Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Monday, February 12, 2007
David Strom :: Townhall.com Columnist
Liberalism is really about money and power
by David Strom
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


I used to think that liberals were mistaken, but well-intentioned.

Now, I am not so sure.

Of course I still believe that most liberals I meet are genuinely good people, not nefarious plotters out to line their own pockets and accumulate as much power as humanly possible. But I can’t get past the idea that liberals in the public policy world, who are presumably smart and well-informed have ulterior motives.

Why? It’s pretty simple, really. So many things that liberals argue about economics are simply and demonstrably wrong. But even when you prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that they are wrong, the liberals keep mouthing the same basic untruths.

A great example of this is the recent report put out by the Congressional Budget Office on the effect of President Bush’s Capital Gains Tax cuts of 2003.

At the time Bush proposed cutting capital gains taxes, the Joint Committee on Taxation came out with an estimate of how much doing so would cost the Treasury. You see, Congress still uses economic assumptions that changes in the tax rates have no economic impact, so every tax cut brings less money in, and every tax increase adds to government’s bottom line.

Liberals have used this ridiculous assumption to argue against capital gains tax cuts as “tax cuts for the rich,” as if reducing the government’s take on investment profits is somehow a plan to redistribute income from the poor to the wealthy. How many times have we heard the canard that Bush is a toady for a wealthy cabal trying to rape and pillage the economy while they can?

Well, the latest numbers released by the Congressional Budget Office put the lie to that notion. Since the 2003 tax cuts were passed, actual capital gains taxes collected outstripped the estimates by a cumulative $133 billion, or 68% more than was estimated originally. In the past 2 years the estimates were off even more dramatically—by over 100%. Those “rich” people Bush was supposedly selling out to are actually paying much more in taxes than they were before.

How is that possible that the estimates were so dramatically wrong? It’s not like we are talking about estimates many years out—the forecast was made in January 2004, and it was off by over 100% by 2006. Two years, 100% over forecast. Pretty spectacular!

The truth is that every reasonable economist could have told you that the Joint Committee on Taxation was going to be very, very wrong, because tax policy affects economic activity. Lowering the capital gains rate stimulates economic growth, and by extension increases tax revenue for the government. Capital gains tax collections go up as economic activity grows, and of course income taxes rise as incomes get bigger.

Lowering capital gains taxes increases wealth for everybody. As economic growth jumped from under 2% before the tax cuts to over 3%, unemployment dropped and the stock market began to soar. Those “tax cuts for the rich” made everybody in America better off.

Which gets me back to my original point: we’ve seen this movie before, and know the ending. Reducing taxes on income and capital helps to stimulate the economy. The tax cuts from Reagan onward explain why the American economy over the past 25 years has so outperformed our European competitors. When Ronald Reagan was elected, the top marginal tax rate was 70%; today it stands at 35%. And since Reagan’s election our economy has outperformed Europe’s by a large margin.

The evidence is so clear it can be said to be irrefutable. Yet liberals still advocate the false idea that wealth distribution, not wealth creation should be the most important goal of government tax policies. They argue that Europe, not America, has discovered the key to economic success.

Why?

I can only conclude that liberals continue to promote the false belief that the economy is a zero-sum game of the “people vs. the powerful” because it benefits them. The false notion that some cabal of wealthy people is raping the American working man helps liberals gain and keep economic and political power.

That’s why I can no longer believe that the smart and informed liberals are simply mistaken: they can’t be, because the evidence is so clear that “tax cuts for the rich” benefit the entire country. Liberals aren’t well-intentioned but mistaken; they are cynically promoting falsehoods in order to gain money and power.

All the while claiming that conservatives are selfish and liberals are selfless. 1984, anyone?

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author

David Strom is the President of the Minnesota Free Market Institute. He hosts a weekly radio show on AM-1280 "The Patriot" in Minneapolis-St. Paul, available on podcast at Townhall.com.

Be the first to read David Strom's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

truthwanted
Well, you know what, truthwanted? As a conservative , I am mad at those of you who have let the New World Order globalist traitors in our own government enact legislation that has done nothing less than give them an open door to setup a police state in our own country. No, on THIS, you choose to close your eyes. I do not know what the correct name to designate on those who have allowed this, as you so freely assign to others who think we have problems more important than invading countries that have not attacked us, but I'll tell you one thing for sure... "patriot" it is NOT.

Neosoc vs neocons
The neosocs (modern liberal/secular socialist) simply wants the govt to be the main force in all things, not the individual or freedom... they lust for every dollar to buy more votes via more social programs to keep them in power. You object? You are cruel, etc... its a great game plan for campaigning... they have our credit card and slice you up with it. War? It robs the govt of social dollars to create depency and grow libeeral power (secular socialism). Its what they say and its how they vote. Neosocs are neosocs. reform Social Security after taxing it and stealing it? Never... its a great tool to demonize the opposition and get re-elected. Stop illegal immigration? Never... they may vote if we play it right and what a cruelty issue! The list goes on. Reform the income tax? No way... its a great class warfare vote-buying issue...The list goes on... solve nothing, present no real solutions...demonize, drift, name-call... its the liberal (secular socialist) game plan of the generation... and if they mess up? The libmedia changes their diapers daily on cue.

Robert E Lee writes:

"Liberalism is....about using money to obtain power to abolish all moral restraints in the name of "progress" and "equality."

(GOOD ASSESSMENT, Robert. Interesting that some, who think themselves religious, love the liberal garbage, making themselves additional facilitators of the moral decline of the U.S.

Ironic, thinking themselves Godly, they help cause the country to continue to get more unGodly. ("Thinking themselves wise, they became fools.")


Liberalism
"Liberalism is really about money and power." Not exactly. Its about using money to obtain power to abolish all moral restraints in the name of "progress" and "equality."

truthwanted- whoa you sure are angry
you have some really bizarre points of view.

liberals are not socialists. that is like saying because david duke calls himself conservative all conservatives are racists and facists. there may be some liberal who is socialist but 99% are not.
it is simply a ridiculous statement.

i did not vote for bill clinton either time and was abhored by his morals but again, you don't seem to understand the gospels and their message of forgiveness.

the hate you express is not christian and nothing you can say or believe can deny that fact.
God talks about faith hope and love and the greatest of these is love. you seem to have substituted your own biblical interpretation for the truth of that passage.
there are millions of liberal christians and there is a growing liberal protestant movement led by Rev. Hal Wallis and his sojourner magazine.

i have read the bible for 50 years and the anger and hate you exhibit are not part of the bible i have read.

your whole tirade about socialism is so 20th century please join the rest of us in the 21st century.

as far as muslims, israel has been fighting them for 40 years on their doorstep and not once have i heard an israeli express so much hatred as i get from your rantings.
they obviously have more faith in God than you do.

Hate is evil and if you read your bible, i pray your eyes will be opened.

God Bless You

religiouslib writes

my aren't we sarcastic.

(NO, IT WASNT SARCASM. IT WAS ANGER toward those who keep enabling the enemies of america. These enablers and enemies are both IN and OUT of america. I get angry about the blindness in america that enables them. If you are liberal, then you are a socialist. I dont believe that a socialist is really a Christian, because SOCIALISM IS CLEAR EVIL!)

i was raised baptist and come from a family of preachers

(GOOD. THEN I CAN PRAY THAT GOD OPEN YOUR EYES. The church i was in before i moved to my current home, was Baptist, and the Baptist preacher there was as against socialism (liberalism) as much as I am. Obviously, one can be Christian and stupid at the same time (unless it's just that you're a pretend Christian. Did you also like liberal Bill Clinton, who called himself Christian, while facilitating the murder of the unborn, the perversion of homosexuality, the decrease of integrity and honesty, and made the way for muslim murder and destruction in the U.S.?)

so please don't christian bash.
jesus was about love and forgiveness.

(OF COURSE. HE ALSO WAS ABOUT TRUTH, and speaking truth, which you still fail to see, even after i put a quote from Him, right in your face. WAKE UP, before you help destroy america by facilitating evil!!)

dick durbin asked for forgiveness or is that not part of your religious views.

(IT IS. IF he was sincere, and doesnt follow it up with more evil to damage the country, then i do forgive him. But already, he has been endorsing muslim and liberal obama to help the muslim and socialist takeover of this country. How much muslim and socialist destruction is necessary for you and others to WAKE UP?)

i am liberal because i am christian.

(THIS IS RIDICULOUS. Read the Bible. And study it hard, asking discernment from the Holy Spirit. Above all, ask that he give you a heart for truth.)

i believe in the soul.
i believe in the Father,Son and Holy Ghost
i believe in the power of prayer

(THEN PRAY THAT YOU DESIRE TO KNOW THE TRUTH. ("You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."))

and faith
i believe oswald acted alone
i believe in the sweet sound of a basketball swishing through a net.

what do you believe in besides hating christians and your fellow americans.

(I HATE EVIL wherever it comes from. To not hate evil, is to assist evil in harming the innocent. WAKE UP. STOP ASSISTING EVIL!!)

Tax Revenue
in case anyone is still in denial

Tax revenue per fiscal year from OMB

2000 2025.5
2001 1991.4
2002 1853.4
2003 1782.5
2004 1880.3
2005 2153.9

Isn't it about time that revenue started to come in?
We won't talk about the added costs from interest expense on the deficit spending during those revenue up years????

Tax Revenue
I can tell this author failed Econ 101. Tax revenue after 2000 took a dramatic tumble. Gosh, for 4 years it was less that fy2000. It is almost back to the levels before the cuts. Now, let's see. We are spending money like drunken sailors. Is this a stimulus?......Our trade deficit is record. Is this selling our assets? Ok....8th grade econ. Budget deficit, online and off of 600 billion, trade deff of 768 billion, why if the tax revenue doesn't go up soon we won't need to take any economics classes. DUH?

truthwanted
my aren't we sarcastic.

i was raised baptist and come from a family of preachers so please don't christian bash.
jesus was about love and forgiveness.

dick durbin asked for forgiveness or is that not part of your religious views.

i am liberal because i am christian.
i believe in the soul.
i believe in the Father,Son and Holy Ghost
i believe in the power of prayer and faith
i believe oswald acted alone
i believe in the sweet sound of a basketball swishing through a net.

what do you believe in besides hating christians and your fellow americans.

You're kidding right?
Ben says "Ignoring history is an important part of blaming liberals."

Umm, hey scooter, ever heard of the "war on poverty" or gun control?

Talk about ignoring history.

Can anyone tell me, what exactly is progressive about "progressives?"

(sigh)

This is too easy......

religiouslib writes:

"filth at the top of liberalism
how hateful to say those things about your fellow americans.

liberals are not the enemy unless you are a hate america firster."

(OH VALIANT RELIGIOUS ONE, DEFENDER OF DESTROYERS OF AMERICA: May i remind you, oh religious one, that Jesus said to leader scum of his day: "....on the inside, you are rottenness and dead men's bones." That's very similar to the word, "filth", oh religious one. (I suppose you think Jesus was hateful, and that your shallow minded religion is superior to Jesus, oh religious one.) It has nothing to do with hate, oh shallow-minded, smokescreen religious one. It has to do with evil that pollutes this country. It's bad enough to have ANY of it. It's totally unacceptable to have it in positions of authority, polluting many.

You want to be polluted, oh religious one, great. Have at it, but get it out of this country!!

And oh smokescreen liberal, how is that you dishonestly say that durbin is no enemy when out of his traitor mouth comes, "U.S. military is like hitler gulag....." And you say this is not an enemy of america. Just how stupid are you???? Or is it severe dishonesty???? Which one oh religious one??????? Your religion has to be Satan worship. You dont even have enough sense to care that traitors are in govt!! What abject stupidity!!)

Empirical evidence
Politicians of all stripes, Congress Critters as much as any, do get sucked into the power game. It seems inevitable. You can argue whether dems or republicans are better or worse, but the clear difference is what the voter says! Liberal voters never seem to worry about character faults of their elected politicians. The list of democratic politicians past and present who drown their mistresses, store their payola in their freezer, philander with their pages, etc and continue to be re-elected is impressive. When republican politicians get caught misbehaving, the republican party asks them to step down or the voters vote them out at the next opportunity. Compare Trent Lott, a genuinely nice man with the king of pork from WV. Mr Lott made a private comment to a doddering old man at a birthday celebration that could have been construed as an offence against blacks, but probably wasn't. This is the same guy who after assuming the leadership of the Senate proceeded to bend over to virtually every dem in the Senate in the name of bi-partisanship and could arguably have been the most democrat friendly republican in Congress (Jim Jeffords notwithstanding). But for having made an offhand remark that might have offended a group of Americans, he elected to step down from his leadership position. Meanwhile the old buzzard (errr Byrd) from WV who has made racist remarks of his own and who was (is?) a klansman is revered among democrats, especially for his knowledge of parliamentary procedures and arcane rules of the senate which was used to hinder and disrupt the republican majority. The reason we got Denny Hastert as leader of the House was thanks to Democratic operatives exposing the indiscretions of republican leaders like Gingrich and Livingston. They had the decency to step down or the shame to avoid further muckraking. I won't make apologies for their misbehavior, but I don't see the balance from the dem side. Clinton had as bad or worse judgement and list of indiscretions, but dems urged him to fight on and obstructed any and all efforts to hold him accountable.

You can say what you want about politicians and their politics, but there is no comparison when it comes to protecting their own in the face of apparent or proven misdoings.

JefferyP writes:
(THIS SUMS UP THE SITUATION, EXACTLY):

"you have the true believers

(those who Strom refers to as, "mistaken, but well-intentioned". But the following description, by JefferyP, is a more accurate description.)

who feel*** they're really helping. The true believers don't care about results

(they do care about results, but think anything is acceptable (lies, treachery, thievery, murder, hyper-regulation, anything) to get the results they want)

, cost, or whether the policies they demand do more harm than good.

(A GREAT POINT, and the BIG POINT: With the ever-increasing attempt to manipulate society, through govt, law, (supposed) education, main liar garbage media, (supposed) journalism...., etc., MUCH more harm is done than good, especially the harm of REAL INFRINGEMENT ON FREEDOM (as opposed to the phony "rights" (of evil) mantra).

Each new stupid manipulation by govt and other social engineers, is the next reduction in genuine freedom. Those who want this garbage, want a reduction of their freedom. What a stupid choice!! Worse yet, they infringe on the freedoms of others. And as pointed out by Strom, more addtional manipulations (such as his example, tax thievery) also cost the U.S. economically (as opposed to the liar mantra, "tax breaks for the rich", spewed by socialist lying scum in positions of authority. (and btw, i'm so poor, i pay no tax. I'm not saying this out of selfish motive, but because it's TRUE AND RIGHT, an unusual view taken in these days of the many who are SO selfish)).

They only care about feeling good about themselves.

(This is great PSYCHOLOGICAL INSIGHT into why fools keep pressing on with their social engineering desire: They have such LOW SELF ESTEEM, that they think the more they manipulate, the more "good" they're doing, when in reality, it is the more BAD THEY'RE DOING (especially in stealing legitimate, healthy and productive freedoms)).

They're better than us because they "really care." Everything is relative and facts don't matter.

It's the puppet masters who want more power who keep perpetuating the myths, distortions and lies.

(PERFECTLY SAID of many of the filth that are polluting authority positions. And their blind puppets cant even see this OBVIOUS TRUTH!!)

Anybody can look at the facts and determine that cutting tax rates actually raises the taxes collected. But the demagogues and the MSM keep the true believers inflamed by repeating rhetoric while obscuring the facts.

(Again, beautifully said. And the puppets of MSM (main garbage liar media) and the demagogues (liars in positions of authority), continue to support these filth, at great expense to the U.S., especially genuine freedom in the U.S.

For all those who think social engineering is a good thing, take a look at such places as iran, former USSR, Hitler's Germany...., etc, AND GO TO SUCH PLACES. YOU'RE NOT NEEDED HERE, RUINING THIS COUNTRY, which was made the best country ever, through FREEDOM, NOT THROUGH SOCIAL ENGINEERING!!)

laborlawyer
If you think what Coulter and Malkin say about libs are bad, just read what is said about religious leaders, ie. pharisees in the New Testament. What is said about the attitudes of the two groups apply equally.

filth at the top of liberalism
how hateful to say those things about your fellow americans.

liberals are not the enemy unless you are a hate america firster.

liberalgoodman
That's one of Prager's favorite sayings. Obviously he never reads the comments here on Townhall or the other conservative blogsites. Or Ann Coulter. Or Michelle Malkin. Or......well, you get the idea.

one more proof, here
Strom writes a good proof here (one of many that exist) about the dishonesty of liberal leaders.

With this statement, "I used to think that liberals were mistaken, but well-intentioned. Now, I am not so sure.", Strom is being VERY generous, using the phrase, "well-intentioned".

How good are the intentions of an illinois senator (durbin) that says, in time of war, "U.S. military is like hitler gulag...." (durbin is one of many clear examples of the filth at the top of liberalism, NOT "WELL-INTENTIONED".)

Strom's example, here, is either VERY STUPID economics by liberals, or very DISHONEST economics by liberals. Either way, THEY SHOULD NOT BE IN ANY LEADERSHIP POSITIONS. Will this country ever WAKE UP to the garbage they're putting in leadership positions??


Prager today?
Read Prager today? It seems that liberals think conservatives are evil but conservatives think liberals are good people with incorrect conclusions.

OOPS! Quick, clean up this thread.

bucko
if you do a little more research you will find that it was the great conservative ronald reagan who put the mentally ill homeless on the streets to save money.

Is this true Ben?
"Ignoring history is an important part of blaming liberals. So is a complete lack of accountability. There is plenty of blame games bs to go around."

**********************************************

Does this mean that Liberal Democrats are finally going to accept the blame for precipitating the homeless and drug problems that were the result of JFK promoting and signing into law the Community Health Centers Act of 1963 that eliminated federal support and funding of state mental institutions?

No? I didn't think so.

The Dirty Little Secret....

...of the "Liberal(?) Progre$$ive Democrat Party is that C. Montgomery Burns, metaphorically speaking, is really a Democrat.

yep liberals are to blame for everything
first i half to laugh at how many conservatives seem to know how liberals think.
second, i and many others are liberal because of our religious faith.

my baptist religion has taught me quite the opposite of what some conservatives seem to believe i.e. that enriching the rich will help the poor.


Liberty

Liberty writes: Tuesday, February, 13, 2007 4:45 AM

========================

Thanks for the links- I wll check them out tonight.

Waste of time

Oh yada yada yada..

Same message different day. It is like a broken record. Liberals this, liberals that, liberal liberal, liberal, …

Ignoring history is an important part of blaming liberals. So is a complete lack of accountability. There is plenty of blame games bs to go around.

But now, we turn to the completely ignorant views that liberals only want power and money. Geez, just how, well, stupid really. Not that this cannot be tossed to any and all politicians- it can. They are the most driven among us. They are all working up the ladder. To say this one wants power, and not recognize that in all of them is – oh- biased.

Mr.Strom- this article was a complete waste of time.

tax cuts for the rich
Nothing in the article proves that the
capital gains tax cuts are what is
spurring an increase in tax revenues.

In as complex an economy as ours to
attribute an increase in tax revenues
to one cause is poor reasoning.

Now let's get down to my wealth redistribution plan:
1) a flat tax for those making over $100,000
and couples making over $200,000. All others
pay no taxes. I would suggest starting with
40% and reducing it over time when the budget
deficit is $0.
2) Estate tax / Death tax
I would raise this to 90% after money is
given to direct relatives (no tax for each
direct relative up to 50 x median income).
We can make an exception for family businesses
and farms too. But let's tax the dead not
the living. By the way, I guarantee no
one rightfully taxed will ever complain
after it happens. You can mark my word!

Sandman
Why Sandman, you surprise me. I was being satirical. But any honest consideration will conclude that TH articles are often telling us what liberals are like. The types I listed are common themes, all of which are flawed. Liberals often persist in the same behavior when listing conservative flaws. I think it would be refreshing if someone took a more realistic view of the situation on both sides. Otherwise, let’s all just paint them with horns and tails and leave it at that.

To Lon
You are about as bad as the Kimbat. Republicans invented deficit spending?? Deficit spending in peacetime started with that great hero of the socialists, Franklin Roosevelt. The Democrat Party throughout history has been the party of tax and spend AND would have continued in that vein if the Republicans had not taken over congress under Bill Klinton, During the last congress it is true that they also became big spenders. It is NOT true that deficits we have now are due to tax cuts. If you can read and recognize numbers you should have seen many times that revenues are up greatly. The problem is that spending on pork is also up greatly.

As to the “poor” doing better under Klinton than under Bush you have absolutely NO proof of that whatsoever. All you have is the standard Demo talking point about rich getting richer, gap rich and poor, et al. That mess has been debunked more times than AGW.

Lon
Perhaps the "poor" did better during the Clinton administration because the Republicans pushed welfare reform and got people off the couch and into the marketplace.
If there are more people today in poverty I would say that it is not because of tax cuts. Here are some other possible explainations:
* Total ignorance of how to budget family income
* The promotion of buying on credit and people's inability to say no to any purchase because "they want it"
* Increase in divorce rates
* Parents foolishly spending precious family income on anything little Bobby or Susie wants because they are trying to be their friend and not their parent

I say thank God for tax cuts!!! As a one-income family in the middle tax bracket, tax cuts are going to help pay for braces for 2 of our kids this year!!!!

Liberal = socialist
It would have been better for Mr. Strom to go ahead and say socialist since that was what he was talking about in this column. Calling the tax and spend democrats liberals just confuses the issue if you are talking about monetary policy.

Also, it’s not just Democrats who have bought into this socialist utopia dream. Some Republicans also drink of this hemlock.


Take Back Governmt
You are so right!!

Liberals use Psychological Projection...
quite well. They are masters at it and use it to frame the debate. Conservatives are only masters at framing the language of the debate to counteract the psychological projection ofthe Democrats. For example, Libs say Conservatives are "selfish, mean-spirited, closed-minded, only for the rich, and against free speech." Those qualities are all quite prevalent among Liberals. We now have scientific proof that Conservatives give to charities much more than Liberals. As for mean-spiritedness, when was the last time Conservatives accused Bill Clinton of being a Nazi, or Hitler, or worse than the terrorists? Liberals have been completely consumed and swept away in their unquenchable hatred for Bush even to the point of supporting America's enemies in the name of hurting Bush politically. Teddy Kennedy, John Kerry, Chafee the RINO, and Rockefeller are all trust fund welfare kids or hubbies living and spending daddy's or the wife's trust fund money like drunken sailors. John Edwards made 12 million dollars in one of his many ambulance-chasing episodes; he used that 12 million to run for the Presidency. Nancy Pelosi was a former lawyer like Hillary and Bill living the good life from day one. Most Democrats have never worked a day in the private sector in their entire lives. Liberals are always the ones who are having protests on college campuses and not allowing Conservative speakers to give speeches. They are the ones who instigate fights and throw pies, tomatoes, and whatnot at Ann Coulter and Jim Gilchrist and many others with whom they disagree. When was the last time you saw Conservatives throwing pies or yelling down at Cindy Sheehan preventing her from speaking on college campuses??? What is all this? It's a common psychological technique known as psychological projection. Call your enemies everythingthat is wrong with yourself. That way you never have to defend yourself and you make your enemy defend himself. THE DUMB GOP always takes the bait. Until the GOP learns to frame the debate, they will always be reacting to the DEMS. THE GOP NEVER ATTACKS AND REMAINS ON OFFENSE; everything is reaction tothe DEMS, thus allowingthe DEMS to control the topic of debate. THIS IS STUPID!!!!!!!

There are no Statesmen
Wouldn't it be greaat if we could clean House, as it were, on Congress?

Wait a minute, we can ! Every two years ! Why don't we ??!?!?!?

Because too many Americans believe in entitlements. My Conressman brought $100 million dollars to my local community to "improve" schools. Two years later, less young people can pass the SOLs than from before the monetary imporvement.

And your Congress-person will promise to get you more benefits, more of everything you want, and so you re-elect them.

What we need is to vote for whoever runs against the imcumbent, no mater their political party. This would send a clear message to Congress. But we won't, will we?

We are too self-serving, self-centered and greedy, just like the Politicians.

WRTO Capital Gains Tax Cuts
Mr Strom Writes:
"Lowering the capital gains rate stimulates economic growth, and by extension increases tax revenue for the government. Capital gains tax collections go up as economic activity grows, and of course income taxes rise as incomes get bigger."

Was there not a wide variety of different tax cuts put through by the Bush Administration? It's nice and compact to say that cutting the tax rate on capital gains caused the increase in capital gains tax collections, but might it not be the case that some other tax or economic policy was what actually produced the gain?

liberalgoodman
I assume, as a working premise, that all politicians are corrupt. While I know that is not literally the case, I believe it is in the public's interest to assume so. Knowing that, in spite of the fact that they ALL swear to be looking out for my best interests, too many politicians cannot be trusted to act in the public interest. It only stands to reason then that the public's best defense against the scalawags is to limit the amount of power they are able to wield.

Government is not bad in theory - only in practice. The best defense against bad government, whether you are a conservative or a liberal, is to limit the amount of control the government is able to exercise over the people.

Conservatives and liberals love nothing better than to decry the tyrannical conduct of the opposition when they themselves are out of power. But far too often, the people who turned out into the streets to protest some alleged abuse of power by the opposition, will shrug and excuse the excesses of their own party, when it suits their purposes.

In the days when the federal government possessed less power, and consequently concerned itself with a more limited agenda of governance, there was less reason to be anxietous over the activities in Washington. In those days regardless of which party was in power, there was only so much that could happen to you, even under the worst-case scenarios.

Those days of course are long gone. The federal government not only possesses considerably more power than it had previously, but it stands ready to wield it for whatever purposes the people who happen to be wielding it see fit. This very dangerous winner-take-all attitude benefits none of us in the long run. When the other party is in power, you feel oppressed; when your party is in control, the best you can say is you're glad the crocodile is eating someone else today.


Handy
I'm with ya there, dude. Who says history can't repeat itself? ;)

sorry, 4got the link
found in more than just the tax policy
I think that the greed issue is found in more than just the tax policy. Democrats have also hidden behind causes (homosexuality, abortion, I hate to put this in the same context, but; rights for underprivileged such as people with disabilities, and various minority groups) to elevate themselves. I think it's offensive that they use these "causes" to hide their real identity. I guess I think it goes deeper; I think they really know of these things, and believe that they are quite clever to use such causes as their disguise.

See my blog post "Democratic Coffers. . . " here:

http://www.geocities.com/thechristianheartbeat/welcome.html

Click on Heart 2 Heart.


found in more than just the tax policy
I think that the greed issue is found in more than just the tax policy. Democrats have also hidden behind causes (homosexuality, abortion, I hate to put this in the same context, but; rights for underprivileged such as people with disabilities, and various minority groups) to elevate themselves. I think it's offensive that they use these "causes" to hide their real identity. I guess I think it goes deeper; I think they really know of these things, and believe that they are quite clever to use such causes as their disguise.

See my blog post "Democratic Coffers. . . " here:



Click on Heart 2 Heart.

corrupt to some degree?
liberalgoodman (oxymoron if I ever read one), you say "the purpose of the column was to make the case that liberals are corrupt, which they certainly are to some degree,"

Let me ask you this. The bedrock of socialism is theft. Theft is morally wrong in most cultures and has always historically been so.

With theft as one's bedrock position from which all other ideas, ideals, or goals are supported, how then can you make the ridiculous claim that liberals are corrupt "to some degree"?

If you are a liberal/socialist you're corrupt to the core, end of story.

I am amused when corrupts such as yourself bring up Delay, Hastert, et al, as if we are all supposed to forget LBJ, Billary Clinton, Jordon of Jimmy Carter's administration, Stubbs, Barney Frank, Gus Savage, oh Lord the list doth go on! And let's not forget the ultimates, Woodrow Wilson (federal reserve) and FDR (fraud, policies deliberately deepening the depression, attempted court stacking, etc.)

SandMan writes
"Nice tactic, though transparent to anyone except a liberal, maybe. The subject: The deception that is otherwise known as static revenue forecasting. Your responses: Change the subject, and start talking about gay-bashing and Republican incompetence." --

The purpose of this column was to make the case that liberals are corrupt, which they certainly are to some degree. But after what we've seen from Republicans, it's hard for TH to make this a reason not to vote for Democrats.


Liberalism vs. Conservatism
I'm confused, I've always heard that Liberals want to take everyone's money and make us one big welfare state, tax and spend spend and tax is all I ever heard about Liberal's, not about being greedy or out for power?

Lon
I was trying to find out if there was sarcasm in your initial post or not. Thank you for answering my question.

I think you missed the point re: capital gains cuts. Leading up to those cuts, no matter where one looked on the Left - the NYTimes, Charles Schumer, Hillary, WashPo - you heard how these tax cuts for the rich were going to make the deficit worse, they were going to enrich the few on the backs of the many.

What happened instead was not only a shift in the tac burden onto the wealthy beneficiaries, but also an overall INCREASE in tax revenues.

THAT was the point of the discussion.

Liberalism-money and power
There was a time, not so long ago (albeit several decades and longer) that the very word politician was cause for great consternation. Having remembered that, I clearly recall the first time I was made aware of an aspiration of dedication i n America's youth was to "take up politics", to "be a poitician".
Want to know what's wrong in the running of America? That's it!
I have very little doubt that original members of the House of Representatives and the Senate in the United States of America,did not intend to be, dependent upon their positions as Statesmen. Not for their fortunes, much less their very identies.
Statesmen would, by the original pattern have been asked, then nominated, then elected, then would have gone to the Nation's Capital and served. They would have done so with the full intent and understanding that they would serve, then go home.
None of that should have changed, except to note that now Stateswomen should also live by that precept.
I don't know when the first "politician" manifested. That "lifer" who first decided to live in the Capital for the rest of his days, and "run" things.
I know there have been anomolies, contradictions if you will of the very word Statesman. Consider those environmentalists who logged off the last stands of virgin Ponderosa pines in a newly established National Forest, for the financial gain of their "supporters". Do remember our most famous "bridge runnere" who admited to "cutting and running" at the cost of a young womans life?
Maybe land development in Las Vegas rings a bell.
Yet as they "politic" on, in perpetuity, we continue to honor them, to re-elect them. Those who brag about not being of the ilk to "stand by their man", without bothering to say the obvious "unless there is something in it for me".
"Sticking it out", for them, is all about potential benefit, not honor or pride.
What's wrong in Washington DC can't be assigned to liberal of conservative aspirations.
No, it can only be assigned to a total misapplication of gratitude.
I see none of those in office in the House or in the Senate standing up and saying "STOP, lets just provide the service we promised to provide for those who trust us to do so, and then go home".
Any Senator who has been in office for more that 6 years, or Representative for over 4:
YOU should know this: YOU ARE A POLITCIAN, and Americans, everywhere, are on to you.
Go Home.

confusion about liberals
Liberals aren't evil or mean. Liberals believe religiously that dependence on a liberal government is good for people. They think the more government - their decision making government - decides and does in our daily lives, the better off we'll be. They're going to protect us from failure. They're going to protect us from corporations. They're going to protect us from the most dangerous enemy in the world - conservatives.

They're just misguided, but liberals have to lie to reach their goals. They can't say that the minimum wage hurts the economy and costs people jobs, even though they think that's a good thing because those people become dependent on their government. They have to lie and say people won't lose jobs, or nobody will vote for them.

Of course, our Republican representatives think the same thing, and they have to lie about supporting smaller government. They're just as bad. Stop the madness.

http://freedomistheanswer.blogspot.com/

FergusMacLennan
I had two points, one for each sentence. The first is that it is not surprising that when one pursues a policy that works to the advantage of a small segment of society that that segment winds up paying more taxes. Should we be shocked that the increasing number of families living in poverty are not contributing as much to the tax burden.

The other was just to express my amusement at the idea that supply side economics, as it has been implemented during both the Reagan and Bush years shows anything but the way to which supply side economics produces deficits. Conservatives have come up with this great gimmick where they claim the advantages of deficit spending (wow did you know that if you artificial pump money into the economy through deficit spending it produces revenues) and then subtract out the part they don't like as if it has no consequences. Of course all of that additional spending was money that was deposited in Narnia, none of it was used to pay salaries, to create demand for goods that require jobs to meet it, etc,). It is a lot like the woman who always weighs herself with her cat, and when the scale reading goes up she puts the cat on a diet.

So Republican politicians who have the sense to not actually try to accompany their tax cuts to the rich with actual spending restraints, then actually have the nerve to say that they are basing their claims about what would happen if they did what they would never do, as relying on reality.

I thought I captured those two ideas pretty well with my two sentences above.

On a side note, I don't know many on the left who believe that economics is a zero sum game. After the progressive tax shift early in the Clinton administration, poverty rates declines, but the wealthy did quite well. Demand side economics does well both for the people who can demand more, and for the people who make money by meeting that demand. The return to supply side economics has been accompanied by an increase in poverty along with good times for the wealthy. That is not a description of a zero sum game. The success of the poor and the middle class under Clinton did not come at the expense of the wealthy.

Wassa matta, you?
"I still believe that most liberals I meet are genuinely good people, not nefarious plotters out to line their own pockets and accumulate as much power as humanly possible."

Wassa matta, you? Ain't you ever read "Animal Farm"?

Also, liberals NEVER give up. If a liberal idea fails, it's never the idea that can't work; it's always the failure to implement it properly, at best, OR it was scuttled by conservatives.

Dems just being Dems...
Regardless of the facts, the Dems "feel" that they can run the country better than the mean old free market. All those greedy corporations that are only concerned about profits, whereas the Dems are solely concerned about my well-being. How wonderful!

The fact that socialist healthcare has been a failure almost everywhere in the world, doesn't mean that it won't work here. And what do you define as failure? As long as everybody gets equally poor healthcare, isn't that better than only 85% of the population having good medical insurance?

Anyway, all those tax cuts really do is make rich people more rich. They don't actually create jobs or re-invest that money in the economy! They just buy jets and yachts. But our liberal leaders like Ted Kennedy and Nancy Pelosi know just how we live because they have median incomes and median wealth just like us. They can "feel" our pains and concerns because they come from similar backgrounds of average means. None of them have been born with a silver spoon!

Liberals
Being a liberal is never having to say your sorry. You would think that after being wrong on every major issue for the last 40 years they would just shut up.

MikeR, Liberalgoodman --
Nice tactic, though transparent to anyone except a liberal, maybe. The subject: The deception that is otherwise known as static revenue forecasting. Your responses: Change the subject, and start talking about gay-bashing and Republican incompetence.

Since you are not very good at perpetrating a deception, I will assume that you are a member of the "deluded leftist fanatic" wing of the Democratic Party that Strom speaks of. you need to work on your game; otherwise you are letting your Komrades down.

Liberalism is
about money and power, all right. Ever notice how it's always your money going to fund their power?

Can anyone name a Dem candidate for
Pres. in 2008 who does NOT "promote the false belief that the economy is a zero-sum game of the “people vs. the powerful” because it benefits them[?]" I agree with Mr. Strom that "The false notion that some cabal of wealthy people is raping the American working man helps liberals gain and keep economic and political power."

Also, that "Liberals aren’t well-intentioned but mistaken; they are cynically promoting falsehoods in order to gain money and power." Unfortunately, there are too many Republicans also promoting some of the 'cradle to grave entitlement' mentality in order to buy votes, rather than having integrity and standing firm for the basic principles on which this Nation was founded, such as self-reliance and the best government being that which interferes the least with peoples' lives.

Lon
What exactly is your point?

Good news
Its funny that cutting capital gains taxes would increase the percentage of taxes that the rich play when, as noted above, the benefits from the capital gains taxes made everyone better off. Now the only question is how we should spend those Reagan and Bush surpluses that have followed from these cuts.

WELL, DUH!
Seriously, you have the true believers who feel they're really helping. The true believers don't care about results, cost, or whether the policies they demand do more harm than good. They only care about feeling good about themselves. They're better than us because they "really care." Everything is relative and facts don't matter.

It's the puppet masters who want more power who keep perpetuating the myths, distortions and lies. Anybody can look at the facts and determine that cutting tax rates actually raises the taxes collected. But the demagogues and the MSM keep the true believers inflamed by repeating rhetoric while obscuring the facts.

Three Choices
Radical Liberals and all Liberal politicians:

1. Lie.

2. Are incredibly stupid.

3. All of the above.

Gee
I always thought liberalism was really about making everyone gay and force them to have abortions. Then Ann Coulter taught me that liberalism was really about overthrowing the government and turning us into commies or at least a fundamentalist Moslem nation. Now I find out it’s really a profit deal. Gee, I got to get me some of that liberalism. It sounds like more fun than working.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.