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Sunday, April 26, 2009
David R. Stokes :: Townhall.com Columnist
Nice Try - But It's Not Enough
by David R. Stokes
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Though the story about Miss California, Carrie Prejean, and her loss of the Miss USA title because of her honest, frank, and widely shared opinion in answer to Perez Hilton’s loaded question has been covered ad nauseam, I will venture an observation or two.

Because I am not part of the demographic making up the usual audience for beauty pageants or the CBS Evening News with Katie Couric, I was spared the early wave of media-frenzy about the whole megilla.   As I sat at a diner near our home last Monday morning, I tried to read the already-touched-by-a-hundred-hands copy of the only newspaper lying around – USA Today.  In between bites of food, and while dodging objects thrown by my grandson, I came across an interesting opinion piece by Jonathan Merritt. 

It was entitled, “An Evangelical’s Plea: ‘Love the Sinner.’” Merritt is a 26-year-old graduate of Liberty University, the school founded by the late Jerry Falwell.  His essay was thoughtful and thought provoking. 

A short while after reading Jonathan’s missive, I saw a news report about what had happened the night before in Las Vegas – that city’s slogan apparently being incorrect.  Watching a replay of Hilton’s question and Prejean’s answer, I experienced mixed emotions.  I was very moved and proud of Miss California’s poise and presence of mind as she shared her personal conviction on the issue of marriage being something between (such a radical!) a man and a woman.  You could almost see in her eyes that she grasped the significance of that moment and sensed her hopes for the coveted crown slipping away. 

Another emotion moved me as well, but not with warm and fuzzy feelings of pride and sympathy.  I got angry. Mario Armando Lavandeira Jr., a.k.a. “Perez Hilton,” turned my stomach.  His behavior was rude and his epithets offensive. 

I thought again about what Jonathan Merritt had written.  The gist of his article was that too often those of us who stand for traditional values express ourselves as angry and mean.   I confess that this has sadly and too often been the case, with zeal for “righteousness” occasionally and unfortunately trumping the greatest commandments.

Point taken.  He is right, at least partially so.  The “God hates Fags” stuff that some on the lunatic fringe promote, as well as the comparatively benign mockery that sometimes goes on in the evangelical mainstream (jokes, sarcasm, snide remarks), fall humiliatingly short of the compassionate example of Jesus.  It is very true that Jesus had nothing but tender compassion to those struggling with moral issues, while reserving his ire for the religious “purists” of his day.

This is something that many who profess the Christian faith and express it through conservative values should take to heart.  Jesus loved people – especially broken people, sinners, if you will. 

But while many – especially younger – evangelicals are busy building bridges of love, sincerely reaching out to people often alienated by conservative Christians, they had better think things completely through.  Not the reaching out part - that’s of course what real ministry is all about.  I am talking about reflecting on how far one can lean toward “political correctness” before watering down the authentic message to the point where it becomes unrecognizable and therefore ineffectual.

Jesus told a story about the perils of building a house on shifting sand.  Presumably the same caveat would apply to the building of a bridge.

Merritt wrote: “If Christians’ language were marked by these characteristics – humility, kindness, and grace – it would ease tensions and open up avenues for dialogue. It’s time for evangelical Christians to reform our rhetoric.” 

Well, he has a valid point with the first part – all of us could use more “niceness.”  But he is, I fear, being at least a wee bit naïve when he suggests that “kinder-gentler” evangelicalism will really open “avenues for dialogue.”  Not as long as the Perez Hilton’s of the world spew their venom with mainstream media impunity. 

Sure there are so-called and self-styled “Christians” who turn hate into an art form.  Real followers of Jesus repudiate that stuff all the time, though the media often portrays the ugly caricature as the norm.  But there is no real attempt on the part of those who support same-sex marriage and the like to marginalize people like the notorious foul-mouthed blogger. 

In fact, he’s a celebrity judge at a major pageant!  I am tempted to suggest that Donald Trump, purveyor of the Miss USA Pageant, may be morphing the once respectable event into a freak show, but I won’t because I want to be “nice.”

In my opinion, many younger evangelicals like Jonathan Merritt, have determined to distance themselves from the “religious right-ism” of their parents’ generation, in much the same way as the children of the baby-boom rejected many of the ways of their “World War II” generation parents.  I have talked to many of them.  They have not abandoned the Bible or the faith; they just don’t want the main message to be about abortion and traditional moral values.  In fact, these younger evangelicals remain themselves largely pro-life and believe in heterosexual marriage and Biblical mores.

They just really, really believe they can practice their faith – even share it in love – while avoiding coming across as intolerant and shrill.  The idea is that they will reach others by not yelling at them. 

What needs to be noted though is that in order to actually reach a person with the gospel, the acknowledgement of sin is essential.  So is repentance.  Confession comes from a Greek word meaning, “to agree with,” in this case agreeing with God. The Bible term repentance means, “to change the mind.” 

Both concepts are essential components of Christian witness.  They require sin to be called sin and then to be turned from.  How Jesus dealt with the adulterous woman in John chapter eight is case in point.  He told her, after the condemnatory accusers had slithered away, “Neither do I condemn you.”  But he didn’t stop there – and nor should evangelicals.  He followed with: “Go and sin no more.”

Sin was still sin.  And it is very important for some idealist evangelicals to understand that people today who celebrate and glorify behaviors that are clearly labeled in the Bible as sinful, will never really take advantage of “avenues of dialogue” until and unless evangelicals are willing to concede that the Bible doesn’t say what it means and mean what it says. 

Niceness is a nice try, but the punch – “sin must be acknowledged before grace can flow” – must eventually be thrown.  Build all the bridges you want; “they” will never use them.

In fact, “they” will usually blow them up.

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About The Author
David R. Stokes is a minister, writer, and broadcaster. His weekly talks at Fair Oaks Church in Fairfax, Virginia and host of Loud on Purpose, heard Monday to Friday in Washington, D.C. on WAVA 105.1 fm.
 
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Don't Write "Em Off
Don't write off the "under-35s" I agree that people tend to be, politically, more like their predecessors as they age..I believe they will "come around".
As to the "Lifestyle" thing:Robert-AZ- I basically see it Ur way.. A VERY GOOD Friend is Gay.I worked with him for years and and he must really LOVE his "Partner" because *He* is ugly!! BIG TIME UGLY!! We have broached the Subject, but he's discreet and I can live with it..I WILL NOT BE GOING TO ANY WEDDING!!

The concept of grace...
Creates a lot of problems. It is difficult to understand and come to grips with the notion that you can be redeemed and saved by grace and not by acts. We are all sinners and fall short. Non-believers are only too happy to point this out as if it is a point of hypocrisy. As Mr Stokes noted, it is also difficult for dogmatic purists and those who look at religion as simply the mechanism for promoting good and decent behavior here on earth to accept that those with good behavior are not loved anymore than those with bad behavior. I know it has always been a challenge for me. And I am a believer, but I don't consider myself either dogmatic nor purist. After 6 kids, I am more humble than ever, and realize I need more help than I like to admit.

Conservative
The Conservative movement will not stand if it is not unified, and it will not be unified if it allows it to be divided by definitions. If one is a conservative, he is conservative on social, fiscal, and Constitutional issues; otherwise he is not conservative.
I do not look forward to the destruction of the country through ignorance of the Constitution and its purpose to prohibit the Federal government from usurpation of state and individual rights. The Constitution, whether one wants to admit it or not, is based on the Christian principle of free agency. God made us free. Man (with Satan's help) is always trying to take that away from us. But the freedom that God gave us is to be free to live and benefit from His law, not to enslave us to Satan's perversions. If we do not seek to live God's laws, we will lose our freedom. Those who do not recognize God as the giver of our laws have already lost their freedom, whether they recognize it or not.
God did not give us law because He hates us. He gave us law because we are his children and he loves us, just as we try to protect our own children by giving them rules to follow that will keep them safe. When they break our reasonable rules, they lose their freedom in some way. When we break our Heavenly Father's laws, we also lose our freedom. For example, those who practice homosexuality lose the ability to have a family, and those who practice adultry lose the respect of their family when it is found out. One cannot be wicked and happy at the same time.

Scurvy
"...which only helps the cause. And the country"

And Christianity as well.

Perhaps the less influence Christians have in the country's political, cultural, and societal norms and mores, the more we might actually concentrate on the real issues of Christian living.

For too long many of us thought we were saved to be the best Americans we could possibly be instead of the best Christians we could possibly be.

Personally, I welcome the persecution that is coming. Historically it has had a cleansing effect on the Body of Christ, unfortunately, at the same time, it pronounced judgement on the surrounding cultures.

Robert
"Right now, various polls put the number of people identifying themselves as conservative around 37% and the number identifying themselves as liberal at 17-22%. Obviously, the largest group is moderate."

The largest group has always been moderate. You really think the Christian right appeals to that crowd?

Interesting sidenote about self-identification polls; I'm not sure which one you're using, so I can't link you the correct, accompanying issues polling, but it's been found that when you present a self-identity poll - conservative, liberal, moderate - and then follow it up with an actual issues profile poll, conservatives unfailingly drop around 10%. Meaning 10% of the people who self-identify as conservatives think they are, but the way they actually feel about issues puts them squarely in moderate or liberal camp.

"Your remark about "fundamental" Christianity is interesting. I assume you mean fundamentalist. Conservative and moderate Christianity, which disapproves of gay marriage, is the growing group of Christians. The declining group is the mainline Protestants, which are generally very soft on gay marriage."

That's true, mainline Protestants are declining - but they were also the biggest demo inside Christianity in the first place, so there's a while to go before it's noticeable. Plus, Christianity as a whole is declining as well, which only helps the cause. And the country.

Nice only goes so far
James 4;
4You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

Then their is Jude;
23snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

The thing I am seeing a lot of is a posting that goes along the lines "I am a Christian and think gay marriage is ok and apologize for these other Christians behavior/words/disagreement/vote .....

And It is apparent to me that many stalwart denominations have fallen by the wayside trying to be so "nice" that they accommodate anything that walks through the door.

Gestell says:
"...Since I prefer my ideological enemies ..."

and:

"I know my side faces plenty of intransigent opposition."

How much you wanna bet he doesn't see the irony here.

no surprise here
"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." Jesus Christ in Matt. 5:11-12

Why should we be surprised at the bile and venom for taking a stand for what's right, and truly caring for people, rather than celebrating a destructive lifestyle? True, many who call themselves Christian have not acted compassionately, but why let the left define the term? Compassion isn't cheering while the Titanic sinks or letting the inmates run the asylum. Compassion is trying to convince as many as you can that there's a better way.

I've only scratched the surface here, but there is and has been a concerted effort to conceal the full truth about the homosexual lifestyle. Anyone who's given blood can verify that they still have the 'sex with men' question in the pre-screening portion. There's way more than that, but talk to people who are willing to be honest in the medical profession if you'd like to know more. Learn from those who have left that lifestyle to get a different perspective. Christians must "speak the truth in love", but don't emphasize one part of that statement to the exclusion of the other. It is loving to speak, and we must speak lovingly.

polls
"I don't get that worked up about it because I can read polls. Each and every one taken on the issue shows that social conservatives have completely lost the under 35 generation. Completely. It's as bad as 75% against in some states."

So? It's not going to change the way I live or what I believe.

Like someone else, said, God does not read polls, and I think He is not about to start.

You can pass as many laws as you like about as many things as you want.

I think that what terrifies "secular progressives" is that they can do things like pass laws outlawing prayer in various places. But they can never know when we are praying even then. We can do it silently. They can look at us and never know and it scares them. Join us and you don't have to be scared any more.


Gestell
" It is ultimately as filled with hatred as Rev. Phelps' placards, but it's so much more polite. " I know hundreds of Christians who believe homosexual behavior is wrong. I know hundreds who don't. I don't know one who is filled with hatred. Since you are obviously out of touch with the actual reality of what Christians believe, why should your post have any credibility whatsoever? You're betraying a real mental disease, however-- Christophobia.

Keeping the faith
Rev. Stokes does an admirable job of undercutting needlessly conciliatory Christians and reminding them of the intolerance that is rightfully theirs. He triangulates a little too much for my taste, trying artfully to position himself to the left of the crude religious Right, and to the right of the religous Left--such as the young Christian writer whose work he discusses.

The Christian position on gays is unequivocal--no tolerance, no acceptance, no concessions. Rev. Stokes states this position without visible rancor and so it might pass without being clearly recognized by some TH readers. Nonetheless, it is the true Christian message as conservative Christians understand that message. It is ultimately as filled with hatred as Rev. Phelps' placards, but it's so much more polite.

Since I prefer my ideological enemies to be clear about their own values, I tip my hat to Rev. Stokes. With religious conservatives like him, I know my side faces plenty of intransigent opposition.

Scurvey
I'm sure about the politics of the children generally following that of their parents, but the study is about ten years old. The greater numbers of conservatives having children is also old, from the Pew polls. Also, the larger families among Catholics and evangelicals aren't very favorable for liberals, either. Only the illegal aliens hold any hope for real growth for the left.
I'm of the generation that came of age in the sixties, and much was made at the time as to how liberal that generation was. Now we're in our sixties, and we are predominantly conservative. However, in 1972 the great majority of our age group voted for George McGovern.
Right now, various polls put the number of people identifying themselves as conservative around 37% and the number identifying themselves as liberal at 17-22%. Obviously, the largest group is moderate.
Your remark about "fundamental" Christianity is interesting. I assume you mean fundamentalist. Conservative and moderate Christianity, which disapproves of gay marriage, is the growing group of Christians. The declining group is the mainline Protestants, which are generally very soft on gay marriage.
Sad for your side, but someday you may say, they don't make the future like they used to.

Robert
"And don't forget, the politics of the children eventually tend to follow the politics of the parents, and conservatives have more children."

Really? Even at 25+ levels? That doesn't sound right, but if you've got the data, I'd love to see it.

The hope that the under-35 crowd will suddenly swing conservative is pretty amusing, but even more unlikely. There will be differences on fiscal policy and on foreign policy, but as David Frum pointed out a couple months ago, this generation has reached a whole new consensus on social issues that largely ignores what the old folks before us decided.

Look, even taking into account longer life expectancy, it's still extremely bleak for you socons. Nate Silver did a pretty interesting analysis of the demographic trends over at FiveThirtyEight, and came to the conclusion that the last state to hold a majority capable of voting down gay marriage will be Mississipi, and the last year it'll be capable of doing so is 2024. Only ten states with a majority populace in favor of banning gay marriage will exist by 2016.

That doesn't mean that gay marriage will become law in the other 40 by 2016, but it's hard to imagine that you guys could possibly win this one without some sort of mass conversion to fundamental Christianity happening across the country. Use as much anecdotal evidence about your kids' friends as you want - incidentally, when I was 20, if my buddy's mom was a rabid fundy and she asked me about gays, I probably would've told her exactly what she wanted to hear, too - there's simply not a lot of argument to be made against cold, hard data.

Bearing a cross
David Stokes is right. I really cannot add anything to what he wrote except that Miss Prejean is to commended for willingly bearing the cross of being persecuted because she declared, in an unfriendly venue, her conviction that what God has declared is true.

balmyweather
And don't forget, the politics of the children eventually tend to follow the politics of the parents, and conservatives have more children.

Couldn't agree more with Robert,
Reply #9: "Don't count on the under 30 population to stay stupid and naive. Most of them are mugged by reality and become much more conservative as years go by."

One reality mugging might be a teenage son coming home from school one day, after a gay sex education class, saying "I think I'm gay, Mom."

Older people tend to conservatism, older people tend to vote, and folks are living longer. Ergo, the future does not look too bright for liberals.

Mr. Stokes
The real tragedy of this incident is that here we have an actual case of institutional persecution of an American Christian simply because of her faith, and those in positions to do and say something about it, did and said nothing, allowing it to proceed without consequence.

And that at the hands of a sexual deviant.

Dangerous precedent.

"Nice try", is right.
"They just really, really believe they can practice their faith – even share it in love – while avoiding coming across as intolerant and shrill. The idea is that they will reach others by not yelling at them."
____________________________________________

As long as they avoid putting the cart before the horse, I might agree.

But in too many cases where I have met such Evangelicals, their message gets lost in their zeal to be accomodating to others' sensibilities and they are perceived as being weak and what they believe unattractive, irrelevant, and easily dismissed as subjective and relative.



Acceptance and Celebration
Some posters above have put it well. It is no longer sufficient to tolerate homosexual behavior and gay marriage. Now we must accept it and celebrate it and for some you are not truly on their side unless you engage in the homosexual lifestyle yourself.

Robert from Arizona:

I wish I shared your optimism that aging will bring wisdom to this generation years down the line and they will reject the liberal point of view and lifestyle. But the recent election has made me more pessimistic about that future coming to pass. While an overwhelming majority of young people voted for Obama and do support the gay rights agenda, Obama could not have won without considerable support from older voters. And he has gone full speed ahead on supporting the gay agenda.

If we don't win in 2010 and 2012 I fear we conservatives are looking at many years in exile with traditional values going down the drain. The recent tea parties have given me hope. Now if we can just keep Janet Napolitano from arresting us all as right wing extreme terrorists.

God bless Carrie Prejean.
Carrie was the picture of poise and grace in the face of crude and bitter hatred. Thank you, David, for a very good article. We are living in a time when right is wrong and wrong is right, where political correctness is valued above truth and clarity. Those who spew hate and express themselves in the most vile and base manner possible, accuse those who believe in and practice love, repentance, and forgiveness as haters. How we as Christians present the Gospel is important. We are not the Judge; He is. But we have been commissioned to bring the consequences of sin to light (death) and offer the alternative (Life). Indeed, Jesus loves broken people because we are all broken in some way. Miss Prejean seems to understand this. By the way, Scurvy, God does not care a whit about polls, surveys, opinions, or who wins or loses. He sees the big picture and knows how it all comes out in the end—as do those who love Him.

DanNV
I don't even know which side of the question you are on, and I agree with you 100%. Why do people think that name calling and hate accusations will do anything except harden people in their resolve for whichever side they are on? It's a mystery.

Unforgiving Me
Sorry, I used to try to meet those who held opposite views in the middle, believing my extention of compromise and understanding would be met with equal effort. The only thing I realized from my effort was that my oppositon took immediate advantage of what they perceived as weakness.

It is not appropriate to drag your opposition kicking and screaming across the line to your side but until or unless they move to the middle first, don't go there, you will be thoroughly trashed for you effort. Fool me once the saying goes.

Scurvy
If this is so then why did it fail by such a great margin in, of all states, California?

When I Was Young and Stupid
. . . I believed lots of things I don't believe now. I was in favor of legalizing homosexual behavior, because everyone assured me that it wouldn't lead to gay marriage or creation of a protected class. I believed in socialism till my father gave me a birthday present of a trip to the Soviet Union and East Germany. I believed a lot of stupid things.
Don't count on the under 30 population to stay stupid and naive. Most of them are mugged by reality and become much more conservative as years go by. Unless, of course, they become college professors in the humanities.

Scurvy
Do you know that scurvy is sickness form lack of vitamin C? The "vitamin" for normal people is a belief in the most powerful vitamin available to mankind, GOD! Perhaps, if you would accept a little dose of it into your mind, you could think a little more clearly. I know through my children and their friends, how they REALLY feel about homosexuality. They are disgusted by it. That is a natural reaction against unnatural behavior, and that will never change. Legislation that pushes for the acceptance of abnormal behavior frightens more and more people into false compliance. But do you know the backlash that comes from suppressed feelings? Do you know how people react when they are "pushed into a corner"? This push to change the traditional definition of marriage may become the "straw that broke the camel's back". If I were you, I would not "count my chickens before they hatch"!
I bet you believe in "global warming" too, even though the Weather Channel cannot predict the weather from one day to the next!

WHY GAY MEN JUDGING MISS AMERICA?
The fact that Gay men think they are capable of judging in such a contest itself it laughable.

Who in the world selected Pervert Hilton to judge what is supposed to be the most revered Beauty Pageant in the world?

Another stupid "I am always right and you are always wrong" gay person of course!

It is not the lifestyle that bothers me--it is the unmitigated arrogance that they think we should all accept thier values as indisputable.

I am beginning to become anti-gay. If Perez Hilton is representative of the Gay Community--SCREW THEM ALL.

ROWDY BOOTS

No pagan society that knew
of homosexualtiy and had no moral proscription against it ever created homosexual marriage.

And none do today. They are not attacked and hated, but Christianity which gave the West its principles of the individual libtery is savaged 24/7.

I would truly like to know the answers
My own personal view is that I think homosexuality is wrong - but I'm not doing it.

If you are doing it and you are my friend, it is part of your makeup - if I want to be your friend, I will accept that about you.

To me: bottom line is don't do it on my table or even in my home and I could really care less WHAT you do. YOU have to live with YOU, not me.

BUT, here's where it gets sticky: YOU don't think that is good enough any more. YOU want ME to 'celebrate' what you do (hopefully in the privacy of your own home.) And, I can't go that far. I see no reason to 'celebrate' what, to me, is wrong. I can 'accept' - but not 'celebrate.' And that's where I get all kinds of flak.

Do I think letting some members of our country join together and call it something that has meant ONLY ONE THING THROUGHOUT HISTORY - NO!

Do I think those members of our country CAN join together and become SOMETHING ELSE in the joining - YES!

Just not "Married."

jaybird
"He's obviously one of those disgusting homosexuals who ran around vandalizing churches and making death threats to people after the citizens of California refused to let them "marry" other sodomites."

I think you just made young evangelicals' point for them.

I'm straight, non-religious, and in favor of gay marriage. I don't get that worked up about it because I can read polls. Each and every one taken on the issue shows that social conservatives have completely lost the under 35 generation. Completely. It's as bad as 75% against in some states when it comes to 'defending traditional marriage'.

Your side ran the DOMA-like state constitution amendments through where they could while they could, which was smart, but by 2024 there's not going to be a state in the union left where the majority of the populace is against gay marriage. My generation thinks you guys are complete whackjobs - not just on this, mind you - and even the evangelicals of my generation are essentially retiring the field on this particular issue. You're fighting a holding action, nothing more.

Nice or not
we're still classified as terrorists by Janet Napolitano, aka Obama's big mouthpiece. Nice doesn't enter into it. Did you ever notice that when you disagree, however mildly, with a liberal, they immediately label you a "hater"? Miss Janet has taken this philosophy a step further and now half the country is the enemy.

Don't be a hater, Janet.

No class
Choosing obscene scumbags like this self-styled "Perez Hilton" (is that a play on Paris Hilton?") to judge a beauty contest shows that the organizers of the contest have no class at all.

He's obviously one of those disgusting homosexuals who ran around vandalizing churches and making death threats to people after the citizens of California refused to let them "marry" other sodomites.

The right sequence.

The Bible does indeed teach us that we are to love the sinner... but hate the sin.

It also teaches us that grace comes before truth, or there will simply be no bridge to someone else.

But after grace... there DOES come truth.

Because grace without truth is unworkable.
As truth without grace is intolerable.

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