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Tuesday, April 24, 2007
David Strom :: Townhall.com Columnist
Liberalism 101
by David Strom
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Ever notice how the left’s solution to all the world’s ills is to create a bureaucracy?

The larger the better. The more government employees, the better.

Let’s take the example of providing transportation for people who can’t or don’t drive cars. As we all know, no matter how wealthy we become as a society or even as individuals, there will always be a few people who need help getting around because of economic circumstances, illness, or disability. Or who just plain can’t drive.

The solution that liberals have come up with is stunning in its scope: the building and subsidization of enormous, unwieldy, unproductive, and largely unsatisfying transit systems. If you ever for a moment think you might like government-run health care, take a look at the government-run transportation

system and you will foreswear ever toying with the idea again.

Transit is one of the greatest failure stories in America, on par with the welfare system prior to the reforms of 1996. Even as subsidies have skyrocketed, transit’s share of the transportation market has been steadily diminishing for decades. By any measure, productivity in transit has been declining while the rest of the economy has become much more efficient.

And yet, like welfare before it, transit (government-run transportation) is one of the most cherished programs of the left. If you ever feel the need to be compared to Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini, suggest the elimination of government-run transportation systems.

Let me give you an example from the area I know and love best: the Twin Cities metropolitan region here in Minnesota. We are blessed to have a regional government, unelected, of course, called the Metropolitan Council. Originally created to efficiently provide sewer and water service to the growing metropolitan area and coordinate planning among the zillion sovereign governments in the area, it has morphed into an unelected government spending over $600 million in tax dollars a year.

Of this, the Metropolitan Council spends over $300 million per year on providing transit services for basically Minneapolis and St Paul (most suburbs have opted out of the MetroTransit system)—and yet transit has a market share hovering around 2% of trips.

To put that in perspective, total State and Federal spending for all roads in Minnesota for the same year was $1.6 billion.

In other words, in order to provide about 2% of the trips for Minneapolis and St Paul—the Metropolitan Council consumed 19% of available money for the entire state. For most of us, that looks like a pretty bad deal, right? Spending more than 10 times as much per trip compared to road funding.

Worse yet, these trips can only take place at the government’s direction. You have to show up where they want you, go where they want to take you, and use it when they want to provide it. If there is a “choice” involved here, it’s almost entirely the bureaucracy’s.

But for a liberal, that’s a pretty good deal indeed.

Why? It’s pretty simple really. If what you are interested in is maximizing the number of government jobs and the number of people dependent upon government, transit spending is pretty darned effective. Compared to road funding, in fact, you wind up with many more government employees per dollar spent, and they are almost all permanent employees with union contracts.

And unlike roads, your clients are almost all under your thumb. While automobile drivers tend to go where they want when they want to, and have innumerable alternatives when you close a road or tunnel, transit riders are almost completely dependent. You can tell them where they can go, when they can do it, and even minor changes in bus routes or times can wreak havoc on countless lives.

And you can do all this while appearing to be as virtuous as an angel—after all, you are providing a service to people who would generally be helpless without it. They will even vote regularly to expand your service in the hope that more money will improve it.

Very few cities in America depend upon transit systems in any real sense, and each of those is characterized by tremendous density caused almost unheard-of in any 20th or 21st Century city. New York, Boston, and San Francisco come to mind. In these few cities transit can be seen as a public utility similar to roads—adding substantially to the vital transportation infrastructure necessary for any modern economy.

But for the vast majority of cities, such as Minneapolis and St. Paul, a government-run transportation system is a ridiculous government-employment scheme. Almost all the benefits of the system accrue to a small number of people, and almost all of those are the providers of the service, not the recipients.

In the real world, this system would get scrapped almost immediately, but in the loony world of liberals this is a huge success story. Understand why, and you understand the liberal mind.

In the liberal world, more government employees per dollar spent means more potential voters per tax dollar collected, because government employees are almost always liberals. They are paid to be, after all. And the more inefficient the system, the more liberals employed. And it is easy enough to get those liberals to support more spending for lousy government services, because it means more money in their pocket.

Best of all, because the service is lousy you can always convince everyone else that the system needs more money in order to provide the service better and to more people.

In the liberal world, inefficiency in government is a good thing. It means more government employees, probably unionized. It means more money going through their hands. It means more and more people under their control. What’s not to like?

Never, ever believe a liberal or moderate when they say that government services could be better if we just reformed the system; the liberal is lying, and the moderate is delusional. Government bureaucracies almost always have interests fundamentally in conflict with the people they supposedly serve. Individuals are almost always better off if they can provide for themselves or go into the competitive market to get a service, rather than depend upon government. Bureaucracies are always better off the more people who depend upon them and lack alternatives.

Getting back to transit: here in the Twin Cities we spend almost $2,500/year per daily transit rider, providing truly lousy service. What if we provided means-tested transportation vouchers to truly needy clients? I’d bet a million dollars that the system would be vastly better than what we have now.

It’ll never happen, of course. Because liberals won’t let it. They like inefficient government because it serves their needs well. That’s why we need to fight them every day and in every way we possibly can.

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About The Author

David Strom is the President of the Minnesota Free Market Institute. He hosts a weekly radio show on AM-1280 "The Patriot" in Minneapolis-St. Paul, available on podcast at Townhall.com.

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Andrews+Conman= (-Lilly)
Fairly new at TH, I am impressed with the depth and value of the discussions and feel relieved that there are people, like the above, who consider deductive reasoning rather than appearance.
Lilly does seem to be an articulate spokesperson for a liberal point of view. And,like liberals, sorry Tallil2long, disappears when their point of view is exposed to the light. Now, and this is interesting to my mind, Lilly will do this again, and again, how do they not know the shallowness of their arguments and fear being exposed, or do they? Are they incapable of depth of thought and simply can't help themselves, or is it more sinister?

Tallil2long- I have not been to Salon or Huffington, but I will lurk around there to try and get a feel for why you think there is some value to this point of view and equivalence to conservative thought.

Andrews
I took a look at that 'Amtrek' (a takeoff on 'startrek', I guess) satire site.

When I selected the trip planner for the 'Smuggler's Limited', I nearly blew a gasket. As in all humor, the best is based on fact. I read an article about the old CA Zephyr line that was taken over by Amtrak was riden primarily by oldsters who weren't particularly interested in getting anywhere quickly (good thing: if it was on time, it would have been an accident) but just liked riding trains - and dope runners.

It was easy for the DEA: they figured anyone stupid enough to be riding that train and fit the profile, had to be a mule. Sure enough, most random searches struck paydirt.

I was thinking: there's the NRPS's 'Henry' and Guthrie's 'City of New Orleans'. There should be a song; or a movie about the 'Smuggler's Limited', something like what Mitchum did with 'Thunder Road'.

Trains, Buses, and Automobiles
It seems some of you posters, especially the Liberals, haven't bothered to read the article sitting above all these postings.

As I see it, David Strom is directing much of his wrath against Minnesota, specifically the Twin Cities. He briefly talks about the country's big cities and their need for good mass transit, but he isn't railing against New York City or Washington DC mass transit systems, crappy as they may be.

My answer above comes from the friendly confines of Connecticut where mass transit consists of buses. The New Haven railroad is a line into New York City and northern destinations. Nobody is willing to junk that system. I lived in Milford CT for a number of years, and rode a lot of buses after I was disabled. The Milford Transit buses had mighty few passengers, often allowing me a solo ride.

The New Haven buses are half empty a lot of the time, and their schedules are terrible, especially since they don't always keep to them. Changing buses to get somewhere is a royal pain, too. Bus stops are well known for their heat of the summer and cold of the winter, as well as the northeastern rain and snow. I also received an insect infestation from a bus ride, and it took months to get rid of it---perhaps they were just on the bus for the ride?

So, in lieu of buses, I think my idea of a fleet of cabs is a cheaper and more efficient way to go for the segment of the population that needs it. I'm all for vouchers.

In Europe, where personal taxes are high and socialism is rampant, of course there's money to get 200 mph trains. In the case of France, I guess that would be a convenient way to retreat. Most European countries are a lot smaller than the US is, and it has to be easier to set up and operate mass transit. [They've also had a couple hundred years cultural head start.] It's been more of a heritage there than here to get around by foot or group transit, along with Vespas, bicycles, and donkey carts.

By the way, Lilly. I see you haven't read the article either. That always helps before you start railing against Conservatives. Early in the postings, you were extolling the beauty and efficiency of the Washington DC mass transit system---telling us how great things were after the messy construction. And then in a later posting, you have agreed that it's a crappy system. But then, I don't suppose inconsistency bothers you, does it?

"Close Enough For Government Work"
Almost certainly coined by a liberal. Liberals will believe anything they want to and nothing they don't. Same with their taking of responsibility. They want as much control over others and their money as possible and will always be supported by the people to whom they give that money. They can be spotted a mile away when confronted with the truth. They will be hollering loud and fast in an attempt to get the bringer of truth to shut up. Also, their opinion is almost always based on BS and sound like an idiot to any knowledgeable person who lives in the real world or at least knows where the real world is. It is sickening that many government officials are liberals. I gotta go throw up. Where's a liberal when you need one?

In response to Lolo
On the contrary, I have had many dealings with those on the left. I very frequently debate them over on HuffingtonPost and Salon. I have repeatedly been accused of being a murderer, rapist, and Nazi simply due to being a soldier. Those who 'support soldiers' merely accuse me of being a poser when I disagree with their views; that way they can attempt to discredit me without seeming to attack 'the troops'!

But the very worst practice of many liberals (not all, to be honest) is instantly demonizing anyone who doesn't agree with them. I have recently encountered several TH posters who do the same. I truly think that conservatives MUST be adults in debate, MUST be reasonable and self-disciplined, because someone has to and those skills are apparently no longer valued or being taught by many on the left.

wbheff
You say the cost of gasoline has steadily declined?
In 1970 when I started driving I made minimum wage,$1.60per hour,I could get name brand gas in the DC area for 30 cents gallon. In Florida and Louisiana I pid a bout 20 ecnts a gallon.Now in N California the cheapo discount gas is 3.29 a gal. and minimum wage is 5 something. In 71 I could get 5 gallons for an hours basic labor,now I can get a gallon and a half.

BTW public spending on Freeways IS public transportation spending.

$
Spare yourself the bleeding eyes, stop trying to think about it if it's that hard to for you understand. By reading about it you still appear to be trying. Some of the most Liberal people call themselves Conservatives, so I don't blame you if you're confused.

Andrews
You misconstrued my remarks. In the context you were writing, I should not have used freight carriers which suggested I meant railroads. I meant the middle class taxpayers who are pulling the rickety public transportation carts.

I liked the way you answered lilly illustrating an appreciation for economics that is becoming increasingly rare. Lilly, on the other hand, indicates a perfect ignorance of economic considerations.

She assumes the cost of public transportation is covered by her fare. It used to be that way when the railroads, bus lines, trams, etc. were privately owned. They covered their costs or went out of business and that meant actually providing a service the public was willing to pay their price for. This is not the case wherever transportation has become 'public', in which case taxpayer subsidy is then the rule. And the insulting and offensive part is that they contemptuously vilify that very same taxpayer.

The disappearance of basic courses such as Home Economics from the curriculum, another liberal contribution since they took over this nation's public school systems, probably explains such ignorance. Widespread understanding of any public enterprise's costs is the last thing the liberal/socialist bureaucrats want.

PS Notice Mike: 'Stupidest column ever on TH'. Actually, an important point was made here but when liberals are caught with their pants down and blubbering, it's always let's move on.

Stupidest column ever on TH
Did this guy graduate from high school?

Just looking for excuses
"...the left’s solution to all the world’s ills is to create a bureaucracy"

This is not true. The Left is not looking to solve problems but rather excuses to expand government. The problem they are trying to solve is what they perceive as not enough government control over our lives. Their latest rage, man-caused global warming, is the best example of that at the moment.

If the Left truly wanted to solve the problem of transportation for those who cannot drive, they would simply have an existing agency contract with local taxi drivers and issue vouchers to the needy.

ulsterscott
Actually, the 80 hours a week was referring to some of my own tax woes. Where I have withholding take 1/3 of my pay and I still owe thousands at the end of the year.

But among those few who work in France, someone has to be working a lot of hours. With the double digit unemployment, and the incentive the strict laws about firings provide to slack off, there have to be a handful of really dilligent frenchment keeping their country from going to pot. Same way there had to be a hard core of a few swedes who kept their country working (though a lot of those were contractors from Britain).


ulsterscott
Do the French actually work? I guess somebody has to manufacture those white flags!

Tallil2long
There is some sense in what you say. The exception always proves the rule and for every rule there is an exception. However, living in the land of the extremem left I can tell you the author is pretty much on the mark. I get the feeling that you haven't dealt with the left up close and personal.

Public Tranpsortation
Before going further I will say that even for moderately sized cities there is a societal benefit to be derived from prodiving transportation to those who for financial or physical reasons cannot provide it for themselves. I also need to remember that one day I will be in that same boat as those folks.

I rode public transit (buses) in a medium sized city as an experiment. I personally found the following to be true:
1-It was cheap,
2-Despite the convenience of a bus stop 100 feet from my house it was difficult to use,
3-It took twice as long during rush hour to get to my job as by car,
4-If I missed the bus I was an hour late for work, not 15 minutes.
5-I learned a lot about telemarketing (a lot of cold callers rode that bus).
6- I could have parked closer to my office than the bus would get me.


BTW did someone imply that the French work 80 hours a week?

The Freights
Guys, the freight railroads are not suffering any more. They've cut out unprofitable lines, cut costs, consolidated and are competing. The are even on a hiring binge. Norfolk Southern likes to say "We're not afraid of 18 wheels."

Conman pt 2
Though of you like to mock our ailing passenger system check out: http://amtrek.net/ . My father laughed out loud (after cursing at me for making fun of his job).

Conman
The freights are suffering, but at least they got semi-privatized and managed to get the profitable half of the business. When my father worked for Amtrak police (he retired from the county police and went to work for the rr), the GOAL of Amtrak was revenues equal to 66% of costs. And they NEVER MET IT. That is just sad.

lilly
I don't know if you are still looking for an answer but. . . I think the point that the article is getting at is that big cities--in America--have public transportation that may be needed. But smaller cities are wasting their money trying to act like the big boys--New York, D.C. ect. Jumping on to the liberal line that if that's what someone else is doing to look good I should do it too.
His example of MN is right on. I live in CO, we have a public transit system--it is crap. No one rides it. In 29 years of living in my city I have NEVER seen a bus even 1/4 full. Yet a huge % of our tax money goes toward the upkeep of this system. WHY? So that city counsil, mayors and other elected officials have something to point to that they have done for the people. So that the liberal mind will say to itself "I'll vote for that guy--he cares for people" Yet the liberal body gets into its car and drives to work like the rest of us.
In the middle sized cities we are too spread out for any kind of central transit system. My city--while lower on the population scale--covers a huge amount of square miles. I have to drive my child to school 7 miles away--it takes 25-30 minutes. If I took the bus it would take 2 1/2 hours. Why would anyone do that?
I would love to see my tax dollars going for something more efficient--like a better freeway--than to see "cool" new buses running empty. But it is never going to happen--public transportation is a sacred cow of the left and they will never let go of that money and put it to better use.

Andrews
Hear, hear. You might also note that the freight carriers as a class (say middle for argument) is getting smaller and smaller, either taxed/regulated into non-production or taxed/property confiscated into poverty.

Lilly Part 2
And before you tell me I am wrong, please tell me what tax bracket you fall under. Not how much you make or how much you paid, I am not that nosy. Just what percentage of your income you paid.

Actually, not your tax bracket per se, but the percentage of income you paid in federal taxes.

it is funny, but the left always seems to be either those earning too little to pay taxes or those earning so much they shelter all their income and payt very little (Kerry, for example and his 15% tax rate).

Then they tell me I should not mind coughing up money so they can enjoy museums and railroads and everything else. (Yes, Lilly I read earlier posts where you gushed about government services.) Funny, how comfortable those paying very little are spending my money for me.

Lilly
That is precisely the complaint against liberal policies. Your attitude towards French trains. yes, it is wonderful for you, you aren't paying for it. When you slave away 80 hours a week and don't bring home enough to afford a train ride, it certainly seems like a crime against humanity.

It is only those who get more than they pay for who find the government a good deal. those who pay the taxes tend to have a different take. Which is why our progressive tax system, where 50% or more pay no or almost no taxes encourages this sort of bad thinking. It is easy to enjoy government spending when it is on someone else's dime.


Thanks for responses
The question is whether public transportation can survive and function without government subsidy. I understand that it's so good in Europe because government pays for it. But when you are over there and you are streaking through the wheatfields of France heading for Paris at 200 mph, the train doesn't really feel like a crime against the nation. If feels convenient. You can literally get anyplace from anyplace in Europe on fast, frequent, clean, efficient trains.

I agree that the public transportation stinks in the DC area. And the traffic is awful. Since Flexi-Time for government employees came in what, twenty, thirty years ago, the surrounding interstates have been bumper-to-bumper in all lanes from about 4 AM. But trying to get to work on buses takes three or four times as long.

But that's not what my query addresses. I am speaking of big cities like New York and Chicago where literally millions of people report to work. I just don't see how they could get there without public carriers. Any thoughts on that ?

Robert Michels
The above author wrote about the bureaucratic tendencies about 100 years ago in:

The Iron Law of Oligarchy

"Michels (1911) came to the conclusion that the formal organization of bureaucracies inevitably leads to oligarchy, under which organizations
originally idealistic and democratic eventually come to be dominated by a small, self-serving group of people who achieved positions of power and responsibility. This can occur in large organizations because it becomes physically impossible for everyone to get together every time a decision has to be made. Consequently, a small group is given the responsibility of making decisions.

Michels believed that the people in this group would become enthralled with their elite positions and more and more inclined to
make decisions that protect their power rather than represent the will of the group they are supposed to serve.

In effect Michels was saying that bureaucracy and democracy do not mix. Despite any protestations and promises that they would not become like all the rest, those placed in
positions of responsibility and power often come to believe that they too are indispensable, and more knowledgeable than those they serve. As time goes on, they become further removed from the rank and file...

The Iron Law of Oligarchy suggests that organizations wishing to avoid oligarchy should take a number of precautionary steps. They should make sure that the rank and file remain active in the organization and that the
leaders not be granted absolute control of a centralized administration. As long as there are open lines of communication and shared decision making between the leaders and the rank and file, an oligarchy cannot easily develop.

Clearly, the problems of oligarchy, of the bureaucratic depersonalization described by Weber, and of personal alienation all are interrelated. If individuals are deprived of the power to make decisions that affect their
lives in many or even most of the areas that are important to them, withdrawal into narrow ritualism (overconformity to rules) and apathy are likely responses. Such withdrawals seemed to constitute a chronic condition in some of the highly centralized socialist countries. However,
there are many signs of public apathy in the United States, too. For example, in 1964 about 70 percent of those eligible to vote for president did so. In each of the succeeding national elections this figure has dropped, and in 1988 it was only 50 percent."

_________________________________________________

In other words, the bureacracies take on purposes quite apart from the reasons they were created, centered around the needs and desires of the management. And as it drifts further away from those original purposes, it alienates those whom it was meant to serve.

As government bureaucracies continue to grow and proliferate, we are confronted with the discouraging prospect of rule by fascist bureaucrats in every facet of our lives which operate quite apart form the elected portion of the government. The apathy takes the form of non-participation in the elective process as the realization sets in that whatever politician holds elected office matters not to the individual in how he is affected.

Why do the liberals always need more and more tax dollars? Not to do more good as they claim but to create more and more bureaucratic control. Some politicos have run on limited gov't platforms but has anyone ever seen a gov't bureaucracy dismantled?

This is also why a socialist system - rule by bureaucracy - is so inherently dangerous despite liberal assertions that communist/socialist systems failed in the past because the 'right' type of individual never ruled them.

Total BS. Why? Because the most brutal always rise to the top (read Hayek). Nothing's new except the for the history you don't know.

Typos
To carry, not to call. And that is just the one I noticed.

My typing is very bad today, sorry for all the typos.

Zoomfast
You forgot "smart growth" policies, which slowed or stalled growth in many counties near DC, driving up housing costs tremendously and driving people farther and farther out. Then those counties opposed building any new infrastructure, so the roads are perpetually congested.

Lastly, DC instituted stringent HOV lanes, meaning that there is one less lane available to most commuters. (An informal survey showed me the HOV lanes carry about 1 car for every 4 or 5 in another lane, but each car has only 2 people almost eveyr time. Thus these lanes are reserved to call 2/5 to 1/2 as many people as the other lanes, increasing congestion.)

In general, the "smart growth" rules and opposition to "suburban sprawl" (especially here in MD, especially under Gov. Glendenning) created most of the problems it was supposed to cure.

And that is probably the primary reason the Metro has any riders at all.

By the way, I would point out to Lilly that the Metro is still losing money and needs a subsidy increase, AND a fare increase, according to the Metro administration lately. So it isn't quite the efficient joy she describes.

Liberalism 101
Strom is another right wingnut gas bag making patently false generalizations about liberals and their motives. His liberal bashing reflects poorly on himself and conservatives in general, although I have the presence of mind to realize that not all conservatives are like him, and plenty of them have well thought out, reasonable viewpoints, some of which I agree with.

There was some meat to Strom's article, but that was overshadowed by his mindless bashing of liberals. He should take lessons from good thinkers like W.F. Buckley, Jr., Joe Scarborough, and a host of other conservatives who stick with reasoned arguments and opinions.

How the gov't killed long distance rail
Actually, since Lilly brought up rail, I want to point out he gov't killed rail travel. By splitting Amtrak from Conrail, the Gov't created a losing proposition, passenger-only railt.

traditionally, the same lines ran long distance freight and passengers (short commuter lines are a different matter). The passenger trains were not money makers, but were "offsets" against the costs of moving an engine.

You see, friehgt makes money. But a lot of times you have an engine at station A and need it at B to run frieght. It is pure loss to just run it from A to B, so you schedule a passenger run. Even if it loses money, it lsoes less than just running a bare engine.

In addition, before the threat of antitrust suits, the lines ran restaraunts and hotels which often made more money on travelers than the rail lines did.

So, by antitrust suits, the feds kille dthe profitable support businesses (taverns, hotels, restaraunts, etc.) and then by splitting freight and long distance passenger rail, they made sur elong distance passenger lines would run at a perpetual loss.

Note, none of this applies to short-haul commuter rail lines which were always profitable in some areas and not in other.

Also, Lilly, concerning DC, the metro is popular because of incredibly inadequatew parking and raods. DC is very unwilling to allow new lots and to expand roads. In addition, the height caps in the city prevent building adequate multistory parking structures. So, by creating dense sprawl, and then having too few highways (the ICC in Montgomery county took 20 years to get approved), the Metro is the only viable way to travel without perpetual parking problems and horrible traffic jams. (When I drove, I had 3-4 hour commutes, 1 way on bad days. Going the same distance to Baltimroe took only 1 hour at most.)

So, DCs por urban planning and anti-growth laws (as well as the anti-growth policies of surrounding counties) were at fault for many problems which made the metro seem better than the alternatives. I still note, driving and metro takes twcie as long as driving alone when going a comparable distance to Baltimore.

Another Approach
David, your approach is wrong. The bureaucrats are ordinary people doing a job. People tend to go where the jobs are. It's the policy makers (politicians) that deserve the criticism.

It seems the collectivists - whether liberal or conservative, democrat or republican have a need to control everyone but themselves. If you look at any collectivist scheme, you will typically find a drain on the average Joe's wallet in an effort to control him for his so-called own good and have him pay for it. This can be through the government for mass transit by diverting highway funds, or the private sector through our utilities as well as other schemes. They are good at using other people's money for their own agenda.

I believe that mass transit has its place in some cities as a result of the way they - the cities - evolved. But these mass transit systems are only treating a symptom, they are not a solution to either providing transportation-challenged people with transportation or to reduce congestion. If all the money ever siphoned off of the now nonexistent Federal highway trust fund was used for its originally intended purpose, we as a nation would not be in the transportation mess we find ourselves in, or at least it wouldn't be as bad depending on choices made. As for the trasportation-challenged, a fraction of the funds local governments spend on supporting regional councils of governments could go to providing subsidized taxi service to these individuals.

I am in the DC area and see first hand the results of implementing a mass transit system and other anti-car policies. The market determines who can live within walking distance to a transit stop. I can't afford to live close enough to one now and didn't want to live near a proposed one before it was built because of high crime and the need to rebuild the neighborhoods. These neighborhoods have now been rebuilt and ony the rich can afford to buy a dimunitive residence.

I now drive 40 minutes to catch a train that takes an hour and a half to get to DC so that I can catch the Metro (subway) for a fifteen minute ride to the office. The distance isn't that great; it's all the stops and waiting for a mass transit ride that adds time to a trip that would otherwise take 50 minutes on weekends.

The commute has grown worse because of the anti-car policies implemented over the years. When I first arrived in this area over three decades ago, I was able to drive to work in about 30 minutes and park on the street. I had the freedom to come and go as needed and enjoyed some private cruising time on the way to and from work. As a result of the anti-car policies of the city, on-street parking eventually ended. So I paid to park in a garage. But as density increased and employers were strongly encouraged to end free parking for their employees, commercial parking rates increased or parking garages were closed down. Eventually I was forced to take various means of transportation into the city over the years - bus, van pool, car pool, and now train and metro - all to try to keep commuting costs down and minimize commuting time.

I've seen my individual rights taken away over the years. I have been forced from my car into joining the mass transit crowds to commute to work. The policies that caused this are many and subtle and are constantly on-going. These policies are not just transportation-related. They involve the Federal income tax code, land use policies, health policies, environmental mitigation (a big one), and so forth. The collectivists will not be happy until they can tell every one of us what we can do for a living, where we can live, how we are to live there, and dictate our travel. Familiar with "Papers, please"???

In response to plehi
I believe that modern American liberalism is and will be incredibly damaging to America. The great majority of the changes that needed to be made in America were made some time back. It appears to me that American liberalism defines itself by the notion of perpetual change; but there is a way that works best, and change beyond that is actively bad.
Thus, I do not consider 'conservatism' as bad as 'liberalism'.
I DO consider some conservatives to be as bad as some liberals, particularly when those conservatives adopt the same awful tactics, such as name-calling, demonizing anyone who disagrees with one's own view, and stereotyping.
If you can't deal with a reasonable approach, then so be it.

Lilly
The trains only have so many stations where they stop.People that ride those trains into the city have to drive to those stations.Cross country train travel would be alot better today had the govt. subsidised theRR's.The RR's were losing money with passenger trains as freight trains were much longer and didn't have to stop as often.

T. Tom Sawyer
There is no such animal as a "Liberal Capitalist", nor "Conservative Capitalist" for that matter.

A man who attempted to espouse such diametrically opposed ideas and philosophies simultaneously would bleed from his eyes in confusion.


Please excuse the misspellings above
impplied should be implied
fet should be get
getss should be gets
federeal should be federal

A Few Lies in the Responses...
The first lie I saw was the one about the need to invade foreign countries to insure(sic) the oil supply.

The second lie is that conservatives never want things to change (for the better was impplied, though not stated).

Conservatives, and I count myself one, want things to change for the better. I would love to see individual initiative and hard work be rewarded instead of being punished because you move to a higher tax bracket. I would love to see laziness and sloth punished by low income and inadequate diet. Handicapped people are the exceptions and should be helped.

I would love to see the needy rely on private charity, which is immmensely more efficient, than government charity. Private charity getss close to 80% of donations into needy hands while government requires $10 to fet $1 to needy hands. Look it up.

The only constitutional powers our federeal government has is to regulate interstate commerce and to provide for the common defense. That includes highways if you go back and look at why we have an interstate system.

By the way Lilly, I agree that the European trains are nice, but you completely ignore the demographics and scale of size that the United States has to deal with. That is why trains, once tried, no longer run except with government assistance.

There are a lot more conservative values than the ones I personally hold that I espoused above, but to denigrate conservatives as not wanting to change is as silly as saying liberals only want to change things for the worse.

There are good ideas on both sides. Leftists always want a new goveernment program and always fail to state how to pay for it.

No Answer Yet
I am still hoping to hear from anti-public transportation people their solution for people to get to work in a big city. 1) Much of the work that goes on in a city is capitalism at its finest---we aren't just talking about bureaucrats going to government offices. So I assume you want people to get to work. 2) There is not physically enough space for every worker to drive a car into the city and park it there all day. 3) If they did, street and highway congestion would be impassable. 4) Because parking space is at a premium, the price to be paid for it would be: premium. In fact, it already is.

OK fine, I hear you, you don't want public transportation. What, then?

BTW, apart from people going to work, I notice that on the occasion of major sporting events, parades, and festivals (we have multiple events going on here every week) our subways and buses are jammed with those public transportation-hating suburbanites who come into town for the day. Do you want all these folks to drive? Daily parking downtown now runs around $40 per day.

NO MENTION OF BUSH?
And the largest expansion of government in history?

If you were unlucky enough to have lost a pet because of tainted pet food, thank Bush for allowing industry to regulate itself.

Public Transportation
I've worked in transportation all my life (yes I'm a government employee but not liberal). The following observations have been generally true for many years:

1-The share of people using public transit have been declining since about 1929. It even declined during the great depression. There was a short uptick during and after WWII. (Any ideas on why that might be?) If you look at census data you may discover that a higher percnetage of people walk to work than ride any form of transit.

2-Rail transit is a rational response to traffic congestion in about 4 or 5 US cities. (New York, Chicago, Washington DC, Boston, and ???) Densities matter. Note that the most recent of these cities is Chicago which was laid out in the 1860's. London BTW was laid out by the Romans over 1000 years ago. Also both the New York and Chicago systems were initially put in place by the private sector.

3-The first thing a welfare recipient does after getting a job is to buy a cheap care. Cars are as much about mobility and self determination as transportation.

4-The nostalgic transit systems of the early 1900s had really poor service. Sound familiar?

5-Initial transit ridership is almost always overestimate by between 10% and 50% while costs are always underestimated. There are institutional reasons for this situation which I won't go into.

6-The capital costs of mass transit systems are generally a pretty good deal because FTA pays for up to 80% of the construction cost. For better or worse the operating costs are entirely paid for by the local government.

7-Rail systems cause suburban sprawl in a similar fashion to highways.

8-Infrastructure is expensive no matter what the cost. Over the past eight years federal spending has shifted from capital (roads, dams, bridges, and buildings) to recurring costs (social security, education, & welfare[both individual and corporate]) so that now over 50% of funding does to non-capital items. In a relatively short time (2009) the federal transportation trust fund will be broke.

9-The Italians say that Mussolini made the trains run on time by the simple expedient of the stationmasters and train conductors changing the clocks.

10-Traditionally the employees of large transit systems are memebers on the public payroll and memeber of the union. This includes trainmen, motormen, drivers, mechanics, and bureacrats.

Enough of this screed.



same spin, different day
Tallil2long, thank you for having some sense.

I am really disappointed in the author of this article? What was the point of it? To discuss an inefficient mass transportation system, or to bash liberals?

Since bashing liberals is simply rhetorical auto eroticism, I'm going to assume the real goal was the transportation issue, unless he *wants* to be a jerk off...

Anyway, this article has an interesting topic and poses a serious question about the viability of transportation, but doesn't offer a solution until the final paragraph, at which is one sentance long and features no analysis. The other problem is that it's mucked up in the kind of partisan hackery that both liberals and conservatives are equally guilty of. The kind that lets people say "yeah, the other side sucks" and feel good about themselves while doing a disservice to the public discourse.

At the very least, if you want to see positive change, be positive, no-nonsense, and whatever you do, dont verbally assault half the country, even if you feel they may be contributing to the problem.

Also, I do believe it disingenuous to simply apply the woes of the transportation system to a system of political control. It's far too hasty a cause, and ignores things like the fact that our current transportation model is based on one over half a century old that used to be very efficient in the time but may not be so great anymore.

Dont get me wrong, I like the idea of re-evaluating a government system to see if it can be done more efficiently and still provide the same or greater level of service to the citizenry.

Perhaps, let me give an example of how I would have preferred to see this article go about?

a) the current system is ineffecient (show stats)
b) possible historical and cultural causes for breakdown on system (maybe just outdated?)
c) proposal(s) for new system design
d) suggestions for "test cities" where the new systems can be temporarily implemented to see if they really do work better than the current system.
e) resource ideas on how to take the idea nationally if they prove to be successful in test cities.

Lets be better than this, and actually work towards change, rather than trying to screw each other at every availible step.

Need Explanation Please
Is the conservative philosophy that we should have no public transporation? That everyone should drive to work in a private automobile? I understand the part about using "a fleet of cabs" to serve the elderly and disabled, but does that mean everybody else should drive their cars?

If you live and work in the suburbs, usually there is no convenient alternative to driving. But how about the millions who live and work in big cities?

I don't intend rhetorical questions here. Am hoping for serious answers.

Two Thoughts
1) I lived in Washington DC during the years when the Metro subway/surface commuter train system was under construction. Politicians used to write articles in the Post about how immoral it was to use public funding for this system when the red-blooded American Way would be to put the money into bigger and better suburban highways. Merchants complained because streets were torn up and their businesses suffered. Everything was a big mess. Then one day the system was finished and the trains were beautiful, clean, fast, frequent, and efficient. Also full of people. Especially on snow days. And now everyone loves them. "If you build it, they will come."

2) Do townhallers travel? If you land at a US airport, chances are great that you can't get away from it unless you rent an automobile. But if you land at a European airport, chances are great that you can get on a local train that will take you into town. Do you want to go somewhere else? Train stations are centrally located, full of services, functional. From them, you can take a train from anywhere to anywhere. Service will be frequent and fast. Suppose your international flight lands in Zurich: the train station is just down the escalator in the airport terminal---you can transfer from your plane to a train to, say, Innsbruck or Paris or Venice. The train will be comfortable. As it quietly moves out of the station, a man will appear at your seat offering hot chocolate and coffee. Train conductors will have encyclopedic knowledge of borders, schedules, passports, routes, and many will be multi-lingual. You can snooze, read, enjoy the scenery---rather than struggle with 80 mph expressways and international road rage.

I used to go on a travel message board on which information was exchanged. A frequent thing was that an American who had never been to London would speak of his plans to rent a car at Heathrow to drive into the city, expecting to drive himself to all tourist destinations (British Museum, Changing of the Guard, West-end theaters), and would have questions about good places to park. The chorus of resulting screams could be heard right through cyberspace as those of us who had actually been to London would all begin to yell TAKE THE SUBWAY, TAKE THE SHUTTLE BUS---the last thing you want in London is a car.

I do not understand the American aversion to public transportation. This is one of the mysteries of my life. As for the asinine suggestion that buses and subways should be replaced by "a fleet of cabs" to serve the disabled and elderly, what about the millions of younger citizens who just want to go to work in a city where parking can cost $40 a day (yes), gas costs $3.75 a gallon (yes), and traffic congestion can eat your life?

Public transportation improves quality of life.

gov't employees mostly liberals?
An interesting observation.

Please note that most military and first-responder folks are conservative, and especially so for the respective officer corps.

Kane County IL just elected a "democrat" as sheriff, but since taking office (or better: "taking charge") he's been cutting wasteful spending, positions, and "programs." Sounds conservative to me.

liberal goodman
errr---I don't think the author limited the folly of government growth to bureaucrats- blue collar workers are the main sponge that sucks up taxpayer dollars - unionized workers of all types in government are dead wood that need six people to change a light bulb - except it never gets changed.
The author's point being that the goal of liberals is to have the majority of people employed by the government - a "goal" already sadly achieved which will be the end of the "noble experiment".
As to roads servicing less populated areas- you would prefer public transportation to those localities? so that 3 riders for every 5 miles could be transported on the governments' schedule ?
proving once more that liberal solutions derive from having both feet planted firmly in mid-air

SSDD
Ever notice how certain people always include the same lies in everything they write. Example, "There also are external costs with roads, like invading countries to insure oil supplies."
This is the familiar Big Lie tactic, imply that we, oh, pardon me, the evil President Bush, invaded Iraq to get its oil. That is, of course, why the cost of gasoline has steadily declined. And, unless the writer thinks that someone took out an insurance policy on the "oil supply," it should have been "to ensure oil supplies."

What Tallil2long wrote..
I do believe that this person believes that conservatives are just as bad as liberals. He's not including himself in that group of conservatives though. He's in the good group.

It's interesting that you read through a lot of well thought out paragraphs and then you read something like T.Tom Sawyer writes on the subject and someone comes to the conclusion that conservatives are just as goofy as liberals.

Anyway,this article spent a lot of time on Transit and sewerage, but how about education?

How about
The department of homeland security,biggest concentration of beauracratic power in my lifetime. Proves Bush and crew aren't conservative.

No need to generalize, though
Though many liberals may support a thing, there's no need to stereotype and imply that all do. As much as I'm tempted to believe that all liberals think alike, that is no more true than it is with conservatives.

I share the 'conservative' and 'Christian' labels with some people who, quite frankly, are extreme enough to DESERVE the censure they get from many liberals and secularists. However, I don't deserve to share that censure because I don't agree with everything those people say. The entire Conservative end of the the political spectrum doesn't deserve to share the censure of a tiny minority.

If we don't like being stereotyped, we shouldn't stereotype. It would have been quite enough for the author to lay out the case against inefficient, bureaucracy-bloated transit programs and stated that those who DO support such programs are harming America with their bizarre ideologies.
If the shoe fits, they'll wear it.

I'm increasingly disappointed by those of our TH writers that intentionally conjure up images of a faceless, robotic mass of Liberals. If one wants to be taken seriously, one must write and speak responsibly.

And NONE of the above changes the fact that I despise the ever-increasing bureaucratization of America. Most of those bureaus are busy managing things that we used to do for ourselves.

Sure
Conservatives tend to stagnate, they like things the way they are or the way they were. If civilization was left to the devices of Conservatism the wheel itself would never have been invented. "Look at that Liberal with all them fancy wheels, back in the old days we had to drag our wives around, and we liked it." At least Liberal Capitalists try to make the world a better place and sometimes they do. Liberal Politicians are just as bad as any politician, but neo-con politicians are the worst. Neo-con politicians take our tax dollars and intentionally make the work a worse place. Real Conservative politicians are good for keeping bad ideas in check, and maybe mass transit isn't for every city, though it is vital to some. It wasn't intended to make the world worse. I'm reminded of that fact every time I see a handicapped senior citizen in their fancy wheelchair make their way off of a city bus and to the grocery store. Whereas otherwise they would be left to the devices of Conservatives.

Liberal Jobs for Liberal Votes
Causes are always more useful than solutions. Firstly, they last much longer, provide more jobs, study groups, planners and suck up endless tax dollars, all the while buying votes. Solutions on the other hand go in fix a problem and then disappear.What good is that to a liberal who can only offer a government job as payment for a vote. Causes vote solutions do not.

Ever notice?
Ever notice how TH columns always start with a false generalization about liberals?

In this case, liberals want to solve problems with bureaucracy, the example being mass transit systems. For one thing, mass transit is lots of hardware and blue collar workers, not bureaucrats at desks (though there are some of them too). The article complains how expensive they are without mentioning how expensive roads are, particularly those in less populated areas that service few people. There also are external costs with roads, like invading countries to insure oil supplies.

Worse than Atlanta?
This was a great article and acurately describes the liberal mindset. If some gov't project doesn't work it's always because there is not enough money. Usually because the evil, racist, baby-eating conservatives hold the money back to keep the inner-city denisons miserable. Liberalism is a mental disorder, there is no other explanation.

If you think Minneapolis is bad, you've never been to Atlanta. Our "trains" don't even go to Turner Field. Also, money is wasted on a grand scale. Recently Marta's management spent millions of taxpayer dollars on new computer equipment, only to never install it. It was obsolete before it was ever delivered. I wonder which of the mayor's cronies had the contract. Another example of their stupidity involed a not so well thought out publicity program. They super-glued fake, gold Marta tokens near a station only to discover that hobos and bums pried them up and stole them. Only a lib could conceive of such a retarded plan. Also, our system is subsidized through a 1% addition to our sales tax. This resulted in huge retail outlets locating just outside the affected counties. I wonder how much of the city's revenue is lost because of this scheme.

I now wonder if maybe our elected officials refuse to build more roads so they can justify throwing more money at Marta.


So true -
- - that's all, so true.

So you want your roads fixed? (snicker)
A real example... I was very excited to hear about setting some limits on state spending until I actually read the language of a recent referendum, and immediately changed my mind:

"Shall the Minnesota Constitution be amended to dedicate revenue from a tax on the sale of new and used motor vehicles over a five-year period, so that after June 30, 2011, all of the revenue is dedicated at least 40 percent for public transit assistance and not more than 60 percent for highway purposes?" - actual verbiage.

This constitutionally sets in stone the minimum amount of the monies that will go towards government transportation. They fooled our public into thinking the roads were going to get fixed, when in fact it guarantees no such thing, and our liberal legislature can go ahead and continue to ignore the road problems. Go figure...

Fight Liberals
Conservativsm 101: "We need to fight liberals every day and in every way we possibly can."

Sounds like a winner of an ideology.

Public trans (RTD) in CO is a joke
Like the waste Jeff_Mc describes in MN, RTD is a similar waste here in CO. (As with any liberal operation, "customer service" is dispicable!)

But Is It Cheaper?
Nothing---Nothing---Nothing a Liberal does surprises me, and wasting taxpayer money is a normal event in the Liberal's universe. David, I'll take your word on the statistics in Minnesota.

Wouldn't it be cheaper, though, for the transportation people to set up a large fleet of free cabs and take the poor, ill, or disabled where they need to go. It could operate door-to-door, at any hour, and at a minimum fee.

But you see, that probably wouldn't work either. Able-bodied people [e.g. rich Liberals] would start using it for the convenience and low cost. So, can we win anywhere with good sense?

Being disabled, I rely on public transportation because I can't drive anymore. But, there can certainly be improvements in the local system that would lower the cost tremendously. I'd happily transfer to a system of low cast cabs, if it would reduce Liberal control and taxpayer expense. On the other hand, just give me and all the other disabled a monthly stipend for cab fare. As ridiculous as it sounds, it'll probably be cheaper to the taxpayer in the long run.

In any case, if you're interested in the Liberalist Manifesto I recently unearthed, you can find it on my blog, InOpinoVeritas.Townhall.com or click on my name.

HA!
Just follow the stench of rotting constitutionalism.

http://takeourcountryback.townhall.com/g/fe24d5a4-e8d8-457f-81c2-b8ad5d40179f

The Leftinistra are truly sick between the ears...especially the twit reid.

Public transportation in MN is a joke
How much did that stupid train from the Mall of America to the airport cost? For a fraction of the price we could have gotten a fleet of cars to transport the 30 people who use it every week.

Makes sense to me
just follow the money.
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