a no-bid contract to Halliburton to do some work in the Balkans supporting U.S. peacekeeping actions.

Oops, a NO-BID contract. Hmm. Odd.

You might also be interested in knowing that Al Gore was quite a fan of Halliburton. Gore's reinventing government panel had some very complimentary things to say about Halliburton and the services it provides to the U.S. government.

D*AMN those pesky FACTS just keep cropping up!

Jump to 2001. Bidding time on the LOGCAP contract again. Halliburton is right in there, and wins the bid. This means that at the time of the Iraq War Halliburton had the bid for providing logistical and other services to the U.S. government. They were the go-to company. So, along comes the U.S. Army with a fat contract for Halliburton to put out oil-well fires in Iraq and all h*ll breaks loose.

To the left this is all the proof you needed to show that this whole war was about oil and enriching Bush pals.

Recap: Clinton awards no-bid contract to Halliburton at a time when Halliburton did not hold the LOGCAP contract. Bush awards contract to Halliburton at a time when Halliburton DID hold the LOGCAP contract.

See the problem here or do I need to type sloooooooooooooooweeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrr?


More responses to Ben
*There were NO CRIMES FOUND*

And yet Clinton was brought up on impeachment charges AND he was disbarred in Arkansas. I hate to tell you this sir but a state bar does not disbar you when it finds no wrongdoing. It may be "questionable" in your mind but it wasn't in Arkansas. Plus, I'll point out how many of the people accused of being involved with Clinton's "crimes" are now deceased. Michael Moore should look into that.

*The republicans were against Kosovo because there were no national interest there to make it worth our while. Yet, the same one who preach Christian values don’t see the worth in preventing genocide? *

So you're admitting that a. Kosovo served no American interests and b. that genocide is a viable reason for invading a country and deposing a government? First, how could you possibly support a decision to go to war when doing so in no way serves American interests? And second, if genocide is sufficient, then our invasion of Iraq was justified, as its undisputed that Sadaam was commiting genocide in the north as well as murdering thousands of his own people. While you're patting Clinton on the back for Kosovo, please explain in detail what he was doing to make our country and our overseas interests safe from the threat of Islamic terrorists. And again, please adddress the role the CLinton government played in North Korea acquiring nukes. You have to address the good with the bad, before you declare Clinton some kind of foreign policy genius.

*Clinton went after Bin Laden only to have the republicans accuse him of ‘waging the tail’ or some stupid thing like that*

No sir. They accused him of the wag the dog issue when he bombed an asprin factory right about the time the impeacement vote was comning about. The only thing he did in terms of Bin Laden was failed to pull the trigger when the man was in plain sight. Again, you MUST take the bad with the good if you expect to win an argument that Clinton was good for american foreign policy.

*He, in conjunction with the UN, gave Saddam an ultimatum, when he Saddam didn’t listen- Clinton gave the order. Case closed. *

Man, you really have your head up your but if you think clinton did anything to significantly engage Sadaam Hussein. I'm really baffled you can possibly think this. Not to mention, if you recall, Bill was firmly convinced that Iraq was developing WMD's and thought they were a huge threat- he's said that much- and what did he do about it ? Nothing.

*Someone mentioned the N. Korea deal under Clinton. That deal attained full control over the use of nuclear facilities. It was not until Bush took office and cancelled the exports of oil to N. Korea that the N. Koreans kicked out the UN.*

You must be joking. OMG, you must be joking. WE GAVE HIM THE MATERIALS UNDER CLINTON AND HE USED THOSE MATERIALS TO MAKE A NUCLEAR BOMB. What did we get out of the deal ? Nothing. And somehow, thats Bush's fault. If Clinton doesn't give Kim Jong Ill the materials, does he make a bomb ? Can you answer that question honestly ?

Ok Ben, I've tried to be rational and fair with you but if you can't even admit the worst clinton policy failure during his 8 years, you are not worth the time I'm taking to debate with you.

haha
2) Ever heard of Halliburton????????????????

What does Halliburton have to do with anything in my post? And please PLEASE do not completely utterly discredit yourself by referring to a vast conspiracy perpetuated by GW Bush to enrich his Haliburton buddies- trust me, if it was the case, the NYT/WaPO/LAtimes would spend years talking about it. The entire Haliburton "issue" was a way for the nutroots/anti-capitalists to attack Bush and it was a big fat red herring. For those of you who bought into it, shame on you.

==============================================
Yes, no bid contracts, ending accounting practices, and turning a blind eye to the extremely numerous accounts of fraud will discredit me…….haha.
The number of accounts of fraud committed by Halliburton is well documented. Hell, even their own internal auditor went to Iraq to prove it wasn’t happening and came back screaming about it the loudest.(and she was prior Army- so I suspect her loyalties were to the soldiers deployed). And, NOT TO MENTION THAT CHENEY HAS PERSONALLY GAINED OVER 300 MILLION IN INCREASE IN STOCK VALUE. Now, with a straight face, tell me you would have been okay with Clinton doing that?

And then you say: [The entire Haliburton "issue" was a way for the nutroots/anti-capitalists to attack Bush and it was a big fat red herring.]

Test time: How does no-bid contracts uphold capitalist values?

And anyway, that is not what I was talking about. I was talking about while Cheney was CO of Halliburton; it used their French subsidiaries to breech the American sanctions against Iraq. I guess just opportunism? And, no, it was not illegal. France does not have to follow our sanctions- but what about Cheney??????????????????????

MyOpine
From my research (I was in Korea 12 years after the cease-fire), I learned that Nationalist guerillas were fighting the ChiComs on mainland China.

Chiang (in Formosa) offered to provide the United Nations with 30,000 tropps to fight the ChiComs in Korea. MacArthur also wanted those additional troops, but Truman felt that moving those Nationalist units to the peninsula would would leave Formosa (Taiwan) vulnerable to invasion. Truman's whole mind-set was to extricate the US from the war, not to defeat the Reds.

Did Truman withhold funds from the Nationalist guerillas on the mainland? The Democrats in the US Congress were, even then, against fighting communism.

Got me--Matt, Esq.



I should have stipulated between impeachable and petty. Did Clinton abuse the office? That is what impeachment is about. I don’t care if he was trying to contain the fact that he had an affair- none of my business.

How did he use the office of the presidency to hurt us or help himself and endanger us---- he didn’t.

What has happened to our media?
How often have you watched an interview on television and were embarassed by the reporters or interviewers seemingly idiotic questions? Dave Gregory has this effect on me often.

The questions they put forth are generally rhetorical and they don't listen for a response because while the interviewee is trying to answer the nonsensical question, the interviewer or questioner is thinking of his or her next ridiculous question.

These people are not trying to gain insight or information, they are attempting to preach their slanted views and often are trying to embarass the interviewee. While trying to make the interviewee appear stupid, they instead come across as idiots.

Today's journalists and reporters are merely sensation seekers who live to get "the big story". They lie, concoct, twist, rake muck, and are an embarassment to the profession. They are rude and have no respect for anyone regardless of their status: president, senator, congressman, foreign ruler, prime minister, king, queen, it matters not. They ask a fifteen minute highly complicated question, and expect an immediate response while they are continuously interrupting. Christopher Hitchens was great when at the end of an interview he was thrown a loaded question by the interviewer. He merely said, "No. I'm not going to even attempt a question like that at the end of an interview. I will gladly answer at the beginning of another interview, but not now. More interviewees should follow this practice.

Ben
posted, "the N. Korea deal under Clinton. That deal attained full control over the use of nuclear facilities. It was not until Bush took office and cancelled the exports of oil to N. Korea that the N. Koreans kicked out the UN. "

The US learned that North Korea was continuing their efforts toward nuclear weapons in the 1990's and therefor withdrew from the agreement.
You have it backwards.

It wasn't Bush, it was North Korea that violated the agreement.

Matt, Esq. writes:
[So you're admitting that a. Kosovo served no American interests and b. that genocide is a viable reason for invading a country and deposing a government? First, how could you possibly support a decision to go to war when doing so in no way serves American interests? And second, if genocide is sufficient, then our invasion of Iraq was justified, as its undisputed that Sadaam was commiting genocide in the north as well as murdering thousands of his own people. While you're patting Clinton on the back for Kosovo, please explain in detail what he was doing to make our country and our overseas interests safe from the threat of Islamic terrorists. And again, please adddress the role the CLinton government played in North Korea acquiring nukes. You have to address the good with the bad, before you declare Clinton some kind of foreign policy genius.]



Must we play semantics all day? Invading Iraq was a stupid idea even without the concept of it being a preventative war. First, you are wrong that it is documented that Saddam was committing genocide prior to our invasion. He was a dictator, he was a bad man, but the event you were speaking of happened prior to the Gulf War. And, while using chemical weapons- while he was our ally- it was hardly genocide. The kurds have attacked Turkey (our ally), Iran, and Iraq. I don’t’ know much about them, but if they are going to go around attacking people, they should expect retaliation.

Maintaining peace is an American interest. But, how can I justify going to war without them- if the people we are defending ask us, they need it, and we do it for the right reasons. Yes, I can justify that.
Please don’t bother telling me that is what Bush is doing. Plainly- it is not. Iraq is in shambles, yet the oil is running just fine. No planning for pre or post war rebuilding- but the oil wells were guarded right away.

If we discuss this or not- the Iraqi’s saw where this Admin’s, and hence ours, interest were. And they were not with the Iraqi people.

Ben
NOT TO MENTION THAT CHENEY HAS PERSONALLY GAINED OVER 300 MILLION IN INCREASE IN STOCK VALUE. Where did you get that information? lol

BEN
"NOT TO MENTION THAT CHENEY HAS PERSONALLY GAINED OVER 300 MILLION IN INCREASE IN STOCK VALUE." Wher did you get that information? LOL

Matt, Esq. writes:
[No sir. They accused him of the wag the dog issue when he bombed an asprin factory right about the time the impeacement vote was comning about. The only thing he did in terms of Bin Laden was failed to pull the trigger when the man was in plain sight. Again, you MUST take the bad with the good if you expect to win an argument that Clinton was good for american foreign policy.]

================================
You should take your own advice. The agents talking about the aspirin factory were interviewed. It was a real threat, they advised Clinton- he approved the operation- the Republicans in congress, by law, get the same intelligence. What you are talking about is the spin form the conservative media. Hyperbole with out fact.

David
DavidMac writes: Tuesday, December, 19, 2006 3:29 PM
Ben
posted, "the N. Korea deal under Clinton. That deal attained full control over the use of nuclear facilities. It was not until Bush took office and cancelled the exports of oil to N. Korea that the N. Koreans kicked out the UN. "

The US learned that North Korea was continuing their efforts toward nuclear weapons in the 1990's and therefor withdrew from the agreement.
You have it backwards.

It wasn't Bush, it was North Korea that violated the agreement.
===========================================

Got a link or source? I will readily admit, some many facts- sometimes they do run together.

Ben

Jslab writes
Jslab writes: Tuesday, December, 19, 2006 3:35 PM
BEN
"NOT TO MENTION THAT CHENEY HAS PERSONALLY GAINED OVER 300 MILLION IN INCREASE IN STOCK VALUE." Wher did you get that information? LOL


Just do the math. He had x amoutn of stock- stock price goes up, difference in price = gain/ or lose.

Matt, Esq.
*He, in conjunction with the UN, gave Saddam an ultimatum, when he Saddam didn’t listen- Clinton gave the order. Case closed. *

Man, you really have your head up your but if you think clinton did anything to significantly engage Sadaam Hussein. I'm really baffled you can possibly think this. Not to mention, if you recall, Bill was firmly convinced that Iraq was developing WMD's and thought they were a huge threat- he's said that much- and what did he do about it ? Nothing.
=========================================
One of us certainly has their head up a butt.

Okay, did he do something or not. He attacked Iraq, but he did nothing...come on..which is it.

Now, i will say this. If he didn't have the raving neo-cons biting at his ankles 24/7- we, as a nation, could have done more.



Surprise- I disagree again
Ok Ben, I've tried to be rational and fair with you but if you can't even admit the worst clinton policy failure during his 8 years, you are not worth the time I'm taking to debate with you.


==========================================

I don't think you have been rational at all.
Read the conversation that David and I had- that was rational.