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Tuesday, October 17, 2006
Dennis Prager :: Townhall.com Columnist
Some sobering lessons from Muslim taxi drivers
by Dennis Prager
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Understandably, those troubled by the contemporary Muslim world point to the amount of gratuitous violence emanating from it and the apparent absence of Muslim anger against it.

In response, Muslim defenders of their faith -- and Western defenders such as Karen Armstrong and John Esposito -- inform us that the terror, suicide and cruelty that emanate from a portion of the Muslim world are all aberrations. We are assured that the average Muslim is as appalled as all other decent people are by Muslims who torture, decapitate and blow up innocent people.

Some recent news items from Britain, Australia and the United States, however, suggest that we can make a more accurate assessment of contemporary Islam by looking beyond Islamic terror and beyond the lack of Muslim opposition to it.

I am referring to news reports not about Muslim terrorists but about the far more mundane group of religious Muslims who happen to be taxi drivers. In Britain and Australia, Muslim taxi drivers refuse to pick up passengers who have a dog with them -- even when the passenger is blind and the dog is a Seeing Eye dog. Nearly all religious Muslims believe that Islam forbids them to come into contact with dogs. Therefore, Muslim taxi drivers will even drive by a blind person standing in the cold, lest they come into contact with the dog.

And in Minneapolis, Minn., Muslim taxi drivers, who make up a significant percentage of taxi drivers in that city, refuse to pick up passengers who have a bottle of wine or other alcoholic beverage with them.

This is significant. We are not talking here about Muslim fanatics or Muslim terrorists, but about decent every day Muslims. And what these practices reveal is something virtually unknown in Judeo-Christian societies -- the imposing of one's religious practices on others.

Now, many of those with a graduate degree in the humanities, and others taught how not to think clearly, will object that religious Christians do exactly this sort of thing when they try to impose their religious views on abortion, for example, on society.

But there is no analogy between a Muslim not allowing a non-Muslim to bring a bottle of wine or a dog into a Muslim-driven taxi and Christians trying to convince a democratic society to outlaw most abortions.

There is no comparing ritual prohibitions with moral prohibitions. Christians argue that taking the life of a human fetus where the mother's life is not endangered is immoral. And so do religious Jews (and Muslims) and many secular individuals -- because the issue of abortion is a moral issue. Contact with dogs, on the other hand, is a ritual issue, not a moral issue. Which is why non-Muslims do not consider it immoral -- unlike the many non-Christians who consider most abortions immoral.

And Christians and others who deem abortions immoral when the mother's health is not threatened have as much right to argue for passing laws banning most such abortions as other citizens do to pass laws banning racial discrimination.

Ah, the skeptic may argue, but what if Muslims deem human contact with a dog (except, according to Muslim jurists, for security purposes, farming and hunting) an immoral act, not just a ritually prohibited act for Muslims?

If indeed such were the Muslim argument, we would have an example of an unbridgeable difference between a Muslim conception of morality and that of non-Muslims.

There is then no analogy between Christians wanting to use the democratic process to ban a practice regarded by hundreds of millions of non-Christians as immoral and the Muslim ban on human contact with dogs, a practice regarded by no non-Muslims as immoral.

The appropriate analogy to Muslim taxi drivers refusing to take passengers accompanied by a dog or carrying a bottle of wine would be religious Jewish taxi drivers refusing to take passengers eating a ham sandwich or Mormon drivers refusing to take passengers drinking alcoholic or caffeinated drinks.

But such Jewish or Mormon examples don't exist (and if they did, religious Jews and Mormons would regard such persons as crackpots). They do not exist because Jews and Mormons do not believe that non-Jews are required to change their behavior owing to Judaism's or Mormonism's distinctive laws. Religious Muslims, on the other hand, do believe that wherever applicable, non-Muslims should change their behavior in the light of Islam's distinctive laws. And that difference is at least as important to Muslim-non-Muslim relations as the vexing issue of violent Muslims.

As for the difference between fundamentalist Muslims and fundamentalist Christians, a Christian mailman in Denver called my radio show to say that despite his profound religious objections to pornography, he could not imagine objecting to delivering even the raunchiest porn to homes that ordered it. First, religious non-Muslims, especially in America, believe that liberty, too, is a religious value; that is why Christians put a quote about liberty from the Torah on the Liberty Bell. And second, they have no doctrine that holds outsiders bound to their religious practices.

And that is why there may be more to be learned about the future of religious Muslims' relations with non-Muslims from Muslim taxi drivers than from Muslim terrorists.

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About The Author
Dennis Prager is a radio show host, contributing columnist for Townhall.com, and author of 4 books including Happiness Is a Serious Problem: A Human Nature Repair Manual.
 
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Sounds to me a reason to...
...unleash the "Dogs of War."

Dhimmitude...
is what those 'whackos' want from us. I propose we write, e-mail and phone to protest any cab company that allows employees or contractors to do this.

JimmyC: Amen, bro.
.

Celt, how ya doing?
Long time, no see.

Moslem Taxi Drivers
It is interesting that so many liberals want to allow a devout Moslem taxi driver to refuse to serve a customer carrying liquor or attended by a seeing-eye dog with no penalty. (At the Minneapolis-St.Paul Airport, cab drivers refusing a fare now have to go to the end of the cab line. This requires a wait for another fare that could be the best part of an hour.)
Where are those same liberals when it comes to protecting the right of a devout, Christian, pharmacist to refuse to dispense "morning after pills" or birth control materials? We hear that these people should be fired, loose their license, and be forbidden to work at their chosen profession.
What is the difference between the cab driver and the pharmacist that allows such disparate treatment?

Gene: Good point
Better still, remember when Danny Glover was whining about having a hard time getting a cab because he was black?

Of course, none of us are really expecting liberal consistency on the issue, are we?

It just occurred to me. When I was married, and my wife would change her mind about things constantly, she always called it "a woman's prerogative".

Could that be why liberalism is so wussy? It's a fem-based outlook?

Something to ponder.

BrianR
I was gonna say it's an emotional-based outlook, but we're saying the same thing.

Of course, in order to avoid muslim taxi drivers now, we'll have to avoid anyone darker than the background of this webpage.

Not sobering enough

In K town, almost all businesses have signs in Korean only. Why? They don't want the non-K trade walking in, especially they don't want the other ethnic group, the Hispanics with whom the Koreans share the 'hood.

The Hispanic business owners in many parts of many cities in this country exclude the non-spanish speaking in the same manner, and some national retail outlets hire "bilingual" clerks who either can't or won't understand English.

The muslim taxi drivers are likely simple people, for whom the dog and alcohol taboos have become after years of daily drilling part of their culture, like eating sheep eye balls for lunch. Of course, they should not be allowed to impose their culture on others and thus discriminate against certain groups while they practice their trade for the public at large.

But the "victims" of such discrimination are infinitesimal in number compared to the millions - in fact all of us non-hispanics, non-koreans, non-whatever - whom these exclussivist ethnic businesses refuse to even acknowledge, and if you venture inside you are attended by someone with no English at all.

Dennis's article is likewise infinitesimally small in scope and very badly argued. Prager is as painful to read of late as Bill Buckley, two of the luminaries whose lumens are dimming under our dismayed eyes.








Muslim immigrants
I think we could legitimately end and ALL immigration from muslim countries on an economic / job classification basis: We have all the cab drivers we need!

Oops! proofreaditis!
That should have read:

I think we could legitimately end ALL immigration from muslim countries on an economic / job classification basis: We have all the cab drivers we need!

Why not end all Muslim immigration now?
Since Muslim countries would still be in the 7th century if it were not for Western technology, what skills do these barely educated savages have to offer us? Can anyone name one thing of value to come out of an Islamic culture? OK, they are pretty good at making sharp swords and car bombs, if you consider those things valuable...

So Muslims cause abortions???
In K town, almost all businesses have signs in Korean only. Why?

They want people who speak Korean to come in.

Can anyone name one thing of value to come out of an Islamic culture?

zero

The appropriate analogy to Muslim taxi drivers refusing to take passengers accompanied by a dog or carrying a bottle of wine would be religious Jewish taxi drivers refusing to take passengers eating a ham sandwich or Mormon drivers refusing to take passengers drinking alcoholic or caffeinated drinks.

Or if Mormons forced everyone in a state of the Union to live by very rigid laws regarding the sale of alcohol

Could that be why liberalism is so wussy? It's a fem-based outlook?

You've never seen *Aliens* have you?

I agree.
Troglodyte is correct. Until we figure out exactly where these Muslim immigrants stand on obeying OUR laws and customs, not a single Muslim should be allowed into this country. To take it a step farther, every one of those cab drivers should be deported. That would be a start.


It seems obvious that many illegal immigrants, and some legal Muslim immigrants have a very bizarre notion about their cultural practices superceding our own. What is up with that? Are they crazy?


What really ticks me off is that these people would not tolerate an American in their country demanding that our customs be accepted by them, regardless of how offensive they might be. Imagine going into a Muslim country that operates under shiria law and demanding that restaurants serve roast pork. How about demanding that our troops in Iraq be allowed to drink alcohol, or that the women take off those veils so we can get a look at them?


It is perfectly safe to imagine these things, but don't try them. What could these people be thinking when they demand that we change for them? There are no words to express how insane that concept really is. The arrogance is incredible.


We better do something to nip this crap in the bud right now. I am serious about deporting those nutty Muslim cab drivers. Every incident that involves immigrants demanding that Americans subjugate American custom to their's should be tossed out of this country.


In some European countries police can't even go into Muslim neighborhoods without being attacked. The Muslims proclaim Islamic law is practiced where they live. They no longer recognize the law of contries they have infiltrated. If we don't want it to happen here, we had better act now.


First of all, George Bush needs to bar the head of CAIR from the White House. Every politician in Washington, DC has to be bombarded with demands that they get these Islamists either under control, or preferably on the way back to where they came from. The same goes for the illegal Mexicans who demand that they be given free health care and a free education in Spanish.


Lesson
I think the important lesson here is that cab drivers should never pick up Danny Glover.

Plan B
What's so terrible about private taxi drivers trying to live up to their religious precepts? Be glad to live in the land of freedom where people are free to exercise their religion as they are doing. The inconvenience of being refused a ride by a driver is a small price to pay, compared to the thousands who have given their lives to protect such freedoms.

And you're playing into the hands of the leftwing totalitarians who want to deny pharmacists and doctors the ability to choose not to sell or prescribe abortificients. If we want pharmacists and doctors to have the freedom to follow their conscience, we had better allow private cab drivers to do the same.

Imposing Reliigous Ideas
Mr. Prager says it is "virtually unknown" in the Judeo-Christian world to impose religious practice on others. Well there WERE those little matters of the Crusades and the Inquisition..........

SCUBA STEVE
Are you the same Scuba Steve that used to work at Guitar Center?

Roozie, how clueless are you?
Are you saying Europe should NOT have responded to 430 years of islamic wars and land grabs, millions of lives lost to those same wars and islamic-run slavery?

Have you ever even Bothered to find out just exactly what the Crusades were really about?

'After the death of the Islamic prophet Muhammad in 632, Muslim armies swept out of Arabia and, under the banner of jihad, conquered the lands that now form the heart of the Islamic world. In the Holy Land, the conquest of Jerusalem in 638 stood at the beginning of centuries of Muslim aggression; Christians in the Holy Land faced an escalating spiral of persecution. A few examples: early in the eighth century sixty Christian pilgrims from Amorium were crucified; around the same time the Muslim governor of Caesaria seized a group of pilgrims from Iconium and had them all executed as spies — except for a small number who converted to Islam. Muslims demanded money from pilgrims, threatening to ransack the Church of the Resurrection if they didn’t pay. Later in the eighth century, a Muslim ruler banned displays of the cross in Jerusalem. He also increased the special poll tax (jizya) that Christians had to pay (Muslims were exempt) as ordained by Qur’an 9:29, and forbade Christians to engage in religious instruction of their own children and fellow-believers.
Brutal subordination and violence became the rule of the day for Christians in the Holy Land. In 772, the caliph al-Mansur ordered Christians and Jews in Jerusalem to be stamped on their hands with a distinctive symbol. Conversions to Christianity were dealt with particularly harshly. In 789, Muslims beheaded a monk who had converted from Islam and plundered the Bethlehem monastery of St. Theodosius, killing many more monks. Other monasteries in the region suffered the same fate. Early in the ninth century the persecutions grew so severe that large numbers of Christians fled for Constantinople and other Christian cities. Fresh persecutions in 923 saw more churches destroyed, and in 937, Muslims went on a rampage in Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, plundering and destroying the Church of Calvary and the Church of the Resurrection.[2]
After a period of Byzantine resurgence, in 1004, the sixth Fatimid Caliph, Abu ‘Ali al-Mansur al-Hakim (985-1021) turned violently against the faith of his Christian mother and uncles (two of whom were Patriarchs) and ordered the destruction of churches, the burning of crosses, and the seizure of church property. He moved against the Jews with similar ferocity. Over the next ten years thirty thousand churches were destroyed, and untold numbers of Christians converted to Islam simply to save their lives. In 1009, al-Hakim gave his most spectacular anti-Christian order: he commanded that the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem be destroyed, along with several other churches (including the Church of the Resurrection). The Church of the Holy Sepulcher, rebuilt by the Byzantines in the seventh century after the Persians burned an earlier version, marks the traditional site of Christ’s burial. Bizarrely, the church had served as the model for the Al-Aqsa Mosque. The Caliph al-Hakim commanded that the tomb inside be cut down to the bedrock. He ordered Christians to wear heavy crosses around their necks (and Jews heavy blocks of wood in the shape of a calf). He piled on other humiliating decrees, culminating in the order that they accept Islam or leave his dominions.[3]
The erratic caliph ultimately relaxed his persecution and even returned much of the property he had seized from the Church.[4] Some of al-Hakim’s changed attitude probably came from his increasingly tenuous connection to Islamic orthodoxy. In 1021, he disappeared under mysterious circumstances; some of his followers proclaimed him divine and founded a sect based on this mystery and other esoteric teachings of a Muslim cleric, Muhammad ibn Isma’il al-Darazi (after whom the Druze sect is named).[5] Thanks to al-Hakim’s change of policy, which continued after his death, in 1027 the Byzantines were allowed to rebuild the Church of the Holy Sepulcher.[6]
Nevertheless, Christians were in a precarious position and pilgrims remained under threat. In 1056, the Muslims expelled three hundred Christians from Jerusalem and forbade European Christians from entering the Church of the Holy Sepulcher.[7] When the fierce and fanatical Seljuk Turks swept down from Central Asia, they enforced a new Islamic rigor making life increasingly difficult for both native Christians and pilgrims (whose pilgrimages they blocked). After they crushed the Byzantines at Manzikert in 1071 and took the Byzantine Emperor Romanus IV Diogenes prisoner, all of Asia Minor was open to them — and their advance was virtually unstoppable. In 1076, they conquered Syria; in 1077, Jerusalem. The Seljuk Emir Atsiz bin Uwaq promised not to harm the inhabitants of Jerusalem, but once his men had entered the city, they murdered 3,000 people.[8] The same year the Seljuks established the sultanate of Rum (Rome, referring to the New Rome, Constantinople) in Nicaea, perilously close to Constantinople itself; from here they continued to threaten the Byzantines and harass the Christians all over their new domains.
The Christian Empire of Byzantium, which before Islam’s wars of conquest had ruled over a vast expanse including southern Italy, North Africa, the Middle East, and Arabia, was reduced to little more than Greece. It looked as if its death at the hands of the Seljuks was imminent. The Church of Constantinople considered the pope a schismatic and had squabbled with him for centuries, but the new Emperor Alexius I Comnenus (1081-1118), swallowed his pride and appealed for help. And that is how the First Crusade came about: it was a response to the Byzantine Emperor’s call for help. The Crusaders were responding to the emperor dialing 911.'

Now, roozie, buy a clue.

What problem?
ok, so muslim taxi drivers don't want to be anywhere near alcholol or dogs.

I can sympathise with that. I'm asthmatic; even having a smoker's leather JACKET in the same car as me would cause problems. If for some bizzarre reason I were to become a taxi driver, I would have to arrange to avoid smokers, in all forms, if at all possible. If such an option were not available to taxi drivers, i would not be able to do the duties as such.

ASSUMING that the muslim taxi drivers do not have contractual obligations MANDATING that they pick up seeing eye dogs or bottles of wine, and were honest about the conditions of their employment, I see no problem with their declining to pick up certain passengers. they might even form a trade union around the concept.

on the other hand, if they feel that they are morally justified in ignoring contracts which bother them, while still representing themselves as willing to comply with such contracts...

THEN we have a problem. But the problem isn't neccessarily one of religion, it's a problem of agreements made in bad faith. the question of why they feel that is acceptable could have a thousand causes.


Continuing
footnote:

"If such an option were not available to taxi drivers, i would not be able to do the duties as such."

by this i mean that i could not, in good conciense, become a taxi driver, not that i would feel justified in misrepresenting myself.

Krenn
They also refuse to pick up Jews. I am surprised that wasn't mentioned in the article. Now we're into Discrimination, if we were not before, eh?

The Sunnah
Moslems are taught to follow the example of how Muhammad lived his life from the Haddiths. Muhammad did not like dogs. He also was a slave trader, slave owner, torturer, rapist, thief, and mass murderer. It is time that the West wakes up to the threat of orthodox Islam.

Why Democracies Perish
We do not have the moral courage to officially acknowledge the simple fact that Islam and its many prescriptions for daily living, and representative democracy are incompatible, and that the one will eventually triumph over the other.

Nor the courage to do what must be done to avoid the coming clash of civilizations.

It's illegal
This discussion came up the other day at a Canadian chat board I frequent, in regard to a couple of times that various Homosexuals forced Christians to do business with them, and actually forced a Mayor to read a Gay Pride Week proclamation -- they refused his compromise option to have another member of the staff or government read it, because it was all about forcing HIM to go against his conscience. In the same way a pair of ladies who ran a B&B were forced to rent to practicing homosexuals and actually closed down their business rather than go against their religious beliefs; and a printing business spent $400,000 fighting against a pair of homosexuals intent on forcing him to print materials that went against his religious beliefs. During this discussion a Canadian or two stated that if a private business refused to do business with them FOR ANY REASON ("if you won't serve cowboys" was one example given), they felt entirely justified in firebombing that business.

I can see the religious war that is hotting up here in this totally disorganized place that tries to call itself a country. I anticipate that when the government starts forcing us to give in to Muslim demands while at the same time forbidding us to enforce our Christian beliefs, the answer will be firebombs and guns. Keep an eye on us to see how it plays out.

Taxi Drivers
Test

EUREKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have been trying to get back on this site for FOUR months! I must have registered about five times.Nothing worked.Today it works! Go figure.

Taxi Drivers, Immigration and Abortion
We have and continue to slaughter millions of our next generations while people such as the muslims or the people that inhabit Kiryas Joel in Monroe, NY (the only government sponsored RELIGIOUS school district in New York State) are using their numbers to attain their goals whatever they maybe.

China, and India have the numbers to dominate us in economic terms not just for business but the consumer numbers and work pool force as well.

So yes through the wests 1-2 child philosophy to 'save-the-planet' and our abortion mills we will lose.

The West has lost its backbone to say the least.

And I might add to Otter's post
That the eight Crusades were not all military operations, nor were they all against the Islamic world. The military Crusades against the Islamic invasions were the 1st (1096-1099 AD), 2nd (1147-1159 AD), 3rd (1188-1192 AD), 4th (1202-1204 AD), 5th (1217-1221 AD), and 7th (1248-1254 AD). The final 8th Crusade (1270 AD) was a "cleanup" operation against the Sultan of Tunis, who had previously agreed to stop persecuting local Christians and Jews, and had broken the agreement almost as soon as the deputation from Rome had set sail for Italy again. (They went by ship because Spain was still in hostile [Muslim] hands, and would be for another 150 years.) The 6th "Crusade" was in fact a diplomatic mission from the Papal states to the Caliphate (1228-1229 AD), sent in hopes of bringing an end to the conflicts by peaceful means. They returned to Rome with an ultimatum from the Caliphate; submit or die. (The Christians had another idea; like Heather Alexander's ballad, "March of Cambreadth", they decided to see, "How Many Of Them Can We Make Die.") Then of course there was the infamous "Children's Crusade", in which Christian children, led by Christian monks, marched unarmed, and often without supplies, to the Holy Land to appeal for peace. Many died along the way; many more were killed or enslaved by the Muslims. None survived to return to Europe.
The Albigensian Crusade, which was an attempt to stamp out "heresy" in France, was neither authorized by the Vatican or carried out against Muslims. Rather, it was either (a) an early attempt to repress the Hugeunots or (b) an attempt to suppress a rather nasty "millenialist" cult within the French Catholic Church, depending on which version you believe. Either way, it had nothing to do with the main Crusades, which were a combination of attempts to free previously Christian lands and peoples from Islamic occupation, and later on strategic "spoiling attacks" in an effort to force the Islamic armies to divert men and materiel' from their invasions of Europe. Either way, to argue that "the Crusades" justify the depredations of the Islamic movement, then or now, is like arguing that World War Two caused World War One. As the old saying goes, you're putting the cart before the horse.

cheers

eon

Taskwazen sez...
"Moslems are taught to follow the example of how Muhammad lived his life from the Haddiths. Muhammad did not like dogs. He also was a slave trader, slave owner, torturer, rapist, thief, and mass murderer. It is time that the West wakes up to the threat of orthodox Islam."

So I guess it would be ok for them to pick up 9 year old girls.

It is time to get serious
This is more than a taxi driver problem. It is the tip of the iceberg. It demonstrates the implacability of Islam. How can anyone with perception not understand that any true Muslim will defend and shelter and assist Islamist jihadists and terrorists while claming to be non combatant.
That is what is happening in Iraq right now. Our troops are betrayed by those who are supposed to be fighting with them.

There is no conciliation with Islam and our western civilization. Islam destroyed every civilization it invaded because it is a murderers creed devoted to justification for murder, theft and superiority of men over women

RE:Some lessons from muslim taxi driver
The only reason to have anything to do with any muslim is to determine if they are either a terrorist or a terrorist sympathiser...they are or will be one or the other. The dog and booze examples are but two; here's another: it is forbidden to refuse aid and comfort to a fellow muslim engaged in jihad. Read it and weep, not one muslim on earth will ever put America before their jihadist brothers.

How about this: they don't like our dogs? They don't like our drinking habits? Let them move, but above all, never, ever trust one of them. Their koran also teaches that they should associate with non-muslims only for the purpose of eventually subduing them, and furthermore, the koran teaches that it's recommended to lie and deceive non-muslims to protect the faith.

No person who believes such teachings can ever be trusted in any circumstance.

I say never spend a dime with those people. Never show them respect. None of them deserve it. Covert them, you say? Let the clergy worry about that, and remember, these people ALL believe it's fine to lie about anything to keep their enemies unaware.

facts
Could Mr Prager please provide some evidence that muslim taxi drivers in Britain refuse to pick up seeing-eye dogs. While i'm sure some of them refuse to pick up dogs, because of stupid religous beliefs , hygine resons or just out of pure meanness, i feel i have to point out that the majority carry out there dutys very professionally. Also what is Mr Prager views of non-muslim drivers refusing to take dogs, young children(which happened to me), drunk people etc. Something tells me that Prager has very limited contact with british musim taxi drivers

Gene
You wrote: "What is the difference between the cab driver and the pharmacist that allows such disparate treatment?"

In Britian, we're about to see how that plays out. A Muslim pharmacist recently refused to fill the morning-after pill for a woman, who is outraged.

Watch the PC-left twist itself into pretzels trying to explain away why it's okay for a Muslim to do this, but not a Christian.

As for the seeing eye dogs, we have something in America called the "Americans with Disabilities Act", and I'm almost certain their refusal to allow BLIND people with assistance dogs into cabs violates that law.

Mark my words, in the next five-ten years, Muslim cab drivers will demand that women in cabs be veiled, and impose other shari'a laws on us and the left will turn a blind eye to it.

Well Otter...

That's about as complete, fair and balanced description of the run up to the crusades as I have ever seen. You should have reserved your personal comments about Rozie, they do nothing to enhance your argument. You did leave out a description of the conduct of the Christian troops during the crusades. There were, as in all wars, some excesses. By modern standards the crusaders were viscous and brutal, but by 11th and 12th century standards there were only somewhat excessively brutal or viscous.
You did not address the inquisition. Modern commentators like to mis-characterize these events in an effort to defame the Roman Catholic Church. The church launched the inquisition to take control of the tortures and executions being performed by secular authorities in the name of the church. The processes and penalties issued by the church were quite benevolent compared the methods and penalties used by the secular authorities of the day. The Spanish inquisition was, however, quite a horrendous thing. It was, however, a reaction to the results of the violent techniques of the earlier Moslem invaders of the region. The Spanish inquisition was a (successful) attempt to root out all remnants of the Moslem invaders. The Spanish inquisition of course went further, by modern standards too far, and rooted out Jews and "heretics" as well. The Spanish inquisition could be characterized as benevolent compared the actions of the Moslem invaders.
It is quite convenient for the detractors of Christianity to attempt to judge all Christians by the actions of Christians, or those who claimed to be Christians, during Christianity's darkest hour. To be true to this standard one must judge modern "liberals" by the worst abuses of communist china or soviet Russia or Nazi Germany (yes, much as modern "progressives" would like to demur, Hitler ran on a progressive platform). And democrats must be adjudged staunch supporters of slavery.

Spunge
go to the blog entries of last week for Mary Katherine Ham and others who talked about the seeing-eye dog issues in England and Australia. Newspapers in both countries have been talking about it. Substantial fines have been imposed in England for this behavior.

mystic 7
The "Prophet" did it. Did you ever hear about the (sex) slave markets in Saudi Arabia? The liberal media will not print thr truth about Islam.

Muslims and dogs
The refusal of Muslim taxi drivers to carry dogs in their cab is a surprise to me. I went to college in the USA - in Washington, DC - where one of my schoolmates was the son of the Grand Mullah of Mecca. Since then this former schoolmate of mine has come to Brazil, as the representative of the World Muslim Council (or something like it). He lives in a big house, and has three dogs to guard his property. I have never seen him make objections to dogs. No doubt Muhammad did not like dogs, but that was his problmem. I believe "whackos", as someone has called them, exist in any religion, and these cab drivers are acting like whackos.

celtic dragon
I am not denying that such practices take place and totally support strong penilties for such actions( they should have their taxi licence revoked)i just feel it is extremly unfair to target muslim taxi drivers as there are plenty of homegrown taxi drivers that a just as reprehensible.
Also there is an interesting debate currently underway in England after a Muslim woman was asked to remove her veil while teaching her classes(seems like common sense to me). I always try to give muslims the benifit of the doubt, but after hearing some of their leaders comment on the issue i find it harder and harder to be tolerant of such stupidity

RE:LYDIA/ mussie drivers
You go, Lydia! Dogs everywhere. Whatever it takes. I wish it were as simple as that, though.
If mussies will kill their own kids just to get attention, imagine what they are willing to do to your dog.
That reminds me, they also have a koranic rule thta says if a muslim man has sex with his livestock, and I guess that would include a dog, then he can't sell it his home town. So look out for musssie strangers selling dogs.

Muslim business
I refuse to do business with all Muslims for two reasons: I don't like them, any of them. I've never heard one condemn the violence. But, more importantly, I don't know if they are terrorists or not, and I figure, why take the chance. Around here (VA and NC) a lot of Muslims own convenience stores. It would be easy for them, on a pre-arranged day, to slip a little anthrax into their goods. Before we could figure out what happened, 9/11 would look like child's play and the economy would be a wreck. I hate Muslims.

RE:LYDIA/ mussie drivers
KRENN WROTE:
"THEN we have a problem. But the problem isn't neccessarily one of religion, it's a problem of agreements made in bad faith. the question of why they feel that is acceptable could have a thousand causes. "
I agree. And with muslims, they all deal in bad faith, because their bottom line is this: 'When the jihadis, whom I am forbidden by allah to resist, finally take over, I'll join them to enslave you and your kids, just to save my own butt, if nothing else.

Muslims and Dogs
Ah, an Achilles heel...so unleashing (no pun intended) the Dogs of War upon the Muslim radicals would be appropriate! Let's set all the stray dogs from around the world (and throw in a few pigs for maximum effect) onto our Muslim enemies and see how they fare!
We'll call them bomb0sniffing detectors and rout out the fanatics from their hidey-holes. Let's start in the mountains of Tora Bora!

The bottom line
These discussions are interesting and learned. But in evaluating the invasion of Muslim culture into Western culture, the bottom line is merely to look at what it is like in a Muslim country. With oil money and with totally homogenous religious participation, Muslims have exactly the culture they desire. Just look at it. Slavery still exists. A woman raped is murdered by her family to "preserve honor". Representative gov't is unknown and apparently unwanted. This is the "peace" (as described by Khokar) they want to spread, the peace of no dissent. Since violence is their chosen tool, we have no option if we wish to survive. Force always wins. When force is initiated, only superior force prevails.

SekhmetSatRa - Islam hates dogs
Where is the outrage of PETA?

Islamic Cab Drivers
Personally, I support the right of the Muslim Cab Drivers to discriminate. For if I were a cab driver, and had the right to choose, I'd pick the dog.

Reading material recommendations
Books just out and essential to read: Mark Steyn's "America Alone" and Robert Spencer's "The Truth about Mo - Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion". Londonistan by Melanie Phillips is good, too.

Spencer itemizes in his last chapter thigns the US should do to fight islamification - including a ban on immigration from muslim countries. He uses the koran, haddith and suna to argue his cases - basically using their own words against them. It's magnificent.

Steyn uses his wit (not as ascerbic as Ann's, but you do get a few belly laughs) to get his poitns across in re demographics and how the muslims have pretty much won in Eurabia by reproducing while the natives have not...eye opening stuff.

Laura Root

Like it or not . . .
this is a dog-loving Christian nation with dog-loving Christian values.

Muslims need not apply. Go away. Take your camels with you.

Even more complicated . . . .
Here's an account of the motivating belief by former ambassador Richard Carlson, from the following link: http://politicalmavens.com/index.php/2006/10/13/dogs-and-islam-2/

* * *

"According to Islamic “hadith” (a “hadith” is a reliably reported account of what the prophet Mohammed said or did), “whoever keeps a dog” will lose one measure of the reward his good deeds have earned him in heaven for every day until he gets rid of that dog. . . .

"The only exceptions allowed are dogs for hunting and guarding cattle and they are only to be kept out doors.

"One hadith says that all black dogs shall be killed. 'The black dog is evil.'

"Another hadith says: 'Angels of mercy will not enter a house where there is a dog.'

"This is the story from the Koran:

"Gabriel made a promise to Allah’s messenger to come to a woman’s house, but he did not appear. There was a staff in the hand of the messenger when he found out that Gabriel had broken the promise. He threw it down. He said: “Never has Allah or his messenger ever broken their promise.' Then he cast a glance, by chance, and found a puppy under a bed. He asked the woman who owned the house, when did this dog enter here? She said she didn’t know.

"He then commanded that the puppy be thrown out of the house. Gabriel came and Allah’s messenger said to him: 'You promised me and I waited for you but you didn’t come.' Gabriel said, ‘it was the dog in the house which prevented me. We angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture.’

“The very next morning he commanded the dogs to be killed. He announced that the dog kept for the orchards should also be killed, but he spared the dog used for protection of extensive fields.

"Another hadith favored by fundamentalist clerics is: 'Were dogs not a species of creature I should command they all be killed, but kill every black one. The black dog is a devil.'

"Some clerics preach that for a Muslim to keep 'Shaytaan,' the devil, out of his home, he must ban not only dogs, but pictures, music, bells and crosses ('this symbol — the cross — shows that {Christians} are a group who do not think with their minds but have been deceived by Shaytaan,' is a popular view said a cleric.)"

* * *

So there you have it. It's not just a ritual, but a bizarre belief which, like much else in Islam, is tied to compulsion, fear and violence.

Recommended reading:
"Because They Hate" by Bridgett Gabriel.

One woman's witnessed account about how her native 1970's Lebanon was just like America today; proud of their multiculturalism, progressive, and about a 50/50 mix of Christian and muslim residents. Then the muslims went on jihad, destroyed the country, and turned it into the violent cess pool it is today.

Her warning to America since 9/11; "Now they are here".

Nam65-66
Welcome back! I was wondering what happened to one of the most prolific members.

Organic Competition
We are in the position of an organism under stress and attack by a competing organism. *SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT* My blog today is about this very thing. Click on my name and drop by.

Thank You,California.
If I was a cab driver,I wouldn't pick up a Muslim with a seeing-eye camel,either.

Just a thought
Why don't we bring a black lab to Club Gitmo and have him/her in the interrogation room with the terrorist for questioning? We could threaten the terrorist by letting him know that if he doesn't come clean and tell us everything he knows, we will turn the dog loose and let the dog lick his face!! I know. I know. That would be torture and against the Geneva Conventions.

Subliminal
Dear Dennis.
Some say. “We are assured that the average Muslim is as appalled as all other decent people are by Muslims who torture, decapitate and blow up innocent people.” However, the silence is deafening. Moreover, that baloney does not slice.
Here is my most intuitive analogy. Belief is learned. The item learned during early life is compared to many other physical, spiritual and sanctuary safe alternatives. In closed cities like Mecca and Medina, where non-Muslims are under the law of death by entry, the learning is refined.
Belief and physical habit is cumulative and a safe personal sanctuary becomes a subliminal home. This combination is mentally fixed and is the person’s very private property, which may not be dislodged once it is accepted as very personal. It becomes their personal banner of liberty. A liberty, once felt, will not leave the mind. It becomes true but subliminal freedom to the individual.
Becoming addicted to this subliminal freedom inspired by any source is the one tangible liberty no one can remove….as in smoking. The addicted and most others will not comprehend this personal liberty.
Jordan Alexander Orosz, The Old Sailor, San Diego Ca.

Demolay, Jane
Demolay
I never thought of Lebanon that way, but i see its true. Its true that a very few armed thugs willing to kill indiscriminatley can dominate 200 times their own number. That was the ratio of Taliban in Afghanistan. Firearms in the hands of Brianr, Hockey Goon and likeminded Americans form a real and formidable lineof defense against the goons.
Jane
What a super great idea. Or maybe just let a pig live in a cage for a few days, and then put the prisoner in. No contact need take place. At the very least it would keep the ragheads busy trying to scrub the floor.

Krenn writes: What problem?
Krenn writes: What problem?
“OK, so Muslim taxi drivers don't want to be anywhere near alcohol or dogs. I can sympathize with that. I'm asthmatic....I see no problem with their declining to pick up certain passengers.”
Why do I have that gut feeling that while you support those followers "the religion of peace" in following their beliefs, you demand your rights to eat in a non-smoking restaurant or bar because of your condition? What about the owner’s rights to do what they want with their independent businesses? Oh, that’s right when its your ox getting gored, it’s a different story :-(
Does the word HYPOCRTIE ring a bell? Taxi! Taxi! …..

02000
How do you feel about the civil rights sit ins in restaurants that refused to serve blacks prior to the sixties? Its a reasonable subject for discussion. The right of private association limits the obligation to serve the public. A discussion of where the line is drawn need not involve accusations of hypocrisy.

If Muslims Cannot be Assimilated......
to Western culture, then are our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan futile?

One could conclude by the comments here that the only solution to the "Muslim Problem" is their forcible removal from the West at a minimum. At a maximum, we would have to fight a war of extermination.

SO MOST OF US AGREE
We want these diaper headed Muslim wackos that are already here shipped back home and we want to make sure that government policies see to it that they are no longer allowed to enter our country in the first place.... So, what is the solution? As has been mentioned numerous times above, the Muslims that are already here contribute nothing to the American society, they refuse to accept our culture and they all stink (i just had to get that one in) Again, what is the solution? And how do we get the nutcases in Washington to realize that Muslims are dirt bags and they all need to be shipped back to where they came from.

Visit http://www.headsneedtoroll.org and post your views, thoughts and opinions.
Heads Need To Roll

This is A Non-Issue
In a free-market economy, cab drivers who refuse certain fares will eventually fail. Especially cab drivers who won't pick up drunk people! This example of Muslim intolerance is self-defeating, because it illustrates that Muslim immigrants weaken themselves. They are therefore LESS fearsome.

Now it makes sense
I was wondering why they used a dog in Abu ghraib. Now I know-- didn't know about the Muslim thing about dogs. Makes perfect sense now. Wasn't it a black dog? Maybe those guards were onto something after all.

Non issue?
Piker,
I believe the minneapolis(sp) city counsel is allowing the cabbies to do this, and muslims make up 60% of the taxi's in town.

That IS an issue.

11b

JimmyJim: LOL
Good reminder! Yes, I have seen the Alien series, and think Ripley is my kind of babe. Gotta love a gal with a gun!

Just goes to show there are exceptions to every rule. But thanks for strirring up fond memories.

war
Joisey,
"At a maximum, we would have to fight a war of extermination."

If the western societies do not do something drastic w/in the next decade this war may take place. I think how bad it is will depend on how many human beings are forced to convert.

11b

Joisey
Good comment. There is wiggle room for two valid points: 1. Our goals in iraq are worthwhile. 2. Muslims can not be assimilated in the US of A.
We want a non-threatening Muslim nation in Iraq. Turkey is a Muslim ally. The possibility that Iraq could be also exists.
Muslims cannot be assimilated in the US and remain Muslims as say Iran defines a Muslim. It is already acknowleged that American Catholics and Jews are much different from Catholics in Spain and Jews in Israel. It is possible, expecially with restrictions on further Muslim immigration, that the opportunity and freedom of America would wean future generations of Muslims away from the non-American aspects of the religion.

Dennis is wrong
Mr. Prager writes:
And what these practices reveal is something virtually unknown in Judeo-Christian societies -- the imposing of one's religious practices on others.

No.
These practices are regarding the conduct of business within the context of the businessperson's religious and ethical ideals.

It is the same reason why some movie theater owners will not show Friday the 13th or Jackass II.

It is why some grocery store owners choose not to sell booze.

It is why some Christians choose not to work on Sunday, the Lord's day.

Perhaps what Mr. Prager would perfer is
Congress make a law, yeah, that's it, pass a law requiring these people to conduct business the way HE wants it conducted. Yep, make those Muslim taxi drivers carry alcohol-carrying passengers. Yep, make a whole new category of lawbreakers.

Yeah, that's it. Get the government involved in free enterprise. Why not? Sounds like good conservative ideals to me.

--NOT!!--

Not a Free Market Issue
For those who claim this is a free market issue, think again. It would be a free market issue IF any person with the ability to drive safely, a knowledge of the local roads, and an operational car were able to get a taxi license. The reality is quite different. Minneapolis has a cap on the number of taxi licenses it issues -- creating a government-imposed limit on the supply of taxis. I believe the law also favors existing companies in the granting of licenses. A really interesting question is how 3/4 of all taxi drivers in Minneapolis came to be Somali under this system.

From what I've read, this limit is to be lifted over the next few years. (Provided the taxi companies which have benefiting from this cushy deal don't sue and win.) At that point, one could argue free market forces should be allowed to take their course.

riderwriter: Good point
I agree with you that the Big G shouldn't get involved in this, as it is a business decision on the part of the cab driver or company. Absolutely right. Your examples are on the money.

I don't think Prager was advocating that, though I'll review the column to see.

I think the point of the column was to point out a moral issue (usually more Prager's domain, as opposed to legality), which is fine. If people become aware of a problem, they may then contemplate other responses they may or may not wish to take, such as boycott or social pressure.

As a matter of fact, the column itself is a form of social pressure.

But the foundation of your post is absolutely correct, IMO.

Va Lady: I don't agree
If this is a problem, then the residents of the area, once made aware of it (such as through columns like this) can put pressure on the municipalities to free up the licensing restrictions to allow more competitors into the marketplace.

Again, I agree with Riderwriter. This is not an issue for Gov intervention.

I see a business opportunity here
Compete for open taxi licenses and cater your business specifically to liquour stores, clubs, bars, etc. You'll do the world a lot of good as you keep drunk drivers off the street AND you'll be able to corner that niche market that (by someone's estimate) 60% of Minneapolis taxi drivers will ignore.

An illustration
of the power of the free market system's efficacy.

I few years ago I went to Moscow on vacation. In Moscow, though there are regular cabs with meters and all, if you walk out to the street and hold out your hand, anyone who's driving a car can pull over and negotiate with you to drive you wherever you want, just like the regular cabs.

Believe me, you hold out your hand and you won't be standing there more than two minutes.

So transportation is fast, and the competition of what is, on this topic, the ultimate in free-marketing, also keeps the prices very low. I could go all the way across town for five bucks, and Moscow's a huge city.

Peaceful? Think Not
Lebenon was a christian country up until the early 60's. They were a very strong, financial country. The Muslims and Christians in lebenon got along together.

Birth Rate - Christians had an average of 2 children, Muslims an average of 4 - 5 children. Soon the Christian majority became a minority. Guess what, cival war for 20 years, the country torn apart by the peaceful religion of Islam. Lebenon is now basically muslim with small pockets of christianity.

Look at Europe today. It is mainly a christian, with approx. 20% muslim. Guess what, christians are having an average of 1.2 children per married couple. Muslims 4 - 5 children per married couple. Two more generations of muslims will break the 50% majority. Europe is gone in 40 - 50 years.

The most interesting side is France. It appears a conservative is going to be elected president. Remember the "youth riots" from this summer. They have not ended, but the press gave up on it as a story. French police are killed every night. Paris is Frances's Bagdad.

Remember, 40 - 50 years, a muslim Europe. Poland and Russia will be our closest allies in the war against terror.

better headline
Wouldn't this piece have been better headlined, "Looking for excuses to attack muslims."
Does anyone believe he is as offended by Christian pharmacists who will not fill prescriptions that they don't agree with? The rationalization above for a distinction is that there are non-religious reasons for opposing the morning after pill (although one would have difficulty finding the non-religious people who find them compelling). But is he unaware that parts of this country still outlaw the selling of alcohol in this or that town or county. Others prevent the selling of alcohol on Sunday (no doubt for the non-religious reason that one should not drink during football games.)
But he does not seem to have any problem with laws which actually tell people they can't do something when they want because someone else's religion objects (as the blue laws do), but instead objects to muslims following what they think are their religious directives. I looked up a story on this, and the muslims believe they are forbiddin to transport alcohol. They do not reject drunks as fares, so they are not concerned with what other people do, only what they do.
So while Christians in this country have a history of laws like the blue laws which tell everyone to keep the Christian day of rest, muslims object to themselves doing things they think their religions ban, and Prager criticizes the muslims for trying to force their religion on people.

Gurky: a slight correction
In your assessment of Europe you state statistics about the "Christians". I think a better phrase would be non-Muslim.

Europe is not very "Christian" at all, as that portion has become basically secular.

Ridewriter - Drunks are BIG Tippers
If the municipality which licenses cabs state the cab MUST pick up all fares, the the cab driver loses his license if he fails to pick up a blind passenger with a dog.

Seeing eye dogs are clean as they do not generally roll in the mud with their master in tow.

Will a muslim cab driver refuse to pick up a fare at the grocery store if the fare has purchase pork. Darn, we can really have some fun with this.

BrianR
Point taken, however, when the muslims out birth them, they will look to their roots is my assumption.

Turkey
istol points out that it is possible for a Muslim country to coexist peacefully with the West. (Didn't Turkey even have a woman prime minister a while back?) There is a difference in approach to how Turkey became "secular" and how we are trying to do it in Iraq. During the reign of Attaturk, as he was tearing the country from the 7th century to the 20th, he was absolutely brutal and ruthless in eliminating the immans' and mullah's opposition. That was the Shah's undoing in Iran - too "nice" (sensitive?). Looking back at some of the posts it looks like that's how Spain cleared out its cesspool via the Inquisition. (Will it take Joisey's "extermination"?)

Brian R
you also could end up in a bath-tub full of ice with your kidney missing. who is in such a hurry that they resort to the equivalent of hitch-hiking? you make an interesting point, but it would never work in New York City.

suggestion
my coworker who is from India told me that Muslims consider it a sin to die near any pigs.

He suggested we just keep a pig or three on every flight.

Hehe.

Mr Ecko: LOL
Well, I just checked, and fortunately they're both still there.

That was too funny!

But my main point was that more competition is the answer, not more Gov regs.

David M - Suggestion
If you bury a muslim with pig blood on them, they do not get their 72 virgins as they are un-clean.

The Bottom Line
In California, in addition to the federal Americans with Disablities Act (ADA) which protects the customer with a Service Dog, we have the Unhru Act. A business operating for the service of the public CANNOT discriminate.

If the Muslim community can't deal with the realities of American culture, they need to find employemnt that doesn't expose them to the diversity of our population.

According to the taboos we're talking about, they couldn't even work bagging groceries.

Didn't Saudi Arabia JUST RECENTLY ban the selling of dogs? If they had to ban them, it seems like a lot of Muslims were dog owners.

This is just a test. They will keep pushing the envelope.

Gurky: Heh heh heh
Maybe that could lead to a new motto for the pig farmers' association.

"Be a Patriot! Eat More Pork!"

Dogs from Lebanon
Aren't dogs displaced (for want of a better word) due to the Israeli/Hezballah war being shipped to the USA for adoptions? Well who owned them? It couldn't have been all Christians. This is not a defense of muslims, I don't like or trust them, but it would be interesting to learn who owned all these dogs.

Celtic-dragon
"I propose we write, e-mail and phone to protest any cab company that allows employees or contractors to do this."

That's great. Let the market decide. Then when all the Muslim taxi drivers get fired for their religious beliefs they can sue the cab company for wrongful termination.

Perhaps it might be better to give the Muslims a chance to solve the problem first. Go to the local mosque(s) and ask for a fatwa that gives reasonable accomodation to non-believers, stressing that if the drivers continue to avoid certain kinds of customers, then the companies will be forced to terminate Muslim cab drivers.

I know a Muslim guy in my complex (married to my ex's friend) who works at Patrick Cudahy cutting pork. He asked for fatwa on this, and the ruling was he could do it to support his family, but he should seek other employment as soon as possible. This is reasonable, yes?

Dreamer
Good point."A business operating for the service of the public CANNOT discriminate." You have a problem with blind people and dogs? Don't become a cabbie!
What some people aren't grasping is not being able to catch a cab can become a safety (life or death)issue. Especially if 60% of them won't pick you up and you are blind.
I was in New York with a friend and we suddenly found ourselves in a dangerous situation and turn and ran several blocks and caught a cab and got out of there. What if we'd had a bottle of wine and the cabbie had been Muslim? It is not the same thing as a phramacist refusing the morning after pill (you can go to another pharmacist or better yet, put the child up for adoption if you don't want him or her). It is not the same thing as a movie owner not showing Jackass II. I can go to another theater or rent it on DVD at a later date. It is NOT the same as needing to get out of an area immediately and not being able to because the people who took this public service job are refusing to pick me up because I have a dog or booze (if I'm waving a loaded gun then I think they have a right to pass me by in order to protect their life, but that's another subject). The author's whole point to this article (in my opinion) is that wherever Muslims go, they refuse to respect other peoples cultures. They impose their will on the rest of us and are quite possibly leaving people in a dangerous situation (especially the blind). Little by little they force their beliefs on us and get away with it. I think that is his point.

Roozie
I believe that the inquisition and the crusades were more than several centuries ago. I do believe Dennis is speaking of more recent times. Now, unless the Catholic church decides to resurrect the crusades, the only "religion" that is trying to impose themselves upon us are the Muslims and the SP's.

Taproot

Hindu's are next
Ahh yes, the Hindu's will be eliminated next because they regard cows as sacred and no other religion does. Cows are allowed to walk through city streets! Such a travesty!


Lovely.

Re: liberal dialog
I've never met a Hindu who told me that I couldn't eat a hamburger here!

Makes me wonder... have any of these Muslims heard of the phrase "When in Rome, do as the Romans"?

Run away!
Dreamer

"I was in New York with a friend and we suddenly found ourselves in a dangerous situation and turn and ran several blocks and caught a cab and got out of there. What if we'd had a bottle of wine and the cabbie had been Muslim?"


A government-mandated omnipresent driver, with orders to preserve the peace and succor the innocent is called a POLICE OFFICER, not a TAXI DRIVER.

Beggar's can't be choosers. if your rescuer named a condition of leaving wine behind before he would escort you to safety, i would suggest you comply.

If you don't care for that situation, arming yourself and being more cautious is a better solution than demanding that taxi drivers everywhere be ordered to defend you.


a business operating entirely as a public service is generally referred to as a GOVERNMENT AGENCY, which taxi drivers are demonostrably not.

Discrimation
regarding the question of whether i would demand non-smoking restaurants, that WOULD be hypocritical of me. but i don't.

I DISLIKE smoke in restaraunts, and will do everything possible to avoid entering into a restauraunt where smoking occurs, whether that is divided into sections or not.

But since I've never had any problem finding restaurants where NO smoking occurs, that's not an insurmountable problem. and I don't see myself as having any right to march into a smoking restaurant and demand that they start changing THEIR business model to suit MY tastes.

Racism
"Otter writes: Tuesday, October, 17, 2006 6:05 AM
Krenn
They also refuse to pick up Jews. I am surprised that wasn't mentioned in the article. Now we're into Discrimination, if we were not before, eh?"


IF that is true, then as a sign of solidarity I might decline to patronize any cab company that permitted that. I can't imagine that many cab companies could survive that kind of faux pas.

BUT, freedom is the ability to act stupidly. I'd rather watch them crash and burn from idiocy than pass laws to save them from themselves.

Moral or ethical?
I agree with Pragar's premise, but not his use of words: Morality deals strictly with ones' religious beliefs, so it would indeed be impossible for a secular or nonreligious person to uphold something which is strictly moral. The reality is that Muslims who practice their beliefs are practicing morality; issues such as abortion are issues of ethics, or universal truth. A secular person can be ethical; morality is dictated by religious belief.

RE: Roozie how clueless are you?

.....otter...what are the odds of the "true" history of the Crusades being taught in Public High Schools?...

.....and if it was...what are the odds that CAIR and the ACLU would be filing law suits for racial discrimination?...

.....and what are the odds that the School would apologize and drop the course?....

.....Ans. astronomical, sure bet, sure bet.....COLOSSUS

Hey liberal dialog
I have yet to see any cows running rampant in the streets of any American city where Hindu immigrants reside. They do not force their religion upon our society.

The only people that I am aware of that are attempting to eliminate Hindus are- you guessed it- the practitioners of the "Religion of Peace"!!

Master Plan
I have a Muslim friend who likes to comment that when sharia is the law in the U.S. he will gladly take all of my posessions and then protect me from other muslims. He is NOT joking about it but informing me he will take my things so others will not have them. We MUST rid america of these filthy moon god worshippers. Their satanic bent destroys their souls so they view all others as a little less than human.

Muslims and Their Imperfect Religion
Dennis, and all of us, must realize by now that this oppressive religion is taught mainly to young males who are given the understanding that, no matter how deficient their upbringing and education, they are superior to everyone else on the face of the earth and are destined to rule or kill all who don't repent and accept their false prophet.

Further, it's a common understanding that most of these illiterates who practice and memorize the distorted teachings of the Quran, do literally believe, as gospel, that the barbarian practices being ingrained in their undeveloped and impressionable minds is their birthright.

That's a shame because given the opportunity to exist in a free society, to develop a rounded education and a compassion for others, most of the middle eastern natives have the ability to grow, prosper and be productive in a society that's open and tolerant of just about anyone.

However, there is a limit to what we'll tolerate from this band of misguided uneducated, intolerant, shiftless Islamic practitioners. And that limit is now within reach of the entire Judo-Christian western civilization.

We will not permit the beliefs of an intolerant thoughtless theocratic society to forcibly change our lives. To attempt to do so will lead to an all-out rebellion and the complete elimination of all of these brainwashed radicals, fundamentalists, moderates and terrorists.

Before we can fully appreciate what our civilization is facing, we have a need to study historical middle east wars and crusades, specifically from 1100 to 1300 AD. The battles between the Catholic Church, European kings and nobles, Muslims, Mongols and Jews. This is necessary to have a better grasp of what the sheiks and imams have utilized as the basis for their fatwa's, preachings, sermons and lessons in the madrassas ('bible schools' for young boys).

It all started in the mid 7th century and continues 1400 years later. This war will not end until they are once again brought to their knees, driven back to the desert sands or they've wiped-out everyone else.




WRENCH
Wrench writes "A secular person can be ethical; morality is dictated by religious belief."

Where do you think ethics comes from?

Ok that is fine!
From now on I will always have a liquor item in hand before I ask a taxi service.

This is a security rule to be sure no get into some terrorist car o service.

Believers in mohameth myth alwais feel those who do not believe in that evil myth, or do not follow the koran bigotry, must be converted and trained as livestock, just because they will do that.

Boycot to mohammedan services, products, etc.

All of them must go to dessert and live ther as they like. Not any cent or service to mohameddans.

They live only to terrorize others to make all as morons as they are.

Some readings.
The British prime minister joined the increasingly corrosive debate over the use of the Islamic veil.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/18/world/europe/18britain.html?th&emc=th








Krenn/Dreamer & Jane
You didn't follow the post correctly. Jane added to my comment (very constructively) about her New York adventure.

If a Muslim cabby refused to pick up a person in DANGER FOR THEIR LIVES because of some over-blown religious sensitivity, they should be prosecuted for depraved indifference, (or whatever that term is..)

It would be on the scale of little girls forced back into a burning schoolhouse because they didn't have time to put on their death shrouds (veil sounds too prettily benign) ....what's the difference?

Back to the BOTTOM LINE. In a culture and society so diverse as America, we have laws on the books to protect us as individuals from discrimination. It's the only way this country can survive, imho.

As a real estate agent, I can't refuse to show property to a Muslim, or anyone else, much less a person who has a disability! As Jane pointed out, that vulnerable person was put in a frightening and possibly dangerous situation.

I see a sweet little lawsuit against the taxi co., especially it's their policy to allow the discrimination.

US liberties vs. religious traditions
Lon,

The difference between Christians and Muslims and the societies they live in is very different. In the US, we are a secular society that is shaped by Christian values, but this is not universal. Christians as a whole, live in harmony with laws of their community that they may not agree with but can still choose to abide by the traditions of their religion without imposing their beliefs on others. I went to school with Baptists who were opposed to dancing, but there were no laws that restricted dancing in the community. Those Baptists simply chose not to attend functions where dancing was occurring.

The difference with Muslims in this case is that there actions discriminate against individuals who do not hold their beliefs. The actions of the taxi cab drivers are a violation of civil liberties to people that are not Muslim. If there are no laws against dogs or alcohol in taxi cabs, then Muslims who hold these beliefs must adhere to American society’s laws or choose to avoid this activity. Some Muslims come here from a theocratic nation, where Muslim values are translated into secular law. Immigrants, from any nation, have to understand that their former laws are not ours.

Here ya go, Krenn
Privately held companies (in this case Taxis) that provide a public service are accountable to the regulations and statutes that relate to that service. That doesn't mean they are a Government Agency.

This is an excerpt from the Americans With Disabilities Act. In California, we have the Unhru Act which states that discrimination is illegal if you are operating ANY business that deals with the public.


Sec. 37.29 Private entities providing taxi service.
(c) Private entities providing taxi service shall not discriminate
against individuals with disabilities by actions including, but not
limited to, refusing to provide service to individuals with disabilities
who can use taxi vehicles, refusing to assist with the stowing of
mobility devices, and charging higher fares or fees for carrying
individuals with disabilities and their equipment than are charged to
other persons.



JimmyJim:
"Can anyone name one thing of value to come out of an Islamic culture?

zero"

How recently?

Ironically, you answered the question right. Zero was one of the greatest things to come out of Muslim culture, though they lifted it from India.

Up until the 1400s Europe was still using Roman numbers, which hampered mathematical development to no end. Though they knew the calendar was out of whack they couldn't quantify it because complex fractions were a near-impossibility. Once place-value notation was accepted, revolution happened in Europe. The calendar was corrected, astronomical observations and calculations became worlds easier, and the scientific revolution began.

As for today, the only thing of value I can think of is oil, and that's not exclusively Muslim. So if we should develop a fuel cell that runs on something besides petroleum, does the whole Middle East become irrelevant to us?

Faith practices
As a Christian, I believe that drunkedness is a sin. I am not saying that alcohol itself is a sin (Jesus turned water into very good wine, for example) or that it is sinful to imbibe the alcohol, but that it is sinful to drink to the point of getting drunk. Because I am a small woman, there is a fine line between a pleasant buzz and falling on my touche, so I choose not to drink alcohol. That is a faith-based personal choice.

I further believe that most people in this country drink far too much alcohol than is good for them as individuals and our society as a whole. Therefore, if I owned a grocery store, I would refuse to sell alcohol. That would be a faith-based business choice.

The salient point here is that I am not forcing my belief or lifestyle choice on anyone else. There are other sources for drinkers to get their alcohol. I do not hurt anyone by maintaining my personal convictions.

Are the taxi cab drivers endangering the lives of others by their behavior? Hmm, well, it might seem so. Blind people rely on taxis to get around and we don't want them driving themselves anymore than we want drunks driving themselves. On a cold winter's night, an available taxi might mean the difference between life and death. Taxis are, in most localities, regulated by license. I think that is the point here. The municipality regulates the taxis for the common good and blind people and drunks come under the purvey of the common good. Taxi drivers agree to provide a public service.

I don't think we should ask the Muslim taxi drivers to violate their religious beliefs. I think, however, that we should ask them if they plan to fulfill their contract with the licensing agency, the one that states they will serve the public. If they are unwilling to fulfill their licensing agreement, maybe they'd prefer delivering pizzas for a living.

I meant "purview"
How I wish for an edit function!

Moral of the story...
Every American should buy a dog. Hopefully if Muslims see dogs everywhere they'd go back to their tents in the sand.

Wit & wisdom of Prager
"many of those with a graduate degree in the humanities, and others taught how not to think clearly"

Brilliant, Dennis!

Islamo-fascists and white females
I hope the islamo-whackos target white females when they become powerful enough; allow me to be one of those who watches with delight as white females get the treatment they so richly deserve.

it doesn't end with taxi drivers
What about Muslim carnival ride conductors, bus drivers, train conductors, or God forbid, airline pilots? Will they all be able to choose who gets to ride and who doesn't?

My husband works for a bank and he draws contracts dealing with foreign countries and goods. On all the Muslim contracts it states that any goods being delievered to a Muslim country cannot stop at any port in Israel. This has to be agreed upon by the importer before he can sell his goods to Muslim countries.

On the NY Stock Exchange, there are Muslim stocks that forbid dealings with Israel, Jews, or any pork products.

This problem with Muslims is much bigger than just with taxi drivers in Minneapolis.

Taxi Muslim Refusnikx
This is our culture. We do not have an obligation to destroy it for them. Nor do they have an obligation to destroy theirs etc. and they are not ! by any means. So ?

Porous Border Makes Cities Less Safe
I just read an article(George Putnam) documenting that foreign Hezbollah operatives recently have illegally entered the United States through our minimally patrolled Mexican border.

It is even alleged some terrorists may have arrived in Venezuela first,before going to Mexico.Maybe the U.S.Navy needs to blockade Venezuela and see how long Hugo Chavez can carry on without supertankers.

Over time,many more might follow.I can't help but think our cities are likely to grow unsafe as a consequence of lackluster immigration enforcement and control of the border.Should we lay a red carpet near Juarez for them?

We need to protect ourselves now,rather than wait until one of them really does bring in a "dirty bomb".What better way than the proposed 700 mile fence?

Trouble-making imams and their followers need to be monitored and action taken if talk becomes hostile.It is not a good defense to wait until the local mosque in your city is chanting:"Jihad".

Liberal tolerance towards hostile sectarians is not a good example of common sense.We can surely do without this kind of "diversity".

Good Things from the Islamic World
We did get one or two things from the Islamic world, though I doubt that Islam had anything to do with it. The origin of algebra is traced to a muslim named al-Jabr, though he seems to have been Persian, not arab. Also, astronomy fans and navigators note that many of the stars have arabic names. Apparently those sheep herders had plenty of time on their hands, and navigating deserts pose exactly the same difficulties as navigating oceans. Apparently, there hasn't been any contributions since then.

And if you think I'm soft on Islam, you haven't read many of my other posts.

a better analogy
Mr. Prager: You suggest a ridiculous analogy, and then spend the entire column noting it's a ridiculous analogy. And then you add another ridiculous comparison. Here's a GOOD comparison: Decent, ordinary, white, often-Christian taxi drivers refusing to pick up black people or Arabs in big American cities because they are "afraid" of them. You fail to consider this very commonly-occurring example because it's not "religious", but in fact it is -- or at least it's as "religious" as your ridiculous example (which incidentally many Muslim drivers DO NOT practice!). In truth, it occurs in that slippery slope grey area where religious conviction and prejudice become the same: exactly where your mind seems to live without question. I'm sure you're having trouble grasping this.
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