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Tuesday, July 01, 2008
David Limbaugh :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama's Leftist Armies
by David Limbaugh
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Be afraid; be very afraid. If you think Barack Obama is arrogant and leftist, you ought to see those he will have to cater to if elected -- and, according to them, even to get elected in the first place.

These leftist "netroots" are none too pleased with Obama's feint to the center the past few weeks, his "capitulation" on retroactive immunity for telecoms for cooperating with the government to monitor terrorist communications, his alleged disagreement with the Supreme Court for invalidating the death penalty for child rapists, and his flip-flop on the D.C. handgun case.

They are abuzz about the messiah's apparent abandonment of their orthodoxy. Interestingly, though, not many of the complainers really believe Obama has left them. Like Obama's longtime pastor, Jeremiah Wright, they realize Obama is quite willing to mask his inner self to get elected. But many are disgusted that he's even playing the game.

One blogger at The Huffington Post writes: "Sen. Barack Obama is risking his brand as a political reformer, according to reports today in the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post. In recent weeks, he has moderated or changed positions on a number of politically-charged issues, leading to criticism from demoralized Democratic activists."

Will Marshall, president of the Progressive Policy Institute, added, "I've been struck by the speed and decisiveness of his move to the center."

But these leftist types are so puffed up in their certainty that liberalism rules today that they think even as a matter of electoral strategy Obama would be better off coming all the way out of the closet and confessing his far-left propensities. They think Obama can safely blow off swing voters because just energizing the leftist base will increase turnout enough to ease him to victory. They even believe, in the words of the same Huffington Post blogger, his shift to the center could jeopardize his chances by "depressing the enthusiasm of the voters who clinched the nomination for him."

And what do these leftist sweethearts have in store for us if Obama prevails? Hint: It's not just Republicans who should be worried. If they have their way, the Obama leftists will purge from the Democratic ranks conservative, or blue-dog Democrats, who are just getting in the way.

Marshall Grossman tells us: "When the Republican bogeymen and bogeywomen are gone -- in just a few short, summer months -- the political scene will shift. The blue dogs will be the new Republicans and we, the people, will hold the newly elected feet to the fire. Incumbent and unresponsive conservative Democrats will have to begin looking over their left shoulders."

Jason Rosenbaum writes: "Once Obama is elected, it's war. November is just the beginning." Rosenbaum will "work to rid Congress of conservative, Blue and Bush Dog Democrats, and build up long-term progressive infrastructure." (Are you self-professed conservative Democrats paying attention?)

What this all means, at the very least, is that voters need to keep their eye on the big ball here -- and the big ball is not Obama's political cynicism, which far too many will dismiss as acceptable Nixonian politics, engaged in by every politician. The big ball is Obama's real leftism -- and its potentially devastating consequences for the country.

Among those potential consequences, according to Rosenbaum and Grossman, are, "President Obama will start sending non-apocalyptic judicial nominees to Senate confirmation," like Justice Ginsburg, no doubt, and "the Department of Justice will once again be populated by folks who have read the Constitution," meaning those leftist lawyer types more concerned with al-Qaida's "constitutional rights" than yours or mine.

Further, "Democrats will be more likely to pass progressive legislation : ending the war," meaning surrender; providing "health care for all Americans," meaning poorer quality health care and long waiting lines for all but the very rich; causing "a renewed investment in our economy," meaning at some point, only about the top 40 percent of income earners will pay income tax at all; and bringing about "a renewed investment in green energy," meaning, to them, a radical assault on our economy in the name of the global warming hoax -- in deference to the pantheistic devaluation of the dignity of human beings that drives it.

Time will tell if Obama is as leftist as his voting record and past associations would indicate, but many of those most passionate about him seem rather sanguine about it.

So let's not just focus on Obama's increasingly evident character flaws, but the catastrophic restructuring he likely has in store for this nation and its institutions.

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About The Author
David Limbaugh, brother of radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, is an expert in law and politics and author of Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today's Democratic Party.
 
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They feel strong enough
To tell who they really are.

quote:
One popular community group on the Illinois senator's official MyObama website calls itself "Marxists/Socialists/Communists for Obama."

Here is who the democrats are running, an outright Marxist

And how could the GOP have stopped
this from happening?

I say by staying true to the limited government principles that put them in power in congress in 1994, and in the POTUS in 1980, 1984, 1988, and 2000.

Bush got re-elected because people didn't trust Kerry on national defense, but that reason alone won't cut it any more.

The GOP was rejected in 2006 largely because they became the Democrat-Lite party - big spending, entitlement-passing, big-government supporting pigs.

How to correct the course? Voting in the liberal McCain will only reinforce the GOP's slide to the left.

Let us believers in limited government work to elect the most conservative senators possible (to weather the Obama storm) but withhold our support and votes from McCain. Vote for the Libertarian, Constitutional or whatever other limited government 3rd party for POTUS.

History shows that the GOP tends to grow a pair and effectively fight Democrat POTUSs, while accepting whatever liberal policies a Republican POTUS wants enacted.

McCain is a better man than Obama, but the country would end up more socialist under McCain.

His record speaks for itself
There is no question where this Marxist-socialist stands on all the issues. He's proven that he is the most left wing liberal by his voting record in Illinois and during his short time in the senate. If he should be elected along with a lock step democrat house and senate, our American way of life will come to an end post-haste. It is doubtful that we can recover this time the way we were able to do after that old fool Carter and his democrat henchmen came so close to destroying us.

I see a very dark future
For America.
I can see an out right rebellion in store.
I can see civil disobedience like has not been seen since the Civil War.

We have no choice for leadership for America.
We have one extremist socialist communist in BO.
And a globalist Fabian Socialist the republicans are running.

I will not vote either party and will vote the Constitution Party.

We still have a choice people, use it while you can.

More Socialist Under
the erratic McCain, and irretrievably Marxist under Obama, with Democrats dominating both houses. I'm looking for a place to run, but I haven't found one. I wouldn't feel good about abandoning my grandkids anyway.

Chris and Talent Scout
Please read Dennis Prager's recent article. The link is: http://www.townhall.com/columnists/DennisPrager/2008/07/01 /why_i_support_john_mccain

Both of you sound like two little children that have had their feelings hurt and are picking up their ball and going home.

If either of you are conservatives who loved and supported President Reagan, you must do what he always did -- support the nominee of the party. You can search out everything he said before he actually became President. He would have done nothing less.

Please grow up, and once again, read Prager's article.

Obama isn't a Marxist; he's an Obamian
David has it spot-on. Obama is the ultimate narcissist and probably diagnosibly megalomaniac. If he is coronated, I mean, elected, he will leave this country unrecognizable. Put a clothespin on your nose, squint your eyes, cover your ears and sing la-la-la-la like PeeWee, and VOTE FOR McCAIN!!

Kimberly writes:
What a fool believes is anything Obama says, which I guess makes you one very large fool.

Pat, I just posted to Prager's article.
Please check out my core reasoning at the end of the post.

Like Reagan, I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

I don 't know about you, but I am impatient with those Republicans who after the last election rushed into print saying, "We must broaden the base of our party" -- when what they meant was to fuzz up and blur even more the differences between ourselves and our opponents.

A political party cannot be all things to all people. It must represent certain fundamental beliefs which must not be compromised to political expediency, or simply to swell its numbers.

I do not believe I have proposed anything that is contrary to what has been considered Republican principle. It is at the same time the very basis of conservatism. It is time to reassert that principle and raise it to full view. And if there are those who cannot subscribe to these principles, then let them go their way.

This is not the time for political fun and games. This is the time for a new beginning.

Take a hike moron
Pat 12:44 EST
Subject: Chris and Talent Scout


Please grow up, and once again, read Prager's article.
---
You read this moron
I do my thinking and you and Prager can do yours.

And until I ask for your advice, shut up talking to me.

Screw the republican party, you and McCain too.
Thats double for the democrats

Obama is a Marxist
He has belonged to every left wing extremist group found in and around Chicago.

He is pure marxist, and the communists themselves know it too.
You morons had best wake up

Obama the Marxist
Obama site urges: 'Revolution' against U.S. 'oppressive' regime
Marxists, socialists, communists form group to plot on official campaign blog


http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/group/MarxistsSoci alistsCommunistsforObama

Read it for yourself

He is a communist loving pig

David, your brother spends
a lot of air time criticizing McCain. You should try it too. It's quite cathartic for believers in limited government.

Chris...
You are wrong...pure and simple. Obamabots are using this same strategy - pretending to be far right conservatives...I believe conservatives are true patriots with strong love of country...they may not agree with McCain, but they know the alternative is a betrayal of our country and all it stands for...it's that important...from the Supremes to drilling...it's that important.

It's Wilsonian, not Nixonian

As a true progressive, Obama is a disciple of the political doctrine of pragmatism.

Progressives believe it is acceptable to say or do whatever is necessary to obtain power.

In progressivism, there is no such thing as falsehood or truth. Sometimes, telling lie is vital and sometimes telling the truth is too harmful.

But Wilson, a Democrat, was the first president to be a pragmatist who routinely lied and withheld the truth to accomplish what he wanted and he lied 1,000 times more than Nixon.


Leftie Armies up his Sleevies

Obama is reluctant to show just how far left his politics really are.

But his BFFs are not afraid: they have been American haters since the 60s and 70s, when they tried to destroy the USA by rioting in the streets.

Now, they are trying to destroy it like termites inside the ship of state, eating holes from the inside.

If Mr. Obama is not aware of these Lefties' intentions, then he is stupider than even Michele thinks he is.

But I suspect that he does know, and knows exactly what the Lefties intend for this country.

A challenge for Robin:
Or anyone else who think I should hold my nose and vote McCain: Name a historical example of a party moving left, then back right (to smaller government) without first getting whipped at the ballot box. If you can do that, I'll think about voting McCain instead of Bob Barr or Chuck Baldwin.


And Robin, it sounds like you're accusing me of being a false patriot, hating my country, and/or being an Obamabot. Were you? You might want to check out my posts here and on today's Prager column before you answer that.

Not to Worry, Leftists
Don't worry all you pitiful leftists out there criticizing Obama's trek to the center. The Messiah is taking his orders from Gyorgy Soros just to get elected. He is no different from a Clinton...he will do anything, say anything to win, except when it's necessary to send out his deacons like Wesley Clark to say it for him so he can pretend to be nice. How long will it be before he says Wes Clark isn't the man he always knew him to be so he can temporarily ditch him for doing what he was told to do?? Ole Wes is a fool. Liar, Liar ears on fire.

Bad Use of History
Those of you who want to see the Republicans trounced so the party can "go back to its roots" might want to think about more than just recent political history (i.e. 1994). The Whig Party fell apart because their base stayed home. The Bull Moose Party took votes away from Taft and the country was saddled with the Income Tax and Populist politics. Just because you don't vote for McCain doesn't mean there will be some kind of revelation in the minds of the public after Obama's had two years to impliment his ideology with a complicit Congress. Heck, even with a Republican Congress Obama could still find ways to pass his policies. Reagan did it, Wilson did it, Roosevelt did it, Lincoln did it, so why can't Obama? The media is in his corner, the net is infested with liberal blogs, and his money machine is far better oiled than the GOP's. Go ahead, vote or Barr or stay home, but don't expect to recognize your country in 8 years.

Obama’s success undercut affirmative act

If Obama wins is this the end of affimative action?

NPR-Barack Obama’s political success might claim an unintended victim: affirmative action, a much-debated policy he supports.

Already weakened by several court rulings and state referendums, affirmative action now confronts a challenge to its very reason for existing. If Americans make a black person the leading contender for president, as nationwide polls suggest, how can racial prejudice be so prevalent and potent that it justifies special efforts to place minorities in coveted jobs and schools?

“The primary rationale for affirmative action is that America is institutionally racist and institutionally sexist,” said Ward Connerly, the leader of state-by-state efforts to end what he and others consider policies of reverse discrimination. “That rationale is undercut in a major way when you look at the success of Senator Clinton and Senator Obama.” Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York battled Obama to the end of the Democratic primary process.

Other critics of affirmative action agree. “Obama is further evidence that the great majority of Americans reject discrimination, reject prejudice,” said Todd F. Gaziano, a scholar at the conservative Heritage Foundation and a member of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights.

read more

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/might-obamas-succe ss-undercut-affirmative-action

Tantrums R Us?
I am really tired of the endless tantrums of the pouting proles who believe that if we hold our breath until we turn blue, somehow the country will not only give us everything we are screaming for, but there will be no price to pay. Go ahead and throw your continuing tantrums with the name calling and flailing and toddler like reasoning -- and when Obama stands in the ruins of your childs school as another school and daycare blows up in the town or on the street next to where you live, you can watch the firemen carry your dead toddler out of the ruins and tell that child that you considered the sacrifice of not only that child but all children to terrorism a fair payment to punish John *McLame* at the polls.

Methinks your sniveling pout will look awfully small to you when the bombs start going off in your neighbourhood.

Magical thinking is childish, and a belief that destroying the country to get back at your parents is asinine.

For the love of your country and all who live therein, stop it.

Thank you Charles!
Charles, you are one of the only posters in what I call the "pro-nose-holder" crowd who has attempted to answer us "anti-nose-holders" with substance instead of name calling.

Even if I disagree with you, I greatly appreciate your willingness to get into the issues.

The Whig Party needed to fall apart. But your analysis of Teddy vs Taft giving us the income tax intrigues me (I support the FairTax). I am going to study that history and get back with you.

I've quit holding my nose
This is going to be my third election in which I am not voting for one candidate because they are not the other guy.
The last time I did that I voted for Ronald Reagan (twice).
For those who warn of the dire consequences of BHO being in office, I would point to the bad policies and appointments that have taken place under either Bush and Clinton (plenty of cross over Rs who said "It can't get any worse".)
As stated earlier, if we continue to accept leftists wearing R clothing instead of conservatives we will slouch towards Gomorah but we will get there just the same.

Monkey Girl
Well, you missed being first and it stil didn't stop your bug-sized brain from including the typical spew of "RW this and McSame" that. You are the tool if you believe Obama isn't going to ruin your already commie country taxed asss. CT, MA, NY is full of Commies. They shouldn't even call it the North East anymore. It's full of hateful, depressed people who could do better, but sit around waiting for the gov't to step in. Look around you, Monkey. The state I grew up in is fast approaching ruin. And with more leftist policy, it's going down that much faster.

AudiR10
Might have a more pursuasive argument if you didn't try and resort to fear mongering to make your point.
Also, if your name weren't an apparent reflection of a possession (possible make up for a phusical short coming?) instead of a principal, accomplishment, or just a name.

I still will not vote McLame.

Charles: EXCELLENT! Thank you !

There are those who maintain that they won't vote for McCain because when the country falls apart, at least there will be a president with a "D" after his name, rather than an "R."

The damage that Carter did during his four years will be nothing compared to what the Marxist Obama and his henchmen do.

What I believe they DON'T understand is that the end result of that will be NO recovery.

Come 2012, the "election" will be "Obama: Yes or No."

who's being childish?
AudiR10 says "vote for McCain or your children will die!"

And you're calling me childish?

I've been over and over and over the substance of this. Obama himself is worse than McCain, but we are electing a President who has to work with a congress, not a king.

I am not trying to punish or get back at anyone. I think a McCain presidency will leave the USA more socialist than an Obama presidency because of the dynamic with congress, so at this point I plan to vote for neither of them.

If you want to convince me to vote for McCain, try answering the substance of my problems with him instead of calling me names. Check out my posts under Prager's column for more details.

Anne, no Reagan without Carter.
As for the destruction of the country, the USA has been on the road to destruction for most of its history - many in power have ignored the constitution.

If we want to save it, we have got to get a people in power that believe in the constitution and are willing to stand up for it. McCain is clearly NOT that person.

Reagan and the Gingrich of 1994-1997 did as good a job as anyone. They came into power after leftward lurches by the GOP resulted in electoral defeats.

Like it or not, we're GOING to get

McCain or Obama....

Burt Prelutsky wrote,
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/BurtPrelutsky/2008/06/27 /tweedle-dee_and_tweedle-dumb

"Can anybody actually picture Barack Obama, a man born to be a left-wing social worker, as commander-in-chief?"

And now we have that liberal, failed army moron, Wesley Clark, saying that McCain does not have any "command" experience to be POTUS!

"Keeping America safe is simply not on Obama’s to-do list."

Which, btw, is the PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY of the POTUS and the Fed. Govt.



Democrat's Left Flank
Some say Barack Hussein Obama is listing toward the center. Rubbish. He is a leftist today ,will be a leftist tomorrow and forevermore. He has found the atr of 'pap for the people'.

He will say one thing today to one audience and tomorrow the reverse to another audience. He just hopes the same people don't hear both messages.If they do,the news media will 'put lipstick on that pig'.

They have started the destruction of John McCain. I hope he is prepared for the onslaught.He should stop keeping his temper in check,come out swinging and may the best man win.




Evidence, please
David's right, BHO SCOTUS nominees will be a disaster, assuming he gets to make any. And this seems to be the key issue for "pro-nose-holder" types, since it comes up in every defense of the presumptive GOP nominee.

Now, someone, please, point me to the evidence that McCain's would be better? Evidence as in, "In Year X, McCain did Y which shows that his SCOTUS nominees will be better." NOTE: *did* is not the same thing as *said*.



Things to Consider
1) I've heard the "No Reagan without Carter" thing before. The damage Carter did outweighs the good of Reagan, IMHO. Look at what we're facing with nearly-nuclear Iran and North Korea bullying and blackmailing their way through history. I don't know if we can afford another such trade-off.

2) Michelle Obama is worried that someone will try to hurt her husband. She should be worried, but not about us conservatives. Obama attracts unstable hero-worshippers, and that type can turn right nasty when you let them down.

Obama Nation = Abomonation
What would an Obama Nation look like?

Since I believe that Barak is merely a foot soldier in George Soros' army, and that Michele is his captain, I fear for my country when the bafoon army takes over.

chris @8:16AM:"no Reagan without Carter.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Nice little catch phrase though...

However, if you really knew what Obama and the demo party has in store (start with reading Limbaugh's column again) you'll see exactly what will happen if Marxist Obama is elected.

And, you actually believe that we'll end up more a Socialist country if McCain is elected?

Boggles the rational mind!

So, if Marxist Obama gets elected, and by year's end, 2010 we are neck deep in SOCIALIZED Health Care, (for starters) and "redistribution of wealth" is how we're all living (right out of the Marxist Hand Book) you'll be happy that McCain wasn't elected???

And you can rest assured that IF Marxist Obama is elected, there will BE NO return of the Conservative Party. As I said above, the next elected will be "Obama: Yes or No."


Summed up
This article can be summed up by saying that Obama is Clinton Dark.

AudiR10
As I've said before, most of the time I tend to agree with your positions, but your 7:37 AM post today is not your finest hour.

I wonder how many folks thought our Founding Fathers were "toddlers" having "temper tantrums".

Sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better.

This may well be one of those times.

Anne
No Reagan without Carter

I believe that one myself.

Reasoning: The country just got out of Nixon and Watergate and thought the Republicans were corrupt as can be yada yada. Carter came in as the honest democrat, yet he tried so many socialist policies and boggled so many foreign policies that the country forced the democrats out. What if a more moderate democrat had been in there? Would people have strayed from the democratic party so willingly? I think not. Reagan came in and people were tired of Carter and hence Reagan took advantage.

I believe Obama can do the same. If McCain comes in he will slowly bring us socialism, but Obama will throw it all out the window and push hardcore for socialism. It comes back to Carter. Had be been more moderate would Reagan been elected? America is right-center and after 4 years I think they will throw the democrats out once again. McCain? Well, we just keep sliding left then.

Primus writes: "Sometimes things have to

get worse before they can get better."

Problem is, the Marxist Obama kind of worse is Marxism, and there will be no getting better from that!


Frog in water
America was a frog in water during Carter and Carter turned up the heat too fast and we jumped out. Again we are a frog in water, but this time we still have a choice. Do we want to turn up the heat slightly? Or do we want to turn it up fast? If you slowly warm water to boil a frog it will eventually die. If you quickly turn up the heat or simply throw a frog into hot water, it will jump out. We need America to jump out. If we vote McCain we will have another left move by the Republicans in 4 years and be faced with this exact choice. Somewhere along the line you will have to vote 3rd party because success will never change and until we FORCE the Republican party to fail, they will not change. When are you going to choose to stop supporting them? Where do you draw the line?

I have drawn that line this election. It is better to have the population right of center than left of center when giving the democrats control. If we wait another 4-8 years the population will have shifted more left and it will be harder to bring us back to capitalism.

Where will you draw the line?

Anne
I guess we've finally found an issue in which we disagree.

One of the things most are missing with the arguments "chris" brought up are the dynamics within Congress.

Remember - NOTHING happens without Congress.

Congressional Republicans will support McCain's agenda by default - which is decidedly NOT conservative. But they will fight tooth & nail against an Obama agenda (historically speaking).

Real conservatism has a fighting chance of a rebound in two years - and for sure in four, but not if McCain becomes POTUS.

Do not despair, though. Despite my though, McCain will be elected. Obama is unelectable.

Obama says he's a uniter
Obama says he is a uniter of Blue states and Red states but the reality is he is a uniter of Socialists, Communists and Marxists. I hope the American people wakeup to the fact that he does not share their mainstream values.

CKHustler writes: "No Reagan
without Carter...."

Prager writes....
"Moreover, the argument that Americans will have a conservative epiphany after four years of an Obama presidency is predicated on America being greatly damaged by his policies. What kind of mindset welcomes such damage to the country it loves for the sake of potentially gaining politically after the damage is done? Is it, for example, really worth a considerably weakened economy (which Barack Obama's tax and other economic policies would likely lead to), with its widespread suffering and unforeseeable social and political consequences, just to -- hopefully -- get a conservative into the White House four or eight years later?"

You willing to take a chance of the 2012 election of "Obama: Yes or No?"

I'm confused
>The Messiah is taking his orders from Gyorgy Soros just to get elected.<

Why would George Soros, a lifelong committed capitalist, support Obama if he is a Marxist?

Other than some cryptic out of context rhetoric, where is the evidence that Obama is a Marxist?

It's inherently dishonest to apply labels for the sake of emotionalism, a trait generally reserved for liberals, but more and more becoming the domain the new conservative.


the only change that...
Obama has planned is full speed ahead Socialism/Marxism.

This has always been the Left's agenda but they have been a patient lot, working like the proverbial turtle racing at a slow and steady pace.

Obama is like the proverbial rabbit in that same race. I am hoping that it is bad timing for the rabbit and that the American people are not sufficiently brainwashed to fall for Obama's brand of change. His message is not about change itself but about the Left getting impatient to reach their ultimate goal.

Obama is the empty suit Liberals have installed as their mouth piece, but he may still have a little too much independent thought for them to be able to control his own personal agendas and most certainly Michell's, don't think anyone will be controlling her.

They speak of his move to center? Funny but he isn't even registering on my radar yet. So the Left must be further Left than I thought.

Fairness=Socialism
During one of the debates, a moderator pointed out to Obama that when taxes are cut, government revenues grow. His response indicated that he knew this to be true, but wouldn't admit it. Instead, he said that there was an issue of "fairness" involved. Be afraid. Be very afraid. Indeed.

Anne
It becomes a question of what damage we are talking about. If hitting rock bottom in 4-8 short years keeps us a capitalistic country, I am willing. If voting McCain is a short term gain while also moving our country left by moving the republican party left and essentially leading to socialism, I am not willing. If the Republican party moves left, when will you stop supporting them? When is enough enough? If we elect McCain, that means there will be no candidate in 4 years that is right of McCain and once again we hold our noses. Then in 8 years the Republicans see people have moved left and we get another like McCain and we hold our noses. It inevitably leads to socialism and that is unacceptable.

The Frog scenario is true...
but another one keeps coming to mind. Jumping out of the frying pan and straight into the fire.
Both good homilies but which one applies this time around?

I think that the frying pan (McCain) may offer more opportunity for a vigilant and outspoken people to control the Maverick by constant communication with our Congressmen than having to go straight into the fire (Obama).

I never thought I would be saying this but the more I see and listen to Obama the more dangerous I think he is. I don't want to chance the irreparable damage he might do.

Pancho
Read Obamas full platform PDF. It is very long, but once you do, come back and say he isn't a marxist. I have read 12 of 15 parts and saw that his vision of America is 9 of the 10 planks of Karl Marx.

Obama's Patriotism
Regarding the Senator's Patriotism, I hope you will consider this:
http://zachjonesishome.wordpress.com/as-a-veteran-my-heart- sinks/
As a Veteran, my heart sinks every time I see this photo and think that this man may become President of the United States and be in charge of our military.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Be afraid. Be very afraid. And Vote Republican.

Is fear all the Republicans have to offer? David Limbaugh believes so. While fear worked in 2004, the norm in America is to vote for the hopeful optimistic candidate (like Reagan) and not the one who calls out in fear.

Chris and Talent Scout
You guys are preaching to the Choir. I have not heard a single person that thinks much of McCain. But I don't believe in cutting off my nose to spite my face. When I think of McCain vrs Che Obama, I think of long lasting effects such as The Supreme Court. I also think of our Troops and our current situation in sandland. Che Obama can cause a lot more damage than the RINO McCain. In the mean time, we should start rebuilding our party. I've read great post by both of you and I respect your side of the argument, I just can't agree. I plan to hold my nose and vote for McCain. The very best I can expect is a lot of infighting and not much getting done over the next four years. Che Obama must not ever be our president!

Hustler & Primus: There in is the

problem... IF, God forbid, Marxist Obama is elected, there WILL BE NO RECOVERY!

There WILL BE NO CHANCE to have a Conservative Party emerge.

It won't be "rock bottom" it will be a totally different country.

And the domestic issues are only part of it. Marxist Obama will have our troops withdrawing from the ME before he leaves the inaugural podium, and put us in worse danger than we've ever been in before.

There IS NO COMPARISON between Carter and Marxist Obama. Carter was simply inept, Marxist Obama is dangerous and will bring our country down!

THE MAKING OF OBAMA

.....Obama's indoctrination began with his radical atheist/marxist mother and his muslim step dad ...since then all his friends and associates have been radical anti-white (Trinity Church) or anti-American (Ayres) Leftists ...

.....If Lenin could have chosen a Manchurian candidate to take down America from the White House ...he could not have done better than Obama .....COLOSSUS

Limbaugh's hyperbole
Limbaugh, like many conservatives, loves to make his opponents seem far more formidable than they are. Obama's "armies" consist of a corporal's guard of 60s radicals, who have no support to speak of anywhere but in their own minds. Even at its peak of visibility, SDS was an organization that could hold its meetings in a janitor's closet. Yes, they made lots of noise and talked the talk of revolution, but very few did anything more than antagonize their parents and get photographed being arrested. If Obama wins, he will have a stable of liberal Democrats to choose from for his various appointments, and none of them will be drawn from the folks Limbaugh mentions. Conservatives love to think that their enemies are both numerous and powerful; SDS was never a threat to the security of our country.

GeorgiaGal
Wow. You've really swallowed the hook, haven't you?

If Obama were to somehow pull off a miracle and win this election, the only thing we have left to "hope" for is that we still have some "change" left in our pockets should his policies be enacted.

Reagan was hopeful & optimistic because he believed in the greatness of individual citizens if the government got out of the way. He had a clear-cut agenda that was difficult to parse, let alone dispute.

Obama is the diametrical opposite.

Anne
That is a matter of opinion. I believe the American people will not stand for open socialism. There in lies our differences. I believe our country can bounce back from Obama, and you don't. I understand your side perfectly, but I think that the road you follow leads to socialism every time.

For all I am saying, I still believe McCain will win because Obama is simply unelectable, but I will be voting for the candidate that supports the issues I care about most.

I Can't Believe They Ate The Whole Thing
In addition to being a true Socialist/Marxist, Obama is a foot soldier (community organizer?) for the corrupt Chicago political machine…do you think he would have gotten this far without a huge push from important politicians/democrats whose life-long ambition is to have a lackey in the White House? Do you reallyh believe he would have a free hand in appointments made to important positions? Soros and the other wealthy Socialist/Marxist proponents and dupes will give him a financial push to position him to conduct the most aggressive campaign of lies and half-truths we have ever seen. Those idealists and monkeys who have no practical living experiences like rearing children, paying a mortgage, and being politically active enough to become familiar with the way our economy and national security systems function, will vote for him simply because they will believe his empty promises…and to have his big-mouthed racist wife in the White House is almost more than a lot of us can imagine in our worse nightmares. Better to elect someone with whom you agree 80% of the time than someone with whom you disagree 100% of the time. The simple truth is that if Obama wins, we all lose…quelle dommage!

Ignore them? I wish.
Gestell, exercising his unquenchable urge to say the wrong thing, informs us that 60s radicals are harmless:

"Limbaugh, like many conservatives, loves to make his opponents seem far more formidable than they are. Obama's "armies" consist of a corporal's guard of 60s radicals, who have no support to speak of anywhere but in their own minds. Even at its peak of visibility, SDS was an organization that could hold its meetings in a janitor's closet. Yes, they made lots of noise and talked the talk of revolution, but very few did anything more than antagonize their parents and get photographed being arrested. "

Except, their "irrelevant" voices in the Democratic party produced a primary season in which all three major candidates attempted to outdo each other by leaning ever farther to the left. How did they do that, pray tell, with "no support to speak of anywhere but in their own minds?"

These same 60s leftovers are the reason our schools lie to our children about the Pilgrims, American Presidents, about the greatness of Western Civilization, and global climate change. How did they manage that, with "no support to speak of?"

These same 60s leftovers form roughly 50% of college faculty in nearly every major American university. They control the biased filth on television, in movies, in advertising, and in pop music. Four of the 9 Supreme Court justices appear to think just like them.

It's typical of the left to somehow pretend Western civilization isn't crumbling, and to pretend that they're not the cause of it. I understand your need to deny the destruction you're wreaking. But you're wrong. They have influence, way, WAY too much of it.

And Limbaugh's correct -- they're tyrants, and will stomp out our liberties.

(Unrelated to this topic, please visit my political blog, "Plumb Bob Blog: Squaring the Culture," at http://www.plumbbobblog.com.)

Anne
Do you remember what happened when the Clintons tried to enact Hillarycare in 1993?

Do you remember the outrage just last year when it looked as though amnesty was a "done deal"? Even Democrats started screaming "no mas!".

You are assigning WAY too much power to the Presidency.

Besides - as I've said ad nauseum, Obama is unelectable. No matter what the so-called "polls" are now saying, there is still a large minority of voters on BOTH SIDES of the aisle who likely wouldn't vote for a minority even if he or she were a Republican. It is far less likely with a candidate who spent the last 20 years in a black theology church and the last two of his three Senate years voting "present".

Relax, my friend.

Democrats and fear
Georgia Gal offers us this, right out of the DNC Playbook:

" Be afraid. Be very afraid. And Vote Republican.

Is fear all the Republicans have to offer?"

GG, those who favor stifling the most ennobling, poverty-erasing economy in the history of the world at the behest of the United Nations because we will DESTROY THE PLANET if we don't, have forfeited the right to complain about the fear-mongering of others.

(Unrelated to this topic, please visit my political blog, "Plumb Bob Blog: Squaring the Culture," at http://www.plumbbobblog.com. Click on my nickname and follow the links on my townhall blog. Thanks.)

PANCHO
Soros has been allowed to set up his Open Society Foundation unmolested by Communist governments throughout the world, including China. If his organization were counterthetical to their ideologies, would his political "foundation" have been allowed into those countries? Doubtful?

Bill Ayers (Weatherman terrorist) was highly instrumental in launching BO's state Senate bid. Ayers continuing marxist views regarding education are well documented in Chicago. BO was his employee for a time.

Want more: http://www.usasurvival.org/ck05.22.08.html


“Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company.” - George Washington



Primus: I hope you & Hustler are right!

I really, really, really do!!!!

"Do you remember what happened when the Clintons tried to enact Hillarycare in 1993?"

Yes, I do remember, but things are a bit different now. Congress-D, has a socialist mind set, and ready to roll with it.

Remember ol' Maxine Waters' little comment at the hearing with the oil execs.? Ready for the gov't. to take over the oil companies.

"You are assigning WAY too much power to the Presidency."

Don't think so. As Prager said, Obama is different from Clinton... Whole new set of rules if Marxist Obama is elected.

The problem is, even if Marxist Obama is supposedly "unelectable" he will be elected if too many people either "don't vote" or "vote for a third party... Barr?"




It seems
that everyone (conservative that is) has differing opinions regarding McCain. However,
among those posting against him, there are those that seem to think he will be a two termer. No one is considering his age, and relative health, given the torture he endured for 5 years. I'm not being ghoulish but while his mother is an active sharp 95 yr. old, there's nothing saying he will be as active/sharp after four years in the most
grueling occupation in the world. It killed
Woodrow Wilson by degrees. He could surprise
all of us, and be better than we expect especially if his former friends and allies start attacking him, I don't think he suffers
attacks lightly and is known to hold grudges.
Grudges that could help our side. I'm just speculating as we all are, but I wouldn't be all that sure it would be an 8 year term. And
if he's wise and chooses a good v.p. all the better for us.
I'm not quite there regarding voting for him,
doing a lot of praying (which is what all of us can do if we are willing) and thinking. And considering all of the points you all are posting.
One thing I do know, I WILL NOT vote for any
DemonRAT and especially a MARXIST. You know
with the internet, we have the power to spread
the word regarding the MSC for Obama, in fact
we have the power to tell our friends, family and neighbors.

inkling_revival
As usual, you definitely add to this thread with your comments.

Hat-tip to you.

Anne
Keep it up,Anne. Don't give in. I cannot understand why it is so hard for others to see the chance they are taking letting this pretender be elected.

They talk about Carter giving us Reagan.That was two decades ago and Republicans were real conservatives then.They are wishy-washy now and cannot be counted on to come back to the fold.

I would rather have McCain for four years and start a grass roots campaign after the election to either change the party or form another more conservative one. I don't even want to imagine it any other way.

But the main thing I worry about is, there is NO REAGAN on the horizon that I can see. If anyone has one in mind,please clue me in. i would like to feel as secure as the anti-McCainers do.

Rowly
We in no way feel secure about this.

As you stated the Republicans were conservatives back then...thats somewhat true, but for sake of argument, lets say it is.

So we WERE able to bounce back for sure then right?

Today we aren't so conservative, but think about our chances of bouncing back. For sake of argument, lets say 50%.

In 20 years from now, if Republicans continue, how conservative will we be? Will we be able to bounce back from a socialist at all? Possibly, but the chance will be lower than today.

The Republican party moves left every election and I will not stand for it. If we let this continue, the first democrat that is elected will ruin this country for good because there won't be any conservatives left. I am drawing my line in the sand here and now.

Anne
Yes - things are different than in 1993, but I'm not talking about the Congress make-up - I'm talking about issues that really get the "silent majority" to vocalize their dissent.

Leftists drop their "principles" the moment they become fearful of a voter backlash.

The other thing is that for Obama to truly enact a Marxist agenda, he'd need the implicit support of the military-industrial complex - which he couldn't get in a month of Sundays.

I remember a line spoken by Jack Nicholson playing the Joker in Batman:

"This town needs an enema".

He could be speaking of D.C.

And I wouldn't be too worried about voter turnout - I predict a huge turnout of those same people I mentioned in my prior post who will be voting AGAINST Obama. And many of those are red state Dems who own pick-ups and shotguns, but are Dems only because of union affiliations. They would have voted for Hillary - but not for Barack.

We'll see in due course if I'm correct - but if not - it won't be the first or last time, I'm sure!

Cheers.

Obama's 100 Days
If he wins, Obama will be able to claim that he has a mandate for change. The fact that he has not defined what that change is will enable him to claim that whatever he does is the change the people want.

Watch for an FDR style "100 days", using all his executive powers, and then some -- replacing US Attorneys with left leaning activists(Clinton established the precedent); a rush of new appointments to the Federal Courts to fill all the slots left open by the Democrats in the last two years; far left ideologues appointed to the second level positions in the Departments of Education, Environmental Protection, Defence, Health Education & Welfare, etc. Several high level opposition leaders will will be demonized per Saul Alinsky. -- “ Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”

Working with Nancy Pelosi's Congress, the "Fairness Doctrine" will quickly become law; "Hate Speech" legislation will be passed and used by the new US Attorneys to prosecute people who oppose illegal immigration or introduction of the gay agenda in schools.

Once the opposition (the "enemy", per Saul Alinsky) has been intimidated, then the next wave of grand programs will follow. Won't it be grand. See you in the Reeducation Camp!

Ethanol
Gosh, every time someone mentions ethanol I want to punch something. It produces negative energy, meaning it costs more energy to make it than it gives out. Its a big hoax that drives up our food prices while accomplishing nothing.

Scotch Indian
If half of that came true, we have a civil war on our hands in a matter of months. I am more optimistic than that, though, I do not think that you are crazy for thinking that. I have thought of possibilities like that myself.

CKHustler
Oh,I'm not trying to change minds. I had a hard time making my own mind up,but the more I see of Obama, I have changed mine. It is easy,now.

You forgot to tell me if you see another Reagan or anyone close to a Reagan. If I had one small hope that we could turn back the clock to a more conservative time,I would join you and others who think we can.

I believe with McCain,we stand a chance of keeping the status quo ,which is bad enough,now.

With Obama as president,a veto proof congress and two more liberal justices,we have no chance of ever making a comeback. That is my fear.

Besides,I also am afraid he is Muslim or a Muslim sympathizer.That is uppermost in my mind. Plus,we owe it to our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan to support them. I believe McCain will do that. Will Obama?

I still have high hopes that Hillary has a monkey wrench ready to throw. She hasn't thrown in the towel,yet. Her war machine is still operational. Who knows?


Reagan
Well, Jindal seems like a good guy.

Remember. Reagan wasn't just a conservative, he was a man that garnered the respect of the people. When he spoke people knew he meant what he said. Etc Etc. John Hawkins went over this a while back if you want to check out some others.

So while we need a conservative, we need a person that will bring in the people like Reagan did.

It will be tough to find a person that can do that, but no one knew Reagan was that man until after he was elected really. A person may come out of the woodwork yet.

sandrob,
since 90% of the population is paying little if any attention to the election and others may be worn out by the 18 months this process has been going on my guess is it will take until sept before people start focusing in on the issues.

By then b hussein and the dims will have made a myriad of promises they are unable and unwilling to keep but will still try to curry favor with the uninformed.

The only issue for the voters will be the economy. It seems that opec has only one plan of action and that is weekly increases in the cost of oil.

The dims have no plans to do anything about this except promise to give tax breaks to the poor at the expense of the rich. An unworkable solution but once that will register with those on the plantation of entitlement.

Out of curiosity what part of the state are you in. There seems to be quite a few Az posters at these threads. I am in phoenix

No argument with this point of view
From me

=========

sandrob Location: AZ
Reply # 53
Date: Jul 1, 2008 - 10:42 AM EST
Subject: Chris and Talent Scout
You guys are preaching to the Choir. I have not heard a single person that thinks much of McCain. But I don't believe in cutting off my nose to spite my face. When I think of McCain vrs Che Obama, I think of long lasting effects such as The Supreme Court. I also think of our Troops and our current situation in sandland. Che Obama can cause a lot more damage than the RINO McCain. In the mean time, we should start rebuilding our party. I've read great post by both of you and I respect your side of the argument, I just can't agree. I plan to hold my nose and vote for McCain. The very best I can expect is a lot of infighting and not much getting done over the next four years. Che Obama must not ever be our president!
=====
ts:
I have simply been overwhelmed with disgust for "intellectual" arguments.
And watch the two party system manipulate the masses away from the principles of Liberty.

The death of liberty is my only enemy, and the enemy of liberty has an all out attack.
Its coming from both parties.
One is quick death, the other is slow death.

I feel in my heart the words of Patrick Henry.
Liberty or Death.

That is an individual choice, and each can decide for himself.
For me, I will die before I allow either party to manipulate who I follow.
Neither man offers anything close to the vision of the Founders, and I hold them both in contempt to the very Foundations of America.

I can live at peace with all men, and not respond in anger, until any man tries to tell me how to think.
The line is drawn for me, to each his own, but I will not vote republican or democrat.
Not this election.
Real conservatives were driven out of the republican party, by this maverick.
I despise the man




talent scout
there is no doubt that mccain is less than a perfect candidate. But I would hope many would withhold final judgement until after the convention when he will hopefully chose a solid vp and outlined a platform we can live with as well as put forward his choices for the cabinet.

I think mccain is just a one termer to hold the fort until his successor can take the reins to lead us from the wilderness.

But even as weak as mccain might appear there is still the chance he will "man up" for the job. It is a certainty b hussein will take this country places it doesn't want to go.

Perhaps dealing with the devil you think you know is preferable to the devil we certainly do not know.

scary leftists
Conservatives were getting on board with the global warming thing before finding out that the solution would involve government restrictions. Now their line is that evidence doesn't matter and scientific consensus doesn't matter. Their standards of proof just keep getting higher and higher. But what are their standards of proof for the things they want to believe? Very low. They completely believe that abortion causes breast cancer even though only a slight correlation has been inconclusively shown. They get mad at people who are incredulous about intelligent design, even though intelligent design deliberately ignores those parts of the fossil record it can't incorporate (which is to say the majority of it). So, they are very selective in their rigor. Hypocrisy is human, of course, but conservatives are going gangbusters trying to get their hypocrisy enshrined as policy. Who needs 'em?

McCain is running ads here
On Colorado
One of them says:
McCain stood up against the President to support the global warming crowd of international marxists.(not in those words of course)
I will not vote for such a man

cactushead
The VP is an important issue for me. I believe it is possible for McCain to be a one termer, but unless he said so for some reason, Im not counting on it. If his VP is a solid conservative I will think about voting for him. That is the only possibility that could sway me. The fact that he is old, a VP is important. If he was as young as Obama, VP wouldn't matter to me and I wouldn't vote for him. But, if he picks a good VP, then that guy will have a solid chance at taking white house after McCain, which *could* turn us around.

MDoggg
Our anti-American poster is here. Welcome to the party

His name is Fred Thompson
"It will be tough to find a person that can do that, but no one knew Reagan was that man until after he was elected really. A person may come out of the woodwork yet."

During the primary, the media made sure most people thought he "didn't want it enough" and the RNC failed to back him sufficiently. Anyone who closely followed his too-brief campaign knows what was lost.

dahmit cactushead
That was, except for the exact wording, was what I was just about to post. We just can't take the chance that BarryBarrackHusseinObama gets the chance to screw up things any more than what we have now.

Those who want to Teach us all a Lesson
NOT standing up and be counted is everyones right as an American citizen.

NOT doing best for our Country and our children and if we have them, grandchildren is the right of every American citizen.

NOT remembering or repecting those men and women who have bled and died protecting this Country is the right of every American citizen.

NOT respecting the effort of our forefathers who chanced losing their lives and everything they owned to write our Constitution is the right of every American citizen.

Handing this Country over to those who want to destroy our economic system and healthcare system is the right of every American citizen.

I hope the satisfaction you feel when you see what happens to this Country is worth the lesson you gave all of us!!!!!!!!!!!

Not Voting or Not Voting for McCain IS A VOTE FOR OBAMA no matter how you rationalize it or how much your pride might be hurt.

Obama the Expedient Marxist
David's column is the unvarnished truth. All of major decisions in Obama's adult life appear to have been driven by two things: socialist ideology and expediency in willing it to power. Marriage, church, affiliations...everything has been a vehicle to his Marxist political ambitions. Obama and his fellow travelers plan a bloodless coup via: takeover of SCOTUS (may take a second term), veto-proof majorities in both houses, the Fairness Doctrine, and illegal immigration policy enccompassing open borders and quick paths to citizenship. Middle class America runs the risk of losing control of the nation for decades to come because they will lack the numbers to vote the socialists out of office.

Conservatives have to resist the temptation of wallowing in the kind of paralyzing depression that has pervaded conservatism for the last year. This is not the typical pres election cycle. Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Schumer and Durbin et al have a dark vision of where the country must be taken. We have to play the McCain hand we were dealt, soundly defeat Obama, and plan for a better future in 2012.

Wake up America or die in your sleep!!


Issues verses Feelings
The people who are supporting Obama have no idea what the issues facing this nation are,and this includes the liberal media.All the debate thus far concerning Obama sounds more like the shows The Apprentice,Survivor,or American idol.All we are hearing about are feelings,how Obama makes people feel when they hear him speak.What ever happened to the issues?? Can you name the five major issues Obama stands for? Has Obama been willing to discuss the issues he is pationate about,or rather have we been bogged down in hollywood type of rumor and gossip ??This is a serious election,do we really know what the issues are ??

prima volta
the serious mistake made by the left is that the right by questioning alldull's scam is that we are interested in trashing the environment.

Other than the fact alldull has become a billionaire foisting his scam and continues to use huge amounts of energy what else has he done but avoid debating his views.

Assuming alldull is correct why would he not debate those who offer a differing point of view. Obviously alldull is not sure enough of his scam to argue but only to hector.

But to the other point there is very little the average citizen can do other than limit their driving, adjust their thermostats, and recylce.

Exactly why would conservs champion anything that pollutes the air or destroys the water. We do not have a separate source of these two vital commodities and certainly believe the environment should be maintained.

Scotch Indian: BINGO! Well said!

Yes, things are DIFFERENT NOW!

There is NO comparison to any previous elections.

Geraldine Ferraro was right when she said that (Marxist) Obama would not be a candidate had he not been black. But MORE important, Marxist Obama would NOT be a candidate were he not backed by Soros and the Moveon henchmen.

"See you in the Reeducation Camp!"

Good point! The only question is, will it be a "Marxist Reeducation Camp" or a "Muslim Reeducation Camp?"

Both will be up for grabs.

altra volta


He/she says:

"Now their line [conservatives] is that evidence doesn't matter and scientific consensus doesn't matter."

Basta! These things really matter; if & when we see them. The "evidence" is faulty. Your consensus leaves out our dissident scientists' judgments. Finally; the "consensus" remedy is faulty; taxes and over-regulation. But only for this country.

"Their standards of proof just keep getting higher and higher."

Reply: Is there proof?

"They completely (redundant ?) believe that abortion causes breast cancer--"

It causes death after death after death to unborn babies. And the MOTHERS weren't suffering some deadly disease. Only pregnancy! We're not supposed to believe it?


They get mad at people who are incredulous about intelligent design," -- Reply:

You "get mad" at life in a free country. Would you have us live in a Gulag?



Talent Scout, I hear you...
that is why I try to avoid listening to him. Every time I do it weakens my resolve, painfully found resolve, to keep B Hussein Obama out of the White House.

To say that I am torn over this issue is putting it mildly.

JO
What are the issues facing this nation?

prima volta 2
in case you missed my last posting from the other day concerning the taxes we pay.

In addition to income taxes, we are also paying social security taxes, medicare, state and local income, gasoline, sales and various taxes on other activities.

Plus if you have any income that produces interest the govt also taxes that as well.

But the problem isn't necessarily the taxes we pay but the millions of ways the govt can find to waste money and then have the gall to demand more from the tax payer.

As you work for the state you recieve yoiur salary and benfits from the govt taxing the citizenry. At what point should the public expect some level of relieve from an unfair tax system

Scotch Indian Anne et al
I guess we will be taught a lesson by all those who are to prideful to do the best they can for this great Country.

I guess those who will not vote or vote for someone else other than McCain think the Liberals will learn a lesson by having Obama elected.

Liberals who want this Country destroyed are laughing at those who are helping them.

See you in the concentration camps if the Obamaites can disarm me.

NOT voting or NOT voting for McCain will teach us veterans and conservatives a lesson at the joy and delight of the Liberals who want to punish us as well.

Too Much Ignorance
Its oen thign to be afraid of something because you understand it. Its a different thing to be paranoid and ignorant at the same time. Sadly, the latter is the more common conervative posiiton.

Specifcally,

Scotch Indian fears Obama "replacing US Attorneys with left leaning activists(Clinton established the precedent);

In fact, ALL presidents replace US attorneys mostly with members of their own party. Bush did it as well. Clinton did not start this and to think so is simply being ignorant of the facts.

He also fears "a rush of new appointments to the Federal Courts to fill all the slots left open by the Democrats in the last two years." In fact there are no more and no fewer vacancies than one might expect at this point.

Cactushead chimes in with "It seems that opec has only one plan of action and that is weekly increases in the cost of oil." as if OPEC, rather than financial markets is behind the increasing cost of oil.



talent scout et al
you say you cant find one person out here who thinks much of mccain. well here is one... i love hime. i hope he runs again against presiedent obams 1n 2012. every nightbefore i lay me down to sleep
i get my balnky and say my prayers . i always make sure i remember to thank god for sending us mcain and thank the gop for nomiinating him. you have our undying respect for undertaking this mission to see to it that obama gets elected. best wished for a joyous four years.

Retired Geek says it all
We can put it a thousand different ways, but the bottom line is what it is.

Accuse us of "fear mongering", "scare tactics" or whatever else you want to call it - the FACTS are all before us and we'd better listen.

dreadnaught/volta
What evidence? Please bring some up. I have yet to see any real evidence of AGW yet. So what evidence are you speaking of?

Jack
Jack to the rescue to argue semantics!!!

Writing In Another Guy's Name?
This goes out to you folk who plan to write in another candidate's name, or refuse to hold your nose any longer to vote.

I understand your feelings, but please, let me humbly beg you not to throw away a vote because all that will do is bring Obama into office, and for how it looks so far, he will be our POTUS.

I didn't care for McCain either, he was never my ideal candidate....ever. But I do know a few things on the incredible differences how a blue state like Illinois is run, because I live in Obama Country vs. how a red state like Arizona is run because I have family that lives there, in McCain country. Do the research of the differences on cost of living, taxes, and crime, and you tell me can your country afford to become like Illinois? Google it if you don't believe me.

We're not chosing the difference between constipation and diarrhea here when we think of McCain and Obama. One candidate is indeed an absolute danger to our country and our way of life. This is basically the choice between constipation and rectal cancer. I do not want rectal cancer. If you don't know the difference, it's worse....

Yes, McCain has his faults, but Obama will be a murderer of our nation. You know this. I know you know this.

Please reconsider throwing away your vote by writing in another name. It won't help anyone.

All I ask is to please think about it, you've got till November to decide.


mrcmrc
i see we have more illiteracy from the minn dimwit. Don't worry when mccain is elected you can still stay on the dims plantation and get your handouts.

You are obviously too stupid to be anything more than either a minimum wage worker at mickey d's or another union troll over paid for doing little work.

Perhaps if you actually made an income that required paying taxes you would understand how unfair the current tax system is. But more than likely most of us who visit these threads pay more in taxes than you are capable of earning.

You remain a pathetic troll incapable of coherent thought and functionally illiterate in your posting skills

When I was Drafted
I did not agree with the reasons behind the war in Vietnam.

I did not agree with many of the policies of American politicians.

I did not agree that there was no civil rights for many American citizens.

But, I did MY duty as an American citizen as did many, many others.

Duty is before pride, duty is before intellectual decisions about politics - Duty is for God, Family and Country.

I will do my duty this election with all that I have - I will vote.

I will vote for someone who has a chance against Obama and his minions who want to destroy this Country.

I do not care what others think about me anymore than I cared about those WHO SPIT on my uniform while I was returning home from doing my duty for my Country.

Damn the torpedoes - full steam ahead!

Retired Geek writes:
Not Voting or Not Voting for McCain IS A VOTE FOR OBAMA no matter how you rationalize it or how much your pride might be hurt.
---
ts:

This is the sort of statements that do nothing but turn me off.

Pride? Hurt?
Silly accusation.

I actually have principles I believe in that are worth dying for.
And if I do have pride, it is the Pride of Honor for American Values as I have learned from childhood till now, and still holding on to learn more.

If everyone would stop reading between the lines, and listen to what is actually said, then we can communicate with one another much better.
Let me say and speak for myself as to why I will not vote for McCain.

I have no reason to shield any true motove, and say exactly why I will not and do it boldly, and have no fear or pride that is hurt.
I have simply drawn a line in the sand and will not go over it.

Now I recommend we all learn to respect the fact that you speak for yourself in what integrity you possess, and leave me the same grace to have the identical ability and right to do.
I will NOT vote for John McCain, period.
He is my enemy as much as BO, the communist is.

Neither man has leadership qualities this nation deserves.
I will not be motivated by fear of any man or any warning of the dangers to come.
Let the chips fall, I will retain my own beliefs, and willing to die for them too.




cactushead
don't worry about responding to him...he brags about his responses, meaning he adds nothing and just says idiotic things to get responses...just ignore.

CKHustler
pointing out ignorance is not the same as arguing semantics. The level of paranoia exhibited here would be a good comedy skit, but you guys are (snort) serious.




ckhustler
the only globull warming crisis is alldull's bank account and the amounts he wants the UN to tax the world hasn't reached their max yet,

Mddogg...
Sniff, Sniff.......you STINK!

Shells
One reason I would rather not vote for McCain is people have a reasoning that we can get a conservative movement with McCain in there and come back in 4 years. I don't see this happening.

A grass roots movement would have to start here and now. I don't see the slightest bit of interest in doing that though. If it doesn't start at a conservative blog, where will it start? We are a bunch of conservative people who care, there is no other place possible. We have to take initiative and I see none of that happening. The only way to get people to get out there and help is to have someone like Obama force us to. Otherwise conservatives will become dormant for a while longer.

electing obama
Obama will be elected because he is attracting a lot of republicans who are appalled with the Bush fiascos.

Jack
you are arguing semantics either way you look at it. Talking about a small point of Clinton not the only one to put activist judges. Yet he did do that. Can you argue? Its semantics and you look like an idiot arguing down to such a small scale.

David Limbaugh
Obama's Leftist Armies will be fought by me and resisted by me even if it costs me my life.

I have never run from the enemies of this Country and I will not do it now.

I have the intellect to know the weakness of John McCain and can probably demonstrate that in words as well as anyone who posts here at TH.

I will NOT run from the enemy physically or intellectually - the colors of the American Flag - DO NOT RUN!

Cactushead
I know. I mean, it's true I'm ignorant about the exact dollar amount I pay in taxes, but I know that, for example, my Subaru Outback is considered a "luxury" car and as such I had to pay a "luxury" tax on it which was something exorbitant. There's a lot of little stupid stuff like that. I pay tax on the parking space where I park this car I rarely use. I'm getting nickel and dimed to death like everyone else, basically. But that does not mean I am opposed to the concept of taxes, and I will never ever be a conservative. I only wish that I could see more evidence of public money being used in the best interest of the public. I know conservatives hate being lectured on how wonderful life is in European countries, so I'll spare you. But still it strikes me that now we have this strange compromise situation where people are taxed rather heavily and yet we have a capitalist ethic that tells people they don't have the right to expect anything from the government, so we don't force our officials to be accountable when they tell us our money is paying for X, and then X never materializes, or materializes in a useless way. This paradox could be partially responsible for the black hole of public money which everyone in the US can acknowledge.

CKHustler: If you're waiting for

dreadnaught/volta to provide evidence
of AGW, you'd better put a "time limit" on it and pack a lunch 'cause otherwise it's gonna be a long, long, long wait.

:-)

Retired Geek
Why would opposing Barack Obama cost you your life? No one is going to put a gun to your head and force you to vote for him. Just don't vote for him.

Prima Volta
Do you know you basically described the main reason conservatives can't stand liberals?

No government accountability.

We say we shouldn't expect anything for a couple reasons. The things they are expecting are unconstitutional for our government to perform and yet they try (wasting our money while doing it). Secondly we shouldn't be taxed for things that are unconstitutional, because they shouldn't be doing them!

There are very few things our government is supposed to do and they are overstepping their boundaries so much that if our founding fathers were alive, we might have another revolution on our hands.

Anne
Oh I know, I expect nothing from those two.

Isn't it obvious? This debate is settled. There is no AGW haha. Unless evidence can be provided, I see no reason to state otherwise.

CKHustler
Sorry, you can't escape the reality. Far too many conservative posts here are simply wrong on the facts. Being wrong is no great sin, but being wrong over and over again when the information is readily available is just ignorance.

For example, the issue at hand was not Clinton appointing judges, it was the appointment of US attorneys. How could you get that wrong? The question was whether Clinton initiated the process of replacing US attorneys with member so his own party. Anybody with any knowledge of the situation would know this is not truejust as anyoen with any knowledge of oil markets woudl know that curretn oil prices are not set by OPEC.

You think having a comand of the facts is a semantic issue. It's not: its a pre-requisite for having any credibility, which you do not.




The groanings of the universe
Is roaring in my ears.
The evil of mankind is noise, irritating noise, with millions of voices, screaming, yelling, moaning and crying.

Drowning out the roar, I hear a Voice of Peace.

Conviction of heart and mind to hold to the values that work, and proven to work.

If everyone in America leaves the Foundations this nation was established in, do those Foundations change with them?

They do not change
And I am going to stay with the unchanging values this Nation is Founded in, they are eternal values, unaffected by popular vote.

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

I dissolve my political connection to the republican party, as being socialism lite.

chicaree...
Yes, and you will see just how great it will be when we live under a Marxist. Even McCain is better than living under the rule of a Marxist. You as many others are really not aware of what Obama wants to put into effect once elected. If this puppet of George Soros and the other America hating nuts gets in office, you can then weep.

Jack
Seriously..semantics in your case.

"knowledge of oil markets woudl know that curretn oil prices are not set by OPEC."

How about production? Does that have an effect? You know they can force the price up. So to say otherwise is a lie as well. No credibility on your part eh?

US ATTORNEYS...either way can you argue he did that, because that was a very large basis of the argument, larger than the fact that Clinton started it. Please argue that.

Semantics and yes you look like an idiot doing it...perhaps we should argue whether Clinton had a red tie on while doing it?

How about you stop and think for a moment.

OPEC...do they use speculation to their advantage? Do you think they could cause high speculation? How so? If not, why not?

You clearly think on a surface level Jack

Sophie
Starts off name calling, but beware! She is a victim!!!

Another little Marxist Obama tid-bit....
"Obama site urges: 'Revolution' against U.S. 'oppressive' regime"

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=68462

"Marxists, socialists, communists form group to plot on official campaign blog"
By Aaron Klein

"JERUSALEM – Marxists, socialists and communists have created a safe space online to congregate, exchange ideas – including a stated revolution against the U.S. "oppressive" regime – and support their favored presidential candidate.

"Their meeting spot? Sen. Barack Obama's official campaign website, which allows registered users to form groups and post content in online "community" blogs.

"One popular community group on the Illinois senator's official MyObama website calls itself "Marxists/Socialists/Communists for Obama."


Okay, let's start from the top again... Is Obama a Marxist???

TS
you missed the next portion, which may need to happen down the road.

"that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness"

Conditioning the minds
To accept the will of a tyrant is what politics are all about.

Politics has as much to do with Statemenship as truth does to a lie.

Since the 60's the real powers in America, have slowly gained ownership of both parties, both democrats and republicans.
And they are used to divide the nation, not unite us.
The public has been trained to choose between one or the other, like a man trains an animal.

Using political arguments to divide the nation away from the Founding Principles.

"Divide and Conquer" works, and the power merchants know it, and use it.

Erase any clear lines by a slow incorporation of small changes, and the people will allow it, and suffer it.

Use one party to propose outlandish attacks on established law and order and principles, and the other party for bending slightly with just a dribble.
Use this method over and over again until the arguments are both with-in the agenda of the men in power.
And you end up with a John McCain and an Barack Obama to choose from.

You still have a right to vote, but your choise is limited to one or the other.
ha ha, I take the third choice and will not be manipulated by politics.

I will hold to the principles that made America, and the republicans and democrats have forsaken.

And the people like trained puppies follow along.
You do not have to vote one or the other, and I will not.
I have joined the Constitution Party and will live or die with them.

Sophie
Is a victim!!! No talking back to her! She might cry.

Worth repeating, word limitation did it

For that, we need a return to the morality they had, and turn from the immorality of today.
---

CKHustler - 1:49 PM EST
Subject: TS
you missed the next portion, which may need to happen down the road.

"that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness"



"laying its foundation on such principles"

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men

prima volta
this years fed budget was $3.2 trillion dollars. Since johnson implimented his great society some $44 trillion has been spent to fight the war on poverty.

It is not a matter the govt doesn't get enough taxes it's that they can keep wasting money on special interest projects. Two of these biggest pork thieves are jack murtha and jerry lewis, one a dim the other a repub. Murtha has cahnneled close to 1 billion in pork to a company that is duplicating services already performed by washington.

At what point does any govt program ever come to an end. Since govt programs are jobs for civil servants there is no incentive to ever solve a problem but become an even bigger failure in order to secure a larger budget.

The public is expected to live within their budget but the feds and the states with their power to tax have no idea of living within a budget or insuring that the tax dollars are used in efficient and cost saving means.

The issue is not that were are not paying the right amount of taxes but the govt and their never ending waste. The simple idea that congress thinks they have to right to take oversea fact finding trips and take their spouses is another example of waste. Exactly why does govt think they can vacation on our dime.

Why are we paying for congress men to lease cars and have millions to staff offices in washinton and in their elective districts. Why does rangel think the tax payers should be footing the bill so he can erect a $2 million dollar monument to himself in harlem.

The issue remains congress and the amoiunt of taxes they waste.

Hustler
Pay attention.

OPEC officials are on record as saying they think the price of oil is too high and is not supported by current the supply and demand equation. Saudi Arabia recently increased its production in an effort to lower prices. No effect. OPEC does not SET oil prices, at least not the oil prices you are paying right now. You also argue that because OPEC can control supply, they effectively control oil prices. Interesting except for the fact that OPEC has not decreased supply and prices have skyrocketed.

You want me to argue that Clinton started the practice of newly elected presidents replacing US attorneys? Seriously, I can't really make sense out of your sentence. The process actually stretches back, at least to Reagan. http://articles.latimes.com/2007/mar/23/nation/na-talking2 3. I would argue it goes back farther than that. Clinton did not initiate that practice.

Cactushead
Pennywise and pound foolish.

By far the biggest expenses in the federal government are entitlements and defense, which amount to 87% of all spending. And that doesn't include the 160 billion off budget money just appropriated for military use.

Cutting the kind of spending you whine about will not have any meaningful impact on our budget problems.

And all of the individual waste you cite is peanuts compared to this fact. The US militray budget is great than the military expenditures of every other nation in the world combined. We spend more on the military than the rest of the world combined, and conservatives still run around in a perpetual state of fear.





CKHustler
In one of my posts to you,I said we could start a grassroots effort after the election. I did not say four years from now. re;your post to shells.

My point was,these nominees are settled for this election. Too late to do anything about it. It is not too late to start for the next one.It will be easier to start with a Republican in office. Even a RINO.

Jack
I noticed you ignored them using speculation...figures.

They are on record...great for them. does that cover them then? If Obama is on record saying he will make everyone millionaires, does that make him believe it? Use your head Jack

Argue that Clinton didn't do it. Again semantics. Whether he started it or not doesn't matter. So why are you arguing it?

Rowly
My point is how...How is it easier with McCain in there. I see no interest here really. I have talked to some on this issue, but none actually want to act. I didn't say to start it in 4 years. It would have to start now. After the election people will want to stop thinking about politics. It will be very hard to get a movement going then. Now is the time, yet no one has any interest.

jack,
I am aware that the pork thievery is imiscule in the scheme of things but cite the examples as a way of stating congress thinks the treasury is their private piggy bank.

The notion of the so called entitlements remains obscene and there is no doubt there is no govt program that is not wasting money.

The whole issue remains congresses refusal to live within their budget. The cost of the military is somewhat different these days. We are at the early stages of a war against an enemy we are funding through high oil prices to wage war against us.

As the arrests in saudia arabia this morning showed, we are fighting against an enemy that understands they can export terrorism with minimal dollars and a handful of terorists. The question remains how to protect our country.

Entitlements
War on poverty is part of that 87% Jack

I think my comment got deleted
And I think it's because it contained the word "-ss." As in "half--ss." On Townhall you can advocate murdering liberals, but you can't say -ss, because that's profanity.

It's amazing...
When you read through these posts to see the outcome of a debate. So much negativity and bickering. Maybe, just maybe, THAT is the reason America finds itself in this predicament. It seems the only rationale is simply to win... at any cost. Pity that, for a people of intelligence should work together to find the best solution, and we are that people. However, we'd rather sell you the solution for a profit.

Obama is bad news. We can all agree on that. If you're not scared of him, you haven't done your homework- plain & simple. Radical change cannot be condoned except in instances of depravity or abuse or some other catastrophic type circumstance. You don't buy a new car because the tires go flat. You would buy one if the car were beyond repair. I don't think America is beyond repair yet, so we're not ready for the type of government BHO would bring.

As for McCain... left of center? He're a man who voted his morals, voted his ideals, and attempted to represent his constituents as best he could. Apparently, he found favor with them in election afer election. Isn't that what he was supposed to do? Or was he supposed to follow the "party agenda" the whole time. I admire him for his backbone. He stands on what he believes, even when he has to face the current in doing so. Don't agree? Well, just go pick up you "How to be a good republican" handbook, and start following it to a tee. See where being a mindless panderer to ANY pary gets you.

Only Sophie luvs Sophie
Can't you just go away, go play with all the other Huffies & movers? We all know that you are just to smart & sharp for us THr's. Did I mention a bit of a narcissist¿

Amazing 2
And to say we're leaving our ideals by voting McCain... who came up with this? We're trying to push for the best candidate to represent the people of the US. I wish life were so certain that we could just set all the rules and then move on to something else... forgetting forever the need to change. Wake up people, we are well past that. There is a need to change on many areas, and "staying the course" will only promulgate our pain. We should be open to embracing SOLUTIONS to the problems we face. Many can be found by reverting back to center (I do agree on this), but many must be found by exploring new avenues as well. "Left of center". Do your history... tell me what remained stagnant in the last century?

And who said that your vote is wasted by voting for a 3rd party? Do you see how much pandering is done to small interest groups? The NRA, with 4 million members, gets significant attention. So what if 10 million voters went 3rd party... do you think that maybe someone would pay attention and worry about a sharp increase in dissenters that threatens their own party? I think it would send a very loud message.

CK
Discerning what you are talking about can be pretty hard. you write: "I noticed you ignored them using speculation." I assume "they" is OPEC? Maybe the Saudis?

They don't USE speculation. Prices are set by the market and the oil market is driven by low margin speculators. OPEC has tried to maintain stable oil prices for many years.

You also write: "Whether he started it or not doesn't matter" regarding Clinton replacing US Attorneys. Well, it mattered enough for you to say that he did begin the practice. Another way of looking at that is this. It mattered to you when the idea affirmed your personal prejudices. But when it turns out to contradict your personal prejudices, it stopped mattering.

This is because people like you much prefer affirmation over information. Unfortunately, this makes you easy to distract. Someone can point out a 2 million dollar expenditure you don't like and your eyes roll back in your heads with rage. But when the government simply loses $9 billion in cash, as they did in Iraq, you don't even notice.


CKHustler.
I understand. I won't just help hand the government over to a Marxist,socialist wannabe.

I could not live with myself. Our vote is our own and so far it is the one thing we can do to help keep this country free.

I can see a time when we may not have that right. I intend to us my vote for the best person in the fight. Warts and all,I think that is McCain.

Have a good evening.

Vote for Obama
If you intend to overthrow the American Government, that is.

"Obama's Leftist Armies" is...
... the title of this column.

And from reading through this thread, it would appear that a brigade of Obama's armies decided to do battle here.

I'm all for free speech, but our leftist/liberal friends who are so concerned with the "liberties" they think they've lost under Pres. Bush would impress me a lot more with their arguments if they petitioned their buddies at Kos and HuffPost to be as "open minded" to conservative argument as the moderators at Townhall are with theirs.

It is getting so I can't even recognize Townhall as a "conservative" site anymore.

Primus54: that's pretty funny..
you said:

"It is getting so I can't even recognize Townhall as a "conservative" site anymore."

oh, TH is most definitely still a conservative site. just look at the titles of 98% of the
articles condemning EVERYTHING left/liberal/democrat for cying out loud. lol

I suspect the reason so many libs/dems/leftist come in to this "conservative" site is because
incredibly boring to debate with people that agree with you.

Vote for Obama
If you intend to overthrow the American Government, that is.

VACATIONS CANCELED
******** DRILL - DRILL - DRILL ********

********** WIN - WIN - WIN **********

All these pollsters are out there doing quantitative analysis over issues and nuances of little true value and interest.

Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn are Inheritance Babies each individually worth millions mostly in tax free bonds set up in closed trusts with distant executors commissioned to protect the capital regardless of inflation or extraneous factors. The price of gasoline means nothing to these Huffington Types other than there are fewer people on the road and less traffic snarls moving around Chicago.

The real Poll should be how many families are being forced to change their vacation plans or habits because of the high price of fuel; ergo that trip to Disney World - cancelled, that vacation in Yosemite or the Poconos - canceled, that tour of New England Seaports or Civil-Revolutionary War Battle sites - canceled.

Funny...
How everyone starts freaking out when someone questions the qualifications of Obama.

This may be a cult, but since Obama is getting all evangelical, maybe not...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/politics/02campaigncnd .html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Anyway, I'll just sit back and watch liberals screech and whine about any criticism of their precious little Obama....

Left Angle
Yeah - the "titles" might be conservative red meat - but these threads have an infestation that is getting worse.

And as is plainly obvious - we conservatives don't need liberals to have good debates within our ranks, as the McCain subject never fails to show.

Don't you and your lib buddies find it kind of ironic that you have to come here for some fun?

I thought being a liberal was all about free speech and diversity of opinion.

You'd never know it at your blogs and websites.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
You guys don't really believe he's gonna get elected do you??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Wait, wait...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

yeah I can picture it now, his hand on the bible and then meeting the pope to discuss how he can be a better christian...this is gonna be great....

Mark
"But don't expect me to take any of this Marxist commie we are all going to die crap seriously."

I don't either, but it's moot because the only way he's going to the inauguration is if he buys tickets...

This IS gonna be great!!
"But, hey, he's gotta do what he's gotta do to get elected."

So now he's a liar too!! Well once he gets baptised he'll have to repent or say some Hail Marys.

Once he's a good christian he won't have a problem with that though.

Hey Sophie....
Smile...

God loves EVEN you...and ModMark


Have a blessed day

Hey
Maybe once McCain is in office he can appoint Obama as head of the super religious committee or something.

The Christ-Czar even. I'm sure Obama would love that, seeing as how he'll be all baptised and repentant and all. he could even start a rapture club since he's gone evangelical and everything.

Good for him!!!

This is one good reason...
B. Hussein Obama should not be elected. I went to this page on Obama's Campaign Website.

my.barackobama.com/page/community/group/MarxistsSocialistsCommunistsforObama

Marxists/Socialists/Communists for Obama
This group is for self-proclaimed Marxists/Communists/Socialists for the election of Barack Obama to the Presidency. By no means is he a true Marxist, but under Karl Marx's writings we are to support the party with the best interests of the mobilization of the proletariat.

DAVID LIMBAUGH
I have noticed that the libs squeal the loudest then a column hits a nerve. Great article!!!

"To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The MARXIST professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets." (pages 99-100) BO, 'Dreams of My Father'

Unite us, Barackheart. Unite the clans!

Jack
Tell me where I, as in me so you don't get confused, said Clinton started the whole US Attorney bit. Please, go ahead and find my quote as I didn't bring it up. I was just pointing out how stupid you look trying to argue semantics.

Farmer's Wife
Don't worry, Obama isn't going to be president. It was a nice novelty but when it comes right down to it, he doesn't have a shot.

Unless of course he completes that degree at the seminary. Once he becomes ordained, anything is possible.

He may wind up gathering his flock of followers and creating his own version of Jonestown...Obamaville or something...and then he can spread the word of the Lord at will.

Max Power
I agree. Obama is unelectable. I see a very slim chance of him even getting close. He will carry very very democratic states, but any swing states will go Republican. Just look at how Hillary cleaned the floor with him in those states at the end, when people had an idea of who he was.

Jack
Re your Clinton post.

You're right Clinton didn't replace the US attorneys with his own party, just fired the ones investigating him and his friends and supporters, he didn't care who replaced them.

Funny how you omit that little detail of the ongoing investigations eh stopped with his mass firing.

And you are right, he was more clever, he sacked all of them, not just the ones investigating him. Doesn't make it right, but makes it easier for the Democrats to defend.


Afternoon Max!
I certainly HOPE that is the case because Obama's CHANGE is not for me!

Want $10 a Gallon Gas
Keep electing Democrats!

ANWR Exploration
House Republicans:91%Supported
House Democrats: 86% Opposed

Coal-to-Liquid
House Republicans: 97% Supported
House Democrats: 78% Opposed

Oil Shale Exploration
House Republicans: 90% Supported
House Democrats: 86% Opposed

Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) Exploration
House Republicans: 81% Supported
House Democrats: 83% Opposed

Refinery Increased Capacity
House Republicans: 97% Supported
House Democrats: 96% Opposed


Onward Christian Obama!!
Oh he will care Mark!

His faith in the Lord Jesus Christ will sustain him through his grief at losing the election.


Obama and Supply and Demand
Questioner: Explain the 'Law of Supply and Demand'?

Obama answer: I have a lot of cash and I am demanding more.

Questioner: The Law of Supply and Demand says that that the price of a good reaches equilibrium when the demand for the good matches the supply. If there is more demand than supply, the price goes up. If supply exceeds demand, the price goes down.

Obama answer: That is NOT the supply and demand I remember!

I will increase taxes on oil and not allow any new sources by drilling or Nuclear Power.

This is 'Change you can Believe In' to bring down the price of gas.

Democrats and scarcity

If the Democrats were put in charge of the Sahara desert - there would be a shortage of sand within 5 years.

Democrats would then declare sand as an endangered vital natural 'resource' and demand that the sand be returned to its natural habitat - spending trillions replacing it.

The Democrats would issue 'sand subsidies' to all Democratic officials and 'sand welfare stamps' to all Democrat voters.

The Democrats exhibiting the same assertive, self-involved shallowness of liberals would declare 'We saved sand' while conservatives just stood by and ignored the crisis.

Democrats and Obama want to 'drill babies heads' for convenience and cause inconveniences by not 'drilling' for oil.


CK Hustler
Your specific quote was :

"US ATTORNEYS...either way can you argue he did that, because that was a very large basis of the argument, larger than the fact that Clinton started it. Please argue that."

"larger than the FACT that Clinton started it."

emphasis added.

Home Heat this Winter 800-1200 a month
Obama and Democrats say no drilling - adjust your thermostats - wear an overcoat in your house. Ride a bike with snowtires and chains to work.
------------------------------------------------
- 2 Trillion barrels of oil are estimated in the United States Oil-Shale Reserves (USGS)
- 400 Billion barrels of oil are estimated under the Arctic Ocean
- 175 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in the Oil Sands of Alberta, Canada (AGS)
- 86 Billion barrels of oil are estimated on the Outer Continental Shelf of the United States (MMS)
- 32 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in ANWR, NPRA and the Central North Slope in Alaska (USGS)
- 31.4 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in the East Greenland Rift Basins Province (USGS)
- 15 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in Jack field in the Gulf of Mexico
- 7.3 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in the West Greenland–East Canada Province (USGS)
- 4.3 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in the Bakken shale formation in North Dakota and Montana, United States (USGS)
- 214 Million barrels of oil are estimated in the Illinois Basin, United States (USGS)

Andrews
Having a hard time with the comprehension thing?

Of course Clinton got rid of all the Republican holdovers. I never said he didn't. I said he wasn't the first to do so, and he won't be the last. It's a natural and normal process.

Regardless, if you have any actual information that Clinton fired anyone who was investigating him or any of his cronies, out with it. Seeing as teh whole discussion is about basing opinions on accurate information, I'd like to see what you have to say.

OBAMA-CRATS: Question Time
SOPHIE DEAR - Here we go again, now "DON'T BOGART THE JOINT!" Sometime between 35-40 it is time to grow up and leave the marijuana in the baggie.
"Iraq" is not a redeemable quality - you know this.

OBAMA-CRATS: What are you pretending not to know???

Name one - just 1 - redeeming quality relative to Barack "Barry" Hussain bin O'Boomerang (nee: Obama)???

Hey Nobody Loves Sophie
Hi sweetie. Boy, you must be a glutton for punishment. When you go to sleep at night, do you have thoughts of Barrack Obama? Come on honey buns, your among friends here (like Left Angle). Tell us the truth. Do you kiss your pillow pretending it's you know who? Well I for one hope you sleep well tonight. I will say a prayer just for you and you know who. Of course, you understand that he will never be president, right? Fortunately, most liberals are kind of centrist. Not at all like you. They are ready to jump ship because of gas prices. Now Obama will wait until he sees he is going to loose before he gives in to more drilling, but alas, it will be too late. Will you just drop him then and start hunting for another Che type that will light your fire. I don't know but I think Left Angle might have a thing for you.
Sweetie, I have to go and burn trash in my trash barrels. I can't see any reason to pay for trash pick up. I love to to watch the smoke and C02 float lazily into the blue Arizona Sky.
LOL you silly little twit.

Obama wants Gas to go up Gradually
“I think that I would have preferred a gradual adjustment. The fact that this is such a shock to American pocketbooks is not a good thing.”
Barack Obama
------------------------------------------------
The utopian liberals think that if gas prices get high enough, everyone will move back to the cities where they are in control, the unions run all the public transit and utilities, and they get to tell us how we get to work and where we live.

It’s a dream come true!

Empty out the red states and the suburbs that vote Republican!

Democrats can now raise school taxes to compensate for the oil prices and throw in a little something for themselves.

Democrats say don't drill in America.
- 2 Trillion barrels of oil are estimated in the United States Oil-Shale Reserves (USGS)
- 260 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in Saudi Arabia (EIA)
- 80 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in Venezuela (EIA)

Just For YOU ModMark & Sophie
Here's a new one based on Three Dog Night's Road to Shambala.

Watch a day of troubles, Watch the way of pain
With that Saint Oh-bah-ma
Watch a day of sorrow, Just embrace the name
It's a shame, Oh-bah-ma.

(Chorus)
Ah Ooooh, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah (X2)

Everyone is Hopeful, everyone is Blind
On the Road with Obama
Everything is not ducky, Socialism we'll find
On that road with Obama.

(Repeat Chorus)

Why should we make time for the likes of Obama? (X2)

I will tell you sister he has power in his eyes
Hear the Lies from Obama
I will tell you brother he's a devil in disguise
Don't you vote for Obama

(Repeat Chorus)

Why should we be blind to the likes of Obama? (2xs)

(repeat chorus and reprise and fade)


Democrats fight Oil Supply
Associated Press

"The Senate Appropriations Committee today narrowly defeated Sen. Wayne Allard’s attempt to end a moratorium related to oil shale development in Colorado. It was a big day for Colorado energy issues on Capitol Hill as Gov. Bill Ritter testified before a senate committee asking lawmakers to move cautiously on oil-shale development until more is known about the environmental impact and other issues.

Meanwhile downstairs, the appropriations committee was considering a massive Emergency Supplemental Spending Bill. Allard, a member of the committee, attempted to insert an amendment that would reverse the moratorium that lawmakers approved late last year.

The moratorium prevents the Department of Interior from issuing regulations so that oil companies can move forward on oil-shale projects in Colorado and Utah. Allard said the moratorium has left uncertainties at a time when companies need to move forward and in the long term make the United States more energy independent.

“If we are really serious about reducing pain at the pump, this is a vote that would make a difference in people’s lives,” Allard argued. But in a 14-15 vote, the committee spilt strictly on party lines and rejected the amendment."

One of the key votes was from Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., who said Sen. Ken Salazar had urged her to reject the amendment even though she personally thinks the moratorium on oil-shale development is unjust. Landrieu vowed to try to lift the moratorium when the large appropriations bill reaches the floor of the U.S. Senate in coming weeks.

Democrats on drilling in ANWR
To prevent consideration of drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in a fast-track budget reconciliation bill.
March 19, 2003, 03:10 PM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dayton (D-MN)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Graham (D-FL)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hollings (D-SC)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCain (R-AZ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wyden (D-OR

Jack
Again with the semantics...do you want me to bring up the argument where it started? Man you are daft.


Scotch Indian Location: CA
Reply # 132
Date: Jul 1, 2008 - 11:49 AM EST
Subject: Obama's 100 Days
Watch for an FDR style "100 days", using all his executive powers, and then some -- replacing US Attorneys with left leaning activists(Clinton established the precedent); a rush of new appointments to the Federal Courts to fill all the slots left open by the Democrats in the last two years; far left ideologues appointed to the second level positions in the Departments of Education, Environmental Protection, Defence, Health Education & Welfare, etc. Several high level opposition leaders will will be demonized per Saul Alinsky. -- “ Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”

How stupid are you? I was just pointing out how stupid you look arguing about semantics and you bring out more. My god. get a life

Voted Against Drilling in ANWR 2005
Democrats keepimg Gas and home heating high.
Notice Obama voting against drilling.
------------------------------------------------
109th Congress
March 16, 2005, 01:45 PM
To strike section 201(a)(4) relative to the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
--------------
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wyden (D-OR)



Jack
Notice the parenthesis around your argument. Are you really that incensed? Arguing with you is like finding a bug in a computer program. The whole thing is right except a semi-colon and the whole thing is wrong according to you.

sandrob
Its no use responding to Sophie. She is obsessed with gotcha politics. If she actually came to discuss I might consider responding, but you are just wasting your time rob.

Sophie
I appplaud your light touch. I get too serious because I find ignorance so distressing. I shouldn't really care that the likes of Andrew are just wrong on teh facts, but I do. I suppose its because they are all so suggestible, so easily misled.

Retired Gook
Notice in your list is FORMER Senator Mike DeWine of Ohio? The other Rs that voted to kill this are from liberal-land.

And Coleman is in trouble, too.

George Voinovich, another RINO will be next, hopefully defeated in a primary.

Remember him crying over the appointment of Bolton?

That did it for me.

OBAMA-CRAT SNOBS
TO Retired Geek

Don't forget Andrianna Huffington as she condemns SUV owners while she tools around Manhattan in the back seat of her stretch limousine.

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE GAS - GET OFF OUR ROADS!"

ObamaCrat Snobs All of Them!

CK
You write: "Notice the parenthesis around your argument. Are you really that incensed?"

There are no parentheses around my argument. The argument you posted is not mine.

Am I incensed? Dude, the conservative mindset couldn't exist were it not for faulty information. If expecting people to respect the truth, differentiate between fact and fantasy, and ground their opinions in reality means I am incensed, I guess so.

Sophie
You crack me up.

Red Nancy Pelosi put the old "no earmarks for you" kaibash on the Blue Dogs as soon as January 1, 2007 rolled around.

As noted in one of your earlier comments, Democrats will do or say anything to win - even pretend to have conservative principles.

BTW, I thought you were leaving.

Congratulations, Sophie. Many of us have noticed that you have become the female version of "Robert", except you don't pretend to support McCain.

Wow... what a distinction!

Democrats and Obama want high oil Prices
Why do Democrats and Obama want high oil Prices?

Higher costs for gas to go to work.

Higher costs for heating your home.

Higher costs for groceries because of transportation costs.

Higher costs for garbage collection because of gas and diesel costs.

Higher school taxes because of gas prices to transport students and to heat schools.

Higher costs to heat government buildings.

Every penny gas goes up a gallon costs the USPS $8 million a day to deliver mail.

Why do Democrats and Obama want high oil Prices?

Why do Democrats and Obama block every attempt for any relief from high oil prices?

Why do Democrats and Obama say relief is 10 years away?

Why do Democrats and Obama not want nuclear power plants to hold electricity costs down?

Why do Democrats and Obama say they will raise taxes on oil companies like Exxon/Mobile who supplies 2% of the worlds gas and diesiel supplies?

Vote Democrat and ensure higher prices.

I'm leftist & I approve of this message
Limbaugh certainly has a knack for attracting TH posters.

The problem for Limbaugh and conservatives in general is that I am a leftist, I vote leftist and I live leftist and I am an American along with tens of millions of American leftists.

I am also part of the group that is the most financially successful in America, i.e., we leftists, to the chagrin of the rightists.

Americans are turning left and conservatives will just have to get over it or leave America and go live in a more authoritarian country in which they will be happier.


Democrats and Obama hurt poor people
Democrats and Obama hurt poor people the most by keeping high oil prices.

Democrats and Obama hurt poor people most by increasing costs for them to go to work.

Have the Democrats and Obama throwing poor people under the bus?

OBAMA MONEY-CRATS
CORPORATE SUPPORT: Obama "Barry" Hussain bin O'BoomBox (nee: Obama) as a head has no idea about the finance industry but to get to t