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Sunday, June 14, 2009
Debra J. Saunders :: Townhall.com Columnist
Armed and Extreme, but Buried in Briefs
by Debra J. Saunders
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After the shooting deaths of abortion provider Dr. George Tiller last month and security guard Stephen T. Johns at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum last week, I knew it was only a matter of time before I would receive an e-mail like one sent from Ann Pinkerton of Oakland: "Several weeks ago, I wrote you because I thought you dismissed the Homeland Security Report on right-wing extremism unfairly. Since then, Dr. George Tiller has been shot and killed, and a security guard at the Holocaust Museum has been shot and killed. Both of these acts were acts of right-wing terrorism on domestic soil. Have you reassessed your opinions in light of these attacks?"

*** Special Offer ***

The short answer is no. For one thing, Pinkerton didn't mention the Monday shooting that killed Pvt. William Andrew Long, a military recruiter, and wounded Pvt. Quinton Ezeagwula outside the Army-Navy Career Center in Little Rock, Ark. The man charged in the shooting, Abdulhakim Muhammad, told the Associated Press, "I do feel I'm not guilty.

"I don't think it was murder, because murder is when a person kills another person without justified reason." The former Carlos Bledsoe defined the shooting as an "act, for the sake of God, for the sake of Allah, the Lord of all the world, and also retaliation on U.S. military."

Now I understand why Pinkerton might have missed the left-wing shooting of a military recruiter. The Tiller assassination garnered three stories, an editorial and a column (mine) over the following two days, and a week later a front-page story, whereas The Chronicle ran two national briefs about the military-recruiter attack, on Page A5 one day, and Page A6 the next. Other media underplayed the domestic terrorist attack as well.

For me, the reason is pretty obvious: Stories that reinforce journalists' political beliefs rate the front page or top of their newscasts; stories that do not are not considered big news. Chronicle Managing Editor Steve Proctor told me he disagrees: "People do not make decisions like that based on their political beliefs."

Oh, and when shooters -- take convicted Beltway snipers John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo -- espouse anti-American, pro-terrorist politics, news stories focus on their mental health or personal issues, not their destructive political philosophy. When the feds arrest Islamic extremists, the press reports that an informer may have entrapped the would-be bombers, rather than explore the twisted thinking that motivated fledgling terrorists.

Painful as it is, I have to admit that Scott Roeder, who is charged with murdering Tiller, is a creature of the right. He is a nut, but a right-wing nut. And for that reason, anti-abortion activists must shun all like-believers who espouse or condone violence.

And by the way, the April Department of Homeland Security report to which Pinkerton referred, "Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment," served no law enforcement value because it failed to name any dangerous groups, but instead targeted suspect political thought -- such as "groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as abortion or immigration." If the memo had named "Dangerous Activists" or outlined criminal behavior which law enforcement could prosecute -- as an earlier memo on left-wing animal-rights and environmental extremists did -- then the memo could have been useful, not heavy-handed and sophomoric.

But I reject the idea that James W. von Brunn, the alleged Holocaust museum gunman and known white supremacist and anti-Semite, is right wing -- as well as the implication that racism and conservatism somehow are connected. The KKK is not welcome at any conservative event I've ever attended.

Heidi Beirich, director of research for the Southern Poverty Law Center, told me she understands my frustration in seeing von Brunn's bigotry pegged as right-thinking. "Being a racist is not part of mainstream politics," she acknowledged. And: "I wouldn't call it conservative. I call it right-wing extremism." The anti-Semitism von Brunn espoused was championed by conservatives before World War II, she explained, and men like von Brunn "self-identify as conservatives."

Von Brunn probably thinks he is a patriot, too -- but that doesn't mean anyone should call him a patriotic extremist. If anything, von Brunn seems to have arrived at the very fringe where far left and far right unite. According to Politico's Ben Smith, von Brunn believed George W. Bush may have been in on the Sept. 11 attacks and the FBI found the address of the neoconservative Weekly Standard on a piece of paper associated with him. The FBI also found a note in his car that said, "Obama was created by Jews."

On the left last week, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright told columnist David Squires of the Daily Press in Virginia that "the Jewish vote, the A-I-P-A-C vote"" is "controlling" President Obama. And: "Them Jews ain't going to let him talk to me." Flabby minds think alike.

There is such a thing as being so far to the right or to the left that the only destination you can attain with any certainty is the bottom.

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As "extremism" is a great concern
To the obama in America, he joins the islamic extremists all over the world.


Obama chose the Islamic university of Al Azhar to deliver his speech to Muslims.

Obama speaks:

He said, “The tension has been fed by colonialism that denied rights and opportunities to many Muslims, and a Cold War in which Muslim-majority countries were too often treated as proxies.”

If those were the only reasons, how can we explain Islamic terrorism in India, Indonesia, Somalia, Egypt and the Philippines? These countries were never colonialists nor did they treat Muslims as proxies.



Obama continued:

America and Islam are not exclusive. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles - principles of justice and progress; tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.

This is not true! Islamic justice does not extend to non Muslims who according to the Quran must be treated harshly.

The Quran 48:29, says “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are harsh against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other.”

9:14, Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, and heal the breasts of Believers...

America's islamic "president".

http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/06/12/americas-islamist-pr esident/

He is such a liar

Debra
Stories that reinforce beliefs and politics are not exclusively sought by journalists and the MSM. Liberals live their lives that way, as we see examples of this on TH columns everyday!

talent scout,
Right on!

It is absurd
to attempt to disconnect right-wing conservatism from racism.

If you just look at the history, racism has virtually always been a right-wing attitude. The best example is of course the Nazis who were highly conservative (despite Goldberg's silly revisionist efforts) Many more can be found in conservatives' history of problems with civil rights, immigration, etc., not to mention their close relation to racist militia groups.

Beyond history, if you look at the actual scientific evidence you see the same story. This is evidence collected from the field of psychology across the last 50 years. As would be expected, compared to liberals, conservatives show more prejudice, intolerance, bigotry, and racism.
These traits are not limited to the extremist right-wingers, but are also evident in less extreme conservatives.

It's time that conservatives faced the fact that their ideology does tend to promote bigotry and violence.


dr dougie #4: Actually, the ONLY

thing that's absurd is YOUR disconnect with REALITY and HISTORY.



Dr. Douglas, yet another bone-headed
diatribe with no basis of fact. Hitler used the distrust of Jews as a rallying cry for his Fascist political views just as today's liberals are using the distrust of Jews and "right-wing" nut cases to rally around Obama's Fascist political views. He used religion in the same manner as Obama is using religion today...as a political lever. Oh you do remember the Right Reverand Jeramiah "GodDamn American" Wright don't you?

To say that conservatives show more prejudice, intoerance, bigotry, and racism than liberals is laughable. Not only is his statement ludicrous, it has no basis in fact. To believe that organizations like the KKK are conservative movements is too stupid for words. Hello? Have you heard of KKK Byrd?

The only president who has more blacks in his administration than Bush is Obama, and Bush's cabinet members weren't all verifiable tax cheats. And to say that Obama isn't a racist is also laughable. His personal choice as pastor and mentor for over twenty years was Rev. Wright. His wife is admittedly a racist.
Conservatives have consistently been shown by irrefutible facts to give more to charities than liberals. Liberals are more likely to be homosexuals, tax cheats, baby killers, and supporters of Muslim terrorists than ANY conservative.

Dr. Douglas, why don't you go pound sand and spew your ignorance somewhere else? You are embarrassing yourself on this forum.

Some perspective please...


Tiller's murder received 90 percent more news coverage than the crime against Pvt. William Long.

Little, if any mention was given to the fact that Tiller's killer, Scott Roeder, had a long and DOCUMENTED history of mental illness.

Likewise, little, if any mention has been given to the fact that von Brunn had a long and DOCUMENTED history of mental illness.

And the von Brunn story will go away now that we know... from his own website, that was really a socialist... leftist.

"Von Brunn: firmly in the camp of the left, not the right"

http://boards.msn.com/MSNBCboards/thread.aspx?threadid=1146 404


A little MORE perspective please

Remember, Tiller's murder received 90 percent more news coverage than the crime against Pvt. William Long.

Well, it wasn't actually a "crime" as much as it was an act of "domestic terrorism" committed by Abdulhakim Muhammad, formerly known a Carlos Bledsoe.

Remember, Tiller's murder received 90 percent more news coverage.

Flash back to 2/12/2009 when Muslim TV exec, Muzzammil Hassan, BEHEADED his wife, Aasiya Z. Hassan... And oh yeah, he did it right here in the USA, just outside Buffalo, NY.


As of Feb. 22, 2009 neither ABC, NBC, CBS, nor NPR had mentioned a word about it, and as far as I'm aware, only FOX and TH have mentioned it since.

Is there a perhaps a pattern here???



BTW, http://www.JihadWatch.org is an excellent source to keep up on what the MSM won't tell us.


Right wing?
The Nazi party--the National Socialist party--was conservative? Socialism is not generally considered a conservative value.
It was supported by conservatives in the US?
Hardly.
Margaret Sanger
Joseph P. Kennedy
Charles Lindberg
Not conservatives.
Racists? It was Democrats who fought civil rights legislation.
Try to deal with facts and not feelings.

dairyfarmermom: Well said!

(BTW.. dairyfarmer.. UP-state NY?)

Extreme Democrats on the loose
Now that the blogs have exposed Von Brunn as an extreme left wing democrat you will not here one more word of it in the media. Whats the score now,right wing kills admitted Baby killer, Muslim convert kills innocent soldier, extreme left wing socialist kills innocent guard. I'll let you figure out the moral equivalency but it is pretty clear to me.

Oh no you don't Debra
"...Now I understand why Pinkerton might have missed the left-wing shooting of a military recruiter...."

The killings of the doctor and the soldier were carried out by religious terrorists both are definitely right wing from the gitgo. How the heck can you even think to imply that Muslim extremists are left wing???? LMAO They believe exactly what the christian extremists believe. And they ALL kill because they failed to convince society to do their bidding. So you right wing types keep winding up extremists and demonstrating daily just how anti-American you are.

joel the loon spewing morning hate
"Date: Jun 14, 2009 - 6:49 AM EST
America's Most Wanted
When the time comes that Obama sends the FBI to arrest those of us that believe in Liberty, I want to be on the Most Wanted List..."

Joel you are anti-American and anti-Constitution. You talk like a frightened and timed little man sitting in yellowed y-fronts. Of course you want to be on a most wanted list because that means someone just might notice you for something/anything.

"...I want my dad to go into the post office and see a poster saying: "Joel-‘De Oppresso Liber’ wanted for defending the Constitution. $25,000,000.00 Reward-Dead or Alive." He would be so proud."

LMAO the damp dreams of the ineffective person LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL

Oh no you don't doofass-the-stupid!

The killing of the doctor Tiller was carried out by Scott Roeder, who had a long and DOCUMENTED history of mental illness.

The killing in the Museum by von Brunn, who ALSO had a long and DOCUMENTED history of mental illness.


And the von Brunn story will go away now that we know... from his own website, that was really a socialist... leftist.

"Von Brunn: firmly in the camp of the left, not the right"

http://boards.msn.com/MSNBCboards/thread.aspx?threadid=1146 404

"ALL kill because they failed to convince society to do their bidding."

Gee doofass, would YOU know that because YOU, like Roeder and Von Brunn have a long history of mental illness?????????



"So you right wing types keep winding up extremists and demonstrating daily just how anti-American you are."

Sorry doofass, it's not the "right wing" that's shredding the Constitution... It's your boy Obozo..

Cheers. :-)






Right vs. left or liberty vs statism?
There is more than one dimension to the political spectrum. Our "leaders" would like us to only consider the left vs the right. But the other axis, liberty vs. statism is more important to our freedoms. Both Republicans and Democrats have been racing towards statism and away from freedom, leaving us no choice by more statism.

So the left wing media paint von Brunn as "right wing" when in reality he's a nut. It's just a distraction from important issues.

Go to http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html to see where you fit in this two dimensional political spectrum.

Joel: YUP, you know that you've got

the better of doofass-the-Marxist when he ignores you...

ESPECIALLY when it involves the Constitution!!


I've been asking doofass-the-incoherent since the end of Jan to tell us WHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION it gives Obozo the authority to do ANYTHING he's done with his stimulus pkg. and the govt take overs, etc., and so far he's ignored the question....


Why do you think that is???



Joel: Or perhaps because NOWHERE IN

the CONSTITUTION does it give Obozo the authority to do ANYTHING he's done with his stimulus pkg. and the govt takeovers, etc.

And perhaps because doofass-the-incoherent is just too much of a coward to admit that he's wrong, and that Obozo is violating and destroying our CONSTITUTION.

But then, doofass-the-incoherent isn't much on truth, justice, and the American way.





This. . .
After that democrat voter killed the soldier at the recruiting center, we learned that this muslim convert had been under surveillance by DHS and the FBI for a year prior. He had let his anti-American sentiments be known to other democrats and so was on a watch list.

Spokesmen for both departments said that the reasons they were unable to intervene were that the killer, a descendant of an illicit affair between a donkey and a Bedouin, had rights that the agencies were afraid of violating and that their intelligence resources were spread to thin.

Perhaps our intelligence agencies should divert some of their agents who are spying on white suburbanites who attend peaceable rallies, pay taxes, don’t suck the life out of the treasury by taking welfare, don’t commit crimes, do drugs or vote for communist politicians who backstab our troops. Maybe then they would have the ability to thwart democrat voters who murder other people because they resent having everything given to them.

. . . And That
American Islamocommunists will have to suffer the fact that we have weapons which we won’t give up and which will not be taken. These people will simply have to accept the fact that even with a complete hold on our Federal government, nothing can be done about this, regardless of how many abortionists are retired.

All registered democrats and all liberal pundits and commentators are responsible for the death of the army private. They encourage hatred of their opponents and applaud the death of our troops. This is a tradition among the left. It was this way 40 years ago when they waved the VC flag, cheered their Uncle Ho, made prank phone calls to families of troops to tell them their sons had been killed in action, and when they furnished information on POWs to the North Vietnamese through their conduits in Paris.

It is imperative that if there is a civil war in this country along ideological lines, that afterwards all registered democrats and their politicians be executed or put behind barbed wire at hard labor for the rest of their lives as punishment for what they’ve done. Their dead parents should also be dug up and hanged for good measure.

Wait! wimpy-limpy-shorty is asking

Joel "to be a Man?"

HA! Joel was MORE of a "MAN," a "GENTLEMAN," and a "SCHOLAR" when he was 12 years old than wimpy-limpy-shorty is now, or could ever hope to be!





Right on
This article is right on. It is very possible to go so far to the right or left that you end up in the same place. The only difference is the reasons why the person is doing it, but in the end, the outcome is the same.

Tupeorestupido:
I would guess that you are going to the feds hat in hand for a bailout.

Tupeorestupido:
If you expecr me to believe that, then you expectr me to believe court decisions are Bills of Attainder.

SFA1973: What say we check that out with

the RNC? ha ha ha ha

wimpy-limpy-shorty isn't smart enough to know about court decisions - Bills of Attainder, etc.



Tupeorestupido:
A bill by its very nature arises from either the House or the Senate, not the Coutrts, both on the Federal and State levels. Didn't you ever see "Schoolhouse Rock?"

Tupeorestupido:
I'll pass. Why should a committed Obamatron like you work for the RNC?

Well, off to work..
Back much later

the internal police force
that is called for by the messiah and god of the left doesn't seem to bother the trolls.

They have heard the clarion call from nappy and homeland security poombah that returning vets represent a threat to the country.But why did the messiah bring up the idea he needed his own security force.

Seems more likely that the communist wannabe dictator posing as president has other more devious intentions for america.

The left immediately tells the right they are paranoid for thinking ill of the messiah's plans, but if he had confidence in america and americans why would he need his own gestapo like force.

But the left in their blind obedience to the whims of the messiah will discover there are far more people who will stand up for america than stand aside for the messiah and his plans

No matter how long the left continues to villify the right. A change is coming and it starts with the 2010 elections when the dims in congress are reduced in numbers to overcome the damage they have allowed flap ears to do

Yeah, the idiots come out to play...

wimpy-limpy-shorty is here... Ugh!




Doctor Dog's @ss:
Hitler hated CHRISTIANITY as much as Judaism. Like von Brunn he regarded Christianity ss a Jewish plot to weaken the Nordic "aryan" ideal and adherence to the Norse gods who he idolized.
WHY did you think he love Wagner's Ring Cycle so much?

He NEEDED the support of the Lutheran Germans of the north and the Bavarian Catholics in the south or he'd have had NO army or navy and forget the Luftwaffe. Once he'd gotten Europe totally under his control his next step in his warped dream was to replace any Judeo-Christian beliefs with the old Norse pantheon.

His belief in Norse mythology was shown at the end. To him the end of Germany was merely Gotterdamerang (Twilight of the Gods) or Ragnarok, the Norse Apocalypse in which all existence is undone.

I've never known any kind of bigot other than an ignorant bigot. You are the archetype that proves the rule.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

joel the loon/Anne
Joel-De Oppresso Liber Location: NV
Reply # 33
Date: Jun 14, 2009 - 9:23 AM EST
Anne
"Joel: Or perhaps because NOWHERE IN

the CONSTITUTION does it give Obozo the authority to do ANYTHING he's done with his stimulus pkg. and the govt takeovers, etc..."

What is the purpose and definition of a preamble? What is the preamble to the US Constitution?

Joel the loon there is nothing to refute you are far right fringe anti-American and Anti-constitution. There are zero points to discuss with someone in your mental state.

joel the loon
"Date: Jun 14, 2009 - 10:45 AM EST...The Constitution is a contract between the several states to create a federal govt. ... If the States would refuse to allow the various unConstitutional federal agencies to operate, the feds could do nothing about it, unless they wish to finally admit that the Constitution is nothing to them,..."

LMAO this was settled in the 1860's you states' rights idiots want to try again? We won't be as nice as we were last time.

"... We will have become as guilty as the statists that expanded the power of the federal govt. The check and balance against abuses by federal govt is not the judiciary that is part of that same federal govt, but rather the States."

WRONG! No question whatsoever

doofass-the-Marxist: Another NON-answer

from the doof!

In fact, NOWHERE in the CONSTITUTION does it give Obozo the authority to do ANYTHING he's done with his stimulus pkg. and the govt takeovers, etc.


GET IT? NO-WHERE! ha ha ha

doof, you're getting pretty snarky.. You're not going to go von Brunn on us are you?


von Brunn, from his own website, that was really a socialist... leftist.

"Von Brunn: firmly in the camp of the left, not the right"

http://boards.msn.com/MSNBCboards/thread.aspx?threadid=1146 404




Hal Doofus The Nut at 10:59am
Hal Doofus: "What is the purpose and definition of a preamble? What is the preamble to the US Constitution?"

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

According to EVEN Wikipedia, "The Preamble does not assign powers to the federal government or provide specific limitations on government action. Due to the Preamble's limited nature, it has almost certainly never been relied upon by any court as the decisive factor in deciding a case, except regarding frivolous litigation."

You are a nutcase Doofus. AND THERE ARE ZERO POINTS TO DISCUSS WITH YOU. You are a mental midget and a hopeless alcholic. You need help. Please seek some soon.

You are so wrong as to be beyond belief. You have never studied the Constitution; or because you are being paid by the "Far Left", you choose to ignore it.

Doofus Bravado
"LMAO this was settled in the 1860's you states' rights idiots want to try again? We won't be as nice as we were last time."

Please start the "ball game" Doofus. You and your lunatic Liberal friends don't even know what end the bullet comes out.

Or are you using the imperial "we"? Because I doubt you have enough "b*lls" to try what you threatened in your above comment.

And by the way, if Conservatives do have to "start the ball game", we won't be as nice to idiotic traitors like yourself as we were after the Revolutionary War. If you want to take that as threat, you can. But it is not a threat, it is a promise.

You are nothing but "talk", Doofus. Greater men than you and me both fought and died for this country. And 99% of them were Conservatives, no matter what lies or claims you want to make otherwise.

You are a small little man Doofus. You were passed over in the USAF. You were reprimanded for your actions towards enlisted men. You constantly lie. I pray that eventually you realize the error of your ways.

People like yourself bear the responsibility should this whole thing get "bloody". You constantly belittle others. You do not debate; but instead insult. I hope you can live with yourself.

Why I never miss his posts
if I can help it.

JD's Handsome Son @ 9:14AM:

"Their dead parents should also be dug up and hanged for good measure."

Gray Ghost
"Date: Jun 14, 2009 - 11:51 AM EST
Hal ... 10:59am
Hal ...: "What is the purpose and definition of a preamble? What is the preamble to the US Constitution?"

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Now for the definition of a preamble:

A preamble is an introductory and explanatory statement in a document that explains the document's purpose and underlying philosophy.

Kind of important for terms of intent don't you think?

Gray Ghost: Even the Preamble to the

US Constitution say:

"We the 'People' of the United States..."

and not

"We the 'Government' of the United States..."



rightest believes what he sees

It is my opinion that anyone who is on the right of the political chasm, is a good guy who wants the best for all.

Those on the left are the murderers, the trouble makers, and the "bad" people.

As I look at history, I can find no other example.

Remember a rightest believes what he sees.

A Leftist sees what he believes.

Hate comes from the left, and once in a while, someone who has expressed hate is charged with being on the right. But at some point he moved to the left, maybe just seconds before he pulls the trigger.

Gray Ghost
"Date: Jun 14, 2009 - 12:04 PM EST... Bravado
"LMAO this was settled in the 1860's you states' rights idiots want to try again? We won't be as nice as we were last time."

Please start the "ball game" Doofus. You and your lunatic Liberal friends don't even know what end the bullet comes out."

You know this is kind of what your ilk thought last time. Just as last time, it won't be us that starts anything. This time though you are an elderly, mostly white minority capable of little coordinated action except senseless violence as we have seen the past couple of weeks.

"...And by the way, if Conservatives do have to "start the ball game", we won't be as nice to idiotic traitors like yourself as we were after the Revolutionary War. If you want to take that as threat, you can. But it is not a threat, it is a promise."

Hey my timid and frightened little fella conservatives WERE the Tories LOL


GGII
"You are nothing but "talk", Doofus. Greater men than you and me both fought and died for this country. And 99% of them were Conservatives, no matter what lies or claims you want to make otherwise."

LMAO you are clearly in denial want to rethink that statement?

"...You are a small little man ... enlisted men....."

see you even attack with lies the honorable service of a veteran, typical conservative, disgusting but typical

"...People like yourself bear the responsibility should this whole thing get "bloody". You constantly belittle others. You do not debate; but instead insult. I hope you can live with yourself. "

Oh no dearie in case you had not noticed things have already gotten "bloody" already, right wing religious and political fanatics killed a soldier, doctor and security guard not to mention the three dead cops in Pittsburgh. Crazy talk like you and so many others here spit out only serves to fire up the weak and deluded among you. I do insult you and belittle you. Your lies and nonsense and hate must stop or be countered.

A Principle of The Traditional American
Philosophy

5. Limited Government
Governments derive "their just powers from the consent of the governed" - (Declaration of Independence)

The Principle

1. The traditional American philosophy teaches that government must be limited in power if Individual Liberty is to be safeguarded, if each Individual's God-given, unalienable rights are to be made and kept enduringly secure.

"Just Powers" Defined

2. This philosophy asserts that the self-governing people allow any government they may organize to possess, by grant from them, only the limited and few powers with which the people think the particular government may sensibly be entrusted in order to serve their purposes without endangering their rights--their liberties or freedoms. These powers constitute the "just powers" of government, as the Declaration of Independence phrases it. This is in keeping with the primary purpose for which the people organize governments: to make and keep these unalienable rights secure and most beneficial to themselves and to Posterity--time without end."


cont.


II A Principle of The Traditional

American Philosophy

"Limited" - a Key Word

3. "Limited government" is a key term in the American philosophy. Its great significance is indicated by describing the purpose of limiting government's power in these words: Limited for Liberty. This summarizes what is meant by the statement in the Declaration of Independence about governments being limited in power "to secure these rights"--to make and keep them ever secure. "Limited" means limited by a written Constitution adopted by the sovereign people as their basic law--never changing in its meaning, as originally intended by The Framers and Adopters, except subject to change by the people only by amendments at any time and to any extent they may see fit. All governments in America are thus limited by written Constitutions--by the United States Constitution as the "supreme Law of the Land" and, as to each State government, by that States' Constitution. (Note again Par. 4 of Principle 3, regarding the first eight, or Bill of Rights, amendments being intended to apply against the Federal government only.)


Anne
"Date: Jun 14, 2009 - 12:20 PM EST
Gray Ghost: Even the Preamble to the

US Constitution say:

"We the 'People' of the United States..."

and not

"We the 'Government' of the United States...""

We the people elected President Obama and Congress they are doing we the people's business as directed by we the people. Simple really just as the Constitution intended

III A Principle of The Traditional

American Philosophy

Limited Powers, Duties, Responsibilities and Limited Threat to Liberty

4. The few and limited powers of the United States government are enumerated and defined in the people's fundamental law--the Constitution, as amended. This is the basis of Rule-by-Law (basically the people's fundamental law, the Constitution) in contrast to Rule-by-Man. The limited quantity of its powers means it is limited in potential threat to the people's liberties. These "just powers," being few and limited, automatically define the limits of the duties which the people assign to this government. It can have no duties, no responsibilities, other than those consistent with the limits of the powers granted to it by the people in the Constitution, as amended, IT IS EQUALLY AS VIOLATIVE OF THE CONSTITUTION FOR GOVERNMENT TO ASSUME DUTIES--TO PRETEND TO HAVE RESPONSIBILITIES--AS IT IS TO GRASP POWERS, BEYOND THESE PRESCRIBED LIMITS."

:-)

Anne
"Date: Jun 14, 2009 - 12:35 PM EST
A Principle of The Traditional American
Philosophy

5. Limited Government
Governments derive "their just powers from the consent of the governed" - (Declaration of Independence)"

Reaganism made limited government a religious mantra and look where it got us? Reaganism is a complete failure. Competent government with just enough authority to function was the goal of the founders. We the governed consent to the powers President Obama is exercising. You keep forgetting that you are a declining minority

doofass-the-disconnected! NOPE!

With the possible exception of yourself, and other ANTI-CONSTITUTION Marxists, NO ONE voted to have our CONSTITUTION shredded and violated.

And that's exactly what Obozo is doing ...



Sstupeorwhatever
Where in the Constitution? It's called the Bill of Rights, it's called the enumerated powers and this person masquerading as a president has usurped and abused his powers.
GM takeover; salary czar among about 19 other UNELECTED and UNACCOUNTABLE Czars; siccing ACORN on the AIG employees; firing a federal investigator because he got too close to his buddies..o and firing CEO's and stealing the franchises from dealers who had the nerve to vote and support the Republicans and giving them to others; health care debacle; porkulus;
his plan to bulldoze the housing in some cities..private property..I could go on and on.

Anne
"Date: Jun 14, 2009 - 12:52 PM EST...! NOPE!

With the possible exception of yourself, and other ANTI-CONSTITUTION Marxists, NO ONE voted to have our CONSTITUTION shredded and violated.

And that's exactly what Obozo is doing ..."

No actually he is not and please note that Congress is doing exactly the will of the people. The Constitution lives. You decaying minority do not get to rewrite the constitution in light of your complete failure

doofass-the-bewildered! FOCUS, FOCUS,...

FOCUS... PA-lease FOCUS!


NO, Reaganism did NOT make limited government a religious mantra and look where it got us, and Reaganism was NOT a complete failure.

Perhaps in your fantasy world, but NOT in reality.

You're diverting again... This is about Obozo, his failure, and his destruction of our CONSTITUTION


FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS.




Hal Donahue
"We the governed consent to the powers President Obama is exercising"

I certainly don't consent to the powers Obama is exercising. I don't see any constitutional authority to throw hundreds of billions (probably more) of dollars of "stimulus" at failing Wall Street banks in a move that VP Biden is now saying failed to protect the economy.

Before you reply please note the following: I also opposed the policies when Bush did the same thing.

I do however think that we need to stop pretending that we can have entirely media driven elections where an individual can be one of more than a hundred million people to cast a ballot, and no matter the outcome of the election, the winner can then do whatever they want, and they can claim to have the consent of the governed.

George Bush did not have my consent to torture people, spy on people without warrants, or triple the size of the federal government (to name a partial list of things that he did that I object to), and Barak Obama does not have my consent to nationalize industry or print absurd amounts of money to pay for his fascist agenda.

The constitution exists to protect ALL people from the excesses and abuses of governments, not just the people who voted for the winning team in an election.

Allan: you are among a GROWING NUMBER

of people who don't (and DIDN'T) consent to the powers Obama is seizing and exercising!

Regardlenn of doofass-the-deranged thinks the people want, the govt can't just do it without a change (amend) to the CONSTITUTION.

doofass-the-deranged should really pay more attention to the polls.



Allan
"Date: Jun 14, 2009 - 1:06 PM EST
Hal Donahue
"We the governed consent to the powers President Obama is exercising"

I certainly don't consent to the powers Obama is exercising. I don't see any constitutional authority to throw hundreds of billions (probably more) of dollars of "stimulus" at failing Wall Street banks..."

The authority is the safety and soundness of the nation his first duty. A total deflationary death spiral that he were headed into would have literally endangered the existence of the nation. Congress consented and realised the danger and requirement for fast action.

"...I do however think that we need to stop pretending that we can have entirely media driven elections where an individual can be one of more than a hundred million people to cast a ballot, and no matter the outcome of the election, the winner can then do whatever they want, and they can claim to have the consent of the governed..."

They do have the consent of the governed if they receive a majority vote. The media is freer and more accessible than ever before. Obama collected millions of dollars and supporters online. Look at what we are doing right now.

"...George Bush did not have my consent to torture people, ..."

That is why we have recourse to laws and why so many of us demand an investigation and charges of criminal offenses done in our name. The law and the ballot box are our recourse for corrective action. Use them as we did against the failed Bush and his Congress.

"...The constitution exists to protect ALL people from the excesses and abuses of governments, not just the people who voted for the winning team in an election."

You are correct about abuses regrettably excesses seem to be acceptable i.e. huge Conservative deficits and ever larger government over the past nearly 30 years not to mention a needless Iraq war

Anne
Date: Jun 14, 2009 - 1:17 PM EST
Allan: you are among a GROWING NUMBER

of people who don't (and DIDN'T) consent to the powers Obama is seizing and exercising!.."

They are legal powers plain and simple. If not impeach him.

"... the people want, the govt can't just do it without a change (amend) to the CONSTITUTION."

The consent of the governed remember and you have a conservative Supreme Court to uphold your interests

"...should really pay more attention to the polls."

Anne you told me to ignore polls remember??? LOL I think in late October last year. Even Conservative polls show strong support for Obama

As the DEMENTED "media"
Goes about trying to associate this murderer of Dr Tiller to their political enemies, they do the opposite with muslims.

Any murder done by a muslim gets buried and his religion is never mentioned.

The muslim killer is always portrayed as an individual killer, an "exception" to all the "peace" loving muslims across the world.

The islamic killer is given lots of grace for his murderous acts and deeds against innocent unsuspecting civilians.

But we see this demented media in America LEAP for JOY in ASSOCIATING this killer of Tiller to their own fellow citizens who do not promote violence of any kind and instead believe this killer of Tiller should get the DEATH PENALTY as should all 1st degree Murderers.

What a sneering cynical hypocritical "media" we have in this country today.

God CURSE their flaming lies

On Liberal Posters Here: Part 1
It is true that a majority of the votes last November were for Obama. But that election was not an informed consent for him to have dominion over us. It merely revealed that most Americans now are ill-suited for participatory democracy. Finally, after many years of incompetent and lazy parenting, dysfunctional and subversive school systems, and the seduction by Hollywood and media elites, most of the American electorate is mentally challenged, ripe for serfdom.

Minnesota proves that any joker can attain high elective office. Massachusetts long ago showed that democrats will reelect cowardly murderers who drown their mistresses and then run to their handlers to concoct alibis. The Clintons showed that philanderers, rapists, thieves and vulgar sows will be embraced by Americans.

Democrat victories are a matter of national shame, not something to boast about. Those in the minority only can feel pride. They still claim their individuality and their freedom. They do not want, or need, bureaucrats, messiahs and other secular potentates to run their lives.

Left-wing Extremist
Let's see; Tiller tortured and killed full-term or near full-term babies for fun and profit. Wouldn't that qualify as extreme? And since almost all of those on the political "left" celebrate said torture and killing of babies, could we not proclaim Tiller to have been a "Left-wing" extremist? Could we not also, using a mirror image of the logic that generated the terrorist watch alert against those with conservative convictions, put most of the left, including The Most Holy & Exalted Obamassiah, on a terrorist watch list for their extreme political inclinations? Since Tiller, his co-abortionists and his supporters, by their tacit approval and support, have killed millions, I would suggest that they are the real embodiment of domestic terrorists!

Liberal Posters Here: Part 2
Democratic voters are lazy good for nothing loafers and feather merchants, parasites who feed off others while serving no purpose in life but casting shadows and breathing air. They are failures, envious of others’ accomplishments. Some are resentful they were not accepted to pilot training and were relegated to the back seat of F4s merely to provide proper ballast and a center of gravity during and for some time after takeoff, but were often jettisoned with empty wing tanks and other useless appendages to lighten the aircraft’s weight in aerial combat and at the climax of missions.

During the Vietnam war the bar girls that worked Air Force bases in Southeast Asia joked about F4 backseaters as being men with big navigation charts but small dicks. Other aircrew members called them “Navi-guessers” because they mostly got lost.

After so much ridicule and abuse from better men, some of these guys came home to bad mouth their country, ally themselves with the enemy, and vote for Hillary and Obama.

doofass-the-bewildered: NO, I said poll
trends are what's important and more telling.


What? "Even Conservative polls show strong support for Obama."

You have us worried... you're slipping more quickly, losing touch with reality.


Or is it that your "lie pathology" is getting worse??


Hal Donahue
"A total deflationary death spiral that he were headed into would have literally endangered the existence of the nation."

Unfortunately an inflationary death spiral does the same thing, just ask the people of Zimbabwe.

"The law and the ballot box are our recourse for corrective action."

You have to be careful about putting your faith in law. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and the rest had the law on their side. Obama and the Democrats have promised many things with regards to the legacy of the Bush administration, exactly which of those promises have they lived up to? Do you really believe that the government can be trusted to investigate itself?

As for the ballot box, my criticism stands. This system was never devised as a straight up democracy. The flaw of elections is even more apparent in the age of mass media bombardment. We have supposed "journalists" declaring Obama as virtually everything up to the second coming of Christ. And it's not that I think that McCain would have been any better, but it's hard to look at the last few elections as any bit superior to the elections that they have in North Korea or Iran. Out two "viable" candidates are hand picked for us by the corporate owned media, and it doesn't really matter which one of them wins because neither one holds the interests of the people above the interests of campaign contributors.

"regrettably excesses seem to be acceptable i.e. huge Conservative deficits..."

As I specifically stated, I am opposed to Republican excesses as well as Democrat excesses. The whole left right paradigm is a false face.

talent scout
"Date: Jun 14, 2009 - 1:43 PM EST
As the DEMENTED "media"
Goes about trying to associate this murderer of Dr Tiller to their political enemies, they do the opposite with muslims..."

Simply not true at all

"...But we see this demented media in America LEAP for JOY in ASSOCIATING this killer of Tiller to their own fellow citizens who do not promote violence of any kind and instead believe this killer of Tiller should get the DEATH PENALTY as should all 1st degree Murderers..."

Did you read all the folks writing here on TH about Tiller? You are wrong again as larry above

Hal Donahue
You are cursed with madness

How About The DC Snipers, Eh?

In 2002, 11 people were killed and 3 seriously injured by John Allen MUHAMMAD and John Lee Malvo in the Washington, DC area sniper attacks that actually began in Louisiana.

It is funny to watch the cherry-pickers on the Left operate.

Allan
"Date: Jun 14, 2009 - 1:58 PM EST
Hal Donahue
"A total deflationary death spiral that he were headed into would have literally endangered the existence of the nation."

Unfortunately an inflationary death spiral does the same thing, just ask the people of Zimbabwe..."

I saw deflationary in Argentina that is worse. Inflationary is a danger but massive out of control inflation is avoidable

"The law and the ballot box are our recourse for corrective action."

You have to be careful about putting your faith in law. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and the rest had the law on their side..."

Not true the had law and FORCE If law prevails force must not. The talk here of using force etc is exactly the tactics of those you list to gain legitimacy under the law

"...Obama and the Democrats have promised many things with regards to the legacy of the Bush administration, exactly which of those promises have they lived up to? Do you really believe that the government can be trusted to investigate itself?"

It has in the past and should do in the future it has to do with competency and the quality of civil servants


Allan II
"...As for the ballot box, my criticism stands. This system was never devised as a straight up democracy. The flaw of elections is even more apparent in the age of mass media bombardment. We have supposed "journalists" declaring Obama as virtually everything up to the second coming of Christ..."

Read the press of the early 1800s

"...And it's not that I think that McCain would have been any better, but it's hard to look at the last few elections as any bit superior to the elections that they have in North Korea or Iran. Out two "viable" candidates are hand picked for us by the corporate owned media, and it doesn't really matter which one of them wins because neither one holds the interests of the people above the interests of campaign contributors."

Then you support campaign finance rules? You are right the biggest donors have big influence. Money is the ammunition of the political war. That said do not forget the millions Obama raised from us little folk all over the net


talent scout: "madness" isn't the ONLY

thing doofass is cursed with.



If you think the US and its elections
are no different from N. Korea and Iran, you have never been out of your back yard.

ACORN (who showed up in Albany to riot when the Reps. took over the Senate there) and Rock the Vote and Black Panther intimidation could lead to banana rep. status for the US, but not yet.

Go to teapartypatriots.org and find a place to demonstrate. Big plans across Am. for the Fourth of July.

If C does not = A then it must = B
This has to be the craziest lie I've been hearing: Since the murder of U.S. soldiers by a Muslim extremist wasn't right-wing, it must have been liberal. There is NOTHING liberal about Muslim extremism! Given right-wing & left-wing positions, which one would a Muslim extremist be more likely to agree with when it comes to abortion, homosexuality, feminism, the death penalty, gun rights, prayer in schools, etc? Even on issues of invading another country just because you hated its leaders or of torturing prisoners, a Muslim extremist would only believe that the U.S. had done these to the wrong people, not that they were morally indefensible in themselves.
Since both the pro-Iraq-war movement & the anti-Iraq-war movement consistently expressed strong support for the troops (& both contained many veterans & family members of deployed troops), we may conclude that this was one hateful act that falls outside of left/right politics.


Hal

Dude, you sure place a lot of faith in Ben Bernanke and the Federal Reserve.

How many times must I tell you that debt monetization or quantitative easing (as Geithner calls it) has never succeeded in the history of mankind?

All you are doing is eating your own body in order to keep your stomach full.

James W. von Brunn
was mentally ill. He was a sick man, and it would not have made any difference which side of the political spectrum he identified with. He still would have been mentally ill.

All of this foolishness of trying to associate a schizophrenic with a political philosophy is just that, foolishness. True, some killers kill even though they are sane and these individuals are associated with both the left and the right, but mental illness is mental illness, nothing more – nothing less.

Every group whether political, religious or social has its nut jobs.

Mental illness does not discriminate.

3rdCitizen
You are easily deceived, or you are deceitful, if you believe the anti war movement supports the troops. This is a lie, just as it was 40 years ago.

The left only acts as if it loves and supports the troops. They do this so as not to offend anyone. Contrary to all their bragging about their supposed mandate, they know full well that the right lost the election solely because it foolishly allowed the left to intimidate them into forbidding victory in the Middle East.

They know that Americans wanted, and still want, victory. Your theory that we lost because of any stupid morality about the war, torture, etc. is nonsense

Americans were angry and disgusted that our civilian leadership lacked the courage to stand up to the left, to let the left dictate the agenda, and to allow our guys to possibly lose so it could be invited to D.C. cocktail parties.

Even Americans dispise cowardice.

So the left dares not insult the military. . . now. But they are anxious to show their hatred of the military and once again be able to do so openly, like they did back then. If this war does drag on without success, and if the left sees that the "great silent majority" will agains keep its mouth shut while the troops are attacked, they'll quickly do so.


The Left & The Military

Does the Left love the military? If one looks to San Francisco and its stance on the ROTC and military recruitment centers as an example of Liberal Love, then the answer is an unequivocal NO.

Ms Kelly #93: You make an excellent
point!

BUT... what was found on von Brunn's website was very much that is what the liberals are pushing...

The liberals were VERY QUICK to label von Brunn an extreme right winger...

Imagine their surprise (whether or not they admit it...)


:-)





JD's Handsome Son
"...JD's Handsome Son Location: OH
Reply # 94
Date: Jun 14, 2009 - 4:26 PM EST
3rdCitizen...The left only acts as if it loves and supports the troops. They do this so as not to offend anyone...."

Yet it is the Democrats who called for an got better armour and armoured vehicles. It is the Democrats that called for and got full funding for the VA and are now moving to a fully funded Multi-year VA budget. No actually conservatives who said the nice words but didn't do anything for the troops. And let's not forget the New GI Bill.

The military are well on the way back home to the Democratic Party which is delivering for them.

Hey doofass: Very bad news! Apparently

Congress is NOT doing exactly the will of the people!

Rasmussen polls...

"After all, most voters (53%) believe increases in government spending hurt the U.S. economy. In fact, 51% favor an across-the-board tax cut for all Americans as an economic stimulus."

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/wee kly_updates/what_they_told_us_reviewing_last_week_s_key_pol ls


GET THAT??? "53% believe increases in government spending hurt the U.S. economy."

That trend has been in the works for a while.

So, is Congress going to start doing the will of the people????





JD's Son: doofass-the-deluded-in-denial

is getting progressively worse...

doof: "The military are well on the way back home to the Democratic Party which is delivering for them."

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

ONLY in his dreams! HA HA HA HA



Who's Who
The "extreme" right position is Ayn Rand's Objectivism, if we are looking at the left-right spectrum properly: Totalitarianism on the left, and individual rights on the right. So, no, von Brunn is definitely not a righty.

Every good righty knows that if you are going to target the Weekly Standard, you should do it because they are a bunch of "former" lefties, not because they are Jewish. :)

The Tea Parties are completely benign.

However, the anti-abortion movement is making itself a menace. We are talking multiple murders and attempted murders here, so they really ought to be on some watch lists. Islamic groups are already being observed, so I do not see any double standard here.

The First Principle
The communists who post here in Townhall make a fundamental mistake when they suggest that George Bush and the current, and previous, GOP are, and were, conservatives. This is incorrect.

The GOP of the past 10 years, or so,were defeated precisely because they showed themselves to be fake conservatives who acted the same as, if not worse, than the left.

Like any traitor who wears your uniform, such persons are worthy of more extreme punishments and explains why the GOP was soundly defeated in 2006 and 2008. True conservatives are principled individuals who will risk elections rather than give their votes to unworthy candidates.

This distinguishes conservatives from liberals who will prostitute themselves and follow whatever messiah or prophet put before them by their party puppeteers.

In every way, true conservatives are intellectually and morally superior to liberals.

JD's Son: Agreed 92%

Absolutely, in every way, true Conservatives are intellectually and morally superior to liberals.

In fact, for the most part, even real Republicans are intellectually and morally superior to liberals.

But, even Conservatives have to concede that of the billions Bush spent, MUCH was on Airport Security, port security, bio-hazard sensors and Radiation sensors, additional training for first responders, etc., to keep this country and their sorry butt safe!




Hal Doofus 12:34pm 06/14/09
"Oh no dearie in case you had not noticed things have already gotten "bloody" already, right wing religious and political fanatics killed a soldier, doctor and security guard not to mention the three dead cops in Pittsburgh. Crazy talk like you and so many others here spit out only serves to fire up the weak and deluded among you. I do insult you and belittle you. Your lies and nonsense and hate must stop or be countered."

Start the ball Doofus. I do insult you and belittle your service. Your service was not honorable as you used your rank to take advantage of enlisted personnel. That is the main reason you never advanced beyond LTC.

Doofus, your lies and idiotic rants will be stopped eventually. If you don't die a natural death soon (especially with your drinking), you will eventually die. Until then people like myself will be around to counter your falsehoods.

Doofus your rants do stir up the weak and deluded. The two soldiers shot in Arkansas were a direct result of you and your fellow Liberals' rants. The Muslim convert did no more than give in to the hatred that you and the Liberals have been pouring out for years.

So Fat Boy, keep up the rants and screaming of hatred. Eventually it will catch up to you.

Von Brunn and the left
Lets see Libertarianism is to Von Brunn exactly how? And he is to the right of them exactly how? I had no idea he was an anarchist: the falling off point from decentralized small government. Whether he said so or no he is a creature of left logic, form, structure, social conception and so on.

It is the left, no? that divides by victimized groups, settles state policy on just such constructions, and then has the unmitigated gall that when it’s rogues go haywire and apply their logic scandalously it is somehow conservatives’ fault? Balderdash.

The whole structure of the left rests upon its inability to never reject the plantation structure for organizing society--yes it is repugnant. Substituting this population for that one changes the logic gaming the social structure not one whit. It is still the same repugnant structure that it has always been. But to then have the unmitigated gall to blame others for their own social perfidy is beyond mendacity.

Yes I know the Democrat party has been trying to redeem itself from being on the wrong side of the Civil War since the Civil War, well not exactly, well as a soft subconscious impetus since the Civil Rights movement then, well actually no, it saw it was going to lose a huge group that had relied on its bigotry and racism, and the only way they could keep the door of perfidy open was to use a wrestling move, on its back, nearly pinned, it rolled and applied racial leverage with a twist and voila left its own perfidious structure in place. Contemptible!

von Brunn was a LEFT-WING nut!
“He denounced the Christian faith as a dastardly Jewish conspiracy, a ‘HOAX’ invented by the Apostle Paul to ‘DESTROY ROMAN CULTURE’ from within by undermining its pagan virility. (All screaming capitalization and grammatical errors in this piece appear in the original.) Like others on the racist fringe, the shooter proclaimed clearly: ‘SOCIALISM, represents the future of the West.’”

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/06/11/holoc aust-museum-killer-conservative-not-so-fast

Lib deceit
Words and consistent thoughts don't mean anything to libs. von Brunn goes into the Holocaust museum and kills a guard is called by the libs a "right-wing extremist."

Yet, after investigation, it turns out that the guy was rabidly SOCIALIST. And, the guy hated Jews and Christians. Also hated W and believed that the U.S. government conspired to bring the towers down (So, he sympathized with islamists too).

Just your ordinary "right-wing conservative" kook, huh? What purpose might the libs have by capitalizing on this sad incident by lying?

Extremists
To deny the existence of extremists on both political sides is to deny that the sky is blue. A nut-job is a nut-job, his politics notwithstanding. To say that one or another is a product of the Left or the Right is to ignore the crucial issue: the fact that he is a nut-job.

The response to nut-jobs is what we need to pay attention to. When a nut-job attacks, the Right is consistent: punish him if he isn't already dead. The Left, however, takes a more "nuanced" position: They will either spend weeks psychoanalyzing him to find out where society failed (if he follows a philosophy they agree with) or they will blame the victim (if they don't like the victim) or they will associate him with conservatives (if he harms someone they agree with.)

Compare Timothy McVeigh with the 9/11 terrorists. EVERYONE wanted McVeigh's hide. He had killed government workers during the Clinton administration and had done so to "retaliate" for that admin.'s handling of Waco. So the Left went out of their way to associate him with "right-wing extremists" whereas the Right just wanted him punished for his heinous acts. After 9/11 those on the Left who had something to lose by appearing to be in league with Satan condemned the attacks and supported our retaliation in Afghanistan (though as time heals all wounds, particularly those to the memory of the Left, many Democrats pulled their support for the war later on) but those who could afford bad publicity (Michael Moore, Ward Churchill, the leaders of groups like ANSWER, etc.) talked about how we had it coming, how the victims deserved what they got (Churchill called them "Little Eichmanns"), how the terrorists hit "blue" areas when they should have hit "red" ones (Moore) and how it was really the fault of the Victim (America), President Bush ("What did he know and when?"), Jews (as usual), or anyone else EXCEPT the extremists.

Perpetuating the right / left swindle
Back when Hitler's National Socialist Party (Nazis) was running against other political parties in the the Weimar Republic, the Nazis struck a deal with their rival the Communist party to label themselves and each other "right" and "left". Thus two nearly identical ideologies - both collectivist, anti-individual, and totalitarian - hoodwinked their voters into thinking that they were making an actual choice. The other political parties on the landscape faded into mediocrity, and Hitler's SOCIALIST party won. The crazy thing is that, to this day, we are fooled into viewing Nazi leanings(anti-Jew / white supremacy) as "right". We ignore that Socialism is LEFT and the Nat'l Socialist Party (Nazi Party) was entirely left-wing, i.e. anti-individual rights, pro-collective (the individual should sacrifice for the common good), and inherently totalitarian.
Any rhetoric which treats individuals as members of a group rather than, as Dr. King said, judging people on their character, is left-wing rhetoric.

Stacey
For about ten years the right wing has been trying to fob off the fantasy that Nazi's were left wing. They were not. They were totalitarian and reached that exteme of the political spectrum while moving right.

The key difference between the left and the right in this context is nationalism. The Nazi party was extremely nationalistic, which is a big favorite of the right wing.



Stacey, Explain This
Stacey, you wrote: "Any rhetoric which treats individuals as members of a group rather than, as Dr. King said, judging people on their character, is left-wing rhetoric."

Yet Anne wrote, "in every way, true Conservatives are intellectually and morally superior to liberals."

So Anne is really a leftist in disguise? DOn't tell her: it will really freak her out.

Coverage
"Other media underplayed the domestic terrorist attack as well." If that is true why did you see O'Reilly apologize to CNN after Rick Sanchez exposed the fact that CNN did not "underplayed" the army recruiter shooting?

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200906050034

Check it out. I understand that Islamic terrorists are more a threat that domestic "right-wing" terrorists. But to borrow one of the authors points, it is possible that right wing media ignored the coverage of the pvt. William Andrew Long killing because imagining everyone ignored it better served their agenda.

Fringe Groups
By the time you go so far to the right OR left that you get into fringe groups like totalitarianism and fashism, you have gone so far that you overlap right and left. If you are that extreme, basically you are the same from both sides. For instance, the idiot that shot the abortion doctor vs. the idiot that shot the recruiting soldiers. Both did exactly the same thing for basically the same reasons - they disagreed with the personS(s) they shot. Any government, etc. they came up with would basically be a police state and look just alike except for those in charge. So trying to argue which type of fringe group they are is basically meaningless. Let's all agree they are idiots and let it go at that.

Terrorism vs. murder
If you dislike someone and kill them, that is murder. If you dislike a group and kill them to intimidate other groups into doing what you order them to do, that is terrorism.

The MSM is using the word "terrorist" to describe these murderers for shock effect, but that doesn't mean they are terrorists. Let's try to keep the terms sort of in prospective even if they don't. The Oklahoma bombing was a terrorist act; the Holocaust museum shooting was murder since he wasn't trying to fighten anyone into doing what he wanted. He just wanted to kill someone.

Some Rational Observations
American communists want our foreing wars to be administered by the Department of Justice. Rather than combat foreign attackers with our military, the left would prefer to send in lawyers to file motions and prepare documents to serve on Jihadists.

The left would prefer that our military be reserved for public works programs in Third World countries.

However,when a leftist is retired from his medical practice, the left calls for all out war and demands a militarist approach and martial law for its political opponents. All this because of the death of one mass murderer.

Let the left over reach and attack us. Let them violate the constitution and let the nation see what's behind their tailor made suits and eloquent speeches about tolerance, diversity and compromise.

Such disproportionality will serve only as a recruitment tool for the resistance and quicken the day when the restoration of our constitution begins.

The sooner this happens, the sooner all leftists hang from lamp posts.

fringe groups
I agree, and would apply your standard of thought to government systems. Fascism, Communism- it's all the same. One guy or small group of people telling everyone else what to do and completely controlling everything they possibly can. Of course, without a moral society with people making responsible choices, the only other basic alternative is anarchy... Wasn't it Madison who said our system of government is wholly inadequate for anything other than a moral society? (Pardon the bad paraphrase)
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