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Tuesday, October 24, 2006
Dennis Prager :: Townhall.com Columnist
A vote for Patty Wetterling can hurt children
by Dennis Prager
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I do not live in Minnesota.

Nor have I ever written a column about any congressional race.

But what Patty Wetterling, Democratic congressional candidate in Minnesota's sixth district, just did is so wrong, so dishonest, so low even for the generally negative tone of political advertising, and so injurious to children, that I am breaking a lifelong silence on congressional races to beg Democrats and others in her district not to vote for her.

This is not motivated by partisanship; I would even prefer a candidate to the left of her. Vote for the Green candidate if there is one; write in someone to the left of her. But to vote for Patty Wetterling is to harm political discourse and compromise our society's battle against child abuse.

Her recent television ad, referring to the Mark Foley scandal, states: "It shocks the conscience . . . congressional leaders have admitted covering up the predatory behavior of a congressman who used the Internet to molest children."

Even the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, among America's most left/liberal newspapers, which essentially endorses only Democrats, published an article under the headline, "Wetterling ad overstates facts: The TV spot by the Sixth District candidate is wrong in stating that members of Congress admitted to a coverup -- none has."

But that lie in the Patty Wetterling ad is actually the lesser of its sins. The greater sin, the unforgivable one, is its characterization that what former Republican Congressman Mark Foley did was "molest children."

Foley not only did not molest any children, to the best of anyone's knowledge, he did not even engage in consensual sex with any page over the age of consent. (There was a relationship with one adult male who had served as a page.)

So that is the second lie in the Patty Wetterling ad. No one was molested. And no child was involved at any time in any way.

That is what prompts this anger at Patty Wetterling more than her lies, which she continues to defend. It is her use of the words "molest children" when everything that happened took place via the Internet, and the youngest page to receive his cyberspace attention was 16 years old.

Now, for the sake of clarity, lest there be even one reader who is wondering, I oppose any sexual activity between a politician and a page, even of majority age. In my capacity as a nationally syndicated radio talk show host I have had numerous young women (and men, but they are not relevant to this discussion in my case) serve as interns. I have always believed that in their eyes I was supposed to represent the ideals that I stand for, not a man on the hunt for young flesh.

Therefore, of course, I believe what Mark Foley did in his e-mails -- attempt to seduce young men -- was wrong.

But that is all he did. He never molested a child. First, he never touched any page(s), since you cannot sexually molest a person you don't touch. It utterly cheapens the word "molest."

Second, no "children" were involved. A 16-year-old is a minor as far as sexual relations are concerned (though, ironically, not in Washington, D.C., whose Democratic lawmakers have made 16 the age of sexual consent). But minor is not the same as child. Foley had no sexual contact, verbal or physical, with any children to the best of anyone's, including Patty Wetterling's, knowledge.

To equate seductive e-mails to a 16-year-old -- or even the more explicit instant messages with an 18-year-old (which no Republican knew about) -- with "molesting children" -- only undermines our efforts to fight the enormous, almost unparalleled, evil of child molestation. What Patty Wetterling has deliberately done for political gain is to cheapen, redefine, and thereby reduce hatred of, child molestation.

Democrats who excuse her point to the fact that she suffered the unspeakable tragedy of having her own child abducted 18 years ago.

This is a new development in American moral discourse -- the granting to people who have suffered the loss of a child moral credibility, thereby excusing them from normal moral judgments. The father of Nick Berg, the young American slaughtered by Islamists in Iraq, has made morally absurd comments from the national platform accorded him as a grieving father; Cindy Sheehan has attained iconic status solely because her son was killed in Iraq.

The loss of a child entitles a parent to the deepest, sincerest sympathy the human race can offer; there is no pain like the loss of a child. But that loss does not justify using that sympathy to claim special moral status -- incidentally, do any conservative parents use the loss of a child to claim that status? -- let alone excuse immoral actions.

Patty Wetterling's child was abducted in 1989, a loss compounded by the horror of never learning what happened to her child. She deserves every expression of sympathy the rest of us can muster. But that pain does not absolve her from normal moral considerations such as honesty in political discourse, let alone excuse her deliberate cheapening of the term "child molestation." If that ad helps her win, she will have done so at the price of diminishing the horror of real child molestation.

If Patty Wetterling believes that Mark Foley molested children, she does not understand the problem of child molestation. If she does not believe that Mark Foley molested children, she defamed a man and redefined molestation. In either case, she is not fit to serve in the U.S. Congress.

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About The Author
Dennis Prager is a radio show host, contributing columnist for Townhall.com, and author of 4 books including Happiness Is a Serious Problem: A Human Nature Repair Manual.
 
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Foley DID molest children
This is the definition of "molest":
-----
mo-lest-–verb (used with object) 1. to bother, interfere with, or annoy.
2. to make indecent sexual advances to.
3. to assault sexually.
-----

Foley DID bother, interfere with, and annoy. Foley DID make indecent sexual advances to children. Foley DID assault sexually. What Foley did was molest these children, regardless if it was online or a physical occurence. Foley is a disgusting human and he deserves to be held accountable for his actions.

MyOpine
Sorry, you can't get the last word quite yet!

I checked all of the web sites sent by lokietek, and still I could find nothing about your allegations that Pelosi had spoken at a NAMBLA meeting and accepted a large campaign contribution. They all referred to the gay pride parade that I brought up before. Now, if what you claim happened really did happen, I heartily apologize for my comments. But I'm still waiting for evidence.

I will admit that Nancy Pelosi is a hypocrite, but c'mon, so's almost every politician!

Anti-Partisan_Rightly
You were given TONS of proof by lokietek but you are such a Communist that you demand proof from in your words your own "LEFT NUT JOB" site.
That is not likely to ever happen because they censor out anything they don't like.

Slander? I know full well what slander is and I assume you do too. And if that is some kind of threat I will teach you another legal term.
You probobly know it anyway.

What is this "Statute in question" you are raving about to me? I never quoted any statutes to you or anyone else. It would be unlawful to give legal advice here.

Just more of your loonie tunes I guess.
You can't even keep the days straight.

Good night.
It is almost midnight here

KIMBERLY
"THE PRESIDENT LIED AND PEOPLE DIED" IS A LIE AND NOT MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU REPEAT A LIE IT IS STILL A LIE. FIND THE TRUTH AND REPEAT THAT FOR A WHILE.

Phylo Out
Time to come in. Molest used to mean to attack and come in physical contact, but Wetterling is diminishing the word if she applies it to the written word. And please stop the ad-hominem attacks at Prager. You merely diminish yourself.

Anti-Partisan_Rightly TODAY IS THE 24th
That was a few days ago we had that other tiff.
Then you told me that big WHOPPER about being politically neutral and I did beleive you.

As to shooting my toe off, I have been an NRA life member since 1958 and I am rather skilled with firearms. Not as well educated as you but since you take the liberty of name calling might I say keep your tail feathers covered, you selfrightous buffoon?

MyOpine
MyOpine writes: Tuesday, October, 24, 2006 11:39 PM

>>>"You object to my statement that NAMBLA gave money to Nancy Pelosi? THEY DID. WHAT DO YOU CARE?"

No.....like everyone else I simply asked for your evidence ... just to see how much integrity you have, before attacking people.

Do you know what slander is, slick?

>>>"You told me you are not a Liberal, YOU LIED!
AND I BELIEVED YOU!
You are about as neutral in politics as Karl Marx."


I'm libertarian. And I never claimed to be neutral.

Now ... what evidence do you have to support your allegations about Pelosi?

We're all still waiting ......






OOPS, I was here
Much earlier

Anti-Partisan_Rightly
You are sure on my case WHERE I AM NOT.
What is this all about?
You object to my statement that NAMBLA gave money to Nancy Pelosi? THEY DID. WHAT DO YOU CARE?
And I don't think they gave it to her for smile!

And as to the LYING CONTEST!
YOU DID WIN.
You told me you are not a Liberal, YOU LIED!
AND I BELIEVED YOU!
You are about as neutral in politics as Karl Marx.

MyOpine
MyOpine writes: Tuesday, October, 24, 2006 3:01 PM

>>"If you are trying to CHALLENGE ME to A LYING CONTEST you will lose that also. "

(laughing)

Yep, You are indeed the biggest liar here.

So glad you actually brag about it.

(still laughing)




BikerKnight
BikerKnight writes: Tuesday, October, 24, 2006 3:39 PM

>>>"Anti-Partisan_Righty
You impress yourself by citing various dictionary definitions of the word "molest".

I did it to inform all the rubes what the word actually means.


>>"Presuming you are educated, it may useful to remind you that a word may have a significantly different connotation (contextual definition)than it does denotation (dictionary definition)."

Presuming you are NOT educated -- here's what connotation actually means:

connotation
One entry found for connotation.
Main Entry: con·no·ta·tion
Pronunciation: "kä-n&-'tA-sh&n
Function: noun
1 a : the suggesting of a meaning by a word apart from the thing it explicitly names or describes b : something suggested by a word or thing : IMPLICATION (the connotations of comfort that surrounded that old chair)
2 : the signification of something (that abuse of logic which consists in moving counters about as if they were known entities with a fixed connotation -- W. R. Inge)
3 : an essential property or group of properties of a thing named by a term in logic -- compare DENOTATION
- con·no·ta·tion·al /-shn&l, -sh&-n&l/ adjectiv

---------

>>>"Your rather silly listing of definitions is entertaining, but does not constitute a solid refutation of those you suppose to "school". "


I figger most of you are PROUD of your ignorance, as you (essentially) admit here.


>>>"When most of us think of sexual abuse of children,

Uhhhh, we're talking about sexually MOLEST ... not abuse.

And, since you're not educated, you may not know that dictionaries record how words are actually used -- by most educated people.

So if your own thoughts are significantly different, well .... what's that say about your education and intelligence?


>>>"Unless you know precisely the language in the controlling statute (which I don't),

Hey, Slick -- it's an ad, not a statute.

Here's your card.



MyOpine
MyOpine writes: Tuesday, October, 24, 2006 6:50 PM

>>>"My post stated NAMBLA gave Nanci Polosi a large contribution. Any way you could have checked that out before you called me a liar?"

1) Did you cite any reliable sources .. or just all those rightwing websites?

2) Not that long ago, it was Republicans being slandered because of who was sending them money -- the Birchers and the American Nazi party.

Bigotry is a nonpartisan game.



lokietek
lokietek writes: Tuesday, October, 24, 2006 10:25 PM

>>>"To unknown
Stop behaving like a welfare queen. Can't you go to Google and type pelosi and NAMBDLA you lazy a**? Why am I not surprised that you are a lib that wait for handouts? Here is the list of links for you: "

Speaking of lazy a**es --- do you have any links that aren't partisan rightwing sites??

Would you accept as valid, a website by LEFTwing nutjobs?


DepecheNode
DepecheNode writes: Tuesday, October, 24, 2006 8:10 PM
>>"Molest = annoy?!?
Obviously some of the posters in this comment section seem to want to redefine the definition of 'is', a-la (allah?) Bill Clinton."

One more time -- for the mentally disadvantaged:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
mo?lest /m?'l?st/ Pronunciation Key - Show –verb (used with object)
2. to make indecent sexual advances to.

---------------------------------------

Main Entry: mo·lest
2 : to make annoying sexual advances to;... Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

-----------------------------

molest

v 1: ... make indecent advances to

WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton Universit


MyOpine
MyOpine writes: Tuesday, October, 24, 2006 12:00 PM

>>"Anti-Partisan_Rightly;
I know you are not a Duck, we have gone through that before BUT; would you please stop waddling through the tules yelling "QUACK, QUACK" while I am duck hunting? "

So sorry that I actually checked the statute in question. Reality bites.

And I sincerely hope you learn how to hunt without shooting yourself in the foot so often.



Of all my favorite comments...
The best comment in this really rather absurd article is this:

"...no "children" were involved.... minor is not the same as child...."

Unless this moron is talking about music, "Minor" means a child --- at least where I went to law school.


laugh break
q: what do you call a daschund who crosses from one side of a muddy road to the other, turns around and starts for the other side and on the way to the other side he rolls in the mud?

a: a low-down dirty double crosser!


break's over

Patty Wetterling
I would hope that Ms. Wetterling is simply a liar as if she really believes this about Congressman Foley. and is elected, HEAVEN help us.

Molest = annoy?!?
Obviously some of the posters in this comment section seem to want to redefine the definition of 'is', a-la (allah?) Bill Clinton.

To molest is not merely to annoy or bother.

In the standard dictionaries molest indeed does mean those things. You can molest a dresser drawer by sloppily rearranging its contents.

When speaking of molesting children though, pick up a LAW DICTIONARY.

Example:

molestation
n. the crime of sexual acts with children up to the age of 18, including touching of private parts, exposure of genitalia, taking of pornographic pictures, rape, inducement of sexual acts with the molester or with other children and variations of these acts by pedophiles. Molestation also applies to incest by a relative with a minor family member and any unwanted sexual acts with adults short of rape.
See also: pedophilia rape

Courtesy of law.com

Leftist immorality precludes rational thought when everybody in their right sensibilities reading this article in context understands what molest means.

I guess some must argue for the sake of arguing from the stupid side of the fence.

Frey writes:
"I suggest that the first plank on the Infidel Party platform shall be to bring back Firefly! Joss Whedon is a genius! Sci-Fi Channel, are you listening?
"

Now you're talking. If we raise $50 million in our first presenditial campaign, we can make another installment in the Serenity series. Word is that all actors have signed contracts to do a Trilogy. Serenity just broke even a couple of months back with its after market sales.

I think another installment of the Serenity series is a afar better contribution to politics than any T.V. or radio candidate ads, eh?

"Back to a slightly political note, it seems like the Alliance in Firefly (the dictatorship that runs the known universe, for non-Firefly fans) is exactly what the extreme right fears will happen if the Dems gain too much power. The Alliance is their nightmare. People on the left look at Republican "interpretations" of the Constitution (and possible future adjustments) and the actions of the extreme religious right, and they see an "Alliance-in-the-making". Opposite sides of the political spectrum, but they identify with the same heroes, for very similar reasons. Crazy world, huh?"

Face it. Control is control, doesn't matter where it comes from, right or left. Hey, if you haven't noticed it, check out the first Serenity episode of Firefly. Malcolm never says anything but he is wearing a cross and he kisses it before heading out to shoot down the plane. Malcolm looses his faith in religion and God on that battlefield. It is to Joss's genius credit that he never states it in dialog, only visually. Sheperd Book, on the other hand, is his opposite in that regard. Book was a warrior who then became a preacher. Book is former Alliance. Too bad the series ended early and Whedon killed off Book in Serenity so we'll never get to see the drama between them really unfold.


Shoot...
I am too late for this one huh? Everyone is gone... all I hear are crickets...

Dona261
The worst of it will be over in a few weeks, I HOPE.

Liberals...
We don't like liberal ideas primarily (for me at least) due to the fact that the appeasement crowd WILL get us all killed.

Dona261
For that to happen the democrats would have to start waving little red flags with a hammer and sickle on them!

Mountain Rose
No questions. I really come here just to read what's being said but sometimes I can't help but comment on the most outrageous mis-statements.

If both sides would just be as honest as possible and cut out the self serving shading of the truth, maybe there would be hope for a unified country but probably not in my life time.
There is apparently too much bitterness on both sides.

red devil
Are you DRINKING dihydrous momoxide?
Be careful you don't breath any of THAT stuff.
There are things here on this Earth that are just not safe!

Frey
Don't shoot, I am mearly inquiring.

You know a lot about research.
Campaign donations are supposed to be public record?
My post stated NAMBLA gave Nanci Polosi a large contribution. Any way you could have checked that out before you called me a liar?

Maybe someone will.

I am a liberal mostly Democrat
I don't approve of that ad and Mr. Prager misses the worst part of it when he doesn't point out that Mrs. Wetterling's opponent, Michele Bachmann isn't even in Congress and therefore could have nothing to do with a Republican cover-up of Foley's actions.

Why do you all always bring up Gary Studds and leave out Dan Crane? They were both censured by the way.

I am old enough to have seen the debate between John O'Neill and John Kerry on the Dick Cavett show. To Kerry's face, O'Neill backed down on all the lies he had been spreading about him while being paid by Richard Nixon. I thought the gay vendetta thing was pretty reprehensible but the Swift Boat was the worst.

Many Democrats advance ideas and plans for Iraq, social security and other things. The Republicans don't let them bring bills to the floor but I don't see how you can miss hearing or reading about some of them. It negates your arguments when you constantly say Democrats have no ideas. You don't like their ideas--that's different.

liberal_dialogue
Favorite character: tough one (of course), but I'd have to say Kaylee. Although Jayne is a seriously close second. He's so deliciously amoral, and conversely, it's interesting to see his moral character develop over the series. My wife's favorite is Wash. (Waahh!)

Favorite episode: equally tough one, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say "War Stories" Great character interaction, and we see a scary side of River that's important later on.

I suggest that the first plank on the Infidel Party platform shall be to bring back Firefly! Joss Whedon is a genius! Sci-Fi Channel, are you listening?

Back to a slightly political note, it seems like the Alliance in Firefly (the dictatorship that runs the known universe, for non-Firefly fans) is exactly what the extreme right fears will happen if the Dems gain too much power. The Alliance is their nightmare. People on the left look at Republican "interpretations" of the Constitution (and possible future adjustments) and the actions of the extreme religious right, and they see an "Alliance-in-the-making". Opposite sides of the political spectrum, but they identify with the same heroes, for very similar reasons. Crazy world, huh?

If anyone is still reading, I'd love to hear from some Firefly fans on the right as well. Any thoughts?

"same ol' same o'"
ya'll say the same thing over and over. Want proof look for it yourself at http://www.townhall.com/columnists/BrentBozellIII/2006/10/11/democrats_on_sex_and_children or
call those "sources" yourself, or go where ever u go to get "jacked up" with your contrite silliness. Or hey here's a novel idea, Vote.


Frey writes:
"as a fan of Firefly and a leftie who is sick of being characterized as the Anti-Christ, I LOVED your little sarcastic Reaver post from Oct. 22, 11:27 AM. "

Hey thanks!

Awesome! A Firefly fan! wooo hooo! Right on! Who's your favorite character? What episode? When I ask people their favorite episode I usually get "Out of Gas". Which is odd to my thinking because it is the least action, most dramatic episode. For my money I like "Heart of Gold." Although actually, I like them all and "Heart of Gold" only wins by a photo finish.

And the Hero of Canton is my favorite character. How can it not be? He's got some of the funniest lines. "Hey, I didn't fight in no war, best of luck though."

Personally I like being the Anti-Christ. Which probably explains my affinity to the Hero of Canton. I think its kinda cute actually they way these folks all bluster about, spittle flying everyway.

I've decided I'm going to quit calling myself an atheist, but rather go with infidel. Infidel is more appropriate for an Anti-Christ type figure, and the definition of being non-religious is more to the point. I actually could personally care less whether there is a God or not. Which doesn't quite make me an atheist or an agnotistic. But definitely makes me an INFIDEL!

I should be the domain "http://www.infidel.com/" and start an Infidel's Unite! Campaign with the Hero of Canton as a mascot!

Or, how 'bout a new political party, the Infidel party! woooo hooo!



truthbetold
I appreciate your last posting,(5:05 PM).

Now that you've cleared that up, I can stay here on Earth and continue my studies about the "left" side of this planet.

For a brief moment I thought I was packing and heading home for sure!

AllyHM
I'm sorry if your parents are still Democrats. I didn't mean to say they are unintelligent, but I have to question their knowledge about what the national Democrat Party stands for these days. They sound like what used to be called "yellow dog Democrats". I really hope that your conservative Democrats have the "guts" to stand up to the leaders of their own party and won't allow themselves to be cowed into going along with that crowd. If you have any doubts about them, check their voting records to see how they voted. If they voted with the national party and for all the liberal positions, then I would say that there isn't any hope that your definitely out-numbered represatives will be able to reform the Democrat party from inside.
Do your parents support all the positions that I asked you about or are they much closer to you in their opinions?

red devil
I don't know that you are an alien, but I don't know that you aren't either. I have NO FACTS on which to base an opinion. If I were a liberal, I wouldn't need any FACTS to make a decision. I would be all-knowing and 100 % SURE that I'm correct. I almost said right, but I don't want to even use that word describing the socialist/liberal who already know everything.

AllyHM
Just a thought: When you put a white glove into a pail of mud--the mud does not come out all "glovey."

Get out of the Democratic Party as fast as you can......it will change, but I'm afraid, it will continue to change toward more and more evil....

MyOpine
Hey MO,

I didn't respond to your posting as none was required. Read what I wrote and maybe you'll get it this time.

No, I don't breath oxygen but TBT was close. I drink nitrogen!

And TBT, how did you know I am an alien??? My cover is busted now!


truthbetold
Thank you, again! I suppose I am "intelligent" as you say, but my mother and father - both still staunch Democrats who are, sadly, quite leftist - are both quite intelligent; they are just so stuck in their beliefs that they aren't able to see truth and reality. So I'm not sure that characterizing all Democrats as unintelligent is an apt generality.

I appreciate your analogies, really I do. I'm just not ready to concede defeat - yet. I'm letting God take the lead, you see, and He will tell me if/when I need to leave the Democratic party. Acknowledging that God is in control is a very freeing experience. Fortunately, in my little corner of the world, even the Democratic candidates are quite moderate-to-conservative. I know, that sounds like an oxymoron, but it's true. We live in one of those rare places where the local political parties tend to agree on the issues. Nationally, it's a different story, of course. For now, as long as I can, in good conscience, vote for local Democratic yet conservative candidates, I will stay where I am. If that ever changes...well, then I suppose I will try to hear what God is saying to me and act accordingly. :)

Thank God for "liberal dialog"
Hey liberal dialog,

Please keep up the good work. Some of my conservative friends were considering laying low this election. But your posts have been so informative,that they have since reconsidered.

Again, lib dia,keep up the emotions.

One of your biggest fans.

AllyHM
You seem to be much more intelligent than the average Democrat in that you recognize that they are no longer your father's Democrats with apoligies to Oldsmobile's commercial. Having said that, I would like to ask you that if you were on the Titanic and knew that it was sinking would you stay on board and keep bailing or would you take to the life boats and save yourself?

How much sucess are you having trying to reform the Democrats from the inside?

Another analogy: If you were a nice worm in a rotten apple, would you stay there and try to make it a good apple? I don't mean to call you a worm in the analogy as it nothing personal and I respect you as another human being who is trying to do the right thing.

anti-socialist
Hold on there. That is a generalization that just will not do.

I do NOT support same-sex marriage, but I also will not condemn an entire group of people based on the actions of a few.

One of my best friends is a gay man (yes, he knows where I stand and respects my position - we love each other anyway) and he would NEVER harm a child, nor would he consider anyone under the age of 18 as "OK" for sexual advances.

How do I know this? We have always confided everything to each other about our lives, public and private. He probably knows more about me than my own husband since he has known me longer and knew me "back in the day" when we were both young and stupid. Based on my history (see an earlier post by me), I would be acutely aware if he had any such desires.

Generalities serve no purpose.

You liberal trolls...LMAO!
Lefties, I find your post pathetic, yet amusing! You may believe that your posts might change a person's mind here, but all they do is re-enforce our knowledge that the left side of the political spectrum lacks the ability to think logically or with reason.

Liberal-D, do you find it interesting that John Kerry wouldn't release his military records during the 2004 election? Do you realize that a person cannot receive a valid purple heart medal if they shot themself or injury themself? Yet two of JK's purple hearts were from self-inflicted minor injuries that required a simple band-aid. And don't even get me started about his lying under oath before Congress about military crimes that he never saw, but he was told they were really bad. When the VietCong have a picture of John Kerry in their victory museum, that should be all you need to know!

Missed point in the Foley matter..
Homosexuals can't be trusted with children, regardless of what cover they use (including priest, scout leader, teacher, politician, etc.).

political gamesmanship
The political gamesmanship of Pelosi and Patty Wetterling regarding Foley is filled with a sickening stench of hypocrisy and dishonesty. It is the Democrats who champion the gay life style, encourage and protect sexual deviates, want the mention of God erased from society, and refuse to acknowledge that partial birth abortion is a heinous murder. For them to be casting the stones of a “culture of corruption”, they conveniently forget that Foley is not the first politician to flagrantly violate the public's trust.

In 1983, Democrat Congressman Gerry Studds of Massachusetts, after admitting that he engaged in a sexual relationship with a 17 year-old congressional page, had the audacity to chastise the House of Representatives for calling for his censure, claiming that he had "broken no laws." Did Studds resign in shame? Not on your life! He stayed in Congress for another 12 years finally retiring in 1996...

Not long ago, it was discovered that the boyfriend of Democrat Congressman Barney Frank was running a brothel from the basement of the apartment they shared. What was Frank's punishment? Not one thing... He's now a member of the Democrat leadership.

Democrat Congressman William Jefferson of Louisiana gave a new meaning to the term "cold hard cash" when federal investigators found a stash of $90,000.00 in his freezer this spring. To make matters worse, when federal investigators tried to execute a search warrant on Jefferson's office, Democrat Congressmen screamed that allowing the search would violate the "separation of powers" provision of the Constitution!

Democrat Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney assaulted a police officer several months ago. When her transgression became public, instead of apologizing, McKinney made what can only be described as a very lame attempt to play the race card.

Democrats Patrick Kennedy, Ted Kennedy, Gary Conduit, Bill Clinton, as well as the congressional check-kiting and the congressional post office episodes, are all examples of the Democrat’s penchant for corruption and scandal.... The list goes on and on and on... and the stench is so thick you could cut it with a knife!

Is There News Here?

I respect Dennis as a tremendously intelligent and insightful man. But he sounds stunningly naive here. What is the big issue he is writing about? Democrats lie - so what? What's new about this? The Democrat Party cannot survive without lying and deception, and this has been known for a long time, so why should anyone be shocked or surprised by this? They lie on every issue (although they do sometimes mix lies with the truth to confuse the listener). It's the party of lies.

Presently they won't even tell the American people what they will do when they re-gain control of Congress (because the election is in the bag for them - I saw a poll conducted by a liberal so I know it's true).

Notice too on the Foley issue how outraged they, are, but they weren't outraged by Gerry Studds behavior, or Barney Franks gay brothel or some of the other perverts in their party, or their killer Ted Kennedy, or their former Ku Klux Klan recruiter Robert Byrd who they put in charge of the U.S. Senate for 6 years and in line for the Presdency, are they now?

The Foley issue is just their latest political game that enables them to compete without discussing issues. They are not even remotely outraged or interested in Foley's behavior. This is an old story and they held it until election time for maximum advantage so they could talk about Mark Foley instead of national security, tax policy, or any other issue that matters. Big deal, turn the page.



Anti-Partisan_Righty
You impress yourself by citing various dictionary definitions of the word "molest". Presuming you are educated, it may useful to remind you that a word may have a significantly different connotation (contextual definition)than it does denotation (dictionary definition). I sincerely believe that if you asked even liberal people to describe in their own words the meaning of "molest" or "molestation", most of them would start with words describing unwanted touching, vice unwanted expression. Your rather silly listing of definitions is entertaining, but does not constitute a solid refutation of those you suppose to "school". When most of us think of sexual abuse of children, our thoughts go directly to actions first, and words as a distant afterthought. When legislation is written (such as legislation against child molestation), those critical legally significant terms used in the legislation are either defined in the statute, or the law becomes un-enforcible. Unless you know precisely the language in the controlling statute (which I don't), you add little to meaningful debate concerning who is covering up or condoning unlawful activity. In my hateful, objective truth-filled world, an accusation of illegal activity in a political ad or anywhere else would needs be true, or at least would need reasonably to seem true to a prudent person, to constitute protected speech. I think it is very clear that Ms. Wetterling's ad falls abruptly short of my non-controlling extra-legal standard.
Now go look up some new words; it's good for you.

Frey
I guess you are right about me believing any bad thing I hear about a Democrat. With the reputation Democrats have I tend to beleive the worst of them. Pelosi has drawn a lot of attention lately.

Republican corruption is rare and the rare things are what make headlines. Democrat corruption is just too common I guess.

I see what you Democrats are trying to do.
You are trying to STARVE ME.
It is past lunch time and I am already weak from hunger.

liberal dialog
No problem. Thanks for the reply.

I can see many reasons not to vote for republicans (and several reasons which force someone to) but the Foley matter isn't a valid one.

If I could I would vote Constitution party most likely.

Have any of you heard of instant-runoff voting?
It would solve these problems outright.
You select your first 3 choices, then if a majority isn't reached in your first choice, your second choice is cast and the same for the third.

truthbetold
Thank you for your kind response.

No, I did not report any of my "perps" at the time. Like you, I did not know I needed to do that. Besides, as people of all ages often do, I assumed it was my fault that the "bad thing" had happened. The 1st one decided he was gay as an adult; the 2nd one is dead and SURPRISE, the 3rd one and I connected by email & phone a few years ago. He thoroughly apologized, and I forgave him. Seriously. Best thing I ever did. Can't tell you the enormous weight off of my shoulders that came by doing that. I am sorry that you were molested as well. I hope you have forgiven that man, at least in your heart, and have moved on.

Re: Foley. My sincere hope is that either (1) he will be charged under the very laws he loudly and forcefully helped create or (2) his case will finally convince the hysterical masses that the sex offender registry (SOR) ISN'T doing what it's supposed to do, which is protect children from THOSE WHO PREY UPON CHILDREN OR OTHERS SEXUALLY. You see, most states' registries include people who urinated behind a tree or in an alley, people who mooned their high school principal on the last day of school as a prank, teenagers who have had consensual sex (no, I don't approve of teenage sex, but I also don't think that and 18-yr-old who had sex w/ his girlfriend should be on the SOR as a threat to society just because her parents found out) and people who "chatted" in the online fantasyland who never had any intention of acting on those fantasies (what? oh, you mean not everyone is who they SAY they are on the 'net?). We are wasting valuable resources, both in money and manpower, by tracking thousands of people who are "sex offenders" by legal definition but who aren't sexual predators by any stretch of the imagination. By most estimates, 90-95% of those on the SOR are not considered a threat, only about 5-10% are true predators. While law enforcement spends time & effort on tracking those 18-yr-olds and making sure they are "in compliance", a true predator molests another child because it's so easy for him to slip through the holes in a net that is cast too wide.

As two your third query, I am a registered Democrat because (a) when I was much younger, Democratic values and core principles were much more in line with my own. I recognize that is no longer the case, I just have trouble making the switch after lifelong affiliation. Also, I feel that I should try to change things from within the party, be the voice of reason so to speak, not switch affiliations. Most Democrats in my area "look" more like Republicans!

As for the remainder of your questions:

Do you want to cut and run in Iraq? No.

Do you favor same-sex marriage? No.

Are you in favor of abortion on demand up until the moment of birth? No, although as a survivor of rape AND as someone with health issues that pregnancy and childbirth would complicate greatly - even to the point of paralysis and/or death - I have a less conservative view than most on abortion in general.

Do you like to pay more taxes? No.

Do you want a socialist government for our country? No.

Do you believe the terrorists when they say they want to conquer us or do you think that we can appease them? I have no doubt terrorists hope to kill of us, the infidels and there is no appeasing them.

Do you have a vitriolic hatred of our country's President? No.

Still, I will remain a Democrat and work from the inside. :)

Hey Guys--
Good guys and Democrats too.
There is an AWFUL lot of crap on this link.
(NO THE OTHER KIND OF CRAP) I just got knocked off line by it. Be sure to cleanup as soon as you leave the net.
If you need wash clothes go to TuCows.com or download.com and get AdAware AND WinPatrol. They are free and you need them both.
_________________
And now I lost my place but Ill get back in gear.

unknown
You wrote:
"Thank you for also calling MyOpine on his outrageous fabrication."

unknown, reasonable people (on the right and left) need to stick together. People like MyOpine, who apparently believe any anti-Left claim they hear, are scary. Well, yeah, hilarious, too, but also scary.

See you.


to liberal_dialogue
This may be a little inappropriate, since it's in reference to the discussion of another article, but liberal_dialogue, as a fan of Firefly and a leftie who is sick of being characterized as the Anti-Christ, I LOVED your little sarcastic Reaver post from Oct. 22, 11:27 AM. Classic. I put it here since you're probably not checking the other article anymore.

That's all, carry on. Thanks for your understanding.

Double standard
truthbetold (right-wing) wrote, in response to a post by Kimberly:
"If you give us the FACTS of all your supposed illustrations, we can and will check them out to see whether you are lying or not and that is why you never give any detail."

MyOpine (also right-wing) wrote, in response to a challenge by unknown:
"I do not keep notes on such things.
AND I DO NOT GET DISTRACTED DOING RESEACH FOR SOMEONE WHO IS NOT AWARE OF CURRENT EVENTS."

Guys, what's the deal? Oh, I get it(snapping fingers). Consistency doesn't matter when you're fighting the evil, child-molesting, skin-eating, leftie conspiracy to destroy America. Got it.

Unknown
If you are trying to CHALLENGE ME to A LYING CONTEST you will loose that also.
Granted you did almost fool me with that dumb act.
YOU HAVE APTLY DEMONSTRATED YOU ARE A HABITUAL LIAR and all I need to do to tell a bigger lie is say "I believe you!"

unknown
Well, since MyOpine is seemingly too busy to do a quick Google search, I checked the Pelosi-NAMBLA connection myself. For those who forgot, MyOpine wrote:
"It was on FOX news and created a big stir on Talk Radio. Nancy Pelosi spoke before a NAMBLA meeting and thanked them for a humongous campaign contribution."

Well, couldn't find anything about that. I did find several mentions of the San Francisco 2001 Gay Pride parade, in which Nancy Pelosi marched close to openly gay Harry Hay, an apparent proponent of man-boy love (boy being 13-15 years old). A Pelosi-NAMBLA connection? Maybe. What MyOpine claimed? No.

MyOpine, either show us a link to the evidence, or get your facts straight.

allyHM
I am sorry to hear that you were molested multiple times in the past. Did you say or do anything to bring these people to the attention of the justice system or any authorities? Did you warn any other children to beware of these people?

When I was about 12 a man fondled me while I was swimming and I didn't tell any adults or authorities because I didn't know that you should do that. It was not a gnerally known thing at that time because it was not something that was talked about for whatever reason. However, I did tell everyone around me to stay away from that man because he was doing something wrong. I hope that I spoild his "fun" for at least that day. I didn't live in that area and was only passing through on a vacation, so I have no idea if he was ever prosecuted or not.

You said that at worst what Foley did was illegal and then say he should be in jail or on the sex offender registry. He has to be found guilty of a crime before either of those things can happen and I don't believe that the fact that he WAS a congressman is going to protect him from legal actions if indeed he committed a crime. If priests can be prosecuted, Foley can be as well. First he has to be found guilty of a crime under the laws of the state or federal government and I believe he is being investigated by multiple jurisdictions for criminal behavior and if anything he did was criminal, he will go down for it. There aren't any Republicans that are appauding anything that he did and are unamiously condemning him as a pervert who was involved in disgusting behavior even if it is legal.

Shifting gears, allyHM if you are moderate to conservative, why do you continue in the Democrat party. Where are you in agreement with their platform? Do you want to cut and run in Iraq? Do you favor same-sex marriage? Are you in favor of abortion on demand up until the moment of birth? Do you like to pay more taxes? Do you want a socialist government for our country? Do you believe the terrorists when they say they want to conquer us or do you think that we can appease them? Do you have a vitriolic hatred of our country's President? If you agree with all those positions then you should stay in the party that holds those positions. If you don't agree with the majority of those positions, why don't you find another party that you agree with more? It doesn't have to be the Republican party, but you need to stop supporting the Democrats if you don't agree with them.

Liberal Dialog
This is more crap that has been debunked countless times. Reworded from what you posted YESTERDAY AND EVERY WORD HAS already BEEN DEBUNKED!

On the subject of Hanoi Kerry;
Have you ever handled a small fast twin engine craft? Ever wonder about why Kerry had to go back to pick up a member of his own crew after he "Cut & Run" from the sound of OUR OWN gunfire?
IF you sudenly reverse one screw, that boat will ABRUPTLY hunch down in the stern and PIVOT!
IF someone was standing on the bow and had no warning of this he would be thrown overboard.
I think that is exactly what happened.

Wetterling is just like the rest
It seems all you have do to be a Democrat politician is Bash Bush and all conservatives in general. Well I hope Nov 7 elections end with egg on their collective faces again. Lying libs (99%) make me sick. I know there are probably some decent liberals but I have not met any yet.
I am keeping an open mind. LOL

Political Logic for the Insane 101
This could well be a required course for Democratic candidates and their PACS and media consultants. The truth doesn't seem to be required in the dialog of many of the Democratic candidates. I've picked up on several talking heads and folks in these comment spaces still claiming that Rove outed Valerie, and other such nonsense. First, they make false charges and then claim that every statement made by or action of that person or anyone associated with them that they can loosely relate to that originally false statement (no matter if it has been proven to be false) is thereafter is a liar, thief, cheat, charlatan.

Has anyone, especially Mountain Rose, noticed the ads of Jim Talent's ADversary in Missouri? I live in Missouri, and the race is really ugly. I believe Jim's ads are pretty good, but Claire's are nasty. The real fight seems to be about the Bio-Tech scam for tricking us "rednecks" into letting them guarantee harvesting eggs, growing embryos in test tubes , and then killing them to harvest the stem cells for research. They promise not to clone any "human beings." Even Michael J. Fox is doing a sick ad for Amendment 2 and Claire in the same spot. (See Drudge.)

I've come to believe that if you want to know what a Dummycrat is doing, or is guilty of having done, you can listen to what he is accusing a Republican of doing. (It's called "projection.")
Remember when you were little and an argument could be won with a "Well!" drawn out in a nasal sounding like "Wheelll!"
This usually followed a long series of "Uh,Huh," "Nuh,Huh," "Did so," Did not!" Is that what the Dummycrats have finally resorted to?

We know Clinton lied! We've got the dress to prove it!


Unknown
I do not keep notes on such things.
AND I DO NOT GET DISTRACTED DOING RESEACH FOR SOMEONE WHO IS NOT AWARE OF CURRENT EVENTS.
On MSM you have your head in the sand.

That is a common Democrat ploy around here.
They waste our time demanding documentation of every word we say. They send us on wild goose chases folling irelevent links they claim as proof and they keep rewording and posting the same falshoods that have been refuted EVERY DAY!
It gets a little tedious. TRY SOMETHING NEW!

homer writes:
Dream on buddy.

Mark my words. Swift boating will be in the venacular as a canoncial example of lying and smearing. In the dictionary.

The merits of the case of have been hashed ad nausem. Kerry's metals still stand.

I'll take the military's judgement over John O'Neil's any day. Where did O'Neil get his money from?

No, the veterans , all of them lied. Your statement about the "bonds" is just your way of giving them a free pass.

Every one of them had motive to lie about Kerry, mostly they hated him for his testimony to Congress.

The Swift Boat incident is not the first or last case of American hysteria. The Salem Witch trials are a well documented case of hysteria long before this country was founded.

The pretext that these guys didn't care whether John had false metals or not, except now he was running for President, is so flimsy even a six-year-old can see through it.

No, they, like you, all hated John Kerry.

Hysteria.







Really Liberal_Dialog?
"The level of lying and smearing reached new heights with "Swift Boating". Every formal military investigation done into Kerry's metals has come out the same, he deserved them. O'Neil is a proven liar."

Really? check your legal history brother. Kerry tried to say the same thing in court. JFK sued the Swift Boaters 3 times and had all 3 cases dismissed on him. He contemplated/threatened a 4th shortly after the election in 04. Decided not to follow through with that one as it would have placed ALL of his military records into the public domain. (Course, could just be Teresa got sick of throwing good money after bad on her coward in residence too.) The SB's may be guilty of something, but I don't think it's lying about John Kerry.

Also, while it's just anecdotal, personal history informs me that when the vast majority of a mans unit is willing to go public like that, something just isn't right. Totally against the honor code. 1st - the odds of them all being co'oped and 'partisan' are incredibly long. the odds of them all being naive public attention hounds are even longer. 2nd - as it relates to the general honor code, you just don't do that to a brother, less of an infraction just to shoot him. so whatever he was in vietnam, john kerry was no one's brother in arms. if he were, this never would have been an issue and his service would have clearly, decisively been everything he's tried to portray it as being. you'd have had 2-3 guys saying stuff like this. Not 100+. too much instead is a matter of public record - particularly as it relates to the way he sold out his 'brothers' upon his return home. i'd bet my house JFK's everything the SB's say he was - self-serving coward with delusions of grandeur - and THEN some. unfit to lead himself to the latrine much less men into battle, or the worlds only current super power.

while I can understand that you don't have the personal experience to understand the bonds between military personel, I can't understand how basic logic seems to escape you. If you want to have a prayer in making any argument, the facts have to seem to fit your lies at the very least. These don't in any way. stick with bush lied people died. it's no less nuanced in terms of a couched critique, but for some reason, it doesn't sound half as stupid as you trying to sell - JFK, War Hero - to me. Not sure what village your from, but hoping you're their idiot. God forbid there's someone even more obtuse there.

RE: DavidM writes:
Apologies.

My generalization was meant to include Bush and the talking heads on the right: Limbaugh, Prager, Hannity, Coulter, Savage, Ingram, etc.

It was not meant to be more than that.

In fact, I miss the days of David Brinkley when George Will and Sam Donaldson use to have at it. That was the best right / left show I've ever seen. Brinkley with his sly grin.

I would not include George Will or William F. Buckley in that generalization.

But does Bill O'Reilly thing he's God? You bet.

unknown
This Foley thing is another example.
MSM still has their teeth in that minor scandal like a dog shaking a ragged piece of cloth.
A REAL HONEST TO GOODNESS Democrat PEDIFILE
was quietly pushed out of the limelight and forgotten while they were still chewing on Foley.

The crime of one person in a large group does not make the whole group a criminal. One Democrat pedifile does not soil the honor of all Democrats and should not but Foley does not soil the honor of all republicans either.

Unknown
This is precisely what I mean by MSM spoon feeding Liberals ONLY WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR.
It was on FOX news and created a big stir on Talk Radio. Nancy Pelosi spoke before a NAMBLA meeting and thanked them for a humongous campaign contribution.
There is a lot of stuff like that MSM skips over litely or just censors. They only harp on things Democrats WANT to hear and if they do not have a Republican scandal to harp on they will FABRICATE one. Most of the Democrat scandals they cover up are minor but our MSM is the first to scream "The Public Has A Right To Know", and the first to censor what they don't want you to know. My youngest child just turned 60 and we don't have any grandchildren that would interest NAMBLA but many parents do.

Definition
To those above who have, by quoting dictionary definitions, tried to equate what Foley did as sexual molestation of a child:

I am a survivor of child sexual abuse. I was molested (fondled) by a 16-year-old neighbor when I was 8 years old, "french" kissed by my mother's best friend's elderly father when I was 12, and had my virginity taken when I was 14 by my brother's 20-year-old best friend - against my will.

DO NOT equate what we have so far heard Foley has done with sexual molestation of a child. It simply is NOT the same. The writer of this article is absolutely right on (by the way, I'm a registered Democrat who considers herself to be moderate-to-conservative).

Having said that, what Foley has done is reprehensible at best and illegal at worst. I am thoroughly disgusted that he is able to hide out in rehab when so many other men, who had no physical contact with a minor of any kind but who "chatted" inappropriatly online, are serving sentences and/or are sitting on sex offender registries. His position and the fact that he has vast financial resources are the only reasons he has not been charged with a crime.

I have said all along, this is not a partisan issue. This is an issue about those who "have" and those who "have not"; it's about being able to buy one's way out of an illegal situation; it's about fear-mongering on the part of politicians and main stream media and passing knee-jerk/feel-good law after knee-jerk/feel-good law so that we can all SAY "NOW, the children are protected!", when in the end nothing can protect one's children better than good parenting.

Wake up, America, before it's too late.

The Sun Also Rises
The sun will most likely rise tomorrow. Politicians lie. Anything else new?

AND Democrats
Before you start the new arangement of cut & past, I would lake to caution you that rewording and posting the same false statements in constant repitition when you are, or should be aware they have been refuted countless times has a proper word to describe it and I am an old geezer who is NOT PC. I do not use words like "Spin" or "Probility Gap" or "Factually Handicaped".
You Democrats keep saying you have a plan other than your standard Cut & Run but you are afraid to tell the American people. Afraid we won't like it?
These Cut & Past columns of crap are really stale. You expect us to trust you have an original plan for America WHEN YOU CAN'T EVEN COME UP WITH AN ORIGINAL PAGE OF FABRICATIONS?

MyOpine
How do you know that red devil breathes oxygen? He could be an alien from somewhere that breathes nitrogen.

Yes evrything need documentation or it is just your word about it. If there is no documentation, how can the "FACTS" be judged for truth if there is no documentation. Unless you are GOD Himself, your word is not proof positive that what you say is true and factual. That's why documentation is needed.

The requirement for documentation is necessary for any statements that are made. Anyone can say anything, but just because someone said it doesn't make it either true or false. In order to determine whether something is true or false some kind of documentation is needed to make an informed decision.

liberal dialog
Can i get a postcard from wherever it is you inhabit?

I have seen plenty of criticism of Bush and the Republicans on a number of issues(Mediscare drugs,Borders,fair/flat tax,SS reform,etc).

Not only that, how is it when the republicans remove a member found to be wrongdoing is it 'never admitting you did anything wrong'?
Foley resigned didn't he?
What did Studds do?

Read my previous post and that sums up your 'argument' pretty well.

red devil
The air you breath contains oxygen.
If you are not aware of the obvious I suggest you do your own research instead of asking others to research well known facts for you.
You are living proof that air contains oxygen.
You do know that? Does it need documentation?

Phylo Se Fizer writes:
"Dennis says that this isn't about partisanship."

Hey Phylo, you do just fine on your own, like Kimberly you don't need my help, but I thought I would chime on this one for fun.

It's not just Prager. They all do it. It goes hand-in-hand with never admitting your wrong. It's indicative of their phsychosis. Bush will never admit he was wrong. I remember laughing hysterically when in the debates Kerry and Bush were asked about three mistakes they had made. Kerry admitted three. Bush said, "This is a trick question, you're just trying to get me to say something bad about myself. If I had to say three mistakes I'd pick three appointments of people who later turned against me." I laughed so hard. To be that insecure and want to be President of the U.S.? The contradiction is too mind boggling not to either laugh or cry.

That tells you everything you need to know about George Bush's level of insecurity. And to think he's President.

It's some kind of God complex masking their insecurity where 1.) they can't admit they are wrong and 2.) can't admit any competing world views exist. If your world view is the only one, in your world view you are never wrong, then why of course everything you say is objective? You are God? The Democratic view just doesn't exist therefore Prager sees himself as God and objective.

Woooo hoooo!

Underage Teenagers
"In my city a principal of a local school was arrested "merely" for sexual innuendo online with underaged teenagers." The operative words here are "underage(d) teenagers". Surely even you now KNOW what the age of "underage(d) teenagers" is in Washington D.C.

Anti-Partisan_Rightly
The biggest problem your Party has is wanting to legalize drugs.
If you were around when drugs were legal, think back to that time and remember how well children were trained to avoid drugs.
Addict? Remember the term "Dope Fiend" and the evil implications? A Drug Pusher in those days would get as close to your child as Dracula!
Children today are just too vulnerable BUT that can be changed.
Think world picture books. Big picture with a little text underneath.
If you could make something like that using morgue photos of gruesome drug deaths, I think it could be used to educate children the way they were in the past so they view a drug pusher as the kind of evil monster he is.
Then it MIGHT be viable to legalize drugs without harming children.
Knowledge is a far better safety device than any kind of mechanical guard.

Wetterling commited electorate suicide
Let her call him every bad name in the book. It will serve two functions:

1) Put a healthy fear of the public in the eyes of other creepy politicians.

2) Help her lose her election. Negative mud slinging only helps when it paints the slinger in a better light, but in this case it just makes her look like a opportunist drama queen.

Kimmy writes:
"truthbetold
How ironic that you would ask me for proof regarding the unlawfulness of sexual predators in Congress and in our schools"!>>>>>

Did not respond to truthbetolds challenge to show her source.


"This, coming from the ideology that sees truth in relative terms - at best - and bends it to fit their mindset". >>>>>

Still hasn't responded to the challenge of truth.

"Wasn't it one of your own who suggested that your's was not a reality based community"? >>>>

And,................still hasn't responded.


"I see Hannity, O'Reilly and Coulter are definitely not given to substantiating their claims, yet not one of you will ask for the proof behind their accusations. When will you ask the right questions of the right people"?>>>

Yet another attempt of diversion and guess what??? Yep, still no response

"And what's even more interesting is that when given proof and links to proof, this same group parses not the message, but the sender".>>>>>

It's because your proof and links are always shot down. (Notice the key word in her last sentence? "WHEN") Still, has not responded.

"As for late night comics, get real. Pathetic as that argument is, the majority of Americans aren't buying this kind of illogic". >>>>>>

Smart Americans are.

"It's all about keeping our kids safe, isn't it? That's what helped get out the vote for Repubs in the last election (more irony). And sexual predators in our government, our churches and our schools are not going to get sympathy because of abuse-of-power driven semantics. Neither are those leaders that covered up for that predator - and cover up, they did. It's just now a matter of proving it, and by hiring Duke Cunningham's lawyer, I'd say that one is sealed up".>>>>>

Ah, Kimmy, Kimmy, Kimmy, Kimmy,Kimmy. Kimmy, Kimmy, Kimmy, Kimmy, Kimmy. Blah,blah,blah,blah,blag................

Still has not responded with the facts about the, "Principal", in "her" city.

Clairvoyant Kimberly
>We all KNOW they covered up

No... we don't Apparently you do, or at least you claim to. If you're wrong does that make you a liar - or would the be stretching the definition of liar? Kind of like stretching the definition of child molester?

Kimberly
The one sided prosecution of Congressional
crime kinda ruffles me too but I see it through
a different glass.
I see Republicans taken from office due to a
technical error by a CLERK and the Senator is
ruined by a POST FACTO rule enacted AFTER the
infraction. I see Abscam John Murtha get a walk.
I see Harry Reed take a $1.1 million dollar bribe
and get a walk. I see a Democrat caught with $90,000 cooling in his freezer get a walk and I see INVENTED, TRUMPTED UP CHARGES (Plame), brought against high ranking Republicans.
AND If you are so concerned about children, aren't you even curious about Nanci Peloci's association with NAMBLA? What has she promised them in exchange for their generous Campaign Contributions? What new law does she plan to "FastTrack" through Congress so they can molest our children?

Anti-Partisan_Rightly;
I know you are not a Duck, we have gone through that before BUT; would you please stop waddling through the tules yelling "QUACK, QUACK" while I am duck hunting?

DavidM
DavidM writes: Tuesday, October, 24, 2006 8:18 AM

>>"APR
*SEXUAL* Molestation is what the issue was."

Read it again, sap.

to make indecent sexual advances to.

to annoy, disturb, or persecute esp. with hostile intent or injurious effect

to make annoying sexual advances to;

harass or assault sexually; make indecent advances to 2: annoy continually or chronically

>>"So you are saying when the hall monitor 'annoys' some kids who are loitering after class has started they should be charged with molestation?"

The dictionaries speak for themselves, chump.

And we're talking about SEXUAL molestation.

>>"Don't be an idiot

Here's your sign.


So let me get this straight
Foley is discovered recently to be making advances towards male pages. Immediately he is criticized by all the republican party. He resigns in disgrace.

Democrats make all the political hay they can from this. Lack of evidence doesn't matter. Past democrats doing much worse and getting a standing ovation doesn't matter. Timing of the release doesn't matter either. Hastert is not a great speaker but there is NO EVIDENCE he saw the IMs before the story broke.

Then Dennis prager calls them on trying to define sexual deviancy according to their political agenda and you people accuse him of selective moral outrage?

What a load of hypocritical trash.



I agree
I agree with Denny's assessment that Patty Wetterling is wrong for doing what she is doing.

Which brings up a lot of interesting topics.

1.) What Democrat pays attention to Dennis Prager?
2.) Why the double standard?
3.) Why do you care?

1.) What Democrats pays attention to Dennis Prager?

Prager is on the record as saying,

"I believe the Left has been wrong on virtually every great moral issue in the last 30 years."
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/DennisPrager/2006/07/25/israels_war_separates_the_decent_left_from_the_indecent_left

Ditto that for Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and every other Right winger. Being wrong morally means being immoral. If you believe the left is wrong on all the great issues, why would the left ever pay attention to anything you have to say? Or vice-versa for that matter. The vitriol of Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Dennis Prager, Laura Ingram, Michael Savage, etc. is so damning of everything the left does then why would any Democrat give any of you Yahoo's! the time of day? While your points are well taken, in order for you, sir, to expect anyone to respect your opinion you'd need to proffer some respect first. Given Dennis Prager and the right has 0 respect for the left then you can only expect the same amount to be given in return.

2.) Why the double standard?

Karl Rove planted a bug in his own office and blamed it on his political opponent. That's a fact. Have you been denouncing Karl Rove? I don't think so. At least Patty has the balls to stand up for what she's done. Rove hides behind others.

This hypocrisy of double standards is bleeding all over this web site. Kevin McCullough wrote a piece whitewashing all liberals with some story about Skinner who got off on a technicality for murdering her baby. Yet on this very web site sits Ollie North. Ollie North, the decorated war veteran turned traitor was convicted and found guilty of crimes against the state. He got off on a technicality just like Skinner and O.J. Simpson. He was granted immunity in exchange for testifying. Here's the real kicker. North was convicted on crimes unrelated to his testimony he was granted immunity too. Only on appeal did the Judges proclaim that the immunity not only covered the crimes he testified to doing, but crimes not in his testimony. Yet, here is good ole Ollie North the criminal holding an esteemed position on TH. Ollie North testified to committing crimes, was found guilty of other crimes and the right wing finds him respectable?

And don't get me started on the Swift Boat Veterans. I guarantee you "Wetterling" will not be entering the venacular, but "Swift Boating" will. The level of lying and smearing reached new heights with "Swift Boating". Every formal military investigation done into Kerry's metals has come out the same, he deserved them. O'Neil is a proven liar. The same crowd that claims "foul play" because 9/11 widows supposedly get some kind of "free pass" because their husbands were killed, give all kinds of "free passes" to the Swift Boat veterans because, taa daa, they are veterans! wooo hooo! A liar's a liar. A crook's a crook. Cunningham, a decorated Vietnam flying ace, is a disgraced criminal. And the Swift Boat veterans were all a bunch of liars. Ollie North is a disgraced criminal.

Mark my words, "Swift Boating" will be in the dictionary shortly has a canonical way to lie and smear under the cover of protection. 9/11 widows, please.

3.) Why do you care?

Seriously, if, as you are on record as saying, you believe liberals are immoral on all the great issues, why do you care if they are immoral on small issues? Makes no sense to me.

But like I said, I agree with your assessment.




Kimberly
By being against abortion--do you mean in ALL cases? Or do you mean in MOST cases?

Prager is insane!
Dennis says that this isn't about partisanship.

Oh my God. This guy is unbelievavble. I listen to his show all the time. He can't see the world except through the eyes of a partisan Republican. Which would be fine if admitted it now and then, But he doesn't. I even called him once to ask him if he thought he was fair to bopth sides and he said he thinks he is!

How he could say that without choking on his words is beyond me. With all of the Republican outrages out there (too many to list) Dennis can't seem to find any time on his show to talk about them, but then he goes nuts over Patty Wetterling's use of the word "molest" (an appropriate use if you go by the dictionary by the way.)

He even said recently on his show, when it was reported that yet another Republican was under investigation, that he doesn't really care much about corruption. Oh but he really cares about stealing, boy that makes him angry. Anybody else see a disconnect here? Any bets as to whether or not he would care if the corruption were coming from the Democrats? (By the way, he did find time on his show to talk about the one Democrat (Jefferson) who is guilty of corruption.)

Yesterday he talked about the BBC investigating itself to determine whether or not their reporting was biased. Dennis gleefully reported that they concluded that they were, indeed, guilty of an overall bias.

But Prager totally missed the underlying irony of what he was saying. At least they are trying to be objective. At least the BBC is willing to do an honest assesment of itself. Prager on the other hand is obviously biased against Democrats, but, incredibly, he thinks he's totally fair and objective. Can anyone imagine Prager doing what the BBC did? Can anyone imagine that he is even capable of such an assesment?

Sorry for the rant. I just can't stand this guy. He's such a phony and a fraud he makes my blood boil.

Phylo out.

sexually molesting
I don't mean to make light of Prager's post, ok I do because I don't believe for an instant he would have written this if the parties of the participants were swithced and selective moral indignation deserves to be mocked, but as technology increases words will be used in contexts in which they have not been used before. It will not always be clear how to extend them, and the Foley case offers examples.
Many people have referred to Foley as a pedophile. This is clearly wrong pedophilia is an interest in prepubescent children and for that reason is distinct from either homosexuality or heterosexuality. (Did I miss an article by Prager attacking the conflation of pedophilia and homosexuality because conflating the two cheapens the seriousness of pedophilia? I am guessing not, but only because I suspect this column is partisan hackery).
On the other hand, contrary to Prager's claims there does not seem to be anything inherent in the notion of molestation that requires physical contact. An adult who talked sexually to a 5 year old to get his own sexual pleasure would seem to count as sexually molesting the child. Or if not, then it would only because we have someone arbitrarily chosen not to extend the word there. There is certainly more hyperbole to using the term in the case of 16 year olds. The psychological damage is not the same as in the 5 year old case. Although within the context of political ads, the Wetterling usage does not seem to be over the top.
The claims in the Wetterling ad are not as dishonest, for example, as claiming there are democratic congressmen who oppose interrogating al qaeda suspects. The Wetterling claims is certainly hyperbolic, and may backfire on her because of it. But it is not the kind of lie that one sees Bush using routinely in characterizing the opposition.

"Cheapens the word 'molest'"
I am a hard line conservative, and as such I have no desire to see Wetterling win re-election.
But in practical terms I am compelled to believe that her ad will reach a hundred or thousand times more eyes and ears than it would have if Prager hadn't published this objection.

Prager's basic complaint is substantially valid, but in terms of actual effect, his own broadcasting of his complaint is more likely to cheapen society's understanding of child "molest[ation]" than Wetterling's ad.

She does what too many politicians do these days. She convicts her opponent without a trial (or even evidence) in the court of public opinon of an 'offense' that is an exaggeration of what really happened. She is typical of what is wrong with too many of our elected officials. She is despicable. But if Prager really doesn't do Congressional races, he should have just left this one alone.

Please keep in mind
that the dems ONLY care about the issue of abortion. There really is NO other issue to them. It is the basis of every other evil thing that they want allowed. If the Pope suddenly said that the church has been wrong for these many years and that abortion is the "right" of every woman--he would be elected president by the dems. From their lack of respect for life can come every other filthy, vile, lascivious behavior that they and the ACLU can think of.
The tide is truly turning on the abortion industry. The Gloria's, Hillary's, Faye's, Ellen's, Rosie's etc. cannot bear the thought that all they have fought and lived for is for naught. Americans are finally getting it. It is scaring the heck out of the left wingers and they, like Kimberly, are fighting to the death--but this time it is their own....not the innocent babies. It's all about abortion to them. Don't underestimate what they are willing to do to keep that death money rolling in.

selmo, you drank to koolaide
Clearly what Foley did was wrong. Just as clearly, Foley is GONE. Unlike the late unlamented Dimocrat Studds who was honored by his party.

We don't yet know whether or not Hastert covered up. Even Fox News confuses the emails, which Hastert DID see with the IMs which he did NOT see until much, much later. The IMs are culpable, the emails, just creepy.

Consider this: Do YOU want the speaker of the house to be able to toss YOUR elected representative out of Congress just because he's creepy? It's just NOT a no-brainer in any event. The responsibility of saying to a congressional sistrict, "I'm sorry, but you elected the wrong person," is not one to be exercised merely on the basis of creepiness.

seriously???
guys, ignore Kimberly... she obviously lacks anything resembling a moral compass. Or she's just a troll trying to stir up a hornet's nest. Either way, we all know she's being disingenuous. She never has anything of worth to add, just generalities and assumptions.

come on!!
why are you attacking unelected democrats?!? we are in this mess of losing the house and possibility the senate because of what our party has devolved into. what foley did is wrong no matter title you hang on him. Why don't you point out what hassert did as wrong or dewine or delay or ney? you not commenting on it only looks like we are hiding criminals and perverts. get with it.

Why the shock?
These are the same people that have redefined racism, homophobia, sexism, and harassment to fit their own political agendas. So why should we be surprised that they would attempt to redefine 'molestng' to fit in with a political strategy. It's just par for the course!

APR
*SEXUAL* Molestation is what the issue was.

So you are saying when the hall monitor 'annoys' some kids who are loitering after class has started they should be charged with molestation?

Don't be an idiot.

bennyboy: Read the ... WHAT? :-)
bennyboy writes: Tuesday, October, 24, 2006 8:00 AM
Again, Poor Kimberly
Yet, she lives on to blog another day. 'Ignorance is bliss 'as the old adage goes. Never was there a better example than what "Kimberly " continues to spew. K, you must be a Cindy Sheehan devotee. You have the same tenor. Crazy.Out of touch with reality. Chauvanistic.(Read the definition)

--------------------------------------------

DEFINITION????

Wipe the drool off your chin.


Fools on parade
hntr admin writes: Tuesday, October, 24, 2006 6:09 AM
YOU ALL FELL RIGHT IN
To Kimberly's trap again. And what a lopsided trap she has, but save your self from the early morning aggravation and just ignore her comments

----------------------------------

pitbull writes: Tuesday, October, 24, 2006 6:26 AM
Kimberly -you are not being truthful

Opinions are welcomed, but dishonest and untrue arguments do nothing except to pollute the conversation and reduce the dialog to partisan nonsense

-----------------------------------------------

"Dangerous" Dave writes: Tuesday, October, 24, 2006 1:09 AM
Kimberly:
Let me be the first to point out you're wrong. The page was not molested, which is what Mr. Prager pointed out. He doesn't want the term "molested" to be cheapened by applying it to innapropriate e-mails.

-----------------------------------------------

Mountain Rose writes: Tuesday, October, 24, 2006 1:27 AM
"Dangerous Dave
Of course you can open every comment to Kimberly the same way: "Let me be the first to point out you're wrong."

--------------------------------------------

Here's your signs.









Again, Poor Kimberly
Yet, she lives on to blog another day. 'Ignorance is bliss 'as the old adage goes. Never was there a better example than what "Kimberly " continues to spew. K, you must be a Cindy Sheehan devotee. You have the same tenor. Crazy.Out of touch with reality. Chauvanistic.(Read the definition)

Conservatives Lie

Right-wing perverts in denial


Mountain Rose writes: Tuesday, October, 24, 2006 1:27 AM
"Dangerous Dave
Of course you can open every comment to Kimberly the same way: "Let me be the first to point out you're wrong."

----------------------------

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
mo?lest /m?'l?st/ Pronunciation Key - Show –verb (used with object)
1. to bother, interfere with, or annoy.
2. to make indecent sexual advances to.
3. to assault sexually.
[Origin: 1325–75; ME molesten < L molestare to irk, deriv. of molestus irksome; cf. moles mass, burden, trouble]

—Synonyms 1. harass, harry, trouble, plague, hector, torment. See attack.

---------------------------------------

mo·lest (m-lst)
1. To disturb, interfere with, or annoy.
2. To subject to unwanted or improper sexual activity.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

---------------------------------
Main Entry: mo·lest
1 : to annoy, disturb, or persecute esp. with hostile intent or injurious effect
2 : to make annoying sexual advances to; specifically : to force physical and usually sexual contact on (as a child) —Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

-----------------------------

molest

v 1: harass or assault sexually; make indecent advances to 2: annoy continually or chronically; "He is known to harry his staff when he is overworked"; "This man harasses his female co-workers" [syn: harass, hassle, harry, chivy, chivvy, chevy, chevvy, beset, plague, provoke]
WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton Universit


This article
shows how a political candidate will obfuscate the facts for their own benefit. We see this across this nation at various (all) levels of the political strata.

Truth? Facts? What are these but words to politicos? When candidates lie to the populace and make every effort to confuse issues....one can be sure it will not stop once elected. This is why I and many others do not trust elected officials, why we'd rather vote for an old yeller dog, and why we end up voting for the person whom we think will do the least damage.

If our forefathers could turn over in their graves the ground would be rumbling beneath us.

"For the children"
It's understandable that Ms. Wetterling would cynically use the defense of children to advance her political fortunes and position.

It has been so effectively used by Democratic candidates and politicians for years now. Why not one more try?

YOU ALL FELL RIGHT IN
To Kimberly's trap again. And what a lopsided trap she has, but save your self from the early morning aggravation and just ignore her comments.

Visit http://www.headsneedtorol.org and post your views, thoughts and opinions.
Heads Need To Roll

truthbetold
Will you ever finish correcting all these papers?

Kimberly
I don't know what law your principal could have broken, because the online anti-porn law that was signed by Clinton has never been enforced because it was too broad to be enforced. It is just now coming up before a Senior US District Judge with the ACLU on the side of the pornsters. Is there a law against free speech in your town?

Snot
Child molestation is evil. No one is saying it isn't, but you are not following the argument here. Wetterling claims that Foley molested children. He did NOT molest children. He wrote nasty e-mails and vulgar disgusting IMs to a 16 year old and several to many 18 year olds. A 16 year old is not a child. In Washington DC, 16 is the age of consent and 16 year olds there can do all the perverted things that Foley may have imagined or dreamed about, but so far no one has said that he actually touched anyone of an age that is against the law. That is why he isn't in jail instead of rehab. We still have freedom of speech (Yes even perverted speech thanks to the ACLU) and I think that also applies to IMs and e-mails. A person 16 can get a driver's license and a 15 year old can get a learners permit. A child is someone who hasn't yet turned 14. In custody cases, 14 year olds can decide who they want to live with after the divorce, but a 13 year old can't because they are still considered a child. That is the whole point of Mr Prager's piece. Foley didn't molest any child. He didn't molest anyone. He wrote filthy IMs and e-mails to young adults and one 16 year old who might have been in Washington DC where he would have been considered an adult. Foley is a pervert and should NOT be in Congress and he is NOT in Congress anymore. He was gone within the hour after the crap hit the fan.

Too Many Words.
Geez, this thing reads more like a legal brief than it does an opinion. Is any base left uncovered?

Sometimes Mr. Prager's rule of CLARITY gets so wordy that it obfuscates the truth -- sort of like lawyers do.

Patty Wetterling does not have the power Mr. Prager grants her. The truth is that she cannot "cheapen" the evil of child molestation, but like most politicians everywhere, she can lie all she wants.

And let's face it, the Democrats deserve her. Maybe even our current kinds of Congress deserve her.

Kimberly
If you give us the FACTS of all your supposed illustrations, we can and will check them out to see whether you are lying or not and that is why you never give any detail. What is the name of the principal and from what school? What is the date of the alleged offense? Did it appear in the newspaper or did you just say it? If it appeared in the newspaper, which one? What is the name of the newspaper. What was the disposition of the case? Has your city arrested Jay Leno or David Letterman or Jimmy Kimmel for "merely" sexual innuendo or does your city have a double standard for Hollywood types? Those guys are always using sexual innuendo and they are certainly not the only ones. You NEVER give us any "facts" that can be checked because you know that we will and that most likely your "facts" will be as bogus as your lame arguments. I agree with Dennis Prager that Wetterling is so low that she has to look up to see down.

Jacob Wetterling
I was a sophomore at Duluth Central High School in Duluth, MN when the abduction happened, about an hour and a half to the northeast. It was all over the news, and truly a tragedy for the area. It's awful that the Wetterlings have absolutely no idea, no closure of what happened to their son. The trail was as cold that day as it is now. Unfortunately, whoever took him knew what they were doing.

Kimberly:
Let me be the first to point out you're wrong. The page was not molested, which is what Mr. Prager pointed out. He doesn't want the term "molested" to be cheapened by applying it to innapropriate e-mails.

Think of it this way, Kimberly. If I call you on the phone, and whisper things into your ear that are sexual in nature, would you call it rape? If you did, I'm sure a whole lot of real rape victims would have words with you.

And Kimberly, every Repub is at least as disgusted with Foley as the Democrats pretend to be. No one is batting for Foley. No Repub is supporting him. But I have to admit that it is nearly as disgusting to see people such as San Fran NAMBLA Nan Pelosi playing politics with this when we all know that she wouldn't be angry with her own next door neighbor is he was a pedophile well beyond what Foley has been found to be. Indeed, Foley is guilty of Democratic behavior.
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