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Sunday, July 19, 2009
Debra J. Saunders :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Gang That Couldn't Shoot -- Period
by Debra J. Saunders
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Last weekend, the New York Times reported that after 9/11, the CIA developed a "secret counterterrorism program" to train hit squads to kill top al-Qaida leaders. It seemed like good news to me. After all, why bankroll an intelligence agency if you can't use it to kill an enemy against whom America has declared war?

The news hooks: CIA director Leon Panetta killed the program last month after he told Senate and House Intelligence committees about the program.

And: Congress allegedly did not know about the nonoperational operation because, according to unnamed sources, former Veep Dick Cheney told the agency not to disclose the program to Congress.

The part of the story that undermined the story: The covert program "never became fully operational, involving planning and some training that took place off and on from 2001 until this year."

In plain English that means: Nothing happened -- there never were any Jason Bournes -- and no one informed the intelligence committees about it.

Subsequent stories elsewhere reported that the program never got off the ground. CIA Director George Tenet killed the program in 2004. Tenet's successor, Porter Goss, revived the program, but it never became operational, even when Michael Hayden, and later Panetta, took over as CIA chief.

Some unnamed sources say Cheney told the CIA not to tell Congress about the nonoperational operation; other sources claimed Cheney was not involved. Cheney isn't talking. My guess: If Cheney told the CIA to cork it, someone at the CIA's Langley headquarters would have leaked the whole story years ago. After all, the Bush years were replete with unnamed sources leaking classified intelligence on Iraq, wiretapping and efforts to squeeze al-Qaida's finances.

It turns out the New York Times reported "a list of terrorist leaders the Central Intelligence Agency is authorized to kill" on Dec. 15, 2002.

Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois, a Democrat, has argued there should be an investigation of the CIA's failure to disclose. He told ABC's "This Week," "To have a massive program that is concealed from the leaders in Congress is not only inappropriate, it could be illegal." But the National Security Act requires the CIA to "keep the congressional intelligence committees fully and currently informed of all covert actions" -- not necessarily brainstorming.

The Associated Press reported last week that the House Intelligence Committee is laying the groundwork for a formal investigation. If so, the committee might start by probing how it is that Intelligence Committee members didn't know about a plan that had been reported on the front page of the New York Times.

"The administration must notify Congressional leaders of any covert action finding signed by the president," the 2002 story reported. "In the case of the presidential finding authorizing the use of lethal force against members of al Qaeda, Congressional leaders have been notified as required, the officials said."

True, the New York Times did not stipulate that terrorists on the "secret list" might be dispatched by a bullet instead by a drone-launched missile. The story did mention that the CIA used a drone to kill an al-Qaida leader in Yemen.

One might recall that in 2002, even D.C. Democrats wanted to get Osama bin Laden and his lieutenants more than they wanted to get Dick Cheney.

The worst part of this story is that it suggests that the CIA is run by a bunch of half-cocked cowboys looking for a direction in which to point their guns -- while the very point of the hit squads was to kill the bad guys without killing innocent bystanders. And, I would add, to do so at great bodily risk to CIA agents.

No doubt, CIA brass in the end decided that the risks and diplomatic fallout of an agent getting caught -- either by the enemy or the press -- were too great.

Such are the sensibilities in Washington that, collateral damage notwithstanding, it is politically safer to bomb terrorists than to shoot them.

While Democrats demanding an investigation might have set out to mess with Cheney, the only clear casualty to date is one of their own: Panetta.

He rushed to disclose the nonoperational covert operation to Intelligence Committee members, and unnamed sources rewarded his candor by leaking the story. He shut down a program that, if never implemented, makes complete sense in time of war. Add it all together and Panetta got rolled.

The message to agency staff may be unintended, but it is clear: If there's anyone left at CIA headquarters who wants to defeat al-Qaida, that person would be well advised to hire a lawyer first. Or maybe a shrink.

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Deflection
As Obama's popularity fades and the polls reveal the slippage, this administration will do everything they can think of to regain popularity. This includes making boogey men out of the Bush administration to deflect attention from their own incompetence and failure.

Time to unleash...
... al-Qaida on Congress.

Make that the 'North American Congress,' the one which will soon approve Sotomayor to the Supreme Court.

Fair Trade
I don't suppose we could trade the president and most of Congress for that captured soldier in Afghanistan, but it's worth looking into.

Posters 1,2, and 3
Ditto to all.

The intelligence establishment
is full of maladroits and partisans (note the repeated efforts by the CIA to undercut Bush 43). But an imperfect network is better than none at all, which is what we may have when Pelosi and her gang have finished. Frank Church would be proud of his successors.

Liars,self-serving evil men
I quite agree, I would be comforted to know that our government had a covert group to protect us and take out some of these terrorists who do not fight a war up front with real soldiers against a real army. They know they couldn't win fair & square. So, the terrorize and kill innocent citizens and children. What is Leon up to? No good for sure. I would expect that any country would have such a group trying to get ahead of the terrorist and protect our citizens from them even if they must kill them. At least they \would have gone after terrorists not their children. BUT--WAIT! It never happened, they never followed through, which I would have no problem with them having carried through. This libs are sickening. I have no doubt they have or will have, in the works some type of black ops against our own citizens.."Ya know, the ones who cling to their bibles and guns." Well no wonder.

Al Qaida
60 Minutes did a piece on Delta Force; supposidly non existent, and how they were dispatched to kill Bin Laden. One of the leaders, in desguise, told how they preemted their plan to get him from the rear ( he was already located). Therefore he escaaped back into Pakistan. This is not a way to fight a war on terrorism.

Luke
Two of the loudest complaints about Bush 43 from the left:

* He "let Bin Laden get away" -- that is, he failed to pursue him into Pakistan and perhaps start a shooting war with a nuclear-armed ally-of-sorts.

* Operations in the war against terrorism often kill civilians.

The program now being dissected was an attempt to deal with both issues. But it too turns out to be wrong, wrong, wrong. There's no pleasing these people.

another bogus "scandal"
Let's see. The Democratic Party wants to have "truth commissions" (witch hunts) about the CIA about a program that:

1. was never operational;
2. was never funded; and
3. was reported on the front page of his party's biggest fan publication, the New York Times.

Paleocon
Happy good morning. Your support from the other day is appreciated.

Barry's handling of the jihadis has been maladroit in words and deeds. Almost certainly, this will come back to bite him. I suspect the only reason our enemies have not whacked us lately is they don't want to rock the boat Barry is driving onto the rocks all by himself. Why take a chance an attack might make him change course.

The DC dingbats now in power know nothing except how to get elected. Dealing with dictators in the no rules environment of international relations is completely out of their element. An almost universal fault among libs is they think everyone has the same values they do, if they say the right things. So liars like Stalin easily pull the wool over their eyes. Putin, Chavez et al will do the same.

A non story if ever one existed
No one did anything,
nothing happened,
the "program" was killed at least three times without ever starting,
something Congress should really investigate for several $10's of millions of dollars and wreck our intelligence services more than they were wrecked by Dems. in the Church Commission 35 years ago, post Watergate.

60 Minutes
Luke,you cannot depend on 60 Minutes/CBS for information;they have NO credibility after the Bush memos forgeries and CBS not firing Rather immediately afterwards.
At best,60 Minutes edits their work to show the viewpoint they predetermined regardless of whether it actually is accurate,at worst,they are a "progressive" propaganda machine.

Straw man
Democrat generated Straw man for the liberal media. They are salivating to get something on Richard Cheney and the Democrats know it. I am surprised that they did not wait for the election cycle. Maybe the real polls are not the same as the media generated ones. It almost seems like someones poll numbers have slipped significantly for the Democrats to pull this out so early.

domestic terrorists.
progressive polititicians are the biggist threat to america today!

Twilight Zone
America is becoming the but of "Dumb" jokes everywhere. I just returned from a trip to Brazil where the latest popular jokes are in the vein of the traditional "Polak" jokes here in America..Like "How many Americans does it take to....(fill it in)"
Thank you Liberals - Democrats - Pol.Correct - Useful idiots all!
I was proud to be hated by failed, envious leftists all over the world, but it hurts to be viewed as retarded imbeciles..with utter contempt and we now deserve it too!

Gee, how do they find the time?
The country is going to hell because the Democrats are busy passing bills left and right that I am surprised they find the time for witch hunts against Republicans. Oh, wait, I remember now, they DON'T READ ANY OF THE BILLS before they pass them. What a time saver!!

Durbin, need I say more?
The guy that went to Iraq after 9/11 while Saddam was still in power and denigrated our president? Well, I sure would like to know what his definition of "massive" is, since this was a plan, not a program. What a putz! But then, Democrats grandstand for the government run media, they don't tell the truth. To be frugal, maybe the same committee that spent so much time investigating steroid use in baseball could do this investigation. The outcome will be about as useful.

OBAMA, BIN LADIN AND 9/11
When Ted Kennedy and others during the campaign publicly confused Obama's name with Osama bin Ladin where they unconsciously uttering ominous oracles warning of the destructive impact of Obama's policies on the US economy? Is Obama to our capitalist system what bin Ladin was to the Twin Towers on 9/11?

Click my name and read my piece: Is Barack Obama Channeling Bin Ladin?

Democratic Traitors
The Nancy Pelosi's, Diane Feinstein's and Richard Durbin's and other Democratic Party membes who are now whining about this "non-operational idea" of the CIA are the same dimwits and dip$hits who, for their own political egos, are the ones leaking classified info to the NYT just to thwart any CIA plans to protect this country from terrorists. And, God forbid, if this country gets hit again with another 9/11, they'll be in the forefront, blaming the CIA for not knowing about it beforehand. It's a lose/lose situation for the CIA. I wouldn't be surprised, and I wouldn't blame them, if the entire staff of the CIA just resigned, en mass.
Why worry about foreign terrorists when our REAL enemies are members of our own government?

I'll bet that Bin Laden and Zawahiri are sitting in their caves, laughing their butts off and cheering on ol' Nancy, Richard, Diane and company.

Wisdom of the Ancients
From Flavius Vegetius Renatus to the Roman Emperor Valentinian II:

It is not the profusion of riches or excess of luxury that can influence our enemies to court or respect us. The can only be effected by the terror of our arms. Misconduct in the common affairs of life may be retrieved, but it is quite otherwise in war, where errors are fatal and without remedy, and are followed by immediate punishment.

A prudent general will try to sow dissention among his adversaries, for no nation, though ever so weak in itself can be completely ruined by its enemies unless its fall be facilitated by its own distraction. In civil dissension men are so intent on the destruction of their private enemies that they are entirely regardless of the public safety.

Debra stop lying
"... The part of the story that undermined the story: The covert program "never became fully operational, involving planning and some training that took place off and on from 2001 until this year."

In plain English that means: Nothing happened -- there never were any Jason Bournes -- and no one informed the intelligence committees about it... "

Something did happen. "..involving planning and some training that took place off and on from 2001 until this year." is "happening". It means spending funds and personnel hours training to make the coward Cheney "feel" like a tough guy. Just tell me this. Is it OK for President Obama to have such a covert scheme to take out enemies of the US at home and abroad? Will you support that?

OBAMA, BIN LADIN AND 9/11
When Ted Kennedy and others during the campaign publicly confused Obama's name with Osama bin Ladin were they unconsciously uttering ominous oracles warning of the destructive impact of Obama's policies on the US economy? Is Obama to our capitalist system what bin Ladin was to the Twin Towers on 9/11? Is the one emblematic of the other?

Click my name and read my piece: Is Barack Obama Channeling Bin Ladin?

Well Hal ....
You are correct about one thing. I don't think that the Lord Obama would hesitate for a moment to 'Take Out' Americans. The boy and his cohorts have no love for this country and will use any measure to 'remake/destory' it.
As a party member standing in line awaiting recognition and reward; when the question is asked of you what you have done to aide the party in its success, how will you be able to answer?

Hal D.
Cheney isn't a coward. Debra Saunders isn't a liar.

Obama already has the authority to order the death of terrorist leaders (they can't be considered "heads of state").

What's your problem, Hal?

Pistol
"Happy good morning."

Hey. The same to you.

"Your support from the other day is appreciated."

My pleasure. You did just fine without it, but sometimes I tire of being denounced as an ideologue and blamed for Obama's ascent.

It's not my fault or yours that we had the worst crop of presidential contenders in recent memory. Clinton, Obama, and McCain are vindictive, dictatorial hotheads. They're ignorant, if not contemptuous, of the Constitution. Clinton and Obama are too cozy with criminals and terrorists. McCain's involvement with the Senate Select Committe on POW/MIA Affairs raises too many troubling questions. Unfortunately, two of them were nominated.

I've endorsed the lesser evil many times and regretted doing so. No more. I won't be censured for declining to choose between candidates unfit for office.

If assigning blame for the current mess is a profitable undertaking, we mustn't forget those who voted _for_ Obama; those who helped him cover up his first two decades on this planet; and those who let Democrats and independents pick the Republican nominee.

Anyone who doubts the wisdom of cleaning out the vipers' nest frequently should consider Arlen Specter. Time after time, conservatives voted for him to keep a Democrat out of his seat. In retrospect, it's unclear how a real Democrat could've been much worse. When his Republican support finally began to fade, he became what he had always been, a Democrat. His parting speech was a jewel: I've been a senator for 30 years, and I'm too important to be turned out by the voters of my party or my state.

Expelling the arrogant and unresponsive doesn't necessarily conflict with ideological purity or partisan advantage. But it's more important.

Okay, I've figured it out...

doofuss really does suffer the SAME cognitive dissonance, intellectual limitations, and obvious lack of reading comprehension skills that his DC liberal idiots suffer.

Obviously, like doofuss, the DC dumb-o-crats can't read either, and/or like doofuss, disregard and ignore facts that they don't like.

This is nothing more than another diversion so the MSM won't focus on the already failed Obozo presidency, and how the dumb-o-crats are running us right straight to Marxism.




DavidMac
"Date: Jul 19, 2009 - 9:35 AM EST
Hal D.
Cheney isn't a coward. Debra Saunders isn't a liar..."

Di*ck Cheney is definitely a coward, any torturer is. Is deliberately misleading lying? That is what Debra did in this piece.

"..Obama already has the authority to order the death of terrorist leaders (they can't be considered "heads of state")."

Actually he does not. I think IRA folks are safe this five minutes.

"...What's your problem, Hal?"

Answer the question I asked

For Everyone
Everyone, reread my 9:00am post this morning, especially the second paragraph.

Shortly afterward, TH's most notable blue eyed jihadist posted another of his fatwas(sp?, once again reminding us all of his support and admiration for the demise of our country. It's as if he intended to illustrate, on my command, the truth of Flavius' wise counsel to Valentinian: the most effective way to destroy a nation is to undermine its resolve from within through the aid of spies and dissenters.

The FBI had Robert Hanson. The US Navy had the Walkers, the father and son team convicted in the 1980s for seriously compromising our nation's naval secrets. America is betrayed by the democrat party. The US Air Force had Hal Donahue.


Another "wrinkle" that the dumb-o-crats

are ignoring...

"PROPOSED FOR IMPLEMENTATION!"

Oddly enough, the LAW stipulates that the CIA notifies Congress WHEN a covert plan is actually
"proposed for implementation," which this particular plan NEVER WAS!


Sorry doofuss, the CIA was never supposed to notify Congress when "..involving planning and some training that took place off and on from 2001 until this year." is 'happening.'"







Six months into the presidency;
Obama's grip is slipping six months in. We have/had the greatest county in the world, and the Liberals are gnawing at the edges, breaking it down. This administration has to keep stepping on the face of the previous to maintain the numbers. Six months in, more money spent or scheduled to be spent, and the effects ion the next six months will follow this past six months.

Would you or I as an "operative" be willing to risk your all if you knew the program you were working within were fully known to members of Congress? I think not. I want my country back and I want it safe for my grandkids. Senator Durbin is no spokesman, but an empty suit.

TYPICAL NY TIMES AND DEM TREASON
Panetta is a fool.

He is being used by the Times to boost thier lousy readership, and it it failing.

PLEASE CLOSE DOWN NY TIMES--IT WOULD MAKE AMERICA SAFER.

AND BY THE WAY, FOOLS, WHY DO YOU THINK THEY CALL IT SECRET SERVICE?

SO EVERYONE CAN KNOW ABOUT IT?

WELCOME TO THE IDIOCRACY!

ROWDY BOOTS

Davidmac
You ask what is Hal's problem? Stupidity pretty much sums it up.

Hal D.
You wrote that Obama doesn't have the authority to order the deaths of terrorist leaders.

So when Bush ordered the bombing of a building where the intel indicated Sadam Hussein was hiding, that was illegal?

Maybe you haven't heard yet, but the commander in chief can order the military to target and kill the enemy. It's also known as "war".

All the above
There are three theories as to what is behind the push by Democrats to "investigate" a non-issue.

1. It is a smoke screen to mask the complete unraveling of the economy, Obama's foreign policy faux pas and a growing public animosity to the ruin of our democratic system.

2. It is a ruse to cover the flap over Nancy Pelosi's complete gaffe and lie that the CIA misleads Congress all the time, as well as penance for Leon Panetta's initial refute of her lie.

3. It is red meat to the rabid ankle-biting left to soothe their raging passion to maim, mutilate and destroy their archenemies, Bush and Cheney.

My guess, it is all of the above. When you are about to go down in flames, it is best to have redundant back up and the Dems are listing hard to Port.

The accuser is worse than the accused
Obama is acomplishing two things when he points his evil finger at the CIA or Cheney.. First he is making Americans appear as the evil guys and muslims as the godly good boys....Everything he does is geared to make Islam appear peaceful and muslims as victims and America as the evil purpatrator...
He is also providing a smoke screen to camoflauge his evil actions which are destroying America...He is destroying us financially, politically and militarily...
Consider what real evil is.. Would it not be for the demander in chief to forbid Americans to return fire on the taliban???? or to forbid actions to rescue the captain from the muslim pirates.....Obama is a better enemy to American that a leader.. If you blindly follow the blind you fall into a ditch..

The letter.
After Leon gave his briefing, several Dems wrote a letter to Leon, telling him what he, told them! That letter was then immediately leaked to start this new attack on Cheney. They know that they can’t get Cheney on any thing he did, BUT maybe they can get lucky, like they did with Scooter Libby, and get someone, anyone, to make a mistake in the sworn testimony. Then they can use the old standby, perjury! Nothing new here.

Hal Donahue
You asked, "Is it OK for President Obama to have such a covert scheme to take out enemies of the US at home and abroad? Will you support that?"

Yes. Yes.

Now what else do you want to know?

If
nothing happened, but HAL said it did, so it must have happened. Right HAL?

Hal's as worthless as the teats on a boar.

Husker2
I think that it's not just that they were going out to kill al qeada. The author of this article is lying. And, honestly, you'd be happy knowing Hillary had the power to order someone killed, with no oversight?

Also, they were not doing a good job.
, a three star admiral named [William H.] McRaven, ordered a stop to it because there were so many collateral deaths. Under President Bush's authority, they've been going into countries, not talking to the ambassador or the CIA station chief, and finding people on a list and executing them and leaving. That's been going on, in the name of all of us."

If
we are at war, why aren't we killing these terrorists with hit squads? Abd what is the difference between killing with a hit squad and killing with a preadator bomb?

We need to desensify these nutty leftists. Lets put them all in rooms wall papered with all kinds of Cheney pictures. Have Cheney's name and voice constantly playing on tapes. Release them only when they are able to act sane for a few days.

traitorbill
But, the military does kill our enemy and the cia and fbi round them up around the world. There is something very creepy, having a guy like Cheyne, the biggest draft dodger to work in the W.H. and of questionable sanity, having the power, on his own, not as c-i-c, telling some guys to go kill Mr. X.

dipshit dems
This is all the dems can concentrate on? something that didn't even happen. And they are in control o congress. I thin we should hav an investigation into the dems, since they seem to be to stupid to realize that they have lied about this already.

The
non-story about VP Cheney and the CIA becomes a story for one reason and that is to distract the public from the recession created by Obama and other Socialist Party people.

And Obama's State run Media will push it for all its worth on his orders.

More questions
If the republicans think a president should have the power to murder any one, with no oversight, then whose to say, down the road during a close presidential race, that an opponent's plan suddenly explodes...

This stuff happens in Uganda.

abolish the CIA
I have a few problems with the very EXISTENCE of the CIA. In the first place, it was never authorized by the Constitution of the United States, which means it is NOT authorized (10th Amendment. Look it up) It falls under the same unconstitutionality as social security, medicare, NASA, and about 75% of what the Federal government does. Most Conservatives will oppose programs they don't like on grounds of constitutionality, but won't peep about illegal government programs they LIKE. (Same for the liberals, but they aren't here this morning).
Second, like every other government bureaucracy in the history of time, it bungles the vast majority of its projects. Consider these failures of the CIA: Failed to get Bin Laden. Missed the fact that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction. Rendition and torture that ended up netting many innocent people. And that's just a few of them! The CIA has a long record of incompetence. They missed the fall of the Soviet Union. They missed the fall of the Berlin Wall + termination of the Warsaw Pact. They missed the fall of the Shah.
Then there is the covert dumb stuff that they DID pull off like overthrowing the Iranian government. Killing the president of South Vietnam. Setting up Al Queda. etc.
Get rid of the unconstitutional bungling tax eaters that have convinced themselves and everyone around them they are effectively fighting "for America". they are a danger to themselves and to others.


Taft/Hal
Obama sent his ACORN thugs to threaten CEOs and their families with bodily harm, where did he get that authority??

LD
You seem to be agreeing that a president, of someone who works for him, like Cheyne, or Hillary, should not have the kind of power to threaten CEO's or murder people put on their personal hit list? One can sort of see why a civilized society might frown on such things.

The biggest Covert Operation
ever! Has been activated and being run right in front of American eyes! It's Ovomits (code named) "Hope and Change" operation!

The Traitors in Congress and the Ovomit administration are doing everything they can, as fast as they can, to undermine our Free Republic and install a Totalitarian Fascist State!

The CIA was designed to 'protect America' through collected intelligence, spy work and anti-spy operations. Perhaps it's time for the CIA to turn it's attention upon our most dangerous enemy. The Enemy Within! i.e. All politicians that have broken their Oath Of Office and become traitors in their grab for power.

We can always depend on daft...

to demonstrate just how intellectually limited, insufferably stupid, and mind numbing inane the left is!

"... something very creepy" about our military killing our enemy and the cia and fbi round them up around the world???

That is, without question, one of THE MOST brain dead comments ever posted on TH!

"... the republicans think a president should have the power to murder any one, with no oversight..."

And he wonders why we call him "daft." NO ONE said that pres. should have the power to murder anyone, and that's NOT what this is about anyway!


I bet daft can't even dress himself!




Bombs vs. Bullets
When the US government locates someone who they think is the "enemy" what do they do now? Don't they drop a bomb on that suspected location? When they drop a bomb on the suspected location, doesn't that mean that everyone around the area they bomb are going to get killed or injured? By doing that, doesn't it mean that some people who are not the targets are going to be killed? When you conduct a "targetted" assassination of a person, and you are successful, doesn't that mean the only one that is killed is your target? Which is better, killing a whole buch of people by dropping a bomb (I might add that if you do that, you may kill a whole bunch of people and the "target" was not there), or find the target you want to kill and shoot them?

Paul
Paul Location: AZ
Reply # 45
Date: Jul 19, 2009 - 11:42 AM EST

I disagree. The Constitution does allow for Congress to created, maintain, and train militias. The CIA is nothing more than a covert militia. Here's what the Constitution says in part.

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Paleocon y Pistol...


Paleocon
Location: VA
Reply # 25
Date: Jul 19, 2009 - 9:46 AM EST Pistol
"Happy good morning."

Hey. The same to you.

"Your support from the other day is appreciated."

My pleasure. You did just fine without it, but sometimes I tire of being denounced as an ideologue and blamed for Obama's ascent.

It's not my fault or yours that we had the worst crop of presidential contenders in recent memory. Clinton, Obama, and McCain are vindictive, dictatorial hotheads. They're ignorant, if not contemptuous, of the Constitution. Clinton and Obama are too cozy with criminals and terrorists. McCain's involvement with the Senate Select Committe on POW/MIA Affairs raises too many troubling questions. Unfortunately, two of them were nominated.

I've endorsed the lesser evil many times and regretted doing so. No more. I won't be censured for declining to choose between candidates unfit for office...

~~~

Paleocon and Pistol,

Paleocon ~ I wholeheartedly concur with your synopsis and reasoning !

Me Too !

~~~
Pistol,

Dang your hide, I completely agree with your previously stated position as well.

~~~

Why would anyone, want to go to the polls, when the main difference in choices was only skin tone?

As the Rat says, and Pistol also used at least once,

CRAPAROONIE !

Craparoonie is not a noun, verb, nor even a part of speech.

It is a life experience.

Eat some spicy chili, eat some beans, add a few tacos, maybe some cheap beer, eat 4 laxative tablets, and in a little while, you will experience

CRAPAROONIE !

Warning... Do not leave your house, nor even stray far from crapperville.




daft the moron
so daft the admitted commie and lover of marxism is questioning the right of the president to possibly murder someone.

So tell us daft, you admire chavez, the castro and their executioner che, ortega and other dictators and have never once had any problem with the police states they run

You tell us that you also admire soros and his collaboration with the nazi's and claim you would have done exactly the same if you were given the chance

But in your confused world it seems you think that only past presidents of america have been murderers.

Seems you will soon get the oop[ortunity to experience some real violence when calif falls apart and the dims in congress possibly pass another amnesty bill and millions of new illegals can flock to calif to go on welfare and prey on the citizens.

I wonder how much you will still love the illegals when they make you a victim

gc
I'm glad at least, in your mental state, even you can tell these assassination rings are something two bit, dictators would pull off. See what happens when you drink more milk and less gin?

DavidMac
"Date: Jul 19, 2009 - 10:48 AM EST
Hal D.
You wrote that Obama doesn't have the authority to order the deaths of terrorist leaders.

So when Bush ordered the bombing of a building where the intel indicated Sadam Hussein was hiding, that was illegal?.."

Not at all. Saddam was the leader of a country we attacked and were therefore in a state of war with. If the failed Bush bombed Belfast to kill an IRA leader that would be illegal. Why do you think we abandoned a policy of covert assassination? Has it worked for Israel? (no it has insured there most extreme enemies survive)

"...Maybe you haven't heard yet, but the commander in chief can order the military to target and kill the enemy. It's also known as "war"."

We were at war with Iraq. We are not at war with all terrorists. By the way, this country is not at war; only the military is. Civilians forgot the troops long ago

LD35
"Date: Jul 19, 2009 - 11:46 AM EST
Taft/Hal
Obama sent his ACORN thugs to threaten CEOs and their families with bodily harm, where did he get that authority??"

I missed that presidential order. Do you have a copy?

doofus the drunkard
despite their criminal activities of fraudulent registering voters, flap ears the clown, your fellow marxist rewarded acorn several billions of tax payers dollars to continue their activities. Where did flap ears get ther authority to do this.

And flap ears the corrupt clown gave control of chrysler to the unions and told the bond holders to go f*ck themselves and he fired the ceo of gm, which at the time was still a private corporation not yet under govt control.Where did obamarxist get the authority to do this.

And flap ears is appointing 2o something czars to positions of power at salaries he gets to determine. Where did the marxist posing as president get the authority to do this

But just like your fellow martxist, all that matters to you is that capitalism is destroyed and socialism is the new way for america to be ruled


Hal Donohue
"I missed that presidential order. Do you have a copy?"
That "presidential order" is in the same place as VP Chenney's "order" is, Hal!

Give Us A Head Fake Mr. Prez
All this baloney is so the current frauds in office can get the publics eye off the socialist grab for power. I wouldn't trust the current bunch of buffoons as far as I could spit.

Ken_IL #49: Exactly right! Another bogus

scandal!

And yes, spot on again, "The Democratic Party wants to have "truth commissions" (witch hunts)..."


And what's WORSE, these are the people (criminals) running the country!


If THAT doesn't care anyone with just a modicum of intelligence, nothing will.


House Intelligent Committee?
To refer to any part of the political machine as "Intelligent" is beyond comical. Jack Murtha, with his intelligence, accused Marines of murdering innocent civilians in Iraq. When proven wrong he never apologized and should have been charged with such a slanderous charge. So much for Simper Fi, Jack used to be a marine. But alas he's a liberal politician and no one really expects him to know the truth. Sentor Durbin had been trying to get Bush and Cheney impeached, since they got elected on anything that might cross his limited mind. There is no intelligence in that political hack. Would someone tell me why a liberal is more concerned with their own sense of power and their party than with the Constitution or the U.S.A. They will soon turn the US into a Third World Country if they continue to vote for spending bills "WITHOUT" reading them. And this is "Change We Can Believe In".

Interesting Side Note
This site will not allow the use of Senator Durbin's first name. Interesting. Yet it does allow the use of VP Cheney's first name. What's up with that? Is it political or ignorance.

doofuss also missed the LAW...

that stipulates that the CIA must notify Congress WHEN a covert plan is actually "PROPOSED FOR IMPLEMENTATION" which this particular plan NEVER WAS!

But then, we've seen doofuss' already FAILED in record time, ignore the CONSTITUTION and LAWS that get in the way of his Marxist agenda.


Ratas y Ratones
Greetings from the Old Dominion. _Craparoonie_ elegantly sums up a great deal of the present situation, methinks.

Note to trolls: No, that's not the San Francisco treat. On second thought, maybe it is.

Where of where have our statesmen gone?
This land, the most overall beneficial land in the history of the world is all but broken. We have many politicians and VERY few statesmen. Ed

Jim_TX: Several excellent points....

"House Intelligent Committee?" Good question.

How stupid are they when they can't even read their own news outlet, the New York Slime, that prints every national security secret that could possibly put us in danger.

Absolute bone heads!

And about Jack Murtha. Murtha is one of the few Marines who does not fit into the "Once a Marine, always a Marine."

When the Marines refer to anyone as an "ex-Marine" you KNOW that person is a true traitor.




Dafty
11:25 were you concious the day OBL issued a declaration of war against the United States?
In war, it's kill or be killed, except now we have a Usurper masquerading as POTUS who has ordered a Marine Turkey Shoot in Helmond Province Afghanistan..you know, whenever Taliban attack them they are ordered to shoulder their weapons, thus they are the 'Turkeys'. Otherwise the poppy farmers (heroin suppliers) will not trust or respect our military, if one civilian is hurt or killed in an ensuing firefight. So Taliban can run around in those tents they force their women to wear to get up close to KILL our unarmed Marines. Or send one of their slave children loaded with bombbelts to walk in and Kaboom..dead baby and Marines.

Ratas -- addendum
1. A bit of background: the other day on another thread, Pistol said that we should evict all the fools in Washington, right and left. Someone accused him and other "ultraconservatives" of throwing the election to Obama. That got my Scots-Irish up, so I waded in. A good time was had by all.

2. Being mindful of the TH length restriction, I omitted a few obvious objections from my list -- e.g., that Obama and Clinton are socialists and that Obama's a clueless neophyte.

During the Bush Years
The CIA was and is still laced with ACORN operatives and Marxist wannabes. Just like most of our other government agencies, the left has taken them over. This is was not by serendipity or by some happy coincidence, it was by purposeful design. There has been a concerted effort to infiltrate every single branch of government and every government beauracracy with liberal activists...and they've succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.

They believe the have created an air-tight, unimpeachable Marxist government, but I'm afraid all they have created is a monster that must be dismantled and destroyed if we are to remain a viable country in this dangerous world.

Furthermore
Dafty 11:27 what makes you think that's not beyond your tingod? He IS Rail Odinga's cousin and close confidante and Odinga is on record as inciting violence against Christians and their churches in Kenya..and is guilty of burning women and children alive or macheting those running out of the burning church. He may have NOT done it personally but he was/is behind it.
I wouldn't put anything past the Usurper in Chief, especially if he's cornered like the RAT he is.

To Ed Reply #65,
I know you mean well, but I've never known a statesman yet who ever did this or any other country a thimbleful of good...at least not since Benjamin Franklin and maybe even Benjamin Disraeli. We don't need no stinkin' statesmen, we need leaders. McCain fancied himself a statesman, just as Obama does. I will say that although Obama is a total failure as a statesman, he is a very effective leader, however, it's in the wrong frikken direction!

Paleocon_VA: Got your Scots-Irish up, so

you waded in...?

RATS! Sorry I missed THAT one! I bet a good time was had by all, except the libs... :-)



Anne
Unfortunately, my bagpipe was in the attic. Sorry you weren't around to join the fun, but there will be plenty of other opportunities.

And from your 1405 post: "How stupid are they when they can't even read their own news outlet"? Yeah, that's pretty lame, even by contemporary standards. But then they don't even read the bills that they put their own names on.

Was Panetta being candid?
Another option is that he was hunting around for some way to provide cover for Nancy Pelosi. After all, he is a Democrat and there may have been some pressure on him to do so after the dust up between the CIA and Pelosi. So, in an official capacity, he goes to Congress and says "lookie here what I found that we can use to go after Cheney."

Ed
I didn't realize that we had any statesmen left. Maybe they went the way of the dinosaur.

Treason
It has just about reached the point where any testimony or "heads up" by such agencies as NSA, CIA, FBI, and Military intelligence could be construed as "An Act of Treason"

If one "knowingly" makes public or makes available to the enemy National Security Related and Classified information they have violated National Security laws and appropriate regulations. They have committed an "Act of Treason".

Testimony before Congressshould qualify asjust such an "Act". It is like pouring water through a sieve. This has been shown to be true time and time again. Add to this the number of people in our various National Security related agencies, and our State Department that are blatantly sympathetic to Liberal causes and it is clear that Congress is not the only "blabbermouths" in Washington District of Corruption.

Cheney, et al were absolutely right in not informing Congress on a program that was nothing more than a loosely defined plan. I think one could say with little worry about being wrong, that if Congress had been briefed this "program" would have been national headlines in a matter of hours. "Those maniacs Bush and Cheney are at it again, they want to kill women and children up close and personal"
(Al-Qaida is an "equal opportunity employer)

Someone tell me I am wrong.

PC is Thought Control
LEE

Jim
You nailed it. Intelligence in Congress is MIA.

Kermudjin & Paleocon

Kermudjin:
"Was Panetta being candid?
Another option is that he was hunting around for some way to provide cover for Nancy Pelosi. After all, he is a Democrat..."

EXACT-A-MUNDO!! Panetta is a dumbo, and there is no question, it's just cover for Pee-losi.




Paleocon:
Well, get up in that attic and get out those bagpipes!!! :-)

The only thing we need is another Scot-Irish in the mix, and here I am... Tah Dah!

Although for some reason, whenever I show up, that weenie, doofuss, leaves. Huh? Go figure??




Kermudjin & Paleocon

Kermudjin:
"Was Panetta being candid?
Another option is that he was hunting around for some way to provide cover for Nancy Pelosi. After all, he is a Democrat..."

EXACT-A-MUNDO!! Panetta is a dumbo, and there is no question, it's just cover for Pee-losi.




Paleocon:
Well, get up in that attic and get out those bagpipes!!! :-)

The only thing we need is another Scot-Irish in the mix, and here I am... Tah Dah!

Although for some reason, whenever I show up, that weenie, doofuss, leaves. Huh? Go figure??




Anne
In an earlier post, you stated among other things that "...the D.C. Dumb-o-crats can't read either..." and it occurred to me that perhaps that is the reason they failed to read the Stimulus bill (if viagra performed that poorly, there would be he## to pay) or the Cap & Trade bill and most likely, the Health Care bill.

Maybe we should tap into some of the education funds and get those guys and gals in D.C. some remedial reading help. We could send lilly up there to do the remediating and then we wouldn't have to suffer through her pedantic posts while she is boring them to death with her cutesey little stories and all.




Paleocon


Paleocon
Location: VA
Reply # 64
Date: Jul 19, 2009 - 1:53 PM EST Ratas y Ratones
Greetings from the Old Dominion. _Craparoonie_ elegantly sums up a great deal of the present situation, methinks.

Note to trolls: No, that's not the San Francisco treat. On second thought, maybe it is.

and ~~~

Paleocon
Location: VA
Reply # 68
Date: Jul 19, 2009 - 2:06 PM EST Ratas -- addendum
1. A bit of background: the other day on another thread, Pistol said that we should evict all the fools in Washington, right and left. Someone accused him and other "ultraconservatives" of throwing the election to Obama. That got my Scots-Irish up, so I waded in. A good time was had by all.

2. Being mindful of the TH length restriction, I omitted a few obvious objections from my list -- e.g., that Obama and Clinton are socialists and that Obama's a clueless neophyte.

~~~

Kind sir,

I too am Scots-Irish, but I am also a mutt, as I also have some strong German, and a goodly portion of American Indian from both sides of my family. Curiously, my wife has the same background.

I hae nae need to tell ye this, but I heard the skirling 'o the pipes this morn.

[ Note to self... dinna ye stand up so quickly, ye might pass out next time. ]

Now I clamber yon bonnie brae to th' fine trout tarn tha' lies yonder.



Oh, and watch that old fogey 'Pistol'.

He blatantly uses Hoosierisms that I hand him from time to time.

Heck he may even take things from The Old Dominion.


leewolf_AZ: "PC is Thought Control"

One of my dearest, closest friends, and attorney, said to me, not too many months ago...

"Political correctness" has done MORE damage to this country than any law that's ever been passed."

It too almost a half a nanno-second to realize that she was absolutely right, and that was perhaps one of the most profound statements I'd heard in years.



Ratas y Ratones
Hey! Who you calling an old uh an old.... I forget. Let me go back and read your insulting post again.

gayle_CO #80: Good point, remedial readi

help for the DC gang of thugs.

But, we first need to determine IF they're capable of reading at all, and capable of being educated.

Based on what many of the libs post on TH (doofuss, lilly, daft, and now Paul_AZ #45, who seems to have a "few problems with the very EXISTENCE of the CIA" and thinks we should abolish the CIA) I'm not so sure any of them are bright enough to learn to read and be educated!



Paleocon...

Paleocon
Location: VA
Reply # 64
Date: Jul 19, 2009 - 1:53 PM EST Ratas y Ratones
Greetings from the Old Dominion. _Craparoonie_ elegantly sums up a great deal of the present situation, methinks.

Note to trolls: No, that's not the San Francisco treat. On second thought, maybe it is.

~~~

Rat be slow, he be not nimble, but as an after thought...

In San Fran...

The cry went out through the town, even to Knob [ sic ] Hill,


" IT'S A GUSHER "




GunnyCee of 2:07
Another mistake the GOP consistently makes is they make no effort to flushout the left wing leaks and obstructors. Clinton fired some 80 federal attorneys. Result : silence. Bush fired 8 (memory). Result: He was angrily accused of partisan revenge and mean -spirited pettiness. Bush reached out to Democrats and attacked Iraq. He might well have comeout ahead if he'd attacked Democrats and reached out to Iraq.

Hey Pistol: How ya doin'? :-)

Good points! And, just today I read the this past month there was a "record" number of OUR troops killed in Afghanistan.... Anyone hear a firestorm about that?

Nope! No-we-have-not!


Anne
Even if the aforemention D.C.ers and the posters were educated and imbued with some reading comprehension, they would probably still do the same dumb stuff and say the same dumb things.

Pistol...


Pistol
Location: FL
Reply # 83
Date: Jul 19, 2009 - 3:05 PM EST Ratas y Ratones
Hey! Who you calling an old uh an old.... I forget. Let me go back and read your insulting post again.

~~~

Huh ?

Insulting ? No way !

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Or was that flatulence?

As you have at least one year seniority over me, maybe more, I am totally free to "old fogey" you, any time the need arises.

Crapperoonie Indeed!

And here's another Hoosierism, gratis, of course...


" Crime'nItaly " [ Please note this is one word, not three. ]

I will not venture into etiology as it is self evident.

" Your Mission, should you decide to accept it, is to use that term in a meaningful statement. "

"The secretary will disavow all knowledge [ easy for them to do ] , and of course this tape will self destruct in 30 seconds..."
Phhhttt. [ Told ya. ]

gayle: "...would probably still do the

same dumb stuff and say the same dumb things."

No doubt you're right, based on the intellectually limited liberals right here on TH...




Anne of 3:21
Hi Sweetie

Its a great summer. My daughter had twin girls April first, great family reunion july 4th, anniversary getaway to AnnaMarie Island last week. All my travels have made my TH participation irregular. However, 9/10 ths of the time you or any of 10 or 15 like-minded folks say what i would say, only better.

As time goes by, and Barry gets in deeper, the trolls are becoming quieter and less relevant. Barry is shedding support at roughly the same rate unemployment is going up.

My memory is that you were of the opinion to hold the nose and vote McCain, vs my decision cry Havoc and loose the dogs... It will never be certain which was best, but one thing sure, Barry is going to own this crunch. Imagine if it'd been McCain. Do you think he would have been able to ward off the current mess?

The reason
Those bills, like the stimulus package go through without anyone given a chance to read is to prevent any opposition to be formed.

Only the Socialist Party have any knowledge as to what is in them and most of that is known only to the person adding the pork.

The stimulus money given out so far went to Obama's favorite group,...ACORN thugs. And if the truth comes out, i suspect the militant jihad group in Chicago who is now coming out of the cracks.

Panetta,The CIA & Dear Leader
When the Obama Administration was being cobbled together,earlier,it raised the eyebrows of anyone paying attention to the appointees.

None of them knew one iota about what they were appointed for. They could play 'Musical Chairs' and do a switcheroo and it would make no difference. Also,most were crooks.

This was no accident. Obamas' backers give him the orders and Obama passes them down to the so-called cabinet leaders. They are department heads in name only.

The left would like to convict Cheney of something. They will keep trying. Also,why do we need the CIA? About all our only real enemies are Muslim. Obama will certainly let nothing happen to THEM.

What am i laughing about
My wife just called up, What are you laughing about? I truly enjoy the mental give and take here, that's what. And irony and incongruity tend to trigger my funny bone, even when inappropriate. But politically, its hardly funny. Its mostly wait for events. I have always felt time would solve the AGW issue. Now i believe Barry has initiated programs of uncontrollable inherent power which will proceed inexorably to the usual conclusions. An avalance proceeds downhill until it expends itself on low ground. We are riding that avalanche. My attention now is following interest rates, dollar value attrition, the housing/rent market, and hoping to get something of value for my dollars while they still buy something. Perhaps some of the Barry voters who approve of his moves can guide me. You folks are all getting rich, right? Isn't that why you are so firmly in his corner?

Pistol: CONGRATULATIONS! :-)
Pistol: CONGRATULATIONS! :-)
What exciting news! I hope at least one of the girls is a "pay-back" or "revenge" child. I had to wait for my daughter's second before she had one...

It's just so much fun to sit back and laugh and laugh at the antics.


I do believe you're right... "Barry is shedding support at roughly the same rate unemployment is going up."

However, once people begin to realize that the "effective unemployment" rate (taking into account the number of people who are not collecting unemployment benefits and those who have been cut back to part time) the unemployment rate is actually up to 18.7%, Obozo's support will far surpass the unemployment rate.

On the surface it appears that he's clueless, but in reality, I have no doubt that he KNOWS EXACTLY what he's doing... and we're on the fast track to Socialism-Marxism.


Yes, your memory is correct.. I was "of the opinion to hold the nose and vote McCain, vs my decision cry Havoc and loose the dogs..."

Time will what "theory" was correct, but I'm very worried that Obozo will have driven this country passed the point of return or saving by 2012.

I'm still of the mindset that had McCain been elected (and I was never a big McCain fan, as you recall) no matter what he did or didn't do, we would be able to recover.


Democrats are Weak on National Security
This is why Democrats, every election, every year, are perceived to be weak on matters of national security.

Their outrage is false and contrived. This is nothing but a partisan witch hunt (smells a lot like the Valerie Plame fiasco) designed to get back at Bush and Cheney, without regard to its consequences.

Democrats real enemy is Republicans, while Republicans enemy is terrorists. Democrats live and breathe to destroy Republicans.

Pistol: Sorry, I did mean...


'Obozo's 'shedding' support will far surpass the unemployment rate."

But, I also suspect that he won't care.

Obozo's little speech last Fri., where he said the those who are opposed the his National (Socialized) Health care bill will be disappointed because it WILL be passed be the end of the year... was very scary, being spoken like a dictator he sees himself.


Anne
My dad felt like my kids were payback for the children we were. But my daughter raised herself. Except for a fiendish glee in torturing baby sitters, she always behaved far above her age, never went through peer group nonsense. My son more than amde up for her good behavior. Her twins are already obviously going to be yin and yan. They are fraternal, one quiet and cool like her mom, the other brash and squirmy like her uncle. Grandchildren are so much fun.

As usual your comments make sense. I was thinking relative comparisons of support and unemployment. Unemployment doubles from f to ten per cent. Disapproval doubles from 17 to 35 per cent. Its quibbling about the main point that they are connected. Apparently there are 2 main schools of Barry agenda. You seem to agree with those who think he knows his moves will crash the economy and that's what he wants. I think he's more a Castro type who actually believes collectivist rule from the top can work. Either way we are in deep doo doo.

Al-Qaida Cicada
Well, isn't it special? The Dims - like Kerry and whasisname, the messiah - claimed during the campaigns that they'd have gotten bin Laden by now. But then, they'd probably want to meet with him first, to try to see if diplomacy would work.

Al-Qaida Cicada II
So the Dims have let it be known that al-Qaida isn't really in their sites. They let the cicada burrow underground, to be revived at another time. Meanwhile, they want to bomb rubble, knowing full-well that the cicada burrows deep enough to evade the elements.

So much for the messiah's first wartime test.
Looks like Jimmy Carter has a son, after all.

Jim
Democrats don't mind war, and all that goes with it, or the killing of Bin Laden, as our Predators prove. The question is, should a vice president make up a secret assassination team and have do his bidding. And, we know how Cheyne worked. He'd have so and so tortured, names rambled out, probably not the line up for the Green By Packers, and he's have them killed. We don't know if he kept his list for just foreign nations and just for AQ types, but maybe for any of his enemies.

Others countries do operate this way too, Cheyne and Bush were not alone.

Uganda
Cuba
Tanzania
Mozambique

Pistol: Yes, they are great fun...

My daughter's second, and only girl, is very much like her "Uncle Aminal" (Adam, whom she adores) in that she inherited the "absolutely NO fear" gene.

I have to admit, I really am the world's worst grandmother...I draw the line at spurting blood, compound fractures, and the house on fire, but short of any one of those three things, anything they do is just fine, and pretty much adorable :-) .

My daughter sounds very much like yours.

Actually, I think at this point, he intends to crash the economy at least enough to bring the country to it's knees... and at that point he could very well start the "collectivist rule from the top..."

You are right though, we're in very deep doo doo already, and to think that it only took him less than six months! UGH!




Anne in PA
I have not seen Wanger Wobbie around for awhile. Did he turn out to be the political activist arrested in Colorado for impersonating a naval officer?

anderson659: You're right, it's been

some time since we've seen WW_IQ29.

You know, you could be right. He could very well have turned out to be the political activist arrested in Colorado for impersonating a Naval officer.

But we still have daft, who is just as mentally debilitated and insufferably stupid. UGH!


Anne in PA - On Strandlof
This guy sure sounds like Wobbie. A Democratic political activist, impersonating a naval officer, claiming to be injured in 9/11, claimed to serve in Iraq. A Marine, and more.

He currently is in jail. He is also a same sex activist (surprise) an excerpt:

"Strandlof called his roommate, Jeremy Weed — a man he listed as next of kin in police documents. Weed would later move with him to Colorado, where Strandlof identified him to acquaintances as his boyfriend until a recent breakup"

Strandlof also has done prison time. He does have a military family.


The gang that couldn't shoot straight
Debra J. Saunders has her facts wrong in the first paragraph placing any stock in the remainder of her column.

She states that "After all, why bankroll an intelligence agency if you can't use it to kill an enemy against whom America has declared war?"

America was created by and is defined by the US Constitution. To be at 'war' it must be declared by the Constitution. That was not done, therefore, we are NOT at war.




anderson
Thanks for the gossip. Hey, Days of Our Lives is just starting, grab your cookies and enjoy.

Poor Pathetic Patrick...

Actually, Saunders has her facts SPOT ON in the first paragraph, as well as the remainder of her column.

PPP says, "To be at 'war' it must be declared by the Constitution. That was not done, therefore, we are NOT at war."

Well, the Constitution doesn't declare war. Congress does, and Congress did, and Congress has voted to fund it.


Geeze, no wonder Obozo got elected... there are countless uneducated, simply stupid people out there who voted for him.

I bet PPP actually thinks the Constitution provides authority for Obozo to do what he's done since 1-20-09. HA HA HA


Bring on the investigation
As a Conservative,I certainly hope Pelosi/Reed fire up a number of investigations on this issue.

Since most of the American people actually like their country and understand the danger's Al-Queda pose, they are thrilled the government is trying to eliminate their top leaders like Bin-Laden.

Nothing helps Republicans more than the Democrats again proving they are weak-kneed when it comes to defending the country.

Patrick is correct
Patrick is correct in saying we do not have a declaration of war.. A declaration of war is a specific legal document and it applies to nations. It is not a mere formality nor is it archaic, since the war declaration outlines WHO we are at war against and WHY. Further, only nation states can be involved in a war by this narrow definition. You can't fight a "War on Terror" or a "War on Drugs" Constitutionally. The way to deal with terrorists Constitutionally is by letters of marque and reprisal. Of course, Congress (both Republicans and Democrats) has not been interested in Constitutionality since John Adams signed the Alien and Sedition Acts. The Constitution is merely a piece of paper that is used by the government to deceive its subjects into thinking that the subjects have a voice. And BTW, the CIA is NOT authorized by the Constitution to begin with.

bozonians keep on keeping on
Vice-president Cheney is wise to maintain his silence and give the DC Democrats all the rope they need to hang themselves by next election. How revealing of priorities: Democrats and their MSM toadies more interested in taking out Cheney than bin Laden et al. How much dumber can the bozonistas get?

Well, be patient. There's sure to be more to come from the Durbinoids.


Why are we not killing more terrorists?
The fact that anyone is even outraged that there is a program to kill terrorists trying to kill Americans is yet more evidence that our country is sissy-fying by the minute.

If this country does not start manning up, so to speak, we will go the way of Rome. Where is the ego? We cannot all be a bunch of fat little princesses munching on ho-hos and yammering about Jon & Kate.

And yes, I thought the joke about the soldier saving the two bullets for Nancy Pelosi in the elevator was hysterical.

The Ballad Of Timothy Geithner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAdJLLmpWBU

Anne-PPP post
Sorry. You are recalling a history that has never happened. Congress has not declared a war since 1941. In the current non war, they told the president, do what you think is needed. But that is not even close to a Constitutional declaration of war.

You mischaracterized my political postion. At no point did I indicate that I supported Obama's positions. I don't. A majority of his actions are Socialist and have no Constitutional authority.

The Obama Healthcare Plan


Obama Health Plan to Cover 12 Million Illegals

Sunday, July 19, 2009 6:32 PM

By: David A. Patten Article Font Size

On Friday, Democrats moved one step closer to giving free health insurance to the nation’s estimated 12 million illegal aliens when they successfully defeated a Republican-backed amendment, offered by Rep. Dean Heller, R-Nev., that would have prevented illegal aliens from receiving government-subsidized health care under the proposed plan backed by House Democrats and President Barack Obama.

The House Ways and Means Committee nixed the Heller amendment by a 26-to-15 vote along straight party lines, and followed this action by passing the 1,018-page bill early Friday morning by a 23-to-18 margin, with three Democrats voting against the plan.

The Democratic plan will embrace Obama’s vision of bringing free government medical care to more than 45 million uninsured people in America – a significant portion of whom are illegal aliens.

According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, costs under the Obama plan being proposed by the House will saddle citizens with $1.04 trillion in new federal outlays over the next decade


Wendy
Date: Jul 19, 2009 - 9:40 PM EST
Why are we not killing more terrorists?
The fact that anyone is even outraged that there is a program to kill terrorists trying to kill Americans is yet more evidence that our country is sissy-fying by the minute.

---------------------------------

The controversy is less about the stated objective to 'kill terrorist' ; no one has a problem with that.

It is about having a secret hit squad that only the President (cheney) knew about and controlled.

Recently it was revealed that the no warrant wiretapping had gathered and maintained data way beyond this 'hunt for terrorist' and it wasn't by accident.

This 'hit squad' could have been used to target anyone or any group Cheney wanted them to target for any reason... Without oversight that is the danger.

We must have Oversight to make sure that abuses like those committed by the FBI and CIA prior to the mid 70's will not occur again.

IMHO, I had always assumed that a vetted and authorized squad configured between the mission impossible force and rambo had already existed. Possibly because I used to watch way to much television.


Dim divisive diversion
This party has shown its true colors for some time now. The Clintonistas dragged the country through the mud to deflect their phony Americanism and Oblaba just takes them to the ultimate level of divisiveness and anti-Americanism. What is so ridiculous is the rhetoric to proclaim just the opposite. Oblaba is just the most inspired American from our glorius history if you listen to him enough.

Now that his actions have exposed his true makeup Americans are turning and having buyers remorse hence the call to Panetta to go after Cheney. Now we have the ultimate comeback. If you didn't know about tracking down al qaeda how did we get Ouday and Qusay, Zarqawi and the car full of Yemen Cole conspirators and the Pakistani UAV attacks? Its all part of the same plan. That's the problem with the dimwits. They can keep to their agenda but they have real problems when we keep to ours and then, HORRORS! they never heard of it before. Note to PMM (Propaganda Media Machine aka msm) - Get this on the six o'clock news

Sky Pete
As I have told several people here, if the fact that warrentless wire tapping and eavesdropping on phone conversations surprises you then you should read a book titled Puzzle Palace. You won't be surprised by anything the government does again. Think every section within the government has a set budget? Guess again!! If you think that your phone calls are not monitored, just mention what the mob does to a squealer and the president in the same conversation and the same sentence. you may not get any action, but then again, when they show up on your doorstep don't be surprised!

Ann
It couldn't be WWI.Q. 29 they arrested. He would be too quick to fly away in his Wal-mart special. They could never catch him! The part about him and Weed does sound like him and Daft though!!!

Anne
"I'm still of the mindset that had McCain been elected (and I was never a big McCain fan, as you recall) no matter what he did or didn't do, we would be able to recover."

You are probably right about McCain, we would have been able to recover, but he would have meddled as well. He would have had different priorities that would have screwed things up. Cap and Trade would have gone through and he would have passed universal amnesty by now. That said, I had to vote for him because he's just a statist instead of a Marxist like Obama. It's pretty sad when the only choices you get are cr@p and cr@p that has been sprayed with deodorizer.

Methusela
The big problem with a McCain administration would have been a steepening decline. Not so deep and rapid as Barry's mess, but much worse from this standpoint. He would have continued the lose/loe situation where conservatism is not utilized, but gets blamed for Progressive policy. Having listened to 8 years of attack on Bush as an out of control tax and spend war-monger, can you imagine the mindset of the voters after 4 more years? Barry, or any other Dem sould be inevitable. We'd be where we are now. 4 years postponement would not help as much as 4 more years of unjust blame for conservatism would hurt. I agree recovery from Barry is problematical. It will be painful at best, maybe impossible. It is always possible to vote oneself into a fatal situation. Hitler was the most able and popular politician of the 1930's.

Misdirected
Well, no suprise here. The CIA, by charter, is banned from operating within our borders. Since we apparently couldn't find the worst of the nation's enemies overseas, perhaps someone had the idea that we were looking in the wrong place.

Maybe America's worst enemies can be found in the District of Corruption, somewhere in the vicinity of Pennsylvania Avenue, between the 1500 and 1700 block.

When?
When will Time Magazine select an "unnamed" source as Person of the Year? Unnamed sources seem to dominate the political landscape and wield tremendous influence on the thinking of the American people and the world at large.

It stands to reason though that if such a person is selected, he or she must remain unnamed.

Declarations of War and Constitution
In our first war against Muslims attacking US interests abroad the Congress gave the US President an authorization to "use force" and NOT a declaration of war. The president then used US Navy and Marines to launch a successful attack on the Muslim nations that supported the terrorism of the day.

That President, in my opinion, knew way more about the intent of the constitution then anyone writting here today. Why do I say that? because that President was Thomas Jefferson and he shaped the Constitution.

So, in my opinion, the war being fought in Iraq and Afghanistan, two fronts in the same war, both authorized by Congress, are constitutional. They are the same as Jefferson would have done.

On another note I feel for those Patriots that work in the CIA and Homeland security administrations. TO work for someone who obviously does not like what you do like Panetta and that $#!$@$ Napolitano requires some true professionalism on their part. At least the Army still has Sec Gates.

I retired so I only served a few months until it retirement was official under Pres Obama. A carreer I started under Reagan. Unfortunatly my Commission paperwork is signed by Clinton and my retirement paperwork is signed by Obama, grrrrrr

Medicare Recipients Screwed in ObamaPlan


MEDICARE RECIPIENTS TO LOSE $ 400,000,000,000 IN OBAMA'S HEALTH PLAN


Obama plans to cut Medicare funding by 400 Billion Dollars to subsidize his Health Insurance Plan.

Medicare recipients will be faced with rationing and will move from the front of the line to the back.

That 400 Billion Dollars will be used to add over 11 Million Illegal Aliens to the health care rolls.

Most Medicare recipients are unaware of this.


HYPOCRITES & OBAMA'S HEALTH INSURANCE PLAN

AARP is backstabbing those they're suppose to protect by not informing their members of the 400 Billion Dollar Medicare cut.

In fact the liberal AARP is backing Obama's plan to the detriment of their members.

Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida is also going to backstab all those Medicare recipients in Florida that he represents.

Sen. Bill Nelson will vote for the Obama plan & cut in Medicare funds.

For those of you who are members of AARP or residents of Florida, tell AARP or Sen. Nelson that they are Backstabbing Hypocrites.

Also that you are going to resign from AARP or not vote for Sen. Nelson.



Why would
the CIA want to tell those brainless idiots in Washington their top-secret plans to eliminate our enemys?
Why do we have an agency called Central Intelligenc Agency if it is reguired to announce to idiots like pellosi, reid, barny and worst of all, the a3s- kissing egplant w/ears and his so-called proud to be an American wife?
That's like telling the world and our enemys all our plans.
All of Congress should be ashamed of themselves for allowing the eggplant w/ears to do what he is doing.
Whatever happened to self respect, nome of the above have any.

enough is enough
I don't often side with Cheneys' ideas but how else will we win any future action if we tell everyone about what we're preparing to do??? We won't it's that simple, for people to believe that we can negotiate settlements is really abstact. These people with whom we're at war against are cowards who won't be covinced until we grant so many of them their wish to meet the vigins....You can believe me, htat when they realize that our forces will kill them and start to eradicate them their ideas will change. They assimilate our society thru the use of our own laws and mistaken beliefs that we shouldn't go to their level...excuse me , too many servicemembers have gone to their grave with this policy. We don't need martyrs we need victors, they should go and kill all offending parties and those who tacidly aide and abet them thru use of shelter, funding, food etc.... China sits back and laughs at our 'legal' attitudes..fools believe all this liberal crap ....spare the bullet and ruin the world, kill 'em.

Honest Question for Taft and Liberals
Taft writes "The question is, should a vice president make up a secret assassination team and have do his bidding"

The answer is such a team should never be formed or go operational without Presidentail Authorization and Intel Commitee knowledge. But since the team was never Operational the point is moot.

So here are my questions,

1. Should the CIA and other agencies, "brain storm" unique and creative methods for destroying groups like Al-Q?

2. If they come up with an 'idea' should they evaluate the risks and feasability of the plan weighing the pros and cons and chances of success. making modifications to the plan to attempt to figure out the best way to accomplish the intended mission?

3. Should they brief Congress on every 'idea' they come up with or only those plans they think may work before they go Operational?

From every account this plan was only in the idea stage so in my opinion and according to what I have seen of the Law was NOT required to be briefed.

In the Army we have the Military Decision Making Process. (see FM 101-5)

Decision making defined "Decision making is knowing if to decide, then when and what to decide. It includes understanding the conse-quence of decisions. "

Part of the process is "course of action developement" this stage of the process is where plans are formulated and looked at for developement. The acceptable plans are then weighed against each other and the Commander decides which one to go with. The use of "hit teams" apparently never made it out of this stage so why did it need to be briefed?

4. Since the plan was only under development by the "EXPERTS" in the field, what benifit would there have been in briefing Congress?

5. What benifit is there to the country to investigate this while we are still trying to kill AL-Q high level operatives?


Tinsldr2
From what I read though, it sounds like it was operational and did cause problems.

", a three star admiral named [William H.] McRaven, ordered a stop to it because there were so many collateral deaths. Under President Bush's authority, they've been going into countries, not talking to the ambassador or the CIA station chief, and finding people on a list and executing them and leaving. That's been going on, in the name of all of us."

Furthermore, I don't think such a special team would have to check in with congress every day but they should know of its existence and it should not break any US laws or treaties we may have signed.

Hey Tnsldr 2
Who gives the command guidance?

How would it work?
...National Security Act requires the CIA to "keep the congressional intelligence committees fully and currently informed of all covert actions".

There would be no covert actions since liberal pols would call the MSM and tell them all the details, including the names of proposed targets, which would make them overt actions.

pb #2: On 9/11, the terrorists did not attack the Capitol because about half the people in it were theirs, and they didn't want to lose their representation by killing the others.

Chainsaw #3: We would gain too much for that to happen.

Eileen #6: That will be done by Obamba's Gestapo, with Gitmo prisoners as officers and Mexican illegal aliens as foot soldiers.

JD's... #28: Don't forget that the Navy also had Hanoi John Kerry.

jax33 #32: As Ron White says, "You can's fix stupid".

In the TV show "Charmed", Obamba was called "The Source of All Evil".

None #50: Your last question is what happened at the WH on 9/11: The target was not there.

Genuine... #57: It's now 32 czars. The Healthcare Plan Czar will be called a Commisssioner.

leewolf #76: "Statesmen" such as Obamba are known as "surrenderer traitors".

Taft and sources and walter
Taft please give your source for the story that the team was operational. Everything I have said say's otherwise. Admiral McRaven is currently the head of the Joint Special Operations Command which would control military but not CIA teams. Of course the two work closely together.

If you are talking about Special Ops teams in countries such as Iraq and and Afghanistan then yes that is happening. Do you have a problem with that? If you are talking about Special Ops teams going in to countries like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, England, and probably Pakistan I have seen no such account.

To walter, Military Commanders give guidance to make military decisions that they are authorized to make according to level of Command. Not sure to what that question refered? As a Company Commander (the lowest level of Command) I gave guidance to my company based on guidance I recieved from the battalion commander. Ultimate Command Authority of course comes from the President. But the Decision making process the Army uses is not much different at all levels of Command. I would think the CIA uses a similar decision making model.

I know most large corporations have a stylized decision making process that uses similar processes but diferent terminology.

Congress Should NOT know
Every time Congress is told about something, they 'leak' it to the news media so they can get some free "face time". They don't care what it does to our country's security or the safety of our troops; they are concerned only about themselves.

I don't blame the CIA a bit for not informing Congress. Congress should NOT be told - anything.

A Friend in Desert Storm
When Desert Storm was fought years ago now, I had a friend in an artillery unit over there. They were preparing a fire mission on an Iraqi convoy when an officer came sailing out of the command post yelling "cease fire!"

When they finally found out why, it seemed that they believed that Saddam was with the convoy and they didn't want to harm him.

When asked why, the officer told the soldiers that intelligence (and particularly Congress) was afraid that if Saddam was harmed that the terrorists might try to assassinate some Congressmen in return. All the soldiers believed that would be a win-win situation.

I've come to agree with them.

Tinsldr2
I just saw your response,( I went for my morning run,) and will find my source.

Tinsldr2
You might be right afterall, the evidence, that it was up and running is not conclusive at all. My statement earier came from Seymour Hersch, who has not always been correct in his reporting. I didn't know this either..

"Senior Obama Official Backs Cheney and C.I.A., Says Concealment of Assassin Program Legal"

However, some people wonder just what Bush meant by this statement.

"Go read George Bush's January 2003 State of the Union speech," he said. "He's talking and he says we've captured and detained 3,000 al Qaeda members and other terrorists—crazy numbers—and said some of them will never bother us anymore. And Congress cheers."

Bush's full quote then was:

"All told, more than 3,000 suspected terrorists have been arrested in many countries. And many others have met a different fate. Let's put it this way: They are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies."

45Caliber

As far as congress goes, they are generally a lumbering and pathetic bunch, and maddening at times, but its just got to be, the alternative is worse.

Tinsldr2
That source is the Globe!!!! They also claim most of our senators and congressmen are aliens from outer space!!!

Taft "but how"
Taft, good response but "All told, more than 3,000 suspected terrorists have been arrested in many countries. And many others have met a different fate. Let's put it this way: They are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies"

This was given two years after the start of the war in Afghanistan so yes we killed many there. And it also does not in anyway infer that we had teams sneaking around countries assasinating people. yes CIA and other nations inteligence agencies assisted law enforcement agencies in arresting/detaining Al Q in many countries but they had been doing that for years. That is different then the targeted assasinations that the plan talked about.

So I will agree that if they were conducting operations in the field than by protocall the congress should have been briefed (although I still think investigating it is foolish) but will you agree that if it was only in the planning stage and never rose to the level of an operation outside of a war zone then there was no need to brief congress?

Tinsldr2
"but will you agree that if it was only in the planning stage and never rose to the level of an operation outside of a war zone then there was no need to brief congress?"

Yes, I agree, and thanks for your information.

An issue?
The issue is so contradictory that it's not worth pursuing, but I'm sure Congress will.

Let me just say....
As an Illinoisian, I am ashamed that Obama and Durbin represent my great state.......

Sky Pete #116
Actually, we need to be careful about who we elect to congress and President. We need honest, dutiful men and oversight becomes unnecessary. With THIS administration I would require at least three oversight committees for every position plus the committees. Even at that the country will get screwed.

Lets gang up on Rich Cheney, get reel
Republicans are devious and not be trusted. Great sound bites but is it truth or is it Smear Democratic truth. You decide.

Counter terrorism is secretive by nature; the effectiveness of its outcome is the element of surprise. This is not the Marques of Queensbury rules of war. CIA, Counter Terrorism units and Home Land Security and even your local SWAT should never be under the “May I Rule”. Do you think that the al-Qaeda work by exposing there every move? They just train for there kills.

Not all training is effective and some is no longer used only from changing in objectives, this is where you get the words “Suspended”. It is not a code word

The reel point of combat ops is not out of a book at Amazon.com Training for effective ways of operating in countries or parts of the world who use non standard techniques to persecute there people or fight there battles, requires different modifications of training. Training in combat tactics, handling weapons, marksmanship, intelligence, camouflage, communications and other assets to numerous to describe requires specialists. This takes months and years dependent on the need being served by the Agent or soldier.

Lets look at who does what. The Senate and Congress are charged with oversight not outlining the strategy of training. I sense that Debra Saunders needs a little more information about this specialized training. The CIA or Homeland security never was on a “bless me plan” for its operations. This published article is sounding like yet another attempt of the Obama Media LLC, DNC and Pelosi crowd to obfuscate the reel issues of today’s looting of America by this administration using the Cap and Trade and Health Care bill.

This is the priority not if Leon Paneta or Rich Cheney SAID “MAY I”

Even Obama saw the merit of security by not publishing pictures of GTMO
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