Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Friday, December 19, 2008
David Limbaugh :: Townhall.com Columnist
Recapturing Supply-Side Coherence
by David Limbaugh
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


It is widely assumed in conservative circles that Republicans, even under President Bush, pretty much had tax policy right but failed on the spending side. Unfortunately, there's more to it. If conservatives plan to recapture ascendancy on economic issues, they better come to a clearer understanding of supply-side theory. Then perhaps they can articulate it and recapture it as a powerful electoral weapon.

Even when history is on their side, Republicans seem to find a way not to capitalize on it and routinely forfeit the narrative to Democrats, who dwarf them in the communications department from sheer repetition, if nothing else.

The Reagan tax cuts were so phenomenally successful that it's amazing Democrats were able to recover politically as quickly as they did. Despite historical revision to the contrary, all income groups did much better under the Reagan cuts. Remarkably, a Treasury Department study showed that 86 percent of people in the lowest 20 percent of income earners in 1979 graduated into higher categories during the '80s.

The tax cuts skewered then prevailing Keynesian economic theory, producing sustained peacetime economic growth without inflation. The reductions in marginal-income- and capital-gains tax rates even increased revenues.

It doesn't matter how much we repeat this truism or how blue our faces become in the process; the relative deficit explosion during the Reagan years was not caused by the tax cuts but by increases in government spending. Yet Democrats succeeded in establishing the narrative that the tax cuts were at the expense of essential government services and that the cuts increased the deficit and the national debt, thus dubbing the '80s the decade of greed.

President George W. Bush, in campaigning on and implementing his tax cut policy, didn't attempt to sell the nuts and bolts of supply-side theory, only that tax cuts stimulate economic growth. But when he did attempt to articulate the theory beyond a superficial level, he sometimes confused the issue.

Instead of arguing, as did such vintage supply-siders as Ronald Reagan and Jack Kemp in the early '80s, that reductions in marginal income tax rates would spur economic growth because they would provide incentives to produce and invest (supply-side), he said the growth would be (and was) a result of people having more to spend and spending it (demand-side). He compounded the confusion when he attempted to sell his tax rebate plan with the same rationale.

This will play right into incoming President Obama's hands as he rolls out his argument that his further planned tax rebates and his massive spending increases (in the forms of his "stimulus" plan and future bailouts) will stimulate economic growth by increasing demand.

Of course, as a liberal, he believes that, and he's going to continue to say it. But conservatives better get their heads straight on this. The evidence is clear that neither one-time demand-side tax rebates nor Keynesian-type government spending generates economic growth.

The 2008 stimulus bill, which included more than $100 billion in tax rebates on the assumption that people would spend the money immediately, did not work to boost the economy.

People spent less than 16 percent of the rebate money, and no appreciable "jolt" to the economy occurred. That's mainly because these one-time rebates are temporary, and people generally don't increase their spending unless they anticipate or receive a permanent increase in their disposable incomes, such as through salary increases or reductions in their marginal tax rates.

Similarly, policy analyst Brian Riedl, writing for The Heritage Foundation, documents that big-government spending packages, such as that being planned by Obama, almost never work. None of the massive spending hikes tried in the 1930s, 1960s or 1970s worked to stimulate growth. "Yet in the 1980s and 1990s -- when the federal government shrank by one-fifth as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) -- the U.S. economy enjoyed its greatest expansion to date."

But Keynesian-type government spending fails to stimulate the economy because it just substitutes one type of spending (government) for another (private-sector). In fact, such spending plans usually produce the negative effect of reducing incentives to produce because they subsidize leisure and unemployment and they are often funded out of growth-zapping tax increases. The government expenditures also tend to reduce production because they are in place of more efficient private-sector spending.

It's too bad that under President Bush, Republicans have been selling supply-side theory with demand-side (consumption-based) arguments. For conservatives to get back in the game and, more immediately, have any impact in blocking Obama's disastrous and reckless stimulus packages and further bailouts, they must relearn, articulate and sell supply-side theory in the spirit of Ronald Reagan and Jack Kemp.

Otherwise, we not only will cede the tax-and-spend issue to Obama Democrats but also will be complicit in the disastrous fiscal policies that will ensue.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
David Limbaugh, brother of radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, is an expert in law and politics and author of Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today's Democratic Party.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read David Limbaugh's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
Bailout Rouse
"Flea" Levin, aka The Great One has been saying the left has successfully turned around what we've always known as Pork Barrel spending into "necessary stimulus packages to get the economy rolling again". This must be unmasked for the bogus rouse. (Notice how quickly these politicians are trying to spend this unbelievable amount of money). Our Republic is in deep Kimchee, brother!

Spending Addiction
The politicians' need a 12 Step group for the problem of continuing to spend money they DO NOT HAVE and the American People need to decide if they want to live in a poor bankrupt country!

Exactly right
A few things have been proven in my lifetime. One is that Marxism is crap -- theoretically unsound, utterly unworkable, and certain to produce suffering wherever it gains a foothold. Another is that supply-side economics _does_ work.

Unfortunately, supply-siders are always in danger of being drowned out because Marxism has a louder, longer-entrenched cheering section. Worse, when they can make themselves heard, supply-siders have to offer defensive-sounding explanations, e.g., that for every dollar of additional revenue the Reagan-era tax cuts generated, Congress spent $1.56. It's an uphill struggle, but one worth carrying on. Thanks, Mr. Limbaugh.

DAVID!
You should know better amigo. The libs plan to tax and spend their way out of this mess. In fact, NY is leading the way with 88 new fees and taxes and raising everything else.

Liberals...tax and spend, tax and spend...

Ranger 29
opens up his oral aniface and emits a blast of methane.

http://www.heritage.org/research/taxes/bg2001.cfm

Your drivel is disproved by people with IQ's higher than your tepid one.

Ranger29:
I notice that you seem very bitter to anything conservative. Most of your arguments are against individuals, and let's face it...we've been giving you PLENTY of targets for your insults. The old GOP hasn't been doing super great lately.

But if you can, remove any personal beefs you have with conservatism. Do you really think it is a bad system? If so, why?

Specifically, are you anti-capitalist? Do you believe in heavily taxing people's wealth? I just want to know where you're coming from on some of these issues...

Robert
Be honest - have you comprehended any column you've ever read on this site? It might earn you at least a drop of credibility if you would try to actually refute the author's points with evidence of your own.

David
"...Yet Democrats succeeded in establishing the narrative that the tax cuts were at the expense of essential government services and that the cuts increased the deficit and the national debt, thus dubbing the '80s the decade of greed..."

They were right. When Reagan was CA governor CA had the best schools in the country and possibly the world. When reagan became president CA no longer had the best school in the country but we had the best air traffic system in the world. Get the picture here?

Hal Donahue:
I don't count school as an essential government service because they suck at it. School is certainly essential, but when school systems are the way they are today, I don't think that qualifies as an "essential government service".

I think only two services provided by the government are actually "essential": roadways and protection (locally in police forces, and abroad in the military). After that, get the f*** out of my life, Feds!

THE ANTI LIBERAL ZONE
The NUMBER ONE blog on TH (as it should always be) has a FRESH essay for Conservatives up!

Liberals, stay away, you would not understand it anyway. That's why you're dimbulb libsquirts.

Hal Drunkahue's
post at 0809 is the perfect example of a booze addled brain trying to form a coherent thought.

Got any credible links for that Hal or is it just a foggy notion ricocheting around the inside of your vacuum packed skull?

Come on Now, do you really
think his tax cuts were enough. Nor government reduction.

Both are so out of proportion and if a President does a little good on one side he has it right?

NO, government is so big these days that conservatism is if you move one step in the direction. Until conservatism comes in strong like Reagan and make massive cuts, there is no redemption. Reagan only started the motion, to which most republicans left when he left.

So we end up with Bush one foot forward, but two backwards and have another liberal in the White House.

Then wonder why we lose the battle.

GunnyG©
"Date: Dec 19, 2008 - 8:37 AM EST Hal ...Got any credible links for that Hal or is it just a foggy notion ricocheting around the inside of your vacuum packed skull? "

It is all out there you have a computer use it?

Gone With The Wind
A wonderful lifestyle is now gone with the wind. My heart is with the leaders and workers in the auto industry. I sympathize that their industry has suddenly become rusty. They no longer are able to maintain high profits and wages and are now asking for the government to buy millions of their unsold cars. But wisely the reply to their plea is to disappear in an orderly way and remain only as a memory of a glory that once was. Our pride remains as we look at our aircraft industry and its innovative management. Every airport in the world has a made in America aircraft landing every few minutes. We must never let it also become gone with the wind.

David: Not Quite on Target
Government is necessary for the functioning of a civilized society; some level of taxation is necessary for government.

The TRUE problem is expansive government, which in turn requires excessive levels of taxation.

The cogent argument is to return to limited government, while setting the level of taxation appropriately. From the Founding to the New Deal, the Federal Government operated effectively with taxes of 3-5% of GDP. Until the GOP returns to limited government it will remain a borrow and spend party.

Haha
Conservatives giving advice on economics. Priceless.

Hal Donahue translation
Gunny asks: "Hal ...Got any credible links for that Hal or is it just a foggy notion ricocheting around the inside of your vacuum packed skull?"

Hal replies: "It is all out there you have a computer use it?" (not sure why the "?" mark).

Translation: "No, I don't."

Tax-and-Spend Dolls
Liberal Democrats are like a wind-up tax-and-spend doll. That's all they know how to do. It's almost a miracle that JFK's support of tax reduction to jump-start the economy actually proved the validity of this policy, although JFK's successor was the president who actually pushed through the policy.

Democrat politicians are slow learners. They hype themselves as champions of the "little people" and their brains are as small as the supposed beneficiaries of their policies. Actually a more valid description of Demo politicians is would-be welfare kings and queens. Like Marie Antoinette they want to dispense welfare to the masses to keep them in subjugation. God forbid that the faithful Democrat masses prosper on their own!

The Supply Side
Continues to move overseas, thanks to the greed of global corporate capitalists. Tax breaks alone pale in the face of exploiting cheap peasant labor.

Let 'em sell all of their offshored and outsourced products and services overseas as well.

Oh wait, doing so wouldn't generate a tidy profit, now would it??

Hal, exactly what
was the 'education granted with the aid of liberals' that you say conservatives destroy? If you look at actual comparisons, rather than NEA talking points, the pattern is that non-governmental institutes of education do better at actually educating their students than do the government-driven ones.

Also, in regard to your reply to Gunny - I know you know what punctuation is, as you used it in your previous post - it would greatly enhance your image if you would consistently use it in a proper manner. As it is, you simply look as though you don't care about proper punctuation, which is a minor but telling argument against your own statements regarding education.

Aside to sdf - when conservative (not republican, but conservative) financial ideas are tried, they tend to produce positive results. Therefore, I would say that it is indeed priceless - not valueless as you seek to imply.

DDL, was there an actual
point somewhere in that comment, or were you merely taking your time to express your displeasure with capitalist (aka 'working') economic theory?

Ender
"Date: Dec 19, 2008 - 9:39 AM EST Hal, exactly what
was the 'education granted with the aid of liberals' that you say conservatives destroy? "

are you denying that US public education through the 60s was adequate even outstanding in some places? Well except for the segragated southern schools where one was quite good and one quite bad

"...Aside to sdf - when conservative (not republican, but conservative) financial ideas are tried, they tend to produce positive results. Therefore, I would say that it is indeed priceless - not valueless as you seek to imply. "

Really then I will ask yet again why the blue not the red states are the richest, best educated, healthiest, etc

Ender
Yeah, my point was that additional tax cuts using 80s supply side theory would be largely ineffective in the 21st century global economy.


Doofass
If the blue states are so well off, why are they crying to D.C. for a bailout? Seems that the states which are in the red black are the red states.

ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Dec 19, 2008 - 10:01 AM EST Doofass
If the blue states are so well off, why are they crying to D.C. for a bailout? Seems that the states which are in the red black are the red states. "

Hmmm yet they are the richest with the highest standard of living. What does this say about Conservative "economics" and why do they get the largest share of federal money?

I love revisionists...
... like RealCon and Hal Donahue.

I guess they forget which party was in control of Congress during the bulk of the 80's.

I guess they also forget Reagan practically begging in each if his SOTU addresses for line-item veto power to get rid of the out-of-control pork the Dems added to his proposed budgets.

Did the deficit increase? Absolutely.

Did revenues dramatically increase when tax rates were reduced? Absolutely.

If you want to blame someone for the deficits in the 80s - look to the usual suspects, libs/Dems.

Get real
"They were right."

No. Of course, they weren't. One can't at the same time blame Reagan for the rise in spending and then argue that he didn;t spend enough.


@Hal:
I neither support nor deny your comment - I do not, at the moment, have the facts at my fingertips in order to make the statement. I would note, however, that prior to the point in time you mention, education in many ways was considered a local event - schools gained neighborhood pride, among other things. As government intervention increased, local intervention decreased. And the fact that you had to mark your cutoff point at the beginning of the major rise of liberalism in the government is telling, as well.

Beyond that I stand by my point: In the present day, rather than the misty, nostalgic past, non-governmental schools do a better job of educating their students than governmental schools do. If you wish to disprove this statement, please provide specific proofs that I, and others on this site, may review.

And excellent start of reusing proper punctuation, although I'd also focus on capitalization at the moment.

@DDL: Thank you. I am not certain that I agree with your point (my view is that any economic structure is built on those under it, down to two guys making a transaction between themselves - to me, this means that local and national still matter even under global), but I thank you for more clearly stating what you believe on the issue.

What I don't understand
What I don't understand is why supply-siders keep telling people that they are an alternative to Keynesians, when in fact they are Keynesians.

They sell their program as a means to maximize government revenue. They are more than happy to deficit spend, stating "deficits don't matter." Finally, their rhetoric is fixed in the notion that government policy can improve individual economic well-being.

Reading between the lines of Mr. Limbaugh's columns one finds a statist par excellence.

Hal Donahue
scribbles, "You folks destroy education granted with the aid of liberals and then say see government can't do it. LOL Incompetence is no excuse you folks had time to change society and you did but only for the worse"

Please explain how conservatives destroy education. Please, further, explain how it is granted by liberals. I think I know the answer to that one. Simply hand them a diploma or degree and call it good. No matter whether anything is actually taught or learned. Your premise is that children are being deprived of an education by conservatives somehow interfering with the delivery of that education by liberals. Have another drink Hal.

Where's the data?
For an article about the need for conservatives to marshall the good arguments about why tax cuts increase revenue, I found it surprisingly short on data. After all, any talk show hack can talk out of their *ss. I'd prefer to look at numbers.
Reagan deserves credit for supporting Volker's efforts to defeat inflation, but his tax cuts did not lead to a boom in revenue. Here's some data about per capita real increases in government revenue:
1973-1979: 2.7%
1979-1990: 1.8%
1990-2000: 3.2%
2000-2007 (probable peak): approximately zero

While Reagan's tax cuts didn't devastate revenue, let's not pretend that we can have our cake and eat it too.

Doofass:
The states are broke, losing jobs, industries and poopulation. What does that tell you about liberal policies and taxation/

Nigeria?!?!
"Education is an essential element of national power."

So is economic prosperity. NEITHER is successfully provided by government.

"You folks destroy education granted with the aid of liberals and then say see government can't do it."

The government demonstrated it "can't do it" long before "conservatoves" did anything to make that happen.

"Incompetence is no excuse..."

A point liberals should consider very carefully. Republicans, as opposed to conservatives (only a moron believes the terms are synonymous) "had time to change society and ... did but only for the worse".

"Why not go to Nigeria they don't even provide protection... go for it big guy"

Why is it that liberals pretend (as if it weren't so monumentally stupid that there is no chance anyone would fall for such idiocy) that countries like Nigeria in any way resemble capitalism, free markets or conservative principles? Wait a few years, though. Nigeria is FINALLY implementing market-based reforms, curbing the rampant corruption (mostly facilitated by too much governmnetal interference and favoritism) and increasing security to quell the ethnic and religious strife. They aren't free market examples yet, but they're on the right path.

Red/Blue Urban/Rural
"are you denying that US public education through the 60s was adequate even outstanding in some places?"

In comparison to private schools or what could have been accomplished in a market driven environment, sure.

"Well except for the segragated southern schools where one was quite good and one quite bad."

Actually, neither were very good (and that is still a governmnet failure).

"Really then I will ask yet again why the blue not the red states are the richest, best educated, healthiest, etc"

Well, gee, could it possibly have anything to do with the fact that the two concepts are only very loosely related? If you rreasoning were sound then it would be possible to take the discussion to urban vs. rural (since urban populations are vastly more liberal than rural populations). Of course, urban populations are poorer, less healthy, more likely to have concentrated poverty...

Ender
"Date: Dec 19, 2008 - 10:37 AM EST Subject: @Hal:
...I would note, however, that prior to the point in time you mention, education in many ways was considered a local event - schools gained neighborhood pride, among other things. "

You have a point to some extent somewhere along the line people's attitude about education changed I want to call it the great dumbing. When I was in highschool I worked for a trucking company making excellent money. The older guys continually worried about me and my buddy leaving school for the money and literally threatened us with bodily harm if we did. Now I can sit in a restaurant or mall and hear parents say there is no way their kids need to go to school. An observation not certain the full meaning

"...As government intervention increased, local intervention decreased. And the fact that you had to mark your cutoff point at the beginning of the major rise of liberalism in the government is telling, as well."

The major rise of liberalism was right after WWII with the GI bill, high graduated income taxes, strong unions I put to you the cut off is the rise of conservatism Ronnie became governor in 1966

"...non-governmental schools do a better job of educating their students than governmental schools do. If you wish to disprove this statement, please provide specific proofs that I, and others on this site, may review."

I never provide proofs here they only get nitpicked as unacceptable even though from newspapers of record. You may be correct although I am not certain my kids went to public schools that were excellent I am not government educated

"...And excellent start of reusing proper punctuation, although I'd also focus on capitalization at the moment..."

LMAO why thank you but I am too busy getting ready for a radio show, decorating my tree and shoveling snow to do proper proof reading.

Doofass:
Our problem here at TH when you show up is shovelling through all the bullsh!t you put out.

Please...
"If I borrow 100 dollars and spend it...."

What does that analogy have to do with (a) anything Primus said, (b) undermining the argument in favor of tax cuts, (c) ANYTHING that happened during the Reagan years?

"[I]f you could show that spending it had far more value than my total cost to borrow and pay back the original 100 dollars."

That is the only justification - ever - and why government spending is always economically harmful - all of it (though especially bailouts and transfer payments).

"The tax revenue increases under Ronnie had far more to do with the deficit spending which created jobs out of thin air."

The statement is factually wrong. The Keynesian myth has been long debunked, Government spending CANNOT "create jobs". The increased revenue was the direct result of economic efficiencies related to reduced redistribution of wealth.

"However, the taxes those people paid NEVER approached the borrowing costs to pay for them, thus the deficits."

Actually, the long term economic benefits over the next two decades, whie not sufficent to pay for the reduced revenue in the short run, certainly came "close".

"I was there in the defense indistry. It was a MASSIVE waste of money."

That's your opinion. Actually, even Carter ramped up defense spending arguing that our defense forces had become too degraded. Meanwhile Of course, entitlement spending - mostly social security and HHS grew by an even greater margin.

"Ronnie was offered social cuts if he took defense cuts in his second term, he declined."

Pure fantasy.

F1etch
"Date: Dec 19, 2008 - 10:56 AM EST Nigeria?!?!
"Education is an essential element of national power."

So is economic prosperity. NEITHER is successfully provided by government."

Education was for years

"...government demonstrated it "can't do it" long before "conservatoves" did anything to make that happen..."

not so it was excellent and other nations in Europe and Asia do an excellent job providing education. Unless you mean we Americans are not capable of it..

"...Why not go to Nigeria they don't even provide protection... go for it big guy"

Why is it that liberals pretend (as if it weren't so monumentally stupid that there is no chance anyone would fall for such idiocy) that countries like Nigeria in any way resemble capitalism, free markets or conservative principles?... "

That is my point they are exactly what you get when you follow conservatism to its proper conclusion because it truly is misnamed it is social darwinism. You take all you can get and to heck with society as a whole. You provide your power, roads, defense forces, etc It is nice I guess if you are a top person...

"...Wait a few years, though. Nigeria is FINALLY implementing market-based reforms, curbing the rampant corruption (mostly facilitated by too much governmnetal interference and favoritism) and increasing security to quell the ethnic and religious strife. They aren't free market examples yet, but they're on the right path..."

LOL I will take that bet I have been hearing it for nearly a generation

F1etch
"Date: Dec 19, 2008 - 11:04 AM EST Red/Blue Urban/Rural
"...comparison to private schools or what could have been accomplished in a market driven environment, sure..."

where has it ever worked?

"...Actually, neither were very good (and that is still a governmnet failure)..."

certainly was

"...If you rreasoning were sound then it would be possible to take the discussion to urban vs. rural (since urban populations are vastly more liberal than rural populations). Of course, urban populations are poorer, less healthy, more likely to have concentrated poverty... "

LOL nice try urban populations are almost always wealthier not certain but reasonable certain healthier simply by access to care and concentrated poverty yes but rural areas usually have far more endemic poverty

Mark Twain Truisms
If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed. - Mark Twain

Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But, then I repeat myself. - Mark Twain

The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin. - Mark Twain

No man's life, liberty or property is safe while the legislature is in session. - Mark Twain

I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. - Will Rogers

What this country needs are more unemployed politicians. - Edward Langley

Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. - James Bovard

Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? - Thomas Jefferson

Most people are bothered by those passages of scripture they do not understand, but the passages that bother me are the ones I do understand. - Mark Twain

Maybe many of us Americans and more importantly the politicians and news media should go back in time and read some from the writers of days gone by when the media really was more unbiased and really believed in reporting the news and not worried about submitting an editorial or preparing to write a book.

Demand, not supply, is the problem
Supply-side economics has little to offer for
the mess we're in today.

There's a big difference between the recession today and the ones that Kennedy faced in 1960 and Reagan faced in 1980:

In those earlier recessions, business was having trouble expanding because of high taxation. Cutting taxes freed business up to expand and invest.

Today, that's not the problem. For example, Toyota had plans underway to expand business in America. They just announced they're abandoning those plans--NOT because their taxes suddenly got too high, but because consumers aren't buying many cars and trucks anymore.

We've heard the same story from many other businesses. None of them is complaining about high taxes. They're complaining that they don't have any customers.

And that's because consumers have seen the value of their 401(k) plans collapse, and they have seen the value of their homes collapse. They feel a lot poorer, and so they are cutting back on expenses.

So we really do need a demand-side stimulus right now, not a supply-side stimulus.

Nice try
"where has it ever worked?"

Private schools? Everywhere they've been tried. Market-based solutions? Ditto.

"LOL nice try urban populations are almost always wealthier..."

The statement is factually wrong. Urban areas are almost universally poorer. They tend to have higher collegiate education levels (which is why I did not include that in the response) because those going into agriculture tend to go directly into business rather than into higher education.

"...not certain but reasonable certain healthier simply by access to care..."

That statement is also false. An appropriate response might be that less healthy individuals concentrate where there are more care facilities to explain WHY the populations are less healthy, but it is still the case.

"...and concentrated poverty yes but rural areas usually have far more endemic poverty."

That statement is also false. The notable exception is Appalachia where the same types of governmental policies that have failed in the cities have devastated the region. Endemic poverty IS that concentration.

F1etch

"RealCon" is a victim of "zero-sum game" thinking.

If such thinking were true - we'd still have the same economy that existed at the founding of the country.

Reagan had to compromise on many social issue fronts to get what he wanted in defense, technology and his successful battle to win the Cold War.

Economic corrections
"Supply-side economics has little to offer for
the mess we're in today."

The notion that demand side stimulus works has been disproven.

"There's a big difference between the recession today and the ones that Kennedy faced in 1960 and Reagan faced in 1980."

No there isn't. The boom-and-bust cycle is created by manipulation of the money supply. Demand-side stimulus did not work in the wake of the Great Depression which was created by the same Fed mismanagement that caused this crisis. Tax cuts (even those that do not pay for themselves) are always stimulative inasmuch as they are less redistributive.

"Today, that's not the problem."

It flows from the false premise that the causes of the problem are different.

"And that's because consumers have seen the value of their 401(k) plans collapse, and they have seen the value of their homes collapse. They feel a lot poorer, and so they are cutting back on expenses."

That is true. Everyone is suffering from the effects of the burst bubble. But there's no recouping those costs and governmental spending for "stimulus" only makes matters worse.

Brilliant
Brilliant article!!

We have GOT to get the message to Republicans that they need to learn how to articulate Conservatism.

We have to demand they do it:
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/we-demand-true-conserva tive-leadership.html

F1etch, re: Hal

Somewhere along the line, Hal claims to have gotten a degree in economics.

While this may be factually true (although he offers no proof), whatever he learned has been permanently tainted by an advanced case of liberalism and its required partisanship.

His response will likely be another series of unsubstantiated postulations - and he will expect you and others to "take his word for it".

In short - Hal is little more than another in a long line of liberal trolls who infest this site just to "argue".

His mind is made up - don't confuse him with facts.

Good job, Mr. Limbaugh
Although I actually don't care whether Republicans or Democrats do this, I just hope SOMEONE wakes up. Party affiliation is much less important than ideological positions. If our leaders would just wake up and smell the truth, we would be in a world of less hurt.

Unfortunately, stupidity sells, and we have been in a stupefying spiral since Public Schools were introduced and Child Labor Laws went into effect. Therefore, because undereducated people want someone to represent them, they get a good chunk of the congress to themselves.

F1etch
"Date: Dec 19, 2008 - 11:51 AM EST Nice try
"where has it ever worked?"

Private schools? Everywhere they've been tried. Market-based solutions? Ditto. "

no, no what system has ever worked using only private schools anywhere in the world? Private schools tend to "cherry pick" students

"LOL nice try urban populations are almost always wealthier..."

The statement is factually wrong. Urban areas are almost universally poorer."

source and measurement?

"...and concentrated poverty yes but rural areas usually have far more endemic poverty."

That statement is also false. The notable exception is Appalachia where the ...have you looked at much of MS and LA?

A blind spot
I regularly enjoy David Limbaugh columns; I find him to be one of the most insightful pundits around. However, this line reveals a slight blind spot:

"But Keynesian-type government spending fails to stimulate the economy because it just substitutes one type of spending (government) for another (private-sector). In fact, such spending plans usually produce the negative effect of reducing incentives to produce because they subsidize leisure and unemployment and they are often funded out of growth-zapping tax increases."

Modern Keynesians do -not- suggest that the government can create jobs by taxing and spending. They consider this the great mistake of FDR. Their newest idea is that government CAN create jobs by *deficit* spending. Just consider what the world's currently most respected Keynsian, Paul Krugman, has been saying for the past few months!

This little misunderstanding is necessary, because many Supply-Siders, while holding admirably correct views on taxation and spending in general, still hold on to some of the Keynsian fallacies that "Supply Side" is a reaction to. This is, then, the blind spot: deficit spending will not create jobs because it represents a diversion of capital from the private sector, just like straight taxation! In other words, the government is outbidding the private sector for investment money, which otherwise would inevitably have created private sector jobs.

This is a significant error, and I believe that it accounts for the other error that Supply Siders make - the idea that government CAN "stimulate" the economy (as long as the money is given to the right people, and as long as it is deficit spending instead of through taxation).

addendum to above

However, what does make Supply Siders better than regular Keynsians is that they recognize the ability of the government to stimulate the economy by LOWERING TAXES on productive people, and that they tend to prefer this over government spending. For this reason, even though they have their problems, I believe that supply siders are still more or less on the side of the angels.



SteveL
You actually hit the nail on the head.

The truth is that both supply-side solutions and demand-side solutions work. They just work at solving different problems.

For us to insist that one technique will work to solve all economic problems is like telling a carpenter the only tool he can use is a hammer. The first time he tries to remove a screw, he's screwed.

Wwe're facing a demand-side recession today. For those who skipped or slept through Econ 101, Demand = CIEG.

C is for consumers, who are losing jobs, cutting back spending and having a hard time making ends meet. Not much help there.

I is investors, who have just lost 40% of their stock market holdings. The ones who still have money to spend are fearful due to the financial system's collapse. Not a lot of help there either.

E is for exports. Exports were actually keeping our economy afloat 12 - 18 months ago, especially since the 40% decline in the value of the dollar since 2000 made US goods cheaper overseas. But now that wehave exported our recession, demand for American goods is down. No help there.

G is for government, which is the spender of last resort. that's why economists on both the left and right are reaching consensus that government spending must be a part of the solution to restarting our economy.

GunnyG-Primus-RCSD-Others
The key is patience, watch a cat/wolf/etc getting ready to pounce at PRECISELY the right moment for MAXIMUM effect. When Baboon Hopey McChange’s Socialist Goat Tripe FAILS, land on him with Claws and Fangs EXTENDED!

To Ken
Sorry, the idea that Demand = C + I + E + G is a fallacy. The basic problem is that G does not have economic demand of its own, but only that which it takes from C, I, and E. Removing the veil of money for a moment, demand is created by supply - only if you produce a good or service do you have some value that you can trade for other goods and services. In general, G does not produce, but consumes, and in net balance, this is certainly the case. Therefore, G does not produce demand, in the strict economic sense.

And this is the basic fallacy of stimulus. The idea of stimulus is that G can, over the long term, create its own demand, feed that demand to the right people (depending on whether you are a "supply-sider" or a "keynsian"), and thus make aggregate demand and the economy grow.

Or alternately (and equivalently, if you think about it), G is seen as a "demand bank". It can give out this demand on leverage (deficit spending), and exact the cost later. The fallacy here is a bit more subtle - this would work for individuals and corporations, after all. But when the economy is taken as a whole, the problem is that there is only so much investment capital available at any time, and this diverts it. In other words, G is taking its demand from "I", not "in the future", but right now.

In other words, its ok to think about borrowing wealth when there is an "other" to borrow it from. For whole economies, there is no such "other" - even "deficit spending" then is taking the capital we have -right now-.

Distorting Reagan's tax record
Limbaugh rather conveniently fails to include the fact that Reagan RAISED taxes in 1982, 1984, and 1987. In fact his increase of payroll taxes was the largest in history to that date. All told Reagan's tax hikes amounted to 215 billion over 5 years. By way of contrast the Clinton increases amounted 285 billion over 5 years, not figuring in inflation.

Republican Leadership
Limbaugh has it right. One assumes most conservative in congress know that the country needs a massive dose of supply side intervention, rather than the big government demand side crap Obama and the Dems cloak in the rhetoric of failed Keynesian policy.

WHERE IN THE HELL IS THE REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP? WHY ARE THEY NOT AGGRESSIVELY POSTURING SUPPLY SIDE ECONOMICS TO BOOTSTRAP THE USA OUT OF THE ECONOMIC TROUGH?

COMMUNICATIONS INEPTITUDE WITHIN THE LEADERSHIP IS THE SINGLE BIGGEST PROBLEM IN THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT.

-Horse & Sparrow Economics doesn't work-
"You feed the horse enough oats and some will 'pass through' for the birds."

Horse & Sparrow, Supply-Side, Trickle-Down economic theory is completely erroneous!


Recovery will be quickest
if the government resists its natural impulse to do SOMETHING.

The economy is a complex system, and Dr. W Edwards Deming taught us that changing a system when the cause of variance isn't understood will only make matters worse. Economists don't understand the variances in the economy and as a consequence any change made to help the economy will make it worse.

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolong ed-Depression-5409.aspx is a press release from UCLA that asserts that the government caused the depression to last an additional 7 years. I don't know if it was 1, 2, 7 or whatever. I have great confidence that the government's tampering made matters worse.

Dr. Deming's illustrated the principle that tampering makes matters worse with a moving the funnel experiment. see http://archive.ite.journal.informs.org/Vol8No1/Olsen/

Pheebor, Good Point
To add to the case you built, do we have things such as iPods, HiDef TVs, or GPS because of demand? Nope. We didn't have them until some enterprising individual created these things and generated the demand through hard work. Jobs are created and consumers have more choice and higher quality products.

The fact is that the quality of life is improved by capital investment.

Ultimately propping up failed businesses or taking capital (usually investment) from the economy to spur demand has the long-term effect of slowing economic growth as it reduces the innovation that creates wealth in the first place.

elko.mike
"Date: Dec 19, 2008 - 5:14 PM EST Recovery will be quickest
if the government resists its natural impulse to do SOMETHING."

That is exactly what Hoover said and did LOL figures...

elko.mike
Just curious, but who is going to buy all those "things such as iPods, HiDef TVs, or GPS" if Americans are losing jobs or forced to take jobs that pay substantially less?

I totally understand the "supply side" line of thought, but at some point of diminished incomes..."If you build it they will buy" does not seem to be the total or logical answer to the problem.


education is a start
We need to take education back from the NEA and the democrat party talking heads in order to make real headway in teaching supply side economics. For one thing it is hard to make a democrat think when you hand him a check he didn't earn on his own and wonder where it came from. They look at anything coming from the government as free money. Total oblivious to the fact it is their own money being given back to them. Until we get government under control and not let politicians get involved in private business will we finally start slowing the growth of government. Demand for something for nothing does not make it right or lawful just because people want it to be.

talk about revision!
There is no rational comparison of the economy of the eighties and to that of today.
After every downturn comes an upturn. Newtonian physics applied to economics. After every war there is a debt to be paid. Britain's war debt was to let the colonies go. France's war debt was to sell Louisiana. Americas Viet Nam war debt was paid by the economy in the late 70s and early 80s. Had Reagan been elected in 1976 he would not have done so well. Imagine what would have happened if he had increased military spending WHILE paying for Viet Nam. He also had the advantage of Congressional overmanagement and while Carter tried to deal with the Iranians. In short Reagan succeeded because of what came before, not in spite of it.
Obamas success or failure is not connected so much to his intentions or preferences last year but how he plays the hand dealt today. There are those who will always find fault , no matter how things go. Today it is fashionable for the conservatives to see that the Bush admin has not been up to standard on so many fronts. Yet they still speak of it so softly so not to offend, reserving the negative energy for any miss que by the incoming President. What a way to make a living. What noble lives.

conservative vs rino republicans
David; We, as conservatives, must make sure that this never happen again. The rino republicans tried to destroy the republican party, in order to save it. Save it from whom, why from the conservatives, of course. These rinos aren't interested in the republican party, they are interested in power. And they will say anything or do anything to do damage to the conservatives. According to these rinos, we conservatives are only usefull during elections. After that, we must be silent, but give them our money, of course. We must ask more questions to our politicians that want our votes. We must all be more discriminating. On to the 2010 elections.

conservative vs rino republicans
David; We, as conservatives, must make sure that this never happen again. The rino republicans tried to destroy the republican party, in order to save it. Save it from whom, why from the conservatives, of course. These rinos aren't interested in the republican party, they are interested in power. And they will say anything or do anything to do damage to the conservatives. According to these rinos, we conservatives are only usefull during elections. After that, we must be silent, but give them our money, of course. We must ask more questions to our politicians that want our votes. We must all be more discriminating. On to the 2010 elections.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.