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Sunday, January 21, 2007
Debra J. Saunders :: Townhall.com Columnist
There Ought Not to Be a Law on Spanking
by Debra J. Saunders
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Democratic California Assemblywoman Sally Lieber has announced that she will introduce a bill this week to make it a crime to spank children who are 3 years old or younger, punishable by up to a year in jail or a $1,000 fine. If this zany idea were to become law, California could be the place where the nanny state meets the authoritarian state.

It is more than ironic that a politician who wants to make it illegal for parents to apply their flat hands to their babies' bare bottoms is more than happy to allow the heavy hand of the law to yank parents from their homes and place them behind bars for disciplining their own children in the way that they see fit and does not injure a child.

"I think we ought to have a law against beating children," Lieber told The San Francisco Chronicle last week.

That's the problem. California does have laws against beating children. But in this politically correct atmosphere, do-gooders believe it is their right to pass laws that expand definitions beyond reason so that a spanking is a beating -- when it isn't.

In effect, this is what Lieber really is saying in proposing such a law: I know how to raise your kids, and I am going to make it illegal for other parents to discipline their children in a way I do not like. If you don't do it my way, you can go to jail.

That's not how Lieber sees it, of course. She told me, "I haven't heard any convincing arguments as to why anyone would want to swat a 6-month-old or 1-year-old." As Lieber sees it, spanking is "not effective," as children under 3 "don't understand it." And: Spanking trains children "in violence and domination, even when it's moderate."

While Lieber may believe that she is trying to protect children, it's hard to see how a big fine or putting mom or dad in jail for a spanking could be even remotely in a toddler's interest.

Let me be clear. I am not defending spanking. Like Lieber, I don't think spanking is effective and there are better ways to discipline children.

I just happen to believe that California cops have their hands full dealing with adults who beat, torture or otherwise abuse children. Take the case of Oakland's Chazarus Hill Sr., 27, who beat his 3-year-old son Chazarus "Cha Cha" Hill Jr. to death in 2003 after the poor boy wet his bed and made mistakes recognizing flash cards.

Cha Cha had been beaten repeatedly before his father killed him -- and I want police to concentrate on finding and going after adults like Hill. California law rightly gives law enforcement the tools to prosecute such parents -- and it is on such cases, of bodily injury, that the law should and must focus.

Indeed, state law mandates that teachers, health-care professionals and cops report suspected child abuse to the proper authorities.

Lieber mentioned the Hill case over the phone -- which is wrong-headed because Hill was beating his son with deadly weapons, switches and belts, for weeks before he killed him.

Joseph D. McNamara, a retired police chief of San Jose, Calif., and now a research fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institution, told me that if he were a beat cop, he would be "horrified" at the prospect of enforcing a spanking ban.

Such a law would put police in "everyone's living rooms," where they would have to regulate parenting.

Or as Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger so aptly put it when first told about the proposed law, "How do you enforce that?"

McNamara told me he never spanked his children, but he could conceive of instances in which good parents might choose to do so. Say a parent repeatedly tells a young child not to run into the street, or not to talk to strangers, or to stop hurting a younger sibling -- and words alone have not worked.

In such cases, parents -- not a Sacramento lawmaker -- know what best to do. And while Lieber told me she wants to draw a line that makes physical discipline a "black and white" issue, California parents have been dealing with shades of gray since before Lieber was in diapers. Parents are not stupid, they know the difference between beating and spanking, and they do not need her to draw the line for them.

What's next -- McNamara wondered -- a law against grabbing your kid by the arm? Pass such laws, he added, and you'll see a state in which "parents are afraid to discipline the child." As if that would be good for California families.

Lieber's response is that wife-beating once was off-limits to law enforcement, but in this enlightened age, the law does come between a man's fist and his wife's face. Again, she fails to distinguish between beating and spanking.

Just as some people choose not to distinguish between physical and verbal abuse.

Lieber explained: "Things have changed. Now we tell parents what to do and what not to do." The state makes adults use car seats for children, and there are laws to keep them away from lead-based paint.

Except spanking doesn't cause physical harm, as car accidents and lead paint can. And if spanking does injure children, it is illegal. This is more about philosophy than safety -- and California lawmakers don't have a right to mandate how parents think about raising their own kids. Those who want the government to stay out of the bedroom should not want it in the nursery or at the kitchen table, either.

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Liberalism..The Anti-Scripture
If you want to know where a liberal stands on any issue...Refer to the Bible..and do the opposite.

"I know how to raise your kids,"
...is the same idiot philosophy behind car seats and sex education.

Beating LD to the punch
Sorry Loyal Democrat, gonna take this one.

We liberals feel that you people are horrible parents who should not be trusted to discipline your own children. How dare you strike the bottoms of your own children, that is inhumane! If you want to do something inhumane, do it before your child is born when it isn't a child so much as it is a human non-person or clump of cells. For godsakes, you can't crush their skulls after the head is out, it just isn't fair to them!

This is just the government looking out for our most defenseless and least fortunate members of society and protecting them from the evil authority of those bible-thumping spanking FREAKS and into the safe, sterile arms of Uncle Sam. This is a warning to you bad parents out there. Cross us and we'll take your children and put them into government care, or rip them away from you for years. That'll show you monsters who is boss!

This woman is nuts!
I'm going to have to research this, but Lieber can't be a mom. Not with her wacko thinking.

"Kids under three don't understand spanking". Puh-leese! A toddler understands a swat on the hand when they put it near a flame. A 3 year old understands a swat on the rear much moreso that you sitting them down and explaining to them why they cannot hit little sister with a baseball bat.

Spanking is NOT beating. There is a HUGE difference, and parents know this. Most kids don't need spanking after 3-4 years because they KNOW what not to do!

Spanking has been around for thousands of years. Kids today have no respect for authority, for rules and are not disciplined. Why? Because parents today have swallowed the bilge that spanking is abuse. It is not.

My grandparents were spanked. My parents were spanked. I was spanked. My kids were spanked. There's not a child or spousal abuser among us. My kids are respectful, well-adjusted adults and teens who have no mental scars because they got spanked (and only were spanked due to willful disobedience).

You want to continue to have a society of snotty, undisciplined kids? Listen to people like Lieber.

No village is going to raise MY kids. I had them, they are my responsibility - not the government, and not some liberal "village" who thinks they know better than I do!

Kath
"This woman is nuts!"

Agreed.

And she also lives on the other side of the country from me and hopefully that happy state of affairs will continue.

To the broad from Mountain View - What part of MIND YOUR OWN F...... BUSINESS" Don't you understand?

sigh
sex education: schools only do that cuz some parents are too lazy or scared to talk to there kids about it. I know i will teach my kids about this stuff cuz now days if you don't their class mates will. i swear i know kids as young as 13 doing oral sex and i blame parents for not talking to there kids about it

The spanking issue has gotten out of hand I was spanked as a child, and i am not psycho. This will be an impossible to enforce law under our current system of goverment i am not to worried right now but i will keep my eyes on it.

SPANKING
MY CONCERN AS A CONSERVATIVE IS THAT ARNOLD WILL BE STUPID ENOUGH TO SUPPORT THIS ORWELIAN LAW.

spinster/super nanny
The word spinster has fallen from use, but it seems to be a good word to describe this woman. She is 45ish, single, no-kids....and now she makes of point of sticking her nose in other peoples business.

The most chilling statement was "Things have changed. Now we tell parents what to do and what not to do." Yikes!

We've been saying this for years, haven't we? The Nanny State...coming to a home near you.

my bad
Apparently Sweet Sal IS married. But get this, she has a cat named SNOOP! Figures.

Kids understand spanking
It's talking that they don't get. A child is a year before they have any substantial language skills and most are at least three before you can explain to them that "the flame is hot, honey." If you make spanking illegal, you in essence make early parenting ineffectual. You can already see plenty of little examples of the results of "don't spank" propaganda.

Maybe this California legislator ought to read "Dare to Discipline" by James Dobson before she starts advocating removal of one of the few disciplinary tools that actually works with children under three.

20 years ago in a more innocent era
I was driving a school bus. It paid for college.

As I was stopped (with red lights on), I saw a car flash by in my right mirror - someone was passing on the inside, driving on the shoulder. And some math: a bus is 40 feet long, area of vision from the side mirrors is maybe 100 feet beyond that for an adjacent lane so you can do the math as to how little time would pass before the car would be where the door was.

And yes, an 11 year old girl was in the process of getting off the bus at the time.

I didn't have time to think and shouted "no" (which turned her sidewise) and reached out with my hand in a blind and desperate attempt to grab her. I caught hair, backpack, shirt and probably more and literally drove her into the ground with probably twice the force necessary to lift her off the ground. She hit hard.

And to this day I remember her sprawled on the staircase, one leg under her and the other with a white sneaker sticking out the door as the blue car flashed by. And when she saw the car - well things were happening rather fast but she never did say anything about me having basicly bodyslammed her into the deck. And that evening her father called my boss (at home) and asked her to thank me for what I did and to tell me that she was OK. This was a more innocent age, that is how things were done back then...

Now doing this today would be acceptable - even the most militant feminazi would agree that a male bus driver could (and should) physically grab a girl out of the path of a speeding vehicle. But today I would spend the 3-5 seconds that I didn't have to think about it instead of just acting and that girl would have been splashed all over the windshield of a car that (I later learned) was driven by her cousin.

My sister's son was 2 years old when he reached for the knife that my father was carving the turkey with. I reached for the child's hand, slapped it and said "no." This was instinctive -knives can cut fingers too and particuarly can cut little fingers quite well. Now she was upset, the child was screaming and it became a bad scene but if he had lost his fingertips he would have lost them for life.

There is a particular portion of hell reserved for those who maliciously hurt children but when this is expanded to those who do things that one could define as possibly being hurting a child if one was obtuse and totally unaware of the context, the end result is that adults are no longer able to protect children, as we should.

This is the problem with this proposal. Not that parents won't spank but that (worse) they will be so scared of being parents that their kids will go into harm's way without parental prevention.....

2 questions
1) Does Lieber have any kids of her own?

2) Has Arnold done anything about the law or is it just in committee of some such thing?

Uncle Max- we can't count on Arnold the
Governator any more.

He has gone over to the dark side, where his evil Uncle-in-Law Teddy (*hic!*) Kennedy resides.

Ever since the election he has made a hard left turn. He was veering a bit left before the election, but ever since he has totally sold out.

uncle max
she has no kids.

Offensive?
This is what is offensive, watching some two year old throw a temper tantrum in the middle of the grocery store because mom and dad cannot enstill a little discipline in the kid. A spanking can go a long way.

Thanks to Mom!
When I was growing up in the 1950's almost every parent spanked their children when it was needed. Teachers spanked the kids at school when someone "really" got out of line, and parents would spank the child again when they got home from school for getting a spanking at school.

My mom would tear my tail up like a can of kraut if I disobeyed her, or lied to her. I love her dearly for it to this day. I am now 57 years old, a Vietnam era Navy veteran, have never been in trouble with the law or ever been to jail. I believe the discipline I received as a child not only taught me right from wrong, it taught me what good judgment meant and the consequences of bad decisions.

We have raised a couple of generations of thumb sucking, bed wetting little wussies. Let the "Nanny State" enforce stupid laws like this and we really will go down that "slippery slope" the liberals are always whining about. By all means lets tie up the court system with kids suing their parents and lets occupy law enforcement with this nonsense instead of going after real law breakers.

D for Dumb
Why is that the proponents of most stupid laws have a D after their name?

Why is that people in some areas are so stupid they would vote for someone like Ms. Lieber?

Does Ms. Lieber's bill include the routine slap on the rump normally given to newborns to clear the air passage and induce breathing?

Why not just remove all children from these "potentially abusive" homes and let the State raise them in giant orphanages? After all, her goal isn't helping children, its increasing the size and power of the State's division of family "services".

Spanking
There are Laws against beating or injuring anyone already.This is not spanking!! The idea of someone telling Me how to raise My Kids or Grandkids is distasteful and stupid.Can they blame THIS on the War on Terrorism,or on a nosy ,butinsky who has nothing better to do with Her time in the Legislature//

DEBRA, YOU ARE WRONG...
A slap on the butt is not serious. But out of control parents do a lot more damage than that! Emergency room always have black and blue children that "fell" or "walked into a door"?! First parents must get their anger under control, then, and only then a slap on the butt!

The No-Spanking Road to Abuse
The problem with the No-Spanking-Just-Explain approach to parenting is that little children are just learning what they are able to do, and literally "know no boundaries." When you combine that lack of knowlege and restraint with the parents' frustration threshold, you have a growing relational problem, not just a training problem!

--Honey you mustn't hit you newborn brother with your Baby Mozart piano--it will hurt him!
--Sweetie, no, no, that hurts him!!! Let's sit over here and think about this.
--Honey--you've got to sit over here--
--NO-NO!! You can't hit him with the--COME SIT!! DON'T MAKE ME COME OVER THERE!! DON'T YOU PUSH ME!!!
--WHAT IS the MATTER with you????THERE!!!SIT DOWN you little--
SIT!!DOWN!!!DO YOU WANT A SPANKING? DO YOU? YOU BRAT!!!YOU ARE DRIVING ME CRAZY!!!GET OUT OF HERE BEFORE I --!!!

I have seen this scenario over and over--an escalating relational crisis between the naughty but hapless child, and the disintegrating parent who fears spanking, seeing it as the end-of-my-rope option.

Spanking should be a first resort when a toddler does not attend to the parent's word. No vitriol, no frustration, and no rage. Just a quiet "no-no!" and then a decisive swat on the hand or the bottom--then walk the child through the right behavior calmly and lovingly, time after time until the child gets it.

A spanking should not be the culmination of an escalating war between the parent and the child and should not be an outlet of the parent's animosity. Such animosity would never have developed if the parent had taken decisive action at the start.

A little child needs an immediate, decisive deterrent to bad or dangerous behavior, not a chat.

I endeavored to spank my 5 children this way as consistently as I could.

But sometimes, I put off the spanking because I didn't have the heart to do it, and would just threaten instead. At those times, I was really just coddling myself and, in the process, making my child think that spanking was a measure of how "bad" he could get--a terrible message to give to a developing child.

There are too many great people in the world's history who were disciplined (even severely) by loving parents. We would be arrogant in the extreme to claim now that we have discovered a more enlightened way, when we have no track record of good results.

Talk to the hand
talk to the cat, and talk to the two-year-old and you'll get the same effect. They don't understand you because their higher reasoning faculties have not come into play yet. All you will do by trying to reason with a baby is drive yourself to the point where you may do the child a serious injury out of frustration.

Yesterday at Church the usual Catholic mom with three small children arrived late -- as usual -- and she and hubby and the literally shoved me over in the pew during the service so they could all crowd in. The little one was about two and immediately started blabbering out loud. I looked at her sternly and said "Shh!" twice. She shut up. About two minutes later she started again and this time I just looked at her -- she had been looking at me, not Mommy, when she started -- with that Mom Look we of the 1950s all remember well, and there wasn't another word out of her for the rest of the service. Her sister, about five, on the other side of Mom, continued to blabber out loud, going so far as to shout "Goodbye everybody!" as the family stood to go to the communion rail, and to repeat the shout as we stood for the last hymn, with that smirk on her face that made me long to reach across and grab her by the arm. Mom and Dad, of course, sat passively and did nothing.

I have relatives in Sweden where they have passed this idiot no-spanking law, and the rate of alcoholism and suicide among young people is rising exponentially, because the parents have essentially thrown up their hands and told the kids to do whatever the Hades they want.

Life in Paradise is grand, ain't it?

To piggy-back on gratefulheart's item...
Spanking works to "get the kid's attention," when nothing else will.

If it is used only for that purpose, not for punishment, there should be no problem.

We don't need any new legislation to address the hurtful beatings that cause kids to be brought to the ER for medical attention.

This is all about "control." Parents who lose control and damage their own children. Political and ideological control by Lieber types. And... attempting to wrench rightful control from parents.


Spanking Law
I hope they include some extra funding in the law to pay for web cams in the home to monitor parental behavior for any infractions. After all what good is passing a law like this without any means of detecting when it is broken. Perhaps things can be speeded up by a system like the red light cameras. If a spanking infraction is seen on camera send the sheriff out to collect the fine and incarceerate the parent. No trial necessary.

Anti-spanking
I think the whole anti-spanking business is more rooted in the 1960s flower children trying to apply principles of nonviolence universally than in anything related to child psychology.

Uncle Max
No, she has a CAT!

The story is on my blog. This broad has a history of moonbattery.


And police officers should not have guns
after all, if they just politely ask people to get into the back of the car, they will. And we don't need jails anymore, just enough understanding of malefactors.

And of course everyone will pay his/her/its taxes if we just ask them to do so and we don't need an IRS or auditors or anything else because we live in a world of kindness.

I suggest that anyone seriously considering this spanking ban take a look at what the standards for teachers in the schools have become. We ALREADY have parents calling the social service child abuse hotlines for everything including not being given the car for weekend fun.

Pirate
My daughter said something along those lines when she was in middle school.

I got her the phone and told her I'd have her stuff packed for the foster home before the social workers got there! Needless to say, that stopped that stupidity.

(Thanks to Mom for saying the same thing to ME about 30 years ago!)

the LAW of Unforseen Consequences
that law always kicks in:
say a dad and a mom spank a 1yr old and go to prison for a year.
The "great" DCFS walks in, takes the kid.
A year later the kid does not recognize those parents.
How about:
Parent/child trauma?? and - Who cares?
That's how left-wing imbeciles ruin families.

Interesting stuff AudiR10
Kids need discipline. They don't want it, but they need it. My parents kept my siblings and me in line. Those pals of mine who had no boundaries and spoke to their parents in a manner that just dropped my jaw, had a hard time dealing with life on life's terms. I want to be my kids' parent; they already have friends.

As Always
The most disastrous consequences of this inept and high handed application of liberalism on the family will not manifest themselves for several years.

This of course will allow the liberals to deny any link with future problems in families and call for more draconian “laws” to solve the problems caused by raising a bunch of undisciplined children.

Look at the public schools;

First they removed Respect for a higher authority from the public schools,
Then they removed Discipline
Finally they removed Morality

Now they blame everything except their own policies for a bunch of immoral and undisciplined students with no respect for the lives and property of others. While, of course, wanting to pass a bunch of laws that will limit the freedom of everyone else to “solve” these problems.

I don't get it
Democrats have no problem with abortion, but want to ban spanking. Whatever happened to pro-choice? Shouldn't parents have the choice to discipline how they see fit? I'm not a spanker, but I know there is a huge difference between spanking and beating!

If Democrats don't want the goverment in their bedrooms, perhaps they shouldn't be in the family room, either.

Write your legislators!
Write your legislator and write the gov of California! They can't vote against this "feel good" bill without massive feedback from people!

Preschool teachers would have to report to social services everytime a kid said he/she got a spanking. There is a shortage of foster homes as it is.

Lynne! Don't encourage her. No we don't want parenting classes and we don't want parents to be licensed. We don't want dem. brainwashing from the day of birth.

We don't want the government putting in cameras and spying on us the way parents spy on nannies.

We don't want immigrant kids being taken away from their families. It is easier to hear a spanking in an apartment than in a separate house.

The police don't want it.

When is she going to extend this "training" to dogs, cats, monkeys, and primates because they all swat their young when they cross the line. Are they going to close zoos because it is a "bad influence"?

When is she going to outlaw tone of voice and a stare because it is intimidating from someone bigger? As someone said, pretty soon we'll all have to crawl because our size is intimidating and hurts the "self esteem" of the babies. Pretty soon we'll all have to talk baby talk
because why should we impose language on the babies? Do wah doo blb ta wa ga. I can just imagine debates in the government.

A bad idea is a bad idea is a bad idea. We don't need a compromise.















big government
This is also the first step to government having radios, telephones, and television that work in both directions so the government can keep an eye on us "for our own good". This idea is so dangerous. A people has to be vigilant to protect themselves.
This is so "1984".
And given that the dems are trying to pass a fairness doctrine- as far as I'm concerned we will soon have radios and TV's that don't turn off with dem propaganda so that we all "think the right way, a la dem".
We already have cars that report on us. Our cars have little black boxes that can be used to convict us as it already did to one guy. Our cars can be fitted to call the owner and the repair shop to set up an appt.
Soon we'll have refrigerators reporting to the health police about how many carbs we have in our fridge. Our car will be able to report how many times we go to fast food.
We already have kids whose fingerprints are used to report back to the parents what they eat.
Are diapers going to be set with an alarm for a swat?













Lieber's a moron!
"As Lieber sees it, spanking is 'not effective,' as children under 3 'don't understand it.'"

This is bullsh!t. My son has Down Syndrome, and he understood spanking, well before 3 years old.

Just look at all the psychological experiments done with rats. Rats don't even live 3 years, and even if they lived to 100, wouldn't be as smart as a two-year old human child. Yet after 2-3 times getting zapped by an electric shock, rats learn not to do the thing that caused the shock. It's called "conditioned response", Lieber. Look it up. The rat doesn't HAVE to "understand" that he's being punished. He just has to feel the pain and associate it with whatever activity caused it. And even a 1-year-old child's reasoning ability it greater than that of a full-frown rat.

(On second thought, rats might be smarter than democrats, at ANY age.)

"And: Spanking trains children 'in violence and domination, even when it's moderate.'"

Lieber says this like it's a BAD thing. What's wrong with training children in violence and domination? They need to know that violence is the ultimate tool of authority. For that matter, it is also the ultimate tool of rebellion. I say this with 100% seriousness. Whether it's learning to fear authority because of the violence it can inflict upon you, or learning how to use violence to throw off the yoke of authority when that authority is abused, children need to understand violence. I'm not saying children should use violence on a daily basis, but they sure as hell need to know 1) how to recognize it when they see it, 2) how to respect the threat that violence poses, and 3) how to use it themselves when threatened.

I regularly use corporal punishment (spanking) on my children, and if any government tries to prevent that, they damned well better come with guns. And let me tell you why I treat my children this way. If I look up and see my son playing in the street, and there's a car coming, and I cannot reach him in time, I'm going to yell at him as loud as I can for him to get out of the street. His very life depends on him following my orders exactly and immediately! Though it may not be exactly the same circumstances, almost every parent will, eventually, find himself in that situation, where his child's life depends on the child following orders EXACTLY and IMMEDIATELY. Until a child is old enough to think for himself, and to recognize threats, his OBEDIENCE to his parents is his most important safety tool. And if you can't depend on your child's absolute and immediate obedience, then you might as well throw him in front of that car yourself. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't teach your child obedience, and he dies because he didn't obey you, you're just as guilty of murder as Chazarus Hill Sr.

One more thing. The government can't have it both ways. Right now, there are laws on the books that set criminal penalties for the PARENTS of minors who break laws, because the parent has a legal obligation to prevent criminal behavior in the children. But, at the same time, there are laws that tie parents' hands as far as punishment. It is completely unfair to, on the one hand, hold parents responsible for the misdeeds of their children, and, on the other hand, rob them of the tools that they need to discourage such misdeeds.

Regards,
Trevor

A compromise
I emailed Lieber and told her that I'd be willing to shelve my right to spank (NOT abuse) my child(ren) if she's willing to overturn the most horrific child abuse of all: abortion.

Otherwise, don't insult my intelligence by telling me a spanking and beating are the same thing. They aren't, and every parent knows that. Even the ones who DO beat their children, the ones who need to be prosecuted rather than the mom who swats her son on his hand.

This "law" is just going to clog the courts with decent parents while the real abusers get away with far worse.

Stop Electing Idiots!
And the California tax payers are paying the salary of this idiot! Parents don’t need the government telling them if or when they can punish their children. It is already against the law to beat a child or anyone else so why does this mindless freak want another law? Face it, these unstable elected morons are like dogs who have to run around peeing on everything to leave their mark. Californians need to leave their mark by tossing their butts out!

First butt-swat, administered at birth..
A spank is just a pat on the back, just applied a little lower. When done properly, it is a demonstration of a parents love for their child.

When not administered when necessary, then you show disinterest, hatred and you are failing in your parental duty.

Thanks mom and dad, for demonstrating your love.

Pass it on.

AMEN EnglishQueen!
Couldn't have said it better! Think I'll email her too!

This law WOULD prevent abuse.
If the police had this tool, they could have removed Cha Cha BEFORE his father caused harm. Why should it be illegal to strike an adult (battery), but legal to strike a child (spanking)?

Spare the rod, spoil the child
When my son was about 9 we had a birthday party for his sister at the local roller rink. At one point he wanted to stop skating and play a video game. My husband gave him a quarter to do so. As my husband was walking away he heard a horrendous noise. Turning around he saw, to his horror, that our son was kicking the stuffing out of the machine with his skated foot because his quarter got stuck. My husband walked over to the scene of the crime and smacked him a good one. Some ignorant child advocate came up to my husband and told him point blank she was calling the police on him for child abuse. My husband reached into his pocket, took out a quarter and told her there were phones in the lobby and she should do whatever she had to do but because he had the guts to be a parent, his son would never vandalize her house or steal her car. She decided not to proceed with her threat, but she was none too happy. Today our son is 24 and a wonderful man, law abiding citizen and great son to my husband and myself. I often asked myself what would have hurt him more. A good slap from his father for his misbehavior or knowing that his father was spending time in jail because of his misbehavior. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
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