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Sunday, June 29, 2008
David R. Stokes :: Townhall.com Columnist
Carter, Obama, and the Evangelicals
by David R. Stokes
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Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


As Barack Obama coasts to his coronation as the Democratic nominee in late August, he’s managed to convince many that he wears the mantle of Camelot. Toward that end, he’s been chasing Kennedy coattails every bit as much as he has delegates.

Some who are clearly less-than-enamored of Mr. Obama have tried to suggest that his candidacy looks more like George McGovern’s in 1972 than that of Jack Kennedy in 1960, or brother Bobby in 1968. But that argument hasn’t developed much traction. A closer look at current personalities and patterns suggests another comparison, one that may actually be the best political parallel between a past campaign and the current phenomenon.

Could the ascendancy and candidacy of Barack Obama be the second coming of Jimmy Carter? Consider these interesting parallels.

First, Jimmy Carter appeared from nowhere – he was an obscure, though fiercely ambitious, southern governor who, eighteen months before his juggernaut reached full and unstoppable speed, had been hardly noticed and was given little chance of success. But his carefully calculated message wrapped in a resonate promise, “I’ll never lie to you,” had a populist impact that was underestimated by party insiders.

The peanut farmer knocked-out seemingly formidable opponents early on in the primaries the way Joe Louis handled pugilistic foes (c.1939-1941) during the days of his “bum of the month club.” And by the time all hopes were placed on Hubert Humphrey, elder party statesman, to “stop Carter” – it was already too late. The Carter nomination was a virtual done-deal.

Of course, Jimmy Carter didn’t have one single formidable opponent to give him the trouble that Hillary gave Barack. But he bested an impressive field of opponents: George Wallace, Henry “Scoop” Jackson, Morris Udall, Frank Church, Jerry Brown, and Lloyd Bentsen. And for all practical purposes, he wrapped things up by early May 1976, after winning eight of the first ten primaries that season.

This brings out another similarity between then and now. James Earl Carter Jr. was able to approach the selection of a running mate with the kind of deliberate and drawn out drama we are seeing today, as Mr. Obama conducts his dog and pony show (and, of course John McCain is doing the same thing). Long gone seem to be the days when a nominee had little time to think seriously of such things until the smoke-cleared in the wee hours of a morning during a frenetic 24-hour period of political posturing.

In 1976, VP wannabes made their trek to tiny Plains, Georgia with imagery now reminiscent of the journey many of the same movers and shakers made to Camp David a few years later. That occasion was when they were summoned to the mountain by the Georgian guru, as he picked their brains for help while preparing his stinging rebuke to America that became a metaphor for his failed presidency.

You want malaise with that?

But the most powerful similarity between Jimmy’s run in 1976 and Barack’s today can be seen in what’s happening among Christian evangelicals. Mr. Obama is trying, with some success, to convince these voters that he’s sufficiently one of them, glaring evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.

Jimmy Carter, complete with born again professions, received 48% of the evangelical vote in November 1976 doing exactly what Barack Obama is doing today – talking the talk. The problem is that he never actually walked the walk. Front-loaded euphoria about having a person of “I’ve met Jesus and He’s met me” faith in the White House, gave way to pervasive frustration as it became glaringly clear that Carter was not only in way over his head, but that head didn’t really think like an evangelical.

Jimmy Carter had mastered the God-speak VOCABULARY, but he was using a very different DICTIONARY. Barack Obama has discovered that dictionary. It’s now digitalized and part of his campaign.

And younger evangelicals are on the verge of making the same mistake in 2008 that many of their parents did back in 1976.

George W. Bush garnered 77% of the evangelical vote in 2004 on his way to reelection. Do the math. If Obama can approach Carter’s 1976 numbers – or even ten points less than what Carter received then from evangelicals – it could prove to be the margin of victory for him this November.

His strategy is clear – talk selectively about elements of the Biblical message that resonate with everyone (help those hurting and in need – DUH), while ignoring other vital aspects of scripture – things like righteousness and that “minor” matter of individual salvation.

This is exactly the mission of “The Matthew 25 Network” - the new group taking its name from what Jesus said in, well, Matthew chapter 25:

“For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me. I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.” – Matthew 25:35-36 (New International Version)

Certainly, this passage highlights important compassion-driven actions consistent with loving God and our fellow man. But context is always important. And anyone taking time to read the entire chapter will notice that the theme is not a discussion of public policy, then or now, but rather a powerful discourse by Jesus on things like Heaven, Hell, judgment, and his second coming. It also flows from his Olivet Discourse (this would be “The Matthew 24 Network”) – a powerful polemic about the end times, tribulation, and the absolute exclusivity and Lordship of Jesus.

But quoting stuff out of context is commonplace among politicians and spin-doctors.

Why is this kind of thing effective with people who should know better – those who profess to believe the Bible and follow Jesus? Well, the sad fact is that we are dealing with an often underestimated and ignorant illiteracy in many evangelical circles today. As more and more people find theology and doctrine dry and irrelevant, and matters of the soul, eternal life, and moral imperatives not nearly as important as SOCIAL ACTION, the situation is ripe to be exploited by someone with a message that sounds right.

St. Paul put it this way in some of his last written words:

“For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.” – II Timothy 4:3 (New International Version)

That time is now. And a lot of younger evangelicals are not only weak on theology; they also don’t know their history.

A hundred years ago the idea of a SOCIAL GOSPEL was very popular. Inspired by the writings of men such as Walter Rauschenbusch (1861-1918), it emphasized portions of scripture that talked about the need to do things for others (no-brainers). But all of this was at the DELIBERATE and CALCULATED expense of other issues such as PERSONAL MORALITY and SALVATION.

Social actions – good works, if you will – are taught in scripture to be by-products of personal renewal, redemption, and commitment to “the faith once for all delivered to the saints.” They are the fruit, not the root, of faith. And those who bought into those ideas a century ago also learned that this activist emphasis was part of a larger systemic denial of basic truths explicitly taught in the Bible. They sought to “demythologize” the Bible (read: no miracles). By the time these spiritual and political antecedents were done, the book revered by so many as the Word of God had been reduced to a collection of a few benign directives about doing good.

The SOCIAL GOSPEL was no gospel. The gospel, by definition (look it up, I Corinthians 15:1-8), is wrapped around the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (and the Social Gospel fans of old denied that Jesus actually rose again). And, though Barack Obama apparently prefers stuff from Matthew over that “obscure” (his word) book of Romans, Paul’s epistle reminds us that the gospel is essentially about the righteousness of God (Romans 1:16-17).

By the way, Jimmy Carter also told us in 1976 that he believed the Bible, but couldn’t “go along with Paul.” Many evangelicals didn’t catch that until too late. It feels like “déjà vu all over again.”

Social Gospel proponents back then, as well as “The Matthew 25 Movement” types today, willfully ignore the preponderance of Biblical teaching and seek to reduce its message to a few commonly accepted platitudes.

Again, they have a familiar VOCABULARY – but not the right DICTIONARY.

Finally, let me get back to the theme of this piece – the comparison between the Jimmy Carter of 1976 and the Barack Obama of 2008. It’s important to remember what actually happened after that man was swept into the White House with a tidal wave of expectation, complete with the support of evangelicals.

It didn’t take Americans long to figure out that Mr. Carter was an ineffective chief executive. But worse than that, his presidency was regarded as a betrayal by the very Bible-oriented people who trusted him with their votes. The backlash led to the creation of initiatives like the Moral Majority and other manifestations of the so-called Christian Right.

And then Ronald Reagan came to the rescue, after evangelicals woke up and realized that they’d been sold a bill of goods in the guise of faith, hope, and charity.

Evangelicals today, especially younger ones who may be bored, or even disillusioned, with some of an older generation’s political stridency, would do well to step back and take a better look at the subtle political winds swirling around them.

We learned the hard way during the days of the Carter presidency - those who seem to talk the talk don’t always walk the walk.

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About The Author
David R. Stokes is a minister, writer, and broadcaster. His weekly talks at Fair Oaks Church in Fairfax, Virginia and host of Loud on Purpose, heard Monday to Friday in Washington, D.C. on WAVA 105.1 fm.
 
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Time to Hang It Up
An article that includes the names Scoop Jackson, Morris Udall, Frank Church, and Lloyd Bentsen while talking about Jimmy Carter and Jack Kennedy just shows how stuck in the past the author is.

Time to modernize! See if you can't bring your thinking up into the 90's. The world was a very different place in 1976, and not just because of disco.

TOUCHE, MR. STOKES.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. The more Obama talks about change, the more we realize it's the same old, same old. The more we are reminded of Carter, the more we should run for the other party. I am embarassed to admit that I was one of those "dilusioned" youths who voted for Carter. Listen, my children, wisdom comes with age and experience. At least more experience than 133 days.

Bob Munck......
You COMPLETELY missed the point -- maybe even on purpose! "Those who do no REMEMBER the past are condemned to RELIVE iT" -- so wrote the Spanish philosopher Santayana.

BTW, it isn't the 90's anymoe, Bob (LOL)!

Jimmy vs. Barrack
Obama is no Carter. Carter was an unknown quantity in Washington and his self righteousness ended up antagonizing his own party.

By contrast Dems on the hill who don't already have an Obama connection are clamoring to create one. Did anyone see the coverage of his visit to Congress during the primary? Even REPUBLICAN congressmen were literally lining up for photo ops.

What Was Obama Before 28 Years Old?
Obama supposedly converted to Christianity when he was 28 years old. What was he before then? In order to convert to something, one must have something to convert from.

What Trinity Church practices and believes is NOT representative of the broad, broad majority of Christian Churches. We DISASSOCIATE ourselves from Trinity Church, and we rebuke what they preach and believe.

Christians aren't going to go along with Obama; we know a wolf in sheep's clothing when we see one, and we saw Obama from far, far off. He isn't fooling anyone, except perhaps the media who made him.

i agree
Insightful article! As an evangelical, I am sad to admit that a lot of evangelicals are ill-informed and can't discern the real Obama through the fluff. Your points about the social gospel are right on.

Social action
What do you think the drive to social action is based on? It's based on morality.

evangelicals
it would be nice if we could have a new republican party minus the crazy preachers beginning with the king of the crazies pat robertson

their tax exempt status is suppose to prevent them from political organizing

their faith is suppose to prevent them from being unloving

the famous greedy preachers are the ones who do the most exploiting

Why Young Evangelicals back Obama?

Former “Bush-backer (Stephen Mansfield) pens pro-Obama book.” Steve wrote “The Faith of George W. Bush” which spent 15 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list in 2004, his new book is “The Faith of Barack Obama.” Does this book represent the new voice of Evangelicals Christians?

Politico-”Young Evangelicals are saying, ‘Look, I’m pro-life but I’m looking at a guy who’s first of all black-and they love that; two, who’s a Christian; and three who believes faith should bear on public policy,” Mansfield, who described himself as a conservative Republican, said in a telephone interview. “They disagree with him on abortion, but they agree with him on poverty, on the war.”

His book, provided exclusively to Politico by the publisher, focuses more on Obama’s religious journey than his electoral prospects.

“For Obama, faith is not simply political garb, something a focus group told him he ought to try. Instead, religion to him is transforming, lifelong, and real,” Mansfield writes, going on to compare Obama favorably to Christian Democratic presidents Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, who he says erected a “wall of separation” between their religion and their governance.

By contrast, “Obama’s faith infuses his public policy, so that his faith is not just limited to the personal realms of his life, it also informs his leadership,” Mansfield writes.

read more

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/why-young-evangeli cals-back-obama

Why Evangelicals Support O?
Especially young ones?

Because they are ignorant of what their own faith teaches, like I was when I voted for Carter when I was 18 because he was from my state and he was 'a nice Christian man'.

Because they don't have a comprehensive Biblical worldview but a hodgepodge of man-made philosophies that change with the wind, or the culture, or their mood.

Because they don't know how to evaluate whether or not a worldview and/or political position is inherently logical and consistent.

Because they have bought the line that judgment is a bad thing, so they don't use any.

Because they have been deceived. Their parents and churches have failed to teach them this:

"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." (Colossians 2:8)

That's why.

Obama's version of Christianity
Great column! You've got it! It's frustrating to see Evangelicals get fooled by Obama's good-sounding "talk". For Evangelicals that want to understand precisely how Obama's version of Christianity is NOT consistent with their Evangelical beliefs, check out this website. It provides real quotes, directly from Obama's mouth about what he believes, followed by what Christianity really says...
http://www.mccainorhussein.com/



The Christian vote
There is only one party and candidate that a committed Christian can support: The Constitution Party and their candidate, Chuck Baldwin.

Christians Everywhere
Just check out a Boston Globe article from Friday June 27th:
"Grim Proving Ground for Obama's Housing Policy"
This is another indication of Obama's extraordinary non-Christian baggage.
The Boston Globe is not exactly a "right-wing"
publication.

Christians
just check out a Boston Globe article from Friday June 27th.
"Grim Proving Ground for Obama's Housing Policy"
We can add this information to Obama's ever growing baggage.

Hang it up?
Bob, you say this author is stuck in the past and he should bring his thinking up into the 90's? Back in the 70's, 80's and 90's I was a kool-aid drinking democrat who marched lock-step with my party, just like the Obama supporters of today.

I voted for Carter in the 70's and I remember the long gas lines, interest rates on my mortgage soared to 14.5% and I watched as our American citizens were held hostage by the Ayatollah for 444 days. Didn't matter to me. I was young and foolish and I believed in the democrats message (take from the rich, give to the poor, military is bad and the ACLU is good, increased massive gov't programs are good, teacher's unions are good, etc.) even though they took my money and squandered it on a massive, bloated government.

And even though I prospered tremendously under Ronald Reagan's presidency, I still remained loyal to the democrats.


Hang it up?
(continued)
The democrats served up a good ol' boy from Arkansas who's election theme song was "Don't stop thinking about tomorrow". Yep, that was my theme song too. But our country was embarrassed by Clinton and his extra-marital affairs, his dallying around in the White House, and the cesspool of scandals surrounding his presidency.

Today we are paying the price for those failed presidencies of Clinton and Carter. Students are failing at rates that should not be seen in the greatest country in the world. Social Security has no hope of helping those who have paid into that system for so many of their working years. Those who create businesses, providing jobs to Americans are penalized by having their taxes increased. Abortion is unrestricted, even for our nation's teenagers. The ACLU defends America haters.

I finally grew up. I realized how bankrupt the democrat party is (morally, fiscally, socially) and I changed my vote. The Carter and Clinton presidencies gave me the fodder I needed to break out of the democrat box and vote for someone else who wasn't endorsed by the likes of Dean, Gore, Pelosi, Reid, etc...

Today's youth know very little of Carter, Clinton and especially Obama. They ignore history (or were they even taught History?) I doubt it. They drink up the Obama kool-aid swill.

Hang it up?
Today, I am a Bible-believing Christian evangelical, and I know a fraud when I see him. Obama's pastor of 20 years is a cynical, hate-filled man who Obama chose to listen to for all those years. When Wright said Obama was just doing what politicians do, he was right.

Obama rejects any attempt to save the life of an unborn child, even those who survive an abortion. What Christian could believe that?

And Obama says there are many paths to God which is in direct contradiction to the Bible that tells Christians that there is only One way to the Father in heaven, and that is through Jesus Christ.

Obama is a deceiver and a fraud. I will not vote for him in November.

Jarrod, Ace
When i was in my late teens, working on construction crews to get money for college, the old timers talked just like you guys. I listened. Accordingly, when they talked about things they would do differently, i tried to not make the same mistakes. It worked pretty well. I just wish there were more teens around who realize that there is a lot to be learned by listening to older folks. The smarter ones still do. I hope i am wrong when it seems these more intelligent young folks are getting harder to find.

Hang it up
Ace, you have hit the nail square on the head with Obama's.
I for one have always distrusted a Southern Democrat that runs for president, they always talk out of both sides of their mouth, but I distrust Obama more. Obama has more mouths than I can count to talk out of.
If it had not been for those two imbeciles we would not be fighting a war, or high gas prices.
If the people put Obama in office I hate to see what all the mess he will have us in.
A great article.

Obama and Spiritual Guidance
"Well, my pastor [Jeremiah Wright] is certainly someone who I have an enormous amount of respect for... Father Michael Pfleger is a dear friend, and somebody I interact with closely."
-Barack Hussein Obama
----------------------------------------------

Father Pfleger said: "..."She wasn't the only one crying," he shouted as he mockingly pretended to cry, "There was a whole lot of white people crying...... "I'm white! I'm entitled! There's a black man stealing my show..."

Mentor Wright: "...God Damn America..."

Is Obama a Muslim?
In an interview with Nicholas Kristof, published in The New York Times, Obama recited the Muslim call to prayer, the Adhan, "with a first-class [Arabic] accent."
The opening lines of the Adhan (Azaan) is the Shahada:

"Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that Muhammad is his prophet...."

According to Islamic scholars, reciting the Shahada, the Muslim declaration of faith, makes one a Muslim. This simple yet profound statement expresses a Muslim's complete acceptance of, and total commitment to, the message of Islam. Obama chanted it with pride and finesse.

Is Obama a Muslim 2
I agree with those that say whether Obama is a Muslim or not is the business of Obama.

That being said: It does matter to me as an American citizen if Obama is an "apostate" Muslim because then it is the duty of all Muslims to kill him.

That might make security a little tough when he travels to Iran to negotiate without pre-conditions.

That might make security for Obama in the United States tough as there are over 9 million muslims here.

If Obama is a Muslim I as an American citizen would like to know what he is before election time and find we have Muslims trying to destroy America and a muslim POTUS negotiating with them.

If ones father is Muslim that automatically makes one a Muslim under Muslim law - what was Obama for the 27 year period between the time he left the Muslim school and was baptized a Christian?

Obama seems confused about what he is religiously and what he wants to be religiously.

Confusion and not remembering what people were like "Thats not the Mentor Wright I remember" and I listened to Mentor Wright 23 years and didn't know 'what he was teaching' or thats not the 'Tony Rezco' I knew or not the 'Bill Ayers'
I knew.

Either Mentor Wright is a poor mentor or Obama is a poor student - he has no experience and will be learning on the job - Obama better get a better Mentor or someone needs to teach Obama how to learn - QUICK - without a teleprompter he seems confused and lost.

All of this seems to make Obama either playing with truth and having a convenient memory or one dazed confused individual.

Obama and al-Taqiyya
The following was copied from an Islamic Scholar who is a practicing Muslim teacher.
------------------------------------------------
The word "al-Taqiyya" literally means: "Concealing or disguising one's beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies at a time of eminent danger, whether now or later in time, to save oneself from physical and/or mental injury." A one-word translation would be "Dissimulation."

With the above in mind, it becomes evident that a better, and more accurate definition of "al-Taqiyya" is "diplomacy." The true spirit of "al-Taqiyya" is better embodied in the single word "diplomacy" because it encompasses a comprehensive spectrum of behaviors that serve to further the vested interests of all parties involved.

"al-Taqiyya is with the tongue only; he who has been COERCED into saying that which angers Allah (SWT), and his heart is comfortable (i.e., his TRUE faith has NOT been shaken.), then (saying that which he has been coerced to say) will NOT harm him (at all); (because) al-Taqiyya is with the tongue only, (NOT the heart)."

NOTE: The meaning is that the tongue is permitted to utter anything in a time of need, as long as the heart is not affected; and one is still comfortable with faith.


Obama and Muslims
The word "Taqiyya" literally means: "Concealing, precaution, guarding.” It is employed in disguising one's beliefs, intentions, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions or strategies. In practical terms it is manifested as dissimulation, lying, deceiving, vexing and confounding with the intention of deflecting attention, foiling or pre-emptive blocking. It is currently employed in fending off and neutralising any criticism of Islam or Muslims.


Falsehoods told to prevent the denigration of Islam, to protect oneself, or to promote the cause of Islam are sanctioned in the Qur'an and Sunna, including lying under oath in testimony before a court, deceiving by making distorted statements to the media such as the claim that Islam is a “religion of peace”. A Muslim is even permitted to deny or denounce his faith if, in so doing, he protects or furthers the interests of Islam, so long as he remains faithful to Islam in his heart.


http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=178

Jimmy Carter with a permanent tan!!!!
That's ALL Broccoli Insane O'Vomit really is!!!! In fact if he "converted to Christianity", and all his African relatives say he was RAISED MUSLIM, then he's either an apostate to Islam and subject to an automatic fatwah or lying to fool the infidels. This IS allowed.

The 9/11 killers ALL hid in plain sight by going to bars and strip clubs. NO observant Muslim would be seen drinking and whoring in public. In fact they are ENCOURAGED to blend into their enemies society to better be ready to bring them down. There is NO leaving Islam, not EVER! Except in a body bag.

This guy is a scary melding of Carter, Mugabe and a closet version of Rachman. Once again. Who the Hell is running this incompetent mind numbed FRAUD!!! He can't put two words together without Axelrod's magical teleprompter.

-Ray
NRA Life Member

Yes, we can't!
The new Obama slogan.

Ace said
Obama is a deceiver and a fraud.
------------------------

evangelist
I see what you are saying but I believe that talk radio is going to be a changing force! I hear more and more democrats calling in and so I think more dems will be talking to their kids,grown or college age, and helping them make their decision. Some has to start saying black liberation movement!!! Then explain it and tie him(Obama) to it. There are a lot of blacks out there that get it and are against him!!! They are real evangelistics!!!

Must Visit Website
Black conservatives and truth about Obama.

One of the best sites on the internet and should be visited by all.

http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/

OBAMA MOST LIKELY A CLOSET ATHEIST

.....If one examines Obamas career, the people he associated with, and his purported goals one has to conclude that he is a Marxist ...

.....This does not mean that he is a card carrying Communist but it does mean that he has been influenced by the philosophy of Marxism ...

.....To be a Marxist is to be an Atheist ...there are no religious Marxists ...Marx had two main goals ...to destroy Capitalism (world wide) and to destroy religion (God) ...a religious Marxist is an oxymoron ...

.....Anyone can claim to be a Christian but Obama's actions belie his words ...in other words he is a phoney and a liar ...and more than that ...he is dangerous .....COLOSSUS

Silly
The connections the author makes between Carter and Obama are so tangenial. It is like any chance to repeat the McCain talking point makes for good consumption here at Townhall.

Also, insulting Evangelicals by suggesting they are ignorant is OK for conservative commentators without a peep from commentors. How could any Evangelical vote for a Democrate? I can tell you how, by undertsanding that evangelicals are not a group that are reducable to only one or two issues like abortion or Same Sex Marrage. Evangelicals care about a lot of things including the poor, the environment, and are also Americans who care about their own interests.

Just as many prochoice women voted Republican for economic issues or on national security issues. Some evangelicals especially those who think on their own rather than takeing orders from Tony Perkins or James Dobson are making a choice of which candidate best (not perfectly) shares their values.

It just shows that you can say anything you want on Townhall and get a pass as long as it includes an attack on OBAMA.


Obama in his own words......
On Religion:
------------------
Audacity of Hope: "Lolo (Obama's step father) followed a brand of Islam …." "I looked to Lolo for guidance".

Dreams of my Father: "The person who made me proudest of all, though, was [half brother] Roy .. He converted to Islam."

Dreams of my Father: "In Indonesia, I had spent two years at a Muslim school"

Dreams of my Father: "I Studied the Koran."


Obama in his own words......
On Race:
------------------
Dreams of My Father: "I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race".

Dreams of my Father: "The emotion between the races could never be pure….. the other race would always remain just that: menacing, alien, and apart."

Dreams of my Father: "Any distinction between good and bad whites held negligible meaning."

Dreams of My Father: "I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites"

Dreams Of My Father: "I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa, that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself..".

Dreams of My Father: "That hate hadn't gone away," he wrote, blaming "white people — some cruel, some ignorant, sometimes a single face, sometimes just a faceless image of a system claiming power over our lives."

Dreams of My Father: "There were enough of us on campus to constitute a tribe, and when it came to hanging out many of us chose to function like a tribe, staying close together, traveling in packs," he wrote. "It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names"

Dreams of my Father: "Desperate times called for desperate measures, and for many blacks, times were chronically desperate. If nationalism could create a strong and effective insularity, deliver on its promise of self-respect, then the hurt it might cause well-meaning whites, or the inner turmoil it caused people like me, would be of little consequence."

Obama is
Obama is a muslim, Obama is an Atheist, Obama is a Black Liberation Theologist, Obama is a marxist, communist. According to Karl Rove he is a country club elitist.

When is someone gonna wake up and realize that these accusations are all contraditory and incompatable.

Why do do many of the posters hate this man so much? Why is there so much anger and bitterness? Why not just say you don't agree with him. Whats next Obama the Black Devil.

Lets see what else people can make up out of their butts about Obama.


Obama in his own words......
More on Race:
----------------------

Dreams of my Father: "To avoid being mistaken for a racial sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night, in the dorms, we discussed neocolonialism, Franz Fanon, Eurocentrism, and patriarchy."

Dreams of my Father: "there was something about him that made me wary," Obama wrote. "A little too sure of himself, maybe. And white."

Dreams of my Father: "the reason black people keep to themselves is that it's easier than spending all your time mad, or trying to guess whatever it was that white folks were thinking about you."

Dreams of my Father: One line in Malcolm X's autobiography "spoke" to Obama "it stayed with me," he says. "He spoke of a wish he'd once had, the wish that the white blood that ran through him, there by an act of violence, might somehow be expunged."


So here we have it, a racist, ex-muslim turned hate-filled christian who's proven his word means absolutely nothing - for president.

"Blue-eyed rapist"
were Macolm's words.

JMO51
You are a prime example of what Mr. Stokes was writing about.

In my 30 plus years as a Christian and Biblical Researcher I,ve seen the Church go from being "on fire for Jesus" to being "luke warn."

A Christian who believes and takes time to understand the Bible would see that Obama is leading them astray with his beautiful words (which he does not write himself).

Mr. Stokes was not insulting anyone. If you weren't thinking 'like the world thinks' you could have asked yourself if God was trying to give so-called Christians a wake up call thru Mr. Stokes.

We know that in the Last Days that the Church (not true Christians) will fall away from the truth. These same "Christians" will more than likely join the One World Religion and except the antichrist as God when he comes.

You should ask yourself if God is speaking to you instead of putting Mr. Stokes down.

"the Matthew 25 movement"
or any other "movements" for that matter represent the false prophets spoken of in the Bible. The Word is just that and requires not the prophetic interpretations of any movement.
I see Obama as a possible candidate for the position of anti-Christ because his election as US President will herald the downfall of the last Jerusalem (the USA) of mankind before the end times.

GUMBI5

.....Thanks for your post ...nothing is more incriminating than using the man's own words .....COLOSUS

and here's the beginning
message of the Matthew 24 text:
"Take heed that no man deceive you."

Apostasy: "The Left" of the Throne of Go
I believe we are in the Laodicean era (Rev3) wherein the "church" see itself as being rich but God sees them as very poor and very blind. A breakdown of Laodicea into English yields something akin to the idea that "the people rule," in other words, God does not rule over their lives. It is the apostasy that Paul speaks of to the Thessalonians (2:2-3). Is that aspect of the church that moves toward Obama the apostate church? I think a great indicator of that is a "church member's" perspective on their personal relationship with Israel. I see an anti-Israel attitude as the best lead indicator of apostasy today... especially from a "Matthew 24" (not 25) approach (unless you're speaking of those on "The Left" of the throne of God, that is, the goats who are made to depart from His Presence due to their anti-Jewish behavior... which is what the passage is all about).


Black Liberation Theology
Many years ago while I was studying theology at Candler School of Theology in Atlanta, I took a course in Black and Feminist Liberation Theology. We had many professors that were steeped in both. Black Liberation Theology is a dangerous movement. Obama could not spend 20 years in a church that preaches BLT and not believe it. Unless of course, he slept through the sermons and actually didn't listen. Maybe that is how he managed to say "the reverend Wright I heard yesterday, was not the reverend Wright I knew." His friend father Pfleger also is a Liberation Theologian, not Black, but a black-wantabee. Obama is dangerous, and I for one will do all I can to keep him from being elected.

evangelicals pick loosers
If there is a theme to this article it is Evangelicals pic real loosers. George Bush certainly failed them. He was voted in to block gay marriage and put an end to abortion. He has done neither. Especially abortion. Why kill a sacred cow. Want to get evangelicals to vote, trot out the abortion issue. Bush could've put an end to it for good. He had a republican majority and he would have just with a wave of the hand finished it off, but he didn't.

And you underestimate Carter. We would not be as vulnerable to gas price hikes if the Reagan had left the mileage requirements and development of solar and alternative energy sources that Carter had put in place. But now we find ourselves at the mercy of Chavez, Putin and the Iranian president who are forming an oil pact.

charlie
before saying that Obama could be a canidate for the antichrist, please go to "27 charastics of the antichrist" I'm sorry that I can't remamber the exact website (I think that it is eadshome.com) You'll find that Obama would be more of a canadate for the false prophet who wiil come before the antichrist.

Well,
As one of those "poorly educated, easily led evangelicals" I find Obama's positions, both theological and politcal, unacceptable.

However, I really don't give a fig about any candidate's religious doctrine so long as it doesn't conflict with governing a secular republic (sorry, Muslims!). I care very much about a candidate's character, and that part of a person is independent of faith or lack thereof. The overwhelming test that I apply to political candidates is the Constitution. If a candidate can HONESTLY swear fealty to that, he has my vote.

Obviously, given the above, I have no candidate in this year's election.

antichrist
That should read 27 characteristics of the antichrist.

My brain thinks faster than my hands can type.

my 2 cents
I see the similarity between the two this way - I fear that Obama will win the presidency. If that does happen he will prove terribly similar to jimmuh in that he will shortly demonstrate to the whole world how spectacularly incompetent he is.

But the world is much more dangerous these days and I don't know if we could make it through 4 more years like that.

If bo does win it we are in for some tough times.

Why are there so many
capital letters in this column?

Thankyou David,good word
Saint John in his first short letter to the church,I John ,Said of the world the media if you will,"they are of the world therefore they speak of the world,and the world hears them."What does this mean to the every day Joe ?The non believers of the Gospel according to the Bible ,have their own way of thinking and speaking,this is not compatable with the Bible.Paul states in his letter to the Church of the Thessalonians,that the children of light will not be taken by surprise concerning the events of the end times,why?Because we are faithful students of the word of God,the Bible.So fear not saints,we know the voice of the Good Shepherd,and He wll not lead us astray...

Antichrist
You want to know what the anti christ is. Republican strategist praying for a terrorist attack in American City before election day just so they can stay in power through fear mongering.

That is evil.

Conservatives shouldn't need reminding
Conservatives shouldn't need reminding that Obama's liberalism is simply incompatible with Christianity. Religious conservatives, who are in full possession of God's truth, and whose political views are based on the Bible, should not be fooled by a liberal. Biblical politics is conservative politics, and no liberals need apply. Surely the religious Right can't include very many who will succumb to Obama's scam. What's wrong with the religious indoctrination conservatives have been giving themselves for the past several decades? You guys must have your act together by now.

JMO51
Please state your source for that outrageously STUPID and vile remark.
I mean I’ve heard that Muslims think it is their duty to bring world chaos so that the Tweleveth Imam will come.

BUT NOT CHRISTIANS!

ANY Christian will tell you that we CANNOT PUT OFF, or BRING FORWARD, the end times. The timing is all GOD’s! When we see signs of The End we can only warn.

We are instructed to pray: Even so come quickly Lord Jesus, so that the time of suffering may be shortened” (paraphrase). We certainly DO NOT pray for the time of suffering to be started.


JMO51
i agree with you about people praying for something bad to happen so the conservatives can keep power. It is evil. People who do this "Know not what spirit they are."

Just like there are those who keep saying that obama could be the antichrist, when they do not even know what the characteristics of the antichrist are.

When compared with the Bible, the actions of obama are very evil, but so are the actions of over half the world.

I do not like obama's action, words, etc. based on my relationship with Jesus Christ. I have nothing against the man. He has to answer to God, not me.

Gestel
Many have become too "Seeker Friendly" and not in the least Bible Friendly. They teach the very easy "Social Gospel" because that can be done, (at a distance) with other peoples money and sacrifice

Now that you got your snark out, go back and read the article, Mr. Stokes explains, so even YOU can understand the difference between the two.

Evangelicals Blamed.
Here we go again with some fake conservative blaming the Evangelicals.

Go ahead, fine.

Some conservatives will still support the GOP and be helpless fools and people who are dependant on a political party to save them.

Go ahead, keep burning bridges, and losing the support of me and people like me. And build bridges with liberals insted.

Lets see how that works out for you.

Think on this
It doesn't matter what anyone here thinks of either Obama or McCain.

A true Christian knows that the best person to put in place God's purposes for America will win.

God has a purpose for America, whether it be for destruction or something else, only He knows. This has been declared before time began.

Obama on Muslims
1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by a Muslim extremist.

1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by Muslim extremists.

In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by Muslim extremists.

During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by Muslim extremists.

In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by Muslim extremists.

In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by Muslim extremists.

In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by Muslim extremists.

In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by Muslim extremists.

In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by Muslim extremists.

In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by Muslim extremists.

On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take down the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by Muslim extremists.

In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by Muslim extremists.


"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
Barack Obama from 'Audacity of Hope'

IF AMERICA LOSES ITS MIND

.....And elects Obama ...then Israel will attack Irans nuclear facilities before his inauguration ...they will have no choice ...it will be a matter of their survival ...

.....It will be interesting to see, in a detached, objective, impersonal sort of way, how President elect Obama will deal with a Middle East crises, possible all out war, with an acute shortage of oil to fuel our already faltering economy ...

..... Perhaps he can negotiate with Ahmanutjob on how to replace nuclear with a giant wind farm? .....COLOSSUS

Animal
Same challenge to you as to JMO51. Where do you hear such utterly inane and vile remarks? There are certainly none like that on this forum today.

Anyway nice STRAW MAN. Now that you have beaten the STRAW MAN down to a bloody pulp do you have anything relevant to say?

Linda
Which "utterly inane and vile remarks" are you refering to??
I do not remember making any of the kinds of remarks you are refering to.

Please explain!!!!

Animal Sorry
In a later post I saw that you did have some thing relevant to say. I was talking about your 4:22 post not your 4:51 post

JMO51 I was specificaly refering to your 4:15 post but I could probably relate it to all your posts

Animal
JMO51
i agree with you about people praying for something bad to happen so the conservatives can keep power. It is evil. People who do this "Know not what spirit they are."

THAT was what I was talking about! I have seen that accusation several times on Townhall, but I have never seen any examples of “people praying for something bad to happen”

Linda
In that post I was not saying that "any" true Christian would pray for something to happen. I was just saying that there may very well be those people who may pray this, just like when Christ walked the earth with his followers, they wanted destruction of there enemies. That is when Jesus rebuked them for not knowing what kind of spirit they were.

As a Christian, I would like to know where the reference came from also. I do know from experence that liberals try to change things by throwing out things that are flat out lies to see just who will be dumb enough to believe them.

EVANGELICALS
JUMPING UP AND DOWN WHILE WAVING YOUR ARMS AND YELLING DOESN'T MAKE YOU A FOLLOWER OF JESUS CHRIST-READ THE BIBLE,ALL THE BIBLE NOT JUST THAT PART THAT PLEASES YOU-WAKE UP YOU CAN ONLY BE AS STUPID AND IGNORANT AS BARACK OBAMA ABOUT SALVATION BY LISTNING TO SOME DUMB HATE FILLED PREACHER FOR 20 YEARS AND NOT CHECKING HIS WORDS WITH THE WORD OF GOD-IF YOU MUST BE FOOLS STAY HOME AND DON'T INFLICK YOUR IGNORANCE ON THIS GOOD NATION.OBABA HAS NO IDEA ABOUT SALVATION THROUGH JESUS THE CHRIST AND AS JESUS SAID THROUGH HIM ONLY.

Brzezinski-Obama and Foreign Relations
Zbigniew Brzezinski is currently the national security advisor for Obama. He was Carter's National Security Advisor from 77-81. Consider Carter's bizarre pro-Palestian, anti-Israel stance right now and imagine Brezinski's as President Obama's NSA. Obama already let Robert Malley go as being too anti-Israel for public consumption. If we turn our back on Israel we will, as Obama likely will despite his public remarks to the contrary, the U.S. will most likely move prophecy along without trying to.

"Now ADONAI said to Avram, 'Get yourself out of your country, away from your kinsmen and away from your father’s house, and go to the land that I will show you. I will make of you a great nation, I will bless you, and I will make your name great; and you are to be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you, but I will curse anyone who curses you; and by you all the families of the earth will be blessed.'”

Genesis 12:1-3

Linda
You won't see any examples. Liberals do not give examples, just throw things out there. Ask for examples and you will probably get called names.

Don't let those commints bother you. Liberals feed off of upset people.

JM051 :Obama Is
#1

Beginning as a little child, we are influenced by the people closest to us. Per Obama his mother was a radical Marxist. She "was the dominant figure in my formative years; and the values she taught me continue to be my touchstone in the world of politics".

In a web search attempt to find someone “with a clean slate” as Barack Obamas friends – I found none.
Instead I found his mentors:
Frank Marshall Davis (communist)
While living in Hawaii, Obama’s childhood mentor was Frank Marshall Davis, a member of the communist party (CPUSA).Records show that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, getting advise (from Davis) on his “career
path”. (Information from AIM “Obamas Communist Mentor” 02/18/088.

Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Jr. (pastor/mentor)While addressing the 50th anniversary convention of the United Church of Christ, Obama stated that he joined Trinity United Church of Christ because he was “moved by sermons by its seniour pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Jr.”. And we all know about Rev. Wright’s sermons.

(Rev. Wright’s mentor was James Cone, author of “Black Theology and Black Power” Mr. Cone links the cross to the lynching tree --- for him they interpret each other).


JM051 :Obama Is
#3

Obama associates:
William Ayers and Carl Davidson (former members of the Students for a Democratic Society).
Ayres; Just weeks after the Jeremiah Wright controversy, Obama is now faced with defending his ties to admitted terrorist William Ayers, who once plotted to blow up government buildings and even years later said his group didn't regret setting bombs and "hadn't done enough." Ayers served with Obama on the board of the Woods Fund of Chicago.
Davidson; Now associated with the Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism, an offshoot of the old Moscow controlled CPUSA. Davidson also helped organize the 2002 rally where Obama came out against the Iraq war. (Information from an Aim Column 2/18/08)

Tony Rezko; When asked by the Tribune why he didn't break off the relationship,Obama said Rezko "gave me assurances that he was not doing anything wrong" and "my instinct was to believe him." Tony" Rezko is a businessman who has helped raise campaign money for Mr. Obama and many other Illinois politicians. He was convicted on 16 of 24 counts involving mail fraud, wire fraud, money laundering and aiding and abetting bribery.The charges have no connection to Mr. Obama, but Rezko is tied to the Illinois senator in other ways.
(If Iran president M. Ahmadinejad told Obama that "he was not doing anything wrong" I wonder if Obamas instinct would be to believe him. That’s really scary).

Rashid Khalidi; Mr. Khalidi is a Palestinian scholar and author on Middle Eastern affairs who has called Israel a racist state bent on creating "an apartheid system." He's also a friend of Mr. Obama. (In 2002 Ayers and Obama give $35,000 to the Arab American Action Network).

JM051 :Obama Is
#4

Rev. Michael Pfleger;The Rev. Michael Pfleger, the white, longtime pastor of a mostly black Catholic parish in Chicago, has been protesting everything from gun shops to Jerry Springer. Mr. Obama has referred to him as a spiritual adviser and used him as a political supporter.

Alexi Giannoulias;Became Illinois state treasurer last year after Obama vouched for him, has pledged to raise $100,000 for the senator's Oval Office bid. Giannoulias is so tainted by reputed mob links that several top Illinois Dems, including the state's speaker of the House and party chairman, refused to endorse him even after he won the Democratic nomination with Obama's help.(article By CHARLES HURT Bureau Chief New York Post 09/05/07

Excuse me Mr. Obama, Is there anyone good you know? I know it isn’t Jesus Christ!!! And this isn’t even a complete list of his mentors, friends and associates.
Some groups Barack Obama is or has been associated with are communist, socialist, Marxist, Palistinian and of course racist(and still has supporters in all).

These are the people he chooses to associate with!!!!!!!! These are the people who have influenced him his whole life and will influence him as POTUS. God help us all.





Sharon
George W. Bush by his own admission has close family ties with the Saudi royal family. The Saudi Royal family has been funding hate mongering Muslim Schools. Osama comes from a Saudi Family that also has close ties to the Royal Family. During the 2000 campaign Bush attended an event at Bob Jones University which until recent forbid interracial dating.

Sharon who did you vote for in 2000?

Animal
Charles Black advisor to John McCain in an interview talked about how a terrorist attack before the election would be good for McCain. Speculating about this suggests that it is a hope.

McCain has not seen fit to dismiss this individual which I find troubling?

Also I want to ask you about you earlier post are you suggesting that when evangelicals support a Republican like GWB they are being with Jesus, but when they support a Democrat like Obama they are being Jesus lite?


Linda From Whittier CA
Let me be clear I did not mean to suggest that evangelicals are praying for the end of days to arrive, I simply don't know enough to make a statement like this. I was referring to Republican Operatives including Karl Rove and McCain advisor Charles Black.


Rich Warren Is a Whore
Rick Warren has proven beyond a doubt that he will sell his soul to self-promote.

JM051 :Obama Is
I voted for Bush and would do it again considering who he was running against. I do not fully understand the (long, before either were presidents) relationship with the Saudies, oil I would imagine. The difference is they are not his mentors or teachers. Bush doesn't consult with them, get political, presidential advise from them, contribute to terrorism or support racism. He has never denied the families friendship nor has had any reason to "throw them under the bus" for his own political gain. There are a lot of things about Bush that have been a disappointment to me and (altho I will vote for him) McCain was not my preference for the Republican candidate. Obamas whole life has been surrounded by, influenced by and friends with anti-Americans. If he were running on a white tkt., which is his primary race, he would not have made it to the front door. According to a couple of articles he is 50% white, 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% black. Not sure where they got the info but if true he does not qualify as black in this country.

(I don't know what happened to the 2nd part of previous comments)

JEC, Jr. is still a disaster
JEC is BHC or is BHC JEC??? Both are disasters as elected officials. JEC is still a disaster as a former President.

I agree with Sharon (#75), I'd take two more terms of W rather than (and W's disappointments will be much less of an issue than BHO's "successes") suffer with BHO... or McInsane for that matter.

JM051 & animal
In the interview Charles Black was ask by the reporter what he thinks would happen if there was another terrorist attack befor the elections. His answer was that he thought it would help the Republicans win. He and Bush later appologized but it was just an honest response to a stupid question. Not something hoped for.
And JM051 I forgot to mention I do not hate Obama, doubt if many of us do. But we can and I do hate his lack of morals (while he is claiming to be a Christian) and the billions of dollars of taxes he will burden us.

Sirhan Sirhan
Retired Geek (#58)... Sirhan Sirhan wasn't a Muslim, he was a Maronite Christian who dabbled with Baptists and Seventh Day Adventists (and the occult)... a nut-job he was and probably still is...

JM051 :Obama Is
part of the lost #2

Emile Jones Jr.(Political Godfather)Mr. Jones, the president of the Illinois Senate, amounts to Mr. Obama's political godfather and was an important part of his longshot victory for U.S. Senate in 2004. He helped the little-known politician meet the right people, and he picked Mr. Obama to handle high-profile legislation during the two years leading up to the election. It was Emile Jones Jr. who Obama approached with an unexpected proposal: Use you new clout to back me for U.S. Senate (and he did. “He needed someone who could give him credibility” Jones said.(It was also said Jones would take issues that other senators had been working on and give them to Obama. (I wonder if those are the same issues he takes all the credit for now!!!)). Mr. Jones is known for steering state money to a few favored institutions, including some that employ his relatives. Several of his relatives have gotten state jobs, and his wife's government salary jumped 60 percent after he became Senate president. He has played an important role in blocking ethics legislation in Illinois.(CBS News 06/13/08)

This is who he wants to get political advise and help from!!!!!!!!!!!!

The "Worlds" a Different Place... Nah...
Bob Munck... the world is still the same, the Democrats are still the same... throwing up the same old tired socialist answers since the turn of the 20th century... capped by the socialist programs of FDR and LBJ and still spewed by the eurosocialist turds running the Congress today.

No Bob, the world hasn't changed, just the players... just say NO to Jimmie Earl the Second and vote RIGHT... er, that may be difficult.

The Past...
Brian (#3)... Idiots to dismiss the past are doomed to repeat it... by voting FOR BHO. Scoop Jackson and Lloyd Bentsen were Americans... Frank Church wasn't and Mo Udall was barely. Old Frank loved the USA just like BHO, HRC, Nancy the Red, Dingy Harry, the California Twin Senators, and most Congressional Democrats. Love Power and Socialism before you love the USA they do...

Huffington Post Prostitutes
I wonder how much Arianna pays these left-wingers to come on these threads and spout their inane liesmade up stories and fairy tales.


I hope she gets her money's worth. Every day the same tired old lies form the same crowd. We know their mantra before we read it. Never changes much. They hate GW Bush and that is the one real truth they know.

All the rest is half-truths and innuendos.They must know it is lies. If they do not realize they are lies,they should get their news from somewhere other than Huffy/Kos.


reply to Linda From Whittier CA
I'm not sure what your point is. What I'm saying is that no Christian should be fooled by Obama's pseudo-Christianity, since liberalism and Christianity are plainly incompatible. Conservatives like you have said from its very inception, back in the late 19th century,that the "Social Gospel" isn't Christian. Real Christians know that Christianity has nothing to do with social reform or attempts to deal with social problems. Now before you come back at me by invoking the Christianity of many of the late 18th and early 19th century Abolitionists, I'll say that those folks weren't really Christians either. Ending slavery has nothing to do with Christianity, as conservatives know well.

Culling the Republican herd
By logic, evangelicals are a better fit with the Democratic Party than they are with the Republican Party. Evangelicals are not proponents of individualism. They are proponents of altruism: The notion that the individual is not an end in himself, but an object subordinate to whatever morality demands of them.

And their morality has plenty to say on a host of issues: Abstinence which we are spota enforce, the environment which we are spota "steward," the poor whom we are spota feed, the heathens we are spota minister to, the old sick people we are spota keep from self-injecting with poison, and the sinners known as capitalists we are spota regulate for manifesting their love of money.

It is really no surprise that such a crazy, cognitively disorganized group of people would vote for Carter by a margin of 48%.

Nothing New Under The Sun
Ole Jimmy was a nuclear scientist, it was very strange that when he wished to make a point about nuclear energy he asked his daughter Amy's opinion. Oh I forgot a child is always correct because they have nothing to hide (or knowledge of nuclear energy). The Obama defense mechanisim is, You can't say that to a black man. Jimmy said ,wear a sweater, Obama says We want all the citizens of the world to smile when they think of what used to be the USA. Rather than believing what the Bible tells about God and ourselves the Bible again is used as tool to disguise intentions and distract the goodhearted americans. I can't imagine Obama negotiating with that old terrorist Paul aka Saul of Tarsus. On a different note, what will we call the new conservative party, calls to not throw the baby out with the bathwater inspire me to point out that it is not a baby.

People who are here ILLEGALLY
ALWAYS say a lot of really stupid things trying to sound smarter than they really are.

Has anyone other than me noticed that?

Wrat Wrangler
Wrat Wrangler, there is such a thing as leaving Islam. There are plenty of folks who grew up on the Qu'ran, read the New Testament, and got hooked on it, especially when they compared the hatred that the former spews forth with the love that the latter teaches.

One reason why the 'Ulema are getting their knickers in a knot is because swarthy-skinned Evangelicals with names like Hassan and Mehmet are surfacing in once-solidly Muslim strongholds like Algeria, Morocco, and Turkey. In America's "Little Tehrans", Christians with Muslim backgrounds are poised to overtake those of Armenian, Assyrian, or Georgian heritage (Iran's historically Christian minorities). In sub-Saharan Africa, the Los-vom-Islam to Christianity has alarmed many in the Arab world.

Peace.

BO15: I know there's a place in Jeremiah where the Jews are called on to pray for the peace of the city to which they are carried away captive. I take that as applying to us Evangelical Christians in a culture where we are no longer dominant, even when it is going Hell-for-Leather into every kind of self-destructive indulgence possible. Those of us who have repented of idolatry know that some others repent of abortion, homosexuality, promiscuity, etc. And, there's even room for you when you decide to repent of bearing false witness against your [evangelical] neighbors.

Replies
...most of the people who are writing are missing a few real fundamental points. First, I think you under estimate the damage that an Obama Presidency will have both in the short term and the long term to this country. Second, Obama is getting so many passes from the media and he is coming across as the second coming -- he is truly scray. We need to push hard to have him actually explain his positions and his plans instead of letting him speak in platitudes and lofty ideals. Too many Americans are too lazy or too ignorant to look deep into this man -- you scratch the surface and he is neither a representative of the black experience, representative Christian ideals and beliefs nor someone who can be trusted to run this great country. Look at his friends and advisors -- you can tell a lot about someone by seeing the books they read and the company they keep. Wake up America.... otherwise you will wake up in 2009 to a socialist country...

What scares me about Obama
is not his religious beliefs, but he is a Marxist. These folks believe that the only organic object of value is the state. The state trumps the value of the individual. If the state is ill, then millions of individuals must be executed until the state is healthy. These folks have killed millions upon millions of people in the name of making the state whole.

One of the significant values that has contributed to the prosperity of the USA is the recognition of inaliable rights bestowed upon individuals by the Creator. The state doesn't create rights, the Creator does. The state doesn't bestow rights, it gets out of the way of the individual.

So, Dewey and his ilk have trained an army of non-thinking youths who now value the community over the individual.

Obama is just a symptom of a country who's citizens no longer recognizes that they, and all of the people who they do not like, have value in the eyes of God. Therefore, those people who they do not like are expendable.

How many countries are going to go down this path of self destruction before mankind learns that communism cannot work because it devalues the very same people who it preaches to protect.

This is indeed scary times.

JMO51
I still want to know. Where in your little world have you heard,, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney or whatever villian of the day you lefties are focusing on, say anything like that. I'll tell you where: in your own little head, that is where. Hasn't happened, won't happen, you can say ignorant,idiotic things like that all you want.

REASONABLE people require PROOF

lewes
"their tax exempt status is suppose to prevent them from political organizing"

Churches have tax-exempt status; preachers do not. If you want to make a fool of yourself, that's your right, but personally I suggest you refrain from posting until you know what you're talking about.

Bob Munck
"Stuck in the past"? Coming from a liberal, that remark is more than slightly ironic.

Blind guides of the blind…


When someone pits one Scripture against another or uses one passage in a way that contradicts another, then we can know that he is still in spiritual darkness.

Jesus said that the ‘Scripture cannot be broken’ [John 10:35]. The depravity of man displays itself when men disagree with the Son of God.

The Bible cannot be approached like any other book. It contains the words of Him who claims to be the image of the invisible God. There is no in between with Jesus Christ. He is either God incarnate or not. It will not do for us to pick and choose from His words or to make a division between Him and the apostolic testimony revealed in the New Testament. Christ prayed for us that believe through the word of His Apostles [John 17:20].

We must come to the Bible believing that God exists and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. The skeptic will always find reason to support his unbelief so that he can continue in his sin with a salved conscience.

The Bible instructs us in the things that we can not know apart from revelation. Those who sit in judgment reject its testimony regarding the nature of men…

Men are not neutral coming to the Bible looking to be convinced of truth. They are rebels and enemies of the cross and unless they are converted the Bible will remain a closed book…

’Seeing they do not see and hearing they do not hear…’ [Matthew 13:10-15].

When we are confronted with our state of deadness in sin and the deceitfulness of our heart we can either plead for mercy or remain in our deception. God the Spirit must overcome our spiritual blindness in His supernatural work of regeneration. Everyone who sees and enters the kingdom is taught of God from the Scriptures.


New Age Churches
People go to church for many different reasons and usually try to find one that fits their beliefs or in some ,their non-beliefs.

Churches today,even Baptists churches are watering down their message to attract young people and some adults who want a feel good message.

At my church,we now sing only one song from the expensive hymnals we purchased. Usually just the invitational hymn. The rest are 'praise songs'repeated over and over.

This is what the youth like,but many adults and seniors like the old way. If our pastor ever starts watering down his message,I will consider looking elsewhere.

The Word of God cannot be changed to fit the congregation. It can be interpreted and some interpretations may be wrong.

If it is taught properly,it doesn't matter what faith you are,there is only one God. Any other is of the Devil.There is only one way to Heaven and that is through Jesus Christ.


{{GOD SAID IT;I BELIEVE IT;THAT SETTLES IT.}}




BO A CHRISTIAN?
Before any evangelical votes for BO they should read this article from the MSM Chicago Sun-Times:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/falsani/726619,obamafalsani04 0504.article

One quote: "Alongside my own deep personal faith, I am a follower, as well, of our civic religion". Barry is not a Christian, just another run of the mill liberal with phoney religious pretensions to snooker the voters.

JFK =BHO?
"....an after-dinner speaker remarked that he was proud Harvard had never graduated an Alger Hiss and even prouder that it had never produced a Joe McCarthy, JFK exploded in anger. Rising at his seat, he shouted, "How dare you couple the name of a great American patriot with that of a traitor!" JOHN F. KENNEDY, by Joyce Milton page 89-90

Joe McCarthy has been proven right about communists in high places in the FDR and Truman administrations by the declassified Verona Project and KGB files. This information is now public knowledge.

Since BO's campaign called both Clintons McCarthyites, presumably with his approval, is BO like JFK? I think not? By "clinging" to the favorite ephithet of the left towards conservatives, BO clearly reveals his allegiance to radical "progessives."
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